#rwby theorycrafting

[falleri-salvatore]

Jessica Cruz is a palette swapped fusion of Ruby and Pyrrha and I can prove it.

For starters, her NAME references Ruby and Pyrrha in some way. Jessica is a traditionally feminine name with Hebrew roots meaning "riches" or "wealth" which brings to mind gold and silver. Cruz means "cross" in Spanish and Portuguese, either the Christian cross or the figure of transecting lines or ways, which brings to mind brown and silver. Gold represents Pyrrha (well; both Pyrite Gold/Fool's Gold and Copper Gold/Chalcopyrite/Orichalcum) and Silver represents Ruby (Silver Eyes. Hell even the cross imagery references Ruby) In other words: Jessica Cruz's main color theme is Electrum, an alloy that is made of Gold and Silver, and is also known as Green Gold as well as White Gold. Now look at her clothing/color scheme.

PS: Is it any wonder then, that she ended up having such incredible chemistry with Jaune from the word Go?

[cyrusvgz]

Theory time.

We see organic animals and beings but we also see automatons and puppets.

The puppets control everything and there's some kind of war or conflict between two factions. We see a chess board with pieces and later we see what appears to be two of those Chess pieces fighting.

Red Queen vs. White Queen.

White is the smaller one and the Red has the hammer or it could be the other way around.

[megashadowdragon]

jaune may be able to use his semblance to stop Oscar and ozpins souls from merging

Jaune's Semblance

I'm not sure if anybody's discussed this yet about Jaune's Semblance, but maybe this might be interesting anyway.

First of all I should preface this post with the fact the impetus for it is my IRL Best Mate, who suggested it first and mentioned I could post about it on Tumblr. She doesn't have any online accounts to link but I did want to mention it anyway.

She watched RWBY last year at my behest. I was talking to her about the mention that apparently Aura amp isn't quite the right term for Jaune's Semblance and she immediately had an answer since she already sort of suspected otherwise.

She said that it's probably likely he's not just amping Aura but the soul itself. If you trace the characters he's amped so far in the show, they've had as much emotional development as they have Semblance development.

At first I wasn't entirely sure how much this pattern would hold since it only makes sense that a big Summoning would follow Weiss' revival, and then her emotional strength across the Atlas Arc probably came from a place of character development as much as a Semblance... but I think it's arguable here the Semblance is kind of doing some metaphorical character work, both once you take Ren into account, and the way Jaune's Semblance is characterised in the very first episode of V6, right after it emerged at the end of V5:

Both Ruby's encouragement and Jaune's here are doing the work... to the point it makes me wonder if the obvious demonstration of Jaune's Semblance here is doing what I think it's doing (spiritual support).

The argument for Ren seems to be sound since he demonstrated a rapid Semblance progression in V8 - both quickly and in depth. Which is, of course, as a result of emotional/moral development, and all of this is related to the way all Semblances and Aura are doing character work. Of course. Once you get Ren snapping at Jaune in V8, it seems like a pretty natural direction to break, being the outward representation of Ren's internal conflict.

More than that, though, when you count how often Jaune uses his Semblance and on whom, Jaune has used his Semblance - at this point - most frequently on Ren. That there's some type of catalytic effect seems likely.

Which is why it's interesting there's a prominent use of Jaune's Semblance on Nora in V8. Given that we're likely getting more Nora development over the next volume after establishing the scene so far with V8, this may be setting that character progression up symbolically - setting up her Semblance evolving beyond being only 'strong enough to hit stuff' in her eyes...

Since Aura is essentially the material expression of the soul, it makes sense that if Jaune's Semblance is 'more than' Aura amping, it's actually something which goes deeper - literally - and affects the narrative and character progression.

To me, it seems like the only way to explain it without getting bogged down in mechanics which don't matter... and if with established evidence the amping is now not 'just' about combat dynamics but something deeper, then I'm all for it and it fits thematically.

[anthurak]

So I’ve been meaning to do a post on this topic for a while now, specifically ever since the release of the RWBY Volume 9 Epilogue short had me reevaluating one of my big issues with the volume. Namely this:

Just because a theory or take might work great for one specific character DOES NOT mean it works for the story as a whole.

You might have what feels like a great theory or take for this one character that could make total sense for them and could be great to see.

But ONLY for that character. Because this theory, as great as it might sound on paper, ignores drastic issues and effects that it would cause to OTHER characters or story elements or tone or themes that simply make it non-viable.

Essentially, it’s fandom tunnel-vision making you forget that nothing exists in a vacuum.

Alternatively, it could be taking issue with a certain narrative choice made for a certain character that might feel like it’s not living up to its potential or just being angry that your favorite blorbo didn’t get to do or be this thing you really wanted for them. All while ignoring that this writing choice could have been done to facilitate a much LARGER narrative goal.

So let’s talk about the end of Volume 9 and why I can no longer take issue with the choice to de-age Jaune.

Some might recall a post I did shortly after the end of Volume 9 decrying how Jaune was turned back to his young-adult age. How this felt like a typical ‘magic reset button’ that undid so much of the potential that ‘Old Man Jaune’ had and how it would have been so much more interesting to keep Jaune old and letting both he, the characters and the story explore and grapple with these changes. Essentially, a classic rant about ‘wasted potential’.

HOWEVER… after watching the Epilogue animatic, I get it. I get why CRWBY not only CHOSE to physically reset Old Man Jaune, but why they actually HAD to.

Because that ending scene with Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Yang and Jaune walking out of Raven’s portal, being reunited with their friends, seeing everything that Ruby’s message accomplished, and that overwhelming feeling of pure HOPE that the volume ends on…

That just wouldn’t have worked with Old Man Jaune.

CRWBY wanted to convey a feeling of pure HOPE and relief and optimism and an unambiguously HAPPY ending, and Jaune coming back as this old man so different from how his friends remembered him would have DEMINISHED that feeling.

As much as I like the idea of Old Man Jaune and don’t like the idea of this kind of ‘magic reset button’, I have to agree that turning him back to young-adult Jaune was the RIGHT choice for what Kerry, Miles, Eddie and the rest of team wanted to do for the end of Volume 9.

And I think there’s a lesson to be learned from that, you know?

That headcanonning might be fun, but if you’re going to be doing real serious theorizing about what you think or hope might ACTUALLY happen in a story, and perhaps even more importantly if you’re being CRITICAL as to what a story has already done, you have to keep a more holistic, ‘big-picture’ viewpoint in mind. Particularly for a complex, long-form story with a lot of moving narrative parts like RWBY.

[bestworstcase]

I found your blog via your post about yang and strength, got really interested, and then I ended up reading through a loooooot of your rwby commentary, and now I’ve got a question for you, if you don’t mind: Is it okay to want Penny to come back? I’ve read a lot of your analysis of her story arc and character, specifically that giant post you wrote about her in november 2021. i um, have definitely been guilty of wanting her to come back a whole lot. I’ve definitely done some frantic and outlandish theorycrafting to cope, but also I really do see what you mean about how her atlas arc is meant to be a tragic ending, so I don’t know how to reconcile my appreciation for the show’s story with my desire of just… really wanting to see her again?

This isn’t me asking you about whether or not she might come back because I’ve made my peace with whatever happens, this is just me asking if like… am I entitled or ungrateful for missing her so much that it makes me cry when such a wonderful story is being told in the show as a whole?

of course it’s okay!!!

the fact that her death had such a profound and lasting emotional impact on you speaks to the strength of the storytelling and the care that the writers poured into her character. tragedy aspires to incite the feelings you’re describing for the purpose of emotional release; catharsis is the whole reason tragedy exists at all.

you’re not just allowed to cry—you’re meant to. you’re supposed to care deeply that she’s gone. it matters. the story grieves for her and it’s inviting you to grieve too. when ruby breaks down over losing penny, it’s okay to be right there with her emotionally.

wanting her to come back or hoping that she might is a natural aspect of that feeling. theorizing—even in a grasping at straws kind of way—is a natural way to process that feeling. so is writing or reading “fix-it” fic or other kinds of AUs where penny survives or returns or never endured that ordeal in the first place. inherent to catharsis is the idea that letting painful feelings out is not only good but necessary for emotional well-being.

(you are also under no obligation to like every creative decision a story makes and it is entirely okay to feel like penny dying in v8 lessened your enjoyment of the story overall, if that’s how you feel. by no means do you owe it to any story to like everything about it just because it’s written well.)

what is entitled is the attitude held by a specific subset of hardcore penny 3.0 theorists that penny’s death was something bad that the writers did to the audience that they now have an obligation to “fix” or “make right”—often accompanying a sentiment along the lines of “why even bring her back if they were just going to kill her off?” and dismissal of her entire presence in the atlas arc as “just fanservice,” sometimes with the implication that the writers took advantage of penny fans only to stab them in the back.

the entitlement comes from the failure or refusal to recognize that the writer’s room does not revolve around what penny fans would like to happen (or indeed fans of any other character) and a narrative turn that upsets you is not something that the writers have done to hurt you. it’s entitled to act like the writers owe it to you to bring a character back to life, which was the general tenor of a lot of high-profile penny 3.0 discourse back in 2021 although the attitude has mellowed since then.

(& just in case: if you, personally, were in the category of penny fans who felt outraged or hurt back then and wanted to demand that the writers make it up to you by reviving her, and you’ve since reflected on those feelings and moved on from them to—as you say—make peace with whatever the story has planned, That Is Also Okay, and you should not beat yourself up over it. this is not something you need to feel guilty about.)

as for how to reconcile appreciating the story for what it is and still feeling like crying when you think about penny… i mean this completely in earnest, even if you’ve never written anything before in your life, try writing a fanfic where she lives or finds her way back or her friends manage to save her. not just reading or looking at fanart—i do think that there is really something to be said for making your own fanworks. writing or drawing gives you a degree of control over what happens in your story or artwork that you can’t get anywhere else and that can be a very comforting outlet when mourning a character.

you’re okay.

[bug-the-chicken-nug]

I've been meaning to get around to this for a long time and I was going to make it a more gussied up and "formalized" sort of theorycrafting post, but fuck it, im just gonna freestyle it.

So basically

My idea of what makes magic different in RWBY basically comes down to source.

Semblances use Aura, and Magic doesn't.

You power magic by sucking in the invisible natural energies of the universe around you. And this *theoretically* has all the energy you could feasibly want.

But why aren't mages unstoppable, then?

Because Aura is still important in a *different* way, and is now like your "stabilizer" or "foundation", rather than your fuel.

Just because magic has almost unlimited fuel doesn't mean *your* capabilities are unlimited, in much the same way as how a car wouldn't suddenly become omni-capable just because its fuel tank endlessly refills.

So basically, Aura is now still important for making yourself a *sturdier* and more *reliable* car for pulling crazy magic stunts.

In this way, magic overuse is sometimes actually worse and more dangerous than Aura overuse.

Instead of your power having a point where it'll naturally run out, it *won't* do that by itself, it just gets increasingly painful and unstable.

And looking at a different angle of all this, someone like Ozpin can still become a *worse* mage over time despite having "infinite fuel" because his body's "entryway" for magic, or proverbial Magical Succ Strength, has become increasingly Shit over time, and whenever he splits off a new, smaller and more specialized "entryway" for someone else to use, he has to reduce the diameter of his own accordingly.

So basically he has access to the world's BIGGEREST pool of pure rocket fuel but he has to sip it daintily with a teensy widdle silly straw.

Salem, meanwhile, is actually being nerfed by what the gods did to her, in a way.

She can't just instantly nuke anyone within sight because *her* system is constantly forced to passively run one very taxing spell in particular, and that spell is called Being THEE Most Unkillable There Ever Was.

This is effectively using up a bunch of this bitch's RAM and bandwidth at all times, and her trip to the Forbidden Hot Tub only made it Worse.

"But Salem is an INDESTRUCTIBLE car" you say. "She's That Fucking Car your great uncle has thats like a majillion years old but still works great somehow! So if she wants to she could just squnch out more magic, overclock herself like mad, and not care about what happens to her!"

Ohr but you see i Thot of that.

See, even if you are Thee Car Of All Time, magic overuse still fundamentally warps you and strains you in ways that your body at some point no longer registers as "damage" and are instead just like... a new, worse sort of "normal". Kind of like accumulating a bunch of metaphorical scar tissue and junk. But you are supposed to be a car in this analogy still so like. I guess you're some kind of horrid flesh car that has the ability to scar. Freak.

This also can mean that your like magical cloaca for succing can slowly get smaller or less powerful if you keep pulling that horseshit, with a similar sort of logic where its degradation is not properly recognized as "damage".

And this is why Salami is escared to just nuke or Power Word Kill any bitch that so much as rears their head in her 100 mile vicinity.

She doesn't want her magical clussy to prolapse.

THE END!

[arc-knights]

okay but - she didn't write the book

she's the main character

Alyx writing that book without saying she manipulated Curious Cat, poisoned Jaune and sacrificed her own brother

[masterweaverx]

It’s time for another chaotic connect the dots theory! Settle in, kids, this is going to be a bombshell.

Salem’s longterm goal is to get all four relics, summon the gods, and destroy Remnant. So the win condition for her is Get The Relics. The only things currently stopping her are the vaults, otherwise it’s just a matter of attrition and patience, which she has in spades. This is obviously a Bad Thing.

Now Ruby’s our new leader. She’s willing to do things Ozpin isn’t, and we’ve seen how far she’s willing to go to protect people. She looks at every angle and if she doesn’t like the game, she will flip the board. LITERALLY dropped Atlas to save its citizens. Do not doubt her focus.

And here’s a little detail. Jinn--and maybe all the Relic spirits, but most obviously Jinn--is based on the Genie of the Lamp from Aladdin stories. And just in case you didn’t see it, the Disney version of that story ends with the genie being set free, his shackles popping off.

So, using a relic summons a spirit, who is in chains. But those chains--or their equivalent--fall off the Genie in the movie. And if the spirit of a relic is free, well, that renders the matching relic inoperable doesn’t it? And if Salem can’t use a relic, she can’t meet her end goal.

So here’s my theory: Ruby Rose is, at some point, going to destroy one or more of the relics.

[falleri-salvatore]

If Jaune actually were to go villain, he would be not be an omnicidal maniac; he would be an absurdly overpowered yet well-intentioned tyrant....

He would have the ambitious persistence of Cinder... The inhuman resilience, endurance and sheer overwhelming power of Hazel... The manipulative and vindictive cunning of Salem... The self-destructive selflessness of Ozma... The unyielding and unrelenting determination and conviction (read: stubbornness) of Ironwood...

...and to top all of the above: an undying body as well as an eternal soul that both evolved beyond humanity due to overuse of Aura Amp pretty much making them transcend into becoming superhuman. In other words, he has acquired both of Salem's (cannot die by old age or illness and instantly regenerates any damage inflicted to him and instantly regenerates any spent Aura) and Ozma's (even IF his body is somehow destroyed, his soul will still persist and, unlike Ozma, he can actually choose which vessel to possess as his next body) forms of immortality naturally and by accident instead of as a curse (because it would not be Jaune Arc if he doesn't get double the suffering than the previous Big Good and Big Bad)... He can be beaten, but not by strength, nor underhanded tactics, nor by outsmarting him, and definitely NOT by outlasting or out-stubborning him. He can only be defeated by making him acknowledge that he needs to rest and to finally trust that people under the yoke of his well-intentioned tyranny won't all suddenly die without him.

[cyrusvgz]

I think the Curious Cat is purposely doing things and setting Ruby up to have her character challenged. I feel like whenever Ruby is alone it's because the Curious Cat did something for it to end up that way.

I think this because of the two most recent episodes. The Curious Cat left Team RWBY behind before they met Herb. He didn't jump in to interfere until he saw that Ruby wasn't able to handle the challenge Herb put her in.

Then the next episode he starts acting distracted and gets WBY to follow him. When Ruby is alone she meets the carpenter who gives her the option to change any time she wants to. Cat doesn't interfere this time because Ruby isn't in any danger of failing or being harmed.

I don't think it's a coincidence that he showed up exactly when Ruby needed him to during the Red Prince's game to save Team RWBY.

[short-wooloo]

Plus there's so much more potential for angst and feels if everyone on Remnant thought RWBY+J were dead for a year

[headcanonrepository]

I have a lot of thoughts about Neo. She's an amazing character to theorycraft about given that we still know next to nothing about her even after all this time! And my wife and I steadfastly refuse to believe that what we see is all that's going on with her (come on, her whole thing is manipulating her image, you can't just read her at face value!). So here's a bit of a masterpost of our predictions/theories about what she's doing and why:

Until the fall of Beacon, it's pretty obvious what she's doing and why so I won't go into too many details. She's Roman's trusted right hand woman, she's obviously very loyal to him for reasons we can only guess at but One Thing hinted at him finding her on her own and taking her in. (Which would be interesting if the show contrasted that past against Cinder's, Nora's and Emerald's...they're really fond of orphan girls developing co-dependent relationships with the first person to show them a crumb of kindness, huh? Anyway, that's another post)

Everything she does for Cinder at Beacon is following Roman's instructions. I'd like to think he had an exit strategy that didn't involve being Grimm chow, but we didn't get to know anything about it. Either way, they are so close to being done with this and then Roman's 'death' happens (not to beat a dead horse but as I’ve said before, if the Hound is a person, it makes more narrative sense that it's Roman and until I see some concrete proof, I'm going with supposed death. Either way, the important thing is that Neo thinks he's dead)

So Neo is pissed. She wants revenge. And Cinder is absolutely at blame, her plan got Roman killed. Neo tracks her down with a little help from the criminal underworld and has Cinder on the ropes until she pulls out the maiden card. It’s worth noting that throughout that fight, the cinematography makes sure that we see Neo noticing both Cinder’s bandaged (Grimm) arm and her subtle manifesting of the maiden powers (fiery punch) before she actually relies on maiden powers to stop the fight. 

Cinder tries to persuade Neo that Ruby is who she should really want to kill. Now, I don't think Neo believes that for a second. She keeps fighting Cinder after her first attempt to shift the blame onto Ruby, only stopping after Cinder uses a blatant display of power Neo can’t or won’t match. My guess is either: she realized that if Cinder drew on her full power, she wasn't going to win OR she realized that her true target is whoever/whatever controls the Grimm and Cinder isn't it. Potentially both, with Cinder still being a target for revenge but only after the bigger problem is dealt with.

So she seemingly teams up with Cinder to get information/lull her into a false sense of security. And she gets a lot of information very quickly - Cinder tells her about the relics and maidens and Salem pretty much immediately in Haven vault. (Cinder really underestimates people if she thinks they’re on her side and if that isn’t going to bite her in the ass this season, I’ll be very surprised. Probably won’t be Neo, but her treatment of Emerald has been a problem for a while and that’s got to hit a breaking point soon)

They get to Atlas and bide their time/gather information until they find out where the relic is and how to get it. Neo makes a point of 'telling' Cinder she wants to go after Ruby but after being told no, she doesn't push it any further. At this point, Neo knows where Ruby is and had a great opportunity to go after her if that's really what she wanted. And at any point after the dinner party, she could have split from Cinder to go after Ruby if she wanted to. She hasn't.

She gets the relic for Cinder. She toys with ORNJ in the process but her main aim isn't to kill. She’s literally fighting with one hand behind her back at one point. In fact, she hangs around much longer than she had to, she swiped the relic off Oscar off screen appearing as ‘someone else’ - she could have made off with it without a confrontation at all. She hung around so everyone got a good look at her and knew she was there. Nora even identified her. Almost like she wants the good guys to know what she's doing and who is doing it. Then she goes. (Random thought: I know CRWBY have said the ‘Oscar punch’ was an animation error but what if that literally is Neo ‘showing her face’ in the least suspicious way possible and CRWBY don’t want to say it because it’s too much of a spoiler?)

Cinder doesn't seem appreciative of her actions and dismisses her contributions and she appears put out by it. I suspect that's more for Cinder's benefit - a lack of any reaction might be suspicious.

Cinder and Neo deliver the relic to Salem and from here on out, every whale scene Neo does as little as possible to draw attention to herself, staying out of Salem's notice, standing off to the side or behind Cinder, doing nothing to draw suspicion...but she's watching and listening in every scene. 

She doesn't want Cinder to go after Penny, but winds up going anyway when it looks unavoidable. In the resulting fight with Maria, Neo comes off as she isn't even trying; she's slower than usual, less lethal. I believe it's plausible deniability for not helping Cinder - she was busy. But she did make it super clear to Maria that she knows who Ruby is, and Maria is alive to communicate that at some point. Neo only gets the upper hand when Maria is distracted by Penny’s fall (or to see it another way, when Cinder has enough free time to pay a second of attention to the other fight in the room and see that Neo isn’t really trying).

So Neo doesn’t want to be there. And she doesn’t want to help Cinder out once she is there. Why not? Either she's still after revenge against Cinder and giving Cinder more power (via winter maiden) wouldn't help that and/or Salem said no and Neo is trying to be as passive and non-confrontational as possible to slip under the radar while she gathers information on Salem. My money is on both. 

If Cinder had had Neo and Emerald's full help against Penny, I don't think Penny would still be around. And that would mean the Winter Maiden powers would be with either Cinder (bad for revenge), Emerald (Cinder would just kill Emerald, leading back to option 1) or Neo (Cinder would try to kill Neo and while Neo might be able to escape, she's got a massive target on her back and she'll not be able to get information on or plot against Salem anymore, which would be bad for revenge in a different way).

What does this mean for the future? Well, Neo is going to keep pretending to be on side until she either has information or an opportunity to mess up all of Salem’s plans. She knows Salem needs the relics. I could see her breaking Oscar out and sending him on his way with the lamp at some point (and TBH, I would love to see what the main guys make of that and how they try to rationalize her behaviour). Or she could use the rifts forming in Salem’s team to undermine Salem’s plans (but I think Oscar is already on that one). Or she could be waiting a lot longer before taking action. 

Basically, there's only two ways I can rationalize Neo's fluctuating character motivations and abilities. Either a) CRWBY aren't thinking about her as much as I am or b) Neo is playing a very long game of revenge. After all, it's best served cold, like ice cream! ;)

Until I know for certain otherwise, I'm going to believe it's b.

[anthurak]

So there is one subtle, but also very important detail about RWBY’s storytelling that I feel is often overlooked even in very well thought-out theories about where the story and/or characters are going.

That being, despite how much CRWBY takes reference from fairy tales, folklore, mythology and many other stories, they NEVER play a reference, allusion or trope straight. There is ALWAYS some form of twist, subversion, deconstruction, or otherwise in how the story and character beats have played out.

Little Red Riding Hood is not prayed on by monsters, she is a monster hunter. Pinocchio isn’t turned into a real boy, but rather is proven to have always been a real boy (or girl, in this case). The Wizard of Oz really is a great and powerful wizard, but he’s also still a liar and a charlatan. Cinderella is Evil because the fairy godmother she got was basically Maleficent. Even Sun Wukong himself takes a Journey to the East. And that’s not even touching on how CRWBY have subverted the absolute hell out of two of the most well-worn fantasy-hero-protagonist archetypes with Jaune (Heroic Destiny) and Oscar (Chosen One), and possibly a third depending on how Penny’s arc shakes out.

Basically, any serious theory about where the story and characters of RWBY are going that uses ‘because that’s what happened in the source material’ as it’s main bit of evidence is kind of missing a really crucial detail.

[cyrusvgz]

I like the idea that some semblances can used to ping people and sense them approaching. Like any semblance that has to be used on a person or object can be used to do that.

Example: One of my OCs has a semblance that lets him teleport but he has to swap places with another person or object within 15ft. He can theoretically use his semblance to sense someone approaching within his range.

I theorize that Pyrrha can do it too by using her semblance lightly on the metal around her and feel when someone is coming because that particular piece of metal is moving. It complicates aura and semblances for people who still somehow don't understand how they work but I think it's cool so I threw it into my AU.

Interesting line of earlier thought on Cinder's now-former illusionist stooges. Agreed that Neo was likely brought back for the sheer hype factor, though if that hadn't happened & Emerald hadn't been set up for a face turn? I'd have scaled back her semblance's range & focus development a bit, 'cause as of V8 it seems like you'd need some *serious* AOE action (or IR goggles) not to get bamboozled & scythed up even without Cindy or Merc further ruining your day.

Emerald's Semblance does seem pretty powerful, but I don't think it's outright broken when we've seen characters like Ren detect enemies from out of visual range by sensing Aura somehow. I'm not sure whether Faunus canonically have enhanced senses beyond effective night vision or if that's just a bit of fanon, but if so, that's another countermeasure, and we've always got Standard Anime Fighting Instincts to fall back on.

[bestworstcase]

So I've been wondering why you seem so contemptuous about Cinder getting rid of her Grimm Arm and it's just that you think she can fry it off, okay. Think there's more to it as a shock collar analogue than Salem demonstrating the ability and willingness to hurt her with a thought, but also how Cinder never knocked the button away as she killed the Madame. That Cinder will hold onto what hurts her until she Wins is, pretty obviously what will destroy her if she never learns how to let go.

my feelings re: removal of the grimm arm are twofold, really.

1 - whenever the subject of cinder either getting rid of or being ‘saved’ from the grimm arm arises, the common scenarios put forward nine times out of ten involve some variation on “…and then ruby uses her silver eyes to blast it off,” often followed by “and cinder is so grateful that her cynical worldview shatters and cinderdemption happens” which, um.

i am really skeptical of any proposed path to a cinder villain-to-hero arc whose emotional turning point hinges on ruby dismembering her again, especially because the most common variation by a wide margin is: “cinder has been disarmed and her aura is broken and she’s crumpled at ruby’s feet waiting for the killing blow, and then ruby magnanimously silver glares the grimm arm away to save her, cue redemption arc” LIKE. WHAT??

the grimm arm is in a sense a repetition of the shock collar situation but it is also,, LITERALLY CINDER’S ARM. IT IS A PART OF HER BODY. you can’t… take it away from her against her will and expect her to get positive emotional growth out of her you’re just going to traumatize her more!! it’s her arm!!

in the event that cinder chooses to get rid of it herself, it’s not going to be an emotionally easy or straightforward process because, again, we are talking about dismemberment. if it gets to the point where cinder is incinerating the grimm arm to free herself from salem we are at ‘trapped animal gnawing off her own leg’ levels of desperate, and even more desperate than that if she willingly turns to ruby, the girl who dismembered her in the first place, to save her from it.

but because the arm is also grimm the theorycrafting on removal really doesn’t… engage with that emotional reality, and cinder’s arm is treated solely as a parasitic shock collar that she needs to get rid of before it destroys her, often accompanied by this underlying stance that cinder is too blinded by obsession with power to notice she’s being abused again. which… hm.

a) cinder knows she’s being harmed. she explicitly associates salem’s abuse of the arm with madame’s use of the shock collar. she knows.

b) when cinder received the grimm arm she had… dubious feelings towards it, kept it covered, and avoided using it; since then she has been steadily inching away from concealment (long loose sleeve -> bandages under loose sleeve -> fitted glove -> bare arm) as she gets more comfortable with it. if the fact that it’s grown up her arm bothers her she has yet to give any indication. she fidgets and casually gestures with it. like. this thing is not just a weapon salem gave her for the exclusive purpose of hunting maidens it is her arm; cinder suffered an extremely traumatic dismemberment, and the grimm arm represents an important part of her healing process.

so i feel, um, WEIRD about fan discussions where the grimm arm is presumed to be, like, a parasitic monster salem hoodwinked cinder into accepting and of course cinder couldn’t possibly have complicated feelings about it, let alone any genuinely positive ones.

i guess fundamentally i just… don’t read the grimm arm as a dire threat cinder urgently needs saving from, and i feel very put off by removal theories that arise from that mindset.

2 - my impression of the rwby fandom in general is that the fandom has by and large bought into the idea that salem is the way she is primarily because of grimm “corruption” and by extension that cinder is currently on the same path, i.e. the grimm arm is bad because by nature of being grimm it is corroding cinder’s humanity.

the implied corollary here is that if you could take the grimm out of salem or cinder then that would fix what’s wrong with them, which… nnno. i don’t buy that, and after eight whole volumes of meticulous narrative deconstruction of “creation/light=good!” i find it hard to believe that rwby is ultimately going to play the reverse principle of “destruction/dark=bad!” straight. i’ve touched on this before but in a fantasy world where the human soul is explicitly free will with an equal capacity for creation and destruction, it would be a profoundly strange narrative choice for getting rid of destruction to be the ultimate solution to the conflict.

so, separate from everything outlined in the first point, i also feel Some Type Of Way about hypothetical redemption arcs for salem/cinder that center physical purification as the fulcrum of change. if cinder can be fixed via forcible removal of the grimm arm, that makes some implications about her agency and ability to choose her own path that i find to be really unpleasant and narratively disappointing. she’s the maiden of choice. i don’t want her to be saved. i don’t want her to be redeemed because somebody else chose to fix her whether she liked it or not.

i want her to choose.

and while i probably would go nuts for an arc where cinder gradually comes to see the grimm arm as a tool of salem’s control and decides that she wants freedom enough to burn her own arm off... because of the setup we’re already seeing with salem, i’m not convinced that will end up being cinder’s only or best option—and personally i feel that removal in any form is the least interesting possible route.

soo, when i see developments like cinder getting more and more comfortable with the grimm arm and seeming to integrate it as a genuine part of herself happening in tandem with cinder also getting bolder in how she challenges salem, less afraid, more willing to transgress the rules and boundaries of her subordinate relationship to salem… i think that what a lot of cinder fans took away from the changing dynamic in v8 was this sense of mounting urgency, of cinder reaching a crossroads where it’s no longer sustainable for her to remain in salem’s inner circle and she has to either get out now or she’ll lose whatever agency she has left. but what i saw, watching this, was actually mounting pressure on salem to change, because whatever control she had over cinder before the haven debacle is gone, giving orders doesn’t work even when they’re backed by the threat of torture, and the only way she’s going to keep cinder on her side in the long run is if she starts to engage on cinder’s terms.

taking the events of v8 in that context, the question of whether or not cinder will remove her arm is intertwined with the question of whether or not salem will make that necessary. salem has always placed an enormous degree of importance on cinder’s role in her plan. how far is she willing to bend to keep her in that role? what compromises is she willing to make? she already gave an inch, cinder is absolutely going to try for a mile, and it is… not inconceivable that she might succeed?

and because—to my mind—the danger the grimm arm poses to cinder lies entirely in what salem chooses to do with the control she has over it, if cinder does manage to change the dynamic between herself and salem in this fundamental way, breaking the control at the level of salem’s actions, then… the question of removing the arm itself becomes moot.

ANYWAY,

on the subject of the madame and the shock collar.

i’m actually not sure i agree on that reading of cinder going right for the throat without disarming the madame first?

generally my take is that cinder, upon being pushed beyond the limits of what she could endure, attacked the root of the problem first. the sisters ratted her out and tried to take her ticket to freedom away, so she killed them. the madame tortures her, cinder kills her. rhodes tries to arrest her, cinder kills him too. at every stage there was—at least in theory—something else cinder could have done to protect herself, whether that be running away while the sisters fetched their mother or knocking the shock collar’s remote out of the madame’s hand or appealing to rhodes on the grounds that she acted in self defense.

but cinder wasn’t. in a frame of mind where de-escalation was even possible; she’d been backed into a corner and tortured while her abusers ripped away the tiniest little bit of illusory freedom she’d managed to hold onto, and she… reacted. maybe she could have escaped that night by ripping off the collar and running; she’s got a sword, what are these untrained civilians gonna do to stop her? but to be able to think of doing that requires a modicum of, of rationality, of being able to take a step back and assess, and all cinder could do, all cinder could think about in the heat of the moment, was MAKING IT STOP.

and… she acted on that need by killing them, which put an immediate and permanent end to both the pain they were inflicting on her right then and the possibility that they could hurt her again in the future.

the temporary patch of knocking the remote out of the madame’s hand first probably didn’t even occur to her, because i don’t think she was in a state where she could even, like mentally separate the pain from the madame. “she’s using that remote to hurt me, if i take the remote away from her she won’t be able to hurt me anymore” is reasoning that demands a certain degree of abstraction that “she is hurting me” does not.

why disarm the person tormenting you when you can just eliminate them instead? cut the problem down at its source.

and while it’s logically better to remove the weapon being used to hurt you first, cinder really isn’t the kind of person who can think logically through intense pain or extreme emotion. she acts on instinct and her instinct is to go for the throat.

that’s exactly how she lost the winter maiden in 7.13. winter chopped off her arm and completely diverted her attention away from penny and fria because pain overrode her rational thought and she tunnel visioned on cutting down the person who hurt her.

in the context of salem and cinder’s association of salem with the madame this gets murkier because cinder can’t deal with salem the way she dealt with madame, because salem can’t be killed. i think that informs a lot of the contradictory emotion in how cinder thinks of salem—she hates salem, resents salem, admires salem, emulates salem—all because she can’t just knee-jerk brute force her way out of salem hurting her, and that generates the emotional turmoil that bubbles out as this increasingly blatant power struggle.

more broadly though i do agree that cinder doesn’t really know how to disengage—she can do tactical retreat, she can pull off drastic changes in strategy when she realizes an approach isn’t working, but she doesn’t stop fighting until she either feels that she’s won or she physically can’t continue fighting anymore.

which… i think comes less from pure stubbornness than it does from a conviction that she has to keep fighting for every scrap of freedom she’s clawed out of the world since the night she killed the madame. fundamentally cinder doesn’t feel safe, has never felt safe, and isn’t capable of letting her guard down because she believes that if she relaxes for even a second, everything she has will be ripped away from her again. so imo it’s less a question of learning how to let go of things than it is a question of learning how to trust, how to unravel this constant terror that she’s one wrong move away from being nothing again.

[luimnigh]

What's your favorite RWBY theory that later turned out to be true?

That’s honestly a difficult question to answer, for a few reasons.

To begin with, it’s genuinely hard to remember the ones that ended up being right, due to the sheer volume and variety of theories you see. You might see an accurate prediction, but ultimately end up forgetting it among the sea of failed predictions. 

Also, most accurate predictions end up being small things, or well-foreshadowed things. Everyone predicted an Oscar kidnapping, everyone predicted Ilia turning good. At a point, you just accept something is gonna happen, and it doesn’t surprise you as much, and as such it doesn’t stick in your head. 

Finally, on a more personal level: up until just around two years ago, most of my RWBY fandom experience had been on TvTropes and Reddit. Neither of which are really good representations of the RWBY fandom, and as a result their theorycrafting is rarely on the right track. Generally there’s a tendency towards cynicism in those parts of the fandom that the show doesn’t replicate. 

.

All that being said, though?

Yang hitting Adam with the bike.