#so i could draw them as sebaciel

[icantdothistodaybruh]

Helloo (⁠＾⁠∇⁠＾⁠)⁠ﾉ⁠♪

I just wanted to say YOUR ART IS SO ELEGANT, BEAUTIFUL AND CUTE 😭💕😭💕😭💕 Your drawings are so liquid-like but at the same time it's so realistic. I could eat your drawings for breakfast, lunch and dinner and never get bored of it.

Also YOUR SEBACIEL STUFF IS MAKING MY DAAY🥰😍 Like, you draw them so beautifully and their relationship in your art is literally what I imagine how their relationship would be. They are so warm and so passionate and so chilling too! Ciel is so perfect, he is so in character. Like the boss he is but at the same time so sweet to Sebastian. And Sebastian is so perfect too, he is so mesmerized by Ciel. Your comics are so sweet and cozy: from the one Ciel buying a cat to Sebastian (😔🎀) to Sebastian teaching Ciel how to cook (😭💕😭💕) it's perfect.

I think the Sebaciel drawings you made taste like a birthday cake which was carefully wrapped in stretch film and placed in the refrigerator. When one takes it out from the fridge, it feels cold, melting in one's mouth deliciously. It has strawberries and dark chocolate chip cream on the inside and dark chocolate covering. The cake is a classic vanilla pnadiscake but the fresh fruit and that perrrfect chocolate balances everything.

Please never, ever, stop making art. You are my idol both in the way you draw and the way you show my favorite meanies relationship 💐💐💐

Okay. That was all. Love youu (⁠.⁠ ⁠❛⁠ ⁠ᴗ⁠ ⁠❛⁠.⁠)💕

Oh my god, thank you!! It's so sweet, you absolutely made my day with your ask🥺🥺🥺❤❤❤

I couldn't come up with anything longer to say, so I made a little something for you instead, hope you like it!🍰

[plague-of-insomnia]

I ship sebaciel but I only like their dynamic, in my head I imagine an adult Ciel and I only read fanfics when Ciel is way over 18 and can decide by himself/not be manipulated. I was raped when I was 15, I could never ship something like that. But anti pro shippers never bother to see the nuance. I'm afraid if I start publicly shipping it, people will call me a pedo lol Also I think that the ones who like the age gap still can't be compared to real pedos who consume lolicon/ realistic drawings who REALLY resemble children and explicitly are in a setting of a child being molested. I see incels doing that, and the kuro fandom is mostly women.

Hi, anon. Sorry I didn’t reply yesterday. I had COVID a couple weeks ago and now have bronchitis and i just ran out of gas to formulate a response I felt this ask merited.

First of all, I’m sorry that happened to you. I hope you’ve been able to get past it enough that it doesn’t affect your daily life too badly 🫂.

Sadly, a lot of antis act as if they’re the only ones who have been victims of (sexual) abuse, and that any survivor who doesn’t behave the way they do either must be lying or “deserved” what they got— which is absolutely awful to do to anyone.

As I’m sure you’re aware, we’re not a monolith. Some survivors find rape play (whether role play or in fictional works) helps them move past their trauma because it helps them to have the control they didn’t have as victims. But others find it triggering and upsetting and not helpful at all— and that’s valid too.

I personally don’t ship sc anymore mostly because I just don’t click with Ciel in the ship the way I do with other pairings. I also personally get very very uncomfortable with some underage depictions. For example, there was a fantastic sc fan fic a few years ago that I had to stop reading. It is one of the best written works in the fandom, but it just made me so uncomfortable (it’s underage) I had to stop.

But what did I do? Did i leave the author an angry message saying I was not gonna read it? No, ofc not. I just clicked away.

So if for you, you need situations in which you feel Ciel can fully consent/is in control to feel comfortable and happy then that’s perfectly valid! There’s no one “right” way to ship anything, and you have to look out for yourself first. Because we come to fandom to have fun and escape, so no need to delve into things you don’t like or that make you uncomfortable.

Antis are incapable of seeing these kinds of nuances, or realizing that purposefully consuming content that upsets you is self harm.

Sadly, if you openly ship sc (or even aren’t absolutely against it) you may get some hate. I know I have gotten my share, and it’s *always* about Ciel, no matter how I’ve depicted other characters or what ages they are in my stories. But I’ve also gotten hate for being a fujoshi (misgendering me at that) more than once, and some of it even before I joined the fandom… for my original work.

My point is that people are gonna attack you if they’re gonna attack you…. if you’re not willing to take that risk by being public about your ship that’s valid too. I definitely get how exhausting antis can be and if you’re just wanting to stare at your blorbos for a bit you don’t wanna be fighting of negativity left and right too.

It’s a shame that antis have started using the word pedo as a word for anyone they dislike, devaluing it, but the real shame imo is that they refuse to see that actual CSEM is bad not because it’s gross or immoral but because it harms actual children, who grow up to be adults with trauma.

I think it’s very important to distinguish actual CSEM (or “fictional works” that were intentionally modeled off real CSEM) from anything that’s purely fictional. Because you can never really know why someone made something or why someone likes something.

I write about child abuse, sexual and not, a lot because I find it very therapeutic, but someone might read my works and may draw other, completely erroneous conclusions about me and my motives.

I honestly think a huge chunk of the kuro fandom is nonbinary, but I don’t really know the demographics. I’m sure they’re slightly different depending on if you’re looking at the western or eastern fandoms…

But women can be toxic just like anyone else. Some of the absolute most vile antis I’ve seen identify as female.

Ultimately, I think that the best thing to do with the fandom (or any fandom, really) is to curate your experience. Block accounts that trigger you or don’t vibe with you. Find like-minded friends to chat with in private, so you don’t have to worry about strangers hopping on what you say. Filter tags and use apps if you need to.

I think it’s a shame that antis are so vocal in the fandom and have divided it so much. As a multishipper not much into sc, I have definitely felt that fracture more than some others, since sadly too many non-sc shippers think they need to scream about how icky that ship is and be jerks when we could just ignore sc entirely and enjoy the other ships we like instead together?

But the no matter what antis claim, sc shippers have always been and will always be the column that holds the fandom up, and you either need to make peace with it or learn to ignore it.

🫶

My ask box is open for anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable being open about their love for kuro but would like to squee over it/the new series with someone who doesn’t mind listening :)

[uwushitsuji]

Reading black butler again as an adult, I find myself thinking a lot the sexualization of Sebastian and Ciel's relationship. I was expecting to feel disgusted but.... Morals aside, I feel from a narrative standpoint, it actually works?

We all know most sebaciel scenes are fanservice, Yana used to draw yaoi, the anime was sold as "shonen-ai" etc etc It's 2024 there's no point to debate that over and over again.

But is that fanservice unnecesary? At least in the manga, I dont think so. For the better or for the worse, it does serve a purpose. It defines the entire relationship of the main characters.

Just to make it clear, I think their relationship is very sexual, but not in a literal *they have sex* way. Sex is associated with love, intimacy, passion, desire, but also with violence, possesiveness, domination.

You could get rid of all the "weird fanservice", but that would destroy the complexity of their relationship. It would become either a story about two characters that don't care about each other, or a bland "wholesome" one.

Ciel, despite all his trauma, feels comfortable exposing his body to Sebastian. Having physical contact with someone. Showing his vulnerable self, because he's absolutely confident he won't be hurt.

Sebastian is always close to Ciel. Even too close. And the weird way he carries Young Master. It's clearly unappropiate and he doesn't seem to care about boundaries. Because Ciel is what he desires the most, and he *owns* him. Ciel is his treasure, his prize, his most precious possesion. Ciel is *his*. He's always being possesive, showing the world Ciel belongs *only* to him, while also being (somehow) gentle and caring.

(The topic of how Sebastian uses his sexuality as a weapon is pretty interesting as well, but not today!!)

Surprisingly, the fanservice does wonders to develop the duality of their dynamics. It perfectly showcases both the "light" and "dark" between them. Intimacy, healing, confidence absolute trust, caring for each other. Codependency, unhealthy desire, possesiveness, manipulation.

They're two sides of the same coin.

On the other hand, in contrast with Sebastian and Ciel's relationship, I think it's interesting how scenes involving real sex are not sexualized at all??

Sebastian and Beast are both really attractive characters, and they could be used in a more "fanservicey" way. However, their scene together it's short and uncomfortable. The intimacy between them feels fake, everything seems off. Beast doesn't look like he's actually enjoying anything. It's pretty clear she's being abused, and thanks Goodness there's no romantization nor explicit borderline fetish content. Instead, it does a great a job creating a "something is wrong here" atmosphere.

The Blue Memory flashback. It's disgusting and makes me physically ill, but it's able to do so without being explicit. It's really powerful without being morbid. Absolutely no fanservice here. Thanks Goodness again.

Like in real life, in Black Butler sexuality can be a safe place (Ciel and Sebastian), or a source of violence and pain.

Imo Yana is a better writer than you all give her credit for. She may be a shotacon or whatever, but at least she is coherent with the overall tone of her story and can be respectful when it's due. Despite all the fanservice at some points, I feel she's great at knowing when to do or not do it.

At the end of the day, I find fascinating how sex and sexualization are used in Black Butler. Sebastian and Ciel's relationship has nothing to do with sex, yet is so intense that I could argue that rather than being sexualized, their entire relationship is inherently sexual per se. If you remove that element from the equation, the main characters would be so different that the nature of the entire story would change.

The "fanservice" is not only fanservice, but what moves the characters and story foward.

Is it ethical?? That's up to you.

But for me, even if there are some uncomfortable moments, the result is worth it. A relationship so unique that you can't "tag" it. Both unhealthy and abusive, yet a safe place for Ciel to heal. It's problematic on several levels, but *that*is what makes it interesting.

Anyway, it's just fiction, and it's nice to explore different kinds of stories without hurting anyone.

[sebadztian]

Hi Seb, I was spending some time thinking about something in the kuroshitsuji community and I'd like to see if more people realize the same thing as me. As you are a very active and communicative person, I thought it would be a good idea to try it for you first. So, I'll get straight to the point and then introduce my point of view, so things move faster.

For some time now I have noticed a huge amount of hypocrisy in the kuroshitsuji fandom, especially in ANTIS, like I see people who are anti Sebaciel, or anti proshipper, but who ship Ciel x Lizzy, which is incest and is included in this proshipper category, every time I question them about this I either get blocked or have my comments deleted, most of the time they use the excuse that incest between cousins ​​can or that at the time it could and that's why it's okay, but that's not really an argument that Do they hate it so much when it comes from a Sebaciel shipper?

Giving some context about myself here so as not to bring up any misunderstanding, I have nothing against anyone who likes these ships. I'm not a Sebaciel or Ciellizzy shipper, at most I like some Sebaciel AUs in which Ciel is an adult man, this comes because I have triggers and psychological traumas involving pedo and incest, on this account I have been introducing myself more into the community of kuroshitsuji and I've seen how difficult it is to build a healthy community here, it seems like everyone hates each other like... there are people I've never talked to or seen in my life who blocked me and I don't even know why, I would think that maybe this person was a anti and thought I was part of the Sebaciel community due to drawings that I repost, but in my bio and in my profile pin it is very clear that I just don't care about this ship thing.

And again this hypocrisy breaks me, I saw anti Sebaciel shipping Joanne and Sebastian while Joanne is also a minor, it seems that they are only defenders of young people when it suits them, it is really confusing trying to understand this fandom and at all times It's like I'm walking on eggshells talking here.

I hope the Google Translate translation wasn't confusing and strange, I don't speak English fluently and because of this it can often lead to misinterpretations. Making it very clear that I don't want war with anyone, I really wanted to build a community on my profile where everyone is welcome, and I was focusing on the people from kuroshitsuji because so many were super sweet and welcoming to me, but at the same time it has me created a headache.

I'm just an artist wanting to sell my daily bread, I don't need to be radical and be on side X or Y, as a professional I believe that my opinions should not influence my audience or separate them, I've always seen people from DNI is extremely privileged to be able to choose the audience they want to follow them. I just hope I can find more calm people here

Thank you for your attention and sorry for any inconvenience, kisses from Brazil

Hi, Deusa (hope it's alright to call you that)!

Since the answer is going to be quite long, I put them under the cut...

I'm going to share my own opinion with you in response to your view. Hope that's ok.

Yes, I agree that there are a lot of hypocrisy in the Kuro fandom, most especially among antis. They can't seem to decide what is it that they actually want. I've seen those who support CielLizzy, and those who are against this particular ship because of the incest thing.

To be fair, marriage between cousins (even first cousins) was very common back then in the Victorian era. Queen Victoria & Prince Albert were first cousins too and they got married. The reason why they did this is to keep the 'high blood' in the family and to strengthen their familial bond.

If Ciel & Lizzy get married, then the bond between the Phantomhives & the Midfords will only get stronger and they can keep everything (wealth, nobility, status, power) 'in the family', so to speak.

Even until today, marrying one's cousin is still allowed & legal in some places. Thus, this type of marriage might not be seen as strictly 'incestuous'.

Another reason why those antis are still somewhat okay with this pairing might be because of their age. Ciel & Lizzy are of the same age (Liz is a year older, but that's still considered as 'normal age gap'). And of course, Ciel & Lizzy are 'normal' couple (a man and a woman).

These factors might help them to justify this ship, even if they're techincally incest.

Things are very different when it comes to Sebaciel.

First, they're both males.

Second, there's the whole age gap & pedophilia thing (antis' most favourite argument). Seb is, well, we don't know how old he is, but we can safely assume that he's much, much older than Ciel and it doesn't help that he looks like an adult man. This age gap (in real life) is definitely seen as pedophilia (which I completely agree with).

And then, there's the whole Sebas is a demon who wants to eat Ciel's soul thingy - which is true, but they see Sebas as evil and they're all about 'protecting baby Ciel' because he's been abused. I'm not going to go into why this behaviour is not going to help Ciel because this answer is not about that.

About Harcourt and Sebastian shippers... Well, I can't say anything about this because this too baffles me. Harcourt is only 1 year older than Ciel (he's in second form) and I don't know why they're ok with Seb/Harcourt, but they'd burn Sebaciel at the stakes. I don't ship them, so I cannot find anything to justify/explain this. Whatever thing that Seb did to Ciel, he did it worse to Harcourt, imo, but at least, Ciel knows what kind of bastard Seb is. Seb even laced Harcourt's pie with laxatives, like... why would anyone ship them? Is it because Harcourt is seen as more... feminine & soft compared to Ciel? Shouldn't they worry about traumatizing this boy??

But I digress...

I'm sorry that you've been through such ridiculous thing and I agree that it's very difficult to find others who are neutral when it comes to shipping. In opposite of the antis, we also have the extreme shippers (Sebaciel or otherwise) and they too, are not too friendly towards non-shippers or other shippers.

I generally don't interact with antis because I've got my blog banned twice and I don't want to get a third ban, so I tend to play it safe and stick with the people that I know (either other Sebaciel shippers or the neutral/proship-safe space). Unfortunately, things are very divided in this fandom and you really have to be careful about whom you talk to/interact with.

I have my own 'limits' in the fandoms that I follow (not just Kuro). There are some pairings that I will never ship or headcanons that I will never entertain, but I try to be open until I decide that no, this is not for me.

For what it's worth, I think everyone is waaaaay too young for Sebas, even Tanaka. Some antis ship Sebagni. Agni is 31, so he's about 18 years older than Ciel. But compared to Sebas, he's still much, much too young. Yet, they don't seem to have any problem with shipping them. Maybe because they're both tall, adult men? I don't know... To be very clear, I'm not against Sebagni. It's not my cup of tea (because I think Agni's true soulmate is Soma), but if you ship them, that's cool wih me!

My point is, if you're talking about age gap, the only ones Sebas should be with are either Claude (whose existence I try to ignore/forget) or maybe one of the Reapers.

Sorry that I ended up rambling, but in summary, I agree with you.

Thanks for the ask!

[olderthannetfic]

Hi, Olderthannetfic - I'm just sort of reaching out through the blogosphere to see if anyone in the larger proship community has any suggestions for where a community could move if not on discord. (CW for discussion of underage content and Black Butler Spoilers)

So I run a discord server for Black Butler (Kuroshitsuji) but I'm also in several writing discords including one that caters to dead dove content creators. Today they posted some rule changes, due to changes in Discord's community guidelines. Any illustrations for nsfw of obviously underage characters are now banned, and written content has to be vague and not state ages of underage participants. That prompted me to read through it: And, I gotta say, its pretty bad: https://discord.com/safety/child-safety-policy-explainer Hoping the community can offer some insight on what to do since the policy is incredibly broad. Either a new platform, or what we could even reasonably do beyond our current system of gating the server heavily to avoid issues like reporting/brigading. The meat of the policy is right here, for those who want to read it:

You may not post or share the following types of content, such as [sensitive language content warning]

Portrayals of minors engaging in sex acts, or in sexually explicit or suggestive poses

Sexual comments about or desires for real or fictitious minors

Links to websites containing material that sexualizes minors

Photos or videos of non-nude minors in a sexualized or fetishistic context

Statements expressing intent to obtain materials of child abuse or engage in child sexual abuse

Promotion, encouragement or normalization of pedophilia or sexual attraction to children

Photos, videos, or drawings of nude or sexualized minors, such as “lolicon” or “shotacon”

Photos, videos or illustrations of naked or sexualized anthropomorphized minors (sometimes referred to as “cub porn”)

Also of note from their guidelines: > Given the high-harm nature of this content, we will also consider off-platform evidence as explained in our Off-Platform Behaviors Policy when reviewing content under this policy.

This is pretty horrifying for me, since under these terms, even if we weren't writing smutty fanfiction and laughing about silly nsfw headcannons, discussion even of the source material of Kuro would be completely off limits. I mean, this is a panel from the arc that was recently announced to be animated for release in 2024:

I think even on tumblr just mentioning that this looks like an intro to a porno would be flagged.

This is particularly frustrating since this is a series that is literally sold at like, Barnes and Noble. It's one of the most popular mangas in the world. Even the numerous, incredibly obnoxious antis who run this fandom on tiktok/reddit/twitter and don't ship the "evil" Sebaciel like I do would probably be forbidden from even discussing many of the canon elements under these terms, including: * The many plot points in several arcs during which it is implied that an adult character is sexually attracted to Ciel (I was going to list them all but this honestly happens at least once per arc) * Discussion of Ciel's trauma - the inciting incident of the manga (also portrayed in flashbacks) where he is sexually assaulted alongside his brother * The Green Witch Arc plot where Sieglinde interprets the situation to be that Sebastian/Ciel have invited her to a three way to take her virginity. * The many canon depictions of Ciel in various states of undress that are clearly intended to be titillating in some manner. I mean... "Photos or videos of non-nude minors in a sexualized or fetishistic context" is basically just. The entire series. In fact, even just linking to where you could read or purchase this manga legally at Barnes and Noble could technically be considered a violation under these guidelines considering how incredibly broad they are. Much has already been said on your blog and elsewhere about how this type of policy harms queer people and CSA survivors (both terms I identify with) and how censorship like this also targets books like Speak (incidentally one of my favorite books from when i was younger) so I won't rehash that here but... its disappointing to say the least.

I assume that most of this is just covering their ass due to legislation and/or the usual pressure from payment processors. Its also possible I'm overreacting entirely and this is a paranoid reading of this policy. Nonetheless, I'd appreciate any insight you or the community might have on what our options might be.

Sorry for the massive ask in your inbox :P Just don't know what we'd do if the worst happened and we got reported.

--

A lot hinges on how many of those instances of "minors" they think imply "real or fictitious" and how many they're interpreting as real only. They're explicitly banning some types of fictitious material like loli/shota and cub porn, but they aren't explicit about all of the items on this list.

Will discord use these rules punitively against shit they shouldn't without warning? Almost certainly yes. But as for why they're making them, it's because discord is apparently one of the current favorite places for the distribution of actual abuse images of actual children, and they need to cover their asses.

Still, it's worth exploring your options early.

If you want to host explicit shota fan art, you're looking at a very limited selection of sites. I think a lot of people went to certain Mastodon instances.

If you want to discuss Black Butler in peace... IDK... Maybe check out how Bobaboard is doing? It's going to depend on what features you need. The more you're just making a community on someone else's site, the less liability you personally have. The more you're running your own thing, the more you have to be in charge of legal compliance stuff.

[it-lives-within-the-dark]

Girl Talk

Sebaciel Week 2023 - Day 2 (Brighton)

"Oh, so he's your chaperone? Not anyone...special?" "I'd like him to be my chaperone. I'd have him escort me everywhere; the dance hall, the gardens, my bed..." "Agnes!" "Oh, don't pretend that you didn't notice how well fit his trousers were. I saw you staring when he turned his back." "Of course I did I'm not blind, but I wasn't going to mention it while we're still in public. Celia? Are you feeling well, you're terribly flushed..."

Edit to add: inspired by @puppyfan9000's post here

Notes about the piece under the cut:

Created using oil paints and pastels in Realistic Paint Studio

The dresses are based on real fashion plates from 1889 which can be seen here. The hairstyles and hats are just approximations of late Victorian styling, not rooted in anything specific.

This was supposed to be a 2-3 piece set/comic, but alas I ran out of time and patience. I may or may not come back and finish them at a later date when the thought of drawing Ciel's dress and hair again doesn't make me want to claw my eyes out

Ironically, the very first (and last) Kuro fanart I did was a fem!Ciel drawing back in 2009/2010. I still have it tucked away in a folder. I might add it here later for laughs.

This is actually the first time I've drawn in.....8 years? I'd always liked drawing and my senior year of college I managed to squeeze in a drawing class and a painting class, but then real life happened and no more drawing. I'd forgotten just how much I love it.

On a similar note, this is the first time I've legitimately done digital drawing. I've tried in the past but could never get over the learning curve of traditional art to digital art. The program that I used has a UI based on traditional art and that's been extremely helpful.

[nighttime-tea-party]

soooo idk who else to ask but like what happened to all the big names during the sebaciel renaissance?? I’ve kinda been off tumble pretty much since nsfw ban, but what happened to blogs like chromehopelite and ciel’s lingerire or vexing young master? Im sure there’s others I’m missing I just can’t remember but I feel like no one uploads on the sebaciel ao3 tag as much as it used to in like 2017 and 2018. hopefully the fandom will come alive again with a new season?

Hello! I have no idea what happened to Vexing Young Master but as for the others, as far as I know, Ciels Lingerie got obliterated again and again, both here and on twitter, and I guess at one point they gave up. Their latest twitter seems to have been hacked by crypto bros.

Chromehoplite is still around, just not in the fandom anymore. And who can blame them, considering the amount of vile messages they got on a daily basis.

To be honest, I've been active in the tumblr fandom for... Idk how long, before BoC, and it was the most prolific back when BoC aired. After that, it's been a downward spiral. It got a bit refreshment through BoM and BotA but not in the same way. Back during BoM, the fandom felt huge.

I think it's a natural development. Manga fandoms are most active when there's a fairly recent tv anime adaptation (movies just don't do it like tv shows). There hasn't been one in a long time, and additionally, we've had to put up with our main characters virtually missing from the manga for about half a decade now. The twin reveal was that long ago!

So I completely understand that the fandom has become the way it is now. I consider myself crazy for still sticking around the way I do (but I have no plans of changing that) but most people aren't as weird about Kuroshitsuji as I am.

That being said, I also believe that the fandom will have a real renaissance when the show airs again. I never expected that twitter-borne renaissance to hold on anyway because it was mostly just born out of spite against antis (which is valid but not enough to give people the motivation to stick with a manga that's barely progressing over the course of years). Chrome and the others were there before the twitter renaissance and they were there after it too to some extent, but I guess lives go on, priorities and interests change and also, fandom can just be really nasty and detrimental to your mental health sometimes.

Maybe we'll see some familiar people come back when the new show airs, who knows!

I hope my answer helped!

P.S.: from the perspective of a creator myself, the disappearance of popular creators coincides with a strong decrease of engagement with authors' and artists' works. You could say it's a hen and egg kind of situation but I think the common denominator is the lack of progress in the manga and everyone's fatigue with everything. In any case, from a creator's POV it does feel kind of discouraging sometimes when you feel like your skill has increased over time but people don't interact with it as much as they used to. Like, I know it's the size of the fandom but I sometimes think, "has my art gotten that bad?" and I mean I don't draw for attention or else I'd draw Genshin or sth like that but it is a little difficult to process anyway. Sorry for the rant.

[ciels-gay-cousin]

TLDR; Are there any other recovering Sebaciel shippers getting back into the show with a fresh perspective?

I started watching the show when I was 13, & made it an annoyingly big part of my personality how much I shipped Sebaciel. Printing out manga panels & pasting it on every journal I had level obsessed.

Getting back into the fandom, I'm just looking at all these new tumblr blogs with the same flaming texts I used to send as a kid & honestly its funny. I used to lie about my age & defend the hell out of it too!! I see ya!!

No, I know there are plenty of Sebaciel shippers & for completely justified reasons. For me, it's just sort of grown into a bittersweet acknowledgement instead of actually wanting them to be together?

I'm 21, getting back into the show & manga, & every time they interact with each other in the suggestive ways they do, all i can think about is how Ciel's literally a child. I can't stop thinking about how I was at his age & if I put myself in his shoes, there's a towering million year old demon over me in the most pull & tug power dynamic ever.

Kuroshitsuji throughout it's entirety has always sexualized Ciel in some way or another. Literally consistently & we all know it's because of Yana's background w shota porn. Besides the blatant fact that she just likes to draw him ... suggestively at times, the sexualization of Ciel & Sebastian's relationship does what the show's intended to do. Portraying Ciel as a hopeless child who will be devoured by the demon.

This is how the show will end, no matter what. The tension on screen is showing the audience the complexity of their relationship, & how it does go deeper than master & butler in a myriad of ways. Going the sexualization route, just puts the point across faster than the storytelling alone.

It just kind of a weird dynamic now. Being completely conscious of what Ciel has been put through, what he will go through, etc., of course I don't want this kid to get fucked over by the demon! But it's gonna happen! It's the same for the sexualization of their relationship. Yana's completely aware of what she's doing & will never have their relationship become more than what it is. The tease of the tension is what she counts on, for multiple reasons.

I view their relationship more as a spectacle for something much bigger than them, ei. the evil in humanity etc. etc. if not anything else to make me feel better lol. I could dissect it into a million little words which I'm sure I'll do eventually but anyway

So, although I don't ship them anymore I am... quite literally neutral. No one can deny what's on screen, it's there, we just take what it is in different ways. From a symbolic point of view, it's the deepest.

[kuro-morale-events]

May 11: Interview with @mochi-mochirsart

Meet @mochi-mochirsart !

@mochi-mochirsart is an artist and writer.

Q1. What type of content do you create?

A1. Fan art mainly and sometimes fan fiction. (If the distractions don't bother me,lol).

Q2. Do you have an ao3, Twitter, or account specifically for your works?

A2. On tumblr I have a side account called @deepestkurodesires, and I have 2 social accounts at the moment.

Ao3: my_Lost_Memory

Twitter: Cutebutsinner

(All are 18+)

Q3. What work are you most proud of, why?

A3. Last Angel Of Earth fan fiction. Because it is the one which I put a lot of my fave dynamics and tropes. I'm pretty surprised the fic has 3 years old and I've already made like 10 chapters or even more and some fanarts. (◍•ᴗ•◍)❤ [Also in Spanish]

Q4. When did you get into Kuro?

A2. 2018

Q5. What ships do you have, if any?

A5. Sebaciel is my otp in kuroshitsuji, but I am interested in other ships (which I haven't created content yet, lol) like Including one which a certain couple of people tried to turn me onto XD

Q6. What are your favorite tropes?

A6. Human x Monster, Angel x Demon, Enemies to lovers, hero x villian, hero x hero.

Q7. Do you have a routine for your creative process? (Getting snacks, music, etc)

A7. Yes, I have. The music is my blessing and my curse (because sometimes I get sucked into my imagination, haha) and during breaks, I drink water and eat sweet things like mini cakes.🍰

Q8. What gives you inspiration?

A8. Internet artists like Jinko, Sakimichan, Naokichi, Errslance, . With material inspo are Amvs (animated music videos), mangas and music.

Q9. Is there anything you're working on right now?

A9. Yes, but it’s a secret 🤫... And I also need to continue my fanfic, lol.

Q10. Do you prefer digital or traditional art? Why?

A10. I like both, but if I have to choose one, it would be digital one, because I love with how many brushes, layers and colors you can experiment, mix or combine. Being messy,lol. Also is easier delete or fix mistakes, it is pretty useful and you can do it from a computer or a phone!

Q11. If you could improve one thing with your art or writing this year, what would it be and why?

A11. This time, both. The first one because I want to learn some modes like realistic art and manga drawing. And the second because I want to know more about literature, so I can make more interesting my stories and Make my readers enjoy them.

Reminder, you can find them at @mochi-mochirsart , Twitter, and AO3. Go give them some love!

{Full List of May Activities}

{FAQ} {Rules}

[molotov-tea-cosies]

Belated ~Happiest of Birthdays~, @chromehoplite​!! Tlazocamati for all you do for the Kuroshitsuji fandom! I hope your birthday was wonderful! <3 Here’s an unbeta’d snippet from my untitled  Sebaciel fic for yooooou! *Aged up Ciel *Ciel and Sebastian have never kissed before *They have done other things though

---------------------------------

“Sebastian,” he whispered, the name dangerously honeyed. The demon could feel the delicious deviousness of his master’s smile before he saw it. Deep, endless space eclipsing the peacock-blue of his eye, voice growing from knowingly demure to commanding, “I believe it is time for you to offer me tribute.”

Sebastian’s breath grew heavy, making him acutely aware of each contraction and relaxation of his diaphragm. His mouth grew moist with desire, mind racing with carefully catalogued memories, only one of which was as yet unknown to his master. 

“Tribute?” Sebastian said, drawing out each syllable with a wicked grin. He felt endless roots of electricity surge through his human circulatory system, strengthening in voltage as he approached the young man.

“Worship,” Ciel spat imperiously, tilting his chin up ever so slightly, a knowing smile overtaking his lips. The dust of stars lingered in the air as he spoke, drawing Sebastian in, closer to the bed, closer to his sonorous lord.

The demon’s mind flared with thoughts of a particular star.

They must have been beloved indiscriminately, by humans and gods alike. By beings of many planes, for them to have formed this being before him.

He wondered how many times they had been marvelled at, prayed to, shared the deepest secrets, hopes, and despair of those long gone.

[plague-of-insomnia]

Ask game: A ship you like, but others don't?

A ship you dislike but others do?

This one is easy.

A Ship I Like Others Don't: All of them? lol.

Honestly, most of the ships I love are uncommon. Some I am literally the ONLY person who has written about them here or on AO3, including BardAgni and Vintaka, which makes me so sad bc they're suchhhh good ships.

Even Sebard has very few followers. And sadly, sebagni is almost all antis </3. I'm like... the only one posting about them here (who I don't have blocked or doesn't have me blocked, anyway). There's a couple non-anti artists who still draw sebard occasionally.... sebagni is almost never seen anymore outside anti circles... and it's not a popular ship in Japan so there's no content in that fandom, either.

There's a lot of other rare ships I like but haven't been able to write for yet, like Bardlau, or Sebataker (one of the more popular ships I like)*.

*Correction, I *have* written Sebataker, in WDH, but not as its own story. Yet.

But I love trying out different combinations. If I had had more spoons in my years in the fandom I probably would have written at least one little thing for every ship I felt like trying out.... maybe someday. I still want to do that Vintaka vampire fic eventually....

Ofc I haven’t mentioned every ship I like, bc we'd be here all day, lol, but yeah, I really, really wish I could get a few people into BardAgni and Vintaka (and more into Sebardgani)..... maybe someday.

A Ship I Don't Like Others Do: Sebaciel

I don't really DISLIKE it, but it just... doesn't do much for me. I enjoy their dynamic in canon. It gives me ENORMOUS glee when they're working and scheming together, like in the Murder arc or Weston arcs (partly why those are my top two fave arcs). But they don't... spark much in me the way other ships do. I don't.... get that buzz of emotion when I imagine Seb and Ciel the way a lot of people do. I WISH I DID SOMETIMES because there is SO MUCH CONTENT for them in canon and ofc fan made.... But.... as much as I like Ciel in canon and admire him as a survivor and a character, he just... doesn't really connect with me out of canon in the same way that other characters do. I don't even include him in most of my stories lmao. He just... doesn't really interest me outside of the manga.

Thank you again for the asks. I'm sorry for the delay in replaying.

[chibimyumi]

Btw and this is absolutely not intended as criticism bcs I think the Lau hairstyles you drew are a definite improvement (I always thought the little horn things were a result of him shearing off his long hair way too short for some symbolic reason, what Is That) but two of them look exactly like the depiction of a rival of Lau's that runs an underground underage brothel in an obscure, ancient CD drama and tries to force Ciel into it. Complete with pic of Ciel in a sexualized quipao, legs apart.

【Response to: Lau’s Hair in chapter 165】

Dear Little-bloodied-angel,

Don’t worry, I didn’t think it was criticism, and even if it was, constructive criticism is always welcome ^^

I have no idea. It’s not impossible that there is a symbolic reason... Perhaps it was his way of slowly integrating into English society, but because of the Chinese taboo of cutting hair he could not bring himself to cut his queue yet? I really don’t know (≽▽≼) I don’t think we’ll ever get to know why because it is fair to assume Yana just thought it was a good idea.

To the best of my knowledge, though Qing Era men would never cut their hair because it was blasphemy, they would let the hair on their scalp grow when they were either severely ill, or in mourning period of their parents or grandparents.

So allow me to fix this panel a bit ( ´艸｀)

Also, you meant that these ⇊ drawings look like the guy from the Drama CD? If so...yeah, yeah, I do see it XD

(Drama CD sketch by Toboso Yana)

The first time I saw this sketch I had no context, and just for a split second I thought it was supposed to be SebaCiel in Chinese costumes... for “reasons”. Yana had drawn Sebas in Chinese clothes with exactly that type of eye make-up, after all.

Luckily it’s just the inside cover, so at least it’s not a blatant marketing strategy to get shippers to buy this CD.

But I still insist that if Yana had gone for ANY of these crack designs, it’d still look better than the current look.

[jenanigans1207]

How To Kiss Your Lover

A compilation of 5 one shots demonstrating different ways to kiss your lover! Each one shot is a different pairing. The options are: SasuNaru, Drarry, Hitachiincest, SasoDei and SebaCiel. 

This is old but I still really like it? And I just thought you guys might get a kick out of it!

1. Kiss on the lips (SasuNaru) It had been years since the infamous Sasuke Uchiha had fallen in love. But it was only months since he had admitted it. Yes, it was true. The one and only, the heartthrob of all Konoha had fallen in love and hard. But then again, it was no secret how stubborn Sasuke was. So, of course, it took him some time to accept the fact. But then again, it's kind of hard to deny the signs: hot face, trembling fingers, racing heartbeat. Of course, it's all so cliché, and Sasuke is far, far from cliché. Unfortunately for him, though, his willpower ran short. It was right about the time that Naruto finally dragged him back through the gates of Konoha, accidentally letting slip the real reason he had chased Sasuke all those years. "You're more than just my best friend, bastard. I love you, and I have no intention of living my life without you." Of course, Naruto turned red on the spot before sprinting away. Sasuke stood frozen for a long while before he finally managed to unlock his joints and begin moving towards his house. Except, instead of going to his home, he ended up outside of Naruto's, hand poised to knock. In that moment, years of emotion came crashing down on him. How he had masked such strong feelings with resentment and hatred, he didn't know, because he didn't resent or hate Naruto. He was just a far better actor than he had ever thought. So, he let his hand fall against the door and held his breath in anticipation. The soft padding of footsteps could be heard moments later. The door cracked open before promptly being slammed shut. Luckily, Sasuke was faster and managed to wedge his foot in the door before it was fully shut. Naruto backed away slowly, looking anywhere but Sasuke's eyes. Sasuke pushed the door fully open and stepped inside. He crossed the distance between them in two quick steps, gripped Naruto by the collar and pulled him down, pressing their lips together in a fierce kiss. And, well, that was that. 2. Kiss in the rain (Drarry) Rain pattered heavily against the grounds, the windows, and Harry himself. He stood by the edge of the lake, watching the ripples dance across the surface of the water. His cloak and sack were discarded under the nearby tree and his tie hung loosely around his neck. His hair was plastered against his forehead, dripping across his cheeks. He could barely see out of his glasses, but it didn't really bother him. He was alone. Of course, who else would want to be out in such a storm? Ron and Hermione had resigned back to the common room to do some "homework", but Harry was suspicious that their definition differed from his rather greatly. Not wanting to actually be blown off by them, he told them to just go ahead without him because he just wanted to go for a walk. They didn't question him. In fact, he wasn't sure they even heard him. "What are you doing out in the rain, Potter?" A familiar drawl stopped Harry's thoughts in their tracks. He whirled around and blinked through the rain dripping down his face, squinting to see through his foggy glasses. "Malfoy?" He cleared his throat, struggling for a more controlled tone. "I might ask you the same thing." "Is it such a crime for someone to walk the grounds, Potter?"  Draco inched slightly closer, his grey eyes trained on Harry's green ones. Harry sighed and pushed his fingers through his wet hair, slicking it away from his face. "Look, if you've come here simply to be a prat, I would prefer to take a rain check." There was a lapse in conversation. Draco appeared to actually be considering what Harry had said.  While he had his eyes directed towards the lake in thought, Harry observed him. He had to admit that he had been observing Draco more frequently, but this was different. Draco's blonde hair was wet and he, too, was without a cloak.  His white shirt was plastered firmly against his chest and it was, to Harry's secret pleasure, entirely see through. There was no hiding Draco's chest and there was hardly any stopping Harry's eyes from focusing there. But, before he lost control completely, Draco turned back and began to speak again. "Look, Potter, I didn't come out here to give you a hard time." To Harry's disbelieving look, he replied, "I know, I know. It's hard to believe. But I saw you coming out here, finally alone, and I couldn't turn down the opportunity." "Opportunity?" Harry echoed. "Do you know how hard it is to get you away from the mu—" Draco broke off, changing his line of speech quickly, "From your friends, that is? Almost impossible. But I've finally managed, haven't I?" "If you've got something to say, Malfoy, just spit it out." The usual bite of hatred and contempt didn't come through. Harry, almost regretfully, actually found himself curious about what the blond boy had to say. An expression of uncertainty crossed Draco's face momentarily. Then, before he could change his mind, he stepped forward and pressed his lips against Harry's. For a moment Harry was stunned, but then he found himself pressing back and running his hands through Draco's soaking hair. Draco grabbed Harry's loose tie and pulled him even closer, slipping his hands down to rest comfortably against Harry's hips. The kiss was hot and it was a wonderful contrast to the cold rain that still beat against their backs. For just a second, Draco pulled away. Harry looked at him through half-lidded eyes, "Malfoy?" He mumbled. "Shh," Draco pressed another kiss to his lips, "Now isn't the time for talking." 3. Kiss against the wall (Hitachiincest) Music Room 3 was filled to the brim, and nobody was surprised. The theme for today's Host Club activities was none other than fairytale. Of course, there was always some sort of twist to the theme, but what girl wouldn't be drawn in with the promise of knights in shining armor? Hikaru and Kaoru stood in the back, preparing more of the commoner's coffee. They had, oddly enough, been the most popular of the day and were relishing in their time away from it all. Truth be told, Tamaki fit the prince charming role to a T, but the idea of twin knights appeared to be too much to refuse. "They seem to be getting out of hand today, don't they?" Kaoru commented casually as he began to boil more water. Hikaru looked up, the hint of a smile tilting the corners of his lips, "Well, I can see what they love so much." When Kaoru shot him a quizzical look, Hikaru took a step closer, "You do look like a dream come true, Kaoru." "Hikaru," Kaoru murmured, the usual drawl of desire lacing into his words. Said twin took another step closer, glancing over his shoulder. They were safely out of the eye of the rest of the Host Club as well as the all of the customers. He stepped closer, snagging a hold of his brother's belt loops. "Yes, Kaoru?" Kaoru looped his hands up around his twin's shoulders. "Hikaru," He repeated in a breathy whisper, backing up towards the wall and pulling his brother along with him. As soon as Kaoru's back hit the wall, Hikaru saw his chance and acted upon it. He pressed his brother firmly against the wall, catching his lips in a kiss that was far dirtier than anything they had ever displayed to their guests. After a few more not-so-innocent kisses, Hikaru was forced to draw away and attend to the commoner's coffee they had been preparing. Kaoru took a minute to compose himself before laughing and bumping shoulders with his twin. "If only they saw us when we weren't acting." Hikaru laughed,  "Then they really would get out of hand." 4. Kiss on the neck (SasoDei) Sasori had Deidara pinned against a tree, a kunai held to his neck. Deidara's breath came in heavy, raspy gasps as he fought to regain some oxygen after the battle. Sasori, of course, was not even remotely short of breath as he smiled triumphantly at his partner. "I win." He almost mocked, "And you know what that means." Deidara had to fight not to groan, "What is it you want?" An evil smile crept across his lips, replacing the one that had previously been there. He dropped the kunai from Deidara's throat, leaning in to replace it with his lips. He kissed, nipped and licked his way across the collar of Deidara's shirt, more than enjoying the sounds that were escaping from his partner's lips. "D-danna…" Sasori moved his lips further up, kissing what he knew was Deidara's weak spot; the soft area just below his jawline by his ear. Deiara began to squirm in his grasp, but he held the blond's hands firmly together as he continued to make his way along his neck. Finally, after a few minutes, he took a break long enough to mumble, "Tell me what it is you want, brat." "Y-you, Danna. I want you…" Deidara panted. Sasori planted a few more kisses before  pulling away and releasing his partner all together. "Well, too bad. Because what I want for winning is to torture you." And with those words, Sasori turned and walked out of the clearing, the triumphant smile back on his lips. 5. Kiss under the covers (SebaCiel) Being the Queen's guard dog was a lot of work and it often left Ciel very tired. On this particular day he sat on his bed with hardly enough energy to hold himself upright while Sebastian worked his magic and changed him into his night clothes. "Bocchan?" Sebastian questioned as he stood, finished with his duties. Ciel looked up, sleepily rubbing at his eyes, "Mm?" "Is there anything else you wish to be done?" The young earl laid back in his bed, sliding one hand underneath his pillow. Without hesitation, Sebastian stepped forward, pulling the covers out from under his young master before draping them carefully on top of him.  He stepped back after a moment, grasping the candelabra and beginning to take his leave, assuming that this meant there were no further orders. Just as he turned his back, Ciel reached out and grasped his wrist. "Sebastian." "Bocchan?" "Douse the candles," He spoke, a certain hint of huskiness creeping into his voice, "And stay here for the night." Sebastian didn't need to be told twice. He placed the candelabra down, doused the flames and climbed into bed right beside his young master. Ciel turned to face him, his blue eyes sparkling in the dark. "Before we sleep, I have one more command for you." "Yes, my lord." "…Kiss me." Sebastian hardly hesitated. One look in Ciel's eyes told him that his young master was not lying. So, he reached out, cupped the Earl's face and pulled him close so that their lips were touching. Part of him expected Ciel to pull away; he was a young boy and this sort of physical contact was new for him. But he seemed to welcome the feeling. Sebastian's red eyes fell shut as he realized that this was a welcomed action. They pulled apart for breath after a moment and, as Sebastian leaned in to kiss him again, he realized something. He didn't just was Ciel's soul. No, he wanted his heart; his very being. And, if this was any indication, he was on the right track to gaining what he desired; Ciel himself. 

[aroacepositivityplace]

I HATE the fact that we have to share personal details of our lifes in order to be taken seriuosly. I realised I was abused because I read about it in a book, an adults book, but at 10-11 years old I'd read any book I could find at home. Author never said 'abuse is bad' but by reading it I could easily see that it was wrong, something I never realised while it was happening to me. Stop policing what other people write or draw, stop trying to censor these issues, this is getting really dangerous

I do, too. It’s a huge reason why the idea that only survivors can like dark media and only as a coping mechanism is inherently harmful. Antis end up making assumptions about people, whether it be if they were ever abused, their gender, sexuality, etc and even after people disclose that information, which they have ZERO obligation to, it rarely does anything to appease accusers and just leaves the person being interrogated having to make a neat list of their trauma to be scrutinized. It’s almost like the anti rhetoric around protecting survivors is wholly meaningless (sarcasm, it’s hollow af).

Depicting abuse isn’t inherently glorifying it. As you said, people can recognize it’s wrong without the author making their narrator stop in the middle of the exposition and explain to the reader that what’s going on is wrong. Antis seem to go back and forth between only wanting coffee shop au’s and the former point. For some people such as yourself, it’s very important to have more realistic depictions of abuse. It can be how they recognize what happened to them, allow them to feel comfort in knowing their favorite character understands their trauma, the list goes on. There’s no one way to be a survivor. When content creators are able to be authentic, that’s when they’re able to reach the widest audience. It can result in a lot of people finding a coping mechanism just as it can leave some triggered. Again, the answer is to push for better content warnings, not to completely ban media one doesn’t personally like American PTA’s who think kids are going to commit suicide after reading Hamlet (Or you know, just want to ban books with queer themes or that depict any form of institutional violence, even if it’s meant to make the reader ask questions about the world around them in a way that might lead them to create positive change. But hey, censorship isn’t censorship if it’s done for the “right” reasons to some people.). I’d much rather be around someone who draws sebaciel or loves books written by authors whose views haven’t aged well and treats real life people well than antis who only enjoy “unproblematic” content and yet harass people.

I’d like to thank you and the others like you who have been supportive (I read the tags on posts like this). I wasn’t eager to log onto tumblr this morning and check my inbox and notes. So far, everything I’ve seen has been very positive and it means a lot.

To those who now think I’m some sort of abuse apologist for these last few posts, ta. Please just block me and move on with your life. If the things I put characters through in my writing or the fact I like fan art of people’s notps is the same as excusing real life abusers in your mind, I doubt there’s anything I’ll be able to say to change your mind until you do some introspection on why you think the conservative rhetoric you’re parroting takes on a new meaning in your mouth.

[not-poignant]

I really like love stories between two men and I'm worried that I'm..fetishizing homosexuality and if that's actually homophobic, because I don't want to be that. Also, I don't particularly have any interest in lesbian love stories and I feel like I should, because otherwise maybe it's internalised misogyny and homophobia? I should mention that I've never seen any really positive heterosexual relationships so that could be partly why I like gay romance so much and reading about it. I don't know

Well, I don’t know either.

I mean I certainly can’t draw any conclusions from a single anon post. :)

These kinds of journeys of self-reflection are necessary, and are actually the kinds of things that antis seek to shut down (making people choose between ‘one side’ or ‘the other side’ and not necessarily seeing that it’s a very complex process and highly individual). It might be a lifelong journey for you, to listen to the answers that come from within, and change your choices as you go, or not change them, or change them a little, and so on.

(Read More because this is a complex topic and my response got long)

Like, I know for myself, my not reading femslash for a long time was a combination of many things. At first I thought it was only internalised misogyny. This is the most obvious choice, given I’m queer, AFAB and and write queer relationships. Then over time, I realised it was partly a lack of choice and stories role-modelled to me too. And that a larger component of my ‘story’ with my relationship with femslash (after deliberately seeking it out and challenging myself) was that, for me, AFAB bodies (assigned female at birth) had been politicised for so long, I just didn’t want to read about AFAB bodies in fiction for a while. Whether het or femslash (though femslash is much easier). It was like part of the journey of escapism for me, was getting to not be in a body that gets politicised in specific ways, even when fanfiction and original authors don’t intend to be part of that global and cultural narrative.

In fact even when they’re working in opposition of that narrative, I still know they’re positioning themselves in opposition to something shitty, and that reminds me something shitty exists. Because of the way my brain works, it makes reading femslash more difficult, less immersive, and less escapist. I’ve learned I can still love femslash! (I’m way more likely to write it than het, for example). But it won’t be my default, at least for some time to come, because I’m still sensitive to the politicisation of AFAB bodies.

I’m sure in amongst that cocktail of things influencing what I enjoy, there are other things that play into it. I continue to read what I enjoy reading (it’s not making me hurt anyone, and it’s not hurting me), and at times will question what I’m looking at. Why I hate reading anything het. Why I only write queer works. Why I love hurt/comfort so much. Why AMAB characters work better for me and what’s playing in behind that. Etc.

As you can see, it’s not by any means simplistic, even when you’re only looking at one facet. Tumblr and ‘The Discourse’ will try and give you simple answers, and will try and corral you into the ‘Good Side’ or the ‘Bad Side’ and they’ll often write checklists of like: ‘if you do this thing (from squeeing about gay male couples, to simply reading m/m fanfiction), you fetishise gay relationships, and are wrong and shitty and bad.’ Anything that tries to reductively simplify something complex, that changes by culture, person, orientation, and more, is probably not going to be a good compass for you.

Though it might prompt you to ask some deeper questions of yourself. You can ask them without something trying to make you feel bad about yourself as a person.

When you’re engaging in fiction, it’s important to remember that a lot of antis and similar will try and convince you that fiction and reality are the same, or that what you like in fiction means you are some how ‘like that’ or enjoy the thing in reality. I have been called a rapist and pedophile because of this. But you don’t see a lot of these antis calling anyone who’s ever killed anything in a video game (basically all of us who have ever played a video game) ‘actual murderers.’

While fiction can influence reality, it is in complex ways that again, change by circumstance and person etc. It’s difficult to talk about because everyone has a different line in the sand. I’ll read fictional fantasy slavery fics, as I love it as a trope, but I acknowledge that slavery tropes in general can be seen as problematic, especially because in real life people have had their lives destroyed by slavery.

Captive Prince is an area, for example, where some people will never read the story on the basis of Damen being an eroticised slave. Others will blindly love it and say there’s nothing wrong with it. For me, I know that it’s a problematic trope that in this specific case is often misinterpreted or looked at through the lens of American Imperialism, which ignores the lived experience of the author. I still enjoy it. It doesn’t make me any more likely to think slavery was right. Because slavery is shitty. Some people think my viewpoint (that I’m going to read it and enjoy the story anyway) isn’t good enough, and isn’t okay. Some people do. Some people think I’m probably making it too ‘political.’

Whatever you decide about what you’re doing, people are going to disagree and/or agree with you about it. And for me you can imagine it comes up again and again because I’m frank about enjoying dubcon and noncon, including titillating noncon, I’ve enjoyed underage as a category (Sebaciel, anyone?), I’ve enjoyed incest (Thorki) and other very problematic tropes. I’ve thought about all of them at length. 

Which is why it’s deeply personal. Ultimately, no one can tell you why you’re doing or thinking or reading certain things. Sometimes you’ll decide that something is too much for you, and sometimes you’ll realise that maybe you had some internalised hatred somewhere and unpack it. Sometimes unpacking it means you can read more freely and with more ease. Sometimes unpacking it means you can’t read it anymore. That’s stuff you can’t know until you come across it.

Anon, if you’re going through this process gently, with self-reflection, it won’t take you days or weeks to figure out. It will be lifelong. It will be ongoing. The landscape will constantly shift as you change and shift and learn. You may come to a happy conclusion about one thing and see a thing beneath it once the smoke clears, and realise you now need to spend time contemplating that thing instead.

In the meantime, people from the sidelines will scream at you and try and convince you that their way of doing things is Right.

It’s good to not know.

It means you’re trying to figure out what’s right for you.

[sableaire]

hello! this might be a little odd to ask since I don't think you've ever talked about this publicly, but I really value your opinion and think you are super well-read so I wondered what your thoughts were on this!!! My gf recently got me into kuroshitsuji, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on sebaciel, as a psychological concept? (I really liked your ks analysis!!! also I don't want you to think I'm asking for an actual analysis or anything I was just curious!!!)

Oh dear, I haven’t read Kuroshitsuji in years. I think I stopped some point near the end of the boarding school arc. Thank you for your kind words, by the way - true or not, I’m glad that is the impression I give off, ahaha.

Just on a surface level, I think the Kuroshitsuji animes were the ones that really leaned into the fanservice. There may have been some scenes in the manga that are evading my memory, but there’s no denying that the anime hinted at it far more heavily. As such, I feel that fans who only watched the anime - or watched the anime first - are more likely to end up shipping SebaCiel. However, I pretty much reject the first two anime and haven’t seen the Book of Circus, so my answer will have to focus on the manga.

Regardless, I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people, fans and non-fans alike, so my response is below the cut: 

My thoughts on the concept of SebaCiel, hm… I can see where people might be getting it, I think, but I don’t necessarily understand it. When I read the manga when I was a teenager, I didn’t realize that people shipped the two characters romantically/sexually. It just didn’t occur to me. 

So personally, when I read Kuroshitsuji, I saw no romantic or sexual chemistry there (and this isn’t even mentioning the fact that Ciel Phantomhive as written is a literal child, aha;;). What I saw in Kuroshitsuji and what appealed to me as a reader was a fascinating power dynamic, wrapped up in a weird business arrangement, and I think there-in lies the issue.

Perhaps it’s just because I’m aroace, but I personally feel that a lot of readers fail to acknowledge that there can be an emotional/mental intimacy in a relationship without romance. Similarly, there is a failure to acknowledge that there can be a power dynamic or obsession without sexual undertones.

From my limited knowledge of the SebaCiel fandom, it seems to me that the ship is built more upon sexual content rather than romantic fluff, which plays into my point. I believe that a lot of people end up shipping SebaCiel because of the underlying power dynamic between the two throughout the entirety of the manga, which many readers automatically associate with sexual themes.

I cannot speak for the intention of the author as to whether Kuroshitsuji is meant to encourage shipping Sebastian and Ciel or not. I do believe she started as a BL author, which could mean that any homoerotic undertones (should they be present; I don’t personally remember any, it’s been a while) are intentional. It could also just mean that she’s so used to drawing them that she doesn’t know how to draw pretty scenes without them, ahaha.

However, from a storytelling perspective myself, I don’t see any grounds for a romantic or sexual relationship between the two. Ciel is wholly focused on his revenge, fully intending to die - a little too busy for romance, and he holds his responsibilities as a noble to a certain esteem, which means that were he not to die, he would probably fully intend to marry his fiancee Elizabeth, without affair.

As for the demon himself, my interpretation at the time of reading - which, again, it’s been years - was that what Sebastian got out of this relationship was Ciel’s own corruption of self. Yeah, he likes the corruption of an innocent soul or whatnot, but what he got out of their weird pact was a front-row seat to Ciel’s self-destructive journey. He is basically ensuring that his favorite cake is baking properly, and his whole interest in Ciel is because Ciel himself is the one corrupting his own soul, without Sebastian’s direct involvement or encouragement.

Since that’s Sebastian’s role in all this, I don’t see it as a strong possibility that he would, I don’t know, seducing Ciel for laughs as a viable option, and if he attempted, I imagine Ciel would firmly shut it down, and if Ciel expresses no interest, Sebastian wouldn’t waste the effort on trying.

Further, I cannot actually imagine Sebastian actually harboring any affection for Ciel. He is a demon, fundamentally different from a human. What he is there for is the promise of one of the best soul meals of his life - he cares for Ciel to the extent I might care for a Michelin star Asian-style Strawberry Shortcake: I’m going to watch the chef, sit in front of the oven and stare at it while it is cooking, make sure it’s decorated to my liking, and I am going to kill anyone who tries to prevent me from eating the whole thing after I waited so long. Heck, I’ll probably kill anyone who even smears the icing. 

However, even without a sexual or romantic component, the two characters do still undeniably have both a power dynamic and a codependence. They both are incredibly prideful, and they are both bonded together despite their personal animosity for a perceived mutually beneficial outcome. Ciel holds power of Sebastian in all the public ways, as the Lord to demon’s Butler, but Ciel is also helplessly reliant on Sebastian when it comes to all the… supernatural stuff… and also not-so-supernatural stuff…

And personally, I love that. I love the stories where one character has all the cards and the other has to swallow their pride to get what they want, and I love stories about one-up-manship, and I love stories about people being forced to rely on one another. However, those dynamics do not have to be sexual, and they do not have to be romantic. Also, possessive behavior does not have to mean romantic/sexual obsession, especially when one character is technically a tool (a means to an end) and the other is literally a food source. I am pretty darn possessive of my laptop computer, and I would be pretty damn possessive over my Michelin-star strawberry shortcake. 

I didn’t actually intend on this being such an effective analogy, but now I am super protective and territorial about this imaginary strawberry shortcake because by god, it has been years since I had a good one.

Still, my theory is that to a lot of people, when presented with a power dynamic in fiction, many readers immediately see a sexual appeal to it in a Dom/sub-esque fashion, and when presented with seeming emotional intimacy, they immediately see romantic potential. And though the author/artist may throw in fanservice, that’s just that - service. It doesn’t discourage the shippers, for sure, but it’s not necessarily support for it either.

Basically, due to modern culture, committed and or intimate and or passionate and or intense relationships in fiction are often perceived to be romantic and or sexual in nature when they do not have to be. Platonic relationships are underrated. Non-sexual hatred and obsession is underrated. 

It could also just be that people are interpreting a business-arrangement-turned-emotionally-invested-relationship narrative as a platonic-relationship-turned-romantic one. I know a lot of people who think of platonic relationships as equivalent to mere acquaintanceship, and there-in might lie the issue. They may fail to perceive Ciel and Sebastian’s escalating emotional involvement (if there was any, I can’t remember) as a step up from a professional relationship. They may instead perceive it as a step up from a platonic one.

Also, Kuroshitsuji is one of those mangas a lot of people discover while young, so that may factor into the enthusiastic fandom and the eagerness for romance, considering most tween/young teen books angling for girls are romantic in nature and that is how many girls are used to relating to their fiction.

Sorry if this wasn’t the kind of answer you meant, and again, it has been years since I properly read the manga. I heard the two-Ciel theory’s been proven true? Fascinating.