#so it isn't confirmed at all

[truly-sincerely]

Even More Comprehensive BG3 Timeline

(Now with citations!) Years in (paren) are confirmed, all other lines are approximations. For my own sanity this timeline is based on available in-game information and not the Forgotten Realms at large.

1450s

Enver Flymm born

Gale Dekarios born (1457)

Enver Flymm sold to Raphael by his parents, renamed Gortash

Gortash learns about Crown of Karsus while a prisoner of Raphael

Karlach Cliffgate born

1460s

Gortash escapes the House of Hope

Gale Dekarios summons Tara the Tressym (1467)

Wyll Ravengard born (1468)

1470s

Lae’zel of K’liir born (1470)

Gortash in his Heapside Reavers period

Gortash rebrands as a black market arms dealer

Orin the Red born to Helena and Sarevok Anchev

Durge begins their serial killing spree in Baldur’s Gate (1477)

The Emperor dominates Duke Belynne Stelmane (1479)

1480s

Elminster resurrects Mystra (1480)

Gortash trades Karlach to Zariel for infernal machines & iron (1482)

Baldur’s Gate’s Beloved Ranger statue goes missing (1482)

Duke Abdel Adrian murdered during Returning Day speech (1482) - Bhaal resurrected - Ulder Ravengard replaces Adrian as Marshall and as Duke

Orin kills her mother Helena in self-defense

Gortash recruits Franc Peartree to distribute infernal iron weapons

Gortash establishes a cult of Bane in Baldur’s Gate

Gortash approaches Durge about an alliance

Gortash moves against the Zhentarim & Knights of the Shield

Ulder Ravengard named Grand Duke

Wyll Ravengard pact with Mizora, leaves Baldur’s Gate (1485)

Dead Three made aware of the Crown of Karsus (most likely informed by Gortash)* - Gortash becomes Bane’s Chosen - Durge becomes Bhaal’s chosen - Gortash & Durge are instructed to recruit Ketheric

Gortash tells Durge about Crown of Karsus (via correspondence)

Hall/House of Wonders test mission* - Durge gets Bhaalist memorabilia - Gortash gets a bunch of Gondian designs - Durge & Gortash get companionship

1490s

The Chosen visit Ketheric at Moonrise, learn about Illithid colony

Gortash & Durge visit the House of Hope (for intel on Mephistar?)

Gortash & Durge raid Mephistar - They get the Crown of Karsus - They get the book on the accelerated grand design

Gortash & Durge return to Moonrise - Their identities are kept secret from Ketheric’s people - Durge impresses the Moonrise Gnolls, but not Steelclaw - Ketheric yells at Durge in the throne room for an unknown reason

Durge proposes their plan to the Elder Brain who accepts

Raid on the illithid colony (1491) - Durge puts the Crown on the Elder Brain - Orin gets Durge alone during the raid & stabs them in the head - Orin tadpoles Durge, making them the first True Soul - Orin declares herself the Chosen of Bhaal

1492

Durge is found by Kressa Bonedaughter

Minsc captured by Absolutists at a recruitment rally in the Undercity

Gortash gets weird and intense with unethical experiments - Some futzing to get the tadpoles to consistently remain in stasis - This is when the name ‘True Souls’ gets coined - Extremely questionable fun with brains - Getting the Absolute’s voice sorted out - Tadpoling his parents - Poorly conceived experiments on children & their parents

Gortash has Iron Throne converted to hold hostages

Gortash presents prototype Steel Watcher to the city council

Gortash captures the Emperor

Jaheira tracks cult to shadow-cursed land, meets Isobel

Minthara Baenre is 'recruited' by Orin and Ketheric

The Descent, Elturel fall into Avernus happens

Duke Vanthampur revealed as a diabolist, killed by adventurers

Guild Bursar Uktar launders money for Gortash’s Campaign funds

Isobel is resurrected by the Dead Three

The Elder Brain sends the Chosen dreams about the Astral Prism

Gortash researches the Prism, finds out that Vlaakith has it

Gortash tasks Ketheric with sending a team to get the Astral Prism - They send a nautiloid piloted by the Emperor and other illithid - The Elder Brain lets the Emperor slip its leash - Magthew Budj arranges for Durge to be on the nautiloid as well

Gortash deploys Steel Watch in Lower/Outer City

At this point Elturel is no longer in Avernus

First Druid Halsin captured by goblins

Nautiloid picks up Shadowheart & the Prism from Astral Plane

Nautiloid picks up Lae’zel

Nautiloid goes to Baldur’s Gate, picks up Gale & Astarion

Nautiloid goes to Avernus, picks up Karlach & Wyll

Nautiloid crashes, (20 Eleasis, 1492)

Some helpful links:

A page from Sarevok’s book: Sarevok - (Murder tribunal)

Accelerated Grand Design: Gortash - (Gortash's Office)

An Offer: Gortash - (Peartree basement)

Aquatic Labor: Gortash - (Flymm’s Cargo Basement)

Baldur’s Gate Temple of Bhaal: Yanthus - (Gortash’s Office)

Balthazar’s Notes: Balthazar - (Necrotic laboratory)

Clasped Book: Balthazar - (Balthazar’s chambers)

Devil’s Fee Observer’s Report**: Himberloo - (Nine-Fingers’ office)

Elder Brain Domination: Ketheric/Yanthus - (Ketheric’s Room)

Enhanced Weapons - Sales Ledger: Peartree - (Peartree basement)

Experiment on Cruor: Orin - (Temple of Bhaal)

How To Build a Watcher: deceased Gondian - (Steel Watch foundry) 

Journal of Enver Gortash: Gortash - (Gortash’s Office)

Magical Histories: Volume 2: The Spellplague: unknown - (Sorcerous Sundries)

Memoir Notes with Recent Addenda: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

Missive from Gortash: Gortash - (Ketheric’s room)

Missive from Ketheric: Ketheric - (Moonrise, 2nd floor)

Mistress of Souls’ Research Log: Kressa - (Mind flayer barracks)

My Gratitude: Gortash - To Peartree (Peartree basement)

Next Steps: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

Prayer for Forgiveness: Durge - (Necrotic laboratory)

Scrapbook of Letters: Gortash/Durge - (Flymm’s Cobblers)

Special Operations - Infernal Arms: Uktar - 

Studies of the Elder Brains: Gortash/Yanthus - (Gortash’s Office)

Suspended Ceremorphosis: Gortash/Yanthus - (Tadpoling center)

Test Mission with Gortash: Durge - (Temple of Bhaal)

The Astral Prism Heist: Gortash - (Gortash’s office)

The Dukes of Baldur’s Gate: unknown - (Baldur’s Mouth/Peartree’s house)

The Grand Design: Gortash/Yanthus - (Mind flayer colony)

The True Life of ‘Lord’ Gortash: a skeleton - (Wyrm’s Rock Prison)

The Ultimate State: Gortash - (Gortash’s office/Flymm’s Cobblers)

*an in-game contradiction between Gortash and Durge. See: ‘Test Mission with Gortash’ and ‘Memoir Notes with Recent Addenda’. I’ve placed it after, but there’s also a legitimate argument to be made that Gortash and Durge met and became allies much earlier, possibly around the same time as Gortash’s betrayal of Karlach

Additionally, the House of Wonders (church/workshop) and the Hall of Wonders (museum) are two different buildings in the Upper City. Durge writes that the Hall is their target, while Gortash writes that the House is their target. It is my opinion that they hit both locations.

**no link cuz the bg3.wiki doesn’t have it??

[snaggletoothedbastard]

I've seen a couple of people complaining that the Captain didn't get a Coming Out Scene so that means it's Bad Rep, and I think they're missing the point a bit.

Like, sure, it would have been nice to see him finally come out but also, he doesn't have to? Personally I think it's amazing that ThemThere managed to create a character who isn't openly gay but is so obviously gay that we all just know without him having to say it. It's clear that they put a lot of thought and care into all the signs - the way he looks at the guys he has crushes on, the little offhand comments about Mike making a very fine soldier or the builder being handsome, the references to queer culture (Dorothy, Elton John, Cole Porter etc). They didn't half-ass this. They knew exactly what they were doing, and they were careful and subtle about it.

Also, we know the Captain's personality by now, right? He only talks openly about personal matters when he feels it's absolutely necessary, like when he's explaining about the bomb in "Redding Weddy" and explaining how he died in "Carpe Diem", and he doesn't seem particularly comfortable in either of these instances. He was alive in a time when he either wasn't allowed or didn't feel that he could be open about who he was, and seeing as he's sort of stuck in that time, what with him still acting like the war's continuing, he's obviously still heavily repressed. And it's in character. It makes sense for him to still be closeted. And of course, throughout the show he does gradually learn to relax and open up a bit, but he's not a fan of change anyway so it also makes sense that it takes a while for him to do that. As shown in "Gone Gone" after Mary moves on, he'd rather keep himself busy than talk about feelings.

And this is more a personal preference here, but I really really love seeing a gay character who isn't out. Now this doesn't mean I don't like openly gay characters, I love them too. But we see quite a lot of them, and it's just nice to have something a bit different. The Captain means so much to me as representation because while he's not openly gay, it's still very clear that he is gay. He's not a queerbait character, because they haven't hinted that he's gay and then revealed that he's actually straight. They've purposefully made the Captain gay, and there's barely any ambiguity, so even though he never says, "I'm gay," you'd have to be a fool to think he's anything but.

Queer people don't suddenly become queer when they come out. Just saying the words, "I'm gay," doesn't make someone gay. Being gay makes someone gay. That's it.

And the Captain is gay. That's it.

[worstloki]

there is a difference between being born to a throne, maliciously vying for a throne, stealing a throne, and having a throne thrust upon you when you are already in the midst of an identity crisis. And I fear Loki's place in the line of succession has people unable to differentiate between any of these

[jurygarroth]

aaron may be the single most misunderstood mcd/mystreet character and it’s not even funny it’s actually really stupid and baffling

[curapicas]

Now. What mattered in this speech was that textually it delayed Vein and thus it's an unhinged smile, or that it subtextually was directed to CXS, someone he's in fact, wanting to keep around a little longer and who he's about to ideologically betray, but the thought of him still makes LG smile?

[anxietycheesecake]

The Paul Simps™ have trascended the defense of homophobic writing not being queerbaiting and are now claiming not even shipbaiting is real. Like, besties, you're either illiterate or being purposefully obtuse at this point, and I don't know which one I find more concerning.

[ninashiki]

i feel like almost everything in utena has sort of already been extensively discussed in the last two (almost three) decades of utena's existence (not that there aren't new interpretations to be made, there always are) besides black rose arc (mikage+mamiya+tokiko). which is why they're so much fun to think about. i think the need to read between the lines makes it unfortunately easy to misunderstand or look past obvious stuff if you don't pay attention, but to me it's always been really obvious that mikage's arc is a literal representation of the erasure of queerness in ohtori (society?) by akio/everything he represents. and that's so fucking tragic! nemuro was never able to find a name for his desires. he lived and died as a puppet in the shadows.

[gottagobackintime]

I find it fascinating to witness the straight audience of any media not being able to pick up what the makers of the movie/show puts down.

It’s like when people reacted to the “You wear fine things well” scene in Our Flag Means Death with “aw, they’re such good friends” whereas the queer audience went “omg, this is happening”. We all had access to the same scene, we’d all watched the build up to that scene but the straight audience wrongly read it as friends/straight whereas the queer audience had suspected they were building up to a romance but this was the confirmation. Even the creator of the show was baffled that people were surprised that Ed and Stede fell in love. Because he thought they had made it obvious.

And as I said, we, the queer audience picked up on it. And I feel like the same thing is happening with Ted Lasso. Do I know that Ted and Trent will get together? No, I am unfortunately not a writer on Ted Lasso. But you can’t deny that there are clues pointing to it. But the straight audience barely pick up the fact that Ted and Trent like each other, be that in a platonic way or romantic way. I’ve seen several reactions to the last episode of season 2 and ONE of them included the scene where Ted reacts to Trent not being in the press room. All of them severely cut down the scene in the parking lot. One of the scenes most of us Ted/Trent truthers point to as a huge piece of evidence for it going canon. The parallel of them meeting in an empty parking lot, just like Ted and his ex-wife and Roy and Keeley. But because Ted and Trent are both men it couldn’t possibly mean anything. And Ted has an ex-wife and a kid so he can’t possibly be into men, as if there is no such thing as being bisexual. “But I’m pretty sure Trent has a family, he has a kid right?” So? He could be divorced, we also have no idea if his daughter has another dad or a mum. And the same thing applies to him, it doesn’t mean he can’t be into men (take also into account all of James Lance’s interviews, and his choice of shirt in one of them, friend of Dorothy anyone? He's the captain of this ship, we're just along for the ride tbh.)

Then we have the wonderful “I’m so not homophobic, in fact, you are homophobic because you think Ted is gay just because he likes musicals and has ‘feminine’ traits” um no… it’s the fact that he kind of acts in a way that an ally wouldn't. Yeah, he called himself an ally in that one episode. But every single person who is now out as queer who at one point considered themselves an ally because "I’m not one of them but I sure think they're neat" raise a hand 🖐️ (been there, done that. Was very into queer things before I realised I myself am one of them). What it always comes down to is "it's pandering", "it's tokenism" (having the main character on the show be queer wouldn't be fucking tokenism), "not everything has to be gay", "why can't men just be friends, there is a severe lack of male friendships on tv". And like the last one makes me go??? There are a MILLION friendships between men on TV. There are even multiple friendships between men in Ted Lasso. Beard and Ted, Ted and Higgins, Ted and Roy, the himbos and so on. Having Ted and Trent become a couple wouldn't really change anything because there are still friendships between men. They also claim that Ted is needed as the "straight without toxic masculinity" representation. As if Beard isn't right there. The man who has no problem going to an immersive show about the menstrual cycle. Has no problem with shrieking when he's surprised and so on.

I also like that if we'd get Ted and Trent together, we'd get two middle aged queer dads. Which isn't that common. It's not even super common to see people realising they're queer late in life on TV, and yet it happens every day. Because let's face it, most queer men on TV kind of look like Colin, and I don't mean that as a bad thing. And I'm looking forward to his storyline. But it's also nice seeing middle aged or old people finding themselves and being allowed to be who they are (see Ed and Stede from OFMD). Also would enjoy seeing people lose their minds when they realise they've been fooled this entire time. It'll be like Black Sails all over again.

I do not have any doubts about the fact that, had Trent or Ted been a woman and they saw Trent give up his career because of Ted's influence, they sure as hell wouldn't protest people thinking they'd become a couple. But because it's two men it's just delusional for some reason (homophobia).

What I'm saying is, it's clear that the straight audience has a hard time picking up subtext and clues that the makers are planting. Because they've never had to do that. Because they are always clearly represented. They don't have to look for minor side characters and hope that they might be queer. Because the main character is straight and most of the supporting cast too. When you've grown up with a lack of representation or with representation that is meant to be subtext, you'll learn to pick up on it. And you do look at media differently. I just wish that the straight audience could listen to us for once, without getting defensive and dancing around the fact that they are uncomfortable relating to a character that turned out to be queer.

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

Avatar Love talk 3: Game vs Action

Follow up from (and also defending Kyo in this vid)

Yangchen: I plead the fifth on what Kuruk said. No idea why you two think you got your horny ass desires from me. Kyoshi: I'm not the one who sensually listened to the sound of Kavik writing with a pencil, but go off? Yangchen: Again, pleading the fifth! Anyway I still think Kyoshi has the least amount of game. Kyoshi: Really? We're still on this? Can't we talk about something else? Wan: Like your mommy issues? Kyoshi, pushing his face away and knocking him down: Ok, defending my "game" it is. Yangchen: Kyoshi, really, just accept it. You can't flirt for shit. Kyoshi: Again, I don't need to. Yangchen: You keep saying that! How do you expect to get anyone if you can't or don't flirt? Kyoshi: I walk into the room and look at them. Maybe smile, if I'm feeling feisty. Yangchen: That's not going to work- Wan: It worked for you, Yangchen. Yangchen: *deflated* Kyoshi: Oh so it's "flirting" and "super game" if Yangchen does it, but if Kyoshi does it then I'm just lucky? Wow. Hmmm. So fair. Yangchen: Kyoshi, you had two years with Rangi and Yun and I had five minutes with Kavik. We are not the same. Kyoshi: Listen, Yangchen, I think we've got it all wrong. It isn't about game or flirting. It's about action. I know how to get my girl going- Wan: Yangchen knows how to get Kavik going too! Yangchen: SHut UP, Wan! .......Yeah I know how to get Kavik going too, blow steam in his ear, fling him off a bison, what's your point????? Korra: Wait, fling him off a-? Kyoshi: Oh no no, Yangchen. That's not what I mean. You see, I'm probably going to go down in history as "World's best daughter-in-law." Whenever I sincerely talk about how I'm going to take care of Rangi or Hei-Ran, and Rangi melts into a literal puddle at my feet. Korra: So, like, you're amazing moral character is how you flirt? Kyoshi: No, it's not flirting. It's doing. Actions. Like I said before, they like me for who I am. And maybe because I have a good smile too. Kuruk: Being good looking does help. Yangchen: Ugh, where are you going with this? Kyoshi: I'm getting to it. What I want to say is, 'What's so great about having game, when the real measure should be the results?' Yangchen: *rolls eyes* 'Results.' Please, Kyoshi. We all know I had Kavik wrapped around my finger. Kyoshi: So you got with him? Yangchen: I-well uh- Kyoshi: Tell me, Yangchen. Which one of us actually GOT their boo in the end? Hm? Yangchen: .......... Kyoshi: Only actions and outcomes matter, Yangchen. What's so great about your "game" if you can't even "win"? Wan: I haven't seen a burn this severe since that volcano took out Roku. O-O Voice on the phone: 911, what's you're emergency? Korra, on the phone: I just witnessed a murder! I mean both parties are already dead-can the dead die twice?????

[circusk]

just spent HOURSS!!!!! of my day . making fop family tree. its got 63 people rn uhmmm yeah

i think i have everyone . maybeee missing a cousin or two idk

[trashcanwithsprinkles]

in jadeite do the characters still have the same eyes? like hutao with her flowery eyes and zhongli with his....serpent-like? ones

genuinely good question, i haven't really stopped to think about it? because in genshin as far as i know, the only eyes that really matter in terms of- what they look like? are the khaenri'ah star eyes. so like- we have people with wild-ass eyes but they never seem to factor in to the overarching lore of the game. with the exception of childe i guess? but his' are more like- they matter because he's an outlier (doesn't have the little anime shine), not because he has a particular shape in them.

also ngl i think you might be missremembering zhongli's eyes thanks in no small part i assume to fanon, bc i would not describe that man's eyes as serpent-like. neuvillette's? i can get behind. baizhu's and chongyun's? even more than neuvillette's. maybe even shinobu's but given her mask i guess hers are supposed to be more cat-like. but zhongli's...? like yes they're among the more non-normal eyes of the cast, but like- these:

next to these:

you see what i mean?

like not to get tinfoil hat on you but if i had to pick another character with eyes like zhongli's i would not pick the serpent men, but rather

you know? like they're the same shape, the colors are just inverted in the sense that her eyes are lighter with darker marks while zhongli's are darker with lighter marks, but other than that: rhombus in the middle with a ring around it. not sure there's any other character with eyes like those. xiao's look the most similar but on closer inspection he just has a semi-circle, not a full ring. so uh 🤷‍♂️

anyway- sorry about the tangent. i guess my answer to the actual question would be- maybe? i guess we can keep the eyes as they are, but just treat them the same way genshin seems to treat them. as in- most eye shapes are nothing more than a nod to the character's unique quirks rather than teyvat lore-relevant. again, teyvat lore-relevant i think is only the khaenri'ah star, maybe childe's eyes, and i guess baizhu's technically? and maybe neuvillette's. oh and arlecchino's of course. and i guess alhaitham can sit on the ?????? corner. but other than that hu tao having flowers isn't because of some long lost bloodline, but because she has plum (?) flower motifs. i think (inb4 it is about some long-lost bloodline lmao). you get what i mean? same goes for other characters with unique eyes. nahida has the four-leaf sigil bc she's connected to sumeru and the akasha and all that. kokomi has weird eyes because she's a fish. dori has an X in her eyes because money shines. like their eyes are unique but they don't have worldwide lore connotations the way the others seem to do. faruzan maybe has her eyes like that because she was stuck in some ruins for 100 years. i haven't read candace's lore but her golden eye can see stuff?? maybe she's lore-relevant too idk

so i guess bottom line is the people in this reality just have wild-ass eyes sometimes and it's no different than finding someone with albinism 🤷‍♂️ like you just go huh. neat. you're a genetic minority. anyway, and move on.

TL;DR: yeah the eyes are the same bc the only wacky eye-shapes that seem to REALLY matter in genshin's overarching lore are the khaenri'ah star ones, so i'm just not gonna bother w it.

if that bothers you we can also just say that they all have normal human-shaped eyes and keep the same color. like i guess what i'm trying to say is that only the khaenri'ah star will matter in the fic? and even then i'm unsure if it will matter all that much. so really whether hu tao has flowers in her eyes or not is irrelevant (using her as an example, but this applies to the others)

[starcurtain]

So what I'm getting from Fontaine is...

Vishaps, Enkanomiya, the Primordial Sea (probably): Behold, we have achieved perfection, the pinnacle of bathysmal vishap evolution!

All of Fontaine (actually): You fucked up a perfectly good dragon is what you did. Look at it, it's got anxiety!

[bhaalsdeepbat]

imo the thing about ascended astarion is that he does love his LI, but he no longer shows it in any meaningful way. everything he does is out of fear and he thinks he's performing a show of love, but has his vulnerability locked behind so many layers of a role he's playing. He's using this role as a layer of separation to prevent him from feeling weak and vulnerable in the way love makes him feel while also manipulating the LI into complacency so they don't leave him before the tadpoles are dealt with.

he can feel that flicker of what once was, but it's accompanied by feeling small and weak. the ways he doles out affection affirms that he is none of those things. so, no. not showing love, but showing how he's the one in control. like he tells araj, he needs people to know who owns who, now.

it comes back to "I can be yours, and you can be all mine. If only for the night," but instead of the the equal partnership that springs from the Graveyard Scene where they vow to be each other's for as long as the other will love them, accepting the uncertainty of that future because of the abundance of joy living a life worth living can bring when lived together, Astarion has to establish ownership over his LI.

He owns them, body, heart, and soul, but the only piece of him his LI has is the piece that no longer exists. the piece of him that was the sweet, vulnerable Spawn who was starting to see kindness in the world where it once was cold and unwelcoming.

he loves them, but it's locked up so deep, all he can feel is a flicker of remembrance, like he lost something.

[olliepurples]

mdarc chapter 4 spoilers (tw negative)

i'm a couple of doors into the mystery labyrinth, and it's getting a little annoying having shinigami and yuma go "but how could this have happened? who could have done this?" when i literally knew it was yakou as soon as the game told me that the poison had a delay. this is so silly like "how could anyone have got past this, they would have died in thirty minutes!" ok! narrow your suspect pool to people who die in the next thirty minutes then! damn!!!

[discjude]

whatever afterlife exists in SGE must be the funniest shit ever imagine being some Jaunt Jolie peasant who gets a little too in the way of the Snake and dying only to see The Literal School Master cheering the Snake on. Imagine dying of like cholera or something and taking a little Ghost Vacation to Camelot and seeing the King of Camelot - who's dead, apparently - beating the shit out of some random other boy with weird eyes. imagine how flesh and blood went down. Do you think they all had popcorn for that

[redgoldblue]

i'm. sobbing [x]