#she also knows she’s about to her outed as a darkfriend

[moghedien]

Hi hello, about to go to bed thinking about the fact that they’ve already established that Liandrin is willing to use compulsion on high ranking Aes Sedai, the last time we saw her with Aes Sedai was when she was talking to Siuan, and Lanfear made sure she had nothing left to lose in Tar Valon

[nervouspearl]

So um...maybe I went a little unhigned after watching episode 2.07 and wrote a whole piece about how it could make sense for Siuan to believe that Moiraine (and Lan?) have turned to the dark?

First of all, I should preface this by saying that I don’t 100% believe that this is what happened, or that this is the thought progress Siuan went through, but it seems at least plausible? Many have suggested that seeing Moiraine channel is what made Siuan believe that she could be a darkfriend, and that would explain Siuan enforcing the sacred oath despite Moiraine's pleas, but it didn’t sit right with me as the only explanation because Moiraine never directly told her that she was stilled, and therefore did not directly lie to Siuan about it.

But taking a few steps back and looking at the whole episode, and even the previous episode, and considering the possibility that the seed of doubt had been sown in Siuan from the moment Lan told her Moiraine had been stilled for months, it started to make more sense to me how the episode could unfold the way it did. Maybe I’m giving more credit to the writers than what they deserve and this is not what really happened at all, but it was an interesting thought experiment to go through.

Now, starting from episode 6. Siuan has been corresponding with Moiraine for 6 months after the Eye of the World, and not once has Moiraine even hinted at being stilled. Lan then appears out of the blue one night to stop her carriage, telling her that Moiraine has been stilled ever since taking Rand to the Eye of the World.

Now, that simply does not compute for Siuan. Her and Moiraine keep secrets from everyone else but never from each other. For 20 years they have shared this mission and the Moiraine she knows would not keep something so big from her, or so she had thought. 

So what does mean for Siuan? Either Moiraine has been stilled for six months and she hasn’t said anything to Siuan about it, or something even more sinister happened at the Eye of the World and the Dark One somehow got to Moiraine.

For the first time in her life, Siuan has to seriously doubt Moiraine, and by extension she also has to doubt Lan: because why is Lan the one to tell her that Moiraine has been stilled? If it’s a lie, of course it makes sense to send Lan to tell it, because if Moiraine herself was caught in a lie, it would immediately be obvious that she has broken the three oaths.

And so Siuan arrives in Cairhien, with 14 Aes Sedai in tow, because she doesn’t know what she is dealing with and whether she is entering a trap or not. She needs to see Moiraine, alone, to determine where they stand, but she can’t go there without reinforcements and a back-up plan.

It’s telling that she doesn’t disclose to the other Aes Sedai why they are there. As she tells Liandrin: “We’ll have to wait and see.” Even Siuan isn’t sure at this point what she will need the 14 Aes Sedai for, if for anything other than show. It will depend on her meeting with Moiraine.

Then she meets Moiraine, and immediately opens with “Why didn’t you tell me? Why didn’t you tell me you’d been stilled?” because that’s what it all boils down to.

She desperately wants to believe Moiraine and needs to hear her explain why she has not communicated this monumental thing to her before, but she finds Moiraine distant and defensive. They are alone but Moiraine isn’t talking to her. She is avoiding answering anything and is in fact countering Siuan’s questions with questions of her own (an effective way to avoid having to lie) and no matter how closely Siuan is looking (and she is looking very closely) she cannot glean the answers from Moiraine that she’s looking for.

As a last resort, she approaches Moiraine and tries to directly appeal to the love they share, the mission they share together and Moiraine visibly flinches under her touch before surrendering to it.

The change that has happened in Siuan's expression by the end of the “interview” is noticeable:

She still may not fully believe that Moiraine has pledged herself to the Dark, because that would be a huge leap, but it’s an option she now has to take very seriously and act accordingly.

Next she has to meet Rand. She is in no mood to have a real conversation with him, nor give him a pep talk like she did to Nynaeve and Egwene. She just needs to find out what she can and learn if Moiraine has actually held any part of their deal and taught him how to channel - the answer: she has not. Rand is completely useless and unprepared, which happens to be hugely convenient for the Dark One.

Siuan now knows what she must do: the Dragon Reborn must be separated from Moiraine, for the sake of the mission, if there is any chance that Moiraine is now a darkfriend (and maybe for Moiraine’s sake as well, because maybe things are not as bad as they seem and there is still something that can be salvaged) and at the moment, the best action Siuan can see before her is to fall on Tower protocol, especially, as Siuan has found during her interview with Rand, the Dragon Reborn is still weak and easy to control. They had tried their way and it now seems to have cost her Moiraine. What else is there to do now but try the other approach?

When Moiraine enters the room again, Siuan meets her, not as her lover, but as the Amyrlin: cold and detached.

When Moiraine asks “have you forgotten that day” it clearly affects Siuan. She has not forgotten. But has Moiraine?

“Of course I’ve not forgotten, but YOU were supposed to be with him”

Now, it’s unclear to me if Moiraine is imprisoned with Rand, or if she is there with him by her own will, but clearly she is at least under surveillance. Leane tells Verin not to let Moiraine get close to her, implying that Moiraine is now considered a threat. Presumably these are  instructions from Siuan.

Things are already bad, but they are about to get worse, and confirm Siuan’s worst fears which she still might not have fully allowed herself to believe.

Lanfear is on the loose, and Moiraine and Rand escape. Verin seems to be in on it too. The person that Moiraine recently spent several months with. (I’m not sure if Siuan knows that's where Moiraine was, but since she and Moiraine did correspond during those months, I assume Siuan was aware of her whereabouts.) It doesn’t look good.

Siuan rushes to find Moiraine and Rand because it’s now of paramount importance that they don’t leave the town together. The best case scenario remains that Moiraine has simply lost her mind due to being stilled, but the worst case, and now a seemingly very possible scenario, is that she could be worse than that. But still, Siuan has not let go of all hope and she goes alone to deal with the woman she loves - to try one more time to either reason with her or stop her by force.

She finds her at the waygate and arrives just in time to see that it’s Moiraine - the supposedly stilled Moiraine - who has opened it. Whatever hope she was still clinging onto is gone.

“You lied to me about being stilled.”

Moiraine denies it but what value do her words have anymore if she has pledged herself to the Dark and broken her oaths?  And she looks utterly unhinged too. This is not her Moiraine.

But also Siuan can’t play her hand and directly accuse her of being a darkfriend because what good would that do? If she is a darkfriend she can lie, so her words are worth nothing.

But there is another oath that Moiraine has made directly to Siuan. Maybe that’s been broken too, but it’s all Siuan has now.

Moiraine is begging her not to, and it’s almost enough to break Siuan’s resolve, but she can’t know anymore what Moiraine’s motivation is. Is she begging her not to enforce the oath because it’s wrong, or because it would reveal that she is no longer bound by it, or maybe there is even a possibility that she still is bound by this oath because her deal with the dark one only included freeing her from the three oaths of the Aes Sedai, and now being commanded by Siuan would simply prevent her from taking the Dragon Reborn to Ishamael?

Siuan's command works and it hurts her more than anything to watch Moiraine being moved against her will by a force she cannot resist, but maybe there’s also some relief in seeing that the oath is still in place. Maybe, just maybe, Moiraine has not turned to dark after all?

When Siuan looks at Moiraine after the deed is done, she sees  her Moiraine again and she is beyond sorry for what she has just done. There is a fleeting moment where things could have been said and misunderstandings cleared, but it's too short. There is not time, because Lanfear appears before any of those things can happen.

Siuan doesn’t have any answers yet, but one thing she knows is that she’s not going to let Lanfear go unopposed. It was a valid effort but completely useless. Siuan gets tossed aside as easily as she herself had just knocked out Lan.

Now, I don’t know how Siuan interprets the last things she sees before passing out, whether she believes now that Moiraine remains true to the mission and can appreciate the fact that Moiraine having managed to win Rand’s trust is a good thing. She is awake to see Lanfear about to attack Moiraine, and to see Rand stand between them, which should suggest that Moiraine and Lanfear are not working together, but then Moiraine does go with her to the ways, so it’s open for interpretation I guess, but that doesn’t really matter in the sense that it’s something that must be dealt with later. What matters more is what Siuan believes up until the moment she forces Moiraine to close the gate.

If this is what happened, it kind of makes sense to me. But I guess only time will tell what the real story is.

[markantonys]

wotseries posted an alleged elaida audition script about 1) her telling presumably leane that she's at the tower to look for elayne and also that siuan's in a big mess and she could use elaida's help in cleaning it up, and 2) her discussing prophetic powers with min.

the first scene is pretty standard with what we've been predicting for elaida and the white tower plotline in s3, so i don't have any commentary on that one for now (though it does imply that, indeed, we'll be setting up the coup to be a slowburn season-long event with elaida weaseling around for a while before making her big move, rather than a shock event that happens early in the season, but i think most of us were thinking this already anyway).

the second scene is interesting because a different leak had placed min in tanchico. wotup's leaks have been flagrantly incorrect before (said faile would be in s2) and wotseries' audition scripts have also been flagrantly incorrect before (said gawyn would be in s2), so at this point it's just a question of which source i distrust more, and i can't answer that haha so for the time being i'll treat both Min Locations as equally plausible. (i'm assuming it'll only be one or the other because i find it hard to imagine that she could make an appearance in both locations during the course of the season, but i suppose you never know.)

looking at where s2 left off, both are equally plausible. min is in cairhien, and both siuan & co and liandrin are also in cairhien. i could see siuan snatching min back to the white tower because she knows about her powers and wants to use them, and i could also see liandrin snatching min over to tanchico because she considers her a liability after min betrayed her/didn't follow through on the deal/figured out she's a darkfriend.

looking at min's established story in the show and where her story goes in future in the books (lmao at the statement that min has a story in the books), both are equally plausible. tanchico would put her back into contact with liandrin and mat to follow up on her story with them in s2 and set up for her future seanchan story with mat (and doubly so if there's a seanchan presence or even tuon herself in tanchico in s3). the white tower would return her to her book storyline and, based on this scene with elaida, potentially give her the opportunity to have a storyline exploring the nature of her powers and her relationship with them. either storyline would allow her to go on to cross paths with rand in the next season or two.

(edited to add that tanchico would also have min interacting with elayne to help set up the polycule. i've so thoroughly made the polycule rand/elayne/avi/mat in my mind that i kinda forgot min is the canonical fourth member when i was making this post djkfg)

i will say that in the books, the tower coup has absolutely 0 bearing on min's overall character/story because she has 0 stakes in any of that stuff and 0 connection to aes sedai. it makes for an interesting 1-book storyline for her, but it's never relevant to her again (vs. someone like gawyn who is dealing with the repercussions of the coup in his storyline for pretty much the rest of the series), and so for that reason i wouldn't be sorry to replace her book storyline with an invented tanchico storyline that might have more long-term relevance to her (re: seanchan stuff). however, if the show expands her white tower storyline to include an exploration of her powers, i'd love that because min actively struggling with and trying to navigate and learn more about and figure out how best to use her powers is something that should have been part of her current story rather than her pre-series backstory. and compare/contrasting with elaida and how SHE uses her prophetic abilities would be super interesting!

that being said, i will never again trust any wotseries audition scripts after the utter betrayal that was the gawyn one, so i'm taking this all with a grain of salt! every time they post a new one they're like "disclaimer that scenes could be invented just for auditions and won't appear in the actual show, but most of our past audition scripts have appeared in the show pretty close to the audition version" and i'm like "what about that time you misled me to believe a whole-ass boy would be present in s2 and then he wasn't???? is gawyngate a joke to you???" lmao i wish they'd be a bit more cautious with their audition script disclaimers bc *i* think they've been pretty hit or miss, not Usually Accurate (even the aviendha one, only 1 of 2 scenes made it into the show iirc).

[butterflydm]

Overthinking the leaked casting for s3

wotseries.com posted another (rumored) casting for s3 a couple of weeks ago and it prompted me to go through all our known casting so far and (probably) do some overthinking (plus, the last time I Did Speculation, we got some new info very soon afterwards, so maybe that will happen again, lol):

Our new casting spoiler is Ann Ogbomo, a British actress who was part of the South Africa filming cast (which was used for both Rhuidean and Tanchico, I believe). So she could be Aiel, or one of the flashback characters, or a character in Tanchico.

She seems too old to be Tuon (otoh, Tuon might get aged up and sorta combined with Tylin in the sense of being an ~older woman~ for Mat? The books never really did anything interesting with Tuon looking younger than she was, and her being older would make her more experienced as a sul'dam), but could possibly be Egeanin or another Black Ajah Sister in Tanchico.

Other 'recent' (since the last time I posted about it) castings are Cameron Jack, Fredrik Wagner, and Michael Lindall. We don't really know anything about what Fredrik might have filmed but it looked like Michael filmed on the Two Rivers set. Cameron Jack is an actor who looks to have potentially filmed during both the Czech Republic and the South African stints of filming.

We got our first official casting of a Sea Folk character in Carmela Bonomi as Jorin din Jubai (who has a good rapport with Elayne during their time together in the books, and is the reason that Elayne figures out that the Windfinders can channel). Given the director she worked with, it sounds like she's in 3x5 and/or 3x6 -- if we meet the Sea Folk in 3x5 and then leave with them from Tanchico in 3x6, this backs up the idea that maybe our Tanchico kiddos will reunite with Rand's side of the storyline in 3x7 & 3x8 (maybe in Tear). My current speculation of "2 episodes together; 4 episodes in the Waste/Tanchico; 2 episodes together" still sounds like it could be valid (except for Perrin, of course, who would still be in the Two Rivers at the end of the season), and gives Rand & Elayne and Lan & Nynaeve screen-time to spend together to build their relationships.

We also learned about Olivia Popica as Jeanine. She gets added to Liandrin's group of Black Ajah Sisters who are likely going to break out of the White Tower in ep1 (probably killing at least one Sister in the process) and then head to Tanchico to be part of Elayne & Nynaeve's storyline.

Total Black Ajah Sisters that will Probably go to Tanchico: Liandrin, Jeaine, Ispan, and Joiya. If Moghedien is also in Tanchico, I wonder if that's going to be the extent of our Black Ajah Sisters -- it probably would be good if the number of known BA Sisters didn't outnumber the number of known non-BA Sisters!

Other leaks that wotseries.com has mentioned before:

For Andor: Morgase (Olivia Williams), Elaida (Shohreh Aghdashloo), Galad (Callum Kerr) -- we will almost certain also have Gawyn here, since s2 confirmed his existence in the world of the show, but no casting leak yet. Shiaine (Raksha Hoost) might fit in here as well, though she might also be a Secret Character, since her identity gets taken over by a Darkfriend at some point, iirc.

We also have a listing for someone for Jaq Lounalt (Rob McLoughlin), who works for Arymilla in the latter books but might work for Jaichim Carridan (Jared Doreck) in the earlier ones? He's a Darkfriend, at any rate. Might appear in a couple of potential places. Carridan is in Tanchico working with Liandrin & co in TSR, so they might both be there.

For 2R/Perrin: Faile (Isabella Bucceri), Jac al'Seen (Paul A Maynard), and Marin al'Vere's actress is now Rina Mahoney.

For Aiel/Rand: Maigran, da'shain Aiel (Tereza Duskova), Latra, older version (Ania Marson), Solina, Aes Sedai during the Breaking (Thandi Sebe) - these all seem likely to feature in the glass columns sequence.

For the White Tower: Lelaine (Rebecca Root)

We also got a leak that an actor named Robert Strange shot for the show and this is interesting because he's a creature actor and has played several non-human characters in his career (that said, he is also very tall, and so might be an Aiel). But thanks to @markantonys for noticing that he's mainly a creature actor, because otherwise I would have fixated on his height and assumed Aiel! But given that he does act as a lot of creatures, I feel like he's a strong candidate for a Finn.

Then we have a bunch of leaks that aren't attached to a particular role:

Diêm Camille (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Nuno Lopes (I've seen spec that he's one of the Forsaken)

Luke Fetherston  (seen spec that he's Luc)

Nukâka Coster-Waldau (I suspect an Aes Sedai)

Björn Landberg (6'6" - maybe Aiel? taller than Josha)

Synnøve Macody Lund (6' - maybe Aiel?)

Clare Dunne (5'9" - maybe Aiel?)

Salóme Gunnarsdóttir (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Clare-Hope Ashitey (has been nominated for several acting awards)

And other potential cast who are more tenuously suspected:

Iman Marson (looks young, maybe 2R character?)

Ian Atwiine (also pretty young; maybe 2R character?)

Ferdinand McKay (very little info)

Kiren Kebaili-Dwyer (6' - maybe Aiel? maybe 2R)

Diana Dulinkova (5'7" - maybe Aiel?)

Natasha Culzac (6'1" freckled redhead - Aiel?)

Lots of potential new characters. Nothing that I've seen disproves my most recent speculation about s3, though that can change quickly.

[asha-mage]

WoT Musing: Bits and Bobs from a book nerd

A few unsorted/random thoughts from a book mega nerd about various things in the show-

It's interesting to me that they changed Logain's innate talent from being able to see ta'veren to being able to see when a man can channel or not. This is practically probably because Mat was also in that scene, but I've also noticed that they've dialed back on the use of the term 'ta'veren' as a whole this season. Probably to avoid over cluttering all the concepts their having to introduce.

Elayne's desire to work with her hands/fascination with craftsmanship showing itself in her 'sparker trick' being a weave to make alcohol is very funny and on brand.

The show is continuing to walk out the small shifts in it's dynamics born of re-ordering things in a smart way. Everyone being slightly older was felt sharply in season 1: Mat's mischief and gambling is a whole lot less cute and a whole lot more worrying since he's no longer a teen, Perrin is married (like always intended to be) and settled as the most 'responsible' of the boys, etc. In season 2 Egwene arrived first instead of Elayne, and is the more experienced/knowing Novice, to Elayne's naive newcomer. As a result we get to see the slightly spoiled sweet girl she was before the Tower started to bust down her pride and teach her more about the world. She's a little more unsure, and a little more eager to make friends- both of which work in favor of showing off her strengths as a character, endearing her to both Egwene and the audience.

The choice to give Perrin the ability to see visions of the past with his wolf brother powers is interesting. I get that they need a visual way to express Perrin's wolf senses, and this is probably the most direct, since their's not a non-weird way to visually depict smell, but I hope we at least get a TAR related explanation from Elyas.

I find the use of the Crimson Thorn as a symbol of the Red Ajah and the cruel mercy that they grant to be fascinating. More over, I find Nynaeve's being pulled between the Red and Yellow Ajahs (something I suspect we are going to get more of) to be smartly done: Nynaeve has never been afraid of doing what needs to be done, but that doesn't make it easy, and Liandrin is right: to an extent that their always been a little bit of Red in her, a belief that the world would be better if everyone just followed her rules. And yet it is her compassion that defines her, that fuels her rage most of the time. Compassion for those hurt and sick and dying turns to rage against what caused it: a cruel world or a war or a sickness. Compassion for those she cares most for fuels her rage at those that would threaten, hurt, or control them. She left the Two Rivers to protect the EF5 and that remains her goal all the way to the series's end, her character arc is largely about accepting what that will mean, and learning not to be afraid to claim the power to do that.

I've said this in various other forms but it bares repeating: Lanfear really is winning right out the gate. She's got the hot new hardware LTT as her naive sugar baby, their is no one in sight to threaten her control over him with things like 'morals' and 'duty', and he's slowly succumbing to her influence. More then worth the price of having to run a small business in a slum I'm sure.

That said I want a 50k word fic that is just Lanfear's Adventures in Small Business Ownership. We know those drinks where over priced, but where they watered down? Did she have to pay a mortgage? Deal with uppity suppliers? Was their a Darkfriend Company Discount as Selene's Totally Normal And Not At All Evil Bed and Breakfast?

I have two nitpicks that are so minor they barely warrant discussion, and one is not even the show's fault. The first is that everyone keeps saying things like 'your powers' rather then 'strength in the power'. Jordan goes to so much trouble to make the point that people and objects don't have the power, they use it and strong in the power, and then Sanderson changed it to 'my powers' and 'how powerful he is' and *gargles*. This is like the peaches all over again.

The second is that as much as they nail the arches scene/ceremony, I wish they had gone the final mile and said 'Be steadfast'. It wasn't necessary exactly, but it's exclusion made me whisper under my breath, like a rhyme I just HAD to finish.

(This is completely normal and sane person behavior, stop looking at me like that internet stranger).

I don't have to much to say about Mat's story line beyond being VERY interested in where they are going tying him and Min together. I still needs to get off the ground for me to have more Thoughts.

Adeleas being Cringefail re: Lan is so funny to me in ways I can't quite explain.

I reiterate the point that since Rand's can't be Warder trained, giving him an old veteran blade master who is suffering from PTSD/Dementia was a VERY smart move that fits the feel of the books.

RIP Joshua's soft boy curls. You where a casualty of this war.

[lookingforcactus]

Maybe this is a stretch driven by my hope for siuaraine, but I wonder if the final scene between Suian and Moiraine went the way it did because Suian thinks Moiraine might have turned to the dark

"You lied to me about being stilled."

My eyebrows shot up when I heard that line, bc that's a big deal accusation for an Aes Sedai. And parallels nicely with Alanna and co. accusing Lan of being a darkfriend last episode

Which I know some people hated, but the thing is, Lan and Moiraine have kind of been acting super sketchy, if you don't know the things we know

Like, from Siuan's pov: Lan shows up and tells her Moiraine has been stilled, which in MONTHS of letters, Moiraine never mentioned. Siuan is horrified that happened, has got to be terrified that Moiraine is going to kill herself, and is also lost and hurt and baffled that Moiraine would hide this from her

Like, that omission was a HUGE DEAL, relationship wise. Not a good move keeping something that important from your wife, especially when they were plotting together and it would be 100% reasonable and probably also a good move for Moiraine to turn to Siuan for help

And going back to Siuan's pov, she's dealing with ALL THAT, plus the Dragon, which is another thing she and Moiraine (seem to be?) at odds about

There's darkfriends in the Tower

Moiraine has been hiding something from her

Moiraine has been stilled

The town they're in is assaulted and set on fire

Someone has broken the Dragon out of the White Tower's custody

And when Siuan goes to try to, presumably, get him back, what happens?

She turns the corner and finds Moiraine, Lan, and Rand standing there, alone, in front of a waygate that MOIRAINE JUST OPENED

And I'm sure that normally, this wouldn't make Siuan worry about Moiraine's loyalties, but...she just found out the love of her life was stilled and then spent six months completely failing to tell her about it

Who wouldn't be shaken? Who wouldn't already be asking "If she hid something as big as THIS from me, what else could she be hiding?"

And then she shows up and Moiraine has just used the One Power to open a waygate

Earlier in the episode, when she finds out Moiraine has been stilled (well, close enough), what she says is something like "Six months of letters, and not a single word about that." The very common Aes Sedai route of lying by omission

When she shows up at the Waygate, she says "You lied to me about being stilled."

Siuan thinks Moiraine was able to break one of the oaths. Which Moiraine could only do if she'd sworn herself to the Dark.

And as Lan establishes, the idea of tying off a weave and leaving it in place is so not a thing anymore, it's barely even the stuff of legends. Why would Siuan think that's on the list of possibilities? Especially in such an overwhelming and emotionally fraught and literally things are on fire moment?

And all Moiraine says in response (in her defense there are a lot of things going on) is "I can't"

Which, yeah, Siuan knows that is (supposed to be) the case

And THEN, fucking Lanfear shows up, gets pretty easily talked into not killing Moiraine by Rand, and then Moiraine and Lan follow Lanfear and Rand through the waygate without a word

I think it would be 100% reasonable, actually, for Siuan to suspect that Moiraine is a darkfriend after all of that, and given what she knows

So much of Moiraine's life has been out of Siuan's view, for like 20 years now. So much could've happened

And now Moiraine is using the One Power even after she told everyone that she was stilled

Kind of a guilty look actually!!!

(If this is what they're doing though they definitely should've been more clear/explicit/developed with the setup, tho. But otherwise I think it's really interesting as a potential plot point!)

[ebro-devoo]

After having some time to reflect on 2x07, I think Siuan’s actions were justified and somewhat sympathetic given the information she knew. First off, Lan came to Siuan and told her that moraine have been deliberately withholding essential information from her (the fact that she was stilled ) and was threatening to pass Lans bond which both indicated that Moraine was not in a good place mentally or physically to complete their mission (train and protect Rand/the world from Ran).

Now cut to when she meets with Ran. While we as viewers know that Ran is not evil or mad yet, from her perspective he is a nuclear bomb that could either become evil or go mad in the process of saving the world. The last dragon literally killed a ton of people and destroyed the world, and as the head of the “servants of all” it’s Siuan’s job to protect the world from Rand, and so when she sees that Moraine has no power to control him if he starts to go insane and has failed to teach him anything, she makes the decision to shield/control him, which in her mind is what’s best for the safety of the world. While we know it’s the wrong choice, I don’t think this is anything like the Seanchan who literally enslave an entire group of people while I think of the dragon more as the trolley problem (sacrifice the one to save the many).

Then in the final confrontation with Moraine and Lanfear, I think her confusion and perceived betrayal from Moraine dictates most of her actions. First she finds out that Moraine and Verrin tricked Leanne into letting them escape, then arrives at the way gate to see that Moraine has channeled, meaning that she lied about being stilled making Siuan think that she could be a darkfriend. While the using of the oath was awful and definitely violating, I don’t think Siuan felt as if she had any choice because she wasn’t going to let a suspected dark friend walk away with the dragon reborn. You could also see on her face afterwords how broken she felt in that moment.

Anyways, I think both Siuan and Moraine were trying to do what they thought was right and neither of them are villains and that’s what made this episode so hard to watch.

[jaqobis]

sorting out some finale impressions after sleeping on it

it's like.

moiraine being able to burn the ships despite the oaths; the protracted scene of renna's murder; perrin going into a rage and killing bornhald senior; rand one-shotting turak etc; mat stabbing people left and right with the dagger; nynaeve torturing the sul'dam but that plot coming to nothing (returning to that in a moment). like i read the interview, i know what the rand scene referenced. i can imagine the perrin scene was buildup for fear of the wolf. it's not that i just don't get it.

but like did dain necessarily need Valid Reason to hate perrin lol. again, i can see what they're doing. but What If The Whitecloaks Were Here To Fight The Seanchan -- which, yeah, they do oppose the seanchan in the books. but the specific framing of them to help and whatever, when no one else was willing to. specifically also throwing siuan under the bus bc allegedly the amyrlin also got a letter about this. even if this turns out to be a lie, this is the standing narrative for now, and in combination with everything else they did with siuan this season, yikes.

i read the interview, i know what the rand thing was referencing, but also that's a scene of rand acting in self-defense against darkfriends that were literally about to murder him. if he'd struck a second later, or waited, they might have succeeded. more importantly that's where he's in a situation where people have been trying to murder him literally day and night for, like, months. he hasn't slept in as long. the context is totally different. there is also a rand scene in TFOH where he talks about how it feels unfair to use saidin against non-channelers. you can just as easily argue that he Wouldn't do this.

i actually, personally, think it's very important for the egwene/rand parallels that her friends were there to save her from the seanchan, and that he later has to save himself from the box. i also think it was important for her development that she could know she has friends who would and do come for her. i also personally find that narrative much more satisfying, cool as her Moment was. i'd been spoiled about her killing renna going in, and like we can discuss morality whether rj was Right to ask if revenge is justice or if it's More Right for egwene to kill renna, we'd be here forever. i'm not really looking to comment on that. it is kind of a weird vibe to remove a meditation on violence, however, in a series that is anti-war, in a finale that seemed to make a lot of choices to depict and make this battle Cool, etc. that had us watch renna die for quite a long moment. renna certainly got what was coming to her, but idk.

Violence Is Cool. Traumatic Experiences Lead To Empowering Moments. that's the vibe it's giving.

lan continued to be used just to prop up moiraine and explain how she's feeling and talk about how good she is. at least daniel henney got a pretty cool fight scene!

tbf leaning on the whitecloaks and ishamael as sad and sympathetic has sanderson written all over it

making the sul'dam weak channelers seems to lose some of the hypocrisy central to the seanchan empire; losing some of the hypocrisy and deep societal rot undercuts the commentary on institutional-level change needed to remove the damane system. combined with the deaths of both collared sul'dams, that secret also goes lost.

(they certainly might bring it back and address it later, but arguing that It's 100% Coming, Shut Up & Stop Whining is just as much of a bad faith argument as claiming the show sucks bc hurin isn't in it. i can only comment to what exists now. also, frankly, i've been told things i was criticising previously were OBVIOUSLY going to be addressed in the finale and. weren't? so like.)

nynaeve really was allowed to accomplish nothing useful huh. no speech about justice, no part of the successful figuring out how to uncollar, no healing, no protecting her friends from forsaken, nothing. for all that elayne was immediately walking around everywhere after her dramatic wound, they could've just. let nynaeve do that.

like i obviously understand that they're showing the block is a real problem, which it is, but this is a choice that was made.

also not a single mention of ryma after her big sacrifice huh. it would add approximately 5 seconds to runtime for the wondergirls to talk about saving egwene and ryma at any point.

loial's speech about them all being heroes + mat's hero of the horn thing + crowds cheering (yes i remember the end of tdr) + etc etc really building up this idea of Heroism As Cool. could be something they'll work to subvert later but it's certainly an element that existed in the books at this point. that they've stripped out.

also like why even bother destroying the heron mark sword without the buildup of why it matters to rand or why its destruction was narratively impactful. unearned. rand saying he won't serve ishamael in a thousand lifetimes, unearned. there were plenty of other moments that didn't feel earned to me that escape me now, which. a shame!

i've already rb'd a post that laid out my feelings about rand thus far pretty well so i'll mostly spare y'all but. it's an incredible disservice to his character to take a scene where he tries to sacrifice himself for egwene/his loved ones, knowingly opens himself up to terrible pain, and thereby gets the wound that gives him chronic pain for the rest of his life and kills him, and make it...a mistake of mat's. like. yes, we've seen him try to sacrifice himself at the eye. there's nothing wrong with repeating this beat? it's called a consistent character trait. it was already a subversion of the conceit of a 1v1 op heroic battle. they tried to fix something that didn't need fixing, to make a point it was already making. also rand just immediately up and about after getting this wound, even with healing, where he was out for days in the book. it just doesn't bode super well for depiction of chronic pain sufferer rand al'thor. i don't doubt they intend to show us the wound breaking open etc etc but you're also undercutting significance on multiple levels out the gate. it bothers me! but i'm chronically ill with chronic pain so i'm not going to pretend this is some coldly logical clear-eyed opinion.

also perrin killing bornhald sr the same way he killed laila. except it's not even an immediate heat of the moment in the same way, he had to go out and find bornhald sr and stab him repeatedly and be held back. like i love hopper too (another death that felt really. gratuitous in handling.) but christ's sake. it's sure a Look.

tl;dr the themes??? ? ? the themes ???? ? ? and then i remember the sanderson of it all and i understand lmao.

[alphacentaurinebula]

WOT - Lan's storyline

I have been loving WoT s2 and feel like overall the changes they've made have been for the better. But of course I'm now going to spend ages talking about the small bit of it I DON'T like (cough, fandom), because there is one element I am really not enjoying and that is Lan's storyline.

I really like Alanna and her warders in the show (she was very much not my fav character in the books) and I enjoyed the chance to see into their world more in Ep 4 (when we saw their lives together, their relationship, Alanna's family...). I liked the insight into this different warder dynamic. And i just super love Maksim. If we had 15 episode seasons, this would feel like a brilliant way to enrich the storyworld and secondary characters.

But given how much story they are packing in for everyone else, and how little time we actually HAVE in 8 episodes, this whole plotline has just felt like treading water/wasted time.

I don't feel like we've learned anything interesting about Lan, in the way Moiraine's storyline has been filled with both character revelation and backstory. He's broody? I think we knew that already. He's not into threesomes? Disappointing for Future Nyneave, but not exactly crucial information here!

And also Lan is just like...so dumb? Everyone and their mother understands how Moiraine got around the 3 oaths to say she didn't see them as equals. I get it, he's hurt, but...dude! And I've seen complaints (from book readers) that it was wrong of Alanna et al to accuse Lan of being a darkfriend because of his background, but that is rubbish. This world is set up so that literally no one above suspicion of being a darkfriend. It makes sense they'd be suspicious of him.

Which makes it even more ABSURD that he isn't suspicious of them, and instead just blurts out this MASSIVE secret about the Dragon Reborn. I know the Alanna squad set themselves up as not dark friends by accusing Lan, but that could have been manipulation! He's ridiculously trusting to tell them about the dragon reborn.

I know he's pissed with Moiraine and doesn't understand her plans or trust her as he once did...but this revealing of a secret they'd worked 20 years for, just seems...really flipping DUMB!

I know loads of people love Lan in the books but I find him super boring and basically only care about him and his fate because I love Nyneave so much. I really wish we weren't wasting screen time on him and a pointless plotline in a season where everything else is working so well.

[megamuscle885-blog]

My apologies to the Wormies following me, but I'm re-listening to the Wheel of Time audio book(s) and I just got to the Seanchan and I'm going to explode if I don't talk about how much I fucking hate them. Spoilers for Wheel of Time (but honestly it's 15 books I'm not going to force you to read all of them first.)

CW: Fascists. Sexual abuse/violence.

They're fascists. Unambiguously. They enslave just about everyone and everything they meet. They expect complete strangers to know their intricate ways under pain of death. Anyone they can't kill for convenience they torture in their every waking moment. They conquer people, then let them walk around armed because of their brutal arrogance that lets them murder anyone not cowed into submission.

Damane are enslaved, treated like animals, have their hands and tongues cut off if there is a risk to their owner's secrets, and despite the apparent Seanchan cultural shame of having sex with one, treated akin to bestiality, I seriously doubt that there aren't members of the Blood that have raped Damane. When women are under institutional power to the degree that the Seanchan have placed women who can channel under, women who are already treated like animals, or as it's said in the text; "Like a piece of furniture or a tool", women are victimized. Some of these women have been enslaved for hundreds of years, some have been captured as teenagers, and the ones holding their literal chains are also women who can channel that simply didn't have the initial spark that doomed the other women in the first place. By all technicality, each and every Suldam, including the Seanchan Heir apparent are Marath'damane themselves. The only fucking reason that Tuon doesn't get collared herself is because the text needs her to commit her forces to the Last Battle. It would only take a little thinking and her entire court could supplant her.

I hate every single facet of their existence. Their empire is under constant rebellion, but not a single fucking one of the Seanchan characters thinks it's at all odd that people are constantly rising up in defiance of a totalitarian state as merciless and cruel as theirs. It's treated as a bad thing that darkfriends cause the collapse of the mainland Seanchan Empire, the death of the Empress, and the complete anarchy that follows.

My sole consolation is the knowledge that every empire falls, that my headcanon for the aftermath of Wheel of Time means that the Seanchan collapse entirely. Their mainland is embroiled in a total civil war, armed with rampaging, angry magical nukes, scouring everything of life. Their new empire is headed by a woman who can channel, and every enslaved and conquered person in their invader empire can theoretically flee into the free lands of the east, including any women who can channel. If anyone figures out that the A'dam would work on Tuon, she's fucked and so is Matt and the Seanchan settler empire. There is no way that the Seanchan can keep hunting Marath'damane with the entire rest of the world has organizations of channelers that they can flee to, and the Dragon's Peace to keep the nations from killing each-other.

The worst part about listening to the Seanchan chapters is having to pause every ten minutes or so and get angry about something new being so cartoonishly evil, while the Seanchan shrug off criticism as if it's somehow natural to murder and enslave everything you can see and people who don't just don't understand their ways, which are better than everyone else.

And we're supposed to accept that Tuon is somehow gentler with her Damane. As if that's a fucking high bar to clear. Hypocritical bitch. Fuck you.

Maybe they'll tone it down for the TV show, but I already have so many problems with the show that I probably won't watch it. Amazon will not do the books justice, and they've abbreviated and changed so much it's barely the same tone or characters. That can be another rant for another day.

[moghedien]

ok so i was genuinely unsure about how I felt about the way Lanfear was revealed in the moment, but there are three main things that are really selling it for me:

1: It immediately sets up the threat of going up against a Forsaken:

So far we haven't really gotten much of an indication from the show about what the Forsaken really are, who they are, and why they're any different that a regular darkfriend. Obviously there's still a ways to go in explaining it, but Lanfear provided an immediate visual explanation

Because for example, we've already seen one darkfriend innkeeper who had a thing for Rand (or pretended to) take a knife through the throat

We've even seen Rand stick around and linger by her body and its very clear that absolutely nothing happens.

We get a lingering shot on her bleeding out and she is very clearly actually dead in this moment. Its not even really a question.

But with Lanfear we kinda get the exact opposite of this moment. We see her take a knife to the throat and clearly go down, then there is no lingering by the characters.

The camera goes back to her and we see the saa very clearly moving in her eye, then she blinks and breaths in.

And by this being the opposite of Dana, I mean that with Dana there was no question that she was actually dead. With Lanfear, there is absolutely no question that she's still alive.

Dana was also a darkfriend, but this is very clearly showing non readers that Lanfear is something DIFFERENT. We're told she's a darkfriend of some kind, then we're seen that she actually apparently cannot die by normal means. This coming AFTER the reveal that she is definitely a channler of some kind, and if we now know she's a Forsaken, then we know that Moiraine clearly said the Forsaken are the most powerful channlers ever, more powerful than any Aes Sedai.

And now apparently they can't die.

2. Its foreshadowing.

Moiraine was able to take out Lanfear (if only temporarily) with a physical attack because Lanfear was so fixated on Rand.

The above is also a spoiler for the climax of a certain book.

I'm not gonna get into it, but its clearly like showing that there's a course of action and there is a playbook that works here.

3. NOW we have Lanfear

Before we had Selene. I'd argue there were even moments where we had Mierin, but the only time Lanfear has really come out before this was when she went into Rand's dream and threatened him in episode 3.

By this I mean that while Selene was always obviously an act Lanfear was putting on, it stopped us from really seeing how manipulative and obsessive Lanfear could be and was currently being. If we didn't know she was Lanfear (and non readers shouldn't) then there's no reason to realize the lengths to her manipulation. We still don't know that the man she was telling Rand about was Lews Therin. We still don't know that Lanfear even knew Lews Therin much less would want to rekindle any kind of lost romance with his reincarnation. Because even when Lanfear was being honest as Selene, she was keeping herself back. She wasn't latching onto Rand and telling him that he was hers. She was very clearly holding onto the memory of Lews Therin, but there has yet to be any clear indication that she 100% buys that Rand and Lews Therin are the same person rather than Rand just being his reincarnation.

So while Lanfear was definitely getting some joy out of sleeping with Lews Therin reborn, there is no real indication that that is what she wanted. She said she wants Lews Therin. She tells Rand she's more or less settling for him. Let's assume that was 100% honest for the moment (because I believe it mostly is to a point), I don't think that's the case after this episode. Because Mierin Eronaile suddenly got the one thing she'd always wanted:

If you watch the moments immediately before this scene and immediately after, there is a shift in how Lanfear is acting here.

Before she was very clearly putting on an act. She was playing up being afraid of Rand and didn't seem at all concerned about keeping him here. The most she does is ask him where he's going to go, and even that is said in a weird tone unless you know that she's probably going to use this information to keep tabs on him and report it/follow him herself.

But Rand does the one thing he absolutely shouldn't have done with Lanfear and told her that he loves her.

So now I think is the moment where Lanfear is willing to accept that Rand is Lews Therin. Because if Rand is Lews Therin, then Lews Therin just said that he loves her.

And her entire tone shifts here. You can see she's visibly shocked in the moment, and then smiles and flips the scene to her being afraid of him, to her reassuring him and telling him that he should have told her and telling him that he didn't do anything wrong and he was just acting in his nature. Before she was bringing up the inn and was clearly trying to make him feel bad. Now she's clearly trying to reassure him and keep him around. Absolutely manipulation but I think she didn't really need him to stay until he indicated that he loved her.

So what this means is that we now have Lanfear, who is established as being unkillable and one of the most powerful and oldest being in existence, NOW becoming obsessed with Rand al'Thor and thinking of him entirely as Lews Therin. And not only that, but now she's PISSED because he just left her and was taken away from her by Moiraine exactly when she finally had him back after thousands of years.

She finally got everything she's wanted and it was immediately taken away, and I think that's frankly terrifying, so yeah, I think I do like this reveal now actually.

[momowoah]

wot book spoilers (maybe? only really vaguely mentioned and the specific character I'm talking about is not named and dead anyway but)

I have seen a lot of people commenting on the written-out redemption of a certain darkfriend and theorizing whether this specific plotline will be assigned to another character in the future. As a show-only who loves spoiling herself, however, all I can think about is if it is really needed.

If there's one message that stuck with me from this season, it's that Light ≠ Good and Dark ≠ Evil (and also that the differences between Light and Dark/good and evil aren't that great). I mean, both the Seanchan (minus Suroth and co) and the Children of the Light are sworn to the Light, but so far in the show they have been a much greater evil than anyone aligned to the dark. On the other hand, we have Lanfear, a Forsaken who burns cities down to the ground just because, working mostly for the Light (although only bc it benefited her) throughout the season. She was the one who took the Dragon to Falme, fully knowing he wouldn't choose the Dark, and arranged for Moiraine to raise his banner.

Other darkfriends, such as Barthanes and Liandrin, were also portrayed as relatively good characters, although ones who acted only in their own interests. Barthanes genuinely like Moiraine, even if he was willing to kill her, and Liandrin's interest in Nynaeve went past just recruiting her to the dark. She gave her a fighting chance against Suroth; she pushed her to be accepted. Liandrin was much more likeable as a darkfriend this season than she was as an Aes Sedai in the last one.

Honestly, so far, the main difference between the Dark and the Light is that the people sworn to the Dark are selfish and always choose to do what benefits them the most while those sworn to the Light believe in something greater and always do what they believe to be right (best example is Anveare). As a show-only, I can see any darkfriend turning to the Light; although I would've liked to see that redemption, I truly don't think the show needs it.

[pillowfriends]

TSR new reader thoughts

chapter 6: doorways

best chapter yet of this book, chef's kiss. it took me literally like an hour to read these 19 pages because I listened to part of it on audio, went back and reread, and annotated so much. no regrets, what a banger chapter.

first, great insights into Elayne's character, with her feeling out of her depth and cowardly compared to Nynaeve and Egwene (even though in Egwene's narration she talks about how scared she is of the Darkfriends too), and trying to mediate. I love her conversation later in the chapter with Moiraine about wars and strategy, I feel like this is an aspect of her I hadn't seen/understood before.

also Nynaeve's paragraph about war really struck me.

War used to be something I heard about from peddlers, something far away that I didn't reallly understand. I know what it is, now. Men killing men. Men behaving like animals, reduced to animals. Villages burned, farms and fields burned. Hunger, disease and death, for the innocent as the guilty. What makes this war of yours better, Moiraine? What makes it cleaner?

Moiraine has such a cold ruthlessness about her that most of the other characters can't even begin to understand. it's fascinating.

Moiraine, Egwene and Elayne talking about boys was hilarious. what does Moiraine know about the man she's going to marry?? I mean, I think *I* know because spoilers, but what and how does she know?? I love how she guessed wrong about Egwene's feelings for Rand and Egwene was so happy like, fuck yeah, she doesn't actually know everything, rare W for the Emond's Field girls. also Moiraine being like "btw Nynaeve I don't want to marry Lan, cough cough, hint hint" is so good.

also we learned about Two Rivers courting rituals from the second romance conversation! I am living.

I'm keeping an eye on this redstone doorway, because I've heard it mentioned before in reference to Moiraine's plotline. lore-wise it seems very cool, and I'm excited to see where it goes. I love all the ter'angreal.

< last | next >

[butterflydm]

2x7 - daes dae'mar (more thoughts)

I threw some thoughts out last night before I went to sleep because they were bouncing around in my brain and I wanted to get them down but I wanted to expand on some of that this morning.

Two things we were told in 2x1:

every choice has consequence(s)

alone, we are exposed but, together, we can be a shield wall

We have seen a lot of consequences coming to roost on people's heads this season. One that seems to have surprised a lot of viewers is that we are seeing big consequences from Moiraine and Lan's twenty years of secrecy. Which is both things wrapped up together - the choices they've made have isolated them. While in some cases that's a good thing (Liandrin knowing about the Dragon Reborn hunt would have been very bad!), they've also now had two different Sisters willing to go against Tower law in order to help them (Verin & Alanna).

Choices and consequences.

Moiraine lets Rand go at the Eye of the World in 1x8 -> it takes her until 2x4 to find him again, and it's only after one of the Forsaken has already been manipulating him for months.

Moiraine hides her weaknesses and fears even from the people she loves most -> the people that she loves worry about her intentions. Lan had to go on an entire season-long journey to come to terms with being shut out of Moiraine's head; Siuan has only just learned that Moiraine has been lying to her by omission for six (!) months. (Siuan has just as much right to be angry over this as Rand's loved ones have to be angry with him over lying about being dead imo)

Lan keeps Moiraine's secrets at any cost -> Alanna, Ihvon, and Maksim note his shady behavior and are worried that he's a Darkfriend.

I find both Alanna's worry in 2x5 and Siuan's worry in this episode to be incredibly reasonable reactions to the actual information they had been given (or not given).

Not telling the people you love what you're afraid of or about your failures creates separation (one of the themes of the season). It happened with Moiraine and Lan, and now it's happened with Moiraine and Siuan.

So Siuan has, for the last six months, believed that Moiraine was in control of the situation with Rand. Siuan sent Logain to Cairhien so that he could teach Rand and otherwise has been hands-off, trusting Moiraine to do what was needed to be done. And she just found out that this appears to have been a huge mistake - the Dragon has no control over his power, enough so that Siuan was able to easily shield him. He's barely been taught at all. And at the end of the episode... Moiraine feels betrayed because Siuan used her Oath against her; Siuan feels betrayed because Moiraine help the Dragon break out of Tower control using the help of one of the Forsaken. Even if you strip away Siuan wondering if Moiraine is a Darkfriend/Black Ajah (and given that she straight-out accuses Moiraine of lying, Siuan must be wondering if Moiraine is BA), Moiraine's actions look terrible. Especially since I'm assuming Moiraine didn't mention Lanfear in any of her letters either.

Rafe mentioned that one of the priorities about this season was making sure that the stage would be set for The Shadow Rising and I definitely am feeling that way in this plotline especially. We've just set up the fault lines that will lead to the coup and we've set up chaos in Cairhien.

Choices and consequences.

Rand leaves his loved ones behind, cutting his past life off behind him -> leaving him incredibly emotionally vulnerable when 'Selene' comes to call on him. We are still seeing the consequences of that initial choice unravel. His choice to try to strike it out alone has meant that he has no clue what he's doing.

Mat stays behind at the Waygate, confirming to himself that he's a coward -> again, this opens the door to emotional vulnerability. Something that both Liandrin and now Ishamael are taking full advantage of, pressing on that button of self-loathing in the hopes that it will break, and Mat will break with it.

This season has been making it clear, over and over, that it is a choice to be united, not something that happens by default. You don't have to come with me; you don't have to stay; you don't have to help. Nynaeve tells this to both Egwene and Elayne; in a reversed way, Elyas tells this to Perrin (you can come with me instead of helping your friends who were captured); Rand tells this to Mat.

Moiraine has spent all season trying to make it impossible for Lan to stay by her side, because she believes that she can't protect him without her powers. But that's Lan's choice, not Moiraine's. This fight is his too, not just hers. We see this echoed in Anvaere's storyline -- Moiraine doesn't even know that her life was threatened! She doesn't know that Anvaere destroyed all her hopes and dreams of the future, and of her son's future, to save Moiraine's life. And Anvaere did this in the full belief that Moiraine doesn't love her (which I don't think is true, but Anvaere absolutely believes it). Anvaere will lose everything and gain nothing out of this... except that she is doing the right thing.

It matters to Anveare that she does the right thing, even if it costs her dearly. Even if it costs her everything.

And this is exactly what Siuan does too -- I love that both Siuan and Moiraine make extremely terrible choices because they believe those choices are necessary to save the world -- which ties them into what Renna tells Egwene this episode in a fascinating way. We are definitely getting our Rand & Egwene parallels in 2x6 & 2x7!

Doing the right thing is a choice. But it's a choice that you need accurate information in order to make good decisions about. Lan did a lot of fact-finding recently, and what he learned helped him parse out what 'the right thing' was in the cloud of possible right things.

Nynaeve actually said something like this, back during 1x7 -- Moiraine has already made her choice, now it's time for the Two Rivers' group to make theirs. She does not get to make it for them. And that's what we're seeing this season. We're seeing all of these other players on the board making their choices (and seeing how information, or lack of information, informs those choices).

(which also ties into the theme of cages and freedom; we have to be given the freedom to make choices. Which ties into... well, something that is more spoilery than my tag, so I will stop there.)

[apocalypticavolition]

Let's (re)Read The Great Hunt! Chapter 20: Saidin

Welcome back to my reread folks! It's almost Christmas so let's tell a story about the big man himself (pictured above). He might just have a present for you! I also have one: the usual warning that this reread has spoilers for the whole of the series. Don't keep reading if you don't like that.

Once again we have a painfully obvious chapter icon. This chapter is called saidin. It's got the Dragon's Fang. I literally don't know what to say.

Rand kept them moving through the night, allowing only a brief stop at dawn, to rest the horses. And to allow Loial rest. With the Horn of Valere in its gold-and-silver chest occupying his saddle, the Ogier walked or trotted ahead of his big horse, never complaining, never slowing them.

Poor Loial. We have been drawing a lot of attention to his horse-free shenanigans at this point. I wonder if he's wondering why he even brought the damn horse.

Rand was sure she was no older than he, but at that moment she suddenly seemed as old and as cold as the mountains, and more regal than Queen Morgase at her haughtiest.

She is in fact older than most extant mountains.

“All I want is to see it in the light of day. I won’t even touch it. You hold it. It would be something for me to remember, you holding the Horn of Valere in your hands.”

I'm honestly not fully sure what she's up to here. Is it part of a plan, a way to try and establish her control over Rand, or is she just so power-hungry that she can't control herself?

He had never seen an Aes Sedai act the way she did, and she looked young, not ageless.

Considering that Jordan doesn't seem to have decided that the ageless look is the result of the Oath Rod yet (we'll cover that more next book I think), I can only assume that his intent was either becoming a Darkfriend interfered with that look or that the Mask of Mirrors weave's main purpose in bygone days would have been to hide channeling ability at all.

It was a kind of smile that always put his back up—but at least it was a smile.

Really there's a great deal of emotionally abusive tactics in Lanfear's arsenal, though frankly Jordan doesn't seem to fully recognize them as such considering how so many women act in the same ways. There's a lot that we could break down there but I think l'll leave it be.

“A village inn,” Selene sniffed. “Dirty, no doubt, and full of unwashed men swilling ale. Why can’t we sleep under the stars again? I find I enjoy sleeping under the stars.”

It's a common topic in the fandom about the hilarity of the Forsaken finding themselves in the current conditions, but I don't think it gets highlighted enough that Lanfear finds the modern era so repugnant given the choice between it and outright camping, she prefers camping.

Selene met his sally with silence and an unreadable look. After a moment, they started on again.

Lanfear suffers from the same affliction of many smart people in that she's very clever but not the least bit persuasive, nor good at figuring out how others will respond to her persuasion. She's probably so used to just using Compulsion and brute force to get what she wants at this point that it's hard to tell if she was always like this or if she was a better people person in the AoL.

Out of the clay at the bottom of the pit slanted a gigantic stone hand holding a crystal sphere, and it was this that shone with the last sunlight.

Ozymandias eat your heart out. Getting completely buried until now probably helped the male Choedan Kal a great deal; considering that the female one has spent the last three and a half thousand years partially exposed. We know that Portal Stones can be worn down too, so honestly I wonder if that exposure is what made the female statue much less reliable than the male.

Selene rode close and took hold of his arm. “Please, Rand, you must come away.” He looked at her hand, puzzled, then followed her arm up to her face. She seemed genuinely worried, perhaps even afraid.

Honestly this situation has got to be completely terrifying. The Choedan Kal could absolutely obliterate Rand if he tried to use it directly and Lanfear wouldn't even have enough warning that he was doing it so she'd get fried too. And of course, she can't just tell him because there's too many lies between both of them already.

“Till shade is gone,” he mumbled, “till water is gone . . .” Power filled him. He was one with the sphere. “. . . into the Shadow with teeth bared . . .” The power was his. The Power was his. “. . . to spit in Sightblinder’s eye . . .” Power to Break the World. “. . . on the last day!”

If you don't agree that this is one of the most badass sayings in this series, please unfollow me immediately.

“Did I . . . do something?” He frowned, trying to remember.

Something happened Rand, but honestly even I'm not quite sure what. Genetic memories gave you the willpower necessary to survive? Lanfear did some kind of trick to separate you from the sa'angreal? A safety mechanism within managed to still function after all this time and rejected your connection without a key? The Wheel realized there was literally no logical way to prevent your demise and so just kinda skimmed over what should have happened next?

I seriously have no idea what happened. Makes it hard to talk about this chapter to be honest because even the Wiki only gives me a "he breaks free" explanation and while obviously Rand does get better I'm not sure that "breaks free" is the correct description. I even checked Leigh Butler's reread since that's pretty on-point. Nada.

What the fuck happened here?

The people eyed the newcomers curiously, with no sign of hostility. A few stared a moment longer at Loial, an Ogier walking alongside a horse as big as a Dhurran stallion, but never more than a moment longer.

I doubt very much that there'd be much traffic through here (the Hunters for the Horn mentioned next chapter are clearly exceptional), since there's not really any civilization for miles past this point, but maybe the stories of Ogier hold on a little stronger in these parts since they're such a big part of Cairhien?

“The Nine Rings” had been one of his favorite adventure stories when he was a boy; he supposed it still was.

Now what could that be a reference to?

“I can’t, Selene. The Horn. . . .” He looked around. A man looked out his window across the way, then twitched the curtains closed; evening darkened the street, and there was no one else in sight now except Loial and Hurin. “The Horn is not mine. I told you that.”

Another temptation rejected, I suppose. Poor boy's gotta be doing a lot of that lately, and he's really only going to get worse at it for awhile.

Next time: Light-hearted inn shenanigans.

[killldeer]

daughter of the night liveblog

(books spoilers inside!)

- i really like the elegance and huge size of this weave ishamael does with absolute ease. once again the channeling effects are so much better this season

- ANVAERE MOIRAINE MOMENT???

- i was extremely apprehensive about the moiraine-in-cairhien subplot that we knew was coming, because i am not the biggest fan of the show pushing moiraine as bigger and more important than the EF5 just because of rosamund pike’s starpower, but i have to admit that i am really enjoying this so far

- alanna replacing myrelle is a possibility that scares the shit out of me but that i would wholeheartedly support if the show did it

- hm this is a cool and fucked up way to familiarize the audience with the whole concept of what gentling/stilling does to you!

- i am also extremely intrigued at the way the show is giving logain a large piece of the job that belongs to asmodean in the books, down to being a teacher with essentially no access to saidin

- oh i LOVE this mantle leane is wearing

- “the west is always under attack – usually from itself. I’ve sent sisters to investigate.” cool so those people are all going to end up damane then

- “you know, if she falls, you’ll fall with her.” HELLO??? WHY DID SHE SAY THAT

- okay i am becoming EXTREMELY nervous that the show is planning to cut elaida and give her job to liandrin. like to the point where the only thing keeping me from wholeheartedly believing it is the fact that the writing team has book consultants who should know very well that liandrin being a darkfriend and elaida not being one makes them fundamentally non-interchangeable. egwene’s eventual foil needs to be not of active evil but of selfishness and lack of caring for the tower. it is so vitally important to me that the show does not fuck this up

- “does wolfbrother mean–? am i going to turn into–??” honestly i love that perrin asks if he’s going to become a literal werewolf, both for the audience’s benefit and because it is VERY funny

- first mention of the wolf dream???

- HOPPER!!!

- interesting how obvious and straightforward moiraine’s being asking around about rand

- selene blatantly describing LTT to rand is so so funny

- MAT GAMBLING!!!

- “…was any of it real?” nynaeve :(

- liandrin, maneuvering nynaeve “rash decisions only” al’meara: hey if i tell you something absolutely wild do you promise not to make a rash decision about it :)

- hm so the blatant asking questions wasn’t moiraine playing at daes dae’mar or whatever, it was a setup for us to see anvaere maneuvering her instead. that’s fine too i guess

- ROADTRIP FROM HELL SETUP

- ELAYNE!!!!!

- “egwene wouldn’t hurt me, and you can’t even embrace the source.” i love her so fucking much

- oh god here we go

- i genuinely like this implied background for min so much more than what rj gave her in the books

- not sure what to make of this visit with ishamael but I’m digging it!!

- someone give lanfear a goddamn oscar for the acting she’s doing here

- oh my god this is the funniest way to do this reveal

- THE FINAL SHOT OF LANFEAR WITH THE SAA IN HER EYES!!!!! FUCK YEAH!!!!!!