#some people don't even know aro and ace are both separate things. some people don't know there is aroace at all

[faradaykay]

being aroace is crazy bc sometimes it's like. whoo yay i have such a wider perception of relationships that's so cool yay!!! and sometimes it's like. i hate this it sucks

[ooc-themis-cattails]

Can I just say how much I appreciate the diversity of ace identities in ISAT and all the detail about it?

(spoilers ahoy)

I love how at first Sif sees the porn scroll as "people doing fun things" but later admits it doesn't interest them at all. Their first response is to say what they know they're "supposed" to think it is, what everyone else is probably going to think it is. But then they learn that it's really ok to admit that they're not into it.

At first Sif is like "why does Beau like me?" but after a while they start to find him cute because they understand the emotion behind his feelings, and while they're not sure if they can actually take it as far as a sexual relationship, they're interested in figuring it out, because for them, that doesn't gross them out, it's just not a drive. This is so relatable to me and I love seeing it bc it's not the typical ace in fiction where like, this character is ace so we mustn't put them in a ship because we should assume it'd gross them out. Sif can be ace but not entirely horrified by sex, and Sif may be romantic (I don't know if even Sif knows whether they are romantic or not)-- I suspect they are demiromantic because it's the intimacy and familiarity of Beau's emotions that makes them start to feel things about the moment by the tree, to the point where they miss it when he doesn't try.

Mirabelle going through the dating service papers is the most wonderful scene because this is what it was like to be ace when I was in my early twenties. Most people didn't know it was a thing, and friends/family were very helpfully concerned that you should find a partner in order to not be alone, because the theory was that it was a basic human need for everyone. I did exactly what Mirabelle did, and had the same kind of reaction: "I have to pick one of these people to try dating because I have to figure out how to be sexually interested in someone so that I can do the whole partnership thing that everyone says you need to do in order to have a fulfilling adult life." Looking at pictures of people trying to figure out how to be attracted to them, or what you like, when the answer is really that you're just Not. And you're kind of torn because some part of you knows that this isn't going to work, but the other part of you legit believes that it's like staying hydrated, you have to do it for your own good even if you're not thirsty.

Mirabelle's being into fictional romance and shipping, just not into doing it herself, is also such a good detail. I'm not aro so I can't speak to that myself, but still, it's a thing. She's emotionally invested in the dynamics between people, she loves watching the details of how they play out, and that's completely separate from ever wanting to do it herself. I've seen it in others and I definitely get that from the perspective of an ace person reading smut-- you can very much enjoy a dynamic without wanting to BE in the dynamic yourself.

Sif coming to understand how attraction works from the outside: "Wait, you can't choose who you get a crush on? That explains so much!" The line made me wince because it's so self-deprecating-- they're probably thinking they're not good enough for Beau-- but I also very much appreciate the realism of how... nobody explains to you how attraction works because they assume you know what it's like, and you probably don't ask because it's embarrassing if they assume that you're an immature late bloomer with no experience of the world, rather than someone who will never have a libido no matter what they've seen. It's so easy to feel infantilized or to infantilize yourself if you're not comfortable with your ace identity. Both Mirabelle and Sif are young enough that they struggle a bit with whether this is really their identity or whether they've just not figured it out yet. In reality, at their age, this probably IS who they are. But they're also a bit hesitant to rule it out because it's really hard to know that you are NOT something, and (given that Mirabelle hadn't really considered the possibility that she's aroace) the culture doesn't seem to have a lot of representation or support for the idea. It's obvious to the player, well, if this is how they feel, then they're ace! But neither one of them can quite settle on that for sure. Because, unlike being attracted to someone where you can go "well that sure did happen", being not attracted to someone is a nonproof. So Mirabelle keeps trying, and Sif doesn't know that their reaction will seem valid to others (as evidenced by the change in how they describe the scroll). Odile, who is aro and who seems to be not entirely ace but isn't exactly the thirstiest plant in the garden, has a different position. She seems to pretty much know where she's at, which makes sense for her age, but we can't really tell if she's always been okay with it or if it's been an issue. We don't know if Ka Bu is a more uptight culture, or how long society has been normalizing non-hetero identities, but we do know she had no female role models, so if any of this heteronormative business was an issue, I imagine it contributed a lot to her feeling of outsiderness. I'd love to know more about how Odile's sexuality impacted her life but she's obviously not about to infodump it on a bunch of 20 year olds, so it remains a mystery. Nonetheless it's pretty great that there's an older aro character, illustrating that people have always been this way, it's just easier for young people to discover it now because they feel more allowed to not be heterosexual. [eta: @butterflyknifepoisoning reminded me that I've misremembered this and Odile isn't actually aro, she's had hatecrushes before and explained them to Mirabelle. Which I kind of sort of remember now! Not sure why I thought she was aro, my memory is crap sometimes. It's still a far cry from yamato nadeshiko, but yeah. Point taken]

...In the end, I find it extremely refreshing that there's a whole RPG party here and only ONE of them experiences sexual attraction, and it's a flamboyant gay-seeming dude with a poorly-kept-secret crush on an enby they/he. ISAT is so cool, it's the best aroace representation I have seen in fiction so far ever.

[scholar-of-yemdresh]

Hot take but the aggressive hardline separation of asexual and aromantic is actually EXTREMELY harmful to a lot of ace/aro people.

Angry rant under the cut

It's one to thing to go: "okay yes sometimes they go together but it's important to remember that for some people they can be different things and you can be one and not the other"

And go: "These are TOTALLY DIFFERENT 100 always separate there is no intersection EVER and if you DARE to be both then you have to piecemeal your identity to not uwu invalidate others(we do not care that we are invalidating you though lol) Don't you DARE ever experience them together you are CONFLATING"

It's like yall just want asexual to = alloromantic only and aromantic to = allosexual only.

You don't give a shit about aroaces, aces who aren't alloromantic but don't ID as aromantic or aros who aren't allosexual but don't ID as asexual.

The aspec community despises us. We get talked down to demanded to split our identities apart for your comfort. We can't exist in certain spaces because our presence there is a personal affront to allo-aspecs. Shout out to the alloaros that bitch about those disgusting aroaces just clogging up the aromantic tag ☺. Shout out to the alloaces who can still love and aren't totally heartless monsters 🥺.

Don't talk about ace shit in the aro tags, Don't talk about aro shit in the ace tags...what's that you're both? And can't neatly separate them and it brings you comfort to be able to discuss your whole orientation? SHUT THE FVCK UP YOU CONFLATING IGNORANT SHIT HEAD.

If you want to be in the aromantic community you have to leave your ace-ness at the door same for asexual community and disregarding your aromantism.

A personal example was an Aspec discord server I was in that had two media recs channels one for sex repulsed people and the other for romance repulsed. Now the issue came is that they didn't acknowledge someone could be both i.e both sex & romance repulsed/just looking for media that had neither sexual nor romantic content, what this lead too is that the romance free media channel was filled with graphic hookup erotica or sexually explicit songs and the sex free channel was just fade to black romance books 🙃...wonderful.

Or when polls/forms will ask you to pick your orientation but only things listed are het,gay,bi/pan yes even the ones made by aspecs, and what they actually mean is use the one that correlates to your romantic/sexual attraction...so fvck aroaces and non sam aces & aros?

And don't get me started on how you treat non sam aces & aros. You at least tolerate the self IDing aroaces, because they have the "curtesy" of separating themselves from the real proper aces & aros.(let's not question how many aroaces would prefer to just ID as just asexual or just aromantic but are forced into aroace identity because that would be "conflating" and they don't want to deal with the harassment).

"UwU don't say asexual when you actually mean aromantic" Some bitches don't use to SAM fvck off with allo-splaining my own sexuality to me.

It would be so much easier and save a lot of pain if yall just went : "asexual for some means no sexual attraction and it says nothing of your romantic attraction AND some people use it to mean no attraction generally". And "aromantic for some means no romantic attraction and it says nothing of your sexual attraction AND some people use it to mean no attraction generally" and "for some they are separated but others not so much as there isn't always a strict separation. Just be chill about it don't accuse people of being ignorant or conflating they know their identities better than you". But no ya chose violent aphobia instead.

But ultimately nobody cares because this shit is only harming the undesirable aces/aros the ones who are harmful stereotypes the ones that make you "look bad".

I know deep in my heart there are a lot of alloaces & alloaros that who would be happy if aroaces & non sam aces/aros didn't exist, there I said it. How can I not come to that conclusion when at every turn they shit on us. They talk about how the worst thing in the world is to be mistaken for one of us. That our representation is actively harmful.

A last parting spicy take it's either "asexulity and aromantism are full identities on their own and aren't modifiers" OR "actually neither asexual nor aromantic can stand on their own they need to be paired with another orientation and they actually are just modifiers" you can't have it both ways. 🤭

[part-time-pixie]

Plot twist - I say Chloe’s love interest in the winx AU…. Should be Kim….. 😱😱😱😱😱

Beauty and the beast but they’re BOTH beauties AND beasts in a way???? Chloe can be… Chloe and Kim can be kinda dumb.

BUT

Kim could help Chloe learn to care about people and be more social and make friends and be loyal, while Chloe would help Kim be more aware of his impact on others and he can USE “pushing his weight around” for his cause.

I know a lot of people don’t like the Chloe/Kim ship, but I think with their friends supporting them and the fact that they’re in separate schools in this AU (so Kim has to learn to be his own person without Chloe leading him around by his nose and Chloe cant just use Kim and has to learn her own life lessons on her own as well) would really make for an interesting set up for a good Chloe/Kim foundation.

I don’t see a lot of that ship. But pairing Chloe with Kim still leaves you with a lot of other pairing options. Or you could also just leave some people single - not everyone HAS to be paired up! That’s another thing I don’t often see explored.

And I don’t mean something like Alix being aro/ace, because I do see that fairly often. I mean just having someone choose to be single. They COULD be in a relationship, but they’re not interested in anyone at that point in time, or they want to focus on themselves first, or their career, or they’re just not interested in a relationship right now. It would be interesting for a side character to be in that position. I know that shipping is fun for the main characters of course, but maybe someone like Max, Alix, Zoe, or Sabrina may choose the single life! 🤷‍♀️

Sorry this got long lol

Can you tell I LOVE and am super invested in your winx AU already 😅

AHHH I LOVE THAT

^ actual princess in this AU

Honestly the best part about AUs to me is to explore different dynamics!! Even if I'm personally not a huge fan of a ship, it's still fun to throw characters into all kinds of scenarios and see what happens ✨ and the Chloe/Kim dynamic would work really well here, I agree!

And I also think it's nice when characters in media choose to be single (which is why I liked Frozen and the fact that they didn't give Elsa a love interest dsfds). This is actually something I feel like fits for Luka, too!

I enjoy picturing AUs like visual novels tbh, where each character has different romance options and we can explore their love stories together 😂 or their single lives~

ALSO PLS DON'T EVER APOLOGIZE FOR LONG MESSAGES I LOVE READING THEM AND I GET SUPER EXCITED SO THANK YOU !!

[redysetdare]

I hate those posts like "this is about aromanticism, don't tag as ace or aroace!" as if aroaces aren't aro enough because of our asexuality, and non-SAM aces relating to aros is somehow a bad thing. Also some of the aroallo accounts are so quick to regurgitate ace discourse talking points because they think aces are erasing and oppressing aros, I hate that so much

Yeah, to an extent I can completely understand where people are coming from when asking this. I have similar issues with people tagging autism posts as ADHD because they show up in my feed because of the ADHD tag even though the post only mentions Autism. It can be frustrating to be looking for posts and get something completely different. But on the other hand...it feels like some people are taking the idea of these tags way too seriously. Tagging is a minimal issue in the grand scheme of things. Tagging does not actually derail a post as much as people act like it does. Tagging a post you reblogged does not make that post show up in the main tags. I understand that AroAllos do not want to have their personal experiences conflated as Asexuality because it can feel like erasure when you write a personal experience about you identity only to have it tagged as something that is not you identity. But also I don't think people realize how much overlap a lot of aromantic and asexual experiences have. Acting like they are so incredibly different and can't have any overlap is willful ignorance at best and malicious separatism at worse. And it's incredibly disheartening as an AroAce to see how many Aro people seem to have gotten comfortable and even feel justified in the low-key bigoted things they've said against aces and aroaces.

Some of the absolutely wild takes I've seen can range from "AroAces shouldn't post in the aromantic tag" to "Don't tag your post as aromantic if it doesn't mention aromanticism [aka doesn't mention an experience in which the viewer deems as an aromantic experience]" to literal straight up acephobia or aroacephobia and it's absolutely wild because as someone who exists in both tags I've seen this happening basically solely in aromantic tags.

It's genuinely wild to me how we even got to this point in the aspec community where people are arguing over tagging to the point of trying to exclude certain aros from the aro tag completely because they feel less seen as compared to others and act like it's the fault of those other aspecs that they are being oppressed.

I was someone who was around when the Aro and Ace communities were mostly a united force. Because when the entire world was against us we at least had each others back. half the problems people mentioned when it came to the reason to split the community so drastically were not problems I ever actually saw. Hell they still aren't problems I see. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but I personally have not seen anyone assuming or saying that if you're aro you must also be ace, which makes me thing it's not actually as big of an issue as people seem to think it is. the aro and ace communities being united didn't mean that aromantic was a subsection of asexual, though I believe it'd be lying to ignore the split attractions model in the creation of the aromantic identity and how both the Aro and Ace identities as we know them today kind of emerged from that model.

As I said not too long ago: the separation of the aro and ace communities has done more harm than it's done help. We are making it easier for people to target us by splitting up the way we have. By making enemies out of fellow aspec people you give aphobes the space and comfort they need to start pushing us out again.

We are literally in the same boat. if that makes you upset then you can get on your own raft but you can't then demand everyone else get on their own rafts too or try to sink the ship that everyone else is on.

the tag discourse is stupid. there are more pressing issues to be upset about rather than tumblrs shit tagging system. This helps no one. If aroaces posting in the GENERAL AROMANTIC TAG upsets you THAT MUCH then you can literally go into the aroallo tag to find the content you want to see or better yet MAKE THE CONTENT YOU WANT TO SEE. If an asexual tagging a post they relate too with ace bugs you that much then fucking block them. it's not erasure when someone of a different sexuality feels represented by your post. If an aroace tagging a post as aromantic when you feel it is only about asexuality makes you that mad then you can literally block them. You cannot decide how someone should tag their posts because you personally do not know their experience. Grow the fuck up.

I'm rose repulsed. there are barely any spaces and posts about rose repulsed people in the main aspec tags. You want to know what I did? I made my own fucking space. i went to the romance and sex repulsed tags and posted there. I made posts about being repulsed. I have a fucking blog and a discord server centered around repulsed people. Yes it sucks when other people don't make content you like but that's when you have to accept you need to make it your damn self and not throw a fit over tags on tumblr dot com.

apologies for a long rant, If this ask was bait then congrats you got a rant out of me but also I think if people really want to block me over this instead of having a conversation like adults then so be it. Those who think this sort of exclusion is justified and correct are not people i want to be interacting with in the community. they are not people I want following me. I support AroAllos. I support all aromantic people. I understand where they are coming from in their pain. I do agree that they deserve more recognition because they often moralized to be morally bad for their existence and as a repulsed person NO IDENTITY should be viewed as inherently bad. I have no ill will towards AroAllos making posts about ther experience, they deserve to have their experience shared. But the way some people have been acting in the aromantic community is not acceptable and should be called out because at this rate some people are really toeing the line of the ace discourse that happened in like 2016 and as someone who went through that I REALLY don't want to see it repeat itself.

[bloggingboutburgers]

hihi! bit of a personal question so feel free not to answer, but what are your thoughts on getting platonically married and/or cohabitation? also (again dont have to answer if ur not comfortable lol) do u ever plan on having/adopting kids? im aro greyace and i havent rlly met any aspec people who also want to adopt/have kids at some point so im curious lol.

Actually yeah – I plan on both! My queerplatonic partner doesn't live in the same country as me and it's been taxing at times, I miss being close to them on days, and considering the laws, getting married would probably be the only way we can be physically together and stay together... So that's one thing. (Actually, even before realizing this practical aspect I was already having thoughts that I'd never considered marrying anyone but if I did, with them, it really wouldn't be bad at all 🙈)

Kids are also a long-term plan – my partner, who's also ace, wants to have kids in the future, and personally I'm not opposed to the idea. I love interacting with kids (in a non-creepy way obviously, just, they're so much more open-minded and less full of bullshit than adults, it can be so interesting to spend time with them, teach them things and learn other things from them), my only fear is that I wouldn't be a good parent and would do something wrong that'd make them suffer. But... I don't know, maybe having that fear is a good sign that at least I'll be careful? idk

My parents are allo, hetero people and they got divorced after one cheated on the other and resentment piled up for years and we had to bear witness to it. That sucked big time. I was scared of dinnertime and got so angry for the sake of my little brothers who suffered more than me due to being younger and possibly seeing it coming less. In a way, being in a queerplatonic relationship erases a lot of that fear for me and my partner. If they become romantically involved with someone at some point, considering my aro brain, I don't think I'll resent them, I'll just be like "fair enough as long as they're happy". I feel that in itself might avoid a lot of behavioral issues I've had to take from my folks. Also, just... I feel there's less risk of "cheating" to begin with because there's less risk of frustration at "the sex not being good anymore" – since we don't have it. I don't wanna put allosexuals in boxes or say this is the only problem that can lead to couples separating, FAR from it. But I just know I've heard some people citing that as a reason for couple problems, so... Yeah, y'know. That's one risk we don't have.

...I don't know, maybe I'm overly optimistic over things. Which is kinda rare for me. But in any case I hope this can be helpful and bring reassurance^^

[chairteeth]

have u ever explained ur aro-ace hcs for tounemu

Hmm, I don't think I have. They're partially based off of my own experiences as an aroace lesbian as well as those of my partner and other members of the community, which I felt vibed with the characters. The headcanons vary depending on the fic/AU, but there's some general stuff I can easily share, I think. A lot of this is just gonna be vibes and what I believe fits the characters/is most interesting to play around with. Since this is a sexuality rant, fully expect me to talk about the characters beyond the scope of their ages in canon. In case it gets really long, have a readmore.

First, assume a lesbian layer under the aspec layer of the characters. So, let me try Touka first, because she's probably easier to talk about. I like to headcanon her as demiromantic specifically, because I just cannot see her getting crushes or falling for anyone she doesn't already have a significant emotional connection to, but she does seem like she would feel romantic attraction. Only in a very demi way, though. Very "over the course of years of having a close bond" type. She doesn't feel to me like she'd be interested in traditional romance in any way, shape, or form. Sexually, I'm... I'm so tempted to say demi sapiosexual you have no idea. That's because I feel like both Touka and Nemu (especially Touka) are attracted to high intellect, mind you. If I had to say, though, for Touka I'd classify her as a gray-ace. It feels right. I believe that she has this base, very mild relatively "constant" level of it, ssssorta like the allo way, but when she does feel strong sexual attraction, it hits her like a powerful and relatively sudden slap in the face and is only triggered by highly specific things. And also you have to know exactly how to work her, etc. I really, really think it's more about the mind games and stuff for her, that's what she's into. Same for Nemu, but I like doing something a tad different with Nemu, give me a second to rant.

I have many gripes about what people do with characters like Nemu, especially when it comes from people who are clearly ignorant or insufficiently educated on the aroace spectrum. See, Nemu has a very specific set of traits that often make people go "oh I see her as asexual" but attaching that headcanon to these specific traits when you don't even have a solid basis of what that even means grinds my gears pretty bad. Some of these traits are: quiet, glasses, bookworm/nerd, wheelchair user/physically disabled. Fandom culture around these kinds of characters is rancid. And whenever I've seen people write ace characters, it's one of two things: exotic allo or completely celibate. Which is just so far off from reality. The aspec is a lot more varied than people may think, and while being asexual does not equate to being celibate, that also doesn't mean that sexual experiences are the same for an ace person as they are for an allo person. You cannot simply say "oh they're ace but they enjoy sex" and then depict them acting exactly like an allo person, the approach is completely different. And then there is the camp that thinks ace = celibate. Some aces are celibate, some aren't. Don't even pretend libido isn't a completely separate thing too. So most of the time, it feels like internalized ableism, ignorance, the general assumption of "nerds don't fuck" (while this is the case for some, a majority of nerds are freaks) etc., and since it especially applies to female characters, also some level of internalized purity standards or something. Which absolutely maddens me.

Anyway, I see Nemu as grayromantic asexual. To elaborate a little, I feel like through her passion for literature and just how much poetry and how many books she must've read, Nemu feels some level of curiosity towards romance and approaches it from a pretty writerly perspective that would likely only ever work on another weirdo. It feels like she's more of an observer, but although rarely, she does feel romantic attraction, and in a relationship it's like a permanent little warmth in her chest. Not overwhelming, not loud, but like the tiniest ever-present flame of pure fondness. My ace interpretation of her, however, differs from others I have talked to. For example, my partner does understand my interpretation but sees her as gray-ace instead. Now, I see Nemu as completely asexual, but much like Touka, academically interested in the whole... everything surrounding sex and kink. My personal explanation for that one "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Touka" scene in Miyuri's MGS is actually just that, simply put, the girls probably have conversations about sex and kink/fetishes. Not in a sexual way, but in a curious, intellectually-driven way, and that curiosity is what may lead them into experimenting when they get older.

The most fun thing about my interpretation of ace Nemu, in my honest opinion, is how it combines with other traits, like her high libido (headcanon we derived from canon, there are words in the background of Nemu's henshin and they're all philosophical concepts or other relevant stuff except for the word libido, that's where that headcanon comes from and it's interesting, so we're keeping it), her being a Buddhist, or her sadism, or the funny kink we suspect her of having (if you know you know). This is something I tend to touch upon more in AUs by honing her trauma to specifically highlight the issues she already has. Ace + high libido is already a potentially fascinating combination of traits, but when you add the religion thing and the kink aspects born from trauma, not to mention the rest of the trauma? It's so incredibly crunchy to rotate in your brain and analyze and play around with.

I think both of them would enjoy planning outings and the like just because they like planning things and they love quality time. They'd probably be trying to one-up each other often, Touka would delight in finding ways to fluster Nemu I think, and same in reverse, but Nemu does tend to be more dramatic, so she might enjoy the occasional theatrics as part of their little ludus thing. Who am I kidding, Touka "let's explode in a cool pose!" Satomi is also dramatic. I mentioned in my love styles essay that I feel like physical touch is vitally important to them, because of sensory craving and having been touch/affection starved as kids (yk, in a hospital, particularly Nemu), so that is one part of why I think they'd enjoy physical affection, from handholding to sex. The intellectual aspect of the kink experience also feels important. You can explore so much fascinating stuff about a character through their sexuality (general usage of the word, not specifically referring to identities here), and it bugs me a little that most nsfw works I've seen (not necessarily TouNemu), particularly Eastern ones, are just... character assassination galore. From my point of view, I don't understand why you'd ever want to do that, but I can at least comprehend the concept of "this is meant to be fapping material and that's why it's like that". It's not what personally interests me about nsfw, so I tend to stay away from any that isn't produced by myself or recommended to me specifically by someone in the aspec who I trust.

To summarize:

Touka demiromantic gray-ace

Nemu grayromantic ace

Both dramatic enough to pull off romantic stunts for funsies

Both hungry enough for enrichment and/or horny enough to indulge at some point (probably their teens, maybe their 20s if they're stupid enough, I could easily see them sharing a house and possibly a bed for like ten years and acting every bit like a married couple without realizing- this includes sharing a bed because as per new canon info, Nemu requires a body pillow, and Touka is probably the perfect size to be hugged while sleeping), but not the way an allo person/couple would. Being the freaks they are though, you probably couldn't even tell they're aspec as an external observer

[golisopod-mutual]

WAUGH on my dragon petsite i play, i have a project where i give away dragons in the aroace flag colors for free. ive talked abt it before. i do it bc there's tons of people doing other pride flags but not the sunset aroace one and i wanted to give my community some rep yknow. it cost me a lot of in-game money to get it going and i dont make a profit so i actually lose money on it but idc abt that i just wanted to do something nice for my community.

anyway someone just thanked me for committing to the project and they said "It's so nice to have an active, kind AroAce community rep., esp. in a social game like this. :]" and im. WAUGH. like i know it's a silly browser petsite its not changing the world. but it kind of speaks to a feeling i've had for a while which is that aroace identities weren't really a well known or well represented thing when I was growing up. even now when separate aro and ace are more widely represented, aroace isn't. and not that I see myself as some bastion of the whole community or anything. but if I can make other people in the community feel more seen, esp since our identity is still often overlooked, I want to do that, yknow? like I think back to when I was a teenager, how much of an impact it would have had to see my identity represented somewhere, or see a house flying my pride flag. idk. obv I don't claim to be some representative of the whole community. but seeing your identity in stuff like that can have an impact, both on individuals and in making the identity more well-known in wider society. it's why I have an aroace flag in my front yard. i've never seen proof of another aroace person irl. I've almost never seen my flag represented in pride posts online. on the stupid browser petsite I never saw anyone repping my flag. be the change you want to see etc etc. idk, but making my fellow aroaces (esp the baby aroaces) feel seen and represented is something i care about, even if i can only do it in little ways.

[seeingteacupsindragons]

Hi, how are you? First of all, thanks so much for your blog, because of you I started "Jeweler Richard" and "Moriarty the Patriot". And I love both of them. Since this last 3 years, I've lose interest in het romance and already drown in BL & GL manga/manhwa (especially BL). But those two stories that you recommended are very different than BL series that I read until now.

I also read in your blog that you're an ace. Can I ask hiw do you know that? Sorry for the sudden ask. It's just I lived in a country that anti LGBTQ+ (even in my family). I'm mid 20s but have no desire to have sex or romantic relationship with anyone. Eventhough I loved romance fictions and my hobby for the past few years are reading romantic fanfics. I love reading or watching other people's relationship but I don't want it for myself. Am I ace? What's the different between ace and aroace?

My mother for the past 20 years (since divorcing my father) never again in a romantic relationship, doest it mean she's also ace? Not that I can talk about this things to her, she's very strong in a religion that she truly believe that everything LGBTQ+ related must enter hell....

Sorry for this long ask, @seeingteacupsindragons , do you belive that I want to learn LGBTQ+ because of fanfics and danmei novels that lead me to love BL manga/manhwa....? Weird right?

Hi Anon! I had to pull this in to Word to write up a response because there’s a lot here, and I wanted to give you a good reply that really addressed things you have to say.

To start: I’m glad you found things you like through me! Yay! Both series are obviously very near and dear to me. Neither are BL, either, so that’s probably why they’re so different: they don’t have to confine to those genre conventions, because they…aren’t BL.

Anyway, wanting to learn about queer stuff because of fanfics and danmei and BL and manga and manhwa and fiction more generally is…

Actually pretty common.

I know a lot of people who started their exploration of their own queerness that way…and that includes me. It’s probably the most popular, accessible, and easy for teens to get ahold of, form of queerness or at least some sort. Or at least it used to be; it does seem that’s starting to change a bit with social media becoming more common. But it’s the first place a lot of people even saw something besides heteronormativity and the gender binary, or at least the first place they were expected to properly think about it (especially with things like Sailor Moon being censored in the US and likely other countries), and it’s popular around the ages people start to question this kind of thing.

Aromantic and asexuality are related, but separate concepts (for a lot of people). Aromantic means experiencing romantic attraction to someone rarely, never, or only under specific circumstances. Asexual means experiencing sexual attraction to someone rarely, never, or only under specific circumstances. “Ace” means “Asexual.” “Aro” means “Aromantic. “Aroace” means someone who is both.

As for how I know I’m ace…well, honestly, when I first encountered the word and definition I was like, “That’s what it is???” because I knew myself already by that point. Aro took a little longer for me to settle on, just because romantic attraction can sometimes be a little trickier to pull out from other things than sexual attraction often is.

And aro and ace are larger than simply not being interested personally in being in a sexual or romantic relationship, although those are for sure pretty common signs. And being interested in them in fiction when they have nothing to do with you is also reasonably common.

To help maybe explain some of this with characters you know, at one point, Tanimoto has a comment about how not experiencing a thing (romance) is different from thinking it has nothing to do with you at all, and I think that’s a pretty good explanation: you can be single and not interested in a relationship, but there can be reasons for that other than simply not being attracted and being entirely outside the…concept of wanting one with someone. And in volume one, Shimomura recognizes that the way Seigi calls Richard beautiful might be the same way a person calls Mt. Fuji beautiful and compares it to his own experiences, and I appreciate that, because he’s recognizing the existence of non-sexual and non-romantic attraction. That’s a really ace-affirming moment, too. That’s what being ace feels like often.

I don’t know your mom, and couldn’t say what she is. I have heard of some older people realizing they were ace or aro once their kids came out and they realized it was…a thing, just the same way when their kids might be diagnosed with something and they realize their experience wasn’t actually typical. Her not being in a relationship for 20 years could be for a lot of reasons, and it doesn’t necessarily mean she’s ace.

I don’t know if you’re ace, either. That’s a label only you can pick for yourself. Maybe it resonates with you! Maybe it doesn’t. But it’s really up to you, not me or anyone else.

[potatopossums]

partnered aro here.

i have been having some thoughts about what it's like to be in a relationship, even if it's difficult to label what type of relationship it is (romantic, queerplatonic, alterous, etc.). I've also been having some thoughts about my queer identity in regards to how my aromanticism affects my lesbianism and vice versa, and their relationship to gender. it's probably worth a larger post, but if anyone is curious or has comments to add about their experiences, please feel free to ask/comment/reblog/direct message.

incompletely, things I've learned so far whilst in a partnership:

Sex is cool to think about but not so much fun in practice..... irl, it can be absolutely fabulous; it can also be alright; it can also be a little boring and uncomfortable. the best part is, i don't have to do it if i don't feel like it. that's pretty cool. who cares if my medication is lowering my libido (and who cares if my meds aren't the problem, and I'm just a sex-favorable/neutral ace).

Sex usually consists of me pleasuring my partner and jerking myself off afterward, and I'm okay with that...... it's not always one-sided giving (and if you honestly think that giving to your partner is one-sided by default, as if you're suffering through the giving and waiting painfully for your turn, you really need to reevaluate how you're doing sex, because I'm sitting there enjoying watching my partner, exploring her body, listening to her breathing, reacting to her movements, and all of that is very enjoyable for me while I'm giving. orgasm is not the end all be all of sex). plus, i don't tend to receive orgasms because i have vaginismus, which doesn't allow others to penetrate me. i can penetrate myself and achieve orgasm when I'm controlling everything, but it is uncomfortable and painful still for others to control penetration, which is required for my orgasm. that said, i also receive external, non-penetrative touch and stimulation (such as receiving head: wowie 😵‍💫🥵). for where i am, I'm comfortable with things, and that's great.

Sex with myself is so good..... my brain has always been really good at thinking up fun scenarios that excite and turn me on. i know exactly what images push me to orgasm. i like orgasming. thanks to my medications, the orgasms aren't as strong, but i know what time of day to masturbate so that i actually can orgasm. i don't always masturbate nowadays, but when I do, it's a really lovely self care moment, and i wish masturbation was talked about that way more often. it's not for everyone, but I've definitely heard masturbation referred to as anything from "something lonely, loser singles do" to "not nearly as good as being with someone" and i honestly beg to differ on both of those. masturbating is not an indicator of loneliness or inadequacy, and it's not some second-rate pleasure in comparison to sex with a partner. masturbation is its own action, its own thing, and it has no moral or status implications. i love doing it, and i always have, and i love doing it alone.

I get the most out of sex when it's framed as a sensual experience, rather than a sexual one..... like ok, I'm not the best at figuring out the difference between sexual versus sensual, but I'm mostly interested in what feels good. if the only thing that separates them is genital touch or sexual arousal, then fine. but sometimes non-sexual touch arouses me sexually! so, in my mind, what is the point of separating them, i ask! if sex feels good, then it was a good sensual experience. if you're not paying attention to how things feel regarding your five (5) senses during sex, I'm not sure what else you're paying attention to? i mean, no shade to paying attention to other things that don't fit in the senses category, and no shame to people who categorize these experiences differently. those experiences and perspectives are valuable and wonderful! for me, it's just all sensual, even if it's sexual too. sexual gratification, for me, is in a sensual category (and also a mental one, but usually my mental additions to sexual experiences are visual in nature, such as picturing a scene/location or a fictional character).

this is all i have for now, but if i think of more things, I'll reblog and add more to this list.

as always, i welcome discussion on these topics, as it is so important for our community to share and connect over similar and differing experiences! celebrating these things about ourselves is essential to our pride, and we deserve to be ourselves fully and openly.

[miniscrew-anon]

okay!!! i was thinking!!! and i have An Idea!!! it might be vomited into the inbox tomorrow. but in the meantime here are Fourshadow headcanons :D

-four is aroace but it took him ages to figure it out because he never really cared. he eventually sat down and researched it and figured it out.

-shadow is still uncertain. he doesn't really experience any attraction, but he still likes sex and romancey things so he's maybe on the aro-romance positive ace-sex positive side (but he's not going to research that- four will find it out and he'll be like 'alr cool sounds accurate' and move on with his day)

-they'd known each other for like a year or so when they started dating BUT FIRST they were literally friends with benefits (except like. that whole drabble.) because shadow was Horny (tm) and four was like 'ig i like him??? maybe???? whatever' and that lasted for like 5 or 6 months until they said they were dating

-but four realized he didn't really have romantic feelings for shadow and felt really bad for like a while

-and then shadow realized something was wrong and asked and then four was like 'i think we should break up i don't actually love you'

-and then shadow was like 'wait but??? idc??? we can stay friends but this is working' (because it was working fine (and also shadow wasn't sure if he felt romantic feelings but still liked what they had going on hence the possible aro-romance positive so he just didn't say anything because he liked what they had and felt like it was fine))

-and so they took off the Dating label and just continued doing the exact same thing

-so if you were to be technical about it they are in a Queer Platonic Relationship but neither of them know the term (yet...four will eventually look it up but it won't change anything for them) so they just say partners :D

wow that got long. hopefully i will be able to write more this summer because i passed all of my exams after a stressful semester but thank hylia. i will have more time to write! (maybe i'll make an ao3...that would be wild can you imagine) hopefully this was coherent if there isn't another drabble in your inbox in like 2 days call me out and i'll write it

-secret third thing

GOD YES PLEASE I LOVE WHEN PEOPLE SHARE THEIR HEADCANONS WITH ME

All the sexuality stuff for them I big agree - Four is pretty solid in his aroace-ness but Shadow likes to avoid labels. He enjoys being a big ol’ mystery in every way he can and just hovers around the grey-romantic area. He does like sex and he’ll go seek it out but he doesn’t bother with dating because he doesn’t find the concept appealing. Someone you have to text frequently and who you have to periodically see at arraigned times for dates? Nah, he prefers a very flexible relationship that lets him slink in and out of someone’s life at his own leisure. Maybe disappear for a month at a time. Then crawl in through their bedroom window and steal their bed for four days. He’s very much like the feral alley cat you feed but can’t take home with you because he’ll scratch and claw.

And I love your thoughts on their relationship! It’s funny but I always pictured Four and Shadows relationship working almost backwards to yours lmao. From friends to completely unspoken QPP to QPP with benefits

They meet young and go through Some Shit. And by the time they get through it they end up kind of attached to each other despite their differences. So they stick together during a very turbulent time in their lives when they’re drifting along trying to keep their heads above water. During this time nothing is certain and so their bond gets even stronger because it becomes the one thing they can both kind of count on even if everything else is burning to the ground around them.

Finally they get their shit together (kind of) and at that point they’re literally inseparable. Except when they want to be separated. Then it’s a whole lot of ew get away from me you’re so annoying go die in a ditch (affectionate) lmao. But they end up in it for the long game. And yeah they might go off and experiment with others (Four with dating, Shadow with sex) but nothing ever really comes of it. They figure out what they like and that’s kind of that.

The QPP is never brought up. They just find their way into it. Like everything between them, it goes completely unsaid but clearly understood. They have never said it aloud but they very much understand that they are eachothers person.

(Then one day Four gets curious enough to take up Shadow on one of his billion joking pick up lines. And Shadow is like “wait really? You sure?”

And Four is like “I can change my mind if you want” and Shadow immediately takes off his clothes like “no takebacks let’s do it”

And now they’ll sleep together whenever Four feels like indulging Shadow. And if he isn’t into it at the moment Shadow can go off and find someone else if he wants. Four’s not possessive)

Anyway that’s how I’ve always seen it. I do love the way they literally never speak to each other and kind of just read each others minds so I wanted to build that into their relationship. I imagine one day they’ll need to talk it out but both of them are comfortable with what they have now so as per usual they will refuse to talk aloud about anything serious lmao

But I do love your headcanons too. I do love the one about Four feeling bad about not being “in love” with Shadow meanwhile Shadow can give less of a shit about what label they’re using. It’s very much a Them thing to do ❤️

ALSO WOOHOO CONGRATS ON PASSING! The end of semesters were so dang stressful I could not be paid to go back to that. Don’t stress about send me anything - go take a nap instead omg you deserve it lol. (Although I do eagerly await anything you happen to drop by into my box. It’s always the highlight of my day 😆)

[redysetdare]

As another non-split aroace, you're so correct for saying that we're treated as the punching bags of both aro and ace communities. Like if y'all can accept and support straight aros and aces but are hostile towards aroaces, you're just aphobic. Yes even if you're aro/ace yourself. Aro spaces nowadays literally have the same attitude towards aroaces that exclusionists used to have towards asexuals, that we're weird freaks bringing purity culture into their "safe" communities just by existing and therefore need to be pushed out. And ace spaces still act like we're the bad guys and need to be pushed out of their "safe" communities because we can't romantically love other people, which makes us heartless monsters apparently. It's just exhausting. I've never seen aroaces being so hostile towards non-ace aros and non-aro aces, we're always trying to uplift their voices and bring awareness to their issues. But the moment we try to talk about our own issues in aromantic or asexual spaces we're told to shut up and let them speak over us because we somehow have it better than them. Not to mention the pressure to split your experiences into aro vs ace and prioritise one part of your identity over the other if you want to be taken seriously in those spaces. Like sorry but for some of us our aroaceness is interwined not split. But we're still aros and aces, still a part of your community. Stop trying to push us out of our own communities on the basis of aphobic stereotypes.

Honestly I've been kinda biting my tongue on it for a while because I understand why Aro and Ace ppl have been trying to separate the communities. it can be frustrating to constantly be paired with an identity that you don't relate to - but i feel like so many ppl have taken it way to far. They've taken the relatively understandable stance of "Aromantic and Asexual are not the same identity" and pushed it to the extreme of "Aro and Ace are so completely different they have nothing in common and NO overlap" and the worst part is i don't think anyone has particularly noticed.

Idk I was most active in the aro and ace communities when we still kinda shared communities. the idea that aro and ace were separate was still a thing (hell, aroaces were the ones helping to push that distinction. we wanted people to recognize our aro identities too, yknow.) but we recognized the overlap and similarities and supported each other... now it just feels like im seeing post after post reminding people not every aro or ace person is aroace and that people shouldt tag aro posts as ace and vice versa and "no ace people cant relate to aro experiences" "no aro people cant relate to ace experiences" because "They are so different they are completely not the same and don't have any overlapping problems at all" and as an aroace it sucks!

it sucks feeling forgotten in my own communities.

It's almost feeling like they are blaming us for there being this idea that people are are Ace must also be aro and people who are aro must also be ace. Like they know they cant get mad at the allos so they get mad at aroaces and act like we are the reason allos think this way. It's like aroaceness is only brought up to talk about how "Not everyone is aroace" or "aroace characters are so much more prevalent in media (Proceeds to only talk about ace characters)" or how aroace ppl must have an identity that means more to them - how their aro or ace identity must be more important or effect them more because they can't possibly intertwined and overlap and "hey you tagged your post with aro and ace tags but obviously its only about aromanticism/only about asexuality so remove some of those tags because it's annoying me" or worse I see aromantics being acephobic or asexuals being arophobic and it's like.... where do i fit in?

people think aroace ppl ran both communities as 1 community and they say it was bad and that we need to separate - but from my perspective it was two communities who worked together. the only difference now is that aroace ppl are getting pushed to the side. thrown under the bus. "you dont need rep you have tons of rep. society loves giving aroace rep!" and "not everyone is aroace. you're experience isn't universal and so you shouldn't talk about it" Aroace voices just got smaller. we got quieter. because our own communities decided we were privileged. we were more accepted than they were. or worse that we were actually the real freaks for not feeling both sexual and romantic attraction. we weren't palatable enough - there was nothing that could be used to normalize us. and besides, it was easier to just only fight for one set of rights, right?

and part of me understands it. it sucks. it sucks to always be a footnote. but guess what - aro and aces and aroaces are footnotes of the queer community. we're stuck here together and instead we're fighting over who's the more important footnote. we are all in the same boat and we're acting like we're not and trying to sink the ship forgetting we're all on it together.

[quelsentiment]

3, 15, 17, 18 for the weird writing asks!!

Thanks Fee!

3. What is your writing ritual and why is it cursed?

Okay, so I used to write on Google Docs for the longest time and then a few months I told myself that maybe it wasn't the best privacy-wise. So I've switched to using Open Office, which I think helps me focus better because having it on a separate window away from my web browser reduces the temptation to stop mid-sentence to check another tab, you know? But at the same time, this feels VERY cursed because my version doesn't have any kind of spelling check, plus my WIPs are now saved on my internal drive, and since I don't make backups of them that often, I live in fear or my laptop dying on me and making me lose weeks of progress

Oh also, there's basically no word count lololol

Am I gonna do anything about any of this though? No, we're raw-dogging life over here 😎

15. Do you write in the margins of your books? Dog-ear your pages? Read in the bath? Why or why not? Do you judge people who do these things? Can we still be friends?

I already answered this earlier but the short answer is I currently don't, but I don't judge people who do (unless it's a library book or something)

17. Talk to me about the minutiae of your current WIP. Tell me about the lore, the history, the detail, the things that won’t make it in the text.

I guess I'll talk about my fic for the Zouis Fest (although it might not even be part of it in the end, because I keep writing for the Dream Team fandom instead rip)

Anyway, I'm still not sure exactly what I'm doing with it. Like the main idea is that it's a Zayn-POV, canon-compliant(ish), present day fic where they run into each other in Hong Kong and are kinda forced to acknowledge what happened all those years ago, and figure out how to move forward. So like, lots of angst and feelings of betrayal and conflict and serious conversations because that's basically all I know how to (and all I want to) write lol

At the moment I'm not sure whether to keep it focused on their friendship or introduce some kind of romance aspect to it (toying with the idea that they had some kind FWB situation going while they were in the band). But since it's canon-compliant I'd feel kinda iffy doing that. I've never actually written canon-compliant before, and I have to admit that it scares me a bit, also because I've been extremely removed from the 1d fandom lately

Anyway one thing I'm sure about is that I want a scene to be inspired by the following verse from Blur's My Terracotta Heart:

And when we fly tomorrow over the Java seas And my younger maps will be there with me 'Cause they remind me of swimming out too far one day Then the coral was gone, but I didn't care anyway

Something about Zayn going too far to swim and Louis watching him almost drown but not realizing what's happening, as a metaphor for what went wrong between them

Yeah, that's pretty much all I can share at the moment. I should really get back to it

18. Choose a passage from your writing. Tell me about the backstory of this moment. How you came up with it, how it changed from start to end.

Zayn Malik is, without a doubt, the most beautiful person Louis has ever had the privilege to lay his eyes on. To the point that if he were to explain aesthetic attraction to someone, he’d probably say something like: “The feeling I get when I look at that gorgeous guy in my English 586 class.”

That's the opening line from Situations Like These, my aro/ace Zouis fic from the first Zouis fest.

It's one of those stories that really started out with just a scene rather than an idea/concept, which I think is the case for a lot of my fics actually. I mean, I did have a prompt for this fic, which was something like "they're both ace but don't tell the other for fear of driving him away", so it was pretty vague in terms of setting and everything else, really.

I remember coming up with that opening scene and the bits of dialogues at my grandparents' place right before getting on the road back home with my parents, and since I'd rather die than write in front of them, I just had to make sure to commit everything to my memory by repeating it all in my head throughout the day, until we were finally home and I could write it down. But that's something I do a lot, I think, just come up with stuff (typically dialogue) at inconvenient times and praying that I remember it by the time I can write it down 😬 And then of course when you actually settle in front of your computer, you feel like all your inspiration is gone

Anyway, I think this might be one of my favourite opening scenes I've written, I feel like it's pretty fun while setting the tone and dynamics for the whole fic

writing asks

[audioandart]

not to derail your post, that response of apples and whatnot is great. Absolutely priceless and beautiful. Apples are wonderful! And the casual reminder to rejoin the real world. But god I'm so tired of this debate. Like.

Let's assume you are actually talking about a straight couple. And I mean the one you're picturing, with both people being straight cis people. (And not a straight passing couple so to speak, because I know some of y'all are actually talking about these people and I will get to that.) This isn't a new thing. Straight people call each other their partner all the time, and have for a very very long time. Actually, I'd argue I find it better than the alternatives in many instances because partner inherently implies equality. In a world in which one partner (usually the woman) is meant to submit and be passive and docile towards the other, and do what they want etc, I find the usage of partner to immediately imply that this couple, at least not actively, maybe subconsciously, does not do that! I'm not saying it immediately means that couple in no way is sexist or controlling, but it is a good sign. It's also not the most common term used by straight couples which means it's usually to some degree, intentionally and deliberate that they are using it.

Let's go back to straight passing. You don't know if that couple is actually straight. You don't know if one or both of them is actually trans, non binary, any other gender combo, and they simply look straight. You don't know if that is actually a butch lesbian and not a man. You don't know if either of them are on the aro and/or ace spectrums. You don't know if they are queer in literally any way for sure unless they tell you, specifically that they are not queer in any way. And there are straight couples that ARE queer. Picture a straight couple where both people are trans, MTF and FTM. Or literally any other number of combinations. You shouldn't assume that is a straight couple. Fuck, even a straight couple where one of them maybe doesn't like the gendered word like boyfriend for example maybe, maybe the guy doesn't like being called that. He might be a cis guy but he doesn't like being called boyfriend, maybe he prefers partner. It happens! (I am speaking from personal experience here btw. Not a boy but the cis with gendered words part.)

We. Do. This. Every. Year. I mean EVERY year. We debate this, we talk about the same points, we go in circles. I am usually silent but this time I just. I gotta speak a little. We debate this. We debate the lesbian men stuff, we debate the validity of aro and ace people. (Which, I genuinely can't even believe this one. There is actually science proving their existence, why are we still debating this one.) We need new talking points! Preferably ones that matter, like how regardless of how "valid" a queer person is, (already a crap point,) are they getting their rights? Are they being killed simply for existing, etc etc. But I mean at this point I'd kinda take new bad points too, like we need something new! We argue the exact same things. We need to grow as a community or we will be taken apart by the people who want to hurt us and they will separate us, harm us, and shove us back underground. Do not undo your predecessor's work. Do not lose what they have given us because you cannot unite under something that matters. Stop arguing about this stuff and about each other's validity and recognize that in the face of bigotry and death, it doesn't even matter! We can argue about this when we know for a fact we don't have to worry about being actually killed in the streets anymore! Please and thank you.

3 days into pride month and I've seen a new different topic of queer discourse on each day. Do people not get tired of doing this shit every fucking year

[aromantic-spinda]

Aspec Basics

With Jaiden's new video, there are a lot of new/baby aspecs just realizing their identity. If you're new to the community, welcome! Some things that this community discusses may be confusing to you since you likely don't know what everything means yet. There's theories, terminology, microlabels, subcultures, and on and on. I feel your pain, I was in your shoes once! So, if you're new to the aspec community on Tumblr, here's some basics I feel you might want to know!

(Put under a cut because this got longer than I expected it to be.)

~

1. Being aromantic and/or asexual is a spectrum.

You know how the definitions for these orientations mention "little to no" attraction? The aro and ace spectrums are meant to include those who have that little bit of attraction, as well as those who have no attraction. For instance, some aromantics or asexuals may feel attraction very rarely, or only under certain conditions. The general term for this spectrum of "little attraction" is grayromantic or graysexual, depending on whether you're talking about being on the aromantic spectrum or the asexual spectrum.

On a related note, the term "aspec" refers to the entirety of both the aromantic and asexual spectrums, which can be referred to by their shorter names, the arospec and the acespec. Those on either spectrum are aspecs, those on the aromantic spectrum are arospecs, and those on the asexual spectrum are acespecs. These words function both as nouns and adjectives.

There are many different words for different places on the aspec, so take your time in learning them and don't expect to understand everything all at once! If you want somewhere to start, try learning more about gray- (graysexual/grayromantic) and demi- (demisexual/demiromantic) orientations.

2. Amatonormativity and allonormativity are often matters of discussion.

Amatonormativity is the social expectation that everyone wants a monogamous, romantic relationship, often coupled with the expectation of sex being a large part of said relationship. You can see amatonormativity in how people expect little kids to have crushes, marriage to be an important part of everyone's life, and more. Aro communities typically talk about amatonormativity more, but it also affects aces and honestly, most everyone else, too.

Allonormativity is related to amatonormativity, and refers to the expectation that everyone is alloromantic and allosexual (that everyone feels romantic attraction and sexual attraction). Sometimes it's also used to refer to the social expectation that people want sexual relationships, as a counterpart to amatonormativity focusing on romance.

3. The Split Attraction Model (SAM) is what we use to describe having different romantic and sexual orientations.

Most people have the same sexual and romantic orientation, which means they're both bisexual and biromantic, heterosexual and heteromantic, etcetera. People who are like this often just use the word for the sexual attraction part of their orientation, i.e. bisexual or heterosexual.

People who aren't like this often use something called the Split Attraction Model (aka the SAM). This model separates sexual and romantic attraction/orientation into two different categories, allowing people to identify the differences in their sexualities. You may be asexual and aromantic, or asexual and biromantic, or bisexual and aromantic, just as a couple examples.

If you use the SAM, you may also consider yourself varioriented, which just means your sexual and romantic attraction don't match up. An aromantic pansexual may consider themselves varioriented, and so too might a panromantic heterosexual be varioriented. However, a pansexual panromantic is not varioriented, even if they use the SAM to describe their sexuality.

There are a couple shorthand terms we use to describe aspecs who use the SAM. Someone who is both aromantic and asexual is aroace, someone who is aromantic and allosexual* is aroallo, and someone who is asexual and alloromantic* is alloace.

*I mentioned earlier in the post what these words mean, but just to make it clear, an allosexual person is someone who is not acespec and experiences full sexual attraction, and an alloromantic person is someone who is not arospec and experiences full romantic attraction.

4. There are many words to describe aspecs' relationships with love, romance, sex, attraction, and relationships.

This section will be more of a speedrun of explaining vocabulary than a talk about the words listed hereafter. All of the words listed here can be used by those who aren't aspec, but are primarily used by those in the aspec community.

Ready? Let's go!

Attraction and relationships:

Queerplatonic: a type of relationship or attraction that doesn't fit perfectly into romantic or platonic boxes (think of it like the nonbinary of attraction/relationships). Usually seen as a platonic partnership that "queers the platonic" by including actions not normally taken in platonic relationships. Queerplatonic attraction can be shortened as QPA, and a queerplatonic relationship can be shortened as QPR. Those who are in a QPR may be called zucchinis or mallowfriends.

Alterous attraction: a form of attraction that describes wanting to be close to someone in a way that is in-between romantic and platonic. May be used as a synonym for QPA, but not always.

Platonic attraction: wanting to be close to someone in a platonic way, such as close friends.

Sensual attraction: wanting to be sensual with someone in ways such as cuddling, hand-holding, or hugging.

Aesthetic attraction: finding someone aesthetically pleasing or attractive, but not necessarily being attracted to them. Used to describe situations where someone likes how another person looks but may or may not feel any other form of attraction towards them.

Aplatonic: experiencing little to no platonic attraction; in rare cases used to describe someone who may not want a QPR. Aplatonic people may not necessarily be friendless or lonely, they just do not feel a strong desire to become friends with others. May be shortened to "apl."

Aplatonic spectrum: the spectrum of experiencing little to no platonic attraction. May be shortened to "aplspec," and is sometimes included under the aspec umbrella.

Romoship: a shortening of "romantic relationship".

Platoship: a shortening of "platonic relationship."

Famiship: a shortening of "familial relationship."

Sex and romance:

Sex favorable/romance favorable: liking sex or romance on a personal level and wanting to partake in it.

Sex averse/romance averse: disliking sex or romance on a personal level and not wanting to partake in it.

Sex indifferent/romance indifferent: not having any strong feelings on sex or romance on a personal level.

Sex repulsed/romance repulsed: being repulsed by sex or romance, often to the point where you may feel ill when the topic is discussed, especially if it's about your personal feelings.

Sex ambivalent/romance ambivalent: to have mixed [personal] feelings on sex or romance, or to not fit into any of the other categories on how you feel about it.

Sex positivity: a philosophical view that views sex as natural and healthy, promoting safe sex and individual choice relating to sex.

Sex neutrality: a philosophical view on sex that is neutral or in-between positivity and negativity. "Sex neutral" is also occasionally used as another term for sex indifference.

Sex negativity: a philosophical view that views sex as dirty and deviant, promoting abstinence and sex only under restrictive conditions.

Love:

Loveless: an identity where you distance yourself from love in some way, or you reject it as not applying to you. Some reasons people have given for identifying as loveless include standing against amatonormativity, reclaiming what was once an insult, or not understanding love.

Lovequeer: an identity where you reject love as it applies to romance and redefine the concept of love around types of non-romantic love.

Lovepunk: a form of punk focused on opposing structural norms related to love.

~

And there you have it! There's my 101 on aspec basics, for all those who are just discovering themselves. I hope this introduction has helped you understand at least some of the posts made in the aspec community.

Other aspecs, feel free to add on about anything else you'd like new aspecs to know! I can't cover everything alone and would love to hear others' opinions on what new aspecs should know.

[bloomshroomz]

When people say that "only a-spec people can use the split attraction model," it makes me think that they don't see a-spec identities as orientations in their own right. They see it as a lack of orientation.

If you can be (for example) asexual/biromantic or aromantic/bisexual (which, you can), then that inherently means that you can have a sexual orientation separate from your romantic orientation. Asexual and biromantic are two separate orientations. Aromantic and bisexual are two separate orientations. Asexual and aromantic are orientations in their own right.

If you think that this split in orientation is a-spec exclusive, your conclusion only makes sense if you don't consider ace and aro to be orientations in their own right. Otherwise, what exactly makes ace and aro different than other orientations? Why would an a-spec person be capable of experiencing split attraction, but not an exclusively allo person?

If your answer is something along the lines of, "well, ace and aro means no attraction, so it's okay, because it doesn't cause any conflict with the other orientation" ... You have proven my point. You're conflating "no attraction" with "no orientation," whether you're doing so consciously or not. Asexual and aromantic are not an emptiness or a blank slate. Supporting a-spec people necessitates supporting the split attraction model, whether it's used in an a-spec context or not.

One of the things I've seen people say is, "Allo* people who use the split attraction model are just experiencing comphet/internalized homophobia/internalized biphobia. They're just in denial."

*Allo as in "both allosexual and alloromantic."

And you know what? That can be true. It was true for me. When I was younger, I identified as bisexual heteroromantic (WLM). My understanding of attraction was "sexual orientation = your real attraction, romantic orientation = who you choose to date."

I knew that I was definitely attracted to girls, but I would only date guys, and I figured that dating guys must mean that I was attracted to them as well. I'm a lesbian. Or, I'm a polysexual person who is attracted to many genders, but not binary men, if we want to be more precise. Point is, I was experiencing compcishet* back then.

*I'm using the term "compcishet" instead of "comphet" because I am nonbinary/pangender, and my comphet was based on a cis lens. I was still presenting as a cis girl at the time. I felt obligated to conform to being cishet, not just het. So, it's compcishet, not comphet. Attraction to men wouldn't be fully "het" with my actual gender in mind; any attraction I experience is gonna be a bit gay.

It's also interesting to look back on how I thought romantic orientation was "just a choice people made," because... Now I know I'm just aromantic. Of course romantic crushes weren't a "real thing" to me... I didn't experience it. I didn't think anyone actually did.

So, my use of the split attraction model back then as an "allo" person was absolutely caused by compcishet, as well as a severe misunderstanding of how attraction works. You know what else was caused by those things?

Me identifying as bisexual. Me identifying as heteroromantic. But bisexual people exist, as do heteroromantic people. Yeah, those things were wrong for me. Those things were a result of compcishet for me. But that is just my story, and it does not dictate anyone else's. And, just as a person can be bisexual or heteroromantic, a person can also be both.

Is it good to introspect on why you identify that way? I believe so. Is it possible that you're using those labels as a way to avoid addressing your true feelings? Of course; I'm evidence of that possibility. But if you conclude that you are bisexual and heteroromantic, or some identity in a similar vein to that, that is completely valid, even if you end up changing your mind.

Anyway, this is not an invitation for discourse, I just wanted to rant.

How do you feel when people claim that only aspec people can use the split attraction model?

-it feels pathologizing

-I don’t think they understand it

-I disagree but don’t feel strongly

-I agree with them

-undecided

-see results