#surely there’s SOMEONE in DC’s writers who still likes the characters <-delusional< /div> Explore tagged Tumblr posts

[greenglowinspooks]

Honest to god I think it’s a fake out or bait or something but the Batman #148 leaks,,

Hasn’t he suffered enough man. Can we stop using this guy as the de facto batfam punching bag for everyone else’s mental turmoil.

[yvtro]

Not hatred or arguing: just like confusion

Why do you like Jason Todd? Like everything youve talked about is stuff that just seems unlikeable do you like his potential or like what? Also somewhat related are you a Helena Bertenelli fan because I could not get into Jaosn because of what I expected but she's literally fanon Jason

easy: i love 80s robin jason. i reread these comics a couple of times a year; his main run in 'batman', barr’s detective comics (which are my favourite!), his cameos in 'teen titans', 'the cult' etc. i love even the stories written by starlin, because there's somehow still so much sympathy and sensitivity for his background there (that current mainstream comics lack).

i love that his (post-crisis) origin story has to do with his natural drive to intervene in case of injustice. he is such a relentlessly kind and caring character, that unlike most other superheroes/vigilantes doesn't start his career as a form of vendetta. his background is absolutely dreadful, but even as a kid he is so mature about it, so considerate about his family's struggles; there's barely any resentfullness towards people in his own community, if any at all. despite what bruce says about taking him off the streets and giving him robin to make sure he wouldn't end up a criminal, throughout the whole run you see that jason was not made 'irredeemable' by poverty. he did what he had to survive, he is rather emotional when it comes to power dynamics (as he should be tbh), but there's no inherent innocence loss. he is still portrayed as a kid, who is maybe a bit incompetent sometimes, but ultimately his strenght lies in his compassion.

then starlin comes in, and messes things up a bit, but at the end of the day even he doesn't ever show jason as someone with any deep-rooted malice nor anger. jay's progression into becoming more "unlikable" is marked by his frustration with not being able to protect people. with his insecurity and need for a stable family. even when killed off, he dies trying to save someone who put him in this situation in the first place.

and besides the moral dimension and his heroism, there's other stuff that i adore. his thirst for knowledge. how he deals with trying to fill in dick's shoes. how he naively worships him still. his first attempts at detective work. there's so much charm to these stories and his character there.

so the jason i like is not just his potential; it's very much an exisiting character, even if he was not written in this way for decades.

i don't love the way jason is handled post his resurrection and it's no secret, but that doesn't mean i think he is completely unlikable. there's some of his personality that preserves even through retcons: how desperate he is for love, his abandonment issues, how his idealism gradually descends into cynicism. the delusional need to achieve justice. there are some new themes that i'm really interested in as well, because i *love* a character who gnaws at their own wounds, i love tragedy of people who walk backwards into what they sought to destroy. what i don't enjoy is how the writers completely got rid of nuance in his stories and made him into a stereotype. and the reason for which i want his development to go into a completely new direction is 1. because there has to be something done with the classism 2. in all honesty, it's becoming boring (if wasn't boring for years) and i love a good twist and a reconstruction 3. most importantly, i want his personality to be reconciled with his 80s runs personality.

so i'd say i like jason because i like his original (post-crisis) characterisation, and i actually love his comics from that era too. this is precisely why i whine about post-2005 stuff so much.

but, tbh, i think it's a case for *many* fans who like older comics; most of dick fans i know can't stand his current characterisation. my other favourite character is talia and i could also spend hours complaining about the treatment dc comics gives her. bruce's character has been off the rails for years. for kon there is progress in going back to his old personality, but his origin story (which is in my opinion one of the most interesting plotlines in the history of dc) has been erased since like 2000s.

i guess my point is that there are plenty of characters who's been completely retconned so you can't expect people to enjoy all of their content on the same level. and well, i have some posts about stuff that i love about jason, and that i find immensly interesting, but things like that naturally don't get as much traction as me bitching about poor creative decisions. and people tend to ask about stuff that has to do with my criticism rather than praise (so thank you for an opportunity to do the opposite this time).

also i never really got into helena's comics, but since you said that, i now have to! thanks for recommending that, i'm actually really excited for it. is there any particular book you think i should start with?

[thattimdrakeguy]

Robin - The first Miniseries - Issue #1 Review - What makes it, and Tim Drake work? (R.I.P Tom Lyle)

One thing that I’ve adored about Tim Drake since I first started reading him. Was how he wasn’t even close to a typical superhero.

He wasn’t handsome (well, gets called cute, but that’s different), he wasn’t confident, he didn’t always know what to do, he wasn’t what you’d consider super cool, he just wasn’t. He was Timmy Drake, he was a scared, anxious, geeky, kid, and the first Robin miniseries that came out in 1991 showed exactly who Tim was. It showed exactly who he was straight from the first page of the comic.

When I read a comic, I absolutely love it, when the main character is a strong character. Not physically, or mentally strong, but when they’re just so there, that they feel like a real person (not in a delusional way, just a fleshed out way), it’s when reading a character is at it’s best, because it feels the most alive.

I felt like Timmy was a real dweeb of a kid, caught in an astounding situation when I read it. When a character is strong in the way Tim’s character is strongly written, it’s easier to get sucked into the adventure. Even though the adventure may be unrelatable, when the character is grounded and real enough, it helps make the adventure feel real. Much like how, despite Indiana Jones collected typically religious items and seeing fantastical things, it still feels grounded most of the time to keep it from feeling straight up silly all the time, because Indiana Jones himself is grounded.

Tim’s an incredibly good protagonist in almost every way you can want a protagonist to be, besides not being close to a typical action lead. He carries the story, his personality is strong (even if it’s not loud and bombastic), and you want him to succeed is.

He’s a sheltered geek that’s been put out into a world he barely knows anything about, so he can learn to be a hero, before he even feels he’s ready, but even when it’s clearly getting to him. He’s not going to let it get in the way of getting better. 

Tim’s awkward, out of his element, confused, scared. He has no clue what he’s doing even in social situations given the fact he’s in France during this story and doesn’t know anyone. All he can really do is his best, and try to stand back up after being knocked down onto his butt constantly, and stand up for what he thinks is right.

Some people consider Tim boring, and it’s one of those things I don’t really understand too well. They’re one hundred percent free to disagree, it’s a matter of tastes in the end, but I assume it comes from how Tim isn’t the typical superhero when people read for a superhero. He isn’t Batman, he isn’t the Flash, he isn’t Superman. He’s more Spider-Man if anything else, because as his character developed during the miniseries, he became strong enough to hold his own ongoing series even if he isn’t like most other superheroes, in-fact he’s just a superhero’s sidekick.

That Robin ongoing series would be the longest running teenage superhero comic in DC history only beat out by Clark Kent as Superboy.

This doesn’t mean the first miniseries is perfect though. It has it’s downfalls like being too uneventful in it’s first issue, but for the first miniseries to star any Robin as Robin, it’s great because it’s great for the character.

It took what Robin was meant to be all the way back in the 40s, but took it to be something more complex for a modern audience. Making Tim genuinely the best Robin as Robin in my opinion, as far as serving the purpose of the title, and still being great on their own separate to Batman, because Tim made Robin a solo hero as much as Robin was a sidekick.

If Justice League was the Queens and King’s of DC, Tim as Robin was the freaking Prince of DC during the 90s, because he even got to have an 80 page giant during then, something reserved for the biggest heroes. He was that popular when writers still cared enough to actually write him as himself, and not change him into their ideal.

So while I’m totally overhyping this, I’m just explaining how cool Tim used to be back in the days of better writing, because I think it’s something forgotten at this point for the most part. 

His first miniseries though, was totally low-key, just to say it since I overhyped it people might expect a blockbuster, but it’s not like that. It’s low to the ground. It wasn’t Superman fighting off an alien invasion, it’s Spider-Man. It’s a scared boy in a situation that should be handled by a brave, heroic man, but the scared boy has a big enough  heart and enough taught skill that he feels he has to be the one to save the day if no one else will.

It’s about Tim as a character more than it is the typical super-heroics. 

--

The series is set up really well to let you know who Tim is. It fleshes Tim out as a character even if it is relatively low-key compared to a bombastic sci fi character or warrior of some level.

They show you how he feels with him being scared. They give him a sense of being real by showing his anxiety, and they show you some of his motivation and sadness. They open Tim up to be vulnerable quite often to the reader.

Tim compared to other heroes, is a more emotionally vulnerable person. It allows him to stick out from more emotionally constipated or emotionally open characters. He’s open to the reader, but he’s still learning who he is. So a lot of it’s kept in side as he struggles to process the situation he’s being put through.

As far the things most heroes have that makes them a good hero. Tim doesn’t have that. He’s been established as a computer geek that has no idea what he’s doing.

When it comes to Robin. Practically every other Robin was a natural. That wasn’t the case for Tim. There’s a misconception that Tim was a Gary Stu, but he’s genuinely not. He gets the crap beat out of him a lot in this miniseries by just about anyone.

They do a good job in the miniseries, by remembering to put Tim in different situations to help him be fleshed out. To give the reader a good idea of who this kid is as you read him. The reader knows who Tim Drake is when they see him get the crap beat out of him. It lets people be attached to him and feel something when he’s down on his luck and not doing good. It makes him sympathetic in a way that isn’t forced, because you expect the main character to be beat up, but when you know what the main character is like, it’s closer to seeing a friend be beat up than a character you feel nothing towards, because you don’t know them.

One thing about Tom Lyle’s art that I think really helped the miniseries, is that it’s super obvious that Tim’s a little kid. At least as long as you ignore the stereotypical 90s buff art style. He’s incredibly babyfaced even for his own age, and shorter than every character but ‘the girl’ (because of course the girl has to be shorter. It personally bugs me, but it’s how it is in this). He’s a small kid, even if the typical 90s styled buff art doesn’t make it obvious at first. Every character besides the girl characters all are noticeably taller than him. And while he’s clearly a very serious kid trying to be what he feels he needs to be, and is mature, there’s still these inherent kid-isms in him, because no matter how hard he tries not to be he’s truly just a kid in the end.

He’s a pipsqueak.

So far in the first issue as far as I’ve shown. It shows about all the reasons why Tim doesn’t seem to be a good hero. He’s scared, anxious, emotionally slow to process things, out of his element, geeky, he doesn’t even seem to like girls like the typical action lead, but by the end of the first issue, they remember to show you why he is a hero in the first place.

Because he stands up for people. When there’s a situation that’s bad, he can’t help but jump in. He’s socially awkward in quite a few situations, but when it comes to standing up to someone being gruesome as a person or even just a simple bully, he’ll get out of his element if it means he can help. Tim doesn’t back down from them if he can help it.

Not that he’s good at this.

Like at all.

But Tim’s constantly trying to do his best. Between his massive heart and not wanting to let Bruce down. He keeps getting back up, and is constantly trying to do better.

He did not intend to be Robin when he found Dick Grayson, but when he feels he has to do something. He does something. Much like how he felt he had to be Robin because someone had to be. When a bully is there and no one else will do anything. He steps in. Even if those bullies are actually thugs, and it becomes a Robin situation.

It’s almost like he can’t help himself but save people. He can’t help but be a hero no matter who it is. If it’s a French girl getting smacked by her boyfriend, he’ll help. If it’s a a fully grown American man being beat up by a gang, who he doesn’t even know, let alone what’s going on, he’ll still help.

He tries so hard to help constantly. His little heart can’t help but leap in and help.

--

Just in the first issue. They make sure to let you know that this Robin isn’t just a one note character. He isn’t a nothing happy go lucky kind of pun-filled kid, but he fulfills what a Robin’s supposed to be. He’s a real person, not a stereotype of a sidekick.

Tim might constantly be down on his luck, he may have his butt kicked constantly, he may make mistakes, he may be awkward, he may be a total geek, but he’s still a hero, he’s still idealistic and hopeful, and does his best to make things better before he leaves.

He’s a character, who while he isn’t a typical hero, he has the spirit of a hero deep inside of him, and it’s what helps hold him together. He’s such a fully fleshed out character by the end of his first solo issue compared to how less successful characters are this early. Not that he didn’t have time to become more realized before, but they show you why he is the main character, why you should care and feel for him, and why even despite his dweebie kid-ish-ness, he is the hero.

He gets his butt kicked, but he gets back up to try again.

The character is a kid you can’t help but root for when you pay attention to him.

This miniseries isn’t so much of a grand super hero tale of thrills and constant explosions and excitement, as much as it is a simple character study, of a little geeky boy sheltered in boarding schools that had such a big heart that he became a superhero.

So maybe my fascination with Tim Drake as a character is why I adore this little low-key miniseries so much.

I feel if you’re looking for a typical superhero epic, you will hate this miniseries, but if you love characters first and full-most when reading something, and you have a soft spot for tiny, baby-faced, (mostly) soft spoken dweebs doing their best. You’ll probably love this Robin miniseries if you pay attention to it

The first issue alone, while mostly uneventful plot-wise (which does cause it to drag a bit) is pretty much Tim’s character shown through different scenarios to let you know who he is. Which even then it is great as it works in a similar way to a movie’s three act structure.

However, that doesn’t mean there’s no excitement at all in this miniseries-

It comes next.

[jarpadswalker]

Sure, my grammar is shitty but you guys on otherhand are delusional. You can't differentiate between canon and fanon. In canon Dean is straight so that's the truth applicable for everyone. In fanon, Dean can be anything the person wants, it depends on their imagination and is applicable only to them or few people like them. Hell in ur imagination he can be a girl, bi, asexual or a donkey, no one cares. Your imagination is limitated to you and people who agrees with you not to everyone.

The issue with you hellers is that you try to pass your imagination as fact and expects others to agree with it. You guys go berserk when other fans counter your imagination with Dean is straight, argument. You refuse to believe his sexuality as straight and ask fans for proof and when you are told its in canon, you refuse to believe it. Everyone from writer to directors to actors have said Dean is straight but everyone is wrong as you want to fulfill your fetish. If person who created tge character wanted Dean to be what fans want then he could have kept his orientation ambiguous and not as a well known womanizer.

No where in story he has shown any feelings towards men and no one can't be gay for just one person. If you see the show, removing your shipping goggles you will see that he is a typical male with toxic personality. No where in the show has gays being made fun off, infact in Supernatural they have made sure that their orientation is secondary and not their identity. Drinking cucumber doesn't make you gay, choosing a certain color doesn't make you gay. Choosing an angel or devil cake doesn't make you gay. Hell looking adoringly at your friend doesn't make you gay. These are the stereotypes we talk about that Destiel stan tries to pass as the proof that Dean is bi. Writers are not sending you any secret code.

You gave your example so I will explain you guys behavior by taking your example. You said, you thought you were straight till 20 coz you never had crush on girl until then. Well if I have to reflect Destielhellers behavior on your situation then ...I refuse to believe that you are bi, infact I think you are faking it, you are doing it coz you want to be part of the trend. You think by calling yourself bi you will shit on your abusive father. You got father issues....Now I send this to my followers and they send it to theirs. Someone comes and tells, you tell them that you are Bi, but they think you are in denial and doesn't know yourself. They know you better than you know yourself.

The only difference in this situation and Dean's is that he doesn't exist while you do. So the miniscule ship is not the issue. Issue are the people who are shipping it. You say every fandom have shippers and their drama but none of those extreme shippers invade other fandoms. Marvel fandom and DC fandom dramas are the worst but never once I have seen them tagging themselves in Supernatural fandom or say Stucky is canon in one of the Supernatural post or tweet. While we have Destiel stans who have written 'Destiel is canon' under the posts, tweet and tags of fandoms ranging from Riverdale to Marvel. This is problematic, Destiel is not canon and yet you tag all the non related people with it.

Infact yall have gone so delusional that an year after the show ended, you are still screaming Dean is Bi. If you remove your shipping goggles you will see the way Dean treats Cass. He is nothing but an ally, Dean and Cass both have beaten each other to death. Dean has time and again told Cass his or his issue is not that important. There is so many times in show that Dean has left Cass dying just so he could be somewhere else. That is not how a guy with feelings no matter how hidden they are treat the person they like. He has left his dead body unattended just so he could be with his brother. If he had feeling (no matter how buried) he wouldn't have left his dead body. After Cass went to empty, he forgets about him and when Sam brings him up he tell him to move on. Sam has shown more care towards Cass then Dean but still your delusional selves refuse to see. The only reason yall can let go coz you want Destiel to be canon.

None of you care for LGBTQAI representation what you care for is winning. You want the boasting rights infront of bibros and wincesties. You want to say we won, Destiel totes won, you want to boast about it coz in reality as the series ended you realised that Destiel wasn't canon and you can't accept that. You are using LGBTQAI representation as a crutch to get what you want, to fulfill your need to win. If you had cared for LGBTQAI community then your bone of contention would have been something different. You guys should have been mad that writers and Misha decided to play card and then died. You should be mad that never before they showed Cass as gay. You should be mad that Cass's death was kill the gay trope. But yall were okay with it coz you baited yourself into thinking that Dean and Cas will reunite and will be couple. You didn't spare a second thought towards Dean's like and dislikes. Just coz Cass declared himself as gay you think Dean has to be gay, as well coz gay people can't fall in love with straight gays. One sided love doesn't exist. Acc to you everytime someone say I Love you the feelings has to be reciprocated coz that is what happens in real life. But as I said none it matters to you, coz at the end of the day it is all about winning.

It is your need to win that pushed you to read an perfectly tagged anti post. You felt the need to comment on this post just coz you want to prove how you are right while I am wrong. Hence proving all the points, you even tried to bullying me by trashing my writing skills. But bad grammar or not I am calling out bullshit of destihellers and their bullying.

People like Destihellers are the reason why LGBTQAI community is finding it hard to get accepted. They are acting exactly how homophobes feared they would act. The biggest fear of homophobes is that the community will arm twist them into being like them. Hellers are behaving like being straight is not acceptable, they are literally erasing straight from story.

How are they better than homophobes? They are doing exactly what homophobes do to gay. I hope the hellers have heard the saying, an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

[lawful-evil-novelist]

Why Joker Getting Character Development Might be a Good Thing

Disclaimer: This is a long rant/essay primarily based on opinion and I am a bitter salt pile so if you disagree in any way that’s fine, this is just my personal take on things and you are free to disagree.

One of the few things that tends to irk me about DC Comics, particularly Batman, is that villains are not permitted arcs or development, save for a select few “choice” villains, and even these villains are severely restricted in what options are available to them in terms of character development.  Selina Kyle is allowed development, but only if it revolves around Batman or a member of the Bat Family.  Harley Quinn always has development in the comics, but it always follows a predictable pattern.  Even in Bombshells, to some extent, Harley grows independent of the Joker in some manner.

Harleen Quinzel is not Harley Quinn until she meets the Joker, and she cannot be with Pamela Isley until she learns to let him go.

And I think this is a problem we see with all villains in the DC canon but I think it’s especially prominent in Batman villains.  The Gotham Rogues Gallery is not allowed to stray outside of the very narrow boxes set out for them, and development they are allowed must remain inside these boxes.  Characters like Harley, Selina, Pamela, and Edward are allowed to dip into antihero territory, but only in predictable ways that the writers know the audience is comfortable with.

And I think this makes it so their most recognizable villains feel stale and overused.  They don’t stray far from their usual traits because they aren’t allowed to change in any way.

And for anyone’s money, I think we all know the biggest culprit of this lack of development and incessant use in spite of it.

Now I’m no Joker fan; I think the character is boring, overused, and frankly, an asshole.  But here’s the thing: he doesn’t need to be. Of all the plots they’ve stuffed Joker into, I’m surprised they’ve never tried to give him an actual arc.  He’s usually the bearer of an arc, usually one for Batman and is always the main bearer of Harley’s arcs, which I find particularly annoying because Harley’s development ends up centering around a man and it becomes often her only motivation to change.

Joker does not change, no matter the story. Even characters like Harvey Dent and Jonathan Crane change slightly, though the change often skews negative and they tend to get worse as a result (a different problem for a different day. Even as we laud Lego Batman’s Joker, we need to keep in mind that he does not change in that story.  The context makes it clear he has always been obsessed with Batman, and always will be, and the events of the movie do not alter his obsession, and in the end, it is used in Bruce’s favor.

This, in large part, is why Joker feels stale and overused, besides that he is forced into stories where other villains belong.  And though he is regularly used, he is not used to his full potential.  Writers pick him thinking he’s an easy write but he isn’t.

Now I’m not going to stand on a pulpit and list all the symptoms of ASPD to convince all of you Joker has it because, let’s face it, you’ve all heard it before and at this point it’s just part of the culture, but I don’t think that ASPD is an accurate summation because it has some caveats.  ASPD does not apply to conditions where the patient has another Cluster B disorder, and Joker’s “symptoms” as it were, fit closer to BPD than ASPD and a big portion of that is how he interacts with the world and how he himself acts, and in any case, I’m not here to give a sermon on how he has BPD instead of ASPD either. Diagnosing Joker doesn’t get us any closer to my point and it doesn’t make him any easier to write.

And my point is this: Joker doesn’t just need to be used less, though he certainly does.  What Joker desperately, desperately needs is to change and grow as a character.  Why? Well aside from not having the most boring thing that has ever dried your brain to a fine powder.  Joker is hard to write, I’m not going to sit here and tell comic writers or fanfic writers that giving him a character arc is easy because it isn’t.  Joker is a tough character to write.  He is simultaneously a man who is too far gone to care that anyone is getting hurt or killed in his jokes and a man who has lost everything and now desperately wants to die.  That isn’t easy to write and I think people tend to trivialize just how hard it is.

Or they do stupid shit like make him tear off his own face like that is exactly how a suicidally depressed person self-mutilates.

Yeah that’s totally an inoffensive portrayal of self-harm.

There’s probably a resounding question of why I should care.  Joker’s a manipulative, abusive asshole he shouldn’t be allowed redemption, right?  Well, I think there is a point where you need to look back and wonder: why is Joker so boring compared to the other rogues?  Because he really is painfully boring in comparison.

I think it’s because he doesn’t feel like a real person.  With Ed, Harley, Jon, Pam, Selina, we relate to them because they have personalities that feel organic and feel human.  We relate to Jon because we have all been scared children in situations we could not escape, we relate to Pam because we have all had scars that did not heal correctly, we relate to Ed because we have all been told at one time or another that we were not worth the time or effort to be loved.  None of us have been Joker.  None of us know, much less understand, what’s going on in his head. We know Jon is angry at the world, and we know it is because when he was suffering and scared no one did anything to stop it.  We know Pam is angry too, and we know she is angry because when she needed help to heal, help was not given.  We know Ed is overcompensating, and we know he is doing so because he desperately wants to prove that he is worthy of love.  We know and understand these characters and their motivations, they are human.

They are also not extremely offensive portrayals of mental illness and are seldom used as such.  If it sounds like I’m bitter about that face thing in New 52, it’s because I am, moving on.

When people call Joker a monster, it is accurate in that he is not humanized.  Even his very explicit wish to die is usually telegraphed by other characters.  The only time he mentions it is in probably the most human we’ve seen Joker in any comic: The Killing Joke.

And frankly this is one of my favorite comics involving the Joker because while I still didn’t relate to him, he still felt human to me.  And further, he recognizes, in this moment, that he has gone too far. This is something I think is important to recognize about Joker: he still has standards, he still knows there is a point of no return, he just doesn’t care.  And he doesn’t care because he wants to die.

But I don’t think Joker’s wish to die should be fulfilled, though I would like to see it explored, I’d actually really like to see Joker come to terms with the person he’s become, because he clearly hasn’t.  If he is so desperate to die that he purposely pushes at everyone’s threshold in an attempt to be killed, even Harley’s.

Harley even recognizes it. Can you imagine reading a comic where the main conflict is not dealing with someone who is mentally ill but someone who is mentally ill coming to terms with the fact that, no matter what, they can never be the same person as the one they were before their mental illness occurred?  That would be interesting!  In fact, I’m not even sure we’ve explored this with Bruce.  The only people who have come to terms with living with a mental illness and never being able to return to the people they were beforehand are Jon and Pam, and this acceptance is always before they ever become rogues, because they know what they went through and the changes they underwent as a result are how they’re coping, and that they can’t just pretend it never happened because that doesn’t change the fact that it did.

And keep in mind coming to terms with being unable to return to the time before the onset of mental illness is not the same as rejecting that time altogether, because that’s what Ed does and we know this is a coping mechanism and we know it isn’t healthy.  Ed does not like the person that came before the Riddler, Harley and Joker want to return to it so desperately they’re rejecting themselves now, and Jon and Pam, while not happy with the way they are now, know they cannot go back.  And the irony is that they both know they need to move forwards, and almost never do. Jon and Pam are frequently static in the comics, because the status quo is god and we must have a fear-obsessed delusional psychiatrist and a man-hating plant lady on the evil side because there is no way two people that have come to terms with themselves and are at best chaotic neutral types can ever do anything good and if they do it is with the aid of someone else because they are helpless to change on their own despite being intelligent human beings.

And if you are wondering, I am bitter about this too and it’s making me get off track.

The thing is, Joker has never been in a situation where his hand has been forced.  He has never been made to do something he doesn’t want to do and he has never had a single moment where, when the chips were down, he had a chance to definitively say: “I don’t want to die.  I want to be in control.  I want to do better.  I want to live.”

And I think he hasn’t because comic writers have never placed him in situations like that for whatever reason.  I think, and this is just speculation, that they are afraid that there is no situation you can put Joker in where he would, without a shadow of a doubt, say “I don’t want to die.”  There is an underlying feeling that Joker has no situation where he will look inward and realize that it is his fault he’s the way he is and he is the one that needs to change.

But no human is that stubborn or immovable, no human is so averse to change that they will never do so.  Somewhere out there, there is a situation where Joker would willingly change or even turn his life around, I can dare to dream of a world where instead of the Joker we have the Jokester because of character development instead of an alternate universe.

Especially since Jokester was summarily given the shaft in the Countdown series and we can add that to the third thing in this rant I am extremely bitter about.

Here’s the thing, there is something admirable about comics that address suicidal depression in a respectful and serious manner, there is a reason the Deadpool comic addressing it is so well-loved.

And the thing is, there are Gotham Rogues who suffer from depression, whether suicidal or not, and Joker is one of them.  It is perfectly fine to address suicidal depression with a character your audience will never see again, but I feel like it might also be accepted, or even welcomed, to have a character who suffers from suicidal depression address that it isn’t just a one-shot character, but one you always see.  Joker works for this too because it brings something up: you can be happy and still suffer from depression, these things are not incompatible.

I think Joker developing as a character is almost, in its own way, vital to the character as a trope. In continuities as long and extensive as Batman’s, characters need to grow and change to keep them from growing stale or feeling overused.

Though it might help to not use the characters so fucking much.

And that is the end of my bitter angry rant on the subject.

[enemymine2000]

Fandom rambles: Why I'll never watch Tony DiNozzo leave

I have been a NCIS fan from the very first minute. It wasn't even its own show yet, when I started to root for Team Gibbs (minus Blackadder of course). So when the show came to be, it had always been a show about Gibbs and Tony and their cases for me. Everyone else was just an addition. Some more so than other.

The core team (bullpen) was Gibbs with Tony, the expanded team entailed Ducky and Abby. Everyone was just there to add momentum, to have someone to play of on, to add a little different spice week to week.

That means as much as I loved Kate, I never rallied too much for her. I was sad to see Sasha Alexander go, but not because now “Tate” would never happen, but simply because I had gotten used to her special kind of spice. Although the recipe started to grow stale a bit.

Sean Murray's addition to the cast was a quirk I liked to see for a while. But at the end of season 2 I wouldn't have shed a tear, if his Timothy McGee would have been reassigned.

That changed a bit when they just had to add a new female main character with Cote de Pablo's Ziva David. Whom I hugely disliked from day one. Not because of the actress – I never have heard anything from her before and never watched anything else she had been part of.

It's Ziva's backstory that made it impossible to like her. She was a spy, an assassin, officer of a foreign agency and on top of that the handler (and half-sister) of Kate's assassin.

So, yeah, no. Biggest nope that ever noped.

No way in freaking hell was I ever going to be able to suspend disbelieve that much. And I didn't. For 8 seasons I saw my favorite show getting transformed week after week into “The Ziva David Show”. If it wasn't about her evergrowing daddy issues (including international espionage), it had to be about her toying with Tony.

Who for the sake of Ziva David's ever growing unbelievable talents and trust with Gibbs was dumbed down until the abused kid of an alcoholic father was actually made to forgive said deadbeat on urging of his mentor Gibbs! Well, don't get me started on the many issues I have with having Senior on the show.

Finally Cote jumped ship - I heard my inner William Wallace scream “Freedom” - rejoiced and really looked forward for Tony's evolution. Which actually happened. He was intelligent once more. A seasoned investigator. Gibbs' trusted Second in Command. Okay, McGee, not hanging on Ziva's coattails any longer was shaping up too, but still no competition. Tony DiNozzo was back and just happened to save Gibbs' ass again.

Sadly Gibbs, ever since being blown up at the end of season 3 had this recurring problem with the memory of his “girls”. On any other show I would have loved the otherworldly stuff, but on a mostly procedural the thing shouldn't have to be brought up practically every year.

Yes, he lost wife and daughter. Yes, he had to relive the trauma due to having lost his memories. But – he had his Mexican Siesta and years and years to somewhat get over it. Yes, you'll never truly get over stuff like that, but you move on. Gibbs was married three more times and had countless affairs for Chuck's sake! Don't tell me, he exclusively loves Shannon to this day!

Yeah, well, so Gibbs is starting to be odd. Even by Gibbs' standards. And Tony suffers for it. Of course he does. Again the character gets sidelined for some rehashed drama. Biggest difference this time?

Michael Weatherly told the world, that he was leaving the show. “Because there are no new stories to tell for Tony” or something like that.

Instead of giving their second highest billed actor and his much beloved character of 12 years a huge send-off, they opt for a fan-pleaser. Well, actually only part of the fandom.

You see, the “Tivas” are very vocal and have never accepted anyone in Cote's place. Instead of simply stopping to watch the show, if they hated it so much, they yelled and screamed and even threatened. (Michael Weatherly's family got death threats, because those so called fans thought that fiction and reality were somehow the same and Bojana somehow had any sway in the contract negotiations between CBS and Cote – beats me, how someone can be so delusional.)

Basically a temper tantrum on a huge scale. And as the good “parents” the showrunners are, they gave into their demands and delivered Tiva. *end saracasm here*

Instead of a huge send-off Tony DiNozzo didn't even appear for one of the last three episodes and only marginally in one other. Since I refuse to watch his actual last episode, I have to rely on recaps for it, but his last episode the fans are suddenly presented with a “Tiva” love-child out of left field, which was such a love-child that Ziva never even hinted at it during their correspondence and Skype chats after she remained in Israel for good. But since the actress was not available, Ziva could not answer the questions due to the fact that she conveniently got herself killed, which Tony somehow not believes and decides to take the child and goes to Paris (of all places) to look for her.

Huge send-off, huh?! *my sarcasm is showing again*

Yeah, no, nope and noper. I refuse to watch that wreck. Ziva might be dead, but I refuse to believe that Tony – previous playboy extraordinaire (after Wendy left him practically at the altar) - would have engage in sexual relations with any woman, he was not married to, without being sure about protection. Especially not Ziva, who was anything else but celibate and even engaged in sexual acts with her marks, when needed. That's one.

Two is that Tony has been a seasoned special agent and investigator with ties to the highest places for close to 15 years at the time of him leaving. He has managed to hunt Ziva down across the Middle East when she played dead there, even when the freaking Mossad could not, he would have heard about a pregnancy and subsequent child in the event of an accident of the procreational nature instead off being surprised by it. (Not to mention that some of his contacts actually came to genuinely like and respect him.)

Three – honestly, Tony lived for his job for far too long, I get it, but he had a good thing going with Zoe there for a while. But the character (and their relationship) simply got dropped off-screen. Never understood why. I mean, there was not even some bullshitting about: “Yeah, we are alright in the sack, but otherwise we're better off as friends.” It simply was over, Tony was left in a limbo for a while and then Ziva allegedly dropped dead and left him to raise their daughter. That’s simply lazy story writing.

No. Nope. Noper.

Even if I could believe that whole love-child BS, Ziva David – as much as I hate her character – never struck me as a woman, who - outside of her duties as a spy/assassin - would bereave a parent of his child. Even if only for the sake of the child.

After all she suffered from abandonment issues all her life, because of her Daddy living for his job and only accepting his kids when they were good little soldiers. So her doing something like that to her own child is too taxing for my imagination.

No, Tony's send-off was badly planned and written by lazy writers who simply had no understanding of this character's past and intentions, as well as obviously not knowing the show from the beginning.

Tony was proud to be Gibbs' Second, loyal to a fault and a great agent. It would have been time for the big reward, not a short “bye, bye”.

A new love, maybe a new position closer to his new love, his own team at least. Or if he would have been willing to leave the field, a promotion to assistant to or even Deputy Director would have been something I could see Tony willing to so. It has lots of travels and lots of people and new experiences (which he loves), but it's not too much of the elbow-rubbing society like some kind of assistant director stationed out of DC.

Heck, even him taking a bullet for Gibbs, McGee or Ellie would have been a better send-off!

So, no, not watching that or anything that followed after. In my mind, Gibbs got his shit together, and him and Tony are still merrily solving major cases for the NCIS. And sometimes Tony comes by after hours and sits on his step of stairs down the basement, and they talk like the friends they actually always have been.