#something something helly and helena are the same person

[reaptide]

"They sound like different music in my head. With different music, it's maybe the same musician but different songs or different albums, and they do have different internal rhythms. But keeping in mind what they share, which is they're both quite strong-willed. They're both fiercely loyal to the people they love, and I think they're both longing for connection and meaning inside a world that they're both trapped inside of in very different ways."

SEVERANCE (2022-) Britt Lower as Helly R. / Helena Eagan

[guirr01-blog]

I'd like to add to this.

In Woe's Hollow (s2e4) all of MDR is at a point where they're aware of the differences between them and their outies. Helly and Helena are fundamentally at odds, the hyper-competent Dylan has an outie who is "kind of a fuck up", and kind-hearted Mark is, on the outside, a sad drunk - and even then, knowing that his outie's wife is alive, he still has sex with Helly. That is to say, all of them are not just severed, but downright in conflict with who they are outside.

But not Irving. Not anymore.

Losing Burt has made him anti-Lumon just like his outie, and it's at this point that we see them becoming alike. It's at this point that we see that they're the same person. There's the drive, the determination, the disdain towards Lumon, but also other aspects of outie Irving that survive in innie Irving.

Innie Irving is a good artist. Of course. His outie paints all the time.

Innie Irving is fit enough to keep up with the "Helly" and Mark during the hike, then sleep outside, and then overpower "Helly" without much effort, all despite his age. Of course. His outie has served in the military.

Innie Irving is able to pick up the inconsistencies in "Helly"'s behaviour. Of course. His outie has been doing detective work with excellent results.

Out of all people, the meek old man that is innie Irving turned against his whole world, first in pain, and then in the pursuit of something greater - freedom, even if he may never experience it. And when he went out, he did so on his own feet, basking in a sunlight previously unknown to him, with a smile on his face. Whole, happy, contented.

obsessed with the Helena and Irving parallel and what it says about the aspects of our identity we think are fundamental (but aren't)...

Like Outie Irving assumes his Innie is just as radically anti-Lumon as he is. He assumes his hatred of Lumon is something ingrained in his personality! That's why he stays up at night drinking coffee and making paintings, because he hopes that when his innie dreams about the testing floor, he'll say "okay bet" and start exploring. That's what Outie Irving would do, after all. But he miscalculated! His hatred of Lumon isn't inherent--- his desire for meaning and art and spirituality is inherent. That's what his hatred for Lumon is built on. But in a world where there's no meaning outside of Lumon propaganda, of COURSE his innie would become ridiculously devoted to the company.

And Helena!! She is the corporation, that's her whole identity. She presumably assumed that Helly would be just as pro-Lumon as she is. But she miscalculated too! Her devotion to the company isn't inherent, her headstrong and entitled nature is what's inherent! And in a world where she's denied any agency whatsoever, that manifests as rebellion.

It's the same dynamic flipped on its head. They both sent their innies in there with opposite intentions--- one to take down the company, one feed the company's expansion--- only to realize that rebellion and devotion aren't inherent characteristics. Their innies have become the exact opposite of their outie selves, while still being exactly the same!! Because even though your personality is inherent, the values you hold are determined circumstantially. OUGH IT'S SO GOOD.

[lewyn-martell]

BRITT LOWER as Helena Eagan and ADAM SCOTT as Mark Scout in SEVERANCE → 2.04 "Woe's Hollow"

You know, there's a kinship between these two people that is innate, and I think what the show explores in all of its scope is the ways in which we're different in different environments, and does that sort of kinship carry over between characters, as you shift from innie to outie?

—Britt Lower, Inside the Episode 204: "Woe's Hollow"

My first instinct is to go to the part of my job that is sculpting the inner life of each of these parts of this same person. So, starting from Season One, I was much more in the headspace and inner life of Helly R, and Helena was seen much more in presentational environments. She's being taped, or she's being watched. […] This is a person, Helena, who has been conditioned into the position she's in. She's trapped within the same company [as the rest of the characters]. I think for Helena, it was this chance to blend into an environment that she doesn't get to be a part of, and to connect in a way that maybe she's never connected before.

—Britt Lower, GQ

I think there is that longing for connection and humanity because she’s been so starved for it. So even though she’s lying, I think there are genuine moments. There are genuine things that she’s filtering through the lens of Helly R.

—Britt Lower, The Washington Post

They're two parts of the same person. So there's obviously an inner rebel inside of Helena. That's an aspect of her that's not totally foreign to her. It is something that she has access to. And in Season 1, we see Helena looking at the innies. We see her studying Mark and Helly's interaction and having this curiosity about them.

—Britt Lower, TIME

That taking on this other version of yourself that maybe you've out-grown or you're at odds with, but it's still there—it's a frequency and a rhythm that you can tap into. Even in the scene where she's kind of laughing at the mythology of the scriptures at the ORTBO, I think that, probably, when she was a kid, she wanted so badly to laugh at these pretty ridiculous texts of her family, but she didn't have the ability. So here she is, through the lens of Helly R, getting to live out that [rebellion].

—Britt Lower, GQ

I think she’s getting a chance to have a laugh about it through this rebellious version of her. She’s like, “This is the filter who would get to do that and not suffer the consequences.”

—Britt Lower, Variety

I think that her meeting the innies has a profound effect on her humanity. And I think that she does share a sense of humor with with Mark, that's natural.

—Britt Lower, TIME

His feelings for Helly have only grown thus far this season […] Helly is a huge part of his life. Huge. And I think that a lot of his identity is wrapped up in how he feels about her and how she feels about him[…]

—Adam Scott, EW

Mark starts to realize: maybe getting Gemma out of here isn't my first objective. Maybe it's a little more important to take care of myself.

—Adam Scott, Inside the Episode 204: "Woe's Hollow"

The two of them are on a path. The two individuals, regardless of the innies or the outies, have been on a path of kindred spirit from season one. There's something physiologically that they have, this innate connection[…]

—Britt Lower, GQ

It's something we talked about a lot and spent a lot of time mulling over, the idea of this sort of triangle that's created with Innie Mark and Helly R. and Helena. For Mark's outie, Helena is someone he finds frightening and who is responsible for so much tumult and grief in his life. Yet, I think these two people, one way or another, have a connection of some sort. I'll leave it at that.

—Adam Scott, TIME

[aingeal98]

The thing that gets me about "Helly was never cruel" is that he's completely right but also. Helly never had the opportunity to be? From the moment she came into existence everyone around her had power of some sort over her, she was the newest severed employee and all her older coworkers were men. Everything she did was geared towards defying the cruelty that those in power, including Helena, subjected her to. She was aggressive and angry and brittle and witty but she never had enough power to be cruel.

What's fascinating to me about Helly/Helena is that we know everything Helena is capable of is something Helly is also capable of. Their limits of defiance and will and their capacity for good and evil are the exact same. Helly was put in an environment where all that fire and no nonsense cut the bullshit attitude could only be channeled into rebellion. Helena grew up in an environment where those same traits were either stamped out or refined into sharpness and ruthless cruelty.

There's no wiggle room when it comes to wondering "What if the roles were reversed?" because we know exactly what would happen. They're the same person by nature and completely different due to nurture. What a weird feeling it must be, to know the person you despise most in the world is someone you know beyond a shadow of a doubt you could have been exactly like if things were different. I am all you could be and you are all I am terrified of becoming.

[weirdero]

I want to talk about Helena’s performance as Helly and her deep rooted misunderstanding of who Helly is as a person. And just in general how I think she perceives her especially after yesterday’s episode.

Helena is incredibly attentive, almost to the point of being terrifying. In the short moments she interacts with anyone, everything in her head is already scripted, calculated, and premeditated. She’s also a great method actress, reacting based on the energy around her. It’s like a stand up comic, constantly adjusting their performance to make sure their actions land. If something doesn’t click, she shifts.

Throughout the past couple of episodes, Helena spends most of her time just trying to go with the flow move with the water, trying to fit in without standing out, constantly monitoring the group and their reactions at every turn. And so far, she was good at it. She can play the part, until her own emotions towards helly start to blind her.

In these two pics she does a quick scan of Irving’s and Marks faces trying to analyze their reactions

Helena knows the group loves Helly. She knows Mark loves Helly. And honestly, I’d bet every dollar in my bank account that it genuinely makes her want to kill herself. She has zero respect for Helly, and she doesn’t need to. To Helena, Helly, and by extension, the group, are low value. Insignificant. At her highest, Helly is just a worker, a cheap extension of herself created with the sole purpose of just being a good employee to be displayed to the public as a little shining lumon puppet. But shit, the bitch can’t even do that. She’s done quite the opposite. So yeah, not a person to be respected or valued.

This particular disdain (and fuck it, I’m just gonna say hate) that Helena carries for Helly spills into the bonfire scene with Milchick.

While Milchick is reading the story, enunciating every word like a second grade elementary school teacher, showing pictures like they’re in a reading circle, I kept wondering to myself if Helena ever experienced something similar to this as a child. How many times has she heard this same story? Or hell, any other old Kier mythology? Lumon, Kier, the Eagan legacy, it’s all she’s ever known. This world is nothing new to her.

Even though I believe Helena is a loyal servant, she probably didn’t love all the weird shit she had to put up with in her childhood. The weight of the Egan legacy probably suffocates her. But she accepted it either way because that was the life she was given. Unlike fucking helly. Fucking helly who’s forced her into this situation to begin with. In my opinion, all of these particular feelings make their way into Helena’s reaction to the story as Helly, which could only be described as a middle schooler who suddenly thinks they’re too old for camp.

I saw this post someone made about this scene, and like shit, yeah, that’s probably right. Helena had one chance to shit on the weird religion that’s been shoved down her throat since birth and she took that chance.

Helena, in this moment, settles for crude, mocking jokes. She probably does this partially out of her own selfish need for Mark’s validation, as well as playing her role trying to fit into the group but I also think it’s a great reflection of her own personal feelings toward Helly. Helly, who would’ve never acted that way. Helly, who is many things, but never cruel. Helena doesn’t seem to understand that. For the moment, Helena takes a step back, flanderizes Helly, reducing her to this cheeky, crude, disruptive little jokester. That’s how Helena views her. With no respect. No nuance. Helly has layers Helena does not care to see. Helly doesn’t just break rules; she actively causes chaos, subverting everything around her. She’s purposefully, and happily, malcontent. A bitch, dare I say, an ungrateful bitch, most likely from Helena’s point of view.

Irving, who keeps testing her, makes her slip a little more. I talked about this a little bit in my last post about severance, but Helena doesn’t take well to being disrespected. She shifts from wanting the group’s (and mostly Mark’s) validation to just wanting to put Irving in his fucking place. These people aren’t equal to her in her mind. They aren’t cut from the same cloth probably not even made from the same fabric. There are levels to this shit, and they are not on her level.

She says what she says. It’s cruel. Mostly, it’s stupid on her part.

And just like Irving said later, and what I said earlier Helly was many things, but…

What Helena did at the bonfire was a fuck up. An especially surprising one coming from a woman as controlling and calculated as her. I’m fully convinced all those little mistakes came from a deep frustration within her. Much of that anger, in my opinion, is stewing from the realization that Helly, someone created by her, literally the source of all of Helena’s recent problems, someone who will stop at nothing to take her down, that person, the woman who’s literally locked up inside her, is more free than she will ever be.

Yes, Helena has no respect for Helly. Yes, she most likely hates that bitch. But when she herself is acting as Helly, it gives her the opportunity to almost let go. She gets the chance to essentially kill the bitch that’s been fucking up her life whilst simultaneously getting a chance to talk to this man who cares so deeply for a version of herself she hates, Even if it’s not the most ideal of situations (it’s not), it’s still something. I think, at the bonfire, she reflects on the ridiculous situation she’s found herself. All this shit caused by some other version of herself that she created, that situation plus all the other shit going down at Lumon is probably alot. And it just all bubbles up inside her. And when she’s given even the smallest opportunity to let anything out, she’s going to take it.

Idk it’s therapeutic in a way I guess.

She’s unfiltered, blunt, and almost carefree in a way that’s shocking almost unsettling. It’s clearly how she sees Helly to some degree, but also her own need to scratch an itch she’s never dared to before. And even though it’s an act of “Helly”, it still leaves a clear aftertaste of Helena.

Keep thinking about these two little moments whilst she’s making her jokes she not only keeps checking on mark’s reaction but also seems to laugh at her self in a way that just seems so genuine almost self deprecating. She acknowledges the ridiculousness of her situation and this dumb ass story she’s probably heard a million times

In my last post about Severance, I mentioned that Helena is the master of speaking her truth without outright saying it. She hides behind walls, but as Helly, she’s free to speak without restraint.

(Also her having sex with mark is a clear way of her expressing this new found freedom with in her role as helly but ima talk about that later)

[concenecxere]

this is so beautifully put. i mean gorgeous. i am not caught up so i am effectively spoiling myself but funnily enough i actually tried to talk to my mother about this while watching s1 bc at the same time i'd been reading a chapter of this book about compulsory sexuality (refusing compulsory sexuality: a black asexual lens on our sex-obsessed culture by sherronda j brown) which really encouraged this exploration for me. like so much of what stood out to me was the direct comparison of innie marks interrogation of his own creation being spurred on whilst dealing with integrating helly into the severed floor (and the loss of petey) vs his sister on the outside having her first child. helly r is almost a petulant child to him at first, an inconvenience to the order of things although necessary for their workplace function at lumon (like ops gf said, just like helena mark as her boss almost resents the freedom with which helly is defiant), until of course he really reconciles the severity and the lengths she goes to and turns inward and wonders why he never stopped to question it all himself. so we see these motivations for reproduction in direct contrast -- in the story of mark the final goal of his reproduction is productivity (by separating himself from his trauma), versus devon and rickan taking an approach to reproduction "more virtuously" by comparison (like excited for the journey of raising a unique human being). now this is the point where i realized i was talking to my mother and didnt really have my thoughts wrapped around it and wanted to begin that type of conversation with more nuance and the conversation naturally returned back to the show.

but! back to the book by sherronda j brown -- it has a whole chapter on productivity, partially tackling how capitalism incorporates productivity into nuclear family making which kind of effectively pulls the magic out of the point of a family. a child is not something that you can utilize/form for some present/later convenience, they're a human being with their own unique ambitions and the beauty of parenthood is often watching them discover that etc etc. but capitalism looks to control family making as it is a method of economic stimulation. again this requires a lot of nuance, because since we are so embedded in capitalism in some ways you have no choice but to be implicit even if you are aware, and you can be doing this wether you realize it or not. i also want to be sure i acknowledge that i am by no means an expert on this i just felt emboldened to get into it here. alongside those examples given by the amazing prev posts/tags this is illustrated in real life by how so many people are realizing using children as a contingency plan for who'll take care of you when you age or like expecting grandchildren from your own children. like its absolutely not a bad thing to want these things but assuming no matter how you treat your children that its their responsibility to fulfill that for you is bull -- and objectively to expect this is not even always guaranteed biologically for several reasons but i digress. a child is their own person worthy of respect and if you don't give it to them they don't/shouldn't owe you present or future compliance (again theres nuance, even in severance given the outies varying levels of awareness of/care about their innies treatment) but capitalism is a part of perpetuating this. as so many now realize if you are surrounded by real true community confirmed elder care and the opportunity to be a grandparent-like mentor is/should be available without nuclear family to fulfill it. the power of found family and all that beautiful stuff! particularly when imagined with a queer lens. but capitalism has taught us intentionally that all of this should come from the heteronormative nuclear family and is only valid when derived from a heteronormative nuclear family in order to isolate us from one another and sell us these opportunities in other ways for their own gain. anyways i've danced all around it myself but brown says the following far more concisely in their amazing book (which i look forward to finishing).

"anxiety about the sex recession among young people is also anxiety about an accompanying decrease in marriage, nuclear family making, and home ownership. all of these things are intimately related and impact our economy, especially because they are so easily capitalized on. those invested in the capitalist system work to convince us that these are necessary parts of life and that participation in them makes us more mature adults and 'productive' members of society... therefore, cisheterosexual sex itself becomes a means of productivity because it is understood to ultimately lead to marriage, procreation, and nuclear families, all of which are integral to patriarchal and white supremactist capitalist systems."

its so remarkably layered i would love to pick the brains of the writers about it all!! lumon offering severance and the creation of an innie as this amazing way to free themselves from the monotony of a job or like the weight of the outside world on their work. but of course this job is necessitated by the capitalist society they exist within and the thing that drives them all to severance is what capitalism forces them to believe they have wrong with themselves or have to achieve to be successful. so then when they create their innie, or "have their child" as it were, and the child demands more love than you ever thought you were allowed the capitalism worm in your brain has already prepped you to place the blame on the child and not realize the system is what has it all wrong. and even if you do understand the systems driven you to this point the cost that you've paid for being compliant all this time is this life you now get to watch your child live.

my gf said something sooo insane about helly the other day and i cannot stop thinking about it. she was like. helena and helly’s relationship is almost maternal. the way helena created helly as an extension of herself, to serve her interests, to try and impress her own family. she scolds helly, talks down to her like a child. “i understand you’re unhappy with the life you’ve been given” “i am a person, you are not”. the way she envies and resents helly’s freedom. the way she feels entitled to helly’s life and is now living vicariously through her in the most literal sense. what if you created life and now they’re experiencing the things you’ve always wanted for yourself. what if you created life and they were flawed and loud and demanding and they were loved more than you’ve ever been. and you hated them for it. the mother/daughterisms are insane my girlfriend is insane

[lumons]

something about irving trying to bring back helly by nearly killing helena and how determined and full of rage he is with helena vs how gentle he is with helly make me insane. there's so much with mark and how his outie vs innie are the same and going through the same grief and trials despite not always understanding it, but here's helly and helena who even though they share the same body they are not the same person to irving. which again is interesting because he and his outie are trying to get to burt and he's devastated by outie burt's life and what he's seen of it. yet, who helly's outie is doesn't matter or change how he views her in the slightest. there is a clear separation to him of these two people. helena might be responsible and come from a dynasty that is responsible for everything doesn't mean helly also carries that responsibility and blame in his eyes. helly was never cruel, and helena will never be helly, and she will never be free of the system that she is a part of and has contributed to. the almost expected outcome of anyone finding out helly is an eagan is that they'd turn their backs on her or hold some form of contempt towards her and yet here's irving, who does everything he can to bring helly back to them because she's the one who should be there and she's the one he cares for, not helena

[lesbianalanwake]

really fascinated by something..... Helena has gotten a little glimpse of what Helly has - friendship, affection, outspoken personality - and is mesmerized.

but there is, possibly, the implication that Cobel has been experiencing the same thing. the bts clip confirmed that she's been a part of the Lumon cult since childhood, but she has also spent a significant amount of time pretending to be a kooky old lady and getting cozy not just with Mark but with his family. she is deeply embedded in Lumon conditioning, but she is still furious from their betrayal and has an agenda that isn't quite clear yet. a so-called promotion and a place within Lumon isn't enough; she wants the severed floor, and she wants it for a reason. even if she accepts the advisory council position, she will almost certainly be following her own agenda, which may or may not involve her own mother, from things we glimpsed in S1. she has some kind of care for Mark, and seemed to genuinely enjoy hanging out with Devon and the baby and even Ricken's silly reading.

the discussion between Cobel and Helena in S2E2 is fraught and full of visual reflections, because both of them have been wearing more than one face, and both of them are mirrors of each other: playing pretend at normal life (an office job, a family), until it stops being pretend and starts being a glimpse at something you've never had, and it makes you, horrifyingly, care.

women raised by Lumon will look at the Scouts and ask "is anyone going to imprint on them?" and not wait for an answer.

[embv]

I think everyone’s subscribing to the “Helena Infiltration Theory” WAYY too quickly. I kinda feel like a lot of the oddities in the way she was acting could be chalked up to something else, and defaulting to “that’s not Helly” feels a lot like… I don’t know, like brushing off character flaws by saying, “No, [X] is possessed! That’s not actually them!”

I’d probably buy into it a bit more if she didn’t have that moment in the halls with Mark where she fervently said, “We’re not the same, actually. Us and the outies, we’re not.”

There are reasons why Helly would want to lie about her identity, and chief among them is the fact that she hates her outie—desperately wants to place distance between them, desperately wants to convince herself that the person she saw wasn’t her.

But there are compelling reasons for both angles, and I can’t say that I won’t be scanning future episodes for hints to either prove or disprove this, so… cheers, 🥂.

[devilsskettle]

something about the new episode showing how the “outies” are also exploited by severance and subject to the same manipulation tactics as their “innies.” dylan loses his job and can’t even fight it with a wrongful termination claim or whatever because he doesn’t remember what he’s being lied to about. irving and mark are both told what they want to hear about the kind of people they hope to be at work (irving is a man of principle. mark is happy and in love.) which is an inversion of how the “innies” are told facts about their “outies” in their wellness appointments. even helena wants to see what happens in the office, the important relationships her “innie” has cultivated that she doesn’t remember. and she has to show convincingly genuine contrition to ms. cobel and the world, an inversion of the break room, and she is now the one being forced to keep going back to the severed floor by the company (part of the board agreeing to mark’s demands). when she gets in the elevator at the end of the episode it’s clear that she wants to be there about as much as helly does and yet they both have their reasons why they decide to stay (assuming helly is herself in episode 1 etc i know the prevailing theory but it remains to be seen). anyway. seems like everyone involved is fucking miserable in both their work and personal lives!

[dawn-the-rithmatist]

Crying over Helly’s fake version of the overtime events. Her coworkers can think her outie is a bitch but she won’t let them know she’s an Eagen. Something about refusing to be part of the thing that keeps them trapped because she can’t lose this community, the only one that she has. She wants to be someone boring, she wants to save the gorillas, she wants to have a garden and someone to tell when things are bad who will talk to a person who can fix things. She doesn’t want to be Helena Eagen, and she won’t give up Helly R’s friendships to the person who put her on the severed floor.

“We’re not the same. Us and the outies, we’re not, and I don’t think we owe them shit.”

[okayidontcare]

The Issue of Consent and Severance Discourse as a Whole

Spoilers for S2E4

So, I never post on Tumblr (and barely on other platforms for that matter). I am a lurker, and, as such, I see a variety of different takes about different things on a daily basis. I am prone to hyperfixations in media as a whole and, right now, I am obsessed with Severance.

So, I watched the new episode as soon as it was out and as soon as I watched the Mark/Helena sex scene and the reveal that it was in fact Helena all along, I knew it would create a discourse that would be unbearable, not because of the discussion itself but by the way people engage with this show (more on that later),  and I feel the need to express my feelings and my view on the subject.

Was SA or Wasn’t?

It… I don’t know. No one does. That’s the point. 

The show wants us to ponder about the autonomy of the innies and the outies, it raises this question not only in relation to the narrative of the show but in a sort of philosophical conundrum. And I think the way to discuss this has to be done with two things in mind: (a) with respect for other opinions and interpretations and (b) that we will never get a clearcut answer.

We can’t affirm Helena is a rapist, we can’t affirm she isn’t. What we can do is debate about it. Engaging with it with logic, as in, thinking that there is a logical explanation for something that is emotional in nature is counter productive. Let me demonstrate:

If Helena and Helly are different people then it’s SA. Then innie Mark didn’t cheat on Gemma and Irving saying that to him was wrong.

But, if Helena and Helly are the same person, it isn’t SA. So Mark cheated on Gemma and Irving was justified in what he said.

Do any of these sentences feel true to the show? 

Frankly, I don’t think so, because it doesn’t feel true to the emotional truth of the show. Because it is weird that Mark slept with someone else, but it is because this version of him doesn’t really know Gemma. But he also has a connection with Ms. Casey, because of the outie life. He also has a connection with Helena, because he knows Helly, but it’s weird because Helena is different from Helly. It’s a bit hypocritical of Irving to imply that Mark and Helly’s relationship is wrong when he was ready to blow up Burt’s marriage in the season 1 finale, but he is also right to point out it’s off putting to see them flirting. It is all these things at the same time. 

Because, from my point of view, they are different people and the same person at the same time. And I don’t think any of us can wrap our minds around this concept, it’s like Schrödinger’s Cat but about human nature instead of quantum physics. That’s what makes it fun, because not even the characters know what to make of it, so we see the emotional fallout of Severance rather than the ethical/moral one. And, to me, that is more interesting.

So we should discuss it, but also know that we’ll never reach a conclusion, because that would be oversimplifying the show and I think it just makes our conversation around Severance shallow. It’s a detriment to the show and to us. 

Let’s hear each other out, give different opinions, have productive debates about the show and what is saying about identity and humanity, about how it reflects on us. Don’t say to someone that has a different opinion than you that they are “watching the show wrong”, that they are “media illiterate”, like your interpretation is the only right one. If you do that, I’m sorry, but I don’t think you are actually engaging with the text, I think you are using Severance as a way to feel smarter than other people.

Let’s not treat our fellow internet users as the outies treat the innies. It’s easy to dehumanize people that we only perceive by their words on a screen, but behind each MDR profile picture is a real person with their own perspective that may not always align with yours and that’s okay, they are worthy of the same amount of respect as everyone else.

So I’ll say, at last, you are free to disagree with me. You are free to say that there is a definitive answer, that it was SA or wasn’t SA, that the innies and outies are the same person or they aren’t. I actually want to hear your take, I just ask that, when you type it, be respectful and understand that I have the right to disagree with you just as you have the right to disagree with me.

[aingeal98]

Helena and Mark awkward silent laughter one of the best scenes from last episode. He thinks she's feeling nervous and giddy because of the kiss but that they're on the same page and meanwhile she's trying to figure out the right password to get him to kiss her again. Is there a button she has to press or something? She's smiling and nodding and saying nice things mostly so why is he not kissing her like he kissed Helly? She's stuck here for hours hunting for his not so dead wife while posing as his current lover and she's not even getting any fun brand new experiences like kissing someone who cares about you. (Or thinks he cares about you because he thinks you're the version of you that you consider subhuman)

And of course she's not getting that kiss. Helly was decisive and always ready to take risky action meanwhile Helena is too scared to even say anything slightly mean because it becomes way too hard to stay in character if she lets that bitterness escape for more than a few seconds. So instead it's just she and Mark staring at each other for a embarrassingly long pause while she tries not too look too angry/hungry/anything but sweet and nice.

I do want Helly back but I'm loving Helena's adventures in pretending to be a good person. She's terrible at it and it's so entertaining.

[achvlles]

severance thought dump (s2ep3)

okay so I've been thinking A LOT about the show so ill just... uh... ill just dump it here... feel free to engage

SPOILERS FOR SEVERANCE SEASON 2

MARK S.

okay so innie mark and outie mark are, actually, on the same quest! WIFE SAVING! markhelly shippers I see you and personally I really hope we get a poly vibe going on for the future. would be nice

if I think for more than two minutes about that final scene of ep 3 I just start crying!! because of all!! The Implications!!! Adam Scott the actor that you are!!!

I get so emotional with mark I can't really think anything else

HELLY S.

she's dead or something guys innie helly is NOT here. I can't se how she's the innie its IMPOSSIBLE. helly is like the ultimate anarchist she would just try to hang herself again or smth

outie helly tho.... im not sure if she will be slowly getting into mark - or/and if she will develop a weird relationship with him (thinking about the awkward tension between them - and obviously when she is watching the kissing camera footage on repeat)

that said…. i love a tortured character… she really is in a limbo position; could help overthrow lumon & learn its secrets (how much does Helena really know about the goings-on of the severed experiment?) or win back her family’s favor… she clearly has a defiant personality! and she herself admits in one of the videos we are shown in the lumon event that “her father would love her to say she does it because of loyalty” but “she does it for fun”… that makes me think that maybe she has never been in a good situation with her family; maybe she undergoes severance just to get on their good side + a massively huge propaganda campaign, which could mean there is room for her to dwell between either betraying lumon or making lumon stronger

IRVING B.

give my boy HIS BOYFRIEND BACK!!!!! NOW!!!!!!

outie burt SPYING ON HIM?????

so far we've been given little information about his outie - we know that his dad was a soldier (?) and that he has some kinda plan maybe against lumon (?) I mean WHY ELSE would he have researched where the other workers are. and also keep it LOCKED.

my conspiracy theory is that his outie wants to destroy lumon from the inside or something like that idk

also gay ass moment between him and Dylan . irvdylan nation make some noise we eatin tonight

DYLAN G.

so Dylans wife will fall in love with innie Dylan THATS FOR SURE CMON.... outie Dylan framed as a kinda useless husband - who even if she loves, maybe is depressed (bc of not being able of "finding his thing"- and even so, "his thing" in lumon is something he doesn't even remember) and that can take a heavy toll on a family & marriage...

innie Dylan is just So Sweet... just finding out he has a wife and three kids outside and then MEETING THEM!!! someone that loves you!!!! for someone whose WHOLE EXISTENCE is limited to pressing keys and hoping that MEANS something... suddenly IT DOES! so my take is: Dylan will want to be on lumons good side, not only because of the family visits... but because he wants to provide for his family....

MISS HARMONY COBEL

idk anymore about you... I love you crazy bitch...

WHO IS CHARLOTTE???

okay... HEAR ME OUT... I really think she has her own schemes. her own plans... we are shown that she is born and raised into the kier cult - her house has an altar, she knows the principles BY HEART, and she got to be the manager of the severed floor! I can't stop thinking about the moment where outie mark confronts her, and in the exact moment he mentions Gemma, she goes crazy and drives away; does she know something and want to tell mark, but can't?so:

(1) she obviously has a personal investment with the "severed project" - whatever it is they do down there. she clearly wants mark to decipher the files or whatever the fuck they do...the work is important and mysterious... maybe so because Charlotte is also a severed employee - maybe like marks wife, who seems like cannot leave the severed floor - and decoding that final file is the answer? she gives me mad scientist vibes, like she wants her creation (mark) to fulfill the purpose she has... invested... him into? all of this would have to do about WHAT THE FUCK are they working on - is it a really fucked up brain experiment? are they decoding their own memories or something?

(2) all the above but harmony's motivation is to destroy lumen - yea also like outie Irving, from the inside. she has dwelled in the cult, maybe they took Charlotte and wants her back... but this time she's angry

THE GOATS

i love you goat people!!!!!!! i have a new wife and she is the ceo of goats!!!

maybe they… they raise cattle to harvest their organs and… experiment??? are the people with goat skins… goats turned into humans? do they turn humans into goats as well??? i really am lost here

WHAT DO YOU MEAN HUSBANDRY TANKS??

[lesbianalanwake]

Severance S2E4. bro what the fuck:

–Kier Eagan’s fake-ass made-up twin brother……….

–flipping from claustrophobia to agoraphobia on a dime in a frozen doppelganger fever dream. you want to see the fallout from reintegration? well fuck you, it's a slow process, and you have wait for it. you want to see the outside world? well here it is. in the most disorienting way and place possible. a mirror to S2E1 - not letting the audience get any solid footing or sense of direction, experiencing the same disorientation that the innies do. a rat-in-a-maze bottle episode where you don't see the outside world, except they ARE outside, and yet they're not. Lumon trying to absorb and rewrite the narrative - you're outside but on our terms.

–once again obsessed with the pacing. a growing uncomfortable tension, Lumon trying to drive a wedge between MDR (intentionally AND unintentionally…. Helena…..), something that could have stretched out for several more episodes or even a season, but Irving said “nah” and ripped the band-aid clean off to clear the way. like Mark abruptly accelerating via reintegration at the end of the previous episode. has a metatextual feeling to it…. if Lumon is trying to tug the narrative in a certain direction, then MDR, inside and out, is grabbing it and YANKING it in another.

–Helena having sex with Mark…. fucked up, in many ways rape by deception using Helly’s identity, taking advantage of not one but TWO people, but the second person is the same person as Helena with the same brain and body, but also NOT the same, but yes the same, but-..… Helena perpetuating what is expected of her by her family/company, the Board saying to give Mark “what he wants, including Helly R” because Helena is another kind of cog in the machine to be taken advantage of as the company sees fit. cycles upon cycles, cruelty begetting cruelty. ethical violations in the workplace the likes of which have never been seen.

(and the quiet part getting real loud now, with the implication that the waffle party ends with sex.)

but also. deeply funny that they listened to a campfire horror story/morality tale about how sexual urges are bad, made fun of it, and went “anyway……” comedy/tragedy two sides of the same coin etc.

–Helena isn't happy! everything she says is double-edged - playing a role (for Lumon, for MDR) and yet completely sincere (she hated reciting the nine principles - sorry dad!, she doesn't like who she is on the outside, she thinks the Kier mythology is ridiculous, etc - expressing herself only through performance). she questions and doubts but has buried it so deep that it only comes out in Helly R, except now it's starting to come out in Helena too. I wonder if Irving trying to kill Helena is going to do 90% of the work in radicalizing her, because she's playacting at love and friendship, and the cracks in the Eagan conditioning are starting to show (lying and obfuscating and yet! sincere in her own demented way), but her little overtures into affection are still deeply off and wrong and causing strife (even when she doesn't mean to) and perpetuating what she knows - smiling violence and power struggle is the language she grew up with, and Irving is speaking that language to tell her that her methods aren't working, that she can't keep pretending to have the life she wants, that it's going to take more than that. and the fact that Helena and Irving Bailiff are the same, sending their innies down to the severed floor with a purpose, while “Helly” and Irving B are being cagey about what they saw on the outside….. doppelgangers and foils.

–WOE! I wonder if Irving B connecting the dots through a dream is more of Irving Bailiff leaking through, since he would know who Helena Eagan is. just like his automatic military response to being stranded in the wilderness - survival-focused, on the defensive, much more physical and violent. reintegration but a second secret kind (taking sleep deprivation to new heights).

–the doppelganger animatronic (?) of Helly had a crooked neck, calling back to her attempt to hang herself, but it was a message directed at Helena…. and we didn't see Irving's doppelganger pointing the way on its own, just as part of the group…. much to think about.

–Miss Huang’s little “pretty cool, right?” made me sad….. so childlike for a second, like she should be. girl we're getting you out of there.

–the fact that Mark and Dylan and Irving have never seen fire, and barely seen the sky (and Helly still hasn't seen any of it). let alone all of the other weird shit going on…. the behind the scenes bit talked about Lumon wanting to scare the hell out of MDR, and yeah…. yeah.

–the fact that we don't see the immediate aftermath of Mark reintegrating but do see Mark S having Mark Scout hair here and there, and one crazy flash to his other self. something to be said about how Mark S exists because Mark doesn't give a shit about himself, and he's never really thought of his severed self as someone separate (and they're not, really, except they are, and aren't, and are, and aren't, and-). and Mark S doing something for himself, not for his outie, something that distinguishes him from Mark Scout, but it turns out to be awful in the end…… oof ouch. MUCH to think about.

–I think I’ll need to see the follow-up before I decide how I feel about this episode. it did a LOT, and it needs the fallout to contextualize it. leaning pretty hard on making the story fit the idea to have the corporate retreat, but I can forgive that because it was gorgeous to look at, and I'm obsessed with the idea of a disorienting switch to an agoraphobic vista that nevertheless remains a claustrophobic trap, and team-building retreat that leaves the team in shambles is really good.

–"I'm on the ice," Gemma, "Chikhai Bardo" as an episode title, etc.... they're building up to some real undead and rebirth shit, and I'm starting to think Kier Eagan's frozen fucking Disney head isn't a joke.....

[meret118]

Thoughts rewatching Severance season one:

Why does Mark have the etched crystal cube on his desk? Dylan says it's not a prize. What did Mark do to earn it?

Why does Selvig/Cobel live next to Mark? Is it coincidence or was she assigned to him in particular, and if so why?

source

What is the Mind on Peter's map? Is it a place in the building?

Dylan hears a crying baby in the break room, which I assume is his child. Helly hears an angry man mumbling. Her father?

We know why Mark and Helly agreed to do this. I want to know why the others did too.

Harmony Cobel quotes:

"A Handshake Is Available Upon Request."

"If you want a hug go to hell and find your mother."

The songs in Severance are such fantastic selections - Paul Anka's Times of Your Life when Burt is saying goodbye at his retirement/death day party, Enter Sandman during Pete's funeral, and I'll Be Seeing You when Mark is thinking of Gemma.

Character names:

Mark Scout:

It means ‘consecrated to the god Mars.’ Other meanings of the name include ‘God of war’ and ‘to be warlike.’ It may also mean ‘hammer’ or ‘defender.’ Mark could also be a topographic name given to a person from a place on the boundary of two districts. It is derived from the Middle English merke, Middle High German marc, and Middle Dutch marke or merke, all of which mean ‘borderland.’

A scout is, of course, who is the first to go into new territory, often to ensure it's safe for others to follow.

Irving Bailiff:

A bailiff[1] is a manager, overseer or custodian – a legal officer to whom some degree of authority or jurisdiction is given. There are different kinds, and their offices and scope of duties vary.[2]

Irving is the MDR employee most interested in following the rules, and the Book of Kier.

Helena Riggs:

The name Helena is a girl's name of Greek origin meaning "torch; shining light".

She has red, torch-like hair. Iinnie Helly wants to shine a light on what's going on inside Lumon. Outie Helly plans to be the face that launches, not a thousand ships, but taking severance mainstream.

Burt Goodman is a good man, or at least his innie is, and Harmony Cobel seeks harmony through the obliteration of free will.

Why is Cobel wearing Pete's(?) chip as a necklace?

"The Music Dance Experience is officially canceled." -- Seth Milchick

Irving, leave a note for your outie! He's obviously investigating Lumon. The entire final episode I feel this incredible tension of, "Hurry up! Hurry up! You're wasting time! Do something!"

"One day you will sit with me at my revolving." -- Helena's father to Helly. So, they are trying to develop a way to place someone's consciousness in a younger body? I kind of hope that's not the big secret. Creating an army of innies that do their bidding seems more realistic, and therefore scarier to me. Plus the other feels over done to me.

Helly reading the break room apology into the bathroom mirror before the speech gives me chills. The writing on this show is so good. It deserves to have a larger audience.

Helly's gown is perfect. The blue and green Eagan prototype chip colors divide down her body like severed lives.

They picked Helena, not only because she's an Eagan, but she's strong and driven, and those same characteristics will be their undoing.

It better be their undoing!

This show better not end with lumon winning. Not after the election. I can't take that. I have a horrible feeling Mark won't survive though, that the others will, but he will die saving Gemma. I'm not sure why, but I do.

Now to watch season two! :D