#seonid/alliandre

[romans-art]

anyway they're on my mind

[roman-writing]

the rules of scarcity

Fandom: The Wheel of Time

Pairing: Seonid Traighan / Alliandre Maritha Kigarin

Rating: E (smut)

Wordcount: 11,401

Summary: A young Lady Alliandre attends the Crown High Council of Ghealdan and discovers new faces around the table.

Author's notes: spoilers for minor character names only. No book spoilers as this is set a few years before The Eye of the World

read it here on AO3

[moghedien]

ok who are seonid (?) and alliandre (??) and why are they super gay for each other 👀 you have no idea how hard it is not to google them but i learned my lesson after i made the biggest mistake ever and typed in siuan 💀 and then did it again with moiraine 💀💀

Seonid Traighan is an Aes Sedai of the Green Ajah and Alliandre is the Queen of Ghealdan (the country that Logain is from). Both show up in the later books more I believe and admittedly I don't know a ton about them. I'm reminding myself of who they are on the wiki right now (and yeah don't google them)

Seonid is canonically a lesbian I believe (the books say she "doesn't like men as men" and has more of a brother/sister relationship with her warders). Alliandre I don't know if they ever mentioned her sexuality outright. I'm honestly not 100% sure if they ever even interact in the books, HOWEVER, I do believe that they have canonically been in a relationship at some point. I think it comes mostly from Robert Jordan's notes, and isn't directly said in the books, but might be alluded to? Like there isn't gonna be content about them in the books so don't get too excited about that.

I don't know, I'm honestly a very bad person to ask about them specifically. I just don't remember a bunch about them, but I know there's a ton of people on here that do and who make content about them. There's not any particular reason I don't know a lot of it, I just don't. I'm bad at remembering names of WoT characters who aren't like the main 50 ones.

So yeah, from what I understand, the relationship is technically canon, but pretty much all of the content about it comes from fandom.

Anyone of you people who know more about them feel free to correct me or add information to this post because I would also like to know more, just please don't get too spoilery for the anon's sake if they read it

[amemoryofwot]

RJ: writes one sentence in his notes about Alliandre and Seonid having had a relationship

Me, about to make it my whole personality:

[alectology-archive]

TPoD chapters 7, 8, 9, 10:

I’m done! and this was the worst fucking experience of my life! I’m never rereading any of Perrin’s plotlines, sorry. It was far worser than I remember it being.

consensus is still out on whether or not perrin is interested in berelain. I understand his noticing her perfume - he can’t help that. I don’t vibe with him saying she needs to dress a certain way or deliberately trying to pick out hints of flirtation when she’s literally just discussing their next course of action. 

- It is so weird to see perrin talking about how he only gets along with and trusts grady and neald and doesn’t trust any of the women in his group. partly because they have differing opinions about how to go about accomplishing certain tasks. it’s also really weird that this happens on the heels of dumai’s wells where the asha’man brutally slaughtered the shaido, too. the gender essentialism in this series really brings down its overall quality. Another point to note is the fact that perrin gets along with the the two guys who’ve been taught (by rand) to cultivate no personality apart from being soldiers + he avoids any actual interaction with people who have strong opinions. 

- I think I don’t like reading about faile when she’s around perrin sadfjkdhf - it’s like perrin’s default mode is managing to push some trigger that manages to piss her off. I like her and think she could’ve been a great character if she’d never interacted with perrin though. And although I complain about the shaido plot a lot faile’s POVs in it were fantastic - partly because she’s divorced from Perrin’s presence - and were such a treat to read.

- honestly this section of his POV is kind of pointless. I don’t think there’s any need for faile, seonid + wise ones and berelain to fight for the right to approach alliandre - rand specifically chose berelain to approach her with annoura! But narratively it does do a very good job of establishing the fact that there are many power dynamics at play here, which I think that was what RJ might have been trying to establish.

seonid is so gay

He’s fully making shit up at this point. Just let her exist, oh my god. Why is he looking for a flirtation in every gesture??? Literally it’s hard to not believe that Perrin fully encourages Berelain to keep hitting on him.

evidence not found. this is a telling more than a showing so far.

- Morgase is another female character who gets caught up in this useless plot ugh. It’s just trauma sequences after trauma sequence for Morgase and I pity her so much.

This is with reference to morgase just because she was very mildly rude to him despite his insisting that aram not call him a lord moments before - also I don’t like the way perrin talks about women yeuch

- I think RJ being a “discover as I write” sort of writer does affect how he writes a lot - there are some clarifications for plot that don’t necessarily always make sense later on. there are also introductions to things characters struggle with without any real basis for it and sometimes manages to be all over the place - mostly perrin and his relationship with violence and responsibility was done very badly (the show does better on the front but it obviously had a whole established canon to work with already which is always an easier task).

- masema & the cult plotline is integral to exploring the various facets of how the dragon reborn affects the cultural and religious landscape in the continent, just like how the seanchan are important narratively to explore how a flipped power dynamic between channelers and non channelers would look. rand is not a saviour - RJ hammers that point in constantly - but he plays a role that’s very closely associated with saviourism since a) it’s so tied up with the struggle versus good and evil b) has a history of false dragons fashioning themselves as saviours, so cults are naturally a very interesting angle to explore. but also like every other plotline perrin touches, it fails to be dealt with in any interesting way. I genuinely enjoyed what we saw of it in TFoH and I hate that it eventually deteriorates into a mess.

where is the struggle against violence. I just don’t get it. why is killing with a hammer better than killing with an axe? I still don’t get it.

perrin: killing? violence? I don’t care. I’ll do it all for faile. 

ugh. I guess that is the point of the whole shaido arc but I still can’t bring myself to care about it.

and yet.jpg. why is it that perrin is obsessing over his followers not following his orders to the T while he’s disregarding all of rand’s instructions? I hate him so much. 

Well! my earlier point stands! why the fuck does perrin get along with them better than with the women. lol.

- I hate SO much that the mantheren plotline was passed on to perrin. I hate it!! on principle I can’t stand the thought of a dead nation being resurrected in that fashion because it falls back on uncomfortable ideas of (mostly) autocratic rulers using history to justify their rule and manipulate people into accepting it. I also hate that it gets rid of the semi-democratic rule the two rivers had. but there were ways in which it could’ve been executed well - I really liked how the band of the red hand was sort of resurrected in the same fashion (although that was mostly a symbolism thing, obviously). in conclusion: give the plotline back to mat!!

- Arrela! hi! she’s described as “tall and dark” and masculine. one of THE canonical lesbians. 

I mean at least Faile looks out for the people who follow her. Perrin has exactly ONE guy who’s super attached to him and he manages to let even him down.

- TBH a plot mostly focussed on convincing Alliandre to join them and seeing the women do politics in Ghealdan - and also potentially dealing with a more whitecloack/amadicia focused plot - would have been a far more interesting plotline than Perrin wandering around the countryside trying to save his kidnapped wife.

- ohhh now that perrin mentioned them I’m sad we didn’t see more of the algai’d’siswai! they were just as fascinating as the prophet plotline still was back in book 5 but RJ just kind of forgot about it. 

- Faile convinces perrin not to inform rand about news of seanchan in amador because ‘maighdin’ tells her that messengers and pigeons were carrying the news anywhere. Hand Of The Author, I see you. Rand needed that news! How long would it take an asha’man to inform him and hop back to ghealdan? why is travelling never used to the extent it should be in the books?

here’s a suggestion! stop smelling her all the time! A person’s thoughts on a matter will never necessarily reflect what they’re feeling because emotional responses are at the very best knee-jerk reactions and can’t be controlled or modulated the way logic can be!

- I can’t emphasise this enough but their ‘romance’ is non-existent. They make terrible partners! They’re too different to make things work. (This is not to say people who’re unalike can’t get along - but Perrin and Faile are no Elayne and Aviendha).

- I do like Lini as a character but I think my fondness for her dropped significantly after she tried to have morgase and tallanvor forcibly married. I hate it so much, and I don’t really like that she’s so rude and forceful with morgase after everything she endured in amador - I do get that she’s concerned that their cover will be blown, but... I refuse lol. I don’t like this plotline. morgase should’ve gone back to caemlyn - faile would’ve still shone in her shaido plotline even if morgase hadn’t been a part of it. I hate powerful women suddenly being shoved into servant-master dynamics!!! it happened with siuan once already! why aren’t the men forced to do such things?

- I do genuinely believe RJ enjoyed writing his women a lot but I don’t like his choice to make women inflict shame on themselves as a form of punishment in order to repent their actions. It goes hand in hand with a lot of (evil) female characters ending up enslaved & the female forsaken being abused to be taught a lesson. 

- ‘Tallanvor was too young’ sir, you literally paired moiraine and thom & gareth and siuan & morgase and thom 😭

(with reference to seonid and masuri being apprentices)

I think. I think brandon sanderson came up with the idea that an apprentice should just Know when they’re fit to be a wise one. I definitely got that feeling while I was reading the books because it was such a Brandon Sanderson thing and kind of nonsensical, honestly. It was just a ploy to keep aviendha away from rand in the gathering storm. ugh, I’m going to blame him for min and aviendha not bonding too. 

- If a man uses the word ‘wench’ he goes down on my shit list! so elyas is on my shit list! if he wasn’t already, for being the source which delivers the news that saldaean women like their husbands to take a firm hand with them or whatever.

- was I always predisposed to disliking perrin because I hate werewolves? possibly.

- alliandre!!!!

WHATEVER WAS NECESSARY TO SECURE THE ALLIANCE, BASICALLY??? What else would berelain tell alliandre -

- honestly shout out to alliandre for making the best of so many terrible situations. she had to deal with the prophet, the threat of the seanchan, the threat of rand once he conquered illian, and then perrin trying to ‘raise manetheren’ and the shaido.

and yet he gets mad when faile is less subtle when she’d trying to guide/influence him.

- worldbuilding notes: perrin can apparently smell desperation but not guilt, lol.

lmaoooo I actually did enjoy this faile POV a lot since perrin wasn’t in it! even if she and berelain sort of bickered! but it wasn’t annoying at all, and was kind of fun, actually.

- Berelain supports faile when she’s discussing politics with alliandre even if faile just technically insulted her! I love her.

faile, that’s gay.

- Berelain is very pleased with one of faile’s manipulations of alliandre!

[Total count for the number of times berelain tried pursuing perring romantically in the path of daggers: 0]

Yeah, I think I’m going to stick with the line that perrin never gives berelain a firm no. Would this have stopped her from pursuing him? It’s hard to say because she’s angling for political advantage, but faile mentions that perrin conducts himself as if he believes he’s a prize that berelain and faile have to struggle over. And he’s constantly using his enhanced senses to predict what faile is feeling instead of asking her what she’s thinking which are two very different things! I just. I honestly don’t know how RJ could have enjoyed writing any of his POVs, lol, they’re so boring and full of contrived conflicts. He should’ve killed perrin off in the middle of the series because it would’ve done a good job of building tension (although he probably would have never done that even if he’d considered it since he’d established that perrin and mat would play integral roles to secure rand’s success in the last battle).

[ephemeral-winter]

I laughed at being called tf out for not saying my wot polycule in the tags so here it is: Edarra/Seonid/Alliandre/Berelain/Faile

yooooooooo

[wot-tidbits]

RJ’s notes Part 41 by WOT Ethnographer

Aes Sedai part 1

Lelaine Akashi

Raised head of the Blue Ajaha 999 NE (age 172) after the death of the former head during the fight after Siuan was deposed.” So, apparently, the former head of the Blue died in the White Tower coup.

Zemaille Amassa

In Zemaille’s entry, she has an interesting “future” comment: “One of the three Sea Folk sisters, probably the youngest, may chose to remain an Aes Sedai” This seem to show that it was the plan of RJ that Sea Folks sisters would possibly be allowed to chose to leave the Aes Sedai in the future, and that some might chose to stay.

Demire Eriff

Demire spent nine years as a novice and eight years as Accepted. Per the notes, she “took so long as novice and Accepted in part because she was always burying herself in book instead of studying.”

Tarna Feir

“Surprisingly, she will be part of Pevara redirecting the Red Ajah. this doesn't mean she is a nice woman; she isn't. She's a flaming bitch on wheels, in fact, but she has brains, she has a sense of justice (in a harsh way), and she truly loves the White Tower. And perhaps most oddly of all, she regrets that wilders are so often too old to enter the Tower by the time they are found; she would like to see the unofficial age limits raised considerably.”

Temaile Kinderodre,

A bit more about her crazy tendencies: “She would have fit right in as an apprentice of Semirhage”

Shemerin Sedai

Shemerin was the one who “talked to Nynaeve” about the Yellow Ajah including the emergency signal for a Yellow agent.

A bit more about her “Her abilities with Healing, and even more her high skill as an administrator and her deft hand in politics (as an analyst and planner, not a doer; she never did well in confrontations), allowed her to achieve a fair degree of respectability among the Yellow Ajah, and among the Ajahs as a whole.

Despite the above, some of the loyalist sitters were at least somewhat surprised that she was chosen as a representative for the Yellow in the actions surrounding Siuan Sanche, and later to "advise" Elaida. Her choice, in fact, was part of the "plan" going on among the leaders of the Ajah; the Yellows saw her as expendable, in a way. if necessary, while still having the right sort of mind, they thought, to deal with and report on the situation. Her "expendability" was part of the reason that the Yellow did not fight harder to keep the shawl on her shoulders”

The watergate Shemerin used will be the way in for Siuan, Gareth, Gawyn, and the party seeking to rescue Egwene”.

Pevara Tazanovi,

“She was definitely not involved in the death of Sierin Vayu, but she may have her suspicions about it.”

Morvrin Thakanos

“She could have moved faster as novice and Accepted both, but her questions, skeptical nature held her back in instruction, especially as a novice, where girls are expected to accept what they are told with no questioning at all and instant obedience.”

“She is considered one of the best, if not the best, researchers among the Brown sisters, which means among the sisters. She has almost a Talent for fitting together facts from disparate sources to form a pattern, and then seeing what that pattern means.”

Seonid Traighan

“Seonid has had a relationship with Alliandre (who is bisexual); this has been intermittent, but it played a part in approaching and dealing with Alliandre. This was why she was able to get to Alliandre and to gain her acquiescence so quickly.”

The Green Ajah

There is some interesting piece about the hierarchical structure of the Green Ajah, which has about “180” members in the series and “(38 black?)” Ajah members:

“Hierarchical Structure Rather military, in an order of 1, 2, 4, 16, 32. The authority of the head of the Ajah is quite thorough and far-reaching. The rest, approximately 125 or so, come under this last level. Thus the "basic unit" is 5 sisters,. Or the lowest level is roughly 167, with "basic units" of 10 or 11 under of the 16 to make 16 possible circles, number 11 or 12 each.

In the sections about Amyrlins, it is noted that Sereille Bagand was “certainly the strongest Amyrlin in the last 1000 years.”

[roman-writing]

the rules of scarcity (3/4)

Fandom: The Wheel of Time

Pairing: Seonid Traighan / Alliandre Maritha Kigarin

Rating: E (smut)

Wordcount: 13,243

Summary: A young Lady Alliandre attends the Crown High Council of Ghealdan and discovers new faces around the table.

Author's notes: Once again this chapter got away from me in length and I felt like I was rushing the ending. Long story short, we’re at 4 chapters now. Last time I split a chapter i stg

read it here on AO3

[roman-writing]

the rules of scarcity (ch 2/3)

Fandom: The Wheel of Time

Pairing: Seonid Traighan / Alliandre Maritha Kigarin

Rating: E (smut)

Wordcount: 18,584

Summary: A young Lady Alliandre attends the Crown High Council of Ghealdan and discovers new faces around the table.

Author's notes: this was only supposed to be 2 parts but then part 2 was getting so long that I split it in half.

Also this chapter involves: inadvisable uses of the One Power + strap ons (green ajah secret strap weave #confirmed)

read it here on AO3

[roman-writing]

the rules of scarcity (4/5)

Fandom: The Wheel of Time

Pairing: Seonid Traighan / Alliandre Maritha Kigarin

Rating: E (smut)

Wordcount: 15,497

Summary: A young Lady Alliandre attends the Crown High Council of Ghealdan and discovers new faces around the table.

Author's notes: I'm a lying liar who split the chapter AGAIN. this is the fic that never ends. kill me.

read it here on AO3

[romans-art]

Seonid placed her fingers beneath Alliandre's chin and tilted her head up with a touch more akin to a suggestion. Alliandre complied without a trace of resistance. In the glossiness of dim candlelight with night fallen through the windows behind her, Seonid was shadowed and gold-wreathed, all gilded at the edges.  (x)

[roman-writing]

the rules of scarcity (5/5)

Fandom: The Wheel of Time

Pairing: Seonid Traighan / Alliandre Maritha Kigarin

Rating: E (smut)

Wordcount: 16,384

Summary: A young Lady Alliandre attends the Crown High Council of Ghealdan and discovers new faces around the table.

Author's notes: It's done fr this time.

read it here on AO3

[roman-writing]

lads, chapter 2 of this Seonid/Alliandre fic is already 16.5k long and I feel like I barely reached halfway

[alectology-archive]

well remember when I reread the shaido side of the plot in tfoh. I’m… going to try that with perrin’s side of the plot for the sake of the girlies (berelain, faile, alliandre, seonid) so wish me luck I guess

[alectology-archive]

anyway I will be Slightly missing over the next two weeks because I won’t have access to the internet much but I’ll be rereading gideon the ninth (primarily) & the path of daggers. and reading maybe a little bit of the brothers karamzov (hopefully).

[amemoryofwot]

When Berelain, Faile, and Seonid all try to be the one to approach Alliandre like girlies settle down 😭 and Perrin lobs Berelain right into Alliandre and STILL. My god. Galad can go be gay with Perrin or something idc.

Me @ Alliandre: girl Berelain was RIGHT THERE