#should wwx never have given jc his core?

[lgbtlunaverse]

Hi! I know where that post is cause I wrote it. And as a matter of fact this post started out as an INTRO to that post that then got too long and I decided to make into its own post. It's funny that my metas are starting to form this sort of interconnected web of interpretation and they obviously fit together even when I don't explicitly reference myself.

I feel like too often people frame Nie Mingjue's issues as ignorance borne from safety. Like, they think that because of his privilege as a sect leader he doesn't know what it's like to be in danger and forced to make hard choices to survive. And I disagree. Strongly.

First of all, Nie Mingjue is very familiar with death not only from war but from. You know. Actively dying since the age of fourteen. Let us not forget Nie Mingjue is dead! Super dead! And maybe he didn't die the exact way he expected to but he did, absolutely, know he was going to die. To act like Nie Mingjue is unfamiliar with the scenario of "do something you find morally reprehensible or die" is to ignore that he has been living that exact scenario and chose death.

Nie Mingjue knows death is a risk for someone like Jin guangyao, in fact he explicitly acknowledges it even in his worst moments like the stairs in chapter 49. Had his issue been ignorance, then he would've responded to Jin Guangyao saying that he's in danger and has to sacrifice others for his own safety with "No you aren't you'll be fine." But he doesn't. He accepts the fact that jgy is in danger with no qualms and says: then you should die.

That's not him betraying his values, those are his values. He is, essentially, pro-suicide. Jgy is like hey I have a moral dilemma what should I do and nmj straight up goes "Kill yourself" and earlier that same chapter when he was faced with a moral dilemma he went "I'm gonna kill myself." He believes the solution to moral dilemmas is suicide! He is extremely consistent about this! When it's pointed out to him that it would have been dangerous for Wen Qing to oppose Wen Ruohan it doesn't phase him because he thinks putting yourself at risk to do the right thing is the only moral choice. The idea that he can only hold this belief because he is himself somehow not in danger, again, requires you to ignore that he is dying the whole time. And it doesn't deter him. He is the idea of self-sacrifice as a moral good taken to its absolute logical extreme. Someone who is ready to die and demands the same from everyone else.

It makes him a very fun case study for fandom, because a lot of fandom spaces also tend to revere self-sacrifice as the ultimate good, and yet we get very uncomfortable when someone starts demanding it of characters we love. Like woah, hold on, that's a bit too far isn't it? Only we the audience get to do that!

[mxtxfanatic]

JC better be fucking glad that the whole "i was given a boon from BSSR b/c of my mom" thing was just a lie made up for the Golden Core transfer. that could have been the last fucking thing WWX has from his mother and he just has zero qualms about taking it. both he and his mother truly believe WWX owes them all that he has, including his life, his gratitude, and the memories of the parents he barely remembers.

JC screams "you're the reason my parents and sister are gone!". yeah? well your mom has been actively taking away and destroying the memory of WWX's parents and you just proved that you'd also do the same if given the opportunity.

an actual brother (blood or not) would show concern about what WWX was offering to sacrifice. JC did not, not even years later.

Jiang Cheng lives his life by what he believes others owe him, not what he actually owes others. Even when he knows he owes someone else, he will not repay it if he sees the debt as a "hardship."

Wei WuXian finally lost his temper, “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about?! Take it back—don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang’s and Madam Yu’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?!” Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

—Chapt. 73: Recklessness, exr

[Jiang Cheng] could manage to tolerate others, but definitely not Wen Ning, the Wen-dog who put his hand through Jin ZiXuan’s heart and ended both his sister’s happiness and her life. Just a look, and he felt the urge to kill him right there. How dare he step foot on the earth of Lotus Pier—he really was looking for his death!

—Chapt. 89: Loyalty, exr

With a shove, Jiang Cheng pushed aside the panicking Jin Ling who was supporting his side. Though he was already losing blood, blood still rushed to his head in his anger, making his face cycle through shades of white and red. He spat, “What gives you the right? Wei WuXian, what gives you the fucking right?” From behind Lan WangJI, Wei WuXian said stiffly, “What right?” Jiang Cheng replied, “How much has my family given for you? I’m his son. I’m the heir of the Yunmeng Jiang Sect. But all those years, I was never enough next to you. Their love, their dedication, even their life! The lives of my father, mother, older sister, and even Jin ZiXuan! Because of you, all that’s left now is an orphaned Jin Ling!” ... “And then look what happened? You went to shelter some outsider, haha! From the Wen Sect, of all people. How many years did you eat their food and drink their water?! You betrayed us in an instant without any hesitation! What do you think my family is to you?! Endless good deeds, you’ve done them all, whilst every fuck-up was always because you had no choice! You ‘had no choice’! What difficulties can’t you explain?! What hardship must you hide?! Hardship?! You don’t tell me anything, you treat me like a moron!!! “How much do you owe my family? Shouldn’t I hate you?! Couldn’t I hate you?! What gives you the right to suddenly make me feel like I should be the one that’s sorry?! What gives you the right to make me feel like some fucking clown after all these years?! What the hell am I?! Do I only deserve to be blinded by your glory, by your light?! Shouldn’t I hate you?!”

—Chapt. 103: A Hatred for a Life Part 6, boat-full-of-lotus-pods

Jiang Cheng, on the other hand, looked about ready to lose his mind on the spot. He said, “You? You?!” The force of the punch had been too powerful. Not only did it go right through Wen Ning’s chest, the shock of it also shattered part of his vocal chords. Unable to form a single word, he fell towards the ground. ... Wei WuXian and Lan WangJi went to the corner. Wen Ning was still half-collapsed onto Jiang Cheng and Jin Ling in an awkward position. Wei WuXian laid him flat on the ground. After studying the dark hole on his chest, he fretted, “Look at you......What should I use to fill this now?” Wen Ning asked, “Young Master, is it serious......?” Wei WuXian said, “It’s not serious. You don’t need the organs here anyways. But it looks bad.” Wen Ning replied, “It’s not like I asked to look good......” Jiang Cheng was silent.

—Chapts. 107-108: Concealment Parts 1 & 2, boat-full-of-lotus-pods

[fandomspacenqueue]

Stumbled across a post today about WWX's relationship with WN in relation with LWJ and JC, and how while LWJ respects WN and his place in WWX's life, JC and WN only hate each other because of JZX and JYL's deaths and the golden core transfer.

I'm sorry, what?

I'm not even going to get into JZX's death and WN's culpability (or really, lack thereof) since that's a whole other argument, but WN had absolutely nothing to do with JYL's death? He wasn't even there? And don't even try to say that JYL's death is a direct consequence of Qiongqi Path because it wasn't, given that 1) JYL should never have been at Nightless City in the first place, 2) Nightless City would never have happened if, you know, JGS had kept his word about leaving WWX and the rest of the Wen Remnants alone once WQ and WN gave themselves up, and 3) JYL's death happened because SHE consciously chose to sacrifice herself for WWX, stop taking away her agency.

And more importantly, no mention of how JC led the siege that killed every single member of WN's family except for A-Yuan, whose survival JC had nothing to do with? Just casually leaving out the single biggest reason WN would have to hate JC as if JC has more "right" to hate WN when it's actually so far in the other direction it's not even funny. I swear, even when this fandom isn't actively trying to woobify the poor grape manbaby, they still manage to imply just that.

Ugh.

[acequinz]

I think getting upset at Wen Ning yelling at Jiang Cheng is very stupid too.

Cause someone needed to tell Jiang Cheng about it and I am lowkey glad it was Wen Ning.

I know JC didn't know they were the reason he got a golden core but he had many other reasons to show at least Wen Ning some kindness and he never did after he risked himself to get the bodies and JC himself out of lotus pier safely.

If there was ever anyone who was closer to Jiang Cheng in terms of their life it was Wen Ning.

- grew up in an abusive household where he was constantly berated/beaten with a super talented older sibling who always took on every burden even if he wanted to share it with her. (Jiang Cheng still did have it better because he wasn't chronically ill and an heir)

- was saved by Wei Wuxian in a way that did take away from his autonomy.

- lost his sister while defending WWX.

- had his entire sect killed and burned down. (If he didn't care for the wens as a whole he did care for dafan wens and then the burial mounds people)

- are primarily only called by their given names and rarely ever their courtesy names.

And at the end of the day Wen Ning still chose kindness over pain. Instead of lashing out at others berating them he chose kindness again and again and the only time he snapped was when Jiang Cheng was being too cruel to Wei Wuxian and Wen Ning finally got sick of it and threw everything in his face. Even then he didn't do it for himself, he never defended himself from Jiang Cheng or pointed out the help he gave them but he cared about Wei Wuxian too much to let Jiang Cheng go on that tirade knowing it hurt him.

If WWX and JGY are parallels to each other and how they reacted to somewhat similar situations then so are Wen Ning and Jiang Cheng.

And I kinda think that's also why Jiang Cheng hates Wen Ning with that passion... He sees the softness in Wen Ning that he could never have even if he wanted to... And he can't even have an excuse because their life situation is way too close for Jiang Cheng's consciousness to come up with an excuse to deal with the guilt he does face in his head and so he gets extra upset around Wen Ning.

Wen Ning is what Jiang Cheng thinks he should have been to get Wei Wuxian to stay by his side. (Now this part is probably me projecting a little but who doesn't like a little extra pain for Jiang Cheng.)

[phoenixcatch7]

So earlier I made a post about sun/moon from fnaf getting reincarnated as jc, when I was torn between him and wwx. I really couldn't quite finalise it as jc, wwx just had too much potential.

But then I thought, well, why not both? Sun and moon are technically two people! Just give them different bodies!

And obviously you think hyper overworked sun = wwx and quiet angry moon = jc, but... I actually think it might be better the other way around? I'm not sure

Because we don't really see enough of moon to get a clear read on his character? He's corrupt now, we know that, scaring the kids, but there's proof of him previously being very good at putting hyper kids down for nap time, on top of his role as the guard dog of the complex during the hourly recharge when the lights go out. So clearly he's actually capable of being soothing and gentle and caring, as well as probably very protective. By the game, though, he's just a malicious hunter kidnapping kids for the rabbit boss. A bit of a mischievous streak, he certainly likes to make you sweat.

There's a great parallel obviously between moons corruption and wwx's demonic cultivation, jc constantly being the no fun responsible one sick of everything like sun, but I feel like suns martyring protectiveness is much more like wwx. Sun is a bit of a control freak though, and moon seems much more adaptable.

There's also the twin jades but they're way too stable to be the daycare attendant XD. Maybe jgy and jzx? They're half brothers with the same birthday after all... I don't know... The potential is there but again they're not as manic as the twin prides lol.

Anyway they'd make excellent foils, being in different bodies and able to communicate for the first time. I can see them basically being glued at the hip as soon as they were reunited. The fear of dogs would be interesting because they're theoretically more than old and experienced enough to not have it be so world defining but on the other side they were made lived and died in the pizza plex, they would never have seen real animals before except MAYBE the occasional service dog that wouldn't be allowed in the actual play area anyway. I could see wwx loosening up and getting a bit boisterous as he finally gets to live life on his terms (ish) no matter which he is. Him being trained as the right hand of jc would be really interesting if he was moon, given their original roles. Either way I can see him going dark to protect the wens and the other being beside himself at the thought of being separated again. They'd both have pretty severe trauma regarding losing cores, so I don't know if wwx would actually be able to sacrifice his. That little time would be very interesting... Very canon divergent.

In terms of romance, though... I can't see them being willing to share lol. Maybe if they both dated the same person....? I really don't know, romance is not my scene. I'm making them asexual either way lmao.

Oh but the dynamics would be so good!! Yes, I'm thinking moon wwx, they'd be nigh telepathic twins who live to rile each other up. There'd be the angst of recovering their 'relationship' from ruin, being separate people instead of one... Never being able to return to what they once were and if they even want to... Moons broken trust in sun and suns guilt at the way he handled it but having no other option... Both of them completely disillusioned by authority and the people that should have saved them, especially so in wwx's case when his parents died and left him on the streets again.

Ooh! A scene where people get cursed to gem fusion or something, meant to force bickering couples to work together or something, but the prides just flow together like they were meant to be. Lots of should they/shouldn't they unfuse and the realisation that they're separate people now with separate wants and wishes.

They'd probably have pretty severe separation anxiety that their parents would hate though... Burial mounds time skip would be the WORST.

Wwx, experiencing freedom and sunlight for the first time: BEST SECOND LIFE EVER :D!! I can't believe humans get to live like this!

Jc, now having to do work on PAPER like a neanderthal and unable to get moon to shut up by flicking the light switch, still dealing with simultaneously overbearing and emotionally neglectful handlers/parents: yeah no this is just fantastic.

Or wwx: hey hey hey play with me now we're in separate bodies let's go swimming like humans

Jc, grounded for running off to play with wwx and missing training: >:(

Wwx:... *back flips his way upright and tosses jcs paperwork into the harbour*

Jc: *years of pent up aggression that would have gotten them discontinued if he'd acted on it* *bodily throws them in the lake after it*

They'd be soooooo particular about the arts too XD. Mr sun 'be creative on your own time we are making ART' drop. Ooh jc being able to reconnect with kids on his own terms, not being forced to care for them twelve+ hours a day every day without break. Wwx being able to person again without the corruption.

My headcanon for the DA is that it's one person, just two... Filters? Probably share a memory bank but slightly different ai that grew more separate as the corruption spread, cuz it's something to notice that while moon seemingly had it the worst out of the animatronics, sun... Had zero influence. He was perhaps even less affected than freddy, and infinitely more aware of the situation, though he was powerless to change it.

I'm not sure entirely how it would rewrite the plot, that's something for a different time.

[truly-morgan]

[Deaged!WWX meets JC (w.i.p)]

Shuangjie | Mo Dao Zu Shi 14-07-2021

[#shuangjie + deaged wwi wuxian]

What if wwx gets cursed in some way and ends up deaged, but only mentally. His (mxy) body stays the same, but he goes back to who wwx was somewhere between the killing of Tulu Xuanwu and the attack on lotus pier. he has no memory of what happened to ymj, nothing about giving his golden core, SSC never happened to him, he isn't the yiling laozu yet and never died and revived either.

This is young wwx pre-demonic cultivation and pre-war. lsz and ljy are here when he wakes up, but wwx is so confused because he doesn't understand why these kids his age keep calling him "senior wei". even less /gusu lan/ disciple.

The only face he does recognise is when lwj finally appeared upon hearing his husband awoke. But even then, wwx is confused, who are these boys calling "hanguan-jun"? And why does lwj look... older?

of course, lwj who is specialised in everything wy immediately can tell something is off and quickly they figure out what happened.

then comes the moment where wwx starts to feel uneasy about this situation, everything seems off, why is he in CR without his shidi (or any other ymj disciple for that matter)? Also, isn't CR burned down? how come he was allowed here? Aren't the wen still here? Then he asks for his shidi, because this is what he is worried about right now. Why isn't he here? Did something happen?

He can't calm down and they set to lp after he asked to go home. The travel is made with some tension, lwj (followed by ljy and lsz) make sure he doesn't look at himself through anything reflective (which does set some worries in wwx, why can't he look at himself?) Then, when they get to lp, they are refused to enter, some glaring at him. Why are everyone so defensive around him?

After a while, they are allowed in. They were probably new disciples (he doesn't recognise their faces), yet this keeps adding to the feeling of unease. lwj isn't the same, these lan boys talk to him as though he was much older, ymj disciples act as though he isn't welcome here.

And now lp seems... off. Everything seems in place, yet some details are wrong, it feels like home but not quite. A door that should have been here isn't here. this table isn't quite what it should be. Why do many things look newer than what he remembers?

Then he passes ymj cultivator and the robes feel just as off. Is his memory failing him are were the uniform not like this yesterday?

But also...

Where is jc? Why hasn't he showed up yet?

They finally get to the sect leader quarter and even this... seems so off. But it's alright, he'll be able to ask jfm about it. but then they get in and /everything/ if different. From where furniture are placed, the furniture itself and the overall aesthetic of the place.

Then his gaze fall on the person who just stood up, looking directly at him.

And he is pinned in place by those eyes. This looks like jiang cheng, but the idea he would have of his years in the future. He looks taller, stronger, more fierce...

but also displeased.

"Second young master lan, may I ask why you decided to barge into lotus pier?"

wwx is so confused as to why jc sounds so cold towards lwj. Sure, he never was close to him, but they didn't hate each other either, right?

"A-cheng, why so cold? I simply asked to be brought back home because I have no idea how I ended up in cr"

he is surprised by the glare given to him by his shidi, not expecting for him to get mad at him. What did he do wrong this time? This doesn't look like angry chengcheng, he looks seriously mad at him, as if he did something horrible.

all of this makes him even more uneasy, yet he tries to hide it as best as he can.

jc doesn't add any more, observing wwx. something seems off about him. He knows the man can be shameless, but he wouldn't but so bold as to be so familiar with him and dare to call LP home after rejecting him.

After the guanyin temple they kept their distance (to wwx wish) and when they had to "work together" (or rather they happened to be there at the same time) wwx wouldn't act so familiar with him anymore.

Then he hears wwx go off about what he remembers before waking up in CR and it makes jc frowns even more. He must be fucking with him right now, these were all things from deep in the past, days before the wen destroyed LP.

"What is the meaning of this?" he asks, turning to lsz for answers (He is less likely to get mad if it's not lwj explaining and rather someone he got used to after being around jl so much).

He steals glances to wwx as the young cultivator speaks, seeing how confused he seems to be too. wwx apparently ran off somewhere on their last night hunt and he was unconscious when they got to him, they have no idea what happened.

"Then seni- hum..." lsz catches himself, reminded by how wwx nagged them about it, "Wei Wuxian woke up... like this". and by like this jc understood. This was wwx, but him from back in the day.

He was seriously unsure why they took him back here though because he wasn't more knowledgeable of how to get wwx back to himself. "I still don't understand how it concerns me" he does point out, "Why take him here? Doesn't Gusu Lan have the resource to search this... situation?"

"A-cheng, why are you being so mean to me, you know CR isn't for me! Plus the wen are still there right?" He then throws a look at lwj and it is a sentence in of itself, clearly he doesn't understand why jc wants him to stick with lwj either.

jc sighs at that, pinching the bridge of his nose, thinking.

He doesn't necessarily want to deal with this, but he also knows wwx. He /will/ find a way to run back to LP if they take him back to CR. In best case scenario he travels without problems, worst-case... he doesn't want to think of it.

Sure, the cultivation world might have softened their opinion on the yllp, but many were still wary of him. wwx in this state is missing nearly two decades worth of what happened in the cultivation world, but also the memory of what he did & why some will be wary and hostile towards him.

Something in him tells him not to involve himself, but stronger part care and worries for him. jc ends up accepting reluctantly, telling servants to prepare a room for their guests. lwj thanks him for his help and goes to guide wwx outside of the room, yet the man dodges him.

wwx might be really confused about what is happening, but he was able to piece together that, right now, this wasn't the time and year he thought it was.

Was he... in the future? This would explain how lwj and jc looked older and how everything felt odd (even his body felt odd). He has the impression that he should be close to lwj, but he is not? Sure, they fought well together and he does like teasing him, but they aren't close either.

He should be close apparently, yet he can't get himself to be comfortable with this unknown relationship he has with the second young master of gusu lan.

He turns to jc instead, hoping that this future version of him would help him out a bit more. He didn't understand why he was apparently not in LP anymore, but he thought jc would at least help him. He knows how he actually is not really close to lwj!! Plus he has no idea who these two young cultivators (who keep referring to him as if he was old) are.

Everyone goes silent at that, not missing the hurt on the man's face, yet he doesn't reach again, accepting it. This "isn't" his husband, this is young wwx where they have still not had the best of interaction.

ljy seems about to say something, but jc is quicker than him.

"I will take care of wwx for now, hanguang-jun doesn't need to worry".

To this, the lan politely make their exit, lwj clearly tensed, and follow the disciple who came to guide them.

Only once he was alone with jc did wwx manage to calm down a bit (which didn't go unnoticed by jc.).

jc simply asked for a servant to prepare a certain room for wwx, before going back to his desk, showing for wwx to sit with him.

"Do you understand the situation?" he asks.

jc won't run around the bush, he knows wwx si smart enough to have caught up on the situation at this point. He might not drop 2 decades' worth of information on him (not now), but he wants to make sure wwx understand the situation (and situate from when exactly wwx "is from").

"I am in the future?" wwx answers, although it does sound more like a question.

"my, you could say it like that" jc says, "Sound more like you regressed back to a younger self to us" he pointed out, "What do you remember exactly happened before waking up". then wwx proceed to tell him again, a little bit more calm this time and more at ease, allowing jc to have a better idea of when, which he was exact.

wwx had killed tulu xuanwu, but nothing had hit LP yet. truly this wwx was lucky to only have these memories (and hopefully, only for now, wwx really needed to get back to normal).

somewhere in wwx rambling about what they did the day prior to him waking up at CR, somewhere came to tell them the room was ready.

with this, jc decided to cut the conversation here, leading wwx through those halls that were the same yet not at the same time, smiling a bit happily when he realised this was the way to his room.

"For now, try not to run around and stay in your room," jc asked.

wwx was about to protest, but seeing how serious he was, (and remembering what situation he was in) he decided not to argue too much. "I'll come back to get you in the morning tomorrow, we will try and see what we can do, for now, rest".

before going, jc made sure with the servant that no mirror or overly reflective objects were in the room. maybe wwx could accept that he was in the future, but it was probably harder to understand why he wasn't in his own body (jc didn't have the energy to go back over years of bad times and memories).

On the other side, once wwx was left alone he dropped the facade, allowing himself to be worried. He seriously didn't understand the situation and even the room that should have made him feel better couldn't because some things were too off to be /his/ room. It was as if nothing in here had been touched in /years/.

He was trying to process what exactly had happened but really couldn't see how he ended up in this situation. He went to bed when a headache started to bother him.

Now he was back in lotus pier with jiang cheng. This situation was complicated and confusing, but he trusts his shidi. He felt like whatever was to happen, as long as jc was here he would be alright.

===

(Look at me, still having no idea where I go with this. I might have later when I know. I somehow wanted deaged jc dealing with deaged wwx. where he is stuck between all the shit that happened, but also still caring for wwx and knowing that /this/ wwx hasn't done anything per se (yet).

Dunno, just a series maybe of Wei "I have no idea how I got here in the future" Ying meets Jiang "I am tired of everything going bad all the time I need a vacation" Cheng.

also, make me wanna make a wei ying meet deaged jiang cheng)

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

[Part 2: mixed feeling]

The next morning, wwx woke up early, a bit confused why he got up this early when he would usually sleep until later in the morning, but since he couldn’t get back to sleep, he decided to go and try to find jc. 

Before that, he tried finding some robes, not that he hated the paler one that was more typical to gusu lan, but he wanted something more him. He was delighted to find some clothes that fitted perfectly what he would usually wear.

They looked pretty similar to a set of robes he had actually, now that he thought about it, yet these looked unused.  

But then when he changed it felt strange. He had expected the clothes to be a bit too small for him. After all, these looked like clothing he would wear in his teen years, but his body should be at least two decades older, doesn’t this mean he should be a different size?

Yet they were actually too big for him!! It wasn’t comically too big (like a kid putting on adult clothes), but they were clearly not fit for his build. How so? Weren’t these supposed to be his clothes? 

This only contributed to the weird feeling he had about his body, something was clearly up. Some things he thought were as tall as he was now taller. Touching his own body felt strange, as the feeling wasn’t quite right. And the strangest of all he felt weak, had his cultivation been affected by this curse?!?

Adding to this how he had not been able to see his reflection one time since he woke up in CR, he was starting to wonder what happened to his body.

He decided he would ask jc later, putting on these clothes even if they were a bit too big (who cares, they were in his room, they are his even if too big). He was ready to go out and find back jc (or wander around LP for a bit), but was instead surprised when he ended up face to face with the two lan kids that came with them. 

“Senior wei, good morning” lsz smiled politely, followed by ljy. “We were asked by hanguang-jun to come to pick you up, so you wouldn’t get yourself in trouble by doing something stupid” ljy finally said, gaining a look from lsz for the way he had said it. 

Wwx wanted to sigh at them being there so early, yet it was probably to be expected with the usual lan schedule. He did think of running but pushed down the idea (“jc seems already tired of this situation, maybe I shouldn’t add to it... for now”). 

So he followed them and he found jc and lwj eating in the room, sitting at a good distance from one another. Wwx missed how lwj moved a bit so he could sit next to him, instead of directly going to sit next to jc, already greeting him and being happy to see him again. 

“We were trying to figure out what happened to you,” jc said when wwx asked what they had been talking about before they got here.

And this was actually the only thing they all talked about as they were waiting for a servant to bring them breakfast. Wwx had somewhat stopped listening, as he had no recounting of what they were talking about.

When the food finally came in wwx was a bit puzzled as to why he had such bland food too, throwing confused glances to jc. Had they cooked him the same thing they did for the lan? Such bland and boring food? “A-cheng, won’t you let me steal some of your food?” he asked teasingly.

When he did try he was surprised when his hand was pinched away, making a dramatically offended face “A-cheng, why so mean!” he said, yet didn’t try again. 

He really wanted to push again, but he felt like things were off. He felt like if he were to push this older jc too much, the man would seriously get mad, nothing like what he was used to from his grumpy shidi. Honestly, the last thing he wanted was to really offend and upset him. 

Yet, after a while, he saw jc reaching for his bowl, leaving in some of his spicier food, making him grin.

The younger lan boys gave an uncertain look to lwj, unsure how the man felt at seeing his husband acting like this with slj, yet they couldn’t read anything, his face as impassive as usual. 

Breakfast was unusually quiet for what ymj meals could be, probably because most lan do not speak while eating (even outside of gusu lan). Which jc didn’t mind, since he didn’t have much to share with his guest, even less since it was someone, he wouldn’t normally welcome like this.

Yet wwx would still start talking to him by moments when the silence would get under his skin, sometimes teasing lwj the same way he would in the past (although it probably felt like recent things for wwx right now).

This left jc the time to think about the complicated feeling he had since they got here yesterday night. He had been conflicted about how he should feel. He still felt all he felt from all the shit wwx did.

Transferring his golden core without telling him. Deflecting and choosing the wen over his promise. Being the cause behind jyl and jzx death. The way he acted now was as if they should leave the past in the past. He still had all those things that had piled up over the years.

But he still cared for him and somewhere deep inside he knew he would never stop caring for wwx, he wasn’t sure what could actually kill that care he has for him (and he knows deep down that he hope wwx also still cared for him).

But this wwx? This wwx hadn’t done anything yet per se. This was wwx before the destruction of LP. Before giving his golden core, leading him to demonic cultivation. This was wwx who wasn’t affected by war and DC. This was wwx before he did anything that caused this feeling.

Something in him felt like he couldn’t blame /this/ wwx for what he has done because this wwx clearly only wants to be by his side and actually be the twin pride of yunmeng jiang. This was a wwx who in his [wwx] mind would keep his promise because nothing could change him from doing that. 

Yet another simply couldn’t throw away all the grieved and anger he had gone through (and he feel like he could never let it go fully). Another part was still telling him not to care and to keep his distance because he would only get hurt again. 

Yet he could see how wwx wasn’t playing some joke on him. This was wwx genuinely acting like the wwx jc used to know.

He had barely slept because of his conflicted thoughts and had decided to slowly give it a shot. Test the waters. He would try his best not to snap at wwx the same way he would probably, because this wwx technically didn’t do anything yet.

He didn’t dare to get his hope up, knowing that if they were to manage to cure him, things would probably go back to what they were and he would only get hurt. 

But he would try, because he could see wwx was holding onto him because until now, aside from lwj (with whom he doesn’t remember being close to), jc is the only one he can rely on. 

Because he still cares about wwx and doesn’t fully have it in him to kick him away when he needs it like this, not when this is the wwx he had hoped to see again.

By the end of their breakfast, he had decided on what to set his mind on, feeling more at ease with this choice (yet still hoping he wouldn’t regret it). The rest of the day went by with wwx stuck to him nearly all the time as they were all trying to gather as much information as they could.

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[part 3: parts of the past] 

It took until his second day in LP for wwx to finally see himself and most likely only because he decided to sneak to the pier (as much as he wanted to help with this curse, there was really nothing he could do, so he decided to go have a look at the pier). 

He found somewhere in the shade and where the water was calmer to take a look at himself and he was immediately confused. This wasn’t him! Nothing about this face was him, he couldn’t even blame this on a curse maybe changing him a bit, this was just /not him/.

He started to wonder /why/ he wasn’t in his own body and why /no one/ had mentioned that as if it was actually the normal part of it. Was it normal that he was not in his body? Now he understood better why none of them wanted to let him see, but why couldn’t they tell him? It was pretty important!? What had happened to his normal body? 

And so he ran back to the sect leader quarter where everyone was talking, needing an answer. He didn’t care for the disciple telling him not to just barge into the office like this, his mind racing as to figure out what happened.

Lsz and ljy jumped when the door was suddenly thrown open to reveal a rather troubled wwx. “What happened to my body?!” he asked, eyes landing on jc for answers.

Many emotions he couldn’t decipher flashed across his shidi’s face before he sighed. “This is actually a long story,” jc said, looking back at him, “And it could take a while to tell you, and none of it might be... pleasing to hear”.

“Wei Ying was offered a body after an incident happened” lwj ended up saying to his husband (if he could still really call him that) to try and reassure him without telling him all the detail. 

“Jiang Cheng tell me what happened,” wwx asked, taking a step towards his shidi.

“I do not think sect leader Jiang is the best here to tell” lwj ended up commenting, not wanting for wwx to end up believing he was a monster if jc were to be too harsh.

“Oh, and second young master lan is obviously one to know better when he wasn’t even there I suppose?” jc asked, the frown on his face deepening even more at the clear implication. This only help in throwing wwx into more confusion and worries. What had happened that would make it so hard to tell him? Why were they arguing again?

“Something happened to senior Wei’s original body, and later on someone did a body transferring ritual to give you a new one” lsz ended up telling him calmly.

Sure, he didn’t have all the detail about the man’s life, but he could tell that much without revealing he had actually died. He barely reacted when two pairs of sharp eyes suddenly went to him, although none of the men added to his statement. “Something happened?”. It was truly frustrating that none of them would tell him, it was about him!

Couldn’t he know why he wasn’t in his own body anymore! Especially when the golden core in this body was so weak as though it never was able to cultivate correctly.

jc went to pinch the bridge of his nose again, thinking over how he could explain this without freaking out wwx too much. He wanted to wait a bit more before retelling more of what happened because if they could cure him quickly it would be useless (But he knew that if wwx were to be stuck in this deaged situation, he couldn't go about his life without knowing everything).

"Exactly like lsz said, something happened to your body and someone offered you his body" jc confirmed, "I can explain to you later what happened".

"I can explain to him, we wouldn't want to bother slj more than we already are," said lwj.

wwx looked a bit confused at the man, turning towards his shidi again. Was jc really seeing him like a bother right now?

"Does second young master lan knows what I am feeling more than I do?" jc asked annoyed, "I am the only one here who can decide whether or not this situation is bothersome".

Sure, it was a bit of a bother, but in a way, there was something about it that he still like (despite knowing he should probably not like it).

Whatever lwj might be thinking about him, jc still cared for wwx and was ready to help. He could have just as well let lwj deal with this wwx who doesn't trust his life into his hands immediately the same way the older one would do.

but he didn't because he cared for him.

wwx on the side was confused by the sudden tension of the room, unsure why lwj was acting as if he knew better. Wouldn't he have been by jc side when whatever happened, happened? How would lwj know better?

"Why not work together to tell what is necessary for this question?" lsz suggested. "Like this, if details are missing, the other can add them".

wwx gave the young man a smile at his suggestion, finding this could be a good idea if it can at least keep them from being so hostile towards one another.

So this is how they decided to go, wwx sitting with jc (as usual in the past two days), lsz and ljy ready to be a moderator so no one started to fight.

"I think we should only explain what caused lead to the body transfer" lwj stated before they could start. explaining two decades of things was already a lot to do, but also he didn't want for his husband to be overwhelmed by what he did and caused in the past.

"Finally something we agree on," jc said with a roll of his eyes.

wwx wished he could have the whole story, but he felt like if it wasn't for them wanting to tell him, no one else would.

"Event causes you to use demonic cultivation" jc stated, not interested in reminding himself of what happened to LP /again/.

They explain a little bit about the SSC, how much wwx had used DC (while slightly leaving out all the damage he had caused, this would be for later) This made wwx a bit unsure. Why would he use DC (which he was pretty sure no one else had used before) when he had a perfectly functioning core.

"You didn't have your core anymore, slj did" lwj stated, a hint of reproach in his tone, as if jc was the one who asked for it.

"I gave you my golden core!" wwx turned to jc, looking at him in shock, his mind going wild about the reason that could have pushed him to do so.

jc simply glared at lwj for revealing this, as this memory was something he would rather speak about in private with wwx instead.

"Yes, but the reasons behind it are unimportant for the situation of the body transfer, we can talk about it later"

wwx wanted to push, because this was concerning, something must have had happened if he gave away his golden core, yet he could see in his shidi expression how it was a sensitive subject and how he was already on edge because of lwj. upsetting him was not his goal, so he decided to ask later on.

"Then... did someone make a body offering because I was coreless?" he asked.

"No one knew you were coreless," jc said, a pinch of reproach in his tone that won him a glare from lwj, "I do not think someone could give a body to someone who is still alive, it was because... you were dead" jc finally said.

this made wwx freeze a bit. He had died? He had /died/?!? How could he die so young?! From what they were telling him, he had been doing pretty alright with DC.

"DC was corrupting you and ended up being your downfall" lwj mentioned, leaving out what this downfall had been, "People are saying DC backfired and you were killed by your own army".

lwj wanted to mention other rumours, but it wouldn't be fair as he knew from wwx words himself that jc didn't do it. Really, wy never told him what happened exactly. wwx nodded at that, still a bit unsure what to make of this. it was a lot to take in, that he had died, and apparently from his own cultivation path at that. How could he have gotten to that point?

"Then who gave me this body? Why would he do it?"

"Mo Xuanyu from the Mo family" lwj replied, "You told me he summoned you so you could... take revenge on his family".

This made wwx even more troubled. Someone had summoned him back /to kill/ people?! What had he done in his life for people to think he would happily killed anyone as if he was some sort of demonic spirit.

He turned to jc for answer, yet the man wouldn't get the hint (although he was sure it was on purpose). He supposed it was best like this, he felt like he had heard enough for now, he wasn't even sure if he wanted to hear what else he had actually done in the past for all this to happen.

"I think this is enough for today, now you know why you do not have your original body anymore," jc said as he stood up, "Try not to use DC too much anymore so it doesn't happen again" he simply warned, "cultivate and train your core instead, young master Mo might not have been the best cultivator, but I am sure you can achieve something".

with this, jc ended up excusing himself. After all, he still has a sect to lead. Plus, he doubted wwx was in any state to continue for today and they had already hit a wall for now, all he would do is get angrier at lwj.

Back in the room, lwj stood and went to reassure wwx, yet all he received was a small smile from the man.

He had forgotten this wwx wasn't used to him...

"Is senior Wei alright?" ljy asked, clearly able to see how the man was troubled.

"Yes, of course," he said, forcing another smile on his lips, standing up, "I think I simply need... a moment to process all of this".

He ended up excusing himself too, going back to his room for now where he could process all of what he had been told, his mind racing to figure out how come he had gotten to that point.

No one saw him all day until came diner time.

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[🔅part 4: jin ling] 

It took a couple of days before wwx was able to be alright with the fact he had actually died once. In those couple of days, they also went back to the forest where everything happened, yet they couldn't really find anything and the nearby village wasn't that much more helpful in the task of finding if it ever happened in the past (they weren't sure if they were hiding something and most of them were just not good with outsiders).

It was frustrating to say the least, but they were still looking into it. They were back at lotus pier so jc could take care of some things (lwj and the juniors were back in CR to search the library about it).

This is on his return that jc was surprised by jl visit. “I heard words about wwx being in LP and since I was nearby I decided to come and see". Jl wasn't sure what had happened and simply wanted to make sure his jiujiu was alright.

Jc raised a brow at that, somewhat doubting it was entirely because he was in the area. He was about to tell jl it was alright when wwx suddenly appeared, a large grin on his face as he called out to jc. “ymj training sure are as severe as they were back then” he joked before his gaze landed on jl. 

He was immediately intrigued, as he did not expect for jin cultivator to come here (although it was probably not that surprising since shijie was supposed to marry the peacock. Now that he thought about it jc didn't mention them...). “I didn’t know a-cheng had gotten closer to the llj cultivator, I thought you also thought they were too arrogant” he pointed out amused.

“wwx has been hit by a curse de-ageing him” jc pointed out before jl could ask anything, clearly getting what could have bothered his nephew. This did explain a lot in itself, jl might not have known wwx in his youth (obviously), but he had heard stories.

“Strange, you remind me of the peacock” wwx admitted, tilting his head a bit as he was looking at jl, analysing his feature. The nickname made jl scoff, somehow knowing exactly who he must have been talking about.

“Of course, jin ling is his son” jc replied. 

Wwx gaped a bit at that. “No way,” he said, although he could very much believe it, “Shijie had a son!” wwx then added with a smile, “jzx better have taken good care of her or I'll beat his ass” he then added with a chuckle, missing how jc jaw tightens up and how jl tensed up at that.

“During the SSC his attitude towards jiejie changed and he took good care of her” jc commented, voice sounding off. Wwx was about to ask what was wrong, but a bark stopped him, making him freeze where he was standing next to jc.

Fairy was back from being spoiled by the ymj disciple not too far from here and was now finally coming back to jl. Jl was actually surprised by how worse than usual his reaction was, suddenly making an excuse to go to the pier (“Just finish training, must stink right? I’ll just go bath before we get back to research”). 

“He doesn’t know about my parents,” jl asked when wwx was away, frowning.

“He was deaged to a couple of days before the wen attack LP” jc replied, before explaining a bit more about the situation at hand. “He doesn’t know yet what he did, only some truth of it”.

This somehow made jl a bit angry. How could wwx go back to a state where nothing ever happens and where he hasn’t done anything yet, while his jiujiu was still stuck with the knowledge of all that he has lost, some because of wwx. He was startled a bit when jc ruffled his hair a little bit, telling him not to worry. 

“I can deal with it, plus I am sure we will eventually find the solution and everything will go back to normal,” he said.

“But do you really want everything to go back to normal...” jl thought to himself when he stole a glance at his jiujiu as they were going to get some tea to talk a bit more.

Throughout the day wwx tried to bother him, teasing him a bit about how similar he was to his dad yet acted like jc.

when he was not accidentally bringing back bad memories, jl could see now who had been wwx in the past and why jc was still attached to him.

truly, all jl wished for was for his jiujiu not to be hurt again...

Original

[llycaons]

ep46 (3/3): this is what it's all about. but I talk about surgical policy and jc's innumerable issues for several paragraphs first

this is legit one of the most achingly tender scenes, maybe the moat romantic and beautiful until the very last shot. or even more so. debatable. I really love the last shot. but we're starting with...torture

so in order to wrap my head around the truly absurd prospect of someone being awake for 36 hours straight AWAKE given that the pain and physical stress of surgery would cause way more issues, I'm going to assume that the pain wen ning refers to is only partially physical. the rest is what he describes above - the spiritual pain of tearing out the core and feeling that life and energy drawn out of him until he's empty and cold inside. that makes sense to me. the ramifications of having a blood-and-guts awake operation for that long is dizzying. that is straight up torture

ALSO saying he couldn't have painkillers and had to be awake is such a blatant angst-milking from mxtx. usually the story toes the line just enough for believability but this (and wwx living on the streets as a 4 yr old too, tbh) really stretches the imagination. not that homeless young children don't exist but it seemed like wwx really had NOTHING and he hadn't starved to death or frozen or been mauled despite frequently being attacked by wild dogs so idk it seems like a lot to accept. ANYWAY

god this is so depressing for wwx. so I don't want to critique wen qing because modern medical ethics around surgeries were decades in development and it was kind of an unusual situation, but I really don't think wq should have done the transfer. wwx was a healthy individual with a very high risk of death from this procedure. according to some googling (I know), the highest risk for a non-emergency surgery is an exploratory belly case, with a 47% chance of death.

surgeons can and do refuse to operate if the risk is too high (which is partially about surgeons maintaining their numbers, but still). and jc didn't medically need this surgery, so there was no risk of death on either patient. wwx pestering her to try shouldn't have even mattered...like not to deny his bodily autonomy but that kind of medical decision would never fly today. also jc didn't consent blah blah but actually he did? it wasn't fully informed but he knew he was getting a gc from somewhere. also you could argue he wasn't in his right mind but I'm not the surgery police so whatever.

obviously that's not the point and I'm not castigating wq for doing a favor for someone she felt she owed deeply and probably preventing jc from like killing himself, but I can't help analyzing it from a modern periop perspective bc that's kind of what I'm trained for

god, I kind of wish jc had died though. sure it would have been rough and wwx probably would have been hounded by guilt forever and the jiang clan wouldn't have been restored bc jyl would have never gotten the kind of support she would have needed, but ummm maybe wwx could have married lwj + convinced him to help the wens and jyl could have married jzx and it would all have been fine? no, that's silly. jgy was still out there, and if he'd killed jzx and broken jyl's heart then wwx would never have let the matter go. well it's nice to dream

btw I read a fic once where he died and it was a really boring modern AU. jc is a really great rich character I would miss him I'm just SO sick of him these days. start weeping again IDIOT

*glares at the fanfic that made wwx say he would rather die than be ordinary*

REGRETFUL FLASHBACK TIME!!! strictly speaking lwj didn't NEED this the way jc did because he always changed his ways but he wouldn't be lwj if he didn't take it hard. and he's already been supportive but I can see this making him even more caring and attentive bc jesus christ what a thing to learn

aw yeah the elbow grasp. I love this shot. so many point of contact

wwx bitterly reflecting on what a brat jc's always been - petty, looking to hurt, brash, saying anything as long as it gets a reaction. you'd think he'd grown out of it but wwx seems to be resigned to the fact that he just hasn't grown up at all

...so THERE fanfic author that make him react happily when jc insults him! canonically he dislikes it and is annoyed that jc can't grow the fuck up! it's so annoying when fics make jc the mature one to wwx's silliness bc that's literally the opposite. jc being mean and harsh doesn't mean he's mature and it's really bizarre to see people take him so shallowly. and if reconciliation is to happen jc HAS to get over this he HAS to mature a bit and not act like a bitch when he's mad and take out his rage irrationally on other like that!!! even if he blames wwx for jyl it makes zero sense to blame lwj for his parents he just wants to cling to a justification bc otherwise his life's tragedies have made zero sense. anyway he has issues

awww he was worried about lwj! dw baby I don't think he cares what jc says about him

oh my god it's shijie 😭 the music going I'm going to cry. he sees her in the woods he sees her in the water he loves her so much he misses her she was everything to him love and safety and parent and stability and affection and family and he's never going to stop loving her or missing her is he! I'm miserable

and of course wen ning is like ? and then she vanishes and wwx feels so lonely and empty and sad he just repeats what he used to say to her bc she understood when he needed comfort bc showing love and family through food is such a huge theme in this series

here's what I don't get. why did wwx do this himself and then have lwj scold him?

that isn't very tender lover of you lwj!!! who cares if the lake has an owner, wwx is hungry!!

god wn is so funny here sitting with his lotus seeds <3

what they should have done was have this happen FIRST! lwj sees wwx is hungry and reaches down, breaking the stem and the precepts in one fell swoop! anything for his beloved, who he's just realized has been through even more terrible suffering than he could have imagined! I like to think they get there and he's still not used to this, but come ON writers!

all else being said, it IS a very romantic scene. even if wwx looks flabbergasted like that. like, touched, but also very confused

and HE LOOKS TO WN FOR CONFIRMATION I love that moment and wn is like nodding like yeah young master wei! it's okay! he loves you! yeah it is a surprise he did that isn't it! but it's okay! let's eat some lotus seeds! what a sweetheart

nice shot of wwx looking happy for once in this goddamn episode. happy ending to this awkward yet very sweet impromptu comfort food-stealing boat ride

omg I forgot that it's from the jin clan. fics will have the lans use these ALL the time.

and this is so funny too he gets so excited the boat rocks and lwj has to steady him

I always loved this opening shot for yunping! so so colorful

I had to delete some other shots bc I love this so much. excited about being remembered like this

and then so happy!! this is one if his most enamored looks. sappiest. most in love, even

personal highlights: this is such a delicious episode. SO satisfying

all of wwx's longing looks staring at the ancestral shrine. gutting

wwx sideways acknowledging just how much myu punished him

jc really pressed all of my buttons but in ways that made the response from lwj and wn really satisfying, so I guess he was a team player for that one

that one shot where jc looks just like his mom? their mannerisms are SO similar

wwx stopping lwj with a hand an inch from his pelvis region. awkward and yet very intimate

lwj pushing jc away from wwx very roughly and then so so tenderly bringing wwx to safety

wen ning's passion + excellent memory

jc sobbing. YESSS CRY

"let's quickly take young master wei away from here'

my epiphany that wwx's surgical pain is partially spiritual. it's still pain but do not take this away from me I can't understand it otherwise

elbow grasp 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

wwx complaining about what a terrible personality jc has always had

'I'm hungry' 🥺 and after an awkward stumble lwj came through!!! yess that's what wwx needs

wwx's adoring and pleased little smile at the very end. he's in loovveee

[runespoor7]

Talking about it some more with a friend, a variation of what happens when JC realizes she's pregnant early (before WWX rescues the Wens) and they get married--

WWX brings back the Wens to LP, yeah? Yeah. What's the instigating incident? Oh it's Wen-guniang going to him and asking him, and him protecting her and rescuing her brother because she asked, and they're all staying in Lotus Pier

do you see what this looks like? the optics are horrendous.

Meanwhile JC, whose husband won't sleep in the same room as her: 😶

luckily (lol) JC learned from terrible familial PR that you should nip this shit in the bud! When the gossip gets reported back to her, she counterattacks with a convo in public about how she's the one who had WQ brought here. WQ is her doctor. She wants the best for her health and that of her child, and who better than Wen-guniang?

Privately she's still fucking furious that WWX would dare put her in this situation, and horribly convinced that he's in love with WQ (this is why he's grown distant from JC, he's realized he made a mistake, and now it's too late. how much more can JC be her mother's daughter?), and also horribly ashamed of herself for letting him get away with it. Her mother would never have stood for allowing a rival under her roof, much less a concubine. And she wasn't even the Sect Leader. JC has to pretend WQ being here is her idea or completely lose face, but in private she's walking over red-hot embers about it.

It's a lot of pressure, especially for WQ, who's shouldering all these suspicions and who does have a secret with WWX.

Luckily WQ has not a drop of loyalty in her body so she swiftly comes to prostrate herself at Sect Leader Jiang's feet and sell WWX out: WQ knows WWX has no golden core! Luckily - she hastens to say - she knows it is possible for a sufficiently talented healer to transfer the golden core of a third party into the body of a cultivator!

This has the merit to make her go from "Sect Leader Jiang might have me Zidian'd to death on any given day because her husband's interest in me is a threat to her power" to "I am now Sect Leader Jiang's new indispensable person that she definitely will not throw out".

(I'm thinking WN is alive in this one, coming to find WWX in LP was easier that stumbling upon him in Jinlintai, so WWX got there in time. WQ steps on WN's foot to keep him from volunteering to give WWX his core.

This is for several reasons but the main one is that she's going to make sure that whoever provides WWX's golden core doesn't survive. She does. not. need. JC working out the resemblance between this operation and the one that "restored" JC's core.)

There's a perfectly awful confrontation between WWX and JC - @green-ray-blog1's depiction - where WWX 1)refuses to entertain JC's suspicions, 2)tries to distract her (maybe throws her trust in WQ's word back in her face), 3)insists that of course he has a golden core, Jiang Cheng! 4)attempts to fake plausible cultivation with demonic cultivation.

Meanwhile, JC slowly, horribly trickles to the realization that WWX is a lying liar who lies.

(The friendship between WWX and WQ gets strained as much as JC and WWX's marriage here. How could you, WQ.)

WWX's new core comes from some poor cultivator who was coming to LP to make trouble/try to kill WWX/something, possibly Jin Zixun. JC stands over the procedure with her fists clenched on her robes. If it's worse than what she and WWX did to Wen Chao back then she doesn't care. (WWX does consent to the procedure after a late night whispered convo with WQ. But I think JC would have given WQ the go-ahead even without it.)

If WWX knocked up cis girl!JC, what do you think would happen if JC didn't abort/the baby was carried to full term? How would that change things?

Two thoughts. One, “that depends when.” Two, “oh, this is bad.”

cut for length

the start:

The version that’s most different from canon is this: what I mean by “this is bad” is that if JC gets pregnant before WWX breaks away from the sect and she keeps it, she tells him. And then they get married. WWX is super duper unwell! It shows! It’s constant whiplash between WWX being all over her + whispering promises to her belly and WWX seemingly barely standing to be in the same room as her, much less look at her or sleep in her bed. Not to mention he’s still doing exactly as little as before they got married and is if possible getting even drunker. 

And then shit goes down - and there’s absolutely no way JYL and JZX got married in this timeline, not with JC marrying WWX, so here shit 100% does not involve WWX being thought not to be part of YMJ anymore. The chances of WWX getting killed in a Jin ambush because he’s made himself an issue to them are pretty high. If that happens, no way YMJ gets away from WWX’s death without at least being painted as accomplices; at best they’d have to pay reparations. Depending on how JGS makes his move, maybe YMJ gets straight up cornered with demands that they give up the Seal/the Wens WWX might have broken out, and there’s a war. Basically it’s a very bad time all around.

The least-bad possibility is the most-like-canon-one, which is that WWX and JC hooked up miserably when WWX was in the Burial Mounds, after WWX had dumped JC– I mean after WWX left Lotus Pier.

JC learns she’s pregnant only around/after Zixuan’s death, maybe even after JYL’s death! Not a good time to tell WWX about it! Ideally she only realizes she’s pregnant after WWX’s death. Denial of pregnancy doing us a solid amidst the months of trauma and getting us to the end point of JC having a kid. This is the ideal time for JC to be pregnant with WWX’s child because the outer conflict is minimal. All the conflict is internal, it’s about her feelings. 

In this scenario, she hides the pregnancy for a few months, secludes herself for a few months more - maybe she has to use her grief for her sister’s death as an excuse. I think in this case Madam Jin probably comes over to Lotus Pier with baby Jin Ling, to take care of JC. I don’t think JC can successfully hide from Madam Jin that she’s pregnant, despite her disciples and her doctors doing their best. I also think it’s *pretty damn unavoidable* that Madam Jin guesses who the father is.

JC is proud, so proud; but she’s not proud enough not to beg when the truth would ruin her sect. There’s probably JL asleep in someone’s arms. Madam Jin agrees to keep the secret.

JC won’t marry but she also cannot be having a child on her own, so her child is introduced as an orphan taken in by the sect; probably the child of a disciple killed during the Siege. YunmengJiang ends up taking in roughly half a dozen children, from newborn to children almost old enough to start training as disciples, in the aftermath, their mothers insisting the fathers were disciples of the Jiang. It might even be true. It’s not such a light cost that the sect’s budget doesn’t need to be reworked to accommodate for these new expenses, but it’s such a good cover for JC’s child that she shoulders the rumors of her soft heart gladly.

A consequence of this choice: JGY is, in fact, very well-disposed toward JC, personally. JC still faces shades of rebuke and ridicule at the first conference after she starts taking in “disciple orphans”, but she bites out that she’s honoring her disciples’ debts and making certain her disciples will be honored by their children. That gets NMJ pretty firmly looking at her with new eyes. That *is* an honorable, brave decision from Sect Leader Jiang. So the Jiang Sect is less isolated shortly after WWX’s death than in canon. 

I don’t think this changes anything to NMJ’s death, and JGY himself is careful not to seem overly close to an unmarried woman for fear of any hint of scandal, but in the longer term YMJ probably enjoys more cordial bonds with GusuLan. (LXC too looks kindly upon taking in war orphans! and he does have a brother, at home, who brought one back…)*

*(you could seamlessly weave in timeskip zhancheng through the honored means of LWJ hating on JC for daring to parade around as though she was an honorable sect leader, when she turned her back on her shixiong, and the equally honored means of bonding over children. LXC would totally be up to meddling by organizing playdates between A-Yuan and the YMJ kids. LWJ would be scaldingly angry at him once he finds out, though, so it would be up to A-Yuan to ask to see JL and the others again. LWJ would insist on being there; JC would look at LWJ as though judging him for his anger. I’m not saying they’d have to fuck but they might. Even if they don't, bonding over being left with children by WWX’s death. No way LWJ would get to know whose kid JC’s heir apparent is, though.

But I don't think I want to bring in LWJ for this one.)

the timeskip:

What I want to do is focus on JC and how complicated the situation wrt the kids would be for her. And while I'm at it, I'm tired of playing hide the gender with the kid, so let's say she has a daughter, because mdzs “male by default” stance on the juniors was really annoying to me.

JC’s daughter is almost the same age as JC’s nephew, so it makes sense for JC to single that one child out; people think it’s so the Jins won’t hope for JL to also inherit the Jiang, or that it’s so JL will have a friend among the Jiang. She lets those rumors run, as well. For once, let gossip work for her.

It's complicated, for JC, handling her daughter, in a way handling JL isn't. Her daughter isn't quite hers in the eyes of the world (JC didn't adopt her so soon, afraid someone would work the truth out). And she’s not merely hers; she’s WWX’s.

JC isn’t really more okay with WWX’s legacy than in canon because WWX orphaned JL. She’s still sharp-tongued and sharp-tempered. 

here’s a handful of facts:

She tells JL to think of JC’s foster daughter as the sister his parents would have given him. 

JC's daughter hates WWX because she knows he killed her father at the Siege. That's as hard on JC as hearing her daughter cackle WWX’s childhood laughter.

Sometimes it's hard for JC to look at her daughter.

There are scenes of heart wrenching conflict between her kid and her. “You're not even my real mother!” gets yelled once at the apex of a horrible fight, JC's face changes, the kid bursts into tears and runs to her room. The scene is only settled with JC entering the kid’s room (her daughter is hugging herself as hard as if JC had taken puppies away) and telling her stories about her parents. The kid goes from hugging herself to clinging to JC and sobbing. (JC cries when she returns to her room.)

It's also hard because as her daughter grows up sometimes JC thinks her daughter wants to leave. That she'd rather be a rogue cultivator, not the heir to the Jiang. Too much of her father on her, perhaps.

All this to say that JC isn't a perfect foster mom to her child.

the kids are very close. nobody is scared of JC in this household. JC’s daughter giggled and squealed as a baby/toddler when she heard JC shouting at other people. (Mama being shouty was very funny to the baby.) 

JC formally adopts her daughter at some point between Rusong’s birth and JL getting his sword, I’m not sure when exactly. 

JC develops a longstanding grudge against JGY for giving JL Fairy, for the following reasons: 1)like in canon, she can’t be the one giving JL a dog. 2)her daughter wants a dog. so JC is cast in the position of refusing, and she does refuse, because - when her daughter shouts and laugh, when her daughter cackles after JC’s shouted from afar at both children to be careful in the water, it’s like WWX never quite left. She can’t close that door. She can’t pretend she thinks he’s never going to return. She can’t choose not to be haunted. 

In place of a dog, she gets her daughter a pony. 

(Her daughter is prompt to decide this is much cooler than a dog. Later JC will dourly regret gifting her adventurous child the means with which to gallop all over the place. The pony’s saving grace is that you can’t put a pony on a flying sword, at least.) 

The children bicker endlessly about the merits of their respective animals. JC’s daughter calls her pony Thunder Vengeance. Everybody but her calls her Thunder for short. (because she makes a lot of comparisons to Leigong and Dianmu and her mother, and she casts herself as the little boy driving Leigong’s cart.) 

Daughter’s name contains a reference to Yanli because JC was not done feeling guilty for not being able to hate WWX even after he caused JYL’s death.

changes after WWX’s resurrection:

When WWX gets resurrected in this timeline, both kids are on Phoenix Mountain. I’m not sure how exactly close to canon WWX’s meeting with JL (and JC’s daughter) is, I want to say very close - maybe JL says “my aunt” and WWX goes “your *aunt*?” and JC’s daughter stands as tall as she can and says “yeah, my *mother*” - anyway I want JC’s daughter here and identified as soon as possible. 

This changes two things:

WWX’s brain is running blank because what JC kid. JC had a kid. JC. a CHILD??? it cannot go uninvestigated.

JC does not shout about WWX when she arrives, because her child is there and that's her other parent. She’ll be angry at herself later for trying to preserve something that isn't, but it's incredibly important for her that her child doesn't fight her father. It would be awful and wrong. JC’s lie about her daughter’s dead father was always going to have consequences but it shouldn't have this one. JL was orphaned by WWX.

So JC is more controlled, and WWX isn’t immediately convinced that he's been recognized and needs to gtfo before his ex murders him, and he very badly wants/needs to know what's up with JC and her kid.

When JC claims “MXY” must be dragged back to YMJ, he goes very willingly. This is what he wanted! He's still a bit apprehensive, but he's too curious not to go.

He chats with the kids, mostly, on the way back. JC isn't very talkative. It's enough for him to get the piece of information that JC’s daughter is her adoptive daughter, and the heir to YMJ. (It's weirdly reassuring to hear for some reason. It's JC taking a decision for the sect but there’s not, like, an entire husband and family and moving-on, it's still JC. And at the same time, he feels unmoored. JC adopted a child? Just like that. YMJ’s heir is adopted. She and JL are bickering and talking over one another and calling each other brother and sister.)

In LP, JC sends the kids swiftly to bed (there are protests), and WWX is starting to remember that oh yeah he'll have to do some quick thinking probably, when JC reveals she knows who he is. He denies. She pulls out Zidian - did you really think you could fool her, WWX? How dare you! Why did you return now? What do you want?

(I think they fuck. Or, at least: he very much feels like going to her like he once did, his hand wants to cup her cheek, he wants to smooth away the furrow on her brow.)

“Is it so hard to believe I just wanted to see more about the children?”

JC’s lips twist.

She doesn't throw him out or in a torture dungeon. Might drag him to the altars and make him apologize.

Most likely, they get to cogitate about The Plot. 

The pattern of the story is public lies and secret truths, so that's how it happens here too. WWX stays incognito in LP, and they fall into bed - like when they were younger, they have to be discreet. The vibe here is very much they're having a affair and they have to hide it.

The affair vibe includes the plot-relevant investigation. There's a little less JC and WWX travelling together than LWJ and WWX in canon, but there’s WWX sneaking back into LP in order to keep JC aware of his latest findings (and to have a fight about WWX inviting WN into LP) and Sect Leader Jiang stopping back from a night-hunt at an inn to meet an informant (WWX). 

This features things like WWX walking off the road because he’s daydreaming about the intimacy of seeing JC before bed, with a damp lock of her hair sticking to her neck and snaking down between her tits, and the ancient xianxia equivalent of a negligee that might be a little see-through. 

Also featured: WWX rolling his shoulders trying to feel the bruises she left (she still scratches but MXY’s core is only good for getting rid of those, which seems the worst of both worlds to WWX! He liked feeling the scratches a couple days down the line!!!). WWX is down bad for milf JC. (Also features JC staring at the strewn papers that fell on the ground last night when she and WWX started making out before she could put them away. She’s determinedly Not Thinking about it, especially when her daughter is raising her eyebrows at her.)

I think JC’s tempted to tell him the truth about their daughter right after Yi City/the Yi City equivalent, but she can't break the habit of keeping it a secret. And she can't know for sure if WWX will–she can't just tell WWX on a whim just because some stuck-in-the-past part of her wants to tell him!

WWX-investigating-Jinlintai this time involves WWX wondering how to infiltrate Jinlintai, and running into JC in Jinlintai. JC has good access to Jinlintai, so if he pretends to be part of her retinue it’ll hold out for all of two minutes until people recognize MXY. JC is not delighted with the idea but she likes JGY pulling shady stuff which endangers JL even less. 

The investigation does not result in WWX being uncovered in front of the entire Jianghu (Qin Su doesn't kill herself), but possibly only because JC and WWX end up pulling the oldest undercover move in the book: making out against a door. Afterwards JC is pissed because that's her reputation. WWX is a little flippant when he says that he knows how important her reputation is to her, but– do you, WWX? JC retorts. Do you?? Do you think I would have the raising of my nephew if the cultivation world didn’t think me above personal desires, above feelings and manipulation?

So the truth about the kid comes out when they confront JGY (how does that happen, given that there’s no Guanyin Temple scene? not my problem! all I know is that JGY’s gotta be the one to say it. Amidst the sea of bullshit JGY spouts as he tries to distract them/drive a wedge between them, like in canon, the one true thing he chances on is that JC’s daughter is WWX’s and she never told him. (JGY isn't an idiot. He worked it out. There was no reason for him to do anything about it, but now there is!)

I think WWX makes a run for it. WN finds him basically brooding in the dark in the cave in Yiling, and (gently) pokes him in the direction of returning to LP. At least for an explanation. WWX should get one, WN says. WWX kind of laughs hysterically. What’s JC going to explain? How babies are made? WWX knows how, he was there for it, WN!

(for maximum drama, the kids were there when JGY pulled out that tidbit, so another reason JC isn’t here herself is also because she’s busy with that.)

I’m also thinking that given WN finding WWX and convincing him to return must have taken at least a few hours, WWX finds his daughter out of LP and on her way to look for WWX (on her pony; she didn’t want to be alone for this - and she didn’t want to take JL because JL really did have both his parents dead because of WWX), so he brings her back (and saves JC a heart attack).

They work it out.

[jasmine-does-wevertf-she-wants]

It is absolutely wild to me how people can equate JC's and WWX' journey throughout MDZS and be like "They BOTH went through terrible things and sacrificed a lot for each other!!!1!!1 They should leave the past behind and make up!" Or even worse, when it's suggested that JC has any right to be mad or grieve over the golden core reveal and it will completely reverse their roles when WWX finds out about JC's sacrifice.

Yes, they have both sacrificed for one another and have wronged one another. But there are NUANCES here - one is not like the other!! WWX has carved out the very essence if himself, cultivated over decades in an excruciating, life-threatening procedure over the course of 3 days to save JC's life and legacy. Yes, he lied about it. Yes, he lied about it for a long time. Yes, the lie entailed a not inconsiderable amount of shame for Yunmeng Jiang through his "disrespect" as head disciple. No, this does not even out the sacrifice made.

First of all, the lie was as necessary for Yunmeng Jiang's survival as it was for WWX' and JC's dignity. The sect just rebuilt with the most powerful person alive as head disciple - this very head disciple is coreless? Very killable if you get half a chance? Powerful yes, but more vulnerable than previously thought possible. The sect leader of this sect uses the golden core of the son of a servant? Couldn't even keep his own? Vulnerable, vulnerable, vulnerable. Something all JC stans agree, Yunmeng Jiang couldn't afford at the time. And I can't believe it has to be said but having sacfriced something like a golden core and being lied to about it are NOT equally terrible things happening to a person! Plus, JC was only lied to about the specifics - he knew the core was not his. Does the transfer entail a whole lot emotional baggage that would have influenced his decision on it big time? Yes!!! But the general idea is not news to him.

And yes, JC distracted the guards from WWX, losing his golden core as a result. Did he intend to lose his golden core? NO!!! Would he have done it if he knew what it would cost him? Maybe. Personally, I'm leaning to No given his state after the loss, but one could argue probably along similar lines for WWX and his decision was a measured, deliberate one, even discussing it with others beforehand. Point being, JC did not sacrifice his golden core for WWX. He impulsively distracted the guards, resulting in the loss, but he never made a conscious decision as WWX did. And he did blame WWX for it. He never told him but he blamed him for the fall of Lotus Pier and everything else that happened after.

WWX was bitter over JC losing his golden core for something he thought was a reckless stunt. Which it was, but for him, not for his parents. Which WOULD change much about his perception of himself and his position in his former sect, but not all of it. The point remains that JC chose to let him go. JC chose to blame him for everything that happened to him and his family, while knowing it was wrong. JC chose to lie to himself and blame WWX because it was easier for him to cope. JC chose to lay siege to the Burial Mounds to kill his former martial brother and dozens of innocents because he refused to confront these lies.

These are things not like the other and when comparing their respective actions it's clear that it's a whole pile of a toxic mess - lies, sacrifices no one asked for, bitterness and longing. But but - there is a clear cut who acted consciously to damage the other and who sought to protect the other - in toxic ways, yes - but with the best tools he had at the time.

[grewlikefancyflowers]

hello! I've always wondered about the fact that JC distracted the soldiers first? How does change interpretation of canon, and would it have mattered if wwx was told that jc distracted them first?

Hello anon!

The reveal that JC distracted the wens shouldn't really change how the reader views JC's character imo, because all it tells us is that he's capable of good things as well as very awful things. The reader should already know this because we see him being decent at other points in MDZS too (briefly in Xuanwu Cave, when the Wens come to Lotus Pier, and even in Guanyin Temple).

This isn't a 'psych!! jc is a good person!!!' moment, the importance it has to JC's character is that he chooses to keep it to himself rather than using it to try to earn forgiveness from WWX.

'After a moment of silence, Jiang Cheng shook his head, “There’s nothing to say.” [...] just like how the past Wei WuXian couldn’t tell him the truth of giving him his golden core, the current Jiang Cheng wasn’t able to say anything either.' (110)

This is WWX's reason for not telling JC about the GC (aside from the initial reason that it'd hurt JC's pride)

'Later, because Jin ZiXuan and Jiang YanLi had died because of him, Wei WuXian had become too ashamed to ever bring it up again. If he were to tell Jiang Cheng the truth after that, it would only sound like an excuse, a way for him to alleviate himself of the responsibilities by bringing up an act of kindness in the worst time, as if saying, ‘Look, you can’t hate me, I’ve also made sacrifices for the Jiang Sect.’ (102)

Obligation and debt form the very foundation of WWX & JC's relationship, at every every opportunity JC held these things against WWX. The 'promise', that WWX was raised in the Jiang Sect, the deaths of his family & JZX—even after the GC reveal JC holds these things against WWX.

'At this point, it was impossible to figure out who should apologize to whom.' (103)

It all becomes such an entangled mess that their relationship is made unsalvageable by it.

In contrast to wangxian, who's relationship can only be called unconditional—between them there are no expectations, obligations, debts, gratitude or envies. There's no need for thank you & I'm sorry. It is in both LWJ's and WWX's character to give freely to others without expectation for anything in return, to never begrudge what was given or resent what wasn't received. The 'message' of MDZS is that debts and gratitude have no place in a mutually-loving relationship, of any sort.

For JC's character development, in keeping this small thing to himself, when he could have held it against WWX as he does everything else, JC finally made some small progress towards self-improvement. It's the only positive character development he has in the whole novel.

As for whether or not WWX knowing about this would change anything either in the existing story, or post-canon? No.

In his first life, what could this mean to WWX? That JC cares about him? WWX already thinks that. He didn't base his decision-making on whether or not his relationship with JC was good or bad regardless. And if he considered this a 'debt' that tied him to JC?

'Wei WuXian’s expression darkened at once. His voice was harsh as well, “What a joke! Why is it that the debt you owe has to be repaid at the expense of others!”' (62)

He wouldn't let the Wens suffer at the expense of his own debts or obligations anyway, JC would still give him the ultimatum between staying in the Jiang Sect & abandoning the Wens, or leaving. WWX would still defect, the story would remain the same.

As for if JC revealed this post-canon, he himself recognises that this could only come across as an attempt to guilt-trip WWX into forgiving him. It certainly would not endear WWX to him, probably quite the opposite.

In the end, after everything JC has done, WWX doesn't want him in his life anymore, one good deed won't change that.

[mxtxfanatic]

I have an idea for a fic where JC is more emotionally mature (less 5 y/o throwing a tantrum, more 15 y/o waiting to go to their room to scream) with more political skill. Due to this, I would want WWX to not die. In this, I would still want wangxian to elope. Would either sect be in the position to protest the union? Like, is it once they do the marriage ritual, that's it, no turning back?

Also, we know that the core removal was a theory. Do you think given space and time where their life isn't in constant danger, that WQ & WWX would have come up with a solution? I always wondered because, his spiritual veins and meridian should be intact & assumed that his body still produces spiritual energy but has nowhere to store it.

I hope you are doing well.

Seeing as this is all magical fantasy and mxtx does not say otherwise in the novel or in an interview that I know of, I don't see why exactly Wei Wuxian couldn't just... form a new golden core. Like it never says that nobody can form a new golden core, just that cultivators who lost theirs also lost the will to live. You're not born with a golden core in a cultivation novel; it takes years of training and practice to form one. I don't see why one couldn't just form a new one after dedicating more years to it outside of the trauma of having lost the original and the weakness of caring too much what others will think if you appear to have formed yours "too late" in life. At the same time, if Jiang Cheng wasn't suicidal, no way would Wei Wuxian volunteer his golden core.

My real questions to any of this is does Jiang Cheng's morality actually change? If the only thing that changes about him is his emotional maturity, then Wei Wuxian isn't gonna stay friends with him "just because." Jiang Cheng will actually have to stand on the right side of things, and willingly at that.

As for the marriage stuff, I don't think wangxian would gaf about anyone else's opinions on their marriage. Unless someone kills or kidnaps one of them, neither cares what others think about their union, which is why they elope in canon. Lan Wangji would have to deal with his family since they are his actual family (as he does in canon, because they also don't approve then), but Jiang Cheng has no claims or right to be upset about how and in what manner Wei Wuxian gets married. Jiang Cheng is not Wei Wuxian's family. Either way, nothing's gonna stop wangxian.

[joys-ramblings]

And outside of the romance WWX should logically undergo character growth and realise his faults before making peace with his past. Not notoriously forget bad stuff and leave the past buried - which only works when he has a partner like LWJ to lean on.

I disagree with this strongly actually. 'Redemption arc' vs 'Enlightenment arc' has been floating around for a while. I was planning to write something on it later, I won't go into details here, but I'll float the idea.

And literary analysis aside, sometimes the healthiest thing to do for everyone is drop things and run. Of course reconciliation and fixing things is ideal, but that doesn't always work. WWX's first life has demonstrated repeatedly that it doesn't always work.

At least to me, WWX's actions make as much sense as JC's, aka. complete sense considering the information that he has and the mental state that he is in.

WWX being favoured by JFM. This isn't WWX's fault, and you can't expect the teenager to magically know how to mediate. Besides, the 'no he doesn't dislike you, you are his son and heir' is honestly the best reassurance WWX can give. He even tops it off with 'I swear my loyalty to you' (declaration of love). WWX's minus points comes from turning his back on this promise later, but that is with good reason. aka...

Defecting to the Wens - JC doesn't know this, but WWX knows Wen Ning and Wen Qing are their benefactors. In terms of moral obligation, he absolutely cannot abandon them. Note that this is a really tricky situation to be in. He gives all the arguments that he can to JC without telling him about the core transfer. If he tells JC about the core transfer, a) he will have a meltdown b) it really won't fix the situation. From WWX's perspective, better JC misunderstand him, maybe even despise him a little, than break. Maybe there were other things to be done, like negotiation or wtv, but WWX isn't in the best place to think these things through. From WWX's perspective, this is a totally reasonable action.

Golden Core - this was an act of self-sacrifice. Sure JC didn't ask for it, but WWX didn't tell him about it for this exact purpose - because he's not doing it for JC to owe him anything. Not to say JC should take this without complaint, just that WWX's intentions were exceedingly good.

For Wen Ning's words, can we appreciate that a) Wen Ning isn't WWX and b) Wen Ning has good reasons to be pissed at JC, independently of WWX.

WWX did suffer the consequences of his actions. He lost everything he held dear to him. He died. Quite a painful death probably. He anguished, regretted, and died with no one on his side, with no intention of returning. The second life was an accident.

And what could be done after this point? I think what JC wants if for none of it to have happened. But it's too late. It's already happened. They've hurt each other trying to help each other. They've given everything for the other, and it's all led to nothing but pain. WWX knows this. From his perspective, he's the one who's given more, and has nothing left to give. Besides, the sect is doing fine, JC is alive and relatively well, with a golden core. Arguably, the best thing for them at this point is to part ways (and maybe start a journey of reconciliation when things are many degrees cooler)

LWJ also knows this. LWJ knows WWX has been criticised by everyone (and in fact, criticised him himself when nobody else would), and the fact that he tried so hard has never been appreciated. LWJ sees him for who he is, rather than who the world has made him become, and stands by him against everyone else because he knows WWX is right (aka. Jin Guangyao is sus). Yes, he is blind to JC's perspective, but that makes sense from his own upbringing etc. (I love LWJ lol. I will fight on this hill)

I'm reminded of a parable of the spider's thread. Ignoring the rest of the context, if a single thread of salvation can be lowered for a man whose only good deed is to not kill a spider, WWX, for all his goodness, deserves far more than a single thread. In fact, I think he deserves an entire person who supports him wholeheartedly. (Wen Ning, LSZ, LJY etc. don't count, bc WWX deserved their support in other ways)

(JC is also deserving, but he can get this in the form of JL + a new second in command)

I'm going to come out and say that the more I re-read MDZS the more I actually HATE WWX.

I know he's a protag so everything is supposed to be about "poor me I've done nothing wrong" but I can't stand those types of people. He would be a person where if he existed in real life I would not be able to be around him.

I've actually become more of a Jiang Cheng apologist (actually, no, because that implies that he's ever done anything wrong).

I read through all the main points and here are a few things that piss me off. Please add on if I missed something:

WWX is obviously favored by JFM and if JC brings up this concern, all WWX says is: "no he doesn't lol you're so silly I'm not his son" TBH WWX wasn't his child but JFM had a son and it wasn't JC

Golden Core transfer. Need I say less (and fuck you Wen Ning for saying JC didn't deserve the core and the power he had wasnt actually his. He cultivated it for YEARS to get it to where it is today. It is NOT WWXs core anymore. Fuck all yall)

WWX defecting from YMJ and going with the Wens when JC had NOTHING. No sect, no support, no family. He's a new sect leader and has no resources or money to do anything or go against anyone. And thanks WWX for defending the people that, you know, massacred his family but whatever. (I understand they were innocent but still, I can tell it would really hurt JC)

Along with the defecting, WWX and LWJ broke into Lotus Pier and BOWED TO MADAM YU AND JFM WITHOUT JCs APPROVAL. DISRESPECTFUL AS HELL I KNOW WHY JC WAS PISSED. WWX had NO RIGHT to be there after everything he had done.

WWX tells JC to leave everything in the past. As usual, he is running away and not accepting any consequences for the many, many, things he's done wrong. If I were JC, I would permanently ban him from Lotus Pier and kill on sight because if he wants to leave things in the past, then that includes WWX.

Lastly, WWX never once defends JC. Whether it be against LWJ, Wen Ning, or other people that say terrible shit to him because they're being petty. Not once does he come to his defense.

To end my rant, WWX is actually a very terrible person (and so is Lan Wangji. Fight me) with no sense and I finally realized it after re reading the book multiple times. Come at me if you want but this is my honest opinion and I get why JC is such an ass because BITCH ME TOO GET OUT OF MY HOUSE.

Hopefully I have some support here but I also know I'm going to get some hate.

[needsmoreresearch]

were you fr about seeing points where jc protects wwx "at all costs"? I'm a horrible frankencanon person who mixes it all together but I really am not coming up with any real instances of this. To me it's one of the ways he stans in narrative opposition to lwj and is like a very purposeful part of his character that he values other things over wwx (and that lwj values wwx very highly) but if you have a completely different interpretation I think you should get to talk about that too. equal opportunity jc discourse❤️

Hi! I'm going to reblog this over at my fandom blog, @inappropriatewenning, but no problems asking over here.

The first thing I thought of, and it's pretty significant, is when he protects WWX by getting captured by the Wen, leading to his torture and de-coring. Now, you could argue that there are probably some other things going on--he may have a death wish, it may be impulsive--but that's a pretty big thing. And at that point he's the head of his family and his sect, and should be protecting his sister. The way it's given in the story stages it as a narrative afterthought, but that's MXTX for you.

This is less dramatic, but also Jiang Cheng busts his ASS getting help to Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji in the cave as quickly as possible, at a time when it might make more sense for the sect to hunker down against the Wen and write WWX off as dead. Jiang Cheng doesn't think he's dead!

Then there's the months of searching for WWX when he's been dropped into the Burial Mounds. Probably he thinks WWX is dead at that point, but hanging onto his sword and all suggests to me that he's got some hope. Aaand after WWX comes back Jiang Cheng covers for him for quite a while as he's being weird and flaky and rude and hostile to the other war leaders, without knowing why he's being like that.

But mostly I was thinking of the place where he deliberately risks death to prevent WWX's capture. I can see arguments about there being complicated reasons for that but I don't see how one can in good faith argue that it's not a risk and it's not for Wei Wuxian.

I agree that Lan Wangji values Wei Wuxian very highly but I don't really see the point in a reading where Jiang Cheng never also values Wei Wuxian. He does additionally value other things--he's got a whole family and sect on his shoulders, and he is a devoted filial member of society that way--and that ends up being too big a conflict for him to pull together, even though he tries pretty damn hard. 

Let me know over at @inappropriatewenning if I’ve misunderstood you!

[plan-d-to-i]

Hi i just read the asks about the Jiang families.

How do you think, in general, JFM would've felt to witness the events after his death? From the whole golden core transfer to WWX leaving the Jiang Sect for protect the weak? What would've been his thoughts on his son and the son of his friend's?

It's just a curious question and you don't need to answer it if you don't feel like but from what ik, JFM is bashed very much by YZY and JC stans.

Unlike them, i find your opinion more canonical so...

I don't think you have to extrapolate very much, it's all here:

Jiang Cheng, “It served you right to be bored to death. You shouldn’t have played the hero and you shouldn’t have cared for such a hell of a thing. If in the beginning you didn’t…”

Suddenly, Jiang FengMian spoke, “Jiang Cheng.”

Jiang Cheng paused, knowing that he had said too much. He was quiet at once.

Jiang FengMian didn’t look as if he was blaming him of anything, but his expression had turned from calm to more solemn, “Do you know in which ways what you just said is not appropriate?”

Jiang Cheng’s head hung low, “Yes.”

Wei WuXian, “He’s just angry and speaking without care.”

Seeing how Jiang Cheng’s mouth and heart were still at odds, how he still felt defiant, Jiang FengMian shook his head, “A-Cheng, there are some things that can’t be said even if you’re angry. If you said them, it means that you still don’t understand the motto of the Jiang Sect, that you still don’t…”

Jiang disciples clearly had more of leeway, compared to a place like Cloud Recesses that had a much more rigid and established set of rules. However the motto and ethos of his clan are very important to JFM and he tries to instill that in his son. He repeats it before they leave for the Wen indoctrination camp too:

Having sat for a while, Jiang FengMian spoke up, “Tonight, I’ll count eighteen more people. You’ll depart together next day.”

Jiang Cheng nodded, hesitant on whether or not he should say anything else. He never knew how to converse with his father, while Wei WuXian was proficient. Finishing his soup, he replied, “Uncle Jiang, don’t you have anything to give us?”

Jiang FengMian smiled, “I’ve given them long ago. Your swords are by your side, and the adage is in your hearts.”

Wei WuXian, “Oh! To ‘attempt the impossible’, right?”

How do you think he would have reacted to jiang cheng not even attempting to aid people he owed his life to?

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! ...

Wanting to let innocent people die?

Jiang Cheng, “You burn this corpse right now and return to them all these leftovers of the Wen Sect. That’s the only way to make the subject die!” As he spoke, he raised his sword again, preparing to attack.

However, Wei WuXian clenched his wrist, “Are you joking?! If we return Wen Qing and the others to them, they’d meet nothing but a dead end!”

Jiang Cheng, “I doubt you’ll even return all of them. Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!”

jiang cheng knows it too, it's part of why he's so angry w WWX:

Jiang Cheng, “… All for the Wen Sect…? Wei WuXian, do you have a savior complex? Is it that you’ll die if you don’t stand up for someone and stir up some trouble?”

Wei WuXian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects the YunmengJiang Sect in the future.”

Or else, he really couldn’t make any guarantees on what he’d do in the future.

“…” Jiang Cheng murmured, “My mom said that you do nothing but bring our sect trouble. It’s true indeed.” He laughed coldly, talking to himself, “‘To attempt the impossible’? Fine. You understand the YunmengJiang Sect’s motto. Better than I do. Better than all of us do.”

jc's words here echo what his father reprimanded him for in WWX's room so closely! jiang cheng knows his father would not have approved of his own actions, but he's completely set aside the clan motto and adopted his mother's world views that conform to his own selfish, self serving nature ... How could any of this have pleased Jiang Fengmian? WWX is still living by YunmengJiang's teachings: doing everything in his power to help the Wens to stand by "the weak, the old the women and the children" who jc mocks, finding a way to truly do the impossible and get jc a core, especially at such huge personal sacrifice, finding a way to contribute to the war even without his golden core, helping jc as JFM had asked until he was firmly back in a position of power- which YunmengJiang was when WWX defected; but jc, his own son and heir has forsaken everything the Clan stood for and was established on. Maybe an amoral person like Jin Guagnshan would be happy just to see his clan be rich and steady, but the few glimpses we've had of JFM's character indicate he would most likely not feel the same. Especially later on when we find out how jc is setting up nets everywhere putting people in harm's way to help Jin Ling cheat, or how ppl are too afraid to go to YunmengJiang Clan for help bc jc low key turned Lotus Pier into a torture dungeon.

[ruthlesscalculuss]

THIS IS A LITTLE RANT ABOUT JC’S TRAUMA, not a discussion post. So…Jiang Cheng. He’s a complicated character with a complicated history. Being neglected by his father and being humiliated by his mother, never truly being good enough for the people he craved respect from the most. Always being second best to wwx.

Then of course we have his trauma, the murder of his family, friends and the citizens of lotus pier. We see him sacrifice himself for wwx, his hopes and his dream of rebuilding the Jiang sect being extinguished at the torture by hands of Wen Chao, his core being forcibly destroyed. We see him struggle and then we see him slowly, but surely lose his best friend/brother because of diverging moral views and a lack of power on both sides to get through it together.

Jiang Cheng cannot loose Lotus Pier again at the hands of the Jin’s and wwx knows this, thats the one thing he cannot sacrifice. That’s why they have a staged fight, to publicly announce wwx’s defection. This way the Jiang Sect won’t be harmed by wwx’s actions. Here it breaks jc’s heart, the only one he wanted by his side was wwx and he can’t understand why he would leave the jiangs to protect the wens, all he sees is his brothers arrogance and his betrayal. He does not know the full extent of the wens help, he does not know wwx is without a core.

Jc is a broken man, he has given his best efforts to not be jealous of wwx, to not let it show just how deep his low self esteem runs. He cannot let himself be weak like his mother said he was, like his father thought he was. I think many people, specifically jc antis, ignore this. He is a HUMAN. He is not a character that can be shoved into black and white, either or. We can be like him, he is the example of the scarring, a physical reminder of unhealthy coping mechanisms with trauma. Wwx of course shows his coping methods as well.

Him trying to make light of most things, his lack of cares for rules because “why does it matter if I follow them, I’ll get punished anyway”, we see this even more so after he’s thrown into the mass grave. After Jin Zixuan dies and Yanli dies, Jc is overcome with anger and grief. He blames wwx, “didn’t you say you could control it?!” and to a degree it is part of his fault. Although I don’t think he had a choice-

they needed to win a war with that demonic energy, nobody can deny that. Jc doesn’t know the sinister plans that are making wwx turn into a target for the world. Imagine it was you, could you say you would still be as kind, as forgiving? Sometimes the world can make you or break you, and I believe jc was the latter. He agrees to participate in the siege, he was one of the most important gears in the siege.

Why. Did he hate wwx? Did he want to appease the sect leaders to save the Jiang Clan? Did he feel like he should end his brother on his own terms? I’m honestly not sure. There’s much speculation, It’s my own personal beliefs it’s a combination of politics due to the jins and also an anger that’s been building in jc for a VERY long time. I know in CQL he does force him to let go of lwj, but in the book…I’m curious.

What if Jiang Cheng got to Wei Wuxian first before anyone else. What would he say, what could he say? What would wwx say to him? Sometimes I think it would end as jc stabbing wwx and truly killing him. Sometimes, I wishfully think he couldn’t do it. But that’s very much up to everyone’s interpretation of Jc. At the end of this, I think of jc going back home after the siege carrying chenqing with him until he could finally rest.

I think he would just stare at it, too tired too numb to really do anything else. I think he’d get passed out drunk trying to maybe somehow sleep, and I think he’d have nightmares. God, I don’t write but I’d write a fic for this. Anyways ya sorry guys just some thoughts

[lancabbage]

I agree completely! There is a lot more to JC consenting, I just kept it brief.

But yes, even the extremely questionable circumstances around him obtain a golden core (blindfolded and so on as you mentioned above) are all forms of consent in the fact he did not ask questions at the moments he should have.

I personally like to give JC a little credit for not being completely dumb and noticing that even WWX's whole story behind him knowing where Baoshan Sanren resided all those years but never used this information until now was fabricated and he was so desperate to get his power back he ignored these glaringly obvious plot holes - but each to their own!

I just wish people would stop and read the text properly instead of making WWX out to be something he's not. WWX was traumatised by the massacre of his entire sect, while being haunted by the words both JFM and YZY spoke to him before they left. Feeling immense (misplaced) guilt and an obligation to repay a debt that was never his to pay in the first place. So he gave up his hard earned golden core thinking it was the only way he could fulfill JCs parents request and any 'debt' owed. It wasn't willfully given. WWX lost sleep over the whole thing, trying to convince himself he was doing the right thing, constantly reminding himself of his debt and promise to JCs parents.

Yet people twist the whole thing into something it was not.

If I see the ridiculous argument that WWX was bad for not giving JC a choice in the golden core transfer I'm just going to round everyone up and force them to read the novel properly - curing you of your stupidity, clockwork orange style.

JC consented to receiving a new golden core...

There are two ways in which he may have consented, depending on which way you want to believe JC acted, but he very much gave consent either way.

So WWX tells JC he knows where Baoshan Sanren is... You think JC is that DUMB he believes this?! You think the fact WWX knew he had a lifeline the whole time he was starving and fighting for his life on the street, he never once thought - I know, I'll go see Baoshan Sanren, she'll look after me. Or the whole time he was being treated like a lowly servant and whipped for the most insignificant of reasons?! Give me a break!!!

JC either knew this was a total lie and did not ask questions, because he wanted a golden core and he did not want to consider how, who or why. This was consent. WWX fed him a story that was obviously a lie and JC did not point this out - he just took it, because he was desperate to have power once more. He did not give a 💩 where it came from or any real details. THAT'S CONSENT.

And if you think that JC is stupid enough to believe the glaringly obvious lie, then he still consented in taking something from WWX either way. How? Hmmm well JC took the only thing WWXs mother ever left him, her own son, to use if he should need it. He took it with a second thought, without any hesitation for taking something so precious and poignant to WWX. Something that was not his to take. He took it without any humility or grace, without a single word of thanks to WWX. He posed as the very boy his vile mother abused, he posed as the son of the very woman his jealous mother hated - all without any shame. He was greedy and had no thought for WWX. He consented in taking something so precious, it might as well have been his golden core either way.

So either way, WWX received consent from JC.