#saw meta

[moonyflesh]

the vibe i want to bring to the function:

he serves cunt every time and he knows it.

[bucklway]

was adam meant to free roam the bathroom?

isn’t it so unfair that adam’s key fell down the drain? it’s like he didn’t even have a chance to escape..

but isn’t that the point?

in saw 3, john tells amanda “you didn’t test anyones will to live, instead, you took away their only chance. your games were unwinnable.” and we are shown a montage of these unwinnable games. we see her fighting eric, troy in the classroom trap, kerry in the angel trap..

and her throwing adam’s key in the bathtub..

so how is amanda giving adam his key making his game unwinnable? and why does john consider that moment unfair?

is this meant to imply that amanda wasn’t supposed to do this?

maybe adam was meant to discover this key at some point, like the box in the wall, and free himself before 6. this would make it much harder for lawrence to kill him, adam could hide, he could potentially even escape. or maybe when the game was over, john would decide wether or not adam was worthy of living, getting the key for him. those options feel much more fair then his only mode of freedom falling down the drain the second he wakes up.

let’s talk about what john says in adam’s tape and if it confirms or denies this theory,

he begins with “up until now, you’ve simply sat in the shadows, watching others live out their lives.” then he actually gives adam an objective, a way to win the game, “are you going to watch yourself die today, or do something about it?”

john seems to think that it’s possible for adam to win the game, he’s meant to take control of his life, and escape.

adam managed to stay alive until 6, but he was still left to die.. so what gives? adam learns to appreciate his life and everything, he learns that he wants to be alive “i want to live!” however, what john had told him was “are you going to watch yourself die, or do something about it?”

when you really think about it, adam didn’t do anything to earn his survival. he killed zepp, sure, but that was only after the time limit was up, and he only did it to save lawrence, the man who attempted to kill him like 5 minutes ago. john certainly didn’t view that as enough, because he left him to rot.

“do something about it” could’ve meant that he was supposed to kill lawrence, which i don’t know how he could’ve done that if he’s chained to the other side of the room..

lmk what u guys think!

[chainmotif]

amanda didn't know that jeff was coming nor did she know that the cops were about to raid the place, but she shot lynn anyway after john told her to 'think about tomorrow', a tomorrow when john finds out she was with cecil the night jill lost her baby and disowns her, when in reality john probably wouldn't even live through the night and she just couldn't accept it

[bringmefoxgloves]

the thing about the saw movies is that they are perhaps the horror movies (aside from lake mungo and a few other notable exceptions) that so clearly show ‘the dead haunt the narrative’ idea. 

aside from the obvious, of adam haunting the entire narrative through lawrence, there are so many others. the dead might die, but they continue to have a place in the narrative. as bodies in the bathroom (they just keep stacking and stacking, leaving different impressions on the space, different memories for the viewer). as numbers in the killing total of the jigsaw murders, lingering as little more than another bloody death, another facet of terror, but they still leave holes. 

the dead, perhaps the most of all, act as motivators for the living. examples of horrible fates they wish to avoid, people to save. there’s the dead girl haunts the narrative trope at the center of mark hoffman as a character with his sister, there’s the death of a child as a motivator for john kramer (if you accept jigsaw as part of canon, the death of a nephew as well). the death of a child again in the delon family. there’s the death of a father, that drives a child to murder in brent abbott and the threat of death of another child in the matthews family. 

the man who studies the dead, adam heffner, the mortician who has worked on all found victims of jigsaw and thus knows the secrets of the dead, the secrets of jigsaw, is killed by mark hoffman leaping out of a body bag, hidden among the dead. the dead keep their secrets and haunt the narrative and the living aren’t allowed to know them.

peter strahm’s hand is taken by mark hoffman, a puppetry of the dead, using the dead as a cover, as a scapegoat. peter strahm is there long after his death. his partner, lindsey perez, comes back from the dead, and is killed again for it.

john kramer’s death (along with all those around him: amanda and lynn and jeff) is the capstone of saw iii and saw iv opens on his body. his body holds a tape, literally a messenger of the dead. saw vi has perhaps the most telling line in it, spoken to mark who is already haunted with the dead, as he stands over john’s body:

“You think it’s the living who will have the ultimate judgement over you, because the dead will have no claim over your soul.”

[doks-aux]

My favorite thing about John "Jigsaw" Kramer is that at a certain point his actions only make sense if he's deliberately putting himself in situations that will just result in more pain for him so he can then have an excuse to torture people.

Why else buy insurance from a man who spelled out to his face his fully mathematical and detached manner of doing business unless he wanted a reason to punish him and further validation for his worldview?

[karmaphone]

I literally think that John intended to go back for Adam. yeah he insulted him & his importance of Cherishing Your Life (give me that sweet cancer!) but he technically Survived his trap* and we know for a fact that Amanda wasn't supposed to go back and do what she did. I think John kept watching on those cameras** and intended to, just as he died, revive him and recruit him to be an apprentice. we see that at least two other times (Larry and Logan.) adam Passed, he's a stalker capable of following people and getting close without being detected, and he was Absolutely Changed by the experience. he even told him where the key to his chains were, (which he would have had access to if Amanda was willing to touch him again after putting him in the tub by putting the necklace around his neck, instead of just tossing it in the tub to slide down the drain) throw in the fact that Larry joined him and you know he'd join right away, especially considering how bleak and devoid of purpose his life was before and the way he was changed by his test

---

*technically, yes, his challenge was to survive without getting killed by Larry before 6, which he Did Accomplish. However, it was John who said that his challenge is to stop watching and Being A Voyeur and to Actually Do Something, which he did not do (until after 6. he clearly did Stop Being A Voyeur by killing Zepp to save Larry but he didn't do it within the time limit - and rules are rules) therefore I think leaving him in the bathroom (assuming that he had to have freed himself) was another Test - one that was ruined by Amanda's mercy killing

** this would also help to explain why Amanda was tested so many times by John - he watched her break down and ruin her first test and commit an outright murder, and then watched her lie to his face about it after promising to give every cell in her body over to him

[livingbythewords]

The scene in Saw V when Mark asks John lying on the hospital bed “what’s going on with Amanda”, shows another facet of their complicated relationship and it does so in a very subtle but convincing way, mostly thanks to Costas Mandylor’s great acting.

Mark asks the question, but John doesn’t answer it directly, choosing to deflect instead. That’s because he knows what Mark is really asking about and he can’t answer that. Instead, he starts talking about the game again, and gives Mark another task, to redirect his attention and keep it off himself in his fragile, vulnerable state.

Mark buys none of it, and while he might act detached as usual to be a good disciple and follow the rules, his eyes and his whole face are saying something else entirely. Let me help you. Let me take you out of this fucking hospital room and somewhere decent, this is not the place for someone like you, why did I agree to this, you are dying and I can’t do anything about it, why are you doing this to me, why won’t you let me show that I care about you, why would you make anyone do this for you, you know it’s impossible, I can’t do it, no one can, which is why both I and -

“ - Amanda will fail you.”

And that last look Mark gives John before leaving. He knows it’s probably the last time they’ll see each other, with so many things unsaid, so many unspoken truths left between them, so many questions. Mark still isn’t aware of the enormity of John’s betrayal; John himself is perfectly aware of it, but he will never say he is sorry, he will never let himself show that he cares, too. That would require a whole different kind of vulnerability than being seen  physically dying - the one that he was never strong enough to afford.

[galedekarios]

while i did a gifset to showcase an armour set, i was also intrigued by just how different the animation is for the wizard class vs gale's unique animation:

wizard class animation

gale's unique animation

it's amazing to see not only just how quickly gale performs the somatic component of the spell, but also his efficiency of movement compared to the standard wizard animation.

there's a world of difference here, the difference between a wizard vs a prodigy, an archwizard and chosen.

[o-wild-west-wind]

The more I think about it, I actually REALLY like the choice in the Wicked movie to alter Elphaba and Fiyero’s introduction and to switch Avaric (I think?) from a human to a sentient Horse—because it adds the tiiiiniest bit of insight and foreshadowing into Fiyero’s character and his subsequent relationship with Elphaba.

Not only does it soften their introduction, but it also establishes him as someone who—while clearly seeing himself as superior in terms of rank—still views Animals as fellow people. He and the Horse have banter and camaraderie, and Fiyero explicitly uses “we” instead of “I.” He makes it clear that they’re both fully present with Elphaba in the scene.

That helps fill in the arguable plot hole of why Elphaba spares him (and not also Glinda) in the lion cub scene—he’s already established as someone who respects Animal autonomy in at least some capacity, and who she can reasonably trust to “get” the problem with Animal subjugation (something that Glinda, while just having proven her empathy for Elphaba specifically, hasn’t genuinely shown herself to understand yet). IMO, it subtly helps establish Elphaba and Fiyero’s relationship as one borne of political allyship (something that was really only subtextual in the stage show)—which is also part of why Glinda’s relationships with the both of them are tragically and inextricably doomed by the narrative.

anyway. we stan one (1) woke bisexual winkie prince

[saavik]

one thing i liked about saw x is that it clarified why john revealed his identity in saw 2. i always wondered why he chose to do that relatively early on in his “career” (lol) besides the fact that he was going to die soon. obviously he already had 3 apprentices at that point, but that still isn’t like.. a great choice. in saw x, we finally see that his identity had already been revealed. at least one person who he tortured in that movie escaped, so it was only a matter of time until the news spread. by centering himself in the game in saw 2, he was able to reveal his identity on his own terms.

[bloominglegumes]

i love normal guys doomed by the narrative

[moonyflesh]

behind the scenes of Saw - (2004), starring Cary Elwes as “(Doctor) Lawrence Gordon”, Leigh Whanell as “Adam Stanheight”, and Tobin Bell as “John Kramer”.

((HAPPY JAMES WAN SUMMER!))

[bucklway]

AUs where Adam drops Scott after surviving the bathroom/meeting Lawrence because he gains self respect, are so interesting to me because I feel like I got an entirely different read on Adam’s character..

I do not think Lawrence would be an upgrade from Scott.. “Adam needed his calm & collected doctor no matter how badly Lawrence had treated him”..

Their relationship to one another is inherently unhealthy, Adam is dependent on Lawrence to survive. Stalking Lawrence is what puts food on Adam’s table, he needs to work with him to solve the puzzle’s, He needs him to save him, he needs to be comforted by him after being shot. “Lawrence, I need you!”

Presumably, Adam is only still friends with Scott because he has zero respect for himself & thinks he deserves to be abused. Im order for Adam to gain the strength to cut Scott off, he would need to gain self respect and Lawrence is not going to give that to him. Lawrence is older, wealthier, more successful, he has a family.. Adam is just not going to feel good about himself around a man like that. The only thing the bathroom trap really changed was making Adam realize that he actually wants to be alive, I wouldn’t say the trap did anything for his self respect, in fact. it tore him down.

In Adam’s tape, John literally called him “angry, yet apathetic, but mostly just pathetic.” It is not a secret that Adam is just a pawn in Lawrence’s game, he canonically doesn’t matter.

At the end of the game, Zepp would’ve come to free Adam, but his tendency to latch onto people who hurt him, pushes him to murder Zepp. He saves Lawrence, the man who had shot him with (possible) intent to kill, literally 5 seconds ago! Lawrence is everything Adam thinks he deserves, but he doesn’t.. When a man he barely knows tries to kill him, he is not scared, he doesn’t hold it against him, he’s desperate for him. For his touch, his comfort. He holds him tight & begs him to stay. “Don’t leave me!” He needs Lawrence. But Lawrence doesn’t need him.

Lawrence promises Adam he’ll get help, that they’re both gonna be okay.. but Adam rots in that bathroom, with the memory of that empty promise. In the end, he’s finished off by a woman he once tried to show empathy & compassion to. It always ends up like this, Adam is doomed to be hurt by the people in his life.

[chainmotif]

actually noticed the writing on the wall during one of my saw (2004) rewatches:

If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life to me, you will find true life.

which is a slightly altered version of Mark 8:34-35, in which Jesus addresses his disciples:

Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will save it.

[bringmefoxgloves]

saw x possible spoilers

Thank you Star ( @starlightsailfish​ ) for getting the screencap, and all the Sawtuals for listening to my infodump on radiation incidents in Mexico! 

But this particular trap? The one for the woman who faked being cured? She’s being exposed to a radiation therapy unit. 

You can just see the arm of it, down below, turned upside down. Right side up, an older model could look like this:

I believe the glow of the orange is from radioactive decay. Exposure to unshielded radiation, which as most people already know, creates terrible burns from weaker short exposure, and unrecoverable sickness and burns that lead to death from powerful exposure. Either way, she’s in for a rough time.

Based on the real life history of radiation therapy units becoming incidents of widespread contamination (The Ciudad Juárez cobalt-60 incident and the 1962 Mexico City radiation accident come to mind) from being not so closely guarded or maintained, (in Mexico itself, no less!) I think it is absolutely possible for John Kramer to get his hands on a unit, if not from the practice that deceived him, for curing his cancer. Which these units are used to treat. 

[ithinkimnormal]

Sorry but It's actually so annoying how much people downplay the crucial role piltover's corrupt council games played in derailing jayce/viktor's work and pretty much putting shackles around their lives. The council is directly responsible for and directly FUNDING so much of the misery that happens in this show, before the story has even started. Before Powder ever finds the gemstone. They single-handedly doom half of the region to death.

Just during the show: Jayce wanted to create magic to aid and uplift the common people, the council wanted trade route instant teleportators to make themselves richer.

Jayce & Viktor wanted to work on technology to help miners and steelworkers and artisans who are trying to survive in the industrial hellscape of piltover and zaun; the council wants it shelved for another 20 years. (yes, heimer is part of the corrupt council - no matter how much his image is laundered by the fandom.)

They are inept and self-serving leaders, elected by themselves and their blood inheritances, utterly obsessed with ultimate profit. You can really see how parasitic their relationship is to the people at the beggining of act 1. Jayce is a token nameless life, so disposable to them that they were going to burn down all of his research and throw out all of his titles, making him not just a lower-house vassal but an EXILE, and the only reason why that doesn't happen is because they realize how much money they can suck out of his work.

This applies to Viktor too. See the way that Heimerdinger tells him over and over again that no other paths can be taken, he has 'fulfilled his purpose' and he should be content to die. See how Mel looks at Viktor like a bug she wants to squash under her palm when he rejects the idea of making weapons for council. See how they speak over him and only address Jayce, as if he's worth less than nothing.

You are only as valuable as the profit you're willing to create. You are a problem that has to be dealt with as soon as you refuse their orders. They have the power to ruin your life, and if they find an excuse, they will. This is a direct threat pointed at Jayce & Viktor during ACT2, when Jayce is pressured into becoming one of them to protect 'the bottom line profit' and, personally speaking, to avoid that ire being redirected towards Viktor. He's pushed into compliance and told a target has been painted on his back.

Arcane jayvik are doomed in big part not for wanting to do harm, but being forced to exist under the beck and call of billionaire leeches. They are both immigrants. They are both struggling to get a degree and keep themselves afloat and they want to help people so goddamn much but they have to keep postponing their dreams to serve uncaring masters. I really wish there was more fan content focused on these very real bonds of understanding and solidarity between them.

When Viktor says 'Jayce will understand' that's not a fluke; he's lived in this environment for years. He knows Jayce is being pushed down the same way that he is and that deep down they've been kept captive by the exact same people. When Jayce agrees that Viktor should do whatever he needs to do to keep himself alive, he means that from the heart.