#stop perpetuating the idea that trans people have to hate themselves to be valid

[tyrannuspitch]

Jumping off @kidrat​ ’s recent post on JKR, British transphobia, and transphobia against transmasculine people, after getting a bit carried away and too long to add as a comment:

A major, relatively undiscussed event in JKR’s descent into full terfery was this tweet:

[image id: a screenshot of a tweet from JK Rowling reading: “’People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

Rowling attaches a link to an article titled: “Opinion: Creating a more equal post-COVID-19 world for people who menstruate” /end id]

This can seem like a pretty mundane TERF talking point, just quibbling over language for the sake of it, but I think it’s worth discussing, especially in combination with the idea that cis women like JKR see transmasculine transition as a threat to their womanhood. (Recite it with horror: ”If I were young now, I might’ve transitioned...”)

A lot of people, pro- or anti-transphobe, will make this discussion about whether the term “woman” should include trans women or not, and how cis women are hostile to the inclusion of trans women. And that’s absolutely true. But the actual language cis women target is very frequently being changed for the benefit of trans men, not trans women, and most of them know this.

Cis people are used to having their identities constantly reaffirmed and grounded in their bodies. A lot of cis women, specifically, understand their social and physical identities as women as being defined by pain: misogynistic oppression is equated to the pains of menstruation or childbirth, and both are seen as the domain of cis women. They’re something cis women can bond over and build a “sisterhood” around, and the more socially aware among them can recognise that cis women’s pain being taken less seriously by medicine is not unrelated to their oppression. However, in the absence of any trans perspectives, these conversations can also easily become very territorial and very bioessentialist.

Therefore... for many cis women, seeing “female bodies” described in gender neutral language feels like stripping their pain of its meaning, and they can become very defensive and angry.

And the consequences for transmasculine people can be extremely dangerous.

Not only do transmasculine people have an equal right to cis women to define our bodies as our own... Using inclusive language in healthcare is about more than just emotional validation.

The status quo in healthcare is already non-inclusive. When seeking medical help, trans people can expect to be misgendered and to have to explain how our bodies work to the doctors. We risk harassment, pressure to detransition, pressure to sterilise ourselves, or just being outright turned away. And the conversation around pregnancy and abortion in particular is heaving with cisnormativity - both feminist and anti-feminist cis women constantly talk about pregnancy as a quintessentially female experience which men could never understand.

Using gender-neutral language is the most basic step possible to try and make transmasculine people safer in healthcare, by removing the idea that these are “women’s spaces”, that men needing these services is impossible, and that safety depends on ideas like “we’re all women here”. Not institutionally subjecting us to misgendering and removing the excuse to outright deny us treatment is, again, one of the most basic steps that can be taken. It doesn’t mean we’re allowed comfort, dignity or full autonomy, just that one major threat is being addressed. The backlash against this from cis women is defending their poorly developed senses of self... at the cost of most basic dignity and safety for transmasculine people.

Ironically, though transphobic cis women feel like decoupling “women’s experiences” from womanhood is decoupling them from gendered oppression, transmasculine people experience even more marginalisation than cis women. Our rates of suicide and assault are even higher. Our health is even less researched than cis women’s. Our bodies are even more strictly controlled. Cis women wanting to define our bodies on their terms is a significant part of that. They hold the things we need hostage as “women’s rights”, “women’s health”, “women’s discussions” and “support for violence against women”, and demand we (re-)closet ourselves or lose all of their solidarity.

Fundamentally, the problem is that transphobic cis women are possessive over their experiences and anyone who shares them. Because of their binary understanding of gender, they’re uncomfortable with another group sharing many of their experiences but defining themselves differently. They’re uncomfortable with transmasculine people identifying “with the enemy” instead of “with their sisters”, and they’re even more uncomfortable with the idea that there are men in the world who they oppress, and not the other way around. “Oppression is for women; you can’t call yourself a man and still claim women’s experiences. Pregnancy is for women; if you want to be a man so badly why haven’t already you done something about having a woman’s body? How dare you abandon the sisterhood while inhabiting one of our bodies?”

Which brings me back to the TERF line about how “If I were young now, I might have transitioned.”

I’m not saying Rowling doesn’t actually feel any personal connection to that narrative - but it is a standard line, and it’s standard for a reason. Transphobic cis women really believe that there is nothing trans men go through that cis women don’t. They equate our dysphoria to internalised misogyny, eating disorders, sexual abuse or other things they see as “female trauma”. They equate our desire to transition to a desire to escape. They want to “help us accept ourselves” and “save us” from threats to their sense of identity. The fact is, this is all projection. They refuse to consider that we really have a different internal experience from them.

There’s also a marked tendency among less overtly transphobic cis women, even self-proclaimed trans allies, to make transphobia towards trans men about cis women.

Violence against trans men is chronically misreported and redefined as “violence against women”. In activist spaces, we’re frequently told that any trauma we have with misogyny is “misdirected” and therefore “not really about us”. If we were women, we would’ve been “experiencing misogyny”, but men can’t do that, so we should shut up and stop “talking over women”. (Despite the surface difference of whether they claim to affirm our gender, this is extremely similar to how TERFs tell us that everything we experience is “just misogyny”, but that transmasculine identity is a delusion that strips us of the ability to understand gender or the right to talk about it.)

I have personally witnessed an actual N*zi writing an article about how trans men are “destroying the white race” by transitioning and therefore becoming unfit to carry children, and because the N*zi had misgendered trans men in his article, every response I saw to it was about “men controlling women’s bodies”.

All a transphobe has to do is misgender us, and the conversation about our own oppression is once again about someone else.

Transphobes will misgender us as a form of violence, and cis feminist “allies” will perpetuate our misgendering for rhetorical convenience. Yes, there is room to analyse how trans men are treated by people who see us as women - but applying a simple “men oppressing women” dynamic that erases our maleness while refusing to even name transphobia or cissexism is not that. Trans men’s oppression is not identical to cis women’s, and forcing us to articulate it in ways that would include cis women in it means we cannot discuss the differences.

It may seem like I’ve strayed a long way from the original topic, and I kind of have, but the central reason for all of these things is the same:

Trans men challenge cis women’s self-concept. We force them to actually consider what manhood and womanhood are and to re-analyse their relationship to oppression, beyond a simple binary patriarchy. 

TERFs will tell you themselves that the acknowledgement of trans people, including trans men, is an “existential threat” that is “erasing womanhood” - not just our own, but cis women’s too. They hate the idea that biology doesn’t determine gender, and that gender does not have a strict binary relationship to oppression. They’re resentful of the idea that they could just “become men”, threatened by the assertion that doing so is not an escape, and completely indignant at the idea that their cis womanhood could give them any kind of power. They are, fundamentally, desperate not to have to face the questions we force them to consider, so they erase us, deflect from us, and talk over us at every opportunity.

Trans men are constantly redefined against our wills for the benefit of cis womanhood.

TL;DR:

Cis women find transmasculine identity threatening, because we share experiences that they see as foundational to their womanhood

The fact that transphobes target inclusive language in healthcare specifically is not a mistake - They do not want us to be able to transition safely

Cis women are uncomfortable acknowledging transphobia, so they make discussion of trans men’s oppression about “womanhood” instead

This can manifest as fully denying that trans men experience our own oppression, or as pretending trans men’s experiences are identical to cis women’s in every way

[writing-with-olive]

A few tropes to avoid: LGBT addition

Note that this is not a complete list, but rather some tropes that I tend to see a lot that are tiring if not downright offensive and hurtful. This turned out to be a very long post, so most of it ended up below the cut. Press J to skip.

Gay/Lesbian

[id: two flags. The one on the top is the lesbian pride flag. The one on the bottom is the gay pride flag /end id]

Anything hypersexualizing

It’s just... not good representation. No one likes to be hypersexualized. Ever. 

The one gay/lesbian in the heterosexual friend group

This tends to come across as tokenism. Not real representation. Also, people tend to be friends with people they connect with. This is why a lot of LGBT people form groups. It’s actually far more likely in the real world for there to be a gay friend group with one straight person.

The homosexual dies first

Yay there’s a gay/lesbian person! Representation! oh... they died five minutes in? That sucks. 

Look, if there’s a lot of death happening in your story, it’s fine if a gay person dies, but please stop making the first death a gay person. And if you decide to kill of a gay person, make sure it’s not the only one.

The gay that refuses to admit he’s gay but he’s super feminine so he has to be

Femininity does not equal being gay. I’m not entirely sure where this trope (and general misconception) came from, but it’s tiring to see it getting beaten into the ground

Femininity is fine as a trait, but it should not be the tell that a character’s gay. Finding other dudes attractive or being attracted to other dudes should be the main tell.

(Bi/pan, Trans, Nonbinary, Genderflux/genderfluid, Ace/aro all below the cut)

Bi/Pan

[id: two pride flags. The one on the top is the pansexual pride flag. The one on the bottom is the bisexual pride flag /end id]

Anything hypersexualizing

See above. I’m tired of it. It’s not good representation.

The bi/pan character is a cheater

Bi/pan people aren’t any more likely to cheat than anyone else. The fact that the general pool of people bi/pan people are attracted to is larger doesn’t really change that. Please don’t make your bi/pan character a cheater.

The “no this character is with a [guy/girl] now so that means they’re [straight/gay] not bi”

This is bi erasure. Bi/pan people are still bi/pan when they’re dating a dude. Bi/pan people are still bi/pan when they’re dating a girl. Bi/pan people are still bi/pan when they’re dating a nonbinary person. Period.

The “this character can’t be bi/pan - they’ve only slept with one gender/they’re a virgin”

Being bi/pan is about being attracted to people of two or more genders/being attracted to people regardless of gender. It doesn’t matter who they’ve slept with. If they’re bi/pan, they find more than one gender attractive.

Trans

[id: the trans pride flag /end id]

“Hi I’m John, but I used to be Jane.”

In no world is this realistic. Trans people are not going to introduce themselves to anyone by using their deadname (their name given at birth that no longer applies to them). There are lots of other ways to show a character is trans.

Trans dudes have to be hypermasculine, and trans girls have to be hyperfeminine

This is just untrue... being a more affeminate trans dude doesn’t make him any less of a man. Being a more masculine trans woman doesn’t mean she’s any less of a woman. Not conforming to the most stereotyped version of their gender does not mean they’re not a valid person

“He - she - did the thing” when referring to a trans woman and vice versa for a trans man in prose.

I specify in prose because if someone has just come out, and characters are tripping up over pronouns but trying to learn and correct themselves, then that’s usually fine (though make sure to research what’s acceptable around this and what isn’t).

The whole calling attention to someone’s pronouns by misgendering someone and then flamboyantly correcting yourself when they’re trans thing can actually be kind of transphobic. When you’re writing prose, you don’t have any excuse so don’t do this.

The trans guy finding a bunch of ace bandages (or something similar) and using them to bind his chest

Yes, this is realistic. Yes, a lot of people do this, but it is an extremely unsafe way to bind. If your character binds, do your research. If they bind unsafely then SHOW THE NEGATIVE RESULTS of binding unsafely (difficulty breathing, cracked ribs, spinal problems, etc) they can be pretty severe. A lot of people don’t know how to bind and take cues from what they see in the media. Don’t perpetuate false information.

Nonbinary

[id: the nonbinary pride flag. /end id]

The nonbinary character has to be flatchested and vaguely masculine in order to be nonbinary

Nonbinary people are still nonbinary when they’re feminine. Nonbinary people are still nonbinary when they’re masculine. Please reflect this in your stories, as people take cues for how society works based off of the cumulation of the media they recieve.

Misgendering during an argument

This is actually really damaging to nonbinary people. What happens is that people see that it’s okay to misgender someone if they’re mad, when in reality, pronouns are a right, not a privilage to be stripped away whenever you get mad. If you were really mad at your country’s leader, you wouldn’t misgender them when you rant. You can hate them with all of your being and you probably still wouldn’t misgender them. Why is it any different with nonbinary people?

All the nonbinary people were AFAB (assigned female at birth)

It’s not inherantly wrong to have AFAB nonbinary folk in your story, but it is nice to see AMAB (assigned male at birth) nonbinary characters as well. There’s a lot less representation for them, so the more representation the better.

Being nonbinary is a phase - you’re actually binary trans or cisgender

Some people identify as nonbinary and do later find out that they identify more with a binary gender, but there’s also a lot of people who are just... nonbinary. It’s hugely dissapointing when a character that’s meant to be representation turns out to actually not be. Especially if they were the only nonbinary character.

Genderfluid/Genderflux

[id: two flags. the one on the top the genderfluid pride flag, and the one on the bottom is the genderflux pride flag /end id]

The one character in the background who’s genderfluid/genderflux in chapter three and then never seen ever again

Just include a genderfluid/genderflux character that’s actually relevant. It’s not that hard, and it’s really not that confusing. Their gender changes sometimes. They might switch their pronouns accordingly. 

The genderfluid character who’s short, vaguely masculine and has brightly died hair.

This one isn’t exactly offensive, per se, but it does feel like this is the only representation of a genderfluid character that I ever see, and that my friends ever see. Diversity is more than just having people who use different labels. It’s also about showing the different walks of life within those groups. There are a lot of genderfluid/flux people who don’t look like the stereotypical genderfluid/flux person, and they deserve representation just as much as everyone else.

The genderfluid character is the alien

This is a cop-out. It’s fine if you’ve got a race of genderfluid/flux aliens. Awesome, actually! Just add a genderfluid/genderflux human character too.

The genderfluid person who wakes up in the morning and “decides” if they’re going to be a boy or a girl today.

There are a couple things wrong with this. The first is that genderfluid people don’t just “decide” which gender they are. Their gender is more of it’s own entity. There’s not much of a choice with it. It just is.

From my own experience I can assure you that genderfluid people don’t just wake up in the morning with a random gender and then that’s their gender for the day. For me personally, my gender will change somewhere between once every three hours and once every three days, but it’s surprisingly rare that it’s overnight. It can even happen in the middle of conversations and stuff like that.

Genderfluid people don’t just switch between being a boy and being a girl. There’s a lot of space in between: nonbinary, maverique, agender, just to name a few.

Ace/Aro

[id: two pride flags. The one on top is an aromatic pride flag, and the bottom is an asexual pride flag. /end id]

The character’s horrible backstory turned them ace/aro

This is not to negate the fact that some people do identify as ace/aro after a traumatic event. That being said, most ace/aro people are just...ace or aro. There wasn’t any backstory. That’s just the way they are. Seeing that a lot more represented would be awesome.

The character’s got a mental illness because they’re ace/aro

Being ace/aro does not mean you have a mental illness. The idea that it does being spread through the media people consume is very harmful and it increases the stigma around being ace/aro, in a place where there really shouldn’t be. Yes you can have a mental illness and be ace/aro, but they’re not usually correlated.

The ace character can’t be ace because look they’ve got a partner!

Ace is short for asexual meaning you don’t feel any sexual attraction. That does not mean you can’t feel any romantic attraction. Therefore, your character can be hella ace and still have a partner that they’re romantically attracted to

If your character was aroace (a term that’s short for aromantic asexual), then they probably wouldn’t be interested in having a partner.

The character who’s aro/ace but then “finds the right person” right at the end

If they’re demisexual/demiromantic, then that’s different, but it does make it feel like the “flaw they were overcoming” was being ace/aro, and that’s both damaging to the community, and it’s also just dissapointing. There are a whole host of other flaws that your character could have that are much more worth the reader’s time.

[im-the-punk-who]

Idk if ur the right person to send this to so feel free to ignore if you aren't but I'm beginning to realize that I might be a trans guy after years of thinking I'm enby and I'm really struggling with that? I've received a lot of the messages over the years about how men are bad and violent and I've also experienced a lot of gender based violence before I was out. I know intellectually that there's nothing wrong with manhood and yet I'm still really struggling. Idk do you have any thoughts on learning to accept your own manhood

Okay! Sorry this took a few days to answer but this is...definitely still a complicated thing for me, too.

First off I wanna say that whether you end up identifying as a binary trans man or somewhere in between that and nonbinary, that is very cool and valid and all of this can apply no matter where on the spectrum of masculinity you ultimately end up falling.

I saw a post which explains the basic thesis of what I'm gonna say, which is that your gender does not equal your morality. 

Tumblr in particular really likes to go hard on the misandry and it can be really hard not to internalize that. Especially when it comes in the form of so many jokes, and especially especially when some of it does line up with experiences you’ve had. The biggest thing to realize, is that just *being a man* doesn't make you inherently violent or toxic or bad. All of the things that Tumblr and feminism in general tends to equate to “being a man = bad” are things that are learned or encouraged over time, no matter how much terfs like to insist they are traits inherent in being born with a y chromosome. 

(And yes, these misandry arguments ALL have their basis in gender essentialism and in arguing why trans people can’t exist.)

As this relates to trans men, it becomes akin to walking a tightrope our entire lives. In both society at large and LGBT spaces we're made to fit as close as possible into gender norms to avoid violence or oppression(or the insistence we’re really just lesbians or self-hating cishets). But we also have first hand experience of the ways in which men are *socialized* to behave being harmful and don’t want to perpetuate them and be labeled a ‘bad person’. So we have to constantly walk this line of, I suppose trying to act manly enough while also trying not to cause waves (And, AS A NOTE, does that sound eerily similar to the argument most feminists say is purely a feminine experience? Is it almost like the very system that seeks to free cis women through hatred of men perpetrates those exact same systems onto other marginalized communities?)

And I will say, this is something I still struggle with. A lot. It's not going to be something you can take a magic pill for and never have to worry about again. I started transitioning almost a decade ago and I'm still trying to find the balance. Cis men can spend their *whole lives* trying to find that balance. I know quite a few - in case it feels like this is a purely trans experience. Reckoning with the way that male privilege has socialized men to harm at the same time radical feminism has socialized everyone it can that all men intentionally cause harm is a universal experience among men who are aware of it. 

It's not easy, and I guess just...if you feel like you're struggling on that front as you continue your gender journey(Laynie i hate you i hate you i hate you) try to remind yourself that you're not alone. And that what you’re fighting against is a systemic socialization, not something inherent in yourself. You’re going to screw up - that doesn't make you a bad person or a bad man.

I listen a lot to Brene Brown. 

I know people are probably sick of hearing me talk about her, but she is a shame researcher who honestly helped me a LOT in realizing why I was feeling so bad about parts of my personality or my gender expression. She’s excellent. If you find you’re having a lot of trouble reckoning with being this thing you have perceived as bad for a very long time, I highly recommend listening to some of her ted talks and other speeches. Most of them are on youtube. 

For a long time I was trying to base my gender off of what I thought people would love. I went over the top, dressed in popular styles, was WAY more feminine than I actually feel, and tried to make myself as unassuming as possible - in part because of childhood trauma but also because I was genuinely ashamed to be a man(particularly a gay man) because I had internalized the idea that men - especially gay men - were woman-haters. (And, because I hated *myself* as a woman, I thought that I also hated women, and I thought that I must be one of those Bad Gays.)

But once I stopped trying to do that? Once I was like ‘no I’m actually a gay-up man’ and stopped berating myself for not liking my feminie body and hating the parts of myself that I didn’t identify with but felt forced to perform? Once I started looking at what made *me* happy and not other people? It became so much easier to not feel those things. 

SO I guess, what I’m saying is that the best way to deal with internalized misandry is to try to forgive yourself, and recognize that the things that men perpetrated against you and that people say are ‘toxic male traits’ are not *inherent* to being a man. They are things that are taught to men(both cis and trans) by society. And also that like, these are also things that are not just inherent to men. Any toxic trait that a man exhibits a woman can too - and yeah there’s a discussion about how the general power imbalance between men and women makes it less likely a woman would cause as much damage but honestly? If you’re on tumblr you’re most likely in female dominated spaces where arguably that isn’t true, especially with the number of fucking TERFS on this website. 

Also....you do not inherit cismale privilege just by identifying as a man. No matter how far you take your transition, you are *always* going to be at a different level of privilege from a cisman. Even if you transition as far as you are able to right now and live and pass as a cisman for the rest of your life, you are not a cisman and that is going to affect how you move through the world.

(That doesn’t mean you are not a *man* because you are not cis, btw. Just that there are things that cismen don’t have to worry about that are going to affect your life - things like ovarian cancer, breast cancer, hormonal dependence, corrective abuse, medical shortages, physical differences that out transpeople - there are a hundred things that trans men have to experience throughout their lives that cismen are never, ever going to deal with. And yes, this goes for transwomen / cis women as well.)

Something that helped me become comfortable living as a man was to look at specific traits of the men in my life. Why did I feel comfortable around this man, but not others, what red flags physically or emotionally did this behavior set off in me? And then focusing on those specific *behaviors* rather than the men themselves. If you can separate the individual traits from an overarching idea of 'manhood' that might be helpful in feeling like you can inhabit manhood without being toxic. 

Basically, my best advice is to tell yourself that what makes you a man does not make you inherently toxic. In fact what makes *all* men, men, does not make them inherently toxic. Men are not trash just because they’re men, and the fight against misandry *is* a fight for marginalized people. It hurts transmasculine people in exactly the ways you are hurting. No matter what TERFs say - no matter what male-critical or whatever they’re calling themselves to not have to call themselves TERFs say - men are not born evil, or bad, or trash. 

Toxic masculinity is a learned behavior. It is not something you are given the day you start identifying as a man, and it is not something you have to perpetuate. 

Calling it anything else does a disservice to everyone who identifies as masculine of center but especially trans men, who have to reckon with this exact knowledge that in affirming who they are, certain people are going to hate them and call them monsters and tell them they are trash and unworthy of loving without hurting. 

And that shit just isn’t true. It isn’t fucking true! Men are not toxic just because they are men, and you are not a bad person just because you are a transman. That’s, I suppose, the best advice I can offer you. I hope it helps, and I also just want to reiterate that I hope you find affirmation in whatever you end up deciding. <3 <3 <3

[spacejellyfish3]

First, while I am cis I’m actually a biromantic asexual.

Second, you couldn’t even reblog this to my reblog and that’s very telling; I mean if you’re going to try and throw hands and call me a sociopath, the least you could do is have the decency to do so directly to my face.

Third, how does daring to question the legitimate erasure and hatred aimed at cishet LGBTQA (or more specifically in this case, cishet aces) make me a sociopath?? It doesn’t even make any sense; a sociopath is person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience (though that’s literally just what I got off of Wikipedia so y’all can correct me if I’m wrong and/or not defining it properly and in detail). I’m just confused by what you’re trying to do here.

And fourth, are you really so THREATENED by this tiny little reblog of mine that you feel the need to call me crazy and drag me this way? Honestly I’ll admit I’m kind doing the same thing here with this whole long ass post at a simple three word response, but I’m not out to insult @phoenixwrightprobono. I’m not here to drag them or harrass them or call them out or cancel them or whatever. That’s just feeding the problem.

What I’m trying to do is call out how very emblematic this type of post, this type of behavior, and this line of thinking is of the exact point that op was making in the first place:

The exclusion and erasure of certain parts of LGBTQA+ because they “aren’t enough”, or because they’re “way too much”.

I’ve seen this happen countless times on this site (and beyond) and in countless ways.

It’s often shrouded in excuses about how they’re not valid because “they don’t face oppression” or because “they can pass as straight”. The latter is especially stupid because the idea of passing as straight is literally just being in the closest. It’s literally that. There are gays and lesbians and bisexuals and enbys and trans people who don’t act or speak or dress or look they way that society at large expects them to look; they might not be walk and talk in an overtly flamboyant manner, they might not dress in rainbow colors, they might not have “mannish hands and an Adam’s apple” or “too feminine a face for a man”. To say that those who can “pass for straight” aren’t valid is so utterly offensive and reductive. And on the topic of oppression, I’ll say it: it’s an honest fact that being a cis biromantic asexual male means I don’t face the level of oppression that others face. I very much can’t compare to the discrimination that a lot of people in the queer community have faced; I’m not trying to. But I’m going to say something that I think a lot of people haven’t realized: it’s not a competition.

This isn’t the trauma olympics. Het trans women aren’t placing themselves as more important than lesbian, bi, and pan trans women simply by existing, asexuals aren’t gonna take away LGBT resources from people who need them simply by existing. And in fact the “you aren’t valid because you don’t face the oppression that etcera does” argument is problematic and adds to a hellish cycle that really doesn’t benefit anyone. For example I could say the problems of a white gay cis male aren’t as bad as the discrimination against black trans women, which is technically true, and attack and harrass the person who advocates for that. But I don’t. Harassing someone who complains about this doesn’t help black trans women. It doesn’t end transphobia.

It doesn’t stop oppression. It only perpetuates the problem.

And imma say it: ASEXUALS DO FACE A WHOLE LOT OF HATE.

Most of it is invisible but it happens. It’s in the “oh you’re valid but not LGBTQ” even though we’ve been in the community since the 70s. It’s in the reduction and erasure of asexual characters, like Jughead and aromantic asexual Alastair from Hazbin Hotel (I remember especially seeing on Twitter a bunch of peeps get super mad about it, or literally outright saying that they wish he was gay instead so their ship could work, as if there aren’t sex positive or neutral aces and aros). And it’s in the ironic harassment and statements about how “aces aren’t valid cause they don’t face harm or trauma”, despite the fact that harassing people is harmful and traumatic, sending DEATH THREATS to MINORS is harmful and traumatic, and a lot of other things that ace discourse and exclusionists keep doing is harmful and traumatic.

In the end it doesn’t fucking matter who’s more valid or who’s more oppressed. All of that is just keeping us away from getting shit done. So fuck terfs, fuck transphobes, fuck ace discourse, and fuck exclusionists. If you’re ready to stop going after people for stupid reasons and ignoring the big picture, we can move on the real fucked system that perpetuates and festers hate and discrimination and destroy it.

Revolutionize the world and make a better one for everyone.

for real why do you all hate straight trans people. do u just like. not like them so that u can keep saying ‘gay’ when u mean lgbt without thinking about the large part of the community you’re excluding??

like you all rush to say stuff like “no straights in MY [insert media here]” because u think being lgbt = being gay, and u r just like… constantly forget about the T. then when someone says something you’re like “they’re all trans!! but… they’re also all gay” like being trans and straight is like Lgbt Lite or something lmao

[potential-zine-blog]

Why is “genderbending”  problematic?

The answer to this is quite long. I’m going to make a list version, and include an essay like the version at the bottom of this post. Please, at the very least, read the list version!

DISCLAIMER: Even though this conversation was inspired by an incident on discord, I AM NOT singling anyone out. Instead, I’m hoping to hold a conversation I should’ve had a long time ago (and educate people in the process). 

ZINE POLICY:  Due to my own discomfort with genderbends and the discomfort of multiple other creators, genderbends will be not be allowed in the zine. This decision was difficult for me to make because I really don’t like saying “no, you can’t do that.” 

Genderbends are problematic because:

-it enforces the idea of (switching) genders/there only being 2 genders, which in turn invalidates non-binary gender identities (side note: I, the mod, am non-binary/genderfluid)

-it often involves giving male characters breasts/changing bodies - this makes it seem as though physical traits and gender are the same thing WHEN THEY ARE NOT

-I sort of already mentioned this but it enforces the “there are opposite genders” which ignores the fact that gender is a spectrum 

-it often makes characters hyper-masculine/hyper-feminine and tends to not include varying body types (what I’d like to call Barbie Doll syndrome)

-it seems to focus on cis people, with the “bending” changing characters to be cismale or cisfemale

-genderbend characters tend to be hypersexualized

-they tend to enforce gender stereotypes

On ‘Genderbending’ 

source:

 http://viria.tumblr.com/post/116908105638/kagemxneon-genderbending-lately-ive-been

Lately I’ve been seeing people discuss why ‘genderbending’ isn’t transphobic, or why it’s something that’s fine and should be accepted. Most of the people who have been discussing this are cis, which is an issue right off the bat, so I’m going to preface this post by saying that if you are not trans, you do not have the right to determine what is or is not transphobic. Full. Stop. So if you’re cis, and your first instinct is to argue with me on this, I would like for you to consider why you believe that you can recognize transphobia better than someone who is routinely subject to it. That being said, let’s get into this.

To start off, what is ‘genderbending?’ Most fansites will define it as the act of ‘switching’ a character’s gender, but there’s already an issue with this. ‘Genderbending’, or ‘rule 63’ as is called in some circles, it not just about switching a character’s gender, it is about changing that character’s body as well. I have yet to see a ‘genderbent’ version of a male character who lacked breasts and a dfab body. This the first and most obvious reason why ‘genderbending’ is inherently transphobic - it assumes that physical traits and gender are the same thing, and that you cannot be female without also being dfab. This is cissexism, and this is transphobic. The message that ‘genderbending’ says is that you must have breasts and a vagina to be female, and you must have a penis and a flat chest to be male. I should not have to explain why that message is transphobic.

However, the way ‘genderbends’ are carried out also has distinctly transphobic implications in how it switches out the physical traits of characters to make them ‘the opposite gender’ ( the notion of there being ‘opposite genders’ is some fresh bullshit that I’ll cover later in this post ). For example, by giving a male character breasts and curves when ‘genderbending’ him, the message is clear that this character was cis to begin with. ‘Genderbending’ inherently implies that all characters are cisgender by default, and erases any possibility of these characters being trans. This is not as overtly transphobic as the first point, but it is harmful to trans people within fandom spaces, as the assumption that all characters are cis until explicitly stated otherwise pushes us out of media and removes whatever representation we might try to make for ourselves.

The third issue with ‘genderbending’ is that it is always cis male <—> cis female, and nothing else. I have never seen people ‘genderbend’ characters by making them nonbinary or intersex. I have never seen a genderbend of a female character which made her a trans male instead. ‘Genderbending’ implies that there are only two options when it comes to gender: cis male and cis female. There is no such thing as nonbinary people within this ideology. Intersex people are laughable at best. Agender people are little better than a distant myth. ‘Genderbending’ ignores that it is impossible to make a character ‘the opposite gender’, because there is no such thing as an ‘opposite gender’. Gender is a spectrum, not a binary, but you wouldn’t know that from the way fandom spaces treat it.

Of course, there are some reasons for ‘genderbending’ cis male characters into cis females that will always get brought up in discussions on the politics of ‘genderbending.’ The most frequent is that cis girls, who only see themselves as one-dimensional characters in media, want to have characters like them who are just as multifaceted and developed as the male characters that we are given, so they make their male faves female to give themselves the representation they desire. This is a decent reason for ‘genderbending’, but it does not excuse the fact that the way in which ‘genderbending’ is done is inherently transphobic, and it gives fans yet another excuse to ignore female characters in favor of focusing on their male faves.

Another reason for ‘genderbending’ that I’ve heard is ‘it’s for the sake of character exploration - like, what if this character had been born as male/female instead?’ This excuse is cissexist and transphobic from first blush. The idea behind it is that someone ‘born as female’, aka with breasts/vagina will automatically be a cis female, allowing fans to explore what that character’s life would have been like if they were female. Why not explore the possibility of a character being designated female at birth, but still identifying as male? Why do you need a character to be cis for you to find their personality and life interesting to explore? Why do you automatically reject the notion of your fave being trans? If you want to explore what it would have been like for your male fave to have struggled with sexism, consider them being a trans woman, or a closeted dfab trans person.

As a closing statement, I want to make one thing very clear. ‘Genderbending’ does harm trans people. It perpetuates dangerous cissexist notions and the idea of a gender binary being a valid construct, erases nonbinary and intersex people, and others trans people. These are what we call microaggressions - they are not as dangerous as outright harassment and assault, but they enforce and support a system and ideology in which we are other, and we are worthy of hate and violence because we do not fit in.

‘Genderbending’ is a transphobic practice, and if you engage in it, you need to be aware of and acknowledge this.

SOME CREATORS HAVE MENTIONED OTHER IMPORTANT REASONS ON DISCORD! Although I think this post sums them up pretty well...

[bubbelpop2]

"but but I don't mean ALL men OBVIOUSLY"

I don't care. Block me. Don't interact with this post. I hate you. Stop talking over trans men and ALMs.

Not only is "I hate men" attacking an entire group of people, it doesn't help the problem. It isn't activism. It doesn't do anything to hurt the patriarchy. In fact, it helps cement it into place. The amount of damage it does outweighs the "haha men r dumb" joke.

It absolves individual men from blame because "that's just how they are" (why aren't we cancelling sexist, rapey pigs on reddit? We hold them to a different and lower standard of behavior.)

It perpetuates hopelessness in young men, believing that they'll grow up to be like their abusive fathers, or that they'll never be good no matter how much they try to improve themselves, so they just shouldn't try to at all.

It actively harms trans men. It makes us hate ourselves for being men. For being "traitors" to womankind. You're literally helping to spread terf ideaology.

It actively is used as a weapon against trans women by Terfs. If you don't fucking use terf rhetoric, their arguments will have a lot less weight. Don't fucking spread terf rhetoric.

It actively makes people who are attracted to men hate themselves. You have no idea how many queer and bi and pan children I see that feel bad or feel like they have to apologize for being attracted to men. That's not okay. That's terrible what the fuck

To say "I hate men" is to lump in single hard-working fathers that love their children, sihk men who work to help every minority, trans men, teens, children, and every kind men that has ever lived, with literal actual rapists and sexist creeps that live in the deep recesses of obscure communities.

Criticize toxic masculinity and the patriarchy instead of perpetuating them by making people feel like they're inherrently violent and will never change. BOTH of those things are untrue. Humans are not inherrently violent creatures. Violence and hatred are taught.

"B.. but! Men would literally never do the same for us! They wouldn't stop saying "I hate women!"

First of all, any man or largely male community I have ever been a part of that wasn't filled with incels (IE: Normal men. Yes, incels aren't fucking normal and their behavior shouldn't be normalized outside of their communities) has never had that problem. Screenshots of 4chan and incel communities are not representation for men as a whole. At all.

Stop saying "men" as in, men in general, and start holding individuals accountable for being shitty human beings. Nobody should say "I hate (an entire group of people)" ever. For any reason.

"men make me uncomfortable" is completely valid. Trauma is lasting, and even though society is advancing in terms of making sexism unacceptable, it's still rational to be afraid of men.

Advocate for schools to provide more emotional support and anti-bullying policies. Parenting classes men are required to go to. Home-ec. Advocate for the normalization of not feminizing and belittling men for being kind, weak, or scared.

Feminism is about equality. It's about making sure that everyone, regardless of gender, is treated equally. Men suffer under sexism and sexnormativity too.

The amount of people that don't think that they can be victims of rape or abuse in relationships is fucking disgusting. A girl could literally be hitting and screaming at her boyfriend in public and nobody would fucking do anything. The amount of toxic masculinity (that is perpetuated by people of ALL genders) that contributes to male suicide rates and the overall rate of depression is awful.

"but sexism is still a problem and it's largely perpeted BY men!"

Literally nobody is saying sexism doesn't exist :/ reaching ass we're saying that nobody should say that they hate an entire gendered group. Literally nobody. Both sides. Feminism is about equality and bringing EVERYONE up to a higher standard of respecting everybody. Just because some men do the equivalent doesn't make it okay for you to do the same.

Children should not hate themselves for being men. ALM should not hate themselves for loving men. Trans men should not hate themselves for being men.

Just stop. It costs zero dollars not to make men, ALMs, and literal actual children and teenagers insecure and not spit terf rhetoric.

Anyways if you say "I hate men" unfollow and block me I hate you.

[eilikes]

@suck-it-pence-im-gay-and-proud this post and the entire reblog thread is a dumpster fire, holy fuck.

We don't call people out for "having the wrong experiences" at all. We call people out for perpetuating the "no dysphoria still equals trans" bullshit that not only harms the trans community, but also hurts the tucutes spouting this bs themselves.

I mean, nice try, but we can see that strawman from a mile away.

First:

Many truscum acknowledge that not all trans people experience dysphoria the same way - most of them agree that dysphoria can range from being very mild and not affecting the person very much all the way up to being severe and dangerous to the person themselves.

They agree some people are a bit more dysphoric about their top than their bottom or the other way around or equally as bad for both.

They agree that not everyone is going to be immediately aware of their dysphoria, or know what it is that they're experiencing or be comfortable with admitting to having dysphoria - whether to themselves or other people.

A lot of them understand that the experience of gender dysphoria is different and no two people will have the exact same experiences.

What they do NOT understand or tolerate is the spreading of the idea that you don't need gender dysphoria to be trans:

Because this creates the idea that being trans is just a show some people put on to get attention - that the severe dysphoria that some people have experienced that was so crippling that is has driven them to extremes and even to suicide was all just an act.

It creates the idea that trans people can just choose to be trans and can also stop being trans whenever they wish.

It invalidates all the effort and research that has been done on transgenderism and gender dysphoria - things like research into brain sex and its link to gender dysphoria which has become a big part of figuring out how to both effectively identify and help treat transgender people in a way that will do them the least harm.

It discourages the need for further research into transgenderism as a neurological condition, including the effects it may have, symptoms that indicate it and treatments that go with it.

It demedicalizes transgenderism and not only makes it harder for trans people to get the help and treatment they need, but it invalidates the need for treatment entirely.

It makes treatment itself look cool and fun and turns it into a game. The treatment for gender dysphoria is transitioning and it isn't a small thing - it's serious. Taking testosterone or estrogen has many effects on the body and a lot of the effects can and likely will be permanent. Then there is surgery - literally having your body cut up. For trans people this is done to alleviate the stress and effects of their dysphoria but on cis people who were actually just confused this is a major step that can ruin their bodies, their self esteem afd their lives.

It makes the trans community look like a joke and makes possible allies turn away from the community.

It causes real trans people with dysphoria to question the validity of what they experience.

It becomes especially dangerous when cis people that subscribe to this idea attempt to get treatment for a problem they never had. When they transition - go on T/E or get top or bottom surgery etc - they are causing irreparable damage to their bodies and their minds. This has caused a lot of them to actually develop gender dysphoria in response to transitioning unnecessarily. Some of these people come out of this experience bitter. Some develop a hate for the trans community. Some become terfs.

There ya go, an outline of what truscum actually do and don't believe in with the reasons behind it.

Nothing to do with policing trans people based on their experiences.

Everything to do with shutting down the "no dysphoria" mentality that is harming the trans community.

I can understand that there must be a few assholes in the community that are guilty of this. I'm absolutely certain we have bad apples like any other community does.

But implying all truscum act exactly the same and all of them are tying to police trans people based on comparison of experiences basically means that you're defining the whole community just by looking at a few people within it.

You are implying that anyone who is truscum or follows the truscum belief that dysphoria is needed to be trans is automatically a trans-policing asshole by default regardless of what they have said or done in the past. And that they are automatically transphobic.

But I mean, hey, guess who stated that they believe dysphoria is necessary to be trans. Fucking hilarious.

"always unacceptable to say you know someone's identity more than they do"

I guess digigender and dollgender and all the other mogai genders are all now completely valid and acceptable too. Good to know you support the validity of emoji genders, I guess.

And please DO explain which standards and stereotypes us truscum seem to compare everyone with. I'm still wondering on that one.

Also, what are you even trying to say with the whole "cis psychologists" thing?

Are you talking about the initial research about gender dysphoria and the link to trans people? Because no one decides anything in research. They experiment or observe and then they document the results or findings they observed. They didn't decide beforehand what results they wanted. They just observed and took notice. You know, like research.

If you mean the people who now have to diagnose people as being trans according to the criteria found in the research - those people have studied for close to a decade(some far longer than that) to be able to do the work they do.

They have a work process they must follow through with, they have people they report to and they are held accountable for the actions they take.

Yes, they do first have to examine the person and question them and make sure the person is honest about being trans aka having gender dysphoria because the treatment that is given afterwards is specifically for gender dysphoria. If the psychologists diagnose someone incorrectly and that person goes through with hormones and surgery, only to realise they never had dysphoria, the psychologist is responsible.

But on top of all of that, these people can't just do whatever they like. They have to record the symptoms you mention and talk with you about it and if they refuse to diagnose you, they have to provide the reasons for it to their higher ups. They can't just decide "well I don't like this person so I decide they aren't trans". They are monitored and must explain themselves.

Also, where did the standards get cheated, exactly? You keep bitching about "fake-ass standards" but you never explain what you mean.

All in all, you contradict yourself multiple times in here. You also pull a pretty hypocritical move by claiming you can't lump all trans people into one stereotype/standard while then proceeding to lump all truscum into one stereotype/standard.

Telling people they're stupid or can't read doesn't make you smarter.

If you talk shit on the internet, people will respond and they will argue their own points. It isn't harassment. It doesn't require them to be mad. It doesn't mean they have no self control. Also, you've responded to them just as they've responded to you and by your logic you are also just angry with poor self control so...shape up, bud.

No one owes you basic etiquette online - they actually don't owe you anything at all.

In conclusion, try again next time.

I’m sorry, but truscums are mostly gross people.

Like, I get the transmedicalist opinion of needing dysphoria to be trans because I personally don’t understand how you can figure out you’re trans otherwise (I’m open to explanation though) but if your “opinion” is that you get to decide who’s trans enough based on their experiences compared to yours or some goddamn stereotype, you’re a gross person. Not everyone’s experience is the same, not everyone figures out they’re trans the same way. Being the Trans Police helps no one, not even you. It just makes the trans community hated even more because we’re pushing other trans people out because of some fake-ass standards.

You’re disgusting and transphobic. Especially cis truscum. You don’t get to decide our identities for us.

[bubbelpop2]

"but but I don't mean ALL men OBVIOUSLY"

I don't care. Block me. Don't interact with this post. I hate you. Stop talking over trans men and ALMs.

Not only is "I hate men" attacking an entire group of people, it doesn't help the problem. It isn't activism. It doesn't do anything to hurt the patriarchy. In fact, it helps cement it into place. The amount of damage it does outweighs the "haha men r dumb" joke.

It absolves individual men from blame because "that's just how they are" (why aren't we cancelling sexist, rapey pigs on reddit? We hold them to a different and lower standard of behavior.)

It perpetuates hopelessness in young men, believing that they'll grow up to be like their abusive fathers, or that they'll never be good no matter how much they try to improve themselves, so they just shouldn't try to at all.

It actively harms trans men. It makes us hate ourselves for being men. For being "traitors" to womankind. You're literally helping to spread terf ideaology.

It actively is used as a weapon against trans women by Terfs. If you don't fucking use terf rhetoric, their arguments will have a lot less weight. Don't fucking spread terf rhetoric.

It actively makes people who are attracted to men hate themselves. You have no idea how many queer and bi and pan children I see that feel bad or feel like they have to apologize for being attracted to men. That's not okay. That's terrible what the fuck

To say "I hate men" is to lump in single hard-working fathers that love their children, sihk men who work to help every minority, trans men, teens, children, and every kind men that has ever lived, with literal actual rapists and sexist creeps that live in the deep recesses of obscure communities.

Criticize toxic masculinity and the patriarchy instead of perpetuating them by making people feel like they're inherrently violent and will never change. BOTH of those things are untrue. Humans are not inherrently violent creatures. Violence and hatred are taught.

"B.. but! Men would literally never do the same for us! They wouldn't stop saying "I hate women!"

First of all, any man or largely male community I have ever been a part of that wasn't filled with incels (IE: Normal men. Yes, incels aren't fucking normal and their behavior shouldn't be normalized outside of their communities) has never had that problem. Screenshots of 4chan and incel communities are not representation for men as a whole. At all.

Stop saying "men" as in, men in general, and start holding individuals accountable for being shitty human beings. Nobody should say "I hate (an entire group of people)" ever. For any reason.

"men make me uncomfortable" is completely valid. Trauma is lasting, and even though society is advancing in terms of making sexism unacceptable, it's still rational to be afraid of men.

Advocate for schools to provide more emotional support and anti-bullying policies. Parenting classes men are required to go to. Home-ec. Advocate for the normalization of not feminizing and belittling men for being kind, weak, or scared.

Feminism is about equality. It's about making sure that everyone, regardless of gender, is treated equally. Men suffer under sexism and sexnormativity too.

The amount of people that don't think that they can be victims of rape or abuse in relationships is fucking disgusting. A girl could literally be hitting and screaming at her boyfriend in public and nobody would fucking do anything. The amount of toxic masculinity (that is perpetuated by people of ALL genders) that contributes to male suicide rates and the overall rate of depression is awful.

"but sexism is still a problem and it's largely perpeted BY men!"

Literally nobody is saying sexism doesn't exist :/ reaching ass we're saying that nobody should say that they hate an entire gendered group. Literally nobody. Both sides. Feminism is about equality and bringing EVERYONE up to a higher standard of respecting everybody. Just because some men do the equivalent doesn't make it okay for you to do the same.

Children should not hate themselves for being men. ALM should not hate themselves for loving men. Trans men should not hate themselves for being men.

Just stop. It costs zero dollars not to make men, ALMs, and literal actual children and teenagers insecure and not spit terf rhetoric.

Anyways if you say "I hate men" unfollow and block me I hate you.