#sentimonster discourse

[ilikekidsshows]

One of the biggest ProSenti arguments that really grinds my gears is the effort/age value, the idea that it took so much effort to make Adrien / he's been alive so long he's now human, mostly because it's been treated as fact for a year now and I'm pretty sure it's still under the same status of "totally made up" it was a year ago.

Like, what is the name of the episode where we are told either of these things? Describe the scene and how it delivers this information. Hell, I doubt the people claiming this nonsense could even produce a tweet/x post from one of the showrunners that confirms this theory (which would in turn imply that they had considered this, but this important piece of worldbuilding didn't make it into the show proper because trying to make Chloé look as unlikeable as possible was a bigger priority).

Also, I'll be needing a scale of at what point a Sentimonster has enough effort put into it/experience points accumulated to be considered fully human. Unless this kind of value is usable for further analysis, it's pointless.

Making Sentibug exhausted Mayura, but she also collapsed after making the giant butterfly both times. On all these three occasions, Gabriel had to carry Nathalie to relocate her. The Senti Supporters love dehumanizing the nonhumanoid Sentimonsters, so I doubt they consider the unnamed butterfly Sentimonster to be among "Sentibeings", but, by the effort measure, the butterfly is just as human as Sentibug.

As for the time of existence value, Optigami was spying on the known Miraculous holders for weeks, yet no one mourned it when it died, when it should be more human than Sentibug, who existed for half a day.

I hate this stupid plotline so much.

[wisteriasymphony]

^ also I noticed La terreur having an ongoing theme about eugenics and I love all the horrors and how unaware of their own lack of autonomy the kids are . Terrifying

Oh, yep, absolutely. I've mentioned it before on twitter, but I think the personhood apologia that is the common sentimonster discourse is overplayed, and we'd be much better off if we focused on the horror that is being created as something meant to be controlled.

I'm tired of people saying that the sentis are no different from human beings, because the argument is so fallacious! Are they sapient creatures who should be afforded the same rights as any other person? Yes, obviously! That's not the main argument people have. It's either that A. the transition from sentimonsters being used as secondary monsters of the week to a magical oppressed minority is extremely sloppy and rushed, or B. The sentis are different from human beings because their primary distinguishing feature is that they have a fucking remote control and kill switch.

Having them represent an allegory for alternative methods of conception is, in my opinion, fucking stupid, because IVF babies do not have little remotes that force them to take actions they way Sims do, and if they really wanted an IVF metaphor that bad, the lore should have established that sentimonsters do not need amoked objects so that the only distinguishing feature between sentis and humans is the method of creating them. But that's not what they did, was it?

....Anyway. The general conceit around handling sentis with LT is to introduce them early, lean into the distinguishing horror, and to develop them in more depth and for longer than what the show did. It is, handling aside, an extremely interesting concept at its core and canon has not yet done it justice.

[matt0044]

I'm curious to know why some fans keep coming back to Miraculous despite finding more cons than pros to talk about.

And why, by proxy, you think they show is successful the way it is. The way a lot of negative video essays or Reddit posts might have an outsider looking in, you'd think this show would've fizzled out after just Season 1 yet... no.

There's a secret to Miraculous's success where whinging older fans is somehow a badge of honor if anything. After all, average shows in this climate of high speed and content overload would be swept away yet Ladybug stands out through fame or infamy.

For me, it has to do with its more contentious elements. It's formulaic episodic storytelling makes most episodes accessible with how even the plot relevent ones. I found myself revisiting the ones fully uploaded to YouTube and even "Evolution" or "Re-Creation" was fun to return to out of its narrative context.

While serialized storytelling is great, we forget how episodic narratives have stood the test of time. We Are Not Alive's

The POWER of Episodic Storytelling | Writing Advice Discussion

speaks of it a lot better than I could've.

There also, well, the way Astruc has become Fandom Enemy #1. I criticize how we can't de-escalate but his yapping has drawn eyes to the series be it for hate-watching or for those going, "Hey, wait... this slaps actually."

Again, we live in a faster culture where you better have something worth paying attention to and, well, nice girls rarely make history. So having Thomas's Tweeting being as opinionated and controversial as he is was a boon for his Sentimonster. The internet loves a good lolcow and you can't say he didn't deliver.

That's not even getting into how Marinette and Chloe struck a real chord for better or worse in their respective character journeys, making good discourse fodder, buuuuuut my Miraculous tag is full to the brim on that already.

So... yeah. We're at a point where fandom discourse is more beneficial these days.

...

That's not a good thing.

[ck2k18]

hey guys. how about we don't call sentimonsters slaves and refer to their plight as slavery. how about we don't do that. because here's the thing. you can argue that according to the actual definition of slavery, this is true! sentimonsters are controlled by something and therefore are 'slaves' to their 'master'. but slave doesn't mean just that anymore.

there's a lot of context behind words, behind the meanings of words. I'm talking about chattel slavery in America. about how Black people were stolen, tortured, beaten, turned into furniture and clothing, experimented on, bred, raped, bought, sold, dehumanized, and forced to work in terrible conditions with no pay for the profit of their masters. the aftereffects of which still affect people to this day.

and then there's slavery that occurs right now. the people of the Congo, for example. men women and young children forced to work in cobalt mines without protective gear, who are subject to sexual violence, who are suffering to this day, so the west can profit.

and if you feel compelled to argue that I shouldn't minimize the plight of sentimonsters just because there are worse forms of slavery out there, then I am compelled to remind you that sentimonsters are not real. I'll say it again: sentimonsters are not real. let's not take a serious issue and language and apply it to a children's TV show for the sake of discourse that, at the end of the day, means nothing. because the problem isn't offhanded comments that sentimonsters are basically slaves or anything; it's that people are using words like slave and slavery to add a sort of gravity or seriousness to the situation that does not need to be there. it's unnecessary. its insensitive. let's remember where we are and what we are talking about. thank you

[princess-of-the-corner]

"OHOHO?"

Never quite know what the question mark refers to with these XD

But the rebuilt Peacock was part of the big discourse we hadon the issues of he Butterfly. Where we sort of worked out a version that can make Akuma, or create Familiars, IE Sentimonster. Butterfly - Emotion & Transmission

Which was followed by trying to figure out something else for the Peacock to do.

In this chase, transforming the chemical compounds of a target. IE streetlamp of steel turned to streetlamp of gold; along with being able to evoke aspects aspects of a target.

Peacock - Evocation & Transmutation

So a person targeted could have their full potential so to speak evoked, and let them run at 110% of their capacity, or they could enter their flop era. Similarly, a steel bar could become the best steel bar it can be or the most rickety thing ever.

I ended up using it for more my now 15 Kwami + Mei-Shi World Building stuff: https://www.tumblr.com/tumblingxelian/761858041694027776/revised-kwami-renlings?source=share

Ya know what that makes sense.

[mmikmmik2]

Black comedy fanfiction idea

Félix randomly finds some jewelry containing an amok in the Agreste mansion or in the Grand Paris. Who the fuck is that?? From research and interrogating Nathalie and Duusu, Kagami and Félix narrow it down to Chloé or Zoé.

Félix and Kagami being forced to ask bizarre and intrusive questions and make themselves look even weirder than usual while trying to figure out which of them it could be, without crossing an ethical line by using their amok. What if it's both girls and there's still a lost amok floating around somewhere??

Félix, believing it is wrong to hold on to another person's amok forever even if he would just be keeping it safe and not using it, coming up with absurd and melodramatic schemes to give Chloé (presumably hates him and Kagami, currently lives on a different continent) or Zoé (not close to either of them and has no reason to trust them afaik) a random piece of jewelry and convince them to keep it safe forever and never ever ever lose it or damage it or let anyone else touch it, without having to answer any followup questions, possibly while in disguise

Félix, grasping at straws, keeps suggesting murdering Audrey and Kagami is like "you cannot start a relationship with unsolicited parent murder, we have been over this"

Zoé finding out she's a sentibeing would be so funny because like. She is a relatively normal person and she already had So Much family drama and now this is happening to her. Can she get a break.

I think Chloé finding out about sentibeings would not give a shit about what Félix and Kagami want and would start yelling about it to whoever she wants. I think her and Adrien should both be like "we're sentimonsters" together in a kinda-reclaiming it way and kinda-beating themselves up way and have terrible sentibeing terminology discourse with Félix

Everyone wants to know why tf Audrey has a sentibeing kid and an until-further-notice mundane kid and is coming up with elaborate theories. It turns out she was asking tons of invasive questions about the Graham de Vanily twins' fertility, Gabriel and Emilie (who didn't want her to suspect they personally own multiple powerful magical artifacts because she sucks) panicked and basically claimed they Know A Guy for magic kids, and Audrey accidentally came away with the impression that senti-kids are exclusive and trendy. Like purse dogs.

[into-september]

Speaking for myself, I keep running into this problem with Miraculous Ladybug where I deep down rate it on the same curve as you: it's cute and it's funny and it's absolutely bonkers, and it's good at those things. The problem is: I'm a part of the fandom which doesn't rate it on that curve and which has always been torn between two camps:

The first: the people who insist that the show is genius, that everything Thomas Astruc touches is gold, that there are genuine and important messages to the events in this story, everything will be explained next season, trust the writers

The second: the heterogenous but universally exasperating crowd of salters who have their hateboners for Marinette or Adrien but almost always the Love Square, who insists on taking everything and anything happening in the worst possible meaning, who think that mangling Astruc's name is the epitome of intellect

My problem is that neither of the two camps are right, and both of them operate on opposit modi of willful denial. While the show is delightful, it is also deeply flawed on all story levels going beyond the singular episode, and the commentaries made by the writers are making it pretty clear that a lot of the "genius" is either accidental or exists only in fandom meta, not in the canon text. And so I run into this problem where I love the show for being dumb fun, but the moment the show asks me to treat it as something serious, its shortcomings are impossible to overlook (and make no mistake, with the patricide, the political commentaries, the philosophical quagmire that is the human sentimonster storyline, S5 demands that I take it seriously)

Yeah, I didn't enjoy much of S5 after "Passion", and there is a certain bitterness in that because I love so much of what happened before that.

Will I watch S6? I genuinely don't know. Most of the things that fascinated me no longer exist: Adrien won't ever get to confront his father. The Love Square was resolved in a manner more unsatisfying than I could've ever imagined. It's made amply clear that Ladybug and Cat Noir's partnership never did have any vital part in neither their respective character arcs nor the story as a whole. Future seasons will see attention spread across some twelve or thirteen characters I have no particular interest in watching, because they never had even a fraction of the personality and chemistry that Adrien and Marinette do. One of the two or three secondary characters who had something intersting going on was written out of the show in a manner so mean-spirited that I struggle to believe it was written by professional adults writing for children. The same writers have demonstrated time and again that they're not above ham-fisted messages on topics which they only have the shallowest of understanding of, or using their text for getting into petty discourse with the haters on twitter.

The irony is, most of this is a fandom thing, not a show-for-itself thing. I'm sure S6 will be as cute and as funny and as wacky as the previous seasons were, but I don't know how capable I am of watching the show without the analysis glasses on any longer, and I don't want to be That Person making acidic comments about sure, watch them introduce another storyline they'll never resolve. At the end of the day, Miraculous Ladybug is harmless fun that was conceived to be nothing more than that, and it deserves better than cranky millenials complaining about how it's not anything more than it ever tried to be.

(...though I reserve the right to be sore about Adrien's story arc, because really)

Everybody is posting their opinions about the interview about the Miraculous Ladybug season 5 finale, and I feel like I should as well, but I'm not sure I have much to say. There's just a few things that stick out to me:

First of, it's just very funny to me that the team started out with Bug Noire, and worked backwards from that, and that's why Adrien ended up in the isolation chamber. One of the most controversial things about the entire finale happened because Marinette wearing both Miraculous would be cool. That's just plain funny to me.

Second, I have not yet seen a better option for the finale. They did kind of write themselves into a corner there. The story is all about Marinette, but Adrien is the one to whom all the plot points attach. What do you do with that? Compare and contrast the movie, which I saw on the same day as the finale: It's all Marinette's story, until the big finale, where she just lays there and watches as Adrien and Gabriel resolve the main story by themselves. That option sucks, too. It's not terrible, but it's disappointing. I think all the arguments of Adrien can't be there because of Chat Blanc or Ephemeral are nonsense, even if they come from the show's head writers. But it's true that Adrien can't be there, because if he is, the story becomes about him instead of Marinette. If you know a fanfic that found a good way to resolve that, let me know!

As an aside: I know there are people who are disappointed that we didn't learn more about Emilie and the past of the adults, but I think that was never going to happen. I know I made a post about this years ago but I can't find it, but basically: Emilie was an interesting mystery for fans, but she was never relevant to the plot, least of all Marinette. This is the same kind of stuff as with the Marauders back in the days of the Harry Potter fandom, where a certain subset of fans went wild over all the hints. But those were never promises, they were just flavour, telling us the world is bigger and adventures have been going on since forever.

My final and most important point here is something quite different: I am grading Miraculous Ladybug on one hell of a curve. Have been doing that since the first episode I watched. I am willing to forgive most any jank in the storytelling if I get some cool and cute moments, and the show is full of those. So in that regard, the season 5 finale was no problem for me whatsoever. Yes, there is a lot of jank, but also a lot of cool stuff, and that makes me happy. There's a kung-fu crocodile! What more needs to be said?

(Aside: I know there are people who hate the kung-fu crocodile, and that the Couffaine boys are now mystical monks out of nowhere, with no explanation. I assume these people either hate fun or are arguing out of bad faith. If there's one thing in the finale that was obviously objectively 100% a good thing, it's that the crocodile knows Kung-Fu.)

Now, I'm not saying that you should grade the show on a curve, I'm just saying that I do. Yes, it's not entirely rational. Yes, there are plenty of shows out there, including shows aimed at similar age ranges, that don't require this. But if I didn't grade Miraculous Ladybug on a curve, if I didn't rate cute and fun and exciting over great interesting story, if I didn't separate the potential for fanfics from the actual way the stories are told, then I wouldn't be in the fandom to begin with. This is explicitly not a defence or apologia, it's just an explanation for why I have no trouble disregarding the janky parts. I know others disagree, or agree in principle but then some of the janky parts were just too bad for them and broke the spell, and that's valid.

But personally, I have no major problem with the season 5 finale. Yeah it was weird and quite a few decisions were stupid and didn't help any overall story. But I had fun, I'm looking forward to season 6 and I am going to write more fanfic. That's what matters to me.

[sunfoxfic]

Sometimes I see someone criticizing the Sentimonster Adrien Theory for "basic plotholes" and I'm just sitting there like. Have you ever spoken to a sentimonster Adrien theorist. I could give you like 6 different explanations to that right now.

[yourfavisasentimonster]

Birds from real life are sentimonsters

[Image ID: A picture of a pigeon centered in a Sentimonster Pride Flag. End ID.]

All of the birds died in 1986 due to Gabriel Agreste killing them and replacing them with sentimonsters that are now watching us. The birds work for the bourgeoisie.

[kasienda]

This is how I feel about it. And why I don���t care whether he is or not. I love him.

I understand the senti Adrien theory is a delicate one in this fandom but I feel it’s important to say that whether or not Adrien is or isn’t a senti-monster, his experiences we’ve seen in his story are very real. 

This isn’t a post to theorize if Adrien is a senti-monster or to disprove it. I just wanted to bring attention to the most important aspect in all this. 

Adrien is someone who has his own wants and desires.  

someone who has his own thoughts and opinions

someone who can feel love,

happiness, 

anger, 

jealousy,

and pain 

Not to mention Adrien can feel physical pain, suffer from allergies, get sick, is able to age etc. 

If Adrien were a senti-monster that doesn’t make him any less human. Being human is having conscious thought, the ability to make make decisions, to feel things and to react to them. Everything that he feels is real and it shouldn’t matter if he is or isn’t a senti-monster because at the end of the day that shouldn’t and doesn’t invalidate his experiences. The show is teaching us that advance senti-monsters as so alike to humans that they deserve freewill and be able to control their own paths. 

This possibility wouldn’t erase Adrien’s personality, feelings, and his actions. The fact that the fandom is discussing if Adrien could be a senti-monster kinda proves the point the show is telling us, that senti-monsters are just like humans and there is no difference between them except for the creation of the person.  

Again, this isn’t a post to prove how he could be a senit-monster or not, but a post about how nothing should invalidate Adrien’s very real experiences and his very real emotions. Adrien is real period. 

[ilikekidsshows]

When did marinette kill and resurrect Adrien? I haven’t seen it and I want to know how and why that happened?

---

Okay, so, in the episode ‘Werepapas’, because Adrien wasn’t told he was a Sentimonster and his entire existence is tied to his parents’ wedding rings, he didn’t keep them on him every second of the episode, and so his grandma was holding them when she was Akumatized, making them her Akumatization object.

Now, she wasn’t a dangerous Akuma, she literally just turned Adrien’s two grandfathers into werewolves to duke out their differences all properly in a fighting rink. Adrien got stuffed into a trophy because they were fighting over who should get custody of him, aka, treating him like a trophy. So Marinette just tosses them all out of the rink easily and then doesn’t even try to come up with a plan that doesn’t involve smashing the rings, which she knows are tied to Adrien’s very existence, into smithereens. And this is after fighting off Akumatization became really easy. There was no justification for that.

Then she Miraculous Ladybugs the rings whole again and no one knows she did that. And the fandom’s reaction was to make Shrödinger’s Cat jokes about Adrien being in a box (trophy), so we couldn’t be sure if he was dead, even though, in the original thought experiment, the cat would, in fact, always be dead if it was an actual experiment. I just feel like that kind of asinine discourse just really diminishes the fact that Marinette deliberately, purposefully and willingly killed Adrien.

Even if we get a twist/retcon/correction/backtalk episode that goes "actually, those weren't the real rings/Adrien isn't a Sentimonster after all", that doesn't change the fact that Marinette was willing to do it. The only way to fix this would be if Marinette knew she was holding fakes, but that would open a new can of worms of her keeping Adrien's free will/remote control hostage.

[gentil-minou]

I've been seeing this sort of argument about how Adrien needs to be turned into a human or needs LB to help him and I am just going to come out and say it.

Adrien doesn't need to be a "real boy". He just needs to be Adrien.

He's done amazing things with who he is and honestly I think he can continue being a senti and continue being his own self without the needs of Ladybug or his father or anyone else to dictate who he should be.

Honestly, that sort of rhetoric screams ableism and queer-phobia in general in that it implies there is only one specified way of existing and that in order for Adrien to exist and live a proper life he has to act and conform to a certain standard that other's hold him to.

The reality is that, if he is a sentibeing, he always has been and thus all of his bravery and kindness and pure Adrien self that captured our hearts. I actually think making him a "real boy" would be a disservice to his character.

What I want him and LB to figure out is how to give him back complete and utter control, using their combined wit, creativity, and knowledge to break the tether that binds Adrien to those rings and to his dad.

My theory for Adrien's Cataclysm power-up is that it will break the link between a miraculous holder and the creature they control, essentially the ability to destroy chains and binds.

The best scenario that I want most is for Adrien to, after defeating his dad and breaking those chains, hold the twin rings in his hand and turn them into dust himself showing that he is and will be his own person, even if the definition is not the one we would normally associate with it.

[bebrave-live]

So I just watched Ephemeral

[sunfoxfic]

Well, and this might be a little soap opera esque, but Adrien and Felix are identical. Notably identical. So it's entirely possible that they got mixed up, or, say, a mother concerned about someone using her son switched them so that even if someone found out, they had the wrong boy...

Which could go for either Adrien or Felix, but depending on which one, it really changes the context of how much Felix wanted that ring.

So at this stage I’m pretty convinced that either Adrien or Felix are sentimonsters - or possibly both (for all we know, Amelie could’ve used the peacock as well). Like… there’s some decent evidence for both of them, between the weirdness of Felix’s name being used for an episode and his weird movements while fighting, and all the stuff going on with Adrien currently.

Even if it turns out that Felix is a sentimonster and Adrien isn’t, though, I think that ring has to have SOME sort of power over him. From a narrative standpoint, I don’t see a lot of other reasons why the camera would make sure to focus in on Gabriel fiddling with his ring while telling off Adrien for disobeying him in Mega Leech, and ESPECIALLY in Ephemeral, with the camera doing a close-up of Shadowmoth making the fiddling motions with his fingers while in the process of akumatizing Adrien. I’m skeptical of the idea that Adrien could just have some sort of trauma associated with the ring or that Gabriel might be fiddling with it because it makes him feel better or really, most theories like that, since it doesn’t really seem like what the showmakers are intending to convey to the audience, with how the scenes are framed.

But they’re twin rings, and Adrien and Felix look like twins (which isn’t IMPOSSIBLE to happen coincidentally, but is really freaking weird), so they might have powers of their own that we don’t know of yet…

[crocojagged]

Thinking about the potential for Senti!Adrien to come up in Ephemeral. Mainly because of the theory @maridupaingreste on insta (currently deactivated, if they ever return i'll link the post directly) previously shared about his akumatization in Chat Blanc, and the strong possibility of him getting akumatized again in Ephemeral.

In short the theory pointed out that there's a connection between the purple bubble background that sometimes surrounds Hawkmoth and sentimonsters. And that Adrien is shown to be resisting akumatization until his father specifically orders him to "obey" with this same background appearing. Potentially coincidental, potentially a really big hint.

I'm wondering how the Ephemeral akumatization will compare to this if it does happen and what that would imply for whether Adrien is a sentibeing or not. There hasn't been a ton of discussion of the theory since Wishmaker came out, and I'm guessing there will at least be a suspicious moment like there was in Wishmaker that sparks more discussion.

[theultracharmingladynoire]

SENTIMONSTER ADRIEN - A MASTERPOST OF ALL THE REASONS WHICH LEAD TO THE CREATION OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL THEORY IN THE FANDOM.

Soooo, yesterday's episode led to the re-awakening of the Senti-Adrien theory that had been causing riots in the fandom. Some were confused on certain things about this theory, while others (the majority tbh) were not happy at all about this. I perfectly understand why such a theory would make someone feel super depressed (because trust me, I was actually an Anti-Sentiadrien theorist once. It may be different for others, but I certainly know why some, if not all, may hate the theory being canon).

I will make two posts about this: The current one being about all the foreshadowing which could make sense, and some common debunking, and the next part will be about the fandom response (Well, can't say it was pleasant lol). (Pssst @gentil-minou has made excellent posts about it here and here which I highly recommend reading because they are just so well explained and almost therapeutic with all the chaos brewing from the past day 🤍)

Warning note: This post is more or less Pro-Senti Adrien, so be warned if the theory stresses or triggers you. I will not be accepting any salty or rude comments about "How the show will do it insensitively" or "How it is bad and doesn't make sense" which is completely unnecessary. This is just some clowning, kindly do not take it seriously and come at me if you disagree, because I really know that people are displeased about this and I understand why they do, and it is completely okay to hate it. But kindly don't seek out your objections on this post, please?:)

Another thing which I want to include in the very beginning is that, yes, there are a lot of holes in the theory. HOWEVER, IT IS MOSTLY RELATED WHAT WE DON'T KNOW - GABRIEL AND EMILIE'S STORY FOR AN EXAMPLE. NATHALIE "SANCOUER" FOR AN EXAMPLE. So I consider them to be more of unknown info rather than "plot holes". Again as I told, I won't really appreciate it if anyone repeats that again.

So, let me state the basic reasons why some of us suspect Adrien to be a Senti. (Note: I have merely compiled these facts and speculation and thus do not take the credit for the theory!)

So, Senti-Adrien. There are several headcanon varieties of this theory, but the basic theory is that his mother, Emilie Agreste, used the peacock miraculous to create Adrien, a sentibeing.

Some points:

We know sentimonsters can persist over many years (Episode: Feast).

We know two sentimonsters can exist at one time (Feast existed while other sentimonsters were created throughout the show) (Optigami existed simultaneously with Senti-Nino and Senti-Alec, etc.)

We know sentimonsters can be lifelike and autonomous, can grow and function like a regular human being if they are made to be one. (Senti!Ladybug, Episode: Ladybug).

No one can see the difference between a sentibeing made to be human and a regular Human being, not even AI (such as Aeon. Since people use that to debunk this theory so often. And it does make sense. More on that later)

Assuming Emilie used the (possibly broken) peacock miraculous (or broke it in the first place while using it), What did she do that would break it/what was so important that she would use a broken miraculous? (Creating senti!human Adrien who is very much intricate and sustaining him for 15 years?)

Why were Emilie and Gabriel so "protective" and hesitant to let Adrien out into the world?? Why didn't they send him to public school and never let him interact with anyone except Chloé? (Episode: Origins) (I am very much aware this is all actually Adrien being abused. One of the main things people are afraid about is that "What if they use Adrien being a Senti to justify Gabe abusing Adrien? And well, that definitely isn't the case. If Senti Adrien was made to be their son, he certainly shouldn't be abusing Adrien and well, I'll come back to this in the next post.)

The painting of Emilie is based on Gustav Klimt's piece Adele Bloch Bauer I. Interesting to note, Adele's life parallels what we know about Emilie's life in many notable ways. (This post by @familyagrestefanblog provides some interesting info about it). Adele was childless despite attempts to have children (even losing a baby boy). Could Emilie have had issues conceiving and thus resorted to the peacock miraculous to have a child? (Because let's face it, So many paintings in the world and they've chosen one with a backstory of a woman who COULDN'T have children to put Emilie's face on? Not really coincidental if you ask me lol)

After Felix sneaks Gabriel’s ring off, Gabriel tries to tell Adrien to stop when he chases Felix out the front door. Perhaps the amok wasn’t entirely in his control and thus didn't work? Why was it so important for Gabriel to immediately remove the other ring from his wife's body to wear for himself?

In the Shanghai special Gabriel cryptically said he, "Needs to finish what he started 15 years ago". Adrien is approx. 15 years old.

THE DAMNED FEATHERS:

(If there is one thing Miraculous is extremely good at, it is the visual cues. And though people may consider this to be clowning, I do consider this to be foreshadowing.)

The Ladybug endcard was actually anything but subtle. The amok, a charged one, was right next to Adrien and Sentibug. Why Adrien instead of Chat? Adrien didn't actually interact as himself with sentibug, but as Chat.

Could Adrien’s unique pigeon feather allergy somehow be tied to amoks, feathers and him being a sentimonster?

We are shown that a senti!human can use a Miraculous (Episode: Optigami) . In similar fashion, Sentimonsters can be akumatised too (Episode: Feast).

Ah, here comes the ring twiddling. (Notably in Mega Leech (which is right after Gabriel Agreste where the stolen ring could have been retrieved from Felix) and Ephemeral. (Especially ephemeral where in both instances, Gabriel says: "Am I making myself understood, son?" And Adrien obeys.) Though it is worthy noting that this could also represent Gabriel considering how similar Adrien is to Emilie and have nothing to do with an amok. He could be touching the ring thinking about Emilie. We know Gabriel has already noted to other characters in the show that Adrien and Emilie are really similar.

The whole Felix debacle. Since I don't want to turn this post into a "Why Felix is definitely a Senti regardless of Adrien being one" post, I'll just summarise it:

("Make Adrien look like a monster", " Cruel and inferior copy" blatantly points towards either Adrien or Felix or both being a Sentimonster. It also could allude to this other very much possible theory that Gabriel thinks Adrien is a Senti, but in reality he isn't. However that is way to confusing so yeah.) Again, I'll explain this on another day because I can't really think rn.

The Wishmaker vision which certainly isn't coincidental.

Adrien "Athanase" Agreste, where Athanase means "immortal".

There's actually a lot more to this,but this post is already long enough, sooo until next time!