#saw meta

[moonyflesh]

the vibe i want to bring to the function:

he serves cunt every time and he knows it.

[bucklway]

was adam meant to free roam the bathroom?

isn’t it so unfair that adam’s key fell down the drain? it’s like he didn’t even have a chance to escape..

but isn’t that the point?

in saw 3, john tells amanda “you didn’t test anyones will to live, instead, you took away their only chance. your games were unwinnable.” and we are shown a montage of these unwinnable games. we see her fighting eric, troy in the classroom trap, kerry in the angel trap..

and her throwing adam’s key in the bathtub..

so how is amanda giving adam his key making his game unwinnable? and why does john consider that moment unfair?

is this meant to imply that amanda wasn’t supposed to do this?

maybe adam was meant to discover this key at some point, like the box in the wall, and free himself before 6. this would make it much harder for lawrence to kill him, adam could hide, he could potentially even escape. or maybe when the game was over, john would decide wether or not adam was worthy of living, getting the key for him. those options feel much more fair then his only mode of freedom falling down the drain the second he wakes up.

let’s talk about what john says in adam’s tape and if it confirms or denies this theory,

he begins with “up until now, you’ve simply sat in the shadows, watching others live out their lives.” then he actually gives adam an objective, a way to win the game, “are you going to watch yourself die today, or do something about it?”

john seems to think that it’s possible for adam to win the game, he’s meant to take control of his life, and escape.

adam managed to stay alive until 6, but he was still left to die.. so what gives? adam learns to appreciate his life and everything, he learns that he wants to be alive “i want to live!” however, what john had told him was “are you going to watch yourself die, or do something about it?”

when you really think about it, adam didn’t do anything to earn his survival. he killed zepp, sure, but that was only after the time limit was up, and he only did it to save lawrence, the man who attempted to kill him like 5 minutes ago. john certainly didn’t view that as enough, because he left him to rot.

“do something about it” could’ve meant that he was supposed to kill lawrence, which i don’t know how he could’ve done that if he’s chained to the other side of the room..

lmk what u guys think!

[saintofdaggers]

I made the absolutely inexplicable decision to rewatch Saw 3D last night, and I noticed something now that my injuries from that movie are still fresh. most of the time Hoffman doesn't have a problem with racking up a double digit body count, but sometimes he turns away from some of his victims. he looked away when Seth died, he looked away when Strahm died, he didn't stay to watch Rigg die, and he just closed his eyes when the reverse bear trap killed Jill, even though he spent so much time hunting her down for revenge. I find it interesting that despite him gradually losing his humanity as a Jigsaw apprentice, he still shows a morsel of conscience sometimes, even if it mostly manifests in him not being able to see his most personal kills all the way to the end

[chainmotif]

amanda didn't know that jeff was coming nor did she know that the cops were about to raid the place, but she shot lynn anyway after john told her to 'think about tomorrow', a tomorrow when john finds out she was with cecil the night jill lost her baby and disowns her, when in reality john probably wouldn't even live through the night and she just couldn't accept it

[bringmefoxgloves]

the thing about the saw movies is that they are perhaps the horror movies (aside from lake mungo and a few other notable exceptions) that so clearly show ‘the dead haunt the narrative’ idea. 

aside from the obvious, of adam haunting the entire narrative through lawrence, there are so many others. the dead might die, but they continue to have a place in the narrative. as bodies in the bathroom (they just keep stacking and stacking, leaving different impressions on the space, different memories for the viewer). as numbers in the killing total of the jigsaw murders, lingering as little more than another bloody death, another facet of terror, but they still leave holes. 

the dead, perhaps the most of all, act as motivators for the living. examples of horrible fates they wish to avoid, people to save. there’s the dead girl haunts the narrative trope at the center of mark hoffman as a character with his sister, there’s the death of a child as a motivator for john kramer (if you accept jigsaw as part of canon, the death of a nephew as well). the death of a child again in the delon family. there’s the death of a father, that drives a child to murder in brent abbott and the threat of death of another child in the matthews family. 

the man who studies the dead, adam heffner, the mortician who has worked on all found victims of jigsaw and thus knows the secrets of the dead, the secrets of jigsaw, is killed by mark hoffman leaping out of a body bag, hidden among the dead. the dead keep their secrets and haunt the narrative and the living aren’t allowed to know them.

peter strahm’s hand is taken by mark hoffman, a puppetry of the dead, using the dead as a cover, as a scapegoat. peter strahm is there long after his death. his partner, lindsey perez, comes back from the dead, and is killed again for it.

john kramer’s death (along with all those around him: amanda and lynn and jeff) is the capstone of saw iii and saw iv opens on his body. his body holds a tape, literally a messenger of the dead. saw vi has perhaps the most telling line in it, spoken to mark who is already haunted with the dead, as he stands over john’s body:

“You think it’s the living who will have the ultimate judgement over you, because the dead will have no claim over your soul.”

[doks-aux]

My favorite thing about John "Jigsaw" Kramer is that at a certain point his actions only make sense if he's deliberately putting himself in situations that will just result in more pain for him so he can then have an excuse to torture people.

Why else buy insurance from a man who spelled out to his face his fully mathematical and detached manner of doing business unless he wanted a reason to punish him and further validation for his worldview?

[karmaphone]

I literally think that John intended to go back for Adam. yeah he insulted him & his importance of Cherishing Your Life (give me that sweet cancer!) but he technically Survived his trap* and we know for a fact that Amanda wasn't supposed to go back and do what she did. I think John kept watching on those cameras** and intended to, just as he died, revive him and recruit him to be an apprentice. we see that at least two other times (Larry and Logan.) adam Passed, he's a stalker capable of following people and getting close without being detected, and he was Absolutely Changed by the experience. he even told him where the key to his chains were, (which he would have had access to if Amanda was willing to touch him again after putting him in the tub by putting the necklace around his neck, instead of just tossing it in the tub to slide down the drain) throw in the fact that Larry joined him and you know he'd join right away, especially considering how bleak and devoid of purpose his life was before and the way he was changed by his test

---

*technically, yes, his challenge was to survive without getting killed by Larry before 6, which he Did Accomplish. However, it was John who said that his challenge is to stop watching and Being A Voyeur and to Actually Do Something, which he did not do (until after 6. he clearly did Stop Being A Voyeur by killing Zepp to save Larry but he didn't do it within the time limit - and rules are rules) therefore I think leaving him in the bathroom (assuming that he had to have freed himself) was another Test - one that was ruined by Amanda's mercy killing

** this would also help to explain why Amanda was tested so many times by John - he watched her break down and ruin her first test and commit an outright murder, and then watched her lie to his face about it after promising to give every cell in her body over to him

[livingbythewords]

The scene in Saw V when Mark asks John lying on the hospital bed “what’s going on with Amanda”, shows another facet of their complicated relationship and it does so in a very subtle but convincing way, mostly thanks to Costas Mandylor’s great acting.

Mark asks the question, but John doesn’t answer it directly, choosing to deflect instead. That’s because he knows what Mark is really asking about and he can’t answer that. Instead, he starts talking about the game again, and gives Mark another task, to redirect his attention and keep it off himself in his fragile, vulnerable state.

Mark buys none of it, and while he might act detached as usual to be a good disciple and follow the rules, his eyes and his whole face are saying something else entirely. Let me help you. Let me take you out of this fucking hospital room and somewhere decent, this is not the place for someone like you, why did I agree to this, you are dying and I can’t do anything about it, why are you doing this to me, why won’t you let me show that I care about you, why would you make anyone do this for you, you know it’s impossible, I can’t do it, no one can, which is why both I and -

“ - Amanda will fail you.”

And that last look Mark gives John before leaving. He knows it’s probably the last time they’ll see each other, with so many things unsaid, so many unspoken truths left between them, so many questions. Mark still isn’t aware of the enormity of John’s betrayal; John himself is perfectly aware of it, but he will never say he is sorry, he will never let himself show that he cares, too. That would require a whole different kind of vulnerability than being seen  physically dying - the one that he was never strong enough to afford.

[saavik]

wait eric matthews knew mark was involved from the beginning of saw iv. thats why he stepped off the block. am i stupid for not seeing this before

[galedekarios]

while i did a gifset to showcase an armour set, i was also intrigued by just how different the animation is for the wizard class vs gale's unique animation:

wizard class animation

gale's unique animation

it's amazing to see not only just how quickly gale performs the somatic component of the spell, but also his efficiency of movement compared to the standard wizard animation.

there's a world of difference here, the difference between a wizard vs a prodigy, an archwizard and chosen.

[bloominglegumes]

i love normal guys doomed by the narrative

[moonyflesh]

behind the scenes of Saw - (2004), starring Cary Elwes as “(Doctor) Lawrence Gordon”, Leigh Whanell as “Adam Stanheight”, and Tobin Bell as “John Kramer”.

((HAPPY JAMES WAN SUMMER!))

[bucklway]

AUs where Adam drops Scott after surviving the bathroom/meeting Lawrence because he gains self respect, are so interesting to me because I feel like I got an entirely different read on Adam’s character..

I do not think Lawrence would be an upgrade from Scott.. “Adam needed his calm & collected doctor no matter how badly Lawrence had treated him”..

Their relationship to one another is inherently unhealthy, Adam is dependent on Lawrence to survive. Stalking Lawrence is what puts food on Adam’s table, he needs to work with him to solve the puzzle’s, He needs him to save him, he needs to be comforted by him after being shot. “Lawrence, I need you!”

Presumably, Adam is only still friends with Scott because he has zero respect for himself & thinks he deserves to be abused. Im order for Adam to gain the strength to cut Scott off, he would need to gain self respect and Lawrence is not going to give that to him. Lawrence is older, wealthier, more successful, he has a family.. Adam is just not going to feel good about himself around a man like that. The only thing the bathroom trap really changed was making Adam realize that he actually wants to be alive, I wouldn’t say the trap did anything for his self respect, in fact. it tore him down.

In Adam’s tape, John literally called him “angry, yet apathetic, but mostly just pathetic.” It is not a secret that Adam is just a pawn in Lawrence’s game, he canonically doesn’t matter.

At the end of the game, Zepp would’ve come to free Adam, but his tendency to latch onto people who hurt him, pushes him to murder Zepp. He saves Lawrence, the man who had shot him with (possible) intent to kill, literally 5 seconds ago! Lawrence is everything Adam thinks he deserves, but he doesn’t.. When a man he barely knows tries to kill him, he is not scared, he doesn’t hold it against him, he’s desperate for him. For his touch, his comfort. He holds him tight & begs him to stay. “Don’t leave me!” He needs Lawrence. But Lawrence doesn’t need him.

Lawrence promises Adam he’ll get help, that they’re both gonna be okay.. but Adam rots in that bathroom, with the memory of that empty promise. In the end, he’s finished off by a woman he once tried to show empathy & compassion to. It always ends up like this, Adam is doomed to be hurt by the people in his life.

[saintofdaggers]

thinking about a certain parallel between Hoffman and Strahm that makes me supremely unwell.

you can already read a lot into their dynamic as narrative foils or parallels, but nowhere is that more clear than in their trials. the fact that they're both tested with head traps is the most obvious surface reading, but those tests say so much about them as characters too. they are both punished for who they are and the choices their personalities have led them to. Strahm is placed in the water cube because he ignored the instructions he received to stay in a safe place: he needed the truth more than he needed safety and he almost died for it. Hoffman's test was planned a long time ago, but when it's administered it's clearly linked to his gratuitous brutality and his exploitation of the Jigsaw philosophy to dispense what he sees as justice (and my goodness, is there a lot to be said about his and Strahm's sense of justice and morality!!!).

and crucially, they both survive their traps in the strictly literal sense... but on a deeper level, they don't. both those head traps were technically unwinnable and they had to seriously injure themselves to escape from them. they live through their trials because they're such stubborn, resourceful bastards, but they come out of those traps damaged and changed for the worse. that damage (Strahm's unhinged drive to uncover the truth behind his trial and Hoffman's utter loss of humanity as he pursues revenge for his) is what leads them to make the choices that doom them in the end.

[chainmotif]

actually noticed the writing on the wall during one of my saw (2004) rewatches:

If you try to keep your life for yourself, you will lose it. But if you give up your life to me, you will find true life.

which is a slightly altered version of Mark 8:34-35, in which Jesus addresses his disciples:

Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will save it.

[bringmefoxgloves]

saw x possible spoilers

Thank you Star ( @starlightsailfish​ ) for getting the screencap, and all the Sawtuals for listening to my infodump on radiation incidents in Mexico! 

But this particular trap? The one for the woman who faked being cured? She’s being exposed to a radiation therapy unit. 

You can just see the arm of it, down below, turned upside down. Right side up, an older model could look like this:

I believe the glow of the orange is from radioactive decay. Exposure to unshielded radiation, which as most people already know, creates terrible burns from weaker short exposure, and unrecoverable sickness and burns that lead to death from powerful exposure. Either way, she’s in for a rough time.

Based on the real life history of radiation therapy units becoming incidents of widespread contamination (The Ciudad Juárez cobalt-60 incident and the 1962 Mexico City radiation accident come to mind) from being not so closely guarded or maintained, (in Mexico itself, no less!) I think it is absolutely possible for John Kramer to get his hands on a unit, if not from the practice that deceived him, for curing his cancer. Which these units are used to treat.