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ezziefae · 9 months ago

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My thoughts on The Prisoner's Throne.

(spoilers ahead, and talk about Holly Black's planned book)

ps: I finished this book in one sitting on release day and needed days to process everything, that's why this is a late post. Enjoy!!!!

Heather and Vivi

Where were Heather and Vivi? They were present in the prologue but then they vanished. I was excited to see Vivi become friends with Wren, especially after the rude comments she made towards Wren in TQON. I wonder why Holly excluded them from everything after the prologue, such as the family drama scene at the feast. However, I appreciated how they were mentioned in the story, particularly when we learned that Oak and Heather's mom are close, and that Oak would sleep at their house.

Oak abdicating as heir

So yeah, Jude and Cardan have given Oak permission to resign from the throne as heir, and obviously Oak is taking that opportunity to do just that, just not yet….he has to stay heir for months since Jude and Cardan are going away together. I always knew Jude and Cardan were going to stay as High King and Queen of Elfhame, but only because Oak married Wren and therefore became King of the Ice Needle Citadel, but that didn't happen…Jude is letting him step down because she knows he's grown, and wants him to make his own choices, which is great. If Oak resigns, Jude and Cardan will need to have a child to maintain the royal lineage. So, it's VERY possible that we may see a Jurdan baby in the future.

political problem (Holly Black's next faerie book)

So finally we know what the next book will be about. We know that Jude and Cardan have plans to go to the Undersea. That was the plan Holly Black has been teasing at us for a long time now. This means we’re getting another Elfhame book (Holly didn't say an "Undersea book", she said "Elfhame" even though it's going to be set in the Undersea). In an interview online, Holly Black states that this book will possibly be a stand-alone. Many fans are speculating that this book is going to be a Nicasia POV, but from reading the interviews from Holly I believe it’s going to be either a Jude or Cardan POV (maybe even both). This would make sense since Holly has said many times that she's planning to give us more Jurdan, and that Jude still has a lot of story in her. The Prisoner's Throne leaves us with many unanswered questions, such as what happens to the Ghost, if Oak gets married, news about Wren and her family, and whether Jude and Cardan have children. A standalone book to wrap up these loose ends would be very needed.

Cardan saving and being protective of Jude

Do you guys remember the post I made about Cardan fighting alongside Jude? and how he will not sit on the sidelines to watch her fight? Fans who know Cardan well already knew this to be true, but this book further proved this. This isn’t the first time has Cardan stepped in front of Jude to save her from being impaled. My man sacrificed himself so Jude wouldn't get hurt. Many times during the Stolen Heir duology Cardan has been called a coward, but mannn he's no coward, he will protect those he loves dearly, it was so refreshing to get more of his protective side in this book.

Taryn and The ghost

Since TQON, fans have been speculating that Garrett and Taryn are involved in a romantic relationship. Although it wasn't confirmed in the book, The Prisoner's Throne offered some insight into this. We find out that Heather, Vivi, and Oak have all speculated about it. Furthermore, Oak reveals that even after 10 years, The Ghost has remained close to Taryn and her child Leander. In one chapter of TPT, The Ghost has a serious conversation with Oak, but when Leander interrupts them, Oak notices that The Ghost becomes a different person around Taryn's son. He changes his behavior and has an indulgent smile towards the boy. I personally find it adorable, and after all the hardships The Ghost has been through, I believe he deserves to find happiness, even if it's with Taryn of all people.

The Ghost’s tragedy *sobs into pillow*

I never expected The Ghost to become such a prominent character in the book. It was amazing how I started to develop an emotional attachment to the Ghost throughout the book, only for him to end up turning into a tree by the end. The chapter where the family feasts and Lady Elaine and the Ghost are found dead was pure chaos and full of royal family drama. I had such a good time reading that part, until the Ghost turned into a tree. Also, going back to the topic of the Ghost and Taryn, I feel bad for Taryn even though I know she is a terrible character. It was heartbreaking to see Taryn sob and hold the Ghost while he was slowly dying (We didn't get word from Taryn that they were dating but I think that part was enough comfirmation that they were indeed lovers). As far as we know, Taryn and the Ghost did not get a happy ending in this book :(

ps: This is why I believe holly black's next book will be a Jurdan POV, because the only way we get to know about the ghost is through them. Nicasia is not close to Wren, Oak, the Ghost, or Taryn, we will never get insight on what happens to them if this next book is a Nicasia POV. Also I've been hearing as of 3/12/24 that Holly might possibly write a Jurdan dual POV, so...more reason to believe that it will definitely not be a Nicasia POV.

Taryn Vs Wren

It's funny how Holly decided to create a lot of family issues in the second book of the duology. Many fans believe that this duology should have been a three-part series to resolve these issues. One major problem is that Taryn dislikes Wren and holds her responsible for what happened to The Ghost. Oak's family is also not very fond of Wren. It would have been nice to see a moment in the book where Oak's family and Wren could have worked together and gotten along, but that didn't happen. If Oak and Wren plan to get married, I hope that they can resolve these issues between them all.

Cardan VS Taryn

It shocked me that after 10 years of them being brother and sister in law, that they still don’t get along. I think Taryn was wrong to feel like she had to protect The Ghost from Cardan when he was only trying to help. In fact, it annoyed me a bit. While Cardan was respectful towards Taryn, he had every right to dislike her, unlike Taryn who had no reason to dislike Cardan. Moreover, I would like to mention the moment when they found the ghost almost dead and Cardan ignored Taryn and answered Jude instead, Cardan being petty to Taryn in the most respectful way is hilarious. I think that moment perfectly sums up their relationship.

Wren’s Family

Although I’m happy Wren's sister Bex reunited with Wren, I was very much expecting to get more closure from that, like seeing Wren's entire family together reunite in the book. It feels like that left a huge void at the end of the book.

Wren’s Transformation

Okay, that was absolutely shocking. Holly mentioned in one of her interviews that there would be a transformation in the book, and I guess that was it. Wren now has beautiful wings. Can someone please draw a picture of Wren with wings? Also, can you imagine what Oak and Wren's children would look like if they ever had any? Their child would have blue skin, hooves, and wings. That would be a very interesting looking child.

Wren VS Jurdan

Wren was so wrong for making Jude and Cardan appear weak in front of their court. While reading this part, I remember thinking 'Wren, please stop," I found this chapter fun to read, and seeing Jude and Cardan's reaction to Wren's power. It was interesting to see how Wren exposes Jude's geas and curse to almost the entire court, and how Cardan becomes overprotective of Jude while Wren was removing her curse. I love Cardan.

Where was Queen Annett?

Since the stolen heir, I believed that queen Annett was going to be a problem for Elfhame and Wren. As you may recall, Wren freed her prisoners, and I always believed Queen Annett would've punished Elfhame for it since Wren was with Elfhame's heir Oak. However, she did not appear in The Prisoner Throne at all. I wonder if Holly forgot to bring this issue up or if she has decided to address it in her upcoming faerie book. (Queen Annett is also pregnant, so I think she will definitely be brought up again)

Madoc's Character

I'm a bit disappointed. I was expecting a lot from Madoc in this book, but nothing happened, except the fact that Jude lifted his exile (temporarily?) It bothers me that she lifted his exile easily, does Jude not remember he caused many problems for them? Madoc is the reason why Cardan almost died, why Oak was put in danger, he's the reason why the royal family died, and why Orlagh was weakened. I at least expected that Jude lifting his exile would've caused political problems for her, since Madoc is a political criminal for Elfhame and the Undersea. I thought he would’ve at least made a big heroic or villainous move in The Prisoner's Throne, or found a way to at least redeem himself, but nope.

Oak and Wren's Ending

So…Oak does not become king of anything, which is shocking. Everyone believed that if he didn’t become the King of Elfhame he would at least rule the Ice Needle Citadel, which can still happen, since he did propose to Wren at the end of the book. But still, I find it unnecessary, I think that Wren should step down from being Queen, and run to the mortal world with Oak where they can live away from the royal duties. Oak has expressed many times he does not want to be king, but if he marries Wren he will be king, which doesn't seem satisfying to me. Wren never cared for power in The Stolen Heir, she only ever cared for love and her family, I think the ending felt incomplete and unfinished. A lot of stuff was built up from The Folk Of The Air series, and this duology was supposed to give us results, but it did not. Even Oak and Wren's love story felt rushed. I didn’t see much of a connection. It didn't give me much of what I felt when I read Jude and Cardan's love story (You guys are so welcome to disagree with me)

Jude and Oak

So if you read the book, you know how shocking Jude and Oak's relationship became. Especially that scene where they “duel” (And Jude was an absolute fucking badass in that scene) The way she tricked Hag and even Oak at first that she was going to trade Oak for Cardan. I was very impressed with Jude in this book, especially in this chapter where we see her ordering her archers, and her ripping her dress to be able to fight while she's all wet. Her dialogue was so badass: "What if I give you Oak's head instead of Cardan's" and even this quote "Well, then, what a wonderful opportunity for you to prove your loyalty and die for the High King." Chapter 23 (I was so gay for Jude in this chapter, she was so mommy material) Despite feeling a bit betrayed by Oak and believing that she had failed in protecting him, she still trusted him when it came to Wren.

Oak Vs Taryn

"For a moment, he thinks of going over there and dumping his red clover tea over his sister's head" (Chapter 19)

(Jaw was on the FLOOR when i read this) I think it really sucked that Oak's family never told him about this, and I understand that Oak had every right to feel so raged that his family hid his mother’s true killer from his knowledge. Oak and The Ghost have been close, we did get some insight of The Ghost going to the mortal world and train Oak with Magic. I really hope Oak and The ghost's issue gets resolved, but that can only happen when the ghost gets cured....I love family drama, and it shows.

Jurdan Kids

Going back to the topic at hand, Cardan and Jude have given Oak permission to abdicate, which leads me to believe that they are planning to have kids of their own. So far, there hasn't been any indication from Jurdan that they are against having children. Holly has given us insights into Jurdan taking care of Leander, which is incredibly heartwarming. For example, we find out that Cardan plays with Leander, and there's a part where Jude is in the mortal world with newborn Leander, and Oak remembers Jude playing with baby Leander with a toy, almost like she was playing with a cat. I think these are definite hints from Holly that Jurdan would make great parents. Holly did say that we would get an answer to Jude and Cardan possibly having kids in the Prisoner's Throne, and I believe this was it. I will definitely make a separate post on this.

Randalian

I'm so happy this man is dead, it was long overdue. This man annoyed the crap out of us since the folk of the air series (it’s crazy that Jude and Cardan never decided to remove him from the living council, he never saw eye to eye with Jude and disrespected them constantly)

Lady Asha apperance

It turns out that Lady Asha is still in the court. She was only mentioned once when Lady Elaine was speaking with her. At that moment, I became suspicious and believed that Lady Asha was also part of the conspirators.

Locke appearance

The dream Oak had with Locke as a fox was fun and interesting. Even though it was a dream, it was cool to hear Locke again and how he acknowledged being murdered by Taryn.

Taryn is aging...but not Jude

FINALLY, we have some information on this topic. Oak describes Jude as looking very young, and Taryn as aging. He offers two possible explanations for this: either Taryn has visited the mortal world too often as her years are catching up to her, or becoming a mother has exhausted her. For a long time since TFOTA series, fans have speculated that since Jude is the Queen of Elfhame, she will never age. And it looks like Holly seems to support this, especially since Oak finally wonders "if Jude is quite as mortal as she once was". I from now on have no doubt about it, i am a "Jude will never age as long as she's Queen of Elfhame" believer.

The Cardan and Oak problem

it turns out that it wasn’t a big deal, Oak had been too much in his head, he was his own enemy when it came to Cardan, and it was amazing to see Cardan and Oak have a brotherly talk by the end of this book. Cardan’s character has really matured, and its amazing how comfortable he's become with his loved ones (i love him so much) I will admit, that when Cardan was talking to Oak about delaying his abdication of heir, I thought he was going to announce Jude’s pregnancy and you can't blame me, the way Holly wrote it made it sound like he was going to do that. (would’ve made me scream) but nope.

Summary:

The beginning was slow, but I nonetheless enjoyed it. I love Oak and Wren, however, I felt that they could have had a stronger connection in the story. There were too many unanswered questions left in the book, and it did not provide any closure to Oak and Wren's future. I feel that the series should have been a three-part book series instead of a duology. Moreover, many of the main characters seemed to have lost their power, such as Oak's resignation as heir to the throne, Wren losing her godly powers, and Tiernan being fired from his position as Oak's guard. I think many new readers who have never read the Folk of The Air series might not have appreciated that. Despite this, I appreciate that Jurdan was not removed from the Elfhame throne. However, I think that Holly Black set up more problems in this book than solutions, which makes it feel neglectful towards Oak and Wren's story. I am excited about this book, and I am sad that we may not get more news on Elfhame until possibly 2026, as she is currently working on the second book of The Book of Night. Anyways, In other news, I have a virtual event with Holly Black tonight 3/12/24, so I will write anything important down, and I will try to ask good questions!

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rosiethorns88 · 5 years ago

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Queen of Nothing Thoughts / Reflection on the Series

Many people are asking me, so I’m pooling them here. I’m not a writer or a reviewer, just a reader. :)

SPOILERS AHEAD:

First, an expectation summary:

- Overall, the book hit all of my high notes and succeeded in its story telling to me, personally. Holly has a pattern with climax building reflected in all three of her books that I really enjoy as a reader. There are shocking moments about two-thirds of the way in each book that feel like climaxes, but after the sudden burst and fall out, it slowly builds up again to another and greater peak. I find the early upsets and expanded conclusions of the final acts to be really satisfying to unfold, page by page. Cardan and Jude are two fascinating characters and the friction their personalities cause with one another make for some satisfying sparks. The whole cast of characters are colorful and the world building is rich, and I enjoyed the escapism the entire series brought to me with each visit.

- I was completely satisfied with the pacing, because it worked for the story at hand. Madoc was making his move and allies from all over Faerie were seeing Cardan’s control over his court wane in his wake. Both Jude and Cardan had to move and move fast to get themselves in a position of defense. In fact, the one act that I feared may have dragged on the longest, Jude’s ‘entrapment’ at the camp, actually moved forward quite quickly and kept my interest once Grimsen and the Ghost entered the mix. To spend time tying up every frayed thread with other non-player characters before the end would have lessened the urgency of story’s impending conflicts. Let’s get Jude and Cardan settled and to their honeymoon first before we chat about Nicasia’s love woes over tea.

- The Jurdan reunion was great, I love how it reflects the previous books with them having to first play act with each other again. Though I was hoping for it to last a bit longer with Cardan stringing Jude along in her disguise. I was really excited for Jude to play switch-a-roo as Taryn, but didn’t expect it to end so suddenly. It would have been a great call back to the circumstance of Cardan’s being tricked at the end of The Wicked King.

- The fact the Cardan was so involved with Jude’s runarounds: the rescue attempt from the palace, the actual rescue from the camp, his tag-alongs with her questing. It made all of their interactions very satisfying as it was expanding beyond the verbal throw-downs they only had before. I’ve seen many people complain there were not enough Jurdan scenes, but y’all. We barely had a breath of their interactions from the 1st and 2nd books compared to QoN. I was thoroughly pleased.

- The fact that Cardan indulges in Jude’s political nature and wears it proudly like a brooch when he’s addressing his court. He’s basically like, “I’m here to be my witty and sarcastic self; she’s here to be her just and vicious self. We complete each other.”

- CARDAN REUNITES WITH HIS DOOR! This was my favorite reunion scene as it was one of the many world building elements I enjoyed from the first book. Cardan’s playful and endearing greeting to his door at Hallow Hall was such a thought provoking element - I could only imagine as he grew up at the hall, he had little things or persons to befriend. And with the revelation of Cardan sneaking out human servants in the night, it makes sense he could get away with it with this unique friendship. I’m so glad this was a payoff.

- Madoc - I love Madoc. SO MUCH. He’s such a rich character, it’s so hard to call him morally grey when his character is so colorfully rich. Every chapter I either put an extra tick on his ‘I hate you so much’ or ‘I love you so much’ tally. He’s so true to his nature as a red cap, yet still so loving and caring for his family. He truly shows his hurt and conflict in his anger towards Jude after he finds she has betrayed or outwitted him. I reflect back to The Cruel Prince, when Jude was reminiscing how she and Madoc would play a board game of strategy (like chess) and have to interrupt it. All day, Jude would think about her possible moves and his possible moves, so when they returned to the game, the entire strategy had changed. This is how they interacted all through out the novel. Every thought and move was predicted, then challenged, then overturned before they could even meet face to face again. It’s amazing how there are no villains or heroes in this story; Jude and Madoc’s conflict were just an ever spinning tornado of their own morals and loyalties and ideals.

- Ghost & Taryn redeemed! I must admit, I was completely shaken by the Ghost’s betrayal in TWK, and did not expect him to be a redeemable character, though I did expect him to be involved somehow. I’m a little less satisfied with how quickly Taryn changed her spots back, especially with the build up from The Lost Sisters novella, and wish that Locke wasn’t killed off-screen. I can believe what she said happened, and that she was unhappy with the situation, but for it all to be delivered in one sitting as a monologue, it didn’t sink in for me for a while. I didn’t expect to have a redeeming arc for either of them, nor expect hints at their possible relationship, but it all fell into place nicely. At the end, I felt that the Ghost deserved to have his freedom, and that Taryn was appropriate to hold him to it.

- The Bomb and The Roach! I was happy for them to find their happily ever after, but Noooooo I didn’t want the Roach to be fridged! The Roach x The Bomb x Jude x Cardan interactions produce the best lines in the entire series and I was super sad to see the Roach exit so early. But from the little we received, it was a delight.

- Nicasia, Valerian (his curse), Locke - to me these three didn’t have the conclusions I was hoping for, but there may be open lore left to explore for Holly. I do understand why others insist that the last book be split into two and expanded upon, but the book was sharply focused on Jude and Cardan’s predicaments. Nicasia, Valerian and Locke all had unfinished stories and conflicts with both of them, but they were past issues that weren’t actively affecting the plot, and so I wasn’t troubled by their absence. But I’m hoping short stories or expanded lore in other Holly-verse novels may touch upon them.

- Vivi / Heather - This side plot got a little more attention than I expected, even though I didn’t appreciate the decisions both Vivi and Heather made (just as Jude didn’t). I was actually expecting Heather to take the route that she did, but just a little bit further than where she ended up. I love that she went completely Hermione on the group, but really wasn’t helpful in the end (which is ok). However, I think the true recourse for Heather’s involvement was intended solely for Vivi. By Heather experiencing Faerie a second time with the expectations of the terrors it offered, she was able to see other facets of the world Vivi has ties too, which is why she gave Vivi the second chance to reintroduce it to her in a better light.

- Oak / Oriana - I find Oriana such a delight as a character, but I don’t know why I always forget she exists until she appears on page. Which is appropriate, as she makes herself seen and be heard when she wants to. I love how helicopter parent she is with Jude even though she’s made it clear that she barely tolerates their familial ties. Still, her ability to parry Jude’s rebellious and un-lady-like behavior with her witty retorts gave us some of my favorite scenes from the previous books, and I enjoyed their brief reunion under the same circumstances at the camp. Oak, on the other hand I felt was underused as a character, and instead, justifiably used as a political object. Oak and Oriana’s relationship made for an interesting divisiveness between Team Madoc and Team Jude, that I think was an important factor, but ultimately Oak didn’t have much to do in decision makings in the QoN like he did in TCP. However, I feel this is because his character arc begins at the end of this novel with the new character ex-Queen Suren. And whether or not that story makes it onto a page, I can accept that his story was left open-ended to begin here.

Regarding Jude:

I think it’s important to highlight Jude’s development with her feelings toward Cardan - specifically with her reaction toward her exile. I wouldn’t say she’s an unreliable narrator, more so, she’s an unreliable romantic. Jude is the ‘DON’T Notice Me Senpai’ main character who throws red flags up for every action Cardan does.

A very popular theory about Cardan’s exile was that Jude would be able to pardon herself since she is part of the crown as queen. When that turned out to be true, I saw a lot of disappointment from readers with the obviousness of it - but that’s because it was obvious to ourselves, and it always has been. Cardan’s wordplay is a defining trait for his character and there have been several scenes where we the reader are completely in the know when he’s doing it and are charmed by it right along with Jude. During the exiling, Jude is not in the know and is blinded at first by her stupor as a newly wed and then later with her doubt in Cardan’s feelings for her as she flat out admits to herself that the crown pardon could be a loop hole.

This is what makes the rose garden scene such a great turning point - because they both realized they fooled each other without knowing it and are both distressed by each other’s reaction. Their trust in each other was becoming more brittle as it grew, until they realized they both could no longer play their old schemes against each other without risking that trust breaking.

All throughout, Jude has been judging and second guessing everything he does while she scrambles across this political chess board. Deny his feelings, manipulating her own feelings, pushing and pulling and advancing further to the top before her desire for power and her desire for Cardan meet at the peak. And here, between the possibility of losing the power she gained or condemning the feelings she found, is when she finally has to make that choice for herself, when she had viable reasons to go either way. With the way she struggled for both, she earned that right to choose.

Favorite moments / quotes:

- Cardan flinching at Jude’s indirect confession while she was disguised as Taryn - and Jude wholly unaware of the implications.

- Cardan relishing in his cleverness about the exile, while Jude is like WTF and they’re completely clueless about each other’s reaction until in the later rose garden scene. - Cardan’s ‘Jude, DON’T!’ - seriously, listen to the audiobook, you can hear the fear in his voice as his murder wife runs off to battle. And because we the readers can hear that fear, while Jude doesn’t, makes it more heart breaking.

- Madoc alluding to Jude (as Taryn) about Cardan’s berserk mode when he tried to prevent Jude’s capture at the palace. And of course, Jude denying it (psh)

- Cardan doing the grunt work in Jude’s camp rescue, and getting socked in the stomach for it - hah! And of course, The Roach preening he warned him.

- Cardan subconsciously protecting Jude from the arrow trap

- Jude scaring off a faerie guard with mortal menstruation.

- “Do not touch her. She is my wife.”

- How LONG have I waited for Cardan to finally witness how much Jude mutilates her body from her fights, and then for him care for her himself in his bed was just an extra mountain of whipped cream with sprinkles on top. (remember, she hid from him her hand stabbing, her self-poisoning, her leg injury from Locke’s attack, the details of Valerian’s attempt to murder her TWICE, the details of her torturous time in the undersea, etc. Let him know your WOES, woman! Y’all need to cash in some empathy points!)

- Jude having no choice but to wear Cardan’s clothes

- SLAP

- “Maybe he’d like to hear me scream.” exchange. And the hair touch!

- MY DOOR!

- The Ghost spider scrambling up the wall towards Cardan, and Taryn whiplashing him. Poor baby!

- Cardan intrigued by Slushies and Gummy Worms

- Cardan privately reprimanding Randalin about Jude and him scurrying out of the room in a panic. WHAT WAS SAID? CARDAN WAS SMILING.

- Freakin Cardan confessing and cutting her off at the door.

- Jude taking the time to panic, to mourn and to plan after the transformation. I felt giving too much haste toward a ‘Disney-true-love-spell-breaking ending’ would have ruined the direness of Cardan’s sacrifice.

- That fingers-digging-into-her-back hug.

- Tight pants, t-shirt and a Lopsided paper crown.

#queen of nothing #spoilers #queen of nothing spoilers #qon spoilers #qon #the queen of nothing #holly black #the folk of the air #cardan #tfota #jurdan

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