#so realistically i dont think any of them would actually think this stuff through except maybe jack max and flint

[max-nolastname]

types of story that different black sails characters think they're in:

jack: typical underdog overcoming unbeatable odds story; he is the main character and the show is 100% about him and his joseph campbell hero's journey. he is like achilles seeking eternal glory. he is also like gilgamesh, seeking immortality because he's afraid of death

flint: one of those fairytale retelling stories from the villain's pov; he is the fire-breathing dragon/big bad wolf/wicked witch that his village has ostracized, chased out of his home with pitchforks and torches because they feared him and what he is and what he stands for. he knows that in another show, a more popular show, the story would be told from the pov of the villagers about the dangers that lie beyond the village walls and into the forest...but this is HIS show and in HIS show HE is the one that survived the villagers not the other way around and HE is the one that has been wronged and he WILL see them pay for it

miranda: at first she thinks she is the witty and cunning heroine of a regency period romance novel. she is critical of high society and it's archaic and sexist traditions, turns her nose up at the institution of marriage and yet against all odds finds a true partner in thomas. she thinks herself happier and smarter than her peers, for finding a way to explore her sexuality freely and still keep her high status. she is caught in a whirlwind romance with a handsome naval officer and well....then her story turns into a tragedy and a decade caught in lifeless loveless joyless limbo where she is sidelined into the background of someone else's story

max: overly aware that she is in A Story and that she is Not The Main Character; the spotlight is never on her, she will never take centre stage. in fact, she is in the wings, or perhaps watching the show from the back of the theatre as the stage manager, setting the scene and directing others to pull ropes, shine lights, open and close the curtains so that other actors can strut and fret their way around the stage

billy: revenge quest story! thinks he is the good guy, there to protect his friends and get revenge on the tyrant who killed his father. gains some genre awareness and realizes that he is not, in fact, the main character, but rather a side character caught in a romance between his captain and quartermaster and if he really wants to survive he's really gotta break them up

madi: a story of hope told around a campfire, passed on from generation to generation so people don't forget about the time that an island of maroons stood up to a seemingly eternal and unbeatable empire. some days, it's a cautionary tale, on how volatile solidarity can be with divisions like class, race and gender .... or how revolution necessitates violence that people who are comfortable in their oppression rather not pay... but no empire lasts forever and nothing is inevitable. the story sticks in the hearts and minds of future revolutionaries and someday someone somewhere will pick up the torch and continue the fight

season 1 walrus crew: workplace comedy

silver: [redacted]

[nobody-lll]

Do you play games?

Hi!! Thx for asking!

Sorry that it took me a while to respond. For some reason, this went through 2 or 3 drafts, so it took a bit for me to finalize what exactly I wanted to say. Also, I apologize that it turned out as long as it did, especially when it really didn't need to be 😅. A good 3-4 sentences, or honestly, even just a simple yes or no, probably would have sufficed.

So, before I actually answer the question, I'm assuming that by "games," you mean specifically video games. I apologize if this is an entirely incorrect interpretation. You see, when it comes to stuff like this, I am actually really stupid.

Anyway, with all that out of the way, yes! I do indeed play video games. While I'm down to play just about anything, my absolute favorite games tend to have captivating art direction (Hollow Knight/Gris), engaging worldbuilding (Elden Ring/Bloodborne), engrossing vibes/atmosphere (Demon's Souls/Breath of the Wild), and/or a compelling cast of characters (Hades/Stardew Valley/Armored Core VI).

If I can get emotionally invested in at least one of these aspects, chances are that I'm gonna fall in love with that game, despite whatever faults it may have (Dark Souls II). Additionally, while not mandatory, a great soundtrack can go a long way too (Chrono Trigger/Mario Galaxy). Adding a song to my playlist definitely helps a game stick with me for a lot longer (Guilty Gear).

It doesn't so much matter to me if a game is "fun" either. While fun games (Smash Bros/Mario Kart/co-op games in general) are fun in their own right, it's not entirely necessary in order for me to love a game. I'd be remiss not to mention this, seeing as how it has clearly and undeniably shaped what games I gravitate towards, but I 've struggled with deppresion for over 5-ish years, so having fun can be a bit challenging at times, especially in the context of a single player video game, which is most of what I play. Heck, I would say, with the exception of Hollow Knight and Mario Oddyssey, that I kinda struggle to have a genuinely good time playing any of the games in my top 10 anymore. Dont get me wrong! They have there moments of course, but it's just not the main draw.

Also, not sure if you, or anyone else for that matter, are curious, but my top 7 video games, in no particular order, are Bloodborne, Gris, Dark Souls I, Dark Souls II, Hollow Knight, Elden Ring, Armored Core VI. These are the 7 games that are a straight 10/10 to me. They're all more or less tied for first. Not sure if I could realistically pick a favorite or least favorite out of them. As you can tell, I tend to like games that are kinda depressing.

And, I think that's about it. I could definitely keep going, but I think I'll end it here. I feel like I'd be disrespecting your time if I kept going.

Anyway, just wanna say thank you if you read this far.!! Hope this answered your question : )

[omegalomania]

Ok honestly fall out boy is so interesting to me bc they’re a very huge example of what would realistically happen if just some dudes who like music got sprung into fame randomly… like they’re one of the biggest modern bands but aside from their actual talent, there’s nothing really “glamorous” or “celebrity” about them, and i don’t mean that in like a “ooh i forget they’re celebs they’re soo different/quirky” kind of way but like in the way that it’s insane seeing the contrast of patrick mentioning in a recent interview that he isn’t on social media/the internet anymore bc he’s paranoid everyone hates him vs the fact that he was literally trending on twitter yesterday bc people love his performance in de:pp… like everyone jokes around about fobs obliviousness to their fame but like that kind of anxiety is realistically exactly what would happen to any normal nerdy shy dude that happened to get thrust into fame for fixating on music… SORRY this is so long winded but your posts got me thinking about this weird lil band again

i think absolutely one of the most endearing things about all of them is that literally none of them know how to be famous and it's still extremely funny to me. they are literally just some guys and they're like oh right We're A Big Famous Band and they always seem surprised to be recognized. like oh my god you guys have been chart-toppers for 20 years you are allowed to have a FRACTION of an ego about it but they literally just dont!

but i think they’re just extremely aware that they were exceptionally lucky, and while they’re certainly all extremely extremely talented dudes, the sad fact is that the industry is constructed in such a way that raw talent is never enough to get you where you need to go. they had grounding and stability that a lot of other up-and-coming artists sadly don’t get, and i think they understand that very well and it has a lot to do with their perpetual surprise that people still care about them.

this ask reminded me of something i saw posted forever and ever ago on the fall out boy subreddit (which is a godless joyless place and i do not recommend frequenting it, except that it does, on occasion, serve as a good source for news update and the like) and i had to dig through literal years’ worth of ancient plurks to find it again, but i DID because it still rings true to me today:

transcript of the image, with some emphasis by me:

“Yes, I’m late 30s and wasn’t particularly into FOB’s early work b/c I saw all 00s pop punk as an extension of the havoc GD/Blink’s popularity on 90s punk, but I was quite aware of Racetraitor, Arma, and Chicago’s cultral moment with the sound in general from 90s message baords. It was easily some of the best challenging-to-enjoy work of that time. I was busy buying jumble lots of obscure East Coast punk, tossing ones with swastikas (yay anti-racist skins, fuck anti-anti racist skins) and mining for gold like a proper grumpy punk teen, so I didn’t listen to them a lot.

But as a child of the early 80s, tenors & hits, I got into FOB years later when they were doing weird top-shelf pop rock. That helped me understand what younger people appreciated about their early stuff.

I rarely get to say this, but searching for a comparison in terms of bands reaching/sustaining their level of success with that kind of shitty basement political punk history... Bad Religion, maybe? BR was absolutely an oddball pop-inspired punk band & they were/are massive given what they discuss, and more so via their label creation. They never really grew much, though. Rancid are great & have a duo at the core. The Clash were exceptional and experimented a lot.

FOB’s presence over the past two decades is just not a thing that is supposed to happen anymore. Couldn’t be happier it worked out for punks managed by guys who are music stories of their own. Knew of jonathan Daniel from The Loveless thanks to a superfan debate coach in the 90s, was overjoyed to hear he was managing Butch Walker in the early 00s. I wasn’t aware of McLynn at the time, but I’ve heard his stuff since and what a house bassists built.”

legitimately i struggle to think of a band like fall out boy in the mainstream. a band with legitimate punk and hardcore roots, who built their way into practically universal recognition, and have remained culturally relevant for literal decades. that’s not a thing that happens a whole lot and it’s not a thing that is meant to happen anymore.

i think it’s one of the reasons it’s easy to look at them as the underdogs, even now. like by just about any metric, they’re not underdogs anymore, but they still manage to feel like kind of an island. there truly is no other band like them on the planet, and i don’t think that there ever will be.

[relaxxattack]

(i dont care to do c! tags bc theres. so many characters. if i dont say cc! then im talking abt the characters) normally i am not one to think much about the syndicate bc outside of ranboo being there to protect tubbo the syndicate Frustrates me a bit but. if phil starts to realize just how fucked over tubbo got by schlatt being erased from the narrative (and especially how shittily techno has treated tubbo) then i really hope they lean into like. the fact that the syndicate may soon turn into phil, niki, ranboo, and possibly the mystery member (im including mystery member mostly because i think tubbo is on good terms with almost everyone except like. dream, possibly wilbur but we'll see, and like the eggpire ppl but none of them are likely options but it is possible that the mystery member could just be neutral) all like. wanting tubbo to be safe and phil is *just* reasonable enough that i think he'd realize how unfair it is for tubbo to have been subjected to so much shit just for techno to introduce even more fear and the need to hide in his life

like phil already keeps the bee duo marriage and michael a secret, he lets tubbo come over and while of course its mostly from the semi lore vibes phil seems vaguely fond of tubbo already (i dont think phil and tubbo have father/son vibes tho, more just like. tubbo is just That Kid that adults cant help but adore even though the kid will rob them of house and home. slightly amused elder watching a tiny fucking gremlin make sex jokes and talk about soviet russia), niki from what i remember still cares about tubbo (probably because she cant redirect any anger towards him without realizing how unjustified it would be kcnsks she can come up with excuses for hating tommy but tubbo didnt do anything that niki has a problem with outside of her maybe having a bad view on butcher army if she knows about it?), ranboo is. ranboo. i dont need to clarify. and then like said theres a very low possibility of the fifth member *disliking* tubbo or being unable to sympathize with him.

people talk a lot about how techno needs to lose in a way that he cant easily come back from without introspection and i think while the rest of the syndicate standing up for tubbo would increase technos grudge against tubbo initially its also like. something that i think would maybe force techno to see tubbo as a person because now theres nothing techno can box (haha gettit. tubbox tubbo in a box tubbo getting boxed into certain roles by people who refuse to let him out techno esp doin this teehoo) tubbo into that wouldnt just. acknowledge that tubbo is a person. hes not apart of the government anymore, not planning any failed revolution, the most negative title to his name is being one of the nuke makers but even then thats out of fear and safety and techno knows that. otherwise tubbos current crimes are nothing thats special to tubbo (like. stealing and searching for evidence in ppls homes and stuff, the latter of which techno doesnr even know about). right now tubbos a husband, a father, a friend, a kid, *ex*-government, a person. and just.

i think that with how much foreshadowing about tubbos execution no longer being a secret amongst the witnesses and tubbo himself and soon being something that people close to techno like phil and ranboo know about as well (in that i want phil to learn that techno did it and for ranboo to learn about it in general bc hes just biased enough for tubbo and just smart enough that i think even if somehow he wasnt told who did it he could figure it out), and with the fact that tubbos lore has been confirmed to now be something thats actively going to be played into? i think (or at least hope) that it might spur phil and techno into finally seeing tubbos side of the story (and probably also get into the possibility of tubbo opening up to tommy and ranboo but i do think realistically either tubbo will try to play it off/not truly open up about how much its effected him or tubbo will at first shut down or go into complete repression mode, especially if phil and ranboo get the story from other people rather than tubbo himself [but god do i hope they confront tubbo himself]. either those two or tubbo talks about his emotions through fucking snapping at something/someone like he did at quackity when reminded of his execution, which as long as its Not tommy or ranboo ill absolutely be cheering on him for)

which is all a very convoluted way of saying uhh. *grabby paws at the ccs currently involved in the arc of clearing up personal misconceptions about l'manberg (and especially tubbos involvement and how easily those around him judged him based off of their versions of the story)* tubbo lore? tubbo healing tubbo talking about his problems? characters learning to see him as a person and recognizing how traumatized he is and that hes not uneffected but actively repressing any effects? please? (also ending note as the cherry on top of this essay that im sorry for dropping into your inbox: im kind of glad that tommys healing arc and tubbos possible healing arc are going to happen at similar times but are still separate. something something its nice to see acknowledgement that tommy and tubbo wont heal in the same way and arent going to know how to help each other but theyre still going through it together. their arcs are intertwining without removing their individuality and as someone w major co-dependency issues its kind of nice idk. you can be there for someone and still acknowledge that you have your own things to go through too and that while you wont be alone you shouldnt force those around you to support you. the bench trio are all helping each other out of free will and genuine love for each other while still realizing they have some problems they arent ready to talk about yet that arent forced to the open because theyre all doing their best to handle each other with care and i just. bench trio my beloveds. the kids are alright.) -🎭🎪 (also as the actual end note if theres ever a need to refer to me as something other than the emojis mask or eyez works fine but the idea of my name being the emojis is also Very Funny to me so do what you will)

im working on my aperture camera college assignment rn and my brain is sort of fried so i dont have an intelligent answer, but i got the happy chemical reading this.

yeah. i think we all know here that my favorite character is tubbo, and i REALLY hope we get him addressing anything that’s happened to him in canon. pretty much all of what you said sounds very good. *grabby hands* spare tubbo lore? please? spare tubbo lore?

perhaps during the three weeks wilburs off in the fucking woods (/lh) we could have a the-others-find-out-what-happened-to-tubbo-(and in DETAIL)-arc. pleaseeeeeeeee and ty

[whencallstheheart]

WCTH Season 8 Survey Results

Thank you so much for participating!  Here’s what you all had to say:

Responses to the short answer questions are under the cut!  It’s very, very long.

What do you see happening in the future with Lucas and Elizabeth?

Literally nothing except them talking about how cute they are and her stupid book

Lucas will lose everything that makes the character interesting in favor of conforming to whatever best suits Elizabeth.  They'll be so boring.

I have no interest in any story between them.

A lot of candles

Reply hazy, try again.

I can definitely see them having a lot of relationship drama and business drama, as well as Lucas learning how to be a good stepdad to Little Jack

They’ll break up when she realizes his criminal ways.

Don’t know, don’t care

Nothing good

Traveling. To see her family to get married

More depth to their relationship (I feel we were told more than shown)

LOL. They're going to be as boring and disgusting as a dead slug.

Hopefully a breakup.

Lucas is shown to be Abusive and Elizabeth will be hiding it.

He loses all his money, ruins friendships through business, constantly stalks Elizabeths every move listening to any conversation she has, having zero interest in Jack and Elizabeth reverts back to her big city attitude, but they stay in Hope Valley and annoy everyone. I’m not sure I see it lasting with the ratings are bad - I think the writers may be forced to make up their mind on Lucas for maybe even Nathan. I hope Jack rises from the dead (that would reek havoc and fun). Really I wish them all the WORST. OH and I think Lucas has deep secrets he wants to hid and I think the writers may even pull a repeat storyline (like with Nathan - even though they claim they don’t repeat storylines).... COUGH COUGH CHARLES MUCH?!? Oh and they’ll have his dad show up in town to cause drama. I almost hope Lee starts to clash with Lucas.

I want them to break up...

Lots of cringe worthy dates. Maybe some disagreements about their jobs or where they might live if they get married. Lucas spending some time with Jack

Elizabeth being out of character to fit with Lucas

the same for any new relationship - rocky roads with great romance

Problems, the two are sickening when they are together and their activities are only about them

Lucas needs to leave.  He is not a family man.  Elizabeth is a mother first, Nathan is a family man.

Lucas will learn to have a family.  Want him to loose the saloon and try to get it back. Problems with the pinkertowns

Hopefully nothing

Whatever the writers have in store. Since I'm choosing something else, I won't know and I won't care.

Well, she already has a great saloon dress, so I see her leaving teaching to work in the saloon while Robert raises Little Jack for her.😜

Boring boring boring storylines!

I do not care.

I don’t see a future as I will not be watching. Show is ruined.

Too many stupid over the top romantic dates

Marriage

Marriage

Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy

Not much.  What kind of story or life will they have?  Courting and dining and not much else.

Courtship and eventually marriage if the show lasts long enough. Lucas learning how to be a father. Maybe a trip or something after her book is published.

Get married and raise Jack together. Maybe have another kid.

More of the same. Just a physical relationship with some books and candles. Boring.

I don't know! That's my biggest problem. I can't see a future for them because I can't see them together, I always saw an end point. Where will they even live??

Marriage and a new baby girl

Not much

Trouble. Stress with things not working out as easily as they thought they would.

I honestly don’t know. I just feel like she looked so uncomfortable with him all season. Then all of a sudden she’s making out with him on a bridge?? She didn’t even want to hold his hand and when she did it was awkward.

Not interested at all.

Don't care.  Will only watch for other storylines.

Many dates, becoming a family with little jack , Lucas proposing   On  bridge in   The season 9 finale episode

Disappointment when she finds out he hired Christopher to spy. Lucas will have financial hardships and will spend time with Little jack. May partner with Nathan regarding land grab and the "bad guys".

Honestly no idea. I could see them not working out, but maybe that's wishful thinking right now while I'm still bitter.

I think Lucas will be supportive of her in her work and raising jack and there relationship will grow and they will be engaged sometime in season 9.

Dinners with champagne and too many candles. That's about it.

Chris McNally should leave the show

I'm honestly not sure. I think they have a lot of work to do before they even think about getting married because we haven't even seen a fleshed out relationship between them. I assume there will be some adjustments with how Lucas will fit into Jack's life too as he will be getting older since there has been zero interaction between them. I really have no idea but I also could not care less about either of them, so I'm hoping they won't monopolize the time in each episode. But I also think it would be hard for them to monopolize time because they don't even do anything lol, this is just a long winded way of saying I have no clue.

Getting to know each other better. Helping each other with changes with their jobs. Getting married.

I see them supporting each other through career struggles, Lucas trying to find his role with Little Jack, Elizabeth maybe feeling weird about Lucas’ money and trying to go full homesteader :)

Marriage, fights, baby Jack moments, etc.

Some boring shit...

Them having trust issues only because of how little we actually really know about Lucas and he has put himself in sketchy circumstances before. I honestly just don’t trust him, he’s been portrayed so perfect this season which isn’t realistic at all.

Relationship does not work

He will lose everything and she will see he was superficial

Probably a lot of fancy dates and romance

I don’t really know, not interested much in them.

Writers will have them marry, even though they have no chemistry whatsoever.

I guess something to do with Elizabeth's writing? I'm not sure, I feel like they had such little development together that it's the only thing they share.  

They should be working toward learning how to fully trust each other and communicate properly. Hopefully Lucas bonds a lot more with Jack. I have loved the little interactions between Lucas and Jack and there needs to be more if he is supposed to be Elizabeth's next husband.

Maybe a proposal by the end of next season. I'm really so neutral about the relationship that it doesn't matter to me. Maybe if we actually see some development I'll feel differently.

I really do not care enough to have any thoughts - I will be skipping what the show comes up with anyway.

They have a satisfying break-up lmao. That final scene was the most stilted and painful thing I've watched on the show in ages and that's saying alot.

He will break her heart

I'd hope they find they are just too different and break up. He's too smarmy for her.

A breakup

An engagement and Elizabeth pregnant with a baby girl

Moving back to Hamilton to live their champagne privileged life.  Hope Valley deserves the other characters to have their story told. Nobody wants to see a teacher and saloon owner being together.

Nothing. Completely have no interest in them. Wasted all season watching a so called love triangle.

More of the same.

Marriage

I never saw them as a couple- don’t think it’s a good match — they have not chemistry — hope they

break up — I just find his character as having no charisma - he’s too slick looking.  He was never into Baby Jack.... unlike NAthan

I hope they move away.

I hope they do not marry

I am not sure. Lucus is into the business of making money. That is what drives him. I don’t see him as a family man at all. Truthfully I will be disappointed to see Elizabeth go back to her privileged ways because of Lucus. I think she grew independent of her upbringing and to set her right back into the lifestyle she was born into totally undermines the strength and courage we watched her character blossom into and fell in love with.

Lucas will die.

Moooreee loooveee

Lucas’ relationship with Little Jack as a first time father and how it affects his relationship with Elizabeth

Who cares LOL i do not watch for Elizabeth

Getting maried

Ugh! Don't care.

More courting, scenes with baby Jack, probably some tension

Lucas is a duplicitous, dishonest person. Elizabeth will regret her choice and go back to Nathan.

Business problems, secrets galore, probably a super over the top wedding

More dinner dates?

I see Lucas and Elizabeth still in a relationship, but having some problems. Lucas's trust issues and bad communication vices needs to end!

Honestly, I have no idea.  Whilst I do love the actors and watch them separately,  I find it very difficult to watch their relationship on screen together.  For some reason it sets off a deep seated anxiety in me,  so I tend not to watch them where I can help it.  If I do watch in season 9, it will be for the supporting cast stories, and I will avoid their relationship storyline altogether.

Really don't care as that pairing makes no sense to me

full courtship

Don’t really care.

courtship, some struggles,  and then marriage - hopefully

No idea … don’t care about them

Candles.  Lots and lots of candles.

Don't know

I don't know and I'm not interested

Blah....

Spending time together, double dates with Lee and Rosemary, and dealing with any problems Elizabeth has with the edcuation guy from the county.

I really don't care, sorry.

A nice long courtship

I think Lucas will  encourage Elizabeth when her book is released they will continue to fall more and love and Lucas will propose in the finale of season 9

I have no idea. Their storyline was already so bland and boring. I guess they'll try to write stuff about E's book and then ppl trying cause trouble for the saloon. I dont really care what they do.  That relationship and storyline is dry as toast

Don't really have an opinion

Elizabeth stops teaching to write full time. They marry and move into swankier diggs on the edge of town. Little Jack spends his days at  Rosemary and Lee's house to get away from the constant champagne swigging and insufferably bad French.

Don’t care

I will not this show any longer. Season 8 did it for me.

a lot of kissing

Hopefully small, simple storylines that build up to an actual relationship that isn't just tonsil-sucking smooching. I think we deserve the attempt at seeing a relationship build after all this nonsensical drama.

That she finds out he isn’t who she thought he was and she made a big mistake. By then Nathan will be happy and fulfilled with someone new

More chemistry-free scenes

She leaves him for Nathan

Mismatched couple.  Very materialistic.  Maybe leave the show!

Move out of hope valley

They will make out all the time.

God I don't even know. I'm not remotely invested in their relationship so I don't really care honestly.

Far fetched - I hoping the past catches up and problems arise

Hopefully moving away so we dont have to watch them anymore

Nothing exciting

Boring storyline

I wish a break up

Don't care

L losing his money and figuring out how to be a real person with hardship. E struggling with the school but not actually doing anything kinda like the finale. I want them both to stay away from Nathan and not force a friendship.

Don't care

They will get married and have children

Lucas sells saloon and starts new, family friendly business.  He and Elizabeth court and become more serious

Dating, getting to know each other better, marriage

His shady ways will nip him in the butt and Elizabeth will open her eyes and realize how he's caused her to change into the "Hamilton" woman she didn't want to become.

Continuing courtship, then Lucas does a shady deal and leaves town

breakup

Blech- If those last scenes are any indication

Borrowing inappropriate life

I do not give a damn

I think and truly hope Lucas will show a side of him she doesn't like and she will get with Nathan. Probably won't happen but I think Lucas is just too slick and a little shady.

Think she will discover he has some things she doesn't like or agree with and will fall out of love with him

It will be a love forever!

I honestly think nothing will happen, they'll have another rather long (one season or two) relationship, then they'll get engaged, marry again, have babies... unless they decide to bring in random troubles, but honestly nothing much

Don’t care.  

I'm not really interested in these characters anymore

That they don’t get married and the storyline goes back to the original premise of the teacher and the Mountie.

I don’t care.

I don’t care.

They split up

they will settle into a comfortable relationship and then there won't be that much oppertunity for grown

They're a terrible couple and I don't really care what the writer's do with them.

Not interested in their future

A wedding.  They have unfortunately taken it this far, they have to finish it.  Anything else would make John Tinker's decision even more ridicuous.

I hope she realises she made a mistake thirty seconds into S9 and runs back to Nathan.

Don't Care, will not be watching.

I hope their relationship grows until ultimately they get married and have a family

They will get married and hav a baby girl.

Boring story line of privileged life and focus on book publishing and tour.  No chemistry "romance".Should marry right away as there scenes are so sexualized, which would be scandalous for that time.

fun romance, hopefully more with Jcak

No idea.  I can't picture Lucas involved in the school or any other part of Elizabeth's Hope Valley circle, so I imagine the storyline will give them a new focus.

Elizabeth will realize she made a mistake and leave Lucas!!! Only to find it's too LATE!

L& E have NO CHEMISTRY  

Don’t know, but I’m excited to see them as a couple! Just them getting to know each other even better and becoming more a part of each other’s lives (this includes spending time with Little Jack) as they move toward their future together. :)

They will probably get married.

Whatever serves Elizabeth’s plot line

What do you think they have planned for Nathan?

Who knows but I have no faith in the writers so they’ll probably fuck it up

Maybe he tends to a woman in need?

I would love for him to interact with more people in the town. Definitely more day to day scenes with Allie. I’d love to hear her refer to him as Dad. I hope someone new will come into town who will be perfect for Nathan and he will sweep her off her feet

Something great I hope

New romance. Maybe a tussle with the Pinkertons.

Hopefully a lot of interesting things! I'm hoping for a romance with Faith, I think they could be pretty great

Nothing. If they didn’t decide who elizabeth picked till last minute, no way they have anything planned for Nathan this far out. BB and Tinker are all talk.

Hopefully better treatment but I won’t know because I will not watch anyway

I hope someone amazing

A new love interest

More “Girl Dad” Nathan, potential relationship with Faith of a new character, a platonic acquaintance ship with Elizabeth & Lucas despite everything

Nothing that will do him justice.

No fracken clue. Maybe he’ll focus only on Allie from now on.

Nathan finds out that Lucas is abusive toward Elizabeth and ready to thrown Lucas in Jail where he belongs.

Some bullshit like always. I don’t even care to predict much. They have so much contempt for him it’s insanely uncalled for. They think he’s boring, they think he’s a Jack 2.0 (Brian Bird even said this on Twitter). They undermine his duty, frame him as if he is some like creep who followed Elizabeth to town, when in reality he was doing it out of respect, duty and honor. They are so needlessly disrespectful to him (Kevin knows this), especially bc they framed it as if Nathan never gave E space and time, which we know is BS. He is a real man and does what real men would and we know WCTH is scared of a real man. They’ll try to put him with Faith (snooze), or hell maybe they have not renewed When Hope Calls and he will become a lead on that show (I’d welcome him back into Alfonso’s arms any day). Lord knows Alfonso can write and actually respected his character.

A new love interest. Maybe a career change so he can be there for Allie more.

At this point with how they handled him so far I'm not very hopeful

I truly think something more exciting than it would have been with Nathan and Elizabeth

Not sure, can we trust anything logical to happen, hopefully he can see it was good not to be chosen by Elizabeth

He should be with Elizabeth

Probably saving Elizabeth and Lucas from danger

Help Lucas with this Spurlock Guy.  Navigate with a teenager.

If the writers/producers are smart, they will get Lucas away from Elizabeth almost immediately and get her hooked up with Nathan.  This was a blow and so deceiving to the fans!  (I only answered “someone new” to the question above because Elizabeth was not an option).  

Unfortunately not anything I trust them to do a good job with.

I am worried they’re planning to stick him with Faith.  Ugh!  

BB doesn't care, it will be tacky and messy.

Probably kill him. They’ve done everything else terrible to him.

Sadly, probably a relationship with Faith. Never been a fan of her.

A new love interest

A new love interest

I hope a new love interest. Courtship, Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy.

A great love story with someone new to Town!!!

Plenty of Mountie storylines, fathering Allie through teenage years, finding love, learning how to be friends with E & L. Maybe a visit from his mom.

Hopefully an epic story of heroics and a forever love who is unwavering and true to him. He deserves nothing less.

Get shot. Lose a leg. Get a life-threatening infection. Fall in a lake. Get locked inside a burning building.

I think they're gonna try to pair him with Fiona

New mountie responsibility and new love interest

No idea

Leave the Mounties and start a horse ranch or be in charge of the livery. I like him as a Mountie though.

They had all these amazing story lines for him even though it was just one road block after another for him. I want to continue to see Nathan deal with Allie growing up and their relationship.

I feel so disappointed & sad for him.

A storyline that hopefully won't screw him over, with no Elizabeth  involved. She needs to stay out of his life decisions. Bring in a new character for his love interest. But, most of all give him and Allie the happiness they deserve.

Faith romance ,more challenging cases in his job and trouble with ally father

Allie’s Dad, promotion

Not enough! Will try to find him a love interest but will focus on his relationship with Allie and her father, who will come back to cause problems. Nathan will partner with Bill regarding mining disaster investigation and Pinkertons.They need to make him prominent next season for show to survive because Kevin McGarry is beloved by fans and the best actor on the show next to Martin. The Mountie character should be prominent. If they try to put him with Faith it will be like a Dr. Quinn-Sully type relationship, and I don't think it will work. I love Kevin opposite Jen Lilley.

They will probably shackle him with Faith and that will bore me.

Have no clue

Relationship drama, Mountie stuff, trouble with Allie. Pretty much the same as this season but hopefully there will be more of a focus on him instead of Elizabeth.

Love with Faith, UGH. And more incredible fathering with Allie <3 Elizabeth could have had her chance with that family but no, apparently she’s “not in love” with him and never was.

I'm hoping we get to see Nathan form more friendships with other HV residents and deepen his relationship with others. I assume the Pinkerton storyline (which I have no idea how that will play out) will bring him and Bill together professionally, so I would enjoy to see their friendship be fleshed out more. Hopefully more of him with Allie and facing her teenage years as her father will be fun to see. I hope they bring in a new love interest for him because I would really enjoy seeing him catch the eye of someone new and vice versa.

More adventures as a Mountie.

No idea - I think he should find another path though. I don’t think he likes being a Mountie.

Another suitor, work stuff, family stuff, scenes with Allie

I just hope it is not faith as his love interest

Hopefully more storylines about him and Allie! I love them and I just really hope they focus on him and his journey with Allie. I don’t want a romantic storyline for him bc that’s really soon and he was IN love with Elizabeth so it would be unrealistic for him to jump into another relationship like that. I do want him to get over Elizabeth though and see him recover and grow from that!

Elizabeth will come to her senses and ditch Lucas for Nathan

A new love. A spunky woman who goes after him.

No clue!

Probably a love story with Faith, but I don’t like that direction if they decide to go that way.

Not to be a leading man and take the focus off of Elizabeth.

Probably a new love interest. I didn't catch that he could potentially end up with Faith at first, but I'm down for it as long as they can make it work. They've both been left behind by the people they love, that would make for an interesting narrative at least.

They probably will pair him up with a female character, but I think he should stay single and continue to focus on raising Allie.

Hopefully they don't go the Faith route, but I have a feeling they might.

A good Mountie storyline with the Pinkertons etc. I'd like to see Allie's Dad again too.

Ehhh they'll probably put him with Faith which I'm not into at all.

A spin-off I hope

Not sure, I felt he belonged with Elizabeth all along.

Who knows. I don’t trust the show runners anymore.

Faith and challenges raising ally

Hopefully leave Hope Valley and leave that shit show. I’m not really buying the writers saying they have exciting things for him. They have mislead the viewers too long. It’s a ploy to keep the viewers watching the show. It’s all about covering their butt right now and try to keep the ratings.

I don’t know. I won’t be returning to watch

Grief.

Faith

I think Elizabeth has trouble w/Lucas and runs back to Nathan realizing that she made a mistake.  A blended family would have been a good storyline.

I don’t know, but it better be good!

Don’t know

I would hope that he would be allowed to at least go on an actual date with someone before he is over looked and not even given a chance at love. That the decision to whether he is able to love and be loved is not determined by the uniform he is wearing but rather by the quality of the man wearing the uniform.

🤔

Mourning the loss of Elizabeth and then finding a new love interest, hopefully successfully

Something amazing I hope but the writers are so terrible I do wonder if they can

good things

I hope love

No idea.

Exploring being a father to Allie, An ACTUAL love interest, probably more career - mountie vs “normal” life thinking

I hope that Elizabeth and Lucas break up when she realizes how bad he is. Nathan loves Elizabeth and was NEVER given the chance to even have one dinner date with her. Elizabeth needs to have an opportunity to see him now for the incredible man that he is.

New love interest, new job maybe?

Probably a romance for Allie he has to handle?

Probably to put him up with Faith...

I hope something fantastic after the shocking story-telling he has had to endure this season.  I love him and Allie, and him and Bill, and feel there is great potential there.

I hope something good for what he's endured

Action storylines

At this point have no idea.

hopefully something fun, Kevin is a funny guy and they should take advantage of that

Downplaying his role as a “police” figure

I think they will put him with Faith, but I hope not.

New love interest

I hope that he will have as important a role as before (like, for example, the one Abigail had before she left) and that he meets a new love interest.

Faith

Nathan needs some stories with humor and adventure but they will probably focus on his romance next.

Bigger mountie related stories, new love interest perhaps

Fiona, Fiona fiona

Dealing with losing Elizabeth him and faith will bond over heartache and eventually become a couple he will have some problems taking ally as she continues to get older maybe a new aspect of his job being a Mountie

Also dont care what they do because anything after this point will never make up for the way they screwed his character over.  They'll probably write him with Faith which we all know makes zero sense. I would hope someone new comes along for him to love him the way he deserves but I dont think that will happen.  He'll have problems with the Pinkertons probably.

I hope some happiness for a change

They have already telegraphed that Faith will latch on to him. Yuck, what a consolation prize.

nothing

Probably some action stuff.

He will emerge as the strong wonderful Person he is.  He will be involved with the Pinkertons storyline.  He will find a new love and be happy

Back stab his character again

Promotion and a new mom for Allie.

Death

I hope someone new comes in and adores him.

I'm sure they'll rush a love interest for him as a consolation prize while also still trying to shove Elizabeth into his life as a "friend".

Life with Allie

Don't know with these writers

New love interest

Not sure

To be with Elizabeth that's what i want to keep watching

Saving the town from the Pinkertons. Dealing with bill and the mine. Making new friends and being admired by everyone including l&e. More sweet lessons with Allie (helping her in math) and possibly the aftermath of Dillon coming out. That could be a good opportunity to have him lean on someone new. I’d like Allie to put E in her place when she oversteps her involvement in N&A life since we know she will. It’ll show A maturing as a 14-15 y/o and serve E a much needed amount of humble pie after the crap she pulled with them in S7&8. Please no rushed friendship with e or l like give the guy a season and also make them the uncomfortable ones. He deserves to hold his head high. I would love for him to tell E he’s more than his uniform and it’s unfortunate she never tried to see that.

Don't no

A new girlfriend

He finally loses the chip from his shoulder

Not sure yet, a town mystery maybe, time him to heal with what happened.

He will uncover Lucas' shady ways.

Wrangling with the Pinkertons

No idea

Probably nothing to good

I do not want to Know. Not interested in the show anymore

I have no idea. I really can't imagine him with anyone but Elizabeth

Don't know but they did him wrong with Elizabeth's decision. She left Hamilton because of the life-style Lucas has. JUST DOESN'T FIT!!!!!!

another love

Probably more Allie and Mounties related things, and hopefully a nice, good love interest. I am really hoping they'll keep Elisabeth away from him for at least one season. The last thing we all need is her being all up in his business again with Allie and goodness forbid his new love interest #LEAVENATHANALONE (sorry, couldn't help it)

Hopefully finding love and happiness with someone who makes Elizabeth feel she made a big mistake.

j'espère juste qu'ils ne minimisent pas le temps de presence à l'écran de son personnage, qu'ils arrêteront de mal le traiter pour rien et qu'il lui arrivera que de bonnes choses

I don’t care enough to speculate.

Something lame.

Something lame.

No idea. They've just wasted the family Allie, baby Jack, Elizabeth and him already were.

sideling mountie buisness

I hope he finds true love.

A new love, but I hope they don't pair him up with Faith. More mountie stuff.

New love.  His continuing story with Ally.  More examples of his nobility, if they are smart.

If I were Kevin I don't know if I'd want to stay.

Probably another beating.

I would love to see Nathan and Fiona get together as a couple I think they would be awesome together

Romance with faith problems with ally’s father struggling with ally growing up and maybe him getting hurt on a mission.

That Nathan's heart will heal and that he will fall in love with a new beautiful godly woman coming to Hope Valley (A new teacher that can teach special needs?)  Continue to build the strong relationship with Allie and be an excellent dad.

new love

They'd better have an EPIC love story for him!

He needs to find someone NEW so when Elizabeth comes back it's too LATE!!  Faith and Nathan NO WAY!! You can't just fall out of love with someone just like that.

Challenges  in him being a Mountie . I really hope that he has a good storyline and has some romance with faith and is happy in his life and not despressed with Lucas and Elizabeth being a couple.

For Nathan, we should see him slowly healing from his heartbreak, and fully finding his place in the community beyond Elizabeth. Definitely more of him and Allie as a family. I expect our Mountie will become involved with whatever is going on with the potential new factory and the Pinkertons hanging around. No guesses as to what he and John Tinker have in store exactly, but I hope it’s good! As this is a Hallmark show, they probably can’t bear to leave a main character single for too long, so they’ll probably start setting up a new love for him, but hopefully not too soon.

Continue to be a parent to Allie and have a new love interest.

Lessening of his prominence on the show

What did you love about this season?

Well, I liked Nathan’s parts

that they attempted to fill some of the holes in plots and that they gave everyone something meaningful to do.  Ned and Florence were great.  Loved meeting the Canfields.

I was happy with the season up until the finale. I loved the thought of Elizabeth and Nathan going through everything to make their relationship stronger. Now it seems pointless. They kept kicking Nathan while he was down and he never got a fair chance

Allie and nathan

References to Henrigail.

Seeing the town become more busy and lively I guess

That Nathan was going to end up with Elizabeth.

I also loved the Canfields and the bigger storylines for minor characters.

Nothing at this point, it’s all tainted by garbage finale

Too rushed and not written well

There were more stories with other people

The ensemble as a whole....

The Coulters, Henry and Christopher, the Canfields, Florence and Ned, and Hickam and Fiona.

The Nathan / Allie storyline.

Jack Jr, Elizabeth and Jack Sr Photo

Absolutely nothing. It was blasphemy. My favorite moment was Either the Fort Clay argument at Bills uniform event thing, or Allie sticking it to Mrs. Thornton by ripping up the dinner invitation in front of her face in the school house. I like any suffering Elizabeth went through and Lucas.

Some things that were left hanging from prior seasons were resolved. The Canfield family- it was nice to see faith-related things being more included in the show again like in earlier seasons. Florence and Ned were adorable. Mike and Fiona were pretty cute together too- love how they encourage each other to be their best!

Not much but Nathan as a character

The Canfields, Ned and Florence, Rosemary and the paper, and the ending of the triangle

Nathan's smile.

Nothing

Florence and Ned

The Canfields and  the bell even though Lee should have is back jam when he lifted the bell.

The Nathan/Elizabeth scenes

Allie's adoption. Joseph Canfield becoming the new minister.

Florence and Ned’s romance, Lee’s one liners, Molly’s pursuit of Bill, when Elizabeth thought she was holding Lucas’ hands but it was actually Nathan

I loved the Nathan/Elizabeth story of getting over fear and do what you are afraid to do theme, until it all went sideways in the last 20mins!!!!!

Fiona and Mike

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary and Lee

The end of the triangle

The Canfield's.They are a breath of fresh air. I love that they love God, their family, and others. Ned and Florence was a beautiful love story. Bill and Molly. Molly giving her dress to Florence, Fiona adventures, Nathan and Allie's stories, Rosemary and Lee, and every minute of every Canfield.

Relationships - Fiona and Hickam, Allie and Nathan, Henry and Christopher. Joseph becoming the pastor. Nathan’s character growth.

The Canfields, Nathan’s storyline( even though nothing went his way he was always noble and true), Rosemary and Lee as always

I liked Hickam getting more story. I liked Rosemary starting the paper. I liked Minnie working at the restaurant.

Elizabeth finding love with Lucas

Allie and Nathan. Getting to see some of the fun side of Nathan.

Nathan and Allie. I liked Elizabeth with them too until the ending.

Seeing Nathan and Allie. Canfields. Mike and Fiona. Ned and Florence. Bill and Molly. Lee and Rosemary. So I guess the point is the attention on the other characters and couples. I think I enjoy the new couples just because we finally got to know two more side characters each time.

Nathan & Allie.

Everything BUT the annoying love triangle!

All the Lucas and Elizabeth dates, almost kiss in the rain ,  and the finale was the best episode of the entire series, there kisses were enchanting

Nathan

Humor, Ned and Flo, finding out Nathan's involvement with Jack finally. I thought Kevin did a magnificent job  and I loved seeing Jaeda shine- she is so talented. I loved Henry and Christopher and the positive impact of Rachel. My personal quote favorite: "Go stuff your trout!"

Nathan's face. Rosemary and Lee, the Canfields, Ned and Florence's wedding.

The triangle  Rachel and chrispthoher ��can fields rosemarys paper

Anytime Henry referenced Abigail and telling stories about ALL the characters, not just Elizabeth. I like the whole ensemble cast feel. This season did keep me engaged, I always tuned in when it aired.

The Canfields arriving, Henry mentioning Abigail, and Nathan and Allie - because Kevin McGarry and Jaeda Lily Miller are incredible actors with fantastic chemistry.

I really loved seeing more storylines introduced with the other characters and then for the most part developing those storylines. I adore Ned & Florence, I thought their wedding episode was so sweet, and I think they will bring a dynamic as a couple that will be fun to watch. I like how they have such a rapport together and with the mercantile being the center of town, I'll enjoy seeing more of them next season. I loved the edition of the Canfield family, both Angela and Cooper are so sweet and are great additions as HV kids. And Minnie and Joseph quickly turned into some of my faves this season too! I love them as a couple and I love them building relationships with the others, the Lee & Joseph friendship was definitely one of my favorite things this season. And Minnie is such a soft-spoken badass, I would listen to her read an audiobook all day long haha. I enjoyed learning more about Henry with the addition of Christopher, I definitely liked the depth their scenes brought. Any time my faves Lee & Rosemary were in a scene together was a win for me. I liked the crush developing between Allie & Robert too, v cute. Overall, I really enjoyed the new relationships that were formed and the new additions that were brought in, I think it paved the way for a number of new stories that I will be excited to see play out.

Fiona and the Canfields were the best storylines this season.

Lucas and Elizabeth are finally together.

Lucas' character is a real gentleman.

Martin Cummins was phenomenal, and I loved the whole Christopher story, including him and Rachel, and Henry reflecting on Abigail and being there for Ned. Joseph and Lee’s friendship is great. Loved Rosemary finding a new career. And Robert!

I would’ve liked Clare and Jesse struggling if they handled it better. I liked the general structure they began of drawing out stories and slowly unpeeling their layers but they set up too many in every episode and didn’t follow through well. If they can tighten that structure, it would be great.

Angst, Henry, The wedding, etc. (triangle ending too)

Allie and Nathan's cute family, Fiona and her interactions with Mike, Rosemary and the newspaper thing, flirty Molly and Bill

The Canfield family! I adored them they are so sweet and I really hope we see more of them next season!

Nathan and Allie

Nathan and Allie's adoption also the Canfields

Joesphs family and the return of faith to Hope valley! I also loved Lee and Rosemary’s relationship.

Lee and Rosemary were my favorites. I basically watched this entire season for them and Nathan and Allie. Ned and Florence were fun to watch as well.

Ned and Florence and the Canfields

Carson and Faith's conflict was honestly really compelling to me, and I'm fine with Carson leaving as well. The theme of calling was also really good in my opinion. I also loved Rosemary in general. She's my favorite character and I love watching her grow throughout the whole show.

I was very happy to see more representation on screen. The Canfields brought representation for POC and people who are blind. I would like to see more diversity in the cast.

I really liked the Canfields. They brought a nice dynamic to the show. As always, Rosemary and Lee were my favorites. As far as I'm concerned, they're the heart and soul of the show. Ned and Florence's wedding was nice too.

The Canfields. Lee & Rosie and Rachel. Henry and his son. Bill & Molly. Ned & Florence. Mike & Fiona.

Everything except the love triangle! The love triangle was one of the worst things I've seen on television (even before the finale). Everything but the love triangle was better than anything we've gotten since season four. Christopher, Henry, and Rachel were my favorites of the season. Loved all the stuff surrounding those characters. Also Fiona and Mike are really becoming great!

Allie & Robert

Allie's adoption was finalized.

Mike and Fiona

Triangle Clara and Jesse faith becoming a doctor Nathan adopting ally Elizabeth’s book Lucas and Elizabeth  kiss

Nothing. It made me mad.

Nothing

Nathan and Allie, Henry and Christopher.

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary — and Lee.  But the season writing was not good - need more dramatic things happening like - in past seasons.  It was almost goofy dialogue- the Fiona barber shop thing was stupid too — boring!  What happened to the blacksmith that liked her????

Canfield’s, FloYo wedding

Allie and Nathan

I loved the fact that Rosemary was patient with Elizabeth even though she didn’t deserve to be treated like she was by her.

More episodes

Glad to see Elizabeth be happy, at least for now. Also they have a number of different story lines that they can play with and help some other characters share the limelight, like Lee and Rosemary

The Canfields

fiona

Nathan and Allie

Aside from the gutsy decision to go with the less outwardly popular pairing? (I applaud it) I loved the new characters (Canfields/Christopher not Rachel) and seeing more of Nathan and Lucas outside of the triangle

Seeing Nathan get set free from his guilt and finding his voice to declare his love to Elizabeth and watching Elizabeth always pursuing him. After loving Elizabeth so much, it is not right to try to set him up with someone else.

Learning more about Henry and watching Florence and Ned get married!!

Nathan Grant

The Canfields

Fiona is a fabulous character, I really enjoy the dynamic she has brought to the valley.   I have always loved Mike, so those two are always a joy.  Always love Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan and Allie.  Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned.  Robert.  

The multiple storyline being dived into more

Lucas

Not able to come up with a positive answer at this point.

The Canfields, the angst of the love triangle - it felt more realistic then this show has in the past, with people making mistakes and trying to find their way.  For anyone who has ever had strong feelings for two people at the same time, there was a realism in the way the writers handled it with the shifting feelings, the questions about what and who is right, the missteps and the emotional angst.  The last two scenes of the finale (writers, actors, setting, humor) were pure magic.   Oh yeah  - Ned and Florence!!

Watching anything with Nathan and Allie

The Canfields

Scenes between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan/Allie relationship and her adoption

Not much

Rosemary starting the newspaper!!!!

Ned and Florence, Allie and Nathan

Lucas

Lucas and Elizabeth

I loved everything having to do with Nathan and Allie.  I just wanted E and N together and to join their families into one. It would have been beautiful.

Seeing Nathan and Allie's relationship deepen

Not much, it was all over the place. I can't believe how much I've come to dislike the main character.

Not much. It has gone on a different path.

The Canfields

The Canfields were lovely, Bill was better-written, Henry had amazing scenes.

Nothing

Lee & Rosemary.  Looking over your lists of major/minor storylines, I realized I didn't really enjoy any of those storylines. But I always enjoy when Lee and Rosemary are on screen.

Allie and Nathan

Nothing, the finale ruined the whole season.

I loved the Canfields. Always love Rosie and Lee scenes. I am enjoying that the show is becoming more of an ensemble rather than focusing on just a few main characters.

I loved the addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie.

The Canfield and the new side they brought

Nathan and Allie. Canfields.

Nathan

Chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth

Nathan and Ally

Disappointed

Nathan and Allie, Bill being Bill, FloYo, Henry, The Canfields

Disappointed

Elizabeth choosing Lucas in the end.

Nathan with Allie

To me each character was given the chance to grow and was able to work on things in their life.  I enjoyed the new writing. It made the show better to me.

Bill and Molly. They were so cute. And new characters/family.

Rosemary’s journey to find a new hobby

Canfield family

Fiona, the Canfield, Nathan & Allie

Lee and rosemary and the Canfields

Nathan and Elizabeth chemistry

The Canfields, Fiona and Lee and  Rosemary

The Canfield's and Rosemary

End of season.

Honestly, Allie's scene at Nathan's inquiry was the best thing of the season. I loved all their story lines, I'm ready for a whole season about them.

Most of it except the last episode.

the characters of Nathan and Allie

Ned & Florence

Nothing

The build up to her choosing Nathan... oh wait.

Fiona I love, Lee and Rosemary I love always

the canfields and nathan and allie

Rosemary and Lee's story line.

Not much.

Nathan's nobility, Ally, Ned and Flo, and the Canfields, especially their faith aspect.

I still think the last scene of the second episode was the strongest scene this show has ever got.

The Grant Family.

I really loved the additional episodes and hope they approve at least the same number or more next season.

Lucas and Elizabeth dates Clara and Jessie’s struggles the barbershop opening and Lucas and Elizabeth kissing and her finally choosing him.

Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Nathan and Allie, the Canfields.

ned & Florence,  the end of the triangle, robert at the babysitter, Canfield life lessons

Nathan adopting Allie and everything about their relationship, hearing Henry talk about Abigail, seeing Ned & Florence come together, cute Robert becoming a part of "adult" Hope Valley, Lee & Rosemary doing absolutely anything.

Not Much Elizabeth is not a good character anymore.

Nathan and ally Ned and Florence Elizabeth and Lucas I’m glad the triangle is over and everyone can move forward with there lives

The Canfields! They were such a welcome addition. I also loved Florence, the Florence and Ned wedding, Elizabeth and Lucas as a couple. And this was a pretty good season for Henry! Happy to see Faith back too. I also appreciated that there were more storylines that lasted more than an episode or two and it felt like a coherent season. It wasn’t exactly fantastic, but I don’t expect that of When Calls the Heart and I quite liked the season overall.

The addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie

What did you miss this season?  What could there have been more of?

Common sense

Lee and Rosemary!  Not enough of them.

Dates with Nathan

Nice Elizabeth

Um...more Henrigail.

Emotion. I feel like other than the stuff with Nathan and Elizabeth there were no other instances of real raw emotion

A Kevin McGarry shirtless scene. Also I missed Bill. I felt like he had very little to do this year.

Elizabeth getting called on her shitty behavior

Deeper story lines

Lee and Rosemary

I did wish Allie had called Nathan dad at least once

That they dropped the ball on Rosie wanting a child

I think Lee and Rosemary could have gotten where they ended up in the season finale half way through the season. I think that would have been nice.

Nathan x Elizabeth. She didn’t even have a rain check dinner she promised him.

More of Jack Sr Mentions, but also Elizabeth not hiding what she is really feeling

Nathan and Elizabeth and their little family with Allie and Jack. I will never forgive the robbery of such happiness.

The kids in the schoolhouse.

Little Jack, more of the kids, school, L and R

more time spent on few stories - too much jumping around and not enough substance

more time with the individual characters, fewer chopped up plots

Elizbeth acting as a mother first.  She should be concerned who would be an outstanding father/role model for Jack.

A date between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Reality.

We needed more Lee and Rosemary, and I really missed the kids bc of Covid.

Some common sense maybe??? A good ending to the season maybe???

better writing and the Elizabeth that left everything she knew to make her way in a new place.

Heart warming wholesome moments. They were few and far between.

More school scenes

Interaction with little Ja  CB k

The kids. I missed Opal.

More schoolhouse scenes

More Bill, Rosemary, Lee, Molly, Henry

Substance.

I missed Lee & Rosemary! It felt like they barely got screen time. And then truly if Elizabeth & Lucas were going to end up together I would have liked to see their actual love story build, instead of her dating him while staring at Nathan the whole time, which is what we got.

More Rosemary and Lee; them adopting or having a baby

But lightheartedness. The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Truth I missed Elizabeth and Nathan flirting.

Opal!! I feel like we needed another girls sleepover night or camping trip. It feels like we barely saw the kids aside from Allie crushing on Robert. There were no festivals or fairs. It was a bland summer for the kids.

Nathan finding happiness with Elizabeth.

Nothing really

Rosemary having a baby, Henry with oil business, jack and Lucas scenes, faith working in the infirmary , Elizabeth’s book .

Nathan

They dropped Nathan's chances at being with Elizabeth after he cried out his love for her and we should have seen him get more of a chance. Really wanted to see Allie more and less of Elizabeth. Hoped to see more of Fiona, too as she is comical playing off Hickam. Show really veered off course-[ writers kind of dropped stuff in and out on a whim and I thought the show lacked connection between storys and characters over time. Lots of whiplash- Canfields just moved in to a cabin then almost immediately sold it. Rachel was dropped in then all of a sudden leaves to celebrate a birthday. All of a sudden newlywed Ned applies for a bandaid patent! What the hell???

Better writing.

I didn’t miss anything. More of the hope valley children

Some type of villain. There was no crisis, no major overarching storyline aside from the love triangle. It overtook the whole season. Thought I was watching The Bachelorette for a second.

The love triangle was set up to bring Elizabeth and Nathan together - and don’t tell me they weren’t in love, Brian Bird, you literally spend 3 seasons showing them getting closer, feeling physically affected by being around each other, protecting each other, and becoming more open and you literally had Elizabeth seek him out and draw him in over and over again, getting closer to Allie as a mother figure in the process. Don’t tell me that’s not what a woman in love does for someone she loves, both romantically and deeply. And no resolution for ALLIE: Elizabeth telling Nathan to pass a message to Allie in that rejection scene, not even seeking Allie out to apologize? Is that somehow supposed to make that little girl feel better?! Treating Allie, her beloved student, like some insignificant afterthought, after everything Allie’s been through, just because she realized she’s in love with Lucas? Unbelievable. So yeah, sorry not sorry but I’m sore and pissed off, I feel manipulated and I’m angry. I did not buy Elizabeth’s sudden desperation to find Lucas, I did not buy that kiss or that she would want to spend a lifetime with him. The storyline literally did not support this ending at all. Even if I did want Elizabeth with Lucas I would feel shafted because their interactions were so damn surface-level the entire season. Here’s a replica of Elizabeth and Lucas’s backyard date conversation:  Elizabeth: *wears a saloon-worthy, not flattering, potentially scandalous dress*  Lucas: Did I tell you how beautiful you look tonight?  Elizabeth: yeah you mentioned it a few times  Lucas: do you know how happy I am to be with you?  Elizabeth: yeah...you said. Me too I guess. Oh and by the way, sorry about baby Jack, sorry he exists, and that we had to have dinner in my backyard  Lucas: leave the dishes, I’ll have Gustave my slave come and collect them. Tonight should be about us  Elizabeth: ... *crickets* *light hand holding*

So for season 8? I wanted more of Nathan and Elizabeth getting together I guess.

Obviously I am bummed about the lack of a baby Coulter this season, but the interview with Kavan & Pascale has made me hopeful it will happen next season. Even with the lack of a baby for them, I was disappointed with the whole Rachel thing because they barely spent any time "parenting her". She spent more time with Christopher that we saw on screen than she did with either Lee or Rosemary, and every scene they were in together was pretty much spoiled in the trailer for that episode, so that was a let down for me. I would have liked to see them actually spend some time with her or watch them struggle with parenting her. I always want more of them in general too, but I do feel like they got pushed to the side this season to make room for the triangle and other stories to play out. I'm really hoping for more of them next season, especially as it seems as though their journey to parenthood is finally in the cards. I also would have liked to see more of the HV kids this season, I did enjoy most of the scenes with the kids.

Elizabeth and the school children.

Rosemary and Lee were tired and wasted for most of the season, needed more of their fun. School scenes - I wish they would’ve tried to do something outside. More stories that weren’t romance. (And you didn’t ask but I could use way less of Elizabeth dramatically stopping and gasping.)

Kid scenes. There could be more kid scenes and unlikely interactions among all the main cast.

Elizabeth at least giving a chance to Nathan

There could’ve been more good and consistent storytelling lmao

Little Jack

Drop the triangle mid way and let the focus go back to HV

More time for Elizabeth to grieve and process. Would have loved to see her more in her role as a mother.

More Nathan and Elizabeth. It felt like they never gave Nathan a chance.

Nathan and Elizabeth going to dinner and spending time together.

More development for Lucas would have been really nice. Not that he wasn't present enough, but I feel like he took a back seat for his character development, growth, insight, etc. Also, if they focused on him more, especially in relation to Elizabeth, her choice would've made more sense to me.

I missed a certain simplicity which was evident in other seasons. I often felt that there was too much going on and that weakened the storylines since there was only so much time for each one.

More focus on the other characters and less on the love triangle.

Gah, so much screentime was wasted on the love triangle. I miss the time we could have gotten exploring other stories.

Better story telling.  It was boring, frankly

Elizabeth interacting  a lot with Little Jack and falling in love with Nathan like it should have been.

Mike and Fiona. I hated that she was gone for so long.

The magic that we saw in the earlier seasons. It’s too far from the books. They should have just replaced Jacks character with another actor.

More in depth storylines

Better writing.

Continuity

Good story lines, more  serious stories - less fluff / silly stories, —-and Elizabeth - disappointed in her decision— and where the show is going with her character. Acting is just limited to not engaging with the characters ....dialogue not deep enough.

The kids and school scenes. Covid, I know, but I did miss them!

Not sure!!

Not much comes to mind

Meaningful stuff for the Coulters

Rosemary and Elizabeth

Missed the Teacher Elizabeth scenes

There could have been some more opportunities to see Nathan have a chance to pursue Elizabeth. There could have been more of Elizabeth taking her own advice to drop her fears (of marrying another mountie) in order to allow Nathan to shine for himself. They did have chemistry. I wish I would have seen LESS of Lucas trying to charm Elizabeth with extravagant gifts and the extremely unrealistic scenarios he created to win her heart (so many candles, so many lanterns in the sky, etc.)

More Lee/Rosemary family focus

Nathan actually having a chance to prove himself to Elizabeth

Oh, that is a hard one to answer right now, it might come off as bitter.  Actual consistency to ensure the past 3 years hasn't felt like it has been for nothing.  Clarity around some of the characters and their choices (and I am not just talking about the triangle), respect for the characters in the writing.  Need I go on.  

As cheesy as it is to say, more heartfelt moments. Because they did so much, felt as though I couldn't appreciate singular storyline as in depth as I normally do

Lee and Rosemary

No answer

a baby for the Coulters, missed the kids and little Jack but I get why

Rational writing

I miss the short story arcs where they focus on a few characters and tell a complete story in one or two episodes instead of having every character’s story stretch out for the whole season.

Depth of conversation

More Rosemary and Lee

Better writing

More school time with Elizabeth and.her students, but I understand the restrictions.

More harmony, there was so much conflict!

Josie Bassett as a love interest for Bill

I wish Rosemary would have found out she was pregnant Elizabeth would have made her choice when she and Lucas were in the rain and Jesse and Clara wouldn’t have had problems

Not enough screentime for our main character Elizabeth. Things havent been centered around her for a long time and I dont think that will ever change. More heart to heart conversations that are actually real and meaningful without being cringey and forced.  The show also never replaced the vacancy of Abigail's character. She was the glue that held the whole town together and offered sound advice. We dont have anyone like that anymore

I missed story lines with the school children.

gee, i dont know, ACTUAL PLOT?

Meaningful scenes for Jesse and Clara, Lee and Rosemary, and possibly Fiona.

The storylines were awful ad choppy.  

I missed the triangle that was supposed to play out.  Instead we got Elizabeth dating one man and choosing to be with that man in the finale.

Need a better writer

Intelligent dialogue with meaning and substance.  Written for an 5 yr. old.

Smart characters

More Rosie and Lee scenes

Always more Henry.

I would have liked to see someone care about Nathan. I wish he'd interacted with more people and not just in his role as mountie; same with Allie. I want to see her have more adult female support instead of just Elizabeth.

The school

Elizabeth and Nathan

Actual dates between Nathan and Elzaibeth

Kids

Elizabeth and Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary. There could have also been more completed storylines they honestly made so much cut short or unclear.

Elizabeth and nathan

it's all good.

Should have been more depth for Lucas with Elizabeth

More of actually giving Nathan a chance instead of constantly pushing him away. It wasn't really a love triangle.

Character development

better writing

I wish there was more Lee & Rosemary.

Heartwarming wholesome stories

Are you kidding?

More development of Nathan's character

Development of Nathan's character

Abigail

As I said earlier, I think they could have dug deeper into the adoption/ biological father of Allie, because it would have been a lot more interesting than some out of the blue story lines (Coff coff Jesse's and Clara's money coff coff)

Seeing Nathan and Elizabeth on a real date.  

a smoother transition to succeed in understanding the final choice of this false love triangle

Bill & Molly comical scenes

Anyone and everyone other than this triangle.

Broken storylines. What was the point of Allie’s dad? The Pinkertons? Wyman? Mentioning Abigail? Even Rachel and Christopher if they never return to HV? I get cliffhangers but they dropped stories or made storylines feel pointless.

the children

Interaction and actual dates with Nathan and Elizabeth where she got to know him so she didn't think of him as Jack 2.0.

A better sense of community.

Everything that Alfonso Moreno did: a clear, focused, measured, believable story arc.

Nathan and Elizabeth to be given a chance. More logic and less crazy, in what universe does the writing of the finale make ANY sense.

I missed seeing any thought process in the writing....To late for anything more.

I would love to see a little more action and adventure or maybe a mystery

Missed the well written story telling like Moreno's.Tinker and producer's lack of integrity to mislead and get fans fight against each other, instead of building a good story to justify why the choice was made at the end.

I missed Jesse & Clara being happy.  I always miss Abigail. I missed Faith & Carson in sync. i missed the romance I anticipated between Elizabeth & Nathan.

The essence of Hope Valley is gone. Less focus on the love triangle more about other characters, family community. Elizabeth is not NICE

Though they never tend to be my favourite storylines, I actually missed being in the classroom more.

Could have done with more Canfield family stuff.

I know she was there, but it didn’t feel like there was enough Rosemary (never is tbh).

I always want more of the Florence and Fiona friendship specifically, as well as all of the female friendships. There were some lovely moments this season, but I’d still like more.

I understand they rushed the resolution so they could save it for the finale, but I would have preferred way more of Elizabeth and Nathan each dealing with Jack’s death and more time spent on settling their feelings for each other.

I wanted more of Rosemary and Lee's story with infertility. I'm pretty neutral on this season.

Journaling

What do you hope to see in season 9?

🤷‍♀️

Maybe but only if they make Nathan a main character the same as Elizabeth

Kindness

Henrigail. I'm copying and pasting at this point.

More of the kids!!

Lee and Rosemary having a child! More Henry! And a Kevin McGarry shirtless scene, lol.

Absolutely nothing

Better story lines

More stories for all the cast

more stories that involved multiple characters (and characters that don’t interact as much to interact/form new and unique relationships)

I won't be watching Season 9.

An apology from TPTB.

Lucas true dark and evil side

Nothing. I’m not watching blasphemy.

Lee and Rosemary become parents. A fun new love interest for Nathan. Mike and Fiona dating.

For it not to happen. Take me back to season 7 ending

new love and adventures for Nathan, a baby for Lee and Rosemary, fun and challenging love for Elizabeth and Lucas

Honesty, no more bait and switch just for ratings

I won't watch it.  After 8 seasons it sickened me to see Lucas as the pick when he is not a father figure or role model.  So unlike a moral mother to not look at a person's interaction with your child first when choosing a partner.  

Less scenes between Elizabeth and Lucas since she found her love focus the season on Nathan finding his

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Nothing. I'm moving on to greener pastures.

I would like to see Rosemary and Lee finally have a baby or adopt, Elizabeth and Lucas break up or just leave town so I don’t have to watch them make out, Nathan find a better love, and Lee as mayor take on Wyman Walden and the Pinkertons.

Elizabeth realizing that she actually loves Nathan and Lee and rosemary surprise pregnancy or adoption.

I do not care what happens.  

Elizabeth/writers/ producers realizing they are incredibly stupid. Apologizing and Nathan NOT taking her back. She needs to be alone and probably miserable. I think that’s what the show and she deserves. They’ve ruined it. I’m gone.

Less soap opera

No more triangles

Nathan finds true love. Allie getting an amazing Mother. The Canfield's (every minute of every Canfield). Rosemary and Lee. Bill and Molly. Clara and Jesse maturing. Every minute of Nathan and Allie. The kids. Ned and Florence enjoying married life and seeing him strike it rich. Lee for Mayor. Henry coming back. Mike and Fiona. Faith being a Doctor.

Healing and happiness for Nathan after getting smacked around in Season 8

A baby for Rosemary and Lee, Henry and Abigail to return together, Carson to come back and propose to Faith because she obviously does love him and want him to stay, an amazing newcomer to fall head over heels for Nathan

A cohesive storyline!

Rosemary and Lee have a baby

The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Allie and Nathan prominence in the community and storylines. Lucas and Elizabeth to go on an extended international book tour.

Lee and Rosemary having kids finally!!!! Mayor election!

I won't be watching anymore.

A storyline that doesn't screw Nathan over.  Rosemary/Lee blessed with a family. Less Elizabeth/Lucas kissing scenes. More focus on other characters.

Rosemary pregnant,faith and Nathan getting closer, more of Nathan being a Mountie,jack and Lucas bonding, Lucas and Elizabeth dates and kissing , Lucas proposing .

Nathan

I already cancelled Hallmark first thing this morning. The writers and showrunners have no credibility for me any longer, and I did not make my decision based on the triangle alone.

More focus on characters not named Elizabeth.

Henry and Abigail  rosemarys paper lee for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas getting closer Nathan finding someone

I want Henry and Abigail to come back and see how that relationship plays out. I like the show but what got me excited was there relationship. Love enemies to lovers stories play out. I also hope they bring back Lori. Though she definitely does not need to be such a huge part of the show as she once was.  

NOT Faith with Nathan.

Minnie Canfield becoming more a part of the town community with her fabulous boldness and integrity. I really love her.

Allie and Nathan having some incredible adoptive father-daughter laughter and tears moments, like her teasing him, him teasing her, and them going on trips together, just ALL Nathan and Allie. They deserve a spin-off. They are a great father-daughter love story. Way better than the romantic one.

Elizabeth and Lucas go on a very long trip to Europe together and season 9 is all about Hope Valley without them.

Fiona doing everything she does with boldness and fun, cause she is fantastic. Fiona getting into some real schemes!

Henry brings Abigail back.

First and foremost a little Coulter. I'll be interested to see how Rosemary's paper and hopefully Mayor Lee are doing haha. Definitely more of the friendship b/w the women, I love Florence & Molly as well as Fiona & Clara & Faith. More Nathan & Allie, and hopefully Nathan enjoying himself and meeting someone new. More of the Canfields.

Better writing

Less stressful situations. Mr. Canfield becoming the town's preacher. So happy that Hope Valley will have a preacher. Someone the town people can go to with their problems. Only good can come from putting faith back into the show. Thank you.

Henry and Abigail in some form; Rosemary being a tenacious journalist; real relationship  work and personalities for Jesse and Clara; a fun mayoral race; the town coming together again for important things unlike the complete lack of momentum this season from Jesse being lost or the rig exploding; and just get rid of Faith. Bring back Dottie or something.

Nathan and Allie, Nathan Nathan and Elizabeth’s friendship, Nathan and Lucas getting along, Nathan moving on from Elizabeth, Lee and Rosemary talk about kids, and more Canfields.

A well-written storyline for Nathan, not him just as a background town mountie popping if needed sometimes

more happiness!!! Obv I still want drama but also it’s my comfort show so I just want to watch it and not be yelling at Elizabeth and other characters the whole time lol.

Elizabeth and Nathan - together!

Less commercials

Won’t be watching, but best wishes to the show!

I would like to see Abigail return, and have Lee and  Rosemary somehow have a kid, though I’m not confident that either of those things will happen. I’m not sure if I’ll tune into season 9, we’ll see.

Rosemary and Lee finally starting a family, and for anything good to happen to Nathan whether it's above interest or something else. He suffered this season, he deserves good things to come his way.

I hope to see more character development. I would especially like to learn more about Nathan and Lucas now that the decision is made. I want them to be more than suitors for Elizabeth. I would also like to see them become friends. If Nathan must have a love interest, I would be interested in a woman of color being casted for the role. Also, even though it would be nice to see Rosemary and Lee have a baby, I think it would be really interesting to have them adopt a child or two (siblings).

Up until a little while ago, I was very opposed to the thought of Abigail returning. I wouldn't put it past them, and if Gowan isn't gone forever, it could be an interesting plot. (She would need to take on a less involved role, and not sure Loughlin would agree with that)

I want Henry back (don't care if it's with or without Abigail). Lee & Rosie to have a baby (don't care how). Nathan (& Allie) to have a good storyline and to be happy.

I just want to see Lucas and Elizabeth break up. I cannot hammer home enough how painful that final scene was. If this is how their relationship is going to be, I'm barely going to survive.

Abigail

Elizabeth comes to realize she is indeed in love with Nathan when she sees how taken Little Jack is with him.  Little Jack never warms up to Lucas...ever.

I’m not watching, so I don’t care.

Henry’s happiness ally and Nathan scenes more Elizabeth and Lucas dating and an  engagement   and nick ham oil buisness

It should be the last season. The writers deserve to be unemployed for taking the series to this point.

Not watching season 9

Don’t care.

Nothing

Elizabeth - goes to Nathan — bring up happy with Lucas —- so they can be together (hey, they guy had more emotion than Lucas !!

I’ll wait to watch. Follow along on social media to make sure they don’t massacre any other storylines first.

Elizabeth and Lucas break up

Nathan to find his true love and Rosemary and Lee to start a family.

Elizabeth and Lucas to be married, Rosemary and Lee addressing the baby question and what happens with Henry trying to start with a clean slate

Better plotlines for the Coulters and the return of Henry

Henry and Abigail

A continuation of the stories already set up.

The survey did not give me an opportunity to say that Nathan needs to STILL get together with Elizabeth, so I had to pick someone else. The survey should be designed so that I do NOT have to pick an answer that I do NOT believe in. I hope that the writers will realize that they set up a story, especially at the end of season 7 and in 8 where it looked liked they were setting up Nathan as Elizabeth’s choice. Her choice of Lucas makes me wonder if she is only responding to the “temptation” she feels around Lucas. (He tells her,  It is not a date, but if it were a date and he lightly touches her hand...This is duplicitous behavior!) Elizabeth and Nathan have tough conversations about real life and they have the kind of relationship that is very healthy for a long term marriage. ...Frankly, I CANNOT watch a “romance” develop between Lucas and Elizabeth. They might have a similar interest in literature, but the inside character and values of each of them are very different. Elizabeth only needed a little opportunity once Nathan was free of guilt to give him a chance to win over the “romantic” side of her heart.

Lee and Rosemary adopting a child!

For Elizabeth to dump Lucas or for Nathan to meet someone new who will really value him and let him in

I am not sure if I will be watching season 9 as yet.  I need to figure out if I can get past the finale first...  It took me over a year to come back after Jack's death and with the way the finale has disrespected the past 3 seasons, I don't know if I have it in me.  I want to, I just don't know if I can.

Still on fence about watching it

Wholesome cast

Do not really care.

a baby for the Coulters, the development of the relationship between Elizabeth, little Jack and Lucas, the story of Nathan's journey to love,  a challenge the community has to face together,  a love interest for Fiona, the development of the Canfields.  No more Bill and Molly.  I love Bill's character - especially the role he has in Elizabeth and little Jack's life - and Molly is fine too, but I don't see any chemistry there.

Nathan becoming more popular than Elizabeth

I want a happy ending for Nathan and Allie.

N/a

Only the new adventures of Nathan, Allie, Rosemary, Lee, the Canfields, Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned and the return of Henry.

No interest in watching 9

I hope the mayoral race is fill of humor and not contention.

Whatever they write

Mike and fionas business Rosemary pregnant Nathan and Lucas are friends Elizabeth’s book is released maybe a baby for Clara Nathan and faith together ally and Robert together  Henry returns Lucas and jack bonding Elizabeth continue to teach and Lucas proposing

I wont be watching to find out, but some respect for Nathan and Allie, and Rosemary and Lee.  I have an inkling that Rose and Lee are going to be screwed over next.  Hopefully E and L just break up randomly bc idk how anyone could sit through the show and watch them together. It's disturbing

I'm not sure of the year anymore, but the Spanish Flu should be showing up any day. I have a list of characters that could fall victim.... let's start with Elizabeth.

less kissing

Better writing, less pair-the-spares, more focus on relationships and less on interpersonal drama.

More Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan getting a storyline instead of being a punching bag.

No

Not going to watch it.

Not watching

Rosie and Lee having a family of their own either by adoption or pregnancy.

Increased focus on entire ensemble.

I won't watch season 9, but I hope that they finally give Nathan and Allie happiness. I hope Allie calls him dad, and that she gets her own horse, and I wish that Elizabeth would just leave them both alone now. I hope that whoever they do pair Nathan with loves and appreciates him for who he is, and loves Allie, and puts them above everyone else. Bonus points if whoever she is tells Elizabeth to back the hell off at some point!

More of Nathan

Nothing

Not watching

Break up of Elizabeth and Lucas

Don't care not watching anymore

More action and real suspense.

Don't care not watching anymore

Lucas and Elizabeth getting married.

Meaningful conversations between E & L; Nathan being Allie's dad/Allie supporting him through his loss of Elizabeth; Hopefully Elizabeth, Lucas, and Nathan can still be friends.

Continued better writing and character growth.

More of Nathan. I really like his character. I want more of his past and what has shaped him. I want to see his honest and noble character.

More challenging life experiences; give Fiona more prominence ... perhaps as a stringer for Rosemary’s paper; Jesse develop some character.

better more coherent writing

Henry back

I don’t care. I’m no longer a viewer after this season.

Elizabeth realizing Nathan is the one and Nathan rejecting her the whole season, having another serious love interest but forgiving her for her bad choice at the end

More emotion from Nathan . A chance in Elizabeth

Elizabeth realizing she made a mistake

Many interesting stories

Lee and Rosemary getting back on their "parenting issues" the whole Rachel thing was put in and taken away way too soon? There were a lot of things thrown in this season just for something to do, and at this point, since Nathan is still the mountie...more proper mounties storylines, like the investigation on the tampered oil, that was cool (maybe I should just switch to Murdoch's Mysteries XD)

Very little of Elizabeth and Lucas

Improved writing by then staff

see less of E and L and see more of the other characters , Nathan and Faith just become friends who console each other for their heartaches not a couple

Bill & Molly

I have no hope for season nine

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

less drama

Lee and Rosemary have a child.

I'm not very hopful.

Nathan and Ally moving on and eventually finding a family with a woman as selfless and noble as Nathan.

I don't even know, I'm just so angry and sad.

Don't Care , will not be watching..  I am finished with the Hallmark Channel  and anything Hallmark.

Just a continuation of the hopeful storylines and of course the romance

Faith being more in charge Ned and Florence being married lee running for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas engament jack growing ally and Robert and a baby for Clara

Focus on building a compelling beautiful story for Nathan; that his heart will heal. That he will fall in love with a new beautiful lady coming to town, which will be a deeper and more epic love that would have been with Elizabeth.  More storylines with Nathan and Allie; Rosemary and Lee to be parents.  Hope that writers and producers will not ruin Nathan's character and storyline. And do not pair Nathan with Faith nor Fiona.  Hope there will be less of Elizabeth and Lucas and focus on other characters.

more time spent on the storylines - not so many brief scenes

Nathan gets a love story as glorious as Elizabeth & Jack.

Will not be watching. This heartie is broken and lost hope.

Elizabeth engaged

Elizabeth and Lucas happy and in love. I hope we get plenty of Florence and she doesn’t fade into the background now that they gave her a romance. I’m also hoping for more of the Canfield family. Idk if there will be any progress on the Coulter family front, but I would like to see them adopt an older child or at least decide to sometime later this season. Nothing against them finding fulfillment without a child (I love a happy childless couple!), but it’s been established they want to be parents and it would be nice for them to do that as well. I do hope Henry comes back without Abigail! I’d miss Henry, but I don’t miss Abigail lol. I won’t be mad if she comes back, but I don’t want her either. Looking forward to whatever the season brings!

More story with the Canfields.

Don’t care

Any other comments?

I will only watch to support Kevin, Kayla, and Jaeda. Nathan was by far by favorite character on the show. Kevin McGarry deserves better than this decision and I hope that they will give his character more air time next season

Everybody calm down. There was nothing new, better, worse, different, or surprising about how this season was written/handled. We don't watch WTCH for it's sparkling dialogue and satisfying storylines. We hope for something showing decent people living good lives with faith and optimism, and they still manage to do that (and have finally brought back the "faith" part of this with the arrival of a new pastor) even if they screw the pooch with the details.

I understand why people were mad about the finale, but idk all this hate on IG us just rude and disrespectful to the crew

Team Nathan!

I cannot enjoy WCTH because it’s not remotely entertaining if you can’t trust you understanding of the story over time.

None

This was my first season watching live and despite the fallout from the triangle I had fun

Nothing I haven't or you haven't or the fandom hasn't already covered. I'm just disappointed in all the potential they threw out the window. I have zero trust in the PTB. They don't care about these characters.

I will pretend that the series finale was season 7. I don’t know how I will ever love the show like I used too. I’m too tired of the letdowns.

You’re the best, I’m so thankful you let us vent and give us sane, logical takes about this show. OH and all you Team Nathan people boycott the crap out of this show and maybe they will reverse their decision to Nathan on the love triangle. At these tank the ratings. You don’t owe the show runners anything for destroying this show.  

I truthfully haven't seen a single episode. Had it recorded and followed this blog and live viewing comments on the FB page. After hearing how everything went down in the last episode, I have absolutely no desire to watch the season. I could have forgiven Elizabeth for how she acted towards everyone if it was truly her working through her fears of being with another Mountie. But since that wasn't the case, I have a lot of dislike for her (and the writers) now.

Thanks for your blog. I appreciate it. There must be a reason for how this turned out. Although we we can't see it and will probably never know the answer. It suck

I was Team Nathan for a long time - pretty much two years.  I saw the writing on the wall when Lucas said he would wait and again when Elizabeth was resistant to moving forwarding with Nathan at so many steps along the way.  Even the hand holding post wedding seemed intentionally friend zone. And look on her face when she realized that she was acting with Nathan like she did with Jack, to me that was the end.  All the signs were there.  Some people were so routed in Nathan that they couldn't see another possibility.  I have opened my mind to Lucas because I love the show.  And you know what - it's not so bad in land of Lucas and Elizabeth.  For those who are devastated and done, maybe down the road, when you're feeling less heart broken, you might want to try going back and watching with a more open mind.  There is some pretty hot stuff there.  Because of my love for Nathan (and yes, I still love him!) I couldn't have said that a year ago. :)  

It's not because my guy didn't win the girl, but because this story is getting too much like a soap opera and in the case of that last love scene, a little trashy for a family show.

After next season I will look at the recap.  If you have changed Elizabeth's stupid decision I will watch again, if not, there are plenty of other shows to watch.

The love triangle wasn’t real in the true sense of the word since Elizabeth never went on a date with Nathan.

Brian Bird is a jerk.

I have never been so mad and sad  at the conclusion of a TV show..not really my personality.  BUT the chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth was undeniable.  Nathan proved over three seasons to be his own unique character, and fans would not have labeled him as Jack 2.0.  There would have been plenty more stories to tell.  Now I think I am done watching.  The other characters are great, but the story is mostly Elizabeth’s....the way it was created and, in spite of Jack’s death, the way it has continued.  I honestly think the producers want a show that is going to last for a long, long time, so it needs to begin focusing on other characters.  And I also think that Nathan and Elizabeth would have been so great together that the spotlight would have stayed on them.  This would have wrecked the direction the producers want the show to go, but instead the show is just wrecked by a new formula that isn’t working.

What a relief that I can move on and actually feel so good about it. Yippee!

I was really enjoying this season, I thought they were doing really well and better than they ever have and then in the last episode it felt so rushed and thrown together without any thought!!! That ruined the entire season for me. I can’t even go back and watch it again because it’s all for nothing! It was so obvious that E was in love with N but just scared of her past, I was waiting for something to happen for her to realize. And maybe to see the quote that N gave her again. It seemed that L was just a rebound/distraction I didn’t see one ounce of affection from E toward L. And what about the bachelorette party? Didn’t that mean she was meant to be with N? And the touch in the library? They were portrayed as “sparks” but apparently it was mistaking him for Jack??? Come on, we are meant to believe that garbage??? There was none of those scenes with L, what love story are they talking about in the last scene? So many things! How can N say it was L all along when we saw zero evidence of that!

I’m finished with the show. I do not care to see how S9 plays out. They do not deserve my time after the complete disregard to viewers time and investment over the last 8 years. I am appalled at the reaction from Brian Bird and Chris McNally. I have never been so offended as a fan. I will not watch so they can send their rude tweets to the very few people that still watch their show. I’m DONE!!!

Disappointed in Elizabeth but think back to season 2 and how she led on Charles...no surprise with how she treated poor Nathan

I'm going to watch Season 9. Just skip over E's storylines. I now hate her.

Too many storylines this season, writers need to tighten it up. Love triangle was handled the worst possible way it could be handled.

This season was a disappointment unfortunately. And not only because of Elizabeth, but also because my favorite characters either weren’t a big enough part of the storyline or they just were so different from previous seasons.

I'm still so shocked at the outcome of this finale. It's even more egregious to me because they managed to ruin just about every character and it was so unnecessary. I wish they had Elizabeth choose Lucas in the first episode of this season that way they could have let them grow together while also letting Nathan begin to move on and Nathan and Lucas to begin a friendship. But they took it so far and raked everybody through the coals that I just can't imagine any of that happening right now in a realistic way. I think I'm the most upset because there is a world where I would have been fine with Elizabeth choosing Lucas. But they spent the whole season + prior seasons showing us that her love for Nathan was deeper, that there was more to explore there and that her time with Lucas was limited & she couldn't be with him because she kept thinking about Nathan (I don't care what any one says, that is what was done) that I couldn't even get into the relationship between Elizabeth & Lucas. Then at the last second went JK NOT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WERE DOING AND YOU'RE STUPID FOR THINKING THAT! It's just so unbelievable.

Unsure if I will watch

Very disappointed with the finale.

They got it so wrong...

The love triangle was annoying and a straight line. Elizabeth was horribly written.  Nathan was screwed over. TeamNathan got screwed over.  I will still watch just to see what happens next.  I will not let Elizabeth/Lucas storyline ruin it for me.

The finale was my favorite episode of the series. I’m so happy they didn’t go down the same road  as jack with her picking Nathan .I love Nathan’s character as a Mountie but NOT with Elizabeth. I’m so looking forward to seeing her and Lucas as a happy in love couple I’m just so happy  and there kisses were so beautiful and passionate I couldn’t love them more.

They made the case for a beautiful love story between Nathan and elizabeth- not for Lucas and Elizabeth. The ending of that triangle was not believable for me. Kevin McGarry is a fabulous actor with tremendous range and seems to bring out the best in any scene partner he has had. He has always been believable in everything I have seen him in. He is a true leading man and they should be treating him better or he will/does not have to stay with the show. I am not trying to trash Chris McNally, but he is rather limited as an actor and looks almost wooden in some scenes. I can't always hear his dialogue because he speaks too low or too fast sometimes and he is not always believable for me- nice to look at, yes, but not the actor Kevin is. Maybe they partnered him with Erin so she could help him develop more. I love Allie, Rosemary, Henry, Bill, and Fiona and can see some great stories ahead for them if the writers don't screw things up. I would never be able to stomach Lori Loughlin and Abigail again, and I feel they will force her back on the fans next season. As evidenced by the love scenes in the finale, Hallmark is changing this show forever- it will be edgier, sexier and much less "Christian-based". Not sure if the Hearties will accept that. I don't really care anymore as I am no longer supporting Hallmark channel. Don't like the mess they made this season, or many of the changes made in their movies of late. I have found myself tuning out a great deal. I hope people like Kevin McGarry, Jaeda, Kayla Wallace and Pascale are seen i other non-Hallmark projects so I can enjoy seeing their work. Really disenchanted with Erin Krakow's performances of late.

Thanks for all the work you do running this blog!

I’m very happy with this season I will continue watching as long as it continues. Does anyone here watch new Amsterdam tv series?

Love that they took characters who are always in the background and gave them actual storylines.

I think I’m in the anger phase of grieving. I’m sorry if the answers cause a reopening of wounds but it feels right to me to call them on their shit by voicing the injustice of treating your viewers this way. These writers just told the laziest, quickest, ficklest (?) “love story” I have ever seen, EVER.

Thank you so much for everything you've done this past season! I really enjoy your blog and your insights on the show as well.

There can be a conflict with women owning business (no offense) and other women in the show working and having families. Please keep the show from becoming so feminist. Please retain some strong men.

Thanks for the survey!

I hope season 9 explains things and or finishes plots left behind in season 8.

That ending really just made no sense at all..what was the point of the whole season before it?!

Nope!

Terribly written finale. So rushed and smacked together. Yuck

Sigh... it really was a letdown after it seemed that all the signs were pointing to Elizabeth facing her fears and accepting the love of Nathan and loving him in return and them being one big, happy family.

This was my first season watching WCTH in years (since like season 2), so I’m glad I wasn’t too invested just to be disappointed in the end with the decision Elizabeth made.

I hate that Elizabeth used to be my favorite character to the point of seeing myself in her, but now I really dislike her. On the bright side, at least I've grown to love Rosemary enough for her to be my new favorite!

I think the writers need to listen to their audience and work to smooth out this bumpy season. I hope the writers are more selective with the storylines they choose so that those arcs can be fully developed. For example, Jesse being missing in the last two episodes was mishandled in my opinion. So few people cared that he was gone and I don't think the writers even fully explained what happened to him.

So glad the triangle is over, and I hope we never see anything like it for anyone else again.

Overall I liked this season (except the love triangle stuff) but I don't know if it will be enough to keep me watching. Guess I'll have to see how season 9 plays out.

I'm glad Carson is gone lmao. I'd be pretty happy if I never saw him again. Henry better be back. Lucas and Elizabeth can move to Hamilton...seriously. Baby Jack deserves a more attentive and present mother. But honestly, keep Carson away & write Lucas and Elizabeth off and I'd be DELIGHTED and actually stoked for season 9.

The stories are lame.  I want more Lee and Rosemary.  I did not like Christopher/Rachel.  And, why are they doing with Henry?  It’s all confusing.

Please consider reversing Elizabeth's choice. She and Nathan look so good together.  Lucas is too lecherous looking in my opinion.

I wonder if Rachel will return will Lucas and Nathan become friends?

The season sucked! The writing was poor and there really wasn’t a triangle. They misled and lied to the viewers. It would have been easier to accept Elizabeth’s decision if we saw her date both men and see how it worked out with each of them. The writers never gave Nathan the opportunity but instead used him as a punching bag the whole season.

I can’t even bear to rewatch any of the seasons after that ending. I’m so glad I didn’t preorder the season—and I’ve canceled my HM subscription.

Get new writers!

I was for either guy at the beginning of the season. All they had to do was show me the love story. They didn’t do that.

The choice of Lucas was ridiculous. Will no longer watch the show. I’m very sad.

If you are going to have Elizabeth and Lucus in a relationship I would hope that you would work on him becoming more child friendly. If he doesn’t accept little Jack then he doesn’t deserve Elizabeth. They are a package deal.

Love the show. I think people that threaten to stop watching because “Team Nathan” are just bellyaching and will wind up watching it again just to have something to grouse about. It’s just a TV show, people. If it always goes the way you want you’ll just complain that the writing is getting stale!

love your blog

Extremely disappointed with this season. Will no longer watch.

No

This season felt like it was perfectly setting up for the next. It felt like a lot of new beginnings were being set up leaving us ready to explore.

I’m personally Team Lucas so I’ve been happy with the decision but I actually think if Nathan had “won” it would have been more interesting for Lucas in s9 so actually think Nathan as a character will have a better, more interesting s9

I said the season was good and the writing was, but I will clarify that the finale TOTALLY ruined the underlying track that was being built up for Elizabeth to choose Nathan. I don’t believe that the script writers gave Nathan the chance that they gave Lucas. Elizabeth grilled him to try to find him guilty of wrong, but Lucas had a number of shady deals that reveal poor character and Elizabeth did not find out about those and have a chance to grill him. If she knew those things, would she still be choosing him? Elizabeth was allowed to be “charmed” by his superficial lifestyle and empty promises. Because of Lucas’s shady dealings, he and Elizabeth almost got killed in the saloon. Later, he said he would never let anything happen to her. Nathan was the one who saved Elizabeth and Nathan’s life in that scene. Lucas is a talker with empty promises and Nathan is the one who actually rescued Elizabeth from Lucas’s bad deeds. The ending of Season 8, Episode 12 is NOT even logical. She needed someone like Nathan to protect her from Lucas. If this is REALLY who Elizabeth is, I don’t want to watch her. She does not follow her own advice. Once Lucas’s full character is revealed, we would only have to watch her get hurt over and over.. I CANNOT watch an Elizabeth and Lucas love story. The writers should not be biased against Nathan just because he was a Mountie. He should be seen for himself. Also, if Elizabeth cannot love Nathan because he might get killed this is not a strong enough reason. Lucas could get killed. She told Ned that he could miss the joy if he didn’t go thru with his wedding with Florence. This should have indicated that she would get over her own fears so that she could experience joy with Nathan.

I truly hope everyone gets to the end of season 9 and is pleasantly surprised.  It is the eternal optimist in me, but I would love to see getting there and being unable to imaging things being any other way, despite the heartbreak we all feel for the series right now.  As I mentioned, I have my doubts, however am trying very, very hard to keep an open mind.

I hated the way Nathan was treated this season and won’t be watching anymore.

You are amazing for what you do with this blog and I thank you for your efforts to make it so enjoyable day after day.

No

I think my opinion on this site is in the minority, but Lucas and Elizabeth have solid chemistry and the chance for an interesting relationship. However, I would have been cool with Nathan too.  I love Kevin McGarry and want to see more of his fun side as he dates and raises Ally.  Could absolutely be a great relationship between Fiona and Nathan, but someone new could be exciting too if it's the right person.  Happy the triangle is over. Disappointed at the number of self-proclaimed "Hearties" who are acting like angry (Team Nathan) or gloating (Team Lucas) children.  I love this show because it's about kindness, being decent to one another, and forgiveness.  I had hoped fans on all sides would follow that lead, but not so much I guess. Here's to hoping we all embrace the Hope Valley way, putting the triangle behind us and moving on to whatever comes next!

I thought I would continue to watch even if she chose Lucas but after the way the season played out, I feel like TPTB care more about generating drama for the ratings than good storytelling and I won’t be used like that again.

I gave season 8 an average rating because I liked the stories about Nathan/Allie, the arrival of the Canfields, the love story of Florence/Ned and finally the story of Henry and his son.

Fans need to stop getting hung up on everything BB and the actors say to manipulate viewers into watching. I learned that lesson the hard way from Pretty Little Liars. We were misled over and over by the showrunner and let down every season finale. The series finale was the longest hour of  ridiculous shit to ever air on tv. We were looking for clues the whole time (7 years) and there were no clues, just a lot of pointless crap. I never pay attention to anything BB says on social media or what actors say in interviews. I watch WCTH without looking for clues or expecting any outcome. I saw E picking L a mile away. I like the idea of a heartbroken Nathan getting his own romantic storyline and look forward to that new love story next season.

This was a very good season I like the direction they went with this season and I’m very happy the triangle is finally over and she ended up with the man of her dreams. Lucas and Elizabeth are endgame .

Screwed us over big time. Not just us but the characters too. Nothing made sense and the whole season was for nothing because the story didnt go anywhere. Dont trust Hallmark anymore to write a complete, meaningful, and satisfying story. They disrespected everything about storytelling, the show, and disrespected the community that watched and supported the content. Someone either stupid, bitter, vengeful, or horny decided this finale. F them

Thank you for all you do!

The more I read about the writers of this show and some of the actors responses to the fans disappointment, the Lee’s I want anything yo do with this show. They’re arrogant, disrespectful; I guess thy think they’re so popular that everyone will tune in again next year. They think they have it in the bag. Nope! I believe season 9 will be a failure and probably their last one.

I don't hate the season but the bad balanced out the good so severely I felt like it was just a 'meh' season. I guess that's still an improvement from how I felt about S6 and 7, though.

Hopefully HM fires John Tinker his writing was awful.  I don’t mean the triangle everything was dumb and disjointed

I don't know why I watch this show.  But I must enjoy it on some level.  

Been a fan from day one - you lost 70% of your viewers. Some comments from   WCTH have made the fans feel if you don’t like their story line don’t watch - they are correct - I won’t ! Should of listen to the 70%. Good luck with your viewer ship you forgot who pays you!

I was surprised that E. was so insensitive leading Nathan on for so long.   She is also very materialistic and obviously chose Lucas for all that he could do for her without much depth.

Honestly, I mainly watch the show for Rosemary and Lee. I would like to see them become parents at some point, but I would also like a little more of Rosemary’s backstory. We gotten some of Lee’s backstory. I think it would be interesting to meet some of Rosemary’s family at some point. I am glad that Lee and Rosie are finding their niches career wise.

I just don’t see Lucas as Jack’s father. He hasn’t cared one whit for the boy, and yet the boy is everything to Elizabeth?? Doesn’t make sense. Since I don’t want Abigail back, I hope Henry isn’t going to get her. Alas that also means I think he’s likely left the show. Maybe good for Martin, since it has veered so far away from its beginning.  Thanks for all your work on this Melanie. I value it a lot!

I wish I could take back the last three years of life that I invested in this show. If I had known they would do this I never would have come back after Jack's death. Despite that, I still love and adore and am invested in Nathan and Allie, and some other side characters. But I can't even fathom watching season 9 after what the writers did. My WCTH, the one I loved and enjoyed, ended with season 7.

No

Bring Elizabeth and Nathan together

See Elizabeth and nathan hitched and get married  

love the show Wish there wasn't such a long wait for the next season

I hope they can redeem themselves. I'm a true hearty and I've never missed an episode. I can't stomach the person Elizabeth is becoming. I will stop watching if she doesn't go back to the Elizabeth we fell in love with.

New actors for Ally and little Jack, or less time on screen

The storytelling was not coherent; storylines started and ended abruptly with no flow. They need to get back to the roots of the show and make it more of a family drama again, not an over-the-top soap opera.

Chris McNally and Brian Bird’s attitudes are contemptible. I was not happy with the finale and how everything played out, but their comments have set me over the edge to choose not to support anything they are in or a part of. Rude, self righteous attitudes from both. I’m done.

I am shocked at my own reactions. A TV show shouldn't have so much affect on me but I am truly unhappy with Elizabeth's choice...and I think I am crazy because it is really bothering me!!

I am upset how the season ended. She picked the wrong man. I see no chemistry there.

Honestly no, I am not happy with how the characters were written, both Lucas and Nathan deserved better, Elisabeth came across as constantly freaking out and not following her heart while running over a lot of people (Rosemary, Nathan and Allie in particular) but she's never been my favourite character anyway, so whatever.

p.s. thank you so much for all your amazing work! I love your gifs and your blog <3 keep it up!

Elizabeth’s character has changed drastically.  She has become  egotistical, pompous, cruel, The character that Jeanette Oke originally wrote is nothing like the Elizabeth we now have.

Elizabeth played games with Nathan and Lucas just like she did with Jack and Charles. The series was written about a school teacher and a Mountie.  Not so anymore.

The betrayal of the original story and the fan base is hard to overcome.

I have completely changed my opinion about this show, Erin Krakow, and the direction this series is going in.

This season had so much promise but the finale left me angry. Agree with other comments that if they had invested in a better story for E&L it would be different. Warming the serge was the only time E “might” have been confusing Nathan for Jack. Their relationship was so different... single parenting, especially. Their love story could’ve been even more epic than E & J. Just a real shame. Will not continue to watch. Moving on.

no

The writer's blew this. I am absolutely disgusted with the character of Elizabeth. There is no way a school teacher and mother would have been allowed to associate with a saloon owner in that time period without being run out of town. It's ridiculous that they expect fans to be okay with this.

If I decide to watch, I will skip the Elizabeth and Lucas scenes.

I just discovered your Tumblr site yesterday: it a really comprehensive and insightful work!

Thank you so much for your blog, I seriously need a place to vent and scream for a while. This is ridiculous.

Tell your bean counter I will not be watching .  Hallmark has gone WOKE.

Hopefully John tinker will continue a show runner he did a wonderful job brought some new life to help Valley

I’m very happy with all of the promising storylines in season 9 , Rosemary and Lee’s business vendors, faith being the head doctor Henry’s story Elizabeth and Lucas finally being a couple there is a lot of promise in season 9

Tinker and the producers destroyed in 1 season, what Moreno worked so hard in weaving and building up a beautiful storyline with Nathan and Elizabeth to form the Grant family.  They have to understand that fans are leaving not because of Elizabeth's final choice. The reason is that Tinker and the producers disregarded the premise and the family wholesomeness of the show, and debased it by making it into a poorly written soap opera with lots of shouting and cheap superficial steamy scenes and called it "romance'. They did not take the time to carefully development of storyline of why Elizabeth's decision. If they have done a good job leading to Lucas as a decision, I think that Team Nathan's fans would have accepted the choice. Instead, they played with fans emotions and hurt them badly through the season from both Teams misleading them and make them think who was the endgame. They need to realize that we watch WCTH because of the feel good and heart warming story. The fans kept to the end because they wanted to see their guy been chosen, even though there was lots of anger and disappointment. Who really wants to watch a show that does not entertain us in a heartwarming way. Tinker and the producers are arrogant, prideful, foolish, and not to be trusted and have no integrity to go back to what WCTH values that kept the loyal Hearties coming back yearly. They destroyed all Moreno's hard work to rescue the show after season 5.  We wanted a family friendly clean show that make us happy and hopeful.  The show is shifting to likes of Dallas and Dynasty with steamy scenes, skimpy clothes, bickering and may become darker stories.  

Tinker did a horrendous job by introducing too many disjointed scenes and characters that led nowhere. He did not take the opportunity to develop the story behind Allie's dad, Rosemary and Lee barely had any storyline, many couples bickering and destroyed Elizabeth's character as a morally strong caring woman. The "new" Elizabeth in this season was cruel, mean, self-centred, uncaring and was not really sorry or remorseful for her actions that hurt Nathan and Allie badly, as well as Rosemary. Is unrealistic that Nathan was the one who convinced Lucas to stay.

Positives of the show was Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Loved the Nathan and Allie's storyline.  Nathan portrayed as the noble, sacrificial, kind, wise, heroic and because he loved Elizabeth, he let her go. It showed that Nathan was the better man with an impeccable character.

After this season, Elizabeth has been cheapened to a weak character that did not overcome fear, getting onto people's affair (Especially into Nathan's even when she rejected him, which gave him false hopes), was attracted to wealth and superficial romance, instead of the deep abiding unconditional love with Nathan. She became hypocritical by giving everybody advise and yet she did opposite to what she was saying. This Elizabeth did not deserve to have Nathan. He is too good for her. I don't know what will happen to littleJack as I can't see Lucas to love Jack as his own. He might be raised by nannies (as Elizabeth have already done)  and become a Little Lord Fauntleroy.

If the writers and producers are smart, they should focus on developing a compelling and heartfelt story for Nathan. In my opinion, he is the favourite character that embodies all the good values in When Calls the Heart, even through his imperfections. If they focus on Nathan and weave a great story, they may get some of Team Nathan fans coming back to the show and avoid cancellation after season 9.

Thank you for providing a platform to voice my opinion and disappointment of Tinker and the producers (eg Bird, Erin Krakow) ruining a show that could have been wonderful with lovely storylines for years to come.

It is time to move on from the love triangle.  No matter what a fan group was going to be heartbroken.  No point feeling so betrayed. We were never promised an outcome one way or the other so there was no betrayal.  There was only disappointment of not getting what we wanted.

This was my least favorite season overall.  The main characters didn't seem quite themselves, key couples weren't in sync, no compelling storylines other than the arrival of the wonderful Canfields, Elizabeth & Rosemary were even on the outs.  Missed the kids (although completely understand why they couldn't be there). And very, very disappointed in the ending.  Not a fan of Lucas' character at all.

Hallmark really dropped it on this one. Look at the survey and polls  the  fans wanted Nathan! A good show ruined.  If this was the plan for Elizabeth a different actor should have been cast as Lucas.  No chemistry , a saloon owner it just makes NO sense. The storylines are so disappointing. I am done!

I have some complaints, but overall I liked the season and am genuinely excited for season nine! Positive feelings here for sure! Still, I understand and respect that a sizeable portion of the fandom is upset (I was prepared to be completely crushed myself so I Get It). Since the love triangle ended the way I wanted, I’m relieved and prepared to just enjoy whatever comes our way next.

PS to the person behind this survey and blog - we have some ugh... disagreements, but you have contributed so much to this fandom with your gifs and these surveys. Thank you so much for that. <3

Ratings were down in the key 18-49 demo by 10 percent last year, and now 20 percent this year while total viewers remain flat. I guess we’ll see if their gamble pays off next season. But it really seems like a lot of their most loyal fans really got hurt, and as we know, karma is a b%^^. So much for the showrunner righting the ship.

[chaos-in-the-making]

Between al the gifs set and posts I'm starting to getting curious about that asian serie (the unbreakable? The unteamable? Sorry, I'm bad with titles) so I have some question before diving in head first.

What is the plot about exactly? From what I've understood is two brother, one of witch is a necromant fighting things in China (?) and there is some sort of romance? And a lady that I think is a witch? Idk.

Also, any warning that I should be ready for when I start watching? Major trigger? Like, if it was a fic, witch tag would use? Especially for gore, blood, violence, things like that, because I'm a little squeamish...

And at the end: where can I watch it? Possibility subtitled in english, because sure as hell I don't speak any Asiatic language (except a couple of weabo terms from my anime days, but you know, is not feasible).

Thanks in advace for your help! Like, really, thank you <3

- A maybe future fan

OH HONEY OK LET ME HELP

Yes, it's called "The Untamed" and I watched it on Netflix with subtitles. I don't think there is a dubbed version?? But the videos are also on YouTube, and there is a translated novel that I will later post the link for. The show is a REALLY good and an accurate representation of the book, with some minor changes. But on the whole, I really enjoyed both watching the show and reading the book.

AS FOR PLOT!!

It's a Chinese fairy tale setting. Ancient Chinese dress and such, with magic and spiritual beliefs, and Chinese folklore. I'm not as familiar with Chinese folklore, so it was very enjoyable to learn about it. The plot itself is about these Clans (think of noble houses) who all practice what I can best describe as "Ghost hunting", but that is a MAJOR understatement. Think of Japan's shinigami and ghost hunting and putting unsettled souls at rest. The unsettled souls are typically shown as "zombies", or just walking corpses. Dead people with unsolved business or grudges come back as walking corpses. It's more campy than scary, so don't be alarmed. I personally don't like Western Zombies, and these are nothing like that. That being said, there are plenty of mangled bodies and body horror. There are clan politics and war that can get a little confusing, but still easy to follow.

Ugh, how to even describe the PLOT.

First we get 30 episodes of backstory, where we see three siblings attend this "school", where the troublesome brother (known as Wei Wuxian) gets into all sorts of mischief and makes it his personal mission to send the Perfect Student (known as Lan Wangji) to the loony bin by breaking as many rules as humanly possible. The school antics are WONDERFUL. The backstory takes us through the story of how Wei Wuxian begins to forsake the "good" path of culvitating spirits, for the "evil" path of manipulating spirits and ghosts for his own gain. Lots of misunderstanding about that. There's love, heartbreak, and drama. Wei Wuxian cracks and breaks in my FAVORITE trope of good guy going insane.

The show starts off with Wei Wuxian falling off a cliff to his death.

HOWEVER. About 10 years later (THEY SAY 16 IN THE SHOW BUT THE BOOK IS MORE ACCURATE), someone with so much rage and hatred actually sacrifices his own body to bring Wei Wuxian's soul back. However, in exchange for his new body, Wei Wuxian must find and carry out this person's revenge, or the wounds on his body will never heal.

So Wei Wuxian thinks on his feet, gathers information, and thankfully runs headlong into his boyfriend from the school days, and together they investigate some rather disturbing events about the death of another major character, and how it's connected to some very important people. It seems their steps are also being watched, and guided, by an unseen hand.

IT'S VERY GAY, BUT IT'S ALL SUBTEXT. I understand that Chinese restrictions ban the overt representation of homosexual behavior, but they are very much in love, and very much married in the book. Like for real. Married and consummated. I have squealed and kicked the couch for how FUCKING IN LOVE THEY ARE.

As for trigger warnings!!

Blood. Lots of it. People get killed, heads get cut off, bodies get mangled. But it's not like Western gore that tries to be as realistic and as gross as possible. I dont like gore, and I was able to handle this. A lot of times the characters will just randomly spit out blood to show that they have internal injuries, or have used too much spiritual energy.

Character deaths. This show has EVERYTHING from fluff to slow burn to DEEP AGONISING ANGUISH. A couple of characters even commits suicide, but it's not dwelled upon.

Torture. Not explicit, but we see the results. Like one person gets their eyes gouged out, and we see a bandage over their eyes. Punishment that is basically torture. Stuff like that.

Violence. Lots of fighting bc there is a clan war.

It's up to you if you think it's too much, but personally it is much easier to watch than Western shows like Walking Dead. I HATE zombies, but these guys are ok. Also, they are called "puppets" bc Wei Wuxian can control them.

THIS WAS REALLY LONG BUT I HOPE IT INTRIGUES YOU AND YOU GO AND WATCH SOME OF IT. The first two episodes are in the "future" arc, and then it goes back in time to when they are young. PLEASE COME BACK AND SCREAM AT MEEEEEEEE.

[theyoontomyjin]

Is This Fate? - 2

- CHAT FIC -

Pairing: Park Jimin & Jeon Jungkook

Summary: There is a God roaming Jeon Jungkook's college campus - a God with bleach blond hair, sweater paws, and the most beautiful smile he has ever seen. He'll get the courage to speak to him soon, he swears, and then he'll build a temple and worship this man's ass until the end of his days.

There is a wrong number on Jeon Jungkook's phone - a number belonging to someone named Diminie who is funny and kind, someone that gets him, someone that he can't stop thinking about.

***

Diminie

sorry if this is actually really weird but

i just had a horrible date and when I was wondering if love is a lie I remembered you

your story was so cute and I know it’s been a couple days but any progress???

JK

If by progress you mean have I seen God again yes

he was wearing a big blue sweater that nearly hit his knees and all I could think about was that he’s so smol I bet all my clothes would fit him like that

Diminie

so u like small guys then

JK

I guess? I never really thought about types

why was your date horrible

Diminie

that would be because my friend tae tae is an asshole

i love him but he keeps setting me up on blind dates

and im pretty sure they are all his rejects

but he says they are “nice” and he wants to help me “find the one”

I don’t think the one is going to be a 45 year old lawyer that keeps hinting that his office is really close to the cafe and i can see the tan line where his wedding ring usually is

JK

Ouch

Diminie

Yeah

anyway

that’s why i plan to live vicariously through you

Im going to help you get ya man and remind myself that love is not a myth

JK

you’re going to be disappointed then because im a lost cause

I can’t even say hi to this guy

he actually started walking down the hallway i was in today and i turned and hid in the bathroom for twenty minutes

Diminie

lmao

JK

u mock my pain

r u sure you’re not Yoongi hyung

Diminie

Nope

Although i swear i've heard that name

JK

he's pretty popular here on campus somehow

I've always thought he was so antisocial

But another friend of his pops up every week

I’m starting to think he pays them

Diminie

So you’re all in college then too?

Where do you go?

JK

Why? So you can find me and steal everything i have

Jokes on you i don’t have anything

Except a wall of ramen cups and my switch

Pls dont take my switch

Diminie

I have my own dummy

No just asking because i go to Konkuk

JK

oh shit me too

what's your major?

Diminie

dance education

i want to be a choreographer

U?

JK

Nice

film video and photographic arts is the official title

I like being behind a camera i guess

Haven't figured out what i'm going to do with it yet

Diminie

u still have time to figure it out im sure

What year

JK

Freshmen

Diminie

Yeah, you have plenty of time

I’m a sophomore this year and they are only just now starting to crack down on core classes and stuff

JK

Kinda weird that of all the wrong numbers it’s actually someone this close

But i guess your number is only one off from my friends so maybe not that weird

Diminie

and lucky for you i’m not a creep that will use this information for anything insane

JK

So you say

Diminie

true

thanks for the distraction btw

You probably weren’t expecting either of us to text again

but all of my friends are too nosy and “helpful” to talk to about the date

JK

i understand

If i tell my friends anything they take it on themselves to solve it for me

Because they think im five and cant solve my own shit

Diminie

Well to be fair to them your solution is to hide in the bathroom

JK

That was once

Maybe twice

Diminie

Just kidding

I understand tho

Tae Tae keeps throwing these guys at me like i can’t be happy unless im dating

Which im lonely and stuff sometimes since my friends are all off with their boyfriends all the time

But i think drowning me in bad dates is making it worse

JK

And you can’t tell him that?

Diminie

I could but he’d probably start crying and blame himself for make me sad

he’s just trying to help, i know

Anyway

This is getting sad

tell me about your man

JK

Ujdahfoawoef

there’s nothing to tell

I'm a coward that is going to die alone

Diminie

I have a test that i need to study for but ill leave you with a challenge

Say one sentence to him

u don’t have to say anything about liking him or use a pick up line

It could even just be you saying hello then running away

JK

Realistically that’s most likely what would happen

Good luck on your test

Diminie

Thanks! Let me know when you speak to him! I'm so curious!!!

***

[beepathan]

ok ive decided to just dump every thought i have on this post. buffoonery under the cut

ONE! AND HERE COMES THE TWO TO THE THREE BROS IN THE PLACE TO BE ICHIBANTTE DOUBLE B I shit i forgot the rest DOO DO DO DOOOO DO DO DO DO DOOOOO DOD OOOOO DO DOOOOOOOOOOO DOOOO DOOOOOD OOOOOD OOOOOD ODDOODOOOO i doubt thatd register as the pattern i intended it to to any one who read it. goddddd i need to yell and make noise but i CANTTTTTT flowers that bloom in the darkness its a sighting that is rare to come across nobody seems to have noticdd thay the power that has been bestowed is lust riding through the twilight this armory. protects my HEATRRRTT BADBADBABBDBADBABDBABBABBABDBDBBBBDBADBABDBABDBADBBADBABDBADBABDBADBABDABBBDBBADBANDBADBANDNAbDNABd cfnfn OFO GOD I WISH I COULD MAKE DUBSTEP NOISES OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!yeah being a scientist is gonna be cool and all but i really wish i could go into music or visual art or something like. i want to make things creatively i want to create sounds and colors and characters and words i dont want to spend my days in a lab or teaching biology to high schoolers who couldnt care less. i mean ok actually being in a lab would be cool hypothetically depending on what sort of science specifically i would do. ive been biting the insides of my cheeks a lt lately and i cant move my face without feeling the places where my cheeks have become thinner even just in the slightest amount. im worried about the message my sister and i’s comic might accidentally send because theres a lot of moral ambiguity and the “good guys” arent really good at all. there arent really any good guys in our story just people the narrative follows. ill take you baaaaack my valkyrieeeeeee youre coming HOOOOOMe i wont lose. hope. bBABBAAAAAAAAADADAADBABBABABA shit how longs that empty drink been there. since this morning ok. i really cant envision a realistic future for myself where im happy and fulfilled. its not very fun to think about and im worried about the state of the world becasue it doesnt look like its going to get better. like the actions everyday people can take willl never be enough and we just have to hope the people with the power to start fixing things will actually do so. but we all know they wont and thats scary. it really does feel like humanity is rushing headfirst into its self-made doom and its all because of a few people. which fucking sucks i mean like. can someone ping the mods on earth and get the fuckers permabanned or something. establish a unified planet where we help each other instead of trying to destroy each other at the cost of destroying ourselves. id go to therapy but these arent issues i can overcome, its genuinely how it is and theres realistically nothing to be done except try to cope with it while the people causing this dont bat an eye at what theyve done. every single day the people with power CHOOSE not to make things better. and for WHAT? im not religious but i hope to fuck theres an afterlife and theres justice because. god whats even the point otherwise? shit im about to start spiralling. ok ill try to think about something else. really the only way to get things done is to Do them and it seems obvious even to those who dont get things done but like. it truly is an ordeal because Doing things ends up being a more complicated process than youd think. we really are what we do and not what we feel but i think for mentos illness its kinda the opposite. even if you can hide your symptoms its about whats going on inside, and that inside stuff directly contradicts a lot of the efforts you try to make externally somehow. mind over matter, but what if the mind is deliberately trying to sabotage your efforts? then again, it isnt malicious in nature. just as much as you Are your mind, you are also a creature, acting on instinct, even if that instinct is thought through and rationalized so that you do not view it as such. in the end all that separates me from a cell is how much of me there is. how much of the world i can interact with. a cell can only interact with as much as it is a part of, but i interact with so much more than i will ever know or perceieve. countless cells, microbes and shit, ive changed and moved and killed and created more of those than ill ever know, because just as i can not perceive the infinite wonder of the universe, i can not perceieve the life that goes on at a certain level smaller than me. where does the line get drawn, for the life i perceieve? will i ever spell perceieve right? no. i have the power to spell it right, but i choose not to correct myself, because i have deemed that action worthless. is that why the people in power refuse to make things better? do they deem the safety of those controlled by their systems worthless? in the grand scheme of things, i suppose theyd be correct. someday we will all cease to exist, and none of our actions, our thoughts and feelings, the things weve seen and loved and feared and been apathetic to, will matter, because at the end of the day, we are a speck in the infinite expanse of the universe. but what if we werent? what if my actions have meaning, outside this room, outside this country, outside this galaxy? just because i think it is worthless to correct my spelling mistakes on a post no one will ever see does not make it so. the cells in my body dont find it worthless when i breathe, when i eat and drink and live and die. i think my laundry might be done drying soon

[comicteaparty]

July 22nd-July 28th, 2020 Reader Favorites Archive

The archive for the Reader Favorites chat that occurred from July 22nd, 2020 to July 28th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

How have your reading tastes for webcomics changed over the years?

carcarchu

i think i used to read exclusively romance webcomics but now i'm really into the historical stuff. also i'm not so into the strictly straightforward stuff anymore, i need a really strong hook or something that makes it different enough to be enjoyable because i'm really tired of reading something that is indistinguishable from other similar webcomics. also i think i've gotten pickier when it comes to the quality of art and writing. there's just so much stuff to pick from now that i want to dedicate my time only to stuff that i really enjoy. i just don't have enough time to read every single webcomic i come across anymore

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

in the past I used to read a bunch of comedic absurdist humor comics (I still do) but it's been buffed out by romance . Same vein like Cara said, I'm just picking and choosing which comics I spend my time on but I do want to try to read as much as I can tho!

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

I feel like I used to read LEGO comics a lot lol... I'm not sure how many of them still hold up. In terms of genre, the only comics I struggle to read are ones that are more realistic, or darker. Historical comics often fall into this, as do most horror comics.(edited)

RebelVampire

For me, my tastes haven't necessarily changed in terms of the what I like. What has changed is what I dislike. As the years have gone by, I've really been more open to at least giving comics a try before deciding they aren't for me, especially in the genres I consistently don't like like comedy. So I've gradually disliked less comics. Not to say I like them either or they're for me, but it's a step up from dislike since now I can appreciate what the comics are trying to do more. I think the bigger change for me was art styles though. While I still do have a specific sort of art preference, I've also been more open to giving certain art styles I don't normally like more of a try as well and I've found the styles I dislike (personally, not objectively in terms of talent) to be a much smaller pool than it was before.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh man, I'm the opposite. I feel like I've gotten pickier

varethane

I can't tell if I've gotten pickier or if the bar has just gotten high enough now that if I only have the bandwidth to read X number of webcomics (let's say 20 as a random example), and I'll be picking from among those which stand out to me, those 20 comics will be on a totally different level than the 20 I might have found 10 years ago

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I think I've also gotten pickier

The biggest change, I think, is that I've gotten way pickier about storytelling

While I used to be able to read a comic with subpar storytelling. I drop comics in an instant these days if the story doesn't speak to me pretty quickly(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I think it's because when I started reading comics, everything was new and novel. Now there're more tropes I recognize? And more problematic things that bother me, when before I would not have noticed

Deo101 [Millennium]

I dont think I've gotten pickier, per se, I think I just have very specific tastes and many things dont fit them which feels picky? but i can enjoy all kinds of genres, I kind of go into something 1: not wanting to think 2: not wanting to be offended and 3: wanting to laugh a bit? which isnt exactly a high bar to pass, but not many things will do that for me, which isnt because I'm a picky person, its jsut cause a lot of things arent made for peope like me?

varethane

I'm not consciously looking for 'only the best quality' by any means-- if there's anything I'm really looking for, it's a sense of passion and uniqueness, that feeling that the author is having a blast with the thing they're doing. But I feel like it's gotten harder to draw my attention (and readers' attention in general) without having a certain level of skill involved

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh, same. As my art gets better so does my eye for it

varethane

....and, yeah, I guess I've also gotten tired of certain tropes. Once I read 2 or 3 webcomics that do kinda the same thing, I'm less likely to pick up a fourth with the same general premise, even if it looks like it's well-made.

(sorry isekai....)

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

I just absorb a lot of storytelling in many forms, so if the story doesn't grab me right away, I feel like I'm wasting time reading something, where I could be fulfilling my desire for more worthwhile storytelling elsewhere

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Oh true, there are so so many comics out there now

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Art quality plays into it a bit for me, but it's honestly primarily the storytelling

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Everything I read I could be reading 100 others of similar quality Really, why does anyone read my comic at all?

varethane

"good art will get readers to take a first look, good writing is what makes them stay"

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Art quality is very important to me but I've still read and loved a few stories will amateurish art

varethane

for me personally, the art's just gotta be good enough for me to not be distracted by it while I read

Deo101 [Millennium]

idk I think a lot of people stay through bad writing even if something looks good

also yeah i feel the same, about not wanting to be distracted

"does the art serve the story?" is all I really care about

varethane

art serving the story is the most important part. Art can LOOK amazing, but if the body language or expressions don't fit the story being told, it can make the writing seem worse lol

a friend of mine once referred to it as, like watching a well-written screenplay but with terrible miscast actors

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm, cause the only words we get are dialogue, the art has to be all the descriptive language. so if theyre not describing well, a lot is missing.

varethane

yeah

Deo101 [Millennium]

or I guess some comics have narration, too

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Narration can't do ALL of the work

varethane

yeah haha

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah, one of my professors said that a rule of thumb of his about comics is "if you can read me the words and I know whats going on, it's not good comics."

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

The art definitely serves the story (or is supposed to), but if the story is bad from the beginning, I don't care how good the art is.

varethane

I have complicated feelings on that one, because I feel like it's actually pretty rare for me to consider a 'story' bad (at least insofar as we're talking about the core ideas of the plot). Most premises (if they're not actively offensive/poorly thought through), if written out as just a skeletal outline, could work just fine. IMO bad writing is a problem of execution, most of the time, rather than concept. (hedging my language here because there's always exceptions lol)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I would say I agree with you. I think writing and story are different concepts. There is also sort of a macro/micro element to writing, as well, and either one can be messed up

Cronaj ~{Whispers of the Past}~

Yeah, I misspoke, what I mean by "bad story" is more "bad storytelling/writing"

but yes

carcarchu

a friend of mine once referred to it as, like watching a well-written screenplay but with terrible miscast actors

@varethane oh i have read stuff like this. like the art was INCREDIBLE really detailed renders, very consistent and technically fantastic art but so often it just devolved into shot / reverse shot talking heads and the characters didn't really emote beyond changing the position of their eyebrows so it kinda felt like watching dolls interact with each other

RebelVampire

I mulled over the fact I took the opposite route as everyone else. XD For me I think it's three factors. First, I was actually ungodly picky in my youth across the board with everything, not just comics. As such, I've missed out on a lot of things other people love. Second, with each passing year, I've come to appreciate more the work people put into their indie projects. And for me its like a show of respect in a way to acknowledge that hey, you worked on this thing I may not like, but I'll try it because you clearly love what you created (or I hope you love it). Third, and probably the bigger factor, I stuck myself in a positive feedback loop. The more I opened myself up to things and learned to not initially dislike things or be as harsh, the more I ended up finding a gem I really loved. In fact, while this is across diff industries, I'd say this has been the biggest influence for me with webcomics because so many webcomics I was like "Well I'll try it gotta be open and not just dislike it," and then I came away going "Wow this is a diamond in the rough!"

[sights-on-the-scifi]

Violence in MASS EFFECT.

Alright Tumblr i’m gonna try even harder to satisfy your content laws... God I hope this posts.

MASS EFFECT 2 Marked a change in the creative direction of the series in many ways not just limited to style and presentation. But also in how it tackled violence in its narrative and gameplay.

It developed a near uncritical affection for its violence. Removing any semblance of scepticism towards its application with exception to a few storied and mechanical instances all for which will be talked about as we progress.

VIOLENCE IN GAMES AND OTHER FORMS OF MEDIA AS A WHOLE.

Before we begin ill like to explain to you why violence in a video game is so fun to the player on a mechanical basis. You see video game violence is complete fantasy that much is obvious just from looking at it I hope, it has no real basis in reality. For example the simple fact being that you are interacting with simulated combat via mouse and keyboard on a flat 2D surface, not with your hands, feet, arms, firearms, grenades and depth perception... Some games like the first CALL OF DUTY title go out of their way to communicate this very important distinction to you with its death quotes system, which communicates a famous anti war saying every time you die on the digital battlefield, and you do die a lot in the game so the words always have time to sink in...

The chest high wall games of wack a mole and close range engagements you typically find yourself in are inherently ridiculous, but something that is true about these portrayals is the deep psychological stuff that occurs in the back of your mind through play.

Fight or flight. Those instinctual, primal/animal like areas of your mind that govern responses to threats and general dangers that were extremely useful during our species evolutionary development as hunter gatherers, if a game is designed well enough it can take advantage of those responses and insert them into game-play loops which encourage positive reinforcement when taking down digital combatants... These are the things games tap into and the things military companies etc also tap into as part of training or recruitment programs especially in modern digital age armies where focus groups have to find new ways of getting young people interested in soldiering without conscription and a national crisis to absorb individuals into service positions. Anyone has the capacity to be violent and become a killer you need only the right training and psychological conditioning and in the army that is one part of basic. Popular video games and films provide you with that psychological training in a very subdued, consumer friendly fashion and that is through desensitisation. “Image training”

It is turned into a power fantasy, for military recruiters it is also an effective strategy for recruitment purposes.

“War is delightful to those who have not experienced it” Erasmus.

Violence in real life is brutal, random and horrifying even in a domestic sense to any sane or normal person with the capacity for human empathy (Though sometimes there are forms of desensitisation that override this), not even most soldiers who undergo psychological conditioning to be able to kill are immune to this trauma. Violence is not fair, violence is not graceful and more often than not it is also used irresponsibly in any situation where in it is absolutely necessary to be used, even then those situations are themselves questionable. Especially in present day conflicts waged overseas out of sight and mind of the general public for wealth, oil and resources.

I have experienced forms of domestic violence throughout my childhood such as being beaten by my parents and having animals ordered to attack me, I understand how awful it can be to live in absolute fear and experience excruciating pain and misery as a result of this so making a post like this I hope makes you think about this a bit more from that personal lens too.

Games and movies on their own dont cause violence that much is certain from studies no matter how vivid their depictions get, but they do desensitise you to its realities in strange and weird ways both mechanically, visually and also sometimes in the narrative. (Until we can someday reach the point where in we can perfectly simulate reality and violence there is no way in hell military companies are going to rely on it exclusively to train soldiers). But they can rely on the positive mental associations they bring to warfare.

HOW MASS EFFECT 2 PORTRAYS VIOLENCE.

MASS EFFECT is by no means a game that is used as a vessel to drive up real world military recruitment, there is no indication of official army endorsement since it is just a trilogy of science fiction video games after all. But it does include violence that tries its very best to make you the player think its wicked cool in addition to finding it fun if the game-play loop is effective enough. Which in ME2 it is especially effective and the marketing wanted to push that.

So how does MASS EFFECT 2 and to an extent MASS EFFECT 3 make its violence so fun and “Cool”... Ill break this down into a variety of factors starting with your enemies.

DEHUMANISATION OF COMBATANTS AND KNOWING YOUR ENEMY.

MASS EFFECT 2 takes players to the Terminus systems and other parts of the galaxy that do not fall under official council law, so naturally this means there is an seemingly over abundance of private military and mercenary organisations. But ME2 is not interested in what these things represent completely, more so it is interested in using their presence as a convenient means to provide the player with thousands of disposable henchman to shoot, stab, pull and blow up in a variety of fun and exciting ways!... (Those gamified ways) All the while giving you the excuse to not feel bad while doing so no matter how cruel you are in the application of your response to incoming fire.

In fact throughout the whole ME2 experience you probably kill more mercenaries comprised of Turians, Humans, Asari, Krogans, Vorcha and salarians, more so then you do the Reapers or Collectors who are supposed to be the primary antagonists of the series... Which it seems is pretty antithetical to the overall themes of uniting the galaxy to fight a common threat which threatens all life, perhaps you have already done the job for em in this regard. What you are seeing here is a form of precision engineered dehumanisation of combatants for purposes of providing a player with something to shoot and kill without much thought and sympathy... and the military also employs this tactic in real life to dehumanise other humans for soldiers to shoot and actually kill.

Make your enemies faceless, inhuman or “irredeemable” cannon fodder and the feelings you get for uncritically slaughtering them all are palpable, especially with such entertaining gameplay systems that make the whole endeavour that much more exciting. The same was true for Cerberus in ME3 effectively turning the whole organisation into faceless storm-troopers with filtered voices and intimidating armour again another form of enemy dehumanisation in addition they are all conveniently indoctrinated so thats another justification hooray!. More bad guys to shoot right?

You dont have to feel bad if there is nothing to feel bad about right? You are Commander Shepard! Or a soldier in the military you are right in all actions and decisions you make by virtue of the fact you fight for a cause like stopping the Reapers.

VIOLENCE AS AN ONLY MEANS TO A DESIRED END.

Despite MASS EFFECT’S status as an RPG experience, the games rarely if ever provide you with substantial opportunities to employ diplomatic solutions to various problems where in it would seem feasible that it can be at least attempted.

Most of the time you will be exhausting dialogue options on a screen and shooting faceless thugs behind chest high cover throughout the entire experience.

In the narratives themselves this refusal to resolve conflicts peacefully are actively supported by characters or hand waved as being frivolous by the plot and sometimes even Shepard himself. Kill or be killed rains supreme in again, But in real life that mindset is far from being realistic or preferable.

THE BADASS CHARACTER CLICHE.

Something that will severely age the MASS EFFECT 2 experience is its over reliance on making every single character a BADASS stereotype. Even beloved Mordin Solus falls victim to this strange fixation with violent attributes and histories being considered wicked cool bro! In combat Mordin will utter lines that hint to the fact that he very much enjoys the killing he is participating in.

“Killed that one!”

“Thought I was harmless did you?”

“Oooh headshot!”

“Here... Enjoy” (Plays during times he sets people on fire with his tech attacks)

He also lists at one disturbing point in the story, all the ways in which he has killed people. Which includes using lethal drugs and... farming equipment, thats funny right? Actually MASS EFFECT 2 seems to include a lot of moments like that in where people list off hilarious methods they have used to kill people.

Every character in one way or another has the capacity to kill and does kill, they kill quite a lot of people actually and in some cases this is celebrated with gleeful enthusiasm by the plot.

Even Shepard can participate in a little bit of casual BADASSERY no matter if you are renegade or paragon. Be that shooting through hostages, threatening Batarian thugs, shooting Konrad in the foot or generally acting like a ruthless prick all for the fun of it like when you trick a injured mercenary into thinking he is going to die from minor wounds. This is a stark contrast to ME1 which at least tried its best to codify violent or aggressive acts as morally questionable. You are the first Human spectre in that game after all a shining beacon to all humanity in the new frontiers of space, what you do in that story is emblematic of the attitudes the whole of humanity express going forward.

Jack is probably the most blatant example of this new approach to violence the series took for reasons I have already described in previous posts.

To be clear, I’m not saying MASS EFFECT 2'S inclusion of glorified fantasy violence is entirely a bad thing. I just think that if you are gonna include violence you best be a little more intelligent when it comes to its usage in mechanics and narrative. Because it can be a powerful thematic tool if used right, in some cases there are moments in ME2 wherein it does get used extremely well but those moments are also still few and far between.

We can do so much better.

[nyanzaya]

@if-that-so inquired: 💋💖💄👓🔫🔮🎤🎪🍸🍯🍰⛄⏳💐⚾🌊🌵🍒🐝💳👠👻💉🃏😊🙁 tbh i want to ask all... And also, there are some i already know but i just want to make sure 😘 

oc questions

💋 What traits do they like in other people? What traits do they not like?

Iza: The traits Iza likes in other people is intellect? He likes smart people, but he also doesn’t like smart people. He loves people who are a little gullible/inattentive because he would take advantage of it in small ways to get what he wants. Direct people are his favorite but also his bane because he hates to be put in the spotlight when they call things/point things out.

Zuo: Zuo likes when someone is laid back, fun and just a calming presence to be around. The traits he dislikes are: Deceptive, dishonest, indecisive and of course provoking in terms of trying to rile him up and get him angry

💖 Do they have a significant other? If so, who?

In their canon they were significant others; but things happened and now they are broken up even though under the sheets they still want to be together. You could say that they are still significant others but if they find anyone else to be with instead of each other then they let each other go. In a way you could say Zuo and Iza are still significant others with each other but as of right now they don’t have a significant other-- (and if i were to make this blog single ship I think I might make them significant others again but it would be like wild af)

💄 Do they care about their physical appearance? What’s their routine like?

Iza: He cares a lot about how he looks. From how his hair is style to the make up he has on. He wants to look the best and be the “best in show” Often, he is asleep during the day but whenever he does wake up he washes his face, fixes his hair to look well-kept and then he puts on eyeliner and depending, mascara. The eyeliner is always a cateye. He has a bunch more make up but he stays with the simple stuff because he feels that if you put too much you’re just ruining how you look, then he makes sure his nails are well-kept and manicured so if he’s not sleeping or working he will be tending to his nails

Zuo: He doesn’t care that much about how he looks? All he cares about is looking presentable and then going about his business. He doesn’t care for “looking the best” if anything he’d just want to look cool even if he doesn’t wear anything that’s flashy. Zuo does style his hair to hide his ears but sometimes they perk up from under his hair and it’s super cute

👓 Do they have any physical or mental disabilities?

Iza: I MEAN. He doesn’t have any physical disabilities but for mental-- like PTSD then yes lol. MMmh I guess hypersomnia because he is constantly and I mean cooonstantly sleeping even though it’s more like naps(like 16-24 hours at least) Anxiety and depression too.

Zuo: He doesn’t have any physical disabilities and for mental it’s almost the same as Iza’s except he doesn’t have hypersomnia. With what they both lived through, they would have these types of mental disorders but they ARE NOT diagnosed for it

🔫 What would they die for? Kill for?

Both of them would die to help their kin be free from servitude and they’d kill for it too. Iza already does kill for it, but Zuo tries not too. Though, unlike Iza, Zuo would kill and die for his significant other(whether it’s Iza or not), but Iza would kill for his significant other even if it means he kills them or someone else lmfao

🔮 Do they have any magical powers or abilities? If it’s a realistic world, what religion do they follow?

I think there has to be some magic because well, tbh the world is based around drrr and there’s supernatural creatures like faeries and demons so it wouldn’t surprise me if there was even a little bit of magic but, Iza and Zuo don’t have any magical powers or abilities. Iza isn’t exactly religious but the religion he follows is the religion of a cat god who was almost entirely erased from the world and sometimes when he refers to “God” he refers to her, but he does reference the christian God quite a bit and might have a bit of a god complex because he preaches for people to “Turn yourself into God and you won’t ever be killed.” Now ZUO WELL, I think he actually is religious but he is not a devote follower. I think he follows the same religion as Iza with the cat god but he isn’t a devote follower of Her, he prefers to keep religion and things like that to himself. Where Iza and Zuo differ between the religion is Iza says She is a vengeful and cruel god who wants to punish all who have hurt her children or kittens(As in her followers), while Zuo says she’s a benevolent God who wants to fix the things she had done wrong. Iza and Zuo don’t talk about religion to each other often because they could never agree.

🎤 Do they play any instruments?

Neither of them play instruments, unless you count singing as an instrument then Iza sings! Zuo would get frustrated with instruments but if he did play he would probably play drums

🎪 What would their favorite ride at an amusement park be?

Iza: The ferris wheel so he can look down on all the people because he loves to feel superior and better than them :sob:

Zuo: A big crazy roller coaster because he would love to feel the wind and the rush of adrenaline

🍸 How do they act when they’re drunk?

Iza: He’s honestly? Really emotional when he’s drunk? Lol like, he really easy to influence too and just the littlest things would make him burst into tears like LOL oh god if he saw something really cute he’d just “Oooh~ MY GODS-- That’s the cutest..i--eeeeoh my gooooood” Like Iza please...dont cry because of a really cute looking puppy or kitten lol

Zuo: I ACTUALLY HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF IT FOR ZUO BUT I THINK HE WOULD BE THE CALM FUNNY CUDDLE TYPE OF DRUNK.

🍯 Which era of history would they most like to live in?

Iza: I think he’d want to live in like, oh gosh probably the future tbh?

Zuo: He’d want to live in the era with kings and queens because he was a royal knight and he misses his king :(

🍰 What’s their favorite food?

Iza: He loves horse meat? I don’t know why

Zuo: I think Fugu because he isn’t afraid to get poisoned by a fish

⏳ How do they feel about death?

Iza: Iza finds death to be a beautiful thing? I don’t think he really...idolizes it... because in his head its “You’re not really dying, you are being transformed into something else.” which like, okay Iza. I mean I GUESS. and he says that you don’t ever actually die, you get reincarnated as something else to learn a new lesson

Zuo: For real Zuo doesn’t like death, hates death, and wishes it never existed because he can remember his past lives and how he died and what he hates most about it is: coming back and having to figure everything out again and finding Iza/his soulmate and convince them that “We are destined to be together, please, believe me you don’t remember but I do.” and YEAH HE GETS REALLY SAD ABOUT IT

💐 Do they collect anything? What’s their most prized possession?

Iza: Iza collects plush toys because he feels comforted whenever he has one. His prized possession has to be his collar because he got that from his first master? And he’s had it ever since? He wears it literally all the time, partly because one he kinda misses his first? And second to deter people from taking him

Zuo: I don’t think Zuo has ever collected anything? Not from what I can recall but his most prized possession has to be the glasses he wears because he got that from his mom because she didn’t want him to be unable to see just how colorful the world actually is (they are both colorblind)

⚾ Do they play any sports?

Iza: He doesn’t play any sports? But I mean if you count hunting small animals and occasionally people as a sport then yeah he does LOL

Zuo: He plays whatever sport he can, though his favorites are soccer and football, mostly football for really obvious reasons

🌊 What one place do they really want to visit and why?

Iza: France! Because he wants to visit Paris since he heard it’s the city of love

Zuo: Germany! He wants to see the castles and try the food

🌵 What languages do they speak?

Iza: English, German, Japanese

Zuo: English, French, Japanese

🍒 What are some items they always carry? What weapon do they favor using if they exist in a world where weapons are necessary?

Iza: He always has his pocket knife, but he’s very reluctant on using it because he would rather talk with words than get physical and fight(Unless it’s Zuo then he will fight Zuo), wallet, needles because he can hit puncture points really well when he’s fighting/hunting

Zuo: This white envelope that holds his catnip cigarettes that he rolls himself, his sunglasses and wallet

🐝 What stereotypical high school clique would they fit into?

Iza: He would fit in that…. Drifter or an Outsider clique? The one kid that goes around and comes off as a social butterfly but is just fine on their own and is also the one that ends up knowing literally everyone else's business while no one knows his.

Zuo: I think he would be a jock lmfao just, obvious reasons? To burn off steam and because he wants attention

💳 What one thing that they don’t need do they waste the most money on?

Iza: Oh gosh...he wastes money on a lot of things ...like he doesn’t need make-up but “Bitch I need my eye liner and blush.” and strawberry milk because “Shut up! I like it, I desire it, and I will have it.” and plush toys because “It makes me feel GOOD.” And designer knives because “I just think they are neat and I want it for my collection.” Like, someone stop him

Zuo: Hmm for Zuo? I don’t think he really spends his money-- but sometimes he’d impulsive buy weird things like slippers that look like bread? Or weird figurines lol it’s so hard to say accuse there’s a lot of weird things xD But if it looks interesting and funny he’d buy it, it dont even matter what it is

👠 What kind of shoes do they wear?

Iza: Iza has a lot of shoes he wears? Like he’ll wear heels(Like any type of heel) sometimes but most of the time I think he wears slip-ons, sneakers and slippers and if he’s dressed up he’d wear derby.

Zuo: He’s so easy and simply: Sneakers. Slip-ons, slippers  

👻 Do they believe in ghosts, aliens, and the occult in general?

For both of them, yes! I think Iza is kind of skeptical about it but Zuo insists aliens and ghosts are real. Iza is more into the occult than Zuo, like witchcraft and magic because he wants it to be real

💉 Which Deadly Sin do they most correspond to? Which Heavenly Virtue?

Iza: Lust for his sin and oh god… for a heavenly virtue uhm…. Hope or Fortitude

Zuo: Wrath for his sin and for his heavenly virtue it’s Justice or Temperance

🃏 If you had to choose one tarot card to represent them, what would it be?

Iza: Death because it represents major transformation and new beginnings, and transformation, passage, and change. Another one would be The Moon(symbolizes illusion and deception, and therefore often suggests a time when something is not as it appears to be. Perhaps a misunderstanding on your part, or a truth you cannot admit to yourself) and The Devil(symbolizes ambitions and is also synonymous with temptation, addiction, and depression)

Zuo: The World because it represents that things have come full circle, a journey has been completed, and a long-term project has come to an end. Another one for him would be The Sun(symbolizes positive energy, joy of living and enthusiasm) and The Hanged Man(symbolizes trial or meditation, selflessness, and sacrifice)

😊 What do they consider to be their best quality? What actually is their best quality?

Iza: He would say his best quality is his charm. His actual best quality is how tactful he can be, let alone romantic

Zuo: He would say his best quality is how brave he is. His actual best quality is how self-confident he is in himself

🙁 What do they consider to be their worst quality? What actually is their worst quality?

Iza: He would say his worst quality is how lazy/procrastinating he gets. His worst quality has to be how vainful and superficial he can actually be, let alone him using it to manipulate situations to get what he wants.

Zuo: He would say it’s his outbursts of anger, but actually his worst quality impulsive behavior because he just does it...he doesn’t think about it

[alittleoptimistic]

Favorite Character Tropes as Wish Fulfillment?

I wrote that title after I analyzed this stuff because I realized a thing about myself I was unaware of. I always get attached to the Same Character. Like, they are literally the same person in different stories. And I want to know why. So I did a little digging and thinking and all that good, good stuff. 

Here are a few examples of my typical favorite character

Charlie from Lost

Virgil from Sanders Sides

Philip from Travelers

the Doctor from Doctor Who (specifically 10)

Klaus from Umbrella Academy

Stiles from Teen Wolf

Riley from Sense 8

Cisco from Flash

Peter Pan from any version of this story

Jim from the Office

Peter from Heroes

Merlin from Merlin

Will from Hannibal

Felix from Orphan Black

Chuck from Chuck

Josh (the werewolf ) from Being Human

Jessica from Jessica Jones

Castiel from Supernatural

Loki from Marvel

Skylar from Heroes

Sherlock from Sherlock

Zuko from The Last Airbender

Killian from Once Upon a Time

I could probably find more but you get the idea

General similarities seem to be:

out of 23

21 are male?

15 have some type of addiction/problem they have difficulty controlling? (drugs, attention, adventure, eating people, killing people, ya know, etc)

17 have a secret

‘neuro-divergent’ in some way? (ADD, PTSD anxiety, depression, something? the kids are not alright)

All 23 have grey morals (probably chaotic good-ish? they all would break the rules for a good reason or get what they want)

19 have a crappy homelife/large tragedy in the past

20 have ‘superpowers/special ability’

18 are physically weak in appearance

18 are Underdogs, underestimated but actually powerful/very intelligent?

7 have a redemption arch

17 have dark hair lol

18 have a sarcastic, sense of humor

14 talk too much

mostly white in one form or another :/

So... why?? Why do I tend to like these characters more than others?

male. I am female and there are a few female characters that I LOVE. They happen, but, in all honesty, they are far and few in between. Wonder Woman, Jessica Jones, Hermione, Rey, Riley, Rory (Gilmore girls) Perhaps it is the way girls are often written? I like Jessica Jones because she is a hilarious mess and I relate. Same with... all of the ones I like, actually. They have that grey-moral vibe of real people, but lack the sexy Cat Woman, I’m-so-bad-I-can-kill-you-with-my-massive-butt-and-boobs?? Thing?? yeah? how unfortunate. They are small breasted or, at least, that is not drawn attention to too much. Could it be. holy moly, ya’ll. could it be I like women characters when they’re written... like people? like. like, as if girls are screwed up humans! not objects?? isn’t that incredible.

srry but not srry

an addiction. now, why do I tend to go here? Its a kind of a painful trope. They always go back, and back and back again to what we know is horrible for them. Perhaps there is enjoyment in watching the struggle and seeing them inevitably win their struggle, whatever it is? The strength to conquer the darkness within themselves and do the right thing. It might just make you think you can conquer your own battles?? Maybe I feel like I can relate in some sort of way, going back to old habits, struggling to be the person I want to be. Year after year of the same new year goals...

a secret. This is honestly just a nice trope and its neat, fun writing. Creates tension, and it is usually connected to the addiction. You get invested in this secret!!! It builds up to the inevitable discovery of that secret and the aftermath and all the reactions of their friends. (merlin, Will graham, chuck, etc.)

Neurodivergent. I think this is just me relating to these people. I have bouts of depression and anxiety and am currently researching the possibility of having ADD (thats a whole new weird thing idek) so this is just something that I think I see in myself.

Grey-morals. Again. This is my moral alignment, shocker. So, again, me relating to the characters. Also, characters that obviously have flaws are just well-written, well-rounded characters? No one is actually Clark Kent. characters that seem perfect either come off as plastic and fake because real people do not act like that, or they come off as kind of creepy?? because they must have some darkness lurking beneath the surface (when this is done on purpose, i actually like this quite a lot. Rose Quartz is an example of a character who seemed perfect on the surface, but as the show moved on, is revealed to be a Real Disaster Queen. she isn’t evil, just kind of a brat, but that redeemed what seemed to be sloppy storytelling because it was realistic)

Tragic past. This is just something that authors give to Disaster People to justify their screwed-up-ness. Course, not all of them had tragic pasts, but something bad happened to all of them (except Jim from the Office I think??, but then again, that is a sitcom...)

Special Ability Again, wish fulfillment. Not even gonna lie. I often feel powerless and out of control, this Freaks Me Out. I think there is comfort in seeing the ‘little guy’ (aka le me) having with a BAMF hashtag

 Weak And once more on Relatable-Station. This is in connection with relating to feeling and looking powerless, but finding comfort in the secret strength these characters have whether through supernatural means, superior intelligence, biting humor, a quick tongue, etc.

Underestimated the cap on this trio. The last 3 points could be summed up as one thing. A weak, underestimated person actually has some secret strength. These characters might just be a coping mechanism I have to deal with feeling weak and overlooked and powerless, whether or not those feelings accurately portray reality. I wonder where those feelings came from in the first place.

A redemption arch This trope is often a result of having grey morals. These also help deal with feelings of inadequacy or guilt in the reader?? It makes you think, if they can be loved, surely I can. (i am really dragging myself in this post, which was not the plan lol but here we are) 

Dark hair/brown hair. I have dark hair, I also wanted black hair as a child and found it very beautiful. Also, I think the dark hair goes with the personality trope as a Screw Up. Not gonna lie, messy brown/black hair on boys and girls, honestly, but the short messy thing, is great. and when they go evil for a bit and the hair gets Extra Messy?? That. That’s. Good. (for reference see: Stiles, Killian, Peter, Virgil, Loki)

Sarcastic my flavor of humor. this is turning into the realization that we do, in fact, like characters we relate to the most. I thought that might be far fetched because I’m ‘nothing like’ these characters, but let's get real. They’re me but as a cute boy or girl.

Talk too much This isn’t me. but This is who I want to be, I think. I’ve always struggled with anxiety about being the quiet one while my brother was so much better at talking, making friends, etc. so this is, again, wish fulfillment. i swear i didn’t think this was going to be this self-indulgent but i obviously was wrong

White They aren’t all white. Zuko is Asian. Cisco’s actor is Columbian American. But that’s... thats a really small amount of diversity. Like, I’m concerned. (when i say white btw, I don’t mean just American or British or whatever, because there are characters on here that are from all over. I just mean overall white-looking for the sake of this analysis) 

So, First Hypothesis: prejudice is very ingrained and even with good intentions, i could be subconsciously avoiding characters that are POC??? If this is all a ‘projecting myself’ thing, then I relate to white people the most? Im sure im screwing this up, but i’m not gonna chicken out and avoid this because thats what I’d usually do to keep from dumbly saying something offensive, but if I dont address a problem, then no one is getting anywhere 

Second Hypothesis: Its been known the fiction industry as a whole has a problem with representation,,, I don’t want to discount me being white, but I don’t think this is just me and my tiny entitled butt. There probably isn’t as much access to that type of character for POC. How often do creators have well-rounded, stick-around-for-a-long-time, flawed, funny, sometimes-problematic-but-well-meaning characters that are also POC? not often enough. Maybe it’s not always on purpose. But because of ‘Diversity Points’, character development might get pushed aside, and then the character’s personality becomes Their Race, which is... a crappy way to build a character? The industry has a hard enough time with diversity in general. Maybe people just don't write POC as that type of character. Which makes characters like Cisco unique. I’ve never even thought about that... Good on you, Flash writer crew.

let's fix this??

need more Ciscos???

 if any POC feels inclined to call me out on my bull or give their insight (only if you want to, of course), pls do.

In conclusion: this was interesting, and it makes sense, I guess, why people like different types of characters if their favorite characters are projections in one way or another of them. I’m not saying that we all relate to our favorite characters, but me, because I have this weird, dozen or more of the same type of character that I love, it might be reasonable to assume there’s something about that character I see in myself or wish I saw in myself? Anyway, an interesting thought. What do you guys think? Do you see yourself in your favorite characters?

This has been an honest essay that got too long. I wish I was as invested in writing school essays as I am in Tumblr posts.

[frigfridge]

just finished rewatching toy story 1 thru 3 over the past few days, wanted to share my thoughts:

i love these movies a whole lot. the first 2 hold a bunch of nostalgia for me because i was A Baby when 2 came out and when i was also A Baby i would just watch our VHS copy of toy story 1 over and over again. this also makes me the exact age group to be emotionally destroyed by toy story 3, which came out just as i was entering high school and hit really close to home

individual thoughts:

toy story: the first thing i noticed was it still looks really nice even watching in 2019!! which i think is kind of spectacular for the first feature-length computer-animated film. it no doubt helps that the plot is mostly focused on little plastic dolls without realistic hair or clothing to animate but the semi-”cartoon” art direction means the human characters also look pretty nice without going too far into the uncanny valley.

also, the plot is WAY darker than i remember?? not because of sid and all the body horror toys, but because for like half of the movie woodys friends think hes an actual (toy) murderer carrying around the severed arm of his victim (!!) like, its hilarious, but also wow theres a LONG way to go between there and the climax of toy story 3.

the soundtrack is probably my favorite of the bunch. part of that is probably nostalgia but i just really like the consistency of having randy newman singing every song. it sort of elevates him to part of the story, like an omniscient narrator singing woodys (and later buzzs) inner monologue. 2 (and especially 3) didnt have as many musical numbers, which i can understand with a shift to a larger-scale approach to storytelling, but i really like the feeling it gives number 1. “you got a friend in me” is an obvious classic thats been remixed and brought back in just about every piece of toy story media im aware of, but ���strange things” and “i will go sailing no more” deserve just as much recognition and praise. there just isnt a weak number among them

toy story 2: heres where the story started getting bigger and more existential, which basically becomes the new direction of the series. which makes sense! this one released 4 years after the first, and while theres no real timeskip in the story (maybe 6 months?) it had been a little while since we last saw woody and the gang. everybody in the real world had gotten older, and with the turn of the millennium approaching, the theme of impermanence loomed large in the collective unconscious. well, maybe not in my unconscious, because i was 2. but its really interesting as kind of a “time capsule” to what people were thinking about as the 90s came to a close.

so toy story 2 was a little more grounded, a little more focus on the human world, but it was also more fantastical in its presentation. the opening “video game” sequence (which still looks amazing!!) and woodys nightmare (”i dont wanna play with you anymore...”) show the animators at pixar really found their groove and started getting experimental. and to great result!! the fantasy sequences are a lot of fun and help 2 really stand out.

i would be remiss not to mention jessies flashback song here. its something else they hadnt really done in the first film and i think it really works. jessie in this film unfortunately doesnt get to do much other than fight with woody about whether he should stay or go (except for when she saves him in the end) but this song makes her character work. it also helps that it destroys me every time

also i think this is the movie that gave me an appreciation for the acting of kelsey grammer. i dont really agree with his politics (i also dont know specifically what they are) but he is a damn fine actor and gives the prospector a very genuinely intimidating edge after his heel turn. the casting really makes the character here, but thats nothing new for toy story-- every voice works. if i were the casting director, i probably wouldnt have pulled erudite kelsey grammer for a character named “stinky pete,” but as it is now i couldnt imagine him voiced by anyone else.

the last thing about toy story 2 is it feels like there were a lot more pop culture references? at least as far as i noticed. there are apparently even more than i noticed but i caught on to the “also sprach zarathustra” riff in the opening, and the jurassic park rearview mirror gag. and of course the extended star wars reference with zurg vs. utility belt buzz (and i guess zurg in general.) the references are cute and mostly unobtrusive but really i could take or leave them.

oh yeah also al is hilarious. just this rude, neurotic businessman whos incredibly self-important for the owner of a minor(?) toy store chain. hes such a puffed-up jerk, every time hes on-screen is a delight

toy story 3: this one kills me to death. i always get misty-eyed during “when somebody loved me” but the ending of 3 where andy introduces his toys to bonnie and plays with them one last time made me sob the first time i watched it. and it still does! thats the long game right there, thats the payoff of over 10 years loving these characters. its an emotional ketchup bomb, everything gets all messy and soggy and sweet. hopefully 4 can follow up, but im not really worried about that-- ive heard some good things. damn, its been 9 years since this movie came out, though! it really doesnt feel all that long, but i guess i havent been doing all that much

i actually dont know if i have much else to say about 3. the opening with the re-imagining of the previous films openings (woody versus one-eyed bart, buzz and woody vs. the evil dr. porkchop) is a highlight, although theres a conspicuous lack of bo peep. ive heard she has a big part in 4, but it was kind of weird to see a lot of toys missing and their absence (mostly) glossed over after the first few minutes. i miss r.c. and lenny, but i get they wanted to narrow down the cast so all of them could get in on the plot.

speaking of which, the escape scene is great too. its kind of a crystallizing moment of how close these characters are, and how well they work together. it reminds me a lot of the escape from sids house in the first movie, but there woody was working with sids body-horror toys and seemed to strike up a rapport with them bizarrely quickly. (speaking of which, i miss those toys! their designs were super cool, but i cant imagine they got much merchandise, especially babyface with the sharp, metal spider legs.) here, though, woody and the gang cooperate the best they ever have, and it really paints a picture of how close theyve become over the years, and justifies the emotional climax in the landfill. this is what i was talking about when i said i was surprised how dark toy story 1 got! these toys all hated woodys guts back then for what they thought he did to buzz. they kicked him out of a moving truck! its just weird to think about that conflict between them when you know how long they end up sticking together. but thats, like, neat, so its ok. it feels earned, its just kind of crazy in hindsight.

toy story 3 was also obviously made long after the first two-- by comparison, the lighting is way more sophisticated, the humans are a lot more detailed. theres just a lot more detail In General. the main cast is, like, super dirty for the middle 90% of the film, and it feels like, yeah, We Have This Technology Now. we can render so many individual glitter sprinkles suck to hamms ass and they will be in every single scene. the “fur tech” on lotso and buster is also an obvious clue, especially in the flashback to lotso trudging through the rain back to his owners house. its like “look! we can make this teddy bear SO wet!” and wow! yeah! you did! so wet!

lotso himself is also an interesting villain in terms of sheer bastardness. he is just a huge jerk. he could have hit that button so easily! and he was so mean to the baby! but at the same time hes a great character in how he slowly “changes” throughout the movie. he is kind of an obvious “pixar ‘twist’ villain” but again, the amazing performance by ned beatty really saves him. also he does get a nice comeuppance at the end, which was necessary because hes really the biggest villain in the series so far. hes knowingly malicious and doesnt have any greater motive, hes just an embittered megalomaniac who (apparently) has sent other toys to be broken, thrown away, and incinerated at the landfill. he honestly deserves worse than being strapped to the front of a truck but it works for a family movie.

i have a couple more thoughts on 3 (i guess i did have a fair amount of stuff to say about it) but im getting tired of writing. the music is good as usual, but the vocal stuff being entirely back-loaded (in the credits) is a bit disappointing since ive always been a fan of the songs, but i get that they were going for something different. the jokes about ken being, uh, ‘flamboyant’ felt out of place, mostly the one at the end (”uh, buzz? barbie didnt write this”) because it comes from one of the gang and not unnamed lotso goon #3, but i guess its pretty tame in the scheme of things.

overall im really looking forward to seeing what 4 does with the series. whew!

[crafiet]

1-50 OC questionnaire !!

ill use ary

1. What’s their full name? Why was that chosen? Does it mean anything?anyone else paranoid about people stealing their unpublished work or ideas or name bc me. her name is ary and i found it from a generator [lmao so original] and i thought it was cute. her last name is like pretty standard for fantasy and it inspired me to have everyone elses last names in a similar vibe2. Do they have any titles? How did they get them?WELL lmao shes had a lot. prisoner #22876, the wraith, princess ary. ive scrapped all except the prisoner one and u can guess how she got it3. Did they have a good childhood? What are fond memories they have of it? What’s a bad memory? she was raised among royals and nobles so she has a lot of good memories with her parents and other kids her age running around doing dumb shit. most of her bad memories happen once she becomes a teenager4. What is their relationship with their parents? What’s a good and bad memory with them? Did they know both parents? she has an overwhelming love for her parents, she idolizes them heavily and is grateful for how much they taught her. a good memory is probably them teaching her how to use magic for the first time and she being unable to control it and almost burning her eyebrows off lmao5. Do they have any siblings? What’s their names? What is their relationship with them? Has their relationship changed since they were kids to adults?no siblings6. What were they like at school? Did they enjoy it? Did they finish? What level of higher education did they reach? What subjects did they enjoy? Which did they hate?tbh i havent thought much about their education system as young kids, since its not really relevant and i dont tend to worldbuild stuff that never shows up. however she did attend an academy specifically for her magic caste and she had a fun time up until some shit went down and she deserted. shes pretty competitive and liked versing her friends7. Did they have lots of friends as a child? Did they keep any of their childhood friends into adulthood? she was one of those weird kids who preferred hanging out with her parents over everybody else. so she had one good friend in the academy whos still her friend today, but otherwise she would race home and annoy her mum lol8. Did they have pets as a child? Do they have pets as an adult? Do they like animals? no pets. she has a soft spot for horses though, because she has had so many in her “career”9. Do animals like them? Do they get on well with animals? horses like her, i guess they can sense shes good with them. at one point in the novel she sees some jackals and is afraid of them so shes probably not a dog person10. Do they like children? Do children like them? Do they have or want any children? What would they be like as a parent? Or as a godparent/babysitter/ect?she doesnt have anything against kids, but shes not very good with them, shes never been one for baby talk or dumbing herself down. in one draft she takes care of some adolescents and lets cyri take over bc he loves kids lol11. Do they have any special diet requirements? Are they a vegetarian? Vegan? Have any allergies?nahh12. What is their favourite food? uhhhhhhhhhhhhh13. What is their least favourite food?uhHHHHHH14. Do they have any specific memories of food/a restaurant/meal?man idk, its not like my characters arent well rounded realistic people but im not gonna know her favourite fucking colour bc it doesnt matter in the story lmao15. Are they good at cooking? Do they enjoy it? What do others think of their cooking?i would say shes ok, she doesnt burn anything but shes not a gourmet chef [despite having lessons as a child]16. Do they collect anything? What do they do with it? Where do they keep it? ohh i used to have an answer for this but she probably doesnt now just bc shes pretty nomadic and usually only has the clothes on her back lmao17. Do they like to take photos? What do they like to take photos of? Selfies? What do they do with their photos?cameras dont exist in her world my dudee. but if she lived in modern day which ive thought of, shed be the type to take a bunch of pics of her friends and stuff she likes bc she likes having the memory in a solid form, her actual memory is shit lol18. What’s their favourite genre of: books, music, tv shows, films, video games and anything elsehmm i suppose shed be a horror fan, and shed love making fun of stupid characters19. What’s their least favourite genres?man idk. romance? shes kinda #2edgy4me20. Do they like musicals? Music in general? What do they do when they’re favourite song comes?hmm i think shes more a soft music fan, just something idly playing in the background. ex. a bard playing something for the crowd while she kicks back w friends21. Do they have a temper? Are they patient? What are they like when they do lose their temper?she has a short temper. shes easily triggered with any emotion so shes quick to argue or whatever22. What are their favourite insults to use? What do they insult people for? Or do they prefer to bitch behind someone’s back?id like to think shes witty, and she always says stuff to peoples faces bc a bitch has rabies and wants to fight apparently23. Do they have a good memory? Short term or long term? Are they good with names? Or faces?bad memory, shes gone through physical torture and isolation [wew] so. shes better at names, growing up with royals she got to learn a bunch of family names etc24. What is their sleeping pattern like? Do they snore? What do they like to sleep on? A soft or hard mattress?a light sleeper. crazy light. and she can sleep anywhere, so she has no problems sleeping on the ground unlike others25. What do they find funny? Do they have a good sense of humour? Are they funny themselves?she pretends to be stoic but when u get to know her her humour’s pretty lame, shell laugh at anything if just to make u feel better26. How do they act when they’re happy? Do they sing? Dance? Hum? Or do they hide their emotions? she tends to hide them under an indifferent mask27. What makes them sad? Do they cry regularly? Do they cry openly or hide it? What are they like they are sad?despite being able to hide her emotions, she does succumb to fear a lot and cries openly, but will continue to do whatever shes doing through tears so shes scary in that regard28. What is their biggest fear? What in general scares them? How do they act when they’re scared?abandonment is a huge one. shes not a fan of predatory animals. shes brave though, and will do whatevers necessary, kinda like unwilling exposure therapy lol29. What do they do when they find out someone else’s fear? Do they tease them? Or get very over protective? she doesnt like exploiting people so shell never use someones fear against them. for friends, shell protect them and warn them if something like that is gonna happen30. Do they exercise? Regularly? Or only when forced? What do they act like pre-work out and post-work out?lmao she walks or goes horse riding everywhere and is severely malnourished31. Do they drink? What are they like drunk? What are they like hungover? How do they act when other people are drunk or hungover? Kind or teasing?i just wrote a scene like this!! shes louder in general, laughs more. her guard comes down more and more with every drink. she can hold her liquor pretty well but when shes blacked out shes pretty much useless32. What do they dress like? What sorta shops do they buy clothes from? Do they wear the fashion that they like? What do they wear to sleep? Do they wear makeup? What’s their hair like?she prefers comfort and mobility over everything else. she tends to dress pretty masculine, and never does anything with her hair. does she know what a brush is?33. What underwear do they wear? Boxers or briefs? Lacey? Comfy granny panties?...................ask her lol idk. probably just basic comfy ones34. What is their body type? How tall are they? Do they like their body?she is 5′9. when shes healthy, she has a willowy figure but more on the boxy side than curvy. she doesnt really attribute much to her body [imagine living life without dysmorphia mfg]35. What’s their guilty pleasure? What is their totally unguilty pleasure? i dont she counts anything as a ‘guilty’ pleasure. she just enjoys what she enjoys, fuck whatever people think36. What are they good at? What hobbies do they like? Can they sing?she loves fishing! she used to do it a lot with her dad. i dont think shes a particularly good singer37. Do they like to read? Are they a fast or slow reader? Do they like poetry? Fictional or non fiction?yeah she likes reading. she reads pretty fast and prefers nonfiction. she thinks poetry can get too pretentious lmao38. What do they admire in others? What talents do they wish they had?#deep but i think she admires kindness and care in others. she wishes she was a better person at times and wants to be able to express how much people meant to her39. Do they like letters? Or prefer emails/messaging? lmao letters are the only thing in her world. if she lived w us shed probably be all about texting 600 in a row and then calling when u dont reply “what do u mean you cant answer. its called INSTANT messaging for a reason!!”40. Do they like energy drinks? Coffee? Sugary food? Or can they naturally stay awake and alert?she stays awake through sheer willpower shes a beast41. What’s their sexuality? What do they find attractive? Physically and mentally? What do they like/need in a relationship?shes bi/pan. not really a thing about labels in her world. she loves long hair and soft personalities42. What are their goals? What would they sacrifice anything for? What is their secret ambition?plot spoilers!!43. Are they religious? What do they think of religion? What do they think of religious people? What do they think of non religious people?shes not religious. there is a heavy theme of religion in the novel [which i need to write better in the second draft] but she was kinda skeptical as a child and probably lost faith entirely after she went through some harrowing stuff 44. What is their favourite season? Type of weather? Are they good in the cold or the heat? What weather do they complain in the most? winter. she prefers the cold and hates heat45. How do other people see them? Is it similar to how they see themselves? i think people see her as scarier than she is. shes a formidable opponent and does not give a fuck what you say, but her reputation precedes her a little bit, a lot of things she did out of fear or force are seen as ‘badass’ and ‘brave’46. Do they make a good first impression? Does their first impression reflect them accurately? How do they introduce themselves?shes a compulsive liar, and a good one at that. so she tends to show herself differently to almost everyone she meets, but usually its a false potrayal47. How do they act in a formal occasion? What do they think of black tie wear? Do they enjoy fancy parties and love to chit chat or loathe the whole event?ugh she haaaaaates formal stuff and parties. she grew up royal and had to suffer through many a dinner and gathering. at this point in her life youd never get her in a dress that impeded her movement. shes ok with dresses but really big poofy ones she refuses to wear48. Do they enjoy any parties? If so what kind? Do they organise the party or just turn up? How do they act? What if they didn’t want to go but were dragged along by a friend? in our world shed be one for a chill house party. show up with a case of beer, sit outside by the barbie, listen to music and talk shit. shes not good at organising so she doesnt tend to host, and if she were dragged by a friend itd probably be to a formal event or with people she didnt know so shed just sulk in the corner49. What is their most valued object? Are they sentimental? Is there something they have to take everywhere with them?she abandoned her material possessions before the story a. bc she was forced and b. they bring back way too many painful memories50. If they could only take one bag of stuff somewhere with them: what would they pack? What do they consider their essentials? food, change of clothes, weapons. thats about it. she tries not to be super nasty and find an inn to shower and stuff but shes also poor af

[ceciliatan]

Writing the Other: Conflict and Inclusion Panel Discussion Recap from #ICFA40

Writing the Other: Conflict and Inclusion ICFA 40 Panel with JR Richard, Keffy Kehrli, Usman Malik, K. Tempest Bradford, Nisi Shawl

This panel did not have a description in the online schedule, but I marked it of obvious interest to me! What follows in this post is my attempt to capture what was said. I believe I caught about 60% of the remarks, so this is not all of it, and sometimes I may have mis-typed, mis-heard, or misunderstood what was said, so please do not take these as direct quotes. They may be paraphrased. Please check with the individuals here before you quote them based on this pseudo-transcript.

The panel began with the panelists introducing themselves:

Nisi Shawl: I am a writer and editor, and increasingly this year a teacher! And I coauthored a book called Writing the Other with Cynthia Ward. I teach classes on Writing the Other with this woman to my right…

K. Tempest Bradford: I am a sf/f author and I’ve been co-teaching for Writing the Other workshops, and I admin the classes we don’t teach ourselves. We’ve been doing this for 4-5 years and it’s my fault Nisi is teaching more classes!

Usman Malik: I am a writer of sf/f, subspecializing in horror.

Keffy Kehrli: I am a sf/f writer and I only have shorts stories out. And I edit Glittership, an LGBTQ magazine We dont restrict to LGBTQ authors, so I get a lot of people “writing the other.” I’m also getting PhD in genetics so if I space out I’m probably thining about genes.

JR Richard: I’m a sf/f writer and playwright and I teach creative writing, playwriting, design, and slam poetry to school age children.

Nisi: The first thing I wanted to ask the panel for are some examples of inclusion and conflict in writing the other.

JR: I think that for me, it’s about educating ourselves: as someone with privilege and someone not with privilege—I am female and queer and I go by she/they, but I’m white. And in a previous panel someone said writers go “oh, I have awoken! so now I have learned and it’s done!” And that’s not how it works…? You are always evolving and learning. I have learned what is my lane and what is not my lane. I have learned when people are faking it. I am also Jewish and just read a musical that was written by people who aren’t Jewish and they got what a mitzvah is wrong. Being wrong can be hard for those with privilege. Conflict is hard for people with privilege to accept. When they say “I don’t even see color, I don’t care if people are pink and blue…” they are skirting a conflict that makes them uncomfortable.

Nisi: But do you have some examples?

Keffy: Specific works to cite… I’m trying to think. I tend to forget things that really piss me off. So I have trouble citing examples. There are two things I see a lot when it comes to conflict and inclusion. If you’ve read a lot of sf/f—especially older stuff even beyond just Tolkien—a lot of the models you get for conflict in fantasy works tend be to problematic. They tend to include the other as the enemy. So if you base inclusion on how you read it as a kid, it may be problematic to start with. Tolkien is a great example of how not to do it. The second thing is if you have come up with a villain and you realize you have a very white, straight story, and now you decide oh, I’m going to make this character black, you will possibly run into a very serious stereotype without having realized it. If you put in a queer character without considering how the intersection of that identity with stereotypes you will run right into a problem with them. I see it in submissions where someone decided to make a character queer without seeing how it impacts the story.

Usman: My thought process over the last few years has been A) when I write a story I don’t write the other, I write ME. But you need people who have lived that role. If they write that story, they write about their own experience. That is your cement block for me. We need representation in every sector you can think of, every art. B) Great writers or anyone worth their salt are trying to be authentic. Authenticity is the heart of all good art. It doesn’t matter if you need to know intersectionalism — it’s great if you do, but you don’t need to know any of that if you are working with authenticity and honesty. I have a story set in inner Lahore, Pakistan. I have lived in Lahore, Pakistan, but not in inner Lahore where my parents had lived. So I went back home and visited people there and then I wrote that story. Those are my people and I still felt I had to go and study them. In the Internet, in what I call the Troll World, the ones who are complaining are inauthentic to what they are doing. They are bad writers. That’s how I think about it.

Tempest: There are a lot of conversations about authenticity but also Own Voices writing, people writing within their own identity category. They are from the identity and they are writing that identity. But there becomes a conflict in which their authenticity is challenged by people whose idea of that identity comes from inauthentic things! (laughter) Kate Elliot gave a really great lecture on this about a review of Ken Liu’s book Grace of Kings. This one reviewer was like “when I set out to read this, I thought I would find an authentic experience of Asian culture, like what I saw in a movie I saw one time.” (audience groans) They have this view of what is “authentic” which is often a stereotypical or really offensive view, and if you do anything else, the audience is very against it. This also causes a problem with people who are trying to write the other and have actually learned the lesson and are doing it well. Say they write outside of their racial cultural whatever, and it’s very nuanced and layered and great, and they send it to an agent or editor. They get told “but you’re white, so you can’t write about Native Americans or black characters” or whatever. Or the editor will say this is not realistic because the black people are not in a gang. The Native Americans are not alcoholics. You didn’t write those stereotypes, but because it’s not what they expect they think it’s wrong. So the conflict comes when what do you do when your editor tells you something like that? We tell them: don’t let them make you put racist nonsense into your book. You may need to call an expert in the subject who has some clout. This happens a lot.

Nisi: I think, Usman, you do write the other when you write someone from a different economic class. You also wrote about orphans. Those are not you. But I take your point about your representation of the other. Recent someone was telling me how “diverse” the cast was from Crazy Rich Asians and I was like: it’s not diverse at all!

Tempest: They’re all Asian! Using the word “diverse” to mean “not white” is every problematic.

Nisi: Who is writing what and who’s including whom—in their anthologies and their publishing stables—those are questions we’re asking.

Keffy: I can say for Glittership I try to be as inclusive as I can, but it’s always a caveat because you can’t be perfectly inclusive. Because there are a limited number of stories, but there are an unlimited number of intersections. Usman gave a perfect example. It’s OwnVoices because it’s Pakistani but it’s not OwnVoices because it’s not inner Lahore. I have one benefit over anthology editors in that Glittership is ongoing, whereas an anthology is out. If you fucked up and put no women in it you’re stuck with it. Inclusion is a process. I’m always trying to reach out to people I don’t have represented. Sometimes though they send me something that I just don’t like. I try to write the nicest rejection letter I can so that they’ll send me more. One of my problems is that some of the groups I don’t have enough fiction from is that I don’t have enough authors sending them to me. Part of it is that there’s a perspective that LGBTQ fiction is very white and that you can have all the types of queers as long as they’re white. I have to be very specific I want more writers of color.

Nisi: But can you clarify? The authors you reach out to are …?

Keffy: I don’t publish any fiction that isn’t queer. There are many authors who I would love to have, but they haven’t written anything fitting for my magazine. I will literally just email people and say “yo, send me stories.” It’s so easy for poeple to get into the idea that if they don’t see a story from people like them, then they think they shouldn’t send theirs either. Sometimes as an author you don’t want to try. No one wants to get the rejection that is like “well, but none of them are drug dealers.” That’s rejection and getting stabbed in the heart. It’s on ongoing process. I go through Fiyah Lit Mag and email all their contributors “Hey got ay queer stuff?”

Tempest: I really feel like in sf/f we have a giant problem where there are not enough editors who are not white cis men. This is especially a problem in anthologies. Most of the major year’s bests are compiled by white cisgender men. The exceptions are like Ellen Datlow, which is great, she’s there because of her seniority, but sometimes there’s not a lot of new people being brought into that. Every time I hear about a new years best it’s edited by John Q Whitefellow. When it comes to talking about stuff like World Fantasy and them not inviting and black people or women to be guests of honor for example. They just invite NK Jemisin and if she says no, they just go back to John Q Whiteguy. They say there aren’t enough others around. (They’re wrong.)

Nisi: When I edited an anthology, Nalo Hopkinson was asked to do it first. And she said no, you should ask Nisi instead. One thing we can do is keep pushing off the requests to someone else you know. I have edited three anthologies now and helped edit a few others. I make a spreadsheet and I track where are things coming from, what races are they, are they bi or queer or cis, et cetera. I don’t go for a quota but I am very conscious with trackable data about who I am getting.

Tempest: It’s good we have some editors who make an effort to understand things outside their understanding. I think Neil Clarke and John Joseph Adams do a good job with that. JJA does a good job because as the SERIES editor for a year’s best he brings in annual editors who are from more diverse points of view. He’s had Charles Yu and NK Jemisin. And then that influence rolls on.

Keffy: I do see a definite impact of my identity on my submissions. I see many more trans and nonbinary stories and authors than I did at Shimmer magazine. There I saw many women who were driven by the female editors there. As a transman I know that is impacting who feels comfortable submitting to me. But so is the fact I’m white. People want to hope they’re sending to a warm, welcoming place for them.

JR: The situation in my hometown in the theater community is very segregated. Nebraska has about a million people and it’s ridiculously segregated. There was busing when I was in school. I produced a show called Woman in Omaha. The show had women each given 5 minutes to do a thing under a pink tent. I told them I went to Omaha Central High School and I haven’t done anything at The Union, which is in the middle of the black area of town. Me and my husband were the only two white actors they had that season. I asked my friend Beau if she would co-produce with me. Most of the theaters in town will completely whitewash a cast. The white producers keep saying [non-white] people don’t show up to auditions. But it’s because they think they won’t be welcome in that space. Denise Chapman tells a story that a guy came in to audition with his dreads inside a hat like he was trying to hide it. She told him, look be yourself, and he just began to glow once he could be himself. I think A Woman in Omaha was really great and a moment of intersectionality. Anoterh example, we were doing Bubbly Black Girl Sheds Her Chameleon Skin; it is all about being a black woman in musical theater. And in the Q & A after this white woman in the back stood up and said “well, but why aren’t all of you auditioning at the Playhouse?” It’s because the Playhouse’s idea of being inclusive or adding diversity is to do The Color Purple and Raisin in the Sun.

Nisi: Which is like 60 years old. Let’s talk about is conflict inherent in inclusion? Does inclusion automatically mean exclusion?

JR: I hope inclusion doesn’t mean exclusion! I think it means I can walk into a room with people of diferent faiths but all have a respect from what each of us are doing. Discomfort in inclusion, when you have grown up as white as the default in Omaha, Nebraska, it can be uncomfortable to step out of that and realize white is NOT the default and then be scared to mess up and not be inclusive. If you’re not uncomfortable in a situation either you are not pushing yourself enough or you are comfortable in your little box.

Keffy: I think conflict is inherent in inclusion but it’s also just as much in exclusion. Conflict that has been externalized I brought inside and you have to deal with it. I think that’s where a lot of the discomfort comes from. It’s not about whether black actors get in the door, it’s about whether they’re being treated correctly once they’re inside. That’s part of it. It’s a reframing of the conflict that already exists. I don’t think inclusion automatically means exclusion, but sometimes inclusion just moves the exclusion line elsewhere. Like with the expanding acronym of LGBTQ etc where do you cut off the letters? Who is left off when the bus leaves the stop? I try to be aware of that. Being a queer magazine there are people who don’t think they’re being excluded.

Usman: Exclusion versus inclusion — usually exclusion is a variant of colonization. If someone is doing that, the end result is always supremacy of some sort. Whether it happens by set mechanisms or systemic change, conflict is going to happen. The other thing is you know we were talking about editors and submission before. ICFA and the sf/f world is very different from the MFA world and the horror world. A horror antho came out by a well-known, big-time writer and I was reading the TOC. Out of 27 stories, one was by a woman. That editor is a friend of mine. I brought it up, and he came on my page and got mad. I don’t think people are deliberately being evil. But people are too arrogant to admit that things should change. There is a lack of humility on the people who are perpetuating the system. Even in the LGBTQ community there can be that arrogance. Another thing when you are a 16 or 20 year old brown kid sitting out there, they don’t know what we’re talking about. This is a very European and North-American centric discussion. We are already excluding 90 percent of the world.

Tempest: Then people who are rarely excluded claim that inclusion makes them excluded. Like if there is a “slot” for a woman in an anthology they feel that slot might have been taken away from them. I had a conversation with a co-worker that every country has one representative in the U.N. He felt America should have a bigger say. But why? Why should that bother him? I was like: what are you talking about. Of course it should be one each. But he was thinking America is the best, we deserve more etc because that’s what he’s been taught. So in his mind automatically America should get more seats in the UN. But in anthologies they’ll say yeah these are the “best” even if they haven’t made any effort to reach out to other cultural contexts. They’ll say “You can’t ‘exclude’ these (white authors) because that’s exclusion!” There’s a weird sense of fairness to these people. When I did the reading challenge. This one guy was like “oh you’re right I’ve only read one women in five years!” But when I suggested he read only women for a year he was like “But that wouldn’t be fair!” like that was going “too far.” As if one year versus five would swing the balance too far toward women even though he just admitted that only reading one woman in five years was too little.

Nisi: I was doing a reading at a place in New Orleans through a college there. We went to a home in a neighborhood. Outside black kids were playing with their bicycles and baseballs and the organizers told me I want those kids to come to this reading because I don’t want them to think this isn’t for them.

Keffy: Many things have been improved by the Internet. In the days of postal submissions I would not get stories from Nigeria. So there is more outreach than there was. But I run into the problem that there are countries where if an author sent me a story they could be putting their life in danger. The Brazilian elections recently, they elected an extremely anti-queer president. He’s Super-Trump. But right after that, I went through my submissions and I had submissions from Brazil. There are people who are going that far to get their message out. Most of the people of color who send me things are part of a diaspora in some way, and rarely from the indigenous countries. It’s hard to reach out.

Usman: I think the organizations are very smug. SFWA and the others, they feel they are doing a lot of outreach. They don’t get a lot of funding. Arts have lost their funding. But we have Codex and SFWA and ICFA, but how connected are we with the rest of the world? When is World Fantasy going to be “World” Fantasy? It’s taken ten years for the most briliant writer in India to get a reprint into Nightmare magazine. The way we know about Vandana Singh and Maryanne Mohanraj is because we’ve MET them. They’ve been at the cons. What about all the out of the country writers?

Nisi: Yeah. A lot of the people I know are from Clarion West.

Tempest: But that’s where the whole rolling down the hill thing happens. You open the door a little wider each time. But for people outside the US it’s a different trajectory. The staff on the Writing Excuses cruise give a scholarship for writers of color. It’s a networking opportunity. We have all these people now in our network. Con or Bust is another organization that was started because of POC being economically disadvantaged.

Nisi: I tried to talk about this in an essay I wrote called “Unqualified.” One way you are made to feel unwelcome is by a high economic bar. Lowering that bar proves you are welcome. One who is really reaching out is Neil Clarke who is reaching out to people of different nations. About the cascading effect of when you open opportunities to clueful allies, if you open up to people of color, then again we can further that. Alex Jennings, Ghita, all of these are people stamped with the approval of science fiction credibility, and they can now open the road further for other people.

JR: I also want to talk about elitism here in the US that I see a lot of with my students. I run a playwriting workshop in a special ed program. Often they have never had a creative writing class of any kind, ever. I also work in low income public schools. A lot of the time there are refugees or kids in low income families and there is such a gatekeeping. You have to have a cover page. You have to use Times new roman font. Etc. Stories are rejected for these gatekeeping reasons. I have one refugee kid from out of the country and he had written a beautiful story. He had written it on his phone. We had to figure out how to get it off his phone. We had to figure out how to get it out of there and reformat it and all these things (and then it wasn’t even accepted). I went to an MFA program but not everyone can do that.

Nisi: Not everyone can take 6 weeks out of their lives for Clarion even if they get a scholarship.

Keffy: There are such problems with so-called standard manuscript format. I don’t really care. I get things in all kinds of fonts. It’s in Word. I just change it. There is no standard anymore. With postal submissions there was a high barrier to entry. But do any two magazines have the same format now? I had to copy my whole story into a notepad file to submit it in plain text into on magazine’s submission form… I decided never to do it again. Some of it is just… ugh. The thing is, I didn’t know anything about any of this until I started going to conventions. I would go to panels of editors, some of whom will remain nameless, but they would go on these tears about the (sarcasm) horrible things writers did like using the wrong font and how can anyone take that writer seriously? I have anxiety disorder so I was so worried I didn’t get absolutely everything right. I was afraid I didn’t speak the right lingo. So I am trying to make my submission handle-able for me and my co-editor. We have a submission form to make it doable for us, but it’s important when you are curating anything which things are really barriers to entry.

Tempest: What information someone has access to so often gets brushes aside. Someone types something into the Internet and they don’t know where they land has the wrong information. There are a lot of scammers out there. The people who get taken advantage of is because they accidentally landed in the wrong place. They weren’t dumb or not savvy. The only reason I know anything is I once opened the right promotional email and ended up here instead of the wrong place. and it must be even easier to land in the wrong place if you’re not from North America.

Keffy: Like JR said, there are a huge amount of places where they don’t have computers but they all have mobile phones. There are kids right now writing full novels in the back of the English class on their phone.

JR: There was a teacher at our school who was holding back giving notebooks to the kids because they had to “earn” them. Me and my boss were so mad at that. They are only reading white men from the 1930s and so if we go into the class and we say we’re going to write poetry they go “yuck! ugh!” because they think of writing as something that is for “him” and not for themselves. And I say no, we’re going to write what YOU want to write.

Nisi: OK, let’s open it to questions since we’ve got 45 minutes left. Oh no wait, only 15 minutes left! Where did the time go!

Tempest: We got talking.

(Then came questions from the audience but my fingers are cramping so I’m going to stop typing.)

from cecilia tan https://ift.tt/2Hp1KkE via IFTTT

[chrysalisim]

SEASONS TAG

I was tagged by @pxelbutterflies -thanks kimmy!

1. which season are you going to play with first?

well. i would love to see fall first, but my story is still taking place in late august/early september-ish.....so i might have to see summer first.

2. from what you’ve seen in the trailer, what are you most excited about?

holidays!!! i’m so excited for (what looked like) new years! i love holiday decorations. it’s not in the trailer, but custom holidays sounds fun!

3. what’s your favourite season irl?

F A L L. Not the beginning of fall, when it still feels like summer, but I mean actual fall. When it’s a little windy and it’s just starting to get cold.

4. what’s your favourite flower/plant?

this sounds basic, but i love roses and sunflowers. i also have some succulents that i have somehow kept alive. am i a plant mom yet

5. are you going to create a new sim/family or are you going to keep your current household?

keep the same household! i’m going to probably experience seasons for the first time with winnie & co., but i have a personal save that I’ve had since 2014 when i first got ts4.....i’m only on gen 4 of that family, but i jump in between like 20 households at this point. this is a story for another time. anyways, i’ll probably play more with the features of seasons in that save!

6. what would you like to see in this new add-on that we haven’t seen yet?

hmm.....i’m not sure i can really think of anything else, except maybe how weather will affect occult sims? pets? i’m not too sure...OH, will sims be more susceptible to illness in certain seasons/weather?

7. how do you feel about not having a new neighbourhood?

i’m fine with it. i don’t think seasons in ts3 came with a new world.......i dont remember though. i dont think you can really make a “themed” world for seasons. san myshuno was specifically crafted for city living because of apartments, festivals, etc. brindleton bay was specifically crafted for pets to be a small town, home-y place. i dont think you could do that with seasons, especially when half of them are complete opposites (summer/winter, spring/fall).

8. snow, rain, sun or wind?

depends on the temperature and where i am. if its not too hot, i like the sunshine! if i’m in my room, R A I N

9. favourite refreshing drink in summer?

there’s a place by my university famous for lemonade and their vanilla and peach flavors are the bomb.

10. favourite hot drink in winter?

hot chocolate or coffee! i’m not a big tea drinker, mostly just when i’m sick.

11. walk through the forest or by the beach?

dependent on where the forest is/how dense. being in the middle of the woods would freak me out, so i’d say beach!

12. swimming pool or ocean?

swimming pool for swimming, ocean for just relaxing.

13. where would you like to travel if you could leave right now for a week?

I want to go to Italy so badly, it’s beautiful and i’ve heard the people are so nice

14. how is the weather today?

G R O S S. it’s been so hot, and it’s been raining on and off so the humidity is through the roof. this is by far my least favorite weather.

15. what new traits would you like to see in the new add-on?

oooooo i don’t know.....maybe a new take on the loves the heat/cold traits we got in ts3....maybe a trait that marks your sims as “easily burned” if they stay outside too long in the summer!

16. do you like to play with supernatural creatures like vampires and aliens? and if so, would you like to have witches/fairies/elves?

unfortunately, no, not really - my gameplay is more realistically centered.

17. what is your favourite thing to do during winter?

we have a fireplace in my home so i like sitting in the living room with a hot drink and either a good book or a good tv show!

18. …during spring?

uh. i’m not sure...hike, maybe? OH WAIT there’s a big grassy lawn at my university and it’s nice to sit there on a blanket and study or play with dogs or smth.

19. …during summer?

um, NOTHING because I H A T E hot weather. hate it. i guess i like swimming because then im shielded from the hot fiery hell outside

20. …during autumn?

hammocking!

21. have you already pre-ordered seasons? and if you haven’t, are you going to pre-order it or wait until it comes out?

no. i’ll wait for it to come out and then in a few weeks the physical copy will prob be on sale at target. ive gotten every expansion for $20 at target like a month after they come out. patience

22. in which neighbourhood are you going to play first with seasons?

probably san myshuno

23. do you listen to music while playing? and if so, what are your favourite songs to play to?

no, i don’t! i usually have my tv on in the background though

24. what’s your favourite thing to do in the sims? creating sims, building, etc?

creating sims! which sucks because i create so many i want to play with but i refuse to make any new saves outside of my story and my first save, so i dont usually get to incorporate them!

25. what’s your favourite kit/pack/add-on?

hmmmm. any pack? or just game or stuff packs? expansions, city living and pets. game pack.....i think parenthood. and stuff packs....laundry day and bowling i think have my favorite cas and build/buy things

26. and finally, what add-on/pack would you like to see next?

oooooooooooooh boy. ummm i don’t know actually! university would be nice, but i think i want a tropical themed add-on more than anything! i want my sims at the actual beach. the bay is nice, but i want an island paradise kind of deal!

im sure everyone has prob done one of these by now so pls forgive me if i tag you and youve already done it.... ill tag @maxismademedoit @ali3npixls @psychoxmachia and @whiisker