#she reiterates that later in the series (s4? 5?) and i love that for her

[aardvaark]

And that actually is one of the bits that we wound up not being able to ever do quite as much as we want - is Parker picks locks like other people knit. And if you watch carefully in the pilot, in the foreground when they’re back in the apartment, she has a giant box of locks she’s picking. That’s just kind of her hobby.

-- John Rogers, episode commentary for The Wedding Job

[twdmusicboxmystery]

5 TD Things That Should Make You Excited for S9

Good morning! Okay, so today’s theory is kind of made of up several bits and pieces. Most come from Fear the other night or at least were kicked off that way. You’ll see what I mean. Me and my fellow theorists have been hard-core hashing out symbols all week, and we’re super-excited about these things.

They’re 1) Music, 2) Artwork, 3) Horses, 4) Numbers and, 5) um...more numbers.

So remember how I said I hadn’t gone into details about the art in Strand’s mansion or the music Luciana was listening to? Well, this has somewhat to do with all that.

 1. Luciana’s Music

So, I’ll start there. @wdway noticed that the final song we hear Luciana listening to (right before she hears Charlie in the house and chases her out) is a Roy Orbison song. That’s super-important, guys. The song Dwight played for Daryl in 7x03, The Cell, the one that made him cry, was by Roy Orbison as well. That song is called Crying. This one in Fear is called In Dreams.

So that’s the second time that has happened. And every time it has to do with Beth and Daryl. So we had Up the Wolves by The Mountain Goats that played in Still. Then they played another song by The Mountain Goats in 4x08 of Fear. Then we heard the Roy Orbison song in The Cell, and it was obvious to anyone who cared to look that that scene was very much about Beth for Daryl. Now we’re hearing another Roy Orbison song with Luciana in Fear.

And, I don’t even think I mentioned this in my analysis yesterday, but Luciana is being heavily paralleled with Daryl here. She’s lost the person she loves, her other half, and she’s deeply in mourning. She’s kind of dead inside, refusing to be part of the world, and would rather be alone in her dark place to mourn. Sound like Daryl? Especially in Them?

For the record, the other songs we hear are Let the Devil Pour the Wine by Peter Sivo Band and Baby I’ve Got It by King George and the Fabulous Souls. I think they both contain lyrics you could apply to Beth and Daryl (again, because Luciana has lost her other half, they’re using songs to show her state of mind, which mirror Daryl’s). But I’ll let you guys look at the lyrics to the other two.

 2. Artwork

Moving on. We’ve been looking more carefully at the painting Morgan stares at in the hallway. It’s called Landscape Inspired by the View of Frascati. A famous painting that apparently is in the Louvre. (Yeah, I totally didn’t know that.) At first, I thought it might be a caravan of people walking through the forest, and that it might represent Morgan’s coming journey to return to TF.

(Source)

Upon closer inspection, it actually looks more like a picnic. Something in the foreground of the clearing looks like it might be a blanket or basket, and there’s what looks like a minstrel on the other side of the river. So I think these people are preparing for a picnic. Of course I can’t help but be reminded of the picnic scene in 7x01.

But what really got me is the title. I googled it to try and find out more about the painting: what the inspiration was, what we know about it, etc. And guess what I found out? This really has very little to do with the painting itself, but does anyone want to guess what the “view of Frascati” is? Frascati is a small Italian town. So when you say, “the view from Frascati,” it suggests “what you can see from the town of Frascati.” So what is the view from Frascati? It’s Rome. The idea is, if you’re in Frascati, the view you can see…is ROME.

And remember how heavily they use Rome as a symbol in Up the Wolves. “Our mother has been absent ever since we founded Rome, but there’s gonna be a party when the wolf comes home.”

We haven’t see any major, in-your-face Rome symbolism since then, that I can remember. So if they’re now suggesting Rome again, I think the wolf is about to come home, y’all. ;D

3) Horses:

One horse to be exact. Credit for this one goes to @katkhaos. I didn’t even register that at the beginning of the episode, these walkers are chowing down on a dead horse. So of course there’s the Horse theory. Daryl = black horse, Beth = white horse (Horse Theory). So I had to sit and think about what this would mean. I honestly think it’s an extension of the Buttons symbolism from 5x12.

To start, I’ve also started to think that the horse, specifically, represents being alone. Of course there’s Buttons. Daryl pretty much told him Buttons was an allegory for him. Buttons had a home to go to if he wanted it (Aaron was trying to bring him into Alexandria) but he didn’t want it. He would rather be on his own in the wild. Exactly like Daryl. But Buttons taught Daryl that if he didn’t accept help and try to be civilized and part of a home and a community, he would die, just like Buttons.

For the record, the white horse (Beth) is slightly different. That horse (in 6x16) was alone on the outside as well, but not by choice. In that case, we eventually learned the white horse belonged to what’s-his-name from the Kingdom. This horse was separated from its home and family, but not because it wanted to be. It simply got lost. Kinda like Beth. (Sidenote: who found that horse? Morgan! Yea!)

I think it’s safe to say that this horse in Fear was alone. Perhaps one of the walkers we see was it’s owner, but once the owner died, it was alone anyway. And just like Buttons, because it was alone, it eventually died and become walker chow. 

So, a group of walkers is eating this horse. You could simply label that a callback to S5. (Buttons happened right after Daryl lost Beth and got to Alexandria—which incidentally MIGHT be Rome). But it’s also reiterating that those on their own on the outside will end up dead eventually. I’m sure that applies to Morgan’s group and what we’re now calling Team Fear Family (TFF) as well. I think they’ll eventually agree to go with Morgan and become part of TF and their communities.

 4. Strand’s Numbers

We aren’t positive about what Strand’s ‘61/’66 La Tour points to, but @katkhaos suggested something I really liked. She went back and looked at issues 61 and 66 of the comic books, and what she found was that issue they sort of bookend the arc of Fear the Hunters (in the TV show, that would be Terminus.) 

So issue 61 included material from The Grove and Strangers. So end of s4/beginning of s5. Issue 66 ends the Fear the Hunters arc. It has material we saw in the show from Four Walls and a Roof. The next issue (67) has a small time jump. So the observation she made was that Beth’s entire S5 arc happens within the material between issues 61 an 66 of the CBs, if that makes sense. Maybe this is a way of showing that those issues kind of book-ended her arc, and maybe with the coming time jump, in S9, we’ll finally move into the next part of her arc? Let’s hope so.

Which brings me to the next thing. This is something we talked about before Fear 4x09 aired, so it’s slightly different, but Strand’s 6s reminded me of it. 

5) Numbers in Them that may point to S9:

Let’s go back to this scene in Them, 5x10:

Remember Maggie asks, “How much longer we got?” Sasha answers, “60 miles.” We’ve all tried so hard to force these numbers to make sense. Did it mean Beth would return in 6 episodes? No. In season 6? Not so much. So what then? Well, enough time has passed that we might just have answer.

@wdway suggested this one. She noticed that Them, 5x10 is episode #61 (that’s overall episodes for all seasons of the entire series). So episodes from Them would, obviously, be episode #121. Guess which episode that will be? It will be episode 9x06. Right around the time everyone keeps saying Rick is going to “die”.

Now, I’ve said before that I think he may not die until the MSF. We simply don’t know. But if I turn out to be wrong about that and he really does go in 9x06, that will be exactly 60 episodes after Sasha said they had 60 miles left. If he does go in 9x06, no way that’s a coincidence.

Keep in mind that Sasha said that RIGHT after Beth was shot. 5x09 was, in many ways a kind of detour. We didn’t see anyone mourning for Beth until 5x10. It was put off so they could detour to Shirewilt. But can it possibly be a coincidence that Right after she’s shot, in the episode where we see Daryl mourning her so heavily and the music box wake up, we are told they have 60 miles to go, and then exactly 60 episodes later, Rick “dies,” at which time the “new sheriff” should take over?

See how neatly that works out?

And I’m just now thinking this, but 5x09 is the opposite of 9x05. I don’t know if that’s the first episode we’ll see Beth in, or if she’ll appear before that. But especially if that’s the first episode Daryl/TF sees her in, it will be sort of the opposite of 5x09, which was the last one she appeared in. (Uh, sort of. We did see Sasha flashback to her in 5x13, but that was a flashback to Grady; not exactly new episode material, so I’m discounting it here.)

Anyway, this has me all hopped up and excited for S9. Anyone else? ;D

Also special thanks to @frangipanilove, M-Nonny, and others who helped us hash these out. 

[baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

ALRIGHTY it’s review time! I’ve finally finished RTTE Season 4 and MAN was I pleased. A vast improvement from the last two, much closer to the first season in quality and good enough that I think it could edge towards canon. From what I’ve seen from the fandom, there’s still a lot of controversy-- some people loved it and some still hated it. I have SO MUCH I could say about it, especially since a lot of the plot lines are continued from season 3 (which I did not finish, due to extreme annoyance and disappointment), but this will already be a long post with me condensing my thoughts. I tried narrowing it down to some of my favorite parts and some of my least favorite parts, but all in all, it was a fantastic season. If this is what the writing team can do, consider my expectations raised. So without further ado:

Cat’s Top 5 Best and Worst of RTTE S4

Best of the best

5. While the overall quality of the season was amped up, there were a few small shining stars that definitely excited me. The first is Ruffnut... who finally seems to be rounding out as a character! We get a lot of comedy relief from the twins and chicken, and this season was no different. Macey’s viking funeral cracked me up. But what I loved most was the way the twins seemed to grow. Especially Ruffnut. We get to see her trusting her intuition in Gruff Around the Edges, recognizing that her brother had been misplaced before anyone else. We get to learn from her interaction with Gruffnut that she values humility and honesty. And then later, in Twintuition, it’s Ruffnut that urges her twin to prioritize the dragon riders over Macey. It’s Ruffnut that humorously and bravely stands up to Viggo in his interrogation. They’re small steps for the twins, especially Ruff, but I think this season has been more characterization than any season so far.

4. My next favorite part was a little bit of a selfish, fangirlish kind of pleasure. We got to see Hiccup in tight black leather. I almost didn’t include this in my faves because it’s such a ridiculous little thing, but it made my heart do a pitter patter. Why? Because we’ve never seen Hiccup in black leather, but how much have we as a fandom loved to read and write about Hiccup in black leather? I can think of a few fics off the top of my head, including my own Sacrifice AU. There’s just something so dark and mature about putting Hiccup in black-- it takes him from our scrawny noodle cinnamon roll to a mysterious, vigilante sinnamon roll. It allows the imagination to play with ideas that we as a fandom (and, selfishly, me as a writer) never expected to get to see on screen. It’s not something I thought we’d get from our Y-7 show. And it’s not just the leather, it’s his demeanor sometimes. The tension and angst, the occasional ruthlessness, the table flipping, my goodness! Our baby Hiccup is growing from a noodley family-friendly dork to an actual young man with emotions that aren’t watered down by the PG rating. I didn’t think all of his outbursts were 100% in character, but at least for the most part, we’re getting some characterization that fits the tone of the first and second movies.

3. The last three of my five faves were-- I’m sure expectedly-- related to the Hiccstrid. Gods alive, it’s about time, right? For a couple of years now we’ve been impatiently waiting for the romantic development. Not just as squealing shippers who love a good romance, but as fans who respect the timeline of the canon movies. After season three, I’d started to give up hope, but S4 brought it back for me. I could do a whole post alone about the Hiccstrid, but for now I’ll mention my #3. I loved the riders’ reactions to the couple. Was it realistic that Fishlegs caught them kissing and thought-- strategy meeting? No. Was it goofy that the twins thought either Astrid and Hiccup were dying? Of course. And was Snotlout’s gambling theory totally out there? By Thor, yes. But I loved every minute of it. I loved the silliness, the obliviousness. My boyfriend and I died laughing at the twelve-step program line, and at every comment Tuffnut made about Hiccup’s frailness. It was light, it was fun, and I think it was super appropriate for the series. In my headcanon, I’ll probably keep  a more mature take on it, but I think using a comedic approach was the best way for the writers to handle it.

4. I loved Blindsided. Which is where, I think, most of the fandom divides. You either adored it or you hated it. I have just one thing I didn’t like about it-- I thought it wrapped up too quickly. Other than that, I thought it was one of the strongest episodes for Astrid’s characterization in the whole series. Like Ruffnut, she kind of gets shafted so far as real plot focus goes. She’s too often shoved in the boiling cauldron in a volcano with Throk, too often the damsel in distress. Always falling off of something, always nearly getting hit by something. This episode was the first time that I didn’t roll my eyes and say, “Here we go again.” Because it didn’t just toss in a knight in shining armor moment for Hiccup. We saw Astrid lose her edge, her confidence, and then spit her self-consciousness in the face. My absolute favorite part of the season, even more than the kisses, was when Astrid jumps into combat with the Triple Strike and Hiccup sighs, “Of course she’s not going to hide. What was I thinking? She’s Astrid.”

The whole episode was just unapologetically her. It had her stubbornness, her wittiness, her relationship with Stormfly. We saw her be vulnerable without being a damsel, saw her take on danger despite a disadvantage. And we got a situation where Hiccup and Astrid were forced into close but casual physical proximity. Not just the “oops I fell on top of you” trope, but Hiccup guiding Astrid, her reaching for him. Why is that important? Because for the RTTE hiccstrid that they wrote, the two are very teenagery. Can’t be close or touching, because omg we’re just friends. But this kind of put them into a situation where I think they could subconsciously recognize how natural and comforting each other’s touch is. We see hand-holding, close contact, Hiccup sitting by her bedside (”until she falls asleep”, wink wink), and Astrid holding tight to him during flight. The biggest complaint I’ve heard is that the hiccstrid was rushed, but I think this episode is the biggest evidence that it isn’t (comparatively speaking). We get a few nods of hiccstrid in the first few episodes, but once Blindsided happens, it’s all bets are off. They realize how easy it is, how heart-pounding and real their relationship has become. That there will always be a Hiccup and Astrid. It’s not just a childhood flirtation anymore, it’s a bond that’s been long forming. And I think her blindness in this episode did a great job of showing her off as a warrior, but it also did a lot to connect the bridge from friends to more-than.

5. The one thing I did have an issue with, hiccstrid wise, was all the random setup the writers did in the last couple of episodes. What they were trying to do was position everything for Viggo to make Hiccup choose between Astrid and his passion for the dragons. But we had Hiccup and Astrid say, “Sorry I got so worked up” and “I just can’t focus when you’re in trouble”, but we never actually saw them getting worked up or losing focus because of the other being in danger. I thought that was weird and a little poorly executed. BUT while I didn’t like how it was set up, and while I thought that it was cheesy that once again Astrid was captured by the villain, I loved the way Viggo mentioned the future. I think his exact words were, “Are you really going to sacrifice your future-- all the wonderful years you have ahead of you-- for that?”

I mean, holy crap! Do you get any better foreshadowing from a group of writers? The villain calls Astrid his future, and Hiccup doesn’t blink twice. He doesn’t amend the statement, or go off on a tangent about protecting the dragons. That said, how did Viggo know what was going on with Hiccup and Astrid when the gang hardly did? But whatever, I thought it was a very poignant way of confirming that this is the same couple from the sequel that are clearly headed for marriage and a forever kind of love. They didn’t pansy dance around it or treat it like the new relationship that it-- at a glance-- is. They knew that hiccstrid saw each other as end game and they treated it as such.

And the worst...

1. Season four wasn’t without its flaws. There were a couple of spots where the writing was a little rushed, a couple where it was a little lazy. But as opposed to the past couple of seasons, which had one or two good episodes in a sea of awful, this season just had a few episodes that fell flat for me. One of those was Notlout. Question: How many times have we seen Spitelout be a jerk to his son? A thousand. How many times have we seen Snotlout react by being bullheaded and reckless? A thousand. I felt like Notlout was just this season’s reiteration of the same typical Snotlout-centric episode that they do almost every go around. Spitelout says something nigh treasonous, Snoutlout gets insecure, the gang and their missions are thrown into shambles because of his need to lead, and in the end he realizes that the team does value him after all. We get it. It wasn’t a bad episode or anything, but it’s so repetitive and unnecessary at this point. Would have much rather seen more of the twins or Berk.

2. Episode two that I really disliked-- The Longest Day. I thought it was silly. Apparently this week or whatever of sunlight is not unusual for Berk, so why was everyone so rattled and unsure of how to behave? Why did everyone just decide to stay up for 24, 48, 96 hours instead of boarding up windows and sleeping? That’s what people who actually live so close to the north pole do. And why on Thor’s flat earth would Hiccup send the riders home to “do something easy” and wash their dragons instead of getting some sleep in the first place? If you’re going to take a cultural event like the sunny and dark seasons of the north as inspiration, actually let your fictional nation utilize realistic means of coping. It was ridiculous and completely blown out of proportion. Frankly just bad. Sleeplessness causes silliness and moodiness and clumsiness, yes, but the extremes they took it to was really a mockery of the characters, in my opinion. It wasn’t funny, it was badly written. Did not enjoy it at all.

3. That was actually not my least favorite episode, though. The one that had me scowling at the screen and rolling my eyes and sighing with exasperation was Out of the Frying Pan. Could there be anything worse than dumbed down plot and terrible resolution? I’ll just make a list of things that were absurd. Hiccup and Fishlegs being stunned that they don’t think exactly the same. An uneccessarily difficult goal-line of a mysterious hatching ground in the middle of a volcano. The Eruptodon not being able to fly the egg to the mysterious hatching ground even though it’s been able to do so for a millennia of generations. HIccup, dragon master, thinking a NIght Fury was better suited for a lava-filled volcano. The fact that once he tried and failed, their first thought wasn’t immediately oh let’s try Fishlegs’ way. The necessity of Hiccup going with Legs and Mala into the volcano. The impatience of Throk and Astrid, which led to the idiotic idea of swinging a GIANT METAL CAULDRON over an active volcano with-- what-- a rope? Mala being so freaking one track minded, instead of humanizing her with some doubt or fear. The giant metal bowl tarzanning across the volcano. The damsel in distress moment where Astrid is fainting from the heat. Have I mentioned the giant cauldron in the lava??? LITERALLY nothing special about the lava in the hatching chamber. They could have chucked the damn egg into the lava pit and it would have been just fine. So many plot holes, so much lazy writing, such poor characterization. I was incredibly worried that the season had just taken a page out of season 3′s book. The only redeeming moment of the episode was where the mama Eruptodon was magically revived by some dank herbs from Throk.

4. The only real failure I found in the over-arcing plot lines (not the individual plot lines of each episode) was just how quickly the whole Viggo and Ryker thing was wrapped up. For such an adversary, they were disposed of a little casually. Ryker I guess was eaten by the whirlpool of lunch. Even though he and his crew have been shipwrecked a dozen times over the series and always seem to magically make it out alive. And then Viggo is expected to be this big mental combatant, but suddenly he’s chucked into a weird basement hole (instead of killed by his supposedly brutal brother?) and we have this back and forth of will he betray us? maybe not? oh yeah, he’s definitely backstabbing us? Nevermind haha he’s chucking a knife into the ocean. If we hadn’t had such a tease with whether or not Viggo was on the dragon riders’ side, it would have had much more of an impact when he actually did take Astrid hostage and demand the dragon eye. They set up the betrayal between the brothers well, with various scathing comments from Viggo in the approaching episodes, but the whole thing was a little confusing and rushed. In the end, Viggo falls into the volcano (at least he didn’t jump into a cast iron fishbowl), and we’re led to assume that he’s doneso. Maybe he lived? Maybe not? I think they were trying to be poetic with him jumping after the dragon eye, but it just came off a little poorly executed.

5. And that brings me to my last point. I needed more episodes! This season took me back to the first. It was exciting and fun, but there was also real emotion from the characters and real peeks into how they operate. We got the group using teamwork, Hiccup becoming a leader, the politics and dangers of dragon poaching, and a few hilarious moments in between. Like I said, there are a few weak points to the season, but it was a much stronger and much more satisfying set of episodes. We got to see a lot more realness from the teens, and finally finally some Hiccstrid that could be considered canon (if you squint at their ages). Even the Dagur and Heather side story didn’t annoy me (Why? Because they weren’t flat mary sues with traumatic backstories blah blah blah), which says a lot. Over all, this season did what it was supposed to-- it amused me, got me invested, and made me hungry for more. It made me impatient for season five, which is such a different emotion than what I was feeling at the end of season three. Now I’m sucked back in and all I can do is wait with bated breath.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

2017 Re-Watch: 6x14 - Twice as Far

Check out last year’s re-watch HERE.

Okay, SUPER important episode here. Denise's death was a retelling of Beth's, and it's what made us realize that Denise was a proxy of Beth at all. Before, though we saw parallels, we didn't realize just how heavy a proxy Denise was. It wasn't until after this episode that I went back and looked at earlier stuff with Denise (like being taken captive by CWD) and realized that was probably all a foreshadow of Beth.

So we have the beginning and ending sequence. I talk about it in detail HERE. For now, let's just say that we see the same thing 3x at the beginning. Rule of 3s, but could also represent the 3-season arc of S4-S7. Then, at the end, we see the sequence again, but it's changed. In other words, it's a coda, or different, second ending.

We have figurine parallels here, and Carol says, "You saved them, right?" which is exactly what she said to him about Beth in Consumed.

I also noticed that after they talk by his bike, Carol leaves the pack of cigarettes for him. I almost feel like that was her goodbye. He didn't pick up on it, of course, though he can obviously tell she's dealing with things. Once again, neither Daryl or Carol is noticing much what is going on with the other person, just as she didn't notice he got his bike back. They're just too wrapped up in their own grief and other issues.

Another 8 I noticed. We see Carol's ash tray. On a whim, I counted the cigarettes. There are 7. 

Then it shows Carol and she has another one in her hand. That would be her 8th cigarette. Hmm.

When Daryl, Rosita, and Denise head out, there are some interesting things. They pass some STOP signs, which is a sign we've seen a lot. Of course there are the train tracks, which are a big part of the plot here. I always say the tracks represent death and, sure enough, Denise dies on them.

There's a fallen tree blocking their ways. Here's something interesting. We don't see it as much with Daryl's group, but when we see Abraham and Eugene, it's obviously raining. The last storm we saw--which included fallen trees--was in 5x10, just before the music box woke up. This storm isn't nearly that big and it doesn't affect the plot nearly so much, but again, this is a retelling, and the storm is, I’m sure, significant. Plus, if the tree hadn't fallen, they would have driven to the apothecary and back, which means they probably wouldn't have encountered Dwight and Denise wouldn't have died. So the tree did affect the plot somewhat.

The license plate of the truck reads 472 477L. I haven't looked at comic book issues with this, but there's a lot of paired 4s and 7s, which may show the arc span from s4-s7. S8 begins the new arc.

I noticed that when Denise asked Rosita who taught her to fight, and she got self-conscious about it because it was Abraham and they just broke up, she tells Denise. "A lot of people taught me a lot of things. Years from now, he'll just be a name in a long list of names.

So a couple of things there. To me, it kind of equates to the fact that they don't say Beth's name. I feel like it's part of the same theme. Rosita won't say Abraham's name right now, because she's obviously not over the breakup. But she knows one day, years from now, she will be. So that reiterates the fact that they don't say the name when they're still feeling the pain of the loss.

Couple of parallels I noticed this time that I don't think had ever occurred to me before (or I just forgot). Maybe they occurred to others. I don't know.

Rosita finds booze and asks if there are any takers. Neither Denise or Daryl takes her up on it. And we don't think much about Daryl saying no because Denise takes the lead, saying her parents were big on booze, which is why she isn't. I'll come back to that.

I made this edit a long time ago. It just struck me that we've never seen Beth drink with anyone but Daryl. Same here. Just like Beth at Grady, he was offered booze, but didn't want it. And who was the last person he drank with? Beth. 

All together now: Awwww.

Back to Denise not being big on booze? She says her parent were alcoholics, so she'd never been big on drinking. Um, who else was that specific thing true of? Beth. Hershel was an alcoholic as a young man and wouldn't allow booze in the house. There was that deleted scene from Still where Beth tells Daryl she couldn't even hold a solo cup at parties because she felt guilty or was afraid Hershel would see it and think she was drinking, even if she wasn't. Anyway, my point is, yet another extremely on-the-nose Denise/Beth parallel.

Lots of symbols in the apothecary: Glasses (Beth's Blindness) and even the fact that Denise wears glasses/has vision problems. In this episode, after killing the walker from the car, she pukes and says, "I puked on my glasses." So they really called attention to them here. There are also shirts on racks in the apothecary that look just like the shirts at the golf club.

We see pictures of children, and then the disturbing  back room where someone with a cast on their leg obviously killed a child. This room is still really intriguing to me. I don't think we've entirely seen the fulfillment of what it means. On the one hand, the darkness of it was obviously a foreshadow of her impending death.

But it’s REALLY similar to the one Beth saw on the train tracks in Inmates. So we have the lost shoe, all the child/baby symbolism around Beth, and then there's the fact that there's a sink full of water. I think the idea is that the adult (the walker) drowned the baby *shudders* which is what freaked Denise out so much. But it's still a water reference in conjunction with the shoe and Denise, who's a massive Beth proxy.

Okay, other Denise/Beth Parallels:

1. She protected herself, with Daryl standing close by, just like Beth did at the golf club.

2. I kind of hate to say this, because people (haters) will say it means Beth and Daryl had a brother/sister relationship. And they DIDN'T! But this still occurred to me while watching this. Denise talks to Daryl about her brother, and he compares him to Merle. But right before she dies, Denise says to Daryl, "I asked you to come with me because you're really brave and you make me feel safe." It reminded me of when Beth also talked to Daryl about her brother. She said, "I miss my big brother Shawn. He was so annoying and overprotective."

She says it with affection, but if you read between the lines, he probably made her feel safe too. And I've said this before but, despite crushing on Daryl in S3 (edit), I don't think Beth ever thought they'd have a romantic relationship. She probably figured Daryl would never notice her or think about her that way. She liked him, but kind of resigned herself to just having a crush on him and nothing would ever come of it. I honestly think that's what the "Oh," was about. She was genuinely surprised he'd developed feelings for her. Not that she did or didn't reciprocate. It was just unexpected.

Anyway, I’m rambling. But my point is that Beth talked to Daryl about her brother too, and maybe part of the reason she wanted to feel close to him so much in the beginning (4x01) is because he was someone that made her feel safe. She said as much to Carol in S3 when she said the group was weak without him, and she was pissed that he left.

3. Even though their relationship wasn't romantic, Denise and Daryl start off with awkward interactions and later make a deeper connection, just like Beth and Daryl.

4. Both Beth and Denise received a single shot to the head.

5. And of course Daryl had similar reactions to their deaths.

There's a red car behind Daryl after Denise is shot. (Red Car Parallels)/(Red Object Symbolism)

Dwight says, "She wasn't even who I was aiming for," which I also think could be a Beth thing, assuming her shooting was accidental and someone was really aiming for Dawn.

I've said this recently, but I still think the ending of this episode is one of the saddest in the entire series. First the sweet, sad song about "almost" getting married after Denise dies. And then Carol and Daryl burying her in the cemetery. Just. So. Stinkin. Tragic.

Carol once again calls back to S4 with her voice over. She talks about Rick kicking her out of the prison, which happened in 4a, and how she should have left a long time ago. She talks about how she can't love anyone because she can't kill for anyone else. All of that reiterates what I said about her arc HERE.

And then we have a blond woman carting weapons around Alexandria for some unknown reason. Probably a foreshadow of Beth being TF's "weapon" against the saviors.

Let's talk Eugene briefly. I'm going to do a short Eugene meta tomorrow and it's important to understand a few things from this episode.

Every part of Eugene's arc in this episode was a foreshadow for him. During S7, when he told Negan to put molten metal over the walker's heads to make them better fence guards, I immediately thought of this episode. He and Abe see a walker with metal over it's head, and it was obviously a foreshadow of Eugene's time with Negan.

Watching this time, I realize it's much bigger than just that (when is it not?). At this part, Eugene says he's ready and can survive on his own, but when the walker comes, he doesn't manage to kill it. Abraham has to do it for him. Then they quarrel, and Abraham takes off, leaving Eugene behind. At some point after that, that we don't see, Dwight gets a hold of Eugene and has him captive already when he shoots Denise.

Abraham is hiding behind some barrels and Eugene tells the saviors that to cause a diversion, which results in Daryl's group (minus Denise, who is already dead) being able to defeat Dwight's group and get away.

Now let's look at 6x16/S7. In 6x16, Eugene helps get Maggie to Hilltop by doing something really brave: driving the RV. He HAS become enough of a survivor to do that. Then what happens? Abraham leaves him (they split up with only Eugene staying in the RV) and then Eugene is captured by the Saviors. This is the second time this scenario happens. Then it happens a third time in a big way. What's the biggest way Abraham leaves Eugene? He dies, leaving Eugene without his protection.

Some time after that, Eugene is taken to the Sanctuary by Negan. And it was even a result of the bullet factory which was introduced in this episode. Remember that Eugene was not successful without Abraham's help either of the first two times. And what happens when he's at the Sanctuary? He turns, "becomes" Negan.

This is actually a very Shakespearean theme, employed in Hamlet. It's like Eugene really only has any hope of surviving with Abraham's help, and Abraham is dead now. It doesn't bode well for Eugene.

The other thing we can take from this is that there’s a rule of threes going on. This arc was repeated 3x before Abraham’s death. It may be because he’s a Beth proxy, but I have a sneaking hunch this is probably true of most or all characters. Main ones, anyway. But the point is that most of the possible 3s in Beth’s arc haven’t been fulfilled yet. They set them up, then stopped before the arcs had finished. Which means she has farther to go.

However. In this sequence, Eugene does use his head (his best weapon) to help the group he's with overcome the Saviors, and is injured in the process. I've said it before, but I think this is a foreshadow of future events. It's very Sampson-ish, which is what Maggie calls him in 5x05. So chances are this will happen again. Eugene will redeem himself by helping TF overthrow Negan in some way, but where he was only injured here, he'll die the next time. Just like Sampson did.

So I just wanted to point that out. More on Eugene and how he relates to Beth tomorrow.

That's all for 6x14. Thoughts?

Relevant Posts:

6x14: First Thoughts 04/20/2016

6x14: Denise Analysis 03/21/2016

6x14: Eugene, Train Tracks, end of Reset 03/22/2016

6x14: Repeating Motifs 03/21/2016

6x14: Coda and the Opening Sequence 03/23/2016

6x14: Danville Bridge, More Evidence of Where This is Going 03/31/2016

6x14: More Symbols to Consider 04/01/2016

[twdmusicboxmystery]

The 5 Theory

Good morning and Happy Saturday! Hope everyone has some fun plans.

So I’m actually super excited about this theory. It makes so much sense and reinforces what we already believe about Beth returning in S8. Full creds to @wdway for this one. In this case, I really didn’t add much (except enthusiastic applause, of course. ;D)

So here’s the thing: we’ve seen lots of 5s in the background of the show, especially during S5 episodes. I’ve always said it just points to the season they’re in. And I still think that’s true to a certain extent. But then, a lot of Gimple’s symbols have double meanings.

For example, in this first scene in Slabtown when Beth first wakes up, if you notice the clock behind Dawn, it reads 5:20, which proves our clock theory. The clock points to episode 5x04, which this is.

But it’s SO much more complicated than that. Beth’s time at Grady is spent on the 5th floor, and we constantly see room numbers in the 500s in the background. Again, it could all just point to this being S5, but why the overkill? And not all the numbers are ONLY 5s. There are other numbers included.

Meanwhile, we’ve also seen fives since then, in S6, at least. Probably some in S7 as well, though I’m not going to remember every instance off the top of my head. I’ve also said before that symbolism always points forward, rather than back. So how to do all these things jive? Why put 5s in later seasons to point backward?

Well, even before this theory I could have answered that. I do believe all symbolism points forward, but in this case, it’s okay to use the 5s because Beth will be back. If they’re pointing us back toward S5, there must be a reason. Something that’s still relevant. And we believe that is Beth being alive, right?

Well, @wdway wasn’t satisfied with this explanation (and I’m so glad she wasn’t). She started messing around with the numbers, trying to figure out what ELSE all the 5s mean besides just S5 and it’s importance. And she realized something.

Gimple took over and, for all intents and purposes, started Beth’s arc in S4, right? (Yes, she was in S2 and S3, but she only had a small arc in S2 and had very small part in S3. Nothing major. Nothing that was hers alone. In 4x01, she came front and center with the Bethyl hug.)

I’d also like to point out that S4 is when all the foreshadowing and parallels began. Yeah, we can look back at earlier seasons and see where things began or were built on, but the instant S4 began we already had tons of clues. Clues in Beth’s cell, clues at the Big Spot, Sasha/Ty/Bob stuff, and by 4b, they were already heavily paralleling Glenn, Rick, school buses, etc. We didn’t see anything to that extent in earlier seaosns. So S4 was really the beginning of Beth’s (and many of the other characters’) current arc.

So take a look at this:

S4 =1, S5=2, S6=3, S7=4, S8=5.

Could it be that all the fives actually point to S8? That it’s not a season number at all, but rather the number of seasons from the beginning of the arc until all the symbolism is fulfilled?

I love this idea. It wouldn’t have worked for S6 or S7. Only S8.

Now let’s look at some specific numbers.

We’ve seen a LOT of clocks that read 5:10. There are three in particular that come to mind: Rick’s watch when Carol finds it at Terminus, reads 5:10. 

Then there’s all the clocks in 5x09. Seriously, EVERY clock in that episode points to 5:10. 

And then there’s Glenn’s watch in 6x03, right before his death fake out. There are probably more, but let’s talk about the clocks.

We have ample evidence that the hour on the clocks = the season number and the minute hand = the episode number. So if that’s the case, these clocks really all point to 5x02. And that makes no sense. While there is some TD symbolism to be found in 5x02, there’s not enough that’s significant enough to Beth’s arc for SO many clocks, especially after the fact, to point back to it. Why would Gimple do this?

We’ve always seen these clocks as pointing to 5x10. Even though I’ve always known that doesn’t entirely fit the pattern, I’ve always accepted it because 1) symbols often have multiple meanings/interpretations and 2) 5x10 = music box. So we’re really not imagining that. It’s SUPER important. So I was always cool with it deviating from the clock pattern a little bit.

But with this 5 theory, 5 is actually the fifth season from when Beth’s current arc started. It shows we had to go 5 seasons before seeing the fulfillment of the symbolism. So if we substitute an 8 for the 5, suddenly, this clock points at 8x02. And guys, look at where we see these clocks. 1) After Carol is separated from TF, and then saves and reunites with them. 2) In Ty’s death hallucination, which is rife with Beth symbolism and all kinds of contradictions. Where Beth herself appears and “keeps singing” even after her death. 3) Right before Glenn’s death fake out, which had a crap-ton of parallels to Beth. He was revealed to be alive a few episodes later.

Pretty convincing if you ask me. We’ve also seen some 101s, though not as many, which also point to 8x02 as being a super important episode.

@wdway even pointed out that in 5x09, Beth was there in the hallucination, but not physically. That’s also true of 5x10 and the music box. She’s there symbolically, but not literally. So perhaps the 5 = S5 being her physical arc, and S8 (five seasons in) we’ll see her physically again.

Other random 5s:

There’s one on the bus in 5x05. With all the bus stuff we’ve noticed this time around, I think it’s safe to say we’ll see the bus fulfillment in S8.

There’s a 5 on a pipe in 5x07 when Rick and Daryl are discussing the plan to rescue Beth and Carol from Grady. So maybe it shows that the real rescue/reunion won’t happen until the 5th season (S8).

I know in 6x01, we saw a sign that said, “Quint,” which means five. It also happens to mean some of the equipment (the ladder, I think, which is also significant) of a fire truck. But once again, there are some suspicious sequences in 6x01 during Operation Lead the Walkers Away that point to Beth stuff. And we have the Quint sign.

Here’s a great one that @wdway found in S6. In 6x10, when Rick and Daryl first meet Jesus, there are some numbers (cigarette prices) on the marquee behind them. It reads 5.45 and 5.69. I know there’s been a lot of speculation about what these numbers mean. Most have to do with comic book numbers, which is important. And applying this theory to them makes it even better.

See, if you put the 5 aside for a minute, CB issue #45 is where Andrea wakes up from her gunshot wound to the head, and finds herself alone, without the rest of TF, because they presumed she was dead and left her behind. Issue #69 is where TF arrives at Alexandria.

I know people zeroed in on the numbers as being CB numbers before, but the 5s are harder to explain. Nobody woke up from a GSW in S5 (that we know of; of course there’s the music box, but no one that the GA would know about or that we obviously saw). And while TF did arrive at Alexandria in S5, why would they feel the need to reiterate that in 6x10 when Rick and Daryl meet Jesus?

But let’s swap out the 5s for 8s. Perhaps this then shows that in S8, the person who survived the GSW, like Andrea, will both wake up, and arrive at Alexandria. Make sense?

We have numbers in Coda that point to 8x03 and 8x04 once you swap them out with the 8.

Slabtown has some interesting ones too. We see the numbers 550 and 556 very clearly. 

@wdway did some research I wanted to include here. The CB issue numbers pan out, and obviously there are only 16 episodes in a season, so she started looking at the series numbers. Episode 50 was Us. Like 5x02, while there is some Beth stuff to be found there (*coughs Daryl claims the strawberries*) there really isn’t tons in that episode for it to be point there. So instead of 50, she chopped the final number off and they both point to 55. Episode 55 is Slabtown. Interesting right? Which means episode 56, just to be thorough, is Self Help with all the bus stuff, including the number 5 on the bus. Also, that’s when they acquire the fire truck. Just saying.

So the series numbers from Slabtown point us toward episode 5x04 (Slabtown) and 5x05 (Self Help). If we swap out the numbers, that becomes 8x04 and 8x05.

Are we seeing how this works? I’m absolutely sure there are tons of more instances of 5s throughout the show, and I’ll continue to look for them as I rewatch. Like I said at the beginning, I won’t remember every instance.

But if the 5s point, not only to S5 but to S8, which is five seasons after the arc began, that makes way more sense than them JUST pointing us back to S5. And most of the cases we’ve examined specifically point to 8x01-8x05, which include the episodes Gimple already said would melt our brains.

The evidence is stacking up, my friends. Is it October yet?