#st and conformity

[aemiron-main]

the st soundtrack choices and the way that they’re edited and incorporated are fucking genius seriously you guys it ties into the narrative and queerness and other themes so well and also if you enjoy my gay mike analysis you’re def gonna want to read this imo

if i ever start talking about the ST song choices and their relationship to songs/song choices regarding songs that are seemingly pro-protest and anti-conformity but are actually still safe enough to still enforce the norm and have  been ACTIVELY USED by conservative politicians to give the appearance of counterculture and rebellion while still upholding and enforcing the norm while giving their supporters the illusion of rebellion and freedom, and how oppressors like to frame themselves as the underdogs and how not only do oppressors/rightwingers want to squash counterculture music and expression but also will actively steal and twist it to make it reinforce the norm and fit their agenda, i Will Not Stop talking about it, like once that can of worms is opened it is uncloseable sorry. 

yes i am staring DIRECTLY at “raise a little hell” being used for steve’s party which is tied to conformity and seems like rebellion but actually isn’t rebellion (like how jonathan talks about how nancy is just a suburban girl who thinks she’s rebelling but is actually just doing the same thing as other suburban girls)  yes i am staring DIRECTLY at ‘rock you like a hurricane’ and ‘shout at the devil’ and ‘the four horsemen’ and billy, somebody who sees himself as counterculture and rock and roll but in reality is using rock and roll to reinforce dated, bigoted beliefs and promote hatred. and how all of those songs, despite all being rock songs, occupy different subcultures and tie into politics and culture in very different ways.  like they didn’t do this accidentally, this pattern of songs is constant and it’s backed up by scenes like what i mentioned with steve and jonathan and nancy and conformity. and thats why i have a LOT TO SAY ABOUT THE SONG CHOICES IN S4 RELATIVE TO S4′S THEMES OF ANTI CONFORMITY AND HOW WE HAVE TO LOOK PAST THE SURFACE AND JUST ARGHHHHH  like i remember seeing a genius quote about it in an article awhile back (not abt st specifically but about the phenomena of how conservatives and those who want to maintain the norm use rock and roll and previously counter-culture efforts in order to twist it and enforce the norm): 

“rock n roll isn’t dead, rock n roll is alive and wants tax cuts for the rich” it’s not just limited to rock and roll though, pop songs that are deemed to be nostalgic and counterculture are used in that way too (even if they actually ARE counterculture and QUEER TOO, they get twisted), specifically Rise Up by Parachute Club comes to mind, which isn’t in st, but similar songs ARE and thats why im so excited to analyze them, because Rise Up was thought to be a queer anthem but was used WITHOUT PERMISSION as the theme for the United Alternative convention (a canadian rightwing convention) and im certain that there’s other pop and rock songs in ST that have similar things that have happened to them, in addition to the ones that i’ve already mentioned  imo this ties into why we don’t HEAR any really harsh metal etc. it’s not an accident. there’s a REASON why metal doesn’t play for eddie until his scene at the end and also why they chose master of puppets specifically and how rock music is literally constantly used as a puppet to reinforce the norm under the guise of rebellion and how EDDIE STILL DIED DESPITE HIS REBELLION and how master of puppets is also about drug use and how people think that they’re in control/the master but they’re actually the puppet of their addiction just like how people often think that they’re being counterculture and progressive but they’re actually reinforcing the norm (see: billy)  and reason this ties into why we hear a KISS song during the hellfire game instead of a dio song or an iron maiden song or any of the more harsh metal songs that eddie is CLEARLY A FAN OF, ones that LITERALLY HAVE FUCKING SONGS ABOUT WIZARDS AND DND RELATED THINGS but they didnt use that but they DID use ‘detroit rock city’ but they CUT THE SUBSTANCE OUT OF IT JUST LIKE HOW CONSERVATIVES CUT THE SUBSTANCE AND COUNTERCULTURE OUT OF SONGS WHEN THEY TWIST THEM FOR THEIR OWN NARRATIVE, because they cut out the intro of detroit rock city where a radio broadcast plays talking about a boy in a car crash AND they cut out the car crash at the end. and this ties into what im saying about cutting the substance out of it because without the context, the song just seems like it’s about rock and roll and having a fun time and a guy recklessly driving to a concert. but WITH the context, we learn that the guy that the song is talking about, the one driving recklessly to a concert, IS THE ONE WHO THE RADIO BROADCAST IS TALKING ABOUT, THE ONE WHO DIED. because we hear the CRASH AT THE END. but the show didn’t include the radio broadcast OR the crash!! because THEY LITERALLY REMOVED THE DANGER and the SUBSTANCE OF THE SONG THEY REMOVED THE FULL CONTEXT, JUST LIKE THE CONSERVATIVES, THE SHOW USED IT TO SUPPORT THEIR OWN NARRATIVE AND NOT SHOW US THE FULL PICTURE/NOT MAKE US AWARE OF THE DANEGR (THE DANGER BEING A.) HOMOPHOBIA AND CONFORMITY BUT ALSO B.) THE LITERAL DANGER OF VECNA AND HOW WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DND GAME MIRRORS WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WITH HENRY/VECNA BUT HOW WE DONT REALIZE IT BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMS LIKE A GAME. and THAT’S just like how the GA sees dnd and the dnd arc in s4 as being JUST about the game, as JUST hearing ‘detroit rock city’ without the context and thinking it’s just about a guy going to a concert, not realizing that it’s about his DEATH AS A RESULT OF THAT CONCERT, just like how the dnd and hellfire arc in s4 it was NEVER just about dnd, it’s about queerness and the aids crisis and homophobia too.  Just like how the satanic panic was NEVER JUST ABOUT DND but the media and conservatives manipulated the rhetoric to make it seem like they were just scared of the game. It was about hating outcasts, upholding the norm, homophobia, and all forms of bigotry. It was about control and maintaining the norm, anti-conformity.  and this lack of use of actual metal music up until master of puppets also ties into how rock music and metal specifically was demonized in the satanic panic and how while people could see eddie as being counterculture and would demonize metal music, they never actually take the time to get to know him just like how they never actually take the time to listen to metal music. because just like how if they took the time to get to know eddie, they’d realize he isn’t evil, the same applies with metal music. and this sounds like im pulling stuff out of my ass but this is why eddie mentions ozzy osbourne to steve and that’s why steve narratively doesnt know who ozzy osbourne is.  it’s not just a random scene, the purpose of this scene is to tie “not getting to know/listen to eddie” to “not getting to know/listen to metal”- why? because OZZY OSBOURNE AND BLACK SABBATH IS LITERALLY KNOWN FOR HAVING VERY POSITIVE MESSAGES ABOUT PEACE AND LOVE AND KINDNESS AND ANTI-WAR IN THEIR SONGS. BUT PEOPLE CAN’T SEE PAST THE HARSH METAL OF IT TO ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE MUSIC. JUST LIKE HOW THEY CAN’T SEE PAST EDDIE’S APPEARANCE AND GET TO KNOW HIM. Steve doesn’t *know* who ozzy osbourne is, just like he doesn’t know eddie, just like how people don’t know metal music, just like how people make baseless assumptions about both of them.  THIS IS ALSO WHY WE SEE STEVE BITING A  BAT, JUST LIKE EDDIE MENTIONS OZZY DOING: BECAUSE STEVE AND OZZY ARENT THAT DIFFERENT, BLACK SABBATH AND THE BEATLES ARENT THAT DIFFERENT, MUCH OF THE CORE MESSAGE IS THE SAME, MESSAGES OF LOVE AND PEACE AND ANTI WAR.This is why we don’t hear ‘real’ metal music in s4 until the end, with master of puppets, because people aren’t seeing eddie for who he is, people, the audience, literally aren’t hearing the music until the end, people don’t see eddie for what he is (a good person and a hero) until he is dead. Just like how people NOW see the fact that black sabbath is full of good messaging, but didn’t see it at the time (which also ties into how black sabbath HAS been used in present-day to reinforce the norm). And all of this ties into ‘shout at the devil’ too, and how Billy and so many people at the party but esp Billy and his character, don’t realize what the song is actually about (motley crue talking about how ‘hey i mean technically this supports you christian folk, because it’s shout AT the devil, not WITH the devil,’  but how that’s rooted in sarcasm because the rightwing christians don’t realize that THEY are the devil, just like Lucas’ ‘normal’s just a raging psychopath’ quote, they don’t realize that their ‘normalcy’ IS the hatred) and then ALSO how ‘shout at the devil’ has been repurposed by nostalgic rightwingers trying to reinforce the norm while thinking that they’re rebelling (ie, again, those rightwingers think that they’re the victims, that they’re shouting at the devil, not realizing that they ARE the devil.)  Just like how black sabbath’s messaging of peace and love but also taking action and even violence against hatred WAS counterculture, because the current culture is hatred, so love is the real counterculture. Just like how I’ve talked about before, having a happy ending for the queer characters is the most counter-culture thing that the show could do, more counter culture and shocking than any violent bury your gays death could possibly ever be, because those circumstances are the NORM, queer success and joy and happiness is the real counterculture.  and how we DID hear metal music with Billy in previous seasons, with him listening to Metallica, but how that’s tied to the fact that BILLY is the one not hearing the music, ignoring the counterculture reality of the lyrics and instead continuing to conform with misogyny and racism and homophobia and heternormativity, he sees hatred as counterculture which is not true because the current norm and culture is rooted around hatred and bigotry.   and then how THAT and the satanic panic ties into a queer allegory and the aids crisis panic and how the music choices circle back to that and how the oppressors tend to see themselves as the oppressed and position themselves as victims (cough Jason cough and cough catholic victim complex cough and the people pushing the satanic panic acting as if they were the ones being being targeted when in reality they were the ones targeting others and how during the aids crisis, homophobes etc saw themselves as the victim of ‘the predatory gays trying to give them aids’ instead of seeing the aids victims as the victims and how it ALL TIES TOGETHER and how VECNA SEES HIMSELF AS THE VICTIM WHEN HE’S THE OPPRESSOR HE SEES HIMSELF AS SAVING PEOPLE AND HAVING BEEN VICTIMIZED WHEN HE IS THE ONE VICTIMIZING PEOPLE!!!!!

AND HOW ALL OF THESE BIG THEMES TIE INTO THE CYCLE OF ABUSE IN A BIG WAY BUT ALSO IN A MORE PERSONALIZED AND SMALLER SCALE WAY WITH ABUSERS SEEING THEMSELVES SOLELY AS VICTIMS AND CONTINUING TO PERPETUATE THAT ABUSE. EVEN LONNIE POSITIONS HIMSELF AS THE VICTIM IN A ROUNDABOUT WAY WHEN IT COMES TO WILL’S DEATH, WANTING TO COLLECT MONEY AS ONE OF THE ‘VICTIMS’ OF THE QUARRY’S NEGLECT/WILL’S DEATH. MEANWHILE, LONNIE WAS THE ABUSER TO WILL, LONNIE WAS THE ONE WHO HURT WILL. BUT HE POSITIONS HIMSELF AS A VICTIM, JUST LIKE HE DOES WITH JOYCE AND JONATHAN, WHEN HE’S TALKING TO JONATHAN IN S1, HE TALKS ABOUT “maybe i’m not the bad guy,” and how JOYCE is the problem. Abusers and oppressors positioning themselves as victims is a constant theme in ST and it only makes sense that it would be reflected in the music, which is why i DONT think that i’m looking too far into it with this writeup!!  and yes this also ties into the s3 trailer baba o riley remix LIKE GOD I NEED TO WORK ON MY ST MUSIC ANALYSIS I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY and how theres a reason why they use certain songs from the 70s vs the 80s and themes of nostalgia but also of using that nostalgia to reinforce the norm of heteronormative, conservative and hateful beliefs.  and i also have a LOT TO SAY ABOUT THE SONG CHOICES FOR WILL AND JONATHAN AND THOSE SONGS BEING USED IN A GENUINELY COUNTERCULTURE WAY WITH WILL BEING GAY AND JONATHAN BEING AN OUTCAST AND HOW BEING COUNTERCULTURE ISNT ABOUT WHAT YOU LISTEN TO BUT ABOUT WHO YOU ARE AND HOW EVEN THOUGH SHOULD I STAY OR SHOULD I GO IS ONE OF THOSE SONGS THAT  *HAS* BEEN USED BY THE RIGHTWING TO REINFORCE THE NORM, THE *WAY* THAT ITS USED AND PRESENTED IN ST AND IS LITERALLY ONLY EVER USED IN SITUATIONS WHERE THE CHARACTERS CAN HEAR THE SONG VERSUS OTHER SONGS LIKE ‘ROCK ME LIKE A HURRICANE’ THAT ARE USED IN A WAY THAT CHARACTERS CANT HEAR THEM AND SO ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT THE SONG IS SO MUCH AS IT IS THE ACTIONS TIED TO IT AND HOW ITS BEING USED AND HOW THAT LITERALLY APPLIES TO HOW THE SHOW USES IT BUT ALSO  HOW IT GETS USED IRL AND HOW EVEN SONGS THAT ARE GENUINELY COUNTERCULTURE GET STOLEN AND USED TO REINFORCE THE NORM AND HOW SONGS THAT WERENT INTENDED TO BE COUNTERCULTURE CAN BECOME COUNTERCULTURE AND AND AND  JUST ARGHHH I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS AND ALSO HOW WE HAVE SONGS *ABOUT* ROCK AND ROLL BUT ARE LACKING IN ACTUALLY GETTING TO HEAR THOSE ROCK AND ROLL SONGS THEMSELVES Regarding songs that are about rock and roll but not actually really rock and roll songs, I am staring DIRECTLY at you, ‘rock and roll hoochie koo’ and ‘rock me amadeus’ in s4 and even ‘detroit rock city’ which sure its a rock song but its also ABOUT ROCK, we get more songs ABOUT ROCK than we do ROCK SONGS and even with detroit rock city, like i said, they REMOVE THE CONTEXT, and it’s very interesting to me, especially with the rock song, ‘play with me’ by extreme that plays when mike is looking for dnd players and how that ties into my gay mike analysis- sorry not sorry- and into the themes of conformity for mike but explicitly how those themes tie into him being GAY, not just that he’s affected by conformity, because he IS affected by it in multiple ways outside of his sexuality, but it’s also explicitly tied TO him being gay and how just like the dnd arc was never just about dnd/games and is also about homophobia and queerness AND how games/dnd has been tied to mike and will’s sexualities and relationships, the song ‘play with me’ is not just about games/mike trying to find people to play games with, it’s also about mike trying to figure out his sexuality/who he wants to be with/’play’ with (be in a relationship with/who he’s attracted to.  and that’s why we get so much ‘mike doesn’t like women’ imagery in those scenes but ALSO more ‘mike DOES like men’ imagery in those scenes and in the van scene with ‘boy’ behind his head whereas in previous seasons the imagery was more focused on ‘mike doesn’t like women’ and how a lot of his attraction towards men in previous seasons was directed towards Will Specifically rather than acknowledging his attraction to men as whole (ie in S4, he has the word ‘boy’ beside his head instead of the word ‘will’ behind him or something representing Will, whereas in s3, we see things representing Will Specifically rather than boys as a whole, things like the Will the Wise drawing beside Mike’s head when he’s making out with El in the bedroom) but now in s4, mike is coming to terms more with his attraction to men as a whole.  and how THAT ties into mike slowly getting over his heteronormativity and internalized homophobia and moving away from just focusing on the heteronormative failure of not being attracted to girls and instead towards his active attraction to men and moving away from viewing everything through that heteronormative lens of seeing everything relative to his attraction to women and through the internalized homophobia lens of being disgusted with himself about his attraction to men (cough sauna scene cough and how im going to show in my gay mike analysis that mike was disgusted with HIMSELF in that scene)  and how mike may be disgusted with himself about his attraction to men but just like how other people/will’s love for mike specifically makes Will feel better/not like a mistake/helps him get over his internalized homophobia, mike’s love for will specifically is what helps him get over his internalized homophobia regarding his active attraction to men, just like how i said, we saw the imagery shift from “attraction to will specifically vs lack of attraction to girls as a whole (rather than lack of attraction to el specifically)” to “attraction to men as a whole specifically in addition to attraction to will and how his attraction to will helped him come to terms with that attraction to men vs still having that lack of attraction to girls as a whole because he’s already come to his realizations about that in s3″ especially with mike’s obvious crush on eddie and how he’s branching out in attraction to men as a whole outside of will because he’s already realized his lack of attraction to girls but is now figuring out his attraction to men in s4 AND how this STILL ties back into how will/mike’s love for will helped him get over his internalized homophobia AND into the music choices in st, because the songs that play during the mike-eddie cafeteria scene are “i was a teenage werewolf” and “fever,” and how long story short the “Teen Wolf” poster in the video store 100% represents Will, especially with ‘Teen Wolf’ literally having a scene where the character comes out as a werewolf but the other person asks them initially if they’re coming out ‘as a fag’ (and theres a million other parallels to will that i could go into but wont for the sake of the length of this post but WILL go into at another time so just take my word for it rn or go look for yourselves at the movie), and so then,  we have “fever,” a song about infatuation that represents mike’s crush on eddie/his sexuality/attraction to men as a whole, but then also ‘I was a teenage werewolf,” a song that TIES THAT ATTRACTION/ABILITY TO COME TO TERMS WITH HIS SEXUALITY to his FEELINGS FOR WILL. It’s not just his crush on eddie that helps him come to terms with it/admit his sexuality for himself, it’s that his feelings for will help him come to terms with his CRUSH ON EDDIE and with his sexualty, since again, like I said, Mike may be able to apply that internalized homophobia hatred to himself, but he CANNOT APPLY IT TO WILL.  And how all of THAT is part of WHY mike seems to go back into the closet (in terms of being out to HIMSELF) at rink o mania/in lenora, why we get ‘in the closet at rink o mania,’ because MIKE IS LITERALLY GOING BACK IN THE CLOSET. because WILL is what makes him feel better about his sexuality, but now that he’s having conflict with will, he’s questioning his sexuality too/his willingness to be out, ESPECIALLY SINCE LIKE I TALKED ABOUT IN ANOTHER POST, HE SEEMS TO THINK THAT WILL TOTALLY HAS A CRUSH ON ANGELA AT RINK O MANIA, SO NOW NOT ONLY IS HE DOUBTING THE IDEA THAT WILL COULD HAVE FEELINGS FOR HIM BUT HES DOUBTING THE IDEA THAT WILL LIKES MEN AT ALL. AND SO IF MIKES LOVE FOR WILL IS TIED TO HIS ABILITY TO BE OPEN WITH HIMSELF ABOUT HIS SEXUALITY AS A WHOLE, THEN WHEN HE FEELS LIKE HE’S LOSING WILL/IT ISNT REQUITED/HE’S WRONG ABOUT THINKING THAT WILL COULD BE GAY, THEN HE STARTS TO DOUBT HIMSELF AND HIS OWN SEXUALITY TOO AND WHETHER OR NOT HE’S ACTUALLY GAY OR IF THERE’S JUST SOMETHING ELSE ‘WRONG’ WITH HIM/IF HIS LACK OF ATTRACTION TO GIRLS COMES FROM SOMETHING ELSE.  AND SO MIKE IS LITERALLY GOING BACK INTO THE CLOSET AT RINK O MANIA HES LITERALLY GOING BACK INTO IT DESPITE THE CLOSET DOOR BEING OPEN IN S4 EP1 DESPITE HOW HE SEEMS MORE LIKE HIMSELF AND PLAYS DND IN HAWKINS BUT THEN TOTALLY CHANGES IN LENORA. He’s BACK in the closet at rink o mania, but started closing the door as soon as he saw will/was gay panicking and having doubts.  And how imo that ties into why we see so much bi imagery at rink o mania, but how I still think that aligns with gay mike and actually plays a key role in backing up what i’ve said here about the connection between mike’s love for will and his ability to get over his internalized homophobia/embrace his attraction to men: because we specifically see WILL in front of the bi imagery more than we do mike: because not only is mike reconsidering his own ability to be out/his own attraction to men, but he’s also reconsidering any suspicions that he may have had about Will being gay, because he seemingly sees Will having a crush on Angela, which i talked about at length in this post, and how like i’ve said before, when you look at the evidence objectively without the context of Will’s sexuality being confirmed, WILL seems like the possibly bi one because his sexuality isn’t nearly as framed around lack of attraction to women as mike’s is- and mike doesn’t have that outside ‘will is gay’ confirmation from noah schnapp/the duffers, so he IS relying on that ‘objective, in-the-show- evidence,’ but actually has even LESS evidence than us for will being gay and not bi, because Mike hasn’t seen things like the conversation between Hopper and Joyce about Lonnie calling Will a fag, he hasn’t seen Will’s pov the way that we have, at rink o mania, he hasn’t seen Will making a painting for him, he didn’t see Will’s reaction at the sauna, there’s so much gay Will imagery that mike HAS NOT SEEN.  He’s seen the homophobic bullying etc though, so he does still have enough to go off to suspect that will could be gay/into men, but he doesn’t have confirmation, and he DEFINITELY hasnt seen a ton of ‘will explicitly doesn’t like women imagery’ because even we are the audience havent seen very much of that, not nearly as much as we’ve seen for mike, which, mike’s own lack of attraction towards women is what he’s going base his analysis of Will off of, and we know that mike has a LOT of scenes where he’s put into a situation where he feels that lack of attraction, whereas not only does will have many, he has EVEN FEWER that mike actually gets to see (ie, the girl in lenora, mike doesn’t see that) which, THAT, imo is why we see the bi imagery at rink o mania, when the two of them are fighting and mike is confused about his sexuality and will’s sexuality, but see way more explicitly gay/not interested in women imagery everywhere else in the show. it’s not that they forgot to put the bi imagery in other scenes and instead their hand slipped and they put explicitly gay/lack of attraction to women imagery. it’s that the bi imagery at rink o mania serves a specific purpose in regards to will and mike’s dynamic and sexualities and trying to figure themselves and eachother out. (not that bi people are just confused but that this is the 80s and that will and mike are trying to figure out labels and mike is trying to figure out if will IS bi and mike is trying to figure out if hes going to continue to try and pretend to  have attraction to women/stay in the closet due to the connection between mike’s relationship with will vs mike’s ability to embrace his own sexuality)  (which, just expanding on that, like i said, mike has seen the homophobia that will’s faced AND mike in s3 feels like he’s seen will having a lack of attraction to girls- the ‘day free of girls’ scene despite the fact that that scene was more about will’s friends ignoring him than it was about will’s attraction to girls, we’re looking at this from mike’s pov- so i think that mike could absolutely have suspicions that will IS gay and that it’s not just random bullying IN ADDITION to his own hopes about his feelings being requited) It’s like how if Lucas was mike’s “straight” guide (mike going to lucas about girls in s3 constantly and letting lucas take the lead and how lucas also pushes mike towards el when making fun of him in 1), then Will is mike’s gay guide LMAO.  It’s not that Mike is only gay if he can be with will/if will is gay: mike is still gay regardless, but it’s about mike’s ability to accept and embrace that gayness. Especially since if Mike is being internally homophobic to himself and believing in the homophobic stereotypes, then he, in his mike brain, has to also apply that hatred/stereotypes to Will, which is where it becomes difficult for mike and why Will is tied to mike’s ability to embrace his sexuality outside of just his love for will specifically.  And how while Mike’s love for will is what helps him get over his internalized homophobia, his platonic love for el is what helps him get over his heteronormativity (he experiences BOTH imo because heteronormativity alone does NOT explain his disgust and shame towards HIMSELF during the sauna scene and how he was the one holding the door open etc etc but thats a topic for the full gay mike analysis) because he’s hurting her as a result of it and doesn’t want to hurt her because he DOES love her platonically and care about her!  And so that’s the thing. Mike’s love for Will is tied to his active attraction to men/his internalized homophobia, whereas his platonic love for El/his relationship with El is what’s tied to heteronormativity. This is also why I don’t believe that Mike has been intentionally using El as a beard all along, because El isn’t narratively connected to the internalized homophobia side of things, she’s connected to the heternormativity side of things.  and how THAT ties into that fact that gay mike works SO WELL with el and her arc and character and how once el finds out that it was never ABOUT HER as a person, that it’s not that mike doesnt LOVE HER but rather that he’s not attracted to girls AT ALL, she’s going to be HAPPIER than if she found out that mike just fell out of love with her for who she is or something about her/that mike chose Will over her. That’s REALLY one of the big things that makes me a gay mike truther is because if he wasn’t gay, El wouldn’t need to be set up the way that she is as a character, wouldn’t need to be set up in such a specific way with a lack of knowledge about homophobia, wouldn’t need to be set up as a character who’s felt inherently unloveable for who she is, wouldn’t need to be set up as being twins with Will/the writers clearly not just wanting to pit them against eachother, wouldn’t need to be set up in a way where BOTH her and mike don’t understand attraction/romance, because if she was a typical straight girl not raised in a lab, she would have a better/even just a more existent understanding of romance and attraction due to the pressures of heteronormativity that results in girls having to face those topics at a young age, and so then, Mike would be the only one in the couple who doesn’t understand it/is having to figure it out from scratch because he’s gay. But with the way that El’s set up, it’s meant to put them both on equal footing with not understanding attraction/not having a great knowledge of its existence/what it is/how it’s defined and how it feels.  And sure, they’re kids and of course ANY kids don’t understand attraction perfectly: but a gay kid in the 80s and a girl raised in a lab have less of an understanding of it/experience with it. And absolutely, bi people did NOT have it easy in the 80s, I’m not saying that it was easier for them to understand their feelings, I’m saying that they DID have feelings towards the ‘opposite’ gender, whereas for Mike that attraction to the ‘opposite gender’ it’s a blank slate because it doesn’t exist for him, just like it is for El, because it didn’t exist for her in the lab.  If mike was anything other than gay, El wouldn’t be need to set up in a way where Mike being gay is the best-case scenario for her relationship with him and her own arcs and themes and having a happy/satisfying conclusion to them.  So many girls in the 80s who aren’t El, who HAVE been raised with that heteronormativity and understanding of attraction/even if they dont understand, having more of a knowledge of its existence at ALL than el does from a young age would be angry and very likely homophobic if they found out that their boyfriend was gay. But El won’t be. And that way, her relationship with Will isn’t hurt, her relationship with Mike isn’t hurt by him being gay (whereas if he was anything but gay, their relationship would be hurt by him ‘falling out of love’ with her for who she is/something about her, but if he was never in love with her, and isn’t into girls at all, then it’s not about her), that way, El isn’t put into a position of having to choose whether or not to be on the same side as homophobes, who are portrayed consistently as the bad guys in the show.  (I am NOT saying that El being mad at mike would be homophobic. I AM saying that if she was set up in a different way, she would have to make the CHOICE of being homophobic or not, of what side to be on, but this way, she isn’t put into that position, which aligns more with her narrative and character) And like we see in the s4 bedroom fight, El is upset about Mike not saying he loves her, but I also think she’s more upset about Mike lying to her. She KNOWS that he doesn’t show that he’s in love, but she wants to see if he can even say it, if he’ll lie about it or not, and I think the REAL hurt comes from him lying about it.  And so, if Mike is gay, then not only is “mike lying to el about being in love with her” resolved, but “el being hurt by mike not loving her/feeling unloveable for who she is” is resolved, because it was never ABOUT HER.  And sure, “mike lying to el about being in love with her” could be resolved if mike was bi and just fell out of love with her and then was honest with her about it, but again, that doesn’t align with a.) the cracks in their relationship from the VERY BEGINNING IN S1 and b.)  with a satsifying conclusion for el’s arc, themes, and characters, and with her and mike and will all staying on good terms with eachother.  Like I’ve been saying: if not el, then who? Then WHAT GIRL if will specifically wasn’t an option bc it’s not just that he wants to be with will? If mike isn’t in love with el/attracted to her but IS still attracted to girls, then WHAT WOULD HE CHANGE ABOUT EL? WHAT GIRL DOES HE WANT? HE’S ALREADY TRIED TO MOLD HER INTO HIS ‘IDEAL’ GIRL FROM S1 TO S3 AND NOT IN AN INTENTIONALLY HARMFUL WAY BUT IN A ‘VERY INFLUENCED BY HETERONORMATIVITY AND TRYING TO MAKE EL MEET THE SAME EXPECTATIONS THAT HE FEELS HE HAS TO MEET’ WAY. BUT THAT STILL WASN’T ENOUGH!!! Because Mike’s ideal girl DOESNT EXIST. And the closest that we get to it, the scene where Mike initiates the affection, the closest we get to him being attracted to her (even though he isn’t, but it’s the closest scene we get), is when El is a.) dressed more stereotypically masculinely, b.) she looks so similar to will that the guy at the police station literally mistook her for will and c.) she has very little understanding of the world/unique personality/ability to articulate that personality (she does have a unique personality but it isnt SHOWN to mike very much in s1 compared to the other seasons which is the thing).   The closest that we get to Mike being attracted to El, the scene where HE initiates it for once (even during the makeout/affection scenes in s2, El is the one initiating more, she’s the one holding onto HIS arm, she’s the one holding HIS face while they makeout and just sits there or takes her hands off of him), is a scene where El is the closest that she is to resembling a man. And it’s not just that mike still likes women but prefers masculine women, because even THEN, he’s still not fully attracted to her, he’s still operating around heteronormativity and what he thinks he has to do rather than what he actually wants/is attracted to, because he’s still figuring out what he wants/is attracted to.   El is literally his ‘ideal girl/the closest thing to it’ in that scene because she MUST BE the closest thing to an ‘ideal girl’ for him in that scene because it’s the only scene where HE initiates the kiss, its the closest he can get to loving her/being attracted to her, even though he doesn’t/isn’t, it’s the closest that he gets to it.   How are all of the issues with mike and el’s relationship explained if Mike was genuinely attracted to her at some point? They’re not. They’re not fully explained or fully resolved, even though parts of them can be explained. If they wanted to make Mike anything other than explicitly gay, it wasn’t necessary to set El up in the way that she’s set up. Not that El’s character revolves around Mike, but rather, that they could have addressed the exact same themes and ideas with her character without needing to set her up in a way that works perfectly with gay mike.  And how going back to my discussion about counterculture and music, and what is and isn’t counterculture and how people like Billy think that hatred is counterculture when in reality, love and happiness is counter-culture (just like how homophobes and bigots today bitch about how ‘the woke mob is overtaking everything and cishet white conservatives are a minority’), and Mike is starting to embrace counter-culture and anti-conformity in s4 because he’s realizing that love and happiness is the real counter-culture, and beginning to get over his heteronormativity and realize that hatred is the norm and that conformity and the norm sucks and hurts people (whereas in s3 he was trying to embrace conformity and continue to reinforce the norm). Mike is starting to realize that just like I talked with the music, bigots are using symbols of freedom and love and anti-bigotry to turn themselves into the victims Mike is getting over his internalized homophobia because like I said, he not only can’t apply that homophobic rhetoric to will, but being unable to apply it to will makes it more difficult for him to apply it to himself.   People who have enforced heteronormativity and homophobia are acting like they’re the victims of having to deal with queer people rather than the other way around, acting like they’re the victims of the aids crisis rather than queer people, acting like they’re the victims of people like eddie rather than eddie being the victims of people like them. Mike is realizing that society isn’t victimizied by his attraction to men, that it isn’t something bad- that it ISNT BAD because something that hurts something that’s bad (ie mike’s sexuality ‘hurting’ society/heteronormativity) is actually something good. He is realizing that the norm sucks, that the norm is hatred.  People are also using dnd to push their bigoted narrative, it’s all wrapped into the satanic panic alongside the music which is then tied to queerness and the aids crisis and homophobia. Mike was rejecting dnd/embracing that bigoted narrative to an extent in s3 but now he is starting to go against that narrative and embrace dnd and that ties into him embracing his sexuality like i’ve talked about already in this post.  Anyway im gonna explain these last few sections and the links between counter culture, conformity, the ST soundtrack choices and gay mike in a different post/in the analysis, but I need to rewatch the show and analyze the music relative to mike in order to really fully make the point about mike and counterculture and conformity and how it ties into gay mike and how it’s all demonstrated by the ST music.  conclusion: mike wheeler is gay the music is gay the music supports gay mike, the stranger things music team are absolutely genius and the way that the narrative is so interwoven with various topics and how that interweaving is supported by the music choices and the ways in which those music choices are implemented is absolutely fantastic.  god i need to finish both my music analysis and gay mike analysis.

[ghostlycleric]

I’m pretty sure Mike and El are the only couple in the show that don’t have shared interests.

Lucas and Max: Arcade games

Dustin and Suzie: Science/Technology

Jonathan and Nancy: Documenting life (Through Photography/Journalism)

Joyce and Hopper: Investigation (Hop was a cop, Joyce is Joyce) +caring for their kids

Mike and El are never given any interest that they both have and do together. Their relationship isn’t even given much volume beyond their trauma bonding. They actually went out of their way to have El dismissing Mike’s interests and only have El gain her own when she’s away from Mike.

With every other couple we have scenes of their shared interests adding to their relationship. Scenes that prove that their dynamic is rooted in a real, not-purely-physical connection.

There is one other couple who didn’t have shared interests… (*cough* Steve and Nancy *cough* who are broken up *cough*).

Mike and Will by default have a lot of shared interests. They’d be the only best friends to lovers in the show (which is actually crazy in a show with so many couples and friendships). DnD, despite being the root of the party itself, is specifically tied to these two in an interesting way. They’ve used dnd a few times as text above a more romantic subtext, which I feel like deserves its own post.

(I feel like it’s worth noting that technically they have Art (writing and painting), but Mike’s interest in writing has never been specifically confirmed in the show, so I’m not counting that.)

I’d be really interested in seeing canon byler having an isolated interest in season 5 that goes beyond subtext. Even if it’s still dnd, just isolated.

[chirpsythismorning]

Can we talk about how Jonathan might've been able to clock Mike simply because of what happened with him and Nancy in season two?

This will be a long post, so you might want to strap in or save it for later.

In Will and Mike's case, it would obviously be much different from Jonathan and Nancy's situation, given that you know, they're gay. But we still have Jonathan arguably going through a similar experience as Will, while Mike is going through a similar experience as Nancy.

In s2, we see Nancy confront Jonathan about how she waited for him before getting back with Steve, which is a revelation to him. Then they're at Murray's and she's struggling to say she loves Steve, after a handful of moments between them that felt like she might return Jonathan’s feelings. And you can clearly see it in his eyes, listening to Murray imply that they have feelings for each other, with him looking back and forth sort of in awe of what's happening, like he's starting to question if she might actually like him back.

Will doesn't have that same affordance as Jonathan to really hope, at least not anymore. Which is why these relationships in s2 and s4 end differently for these two brothers.

Based on all the signs he was seeing that Nancy felt the same, Jonathan decided to take the plunge to admit to Nancy how he felt, and at that same moment Nancy had the courage to show how she felt. In Will and Mike's case, Will wasn't ready to take the plunge to admit to Mike how he felt, at the same moment Mike didn't have the courage to show how he felt.

What's so painfully hilarious to me about all of this though, is that Jonathan arguably starts the season in the same shoes as most of the audience, where from his perspective, it's becoming obvious to him now that Will like's Mike, but that Mike does not feel the same way.

First at Rink-O-Mania, Mike appears a little uncomfortable upon hugging Will. Then as the happy couple continues on their adventure into Rink-O-Mania, he watches Will lagging behind moping. And then unfortunately he's out of commission for the rest of the evening...

But once he's sober and back to being an attentive brother the following morning, we see him watching them at breakfast, with Mike barely sparing Will a glance, all while Will is blatantly staring, almost like he's waiting for Mike to look back, only for Mike to get up and walk away.

All of these instances gotta be SCREAMING unrequited gay love to Jonathan. He's already gotten signs for years that Will is gay, these are now just the signs that are instilling his suspicions that Will has feelings for Mike. He could have easily interpreted their relationship in the early seasons as young best friends, with Will seeming to have a crush on Mike, and with them growing up and that potentially including Will's straight friend distancing himself from him because he doesn't feel the same. It's not the most unexpected thing in the world considering.

But then there's a shift.

Suddenly he's creeping up on them talking in his room. And we know he was listening in on the conversation because he brings up Owens when he sits down. As he's eavesdropping, he's probably thinking something innocent like Aww they're making up! And like, hey! Even if Mike doesn't feel the same, which is okay and entirely expected honestly, at least he still cares about Will enough to make things right after acting so out of character. Still, I'm not gonna lie, that sounded a lot like flirting to me--

Then he's knocking on Will's door like 30 minutes or less later only to find Mike and Will back on their bullshit. Mike suddenly isn't going out of his way to ignore or put Will on the back burner. In fact, he's on his bed and they're talking, again! The door is even closed this time, which is interesting. This has gotta be a good sign in Jon's eyes. Nothing to worry about! Right? Right...?

But then suddenly this shift continues, going in a direction he probably didn't expect.

I mean, this is literally an identical jancy parallel we have here with byler on the hood of the car, with Jonathan right there to witness it. Despite him maybe only now subconsciously picking up on the similarities between Will and Mike to him and Nancy here, he's at least taking note (I mean he's even got his gay map out and everything).

It isn't until the van scene happens, that I think Jonathan starts to genuinely consider his suspicions, which is that Mike might actually like Will back.

EVERY time we get a shot of Jonathan looking back at Will and Mike in the van, followed by a shot of his POV from the rearview mirror, we're faced with Mike looking at Will while Will is looking away.

As Jonathan is hearing Will confirm his suspicions about his feelings for Mike, he's simultaneously witnessing Mike not looking at Will with disgust, but something more akin to reverence. All of those moments in the van that we witnessed, including all the ways Mike looked at Will and everything that was said, Jonathan was right there.

And what's even more insane about this scene, is that it circles back to Jonathan as a character himself.

I remember when people were talking about how odd it was that we never saw Jonathan with a camera in s4. After 3 seasons in a row of making his passion for photography a big part of his identity, that part of him was apparently absent entirely this time around... But was it really?

This is the same guy that said, "Sometimes, people don't really say what they're really thinking. But you capture the right moment, it says more."

Jonathan might not have had his camera in s4, but this was without a doubt one of those moments where he captured something more.

Something that I also think get's highly overlooked about this scene, especially when it comes to Jonathan looking back at them, being followed by a shot of Mike staring at Will, is that he could see both of their reactions the whole time, from beginning to end. Will nor the audience had the affordance of knowing because Will was facing the other way at the end, while we on the other-hand were blurred from even having the chance, despite Mike literally being in the frame. But not Jonathan. He even lets us see what he sees, a few times, but not at the very end, which would have been nice after they didn't let us see Mike's reaction seconds before this.

Let's just stop right there for a second though and circle back to what I consider to be the first time Jonathan really picked up on Will's feelings for Mike, which was at the end of s3, in a sequence that is a little too relevant to the van scene if you ask me, given that they are almost direct parallels.

While these parallels are pretty spot on visually, they are also near spot on narratively when it comes to the evolution each of these characters are experiencing.

For Will in the first scene, it's sadness that he's moving away from his friends in Hawkins and also feeling like he's losing Mike, after what looks like him and El making up, which makes him scared he'll distance himself again. For Jonathan, it's sympathy for his brother who appears to have some very deep feelings for his friend, feelings he can't quite grasp yet but soon enough will.

For Will in the second scene, it's heartbreak that he has to accept that Mike will never feel the same, knowing that supporting his relationship with El (encouraging it honestly) will likely turn out just as it did last time, with him losing Mike all over again, for the last time. For Jonathan it's sympathy for his brother who has now confirmed his suspicions that the feelings he has for Mike are more than just that of a friend.

Given that this parallel reinforces the same feelings Will and Jonathan had in s3 to now, why would this not also reinforce those same feelings that Mike had in s3 to now?

In the first scene, Mike was visibly distraught, with dialogue from Hopper in the background applying a little too perfectly with what he was feeling in that moment, which was scared. He’s apparently back together with El now, despite them doing just fine as friends for the last 3 months, as well as him and Will just having finally gone back to them being on good terms again. But now, it’s like he’s right back where he started at the beginning of s3, feeling obligated to be the perfect boyfriend to El, and as a result, having no choice in his eyes but to distance himself from Will. Mike then walks into his house looking like a zombie, almost emotionless stepping into his mother's embrace.

Now, I say almost emotionless because it looks like Mike was trying to hold back showing how he truly felt in this moment. He's not crying like he did in s1 when he lost Will that first time. Time has passed and things have changed (he doesn't want things to change). And he's trying his best to keep it together. But the in-focus close-ups make it clear that he is definitely not okay.

What's so impactful about these parallels is that it presents the inner struggle both of these characters are having, both queer and experiencing doubts, but in different ways and for different reasons.

Will is the one who covers it all up with lies, hiding the tears in his eyes, because boys don't cry.

Mike is the one who has never cried to them, just to his soul (RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY!!!).

If you actually try to get a gage on Mike's in-focus emotions in that first scene vs. his out-of-focus emotions in that second scene, well they're not that far off from each other.

We go from Mike smiling vibrantly at Will, to him now slowly turning away to look back down at the painting, with whatever the hell emotion this is...

It's near impossible to catch because of how out-of-focus it is, but looking a lot closer, it honestly appears like Mike is feeling something akin to sadness that he's trying to mask. For a moment it even looks like he turns his head to wince emotionally, only to correct himself.

And call me crazy, but these shots also low-key parallel each other. Mike looking down trying to keep his emotions in check and failing miserably, only to look up and meet eyes with someone whose witnessing it.

With each shot before this of Jonathan observing Mike looking at Will, with him showing all the emotions Will never got to see and everything else in between, I wonder what Jon saw this time? Probably another thing he didn't expect.

Can you just try to imagine the silence in this van, accompanied by Will's muffled sobs, and then try to imagine Mike turning to look down at the painting, only to sneak a glance, and then go right back to looking at the painting, IN SILENCE, and then try to tell me how the assumption that Mike didn’t notice Will crying makes any sense, like realistically?

Yeah me and Jonathan are confused too.

Right now, Jonathan's probably wondering why Mike was acting a little fruity and repressed during the painting reveal. And that although he may have a penchant for being able to 'capture the right moment', Mike is sticking with his story (despite all the stalling and doubt). He is 100% straight!

And so maybe this is where Jonathan tries to accept what is being presented to him as the truth, despite the contradictions in front of him. It's likely that despite the way Mike looks at Will and acts around him, in ways he would have assumed coming from Nancy in s2 would've been evidence that she felt the same, it probably doesn't apply to Mike.

Maybe Jonathan's ready to accept that it's a lot more likely Will is experiencing unrequited love as a gay kid growing up in a small town, the most predictable experience a gay kid could go through, and in contrast Mike just feels too bad to let Will down easy.

Or who knows, maybe Mike could still be a little bit gay too...

But it doesn't matter anyways. Mike seems to be adamant about this and so there's really nothing else Jonathan can he do besides tell his brother he'll be there for him no matter what. And so he does just that.

But then Mike just has to surprise him one last time.

For those that don't know, the line Mike gives here in his monologue was in part pulled from Will's monologue in the van. Most don't know this because this line didn't make the final cut for the van scene, but in the official script the writers posted, what we find is an almost a direct parallel.

Which makes the reaction shots of Will and Jonathan directly after Mike says this all the more epic.

From Will's end he was probably hearing Mike say this and just thinking 'Damn. Well, that's what you get for using your feelings to inspire Mike to profess his love to El.'

But from Jonathan's end, I don't think his outside POV of these events overlapping was nearly as naive as his brothers understanding of the events. Because why the fuck would Mike need to use Will's feelings to inspire him to profess his love to El in the first place? Is this what Mike has been struggling with? Really? Why before every moment Mike takes action in this scene, is Will's hand literally pushing him into it? Why is Mike being so dramatic about saying I love you, stuttering and rambling about her being a superhero, not saying nearly as meaningful of things as what Will said in the van?

And then it hits him.

Mike is reminding him a little too much of another Wheeler right now...

Nancy Wheeler, who was afraid of what would happen if she accepted herself for who she really was, leading her to retreat back to the safety of Steve. Because Nancy liked Steve, but she didn't love Steve.

And now here is Mike Wheeler, who has went from being incredibly distant with Will after reuniting with El, something that is very unlike the Mike he knew in previous seasons, to something more himself again after they make up, with him looking at Will with adoration after hearing his words in the van, only to turn away and look heartbroken. Mike who is now struggling to simply tell El he loves her with Will right behind him literally yelling at him to do it.

And now it's like all those little moments are starting to add up to Jonathan.

Suddenly all those signs he picked up on from Will when he was younger are now blending in with moments Will shared with Mike. It was Mike who jumped in after him and his mom's speech to Will in the shed in s2, with tears in his eyes recalling the day that they met (without being asked, let alone pushed to). And it's Mike who is now looking like he's at war with himself as he attempts to give encouragement to El, just like he did with Will in s2, but this time he needs someone to push him to do it, and that person just so happens to be Will. After just finding out about Will's feelings and also while assuming El wants him to love her that way still, Mike is stuck.

I don't think it's takes a genius to consider Jonathan is capable of realizing how fucked they all are in this situation.

As much as Mike isn't ready for a sleuth of reasons, Will isn't ready either.

This provides a huge contrast between the bylers ², because while Jonathan and Nancy went through a similar experience to Will and Mike, them being ready to accept it and act on it didn't involve nearly as many factors and risks. Will and Mike also have the added barrier that is homophobia.

Will's internalized homophobia lies in part with assuming Mike could never feel the same based on some of the words he said in their last two fights, with parts being painfully reminiscent of the things his dad and bullies used to say about him. These are also words that contradict Mike's own words and actions from the previous seasons, things that did once give Will hope. The shame and guilt that comes with falling for your best friend, who you now know will never feel the same after being foolish enough to believe it not too long ago, and who might not even want to be your friend anymore upon finding out the truth, is understandable. He can't have hope like Jonathan can. It's just not the same.

Mike's internalized homophobia lies with assuming El wants him to love her, along with their relationship being expected and socially acceptable from everyone around him. Though unfortunately for her he feels abundantly more in love in the moments he shares with Will. Despite trying to make it work with El as hard as he could, because she's amazing and all any guy could hope for in a girlfriend, he can't ignore the fact that the feelings he has for these two people are different. The shame and guilt that comes with you, a boy, falling for your best friend, who is also a boy, and who is starting to show that he feels the same, all while you can't muster up the courage to break up with your girlfriend, nor can you muster up the courage to tell her that you love her, not when she's begging you, dying or even just simply at the end of a letter, is pretty understandable too. He can't have hope like Nancy can. It's just not the same.

Spoiler: They were not ready.

PS: I'm still not over the fact that they low-key confirmed these events elsewhere in the story...

[wheelercurse]

The Wheelers + Forced Conformity (aka the reason why they are Vecna’s target) 

[tender-emotional-music]

Small-town Stephen King books are my favourite, and for obvious reasons they are similar to Stranger Things (literally a direct inspiration in the case of The Body/Stand By Me, and IT). I’m reading ‘Salem’s Lot currently and there’s just a quote that stuck out to me:

“There’s little good in sedentary small towns. Mostly indifference spiced with an occasional vapid evil - or worse, a conscious one.”

This is the main principle of IT too; It represents the hatred and bigotry within small towns in that era, and how that cruelty begins to taint the innocence and freedom of childhood as you grow older. Like Hawkins, it’s not a coincidence that Derry or the Lot are being tormented with “evil.” The evil is just a physical manifestation of everything wrong with the fabric of those towns and the so-called “norm.” This is why we’re going to see characters like Will, who continue to love despite everything thrown their way, get a happy ending. The supernatural threats are entwined with these themes, hence why it’s not just about beating Vecna (who is a product of being Other’d, and the environment Hawkins has fostered) and the mind Flayer or whatever. The inherent issues with Hawkins which allowed these things to happen in the first place need to be changed. Humans and their capacity for cruelty are the true conscious evils.

[emblazons]

Wheelers x The 'Pretend Like We're Stupid Teenagers' Fit

aka: the way Nancy's Halloween Costume & Mike's "California Outfit" are visual cues that they are showing up as someone other than their authentic self (even though neither one can commit to the bit without getting sarcastic and messy when someone tries to pretend the 'normalcy' isn't a facade)

Nancy Wheeler in S02E02 - Trick or Treat, Freak Mike Wheeler in S04E02 - Vecna's Curse

[monoukotori]

There has been a lot of talk about how Andromeda Shun defies gender roles by being a soft kind man who hates fighting, but I think we should also talk how Saga, the big bad of the sanctuary arc, also defies gender expectations

He's the most powerful saint of sanctuary, he's a ruthless killer who murdered a lot of people, including the man who raised him and his best friend,pretended to be the Pope for 13 years and tried to assassinate a bunch of teenagers that opposed him

He is also a pretty bishounen man that has the most fanservice scenes in the entire anime, after being unmasked cried for like, 40 percent of his screentime and immediately submitted to Athena after losing.

He's a manly man who is also sensitive and emotionally fragile, who embodies the dichotomy of masculinity and feminity in the most extreme ways with his double personality

Not to mention the fact that before Seiya he effectively murdered everyone who saw him without his mask as if he was a female saint.

[olden-towne]

Star vs the Forces of Evil could have been so much more interesting, were it not the way it was, but was a different way instead.

[athiestpaladin]

if (when) byler becomes canon, i feel like (on full rewatch) it'll end up feeling like the core of the stranger things plot with how much of the story can be seen as parallels or double meanings about them; molded to them

[onewholivesinloops]

it's called gousotsu because it's the reverse of sotsugyo - 'graduating' into adulthood - and the entire show is about satoko's attempt to escape this graduation by retreating back to the safety of childhood and how she's regressed in her attempt to heal from trauma.

[aemiron-main]

God the Eddie-El parallels are also SO interesting to & ties into Eddie’s themes of accidentally reinforcing conformity under the guise of nonconformity & how nonconformity can look different/mean different things for different people (see: lucas joining the basketball team because it’s what HE wants to do vs being pressured to skip out on it for hellfire, int his case going to hellfire and skipping what HE wants would be conformity)

Like this scene REALLY stands out in that regard for me:

“You looked so-“

“Different? Yeah, my hair was buzzed and I didn’t have these sweet old tatties yet.”

El has her hair buzzed against her will & is tattooed against her will in order to make her conform. Eddie, on the other hand, chooses to buzz his hair and get tattoos as a sign of non-conformity.

Nonconformity means two totally different things for each of them. Eddie also grows his hair out as a sign of nonconformity later in his life though (s4), so it’s not really about the hair length at all- it’s about choice and agency. Forced conformity is killing the kids, lack of choice and freedom and agency is killing the kids.

[jonathanbyersphd]

ANYWAYS, you mean to tell me they dressed Nancy identical to Barb AND used a s1 Steve quote for the caption.

[bumblingbabooshka]

Post-Voyager Tom Paris crashes at Tuvok's house after yowling at Harry's apartment door like a stray cat (until one of the neighbors tells him that Harry's on a deep space mission that he didn't hear about) and B'Elanna isn't talking to him at all because of this-and-that and it isn't his week to see Miral - or it is his week but he asked for it to be moved to next week because he had something he wanted to show Harry but Harry isn't here now so he gets drunk and goes to Tuvok's place and they talk about fatherhood and parenthood and their own dads and family life post Voyager and its actually a very meaningful conversation but *it all (*it all = The fact that Tuvok had an imperfect and strict father like his own yet was able to take something positive out of that and become a good father, a good husband, create a good life. The warmth that seeps out of every corner of this family home when Tom expected something as cold as his own and the one he grew up in, colder if possible - that's why he came in the first place if he really thinks about it.) makes Tom so depressed that as soon as Tuvok retires for the night Tom tries to flirt with Tuvok's daughter - to no avail, so he instead flirts and sleeps with one of Tuvok's sons. Unfortunately, Tuvok catches them in the act and Tom is immediately kicked out. While he's parking his ship somewhere to sleep the rest of the night he gets a message from Harry in response to a half-joke-half-accusation Tom sent earlier asking why he didn't tell him about the mission saying "Sorry, busy!" and even though he actually is it still makes Tom want to cry so he punches his console and hurts his hand. He drafts three different apology messages to three separate people and almost calls his dad then wakes up the next morning and deletes all that to send Harry a picture of the new modifications he made to his ship and grinning when he receives an enthusiastic response. Life is good!

[stranger-chichka]

In addition to that post, Camazotz means "death bat" and it's also the Mayan god of bats and death.

Demobats. They attacked the teens and killed Eddie.

Baseball bats. Baseball is a symbol of forced conformity/ heteronormativity. "It's forced conforming. That's what's killing the kids."

[there-was-a-hole-here-itsgonenow]

Thoughts on Loch Nora - Expectations & Conformity

Wracking my brain about these images and I welcome more people to throw out thoughts because I’m invested:

The Party goes into the wealthier neighborhood called Loch Nora, which isn’t the real name of this place in Stone Mountain, GA. It’s actually called Brentwood:

This has to mean something. Loch translates to ‘lake’ from Scottish origin and Nora can mean ‘honor’ or ‘light/shining light’ depending on variation. I think it’s interesting that there’s water and light association with this neighborhood. And honor? The kids emphasize hitting up Loch Nora for the full-sized candy bars and Dustin even comments that rich people are ‘suckers.’ The rich tend to be associated with honor, high respect and a conventional standard of conduct. It’s like being ‘in the light,’ so to speak. And yet these people in this scene are considered to be easily played because of that wealth. There’s an expectation to deliver and go above and beyond. As for ‘lake’—water—there’s already plenty of water symbolism in the show at this point, prior to this scene even. And they tend to be negative. Examples include El constantly submerged in water for purposes she’s forced into, Barb transported to the UD at a pool (and dies in it), and Will believed (a story fabricated) to have fallen in the quarry and died there. Loch Nora might also be a negative symbol. Lake Honor, Lake Light. Either way, submerged in that water—drowning in expectation.

So the boys and Max are in Loch Nora, Mike’s upset because Max is there, commenting that she’s ‘ruining’ the best night of the year, and he storms away from Will—between the number 1590 and a Reagan/Bush sign. The Reagan/Bush sign is in Will’s line of sight, perhaps a symbolic gaze at oncoming ‘expectation.’ Even later when Mike takes Will home, we get a closing-in shot of Mike’s house with another Reagan/Bush sign overlaid with Will saying he feels like he’s ‘stuck.’

Mike’s conventional expectations related to this sign comes from his own home; he lives with it, goes into it, and the sign itself is a reminder of it. Forced conformity, right?

But 1590? It has to mean something but I cant figure it out yet. There’s even a big bunch of red flowers behind this number (and some beside the Reagan/Bush and Loch Nora signs too) that’s easily noticeable and possibly tie further into expectation. Because who’s the character associated with red and goes into a not-great relationship Mike? Maybe this number is also negative in meaning. I’ve kept up with a handful of number significances for the show but I haven’t thought of this one before. Or personally seen it discussed but it must have at some point. Would love more takes and thoughts!!

-

@aemiron-main do you happen to have an idea on this number?? You have a lot of great insight on stuff like this so I have to ask!

[emblazons]

one day the people are gonna realize that one of the most fascinatingly effective narrative devices is letting the audience understand something about the character/story before the character(s) realize it—and then letting them enjoy the twists and turns as the character moves from in the dark to enlightened.

You’re not reading too far into it—you figuring it out first (and knowing the character can’t be trusted to know themselves) is the point. But then…that requires media literacy an understanding of “dramatic irony,” and an awareness that storytelling itself can be just as much a character as the characters themselves LMAO