#so i'm trying to not just dislike a character because they're shitty or they annoy me

[kalinara]

So recent posts have got me thinking about the Throuple, and how I personally feel about it. And I'll be honest. I dislike it and I love it.

I dislike it because, ultimately, there really isn't much there. A couple of suggestive panels, a house schematic, one scene of expressed attraction between the guys, one scene that seems really heavily implied that they'd intended to go to bed together (I'll post that later, it's from early X-Force and it's pretty suggestive, IMO), and a few cameos in pride issues.

If Marvel was advertising this relationship, I'd call it queer-baiting at best.

But I always kind of wonder about the background of things. And I tend to assume that the Throuple was never intended to be a thing by the suits and higher ups. I think maybe a few creative types kept slipping things under the radar.

It does mean, unfortunately, that, in terms of actual story or emotional development, it's lacking. I mean, look, biased Scott fan that I am, I would have REALLY liked to see Logan apologize for basically everything AvX onward before those two characters hopped into bed together. I'd like to see Jean get to have opinions about everything that happened while she was gone (many things that she'd now remember from her younger self's point of view), before that happened too. These are characters with a lot of history.

So in terms of execution, the Throuple is a fizzle. (Hell, even the Jean/Logan side barely got off the ground. Some bits where she kept him alive when he was trying to save Xavier through time - which she'd have done even if he were just a friend. And one sex scene in the hot springs. That really feels like a satisfying culmination of decades of yearning. If I were a Jean/Logan fan, honestly, I'd probably feel cheated.)

But you know, I do love it for other reasons. Because however shitty the execution, the IDEA is firmly planted and that idea isn't going away.

All you have to do is go on reddit or tiktok and see anytime one of those toxic masculinity fanboys starts bitching about how Logan is 100% straight "blah blah woke agenda", and you get at least three people jabbing back "yeah, except on the moon".

And that's the genius of it. Because NO one likes those particular fans. And so even people who are utterly indifferent to the idea of the Throuple. Even folks who dislike the execution are very pleased to troll that hypothetical dude at every chance.

Marvel can say what they want. Brevoort (whether he believes it or is just Marvel's spokesperson) can say what he wants. The fact that the annoying fanboys go "I'm so glad he didn't walk back his denial and cater to the wake agenda" are just admitting that there's something TO deny.

I'll be honest, I suspect the issue is Logan's fanbase. It's the largest by far and Marvel doesn't want to alienate the straight men in the crowd. But the thing is, they're aging out. And younger generations of fans are more openly queer than we are, and definitely more than our parents were. This is going to be a non-issue. Especially when the new generations start running the asylum.

It'll take a long time, of course, and there'll be a lot of bullshit before then. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle. The idea is out there. And like Kitty, Rachel, Betsy, Bobby, Mystique and Destiny, Rictor and Shatterstar, EVENTUALLY we'll get to the point where Marvel admits what we all know. (And we knew for a while. The Throuple didn't come out of nowhere.)

Marvel's most famous and popular X-Men character is queer.

More than half of the Original X-Men, that earliest dream that creators never seem to be able to stop revisiting, are queer*.

The flag ship pairing of the X-Men involves a woman and a man who are queer*.

That's pretty awesome.

(*I know technically we're talking about an MMF throuple and it doesn't rule out Jean being straight, but let's be honest here. Jean's got more than enough suggestive interaction with Storm, Emma, Lorna and Wanda to make a strong enough case for bisexuality in her own right.)

[victimsofyaoipoll]

Round 3

Propaganda Under Cut

Sharon Carter

Sharon is portrayed as a conniving, meddling bitch/villain in fics. Multiple authors flat-out say that they need someone to be the bitch or villain in their fics and they used Sharon. She got so much hatred based on Steve kissing her in Civil War in 2016 that Marvel Studios changed its entire plan for multiple characters. This is despite how Sharon has been Steve's main love interest in the comics since December 9, 1965. Despite being off and on for decades (three of Steve's other love interests were while she was supposedly dead, with at least one writer saying they only created the love interest because Sharon was dead at the time)

When she first appeared she was unfairly treated by fans for "getting in the way" of the Steve Rogers/Bucky Barnes ship. A shame because she's a really good character. I'd talk more about how unfairly Sharon, and her actress Emily VanCamp, have been treated by the fanbase and the creators, but that's a different story.

She and Steve Rogers were meant to have a romantic relationship, but the entire fandom and many Stucky fans dislike her because it wasn’t a good ship. I think she isn’t the best but she doesn’t deserve so much hate

Elizabeth Midford

She started as just a cutie fiancée trying her best, turns out she's also a swordfighting genius, very under pressure to perform feminity in the Victorian Rose type of way. Fandom crucifies her bc she's Ciel's fiancée and they want him to be with his butler, Sebastian, the demon he sold his soul to for revenge

anime was a shitty canon divergent adaptation that butchered her character down to her "cutesy silly girly" persona, which obviously made the 2008 anime fans hate her with a passion (nothing wrong w being girly I'm just saying the adaptation made her super one dimensional) anyways fujoshis used to treat her as a villain because she's the fiance of Ciel,, who as u might know already was HEAVILY shipped with his butler, Sebastian back then (now it's kinda looked badly upon, nice tbh that ship sucks ass xD) She's a bit similar to Misa Amane from death note in the way she was treated. (Like an obstacle the yaoi ship must overcome rather than a person)

she's my silly little rabbit! i could gush about her character but i'll keep it short and just say that she's really well written and one of the best characters in the series. anyways she's ciel's fiance and she's like, rightfully annoying as any other 13 yr old girl would be but the fanbase fucking crucified her for even existing. she gets demonized for being 'annoying', but then ciel gets yaoishipped with an even more annoying guy. there is 100% an argument that lizzie/ciel is weird bc they're cousins (i personally don't ship it) but that falls flat when her detractors then ship the 13 yr old ciel with an eons old demon who Canonically looks like his father. the anime also never reached her main character development until years after its peak and that was only in a movie, so she really got the bad end of the stick here. not me though i had a giant crush on her when i was 12

[dangerpronebuddie]

At first I was cool multi shipping because I'm fine with casual multishipping but then the bucktommys got annoying and now I want them to breakup not just because I ship buddies as an endgame ship and because I felt like that's where the plot was headed but also out of sheer spite like even if I didn't think buddies would go canon I'd want them breaking up by any means necessarily because those shippers don't deserve to win I don't even want them to break up for some neutral mature reason they deserve to suffer more than that

I was cool with it at first too, I will admit that. I was riding on the high of bi Buck and thought a short term ship would be kinda neat.

But no.

No no no.

I've never seen anything like this. I have friends who ship both and they're completely chill about it and don't mind that I despise it. But the majority of them are honestly out of their minds. I've never seen so many shitty, racist, vile (and downright just bad) takes in my life. Their entire ship is riding on headcanons, and if you disagree with one, you're attacked for it! They try to rewrite canon and take it as gospel. They worship the ground Tommy/ Lou walks on (despite both being racist assholes with no growth or change to be found). They don't know the characters and they don't care.

What has pissed me off more than anything is the fact they attack the actors and other fans. It's not their fault. BT shippers decided there was more than there actually is, thanks to Lou exploiting them for money and fueling their ideas. I could go on for AGES, honey. And it's sad.

I am all for "multi shipping" (such a bizarre thing anyway, I didn't know we had to classify whether or not we enjoyed more than one couple 🙄 but I digress). Ship and let ship, but when you turn to calling fans homophobic for disliking a literal racist, a line has to be drawn.

I love buddie, and I want it so bad, and it seems to be the natural progression of the plot, but I'm letting whatever happen happen. I'm not going to attack actors and writers and other fans when I don't immediately get my way.

As for the breakup, I understand your want for it to be bad. The petty in me would feel extremely vindicated. I think, with Buck's storyline focusing on Gerrard right now and the fact Tommy shows no interest in supporting Buck through it all (even before Captain Bigot took over), I see it all tying in somehow. But that's another conversation entirely.

[geddy-leesbian]

I don't care if you like a villain and want to pretend they've never done anything bad, just don't pretend it so hard you start actually believing it and need people to explain to you why they hate a villain

I've got a huge soft spot for Alfred Ashford and I would never send anyone an ask saying "why do you hate alfred ashford :/" because I would use my brain and determine they probably hate Alfred Ashford because of the whole being a fucked up guy running a concentration camp and hunting people for sport and elaborately torturing people and also the fact the people he hunts for sport include one very beloved character and he just generally comes across as a creepy weirdo

if I saw someone hating on him I'd think "yeah sure he did [all that stuff I listed] but I don't care he's my silly little guy and probably wouldn't have done it if he wasn't born into a fucked up family that groomed him into being like that" and then proceed to keep that in my thoughts only and just scroll past the post because who gives a shit man. Alfred did awful things that's an objective fact I can't argue with, and I also can't judge someone for thinking they're awful enough that the mitigating circumstances shouldn't apply because who fucking cares he's a fictional character. irl I like to see the good in people and think the vast majority of people can change and almost no one is completely beyond redemption (not that anyone is owed forgiveness either tho, I have people I will never forgive or let back into my life again, I just don't think anyone should be forever punished on a wider scale if that makes any sense) and thinking otherwise is actively harmful but for FICTIONAL CHARACTERS who cares man. someone else hating Alfred and thinking he's evil and beyond redemption isn't harming anyone in the real world. and me thinking 𝚔𝚛𝚊𝚞𝚜𝚎𝚛 is horrible and inherently shitty and beyond redemption also isn't incompatible with my beliefs because bitch ain't real. he's a character intentionally written to be shitty and not have any sort of redemption, the real world is different because there isn't someone pulling the strings and creating people that are inherently shitty and will never be anything else because they're custom tailored to fulfill a narrative role.

hating a villain should not be controversial someone disliking a villain that you like is not a personal attack on you and is not a confusing viewpoint that needs elaboration. (I don't think that liking a villain should be controversial either for the record but that ain't what this post is about. I've never in my life gotten shit for liking a villain but disliking one villain has gotten me shit on multiple occasions like it's not even confusing??)

and the adderall has definitely worn off I'm going full barely cohesive rambles one more thought before bed:

I mean if someone was actively making Alfred content on a regular basis but made statements about hating Alfred and thinking he has no redeemable qualities and only works as a villain? I wouldn't be mad or try to pick a fight, I'd just be happy anyone was giving him attention and wouldn't do anything that might risk upsetting them and make them not want to make that content anymore. I'd just reblog it and be happy and wouldn't at all even feel a tiny bit attacked because I like Alfred and they don't, let alone interact with them super defensively. don't bite the hand that feeds and all that yknow. I'm still going to keep making 𝚔𝚛𝚊𝚞𝚜𝚎𝚛 content because he's compelling and I'm thick skinned enough that while catching shit definitely annoys the hell out of me, I'm not deeply affected or anything, but it would sure suck for these people if I had thinner skin in this area and was upset enough to just stop posting about 𝚔𝚛𝚊𝚞𝚜𝚎𝚛 entirely because it's literally the only topic that gets me shit on a regular basis lol.

[itsryuworld]

is this heesu in class 2 or chanyoung in class 2?

Ugh, I'm saying this as a webtoon fan, really. I know a lot of people is annoyed with this kind of opinions, but aren't we allowed to dislike the series if is not what we expected? We waited for 3 years yet they gave us a hetero k-drama, I mean, I don't hate het couples or whatever, but this isn't a queer show, it's suppose to be BL series. This is Heesu's story, but sometimes he's the secondary character of his own story. I don't really care what people say, I don't wanna see a BG couple taking more screentime than Heesu. This is a BL webtoon, there's nothing hetero about it.

If you wanted to tell that kind of story, you should've done a proper k-drama. Why do we have to see a k-drama if we want a BL series? Seriously, it's annoying. They should had put Sunwoo and Dahm instead of Chanyoung and Jiyu romance (that doesn't even exist in webtoon). I don't mind a hetero couple as a second couple, but I don't want to see them more than the BL couple, please. Sometimes they focus a lot in Chanyoung's problems and honestly I DON'T CARE. It's so boring, does anyone enjoy this plot of him playing tennis non-stop? He's a shitty friend too, in webtoon he was really nice to Heesu and funny, but here… god, I don't wanna see him.

I'm so disappointed with this series, why do they have to make it hetero? Webtoon is so cute, so sweet and romantic, it could've be one of the best BL this year but every new episode seems off. Some of you might think "yeah, seems right that the hetero couple gets together first" but we have 6 episodes now and Heesu and Seungwoon are just… there. Even if you saw them having this sweet little moments isn't enough. This story it's about them, then why?

They changed the webtoon storyline, like, a lot. Completely. They just took their names and that's all. I do like some spots of it, but I was expecting some scenes of the webtoon and they changed everything. I'm so tired of this. I'm only watching because I love Heesu and Seungwon so much and waited for them for 3 years. The hetero storyline is so boring, I'm sorry, I don't hate hetero couples, and I do love Chanyoung and Jiyu in webtoon, but in the series they're so boring to me. If they had just followed the original plot I would've LOVE to see Chanyoung and Jiyu falling in love while therey're trying to get Seungwon and Heesu together. Some kid of enemies-to-lovers plot, I think? They're so funny in webtoon, really, but I don't want to see them in the series at all.

I'm still annoyed with the last episode. Why did they put Chanyoung and Jiyu being clingy and hugging on the bus? In webtoon they travel with the friends group and Heesu was traveling on Seungwon's lap. At this point Heesu was already in love with Seungwon. They even shifted out the scene when Seungwon read the love poem and when Heesu slept at Seungwon's. Heesu haven't meet Seungwon's moms yet. I hate how they managed CHY/Jiyu storyline here because messed up the main couple story.

Jiyu and him used the trip to get Seungwon and Heesu together, then Heesu asked Jiyu if he likes Seungwon and she says no. Heesu was happy. That doesn't make sense now because Chanyoung told Heesu he's dating Jiyu. I hate it. I LOVED that things in webtoon, but they ruined it. Thank you. We didn't see when they went to bufet and Chanyoung finds out Seungwon likes Heesu and decided to help them. It's to late now. Chanyoung doesn't care about Heesu at this point, uh? Did he knew about Heesu feelings for him? Chanyoung has been acting rude towards him, not like a good friend he is in webtoon. Jiyu ask him to keep it a secret, but he told Heesu. I don't like Jiyu here either, forcing Seungwon to confess. WDYM, girl? He asked you that favor before you start dating Chanyoung.

Maybe it's an unpopular opinion but I don't hate Heesu here. I understand him, and I read the webtoon I know how and when he starts develop feelings for Seungwon, but the fact they hurried the hetero couple together actually ruined this plot. Chanyoung dated girls because he wanted to Heesu stop loving him, and helps Seungwon because he already knew about him and noticed Heesu starts to spend a lot of time with him. In the series, Chanyoung doesn't even talk to Seungwon, he was jealous because of Jiyu ¿? Ugh, c'mon. I never knew I could hate Chanyoung this much. Now, my theory is: Chanyoung is carrot juice anon. At least, that would be nice, I guess. Maybe he did knew about Seungwon's feelings and did that to give him a push to get close to Heesu. I don't know, but I'm holding on it. I just hate how they changed the story, I was excited to see a lot of scenes on live action, but there's none here. Alright, then.

Also, I hope Seungwon doesn't confess next episode. I really, really, really want they went as the webtoon version and make Heesu confess first. Don't take that away from me, please. I wanna see Heesu daydreaming and being in love with Seungwon before any of them confess. Kim Seungwon is my favourite character, honestly. I love him so much. He's been chasing Heesu long enough, I want to see Heesu pining for him too. Although I'm sad and disappointed (and I don't think that will change no matter what), I'm still rooting for them. This is Seungwon and Heesu's story, is it much to ask to give them the spotlight? I don't know how they're gonna put everything in this last 4 episodes, so I guess they won't. I'm ready to see a whole different story, but I'm annoyed too. I don't know why they did this, why not a proper BL series?

They never will make me hate Seung Won and Heesu, but please please please skipped Chanyoung and Jiyu romance for the last 4 episodes. I wanna see Seungwon and Heesu romance, their honeymoon and their friends trying to avoid them to be discovered at school. There's so much webtoon material that was awfully wasted, at least I hope they give them a great romance at the end. But, I hope they don't get together just at the very end, tho.

They will never make me love Chanyoung series version. If there's one Chanyoung series version hater, that's me. And if there's a Seungwon's lover here, yes, that's me. Sorry for my long speech. I wanted to elaborate because I'm still mad about this series. God, was it so hard to do it like the webtoon? Sending love to Ahn Jiho and Lee Sangjun, they did it amazing!

[pupmkincake2000]

In regards to your Gavin post: I didnt like him until after I saw Evolution. It was the writers having him grow as a person and see androids as people, much like Hank, that made me finally like him instead of being annoyed by his presence. So its actually fandom and seeing what he COULD be with some introspection and work, opposed to what is actually is, that changed my opinion on the character

Evolution is just a bad written fanfic. And the Gavin in it is a bad written fanon, if you prefer a fanon over canon just because some people find Gavin attractive or see themselves in Gavin and think he deserves a redemption arc, good for you, but for me he always will be an overrated jerk. And fandom sees him like that just because he is conventionally attractive and white, if it weren't for that, or if he were a woman (like... a lot of Gavin lovers hate North but if she were a guy she'd be loved the same way he is or maybe even more), or older, I'm sure he wouldn't be so loved. If a fanon can change your opinion on the character, then maybe you never had one before?

Because Gavin doesn't have a single good quality in canon, and people stubbornly ignore it. But it wasn't Gavin himself who made me dislike him so much. It was mostly his fans who always compare him to Hank and insist that Gavin's behavior in the game is 100% justified and that everything he does or says is also 100% right, and that he was even right to insult a grieving father. And to do this, they change his character so much that he ceases to be recognizable. If people cannot accept the fact that a character has flaws, then they do not like the character. His actions are bizarre and laughable.

For example, Gavin doesn’t call Hank out for his alcoholism… he makes a very shitty comment about how it’s starting to stink of booze in the room Hank is in. The delivery of the line is not intended as a “buck up and sort out your shit, hank” but obviously as a way to be mean. It has bully written all over it. And it's sad people think he can be a better person.

You have your right to like his fanon self, but the thing is it is only a fanon thing, nothing beyond that. If Kara and Markus were both white dudes they would most likely be seeing the same level of attention that Gavin is. He was not meant to nor intended to be humanized, he's a bully and nuisance. And this pisses me off so much that people can humanize and try to find ways to make a literally bad person and a corrupt cop likable or empathetic. But then it also comes back down to the fact that such people don't even see androids as alive at all. No matter what they ship.

It's not even them humanizing him in a way that gives him depth but also sees him as a racist and a threat to androids, they don't humanize him to make him a better character or a better antagonist or to make him more rounded out. Because you can have flawed characters who are also just shit people, you can have well-rounded characters and they're still shit people. In media, people need to not try to redeem every character they see and every antagonist, why would you want to sympathize or empathize with a guy like him who spends the time in the interrogation room watching Chris (who in this movie is mostly used for humor) struggle to move the android, and then berates him without lifting a finger to help while yelling and swearing at Connor who is just trying to advise them? He escalated the situation for no reason. Gavin is trigger happy, and that is not a good thing.

 So, it’s not in-game character that is shown in the movie, it’s a totally separate one. Only thing that’s left there of Gavin’s character is maybe a cursing style, all else of his qualities that defined him in the game are not there.

[hannigramislife]

so i have a question that i swear is meant with complete sincerity (i just want to preface that because i know some people send shitty passive aggressive asks and i dont wanna be misunderstood).

I dislike dazai a lot and for most of the same reasons that you do but i also really dont like jgy for basically all the same reasons. I just know you're a big jgy fan but you really hate dazai and i was wondering how you reconcile those feelings? i assume we just have different interpretations of jgy (mdzs is a vast piece of media and there's a lot of different ways to interpret each character) but i've just been getting more and more curious so i wanted to ask. to be clear, i think it's totally okay to like jgy! the same way i think its okay for dazai fans to like dazai, they're just fictional characters. so this is in no meant as an attack or an 'ah ha!' moment. i just sort of don't understand liking one character and not the other when to me, all of their worst traits are the same and jgy has actually done far worse things than dazai (like murdering his own son)

i hope my ask isnt upsetting at all. you mentioned before liking to discuss meta so i really just want to introduce a conversation and maybe understand your perspective a bit better

Firstly, thank you so much for your polite ask!

I just wanna clear something up – I am not a Jgy fan XD. I see where one might think that, but I can guarantee you, I wanted him dead as fuck and I do not condone his atrocities.

Now, I do have some friends who have talked to me about Jgy, and they're Xiyao and Nieyao fans, respectively, so by talking with them, I have come to understand better some parts of Jgy's character, which have made me more forgiving towards some of his actions. Emphasis on some. Like you said, he and Dazai share the same annoying/frustrating traits, like the fact that they're lying liars 😊

I do appreciate Jgy as a character much more than I do Dazai though, that is correct, and I guess it's because of their narrative roles. Jgy has a very solid and interesting position in mdzs – in a world where social standing is such an important part of the story, the genius, bastard son of one of the wealthiest clans is constantly kicked down (lol couldn't resist), because the system has decided he doesn't deserve the same power as his half-brother, simply because of his birth situation.

And the narrative stays true to it! Time and time again, he is shut down, even when he goes to Lanling with Nie Mingjue's recommendation letter, even when he kills Wen Ruohen, even when he is married to secure his status, fate has fucked him over. It's like trying to watch Icarus reach the sun because he feels he is entitled to it.

Plus, I'm a huge Nieyao fan XD in a "they could have totally gotten married and lived happily ever after, but nooo; some of us have daddy issues *glares at jgy*"

So, this is the reason my posts have stopped being so antagonistic to Jgy, as I like to live in a delusional world where they've reincarnated in the modern world, jgy has some morals, and 3zun is happy 😇

Now, Dazai, on the other hand, I simply can't stand him. Nothing about his story or personality makes me go even as far as "yes, and?" I don't care for him as a character (though I get how he is appealing to people). I don't understand his actions 90% of the time. Plus, his actions are also frustrating and make me mad.

Like when Chuuya used corruption and he was like, "take me back at the place," and Dazai just left his ass there. "Oh, but that's their dynamic," yes, well, it annoys me. Plus, his whole thing with Akutagawa drives me up a wall because how dare you??? Motherfucker??? His first words to Akutagawa after 4 years live in my head rent-free because you could have shown that you became a better person, but nope. Still a dick. "Oh, he did that to set up the rivalry with Atsushi," you know how Beast Dazai did that? Set them up on a date. Boom. Take notes.

I also personally think Dazai either doesn't get Akutagawa fr, or he simply doesn't care to do so because Akutagawa flourishes with encouragement, it's actually sort of insane to see. Anyways. Went on a tangent there.

So yeah, Dazai is annoying, his personality sucks, he's a manipulative bastard, and he is mean to my baby :(

[sapphic-agent]

i really appreciate your anti bakugo posts, because i don't like him. and people saying he misunderstood like??? he doesn't need to take 300+ chapters to give a half-assed apology I'm in another fandom where there is a character extremely like bakugo, and his stans treat him the same when in reality that character is the worst. Like, they treat him as short of misunderstood saint and underdog when he isn't. but the difference is how the writers treat them in canon; while Hori is trying to make Bakugo looks more likable with his plot armor and the fact that he only faces a slap on the wrist on his horrible actions.

while the other writer is like: Nha. He got the unhappy ending he deserves and he and the MC will not reconcile and he gets no bitchs. while the MC gets his happy ending with the person he loves and travels the world. like that character was so bad that they needed to soften him in lots of the adaptions; because he was that bad in the story narrative. both of them wrote about extremely angry characters, but the way that they did them is extremely different in the narrative of the story. like as someone with anger issues, since i was a toddler, the why fandom says that "he angry character it isn't his fault." is making me unironically mad. like; i can say lots of things in angry fits but i apologize like immediately after i calm down. taking accountability and facing consequences for your own actions is,,, suppose to be normal. sorry for the rant. I'm tired of my friend telling me that bakugo is misunderstood character (we have been going on it since the 1st session was released so like... 5 years)

Hi there, I'm so glad you like my posts!

The fandom certainly does victimize Bakugou a lot, doesn't it? People will point fingers literally everywhere else: his mother, his teachers, society, etc. But never towards Bakugou himself. Never holding him accountable for his own actions. One time when discussing with someone, they tried to tell me that Bakugou is aware that what he does to Izuku is wrong...

Okay? Then why doesn't he stop? That isn't the defense they think it is.

I think a great example of how to handle a character like this is what they do in Bojack Horseman. Bojack had a shitty childhood too with parents who were actually abusive. But the show stresses the fact that while his childhood is a reason for his actions, they are not an excuse. He also doesn't get a happy ending. He lost everything he ever had that was important to him: the TV show that made him famous, his money, his house, his close relationships- all of it.

Now obviously nothing Bakugou did was as bad as Bojack. And I don't necessarily think that (narratively speaking) he should have been expelled or had his life ruined. He was still a kid after all and I don't think he was ever at any point irredeemable.

But Bakugou never had to work hard to redeem himself, people just... let him. Ignored his behavior and the way he treated everyone (not just Izuku). I've said before that he continued to treat everyone like shit and got away for it because of comedy which severely undermined Horikoshi's attempt at redeeming him. This could have easily been rectified by giving Bakugou a moment of clarity whenever he did this. Even if it wasn't outright "sorry" it could have been an internal monologue where he shows regret for lashing out. It would not only make it clear that he's actively trying to be better even if he doesn't change immediately, it would have made him way more realistic.

I, personally, don't mind anger issues and his anger isn't why I dislike him. I mean, it can be annoying as hell but that isn't why I think he's a bad character. I've liked a ton of characters with anger issues (I have freaking Santana Lopez in my pfp lolz) and as long as they're well-written I've never had a problem.

[dez-wade]

i just auto block anyone with bad faith takes about characters they’ve clearly never watched. so much of egg discourse can be summed up as someone saying “i know they’re just kids but *proceeds to criticize normal child behaviors*”. if anything people should feel sorry for bad being stuck with the accountant job. fit gets to act tough, pac gets to drive trains, foolish gets to pretend he’s a creature, bad gets an office job. that last bit is a joke but seriously it such a normal thing for little kids to assign silly roles like that and it means that sunny really liked him.

also in a meta sense i think the eggs are given some potentially fixable flaws on purpose so the parents can work through it with them. hating them for that is a little unfair. sunny isn’t even the first to dislike the idea of being poor. if you actually watch them you can see they don’t want anyone else to be poor either so she gives away some diamonds every day. she’s a sweet kid but you only see the full extent if you watch tubbo

I think after QSMP started I blocked more than 1k people on Twitter. I'm not picky at all when it comes to this, I silence a lot of words as well. Has a shitty take? I'm not only blocking you, I'm blocking all people that liked that tweet as well. Sadly it's impossible to get rid of all the annoying ones, it's like a hydra. You cut a head, two are born in its place.

I don't even try to defend Sunny anymore when I see the bad takes because they already have a made up image of her in their heads and they won't be listening.

Sunny despite her "material girl" side is the sweetest and kindest egg. She doesn't like "poor people" but she actually never treated them bad? Like, she thought Empanada was poor so she gave her a bunch of diamonds and still considers her her bestie. Empanada loves Sunny as well.

Genuinely that's the only time I remember Sunny actually being "they're poor..." It was with Em/Nikki and a bit with Em/Bagi. I know classicism is an awful thing, but do you really need to take it seriously when it comes from a Minecraft egg RPing as a kid?

And I'm not even touching the people genuinely mad at Sunny calling Foolish her pet. That's the people who are far too gone and need to touch some grass, see real kids. Real people. Stay out of the internet for a week and remember what real life is.

[rizzulusarcturizz]

yo i can't reply to your comment OP blocked me lol, but i just wanted to say sorry if my comment was too aggressive but i'm just really annoyed at anyone who acts like family Must Mean Everything - especially since i've gotten shit so many times for not loving my own. if someone wants to hc sirius as not caring for regulus it doesn't mean that they're an only child - or that it's a bad hc, cause OP made it sound like it was (maybe they didn't mean it like this though). and tbh i don't feel like anyone is trying to be the authority about them, people just read this characters differently, we don't even have a clear canon of them so ofc that happens

anyways sorry again if it was badly said in my comment

I’m not offended, everyone is entitled to their own opinions! I was speaking to my personal experience and am the first to admit I can’t fathom the idea of not caring about my siblings. I’m not saying people are wrong if they have a different experience, I absolutely recognize the importance of setting healthy boundaries with family. There isn’t one universal relationship that all siblings experience; lots of people go no contact with family members because it’s the best thing they can do to protect themselves! That being said, what concerns me about some of the headcanons about the Black brothers having a bad relationship is that it can start to get in to the realm of victim blaming.

When we’re writing from the character’s POV Sirius/Regulus resenting the other brother for staying/leaving is completely understandable. That being said, when readers start to say one of them is terrible for trying to survive what is often interpreted as an abusive household you get in to a more grey zone. No one should ever be encouraging children to do something that they personally don’t feel safe doing in an abusive situation. This isn’t directed at you, I’m not suggesting that’s what you were saying, but my day job is a social worker so I feel entitled to say this.

I can’t speak for OP, obviously, but I think they were just speaking to a particular headcanon they dislike. I definitely have seen people wielding the idea of “canon” to justify only one idea of a character which I think is silly because we know very little canonically about these characters. I don’t think it was an aggressive comment but it is typically considered rude in fandom to comment on someone’s post calling them out for a personal fandom rant. Tumblr is a space to cultivate your own experience; if you feel like people are making you feel shitty for your personal family experience you should absolutely block away. This particular fandom is exhausting at the best of times given how much conflict there is; don’t feel like you have to consume content that makes you feel bad. Sibling relationships are not a one size fit all kind of thing and don’t let fandom make you think otherwise!

[bananonbinary]

okay. everyone here, stop. forget about ai, forget about art, forget about copyright and plagerism. forget the wider context of this debate and focus in on this argument.

explain to me, from the start, how "lazy and incompetent" are morally bad things that aren't rooted in ableism. use your fucking words, and spell it out, in clear terms, that you think that people who struggle to do a task are doing so out of some personal character flaw rather than admit that sometimes people have shit going on that isn't fucking about you.

I'm going to say the same thing that I said when everyone was talking shit about "weaponized incompetence."

It is not your place to judge what someone else is or is not capable of. it's just not. you have no fucking idea what invisible disabilities they might have. "no disability actually prevents-" yes it does. sit down and actually look around, everything you find easy is hard for someone.

even if they totally don't have any disabilities at all, it still doesn't actually matter if people get accommodations they don't "need." partially because attempting to gatekeep who "really" needs help can only hurt disabled people, but also because. it doesn't matter. it's not hurting anyone.

laziness, as a concept, is not fucking real. it's just not. laziness is a diagnoses that looks at outward behavior (this person isn't doing what I think they should), and refused to acknowledge the actual internal reasons behind it. it is inherently dehumanizing and enormously self-centered. people do not self-sabotage for no reason. I have never in my life met someone who isn't doing something that they want/need because they...what, want to annoy me personally? even people that i think are doing objectively wrong things, it's not because they're evil, or stupid, or lazy, it's because they have shit going on that they are handling poorly. "they simply aren't putting in any effort" is a symptom, not a fucking cause.

we are talking about art. funny pictures and words and whatever. there is no moral imperative to make it "correctly." you can dislike it, you can even argue against it ("its plagiarism," "its bad for the environment," whatever the hell you want), but don't fucking imply that people who do not meet YOUR threshold of protestant fucking work ethic are somehow morally inferior to you. if you're going to argue about something being bad, pick an argument that isn't fucking bootlicking. work ethic isnt real. hard work is not virtuous. easy things are not sowing evil in people's hearts or whatever the fuck.

"oh sky you're overreacting that's not what they meant-" the person above me literally said in clear terms that sentence structure, vocabulary, and expressing yourself "adequately" are skills only someone lazy and incompetent would struggle with. AND that it's "not fine" to not be able to cultivate those skills. just say you hate mentally disabled folks and go.

PS just. all of my complete rage at seeing the words "lazy and incompetent" aside, this just...isn't true at all. you guys are not doing yourselves any favors by IMAGINING what the beloathed ai artist is probably like and then shitting on him. talk to people that actually make ai art. ask them questions. some people are making shitty art, just like some traditional artists. but some of them actually are very skilled at what they do and spend a lot of time on it. just because it's *different* skills doesn't mean the skills aren't *there.* i certainly wouldn't even know where to begin with a project like @infiniteartmachine.

PS PS the original example of chatgpt and education is irrelevant to the discussion of ai art. like, yeah, asking a robot for the answers prevents you from learning, which is bad when you are explicitly trying to learn and build those skills in school. its not bad like, conceptually. the more equivalent argument would be that it'd be fucked up to submit ai art to a still life class. which is true, but not because AI Art Bad. its just grossly inappropriate and kinda ridiculous in that context.

[somegilmoreguy]

INTRO

You can call me Guy or Gil. Nearly 30. I grew up watching Gilmore Girls with my bio mom, I have extra opinions every time I re-watch.

I'm pretty equally critical of all the characters, though not particularly anti any of them. I even like all of them (barring Jason who's name I constantlly forget even after 20 or so years watching because I care so little about him) I have some personal issues with Christopher, though people I know tend to be obsessed with using him as a token to show why Lorelai is the most evil Gilmore Woman in a weird game I like to call the Gilmore Olympics. They're all just refusing to break generational curses.

I find liking or disliking characters morally neutral, I'm not going to debate why my faves are better than yours. I don't care if you don't like a character I love, or if you like one I hate, it doesn't affect me unless you try to make them out to be innocent babies then I think you're annoying. Just don't act like a freak when I talk about Tristian being a sex pest and Christopher being shitty to Rory.

Feel free to ask me fmk with the Gilmore guys.

Also I'm autistic so don't assume I'm being aggressive unless I'm using outright combative words. I occasionally use "tone indicators" which is a / and spelling out the tone of a phrase. Usually /joking, /neutral or /not mad.

No dni because I'm an adult who can control my own online experience. Who knows tv sitcoms aren't real but I'm very obviously a massive aro genderfucked guy fucker so if you have a problem with that you won't have fun here.

There will eventually be hyperlinks below. None yet though.

IMPORTANT: Gilmore Girls aired from 2000-2007. It will be problematic, that goes without saying. Television was a little different back then with what you could get away with. That doesn't make it okay but that was the norm. I may provide cultural context on posts occasionally but I wont be harping on its flaws too much. There is no need for me to beat a dead horse and say "I know this was problematic!" Everytime I speak. I will be mindful with trigger warnings though so I will still be trying to make this blog safer to navigate.

Episode by episode break down + seasons and series conclusions.

Character breakndowns

Character Headcanons

Babs Trans headcanon

[icharchivist]

i feel you on being sad about ff7r, i actually loved it at first because i personally really liked a lot of things about how they expanded the midgar section of the game and i wasn't thinking too hard about how some of the plot changes might remove a bit of nuance, or the sephiroth stuff, because i was just having so much fun while i was playing. but then the ending happened and the stuff with zack on top of it and i progressively got more annoyed because i just wanted it to essentially still be the original story??

i won't go on too much about it because i don't wanna leave an essay in your inbox but i just feel like, the original game is from 1997. it certainly has its own flaws and things that might make people not wanna play it, and it deserved to be recreated in beautiful 3d graphics and brought to the attention of a newer generation of gaming fans who may not have given ff7 a second look before. i wanted people who would get into this amazing story for the first time because of the remake to get the original story, more or less, and could've overlooked some flaws with how they expanded/changed it if it was still basically the same plot! i'm still gonna play every part of the remake but the whole stealth sequel thing they're doing is such a bummer to me lol, i've already talked to a lot of my friends and family about it and strongly recommended that they play the original game even if it might be a bit dated.

🥺🥺🤝🤝

i'm glad to hear about your experience with it and relieved it was a bit of the same.

oops a bit more under the cut (no spoilers this time though! just salt.)

Honestly i'm a bit on the same ground there because i did really enjoy playing the remake, it's fun, it's dynamic, there's new quests i think are really fun and great, and i was so hyped with seeing everyone else that i was willing to give even Sephiroth a shot. tbh originally i thought it might be just straight up hallucinations that aren't motivated by Sephiroth himself, just playing on Cloud's trauma, and while we lost the subtility, i am a sucker for exploring more of Cloud's trauma and complete collapsing "This Is Fine" mental health.

I was always a bit iffy about the Specters but i did go through the game mostly happy with what i got. But yeah ultimately it's really both the conclusion of the Specters storyline and the Zack scene that left me "huh." for a while.

And honestly my reactions when the game was over was just "okay i'm not. sure what to do with it but i'll guess we'll have to wait and see."

but it's sitting on it for a few years now that really make me go, actually, i really dislike it 😭

Originally i think i wanted to go easy on the game because i was buying onto the "well maybe it's too much to expect them to do a plot that is exactly the same as the OG, they keep talking about how they don't want to redo the game 101 and i guess that's fair", but now in retrospect i'm just "... but it was advertised to be a remake. And Yuffie's DLC can show very well how they can do new things adding to the game without making it a straight up sequel. and why is ff7 having a metacommentary plotline anyway" and that's when i started to get beef about it. Like, it's shitty to punish the fans for them being mad they got sold something under false adverticizing.

The Grief theme from the OG is something i care a lot about so this was one of the first thing i started to think in depth about, and since it also meant trying to make sense of "why do i want /this/ death to happen again" it eventually made me think of the others themes i cared about the remake would not be able to follow through properly and *there* you get how i am today, fully jaded about it.

Truly the "Sephiroth locked himself in the Nibelheim Mansion" character arc. Going in with curiosity and coming out with, actually, the more i read the more i think it's too bad.

As for the second paragraph: 100%!!! Like, i've been here for 15 years and i know for a fact that recommending the OG is always met with "oh but it looks so bad" (it's stylized not bad!!! oh well), or "i can't focus without voice acting" or "but the gameplay sounds boring", which is added to how all the others entries in the series have polished graphisms to start with (even if some are early polished 3D and have clunky animation as a result, it still holds up that the more "modern" player can get into it yaknow)

and idk when you compare it to like RE2 Remake that balances remaking the old game with new graphisms and everything and then changing a couple of things either to upgrade the story or to make it more coherent with later update in the franchise.... It's kinda like the type of things we expected i guess???

And i've seen people decide to get into ff7 for the first time by the remake itself. Some people are waiting to see where the plot is going to go via the remake. And while the remake can work as a sequel if you squint, idk how i think about it being the first contact someone has with the saga. (tho i don't know how much i can criticize on that level since i started with Crisis Core, then watched Advent Children, and then i read the wiki for the OG and only played the OG years later. So i have no lesson to give on the "but you're not experiencing the ff7 saga in the right order :(" front)

I have a friend who's a game dev who also only got into ff7 via the remake, and we discussed it last time we met because he knows i'm a huge fan and he wanted my opinion as a Veteran™. Turns out, while he liked a few things from the game, there was a lot out of it that he didn't like and couldn't figure out why (except a few things he called "idk what's going on but it sounds like Nomura's fuckery", you can feel the KH veteran out of him). And the more we discussed it the more he realized that a lot of the things he really didn't vibe with were truly Remake Only Decisions. Like he didn't understand on what level Sephiroth is meant to be a legendary Antagonist while all he does is just being a generic villain who shows up early just to go "heheh i'll do evil", or complained about super long and eventless dungeons that were really just, remake only stuff. and he hated the Specters bc he kept seeing it as breaking from the immersion of the story itself and their appearance seemed to be completely separated from the main story, as if it was another story running in parallelism to the one we're going through.

On the other hand when i started to tell him how it was in the OG for instance and especially the difference in Sephiroth's writing he was nodding along like "*that* i get why it was impactful". (and he's not the type to lie about his feelings on something just to go with the opinion someone is holding, convos got heated before lmao)

So yeah like. idk. I just kinda wish they were forward about it not being a remake. and not derailling the plot of the game itself in order to make a metatextual critism on how fans demands those type of remakes and refuses to accept deviations from it.

So i'm all with you on that too 😭 i'm just so sad bc i remember in 2015 when they announced the remake being so hyped and finally feeling like the OG would be more accessible to people whom i knew at the time didn't want to bother with such an old gem game. But now i feel like it's kinda made even more inaccessible since i feel like some people would stop at the remake itself bc it's already a game that is way way bigger than the OG ever was, and it's already time consuming to start with just to have the same story told in another medium.

When Ever Crisis was announced it was supposed to be a mobile game which would actually go through the whole plot of the saga, without changing anything, but with characters's chibi, and i remember the devs using EC as a shield there like "well if you want to play the OG in good quality tune in for EC". And i didn't keep up with EC's newest news but at the time it was announced it was going to release one chapter at a time for the duration of the server, which. is such a downgrade in every front and also means you won't be able to keep the game on the long term doesn't it? and after the fiasco that was First Soldier this is even more of a dubious take.

All in all it's just, genuinely such a cynical remake and commercial approach it just makes me so sad.

so yeah i'm 100% with you on this one :(

and same i'll play the games, esp since there are still good things into them, the gameplay is enjoyable, the explorations are so fun, it's nice to see the world of the OG being given this approach! For all the stuff i would complain about there's a lot i actively like about the remake, for instance i'm so so glad we get more Aerith & Tifa scenes where they show how close friends they become (bc god the eternal shipwar pinning the girls against one another in a petty catfight was the most annoying part of the pre-remake fandom, despite the OG only ever treating them as good friends, not rivals, so the fact the remake hammers in even more "tHEY'RE!!! FRIENDS!!! STOP IT!!!" is everything to me.).

And there's stuff i think are genuinely good like, actually exploring Sector 7 and making us care about the people in it much more than the OG could prepare us for it! muah very good no note.

It just genuinely sucks that the biggest problem with ff7r is the actual core of the plotline they're going with to drive the whole story onward. Everything else goes from fine to amazing. And then this thing doesn't work for me. but since it's the most important thing of the game, it undoes everything that made me hyped to start with.

so yeah :( fully 100% with you on this one. Guess we have to push our "play the 1997 game" agenda even harder now. rip :sob:

Thank you once again for sharing <333

[cicadagaze]

book 2 and 3 finished! :') agh.

[drdemonprince]

I won't be able to make it to the We Know The Devil re-play on Thursday but I watched the first one and it made me think of something I'm struggling to figure out in general. In the game when we didn't include/support someone sufficiently a bad thing happened to them so some of us felt bad for excluding them. But that character was kind of a mean bully in my opinion. I have some issues with this societal idea that you have to support people even when they're shitty to you and that something as innocuous as just avoiding a mean person means it's somehow your fault when something bad happens or they spiral or something. But then again I know people go through hard times and there should be some space for people to act kind of crappy to one another. I think maybe I'm overcompensating for being too much of a fawner but feeling guilty that maybe I'm now just heartless. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this and if you know of any rules of thumb, especially for those of us that have a hard time telling if someone's bad behavior is actually harmful and we need to get out, or if it's something we can absorb without damage and continue to still support them.

Well okay so first, I think individual players will have different reactions to Neptune because she is aggressive and mean-girlish and that's fine, but in-game the other two mains are written as enjoying her and finding relief in her certainty and directness. You don't have to like her, and you can choose to play the game however you like, but as far as the other characters' and their motivations go, they like her, and they want her around, and it's when they push past their own shame enough to face one another and show that care that they thrive.

the game's exploring the competing forces of isolation and shame versus belonging and acceptance, and I think for that to work and have emotional heft, the characters have to be difficult at times to love, and they can't love themselves. It's not particularly interesting to watch a bunch of perfect (or even just all gentle and nice) people choosing to look after one another. and that's not what exclusion and homophobia does to people. it makes some of us mother fuckers.

As for playing out in these dynamics in the real world, I believe that trying to find any kind of hard and fast rule about how things should be and then mapping that onto your own behavior with consistency is almost guaranteed to fail. Because there is a huge difference between what kinds of grace/acceptance/love/etc people ought to receive and deserve in the broad sense, and what you, personally, are in a position to provide or will get anything out of doing. that's kind of a huge theme in my work: we need to stop treating ourselves as symbolic moral agents, and instead as individual people in unique circumstances with our own limits.

So rather than asking some higher order question about whether another person deserves forgiveness or inclusion despite them having been a dick to you, or being annoying, or what have you, it makes a lot more sense to ask yourself if you even like being around the person or if being near them makes you feel terrible. Pushing yourself to spend time with someone you actively dislike because you have some ideological belief that the person should have close associates of some kind is just going to make you feel drained and resentful, and make the other person feel like a charity case or like they are being proselytized, and it won't end well, believe me.

Ultimately, Neptune gets included in things because her two friends like her -- they like her as she is, acid tongue and all -- and realizing that is part of what saves her. and all three of the characters. and that is how inclusion and acceptance probably ought to work in our real life friend groups as well. We have to actually enjoy being around people, feel comfortable navigating conflict with them, accept their faults and not have some agenda when interacting with them (whether that's of rehabilitation, or pity, or of feeling that we have met some ideological or moral goal by associating with them).

[jeweled-blue-eyes]

What do you think of MCs who literally abandon their goal for "love and family" when they're completely aware of the other party did to them/the original owner of the body? Like sometimes it feels like once they are reincarnated they start losing brain cells cuz Siyeon from Death is the only ending for the Villainess was aware that all of the male leads killed og!Penelope in previous routes and had every right to leave the game cause those people were worth it but when finally given the chance to leave after everything that happened She choose to stay because of Callisto.

And Athanasia finally ran away from her dad only to come back because she misses him? Ma'am did you forget what he did to og!athanasia. Also for your entire childhood you literally to had put a act so you wouldn't die by his hands and at what time was Claude a good parent. Never actually it was YOU putting effort into this father-daugther relationship while Claude just sat there. And you came back because you miss your dad who almost killed you when you were FIVE.

Sorry for going off but it literally pisses me when these girls have a valid reason to leave only to stay or came back because *resaons*.

MC forgiving her abusive love interest? I only like it if it's yandere level toxic and the narrator aknowledges that this is not a love story. MC forgiving her family? I don't like it. I generally dislike the trope where the MC forgives her abusive family even if the family was somewhat redeemable. This is why Beware of the Brothers or A Stepmother's Marchen didn't click for me.

Revenge will always be so much sweeter than forgiveness especially when the forgiveness is not hard earned and instead gets thrown after them for a basic act of kindness. I suppose it could be interesting to see a family repent for what they have done and suffer in equal measure to make up for the abuse they had inflicted on their child, but I have yet to see this kind of redemption in an Isekai. I'm also not sure if I would even enjoy it as I consider child abuse an unforgiveable offence. Their suffering wouldn’t undo the trauma they have inflicted on their daughter. They have ruined someone's key development phase and the least they could do is stay out of their daughter's life but no they have to be trying to insert themselves in it through various ways.

It's always the mc accommodating her behaviour to their needs. The only thing their families do is use money to fix their relationship and if we are lucky give a half-hearted apology to mc and amazingly it always works. What takes the cake is the lenghts the authors go to excuse their shitty behaviour ranging from poison to demons to "political neutrality???" to "I tHouGhT yOu DidN't liKe mE"/ She was to perfect at everything she did I didn't know how to treat her so I neglected her/ I had to traumatize her to protect her (<- grown man to a 12 y/o child) It's not sending a very great message tbh. And the trope is so common that it has become not only stale and boring but also increasingly annoying. Where is the payoff of mc learning a skill to escape her abuser only to give up said profession and become his obedient little housewife? All the manipulation and preparations for an escape seem pointless when the character decides to stay in the end. Image a heist movie where the characters plan a heist for 2 seasons and then not go through with it.

And sometimes revenge makes more sense. The more snippets I read of the novel the more I'm convinced that Claude was miscast as a father, he was made to be a villain and I stand by that. He doesn't pull off the role of a father believably anyways.

MC sucking up to a more powerful man instead of becoming independent seems outdated and anti feminist. Athy raising an army and dethroning her father and Penelope dancing on the ashes of the Eckart mansion after she has killed them all is what I want to see and not them becoming dependent on the very people who have murdered them. How could they ever feel safe in the arms of someone who had broken their trust and made them fear for their life? How would Penelope feel to watch Duke Eckart play the loving grandpa/her brothers be nice uncles to her daughter when she knew the kind of abuse they were capable of? Wouldn’t it hurt her how different their treatment is and that her family was capable to treat a non-blood related child well but choose not to?

In Athy's and Penelope's case it's even worse because they were the person who was tortured and killed. They have a very personal reason not to go back to them but chose to do it anyway. If 15 y/o Athy had gone back to Claude I could understand it somewhat, but our Athy is mentally an adult from modern day Korea and has seen how healthy family relationships look like. The same goes for Cha Siyeon. Why give up on your abusive family in Korea and then go back to an arguable even worse abusive family in the game world? She should have known better. I thought she was a rational person. Love made them dumb. She chose to stay in a medieval world where all her personal connections are men who have traumatized her, when she could have gone back to the real world to her friends who valued her and the prestigious university she tried so hard to get into.