#shadowhunters discussion

[stxrlighting]

this is how i look trying to make deep analysis in my head on kit and johnny with only 5 scenes at disposal

[kasper-tag]

While I was looking up something on the Shadowhunters Wiki, I stumbled across this little tidbit of information for episode 18:

[Image description: black text on a white background that says: "The use of gold sheets in an intimate Malec scene was intentional, as a reference to the Shadowhunters' use of gold for marriage." End description]

????????

What does that mean?????

I have so many thoughts and feelings about this and I have no idea how to articulate any of them into words???? Help?????

I know what the color symbolism means, just not why they chose to use it in their first time scene

[thomaslightwoodenthusiast]

WHY IS THE FACT THAT THOMAS IS CANONICALLY A GREAT SINGER AND WRITES HIS OWN POETRY ALWAYS FORGOTTEN. WHY DOES NOBODY TALK ABOUT IT. WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

[jrosa82fanposts]

I was going to try talking about a non- tsc related topic but I keep seeing something that's driving me crazy.

SPOILERS FOR CH 1 OF TWP BOOK 1 BELOW

okay so why does everyone assume Dru forgot Ash. Like I can't count the number of times I've had a dream, woken up, and if I didn't think really hard about it, I would forget the whole thing. As far as Dru is aware that one meeting with Ash was like a weird dream or something? (Might be wrong haven't re-read tda recently).

Also it's been over a year since that happened, why would she obsess over a single meeting? Just seems like everyone is assuming the most dramatic outcome and I'm over hear like 'lol Ash is still thinking about her and Dru barely remembers him' (although note she did remember him she just had a moment where she was like "What was that guy's name again?" Which I think is fair because names are hard.

Maybe Ash remembers cause he hasn't got much to occupy his time with while Dru literally had a battle and family drama to think about right after their meeting.

Idk but I hope everyone who thinks that is wrong because that idea would be so "angst for the sake of angst" and I don't need that when Kit and Ty will be giving all the angst with their miscommunication and misunderstandings (very much feel like the Herondales are cursed to suffer angst before they're allowed to be in a happy relationship and I'm not looking forward to that but it is what it is).

This isn't meant to drag anyone's ideas BTW I'd just like someone to give me a deeper analysis on why they think she forgot him when it's something that hasn't been mentioned explicitly (ie we'd need another scene of her meeting Ash soon after and being like "who is this complete stranger and why do i feel like i should know his name?"). Like if Aureline (hope I spelled that right) had made someone keep forgetting her, I feel like it would have been brought up. Feel free to share your thoughts.

<3J

[ladyhindsight]

I think the problem with a lot of CC's characters is that she always tries to make them too nice imo.

She had something going on with Julian but then she backtracked and fumbled it, just like with the og versions of Grace and James we saw in TMH, where Grace straight up threatened someone with a sword and announce her loyalty to her mother, and James was out there shooting people and tricking mundanes -granted we are told that is not his usually behavior but anyone acting like that under any circumstances is not doing all right in the head. Idc what he had going on, I'm sure it was more interesting than TLH James.

Everyone in TLH should have been meaner, actually. There were hints dropped about Thomas and Lucie in gotsm and CoHF iiirc that made me think they were going to be Something. Magnus's comment about how he couldn't save James or Lucie (amounted to nothing in the end btw) and Cassie's insistence of the fact that the modern day Blackthorns were not descended from Lucie made me sure that her plotline was going to be that she resurrected Jesse and they both got immediately executed for it. And there's a point in gotsm where Magnus says that Thomas could be a green eyed monster (also amounted to nothing) and I remember there was a whole theory that he got his marks stripped and that the Rosales were descended from him. The inscription on the Scholomance, the snippet of someone dying in their love's hands, the promise of the Verlacd in TLH... Literally amounted to nothing. How is TLH so half-baked and nonsensical when she had ten years to plan it?

And Tessa, in the first book there are some fascinating gender shaped holes in her narration. About how she and her aunt spent years protecting Nate from seeing the way his gambling made their lives harder and about how they shouldn't have done that, how she saw his recklessness as innocence, how she acknowledged that deep down she always knew he was up to no good... And then Mortmain shows up and she falls back on the established pattern of trying to protect her brother's "innocence" as it was expected from her. And that was good writing; that was something she had done countless times, that was her role as a woman in her society, that was what was expected of her, that was what she knew was wrong and couldn't stop doing.

Sadly, this disappears after the first book. CC probably realized she couldn't have a protagonist that was not a feminist and instead had to take all of the Gender out of Tessa's narration. Like, no, let her confront her Gender and the horror of being trapped in a patriarchal society and being trapped at the whims of those more powerful than her, let us linger on the way the patriarchy also has a hold of Sophie and Charlotte and Jessamine. Let her feel the horror that even if she does leave to live a normal life, she could never have children and thus failed at her expected role in society. Actually have Tessa react when Mortmain tells her she CAN have children and that he intends to force her to give birth to his children. Don't jusg drop that and leave, CC! Linger on the horror of it all!

Jem also annoys me because he is simply too bland, when he shouldn't be! On paper, he should be one of the most interesting characters in TID! A foreigner, addicted to a drug against his will, chronically ill, member of a family with a legendary sword, the only person trusted by the Institute's equivalent of a stray cat that hisses at you every time it sees you. (And don't get me started on Will's curse being a hoax, I hated that.) We could have seen more about his feelings for his homeland, about what he was like under the effects of the drug, his pain... But we don't get that. What we get is him being the Herondales cheerleader, even when he gets his own book (and his pov was the most boring one in it, pass it on). Something that annoyed me irrationally was that he did not raise Emma after the events of TMI, but he does take Kit in after TDA.

This very much feels like CC wanted Emma to be in Los Angeles so she could kickstart the plot. But she could have had Emma go with Jem, then hear about the murders in LA, then go and investigate, and through her hard work being considered the best of her generation as the readers can see the journey; this way having a concrete arc and also being active in her pursuit for revenge.

And having her actively chase what she wants would also make her more distinct from the other heroines. They don't usually pursue stuff, with the exception of Clary taking reckless actions that somehow work out; stuff happens to them.

Emma really does read like a female Jace but I firmly believe that if CC had bothered to develop some other aspects of her personality that were established, like her liking to wear dresses (which is the most CC can write for a female character without the need to vilify or ridicule their femininity) or by actually telling me what her hobbies are, because I cannot remember what Emma likes to do in her spare time. Maybe because I haven't read TDA in so long, most likely because CC never even tells us - I know Julian likes to paint, Dru likes horror movies, Ty likes Sherlock, and so on, but I could not tell you anything about the main character.

And having Emma and Julian separated would also be a good commentary on how the Clave would have not cared about separating the children and make Julian's fears feel more valid. Julian and her could not be parabatai in the "Jem takes Emma timeline" but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make since that plotline DRAGGED.

They could still have a whirlwind romance, that doesn't change. Currently rereading CoHF and the way these two are so obsessed about each other at 12 yo... It's giving Cathy and Heathcliff. Their relationship is going to be that one meme of:

"When their entire relationship is toxic, but they're both so fucked up that it's actually the best case scenario, because subjecting anybody else to either of them would be a human rights violation."

I firmly believe that CC tries to make her characters likeable and as such doesn't venture into making them have opinions and thoughts that could shock the reader. That's why so many of her characters fall into the same boxes. Because she doesn't dare to make them more complex.

The whole of the Shadowhunter Chronicles is just a pile of wasted opportunities, many of which you’ve included here. Character development or delving into many of the rather obvious themes and issues surrounding her characters has never been the precedence. Why focus on thematic organically surrounding Tessa when there is Will to care about? Why make Jem more fleshed out and independent as a character when there is Will to cheer on? Why even deluge yourself with the societal issues, actual taboos, norms—breaking them and forming new ones and changing the world with tough conversations and verbal battles when there is this huuuge MMC/MFC romance that hogs most of the pages and drowns everything else under it?

Clare has created a world with history and concepts and fantastic elements, and she absolutely sucks at implementing any of it into her writing. She doesn’t include tropes, she writes around them.

TLH bunch had way more to them, more contrast and flashier inter-character dynamics. Then the result was what it was because, in the end, everyone has to get along. For instance, Jace isn’t nice either, but that is the reason why the narrative has to go to such lengths for readers to sympathize with him. It actively pushes leniency and sympathy towards Jace whereas other characters are held to a tougher and, in a sense, more realistic standard as to their behavior. Clare wants Jace to be a tormented tough boy but also wants the readers pitying him. Which then molds all the characters around Jace to what Clare wants for him, not what realistic characters being treated like garbage and taken for granted would ever put up with.

Emma can only think she doesn’t really understand what Cristina, Kieran, and Mark got going on together and can only be happy for them, because Emma thinking it’s fucking weird would be too controversial and make people dislike Emma because she doesn’t like or stand polyamory. Every character from TMI gang to TID to TDA to TLH has to stand on the exact same opinion on every issue because that’s the right thing to do, not that a group that size could ever have differing opinions or, horror, dislike each other for some reason. Coming close is James and Grace, and that is mostly ignored either way.

(SIDENOTE: Apparently Clare fucked up the Lightwood family tree by having Alex continue the family line because he was born 1900 and the next known descendant Isidore that is Isabelle and Alec’s great grandfather was born 1908. I kind of hoped that the Secrets of the Blackthorn Hall would’ve sorted this mess out but clearly not. Also: “Alexander inherited the Herondale coloring from his mother of deep blue eyes and black hair. He has a burn scar across his chest from a rune given to him as a baby.” What Herondale coloring is it really when it comes from Linette Owens??)

Anyway.

Your final paragraph was spot on. I also never thought about how Jem didn’t take care of Emma but then goes on to play family with Kit. After CoHF Jem goes to explore the world with Tessa and marry her. He wants to look after Emma but only after the parabatai ceremony with Julian does Jem come clean about his name to Emma. Convenient to say the least.

[fairdale]

fav songs that remind you of kitty?🫶🏻

(this is me just looking for recs really)

okay!! so, i might have gone a bit overboad but i love making playlists and sharing songs and you just gave me the perfect idea soo i did a little something sdklfskl

so basically it goes from kit's childhood, to him discovering he's a shadowhunter, to him falling for ty, to him leaving, to him finding a new family with jem, tessa and mina.

maybe some people won't agree with my choices, but i think they fit his story pretty much (it can be a little open to interpretation which i like) and they sound really good together.

i personally love them, so i hope you do too and that you discover new music to love <3

[thevagabondexpress]

thanks so much for the detail you put into my asks! really was my own fault but got me into the serious brainrot of 'human population vs the earth's resources' in the tscverse. how many downworlders do you think there are? and are most counted on mundane population counts? how about shadowhunters? and can we borrow resources from faerie while our own planet is going to shit? nature seems pretty natural there. maybe they should be our inspo for cities that are very biodiverse but support a large number of people

I do think we could take a lot of inspiration from faeries, yep. And I've wondered about Downworlders and population counts too. On one hand, they ostensibly don't exist to mundanes. On the other, how to you get an apartment or a house or a job if you don't exist? And most are shown to not be homeless.

This tsc-vs-real-world-issues discussion also ties in, oddly, to another thing I've always wanted from TSC but never gotten: some kind of faerie opinion on the Clockwork War. We know what the Magister thought of faeries (that they were too fragile to survive and doomed to extinction on the face of progress) but what did the faeries think of him? Why did they choose not to show up to the fight when one of the factions involved openly expressed that he thought they were all going to die?

[ave-atque-vale-herondale]

also (same anon as before) tell me how you felt about qoaad!! any predictions for twp?

if you haven’t, i recommend reading the novella books:

- the bane chronicles is fun especially if you like magnus.

- tftsa was so cute i loved her (read nothing but shadows before you read tlh)!!

- ghosts of the shadow market is definitely super important for world building for tlh and twp, so i strongly recommend reading it before them (it could be a little boring at times, i admit. but jessa is adorable). read cast long shadows and every exquisite thing before you read tlh. the rest is a lot of world building for kit’s background and jessa.

- OH OH also read the tec series if you haven’t (it follows malec) and i think it’ll eventually connect to twp.

- i believe cassie has these short stories about the tlh cast set before chain of gold. i remember reading them every month on her newsletter before the book came out. i think you can find them on her website? they’re not super important but they do get referenced once in a while in tlh

you probably know all of this and i probably mansplained (can you do that if you’re a girl?) everything 😭 but it’s better to be safe than sorry!! i hope you had fun reading everything and def let me know if you have any questions!

I'm gonna do my best to answer this in a comprehensive manner (let's see how long that lasts lol). You're my fave! (feel free to pop into my messages if you ever wanna chat or anything)

Okay I'm gonna start by saying that I had a strange relationship w TDA. I mentioned some of this in my initial post but I'm just gonna go through everything for continuity sake, if you will. Last summer I intended to finish the 3 series before my semester started. I got through all of TMI and TID but finished only LM and 150-ish pages of LoS. I waited till this summer to pick back up. I remember feeling bitter when I started LM because it was strange to have a modern-set book that didn't focus on my fave TMI gang (I watched the CoB movie religiously when I was younger and, before I knew better, watched the show weekly). It took me a while for Emma to grow on me and I initially had a hard time keeping track of all of the Blackthorns because there were so many of them. What kept me going were all of the connections to Mr. Poe (yes, I just called him that. deal with it.) I've started rambling so let me summarize this portion by saying that TDA didn't snatch me up until mid-LoS. okay, onward.

QoAaD was so reminiscent of CoHF and I loved it very much. WARNING SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO MAY READ THIS FOR SOME UNGODLY REASON. I appreciate the importance of the Thule portion and know the book would be shit without it, but, despite it still being fantastical, the apocalyptic vibe was not my fave. It was nice to get Livvy back for a bit (can I just say how shocking it was to have her death right after Robert? cause I feel like cc v rarely kills important characters so I thought Robert was fulfilling the death requirement yk?) and I LOVE to hate Sebastian. I'm gonna say something crazy here. I love Kit and Kieran more than I love a majority of the Blackthorns. Kit has been my fave character from this trilogy and I am not ashamed to admit it. The entire Ty Livvy spell shit was crazy because I completely felt Kit and wasn't angry at him for not outright saying that it was a bad idea, especially given the situation. I just can't believe cc had me expecting them to be fully in love with each other by then end, ONLY FOR THEM TO NOT EVEN BE ON SPEAKING TERMS (yes I know I need to be up to date w SoBH, I just need business day or two to marinate in my TDA emotions). The battle was epic, Julien's meeting was genius, Kieran is a great king, and the Malec wedding nearly had me sobbing. I'm gonna stop here w my thoughts on QoAaD cause it's getting out of hand. I am so sorry I am typing you up a full essay.

Predictions:

watch cc give us a 3rd plot that gets crazy because of some questionable heavenly fire incident (I mean, technically all three series plots that I've read have involved it if you count Jace's affect on Jem).

I'm super worried about a main character death because I think it would shatter me but it's also probably necessary? idk I dont wanna think about it

I also feel like something crazy is gonna happen to Aline and Helen because although they were literally exiled, nothing too traumatic happened to them in the main line of the story that the reader got to directly experience

not a prediction but truly me BEGGING ON MY KNEES for Jace and Kit content. I need them to be drama Herondales together. Also, Jace literally told him to come to him for personal advice so Jace helping Kit deal w his relationship w/feelings for Ty would be ideal (I really don't know how that would happen but let a person dream)

Final Segment:

Don't worry about mansplaining, youre good bae. I'm in the loop but I'm also not at the same time, if that makes any sense at all (there goes my promise of writing in a comprehensive manner). The only reason I haven't purchased the novellas is solely because it's more efficient for me to purchase a box set of a trilogy. (I do have the Codex and The Denizens of the Downworld books though). CC has done her best to make her world make sense but that woman writes up a storm and no matter what I'm always behind lol.

[drusilla-carstairs]

Is it bad that I didn’t care for kits death?? I was never a huge fan of his just because he’s hard to take serious ._.

I don’t feel comfortable saying it to moots because they love him and i’m scared of their reactions so thanks for letting me vent

This is such a bold take but I’m glad you came to me with it lol.

I do love Christopher, honestly he’s one of my favorite of The Merry Thieves (he was my second favorite but Thomas just got so much better in this book), but I didn’t fully care for his death either, which is the problem.

It didn’t get the emotional weight it deserved. Deaths like Max Lightwood and Sebastian Morgenstern got more screen time and impact than Kit did. I barely even teared up at it, and I can cry at almost any piece of media that has ever existed.

Most of the time spent grieving Kit was with Anna, which makes sense because she is his sister, but we got barely any scenes between Christopher and Anna before this book. Why didn’t we see his parents react? James and Matthew? The whole section for grief was mainly dedicated to J&M being in hell, which sucks.

P.S. I get where you’re coming from with Christopher being hard to take seriously, but honestly I believe in the end he was just supposed to be that. One of those truly good innocent characters that is easy to kill. Which really sucks because he had so much more potential.

[annafromuni]

My Thoughts on Cassandra Clare's The Dark Artifices Trilogy

It has been over a year since I read The Dark Artifices Trilogy by Cassandra Clare, but I wanted to hold off on writing this review because I wanted to get through the original series first. That took longer than expected with the seven-month break between reading the fifth and sixth books. Now that The Mortal Instruments books are all read and I have made my series review of it, which you can…

[livvyofthelake]

ok. i think i’ve said all i need to say about that book. unless anyone has a specific ass question they wanna talk about but i don’t see that happening considering i do not think any of you have read this book <3

[tyblackthornfrog]

i literally can't shut up once shadowhunters becomes the discussion topic. favorite book series? tda. but let me tell you why. favorite fictional character? probably ty blackthorn. BUT LET ME TELL YOU—

[rinadragomir]

My thoughts on the couples included in Better in Black for those who care

I expect you to write down yours so work work

📍Wessa

You know, as a dedicated Jessa stan I wanna say that it's okay~ Because these two were together for 50 years or sth, there's still some things to add. We might watch them in their 30s, 50s, 60s. I guess at this point both camps have around the same amount of content. Plus I'll have Jessa in twp so I'm in peace 🌱

📍Clace

All my first thoughts are over here. I'm a Clace defender, I'm their oldest stan, I'm a veteran👩‍🦳 So I feel like I have a right to say that...it was kinda unnecessary. We've witnessed every step in their relationship so far, beginning of it in TMI, gentle transition to adulthood in TDA and Tales of Shadowhunter Academy, adulthood in SOBH and proposal. So if the story isn't about their wedding then WHAT THE HELL IS IT ABOUT REALLY? And we know that they won't get married until twp.

📍Anna & Ari (Arianna!)

Hey🥺that is nice, we've seen so little of them in chain of thorns and I've loved them since their debut in 2018 in that short story. I'm very biased when it comes to TLH, cause I'm their mother. So YAY🌱they have a long way to go, Anna still needs to change a tiny little bit for them to be healthy, so I'd love to witness it

📍Jordelia

We all have known about it, because Cassie kinda promised us their story a while ago. Wedding runes scene, honeymoon, kids, mortgage etc. Go kids, slay, serve, eat and so on, I'm excited for u!

📍Sebastian & Seelie Queen

🤨🧐🤔👁👁

Yeah... That famous Sebastian &Fanbase. Like... I'm conflicted, because it's useless and doesn't make any sense even tho it might slay. Listen up, I'll show you.

Lots of people defend it by saying that it might be important for Ash's background in TWP. But... No it's not. Because this is exclusive book made for few people who were lucky and financially stable enough to get it. It won't be posted online. So most people won't read it unless someone leaks it. So there's no point for that story to be important for the plot, therefore it has nothing to do with it.

And it's definitely not "one of the most beloved" couples. BUT LIKE... WHAT IF IT SLAYS? Toxic, unhinged romance, what if I'll love it? 🤡

📍Jemma

So you see the problem? Because it's the same as Clace. What else might she add, because there's nothing. SoBH ended like yesterday. We know exactly where they live rn, their daily routine, their plans. So there's nothing to add between SOBH and twp. What will it be about? Hard to say, but I hope Cassie will come up with sth interesting for them.

📍Thomastair (why did Cassie say Alistair instead of Alastair, I'm lost help me)

Yay🥺slay, serve, eat and leave no crumbs, go, kill it idk you're doing great boys, there's so much to add and explore because they've just started dating. I'm so excited ^-^

📍Kierartkina

That is fine. No matter what I think about their relationship, because in my point of view Cristina and Kieran fell in love because Cassie said so apparently, I still don't mind them being there. Because there's also lots of things to discuss and explore. I hope the story will be soft and warm☀they've just started their advantage so it definitely makes sense

📍Sizzy

Even though we've had lots of them in TMI and Shadowhunters Academy I still think they deserve to be here. They are famous (I guess? 👁👁) and I'd like to know more about their plans for future. Simon was still a teenager in the stories collection and now I'd love to see him as a grown man being in relationship with the woman he loves.

📍Luke & Jocelyn

👁👁🤨🧐🤔👀

Well... That was... Unexpected. I guess... I've just never met their fandom but I hope it's huge af, because I don't know why else would they be here. Sophideon, Gabrily and Charlotte with Henry were supposed to be here, let's be honest. But since they're here, I do think Cassie is able to make a decent story. I expect it to be bittersweet, angsty and somehow heartwarming. I think there's nothing to say except let's wait and find out.

OVERALL I think it's pretty fine. Maximum 7/10 from me. I was ready to face the worst, but it turned out to be... Fine. So it's fine☺🌱

[ladyhindsight]

Hi, I saw that previous ask that was sent by someone else about the parallels between the Shadowhunter society and Israel and it reminded me about the way that Cordelia is portrayed in TLH. When CC initially said that there would be Iranian characters (Cordelia and Alastair) in TLH (before the series was released), she was asked on her tumblr blog if these characters would be Muslim. She said that they cannot be Muslim because Shadowhunters do not follow any religion therefore they are all atheist. But this was really strange to me because in all of her books, the characters reference God a lot, their swords are named after angels in the bible, they are always quoting bible verses, and they also reference events that happened in the bible. So it always seemed like to me that the entire shadowhunter society was based off of religion. If Shadowhunters are all atheist then why are they always talking about God and the bible? In TMI, it’s stated that the two first Shadowhunter parabatai were Jonathan and David who were close as brothers; this is referencing Jonathan and David from the bible. It’s stated that the entire Shadowhunter race was founded when the angel Raziel mixed his angel blood with human blood which means that in this universe angels are REAL. I also think it was stated that Raziel was sent down by God or something but I can’t remember. the demons of hell (Asmodeus, Belial, etc) are also real. Hell is real as well apparently.

So basically the implications of this are that Cordelia assimilated into the Shadowhunter religion rather than her own. Since she’s a Shadowhunter that means she’s half angel.. so of course she can’t be Muslim because her entire existence disproves that in CC’s view. So since CC chose to make angels and God real in her universe, and also saying that Cordelia and Alastair cannot be Muslim, what is she even trying to say?? That God and angels and the bible are real but other religions aren’t??

Not to mention that Cordelia and Alastair are half white by father and have English first and last names (just like all of CC’s characters of colour..)

The faith of Raziel has been a previous discussion point on the blog years past, so I'll reiterate some points here. The topic has rared its head every now and then again, mostly because it is inconsistent and senseless and pretty insensitive to the whole concept of religion.

Clare created a religion for the Shadowhunters to follow, to believe in Raziel as their angelic creator, and formed some base rules for it, which essentially are that Shadowhunters have their own religion and thus don't practice others, and the Ascendants have to convert from the any previous religion to the one of the Nephilim. When discussing Sona, it is stated that "some Islam and Qur’an stories have been blended into Sona’s beliefs, though she is not exactly Muslim as Shadowhunters do not conform to any mundane religion and have their own where they worship Raziel." Which is still yeah, alright, but the whole faith in Raziel is still contradictory at best.

How can you draw so much religious inspiration while at the same time divorce yourself from it completely? The Nephilim religion is based on their creation, mundane religions also based on creation myths, so how is the Nephilim one the one everyone has to adhere to when all the stories are true? It's ludicrous that the Shadowhunters are brought up with such doctrines as "all the stories are true", basically act atheistic, but also at the same time demand other people from other religion to join their faith instead and adhere to their doctrines in which you wouldn’t necessarily believe in.

It seems "all the stories are true" don't apply to religion but fantasy elements such as witches, warlocks, vampires, werewolves, and faeries. With religion (Abrahamic ones to be exact), Clare is being picky.

The Shadowhunters aren't even particularly religious themselves, they have no culture or customs surrounding the faith of Raziel, no rites or holidays or sacred traditions or anything. They might as well be atheistic in the sense that none of the characters, sans Cristina (and her family?), practice the Nephilim religion. But even with Cristina, how does her faith show other than her belief in angels and her religious medallion she wears? Clare not being particularly religious is really reflected on the fact that not much though went into this. Previously when discussing Jonathan Shadowhunter, I said that:

Jonathan’s country of origin is never told, but of course from when the map was what it was during the Crusades. Not that it really matters because we can pretty much deduce they were Europeans since the First Crusade was initiated by the Latin Church and was partaken by the contemporary European kingdoms and empires. There’s also the fact that the roots of the birth of the Nephilim are in religious wars, and trying to remove Jonathan Shadowhunter and the origin of the Nephilim from that is evasive. Okay, let’s leave this thing here and go do this completely other stuff, totally didn’t just try to invade another land and get distracted. It’s interesting to note some liberties authors and filmmakers take when it comes to representing a part of some culture, religion, or myths. What makes inspiration differ from misrepresentation and all that. The wiki states that: “Jonathan then transformed his sister, Abigail, and his friend, David, into Shadowhunters. Inspired by the tale of their coincidental biblical namesakes, Jonathan and David took that story and became the first parabatai, performing a ritual where they took each other’s blood, spoke the oath, and inscribed the runes upon each other.” In Books of Samuel, Jonathan and David, bonded by a strong friendship, form a covenant by taking a mutual oath. “Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself.” It’s funny that an author writes their coincidental biblical namesakes when there is absolutely nothing coincidental about it. It isn’t just that Clare was inspired by the writings in the Old Testament, she outright writes that her characters took that story, being coincidentally named the same, and created the parabatai bond based on it. They acted on religious texts. And of course, Jonathan’s sister just happened to be named after the second wife of King David. [...] Why is their faith so centered on Raziel alone when their universe is obviously filled with other god-like beings and entities? I guess it’d be fine if Raziel was worshiped as a patron but didn’t exclude other faiths and the Nephilim didn’t outright demand you to just drop the religion you practice. Why is it suddenly the Shadowhunters’ business what you can worship and what not? There plenty of polytheistic religions so why can’t the Shadowhunters be polytheistic too? It’s nothing away from worshiping Raziel.

Clare made ground rules for the Nephilim religion but failed to ask the follow up question that essentially makes the basis crumble. Let's even consider Jace Herondale who first said that he does not believe in angels or a god. As the series progress, it becomes all the more evident and rather glaringly so that angels (Ithuriel) and Raziel himself/themselves(?) are very real. Jace experiences no growth or acknowledgment as to this. When Jace is faced with Lilith, he throws her and Sammael's love and Sammael's earlier demise at hands of the archangel Michael at her face, names his angel blade Michael when fighting Lilith, but at no point do we really see how did we get from point A to point C where any of this contradictory behavior is realized or discussed between the characters. Or even acknowledged that holy shit, these biblical beings actually exist.

Hell, even The Last Hours has God (or a god?) himself smiting down Belial, a fallen angel, and NO ONE EVEN BATS AN EYE. Most Shadowhunters are really apathetic towards heaven-level stuff happening right in front of them. In some other older post I said:

The thing that strikes me as particularly odd is that they constantly cite the Bible, and their oaths—the parabatai one, for instance, from the Old Testament—are of biblical origin, and Jonathan Shadowhunter himself was told to be a crusader, yet none of it is considered Jewish or Christian. Angels are inherently religious beings, and Abrahamic religions and whatnot where they appear are far older institutions than Shadowhunters are as a race. I just don’t see it as a good idea to draw so much from their religious mythology but completely cut ties with their spirituality and meaning.

[Here's a link to a post compiling some of the earlier pondering on this mess.] If you want, you can also check my Jonathan Shadowhunter tag, I've been sent some great thoughts about him and the Nephilim creation.

Part of the problem also lies, once again, within the worldbuilding, the major lack thereof, because I don't think materializing the Princes of Hell was in the early plans for Clare, at least considering books 1-3 of The Mortal Instrument. None of it was essential to her nor a primary objective in the development of the Shadowhunting world.

[lurafita]

Malec meet pre-canon divergent

(considering tv-show canon only, as I don't know much about the books) I personally found it a little weird that Alec and his siblings had to be briefed about the High Warlock of their territory, by Hodge. Shouldn't Alec, as the acting head, have been aware of the most prominent downworld leaders in the city his institute is in? Wouldn't Magnus have been in the institute before, for ward maintenance or things like that? Wouldn't they have had to call him to close rifts that demons were popping out of? (Not like those kinds of things were ever shown or discussed in the show, but then again, the show was very stingy where details and backgrounds were concerned.) Anyway, I would like to propose a series re-write, where Alec and Magnus get to know each other pre-canon, and Magnus has the chance to bolster Alec's self-worth and confidence a little. And then exploring what effect this might have, as Alec wouldn't be such a pushover where his siblings are concerned. (I actually just really like re-writes of given plots that explore changes to said given plot, so that personal guilty pleasure might heavily play into this prompt…. 😉 )

possible scene:

They could meet on site for rift closure, and Alec is laying down a plan of attack, because some demons have already gathered. And then Jace is trying to propose another plan (that's less tactical than Alec's was and more of a 'run in head first' kinda deal). And Alec is not confident about his own plan versus Jace's, and he is about to give in, but then Magnus is like: "I agree with the pretty boy." And Jace smirks and goes: "See, the high warlock thinks it will work." And then Magnus goes: "Oh no, I was talking about his plan. Yours sucks."

-

I think, if a relationship between them (platonic heading for romantic) exists for some time, Magnus would probably let slip about Maryse and Robert having been in the circle. Not in a malicious way. I think Magnus assumed that Alec knew. So maybe one day Magnus offers to check over the wards, and Alec accepts and wonders loudly about why his parents didn’t commission check ups for two years,

and Magnus just "Well, they have tried to limit their business with downworlders as much as possible. Which isn't surprising, seeing as many of us feel that they haven't been sufficiently punished for their crimes while they were in the circle. But it's not as if I would have refused the job. I might have overcharged them, … Alexander? You look pale, is something wrong?"

-

I just see them having lots of little conversations that help build Alec up, while not just being simple compliments. Like, when Alec doubts his leadership qualities and asks Magnus about his opinion, as Magnus has fought in a few wars and known a few figureheads. "I believe being a good leader comes down to knowing and trusting in yourself." "Shouldn’t that be 'knowing and trusting my people'?" "That, too. But it's important to know your own strengths and weaknesses. For example, I'm one of the most powerful warlocks out there with a deep and varied understanding of my craft, and I look dashing in silk. I'm also impatient, occasionally vain, and I can be quite petty. Now what about you? Let me start you off. You are afraid." "Wow, didn’t think you would start with a weakness." "I didn’t. Well, maybe a little bit. Fear can be both. But in this case, I meant it as a strength." "How?" "Think back to our first meeting. The fear of not knowing what the situation was we were walking into, made you come up with a strategy that allowed us to assess what was going on, while also ensuring minimal collateral damage. What do you think would have happened had you been as cocky as your parabatai, and stormed right in?" "… We wouldn’t have known about the circle members, or the back entrance. The perimeter wouldn’t have been secured. The teen warlock might have become a victim to a shadowhunter blade, had you not had the chance to see the enslavement collar on her." "See? You have good instincts, Alexander, and a great mind for tactical manouvers. That is something you should trust in more."

[keepxsolxinxsolxinvictus]

Malec (aka Matthew Daddario and Harry Shum Jr.) Say Goodbye to 'Shadowhunters'...for Now

On that epic finale, fandom, and weddings...onscreen and off.

By Emily Tannenbaum

Published: May 07, 2019

[Bringing back an oldie from Cosmopolitan]

As I corral Harry Shum Jr. and Matthew Daddario around the Cosmo offices, Matt bounces on his heels, pointing to random objects—like a fancy golden coffee table and fuzzy pillows—asking me if he can bring them home with him (the answer is always "no"). Harry is much more calm, back straight and confident, happy to just laugh at his co-star.

It's jarring how their roles are almost the reverse of their characters: For the last three years on Freeform's hit series Shadowhunters (based on The Mortal Instruments, by Cassandra Clare). Matt played Alec Lightwood, the stoic half-angel leader with a heart of gold, while Harry embodied the eccentric Warlock Magnus Bane, always moving, portaling somewhere or changing his look...not to mention throwing shit around his beautiful New York apartment.

As they say, opposites attract, and Matt and Harry captured the hearts of the entire Shadowhunters fandom as a certified power couple. Malec has certainly had their share of rom-com moments (they share their first kiss when the warlock crashed Alec's first wedding) and dramatic breakups (don't remind me about 2X18). But last night, Shadowhunters gave Malec the happy ending they deserve, complete with gorgeous wedding and happily ever after as the Inquisitor of the Clave and High Warlock of Alicante.

A wedding finale is hardly unheard of in the TV world, bordering on cliché, but for Shadowhunters there was truly no other option. The union of a strong gay man and proud bisexual has been the cornerstone of this fandom throughout its run, inspiring countless LGBTQ+ fans and landing a GLAAD Award for Outstanding Drama (not to mention sweeping the 2018 People's Choice Awards the same year as its premature cancellation). How else do you celebrate their legacy, if not by throwing a giant party and giving our boys one more showstopping kiss?

Of course, as surreal as it is to discuss the end of Shadowhunters with the ship to end all ships, it's even tougher for them to say goodbye. Here, Matt and Harry talk about the Malec wedding, balancing fandom with real life, and why Alec had to stay mortal.

The Malec Wedding

Tell me about the wedding. You’ve built this relationship for three years now, and you’ve seen how massively people have reacted—what did it feel like to give them that milestone?

Harry Shum Jr.: It had to happen. It was a great moment to bring everyone in and say, "Look at this joyous moment."

It was nice to have everybody back on-set. It really felt both, for the show itself and for us as a whole, that this was a great ending. Because it was the last thing we filmed. I'm happy that we got these two episodes so that we could do it because it would have been really unfortunate if the fans hadn't gotten that wedding. And then fans can play in their heads now, Magnus and Alec are married and doing whatever.

Matthew Daddario: You know, it's like the end of a chapter.

Harry: We're safe now.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but Alec is just a Shadowhunter still? He's not immortal.

Matt: Just a Shadowhunter? [Laughs] Yes, I am.

Some fans were really rooting for Immortal Husbands...like, intensely. How do you feel about this?

Matt: This is the thing I always have trouble understanding is that people want the immortality. And this is a topic that's been written about and discussed for thousands of years, and everyone comes to the same conclusion: the curse of immortality. It is not always the best thing in the world to live forever. In fact, that's close to this kind of a godliness that is considered almost like a living hell.

For Magnus, he's living and living in this endless loop without the repercussion of the totality of life. And if Magnus was instead mortal, would we not celebrate their wonderful life? But it's because he's immortal, we worry about what happens after the fact.

Matt: Right. You can get killed. They're immortal, and then they get the shot off the top of the castle walls, and you're like, "Whoa, that's screwed up." But at the same time, every mortal has to deal with that. [Turns to Harry] So it's not your mortality that you're upset about when you first lost your powers. You're not upset about the mortality, you're upset about the loss of your identity.

Harry: But here’s the difference: It’s not the immortality that you get shot and you can’t die.

Some fans just want Malec on an even playing field. But I find it really sad that Alec would have to live and lose like Jace and Izzy—

Matt: Right. Magnus lost people constantly, and he was kind of a shell of a person at one time. Up until meeting Alec, he's filling his life with debauchery, anything to heighten the senses. And, you know, trying to find places where he can take care of people. And he does get involved with helping vampires because they're immortal as well. There is a kind of emptiness to him in the first season.

Harry: No, for sure. And I think then there is the big switch.

Did you get emotional reading the final episode?

Harry: Everyone did at the table read. One of our producers reading off the narration, he couldn't even get through and actually walked out and someone had to take over. And then there was this silence in the end when the last words were spoken. I think that silence spoke volumes.

Has the end of Shadowhunters hit home for you yet?

Matt: I think it will hit me when I don't think about it for a week. If one week passes without me thinking about Shadowhunters, I will say, "Shit."

We think about it every day. This is a huge part of our lives. This is three years of this. And this show, it's a hit. People are talking about it, people from around the world. It's hard to deny that.

Will you still engage with Shadowhunters stans, or are you emotionally ready to move on to another world?

Matt: Look, we're done filming Shadowhunters, but the fans of the show are always welcome to ask questions and all that kind of stuff. But eventually, we're going to run out of new answers.

I'm always happy to talk to a Shadowhunters fan because they are enthusiastic, they care about what they're talking about, and many of them have built friendships off of it, so it matters to them, and therefore it matters to me.

Harry: Because you gave a part of your life.

Matt: Your job is to have an effect on people, and therefore you have a certain responsibility to engage with the people who are affected by this. You can choose not to, you could choose to go completely incognito or to ignore it, but to dismiss it is, frankly, insulting and kind of silly and maybe slightly narcissistic.

But I think that you do need to have an understanding that you're not any different or special because of this involvement with culture. And why would you want to be miserable about it? Why wouldn't you embrace it?

Matt, you kept your own wedding a secret until your one-year anniversary. Was it harder to keep the details of the finale secret or your wedding?

Matt: [Laughs] It was definitely easier to keep the wedding secret. I just told everyone no one's allowed to take photos. And people did a pretty good job with that.

Harry: Yeah, sometimes I think it's a nice...regardless of what your profession is, but particularly ours, to have something just for yourself.

Matt: Not to say that people don't deserve to know, but I think that anybody would feel like, hey, I would like this moment just to be mine for a little bit.

People can be a little bit demanding. One time this girl is walking down the street, I'm walking down the street, she's on the phone, it's the middle of the day, she's FaceTiming somebody.

She sees me, she stops me by the touching me on the shoulder and says, "Oh, whoa, wait, look! Look who's here!" and hold the phone up like this and goes, "Crazy!" and then keeps walking. And I'm like, fuck you. Like, what the fuck?! [Laughing] You don't do that to someone.

It just felt so invasive. It just feels a little bit like, you're not a human. You're the thing I see on TV. But I guess it's just excitement, whatever.

You obviously know about the #SaveShadowhunters campaign. What would you say if suddenly, some other network wanted to pick up the show?

Harry: I think it's a conversation. You know, we love playing these characters. But as time passes, things change. Like introducing a baby into your life, or whatever the next phase is.

But it's also a wonderful group of people. So, of course, instead of saying, "Absolutely not," it's definitely open for conversation for me.

Matt: Honestly, the ending is successful. And, you know, there's a danger now. What if you screw it up? [Laughs]