#some retconning happened

[marinette-buginette]

Kiyi is not a Princess - A Look At the Fire Nation's Line of Succession

It's not even that much about Kiyi. But the creators seemingly got so lost in the sauce that their ideas about how absolutist monarchies work are as good as taken out of Disney movies now. So, let's set the record straight.

The Fire Nation line of succession

When it comes to royal lines, there were multiple elements that went into setting the line of succession: descent, sex, legitimacy, religion etc. For the Fire Nation, the ones we have 100% confirmed are descent and legitimacy (this last one seen with the Camellia-Peony War, where Chaejin was excluded from the succession because he was born out of wedlock). I would have gone on a whim to say sex counts as well, however, it is a bit foggy. In the Reckoning of Roku, it is mentioned that Firelord Taiso believed Zeisan (Sozin's younger sister) would have been a more competent ruler but could never become Fire Lord due to being a nonbender (I didn't actually read the book, so if someone who did wants to pitch in with the exact wording, please feel free to). This implies that being a Firebender is a requirement, but being a woman isn't. However, it also implies that Taiso would have been fine with ignoring the descent part (Sozin was older) if he deemed fit. Skipping the firstborn in favour of the second one isn't unheard of when it comes to succession so sure. And he is the absolute monarch, if he wants to pass papers to change the line of succession, he can. It is unclear to me if there is any power in place to veto or block a Fire Lord's ruling on any matter so for all we know, if he wanted, he could have. Plus, the fact that Ozai got crowned over Iroh because it was 'Azulon's dying wish'. For the religion part, it seems like the Fire Sages have to perform the coronation and acknowledge the monarch.

So to make it more digestible, the line of succession (while Azulon was still alive) is: Iroh → Lu Ten (firstborn of the heir) → Ozai → Zuko → Azula. With Lu Ten dead, Iroh MIA (at the time) then we have Ozai → Zuko → Azula. When Iroh came back, he gets added at the end of this line of succession. I am a bit unclear on Iroh in current times because it looks to me like he rescinded his role in the line of succession altogether with deciding to live in Ba Sing Se and letting politically inexperienced Zuko rule instead of taking over for a few years to create some stability.

Right now, we have Fire Lord Zuko and his heir presumptive (aka an heir that can be displaced if the monarch has children) Azula. Unless he wrote a decree to take her out of the line of succession — which would require a lot more brain cells than the writers are willing to give Zuko, not that he had a lot of them when it came to politics to begin with —then she's next in line. It doesn't matter how much anyone wants it or not, if Zuko drops dead tomorrow, Azula gets the throne.

Now, onto the other matter.

How does one become a Princess?

Option 1: You marry into the royal family. For example, Ursa was styled as a Princess, as she married Prince Ozai.

Option 2: You're born in a royal line. For example, Azula is a Princess because her father is a Prince, her grandfather, at the time of her birth, was the ruling monarch of the Fire Nation etc.

Bonus Option it's complicated: Royals had a habit of having children out of wedlock sometimes. Said children, if acknowledged, could be granted titles (Count of X, Dutchess of Y etc.) . Getting acknowledged and a title does not automatically put you in the line of succession, though. For example, Firelord Chaeryu was forced to acknowledge Chaejin and avoid dishonoring his noble mother and her house, but he excluded Chaejin from the royal family.

So Kiyi is not a Princess. Simple as that. Neither of her parents are of the royal line.

Could she become a Princess?

Well, this gets interesting.

Let's start with the fact that Kiyi got a pretty bad deal in a class-based monarchical society.

First thing, while her mother is a noble, her father is a commoner. Even if Ursa's family became destitute after Roku's death because of political reasons, it does not change the fact that she is still nobility unless Sozin revoked Rina's title, which I am not 100% sure he did. We don't know anything about Jinzuk besides the fact that he was the magistrate of Hira'a. While magistrates do not have to be part of the nobility, they can be. He could have been a second/third/fourth son of a small noble family with limited power/resources, given the position he was given was in a place like Hira'a, which is what I am inclining towards. He could have also been just some guy, but someone appointed him, and as a rule of thumb, you don't just go into the street and pick a random person to appoint to an administrative and leadership role, even if it's a small town. Given that Azulon was set on Ozai marrying Ursa because she was Roku's granddaughter, whether or not Jinzuk was a noble, it doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. However, in Kiyi's case, it does if Zuko wants to give her a title. It's more stigma than anything because people can be given nobility titles for specific services to the crown etc. But this is not her only issue. Which leads me to...

Second thing, Kiyi is a bastard. Which, in my opinion, would hold even more stigma than her father not being a noble. Ursa never divorced Ozai. As far as we know, polygamist marriages aren't a thing in the Fire Nation, so her marriage to Ikem/Noren is invalid. Could she be granted a divorce retroactively by the Fire Sages? Actually, yeah. Because Zuko named Shyu as High Sage, which was like the one sound political move he ever did tbh. We don't see what the Fire Nation's stance on divorce is, but given that Shyu is a Zuko loyalist, he'd probably grant Ursa retroactive divorce from Ozai. I am not a legal expert, however, as far as I know, retroactive decisions tend to be reserved for correcting a mistake or omission in the written record. She was still married to Ozai when she went and married Ikem. Though technically, she married him under a fake identity (and so did he), which might make the marriage void regardless in the eyes of the law. Idk how Spirit involvement affects legal matters in the world of Avatar, but as things stand right now, unless we pretzel-twist ourselves to make excuses, Kiyi is born outside of legitimate wedlock.

Now, Zuko might not care. In fact, he probably doesn't. He could still give Kiyi a title, including that of Princess. It was not uncommon for illegitimate relatives of rulers to be offered roles/titles once acknowledged. The real question is if he would put her in the line of succession. Kiyi has no business being there because she does not have royal blood.

Could Zuko do whatever he wants, give her the title of Princess and shove her in the line of succession while taking Azula out of it for good measure? Sure, he can. He'd probably love that, in fact. But that leaves two things open.

One, nobility would not take kindly to a bastard child of a commoner with no royal blood being in the line of succession. If we also add the angle of taking Azula out of it, it would just increase their ire. There is already a long list of why the nobility is probably angry at Zuko (and should attempt to assassinate him a lot more than they do), but I think this one in particular has other implications. There might be nobles who are neutral about Zuko. Shamelessly discarding societal norms on a whim might make their perspective swing towards negative. It could make him lose goodwill he might have or potential allies.

Two, it will make the commoners wonder. If this random girl, raised as a peasant, with a commoner father, born out of wedlock, can be put in the line of succession just like that — while discarding a princess of the blood if we are at it — then… is the royal line not that special? The whole premise of a monarchy is that the monarch and their descendants have the divine right to rule. Being part of that bloodline gives you the right to rule. So if that can be discarded, if that bloodline is not all that important… should Zuko be Firelord? And most importantly, does the Fire Nation really need a monarch at all?

Kiyi is not a princess, and for the well-being of Zuko's reign — which is already barely holding together — he better not make her one.

[jerichogender]

In the spirit of those Joey posts that make you ponder the implications of his childhood, here’s an idea I’ve had for a while. I think part of why it’s so hard for Joey to hear other people say his father is a bad person is because the first person who ever did that in front of him was Slade’s half brother, an absolute lunatic who kidnapped Grant and Joey when they were very, very young:

Deathstroke Vol. 1 Annual #4

Wade isn’t concerned for their wellbeing at all, in fact his narrative that Slade is a ruinous force is used as a pretext to hit and humiliate Grant

And just as things go from bad to worse, Slade and Addie come crashing in to rescue them:

It’s not hard to imagine this image, his dad as a protector, being one of Joey’s earliest memories

They get the kids out of the cabin as soon as possible, but there’s a good chance Joey would’ve still heard some of his uncle’s rambling accusations spilling out the broken window:

If he did, then Joey’s earliest memory of his father being called selfish is directly tied to a cruel, conniving man all too eager to tear their family apart just to get what he wants. It’s no wonder that someone speaking badly of his dad would put Joey on the defensive. To admit that any of those things were right would be, in his eyes, to admit that Wade was right all along

[marimeeko]

*slams door back open and comes back into the room*

Ok you know what, no

You know what also doesn't make sense?? People are translating or clarifying the offer katsuki made and saying he was asking Izuku to be a SIDEKICK, and not open/partner at an agency.

But you know what, that doesn't really make sense either!

Bc they're also saying that in the MHA universe, sidekicks do not get hero ranked. And in the case of being katsukis sidekick, Izuku would be working under Katsuki.

So hold up!

You mean to tell me that Katsuki, who wanted to compete with Izuku, and race him to the top, who has long, LONG since gotten over his desire to put Izuku in his place/lord over him/boss him around,

You mean to tell me he wanted Izuku to be his SIDEKICK?

How can they compete like that?

Why would he want Izuku in a position where he couldn't compete on an equal ground? That was what he always wanted and worked for.

I'm just saying it's fucking weird that thats what katsuki asked for, because that's not what Katsuki has been trying to work for.

Isn't Katsuki wanting him to be a sidekick under him kind of defeating the purpose of his development, of the whole 8 hear process he went through to get Izuku back out into the field? Is this not inconsistent?

[akashis-waifu]

Regarding the new Aizen and Urahara information, the only ways Aizen can know Urahara before Yoruichi (considering that KisuYoru are childhood friends) are the following:

1. Aizen is way older than we think and has been keeping tabs on everyone. (I'd rather not lean towards this theory because it will further prove that he has no qualms stalking children. As much as I am aware that Aizen has no regards for moralities, this is just too much for my taste. Not that Kubo should care, of course.)

2. Aizen and Urahara could be relatives or siblings even. Sōsuke and Kisuke? I know that -suke is a common name among Japanese men, but these two have abundance of similarities that are hard to ignore. Both are intellectuals, loves doing research and experimentation, can be seen relying more on Kidō and Zanjutsu despite being an all-rounder, knows the truth about the Soul King. I thought that Kubo wrote them that way to demonstrate the difference in philosophies of "Superman" (Aizen, acting beyond good and evil) and "Last Man" (Urahara, a passive nihilist) by Nietzsche, but it seems that the author is cooking more.

[moonilit]

why is polygamy not an option for Dick Grayson and im asking the writers, like he loves both Kory and Babs? I don’t see Kory and Babs being together but if they are ok with it Dick can be with both of them? Like he have a family in both the titans and gotham ?? Instead of this on and off with both that leaving everyone hanging let them be happy

[boogermuscles]

its so funny to me that davekat has BEEN canon since Homestuck ended yet there are still people who are like "i hate post canon... but at least davekat is canon!". so they actually got shoved back into the closet!

[ninjasmudge]

What is the most chaotic thing leshy has done in your au(s), did he tape followers to the ceiling?

well... in the fnaf au i have, leshy is responsible for the equivalent of the bite of 87 and then carried on partying afterwards

[grayintogreen]

Respectfully, but a character can be and SHOULD BE allowed to be more than one thing without it being considered "contradictory", "retconning," or "negative character development."

[vigilskept]

a lot of this has already been said probably but what keeps getting to me about the statements around the worldstate decisions is that aside from all the reasons it feels really shitty as a player coming from previous games, it erases the interconnectedness of thedas as a continent

putting together the choices from origins & inquisition, you can leave ferelden with a monarch who will leave behind no heir who at this point will be appearing less and less healthy each time he is seen in public. you can leave orlais with an emperor who has effectively gained this position by coup and garnered support on the promise of restoring orlesian glory through war (against ferelden AND nevarra. btw.)

but sure. let’s say that’s a peripheral conflict for the north. already stretching the limits of believability given how quickly tevinter slavers and antivan crows were able to react to the unrest during the blight but sure. let’s say they have bigger things to worry about rn.

let’s consider the divine election in trespasser then. any of the 3 divines can propel the chantry to the very brink of fracturing based on their approval. if they do manage to keep it united, then you can have a chantry under divine vivienne who empowers mages more than ever before under the chantry or divine leliana who has abolished circles entirely and opened the priesthood to elves, dwarves and vashoth/tal-vashoth. because of the timeskip this is now a state of affairs that has existed for a decade. there is no conceivable way that the social & political implications of this have not reached across thedas

there’s admitting you wrote yourself into a corner with the branching and need to do some retconning to stabilize the worldstates… and then there’s saying “that was all in the South. it doesn’t matter here.”

[blenselche]

thinking about marshall being considerably more rude and brash and annoying because the Ice Queen was originally a water nymph, they had no relationship, there is no Simone

like that boy was purely raised by satan

[queenwendy]

Padmé was a senator, and a famous one at that. From the movies and shows, it also doesn’t seem like she hid her pregnancy at all. Did people like… ask who the father was? Or is being a single mother more normal in Star Wars? Is it normal for the Naboo but not Coruscanti? The reverse? If it would raise eyebrows, did Bail or Mon Mothma ever ask her about it? Were there holo tabloids speculating about the father? Did she just tell people it was a private matter, or was there a cover story? I really need to know because fucking imagine if a senator was just casually pregnant and nobody knew who the dad was. That would cause such a stupid stir in the media. Imagine the conspiracy theories, the smear campaigns, especially as Palpatine gained more power.

[origamiyoda]

Literally maybe nothing worse than realizing the dmc1 novel kind of Has to take place before dmc3, making Dante at the most like 16-17. Oh my god.

[rllymilerlly]

Never got around to posting this here but this is for a super hero au I’ve been workin on with my pals >:))

[batsplat]

casey is obvs funny with this rivalry stuff because on the one hand he's very 'well I don't care who I beat' (lie) and 'I don't motivate myself using my rivals' (also a lie) and then he's also repeatedly emphasising that valentino was ONE of his biggest rivals and he only competed against him a few years... like a lil side quest in the story of his career. Those Few Years where valentino was his big rival. whereas dani and jorge were his cohort so he did compete with them for a greater span of time... and this is technically true and does MATTER but it is also extremely noticeable in his output which rivalry he has the most thoughts about. and yes casey would say that this is because everyone ELSE cares the most about That One Rivalry the most and also his opponent being an annoying dickhead means it's the one he has the most complaints about... but at a certain point, it doesn't really matter, because there's still one rivalry you're talking about way more than any other. you can tell that he's at least given jorge's interiority a bit of thought, kinda went 'well he was arrogant but also Learnt From The Error Of His Ways and was maybe misunderstood so' -- but also he's not going beyond that, he's not examining jorge's soul, and he's not even doing any of that with dani. it's very much a rhetorical commitment to those other two rivalries. ultimately the point is that he's doing what he can to not talk up his biggest rivalry TOO much, because, you see. he Did Not Care That Much. (lie.) now objectively speaking this kind of framing literally does not matter, who cares which one of these was the most meaningful rivalry, but it's interesting that it matters to him!! casey's problem is that he is extremely sensitive and cares deeply about what other people say about him, but one of the things he's most sensitive about is the idea that he could let himself be mentally affected by ANYTHING, worst of all his rivals. they cannot be granted that much power over him. and all of this has kinda funny consequences in that he has pretty rigid patterns in how he talks about this stuff that are at times quite convoluted because he has to simultaneously emphasise that a) none of his rivals massively mattered to him, b) That Rival didn't matter more than the others, c) what That Rival did to him was completely beyond the pale, and d) none of that affected him mentally whatsoever. at most one of these is true. there are so many things casey wants so badly not to care about but it keeps spilling out of him anyway, this oozing sludge of resentment and repressed hopes and desires and frustration and longing and bitterness. he keeps giving himself away... he cares so much and he can't stand it

[worstloki]

Loki in season 2 saying that he did New York because he was soooo angry with his father and brother that he let his emotions get the better of him.......

[otome-dissection]

You know logically I know the Yakuza Kiwami pier scene was just a really awkward retcon rgg shoved into the story to accommodate for the majima everywhere system and the literal One (1) model change that Majima had in the entire original game, but after playing later games and seeing how their relationship plays out . Hm. Something something foreshadowing