#seanwhite d/s relationship

[lutawolf]

Hi Luta!

Loved your meta on the first episode Hidden Agenda's D/s dynamics and will be looking forward to read the rest!

Thinking back Joong's character in the show kind of reminds me of a gentle Dom in later episodes after their relationship progresses.

Honestly I absolutely love your metas on D/s pairings' dynamics. I still remember when Not me was coming out on Sundays and each Monday I got to work in the morning, made myself a cup of coffee and read your meta on SeanWhite's dynamics like it was my morning newspaper hahahaha.

Hey Nonnie!!!

Thank you! I'm excited to do more. I'm so glad you enjoyed it too. 💜💜💜

He is very much a gentle Dom, with a side of bullying as his sign of affection.

Thank ya 😍😘 Not Me will forever be a favorite for me. I still re-watch it and get so much enjoyment from it.

Thank you so much for this, I sincerely appreciate it.

[thequeenofsastiel]

I would say the moment that sticks out to me the most as proof that Sean knows White isn't Black is this:

I know we're all salivating about the romance of that line, which is totally fair, but I think the more important part of it is the intensity. Telling someone that they keep you alive is not a casual thing to say, and especially not from someone like Sean, whose walls are incredibly high. Even though he was admittedly growing to care for White and be concerned about his welfare, you could tell that his history with Black was really hanging over their heads. But in this episode that just wasn't there. He was MUCH softer.

This, for example:

I've seen a lot of people post about how sweet it is that Sean did this, which is also fair, but to me the part that's the most significant is the fact that Sean would never assume that Black would need that kind of assistance in the first place. And, unlike Gumpha, he made no comment about how soft White's hands are. Later, he teased White for panting after running up those stairs, but didn't follow it up with questioning why, given that Black should be in good enough shape not to.

Back to the line, aside from the intensity of the statement itself, the way Sean says it is also significant. He doesn't say it with any uncertainty or hesitation. He doesn't say it like he's talking to someone who once threw him to the wolves. And he said it with White looking at him like this:

You'll never convince me that at any point in their relationship Black has looked at Sean like this. This is all White. All his emotional vulnerability, his affection for and submissiveness to Sean, his uncertainty and fear regarding their activities...every bit of it is White. And Sean doesn't seem remotely surprised or confused by it. He sees the truth of who White is in White's eyes. White, who has never abandoned him, never tried to hurt him, and melts beneath Sean's Dom gaze. Sean would never say those words to Black, especially not in that gentle, somewhat dominating fashion. Because Sean doesn't say it in a way that makes it sound like he's being vulnerable. He says it in the same tone that he did when he was trying to get White to focus during the arson in ep 2, and when he was telling White to focus on his plan in ep 6. It's almost like he's giving White an order.

So yeah, there isn't a doubt in my mind that Sean knows. I would be shocked if he didn't.

[absolutebl]

So I was thinking about how I like that in The Eclipse, the seme is shorter than the uke for once, and wrote in the tags that I do enjoy a good size difference in which the seme is bigger than the uke, though, like with Deanpharm and Seanwhite.

But then I remembered you explaining that Doms are necessarily the semes nor subs the uke. And with Deanpharm and Seanwhite, the interest is entirely mutual and equally pursued(though Pharm is a total Blushing Maiden), but there IS a strong D/s vibe in both couples.

So my question is, is there a seme/uke dynamic in those relationships?

So right now I'd argue that there is none with the leads in The Eclipse. I mean Aye is the active aggressor but is that just flirtatious character or does he have intent to pursue a real relationship or is there an ulterior motive? What happens if Akk decides to flip the dynamic? Which he certainly could at any moment. 

Eclipse is a lot more like Bad Buddy in this regard. Which I don't think really had seme/uke. I love it that Thailand is finally moving away from this model.

Vice Versa Jimmy is shorter but his character is clearly the aggressor but also is in doubt with a possible ulterior motive, and being an ACTOR character his interest can always be considered performative. Also I am pretty sure they are going to play with us, and roles, because of that title. Or they will if they’re clever, and it feels like them might try to be clever with this one. 

In Sky in my Heart Fah also shorter, but definitely the seme, mostly because I doubt Mek could play an uke to save his life. 

Incidentally actors who have successfully played both roles number essentially 2: Gong Jun (Advance Bravely and Word of Honor) and Tay Tawan (Kiss series and 3 Will Be Free). 

SeanWhite I don’t think really had much seme/uke. I would call it a weak dynamic and a lot of the seme/uke feel came from OffGun’s style and pre-existing dynamic. But also I’d argue Not Me isn’t really that much of a BL so it doesn’t bother to bow to the conceits of the genre. 

DeanPharm on the other hand, I would call classic seme/uke. Practically poster children. Their alter selves were not, and that’s part of the disconnect and discomfort with the reincarnation. Pharm lost much of Inn’s autonomy to fear and timidity because of how his past life ended. Just because Dean is soft and a great communicator never discount his semeness. He is entirely in charge of pursuing their relationship, it’s just he’s also willing to back off because his past self was the one that fucked up and he must atone for that. Part of that atonement is limiting his own needs and desires in a very un-seme way. But in the end he gets what he wants. 

More like this?

BL couples where there is no seme/uke 

Demi Seme 

Strong Seme/Uke But Still Gentle? 

Any BLs where the seme has more feminine traits? 

Aggressive & Autonomous Ukes in BL - when the Uke Forced to Undertake the Seme Role

Instances of seme/uke role reversal? 

[heretherebedork]

I am still thinking about My Beautiful Man.

And, specifically, the discussion of their possible D/s dynamic (I'm kinda torn on how much there is once they get together tbh but ehhhh who am I to really judge?)

But I absolutely, truly, believe that Kiyoi is the sub in the relationship and acts very Dom with Hira unwillingly and hates it, despite the fact that Hira responds to it and that Hira might not be a natural Dom but will learn to be one for Kiyoi.

Kiyoi hates having to make the first move, hates having to be in control. Every single time he has to be the one to make the choice or the first move or Hira leaves him in a position where he has to move their relationship forward... he either gets mad or gets sad or avoids the action as best he can.

Kiyoi desperately wants Hira to take control. He wants Hira to be the one to make that first move, the one to state his intentions, the one to initiate their relationship, the one to reach out. All Kiyoi wants is to not have to be the one in charge.

And Hira's the one, in the end, who grabs him. Hira's the one who holds him and lays him out and holds his wrists and kisses him.

Hira is the one who takes charge and teases and smiles and kisses Kiyoi and holds him.

I don't think they'd be D/s lifestyle the way LeoFiat or SeanWhite might be.

But I think that there are times when Kiyoi gets sulky and whiny and pushes and grumbles until Hira steps up again and reminds him who's in charge in the relationship.

[thequeenofsastiel]

I love how when Yok and Gram are hassling Sean and White about being lovey dovey during their mission, White clearly does not give two shits and doesn't even slightly stop snuggling Sean, but Sean still feels the need to order White to ignore them.

[thequeenofsastiel]

Well, it took me way too many hours to figure out how to gif this properly(the fact that I say "hours" is deeply unsettling), but fortunately now it'll take much less time to do gifs in the future; thank you, @heretherebedork for your advice.

Anyway, despite my deep judgment of Sean for doing this in the first place, I'm not going to pretend I didn't love every second of it, so here's a post gushing about their D/s scene in ep 12.

This is when Sean traps White in the warehouse to get him to agree to something. There's the close space, the wall lean:

White is reticent at first:

But seems strangely disappointed when Sean's only threat is clearly an empty one:

Sean agrees that he won't do it:

But then he moves closer to White, clearly for the purposes of intimidation, and White can't even begin to meet Sean's eyes:

Then White issues a challenge, albeit one made rather meekly:

I very much enjoy the way Sean's eyebrows lift, like he's saying "Really? You need a threat? Okay, then."

There's more to that scene, but that's the part that really gets me. Both this part and the possessive handholding that strongly suggests leashes are in their future make it clear that Sean has every intention of laying down the law almost immediately. And White's reaction to it makes it clear on his side that he's all for it(it takes him 31 seconds to agree to do as he's told).

Anyway I love it I love them I can't help it.

Sidenote, White's behavior in this scene is an example of the extreme difference between him and Black, and it's wild to witness.

[thequeenofsastiel]

White: Throws the door open so hard that it bangs against the wall when he sees Sean behind it.

Also White: Says he doesn't want to talk to Sean.

[thequeenofsastiel]

I feel like at some point Sean is going to dominate White in some way in front of Black and Black is going to absolutely lose it.

[thequeenofsastiel]

Next time they see each other I just want Sean to grab White by the scruff of his neck and tell him that he's not allowed to leave without asking permission first from now on.

[thequeenofsastiel]

A few of my favorite D/s moments from ep 8:

White is being a playful brat.

Which 100% pushes Sean's Dom button. I enjoy the way he advances on White, who backs away and shakes his head quickly at Sean's question, not remotely fighting him or shoving him again.

And I know other people have pointed this out, but it's part of this exchange and thus must be included:

I love how Sean doesn't say this in a loud or aggressive voice. It's rather soft but with an undercurrent of a threat, and sounds very much like a promise. Also, keep in mind that the episode ended at sundown, so we still have "tonight" to look forward to.

And there's this:

It's not exactly the same as Sean grabbing White by the neck, but it's a similar idea. He physically controls what White does, and gives him an order.

Granted, White completely ignores this order, but still.

[thequeenofsastiel]

Just me enjoying how intimidated White seemed by Sean's reaction to being shoved

[thequeenofsastiel]

I was showing V the first episode of Not Me, and I noticed something that I didn't before.

The difference in their personalities is stark here. White is extremely submissive compared to his brother(I don't mean in a sexual or kink way in this context, I mean in a personality way). So the fact that Black and Sean never connected the way White and Sean connected makes perfect sense.

Of course it also makes the fact that it took so long for Sean to cotton on to White not being Black kinda hilarious but whatever.

[thequeenofsastiel]

The expression on Sean's face when he decides to dominate White.

[thequeenofsastiel]

I cannot believe that I didn't notice that Sean didn't even take White's hand here, just grabbed his wrist. Again.

[thequeenofsastiel]

One thing that I really appreciate is the fact that even though Sean forced his way into Black’s apartment with White pushing at him and protesting, as soon as White said to not sit on his bed, Sean instantly jumped up, and sat on the floor instead. So like, even though I very, very much hope that they'll negotiate their kink relationship at some point, the fact that Sean is able to discern the difference between a real no and a fake one and will accede to the real one is very encouraging and makes me feel like their kink relationship turning into an abusive one is less likely.

[thequeenofsastiel]

As promised, the post about Seanwhite's D/s dynamic.

Their kink relationship is very interesting to me. They don't know each other on a personal level, but they know each other on a kink level, whether they realize it or not. The thing about connecting with someone on a D/s level, especially if it's as intense as what they clearly feel, is that it's extremely difficult to not automatically fall into that dynamic, whether you mean to or not. I don't think either of them remotely mean to, but they just can't help it. Dgmw, I'm not saying that that's exclusive to kink connections, obviously romantic connections are also very difficult to ignore. But for kinky people, generally the way we experience romantic love tends to be wrapped up in our kink needs(though not always the other way around). And often it's harder to deny the kink connection than the romantic one(think Leo and Fiat and their obvious inability to not have a D/s relationship with each other even though it was unspoken and they were ostensibly friends).

Personal story time! The most profound kink relationship I've ever had was with a man who, when we met, was deeply, deeply devoted to Christianity, and thought he wasn't allowed to date an Atheist. But, despite our religious differences, we very much fell in love. He was able to ignore that, but he couldn't ignore the way we instinctively related to each other as Dominant and submissive, so we spent some time exploring kink in a non sexual and non romantic way(mostly service submission and s&m). It didn't work out for multiple reasons, but even to this day when we spend time together, it's all but impossible for us to pretend that we don't relate to each other in that way.

The point is, Sean and White also can't pretend that they don't have that with each other. Even when they were boxing, it turned into a kind of kink dance:

The way they look at each other is a big, big tell. White looks at Sean with scared vulnerability, while Sean gazes down at him calmly, clearly in control of both himself and White. And then, when he knocks White out:

He looks at him with this somewhat concerned yet stern expression, the way a Dom sometimes looks at a sub after a scene. In a way, that's exactly what they just did. And he's also clearly trying to come to grips with what he's feeling.

Then we have some behavior control, Sean firmly telling White to be respectful and polite:

And we get another look between them after Sean yanks him out of the bathroom:

Same frightened vulnerability, same calm, stern expression.

And some more power play:

White is whiney, the way submissives often are when their Dom gives them orders they don't want to follow, but he only gives the most token of struggles. Also, I can't lie, the way Sean slams White's arm into the bed is hella sexy.

Pushing against your Dom, testing their strength, can be a way to seek reassurance. For subs what we desire is often a sense of safety. It may seem counterintuitive, but knowing that your Dom is stronger than you, can physically control you, gives you that sense of safety. So when White moves his hand a little, that's what he's seeking from Sean. The knowledge that Sean is stronger than him, can control him. And Sean does exactly what he wants when he tightens his grip on White's wrist.

Their relationship is extremely intense, and I'm very curious where it'll go from here.

Feel free to engage with this post!