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aion-rsa · 4 years ago

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Zack Snyder’s Justice League Ending Explained: The Sequels and DCEU We Never Saw

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This article contains Zack Snyder’s Justice League spoilers.

Zack Snyder’s Justice League is a lot of movie. It’s four hours plus of superhero action with some heavy mythological overtones. And it’s ending isn’t even a single ending to this story…it’s multiple endings. And each of these multiple endings is meant to set up a host of spinoff movies and Justice League sequels that we will unfortunately never get to see!

We’ll consider the “main” ending of the film, the one that wraps up the initial story begun in 2013’s Man of Steel, to be the defeat of Steppenwolf. But from there, we get several epilogues, and that’s where things get even more complicated. There are no post-credits scenes in Zack Snyder’s Justice League because, well, it doesn’t need them, but the “additional endings” kind of serve the same purpose.

So let’s get started…

The Defeat of Steppenwolf

The key to defeating Steppenwolf actually comes much earlier in the movie when Barry is explaining to Bruce some of how his speed works, and his discovery of what he dubs the Speed Force.

“When I approach the speed of light, crazy things happen to time, but when I do it I create massive electrical power.”

It’s that “massive electrical power” that is ultimately used to help “wake” the Mother Box that’s used to resurrect Superman (who himself is, of course, a key to Steppenwolf’s defeat). Barry builds up enough of a head of steam to generate the necessary to spark the Mother Box and charge the chemical soup that brings Superman back to life.

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But there’s another key here, and that’s the “crazy things that happen to time” which comes in later…

With Steppenwolf in possession of all three Mother Boxes, he’s in position to bring about “Unity,” which grants him impossible destructive power, and which would allow Darkseid to easily access Earth and begin his campaign to attain the Anti-Life Equation. Since the Mother Boxes have already been joined, and “Unity” appears to be underway, Cyborg needs to “hack” into them (since some of his power and technology was derived from a Mother Box).

The only problem? Not enough power!

And that’s where Flash comes in. As Barry begins building up the speed necessary to generate the kind of power required for this, he’s hit by a lucky shot from a Parademon, delaying Cyborg’s ability to prevent Unity from happening. In the process, the Mother Boxes unleash a torrent of energy powerful enough to vaporize everything and everyone in its path (and possibly the entire world), including Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Aquaman, and even Superman. Barry witnesses this from afar and with only nanoseconds to act, decides to break his own rule about not surpassing the speed of light, for fear of the “crazy things that happen to time” he mentioned earlier in the film.

Needless to say, Barry succeeds in his goal and seems to reverse time by the necessary few seconds as he approaches the Mother Boxes, reconstituting everyone, delaying the explosion long enough for him to give Cyborg the energy needed to hack the Mother Boxes, and stopping things in their tracks long enough for Aquaman, Superman, and Wonder Woman to send Steppenwolf back home… in pieces.

We’re going to come back to Barry in a minute, but let’s just take a moment here to talk about Steppenwolf’s boss.

Darkseid Will Return

Or… he would have returned if Zack Snyder’s original plan for multiple Justice League movies had come to pass. “When I made the film originally, it was part of a five-part trilogy,” the director recently told Vanity Fair. “There were two more episodes of the Justice League to be shot.”

Darkseid isn’t cowed witnessing Steppenwolf have the extraterrestrial crap beaten out of him by Superman, skewered by Aquaman, and decapitated by Wonder Woman. Instead he calmly tells DeSaad to “ready the armada, we’ll use the old ways,” indicating that he’s ready to just invade Earth the old-fashioned way again with a massive alien army and warships.

Why he feels confident in doing this considering how it ended for him the last time is anyone’s guess, but the fact that he knows for sure that Anti-Life is here probably has something to do with it, along with the fact that he can use the Anti-Life Equation to control Superman, who just proved himself to be the most powerful champion in the galaxy.

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In other words, the Justice League 3 (yes, three…we’ll get to Justice League 2 in a minute…I told you this would be out of order) that we’ll probably never see would have dealt with Darkseid’s second invasion of Earth and his clash with our heroes. What this means now is that the Knightmare sequence from Batman v Superman (and which is revisited in this film) wasn’t just a nightmare after all, but a vision of a possible future in which Darkseid is successful, at least to some degree.

Which brings us to…

Joker, Batman, Knightmare, and more…

In the not-too-distant future we see Batman, once again wearing his desert togs that we saw in his Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice nightmare. He’s joined by Cyborg, Flash (wearing that weird armored get-up that we saw when he visited Bruce with his “too soon?” warning about Lois Lane in BvS), Deathstroke, and Mera. Why this team?

Well, it turns out the vision Cyborg had during the resurrection of Superman (see? I told you it would keep coming back to that moment!) was what would happen if Darkseid was not only successful in his invasion, but in acquiring the Anti-Life Equation. We know from that vision that Wonder Woman is dead, Darkseid skewered Aquaman just as Aquaman skewered Steppenwolf, and Superman is… not a good guy anymore. Apparently, Darkseid vaporized Lois Lane with his Omega Beams and then used the Anti-Life Equation in Superman’s moment of weakness to bend him to his will.

This explains why Superman is “evil” in Batman’s original Knightmare vision from BvS, and explains the wrecked Hall of Justice, the dead Green Lantern, and more from Cyborg’s vision at the moment of his resurrection. Things are apparently so dire that even the Joker, the Clown Prince of Crime and an Agent of Chaos, has thrown in his lot with Batman, the Flash, and all the rest in an attempt to reverse time and save Lois Lane from being obliterated. Hence Joker asking Batman, “You need me to undo this world you created by letting her die. Poor Lois.”

Of course, Joker also hints that the only way to truly undo this is for Batman to ultimately sacrifice himself, and Snyder has indeed said that the plan was for Batman to die at Darkseid’s hands, in his final bid to save Lois. Batman getting fried by Darkseid was a key part of the climax to Grant Morrison’s excellent Final Crisis series, too, but that’s another matter entirely.

And if a ragtag band of heroes and villains fighting an alien invasion and an evil Superman isn’t out there enough for you, Snyder ALSO told Vanity Fair that Batman’s ultimate sacrifice would restore the timeline to where Lois Lane survived…but was pregnant with Bruce’s child. No, not a typo. And then the Justice League trilogy would end with: “Twenty years later, on the anniversary of [Batman’s] death, they take young Bruce Kent down to the Batcave and they say, ‘Your Uncle Bruce would’ve been proud if you did this…something like that.”

Anyway, with this weird potential future stuff out of the way, let’s talk about the more immediate implications of what happened in the ending there.

The Flash and Flashpoint

Barry comes to a realization as he sprints towards Unity that he can “make your own future/your own past/it’s all right now.” When moving at this speed and when he’s this deep in the Speed Force, he perceives time differently than we do.

More importantly, from a wider DCEU standpoint, this is absolutely the moment when Barry realizes that he could potentially change the past. Specifically, he probably wants to go back in time and prevent the murder of his mother, and thus keep his father out of jail. In other words, this is the first seed of what would have been (or will be?) the long-gestating and troubled The Flash solo movie, which will be based on the Flashpoint story.

In Flashpoint, Barry goes back in time, prevents his mother’s murder and…does NOT live happily ever after. Instead, this causes ripples in the timeline that lead to a very strange and unpleasant world, and Barry realizes that maybe he shouldn’t be doing things like that.

The current Flash movie plans (the film is now in the hands of director Andy Muschietti) probably involve Flashpoint in some capacity, since Barry is able to access the multiverse and meets Michael Keaton’s Batman from the Tim Burton movies. So Barry might not have just gone back in time a few seconds here in Zack Snyder’s Justice League, he may have accessed the DC Multiverse itself. That, of course, is another can of worms entirely.

Lex Luthor, Deathstroke, and Batman

Think of this as what would normally be a “mid-credits scene” and a tease for the Justice League 2 that we’ll never see. Lex Luthor escapes from Arkham Asylum (which is a weird place for Lex, but whatever) by using a fakeout move kind of similar to the one Gene Hackman’s Lex pulled in Superman II.

But when next we see Lex, he’s in the recruitment business. His first meeting is with Joe Manganiello as Slade Wilson, better known as Deathstroke. You might remember this scene from the Joss Whedon version of the film, but here it plays out differently. While here, as there, Lex is indeed looking to put together a team of supervillains, he’s a bit more specific here, revealing Batman’s true identity to Slade, who apparently has a grudge against the Dark Knight.

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This was supposed to be the premise of the Batman solo movie when Ben Affleck was still involved as both director and star, but that, like so many other DCEU projects, fell to pieces. It’s a shame, because after Affleck’s terrific performance as Batman in this, that really could have been cool.

Lex earning Deathstroke’s loyalty here by doing him this little favor also would have helped set up Lex’s team-building efforts, which apparently would have paid off in Snyder’s planned Justice League 2.

Martian Manhunter

As we learned earlier in the film, Harry Lennix’s General Swanwick was actually J’onn J’onnz, the Martian Manhunter in disguise. Here, he finally reveals himself (in his true form no less) to the no-longer-xenophobic Bruce Wayne, who is now fully the hero we hoped he would be when he was introduced in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

It’s pretty self-explanatory stuff. Martian Manhunter tells Bruce Darkseid will come for the Anti-Life Equation, lets him know he’ll be around to help, and flies off. Bruce accepts this pretty readily, and we’re ready for a sequel, and for that “unite the seven” marketing prophecy to finally come true.

But while Lennix’s reveal as Martian Manhunter was always intended to be part of this film and Snyder’s DCEU in general, he wasn’t the superhero intended for this scene! Yes, just as Bruce wanted “room for more” at the Justice League headquarters table, this movie would have also introduced an eighth hero.

“We shot a version of this scene with Green Lantern, but the studio really fought me and said, ‘We really don’t want you to do Green Lantern,’” Snyder told Vanity Fair. “So I made a deal with them, and they let me do this [instead].”

The Green Lantern in question would have been John Stewart. But it turns out the studio has long intended for Stewart to be the center of their Green Lantern Corps movie, so according to Snyder, Martian Manhunter “was the compromise.”

Wait, did I say eight heroes? I meant nine!

Ryan Choi is The Atom

In case you were wondering, Ryan Choi, the STAR Labs scientist who works with Silas Stone throughout the film is indeed an important character from the comics. Choi is destined to become the Atom, the shrinking superhero who will one day become a member of the Justice League.

Here, we see him getting granted the position of “director of nanotechnology” for STAR Labs, a role which will certainly lead to some useful discoveries for him down the line. Hopefully someone decides to give Zheng Kai another shot at the role down the line.

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What do you think? Do you still want Zack Snyder’s vision of the DCEU and his plans for Justice League 2 and Justice League 3 to become a reality? Let us know in the comments!

The post Zack Snyder’s Justice League Ending Explained: The Sequels and DCEU We Never Saw appeared first on Den of Geek.

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m00nslippers · 6 years ago

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Jason is a clever bitch and I love him, in RHATO Issue #32

Okay now we’re finally moving Jason closer to the Winick version that I think is most people’s favorite Red hood--it’s not there yet, but we’re seeing the hints. The cleverness, the charm, the unrepentant sass. Oh yes, we are going places, I like what I see.

Let’s dive in here.

Whoever made that post about Jason not even needing a cover story about being dead to revive his identity was kind of prophetic because here his cover is basically, “So I wasn’t actually dead. no more details, that’s it.” Which is pretty dang close.

And I’m not sure how he managed any of this without Bruce or Alfred finding out but that is damn impressive. We know they didn’t know because we see Alfred’s reaction shot to seeing him on TV. If we don’t see him interact with a few of the other Gotham vigilantes, (or at least see a reaction shot of them all like, “What!? Jason?! The guy we had to physically blackmail to attend galas is running a casino with parties every night? That Jason?!) at some point I’m going to be pretty disappointed, to be honest.

Also, as we already knew from the solicitations and previews, Jason is taking over the Iceburg lounge and looking fancy while he does it. I love it. Jason can put on an act with the best of the batboys. Look at this well dressed man! And his hair! He has hair again, praise the Lord, hallelujah!

Completely unrelated note, that reporter has some really fancy cuff earrings or something and I’m jealous.

I’m validated for noticing Suzie Su was behind Jason in the previews. She and her sisters are part of his crew basically. It’s actually nice to see villains/characters return, too often they are just one-shot or one-note baddies but Suzie has been there since New 52 RHATO and she got a bit of humanization in the Annual when we meet her sisters. She’s not just some creepy fat lady that creeps on Jason, she’s a big sister who is trying to do her best for her family and I like that Jason acknowledges that and brings her and her family in on his scheme and even gets them out of the crime business sort-of by giving them mostly legit employment.

The way he has a bunch of ladies following him around kind of reminds me of Dick with the girls from St. Hadrian's a little bit. But they were all super into Dick and these girls don’t seem interested in Jason at all except as like a boss, which I like.

Jason, this is the kind of thing you should ask about! Ugggghh ~

Wingman looked older in the last page of the previous issue for some reason, maybe he’s died his hair or something. So we still don’t know what’s going on with him. I was hoping we’d get something, a hint but we’ve literally got nothing to go on here. I honestly think he has some kind of direct relation to Jason. Either he’s his dad’s mind in a different inmates body, or maybe a lost cousin or brother or something, or has something to do with the future like he came from there. It’s got to be one of those things, nothing else makes sense that I can think of.

LOOK AT MY BEAUTIFUL BOY! JUST LOOK AT HIM. LOOK AT THOSE EYELASHES AND BLUE EYES AND THAT SMILE.

Anyone would be charmed. I think Jason is too much of an introvert to like this kind of public job exactly, but I also think he’d be good at it. Dick might be better, because he’s just a natural extrovert, but Jason is still up there. He’s a good actor, and he really cares about people so he’d take care of those he’s in charge of. Jason would be a good boss.

“Started from the bottom now we’re here,” that’s a Drake lyric.

Could these guys be bigger dorks?

Notice that Jason didn’t kill the guys that were causing trouble, he had Miggs (his nickname for Miguel) roll them off to the docks in a ball made with his powers and those dorks were totally right, the room he made was pretty gucci. You got taste, Miguel.These weren’t necessarily real bad guys, they were just punks, and Jason might be killing again but he doesn’t just kill any idiot that gets in his way or causes trouble.

Also, technically they might have been right about Night cheating, we don’t actually know how ‘legit’ the Su sisters are playing things.

I’m sort of torn on the way the colorist is depicting Miguel’s powers, like I miss the glowiness a little bit from New 52 Teen Titans. These look a little too much like normal bricks? But technically that might be better for Miguel, they can pass as normal bricks instead of a power when they have to. They looked clear or white before when the guys walked in there so maybe he can control their color/transparency and glowiness? I still would like to see them look glowy though.

A few things about Miguel: I think these panels illustrated pretty well what their dynamic is supposed to be. I know Jason called Bizarro his ‘friend’ but let’s be honest here, Bizarro isn’t Jason’s friend--he’s his little brother.

Jason compares Miguel to Bizarro and I think that’s key, he sees Miguel as like a little brother that he wants to help. He’s got powers that he doesn’t understand and people keep coming after him for them. I think with Miguel and Tim it was closer to a friendship of equals at least as far as Miguel saw. He admired and respected Tim as a leader and how he always seemed to know what to do, but in the end Miguel was older than Tim, he didn’t feel like he could completely lean on him. It looks like Miguel may have latched on to Jason in that way, since he has the bat-authority too and actually is older than him and a genuinely caring guy. And look at my boy Jason! He comforts and accepts him immediately, it’s so sweat.

Goddamn it, Jason is a good older brother! He’s the best freaking older brother, damn Bruce and the whole family’s bat-morals, man! You’re all missing this! He could have this with Tim and Damian and Duke and even Steph and Cass! He would love that! He would be so good at that! It’s a goddamn tragedy, is what it is.

Also it’s interesting how Miguel acknowledges the reboots, so are his powers related to reality-warping or something so he can sense it? Or it could just be more of this suggestion that a lot of people in the DC universe right now have memories from the previous continuity, so like it all kind of happened even if it technically didn’t type of thing. I kind of thought Miguel’s powers were energy projections made with his mind, like psionically, but maybe they are literally creating matter or something? I don’t know. I really need to read more New 52 Teen Titans to understand him and his powers.

And that line, “A loaded weapon in the hands of a confused teenager. What could go wrong?”

Wow, Jason, you really went there. Referenced you’re own crazy head-state when you went after Bruce in Under the Hood.

Jason is so self-deprecating, you guys.

“When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer. “ This is apparently a quote from Die Hard, because of course it is. Jason is literally Jake Peralta from Brooklyn 99 confirmed.

Ugh, Lobdell’s version of Bruce is just such an asshole!

First of all, Jason hasn’t ‘betrayed him’ not even once, he was emotionally compromised and broke their agreement because he was acting on those feelings. He made a mistake. And Bruce cared more about his rules than Jason’s intentions or feelings or any of the good will they’d fostered in the last year or two. He acts like Jason sold him out or lied to him, when he never did any of those things.

Also, I don’t think saying, “stay out of Gotham and never come back or I’ll throw down and toss you in Arkham” is another chance, okay? It’s not like Jason got anything out of that deal, it was just Bruce not wanting to go through the trouble of hunting him down outside of Gotham because he straight-up knew that he wouldn’t be able to!

That Pretty Woman reference...

The funny thing is, Jason is more like the character who says that line than Bruce is. Bruce, kicking Jason out of the bat-family, is the one who is making the mistake. He could have had an ally, had say in what Jason did, had some limited control over him if he’d just forgiven him or talked to him at all, but because of his pride now he has none of that.

Now this, this is my shit right here. JASON HAS BRUCE BY THE BALLS. By going public with his identity he’s effectively made himself untouchable by Bruce. He’s got the identity of every Gotham vigilante in his hands, and honestly I really doubt Jason would ever give them up, even out of spite or hatred, he never did before when he could have, (he didn’t tell Hush Bruce’s identity, he just didn’t deny it when Hush figured it out, and we’re not sure if that’s even canon anymore anyway.) but it’s partly Bruce’s own doubt in Jason that is keeping his hands tied! That and the fact that if even one of his kids is outted as a vigilante it really puts the suspicion on him.

But seriously guys. Smart Jason is what Iive for.

God, Jason calling him dad, but only because he’s ‘playing up the act’ of civilian Jason Todd, has got to hurt Bruce. Assuming Lobdell’s version of Bruce has any actual feelings of affection for Jason, otherwise it probably just grates.

Lol, okay, so the situation seems to be that Jason dropped in to the Iceburg lounge to pay Penguin a visit. Cobblepot went, “Oh no! That damned Red Hood is here, hide me!” Ran into his panic room and locked it and Jason was just like, “Well, isn’t this convenient,” and made it so he couldn’t get back out.

And then presumably gangster-rules applied and Jason just got all his businesses because he said they were his and no one wanted to argue? I guess? Lobdell doesn’t give satisfying explanations, you guys. This is a testament to that.

I’m not going to lie though, this is pretty satisfying.

Alright, so I’m really excited for more you guys. This is not a perfect issue, a lot of things are hand waved, Bruce is acting even more out of character than usual, and we still have no dang clue what’s going on with Wingman, but there are definitely things here I like, and i’m looking forward to more.

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psyga315 · 5 years ago

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Fixing RWBY Volume 3

Volume 3 is most likely not going to receive a lot of changes due to how this is the lynchpin for which all other RWBY volumes make or break. It is because of Volume 3 that people were either turned off or were re-engaged by the tonal shift and it is because of Volume 3 for which people compare all other finales to, as well as scenes that were clearly made to recapture that feeling from Volume 3.

So, instead of going episode by episode in trying to change plot elements, I’m going to go in broad strokes with this.

Like before, I’d recommend Celtic Phoenix’s Fixing Volume 3 video, though only for the Vytal Festival Tournament and Cinder’s overall plan. After that, all bets are off.

Though, we need to address the Goliath in the room. Midway through Volume 3’s production, Monty Oum passed away and, if Shane Newville is to be believed (which, given how they used Adam’s V3 fight footage for V6, might be more likely), a lot of stuff was changed last minute, much to Shane’s chagrin. Now, some rewrites would simply go for “let’s go with the original plans” route, but I find that would be not only too easy, but would go into the route of “this is what Monty wanted”, which is not only a stupid complaint in more ways than one, but a real slap in the face to his friends.

Instead, I want to go with a somewhat more… meta route. I understand that this is a little more controversial, so if you wish, you may skip this. The long story short is that we’d be getting a 2.5 where we see the Vytal Festival Tournament and its ulterior motive is to get animators that hopefully would not lead to the fight scene drought of Volumes 4 through 5. Also, Jason Liebrecht is Qrow instead of Vic because Vic was busy in another role by the time RWBY finishes up with 2.5.

Those Who Treasure Monty

We begin in our world, on February 2, 2015, news of Monty Oum’s passing breaks out onto the web and a long, lingering shadow is cast over RWBY’s future. Even with multiple confirmations that RWBY will continue, it’s clear that without Monty Oum’s animation, RWBY would eventually slow to a crawl in fight choreography.

So, RT is forced to make a decision. They need to put RWBY off for a year while they figure out how to proceed. To ensure the RWBY fans stay sated and to search for talent that could either replicate or even succeed Oum’s, they create short, five-minute fights set during the Vytal Festival tournament that anyone with an animating talent can use. While some used Poser like RWBY, the fact that Maya is used more gets RT to thinking… Perhaps they should make the switch to Maya.

It’s been stated that Monty insisted on Poser when Maya was a superior option, and I wanted to reflect that in this meta-arc. This would also pave the way for animators to get RT’s spotlight.

In the middle of this hiatus, we’d also get Grimm Eclipse, which, given how not a lot of attention is given to RWBY proper, means that RT would funnel more support into the game’s first year than they did originally. This might also get Gray to try and put his name out by doing Gen:Lock, or at least releasing teasers for it, much like how Monty hyped RWBY through the four trailers.

The fights are in a purgatory of “semi-canon”, where it technically happened, but don’t expect RT to actually call back to it. Much like the DC Comics. HEY-O!

By the end of this hiatus, RT will most likely get their new talent and will definitely cut ties with Sheena and Shane, much like they did originally, but hopefully with less resentment given the cooldown. RWBY would get an October 2016 premiere which would be predated by RWBY vs. ABRN, JNPR vs. BRNZ, and SSSN vs. NDGO being the final three fights for Volume 2.5, done by people who would end up being lead animators for RWBY going forward. The last of the fights will end on a familiar scene.

“Wow, now that was a match!”

“Pheh, that was a mess…”

The latter of which being delivered by Jason Liebrecht. I reason that, in the time RWBY took to process the passing of their brainfather, Vic would most likely have been in another role and be too busy to do Qrow. This would also avoid the… unfortunate circumstance of which we shall not name.

With that, we shall properly proceed to…

RWBY, Volume 3, The Vytal Festival Arc

By the time 3 kicks off, we’re already done with the first round, having already seen most of it from 2.5. We instead open up with Ruby talking to her mom, the final moments of RWBY vs ABRN, and Ruby and her friends celebrating their victory, much like V3. What changes is that JNPR is also celebrating their victory over BRNZ.

However, it’s clear that not everything is bright. Ruby’s still scarred over the Breach, Blake is frustrated with the lack of closure they got and believes that the case is still not over, and Yang is thinking back to what Raven said, to which we get an extended flashback of Raven explaining that she saved her once and that Yang should not expect her to save Yang again and also how Summer was a pawn in a larger game. She doesn’t say much, but she leaves enough information for Yang to know who Summer was a pawn for: Ozpin.

We end Episode with a ship entering Vytal and Qrow deliberately going over to face it as Weiss looks on in a bright smile. Episode 2 kicks off with Qrow vs. Winter, now being a lot more vicious as Qrow believes Ironwood to be putting his jackboot over Vale and strangling what free will the people had remaining. We get to see his bad luck be put into motion as bystanders get attacked by debris and getting injured in the process. His Semblance is literally uncontrollable. However, the trick is to not show that this is his Semblance until Volume 4.

Glynda and Ironwood arrive and chew out both Winter and Qrow for their fighting. Even though they have differing opinions on Ironwood, Qrow is explicitly told that his drunken fits only help to cause fear, something Ozpin does not want in the Vytal Festival. Qrow brings up that Ironwood’s army is bringing fear and while Ozpin agrees, also agrees with Ironwood that it also brings some form of safety. Bottom line with how the scene plays out is that Qrow, while a valuable asset on the battlefield in more ways than one is outright a liability in social situations, made apparent when he hangs out with his niece(s) and only makes a bad situation worse by making his “cut one Taijitu head and now the other one calls the shots” speech sound way worse than it sounds.

However, there’s also subtle nods that imply that the only reason he’s such a drunken wreck with social skills so bad that he’s actively making things worse is because of the trauma he received from his days of being in STRQ and serving Oz. Basically, downplay the comedy of Qrow being drunk and show off that Qrow being drunk is a bad thing like in Volume 6.

Winter also has her hangups. Because of being raised by her abusive father, Winter inherited a bit of that. Think the DC Comics version of Willow. Weiss notably sees just how much like her father Winter’s become and Winter tells her that her ambition of being a Huntress has done more harm than good, bringing up her scar. Winter then tells her why she came. Not just to oversee the deployment of new robots, but also to warn Weiss. Jacques cutting Weiss off and constantly calling her is his way of saying “Okay, this is getting out of hand, come home or I will take you myself.” This kinda worries Weiss quite a bit.

The doubles match are the ones that are a major focus for episodes 3 & 4, showcasing Yang and Weiss vs. Neon and Flynt, Nora and Pyrrha vs. Sun and Neptune, Mercury and Emerald vs. Coco and Yatsuhashi, and Penny and Ciel vs. some random members of CRDL. Not a lot of changes here. With a whole episode to ourselves, we can spend that to see our cast one final time before the plot throws them into hell. Weiss talks to Ruby about her father, she assures her that RWBY will not leave her side. Blake tells Yang about her worries for the White Fang, especially since her name had been publicized by the tournament, even knowing that Yang is hiding something.

We end the episode with Glynda asking Ozpin if he’s sure about something and he reassures her that time is of the essence and that they have no other option. “The only one with a choice will be her.” Before we cut to Pyrrha.

Episode 6 is unaltered, except there’s a heavier emphasis of Ozpin pushing the issue onto Pyrrha and making it clear that it’s making her mentally unstable.

RWBY, Volume 3, The Fall of Beacon

Okay, the only thing that changes for Episode 7? NO BLACK SCREENS! It works for some mystery with the Grimm and Salem, but for meeting Roman?! So, no black screen. If you need to add mystery, just add dark shadows and for the Grimm, glowing eyes. The biggest change would be how Cinder interacts with Adam. Obviously, we keep how he acts in the flashback… But we get a bonus scene of Cinder talking to Adam and manipulating him into resenting Blake for leaving him. Boom. We got our transition covered.

The only change for Episode 8 is that Blake doesn’t go “lol, okay” when she gets Yang to say she’s sorry for kneecapping Mercury. In fact, she expresses doubt on Yang and does not change her mind about it, believing that the thing she was hiding had something to do with injuring Mercury. We end Episode 8 not with Ruby encountering Mercury, but Hazel.

Episode 9 remains relatively unchanged, as it’s the necessary lynchpin to cause the Fall of Beacon. Really, most of the final act can remain unchanged for the most part, save for some quality of life changes like “how come no one called out Emerald when she was in the middle of the crowd even though they were told that her team went home?” or all those tiny nitpicks that really makes Cinder’s plan fall apart if you think too hard about it.

The most that changes is that Hazel fights Ruby reluctantly. Obviously, he doesn’t want to fight Gretchen’s partner. Cinder would have no idea Ruby’s incompetence led to Gretchen’s death, so Hazel wouldn’t use that to guilt trip Ruby. He does, however, rant about the flawed system that Ozpin has made and it’s clear that this is him talking about how flawed the system is, not Cinder whispering sweet nothings in his ear. He lets Ruby go just as the fight between Pyrrha and Penny ends.

Yeah, this still takes place despite Cinder not knowing, since she lacks her virus for now. Cinder is smart and is able to put two and two together when she sees that Penny is doing a lot of the heavy lifting during her fights. I mean, it was obvious to us that she was a robot from Volume 1, Cinder didn’t need no fancy scroll to tell her “hey, Penny’s a robot.”

I should add that, throughout the tournament, Cinder had been rigging the tournament so that it’d come down to Vale vs. Atlas, using the narrative of the Breach to set the stage. She’s also making sure the losses for Mistral and Vacuo sting so the Grimm get attracted sooner. How is she doing this? Via the backdoor program she had. As I said previously, the virus feigns being dead and can only be reactivated by a backdoor program. However, this isn’t the full extent. Cinder is basically using the program to activate a few nodes in the CCT to rig the randomizer enough so that no one stops and goes “wait, this is fishy”. It doesn’t help that the way the tournament is held, each Kingdom representative is guaranteed to face an opposing Kingdom once per round, so if one Kingdom was really good, they’ll overcrowd the subsequent doubles and finals. Two Kingdoms? Then you essentially guarantee that the rest of the fights can be nothing but Kingdom A vs. Kingdom B.

Penny is killed and this becomes the straw that broke the camel’s back. I also would make it so that her big speech, while imposing and setting the tone for the fall, doesn’t sound like “I’m the big bad evil guy and I’m going to announce my terrorist attack!” Also, Adam can get involved too, saying how humans are so sad over a dead robot, but when it’s a Faunus, no one gives a crap, white guilting the crowd. When the Beacon staff cut the feed, Cinder goes “OMG! CENSORSHIP!” and riles up the crowd that way. Basically, her speech causes fear and panic. The Grimm and White Fang attack, we kick off the Fall of Beacon Arc.

One major change to kick off the finale: Port and Oobleck are killed. It doesn’t have to be shown, but it would be implied as Ozpin notices that he lost contact of the two. Really, this is your chance to get rid of all the characters that won’t make an appearance in later Volumes or wouldn’t really matter. After all, there will be no rest or love. Hell, kill off CFVY while you’re at it. Hammer home that the dark tone is here to stay. Also, the backdoor is the thing Roman puts on that ship and thus reactivates the virus.

Of course, the major change is Adam’s fight with Blake, since they fought before. Blake tries desperately to ask why he’s hurting people, but Adam gives her his response: “Because this world doesn’t reward the kind-hearted people. You should know that after what happened to your father!” This puts Blake in a lot of fear and anxiety, requiring Yang to interfere. The one thing I’ll change from this is that Adam does not one-shot Yang, because that horribly unbalances him in the grand scheme of things. Instead, he relies more on manipulation to put Yang in the absolute worst spot throughout the fight, absorbing the increased blows he got from Yang before letting it all out in his Moonslice, taking off her arm.

The other major thing I’d change is the handling of Pyrrha. The bit where they’re underground changes immensely as Ozpin explicitly instructs Jaune to wait by the door, thus separating him from Pyrrha. Ozpin and Pyrrha go to the pods, but as Pyrrha begins to have second thoughts, Ozpin activates the switch as Pyrrha screams in pain.

Meanwhile, Jaune finds Cinder entering the chamber via a superhero landing (No one’s gonna acknowledge that she managed to follow the group down a longass shaft?) and as Jaune tries to fight Cinder, realizing she’s the one who organized all of this, she tells him “I didn’t cause this… I merely exposed Ozpin for what he truly is… Arrogant and willing do to anything to win.” Jaune pieces together what Cinder could possibly mean and enters the chamber, seeing Pyrrha in pain. Just then, Cinder kills Amber and takes her power.

Ozpin decides to hold Cinder off while Jaune and Pyrrha go to get help. While this will be revealed in Volume 5, it’ll be revealed that Ozpin threw his battle with Cinder so that, not only would he reincarnate quicker, but also to avoid the Council chewing his ass out. This leads to the consequence of Cinder forcing Pyrrha’s hand, however…

Like with the show, Pyrrha fights Cinder by herself since Jaune did enough. We’ll have him try to contact Glynda and the others, but they’re unfortunately busy and it’s this poor communication that causes Jaune to panic call Weiss. The fight proceeds like normal and Pyrrha is killed by Cinder, making her sacrifice seemingly in vain before Ruby, having enough with all this bullshit, Silver Eyes the fuck out of Cinder and the Dragon, turning the latter to stone and Cinder into a cripple.

Ending remains the same, but give a lot more emphasis on Ruby and Yang coping with the new change and the losses of their friends. One day, Jaune comes by and asks Ruby if she and Yang would like to accompany them to Mistral, figuring that Cinder came from there and that they’d be able to find some answers. Ruby, having had enough of moping around, leaves much to her father’s chagrin. Salem’s speech remains the same and we get two stingers, split by Divide and Cold. Divide’s credits would be for the Volume and Cold would be for all the animators who helped out during Volume 2.5 and a tribute to Monty. The first stinger is Qrow following RNJR in bird form, the second is Cinder, literally on the edge of death before the parasite Grimm begins to heal and nurture her. She’s furious that Ruby managed to hurt her and this negative emotion causes a Grimm to stalk her. She tries to sing to it, but her voice gives out a rasp.

Just as the Grimm is about to kill her, it gets killed by an unknown assailant, who just scoffs to Cinder. We don’t know who it is, but the shadow of a scorpion’s tail and the creepy voice pretty much gives those with foresight a good idea who he is: “Poor, poor little girl… Bit off more than you can chew, hmmm?” before cutting to black with him giggling.

DVD Extra

This would basically be an encore of Volume 2.5, where animators that nearly made the cut were invited to animate doubles and finals battles and even have a speculative RWBY vs. JNPR battle for ol’ time’s sake.

And that’s RWBY Volume 3 tweaked. Only two more left to go and they’re the most… interesting ones to tweak. Well, with this isolation, I might as well give a little bit of time to this…

#RWDE #RWBY #Rewrite #RWBY Rewrite

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the-desolated-quill · 6 years ago

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We Need To Talk About James Gunn - Quill’s Scribbles

This could prove to be the most controversial Scribble I’ve ever written on this blog, and the sad thing is it really shouldn’t be, in my opinion.

First off, a couple of disclaimers because I know some people are going to accuse me of ‘bias’. I’ve never been very fond of James Gunn as a filmmaker, it’s true. I thought the first Guardians Of The Galaxy movie was okay at best and I absolutely hated the sequel, but I confess that’s less to do with any inherent flaws in the films themselves and more to do with the fact that I just don’t like Gunn’s style of humour. Oh don’t get me wrong. There are still legitimate problems, which I’ll go into later when they become relevant, but I’m big enough to admit that my dislike for his brand of comedy and storytelling is merely due to my own subjective tastes (the same is true of Taika Waititi and Thor: Ragnarok).

Okay. So. Let’s talk about James Gunn.

As I’m sure most of you know, in July 2018, an alt-right conspiracy theorist called Mike Cernovich unearthed tweets made by Gunn between 2008 and 2012 where he made offensive jokes and remarks about sensitive topics such as rape, child abuse and paedophilia. While James Gunn did apologise and vowed to ‘do better,’ Disney, fearing the public backlash, fired Gunn as director of Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 3 and dismissed him from any role in producing and expanding Marvel’s planned ‘Cosmic Universe.’ The result was the public backlash Disney were trying to avoid in the first place. They received a lot of criticism from various entertainers and filmmakers, as well as many media outlets such as Collider and The Independent, the cast of Guardians wrote a letter urging Disney to reconsider their decision with Dave Bautista in particular being very vocal in his criticism, and there was a massive outcry from fans who petitioned for Gunn to be rehired. Guy Lodge, writing for The Guardian, asked the question ‘Was James Gunn the first undeserving victim of Hollywood’s new zero tolerance policy?’ Now I’d argue the answer to that question is a definitive no, but apparently, and surprisingly, that’s not a very popular opinion among liberals. So I’d very much like to challenge them as we explore James Gunn’s moral character and ask ourselves why he’s being defended so passionately.

Before we go any further, I think it would be a good idea for me to show you some of the tweets that we’re talking about, just to remind everyone what we’re dealing with here.

Now I hope we can all agree that this is objectively disgusting. Only an amoral, depraved and utterly moronic individual would find offensive tweets like these even remotely funny. But I should make it clear that, by James Gunn’s own admission, these tweets represent who he was rather than who he is. In his apology, he described himself as a ‘provocateur’ during the early days of his career, making shocking statements for the purposes of ‘satire.’ But it’s okay because he’s a better person who has grown and matured fully and will never do this again. Fair enough, you’d think. He admitted what he did was wrong and apologised profusely. That was a very honourable and decent thing to do.

Except we’ve seen this song and dance before.

In 2012, roundabout when Marvel announced they were making a Guardians Of The Galaxy movie with James Gunn directing, an old blog post of Gunn’s resurfaced entitled ‘The 50 Superheroes You Most Want To Have Sex With.’ The original post has since been deleted, but cached versions still exist here and there around the internet if you know where to look. Here are a few quotes from said blog:

[on natasha romanoff, the highest ~debut] “considering she’s fucked half the guys in the marvel universe, that’s quite a feat”

[on batwoman] “i’m hoping for a dc-marvel crossover so that tony stark can turn her; she could also have sex with nightwing and still be a lesbian”

”Many of the people who voted for the Flash were gay men. I have no idea why this is. But I do know if I was going to get fucked in the butt I too would want it to be by someone who would get it over with quick.”

Needless to say, this was quite offensive and causing bad PR, so James Gunn issued an apology:

“A couple of years ago I wrote a blog that was meant to be satirical and funny. In rereading it over the past day I don’t think it’s funny. The attempted humor in the blog does not represent my actual feelings. However, I can see where statements were poorly worded and offensive to many. I’m sorry and regret making them at all.

People who are familiar with me as evidenced by my Facebook page and other mediums know that I’m an outspoken proponent for the rights of the gay and lesbian community, women and anyone who feels disenfranchised, and it kills me that some other outsider like myself, despite his or her gender or sexuality, might feel hurt or attacked by something I said. We’re all in the same camp, and I want to do my best to make this world a better place for all of us. I’m learning all the time. I promise to be more careful with my words in the future. And I will do my best to be funnier as well. Much love to all – James”

Sound familiar?

Now of course it’s unfair to judge the man based on past actions that he himself apologised for. What matters is the present. Whether or not he has demonstrated to a reasonable standard that his work has grown and matured and that his offensive idiocy is a thing of the past. So let’s look at the Guardians Of The Galaxy movies.

While the first movie received critical acclaim, a few people (particularly fans of the source material) complained about how Gamora was treated. The so called ‘most powerful woman in the galaxy’ was reduced to a love interest, an occasional damsel in distress and there were a few odd occasions where she was objectified and degraded based on her sexual history. The most prominent example of which is when Drax describes her as ‘a green whore.’ The context being that he was ignorant of how offensive he was being despite trying to compliment her and call her a friend, and this was played for laughs in the movie. The second movie has more examples. Gamora’s role still paled in comparison to the role she played in the comics, and a new female character called Mantis was introduced whose power level from the comics was also significantly reduced for the movie and whose character was effectively reduced to be a punchline/punching bag. There’s also a scene involving Drax where he frequently describes her as ugly, saying that "when you're ugly and someone loves you, you know they love you for who you are. Beautiful people never know who to trust." Again this is played for laughs. Except I’d argue that an adult man constantly fixating on a woman’s appearance isn’t even remotely funny.

Another disturbing aspect of the Guardians 2 was the way it seemed to romanticise and excuse abusive relationships. Obviously there’s Drax and Mantis, but the biggest example is Star Lord and Yondu. The first movie did a reasonably good job establishing what drew Star Lord and Gamora together. They were both trying to escape from abusive father figures. The second film does a complete U-turn, calling Yondu Star Lord’s ‘David Hasselhoff’ and giving him a gratuitous and overly sentimental funeral as though he were a noble hero. While I’m sure the death of Yondu would emotionally impact Star Lord to a certain extent (he did raise the kid after all), to say that he’s like ‘David Hasselhoff’ because he’s a better dad than Ego the Living Planet was seems like a very low bar to clear. By that logic, Hitler was a good person because he didn’t kill as many people as Stalin did. It’s tone deaf, lacking in nuance and just a little bit insulting.

Bearing all this in mind, has James Gunn grown and matured since the period between 2008 and 2012? That’s for you to judge. I’d personally argue he hasn’t. Sure he’s no longer as extreme or provocative as he once was, but that’s not necessarily proof that he’s matured. Rather he’s just gotten better at hiding his immaturity. And in my own subjective opinion, based on his work, I think Disney made the right decision in sacking him. Now let me be clear, I don’t think Disney sacked him in order to take a moral stand as a lot of the problematic elements in the Guardians films have carried over into other MCU films. Gamora is still treated like shit in Avengers: Infinity War, and Thanos, who, like Yondu, was clearly established in the first Guardians movie as an abusive father figure, has been woobified and turned into a kind of sympathetic anti villain who actually cared about his daughter and only killed her because he had no other choice (as opposed to, you know, because he is a maniacal despot who’s a few Oompa Loompas short of a chocolate factory). The reason Gunn was fired was because of bad PR. Disney had dealt with this shit before in 2012 and they weren’t prepared to deal with it again, so they dropped the baggage, as it were. It’s a very common occurrence in Hollywood. Which is what makes the public backlash against this decision so puzzling to me.

I can understand being upset that the director of your favourite franchise has been fired, but can we try to get some perspective here? What happened to Gunn is nothing unique. This kind of thing happens all the time. A filmmaker does something controversial or has been revealed to have done something controversial in the past, the studio sacks them in an attempt to save face and everyone gets on with their lives. The situation with James Gunn is no different. The only reason I can see why people are so passionately against this is because of how these tweets were unearthed in the first place. Because the discoverer of the tweets, Mike Cernovich, is a member of the alt-right, the liberal community seem predisposed to dismiss this out of hand, which I think is incredibly dangerous. Okay, yes, Cernovich is a Nazi and almost certainly didn’t do this out of the goodness of his heart, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. It doesn’t change the fact that the tweets still exist and that they’re still incredibly offensive. And all the things I’ve heard people say in defence of James Gunn sound very similar to things the right would say about the likes of Brett Cavanaugh and Donald Trump. ‘It was x number of years ago.’ ‘It’s not relevant to who he is now.’ ‘He’s changed.’ ‘You can’t judge someone based on their past mistakes.’ I mean... come on guys! Either everyone should be held to the same standard or nobody should be held to standards at all. You can’t just change tact just because the person in question has the same political ideals as you. What are we saying? It’s okay for liberals to hold conservatives accountable for past actions and behaviour, but the right can’t do it to the left because apparently it’s not as funny when they do it? It’s classic ‘them and us’ mentality and it’s got to stop.

So, why am I bringing all this up, you may be asking? This happened over six months ago Quill. Aren’t you a little late to the party? Well a couple of days ago, it was announced that Warner Bros and DC Films had hired James Gunn to write and direct a sequel to Suicide Squad.

Well... sequel isn’t quite the right word. Apparently it’s more along the lines of a reimagining. Titled ‘The Suicide Squad’, the film is going to follow a whole new cast of characters and effectively start from scratch. No doubt this is part of WB and DC’s attempts to salvage the DC Extended Universe after the critical and financial disaster that was Justice League, as well as a response to people’s criticisms of the previous Suicide Squad film.

Writer/director David Ayer’s version of Suicide Squad was... let’s be charitable and call it problematic. Many people criticised the film for being misogynistic, borderline racist due to the one dimensional characterisation, and particular outrage was directed toward Ayer’s attempts to romanticise the relationship between the Joker and Harley Quinn. So it’s quite ironic that WB and DC are relying on James Gunn - James Gunn?!?! - to fix Suicide Squad when similar criticisms have been made toward the Guardians Of The Galaxy movies. That’s like hiring Harvey Weinstein to investigate sexual harassment claims.

And do you know what the funny thing is? We’ve been in this exact same situation before. In February 2017, news media started to report that WB and DC were eyeing Mel Gibson, the Oscar nominated director of Hawksaw Ridge and professional arsehole, to direct Suicide Squad 2. I even wrote a Scribble on it then. I heavily criticised WB and DC for caring more about snagging an Oscar nominated director to bolster their failing franchise than about holding certain ethical standards of decency within the industry. Oh, sure, Gibson has said many sexist, homophobic and antisemitic comments for years and has never at any point showed any hint of remorse for the amount of offence he’s caused, but he just made a good movie about Spider-Man fighting in World War II, so it all balances out, doesn’t it? We’re good, right? We’re cool. Gibson’s cool now. Yeah?

And now here we are seeing this play out again. James Gunn, a man who has said some incredibly offensive things over the years, is being hired by WB and DC to helm a new Suicide Squad movie and conveniently ignoring all the problematic shit surrounding him because he’s the guy that made those sci-fi films about the talking raccoon. People love those films. Let’s get him on board.

I’m getting so sick to death of actors and filmmakers getting away with shit and avoiding the consequences of their actions. James Gunn and his offensive tweets, Mel Gibson and his shitty behaviour, Kevin Hart and his temper tantrum when he was expected to apologise for being a homophobic prick. And the few times there are consequences for said actions, people of influence within the industry end up undermining it. WB and DC hiring James Gunn so soon after he was sacked by Disney, and Ellen fucking Degeneres ringing the Academy and persuading them to let Kevin Hart host the Oscars. Thankfully, and to his genuine credit, Hart turned it down, but seriously, what the actual fuck Ellen?! You’re LGBT, aren’t you? Why are you giving him a free pass? Do you have short term memory loss like the fish you voice in Finding fucking Nemo? Jesus Christ!

Finally, to people saying that Disney treated James Gunn too harshly for the tweets, may I remind you that when ‘The 50 Superheroes You Most Want To Have Sex With’ resurfaced in 2012, Disney still kept him on! He still got to write and direct two Marvel movies before finally getting the sack. And he was in talks to lead production in all future ‘Cosmic’ Marvel movies going forward before the resurfaced tweets made that impossible. Too harshly? I think he got off extremely lightly, frankly. I think he’s grotesquely lucky he’s still got a job at all. Let alone a job where he continues to direct tentpole blockbusters. For someone who was treated ‘too harshly’, he’s sure done alright for himself, hasn’t he? He’s not Oliver Twist begging movie studios to give him a film, cap in hand, ‘please sir, may I have some more?’ His position hasn’t changed one iota. That’s what we should be pissed off at. Not that he’s being unfairly punished. That he’s not being punished enough roughly seven years after the fact.

So what should we take away from all this? That we need to hold everyone accountable for their past actions and behaviour, regardless of whether they share our political beliefs or whether they were involved in films we actually like, and that the industry needs to do a better job of upholding the consequences of said actions. And regardless of whether you thought Disney were right to sack James Gunn, it cannot be denied that WB and DC handing the keys of another profitable franchise over to him so soon after this controversy is an incredibly irresponsible thing to do.

#anti james gunn #suicide squad #the suicide squad #guardians of the galaxy #dc extended universe #marvel cinematic universe #disney #quill's scribbles

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inhumansforever · 6 years ago

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Marvel Rising: Initiation Review

spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers spoilers

Disney XD premiered the first installment of the Marvel Rising Secret Warriors animated series with past Monday with the very enjoyable Initiation; directed by Alfred Gimeno with a screenplay by Mairghread Scott and the vatic talents of Dove Cameron, Chloe Bennet, Tyler Posey, Kathreen Khavari, Milana Vayntrub, Cierra Ramirez and Kamil McFadden. Quick recap and review following the jump.

The Mysterious Ghost Spider is on the run with the authorities believing her responsible for the death of a young man named Kevin. After handily defeating a battalion of the city’s best police officers, Captain Stacy chooses to request assistance from Shield. Agent Daisy Johnson and Patriot are assigned to the case and pledge not to rest until this hero-turned-villain can be brought to justice. Patriot is a newer hero who has been trained by Captain America himself and is quite eager to prove himself. Daisy, meanwhile, is more seasoned and right from the start she suspects there might be more to this case than simply a former hero gone bad.

It’s rather clear from the onset that Ghost Spider is not a villain, rather it is an unfortunate set of circumstances that has made it appear as though she was responsible for Kevin’s death. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ghost Spider is actually high schooler, Gwen Stacy, and Kevin had been her best friend.

Following an oddly shoe-horned in scene where Gwen practices with her and her friends’ garage band, Ghost Spider returns to the streets in search of the real culprit behind Kevin’s death. She encounters Patriot, and following a brief skirmish, Ghost Spider is able to escape.

Elsewhere, Doreen Green arrives on her scooter with a box of cupcakes meant to commemorate the triumphant first team-up between her, The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, and her new best pal, Kamala ‘Ms. Marvel’ Khan. Doreen’s squirrel buddy, Tippy Toe, is also on-hand and doesn’t want to wait for Kamala to arrive before getting into one of those delicious cupcakes.

Kamala arrives and the focus of their first mission together presents itself when they see Ghost Spider and set out to bring her to justice. An elaborate and rather silly battle unfolds as Ms. Marvel, Squirrel Girl and Tippy Toe match up against Ghost Spider.

Ghost Spider is eventually captured and pleads to be let go, demanding that she is innocent. Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl agree to hear her out. Ghost Spider explains that she would never hurt Kevin, he had been her best friend. He was also an Inhuman who was transformed by way of the Terrigen Cloud. Terrigenesis endowed Kevin with ice powers and Ghost Spider helped him hone these newfound abilities so that they might be crimefighters together.

Yet on the night of their first outing, Ghost Spider arrived to find that Kevin had been murdered. The apparent culprit was a super powered woman with yellow skin and green hair who wielded energy knives. Even the slightest cut from these knives had the effect of effectively draining one’s life energy.

Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl believe Ghost Spider’s story and chose to let her go, agreeing to also seek out this mysterious villain who is actually behind Kevin’s death. Shortly thereafter, Ghost Spider is once more engaged by The Patriot. This time, however, Patriot utilizes teamwork and lures Ghost Spider into a position where Agent Johnson can sneak up behind her and neutralize her with her quake powers.

Ghost Spider is apprehended by the two agents and taken by car to police headquarters where she is to be handed over to Captain Stacy. Again Ghost Spider proclaims her innocence, telling the story of the mysterious villainess with the life-draining energy knives. Daisy is intrigued by the tale… she has heard about evil Inhumans with similar powers and Kevin’s death may have something to do with an ongoing case she has been investigating. Furthermore, upon reading Ghost Spider’s reaction to seeing Captain Stacy, Daisy correctly surmises that Ghost Spider is actually Captain Stacy’s daughter, Gwen.

Daisy furtively arranges for Ghost Spider to escape just as she is delivered to police headquarters. Captain Stacy is incensed and demands that Shield stop at nothing to bring her in.

Some time thereafter, Ghost Spider seeks out Daisy and asks her why she allowed her to escape. Daisy explains her suspicions that Kevin’s death may be part of a bigger threat posed by an evil Inhuman, and that she may actually need Ghost Spider’s aide in taking down this threat. Daisy tells Ghost Spider to continue her investigation and to keep her apprised of things, especially if it entails an Inhuman with teleportation-based powers. Ghost Spider agrees and they part company. And it is hear that the episode comes to an end with it looking quite likely that the mystery will once again bring these various heroes together in future installments.

This was a quick, fun and very enjoyable affair. It moves quite fast but its speed doesn’t come at the cost of the plot. It sort of drops the viewer right into the heart of the action and has faith that said viewers will be able to piece things together on their own as further details of the plot are divvied out. I quite like this approach, especially in lieu of other animated shows aimed toward younger audiences that sort of treat the viewer as simpletons who need the plot clearly laid out.

This first episode is very much a Ghost Spider story and Gwen makes for a highly likable protagonist. Voice actress, Dove Cameron, does a terrific job bringing Gwen to life, with snarky commentary, good comic timing, as well as a distinctive undertone of sadness (sadness based on the death of her best friend, Kevin). Fans of the Spider-Gwen comic series are likely to very much enjoy this animated version of the character; it’s quite faithful to her personality in the comics.

The story takes a few more liberties with the Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel. Squirrel Girl acts as the comic relief, bubbling with enthusiasm and goofy energy. She’s a good deal less thoughtful than her comic book counterpart. The comic book version of Squirrel Girl always seeks out a nonviolent solution to problems before resorting to fisticuffs, yet this animated version is quite eager to battle Ghost Spider.

Milana Vayntrub clearly has a lot of fun voicing Squirrel Girl and isn’t at all shy about hamming it up. There is a particularly funny bit where Squirrel Girl decides that their battle-moves would be more effective were they to call them out the way they do in popular anime, like Dragonball or Naruto.

I also like that Squirrel Girl is illustrated as more full-figured… although it sort of bugs me that the bigger girl ends up being the goofier, comic relief (it’s a tired trope).

Squirrel Girl’s jokes and shenanigans sort of overshadow Ms. Marvel and she doesn’t get much of a focus in the episode. Kathreen Khavari voices Kamala, reprising the role from Ms. M’s appearances in Avengers Assemble. I’m definitely looking forwards to seeing Ms. Marvel get more screen time as the series progresses.

Kamil McFadden voices Patriot and, next to Ghost Spider, is the character who gets the most spotlight. Patriot takes himself quite seriously. He’s ready to prove himself and is quite proud of the fact that he had been trained by Captain America. At the same time, however, there is also an edge of insecurity to Patriot, possibly a worry that he might not live up to his potential. It’s an edge that makes him a more compelling character as opposed to someone whose cockiness might cause one to root against him. There is also a touch of flirtation in his and Ghost Spider’s banter… I wonder if this is a hint toward a possible romance between the two later down the line.

Chloe Bennet is very much at ease in the role of Daisy. She plays her as shrewd and cunning. She’s a much more experienced agent compared to her partner, Patriot, and ready to take calculated risks to get to the bottom of things. It’s a neat take on Daisy and a bit of a departure from the more leap-first-look-later version of her we last saw in the pages of Matt Rosenberg’s Secret Warriors run. Like Ms. Marvel, I’m looking forward to seeing what the next installments have in store for Daisy.

The villain who killed Kevin looks a good deal like the Inhuman baddie called Sheath, although it is possible that she is actually a brand new character. And it seems likely that the big bad of the arc will end up being the dark force wielding cad known as The Exile.

The animation is fair. It’s a step above more recent Marvel animated projects, like Avengers Assembled and Hulk Agents of Smash, but not as stellar as similar outings from DC (such as Young Justice or Batman: The Animated Series). It’s good, but not great. The backgrounds are rather static and nothing to write home about, but the action is fluid and dynamic. Squirrel Girl’s accentuated facial expressions showcase the best part of the animation.

All in all, Marvel Rising Initiation is absolutely worth checking out. It’s a fun detour into the world of the lessor well known Marvel heroes, with a refreshingly diverse cast of characters and an intriguing plot. Definitely recommended. Four out of five Lockjaws

#Marvel Rising #marvel rising: initiation #Inhumans #review #spoilers

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darkspellmaster · 6 years ago

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Young Justice Theory: Connections to the Crisis Quartet....

So about this rather interesting spoiler I discovered thanks to the CBR board... Better safe than sorry on this one because if this turns out to be true then it’s a doozy of a situation that the crew is going to be put into. So a fair warning before you dive in...there are spoilers below to several DC comic events: Identity Crisis, Count down to Infinite Crisis, Infinite Crisis, Identity Crisis, Crisis on Infinite Earths, 52, Countdown to Final Crisis and Final Crisis.

These stories contain: Death, some gore, and at least one has a rather unpleasant factor of rape being involved as part of it’s story. Because I’m going to be discussing the above things partly in this and there will be pictures that might upset some people I just want to give people a heads up. You have been warned going in.

Okay so what the hell am I going on about and honestly when I was reading this I was freaking out. So a post of so ago I mentioned some theories about this season and talked about the possibility of the Anti life equation factoring into the story. Thanks to the gallery for the next three episodes, this wonderful post here from Spitfire or Bust, the Behind the scenes footage from this season on the DCUniverse, a post on CBR’s forums, and a link to young justice.tv spoilers, I can almost 90% say Seasons 3 and 4 and possibly 5 will be dealing with the Crisis Quartet, or at least three of them, from DC’s main comics.

We know that this is going to be a thing as Greg already confirmed in season 2 that season 3 was going to deal with Apokolips, just not how much directly (as this story can’t be told in 26 episodes, no way in hell it would be horribly paced).

We also know that the names of the episodes have been pretty much confirmed as Episode 11 is Called Home Fires and the Behind the Scenes image confirmed the title in the image that we see with Iris and Bart.

The site in question has it as episode 9, however this confirms it as Episode 11. However they have the others right so far, so either BTS got the number wrong or the site did. Doesn’t change the factor that there’s some thing interesting in the titles.

Take each of the first letter of the first word of the names of the titles, and you get:

Prepare the Anti Life Equation.

This little message, has ties not only to Apokolips and Darkseid, but it also has ties directly to the Crisis Quartet and the fall out that happened after.

So first what is the Quartet? Well it is a group of four Crisis that happened in DC comics, three of which were between 2004 to 2010, while the first happened in 1985 -1986 and affected all stories that followed going forward after it.

So to simplify things. Here’s a fast rundown on the important factors about these Crisis and their connections to YJ Season 3, 4 and maybe 5 if things go well.

So Way back in the 1980s DC was having issue with keeping up with it’s own continuity because there was so many books and worlds. Because of this and their own anniversary coming up they tasked then Teen Titan’s writers Marv Wolfman and artist/co-writer Jorge Perez, to come up with an event that would solidify the DCU’s continuity. These two came up with:

Crisis on Infinite Earths:

Now this story while really important as the backbone in the main DCU going forward doesn’t have as much to do with YJ in the long run as of yet. But it does have some important factors that will be coming into play I think later on, and we already saw a part of this happening in Season 2 with Walley vanishing. So bullet points ahoy for only the things that are important in this story for later in comments.

Short and long of it is that a being named the monitor trying to stop another creature named the Anti-monitor from destroying the Universe. All the different DC worlds come together to fight him, Super-girl dies, along with several other characters, during this event where all the worlds in DC merge into one world with a over all collected history. (This collection is still in print and you can find it at your local bookstore or comic shop.)

- Barry Allen vanishes as he’s running from the future or from an event that is coming from the future to warn Batman and the others an disperses into the speed force.

We’ve already seen this with Wally in his run where he vanishes in season 2 following a pattern of what happened to Barry.

- Superman from the Golden age, his Lois Lane, Alexander Luthor (son of Lex Luthor from another earth where the Villain versions of the JL resided and Lex and the others there are heroes), and Superboy Prime ( a superboy that is the lone hero of his world) all are put into a pocket dimension as the worlds are merged into one.

We haven’t had that yet, but it’s an important point in later stories. The reason I bring these guys up is because of their role and how other characters can easily fill in for them in the coming events.

Fast forward several years. The DC Universe has been remade and during the later part of the 80s and into the 90s we saw the whole “let’s go dark and gritty” thing happen. Characters like Batman had their back broken, Superman died and was reborn, Wonder woman had to figure herself out. There were light spots, JLI for example and parts of the Teen Titans, but a lot of things grew darker. Like the Outsiders and the whole Judas contract. While things did lighten up a lot in the late 90s and into the 2000s, we got Lois and Clark married by then, Jason died and came back to life, Babs got shot by Joker, YJ and a lot of other books that were more upbeat came about in the mid to late 90s, However DC decided that there was still a lot of things that could be fixed and decided to create, basically for the upcoming Anniversary of CoIE, a new set of crisis to happen.

This started with Brad Meltzer’s quasi thriller:

Identity Crisis

This story actually has importance. While not as exact as the other stories in regard to what’s happening there are enough key things going on here. The major plot point is that someone has murdered Elastic man’s wife, and the JL has a dark secret revealed that rocks every one. (Again you can find it still in print.)

One of the main reasons that there is significance to this story is not only does Batman leave the Justice League but also there is some tie in to characters in the past and their actions. What’s interesting here is how this narrative can be woven into the recent events of Season 2 and could become significant in season 3 and 4 given what’s going down now.

-Zantana mind wipes Dr. Light and several other villains, and does the same for Bruce when he discovers what’s been going on and is against the altering of Dr. Light’s mind.

Connections here may not be obvious as its clear the story line is taking Bruce leaving from the creation of the Outsiders. However there is significance here in that Batman doesn’t trust the league at this point, which adds into his paranoid view of the world at times.

While it’s clearly not Zantana in this case, Megan has been showing similar actions in season 2. We saw her changing Conner’s memory in the past season, and we know she did the same to Psimon, and Kaldur. We can’t be sure if these were the only cases, as Greg does like to play with expectations.

It would not be too much to buy into the idea that Psimon could play the part of Dr. Light in this story and eventually come back to form a group of villains that were mind altered by M’ggan. Now while I don’t think it will be exactly the same I feel like there’s going to be backlash from people when they find out what she did two years ago. As shown when Gar mentioned that it wasn’t cool what she did to Conner when he found out. And you know that Batman will be pissed by this, wondering if she did the same to Dick, not to mention Kaldur and wondering if he’s compromised.

-Deathstroke takes on the League and beats them by himself.

Deathstroke is known for being a bit OP at times, but in this story he outdid himself when he took down the whole league. We haven’t seen this happen yet as he’s only been in a handful of scene’s but given that there are hints of him returning, what with Tera missing, it wouldn’t be that hard to buy into the idea with the titles we have of one of them leading to a defeat of the whole YJ team, and pretty much protecting whatever investment he has been hired to protect.

Not sure how he’s going to fit in or who’s he’s protecting as of yet, because he was hired by Dr. Light in the original, but I feel certain that he’s going to end up causing a lot of issue for others in this case, more than likely Aquaman and possibly Geoforce.

-Events cause Batman to create Brother Eye, leading to the OMAC project

So because of the fact that Bruce figured out he was mind wiped by Zee, he decides to create the Brother Eye satellite that eventually goes rogue because of Maxwell Lord and Alexander Luthor mucking about with it. The main goal was to have the Satellite watch Metahumans because of the mind wipe that Batman and other had had.

Now we recently saw the appearance of Brother Eye, don’t believe me, just look at Oracle’s eye at the moment. It’s purple and it’s the same shape as the Omac logo. Thing is, Omac’s colors, along with Brother Eye’s are purple, Oracle’s are traditionally green.

This means that Bruce already may have built the Brother eye set up, since we don’t know if Babs could have built that sort of set up. This seems more like a Bruce thing. In addition to this, if he already has the Brother Eye project going this means that he probably knows about M’ggan doing her mind things, but isn’t telling anyone that he’s keeping an eye on them. Why? Well it’s Bruce, he’s paranoid.

So what would this mean for this season and upcoming ones? Well...

Countdown to Infinite crisis

In this case the story line was covering Ted Kord -Blue Beetle, who had tracked down a mystery which ended up getting him killed by his former friend Maxwell Lord who had taken over the Omac project and brother eye.

-OMAC project lead to the death of Ted Kord via Maxwell Lord and then this allowed Checkmate to take over Superman and have him nearly kill Batman and Wonder Woman and the other JL members. Leading to Wonder Woman to snap his neck and kill him to stop the whole thing from going down.

So one key thing here, Maxwell Lord was sort of the “Charlie” to the JLI’s “Angels”. He sent them on missions and the like, and while he wasn’t exactly a bad guy, he wasn’t exactly a good one either. By the end of the series he had realized a lot of his own faults and dealt with some issues that would take a while to discuss, so let’s say that he redeemed himself...

Then DC said screw it, we need a villain and made him become the head of Checkmate, a black ops/Shield like organization in the DC universe. He killed Ted Kord when he found out that Max was going to basically use a bunch of cyborgs and take over Superman’s mind.

Now while we know that Ted died when he stopped Sportsmaster and Deathstroke from obtaining the scarab, and we assume it was the Light that sent them to get it in the first place, there may be some connection to this part of the story given that we may see the play out of the mother box and possibly Ted having found out info prior to his death about certain things happening. I don’t think they will go for the “Wonder woman snaps necks” but it’s possible that something else will take it’s place.

(Okay strike that...given what happened recently with Halo in episode 6, I can see them allowing this if it’s within the reasons for the story.)

It is important though to note that if Brother Eye is involved this could lead to an additional army for Darkseid. Brother Eye and Omac did eventually control Superman, which could be something that may happen in YJ as an option. They also became a dangerous group that attacked everyone on earth trying to protect them from Metahumans.

And what are we seeing a huge backlash against in Markovia? Metahumans.

-During events prior to Infinite Crisis several events happened that caused a lot of issues. Among them being a point where Superboy (Conner Kent/Kon-El) was triggered by Lex to attack the Teen Titans at the time.

While this hasn’t happened yet, we do know that Conner has DNA that links to Lex, and in this story line Lex allowed for the triggering of his DNA to basically cause Conner to shave his head and become a villain that went on to try to decimate the teen Titans.

It’s not that hard of a guess that this could be something that could happen to him given that we’ve seen them pair up Brion with Superboy and it seems if anyone can take him on head to head in regard to raw power it’s Brion. This could lead to a moment of Brion trying to help his mentor.

-Following Identity Crisis and during the lead up to Infinite Crises we had Day of Vengeance, where the Rock of Eternity that housed the powers of Shazam was shattered by the Specter due to breaking from Hal Jordan.

Here it’s less about the Specter as we have not seen him in YJ proper, but the idea that someone could attack the Rock of Eternity is a rather big thing. Remember we have two powerful geological users here, and it could come down to Terra doing that over Specter in this case. Either through use of her own powers or possibly enhanced by New God equipment.

Reason I at all bring this up is the focus on Billy in Episode one and how no one yet knows his secret ID. This may become important later as if that Rock breaks, Shazam and all his power are gone and Billy would be revealed to be a kid. This would be something Greg would do to weaken the JL and lead to Superboy having to take on something more powerful without the Big Red Cheese to help him out. (For those that don’t know that’s the nickname of Captain Marvel -Shazam.)

Billy falling from the sky leads to the start of Infinite Crisis, which would be a very strong opening to possibly season 4 or towards the end of season 3.

Villains United

The reason I bring this up is because this group seems to be likely the new Light. Humor me here for a moment. In Villain’s united,follows a series of events where an individual by the name of Mockingbird groups together the organization that will be later known as the Secret Six to stop the Secret society of Super Villains that seems to be run by Lex Luthor. The story goes on to have ties to the events of Infinite Crisis, but also build up to some very interesting revelations in regard to Lex and Alexander Luthor. (You can still get this run at the book store.)

The thing about this mini series is that there’s a lot of things going on in there that could easily show up in the next few seasons of YJ.

-Lex Luthor who is the president amasses an army to stand against the super heroes.

We’re already seeing that Lex as Secretary has plans and is playing against the Justice League with the UN. We’re also seeing that there’s an army being made for fighting via Darkseid, but it’s clear that there’s more to it than just them giving him kids. We’re also seeing the Lex is helping to get others to dislike the Metahumans, the JL and possibly heroes.

Now while there is no Alexander Luthor (as far as we know), we also know that Lex, like Ra’s isn’t a man that just would let Darkseid walk all over his world. So I’m curious about this. If he’s playing up the dislike for Metas and heroes as a means of using them against something bigger.

-the Secret Society of Super Villains consists of Dr. Psycho, Deathstroke, Talia al ghul, Black Adam, Calculator.

Of these characters we’ve seen at least three on the show so far. Talia was just shown this season, though I don’t know if she’s going to have any role working with the Light. She could easily be replaced by Queen Bee, DeathStroke we know is probably connected to the League of Assassins and could be representing them for the Light group (though that could be another person as well) and was on the show in season 2, Black Adam was shown in Season 1 and as for the other two, we know Count Vertigo is working with them still, so you can take out Dr. Psycho, and since we now have Oracle, I would expect them to get Calculator to counter her at some point in time.

-Cheshire, Vandal Savage’s daughter and other characters that have played parts in YJ play a part in this story and here we learn about opposing groups in that story to the villains group. More importantly we learn that Lex may be playing more than one side.

We’ve seen last season that Lex is willing to play around a lot in regard to the side he’s on. This story line could be used as an explanation to where Cheshire is at in YJ and maybe show that there’s more going on that the kids and the JL doesn’t know about. It would certainly fit into the idea of more information in coming seasons and also could be used to push Luthor into becoming President. Which is honestly where I think Greg is going with this.

With all the new information coming out with these last three episodes, I think there’s more clues showing up for the option of Infinite Crisis happening and how that is connected into Final Crisis.

Infinite Crisis

This long event series, written by several of DC’s best writers at the time, covered various events that had linked to the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths. This story was coinciding with the anniversary of COIE, and heavily mirrors it but also acts as a book end to the after math of the more hopeful ending of that one with a mixed bag of an ending with this one. Several well known character’s end up dead, we get a new villain, and some massive changes happen to the characters that it would take another Crisis to undo.

The important thing about Infinite is it’s sort of the middle event, or Empire like story, for these Crisis. It also plays a role in leading up to events in Final and setting the ball rolling for Darkseid to make his moves.

We have a number of important characters that play a huge role in Infinite Crisis and then later Countdown to Final Crisis and Final Crisis itself already on YJ and it seems like this story has aspects that could easily fit in with this season or the next.

-Actions taken by the main trio of bad guys in this lead to the destruction of the Watchtower, and the trinity fighting with one another. Superboy Prime kills several people including Superboy, Kal -L (Earth two Superman) tried to get batman on their side but he refuses, They’re trying to use earth as a tuning fork to create a paradise and reshape the many different worlds.

While there are a lot of things in this story that I don’t see happening, I do see a few that can be used to effectively lead into Final Crisis. For one thing having M’comm replace Superboy Prime and also have him act as the instigator in various fights and wars by having the Martians go and pretend to be other characters.

We’ve already seen that Conner is engaged to M’ggan and her brother try to enlist her the same way that Kal tries to get Batman to join him. We’ve also seen the images of brother eye in the form of Oracle’s set up, and that the Mother boxes are being used in some way. M’comm is arguing for a revolution to make a paradise like world and we know that he is extremely strong and could easily play the part of Superboy Prime if he wanted too. We also see he’s willing to kill, something that SBP was more than willing to do, and blamed others for his actions.

These smaller items could lead into more dramatic moments later in the series, including Superboy’s death as a possibility.

Important events by the end hint that Bruce goes off with Dick and Tim to train, Diana returns home to find herself, and Clark has to lay low and rest to get his powers back after the events in the story. Given what we’ve been seeing with the recent episodes, we may be seeing similar things going on here. Bruce leaving to train with Dick and Tim seems likely as the story line seems to be invoking Judas contract as well and probably will be affecting Dick, who more than likely will have issues with the fall out of Brion and Tara, and Tim is going to be dealing with whatever happens with his new little crew.

Diana is a hard one as we don’t know her relationship with Cassie or Kaldur, so it’s up in the air, but Kal may take Diana’s role of leaving to find himself after the events in the story. And if Superboy doesn’t die, then he may step up for Clark in this case, or we’ll see other Super’s come into that role. Unless Conner is the one to lose all his powers.

52, World War III, and One Year Later

Following in the wake of Infinite crisis there’s the story of 52 which covers the time span of the 52 weeks between the end of the Crisis and the start of the countdown for Final crisis. While I don’t think 52 and the companion piece One year Later, is going to feature in this season I do think that we may see it feature in the next building up to the idea of a Final crisis like story and eventually into another time skip.

-52 worlds come out of the Infinite Crisis and Booster Gold learns about it with another time traveler Rip Hunter, oh and his robot friend goes evil.

It’s unknown if Booster is going to show up in this season, but there have been rumors. However, if he doesn’t show up this story line could go to a number of different characters, including Traci 13, Impulse, Flash, or even one of our new characters.

-Cult of Superman

While the story line regarding the Cult will probably drastically change, I do think that there are a few things that may come about from it. I think that it could be Zee working with Fate to deal with Neron, and Faust if he becomes involved.

-The Everyman project that Lex creates, which leads to Steel and Natasha Irons playing a large role.

This I can see happening in the wake of us losing members of the JL that depart for various reasons. Either because of the fight or they have to step down for some reason. I could easily see Lex using this in later seasons to grow his own mini power struggle with the Light and it would fit in with the idea of the Government wanting to regulate the Metahumans that are now showing up. Though I feel like this would be next season over this season.

-Jason Todd taking over as Nightwing and Supergirl returns from the 31st Century.

We already can assume a Red Hood story will come out of this recent revelation with Jason showing up, and we have Wally missing much like Supergirl was, and it’s not that hard to buy into the idea of Wally returning from the future feeling completely unsure of himself and talking about things that can happen due to what’s going down now. Jason, more than likely, could take over Dick’s costume and screw with stuff just because he can and probably feels a bit left out of things.

-Donna Troy takes over as Wonder Woman and Arthur becomes the Dweller of the Depths.

In the actual story there are reasons for both, but I think that Donna may take on the role if they have Wonder Woman kill Maxwell Lord. On the other hand I think Arthur may have saved Sub Diego during the two year jump and the reason we don’t have him is because he’s become this creature known as the dweller of the Depths. This would have lead Kal to becoming a leader while Mera acts as ruler underwater while Kal acts as leader in place of Arthur.

-J’onn comes to a different conclusion about being a martian on earth after being mind linked to Black Adam.

While I don’t see this coming into play during this season or during the time skip in the future, it may explain where M’ggan’s new look comes from. Maybe she’s changed to her new look due to some sort of event that plays with what happened to J’onn. While I don’t think that it will happen exactly as in the comic the precedence is there as an option for the two year time skip.

Other aspects that could play into the story and season 4 as a possibly: the trinity step down from their roles, Aquaman allies himself with Dweller of the Depths and King shark, New Doom Patrol, Hawkman goes missing, Jason and Dick both are Nightwing, New Birds of Prey is formed, Oliver Queen becomes the Mayor of Star City, New crew of Teen Titans, Vandal Savage starts up plans to regain his immortality, New JSA, Bart becomes the Flash, Tim Drake tries to clone Superboy to bring Kon back....

Not all of this will happen, but a number of these seem like givens.

Given how the UN is treating Meta humans, I can see the Trinity being forced out of their roles for a period of time. Kaldur may have to make deals to protect his friends if Apokolips is setting up for something dark and in doing so he may get in over his head. I can easily see Greg building up a new Doom Patrol in a one year later situation, and we don’t know where Hawkman is as of right now since he’s in the Rann shot.

Babs forming the Birds as a means of dealing with the Light and the League would make sense, Oliver could step into role of Mayor allowing for Conner Hawke to come into YJ as the new Green Arrow, and we know that the younger crew of YJ is going to come more into play. We also know that Vandel is working with Darkseid and into whatever plan he has for the Anti life equation. Bart becoming Flash could be an option if Wally isn’t brought back till later, and I have no doubt that should Conner die M’ggan will more than likely try to pull off Tim’s clone game to bring him back.

Would be interesting in lieu of Conner coming back we get Kara and have her show that there is more than just Superman.

Countdown to Final Crisis

So now we have come to the part where things become interesting. Countdown to Final Crisis covers the events that were supposed to lead to Final Crisis, but some of it doesn’t go anywhere. So I’m just focusing on Darkseid in this case, and if any hints of other stories shows up later in the show I’ll point it out.

-Darkseid is planing on being the Architect of the universe, and his brother Drax, aka Infinity man (who can be summoned by the Forever people) is killing the New gods.

Given the images we have so far and what we’ve seen in the episodes, it seems that this could be something that could play out in some way. We know Darkseid is working on creating something, probably the Anti life equation. We have Forager who comes from this story showing up in the show so far. The thing is that in this case we know that the with Infinity Man killing off the New Gods this leads to events in Final Crisis.

Honestly I can see some of this playing out here slightly. We do have the Forever People around and it would fit into the possibility that a New God is the one that is inside Halo.

I think for the sake of lenght that I’m going to tackle Final Crisis as it’s own thing over going forward with this one as it’s already really long.

See Final crisis theory of YJ for the rest. :)

#yjo spoilers #yj season 3 #yj #yj spoilers #yj:o #young justice #young justice: outsiders #young justice season 3 #young justice theories #young justice theory #darkseid #final crisis #infinite crisis #identity crisis #dc universe #dc comics

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dannyphantomrpg · 7 years ago

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Visual Aid: 14 PHAN-TASTIC Facts About Danny Phantom!

Edit: I have no idea why tumblr is flipping out. If you click to Keep Reading, the punctuation is fixed. ???

Hey Hart Phans! I'm going ghost! Or it's "goin’" without the "g". Goin' Ghost. I'm goin’ ghost! You guys like this? Is this is a cool hoodie or what? Check this out. This is based on my Danny Phantom 10 Years Later design. And if you're good, if you're really nice and leave a nice comment in the comment section below and give me a like or subscribe, I just might leave a link in the description below so you can get one of these yourself.

If anyone has the link to the 10YL hoodie, I’ll leave it here.

Fourteen years ago, this week, Danny Phantom premiered on Nickelodeon. So we're gonna do 14 awesome things about Danny Phantom.

Number one, it's a show about teenagers. Danny, Sam, and Tucker - all teenagers in a high school. A lot of shows centered around kids in elementary school, kids in preschool, but not a lot centered around a high school. And I think a lot of kids in their teenage years when they first encounter Danny Phantom really responded to it really well because Danny was going through the same things they were going through, you know? Dealing with girls, dealing with boys, the high school dance, bullies, all those sorts of things. Danny Fenton was going through the same things a lot of the audience was going through. I think that's really why Danny Phantom resonated with a lot of kids and why it still resonated with a lot of teenagers today.

Number two, relationships. Danny Phantom is an awesome show chock full of relationships. And what's cool about that is, you know, everybody loves great characters who have great relationships because that makes it easier for the audience to relate to them. Danny's relationship to Jazz. She loves him but treats him like a little brother until she finds out he's got ghost powers and then she wants to be part of his super team. Danny's nerd relationship with Tucker. They're the best of friends. Danny's relationship to his bumbling, ghost-fighting parents who don't realize that their son is the ultimate ghost prize they've been searching for. And finally, Danny's relationship to Sam. I mean, Sam and Danny start off as really good, close friends and as the show builds, their relationship builds as well. And it finally ends in Phantom Planted where they fly off into the sunset and we're all left wondering, do they get married? Does this relationship continue? What happens to Danny and Sam? And that's awesome. Cause people want to know. Do you want to know? Let me know in the comment section below.

Number three, ghost powers! I mean, how many cool characters you can think of have ghost powers? I can name a few. There's Deadman, from DC Comics, he could sort of take over people's bodies, and he was dead. There's The Spectre from DC Comics who's a big, huge, otherworldly ghost no one can really relate to, but he's kind of cool, I guess. There's Phantom Girl from Legion of Superheroes who... no one's really ever heard of. There's Casper the Friendly Ghost, who... is friendly. And then there's Ghost Rider who rides a motorcycle and isn't really a ghost. He's got, like, a flaming skull head and a chain, so anyway. But Danny had all these cool powers. He had plasma blasts, he had a ghostly chill, and could shoot cold out of his hands because ghosts give you a chill up your spine. He could turn intangible and go through walls, he could grab you and turn you intangible and pull you through walls. All these really cool things and not a lot of other characters have had powers as cool as Danny Phantom.

And in Danny Phantom, we had a rule. We were writing the show that none of the ghosts would be dead people. We never wanted to be the ghost of a dead person. We wanted the ghosts to be creatures from another dimension that could take the shape of a human, could take the shape of something, but they would never be a deceased person's spirit. Like, you'll never see Danny Phantom fighting the ghost of Elvis Presley or the ghost of Abraham Lincoln. I should, we should make a cartoon where Lincoln fights Elvis. Let's write that down! Let's do that!

Number four, Danny's parents. And the fact that they don't know that their own son is the ultimate ghost prize they've been looking for. I mean, let's face it. Jack and Maddie Fenton are awesome. They love each other, they're people of action, they, they kick ghost butt all the time, they got amazing weapons. But the one thing they can't seem to figure out is how to catch a ghost and, number two, that their own son is the ultimate ghost that they've been looking for.

Number five, the Box Ghost! I am the Box Ghost! Actually, not just the Box Ghost, but all of the Danny Phantom ghost villains. Let's face it, without a good group of villains, a hero and a show, or comic or whatever, doesn't have a really great chance to shine, and Danny Phantom's villains really give him a lot to play off of. From the comedy of the Box Ghost, to the sultriness and the musicality of Ember, to the sinisterness of the ultimately deadly Vlad Plasmius, and the action and edginess of Skulker. All of these villains really, really gave Danny Phantom this ultimate ability to become an awesome hero and to give the audience something to really, really be excited about and someone to root for.

Number six, the songs. From the opening notes of the Danny Phantom theme song *hums*, you knew that was Danny Phantom. The end credit music is amazing. The music inside the show, where Danny's fighting a ghost, or when a relationship gets really tender, there's a tender moment. The music there is amazing, too. Plus, to top it all off, the amazing song by Ember "Remember" was a great song. People just loved that song and have really responded to it really well. So I think Danny Phantom didn't old have some of the best music in cartoons, but in all of television.

Number seven, the costume. Starting off with just a black jumpsuit, white boots, white gloves, white belt. We ended up adding a logo into the costume, and I think adding that awesome cool D with the ghostly tail and the P inside of it, elevated that simple, normal costume of Danny's in the first season to one of the most iconic superhero costumes of all time.

Number eight, the Ghost Zone. The Ghost Zone gave Danny a whole other dimension, pardon the pun. I mean, not only does Danny Phantom have to fight ghosts in our world, but then we have him the Ghost Zone where he's got to go fight ghosts there are well. And the awesome thing about the Ghost Zone was that we could give Danny pretty much anything we wanted to in the Ghost Zone. It was really a world with no rules. There were some rules. But what was cool about it, we could have anything we wanted to in there. We could have Frostbite's frozen home world, we could have the Ghostwriter's Library, we could have Skulker's island where he chased Danny and Valerie Grey. We could have doors that opened up into any dimension, in any time period that we wanted to. It just really expanded Danny Phantom from being a city-based superhero show to a dimensionally-based superhero show.

Number nine, superhero ideas. Now, Danny Phantom was one of those shows that took a lot of the classic superhero ideas and kind of turned them a little bit inside out and used them in their own way. For example, the secret identity. Danny Phantom had a secret identity like Clark Kent, or Bruce Wayne, or Peter Parker, but the interesting thing is all of Danny's villains pretty much knew his secret identity. And none of Danny's family did. Also, comedic versus sinister moments. Danny Phantom was a great show, had examples of being funny one second and then being ultimately scary and having lives at stake the next. For example, in The Ultimate Enemy, Danny fights Box Lunch, who is the daughter of the Box Ghost and the Lunch Lady one minute, And then the next minute, he's fighting the ultimate bad, evil future version of himself, Dark Danny, from the future. It was a great show and taking those sort of classic superhero ideas and using it in its own way, keeping those ideas pure, but making it it's very own.

Number ten, story length. We watch a half-hour cartoon show, you can tell one one story, have a commercial, and tell another story. Two eleven minutes in the half hour because we did eight minutes for commercials. Little behind the scenes stuff there. But Danny Phantom was one of the first shows ever that told its stories in 22 minutes. We had a long time to tell our story so we'd have the first part of the story, and then an act break, and then the last part of the story. Danny Phantom even had a cold open before the titles. I don't think I've seen a cartoon like that ever since.

Number eleven, the serialized storytelling in Danny Phantom. What does that mean? Well, basically what it means is you'd watch one episode of Danny Phantom, no problem. It made sense. Watch another one, that one makes sense too. But if you watch all the episodes of Danny Phantom in order, they're all connected in some way. Each episode ties into the next because we're always constantly building the story, the characters, and the world as the show goes on. And that was unique back then, that wasn't really done a lot back then. So I think Danny Phantom really paved the way for a lot more serialized cartoons to come out after it.

Number twelve, the voice acting on Danny Phantom. I mean, not only did Danny Phantom have amazing character concepts, and amazing character designs, but the voice acting, I think, brought the characters up to a whole new level. Like, David Kaufman as Danny Phantom, Rob Paulson as Jack Fenton and Technus, Ricky D'Shon Collins as Tucker, Colleen O'Shaughnessy as Jazz Fenton, Tara Strong as Ember McLean, Martin Mull as Vlad Plasmius, Eric Roberts as the Ultimate Enemy Dark Danny from the future, Jon Cryer as Freakshow, and the list goes on and on and on. These characters not only look great, not only written great, but the voice acting brought them up to an incredible level that, I think, that audience still responds to today. And that's why people love the characters of Danny Phantom.

Number thirteen, the awesome phans - P-H-A-N-S. The Dany Phantom phans are legion. They are unbelievable. you're all awesome, and you're the reason this show still lives on and on and on and on. From the original episodes of Danny Phantom on Nickelodeon to my videos, Danny Phantom 10 Years Later, all the stuff I do with Danny Phantom here on the channel. You guys are what makes Danny Phantom special because you will not let the show go away. And I'm here with you 100%. I want Danny Phantom to live on as long as you do. So keep sending me requests, keep letting me know what you want to see as far as Danny Phantom goes. We'll keep doing amazing stuff and keep making you guys happy because Danny Phantom deserves to go on, and you guys deserve to see more.

Ok, and the fourteenth awesome thing about Danny Phantom is... Young Danny Fenton, he was just fourteen. What? Did I say young? That's right, I said "young". A lot of you think it's "Yo Danny Fenton". It's not. It's "young". How do I know this? Cause I wrote the theme song. So I know, and I wrote "Young Danny Fenton", that's what it is. It is "Young Danny Fenton, he was just fourteen". Did I blow your mind? I blew your mind, didn't I? I didn't mean to.

Hey, I'm so glad you guys are phans - P-H-A-N-S - happy 14th Danaversary, to Danny Phantom

#Danny Phantom #14 PHAN-TASTIC Facts About Danny Phantom!#Butch Hartman #reference #these aren't facts #these are opinions #serisouly dude go watch your own show #you listed fourteen facts and got fifteen of them wrong #is he seriously taking credit for cold openings and serialization?#danny phantom isn't really a serial show #he talks like a sociopath!#it's young not yo #i can't believe that's the hill he's going to die on #he dedicated an entire fact to it!

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aion-rsa · 6 years ago

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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Complete DC Comics Easter Eggs and Reference Guide

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Your complete guide to DC Comics references, Justice League movie hints, and DCEU Easter eggs in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice!

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Feature

Books

Mike Cecchini

Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice

Mar 22, 2019

Batman

Superman

Zack Snyder

DC Entertainment

Justice League

Wonder Woman

This article contains nothing but Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and DCEU spoilers.

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is the second movie in the DC Extended Universe series, which began with Man of Steel, and continued in the Wonder Woman movie, will continue further with the Justice League movie, and more. As a result, it's positively packed with references to DC Comics, and hints about the future of the DC Extended Universe.

Here's our complete and spoiler-filled breakdown of everything you might have missed in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Batman's Origin

- Just as Man of Steel opened with Superman's origin (his literal birth, in fact), so does Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice open with Batman's origin story. Thank heavens for that, because if we don't see what motivated young Bruce Wayne to become the Batman, we might never know! That is, of course, a joke.

While Batman first appeared in Detective Comics #27 in 1939, we didn't see his actual origin until a two-page segment in Detective Comics #33. To make up for that six month gap, DC Comics and their media partners are now contractually obligated to re-tell Batman's origin in some form, whether it's in the comics, on the screen, or via finger puppets, every six months in perpetuity. That's not true, but it sometimes feels that way.

The visual inspiration for this origin sequence is, like many things in the film, taken from Frank Miller, Klaus Janson, and Lynn Varley's seminal The Dark Knight Returns, which was first published in 1986. Things like the mustachioed Thomas Wayne and the string of pearls caught on the barrell of the gun are right out of there, as well as the (dream?) sequence where young Bruce is surrounded by bats after accidentally discovering the bat cave.

Watch Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice on Amazon

The Waynes leave the movie theater after a revival screening of the 1940 version of The Mark of Zorro starring Tyrone Power. That particular Zorro film holds up really well, is a great watch, and feels like a superhero movie before there was ever really any such thing. Totally worth your time. I also believe that The Dark Knight Returns was where it was first revealed that this was the film the Waynes saw on that fateful night.

You can also spot Excalibur on the marquee, which is John Boorman's highly stylized, overly serious 140-minute take on the King Arthur legend (sounds like another movie we know), here to help illustrate that this sequence takes place in 1981. Excalibur feels like a very long film at 140 minutes. Batman v Superman, on the other hand, feels even longer than its 153 minute run time.

We wrote lots more on John Boorman's Excalibur right here, if you want to learn more about this crazy movie.

I owe a special thanks to Peter in the comments for catching this next little detail, Excalibur is listed as "coming next Wednesday." Now, aside from the fact that the movie actually opened on Friday, April 10th, 1981, "coming next Wednesday" is still pretty significant. First of all, new comic books come out every Wednesday, so this is a nod to that.

The Justice League can be seen as a modern day Knights of the Round Table. Couple that with the fact that the Excalibur movie is "coming soon" (and on a Wednesday, no less!) it's kind of an in-joke about how the Justice League movie is next on the schedule. That's pretty cool.

There's more on Excalibur coming down below, just be patient...

- Visible in the Wayne graveyard is the name "Solomon." Solomon Wayne was Bruce's Great, Great, Great Grandfather. When the Batman comics decided they wanted their Gotham City to look a little bit more like Anton Furst's Gotham designs from Tim Burton's Batman movies, a story was crafted to make it happen, and Solomon Wayne was part of that.

- It's also worth noting that this movie marks the first time we've seen Bill Finger's name in the opening credits of a Batman movie. That's a huge deal, as Finger was a major creative driving force behind Batman and his supporting cast, but for years, Bob Kane took all the credit. We have a little bit more about Bill Finger's bat-legacy right here.

The Supporting Characters

- Anatoli Knyazev is known to comic book fans as (wait for it) the KGBeast, because he was created in 1988 when that was what you named these kinds of villains. Anatoli has appeared in non-beastly form on a number of episodes of Arrow, as well. He first appeared in a story called "Ten Nights of the Beast" which is a pretty cool read if you can track it down.

- The photographer who is apparently working for the CIA during Lois' misadventure in the desert is played by Argo's Michael Cassidy. And yes, as credited and as revealed in the film's Ultimate Edition, he is indeed Jimmy Olsen. "Superman's Pal" is promptly and brutally murdered. So, yeah, you can forget about that little piece of Superman mythology in the DC Extended Universe, as well. Read more about Mr. Snyder's comments on the matter here.

- Alfred Pennyworth first appeared in 1943's Batman #16. Like most enduring Batman characters, he was created by Bob Kane, Bill Finger, and Jerry Robinson. Alfred cut a rather different figure in his early appearances, and through the years he has become more of an aggressively badass figure.

Lex Luthor

- Lex Luthor has been around since Action Comics #23 in 1940 (you'll note that at the end of the movie, his prisoner number is AC23-1940), and as we see here, he had lustrous red hair. Later appearances alternately identified Lex as a shortening of Alexander or Alexei, and even later appearances revealed he was a childhood friend of Clark Kent, before a lab accident stole his luscious locks.

read more: The Actors Who Have Played Lex Luthor

- Lex Luthor's prison garb has the prisoner number of 16-TK421. TK421 is a reference to Star Wars when Luke and Han took on Stormtrooper disguises. You know, "TK421, why aren't you at your post?" Batman v Superman and The Force Awakens were tweaking each other with little social media crossovers during filming, but it appears this is the only one of those in-jokes made it to film.

Also, while orange prison jumpsuits certainly aren't just a DC Universe thing, Lex was looking a bit like Grant Morrison and Frank Quitely's vision of the character from All-Star Superman in this scene.

The Lex of this film is "Alexander Luthor, Jr." Which means his father's name isn't "Lionel" as it was in the Smallville TV series or a handful of the comics that followed. Something tells me that Alex Sr. didn't die of natural causes.

Luthor has been something of a jerk-of-all-trades during his career, from straight mad scientist to captain of industry to President of the United States. I wrote much more about that stuff right here.

Mercy Graves is Lex Luthor's bodyguard, a super strong badass, although you don't see any of that in this movie. Mercy was first introduced in Superman: The Animated Series where she had considerably more to do than she does in this film, and has recently appeared on the Supergirl TV series.

Kryptonite

Let's get into a few notes about Kryptonite...

- It's amazing that Man of Steel went an entire movie without going down the Kryptonite road, but we do finally get it here. Kryptonite was actually a creation of the (awesome) Adventures of Superman radio show, a necessary plot device so that original Man of Steel Bud Collyer could take a vacation from the radio show's punishing, almost daily schedule. For weeks, Superman was played by another actor, who was only required to groan in agony while Supes was at the mercy of the alien mineral.

- Here's something I never would have noticed (thanks to JACS in the comments!). Ralph Lister is credited as Emmett Vale, and he isn't the guy who finds the hunk of Kryptonite in the Indian Ocean as I initially thought, but he appears in Lex Luthor's laboratory. Dr. Vale is the creator of Metallo, the cyborg with the Kryptonite heart who would be a great choice to give Superman a headache if we were ever going to get another Superman solo movie, but since who knows if that will ever happen, well...forget it.

The way Kryptonite looks in this movie is a little like how it was shown in Superman: The Movie. Later in that film, when Supes is debilitated by the effects of Batman's Kryptonite spear, Lois chucks it in the water to get it away from him. That kinda' reminds me of the Supes/Miss Teschmacher exchange from the end of that movie, too.

Speaking of that Kryptonite spear, wireman (cool handle, by the way) in the comments found this little gem from the comics, that I wasn't aware of:

The Dark Knight Returns Influences

In The Dark Knight Returns, a comic which obviously has influenced this movie quite heavily, when Batman first returns to action he lends a hand to two cops in pursuit of suspects, one who isn't old enough to remember Batman in action, and one veteran who advises him to chill out and enjoy the show.

The rookie cop and the veteran cop, who Batman encounters while out whupping ass, remind me a little bit of this pair from Dark Knight Returns:

It can also be noted that this exchange played out much the same way in 2012's The Dark Knight Rises when Christian Bale's Batman first returns from retirement, much like in the iconic Frank Miller graphic novel.

By the way, the two officers in question are named "Officer Rucka" and "Officer Mazzucchelli." Greg Rucka was the writer of the excellent Gotham Central comic, and David Mazzucchelli was the artist on Frank Miller's other great Batman story, Batman: Year One.

The news montage (which, rather surprisingly, features a cameo by Andrew Sullivan!) is another nod to The Dark Knight Returns, which helped set up its near-future vision of the DCU via TV news clips. You may recognize some of the anti-superhero sentiment from these, as well. Also, we get the return of Glen Woodburn from Man of Steel, too.

read more: Ranking the Superman Movies

- Alfred's quote about "the next generation of Waynes" facing "an empty wine cellar" is lifted straight out of The Dark Knight Returns. You're going to read words very much like that a lot in the course of this article.

While most Batman costumes are fairly similar in essence, the proportions and lines on this particular version are also right out Frank Miller's artwork:

Pretty cool, right?

The bit with Batman sighting a rifle atop a tower calls to mind still more stuff from Dark Knight Returns, albeit there it was a "grappling hook" gun, while here it's to fire a tracer.

- Also, I don't suppose that I need to explain Bruce's "freaks dressed like clowns" joke, right? Of course I don't.

The shot of Superman lifting the Russian rocket (numbered 300 of course) over his head has a hint of this page from The Dark Knight Returns to it...

Batman's opening gambit in his fight with Superman is to hit him with a sonic blast, this (again) is straight out of Dark Knight Returns. Same with the Kryptonite dust/gas projectile.

There are lots of other direct similarities to the comics in that battle, too...

Look familiar? Check out that first panel on the left!

That armor looks pretty familiar too:

You get the idea, I'm sure.

- When Batman shows up to take out the KGBeast, the action comes right out of the first chapter of (say it with me now, kids!) The Dark Knight Returns. Batman bursts up out of the floor to whup ass. Batman bursts through the wall to take a giant honkin' gun from some dude. Batman says "I believe you" after armed asshat says "believe me, I'll kill her" and then takes him out. All from DKR. Just change the names of the goons.

During the Doomsday battle, complete with lightning bolts, we get a recreation of the cover of The Dark Knight Returns #1. No, seriously, check it out...

Told ya.

Also in Dark Knight Returns, Bruce is often brooding over a Robin costume in a glass case, and Alfred reminds him about "what happened to Jason..." which brings us to...

The Robin Connection

Needless to say, there's only one character who would have spray painted that on Robin's body, so this mirrors the events of the 1988 Batman comic event, "A Death in the Family," which allowed readers to decide (via a 1-900 number... those were different times) whether the second Robin would survive a brutal beating (with a crowbar) at the hands of the Joker and a subsequent warehouse explosion.

It's tough to really see the colors on this, and they're certainly muted, but the basic design certainly mirrors that of the first Tim Drake Robin costume, which also happened to be the first one in the main DC Universe continuity that looked genuinely badass.

It was designed by legendary Bat-artist Neal Adams and first brought to comics by Norm Breyfogle (thanks to our very own JL Bell for keeping me honest here!) and remains one of my favorite costume designs of all time. You can see Jason Todd's Robin costume in a similar glass case in the above image, as well.

It's never made clear which Robin this is supposed to be in the movie, but it's certainly Jason Todd. After all, there's a Nightwing movie in development and they can't do that if Dick Grayson is dead.

Zack Snyder clarified that whoever this Robin is, he died about ten years ago. He later specified that it's probably Dick Grayson. But since we know that this version of Batman has been active for at least 15 years (Alfred says 20), and that's about enough time for this to line up with the Jason Todd version of the character.

The Knightmare

During Batman's weird little nightmare/dream sequence, you can spot several clues as to the identity of the big villain of the DCEU. There's a gigantic Omega symbol in the sand, and Earth appears to have had fire pits (ala the planet Apokolips) installed.

Couple that with what appeared to be Parademons attacking the Dark Knight, and, well... it's looking more and more likely that Darkseid, Jack Kirby's most famous DC Comics creation (and one of the greatest comic book villains of all time) was supposed to make his debut in Justice League 2.

The strange symbol carved into the desert there is Darkseid's, while the winged creatures flying around are his Parademon minions...

For reference, here's what they look like when drawn by Jim Lee in the New 52 Justice League re-launch, which featured Darkseid as the team's first big threat, and which was clearly meant to inform their film efforts...

Also, the sharp-eyed JACS (who is quickly becoming the MVP of the comments on this thing) pointed out the similarities to Batman's Mad Max garb here and the nightmarish future Batman that Damian Wayne becomes during Grant Morrison's run as writer on the character.

Doomsday

- Doomsday was created by Dan Jurgens, Brett Breeding, Jerry Ordway, Louise Simonson, and Roger Stern in 1992 with the express purpose of killing Superman dead and driving up sales. He succeeded in all possible respects in Superman #75.

Doomsday's Kryptonian origins weren't revealed until much later, although he was never a Frankenstein's Monster version of Zod, nor did he have Lex Luthor's DNA, nor did he... ummm... you get the point. But the idea of Doomsday as a highly evolved/continuously evolving killing machine came right out of the comics, as does the "he grows more spikes as he takes damage" thing.

- When Superman and Doomsday take their battle to Stryker's Island, we're told it's uninhabited. In the comics, Stryker's Island is the home of a massive Metropolis penitentiary. Clearly that isn't the case here...unless in the bleak moral universe of the DCEU, the inhabitants of a prison are completely expendable forms of human life.

- Superman getting caught in a nuclear explosion, becoming a weird zombified thing, and then charging up/healing via the power of the sun comes straight out of a particular Batman story that has been referenced numerous times throughout this article... you have three guesses. Go ahead. Guess.

-Superman flying to almost certain death while carrying a Kryptonian object (albeit a much smaller one) also calls back to mind a similar storytelling beat from the end of Superman Returns.

- Lex Luthor in Zod's old ship, talking to the AI, feels similar to Lex's infiltration of the Fortress of Solitude in Superman II.

- Luthor using the ship to turn Zod's body into Doomsday is also quite reminiscent (intentionally or not) of Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor using Kryptonian crystals to make a giant Kryptonite continent in Superman Returns.

Also, when Lex is talking to Zod's corpse (oofah), he says "you flew too close to the sun." This is a reference to the myth of Icarus, which doesn't remotely seem to apply to anything regarding Zod's arc. Unless he means "you flew too close to the son," as in "The Last Son of Krypton," but somehow I don't think that much thought went into this scene.

read more: Complete Schedule of Upcoming DCEU Superhero Movies

- Lex didn't create Doomsday in the comics, but in many recent versions of the story, Lex did create Bizarro, notably as an imperfect Kryptonian duplicate. There's a little bit of a similarity to that here. Bizarro is, of course, not in the movie, despite some hilariously inaccurate rumors.

Miscellaneous Cool Stuff

- Clark bringing Lois flowers and groceries is faintly reminiscent of their brief shot at domestic bliss in Superman II where Superman famously cooked Lois a souflee using heat vision, and flew around the world to get her some nice tropical flowers. This scene also illustrates the age old Supes/Lois problem, where she knows that he "belongs to the world" and not to her.

- Pery White refers to Clark as "Smallville" more than once in the film. That was Lois Lane's affectionate/condescending nickname for Clark on Superman: The Animated Series, which is an excellent way to spend your time, I might add.

Later, while admonishing Clark for actually, y'know, wanting to be a reporter and tell the truth, Perry says, "It's not 1938 anymore." 1938 is, of course, the year that Action Comics #1, the first appearance of Superman, was published. In other words, here's Perry White speaking for Zack Snyder, telling fans to stop whining over the fact that Superman doesn't behave very much like Superman in these movies.

- It appears that the Metropolis News channel, Channel 8, is indeed a GBS/Galaxy Broadcasting affiliate station. You can also spot a GBS microphone during a press conference later on, which is perhaps representative of their cable outlet or something similar.

- You can spot a mention of Gotham's Blackgate Prison when Clark is doing his investigation into Batman.

Incidentally, the Ultimate Edition has a lot more going on as far as Clark's investigative reporting, and that along with Henry Cavill's performance remind me quite abit of the better moments of the 1950s Adventures of Superman TV series. George Reeves routinely played Clark has a hard-edged reporter, and Cavill definitely channels some of that here.

read more - Men of Steel: 11 Actors Who Have Played Superman on Screen

- Bruce Wayne's "one percent chance" logic is childish and horrifying, and sounds like something Donald Trump would say about immigrants. It certainly was the logic that Dick Cheney used to condone "enhanced interrogation techniques."

- You can spot "Nicholson Terminal," which the Batmobile obliterates. Maybe this is a nod to Jack Nicholson's iconic take on the Joker. Maybe it isn't. Does this movie really ever make sense?

- When Senator Finch is asked "Must there be a Superman" well, that's a reference to a classic Superman tale. Not just any classic Superman story, either. The first published Superman story by Supes-writer extraordinaire, Elliott S! Maggin (that's not a typo) in Superman #247 from 1972. That story is far more nuanced and interesting in its 24 pages than this movie in its two and a half hours, and it's 100 percent worth reading.

- There's a pretty hilarious Wilhelm Scream when the Batmobile overturns some poor hood's car.

- Ma Kent's "you don't owe this world a thing" speech marks the return of evil, dystopian, Hunger Games Smallville logic to the series. For real, is it any wonder that the DCEU's Clark Kent is such a brooding mope? Between stuff like this and hallucination Pa Kent telling Clark about the time he drowned a bunch of horses by accident, it's a miracle that Superman isn't just snapping necks like... oh, wait, he already did that.

read more: Does Superman Have a Future in the DCEU?

- Hey, remember when the internet said that Scoot McNairy was playing Hal Jordan/Jimmy Olsen/Ted Kord/Morgan Edge/Che Guevara/Spider-Man/Ad Nauseum? Yeah. That didn't happen. He's Wallace Keefe, a character we've never heard of. The only Keef I give a damn about is Richards.

- Ma Kent is now working at Rolli's Diner. Now, there's two smaller Lex Luthor stories from the comics that Rolli's ties into. Superman #9 (1987) featured a backup story called "Metropolis, 900 miles" which dealt with Lex Luthor offering a kind of "indecent proposal" to a waitress at Rolli's.

Lex's kidnapping of Martha Kent is also kinda' like a story from Superman #2 (1987) where he kidnapped Lana Lang after he figured out that young Superman had ties to Smallville. He ended up figuring out that Superman was Clark Kent but refused to believe it.

- In the background during these scenes there's a prominent piece of question mark graffiti, which may or may not be a reference to the Riddler. There's some "Who Watches the Watchmen?" graffiti (not in this image), too.

- Lois boards a red helicopter on the Daily Planet rooftop, which reminds me of the best scene in the best Superman movie, the immortal Superman: The Movie.

The Justice League Connection

- So, in case you cannot tell because he's almost unrecognizable, the lightning tornado dream sequence echo voice thing is the DC Extended Universe version of The Flash (and that's Ezra Miller in the role). The Flash appearing in mysterious form, kind of like a dream, and possibly from a different point in time, is very much a reference to Crisis on Infinite Earths where Flash was appearing to various heroes trying to warn them of what was to come while he was busy dying later in the story fighting the very same threat.

Flash also seems to be teasing something about Lois Lane being "the key." If Bruce is right about Superman, that means Flash is speaking to Bruce from a time in the future where Superman has become a threat, perhaps because of the death of Lois Lane...or maybe Lois is the key to turning him good again, or bringing him back to life.

This could be a reference to the Injustice: Gods Among Us video game and comics, which features a morally compromised DC Universe where heroes fight each other and Superman is a terrible person. So, you know, that sounds awfully familiar all of a sudden, doesn't it?

We wrote more about the Injustice comics right here, if you're interested. I'm saving some more about the implications of this for another article, too.

- I'm sure you all realized that was Jason Momoa as Aquaman during the underwater sequence, right? His look here is reminiscent of how he appeared on the excellent Justice League animated series and his mid-90s makeover.

- The weird horror movie/RoboCop sequence is the origin of Cyborg, played by Ray Fisher, who made his next appearance in Justice League. He was scheduled to get his own movie in 2020, but that no longer appears to be happening.

read more: Every DCEU Easter Egg in the Aquaman Movie

One cool thing about that scene is that the weird cube thing that apparently makes the Cyborg project successful is a Mother Box, which makes this the film's second overt Jack Kirby reference, and the imminent arrival of Steppenwolf as the villain of Justice League.

Wonder Woman

- By the way, Wonder Woman first appeared in All Star Comics #8 in 1941, but the Wonder Woman in this movie is even older than that. Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman garb is reminiscent of how artists like Alex Ross drew her in Kingdom Come and Darwyn Cooke did in New Frontier to make her look more like the warrior princess she's traditionally depicted as.

You can also spot Chris Pine as Steve Trevor in that photo from 1918 and the rest of his World War I crew that we got to meet in her movie.

Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman performance is even better with a little more context after seeing her in action in her solo flick. For example, I only just noticed how immediately bored/disgusted she is with Lex Luthor when he's giving his little speech at the party. She sees right through him. It's awesome.

The Death of Superman

A few notes about the "death" of Superman...

I have to admit, this is really cool. Remember all the Excalibur stuff up top? It's back! A few of you sharp-eyed folks pointed out the similarities to this scene in Boorman's flick, and they are undeniable...

Video of Excalibur Mordred's death

- When you see his body cradled by Lois Lane, it's a nod to Dan Jurgens and Brett Breeding's art from Superman #75.

- In the Ultimate Edition, before Lex is captured, he's seen communing with a mysterious figure on the ship. This is likely Steppenwolf, the villain of the Justice League movie, although there's a slight chance it's Yuga Khan, the father of Darkseid. But really, it's probably Steppenwolf.

- Ending on "Amazing Grace" and an ambiguous/hopeful note is more than a little reminiscent of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which featured the death of Spock. Superman has somehow managed to show even less emotion and seemed even more alien than Spock ever did in this franchise so far, so it's really, really appropriate.

- You can see the weird little telekinetic effect that was used to show that Superman's powers were about to manifest in Man of Steel. So, y'know, of course he's not dead.

I explained the implications of Superman's death and the ending of this movie in greater detail here.

- Superman's coffin is black with a silver "S" logo. When Superman returned from the dead during the Death and Return of Superman story in the '90s, he wore a black suit with a silver "S" on it.

- By the way, it's worth noting that Warner Bros. has been trying to kill Superman on screen since at least 1995. Virtually every draft of every Superman movie of the last twenty years featured some form of Superman getting croaked (occasionally at the hands of Doomsday), while most others at least teased, it, too...including Superman Returns.

- To bring things full circle, I should also bring up the fact that The Dark Knight Returns also ends a "death" albeit Batman's (he isn't really dead, either). That hopeful ending involves Superman overhearing Bruce's heartbeat. Some folks claim they can hear a heartbeat as we zoom in on Clark's coffin, and that's another DKR reference for you!

Mike Cecchini is the Editor in Chief of Den of Geek. You can read more of his work here. Follow him on Twitter @wayoutstuff.

from Books https://ift.tt/2JzT7p6

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bellesdomain · 7 years ago

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Starlight Express Workshop - what would I do?

A lot of talk has been floated about “Updating Starlight Express” and most of that seems to focus on the cosmetic elements, the choice of musical instrumentation, the costume design, and to be honest these are the elements of nostalgia which attract a lot of the audience! There’s no problem with the show looking or sounding like its 1980s roots. However the deeper issues of the show, the social politics, the representation and the role models for young minds, these need to be addressed. Also, the many alterations and re-writes over the years have left a patchwork of plot holes and elements lost in translation, and the show will enormously benefit from being unpicked, and cut from fresh cloth, to be put back together in a near identical result but strong and clean!

So I humbly present my personal opinions, as a fan who knows the show well. What would I do were I directing the overhaul of Starlight Express?

First - since the concept is on the table already - Gender switch Electra. Switching Poppa to Momma has been interesting, but vocally it doesn’t work, and I don’t think it particularly brings anything new to the show. However, female Electra would kick ass! she would immediately break the convention of “Engine = male”.

She would bring some complications - while I am all for bisexual representation onstage, I think it’s a bit much to expect Pearl to be able to consider Electra a “lover” immediately in “Make Up My Heart”. But then it’s somewhat ridiculous as the show stands that she’s taking Electra’s race invitation as seriously as Rusty’s interest in her, so regardless of Electra’s gender, I’d want to restore “He Whistled At Me” in place of “Make Up My Heart”. The Upbeat, funky song is far more fun anyway!

That then brings a complication - “He Whistled At Me” is the same melody as “Engine of Love”, so in order to not drive the audience mad at the repetition, Rusty’s introduction needs to me “Call Me Rusty”, which might benefit from being a more light-hearted tweak on the original, dark and angry version. However keeping the coaches’ section is important as it gives their perspective on Rusty’s hopeless optimism.

Second - Include Belle, the old Sleeping Car. Poppa’s coach, an older female character. “Belle’s Song” is one of the hidden gems in the show, but after the Broadway production she was cut, justified as she wasn’t needed in the plot. Well, I’d make her vital to the plot, as part of the third point... Also she would take her place in “Girl’s Rolling Stock”, where slight lyric changes are needed to express that the girls are convincing Dinah “You don’t need him” rather than “Take him back”.

Third - Logic in the Races. If you were to ask, say, Flat-Top what was most exciting about the races, he’d say it’s between Electricity and Diesel. Nobody takes Rusty seriously, it’s all about the fight between Electra and Greaseball. WHO WILL WIN? So, in order to stretch out that excitement, move Electra to Heat 2. Poppa still races in Heat 2 as well - and he races with Belle, his old partner. It’s not the weight of pulling Dustin that overloads him, simply his age. This is really important, as Dustin is the least likely race partner - except he races twice. If Poppa races with Belle, then when Rusty comes to pick Dustin as his partner for the Downhill Final, the reaction is “Oh no, don’t be ridiculous?” rather than the current “hmm, well, he managed ok last time I guess...” The “Two heats, two qualifiers from each” structure works well when it is observed, so it’s simply a matter of swapping Electra with Ruhrgold (or national engine of choice). Greaseball wins the first heat comfortably, and Ruhrgold comes second. The second heat is won by Electra, and Poppa crosses the finish line second to qualify.

Fourth - Ensemble piece, layered story. Starlight loses a lot of interest when it becomes “The Pearl and Rusty Show”. Scenes that don’t include either of them - such as Girl’s Rolling Stock, or Caboose’s character arc including “There’s Me”, are just as valuable to the show. It’s a rich and interesting world, especially when we get to know more characters.

Fifth - Control is Dreaming. This element is subtle but important. The child drifts off to sleep during the “Overture”, and from then on we’re seeing their dream. This is important because if Control is awake and playing, their conscious mind is creating these scenarios, they are choosing to beat up their favourite oldest engine, they’re choosing distinctly adult concepts of gender and sexuality well beyond their pre-pubescent years. However, if Control is asleep, then it is their unconscious mind at work, these elements are a way of processing the world they’re learning. For example, Electra is an openly sexual character, and comes from “The Future”. Control is a young kid, and sexuality is a subject that lies in their future. It’s intriguing and confusing and scary.

Linked to this concept, the “Entry of the National Trains” needs to be placed before AC/DC to allow for the full lullaby/to sleep/to dream sequence of the Overture. “Entry of the National Trains” works better in this position for two further reasons - it contextualises Electra’s arrival, and causes less confusion for the audience. The first characters the audience are introduced to are assumed to be important - and really, remembering the name of the Russian engine is not vital to understanding the plot!

One more small point about Electra - I would include “No Comeback”, as she throws the biggest tantrum, and storms out after losing the race! The melody is so deeply woven into the show already, yet its source is missing. While seeing Electra crashed and humiliated is poetic justice, the contrast with Greaseball and Caboose crashing and Electra storming off would add variety. Especially with Greaseball redeemed by the end, but Electra is not.

Finally, Love Song, I would want to use “Only You” for Rusty and Pearl - the duet version used as “Du Allein” in Germany for many years. Part of the glory of the Starlight Sequence is the blending of two strong themes from the show - Rusty’s questioning, lost in “Starlight Express”, and he finds his answer in the form of “Only You”. It’s the completion of the story, and having a new love song shoe-horned in loses that arc. The “Du Allein” version in particular suits Pearl’s character so well, it’s quieter and reflective rather than a big impassioned belter. As Pearl has finally stopped and taken the time to reflect on her choices, she realises her mistakes, and that version conveys the moment best.

So overall my choices land heavily on the original material, and I don’t think most of these changes would even be recognised as alterations by casual audience members - except for those who remember Electra as male. The audience would simply not find many flaws to criticise. My intention is to focus on the characters and telling their stories, the theatrical spectacle lies on top of solid characer based plot.

#Starlight Express #Stexworkshop

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comingupforblair · 7 years ago

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I'm so disappointed with mark hughes in regards to his suggestion of DCEU need to reboot. He said it is the best solution for DC since all their film except wonder woman is underperform at BO and the critical reception is negative to mixed. Sigh... I thought he is the big DCEU supporter. I can't believe it he said something like that when every DC film actually earn quite a lot of money and DVD sales. Just that people put too much expectations into thinking each DC film should be crack a billion

I get what he’s saying as I don’t want the DCEU to go on forever either and I know it will end some day too but this belief that They’re going to scrap the whole universe because of JL not doing as well as it could have, which ignores that it happened in a year when Warner Bros made five billion, is a bit like getting rid of a car because it has engine problems, especially when there are things They have now that They’re not going to be able to repeat in a reboot. You’ve got the JL and other characters played by actors who are perfectly suited to it, you’ve got some really interesting film makers who can bring new visions to the table, and you’ve got some major accomplishments in the past.

I want a new DC cinematic universe at some point but I want Them to make all the films They have planned first.

Part of me is inclined to agree that it would be better to just start over so as to not have to deal with all the negative shit that’s been accumulated against the films and which people refuse to ease up on. But I also think that the future looks brighter and JL’s box office performance has the potential to be a turning point for the franchise in a good way. If nothing else, JL’s tone has shielded Them from the ‘’grimdark’’ bullshit that was the major criticism of the films.

I read the rest of the article and most of the ideas outlined, such using Matt Reeves’ Batman films to launch an unconnected universe, are fairly impractical. I love Mark Hughes but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he says.

I’m for any resolution to this whole thing that won’t result in a universe brimming with potential for unique visions becoming reduced to the same formulaic shit that Marvel puts out every year with jokes coming out of every orifice and ‘’fun’’ held as the domineering priority nor do I want a version of Superman dragged straight from 1978. But I’m also sick of having to fight for these films and I want to stop. If that means indulging the anti-DCEU crowd like you might a horrible child throwing a tantrum, I’m starting to think it would be worth the problems down the line just to not have to listen to Their bullshit anymore.

Maybe the universe ending will be what causes the people who’ve been so intensely nasty to finally reflect on Their behavior and realize how horrible They have been.

If nothing else, it would be great to go a month without having to slap down some new rumor about Ben Affleck leaving.

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robininthelabyrinth · 8 years ago

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Hole in the Fence (Coldwave with goats) - 4

Fic: Hole in the Fence (ao3 link) - chapter 4/4 Fandom: Flash, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow Pairing: Mick Rory/Leonard Snart

Summary: Mick Rory’s life was changed forever by the fire he didn’t escape.

(in which Mick Rory retires, raises goats, and saves the world more than a few times)

————————————————————————————

“So, I’ve got something new,” Len says.

“Is this related to the Zoom thing?” Mick asks without looking up.

In calculating his invasion plans, Zoom had severely underestimated the charisma of what is now indisputably the chief supervillain of Central City, Leonard Snart, leader of the Rogues.

To be more precise, Barry had asked Mick, who had asked Len, who had gathered up all the supervillains or would-be supervillains in town and they’d attacked Zoom in force.

Zoom might have been fast and he might have all sorts of snazzy tricks like throwing lightning and duplicating himself – that one had been a fun discovery – but Leonard Snart lives to disappoint people.

Of course, Len had invited everyone to a barbeque afterwards, Team Flash and Rogues alike. They’d made it a masquerade so everyone could go home, identities intact and bellies full.

That was approximately when Mick learned that Len had declared Mick’s farm to be a neutral territory, respected by all, and Barry had backed that up with threats of rather-un-superhero-like super-fast violence. This mostly results in scared metas heading to Mick’s farm before they go anywhere else or try to turn their powers into a villain gimmick – though if there’s any more of them coming soon, Mick will need to bring in Ji-hyun to the farm to work as a full-time intake therapist for terrified metahumans, and she won’t like that.

Maybe she has an intern she can recommend…

“No, it’s not related to the Zoom thing,” Len says. “I got kidnapped today.”

Mick looks up sharply.

Mick had gotten kidnapped once, from the farmer’s market – some Santini Family goons trying to make a name for themselves. The Flash had rescued him within twenty minutes and had apologized profusely for the delay: he’d had to find someone to cover their stall while he zipped off to the rescue.

Mick approves of Barry’s priorities.

Len is grinning, though, so he’s not thinking about that, or about his total overreaction of icing every Santini joint in the entire city.

“I’m listening,” Mick says.

“Time travel,” Len says grandly.

Mick arches his eyebrows, unimpressed. “What’s Barry done now?”

“No, no, not time travel with Barry. Time travel. There’s a guy with a time ship, says he’s from the future –”

“Like Eobard?”

“No, not like Eobard! An actual time traveler, no speedster involved. He’s trying to avert some terrible catastrophe or something and he’s trying to recruit some suckers to help him out.”

Mick can’t help but smile. “And you want to be one of those suckers?”

“You bet your ass I do,” Len says, grinning. “I want to rob history.”

“Bring me back the Mona Lisa,” Mick says, amused despite himself. Len and his crazy plans. “Or at least a nice copy.”

“Actually,” Len says.

“Actually?”

“I was thinking for this one, you’d come along with.”

Mick’s eyebrows arch. It’s been a long time since Len had suggested Mick join him on a job. A long time. Not since before the fire long time. “I’m out of the game,” he points out. “I’m retired.”

“Time travel,” Len replies. “Once in a lifetime opportunity.”

Mick hums. That’s true.

“What about the goats?” he asks.

“Mab can handle them,” Len says. “She’s been on your ass to stop experimenting and let her cement the gains she’s already made for ages, Mick. A vacation’ll do you some good.”

“You think I can handle it?”

Len grins. “I’ll make sure of it.”

They pack up everything they think they might need – Mick’s wheelchair and cane, which Cisco has improved; his lotions, his sunscreen, his pills, medication in case of any sudden graft rejection, which remains a threat even so long later. They bring his lighters and both their guns, and Len throws the whole giant pack on his back and staggers his way to the car.

Mick drives them to the meeting place.

“Ah, excellent!” the guy in charge – Rip Hunter, Len had said his name was – rubbing his hands together. “I was hoping you would bring your partner in crime, Mr. Snart.”

Len’s eyebrows arch up. “Of course. Wouldn't go without him,” he says, but the look he sends to Mick is eloquent.

Mick nods.

He waits until they go onto the ship – he scoops up a black kid who looks like he got roofied, but Mick’s not asking – to ask one of the other people on board, a black woman with an anxious look, “Hey, I missed the first meeting. Can you get me up to date?”

He listens as the woman – Kendra, she says her name is – recounts the whole story.

“Okay,” he says.

“What?” she replies, frowning a little at him. His tone must not have been as neutral as he was hoping.

“We’re being conned,” he explains. “I figure you should know before we take off.”

She stands up a little straighter. “How’s that?”

“Yeah, what do you mean?” the woman in white that Len had been talking to earlier asks, frowning.

“Time travel guy said you were legends in the future, right?” Mick asks.

“Yeah,” a tall guy with a stupid overly-styled haircut says. “Heroes.”

“He’s lying.”

“What makes you say that?” Kendra asks.

“He doesn’t know shit about us,” Mick says. “He called me Len’s criminal partner.”

“So?”

“I was, but I’ve been retired for three, four years now.”

“Maybe he just miscalculated the time,” the woman in white offers, but he can see from the scowl on her face that she’s concerned.

“How could he’ve?” Len drawls, coming close until he's standing by Mick's side. “We haven’t even gone on the mission that supposedly makes our names famous yet.”

“What does that mean?” tall guy asks. “That he’s lying?”

“Means we’re not legends,” Mick says.

“Yeah,” Len says. “We’re patsies. I’m willing to play along for now, ‘cause I want to go time-travelling, but you all seem like –” He sneers a bit. “– heroic types who might care about that sort of thing.”

“Figured you ought to know up front,” Mick agrees.

“I don’t believe you,” tall guy says, crossing his arms.

“I don’t know why he’d lie to us that way,” woman in white says.

Kendra is frowning, though, but what she might’ve said gets cut off by her boyfriend calling for her.

“Don’t say we didn’t warn you,” Mick says.

It takes getting attacked by a trio of time bounty hunters that look like Stormtroopers for Hunter to confess.

Mick and Len just share long-suffering looks as the heroes start kicking up a stink about it.

“I’m going to my room,” Mick grunts, shaking his head. “You lot figure out your moral crisis without us.”

Len follows him. “Lotion time,” he says. It’s not a suggestion.

“I didn’t over-exert myself shooting at those bounty hunters.”

“Yet. The day ain’t over. I’d like to apply another layer of the sunscreen, too, while we’re at it.”

Mick grumbles and lies down.

Len is very, very thorough.

Mick ends up falling asleep about halfway through, which means he did come closer to over-exerting himself than he ought to have, damnit.

When he wakes up, he hears Len talking to someone, not far outside his room.

“- some form of improved version of it,” Len is saying. “You’re from the future.”

“I’m sorry, Mr. Snart,” Gideon says apologetically. “Although I am capable of full regenerations, those are dependent on my access to a version of the body prior to the injury. If you were injured, for instance, I could likely return you to your current status – even if you had received an amputation.”

“Got it,” Len says. “Okay, fine. Let’s talk treatment options, then – starting with joint pain. He gets that a lot; locks up his knees pretty bad.”

“I have several alternative treatments –”

Mick shakes his head. No wonder Len was so eager to get Mick onto his trip through time; even if Gideon can’t fix him right away, Mick’s sure Len won’t rest until he’s gotten some form of future treatment for him.

Mick wouldn’t mind his joints not hurting so much.

He’ll have to remind Len to ask about the itching, too…

He yawns.

Later. He’ll go back to sleep and worry about Len’s devious plotting later.

He should’ve worried about it immediately.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“You need someone to steal it,” Ray says.

“Okay, fine, whatever, I’ll do it,” Len drawls, plucking the picture out of Rip’s hands. He’s been dying to go do something.

“Very well,” Rip says. “You and Mr. Rory will –”

“Nah,” Len says. “I’ll take Haircut here.”

Ray – who had clearly been about to volunteer to go supervise – blinks. “Really?” he asks, sounding halfway between offended and flattered.

“You do what I say,” Len warns him. “If you screw it up, I’m ditching you – or your dead body – in a bog.”

Ray now just looks offended. “I won’t screw it up –”

“Listen, boy scout –”

“Uh, actually, I got all 129 merit badges, so technically I’m an Eagle Scout.”

Len pauses, then shakes his head in mute disbelief.

Mick hides a smile behind a hand. Kendra seems to be in a similar state of amusement.

“Fine. Whatever,” Len says patiently. “Eagle scout. If the mission was for me to go fix your suit, would you want me to follow your lead?”

“Well, obviously –”

“Because it’s your thing, right?”

“Yes, I mean –”

“And this is my thing. So follow my lead.”

“How hard can stealing be?” Ray asks, crossing his arms.

“Clearly not very, given that someone let you run a multi-million dollar corporation,” Len replies. “But before you answer that, I’d like to think about the number of people who end up in jail for theft. Come, or don’t, but remember - dead body in a bog.”

He sweeps off.

Ray rushes to follow him.

“You aren’t going to go with him?” Kendra asks Mick.

“Nah,” Mick says. “Gideon’s gonna give me some treatment for my joints. I’m retired on account of injury.” He jerks a thumb at his back.

“Oh, I’m sorry,” she says, looking apologetic. People do that sometimes.

“I’ve gotten used to it,” he says. “Wanna see a picture of my goats?”

“Goats…?”

He pulls a few pictures out of his wallet. “Yeah, I run a dairy farm outside of Central now…”

“Oh my god,” Kendra exclaims, her voice gone high-pitched. “They’re so cute!”

“What’s cute?” Sara asks, coming over.

The fearsome assassin dissolves into a girl in her early twenties within moments of seeing the photographs.

“Look at this one,” she coos. “He’s so small! Tiny goat baby!”

“Actually, that one’s just a runt,” Mick corrects. “These are our current batch of kids.” He pulls out a photograph with Len fast asleep on the couch, crashing after a complicated heist well-planned and well-executed, four baby kids learning to climb on his back and a few more prancing around on the ground.

It's one of his favorite photos of all time.

Both women start cooing so hard he thinks it might hurt them.

Mick’s making a good first impression. He doesn’t think he’s ever done that before.

Time to move in for the kill.

“You know, when we get back to 2017, you’re welcome to come to visit,” Mick says. “Play with some of the goats.”

“Oh my god, are you kidding? Obviously yes!” Kendra enthuses. Mick notices that her boyfriend is giving him dirty looks.

“I also packed some of our cheese if you’d like to try it…”

“Sure!”

After he gives them samples of the cheese, Carter is definitely glaring.

Mick doesn’t care. It’s not Mick’s fault his cheeses are more orgasmic than Carter is.

Sara heads out to go meet Stein’s younger self, which sounds like a terrible idea to Mick, but whatever.

Mick and Kendra spend the next few hours debating the pros and cons of adding sheep to Mick’s goat herd. Pro: sheep milk cheese, blended cheeses, shearing for wool means yarn and sweaters are a serious possibility, lamb for dinner. Con: need to introduce a whole new system, increase in costs, no idea how to shear sheep.

Kendra also suggests the possibility of getting some Angora or Cashmere goats, which Mick finds very intriguing…

Carter spends that time being very annoyed, since he apparently wanted to use the time to try to get the picture of the dagger to help ‘reawaken’ Kendra’s memories.

Perhaps unsurprisingly to everyone but Carter, Kendra prefers the sheep discussion.

Their radio crackles to life.

“Hey, Mick,” Len’s voice is pleasant.

Too pleasant.

Mick sits up straight. “Lenny’s in trouble,” he says.

“What makes you say –” she starts.

“Haircut triggered the alarm,” Len continues, voice just as pleasant as before, which means he’s seriously contemplating killing the guy. “We are now in a cage. We’ll probably need someone to come get the fuse box – especially since the owner’s probably on his way.”

Mick shakes his head. “I’ll go,” he says. “You Rosetta Stone it up with hawk-boy, Kendra.”

“Yeah, I guess you’re right,” she sighs.

“Listen,” Mick says. “Just because you fell for him in the past doesn’t give him a shortcut, okay? You’re a different person. Getting back together with your ex after 200 times might seem nice and all, but it doesn’t mean it is.”

“I think I had a relationship like that in high school,” Kendra grumbles, but she goes.

Mick goes and finds the fuse box.

He also finds Savage.

He gets dragged down to the first floor and used to force Len to lure in Carter and Kendra.

He hates that.

Not quite as much as Len hates watching it, though. He promises to kill Savage, and he means it, too.

They do get the dagger, though.

“Go kill that son of a bitch,” Len says, offering Kendra the dagger.

“I’ll go,” Carter interrupts, grabbing the dagger before she can take it.

“Shouldn’t Kendra do it?” Mick asks.

“There is no need for her to bear that burden,” Carter says.

“I feel like that’s the attitude that got you guys killed 200 times,” Len says. “But have it your way.”

Carter goes, Kendra close behind.

Rip is shouting orders, guards are everywhere, and Mick looks at Len.

Len looks at Mick.

“Maybe we should go help them,” Mick says. “Their track record ain’t great.”

“Good point,” Len says.

They get there just in time to find Savage stabbing Carter, laughing about how only Kendra can do the deed with the dagger because of course it wouldn't be that easy.

Something ephemeral starts to come out of Carter’s mouth.

“Right then,” Len says, and ices the back of Savage’s head, forcing him to drop Carter and back off.

Mick charges forward to grab Kendra even as she throws herself at Savage – and at the dagger.

“Jax!” he roars. “Need a pick-up!”

“Carter!” Kendra screams.

“You can’t kill me,” Savage laughs in Len’s face. He still has the dagger. “I will finish off Prince Khufu and then Chay-ara –”

“At the moment,” Len says, “I’ll settle for slowing you down.”

He ices Savage, feet to head, and uses his gun to smash the ice.

The dagger falls from Savage’s frozen hand to Len’s feet.

“I’ll get Carter,” Mick tells Kendra as he hands her over to Jax. “He’s not dead yet.”

“His last words – I need to hear him – to tell him –”

“Jesus, stop being such a goth!” Mick exclaims. “Let’s try to save him, first!”

“Mick!” Len shouts. He’s crouched over Carter’s body.

Mick turns and runs over. His shoulders and back – the burns – are itching; his neck is damp with sweat as his body tries to deal with all the exertion. His joints all ache and he’s limping badly. He’s gasping for air.

He’s barely been out in the field for an hour.

Fucking burns.

“I need your gun,” Len says.

“What?”

“He’s bleeding like a stuck pig,” Len says. “We need to burn him.”

Mick hesitates.

“Bleeders die within hours, Mick,” Len says. “Burn victims…”

“Mostly die two to three weeks after,” Mick says, understanding. “And we’ve got future tech, which gives us better than average odds.”

“Sorry, Carter,” Len says. “It’s for your own good.”

Carter screams bloody murder, but he survives the trip back to the ship.

Rip meets them at the door, face pale. “What did you do?” he demands.

“Mick,” Len says.

Mick lets go of Carter, steps forward, and punches Rip in the face.

Feels good, being the muscle again.

Then his shoulders cramp.

Oh, right. Fuck exercise. Fuck it with a goddamn pole.

“Mr. Rory!” Rip splutters.

“Hey, computer,” Mick snaps. “Get us somewhere safe.”

“Taking us to the temporal zone now, Mr. Rory –”

“Not there. Somewhere we can park where no one’ll follow. Top of a mountain or something.”

“Will do, Mr. Rory.”

“Gideon!” Rip yelps.

“It makes sense,” Mick tells him. “We need to care for our wounded.”

“Is Mr. Carter…?”

“Dunno, but there’s a chance of him living, which is better than not,” Mick says. “You can keep your useless yammering for later.”

Rip looks insulted, but Mick honestly doesn’t care.

They go to the medical bay, where Gideon is already patching Carter up.

“His vitals are unusually low,” she is telling Len, who’s nodding.

“Probably Savage sucking the life out of him,” he says. “But he’s not dead, at least.”

“Indeed. Your timely intervention appears to in fact have saved his life.”

Kendra is there.

Mick goes to her, nudges her. “Still doesn’t have to be your boyfriend,” he reminds her.

She smiles, eyes watery. “I don’t want to lose him,” she confesses. “But I don’t know – I was so sure, when he was dying, that I truly loved him. But now I’m worried it was more about not wanting to give up the possibility of soulmates. You know?”

“You can take your time in deciding,” Mick tells her.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mick waits until the Legends are out for their next mission – a bank heist, apparently, or something like that; Len had looked seriously pained by their lack of planning – before going to the medical bay to sit by a still-recovering Carter.

Gideon is apparently well-equipped for many things, but burns are still serious business.

“You know you nearly got you and your ladyfriend killed,” Mick tells him pleasantly. “Right?”

“Is this a lecture?” Carter asks, groaning. “Or a request for a thank you?”

“It’s a ‘don’t be such a presumptive prick, and also if you don’t stop harassing the lady I’m going to knock your teeth out’ sort of talk,” Mick says.

“I’m not harassing her –”

“Man who goes after a woman and doesn’t listen when she says no? How do you call it, then? Being romantic? I don’t care what era you’re from, that shit don’t fly nowadays.”

Carter scowls. “We fell in love two hundred and seven times –”

“Which means she thinks you’re hot, which gives you an advantage,” Mick says patiently. “But if you want her not to fall in love with you in this lifetime, just keep doing what you’re doing.”

“You don’t know –”

“You’re relying on her memories of you being charming in a past life to get her into your bed,” Mick says. “That’s bullshit. Maybe past life you was raised by someone who actually taught him respect for women; maybe you grew up with a bunch of assholes. Doesn’t change the fact that Kendra is who she is now as well as who she used to be, and you’re who you are now.”

Carter crosses his arms. “I don’t need your advice,” he says stiffly.

Mick shrugs. You can bring a horse to water… “Okay,” he says. “Just putting in my two cents.”

“It’s not appreciated.”

“Also, wanted to tell you that if you keep acting like this, I’m gonna kill you.”

Carter snorts, but his amusement fades when Mick keeps looking at him steadily. “…you mean that.”

“Sure thing,” Mick says, as pleasantly as he can manage. He's not quite at Len's murder-with-a-smile level of intimidation, but he's not half bad at it. “Most burn victims die two, three weeks later, which means you’re gonna be sitting on the bench with me for the foreseeable future, even with Gideon’s tech.”

“You wouldn’t kill me,” Carter says, but it’s weak. “We’re on the same team – you need Kendra and I to defeat Savage!”

Mick raises his eyebrows. “You reincarnate,” he points out. “We’ll go to the future, pick up your next life. Maybe that version of you’ll have better manners.”

Carter looks dumbfounded.

“Good thing about your reincarnation business,” Mick says cheerfully, hoisting himself up out of the chair. “It means that Prince Khufu’ll still be around – but you, Carter Hall you, is more or less exchangeable. Ain't that right? Just like you keep telling Kendra that the only part of her you care about is Chay-ara. Think on that.”

He leaves, but it looks like Carter does think on it, because he suddenly gets much better about calling Kendra ‘Kendra’ instead of ‘Chay-ara’ and asking to learn info about her life instead of just assuming he already knows everything of importance.

They also seem to be engaging in more couple bonding activities, like watching Ray Palmer fix his suit, a process that requires him to wear very little clothing and become increasingly covered in grease.

Both Carter and Kendra seem to enjoy that fact immensely.

“The hawks that prey together, stay together?” Len murmurs into Mick’s ear.

Mick snorts. “Should we warn Haircut?”

“I wouldn’t warn Haircut if I saw him playing with a loaded gun that has its safety off.”

“You’re gonna need to forgive him eventually,” Mick points out. “He wasn’t the one that held a gun on me and threw me to the ground a few times; that was Savage.”

“If it wasn’t for Haircut’s sticky fingers, I would’ve been in and out with the dagger,” Len says, unmoved. “And you wouldn’t have even come into the house at all. Savage would’ve never even seen you.”

“At least we still have the dagger,” Mick says. He’s not getting to go anywhere until Len stops being quite so panicked about Mick being in danger.

He makes a point of insisting on going on the next mission just to make a point.

It occurs to Mick, when he’s thrown into the Russian gulag, that Len isn’t going to allow him off the Waverider ever again.

“What’re the odds Len burns the whole place down trying to get to me?” Mick asks Ray.

Ray – who’d been dealing with an increasingly bitchy Snart, which isn’t good for anyone’s health – grins a little. “I’m going to go with ‘pretty good’. Think he’ll commandeer the Waverider?”

Mick opens his mouth to answer, only for a gigantic blast to go off on the other side of the prison.

“Make that ‘definitely’,” Ray amends.

The rescue is short but sweet.

Len is about three seconds away from a panic attack. Sara and Kendra are taking turns calming him down.

“I got it, girls,” Mick tells them. “Len, I’m fine, Jesus.”

“You’re supposed to be retired,” Len growls. “Retired and safe. You’re not supposed to be running into armed guards.”

“See what I deal with?” Mick complains theatrically, causing both girls – who had been grinning fatuously at the two of them – to start snickering. “I’m amazed you got Rip to sign on to this, though. Not too many timeline changes?”

“We bonked him over the head, tied him up and gagged him,” Sara says cheerfully. “It was that or Len would’ve killed him.”

“You’re such a drama queen,” Mick tells Len, who crosses his arms, utterly unrepentant.

Rip is immensely not pleased by their solution, but Gideon reports no serious timeline damage has been done. Coincidentally, the blasts also erased all evidence of the Firestorm research Valentina had been doing and killed her. The Soviet authorities assumed that the blast was related to her research and covered it up very efficiently.

The Waverider ends up being attacked on its way out of Russia by the Stormtroopers Three, causing them crash-land in the future. A future filled with violence and lawlessness and unguarded banks.

“I’m going to go stretch my legs,” Len says casually, convincing literally no one of his innocence.

“Want help?” Mick asks.

“You will stay in the Waverider, Mick, or so help me…”

Mick sniggers and goes to play sudoku with Carter, who’s developed a minor infection-related fever and also a much worse case of cabin fever. It isn’t easy to be benched, but Mick’s got a lot of practice.

Sara obtains the ship piece they need to get out of this place and starts a revolution in her spare time, but apparently that’s okay.

Rip’s next big plan involves pirates.

“Send Jax and Stein together,” Len suggests. “That way, anything goes wrong, they Firestorm their way out.”

The second Rip and Firestorm are out the door, the rest of them start betting on how quickly it’ll all go wrong.

They all underestimate it badly, because the hull gets breached and Len and Sara do their best impression of people wanting to freeze to death.

Mick burns a hole into the steel-plated door with his gun set on max heat and hands the gun through to Len so Len can melt some metal over where the hull has been breached.

“You’re going to pay for this,” he tells his partner. “All that worrying you do about me, and then you nearly ice cube yourself?”

“Ray’s getting the outside, right?” Len says, ignoring Mick’s perfectly reasonable query.

“He’s going there now,” Kendra says, hovering by Mick’s side. “You melting the inside will seal the breach on the inside so that you don't freeze or run out of air; it'll also make it easier for him to seal it from the outside.”

Ray still nearly manages to kill himself thanks to his not-designed-for-space suit, but given the way that Kendra and Carter fuss over him after, Mick suspects he doesn’t mind.

Then they go rescue Rip, who is not particularly gracious about getting knocked over the head again in order to keep him from screwing up his own rescue.

“If you weren’t constantly leading us into traps or making plans that didn’t work, we’d respect you more,” Mick points out.

“You’re hardly one to talk,” Rip says stiffly and angrily. “You’re only here because Mr. Snart wouldn’t go without you; my plans to save the world hardly involved recruiting an insane arsonist with the IQ of meat.”

Mick’s not even insulted – he knows he wasn’t invited, not really, and he's heard the rest of that many times before – but Sara darting forward to slap Rip across the face is surprisingly satisfying.

“Mick Rory,” she says sternly, “is a far finer, far more useful man than you ever were, Rip Hunter.”

“And you should damn well remember that,” Kendra adds, glaring.

The glaring works really well with the hawk-eyes, Mick’s just saying.

“I’m honored to call Rory a companion,” Carter adds. “He saved my life and has demonstrated himself to be both intelligent, compassionate and cunning. I have yet to see any reason to say the same about you.”

“I didn’t mean –”

Len appears at the doorway. He’s got a nice, pleasant smile on.

“Oh, you’re in for it now,” Ray says. He knows that smile far too well.

“Heard you were talking shit about my partner. That true, Rip?”

Rip looks around at them.

Mick crosses his arms and smirks.

“Mr. Rory,” he says, very stiffly. “It appears I owe you an apology.”

“Damn right you do,” Mick says.

Okay, fine.

Maybe he does like this team.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“So Jax got turned into a hawk,” Len says, rubbing at his face. “We nearly ditched Ray, Kendra, Sara, and Carter for two years due to a technical failure of all things.”

“We’re all very grateful you convinced Rip to come back to three months later instead,” Kendra says from where she’s happily perched on Ray’s lap.

Apparently, she, Carter, and Ray handled those three months very productively, pretending to be two sets of couples to cover for Sara’s parade of lovers of both sexes and their own ménage a trois.

“That’s not the point,” Len says. “How are we fucking this up so bad?”

“It’s pretty impressive,” Mick agrees.

“If the next mission fucks up, I’m assuming sabotage,” Len decides.

Of course, in the next mission, Rip decides child-murder is the right way to proceed and promptly gets knocked out again.

“Eventually he’s going to get a concussion or something,” Mick observes.

“Please,” Sara – who had done the knocking-out – says. “I’m an assassin. I was gentle.”

“Why in the world would we go after a kid instead of after Savage directly?” Len asks, utterly bemused. “Just because we couldn’t get him in Russia and the plan to get Kendra close enough to stab him in 1958 didn’t work because he got tipped off somehow…”

“Attempt at Savage, take three,” Kendra sighs. Carter pats her shoulder.

Take three is a failure.

Again.

“You must stop knocking me out!” Rip shouts.

“I don’t know why we keep failing,” Kendra says, bewildered. “I was so close when the robots attacked!”

“It does seem like we’re being set up,” Len observes. His arms are crossed and his eyes are narrow.

“But by who?” Carter asks.

“And how?” Mick adds.

“You’re all being ridiculous,” Rip says. "No one is setting us up. I told you at the beginning; time is just very difficult to change."

"All these aberrations we keep having to fix don't make it seem that way," Len grumbles.

They go back to the Wild West next.

“I’m going out and you can’t stop me,” Mick tells Len.

“I would never miss the sight of you in cowboy gear,” Len says mildly. “I’m bringing a camera. And getting photographs. Many photographs. Would you like a bandana?”

“You know what, I think I will,” Mick says.

“You are both ridiculous,” Sara says.

“I’m naming a goat after you,” Mick tells her. “When I get home. I can’t decide – ‘Blondie’ or ‘Canary-brain’.”

“I’m gonna drink you under the table,” Sara says.

“I’m retired.”

“Means you have more time to drink.”

“Not on his medications, he ain’t,” Len says. “Let’s go gamble instead.”

About ten minutes in, people are laughing.

About half an hour in, they’re not.

An hour in, they’ve accumulated a crowd.

Len, Mick, Sara, and – surprisingly – Stein are all playing with grins so wide their teeth are bared.

“I miss playing high stakes,” Stein says, selecting a card.

“Wouldn’t have pegged you for a Central City rules kinda guy,” Len drawls.

“My father was a card-counter,” Stein says. “I learned at his knee – and I was quite good at it.”

They put their cards down.

“Not good enough,” Mick says, and sweeps the pot towards himself.

“Another round,” one of their audience calls.

“Don’t see why not,” Len says.

Ray takes advantage of their distraction to pick a fight with the local gang.

Kendra and Carter go to visit a past version of Kendra, and round up back to rescue Jax from an ill-fated venture.

“We could have shot them out at high noon in order to get Mr. Jackson back,” Rip grumbles.

“Stop letting your drama get in the way of our mission,” Ray says nobly.

Mick would believe in Ray’s newfound practical turn a lot more if Kendra and Carter’s arms weren’t wrapped around his waist.

“I thought you wanted to save the town, Dr. Palmer - or should I say, Sheriff John Wayne?”

“And we will be saving the town,” Kendra says. “But not at the expense of Jax.” She grins. “We’ve challenged what's-his-name to a duel on your behalf for control of the town, and nothing else. Have fun.”

Rip wins, of course, not being totally useless, but the time it takes to happen is enough for the Stormtroopers to catch up with them.

They’re called Hunters, apparently; the Time Masters deploy them.

And before they die, they mention another hunter coming after them, one called the Pilgrim.

“This is increasingly ridiculous,” Len says. “Hunters? Pilgrims? What’s next, Cops and Robbers? The Terminator? Dragons?”

“This is serious, Mr. Snart! We need to go to periods of temporal dislocation – places where we could have been killed –”

Len’s eyes glint. “Let’s go,” he says.

They rescue Jax’s childhood self first – a near drowning, age five.

Sara’s next, a shoot-out at her dad’s office when she was eighteen.

Ray after that; only a few years prior, an experiment that exploded but only shrunk him rather than kill him.

Next is –

“I know where we go next,” Len says.

“Where?” Rip snaps. “There are no more temporal distortions for us to track the Pilgrim’s progress – if we’re mistaken, we will lose a crew member!”

“What, like your idea is so much better?” Kendra snaps. “Removing babies and risking deletion from the timeline due to our own actions? We’re taking enough risk with the ones we’ve already removed!”

“Mr. Snart, how could you possibly know when the point most likely for one of us to be removed from the timeline –” Stein starts.

“Shreveport,” Len says. “We’re going to Shreveport.”

Mick freezes.

“A few years back. Gideon knows the date. Gideon, confirm,” Len adds.

“A scan of Mr. Rory’s timeline states that that is the most likely period for him to be omitted without effect,” Gideon confirms.

“We don’t know if he’s the next one on the list.”

“He is,” Len says.

“Why?”

“Because they’re going in alphabetical order, dumbass,” Jax says. “Last name, like in grade school.”

Len’s not looking at Mick. His eyes are fixed on Gideon’s holographic face.

“Len,” Mick says.

“Set course, Gideon,” Len says. His voice is pleasant and set in stone; Ray’s back straightens just at the sound of it.

Mick knows the tone well; the others have learned it too, over the last few months.

Leonard Snart does not intend to be deterred.

Mick should’ve known.

“Len,” he hisses. “Can we talk?”

“Setting course, Mr. Snart,” Gideon confirms.

“Sure, Mick,” Len says, and Mick draws him back to the wall. The others pull away, Sara grabbing Rip by the arm and hauling him when he doesn’t move fast enough. It’s not real privacy, not by a long shot, but it’s something.

Mick turns Len to look him in the eye, hoping to see something, some hesitation, some doubt, something he can use to break through the ice that Len uses a shield, but there’s nothing.

Len’s as calm and quiet as a sea without wind.

“You can’t stop the fire,” Mick tells him. “You can’t, Len.”

Len arches his eyebrows.

“Damnit, Len! This is why you brought me on this trip, isn’t it? For this.”

“I brought you because you’re my partner,” Len says. “Variable timeline – I would never risk anything happening to your timeline without you by my side, not for nothing but this. You think I would go on a quest with a man clearly deranged with grief for anything less?”

Mick sucks a breath in, then exhales. “Len –”

“You can’t tell me you don’t want it,” Len snarls, suddenly violent with emotion, all of it rising the surface, painting his cheeks red; the ice cracking all at once in a sudden wave of sheer rage. “You hate being out of the game. You hate being left behind. Every goddamn time I go out, you ask me if I want you; every goddamn time I say no when all I want to say is yes. You’re my partner, Mick, and I led you to the flame and I left you to it. Nothing can erase my mistakes, I’ve always known that – or did, until Rip showed up and offered me a way to the past.”

“I never asked this of you,” Mick says. His lips are numb. He should’ve known. Leonard Snart, the planner, the one who sees the big picture. The one who needs only a glimpse of a part to see the whole; the one who can see opportunities in the direst of circumstances. “I never – I don’t hate it, Len. I don’t.”

“Oh, sure,” Len says, and his voice is still savage. “You love your farm, you love the goats. I know you do. You’ve made the best of the life that I left you. But I could stop it, Mick. I could stop all of it. We could be together, just like we were before; you my right hand, my muscle, the one who has my back when no one else does. A few adjustments at the right time…”

Mick reaches up, cups the back of Leonard’s head with his palm. It’s not a gesture he does often. It’s too intimate, too private, too much emotion for men like them to ever comfortably admit to. He does it rarely, and almost never outside their home.

The farm, he means.

It cuts Len off, silences him utterly, and Mick leans forward, touching their foreheads lightly together for just a brief second, before pulling away.

Len’s eyes are wide and dark and gutted.

“Len,” Mick says, and his voice is gentle. “No.”

“But why not?” Len whispers. “I’m not going to try to prevent the fire entirely – just avert it a little, call the ambulances a little earlier. I’ve done the math, Mick – fourth degree burns would be third; third would be second. You’d have the scars, yes, but the muscle damage wouldn’t be there. The lung damage; that was late. If they got there sooner, the smoke wouldn’t have gotten as bad, the monoxide wouldn’t have built up so much in your lungs. You would’ve woken up in the ambulance and you would’ve had options. No more limp, Mick; think of it! No more medicines for your skin grafts, for your blood pressure, for the pneumonia, nothing.”

“No more you, Len,” Mick says, because it’s all clear now. It’s all so painfully clear.

Len stares at him, not understanding.

“You were out, Len,” Mick reminds him, though it pains him to do so; he can see the ice cracking into jagged shards that hurt Len so much more than anyone else. “You told me so yourself. If it wasn’t so bad as it was, you would’ve left me.”

“I would’ve come back,” Len whispers. He doesn’t deny it; he’s never denied it. Leonard Snart is in or he is out, and there is no in between. “I would’ve come back, Mick. I always come back to you.”

“I know,” Mick says. “I know. But Len – I have so much more of you now. More than I’d ever had before. You come home with me every night; you wake up with me every morning; you even check with me about your plans. I know it’s because you’ve lost confidence in yourself, which I hate; I would do anything to reverse that and give you back yourself – anything but this, Len. We had safe-houses, before, a dozen or more; now –” He swallows. “Now we have a home.”

“Mick,” Len whispers.

“I do hate being left behind,” Mick says, and his voice is gruff. “You’re right about that. But I hate it because I want to be at your side, always; not because of what happened to me. I’ve made myself a new life, now, and it’s not a bad one, Len. It’s a good one. I have you, I have the farm, I have the goddamn goats. If you change this, you risk changing everything else.”

He runs his palm over Len’s scalp, brushing his fingers lightly through Len’s close-clipped hair. His throat hurts, tight with emotion; he doesn’t make speeches like this for a good reason.

“I won’t give up what I have, not for an uncertain future. Not to be alone for months, maybe years. To have you, I’ll take all of it – the temperature adjustments, the medicines, the limp, the coughing, everything. Don’t do it, Len.”

“Mick…”

“Please.”

Len closes his eyes in defeat.

Mick inclines his head. He knows what this means to Len; he knows what Len is giving up – the hope that Rip Hunter sparked in him, his dearest hope, above riches and gold and even adventure: to see those he loved safe and well and never harmed.

Len would destroy himself to save his sister; Mick learned that when Len tried to save his father from a prison fate he much deserved, a little jaunt that Mick didn’t learn about until after it had been tried and failed.

He should have known that Len would do no less for him.

“Len,” Mick says. It’s an acknowledgement of what Len’s given up for him.

It’s a plea for forgiveness.

“We go to Shreveport to stop the Pilgrim,” Len says. “And nothing more.”

Mick nods.

“Thank you,” he says.

“For you,” Len says, and smiles, though his smile is shadowed again with pain that Mick hadn’t even realized had been lifted until he sees it return. “Anything.”

“We’re arriving,” Sara says from the door. Her eyes are fixed on the door, as if she could see nothing else.

Mick takes a step back.

“I’ll get her for you,” Len promises.

They go.

Mick stays, and breathes in hard, what he would almost call a sob except for the fact that he doesn’t cry like that. He hadn’t – he wasn’t –

Len was right.

He does hate it, sometimes. More than sometimes. His new limitations make everything so much harder than it has to be. He can’t sit in a shadowed booth in the farmer’s market all day without a bucket of water and an equally large bucket of sunscreen, regularly applied, much less actually go on heists or exert himself. He still needs a wheelchair, some days.

If you’d asked him yesterday what he’d trade to be hearty and whole again, he’d have said anything.

Turns out, when the moment of truth came, there were some things he wouldn't trade, after all.

Mick lets go of that hope he hadn’t realized he was still carrying, all these years later, that one day he would wake up and everything would be better.

But he believes what he told Len, he believes in it, every cell of his body.

His life is better now.

The farm, and the goats, and the speedsters, and Len.

Len, returning to his side, by his side, in all the ways that matter.

Yes, Mick Rory would take this life over any other.

And he’s not going to let any goddamn Pilgrim stop him.

An idea hits him square between the eyes.

Mick smiles.

The Pilgrim has a device that slows down time – micro-manipulation, Rip called it – and it lets her slow an attack long enough to escape it; the Legends had planned to attack her all at once, hoping to catch her in a weak moment.

She freezes them all and laughs.

Mick, floating in the Waverider right above her head, fires down with all of the Waverider’s many guns, all at once.

The Pilgrim laughs no more.

There’s a small crater, now, where she once was; Mick has no doubt it will be attributed to the fire that even now burns bright in the building next door.

“Well done, Mr. Rory!” Rip enthuses when he re-enters the ship.

Sara fist-bumps him. Kendra hugs him.

Mick has to glare at Ray and Carter before they try for a hug, too.

He doesn’t do anything when Jax nearly tackles him, though, whooping with pleasure.

He’s a kid. Mick can be magnanimous.

“Where to now?” Kendra asks. “After we return the kids.”

“We have no choice,” Rip says. “We will confront Savage in 2166 at the height of his power.”

“We’re going to finish it,” Carter says. “Once and for all.”

Mick looks at Len. Len looks back.

He nods, confirming.

No changes were made.

Mick hopes Len forgives him.

They go to the future.

They find Savage at the head of his armies. They find his daughter, too, wearing one of Kendra’s old bracelets; Len is able to lift it easily enough, and convert the girl with tales of woe and bad parenting.

Ray fights a giant.

Kendra attacks Savage, the dagger gripped in her palm, only to find that he imprisoned a future version of Carter as his slave.

“I can’t,” she says helplessly. “We have to – we have to save him. Future Carter. We have to free him. This is our future; we will live it, if we don’t stop it.”

Savage goes into the cells.

“This is a bad idea,” Len says.

“No kidding,” Jax says, sighing.

“I agree,” Carter says. He rubs his face. “What do we do?”

He’s asking Mick.

Mick blinks. “Len’s the planner,” he points out.

“But you make the final call,” Carter points out. “You’re the willpower; he’s your brain. Tell him to think, and he will.”

Mick has always thought of himself as Len’s muscle; he’d never thought of Len as his brain.

He likes the sound of that.

“Len,” Mick says.

Len turns to him, and his eyes are warm as ever, without even the slightest trace of rancor.

Mick smiles, and he means it.

“Make us a plan.”

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Len’s mind works on many, many crooked paths. There is no paranoia he will not seriously consider as a possibility; no scheme or conspiracy too absurd to be taken into account, at least momentarily.

Savage’s attempts to escape aboard the ship fail; his manipulations are useless when every man and woman aboard the ship is required to call in to Mick every five minutes for an update on the crossword puzzle they’re all working on jointly. It distracts them, makes them think; makes them too busy for a slippery-tongued snake to drip poison into their ears.

(Ray even asks Savage if he knows a six-letter word for something fragrant. Savage isn't amused.)

Savage does break loose at one point in order to attempt to attack Kendra, though; Len permits it, and positions the future Carter to watch.

The brainwashing snaps and he rushes to the rescue, knocking out Savage with the Carter from their original era only moments behind him.

The two of them look at each other.

“Well,” the future version says wryly. “This is awkward.”

“No kidding,” Carter says.

“Say,” Sara says, “can future you remember this from the opposite point of view?”

“Yes,” future Carter says, making a face. “Let’s not talk about it too much.”

“You’re our ace in the hole,” Len tells him. He jerks a thumb back. “Savage doesn’t realize we have two of you. Shoo.”

Plans A through C assumed the Time Masters were legitimate.

Plan D, however, assumed treachery.

“Plan D it is,” Mick murmurs as the guards drag him away.

Kendra hears him, and smiles.

They confiscate her dagger, which hangs at her belt.

They do not confiscate the two smaller knives, hidden beneath her breasts, which they coated with the gold of the bracelet they found.

They don’t find Len, Sara, or the new Carter, either.

Rip is taken away; Rip is brought back.

He tells them about the Time Masters’ secret weapon, that they called the Oculus, which they used to manipulate the timeline.

“That’s why we lost so often,” Mick says, nodding. “Circumstances were actually conspiring against us.”

“And there’s nothing we can do about it,” Rip concludes.

“We can destroy it,” Ray says. “We have to.”

Savage takes Carter and Kendra away.

Len and Sara slips through the door moments later.

Rip tells them about the Oculus.

“Len,” Mick says.

“I’ve got a plan.”

Mick likes it when Len has a plan.

They fight their way to the Oculus and Ray starts working furiously, the future version of Carter standing guard alongside Sara and Len and Mick.

“Guys,” Ray pants. “There’s a failsafe – someone needs to be here when it blows.”

“Let me,” the future Carter says. His smile is crooked. “We do this? Kendra and I – my past self – we can go forward in time without concern of Savage. And that makes me a timeline fragment, soon to be wiped away by the timeline.”

“Are you sure?” Ray asks.

“That’s the plan,” Len says.

“It was always the plan,” Sara says gently. “That’s why Kendra and Carter are holding off on killing Savage, to buy us time.”

“How will they know the time is right?”

“Oh,” Carter says, “they’ll know.”

They leave him there and retreat to the Waverider.

The explosion behind them throws them head over tail, the Waverider very nearly spinning out of control before catching itself in the time stream.

“We did it,” Rip says, eyes wide with shock. “What do we do now, then?”

“Your family,” Sara says.

“What?”

“Your family. Kendra and Carter – Savage is going after your family, and Kendra and Carter are going to kill him before he can manage.”

“Yes – yes –”

“Won’t that cause us to become timeline fragments?” Ray asks, gnawing at his lip and twisting his fingers together. No wonder; his lovers are in danger.

“No, we have a window of opportunity,” Rip says. “I’ll retain my memories of the prior timeline – we all will, as time travelers – but there won’t be any other effect.”

“The Oculus’ destruction is still sending shockwaves through the timeline,” Gideon says. “If you wish to make a seriously change to the timeline, now is the most optimal time for it.”

“Rip,” Mick says gruffly.

Rip looks at him. His eyes are wet with unshed tears – he is so close to his goal, he can taste it, and the hope of it is ripping him apart.

“I’m gonna guess you know the coordinates,” Mick says.

Rip nods jerkily and enters them.

They arrive just in time to stagger back at another explosion of light, this time gold instead of blue.

“What..?” Rip asks.

“Carter!” Ray shouts, running forward. “Kendra!”

“Ray!” Kendra cries out, smile wide, and embraces him.

The body of Vandal Savage lies at their feet; a shell-shocked woman and child behind them.

They stabbed him together, Mick notes. How romantic.

“Miranda!” Rip shouts, and he’s running forward as well. “Jonas!”

“Can we go inside and skip the teary reunions?” Len mutters in Mick’s ear.

“Please,” Mick says fervently.

When all is said and done, Rip yields up the captaincy of the Waverider, naming Sara as his surprised successor.

“But – but –”

“You’re the best one for the job,” he tells her. “You will be fair and good, and you will take excellent care of the timeline.”

“But Len – Mick –”

“We’re going home,” Mick says. “Sorry. Come by anytime; we have cheese. And goats.”

“Not to be underestimated, the goats,” Len says, nodding.

“We’ll stand with you,” Jax says, patting Sara on the arm. “Don’t worry. We’ve got your back.”

“He’s right,” Carter says, one arm around Kendra and the other around Ray. “We’ll be with you every step of the way. We’ll protect the timeline from those who mean to damage or change it.”

“Ah,” Rip says. “There is one incident that you may want to consider changing…”

A few moments later, Sara exclaims, “What about my sister?! And when exactly were you going to tell me about this?!”

“I’m telling you now!” Rip yelps, holding up his hands in surrender.

“Why I oughta…”

“Mr. Hunter,” Stein interrupts. “I assume by giving up the captaincy, you do not intend to stay?”

“I’ll stay for six months,” Rip says, nodding. “To teach you everything you need to know: about the ship, about the timeline. Miranda,” he takes her hand, “will help; she’s the finest Time Master trainee the academy has ever known, before she gave up her career for mine.”

Miranda smiles. “And don’t you forget it.”

“After that,” Rip says, “we would like to be dropped off in the past, to make a home for ourselves there.”

Len groans.

Everyone looks at him.

“You want to go back to the Wild West,” Len guesses. “And Jonah Hex. Jonah, Jonas – I think I’m seeing a theme.”

Rip goes red.

Miranda smirks. “I’m looking forward to meeting him at last,” she says. “I’ve heard so very much about him.”

Mick is the first to start laughing.

The rest of the team joins in quickly enough.

“We’ll have the Hunters’ ship, which they left behind back then,” Rip says to Sara, trying desperately to keep a straight face amid all the sniggering. “I’ll give you the address code; you’ll be able to call us any time.”

“Good to know, Rip,” she says, wiping her eyes and patting his hand. “Good to know.”

“Enough of this,” Len says, “Gideon – set course for 2016. Take us home.”

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Haircut!” Mick roars. “Get off the goddamn table!”

Ray jumps a little. “But,” he says, blinking, “I’m not on the table…?”

“Not you,” Len says. He nods at the yearling goat that’s climbing its determined way up one of the picnic tables, its eyes fixed on a bowl of salad that looks like the one Kendra brought. The goat has a giant dark tuft of hair on its head, right between the two horns, long and wavy, almost like it’s been styled; it’s quite absurd looking. “That Haircut.”

Ray looks ridiculously pleased. “You named one after me!”

“He likes to run into walls for no reason,” Mick says dryly. “Seemed like it fit.”

“Do I have one?” Sara asks, hard at work setting up the grill. She got Mick a brand new lighter from 2140 as a present; she promises him it’s worth every second.

“Sure,” Mick says. “Blondie.” He points out an all-white goat – not a true albino, just pale – that’s currently skipping through the crowd, sniffing everyone new.

“Cute,” Laurel says, and crouches down to offer that one a handful of corn from the bags Mick handed out to everyone when they arrived. “Very cute. Heeeere, Blondie. Come to Auntie Laurel. I’m gonna tie dumb ribbons in your hair, yes I am.”

“Better Blondie than me,” Sara says. “She used to, I swear.”

“Big sister privileges,” Laurel says primly, but she’s grinning. “I brought a camera. I want a picture of you and your goat – matching ribbons, of course.”

Sara groans theatrically.

“What about us?” Carter asks, amused. “Hawk one and two?”

Mick jerks his thumb at the male and female goat sitting calmly on the porch, nuzzling each other. They’re yearlings; they should be jumping around like apes, but they had old souls from the start. “Tobias and Marahute.”

“Marahute’s an eagle, Mick,” Kendra says, though he can tell from the pleased smile on her face that she’s not upset at all. Quite the contrary.

“Grey and Lighter are stuffing their faces in the yard,” Mick says to the two members of Firestorm before they even ask.

“Did I get one?” Rip asks, looking around warily for the murder twins, as Len insists on continuing to call the geese. They’d bitten Rip three times already; he couldn’t seem to stop annoying them even after they’d warily permitted the remaining guests onto the property.

“Nope,” Mick says cheerfully. “I did name one Gideon, though; you can claim half ownership of that one.”

“I’ll take it,” he says, and flees when he sees Spite waddling purposefully towards him.

(Mick will eventually tell him about Time Dad, the yard's grumpiest old matron goat. But not yet.)

He hears Len behind him, a breath of intentional warning – Len considerate as always – before Len nudges Mick’s hip with his own and leans his head against Mick’s shoulder, an arm slithering around Mick's waist to rest lightly on his side. “Can we kick ‘em out now?” he whines playfully. “There’s too many of ‘em. I hate people.”

Mick snorts. “It’s the Fourth of July,” he says. “You can be social for a bit longer. Go play with the Flash.”

“He’s with Zipper,” Len says dismissively. “Cisco and Caitlin just found Smarts and Chills, by the way; they’re too busy cooing to be insulted. Getting Cashmere goats was a stroke of genius, by the way – people can’t stop petting them.”

Mick grins. Plan successful.

“Guess you’ll have to put up with staying with me,” he tells Len, turning to face his partner.

Len smiles, a little crooked smile, the truest smile he has for all of its seeming duplicity. “Yeah,” he says. “Guess I will.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Slow down, slow down,” Len says into the communication device Cisco had invented for more regular communication. “What’s this about an evil speedster?”

Mick’s not going to look up from where he’s planning next season’s cheese rotations with Mab.

He will not.

“And why was Stein pretending to be a Nazi musician again?”

Nope. No way. Not getting involved.

“A compass. A compass that points the direction to what?”

Mick’s retired. He has a good life. A quiet life. And that’s how he likes it.

“The spear of what now? The Spear of Destiny? I think I saw an Indiana Jones movie with that.”

Willpower, Mick. Willpower.

“And at what point in this story does Ray blow up his suit?”

Okay, fuck it.

Mick throws down his pencil.

Mab doesn’t even look up. She’s made of steel.

“Lenny,” he roars.

“Hold on,” Len says into the speaker. “Yeah, Mick?”

“Have they asked Barry about the speedster yet? Or Cisco? He might be able to vibe them something.”

“Good point. I’ll ask.”

A few seconds go by.

“They say they knew we would be helpful and they promise to tell us if their fuck-ups turn us all into goats,” Len reports.

Mick shakes his head and goes back to Mab.

Len wanders over after a few minutes. “Sounds like they’re doing well,” he says cheerfully. He doesn’t seem inclined to suggest that they should join the hunt for whatever thing the Legends are looking for now, which – thank god. Looks like Barry’s idea about setting Len up as Central City’s kingpin with a meta army in an attempt to ferret out real threats (and go on the occasional heist) has been sufficient to keep him busy.

Though Mick’s starting to worry about those letters they’ve been getting in the mail the last few weeks, asking Len to join some sort of ‘Legion of Doom’…

“The world hasn’t ended yet,” he finally says. “Now c’mon, help us name the new cheese.”

“How’d it get made?”

“All you need to know is that it’ll have a slight asparagus flavor,” Mab says. “Very clean, very bright.”

Len blinks and then a great big dumb grin comes over his face slowly, like it’s involuntary.

“What?” Mick says suspiciously.

“Lady and criminal,” Len says. “I give you: the Spear of Destiny.”

“No,” Mick says.

“Actually…” Mab says.

(The Legends pick up twelve pounds of the Spear when they come visiting during the alien invasion, laughing the whole time.)

#dccoldwave #mick rory #leonard snart #Kendra saunders #sara lance #carter hall #ray palmer #rip hunter #my fic

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haleths · 8 years ago

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I was tagged by @elektra-natchos ❤️❤️❤️ Thank you my dear, sorry this took so bloody long, I’m hopeless I know!! (Some of your answers were absolutely priceless btw)

RULES: Answer all the questions, add one of your own and tag as many people as there are questions I’ll tag as many as I like thanks

1. Coke or pepsi? Neither tbh cause I’m a complete weirdo who hates fizzy drinks

2. Disney or dreamworks? Mmmm.....ok if we’re purely talking animated films I’ll say Disney, but if we’re counting live action as well then its got to be Dreamworks

3. Coffee or tea? Tea pretty much flows in my veins at this point

4. Books or movies? Both

5. Windows or mac? Windows

6. DC or marvel? DC has better villains for sure but Marvel overall

7. Xbox or playstation? Xbox

8. Dragon age or mass effect? I’m ashamed to say I’ve never played either. But from my limited knowledge of them both, Dragon Age seems more up my alley

9. Night owl or early riser? Naturally I fall somewhere in the middle, but I can be either if for example I have very early/late shifts at work

10. Cards or chess? Cards

11. Chocolate or vanilla? CHOCOLATE

12. Vans or converse? Converse were all I wore as a child

13. Lavellan, Trevelyan, Cadash or Adaar? Again not played Dragon Age sorry!

14. Fluff or angst? Both, both is good

15. Beach or forest? I’d uproot my home and live out the rest of my days in a treehouse in an instant if that were socially acceptable

16. Dogs or cats? I don’t have a preference

17. Clear skies or rain? Clear skies because yes I do love the colour of the sky

18. Cooking or eating out? Cooking. I love eating out but it wouldn’t be special if I did it all the time. Plus I really enjoy cooking

19. Spicy food or mild food? Spicy. My food has to actually taste like something!

20. Halloween/samhain or solstice/yule/christmas? It's Christmastime, there's no need to be afraid......

21. Would you rather forever be a little too cold or a little too hot? I’m always a little too cold now anyway!

22. If you could have a superpower, what would it be? Flight

23. Animation or live action? Hmmm tricky.... live action

24. Paragon or renegade? Paragon. I’m like lawful good

25. Baths or showers? Showers, wtf would I want to sit in my own dirty water??

26. Team cap or team ironman? Team cap

27. Fantasy or sci-fi? Bitch how dare you make me chose, I ain’t doing it!!

28. Do you have three or four favourite quotes, if so, what are they? “Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory” - Tolkien

“Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of someone else” - Judy Garland

“I don’t want to survive, I WANT TO LIVE!” - Captain B. McCrea (WALL-E)

29. Youtube or netflix? Netflix, even though I don’t have it. I’d send all day watching series/films if I could

30. Harry potter or percy jackson? Harry Potter no contest

31. When do you feel accomplished? Ticking off everything on my to do list, cleaning, finally facing that task I’ve been avoiding for months....

32. Star wars or star trek? Star Wars

33. Paperback or hardback books? Either, as long as I have the actual book I don’t care. You can get Kindles THE HELL away from me

34. Horror or rom-com? I’m pathetic and get scared by practically anything so I’ll always go for rom-com but its got to be good

35. TV shows or movies? Again don’t you dare make me pick

36. Favourite animal? RED PANDAS YAASSSS

37. Favourite genre of music? This does change on a weekly basis but currently alternative/new wave 80s.

38. Least favourite book? I don’t read bad books

39. Favourite season? They all have their merits

40. Song that’s currently stuck in your head? Just Like Heaven - The Cure

41. What kind of pyjama’s do you wear? Pj bottoms and an old tshirt

42. How many existential crises do you have on an average day? Not too many I’m pleased to say. I’m definitely doing better than I was 2 months ago

43. If you can only choose one song to be played at your funeral, what would it be? Always look on the bright side of life ;)

44. Favourite theme song to a TV show? Doctor Who, you can’t beat it

45. Harry potter movies or books? Books

46. You can make your OTP become canon but you’ll forget that tumblr exists. will you do it? Nah let me wallow in the frustration and angst a bit longer

47. Do you play an instrument and if so, what is it? I’m ok on guitar but I’ve not played in months

48. What is the worst way to die? Wtf kind of question is this?! Idk drowning?? Or suffocating maybe?? No actually starvation would be horrible af

49. If you could be entirely invisible for a day, what would you do? Probs sneak into loads of high security buildings. I wouldn’t actually do anything or steal stuff, I just want to see what goes on

50. If you could have personally witnessed anything in history what would it be? I’m sure I’ll think of a better one later but the one that just popped into my head was man landing on the mood. That’d be amazing to witness

51. If you could understand animals but you could never understand humans again, would you? Nope

52. What is your most favourite album currently? This might not count because its not a real album but I’ve been listening to the Best of Depeche Mode Vol. 1 on repeat for a week now

53. What is your favourite TV show character? Just been rewatching Blackadder so its got to be Flashheart of course WOOF WOOF

54. What is something you were obsessed with as a child? Playmobil. My collection was and is HUGE, and would probably be worth a fortune if I could ever bare to sell it

55. Do you have any tattoos/piercings and if not would you like any? No sorry I don't have any and I’m not particularly fussed about getting any in the future

56. Biggest pet peeves? Liars, hypocrites, people who walk slow, people who think their opinion is fact, I could go on......

And I tag: @jupitergrunge, @aredhels, @feanarofinwion and @lady-clairmont but only if you want to, I appreciate there are a HELL of a lot of questions

#tag game

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made-from-galaxies · 5 years ago

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Here’s Why Black Widow Didn’t Get a Memorial at the End of ‘Avengers: Endgame’

(Major spoilers ahead for “Avengers: Endgame” and the whole situation with Black Widow aka Natasha Romanoff, but you probably already knew that given the headline)

The scenes in “Avengers: Endgame” that take place after the film’s climax are all about Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.) and Steve Rogers (Chris Evans), first with the big funeral for Iron Man after he died to defeat Thanos and his army, and then with Captain America’s big retirement scene to close the whole thing out. They were the two main characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so fine, whatever. But it still irks me that Natasha Romanoff (Scarlett Johansson) got only the barest of mentions after she sacrificed herself in the second act.

If she hadn’t killed herself on Vormir so that Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner) could return to the present with the Soul Stone, then they wouldn’t have been able to save all those people Thanos snapped, and then Tony Stark’s snap to wipe out all of Thanos’s forces wouldn’t have been possible. Her sacrifice mattered just as much as Tony’s did.

Also Read: ‘Avengers: Endgame’ – That Last Scene Makes No Sense

But when we get to the end of the movie, we get a big memorial for Iron Man with a huge number of famous heroes showing up to pay their respects, while Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch (Elizabeth Olsen) hang out in the corner having their own private mourning ceremony for Natasha and Vision, who apparently nobody other than them — and Bruce Banner (Mark Ruffalo), I guess — cared about.

It would have been a great moment to elevate a character who always operated from the shadows, never getting the acclaim that Tony always received. The one time Black Widow stepped into the spotlight was at the end of “Captain America: The Winter Soldier,” when a US Senate committee threatened to put her on trial. The people of the MCU finally had a chance to give Natasha the respect she was due, and they just didn’t.

On the commentary track on the home video release of “Avengers: Endgame,” co-director Joe Russo addressed this concern, and blamed next year’s “Black Widow” movie for the lack of a memorial for Natasha.

Also Read: ‘Avengers: Endgame’ – Who Is That Random Kid At the End of the Movie?

“People have asked why Natasha didn’t get the same amount of screen time post-death as Tony did,” Joe Russo said. “Well, Tony does not have another movie. Tony is done. And Natasha has another film. And Marvel Universe obviously does not have to move forward linearly anymore. But that character still has more screen time coming.”

So there’s your answer — Natasha Romanoff didn’t get a big memorial in “Endgame” because of the prequel movie coming out next May, whereas Tony Stark is not gonna be in the MCU again for the foreseeable future. Though they didn’t mention Vision specifically, there’s probably a similar reason for the lack of love for him after he died in “Infinity War,” since he’ll be back somehow in the “WandaVision” Disney+ show in 2021.

There is an interesting sentence in that answer, though, that caused a big exclamation point to pop up over my head, though: “And Marvel Universe obviously does not have to move forward linearly anymore.” Since the MCU has done multiple prequel movies that didn’t involve time travel, including the first “Captain America” movie that was the fourth film overall in this franchise, it seems incorrect to say that the MCU ever “had to” move forward linearly.

Also Read: ‘Avengers: Endgame’ – What Happened With Loki and the Tesseract?

To me, this implies that the “Black Widow” movie will be more than just another prequel like “Captain America: The First Avenger” or “Captain Marvel,” which took us to the past to set up heroes that would have an impact on the present. To me, the implication is something I have long suspected about “Black Widow”: that it will involve characters from the MCU’s post-“Endgame” present somehow.

But Marvel still has yet to confirm anything along those lines about that film. When they presented footage from the film at Comic-Con a couple weeks ago there was no indication that it would be anything other than a straight prequel — one that likely will set up a new player for future movies, like probably Florence Pugh’s Yelena.

We’ve got a while to wait before we find anything out about what the “Black Widow” movie really has in store for us. It’s nine months until the movie comes out, and it’ll probably be December at the earliest before we get a proper trailer. So sit tight.

All 58 Marvel Movies Ranked, Including ‘Spider-Man: Far From Home’

It’s hard to believe — and sad, too, if you like these movies — that “Spider-Man: Far From Home” is the last Marvel movie of the year. There’s no more on the calendar until Fox’s “The New Mutants” early next year, and given how many times that one has been delayed it may not be safe to assume it actually will be the next Marvel movie.

Anyway, the point is just we’re about to get into an extended hiatus. No more MCU movies, no non-MCU Marvel movies the rest of 2019. We’re getting a bit of a break from comic book movies, with only DC’s “Joker” origin movie left.

58. “Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer”

Just a nightmare. A total nightmare. There have been a number of bad superhero movies, but from the talking gas cloud the filmmakers cast as Galactus to Jessica Alba‘s dye job, this one transcends bad.

57. “X-Men Origins: Wolverine”

A totally chaotic stir fry of nonsense that tells the story of how Wolverine got his claws. Features an early version of Deadpool (also played by Ryan Reynolds) whose mouth is stapled shut, which should tell you all you need to know about it.

56. “Elektra”

That five minutes when they tried to turn Jennifer Garner into an action star went about as well as it should have.

55. “X-Men: The Last Stand”

Just a total mess, incoherent from the word “go.” After losing director of the first two X-Men films Brian Singer to the first Superman reboot attempt, replacement Matthew Vaughn gave way to eventual director Brett Ratner, who might have killed off the superhero genre entirely were “Spider-Man” not blowing up the box office.

54. “Fantastic Four” (2015)

There could maybe have been a good movie in here somewhere — the cast (Michael B Jordan, Miles Teller, Kate Mara) certainly warranted one. But this Frankenstein of a film is a behind-the-scenes horror story, and you can see it in the totally disjointed final product.

53. “Daredevil”

This was basically “Early-2000s: The Movie,” with Ben Affleck, Jennifer Garner, Colin Farrell and Michael Clark Duncan as the main players. The cherry on top of this turd sundae was that damn Evanescence song.

52. “Fantastic Four” (2005)

Tim Story‘s first “Fantastic Four” is just sort of there, challenging you to remember it exists. With Chris Evans, who played the Human Torch here, going on to embody Captain America in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, that gets tougher every year.

51. “The Punisher” (2004)

This is the Punisher as a straight revenge thriller, and it’s not bad. Thomas Jane performs admirably, but the whole thing is missing that extra something that would have elevated it beyond standard genre fare. Setting it in Tampa didn’t help.

50. “Spider-Man 3”

Maybe the bad outweighs the good here, but Emo Peter Parker’s dance number remains one of the greatest single moments in any comic book movie, sorry, haters.

49. “Howard the Duck”

A notorious flop at the box office and, yeah, it’s not exactly “good.” But now, 30 years removed from its premiere, “Howard the Duck” is pretty fun as a relic of the ’80s.

48. “The Punisher” (1989)

Dolph Lundgren and Louis Gossett Jr. star in a low-rent ’80s grunge C-level classic. This one’s all novelty value.

47. “Ghost Rider”

For a movie starring Nic Cage about a dude who rides a Harley and turns into a flaming skeleton, this is a surprisingly mundane movie.

46. “The Amazing Spider-Man”

We may never figure out what went wrong with Marc Webb‘s Spider-Man duology, but his choice of Andrew Garfield to play Peter Parker is still brilliant. It just sucks that this movie doesn’t really make any sense.

45. “X-Men”

The beginning of the current wave of theatrical superhero movies, “X-Men” was kind of a cheapie and it showed. Novel at the time, now it just comes off as unremarkable mid-budget action fare as Fox was merely sticking its toe in the superhero waters. Timid.

44. “The Incredible Hulk”

It’s sometimes hard to remember that this one counts as part of the MCU, since it placed Ed Norton in the Dr. Banner role since inhabited by Mark Ruffalo in the “Avengers” films. It’s also hard to remember because it’s generally not memorable.

43. “Thor”

The fantasy Marvel movie is directed by Kenneth Branagh, who covers the whole movie in canted angle shots and theatrical stylings. It’s pretty boring, also, but at least it looks cool.

42. “The Amazing Spider-Man 2”

More of the same impossible-to-follow hack-n’-slash plotting from the previous movie, offset by Andrew Garfield continuing to be awesome and Jamie Foxx going way over the top as the big bad.

41. “Thor: The Dark World”

“The Dark World,” in contrast to the first “Thor” movie, is certainly not boring. If anything, it suffers the opposite problem, going so hard and fast that it loses substance.

40. “Blade: Trinity”

Starring a pre-Deadpool Ryan Reynolds basically playing a vampire-slaying Deadpool, throwing out one-liners like his mama’s life depended on it, this may not a “good” movie, but it sure is fun.

39. “X2: X-Men United”

A big step up from the first “X-Men” both in production values and quality, it still lacks much in the way of energy. Which is inexcusable when you’ve got Alan Cumming as the teleporting mutant Nightcrawler all over your movie.

38. “Spider-Man”

Sam Raimi truly assembled the prototypical superhero movie with this first entry in the “Spider-Man” franchise, in 2002. Like “X-Men” before it, “Spider-Man” is a bit underwhelming today, but unlike “X-Men” it was proud of its nerd roots.

37. “X-Men: Apocalypse”

Could have been a bizarre ironic summer classic if it were structured like a real movie and had any character development whatsoever. Instead it’s just a shot of visual adrenaline that I’ll probably want to revisit at some point — but not when I’m sober

36. “Avengers: Age of Ultron”

“Ultron” is frustrating for what it lacks — chiefly the feeling that it’s advancing the overall story arc of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But as with the first “Avengers” movie its weaknesses are overcome by great character work.

35. “The Avengers”

The story is a total mess, relying heavily on moviegoers’ memories of previous MCU films (if you didn’t remember or know coming in what the Tesseract was, hoo boy). But the novelty of the Marvel’s first big superhero team-up was irresistible, and director Joss Whedon balanced his ensemble expertly, giving everyone plenty to do so none of them ever fades into the background.

34. “Blade”

Pure B-movie trash, which is fine because that’s precisely what it aims for: bloody, crass, awesome. Blade, by the way, remains the only black comic book character besides Shaquille O’Neal‘s “Steel” to get his/her own movie, though Marvel’s “Black Panther” is slated for a 2018 release.

33. “Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance”

For the sequel, they tapped the “Crank” director duo known as Neveldine/Taylor. It was an inspired choice, because “Spirit of Vengeance” was exactly as nutty as you’d hope a PG-13 comic book movie would be. Shame that it was apparently stressful enough to break up the tandem of Mark Neveldine and Brian Taylor.

32. “Captain America: The First Avenger”

A lot of folks like to complain that all superhero movies are the same. But this was actually a pretty good World War II movie, too.

31. “Guardians of the Galaxy”

Plot-wise, it never really adds up to anything, but the strength of the cast and the bizarre world they explore more than make up for it.

30. “Blade 2”

Beloved nerd Guillermo del Toro took over for this one and ramped everything up to 11. More vampires, more blood, more people getting sliced up — and of course baddies whose jaws can split open and swallow a person’s head whole.

29. “Big Hero 6”

Disney Animation Studios made a Marvel movie, and it’s really sweet. Sure, it’s the kiddie version of Marvel, but that doesn’t prevent it from being a wholly satisfying experience.

28. “Captain Marvel”

It’s fine, but “Captain Marvel” feels like a movie from before Marvel Studios really hit its stride in Phase 3 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Right now it’s a movie that seems very much out of place.

27. “Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2”

An improvement on the first film, and an absolute delight from moment to moment — but it never quite coalesces into a coherent whole because so many subplots distract from the core story and rob it of its emotional impact. Would be a top 5 comic book movie if it had just reigned in the plot.

26. “Iron Man”

It was Robert Downey Jr.‘s reemergence on the big screen, and he’s flawless in this origin story that takes Tony Stark from billionaire playboy weapons manufacturer to billionaire playboy other-things manufacturer.

25. “Avengers: Endgame”

This movie is, frustratingly, far from perfect. In fact, it’s kind of a huge mess. But it’s also awesome and thrilling and hilarious and contains some individual moments that are perfect. I wish it was better, but with everything required of a movie that exists to wrap up 21 movies’ worth of story arcs, I’m glad it’s as good as it is.

24. “Hulk”

In 2003 the modern wave of superhero movies was still in its infancy, and Ang Lee — still the best filmmaker to do a comic book movie — got experimental with “Hulk.” And what he made was an incredible melodrama with visual stylings meant to ape comic book panels. It didn’t sit well with audiences, but “Hulk” remains one of the most compelling and interesting Marvel movies to date.

23. “The Wolverine”

This was, like, just a legitimately enjoyable melodramatic action movie. Sure, it turns into a video game boss battle by the end, but for most of its running time it’s just an actual movie.

22. “Punisher: War Zone”

Whereas the previous “Punisher” movie was melodramatic and contemplative, this one is just murderous. And it’s awesome.

21. “Venom”

How can anybody resist the pull of Tom Hardy doing comedy? This movie knows exactly what it’s trying to be, and what it’s trying to be is dumb and fun and nothing else. And it is extremely fun.

20. “X-Men: Days of Future Past”

Its time travel logic is a bit iffy, but “Days of Future Past” is still tremendously entertaining because, while epic, it’s not overly serious. As “Back to the Future” taught us long ago, you can get away with a lot of logical leaps if you strike the right tone.

18. “Deadpool”

In the angsty and angry times we live in, “Deadpool” is perfect. Aggressively violent and flippantly meanspirited, it’s the exact emotional release we needed.

17. “X-Men: Dark Phoenix”

The main series “X-Men” movies have never achieved any sort of greatness, but at least “Dark Phoenix” ends the whole thing with one of the best efforts of the bunch. And that sequence on the train in the third act is easily the best action sequence of these movies.

16. “Spider-Man: Far From Home”

It’s frustrating that it doesn’t really deal with the immense fallout from “Avengers: Endgame,” but it’s still as visually creative as any movie in the MCU, and Jake Gyllenhaal’s Mysterio is an all-timer of a villain. Dude goes all the way out in this.

15. “X-Men: First Class”

The first “X-Men” movie that could be described as “fun.” It’s basically two movies crammed into one, story-wise, but director Matthew Vaughn‘s touch is so breezy and enjoyable that it totally works anyway, thanks in large part to a brilliant cast that includes Michael Fassbender, Jennifer Lawrence and James McAvoy.

14. “Spider-Man: Homecoming”

Not quite the best “Spider-Man” movie, but still an absolute delight, with a cast full of scene stealers. Michael Keaton as the Vulture makes for one of the best Marvel villains ever.

13. “Deadpool 2”

While you may get whiplash from the “Deadpool” sequel’s occasional very serious and emo scenes, the rest of the movie is thoroughly delightful, somehow managing to be even funnier — and more hilariously violent — than the original.

12. “Ant-Man”

“Ant-Man” represented a first for the MCU by being a straight-up comedy. And it’s a very good one, with a cast that’s perfectly suited for it. Aside from Paul Rudd who plays Ant-Man himself, Michael Pena is the true standout as Scott Lang’s best friend and former cellmate.

11. “Ant-Man and the Wasp”

It’s ever so slightly frustrating that this one doesn’t fully integrate into the “Infinity War” situation, but even so it’s thoroughly a delight. Evangeline Lilly is so good at the Wasp that I’m retroactively irritated that she didn’t don the suit in the previous “Ant-Man” movie.

10. “Doctor Strange”

If it weren’t hamstrung with all the requisite elements of an origin story, “Doctor Strange” might have been the best Marvel movie ever. That’s the power of the astonishing visual imagination on display here. People love to talk about the nebulous concept of capturing some long lost childlike sense of wonder though the magic of cinema — “Doctor Strange” is one of the only movies I’ve watched as an adult that really accomplishes that.

9. “Spider-Man 2”

This is a movie that fully understands its main character and taps into what made him such a captivating figure for so long. Yeah, Peter Parker’s a superhero, but he’s also a college kid working a minimum wage job to make rent while also taking university physics classes. Peter buckles under the pressure, something we can all relate to.

8. “Iron Man 3”

As far as I’m concerned this is the “Iron Man” movie. Somehow, Shane Black was able to infiltrate the MCU and make a legitimate Shane Black movie with all the wit and raw humanity you’d expect from him. It carries exactly the sort of authorial identity we should want all these movies to have.

7. “Thor: Ragnarok”

A thorough delight. This might be the most fun we had at the movies in all of 2017, and so we can’t help but love it.

6. “Captain America: Civil War”

Multiply the two previous best Marvel movies by one another and you get “Civil War.” It packs the sort of emotional payoff all the disconnected Marvel movies can’t really provide. And as an action film it’s easily the best of the superhero genre.

5. “Avengers: Infinity War”

You could certainly make the argument that “Infinity War” does not really hold up on as a complete movie on its own, because it kinda begins with the second act. But I don’t care. The culmination of this ten-year shared universe experiment should stand on the shoulders of the movies that came before it. The fact that it packs such a profound emotional punch, however, is what really makes it work.

4. “Black Panther”

It’s held back a little by being saddled with standard “origin movie” issues — introducing audiences to the world of Wakanda isn’t a quick and easy task, and it could use an extra 15-20 minutes to flesh out the supporting characters — but still manages to be the most substantial superhero movie ever. It’s kind of amazing that Disney let writer/director Ryan Coogler make this overt a political statement — it’s the most openly political mega-budget movie I’ve ever seen . Also, while I’m listing superlatives: Michael B Jordan delivers the best performance ever in a superhero movie. Good lord.

3. “Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse”

The best superhero movies, and movies in general, are the ones that are truly most human. And “Spider-Verse,” despite being animated, despite the wacky cast of Spider-People, despite the outlandish premise, is as real as movies get.

2. “Logan”

James Mangold’s small-scale western is a game changer for the entire superhero genre, daring to defy pretty much standard by which you expect these movies to operate. It’s just a great movie by any normal standard. Where “Civil War” elevated the genre, “Logan” opts instead to be something else entirely and we’re all the better for it.

1. “Captain America: The Winter Soldier”

The Russo brothers, who made their entrance to the MCU directing “Winter Soldier” before taking the reigns on “Civil War” and, eventually, 2018’s “Avengers: Infinity War,” really impressed with “Winter Soldier.” It’s a classic spy thriller with a superhero twist. And Robert Redford as the bad guy is a really nice touch.

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Decades of big screen Marvel adaptations demand a long, ranked list. This is that list

Source: https://opengeekhouse.com.br/2019/08/10/heres-why-black-widow-didnt-get-a-memorial-at-the-end-of-avengers-endgame/

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