#so it's less about 'they'll become who they were in S1' than it is about 'steve deserves to move on from a girl that wasn't good to him'

[kurokoros]

As someone who admittedly doesn’t like st/ncy in the slightest, I’d say it’s less about character regression and more about it making the characters (Steve, mostly) feel stunted. It feels very unfair to have Steve still be hung-up on the high-school girlfriend that settled for him when the other guy didn’t ask her out, cheated on him emotionally for almost the entirety of their relationship (which is pretty obvious when you watch the end of S1, there’s definitely a longing look from Nancy directed at Jonathan), and then debatably physically cheated on him at the end (I say “debatably” because supposedly the Duffers and actors have said st/ncy broke up during their argument so it wasn’t cheating, but that seems like them trying to save face in post). Steve feels stunted by st/ncy because you’d think at some point in the last 1.5 years his feelings would have dimmed, or he would have realized that he deserved better than being treated the way he was. 

The regression argument comes in because in S3 Steve tells Robin in a moment of emotional sincerity that he’s not in love with Nancy anymore. We the audience had no reason to believe he was lying in that scene, so to have Steve suddenly be interested in Nancy again (and to have all of these other characters telling Steve to make a move, including the two characters he’s closest to) feels almost like a step backwards in terms of writing. Like, the writers weren’t sure what to do with Steve in S4 so they just gave him a romantic plot-thread with the only viable character. It’s also fair to assume Steve and Nancy don’t hangout outside of Upside Down situations. And if they haven’t interacted much in the 1.5 years since their breakup, it does feel a little odd for them to be looking at each other the way they do.

Personally, I think S4 would have been a good way to properly wrap up the st/ncy breakup, instead of reignite feelings that imo were never really there on Nancy’s side to begin with (as of the end of S1), because the show had Steve take the breakup very very graciously, when there could have been more resentment. S4 would have been a good season for them to have to team-up and actually talk about what went wrong instead of just pinning it on steve being “a shitty boyfriend.”

I genuinely don't understand why is stancy universally seen as a regression of character development? Or Steve still having feelings for her? I can understand people not liking the ship, I just don't understand where is the whole regression thing coming from? I thought the whole point of stancy was that they have both had development, so in case they got back together their relationship would be different than it was. That's literally spelled out in the show with that speech Steve had in UD? So why is everyone acting like they would suddenly both become their season 1 selves if they started dating again?

people just consider it regression because they don’t like it lol.

i don’t see it as regression, mainly because i don’t think we ever actually saw steve or nancy move on. like, they’ve changed as people, yeah. but their relationship never really had closure or ended, so i think it makes sense they’d have lingering feelings. whether you ship them or not, i don’t think it should be impossible to admit that.

(i think it’s weird how vitriolic people are towards steve for still having feelings towards nancy. like people hate him for it, and i just can’t understand why)

anyway, yeah, i don’t even think their relationship was that bad in s1.

though i will say that i don’t think nancy has developed much since s1/stancy, so the relationships could be unhealthy. however, i do also think that stancy getting back together would force nancy to go through development and grow as a person. because stancy could never get back together without them acknowledging what tore them apart. steve’s done that, but nancy hasn’t yet.

[mdhwrites]

The issue with Owl House is that it’s cliche in the most boring way. A show can be filled with overused tropes yet still be entertaining yet the Owl House just…isn’t.

This is why I can’t rewatch the show because it’s just not exciting enough to do so.

So I'm mostly going to focus on the rewatch value of the show here rather than the trope elements, I feel like I covered that only a couple blogs ago. For why it's a bad rewatch though: I've said before that TOH is REALLY good at introducing elements and TERRIBLE at follow through. Amity was presented with a lot of great potential in just two episodes because of how clear it was that her current relationship with success was toxic but that you also didn't necessarily want to see her fail in her goals. Then she becomes just a love interest who entirely forgets her goals and has pretty much everything we had introduced in the first two episodes she appeared in swept under the tacky rug named Odalia. Literally two of the first 5 episodes... Wasted. Almost entirely pointless because you could jump in at Lost in Language and her character reads WAY more consistent... But less compelling. She wants to be good at school but it isn't consuming her mind, even at that point despite Luz not really having discussed that part of her at all. She's much closer to a normal, driven girl rather than one demented by the need to succeed. That is frankly just less interesting, at least without ANY explanation as to why besides 'girl crush'. It's akin to how by Escaping Expulsion, she's let her grades slip and only seems to care because her parents are saying she's not allowed to have friends because of it. Or, more importantly, Luz.

That's the thing: Most of the character arcs and elements in TOH don't build on one another. Instead, you start with this really well built house that could use a few additions but it's quite serviceable as is... And then each episode takes a sledgehammer to it. Even the world counts for this. An interesting dystopia fueled by greed where being normal is prioritized over being good? Where everyone is looking for a dime and would threaten to kill you for their own gain because they know they'll get away with it so long as they do it in a normal manner? That's FASCINATING. And that is explicitly the Isles we get for about three episodes.

But then with Covention, it shrinks. Suddenly people are just a little suspicious of Eda but you start realizing that she does run a market stall in the middle of town. That without posters, people practically don't care about her bounty. Cheating is seen as unacceptable rather than what should be the norm with the lack of morals on the Isles. All while it hasn't actually examined the world it implied early on besides honestly a pretty normal con artist and the fact the school was willing to kill an intruder.

Just think about any element really. The EC/Lilith? Presented as really cool and something that could genuinely be a philosophical debate against Eda. Then their second episode is Once Upon a Swap, where they end with their leader as a dog and can't control a witch who has pretty much no control over her magic. So interesting. -_- Hunter is FAMOUS for this. The Golden Guard is an entirely different personality from Hunter himself and implies a LOT of fascinating things about him... And then they're all immediately dropped by Hunting Palisman, even small details like him being a prodigy respected in the EC. Willow is an unexpected one as her first real return is Hooty's Moving Hassle which bungled her power issues so badly, it took Sport in a Storm for the majority of the fandom to realize they were resolved in the sixth episode.

It's also why the show keeps having to add elements rather than having anything to actually expand on. Eda gets pretty much her entire character finished up by the end of S1. She could still teach Luz about potions and genuinely examine the struggle she has with the difference between little magic and no magic but... Instead she gets glyphs and a super form rather than proper character development. Then she gets a love interest that is what she focuses on for a couple episodes of the season. They even have to escalate the curse, despite it being toned down being part of the S1 climax, just because they have so little to actually do with her at this point. They've accelerated her character so quickly past all the things she supposedly cared about that they have to grasp at straws for what can be pulled back. It's why Willow and Amity take effectively an entire season to follow up on the end of Understanding Willow because at that point, they're desperate for Amity to be able to do ANYTHING that isn't just Luz. It's why she suddenly gives a shit about her father out of NOWHERE. It's why Gus has to have the same problem rehashed three times but tackled at with his only two character traits and then sudden anxiety issues that technically aren't out of character but still feel like they came out of nowhere. Because if the show isn't adding something to a character, it only has so much room to go, at least from how the writers seemed to have thought.

It's actually part of why Luz is so incredibly stagnant in S1. Her character is actually really basic and the show itself has NO INTEREST in multiple elements of it. She can be described in the first episode as a bullied girl who is an outcast from normal people with a desire to live out a fantasy instead and has a good heart. Now that first half, the bullied girl who is an outcast, is jettisoned for the sake of making Luz's transition into the Isles easier/selling the idea of the Isles as a place she/the viewer want to be in easier. She never has social anxiety or the like, or even struggles to make friends and connections, because that would get in the way of seemingly what the writers actually care about like their romance plots and her wish fulfilment. So if you don't have those elements then all you have is her desire to live out a fantasy and that she has a good heart.

And for like half the show, that pretty much doesn't change at all. It's why a lot of the episodes with her effectively come down to her making a mistake because she wants to live out an Azura book, implicitly (Teenage Abomination) or explicitly (Covention), but then her good heart makes her set things right. And that is fine for your MC. It actually worked to keep her unobtrusive from the other characters as they worked through their arcs and lessons. MCs like this work well in general honestly. I've referenced Danny Phantom and Randy Cunningham as characters who fit this archtype, who also are pretty basic as both are teenage boys who would like to be popular but also have good hearts that will cause them to do the right thing even if it humiliates them, and those shows are great! There are issues with the style, and Luz has PLENTY OF THEM, but they work for a base.

But part of her stagnancy and issues with the trope is that she never seems to learn anything. That's because of TOH's problem of only tearing a character apart... Until it replaces. Lilith isn't Lilith anymore. She's now the cool aunt. Eda was practically never criminal or anarchist. She's just Momma Eda. The Golden Guard never existed, there's only the sad but mad boy. Etc. Etc.

The old character and their history do not exist and the new one... Is usually summed up really easily. Usually just with the statement of "A generally nice person." But having excised all of that old potential also means they can't do a lot with these characters without seeming to go back on their character development. This is why we get Hunter as a new Amity so someone can do her angst a second time since they decided to race past it all. It's why we get romance added more heavily because there are still tropes they can do with that genre and even love interests they can add. Why nothing gets explored because the show was so impatient to get to the big moments it wanted, even before the shortening since that mostly didn't affect the first half of the series so stuff like Amity's rushed development was not something forced on them, that it lost out on the chance to do the actually interesting ideas they pitched in the first place. Remember how Luz and Eda were pitched at the beginning as student/mentor? Theoretically, as the two main characters? And how after Adventure in the Elements, they have two plots together where they speak for more than like a minute with each other. Stranger Tides and Titan Where Art Thou, the latter of which actually rehashes a concept from literally a season ago (Grom) because they just forgot about Luz wanting Eda's approval until then.

All of this, all of this rambling, makes it so that while I am a firm proponent for the journey meaning more than the destination... It's hard to want to go back on that journey. To constantly be like "This is the best this character will ever be," through the first half of the show, if that, and then have only a couple character climaxes to look forward to. Worse yet is that even these introductory episodes HINGE on payoffs down the line, like Understanding Willow. That potential was part of what made them good when honestly a lot of them are kind of boring without the novelty of the potential story they're setting up. Knowing there's no payoff just makes the setup INFURIATING.

It also makes it really easy to understand why so many praised it so much harder early on. It comes out of the gate swinging but its punches have no follow through so when S1 was done and everything was introduced, the potential for the show was laid bare, we got HUNDREDS of animatics. We got thousands of comics. The fandom has NEVER thrived harder.

But by even the hiatus in S2... There's a reason why a LOT of people jumped onto Clarvee like ravenous hounds. A reason why a lot of people jumped onto Huntlow when it started being teased. Kept jumping to new elements being added because the old ones were left to rot, if they weren't actively sabotaged.

And the finale for a lot of people so actively contradicted one of those early statements, one of those early novelties people pointed to for why an okay episode was better than it was, that it really feels like it fractured the fandom. A lot of people saw Luz become a chosen one, literally empowered by God with no consequences and little work, and one of those things that people praised from episode 2... Shattered.

And suddenly they realized that strong house they thought they'd lived in the entire series had so many holes in it from the sledgehammers that it all simply fell as if it were always a house of cards.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[cookinguptales]

some feelings about wwdits under a cut, for negativity

WWDITS... I don't know. I don't think I've found the writing entirely fulfilling for a while now. s4 had its problems, but s5 was... let's just say not nearly as funny or cohesive as I would've liked, and the characterization has been... wandering, to put it kindly. Seeing it end now feels a little less like losing my favorite show and a little more like stopping it before things really start to spiral.

I remember someone asked me once post-s3 what (if anything) would make me stop watching the show, and I said Guillermo leaving for good or the characters becoming less supernatural. (i.e. Nandor becoming human for good or something.) I really hate shows where the characters become "normal" as a happy ending, so that's really my nightmare scenario. I'm not exaggerating when I say I think I'd literally rather the characters die than lose the spark that makes them interesting.

Honestly, I feel like that's probably a lot of what's made it hard for me to move forward with writing fic for wwdits after the s5 finale. It felt not only OOC for Guillermo but just... such a boring direction to take it. I feel like there were so many ways they could have made non-vampire Guillermo interesting and IC and they just. did not do that. Instead they ignored a lot of previous canon in order to cancel out an entire season while also trying to make us believe that Guillermo choosing humanity is a happy and fulfilling ending for anyone.

And when you look at characters like Laszlo... like they keep giving him plot lines that go absolutely nowhere. The poignancy of his adventures in fatherhood and his depression over losing his child were basically nowhere to be seen in s5. (I kept expecting them to tie it back to his loss over Baby Colin, like he was making Guillermo his new project because he wasn't coping well with losing his son, but they never really went there.) And then they have him doing all of these experiments in s5 that don't really amount to anything other than making it canon that he can't even remember what happened in s1.

(Or... the writers can't, at least...)

I don't know. When none of the plot lines they write are given weight, it's hard for me to give them weight. If none of the characters' choices matter because they'll just be reset anyway, why do I care about their choices? If entire plot lines are just going to go absolutely nowhere (when they're given endings at all) why should I get invested in them?

They set up a lot of interesting themes about found family, the supernatural world as a haven for those who are queer or otherwise socially othered, etc. and then had Guillermo outright choose the human world and his human family over the found family they'd been setting up for five seasons. Having Guillermo be okay with killing vampires but not humans (which... again, makes no sense with his behavior towards humans in the past, but I digress) basically explicitly tells us that he sees vampire life as lesser than human life and like ????? then how are we supposed to interpret the relationships and themes you've spent all this time building???

When you have Guillermo coming out as being gay and also wanting to be a vampire in the same breath and then have him reject that world, when you give these interviews talking about how making Guillermo and Nandor have [gay] sex would lessen their relationship... I don't know! It almost feels like they can't even keep track of their own themes and really do not care if they shit on the audience that's loyally followed them even through some really questionable writing decisions!

I guess at this point, I only worry that they really do see becoming human and leaving the supernatural world as being a happy ending for all these characters. Are they going to make the other vampires human, too? Are they going to have Guillermo leave for good and choose the human world?

Like it's literally my nightmare scenario. lmao.

I guess I just feel like I've been cutting wwdits a lot of slack because I assumed that the writers were going somewhere really interesting with these seemingly incomprehensible choices, but now that I've realized that they're really just... not great writing choices...

It'll be easier to let go, I guess. I don't have nearly the same emotional connection to this show that I did even six months ago, much less a year and a half ago. If you told me even a year ago that my reaction to my favorite show's cancellation would be "...oh..." I wouldn't have believed you. But. I guess here we are.

I keep trying to make myself feel the same love for this show that I did during the first three, three and a half seasons, and I'm just not sure I can do it. I've been going around in circles over this for months now, but I just feel kind of hollow when I reach for the joy that this show used to inspire in me. And now that I know it's ending soon, I guess my mind is just kind of going "well, I guess it'll all be over with soon, one way or another, and I'll finally be able to choose a way to feel about it all."

I think... honestly, I think the only way I can be happy writing fic going forward is if I write fic that actively ignores a lot of the canon developments. It's literally too fucking difficult to eke out coherent characterization from what they've been putting out lately, and maybe it would feel more fun and less like homework if I just stopped trying.

I really, really hope that the last season of this show is beautiful and gorgeous and funny and makes me remember exactly what I love about it just in time to mourn it forever. I hope that I will happily be able to write fics incorporating every ounce of canon and feel fulfilled by that. But... honestly speaking, at this point I'm just hoping that the last season doesn't actively piss me off. lmao

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[laufire]

This is redhoodinternaldialectical from the "main" blog, returning fire with the character ask game :3

For Jason: 23. Fav picture of this character 24. What character from another fandom reminds you of them? 26. Freebie question! What do you think his complicated opinions about Heathclif would be? (Saw ur tags about that hehehe)

I might come back with other characters, but just Jason for now cause it's WAY passed my bedtime

Fav picture of this character

there are so many options... (see: my header of his hamlet moment). but I'm going to go with this one, from batman annual #25.

I fucking love a character climbing out of his own grave. and that lightning bolt is so frankenstein of him <3

What character from another fandom reminds you of them?

my mind is wired to draw parallels and comparisons, and I happen to be rewatching a tv show (the 100, one of those "it could be so good if it was good" things xD) where sometimes it seems that all my favourite characters have some jason-coded moments and traits lol.

BUT. among all of them, we definitely need to talk about john murphy!!! he's my #1 in that show (with some strong competition), because I love his journey. he really started being... well, what dc regularly tries to convince us robin!jason was: a mean, angry teen, product of his society, who lashed out at people once he could, because he had been wronged himself. this show gave him far more grace about it (even during his messy revenge quest lol), and in season 2 they landed on a really potent love story with him and another character, emori (another outcast in her own society, this time because she was born with a mutation, that survived by stealing from others) that ended up catapulting him to Romantic Hero status in a way s1!murphy couldn't have dreamed of lmao. it was great.

even his backstory (which he's given in the first episode of s2) is. very jason añdslkfjasf. two important things about this gifset is a) the girl here, raven (another favourite), has a similar backstory (alcoholic mother who failed to take care of her, raven would've starved if not for the kindness of her neightbour & childhood sweetheart). she's taunting murphy because a few episodes before murphy shot her in the spine (he didn't intend to hurt her but it wasn't exactly an accident. part of his messy revenge quest against a -barely- adult who failed him lol). she hates him, and yet she clearly can't help but empathise </3. a few episodes later she tries to get him killed to save her ex <3. in a few seasons they'll become best friends <3. as far as I'm concerned she's memori's third <333

a few other things in favour of "jason-coded murphy" are this post, or the fact that at one point murphy had to use sex to survive in a way I personally headcanon jason doing (I've actually drawn some comparisons between that plot and nightwing/tarantula but only stylistic ones; plot-wise it's a very different situation where he displays an attitude closer to what I imagine jason doing).

What do you think his complicated opinions about Heathclif would be?

alñsdkfjasdf I can't believe I'm going to talk more about other characters than about jason but here we are lol.

anyway first of all, unlike many people in this fandom, jason is a smart cookie capable of differentiating fact from fiction, who could recognise heathcliff did some really fucked shit against undeserving people and still appreciate the hell out of him as the fascinating character he is. tyvm. that said, he's also someone who gets very personal about literature xD

one thing about heathcliff is that he does what some people argue jason is doing when he "targets" tim or mia (or damian, but that's bftc and fandom has more or less accepted that it's a mess, and also damian isn't white :))). aka, he's (a grown man!!) viciously, hatefully going after innocent children for the sins of their fathers!! for shame. sorry but that's not even true in bftc or hush (the situations there were very messy and the writers desperately needed medical consultants to make them make any sense, get off his dick xD), but definitely not true for titans tower or seeing red. jason was NOT trying to kill these teens (a few years younger than him at most), he's never wanted them death, and he's never even aimed to caused grievious, irreparable damage. again, get off his dick :P

but it's interesting to me thinking about jason reading the book for the very first time during the lost days era, in particular. he would empathise with heathcliff's desire for revenge, but I don't think he'd ~relate as strongly to him as some people think. yes, there is mistreatment in their youths and the revenge plot (after heathcliff does whateve he does in his own lost days period lol); there's even possible racial ambiguity in common, if we take into account the shiva thing. and he'd half-mindedly draw some links between bruce and earnshaw senior and, if he's feeling ungenerous lol, between dick and hindley, but nothing particularly strong, imo.

but I can see even this faint link being enough to have him pondering his own lines, what he's willing to do once he returns and what he isn't. and it's a fact that jason crossed some of his own purported lines, because he was too in his head about bruce or because they were convenient at the moment or because of all other reasons. and I picture him rereading the book years down the road, and grappling with that fact. wondering if heathcliff had drawn his own lines beforehand or gone all in from the beginning, wondering if he had any regrets. eta: it's interesting that he goes about his revenge in a very different way than heathcilff, who does it by becoming a legitimate (ymmv) landowner himself, one of the privileged, the top dog in a system, etc., and abuses his newfound poewr that way.

anyway. otherwise, he would appreciate heathcliff as the force he is in the narrative, while being utterly disgusted by some of his actions. at the same time he'd be really wary of the unreliable narration (I imagine him thinking nelly gives all the lintons too much grace, even if he obviously would think heathcliff's actions towards isabella and cathy are undefensible). I also believe he's ready to fist-fight anyone that supported the "monstrous" readings of heathcliff as something inhuman, as some supernatural force of nature. heathcliff, to him, is utterly human.

ALSO. jason is definitely that bitch who reads the FUCKING UNHINGED SHIT (x, x, x, x, x) catherine and heathcliff say about each other and be like. why can't that be me 😭. he's fucking unwell.

(and feel free to ask me about any other character you want! or any extra questions about jason lol)

[my-mt-heart]

Sorry if this is a huge downer, but I'm just getting so worried. Are there enough Caryl fans to make AMC listen? I posted a drawing of a Caryl kiss I drew on fb the other day, in a Melissa McBride appreciation group no less, and it got so many "ew" and "gross" comments I ended up deleting it. If that's the consensus among the general public, I'm so scared they'll just end up listening to those voices

I’m really sorry. I hope you won’t let that experience discourage you. You’re so talented and your work gives Caryl fans something to smile about when they’re going through a hard time ❤️

In recent years, FB has become more of a hub for younger men 25-34 and also 18-24 and unfortunately they’re more likely to have biases against a romantic relationship like Caryl’s. That could be one of the issues you’re running into.

I’ve also talked before about how Caryl fans are retreating to more private corners of the internet or avoiding online spaces altogether because of increased bullying, but to address your concern about the GA, I think some are having a harder time recognizing the romance that we know was written into the show early on because of how much Gimple pulled back on their arc and how much AMC pulled back on marketing them (for reasons that had nothing to do with the story or with changes in the market, I will add 🤨)

The good news I suppose is it all comes down to target audience. It’s better to have 2 million guaranteed fans who will follow you to the ends of the earth than 4 million wishy washy fans who won’t guarantee viewership and take A LOT more effort to market to.

The marketing for S2 of le spinoff is most definitely aimed at Carylers, so AMC knows there’s a lot to be gained from their viewership. I just think with the damage S1 is doing and the gaslighting from actors and EPs on top of the mistrust from ruining S11 and the original spinoff, they’re going to need to hit a lot harder and soon.

While S10 aired, the Caryl fandom was booming and once the spinoff was announced, we were like weeds that wouldn’t stop growing (I started my blog a month after the announcement). They were the runner-up in TV Guide’s best endgame ship poll, they made Tumblr’s top 100 list, the social media manager for Skybound at the time said the Caryl engagement beat other TWD ships by miles. I think we can get that energy back, but Caryl fans 👏 need 👏 fuel. We need to feel validated for shipping them.

I completely understand feeling like no one is listening, so my advice is keep reminding them that you’re here. Keep being vocal about what you want and what you'd pay for. I know what I'd pay for…👀

[angelsdean]

where does the whole dean-hates-monsters comes from anyway? he's more against some actions/mindsets than species. how many monsters are in his family? how many times he sides with them against humans? with the kids, obv, but also benny against that hunter, and garth. i'm ready to bet if a monster feeds on creeps instead of innocents he would let them go. (actually... it almost happens with godstiel right?). important reminder: it's the guy who says in s1 "demons, I get, but humans are crazy"

literally !! so many times dean is shown to be sympathetic toward monsters / supernatural beings and by the end of the show most of the ppl they consider family, friends, and allies are or have been monsters / supernatural beings.

yes both dean and sam have had john's black and white view towards monsters drilled into their skulls and we see them both grapple with unlearning that rigid mentality of monster = bad always. and like with all things it's complicated and not a straightforward path. they'll go a few steps forward in unlearning that and then some steps back.

honestly i think a lot of the fanon belief that dean Hates monsters come from misinterpretations of the whole sam bloodfreak storyline and buying into sam's POV of the situation. sam feels like he's inherently monstrous and impure. he feels like he's a monster and thinks everyone else must think so too. he projects a lot of those insecurities onto dean and puts words into dean's mouth. dean does think something's wrong and wants to stop sam from going down this path but i think for him it's less abt seeing sam as a monster and more about the fact that if dean doesn't stop him someone else will. like heaven has literally threatened to stop sam (implied killing him). dean also wants to stop sam from going down this path because john said if sam goes darkside he'd have to kill him and that's something dean refuses to do. so, if sam doesn't go darkside then there would be no reason for anyone to have to kill him therefore dean is opposed to sam being a bloodfreak and will stop it if it means keeping sam alive.

also by s4, dean is freshly back from hell where he's spent 40 yrs up close and personal with demons and torture and watching sam get manipulated by a demon and seeing him become power hungry and be changed in ways that literal heaven is telling him are dangerous and will lead to bad things is probably something that scares him and something he would want to prevent and save sam from. so really, it's less about dean hating sam for being "a monster" (something that sam isn't even !! his "monstrous" qualities are not inherent. the 'disease' pumping through his veins at that point is just...demon blood. which he is making a choice to willingly consume. but anyways.) and instead it's more about just, wanting to keep sam alive since everyone is threatening to kill him if he continues down the path he's on.

i think generally if dean cares about the person and/or sees that they are not harming innocent people he's chill with just letting them be. and i think IF the show actually continued to explore the nuance and gray areas of monsterhood and continued to show dean and sam unlearning john's black and white beliefs there would have been a point eventually where they realized they don't have to hunt at all, and that there are other ways they can stop monsters from hurting people, other ways to help monsters, esp those who were once human but turned. but yea they never really went deep enough on those themes so we never got that. but yea, dean has loved and cared for many supernatural beings. he's a monsterfucker. he's not the hater some make him out to be.

[brilliantfantasticgeronimo]

jamie+zoe "i missed him every day of my life" gay

so far both tegan and zoe had their moment of "who i became after my travels shaped who i was / i tried to what the doctor would od". really feels like it's continuing the theme started in s1 of newwho and that has been developed every season since (+ in spin offs)

not much else to say cause i never connected to the second era emotionally tbh sdlkfj

six+peri

SIX AND PERI FINALLY GETTING THE CLOTHING THEY DESERVE

bro nicola is so good wtf. give this woman an spin-off

"your story is far from over"? OH "for both of us" this is so tru metatextually. no doctor's story is ever over. six and peri are still having new adventures every year in eu and fic. and they'll contineu to have them forever. these character's story really aren't ever over. (oh how i wish newbie fans understood this when they start to get too dramatic over regeneration)

"some i would rather forget" yeah… very metatextual for six lol

man i really need to listen to their big finish. they've dev'd their performance so much.

cant wait to see what idiot's lantern sketch troupe does with this lol

clyde + jo

clyde and jo is such a deep cut…. god honestly how can fans have the time to get all frisky about the "series 1" naming thing when THIS is literally happening at the same time. when the whoniverse announcement is happening at the same time. when FINALLY you don't have to scourage long-hidden dailymotion account to watch the classic stories with 144p quality. this fandom really misses the forest for the trees (misses the STORY for silly branding stuff)

they are so chaotic i love them

i love that this continues the SJA thoughtline of sarah jane really managing to build her own legacy, her own world, her own family after the doctor. it's so heartwarming.

"by the way, i heard, and im sorry" "thank you" THIS IS SUCH A DEEP CUT

"good… she's good…" rani/clyde shippers everywhere DISTRAUGHT

(sooo these companions that went on to "fight climate change" (jo grant, tegan, rani, ryan)… do we think they went to X.R.? Earth First? J.S.O?…formed an ecosocialist party? lol "fighting for the environment" can mean a lot of things) -RANI/CLYDE SHIPPERS EVERYWHERE R E J O I C

(cries again)

steven + viki

ngl i do love that between all the over-archiving "where are they now"s you have vicki like "i planted olives". icon.

"i got my little sister back" doNt ta Lk T oM E

"can you imagine the doctor wearing something like this?"

hm have to agree with others saying this could have focused more on steven. when i think of "unresolved angst" in doctor who steven is defo up there at the top lol

im also not sure im too into the idea of him becoming a king post-show. then again, havent kept up with his eu so idk it might be a thing. i thought it was more of a diplomatic position?

idk idk. the vicki stuff WAS good but i think this is the only one in this series that's a bit weaker for me ( im super glad it exists tho)

ace + seven

ace's rainbow pin…………………………………………

"last time i saw you, you were a hologram" continuity !!!!!! cry me a river anti-chibnalls lolol

man i really need to read their books!! 7 era really is something else with all the like… poetic, cosmic-philosophy dialogue style.

"i needed someone to blame" damn…good line. says a lot about how seven is to blame for A Lot but Ace had to learn to separate things and not make it All about him. Really good character stuff.

ngl some of this dialogue could really work with thasmin SKLDJ like, make it less paternal and more romantic of course... but the template is there… i really love how ace and yaz have come to be kind of mirrored / connected in the eu tbh (and likewise how 13 and 7 have come to be foils. but more comparative foils than how previously 7 and 5 were antagonistic foils) (i hope this is all ground that is explored some day in the eu. would love to see something like Cold Fusion but with 7/13)

"it was london ONTARIO"

"it was your destiny you set in motion" obsessed with this dialogue

"the best it yet to come" sTop maKing me CRy

"we made a great time" "we were wicked" TOT

...i guess for me this is one will have to be pete mctighe's redemption for kerblam lol

me dropping all my rl obligations to scream about the blorbos for two hours

[thetaoofbetty]

this is a sincere question i always wanted to ask you as a betty fan :) (and jughead and bughead in general ofc but this is only about our baby coop!) what do you personally think about betty kissing archie or the fact that (as others say) she is not a good friend? the fact that when she makes a mistake she prefers livin in gulty more than hurting her loved ones. what's your pov? you can not answer this but i was curious since you also explain betty character really well.

what do i think about betty kissing archie? it was stupid. aside from the kiss itself being shoved into a musical with no buildup, they didn't establish any real reason for it to happen in my opinion. it's not because betty is a bad person or doesn't love jughead, it was so clearly obviously done to blow up the core 4 before graduation for the time jump.

the very little foreshadowing they've done to make it seem like b/a was going to be what blew it up (jughead's insecurity in 1x10, archie in 1x13, betty using archie as a jughead filler in s2, jughead and archie's conversation in 2x14, etc) made me aware that there was always going to be some sort of plot device for b/a but this one was particularly poorly handled. and then it felt like they went in a very specific direction with archie in 4x18 and walked it back.

badly done all around.

tho, i will never not find it funny the show paid b/a dust the way they did.

and yes, betty sits on pain/guilt to keep it from hurting others much to her own detriment. if people haven't noticed from the first episode of s1 that betty sits on her emotions i don't know what to tell people. it's always been right there. i do think it's funny that the people who always come down on her for it are the same people who hate archie for always opening his mouth no matter who it hurts. then again, same crowd who thinks betty didn't apologize to jughead so, eh. what can you do? is it one of her better qualities? no. do i think we should also vilify her for something so obviously born from trauma? also no. it's a learned response, it's not something she does to hurt anyone with.

as for betty being a bad friend, none of them are perfect friends but yes, there is a weird thing where betty gets held to a different standard than the others. and at times, they'll load betty up with so much plot that she doesn't have room to breathe much less be a friend to people. betty's hierarchy of concerns is often:

jughead/her family

the case she's working on (and this becomes #1 when she doesn't have her family or jughead to worry about)

everyone else

there's also a lot of times where they stick a friend in her plot to move the story along and that's the only time she gets be a friend/have a friend. i don't think it's a failure of betty in particular, i think it's a failure of the show all around. this is not the show to watch if you're hanging your hopes on the found family trope. everything revolves around the ships and their stories. 5a was the v/a show. we got lots of what archie and veronica were doing but very little bughead. which i'd guess is what 5b is for.

i do think that a lot of this is building up to the musical at this point, since it's so cooper focused and betty is not doing well. i'd vote early 5b is lots of jughead and him dealing with stuff before getting into the betty stuff. mostly because he's the only person they ever write really caring about her mental health tbh and the mystery/polly stuff is certainly taking its toll on her.

[bonearenaofmyskull]

How do you want S4 to be? Hannigramatic? How so? Do you believe they'll still be angsting or would have been mellowed a but? :D

My ideal for S4 (or 4, 5 and 6, for that matter--I’m not too particular on the time frame, so if Bryan wants to draw it out over more than one season, more power to him) is for Will to learn who he is: the limitations of him being a killer, that he’s NOT cut out for Hannibal’s lifestyle even if he tries, that no matter how beautiful he may have felt killing by Hannibal’s side was, it doesn’t sustain him and is only one aspect of the creature that he is.

This is why I asked @existingcharactersdiehorribly to ask the question that she did at RDC3, which was more or less a S4 question, disguised. S3 left us with a truly borderline Will Graham, one who had both finally accepted himself as a killer and sentenced himself to die for it, and Bryan has talked about how a future season of Hannibal would show Will truly on the other side of the wall for the first time, with his “tether” cut. So if that’s where they start him, then where do they intend to go? What’s the final destination? That disagreement between Hannibal and Bedelia, which was left somewhat open-ended in S3, seemed like it presented an opportunity to take the temperature of the writer’s room on the matter, so to speak. The answers they gave were exactly the answers I hoped and suspected that they would give, indicating both a dedication to Will’s duality (on Hugh’s part) as well as a remembrance of and dedication to his heroism (on Bryan’s part). Bryan’s answer is especially encouraging because he’s the one who holds the vision for the future and the direction the story would take for Will.

In conjunction with Will truly learning who he is, I also want to see Hannibal finally coming to accept this fact also. Sometimes I just want to ask Bryan and Mads, “Hey, do you think it could ever occur to Hannibal that if he wants to be with Will that maybe--MAYBE--he should stop trying to change Will and just maybe work on, oh, I dunno...CHANGING HIMSELF?”

I’m not necessarily holding my breath for this particular revelation to ever occur to Hannibal, or that the tiger could change its stripes if it did occur to him. But the course of the story that’s been told so far, from Hannibal’s side, has been about his gradual release of control in spite of his absolute reluctance to let go. I remember Hugh saying in some interview way back when something about how Hannibal wanted to control their relationship, but in the end it’s Hannibal who is willing to burn the world to the ground for Will, and that puts Will in control. I want to see a continuation of that.

S1 was about how Hannibal nearly got caught because he began taking risks for Will and Abigail, but he put Will in prison instead, to preserve his life and lifestyle and freedom. So he maintained his control. But S2 saw him begin the process of gradually dismantling everything in his life for Will. First the Chesapeake Ripper got sacrificed, along with Miriam Lass, his “get out of jail free” card. Then he gave up his anonymity and prestige and cushy life in Baltimore to go on the run for Will. When that didn’t work out, he could recreate those things somewhat, but then he chose to give them up again, along with his freedom--the very thing that he’d held back from giving up in both S1 and S2, that caused all this mess in the first place. Through all this, though, Hannibal has maintained a steadfast belief that Will is that mirror image of him, and so the one integral thing that he hasn’t given up is that slight lie that he’s told himself. That is the one aspect of their relationship that he has absolutely clung to, and it has controlled the nature of the relationship: that not only is Will a killer, but that bringing this out in him is the best thing for him.

I want to see Hannibal and Will both learn that Hannibal has been, to some extent, telling them both a lie. And I want to see Hannibal accept it, and love Will anyway. I want his love to truly become unconditional.

I’d like to see Will’s coming to a truer understanding of himself through Hannibal’s influence and mentoring as the “continuation” of their relationship that Bryan talked about, and Hannibal finally coming to understand the limits of his vision for Will as the “subversion/inversion” of it. 

[116t98]

I completely agree with everything here.

I personally believe there was a lot of tampering/meddling that happened behind-the-scenes, which is why the final season feels more like a Frankenstein's monster of the original season 8 than an actual/proper season in its own right (there are in-depth analyses about this, written by Team Purple Lion; they're interesting reads, even if you don't believe them). But even so, it still boggles my mind how anyone thought showing this kind of relationship the way that they did, in a kid's show, no less, was okay.

Like OP, Allura wasn't my favourite character in the show, but I get more and more upset whenever I really think of how poorly her character was ultimately treated. I would've loved to root for a character like her, but frankly, the way she was written made her character out to be... confused at best, and kinda bitchy at worst.

Like, why was she cold towards Keith after they found out about his Galra heritage? I understand her being untrusting of the Blade, but Keith? One of the people she's spent a considerable amount of time with, and who's done absolutely nothing to suggest he's evil, or loyal to anyone/anything other than Voltron and their mission? We haven't seen any evidence that her prejudice against the Galra is based on them simply being born Galra (nature), instead of the fact they were all born and raised in a society that values violence and power (nurture), yet that's what her interactions with Keith seem to suggest. Why would they seemingly base her prejudice on nature instead of nurture? I mean, everyone else in the universe? Sure, that makes sense. But Allura? Who knew Zarkon before he was corrupted, and possibly had Galran friends? Her prejudice really should've just been based on the Galra's nurture (i.e. "they were all raised to be violent, bloodthirsty monsters; that's horrific and sad, but there's nothing I can do to help/save them since they'll never let go of what they were taught to believe their entire lives, so I have no choice but to assume the worst of all Galra I come across").

Moving on to her relationship with Lance, OP covered everything that's wrong with it as a relationship, so there's no reason to reiterate what they said. There were so many ways to handle their relationship, yet the show settled for a once-sided romance that did nothing but make Allura out to be an irresponsible person, negligent girlfriend, and bad friend, all while completely ignoring the groundwork they laid out for Lance to become more self-confident and realize what he deserved and what he was worthy of.

How else could the relationship have been handled? Well...

They could've kept everything about their relationship the same, as long as the show acknowledged how toxic their relationship is, and showed how it should be properly resolved (hint: it's through confronting the reality of their relationship, Lance realizing how unfairly he's being treated and that he deserves better, Allura acknowledging that she un/knowingly used him and that what she did was wrong, and finding the best way to fix things so their friendship not only stays intact, but improves. No, "trying again" wouldn't work).

They avoid the romance entirely. Yes, they can let Lance harbor a crush that grows into something more, that's fine. But, when Allura chooses to pursue Lotor, have Lance learn to accept that she'll never return his feelings; once he does this, he can work on getting over Allura, while still being a good, supportive friend to her.

They actually show evidence of Allura slowly reciprocating Lance's advances: in s1-s2, she's annoyed; in s3-s4, she's amused; in s5-s6, she's visibly conflicted (she's into Lotor, but the thought of Lance loving her actually makes her question her feelings for the prince); and in s7, she's enamored by Lance's devotion to her as he helps her deal with her feelings about Lotor and his betrayal. This way, her blushing at Lance, and their subsequent romance, makes sense.

They do the same thing as #3, but Allura realizes that even though she got used to his flirting, and even found it amusing, she never really fell in love with Lance; her "feelings" for him in s7 weren't really for him, but rather for him supporting her when she needed it most. So, once they realize their relationship isn't working, they break up. ((think of that episode of iCarly where Freddie jeopardized his life to save Carly, and Carly convinced herself she loved him when she actually just loved that he saved her life))

They do the same thing as #3, but this time Allura and Lance break up amicably; not because of unfair treatment, or misguided feelings, but b/c they simply just don't mesh as a couple, and that's okay.

I think it's tragic that a show with so much potential to be great (and this show definitely has that potential; many of the interesting in-depth theories I've read are based on the information given to us by the show), yet it suffers from all these flaws that ultimately drag it down. Allura had the potential to be a really great and inspirational character, but the poor writing ultimately ruined her, which is just tragic. I hope that when Voltron is inevitably rebooted again in the future, the creators and writers will take these flaws into consideration, and do the characters and their relationships justice.

Why did it take me so long to post this, you ask? Because it’s three pages long. This is a literal essay! lol I think I covered everything I wanted to, and I DO think it is important – especially because I am not the only one who is still upset about this.

I’d love to hear if you agree with me – or why you don’t. If you ship Allurance, that is fine. This is just my personal take on it.

Side note: No comic update until next week. I’ve been working on stuff every day for about three weeks straight and I need a bit of a break! lol