#rtte essay

[violet-moonstone]

Heathers Part 4: Rogue Heather and Conclusion

Part 3

This is my favourite option, which is why I saved it for last. This route focuses on skills Heather could much more believably pick up on her own—in fact, these are skills we already see her exhibiting in RoB. This version of Heather is very much like Arya Stark—minus the combat training—specifically, Arya when she’s in Braavos. She’s good at hiding, sneaking around, pickpocketing, etc. She would rely on changing her behaviour and appearance to fit the situation and slowly build her arsenal of disguises as she improves her skill and has more resources at her disposal. One day, she might appear as a raggedy street urchin; the next, a bawdy barmaid; then, a haughty noblewoman or cunning hunter.

Her primary use of this skill would be survival—blending into the background or standing out without people knowing her true identity—but this would also be strategic. She could get information either from being a fly on the wall no one considers being cautious around, or by being charismatic and charming people into trusting her. In more extreme situations, she could slip poison into the drink of a bar patron, set fire to the room of someone who thinks she’s their servant, or (in a version of RTTE with a more mature rating) stab someone once they’re in her bed. (I’ve written a fic about this)

I think this option makes the most sense, because it requires no retconning of her backstory and includes the most believable skillset for someone without any training. I also think that with a heavy focus on stealth, it wouldn’t make sense for her to have a large, armoured dragon with reflective scales (once again, sorry Windshear). Instead she could have a small dragon that could help her with fetching things, being on watch for danger, and shooting fire at close range. I’m thinking a Terrible Terror or something similar. Although a small dragon with similar traits to a Changewing would be really cool, like a winged chameleon of sorts—but maybe instead of becoming invisible, it just mimics different colours and textures.

In terms of costumes for Rogue Heather, it can really be anything. She’d probably need a base outfit for when she’s not in disguise, in which case, I’d go for something like the redesigns all the dragon riders except Hiccup got, which was basically putting them in the same clothes as in RoB/DoB but with different colours. I think the outfit Heather’s wearing in RoB is pretty good for a rogue type character already—just use a slightly different colour scheme that’s still faded, and keep the hood from her current design. Her disguises could be much more dramatic and could include wigs and makeup as well.

I have a headcanon that she has a favourite disguise though. Due to all the danger and insecurity she’s faced, she’s become ruthlessly ambitious—not just for revenge, but for wealth and power. She never wants to have to worry about being unsafe or scrounging around to survive. I think her favourite roles to play are rich and powerful women. In these roles, she gets to wear something beautiful—I’m thinking a deep green gown that brings out her eyes. It could also be a reference to serpents and envy, which goes hand in hand with her use of poison and her desire for the finer things in life.

I love this version of Heather. I’m currently in the early stages of writing a very long fic (that will probably just include regular Heather because the story already has a lot of OCs and moving parts), however, if I get enough inspiration, I might write some one-shots here and there about her.

Some ideas for her more fancy/aspirational disguises:

From left to right: Labyrinth (2012), BBC’s Merlin (I always thought Katie McGrath would be a great grown-up Heather)

(Some more historical Norse looks)

And a more everyday look:

(From Voriagh)...tell me this model isn't LITERALLY HEATHER. I think it's the murder in her eyes.

(Arya in Game of Thrones, tunics from Dark Knight Armoury)

Conclusion...After a Note About Combat and Women in Fantasy

Before I finish, I want to briefly touch upon another issue I have with Heather’s character. You may have noticed that the latter two options I gave have a much stronger emphasis on her intelligence and/or social skills than her physical prowess – I did this intentionally because I find that RTTE lacks characters who are not combat focused (Even Johann turned out to be a skilled knife-thrower. I miss when he was just a friendly and knowledgable—though talkative—merchant). While I appreciate that the female characters in the show are shown to be capable fighters, they don’t all need to be. I think fantasy and sci-fi writers tend to forget that making women into combatants is not the only way to make them strong, empowered, or interesting. There are so many ways that characters, regardless of gender, can have agency and be integral to a plot; these ways don’t have to include putting a heavy weapon in their hands. I’ve briefly discussed this in another post, but I think the dynamic between Viggo and Ryker would be much more interesting if Viggo were not physically strong and had to depend on Ryker’s strength just as much as Ryker depended on Viggo’s wits. And while Hiccup’s sword fighting abilities are commendable, let’s not forget that his first great achievement would never have been possible without curiosity, intelligence and empathy—the three things required to befriend Toothless—not physical strength. I love Race to the Edge, and I understand the combat-heavy focus (because “Vikings”) but I do wish there was just a bit more variety when it comes to the way characters navigate dangerous situations.

Alright, so there you have it: My 3 Heathers. I’m very tempted to draw all three of them, to get a clearer image of what their designs would look like. Which one do you prefer the most? The revenge-fuelled warrior, the unhinged alchemist, or the ambitious assassin? Let me know, and thanks for reading!

[000marie198]

Hiccup is the Mom friend. send post.

[gracieelinn]

Hey! I'm issuing a challenge for my YouTube channel! If anyone wants to draw these characters as the corresponding meme, shoot me a line! Make sure to tag me in a post featuring your artwork, and I will include it in an upcoming video with credit given to your blog!

This is first come, first serve, so let me know as soon as you can!

Thanks for the help! I can't wait to see how it turns out! 🫶🏻

[reallyprofoundkryptonite]

I’ve seen it said on here that we can hear Krogan’s head hitting the wood floor of the deck in the last scene I’m in- thereby stating that he’s dead. And I am here to disprove this, with a little research I have done about this.

For my first point, I’m going to state that the thump we heard- obviously what I’m going to talk about- was merely background noise. Not someone being executed. The reason being, according to the general area surrounding this location- it’s a public place. And there is no actual equipment to preform a beheading around this area, as it seems to just be a dock. Why would someone keep equipment to execute someone on a dock, first of all, where it has the potential to be messed with, or it has the potential to simply be stolen or whatnot.

And as this is a public place, with wooden floors, mind you, wood is absorbent to all liquids. If you are consistently executing people in a public place- even with proper cleaning up afterwards- severing someone’s head severs their jugular, blood is going to be spraying absolutely everywhere. You are going to be missing places where blood has pooled, and as such, that blood is going to sink into the wooden floors, and start to rot. Which is going to stink. Like death.

Most people do not have the guts to handle going near a place that constantly stinks like death, so therefore, public executions of the time were done elsewhere, however I doubt that Drago would publicly execute people unless they were actual traitors.

So I hear you saying, “He was executed somewhere private.” And while that could have happened, without the watchful gaze of Drago, and as soon as he’s out of eyesight and far enough away where he can cause a commotion and get away with with his life, Krogan 100% would. He is in survival mode, and he is running on his instincts, which are telling him to be patient and wait for when the time would be correct for him to run.

And while there were still not many people, there were enough in the compound that one would not that clearly hear a head hitting the floor from that far away.

What I’m saying is: Krogan hasn’t been proven to be dead. In fact, he most likely isn’t dead.

These few things didn’t add up to me, so I’m just saying. Krogan’s death isn’t a confirmation at any point in the matter, since we did not see nor “hear” it happen. That thud (that I’ve while I have heard, and it just doesn’t line up with the sound a 10+ pound head would make hitting the ground) was most likely background noise or Maybe even Krogan fighting with his guards. Because he was doing that too. That’s probably the more likely scenario of him struggling.

[bees-fandom-hive]

if I knew how to make them I'd do a video essay on why rtte is my favorite httyd media ... I mean I could write one too (the httyd brain worms are taking over)

[thorfishcrusher]

first httyd rant of many!!! yahoo!!!

this is kinda just me nonsensically talking about the alphabet(s) used in httyd because theyre kind of inconsistent?? to put it simply

insert menacing dot dot dot here

googling "httyd alphabet" lowkey made me sob cuz there were so many different variations of the symbols they used, from somewhat official sources to definitely not official ones.

they all do share elements from the futhark runic alphabet used during, or around the time period viking were in their golden age. more or less; i honestly dont know too much about runes so i apologize in advance for anything im wrong about

runes used in that time period weren't very specific, they were designed to easily carve into the materials they were using and mostly relied on just sounding things out. like lets bring that back that sounds WAY easier than learning 20 different variations of spelling the same word

younger futhark(which was more popular during the viking age,) for example, only had 16 characters, in contrast to the 24 characters in the modern english alphabet. more often than not, translated runes are littered with spelling mistakes.

that doesn't mean the vikings weren't less intelligent than people today, spelling and writing just wasn't a necessity as it commonly is in current times.

but anyway, the alphabet systems used in the books, movies, and tv shows can be directly translated into modern english, long as you ignore all the stupid ass inconsistencies (this is directed at the films, not the books)

both the movies and tv shows have similarities to futhark runes, though the movies appear to be inspired by anglo saxon runes, and the tv shows do have similar characters used in elder futhark. neither can be 100% translated to any sort of alphabetical system used at the time, and i believe berk has developed their own writing system over the centuries.

in the movies (at least from what i know) the way words were spelt were influenced on how they were sounded out, while the tv shows were slightly more correct for the future day standards. so congratulations, you can most likely spell better than hiccup in the movies. the punctuation system isn't really clear, and in futhark variations words were primarily just separated by dots. though, according to that one episode in rtte that i totally remember completely watching where snotlout shat on his dads grammar, i imagine people in berk have a more complex grammar system.

on top of that, quite a lot of people in berk seem to have the ability to read and write, more than the average viking tribes of the time. id like to assume they put more emphasis on learning to read efficiently because of the dragon book. information regarding dragons was important, and so id imagine being able to to proficiently record said information was important, too. thus the berkians (and perhaps surrounding tribes, outcasts, etc) adapted to better suit their priorities

ummm yeah idk thats kinda it

i say as if i havent put more thought and time into this dopey ass fictional thing than i have with actual beneficiary stuff

tl, dr; did you seriously scroll all this way to see if there was a summary? youll be disappointed because i am the master yapper and i am unable to be quick with my words

but basically just me talking abt the differentiating runes used in httyd, and how they connect to real world languages at the time, wnd um er um yo MOTHER

ive literally had this account for a day and ive written a 10 paragraph essay on silly little symbols

ill probably be using rtte's alphabet cuz it seems relatively easy for my little pea brain

[revive-the-fandom]

Hey! Saw your essay about the inconsistencies. Ah ye. When contrasting the Httyd movies with the shows, I like to not take it all that seriously. "But the shows are canon!!!!!" the shows are a beautiful and meaningful AU of the movies and vice versa; I've fared wonderfully treating them like that. Keeping the good parts for inspo and tossing the rest tbh.

E.g. I'm keeping Dagur and Viggo and the Fireworms for canon. Maybe there was an outpost called Dragon's Edge once, but I like to think to myself that Hiccup merely used it as a weekend base camp / storehouse for further explorations rather than actually living there for extended periods of time. He had to make all his Httyd2 improvements on Berk somehow within those five years lol. He would have had to abandon Dragon's Edge wayyy earlier to be able to have a constant presence on his home island that would earn him the village's support and Stoick's eye regarding Chieftainship. I'm definitely keeping the volcano eruption though. Also the Buffalord, the amazing Season 4 Hiccstrid kiss, the Night Terrors and Chicken. And of course the gang becoming better friends.

...On the other hand I'm definitely treating Heather, Mala, the Wingmaidens and all the dragons I don't personally like as vivid fever dreams lol. I'm also ignoring the comics. Had Hiccup truly encountered Viggo and gone through all of that Rtte character development canonically, he wouldn't have acted as naive as he did in Httyd2... Viggo already taught him better than that.

Those are just my two cents, they are also helping me embrace such things as Homecoming etc.

If you could build your canon however you liked, what would you keep? :)

I don't know if you meant it like this but I do want to clarify that I adore the first 2 movies, GotNF, LotB, RoB, DoB, and RttE. And I like elements of Httyd 3 and Homecoming, but not them in general.

(I have no intention of reading the comics - they don't interest me).

Criticising stuff I like, and pulling it apart to see how it ticks is literally my biggest hobby, so, no problems enjoying it there.

I would honestly keep most of it, so here's a list of some of what I'd remove instead:

The inconsistencies between httyd 1 ending and RoB opening - mostly to do with the dragons' integration into Berk and the new infrastructure for the dragons.

Stoick's inconsistent and easily swayed opinion on the dragons - he would never allow them to be banished from Berk unless he was physically forced to. They saved Hiccup's life, they pretty much are Hiccup's life, and he would never dishonour Valka's memory by going against her ideals (esp since her son basically redeemed her weirdness by proving her right 15 years later).

Gothi's role - she shouldn't be the only healer on Berk, she shouldn't even be a healer. They made new characters for Mulch, Bucket, Mildew, Johann, Silent Sven, Alvin, Savage, Dagur and Heather (and most of those are males) so just kick one of those out and build a new healer for Berk (bonus points if its a relation of one of the Riders e.g. a Thorston).

Johann's villain arc - I've talked about this a lot already so I won't repeat myself but this was an atrocious direction to take.

Viggo's redemption happening off screen

Dagur's redemption happening off screen

the Hunters having exactly the same ships as Drago (who comes from outside the archipelago & is designed with a different aesthetic than the vikings)

inconsistencies with the Hunter's Lore

Ryker being forgotten - the brother of ur main villain???? hello?

Krogan being so inconsistent...

Where are the women warriors???

Defenders of the Wing Lore Inconsistencies

Mala's whole personality - during the trial episode and marriage episodes especially

nearly every woman has a love interest

Dagur x Mala (not necessarily the ship - fandom adds depth to it tbh - but just how the show itself handles it)

Throk x Ruffnut (it's fine its just boring and doesn't add anything)

Gruffnut. the man annoys me - his design is lazy, his voice is annoying, he has an intruiging opportunity to add depth to the thorstons but is never utilised

Agnut. same as above

Astrid being in love with Hiccup but only in a conventional "im a woman and I will get jealous at any opportunity" kind of way

Gustav's lack of character development

the A team should not include those characters. Bucket and Mulch are farmers WHAT are they doing here. Gothi is old as fuck and she's got important shit to be doing (like apparently being the ONLY healer on Berk - srsly what r u gonna do when she dies?). Spitelout is on the Berk Council and is one of the main leaders of their military, why would he want to be bossed around by a 19 yro. the only one who makes sense is Gustav.

why does Astrid have to build the A team at all?? shouldn't Stoick or the entire military force of Berk teach themselves to use dragons to fight off invaders????

Astrid being so inconsistent with her suspicions and cautions.

Astrid randomly deciding to be Mother to dragons like Garf and throwing away all her military training and paranoia to bring said dragons on actual military operations??? like just say you needed a conflict and picked The Woman to throw under the bus.

Heather's (and Oswald's) mild backstory inconsistency.

Heather being a femme fatale.

Posing for the camera

The Wingmaidens - they're an obvious scramble to add female characters but they fall short on believability and worldbuilding.

The Bewilderbeast beneath Beserker Island. I don't like how... fucky.. this makes the plot. We didn't need this, we could have just ended on Johann & Krogan heading towards Valka's mountain, which could explain why Hiccup was still exploring the archipelago in httyd 2. then we could have done a post-credits-esque scene with Valka decimating Johann and Krogan. boom, vibes preserved, plotholes kind of prevented.

ok theres probably a lot more but this was all i could think of. Ik it looks like a lot but most of it is just tweaking canon. the majority of RoB, DoB, and RttE are wonderful. otherwise I wouldn't give half of a shit about them.

[sarnai4]

A Quest

I hereby propose a quest for all Dagur fans. It begins with watching every episode of Rob/Dob and then RTTE. During this time, you pay an unhealthy amount of attention to every Dagur scene, probably memorizing a few too many lines along the way that you will inevitably think throughout daily life, thinking them only so that no one gives you weird looks.

Next, once all canon material is consumed, you look up his voice actor, David Faustino, and watch Married...With Children. Doing so will let you know how little Dagur would actually sound in the fanfics when he is a child. You will also have a very happy moment since the Bud Bundy character has a scene with knife early on and you'll only be able to imagine him in Viking attire and with red hair since this is clearly Dagur in real life form.

The Faustino exploration doesn't end there because phase 3 involves thinking about what Dagur would do in real life, including what music he would enjoy. After listening to David's "I Told Ya," you'll be able to hear Dagur rapping which is just as odd yet fun as it sounds.

You're getting closer to the end of your journey, so you begin reading and writing Dagur fanfics that explore his psyche and relationships. You probably also begin making some posts here on Tumblr to bring more love his way. Yes, you're overthinking just about everything you've ever seen or heard that involves him, but this can be practice for writing essays and creating debates backed with evidence.

Afterwards, you begin making fanart that is surprisingly more difficult to do than expected, but the time is worth it. Even if trying to figure out how to draw him in different stages of his life make you a little deranged too, the finished result still makes you pretty happy.

The last step...finding a Dagur in your life. Probably don't do this since I didn't specify good or bad and the latter would be very dangerous. If you can find a good one, well done. I'm both happy for and jealous of you. I'm stuck at phase 5, so please share your secrets.

[mrmllde]

My tiny-weeny humble opinion after reading too much essays about THW (that is canon) and RTTE (that is, unfortunately, considered not-canon)

[ambersky0319]

When I was browsing free steam games bc I was bored I stumbled across a chill/focus kinda thing that piqued my interest

I have 2 essays and 1 more essay on the way (my professor still hasn't posted our essay exam question 🙃) that I need to get done by Thursday

And I'm thinking of trying out that game

Not tonight tho

Tonight I'm continuing my rtte rewatch

[violet-moonstone]

Heathers: On Heather the Unhinged and Potential Modifications to Her Backstory and Character Design.

An essay about Heather in Race to the Edge. Posted in separate parts otherwise my computer would explode.

Part 1: Introduction

Part 2: Warrior Heather

Part 3: Alchemist Heather

Part 4: Rogue Heather and Conclusion

[thelastifntdragonrider]

some random Race To The Edge edits 

[heliianth]

(i'm that anon) DON'T feel bad i think it's interesting talk all you wish. i never finished that trilogy so it's the same thing as a video essay about media i've never consumed

LOL noo i didnt think u did it on purpose i just have a guilt complex or w/e but im taking this as an invitation to air my grievances outside of tags SO.

I Just Don't Understand The Decision to align the end with the books. i've never Read the books but i Do Know that they are extremely different (because i've heard abt whats up and i'm just not super interested so ive never checked em out) and HTTYD1, while awesome, is not a faithful adaptation in any sense of the word. and KEEP IN MIND. from what IVE HEARD. the relationship between humans and dragons in the books is more fraught and unfair than the one in the movies. like ive heard stuff about slavery and pets. but the movie makes it almost a Point to say that the dragon riders treat their dragons equally and every place in which the two coexist do this as well. theres a reason why Hiccup calls Toothless His Best Friend. in the books it makes sense to separate the two groups, because there was genuine harm being done no matter what happened and separation was the best solution, but in the movie-verse the relationship being fought for was mutually beneficial and also had real, tangible support behind it that was having payoffs. idk if there was like a deal with Cressida Cowell for the end of the franchise but it did not work with the context set up by the other two movies. ur telling me all these dragons who bonded irreplacably with their riders, their best friends, wouldnt say "hey, fuck you, i'm staying"? they ALL went to this secret hidden cave after facing a bad guy that doesnt even seem that intimidating after u watch RTTE? like that love wasnt strong enough to defy everything? <- U KNOW. THE POINT OF THE SERIES.

speaking of which, HTTYD is like almost obnoxiously in your face about its theme of disability. the first movie is about a someone who can't do things everyone else can (kill dragons) who befriends someone else who also can't do things everyone (other dragon) else can (fly), then they help each other and make themselves and the world better for it. Hiccup makes Toothless a mobility aid and Hiccup literally becomes an amputee at the end of the movie and its framed as a moment of connection and understanding between the two rather than a tragedy. in the second movie, the villain is literally someone looking to enslave all dragons using the big mind-controlly dragon (i have some issue with the whole "the alpha protects them all" theme of HTTYD2. i get what they were going for but i don't think it was executed super well. the rest of the material introduced is super solid despite that tho imo) he abused since birth and Toothless broke out of it because of the depth of his attachment and then proceeded to beat the big dragon's ass to protect Hiccup. the entire theme being set up here is about strength in compassion, acceptance, and togetherness. these stories about outcasts proving themselves inherently worthy of love due to their difference and connection and not in spite of it Are The Type Of Stories most marginalized communities latch onto for obvious reasons. u see it literally everywhere—thats why the queer community calls some movies "queer movies" even though there might not be any characters that are actually queer. this type of setup is actually almost like a gateway for authors to address these subjects when it might otherwise be censored because it's so fucking prevalent and recognizable.

and i dont know if the directors or w/e Knew This and i don't want to accuse anyone of anything because they were clearly very, very passionate but introducing a Girl Character (I UNDERSTAND THAT the light fury is a different species and this is why she looks so different than Toothless but imo... she still falls into the "softer pink small female design" trope because they could've chosen to Not Make light furies look like that, especially bc every female dragon and even human design has been pretty good beforehand, so what changed?) with which Toothless falls in love with Immediately and is on screen for a total of EIGHT MINUTES who causes him to leave Hiccup forever without much thought is like the One Thing u dont do when u have themes like this. the movie tries to frame Hiccup's care for Toothless as clingyness but like... ur kidding me. HUH? THIS WAS NEVER A PROBLEM. Hiccup and Toothless being inseparable was Always framed as a strength that helped themselves and the people around them. thats why i sometimes talk abt HTTYD3 "hetero-ifying" the series. it tries really hard to deliver a "mature" message about ~*: . ~ letting go what you love ~*: . ~ but this was completely unnecessary if you think about it for more than two seconds in context with the 2 other movies and EIGHT SEASONS of tv shows its placed in. there was NO REASON for the dragons to go to the hidden world. Grimmel was no more of a threat thematically than Drago or Viggo. he had badass powerful dragons on his side but his motivation was the same Narratively. what made him Win this time? it just makes the entire thing feel like a cheap grab at tears and toy figurines in order to seem more adult than the other two despite its incoherency—Hiccup says the dragons will stay away until the humans can learn enough to deserve them, but they won't learn if they're separate from each other! This Is Like ABYSMAL post-hoc justification for the decision to have the dragons leave. and then the very end of the movie has Hiccup finding Toothless again (who FORGOT HIM? thats almost offensive) anyways, because who cares, whatever. anything for the audience to cry.

i dunno. i feel like despite the amount of care n passion put into HTTYD3, it's really.... not in the same spirit of the other two. all of the movie-verse media contradicts its message and themes, and it barely addresses this in a way i think is acceptable for the level of care n passion that was put in. there must've been thought and consideration here, all of the people working on it must've loved what they were making, so that's why i dont Get why HTTYD3 is the way it is. it's existence leaves the Entire Franchise feeling really hollow—without it the franchise is a statement about the power of love and belief in a better world, it features characters struggling to help themselves and their friends live in happiness no matter what challenges they face. with it, it says that these things are childish and something to let go. that the determination to make things better for yourselves and the people you love in spite of all the horrible people telling you otherwise is immature and needs to be grown out of. thats so fucking awful, dude, and thats why i don't really get how people who love the themes of the other media in the series can like the third movie.

anyway. LMFAO. this will probably be the end of me complaining abt this movie bc i addressed basically all my issues and id feel annoying repeating stuff in other posts. love u nonnie ur very funny.

[valiantdust]

I think the best shows are our favourites because of the memories around them, not necessarily the show itself.

Dragons RTTE? Incredible show, love it; when it came out it was absolutely perfect for pre-teen me to watch something more grown up while still being fairly safe and innocent (something I could write an essay on, honestly). That was enough to make me watch it through the first time.

But the reason it’s such a favourite, and I keep coming back to it, is because of the memories surrounding it. I used to watch with my brothers, and we’d wait for the others to watch new episodes, and look forward to the next season together, and talk about our theories for what would happen next. My brothers and I are very different people, which is very obvious now we’re all teenager-y, but watching RTTE makes me remember all those times we squashed onto the sofa together to watch it.

RTTE is a great show. But the reason it sticks with me is because of that happiness I associate with it, and I don’t think I would love it as much as I do without that experience.

[haddocknumber3]

Defense of The Hidden World.

This is my first time posting here in ages but I’ve been working on an essay in defense of HTTYD 3. Some of the possible responses I’ve seen against arguments defending the movie will be answered throughout. (warning this is long, like, ridiculously long so if you don’t read this then I completely understand. I just wanted a place to formulate and explain my opinion. 

Hiccup and Toothless’ relationship proved that a genuine, unflinchingly honest and unconditional love could exist between humans and dragons. It proved to the world that co-existence was possible, but maybe not yet. However the main thing that I found to be so profound about THW was that even though they loved each other, they were both willing to explore their own identities separate from each other. Once Toothless found the Lightfury, he re-discovered what it meant to be a dragon. Not a domesticated dragon but a pure, natural dragon. He found that he had instincts that he never knew he had. For instance, he tries to do a mating dance by himself as well as the simple fact that he was so in love with the Light Fury. So when he wanted to mate with the light fury he turned to Hiccup for advice (third date scene) because not only did he not know what to do, but he had seen Hiccup getting closer with Astrid over the years and now that he finally found someone else, he wanted advice on how to handle it. That just shows the love between them. Yes, Hiccup made mistakes in the movie in terms of how he handled Toothless getting with the Lightfury. He was anxious and felt as if he needed to be there to protect him so he desperately tried to halt Grimmel and the armada’s advance without Toothless because he knew he had to do something. However he failed at this and caused Ruffnut to be captured. This causes him to feel like he can’t lead properly without Toothless. He has always doubted whether he’s worthy, but this time he genuinely feels as if he doesn’t know who he is without Toothless. This is confirmed when Astrid and Valka have that brief conversation after Hiccup storms off (after they’ve returned from Grimmel’s tower) and they say:

“He thinks he has to lead alone, well, because his father had to. He doesn’t realize the strength you have together. Do you still believe in him?” - Valka

“Of course, I wish he did. But he thinks he’s nothing without Toothless.” - Astrid

“Then help him realize the truth” - Valka

This comes to a head when Grimmel had just captured Toothless, the Lightfury, and all of Berk’s dragons and he has flown off. Hiccup and Astrid have that conversation on the cliff and while the entire conversation is so so so damn important and powerful, there is one quote that sums it up:

“You are the bravest, most stubborn, determined, knucklehead I know. Toothless didn’t give you that Hiccup. He just-” - Astrid

“-made it easier” - Hiccup

All of this works so magnificently because the film has been able to show that both Hiccup and Toothless now have different goals in life. It’s just so beautiful how the film allows both characters to explore and accept their own identities without having any grievances towards each other in the process. Even though Hiccup is anxious about Toothless leaving him, it doesn’t mean he resents him for it. He is just concerned for his best friend’s safety out in the wild.

When that final scene of them saying goodbye comes along, it’s so impactful because they both realize that while obviously they could just all stay as they are and nothing would change, that wouldn’t be the right thing to do at this point. While Hiccup (and the audience) want to see the message at the end of HTTYD 2 fulfilled where the world could be changed into a dragon-human paradise, it isn’t realistic, no matter how much we believe it could happen. 

“Doesn’t this go against the themes of the franchise?” 

In a way, yes. But also it was the only real CONCLUSION the characters could have come to. I mean, what else was there to learn about the world other than the fact that trying to create a dragon/human paradise isn’t sustainable forever. They were able to create one on Berk but that didn’t last. People will always continue to try and disrupt this way of life. Evil people like Grimmel will always be around to exploit dragon-kind for their own nefarious goals. 

“But isn’t that the point? To always fight and stand up for the dragons and not give up by sending them away to some other place?” 

Well your not wrong, but isn’t allowing them to live in a paradise where they will never be harmed by other humans ever again worth it? Isn’t it worth it to find peace without the need for war? Isn’t that what a chief is supposed to do? 

“A chief protects his own” That’s the point. It IS a sacrifice. Because even though the Berkians may consider the dragons as their own, they aren’t. They are still independent dragons. (I give an example of this later on in the form of a deleted scene) It’s a sacrifice of the idealistic views that the second movie explored. Even that movie proved that consequences would come from actively trying to change the entire world’s view. However it shouldn’t (and didn’t) dissuade the Berkians from trying to continue to live in peace with their dragons. 

Also I just want to bring up the fact that some people have drawn parallels between this movie and certain aspects of real life. I understand, but that isn’t the story that is being told. The metaphors did get pretty muddled sadly but I can assure you that isn’t the intent behind the movie. So if you have any ill will towards the movie because of that then I’m sorry that was the message that you took away from it. Just know that wasn’t the intention and wasn’t the story being told. 

Hiccup, who had now become chief, actively tried to save the dragons that were in captivity or being harmed by the hunters and warlords of the world. Instead of trying to change their minds (and Grimmel’s mind) like he tried to do with Drago in HTTYD 2, he actively tries to sabotage their activities of caging and using dragons and bringing them back to Berk so they could be safe. However, by the opening of the third movie, it is clear that Berk has become overcrowded. 

“But couldn’t they have spread out?” 

Well, a deleted scene confirms they did by referencing their “nest in the north” so it’s clear that they had spread out. But Berk was their main settlement and they couldn’t maintain dozens of other settlements full of dragons 24/7. 

Wait but couldn’t they have asked other friendly civilizations like the Berserkers or the Wingmadens to look after them and follow in Berk’s example? 

Yeah of course, but eventually they would run into the same problem as Berk did at the beginning of the third movie. If they kept bring back dragons to Berk or any other dragon friendly civilization, then eventually they would get overcrowded. It may take a while but the possibility of it happening is pretty large. 

“Nah doesn’t make sense. That wouldn’t happen because they would all just defend their islands/civilizations against their enemies like they have done for the entire TV series.”

...Once again, it’s not sustainable. That’s why the Hidden World exists. It’s a place where the dragons can live totally out of reach and where they can be safe.

“Oh but the whole idea of the Hidden World is contrived bullshit just made up to move the plot along.” 

Couldn’t Frodo and the Fellowship just use the eagles to fly all the way to Mount Doom so he could drop the ring in and call it a day? What’s the reason there? So the plot could happen? Hmmm. But in all seriousness though I don’t have anything against LOTR and in fact it’s one of my favorite series besides HTTYD. Also they couldn’t have used the eagles because on the way the Black Riders who were on the dragons would have taken them out. Also they could have been shot down- oKAY back to the Hidden World. The idea of the Hidden World is kind of contrived but at the same time it is using the lack of an established explanation of where the dragons actually came from and utilizing it. 

“But they would have just been on the surface the whole time?” 

As I said, there is a lack of an explanation. So why not? why not delve deeper into the lore of the dragons. The idea of Hiccup discovering the ancestral home of all dragons is awesome! It doesn’t conflict with anything previously established in terms of where they came from because there is no explanation.

“What about Vanaheim, the eternal resting place of all dragons from RTTE?”

Good point, but that doesn’t mean that the dragons couldn’t have lived and evolved underground and then come up to the surface and gone to Vanaheim. I mean, obviously not every dragon was in the Hidden World so it would have been easier for them to just travel there but I don’t see this as a massive issue though.

“Why does Hiccup say “The world believes the dragons are gone” in the epilogue if just Berk’s dragons left.” 

This is a really solid point so I’ll do my best with this one but at the same time, it is a really good point. I imagine that by the time the third movie comes around, Berk had become such a safe haven for dragons that you could say most of the world’s dragons resided on Berk. But this is kind of flimsy too and doesn’t exactly make sense. The way I see it, this is a valid “plot hole” but at the same time I don’t really care? I don’t know for me it was just an emotional way of putting the ending of the film into words. I don’t have a valid explanation for it but whenever I watch the film I just roll with it because I’m already wrapped up in the emotion of it all that I just don’t care, and to be honest I’m glad I don’t. That’s just me though. If you have an issue with this then I totally understand because dragons like the Buffalord or the Eruptadon can’t exactly leave their islands sooooo yea...

“The Hidden World conflicts with established lore of the whole series.”

I’m pretty sure this is referring to Grimmel killing all the Nightfuries and Stoick not telling Hiccup about it. To be honest this is the plot hole that I’ve tried to patch up but can’t find a reasonable explanation for. However, it’s one of those tiny discrepancies for me that doesn’t hurt or hinder my enjoyment or engagement with the trilogy.

“Why was the armada defeated so quickly? As Valka said, there were probably over 100 ships. How did the Dragon Riders defeat an entire fleet of ships so quickly?”

Well, most of the ships were on fire by the end of the final battle and all of the dragons had been freed by that point. Also, Astrid managed to reach the wheel of the main barge and lock it into position so it would crash into the ships beside it and take multiple of them out. So we can infer that not only are all of the dragons free, but also pretty much all of the ships have been set alight and are now in the process of burning down and sinking. 

“What about the Warlords?”

Ragnar the rock (the big guy) gets chased off and supposedly eaten by the Hobgobblers and the other two get trapped in a cage that slides down the front deck of their ship (because Astrid caused the ship to crash into the other ones) and traps them in it. So basically all 3 warlords are incapacitated or dead.

Ok back to the main point from a few paragraphs back lol: Berk was overcrowded and they needed a solution. Hiccup knew that something had to be done so when he was standing in the same quiet spot where his father told him a mystical tale of a hidden dragon world, it causes him to think about whether it was real or not. Could that be the solution? They would be able to stay with the dragons in the hidden world because they were dragon loving people (that’s Hiccup’s logic.) However, when Grimmel arrives and berates him about his view of dragons and Berk’s way of life. Hiccup stands up to him because he has defended Berk’s way of life from far worse than a mere lone dragon hunter. But after Hiccup experiences the terror and destruction that this one hunter could cause on his home, he now fully realizes that they need to leave Berk because they are not only overcrowded but now they have a ruthless hunter ready to return at any point and cause more destruction upon Berk; possibly even killing many of his people including himself and definitely Toothless. It’s a long shot but he decides that if Berk wants to live in peace with their dragons then they need to disappear into the hidden world where the warlords and their armada along with Grimmel can’t ever find them again. They will be safe forever. It will be a human/dragon paradise that will be untouched.

Another question that comes up is:

“Well why can’t they stand and fight. That should be the message. That their ideological views would not waver because some more people threaten their home with war.” 

That’s a fair judgement to be honest, however, as Hiccup learnt in the second film from his father: “Berk is what you need to worry about, a chief protects his own” - Stoick. 

In a deleted scene from the third movie, it has this exchange between Hiccup and Valka:

“I know, I know, he has to win her over but I’m telling you, once she (the Lightfury) moves in it’ll all be perfect” - Hiccup

“Eret and I returned from the scout, Berk was burned to the ground” - Valka

“At least everyone’s safe” - Hiccup

“For now” - Valka

“No one can find us here” - Hiccup

“That’s what I used to believe, Hiccup, but they’ve found our nest in the far north too. Greedy humans, will always find a way” - Valka

“I don’t believe that” - Hiccup

“I...I know it might be hard for you to accept, but the dream that you and I yearn for, you know, this untouchable dragon utopia, I fear it just doesn’t exist. I mean, maybe in the end the dragons are safer in the wild.” - Valka

“What, with crazy people like Grimmel around?” - Hiccup

“The more dragons we bring back, the bigger of a target we all become” - Valka

“But they’re safer with us. We protect them” - Hiccup

“And we’ll continue to do so, but I fear for their safety in these large numbers. Tame dragons are more vulnerable to humans. Their trust in us becomes their weakness. In the wild, they’re better adapted to protect themselves” - Valka

“A chief protects his own, that’s what Dad always said” - Hiccup

“And he was right. But as much as we love our dragons Hiccup, they are not our own. There’s a fine line between being a protector and a captor. I only ask that you think about it” - Valka

The fact that this is a deleted scene is really frustrating because it put the themes that the movie is trying to explore into proper dialogue. Valka understands that moving around with this massive amount of dragons isn’t safe for anyone. If they were to be released into the wild then they could have a better chance at surviving. Even though the dragons will still be at danger in the wild, that’s the point of the hidden world. The dragons can live there together in complete and total safety.

Once Hiccup and Astrid discover the Hidden World and find that Toothless has settled in with the Lightfury and is safe and comfortable, he then realizes that it wouldn’t be fair to try and bring him back to New Berk. He’s found a home away from the troubles of the world. He doesn’t have to be afraid anymore. He can have a family in the peace and safety of the Hidden World as well as being surrounded by his own kind. On top of this realization, Hiccup and Astrid get attacked by a wild dragon and have to try and flee. When Toothless sees this he flies to protect his friend and take them back to New Berk where THEY will be safe, not him. As a result of this, Hiccup not only comes to the conclusion that humans aren’t meant for the Hidden World, but he finally understands what Valka was trying to tell him earlier (in that deleted scene.) The dragons WOULD be safer there. I mean, sure. They could stay up there at New Berk and they could continue to live life as they always have. But then what? What happens when another Grimmel comes around and manages to inflict worse upon Berk’s population. When will Hiccup be able to solve the entire world. The answer is, he can’t. But he can allow for the dragons to live in the Hidden World. He can give them a life where they can never be harmed again. Isn’t this better?

A statement that may come from this is that:

“Oh but that means Grimmel won. The villain literally won. What the fuck, this is so disgusting and disappointing. How can anyone like this?”

Those people are free the feel that way. However, he didn’t win. Not entirely. Yes, he completely opposed co-existence to the point where he would gladly kill any dragon to prove that point. He wants the world to continue killing dragons because that is a fundamental aspect of who he is. It proves to him that he is right. He is the self-proclaimed Nightfury Killer. But this still doesn’t mean that he wins in the end. Yes, dragons and humans do have to separate. But Grimmel’s ultimate goal was to kill all of the dragons. Wipe them off the face of the earth. From a certain perspective, he achieves this because dragons do have to live in the Hidden World away from humans, but that doesn’t mean he won. They are all still alive aren’t they? He failed in his mission to kill them. He failed in killing Toothless. He failed at his one purpose in life. So no, he didn’t win in the end. There is a difference between a villain totally and completely winning against the heroes like Thanos did at the end of Infinity War, and this, where Grimmel not only died as a result of his flawed and evil ideals but did not get to carry out the goal that made him who he is. The dragons leaving was a choice made by Hiccup. It was a sacrifice made out of love. If Grimmel was to win, then he would have had to kill Toothless and either see all the dragons locked away in cages for the rest of their lives or for them to be killed too. I could go on and on about this point in particular but I’ll stop here.

Once the final battle begins, Hiccup isn’t fighting to free the dragons so they can continue to live on in a peaceful dragon utopia like they did in HTTYD 2, he is fighting for their survival. So by the end of the battle when Grimmel is holding onto Hiccup, who is holding onto the Lightfury, he knows that the only option to save Toothless from falling to his doom is to take the harness off the Lightfury, releasing her from the power of the Death gripper venom and let go, causing Hiccup along with Grimmel, to fall to their deaths. This is the ultimate act of love. This is what the whole trilogy has been building to because for years Hiccup has remained adamant that Toothless and him belonged together. Hiccup would always be there to protect Toothless and Toothless would always be there to protect Hiccup. But after all this time of Hiccup learning that Toothless will be safe with the Lightfury in the Hidden World, he has the courage to let go and sacrifice himself for his best friend. 

After the Lightfury has saved him and all of Berk reunite with their dragons. Hiccup and Toothless both realize that after all this time of the two co-depending on each other, it’s time for them to fulfil their own destinies of being the leader of their respective tribes. 

“I was so busy fighting for a world that I wanted, I didn’t think about what you needed.” - Hiccup.

This quote clearly demonstrates Hiccup’s deeper understanding of the implications that come with his evolving emotional maturity. For him to fully grow up and become to true leader of Berk, he needs to learn to let go of his best friend. He needs to grow up. Some may call this contrived and/or unnecessary however I don’t see it that way in the slightest. The Hidden World is, as Hiccup puts it earlier in the film “a secret land at the edge of the world where dragons lived totally out of reach.” So when the dragons have the option of living in a place where they are totally safe from the outside world, then why wouldn’t they take that. (I’m honestly repeating myself at this point but I don’t care.) For Hiccup to fully be able to step into the role as the wise and selfless chief that he was always destined to become, he needed to learn the valuable lesson of letting go. If he didn’t, then he would never be able to see things from a new, better and wiser perspective. He would never be able to grow as an individual, thus possibly impacting how he rules Berk and how he deals with situations that come with being chief. He has always relied on Toothless for his strength as a person, friend, and leader, but by the end of the Hidden World, he realizes that his true strength lies within himself and Astrid. Here’s a conversation from HTTYD 2 to support this:

(Between Astrid and Hiccup towards the beginning)

“I’m not like you Astrid, you know exactly who you are, you always have but...I’m still looking. I know that I’m not my father, and I never met my mother so...what does that make me?” - Hiccup

“What your searching for, isn’t out there Hiccup. It’s in here.*points to his chest* Maybe you just don’t see it yet” - Astrid

By allowing themselves to fulfil their own personal destinies of discovering their own identities along with finding their own loved ones, they are able to say goodbye to each other and live ‘together from afar.’ The dragons will be safe, and Berk will be safe. But, even though the world believes the dragons are gone, the Berkians know otherwise. And they’ll guard the secret until the time comes when dragons can return in peace...

Also the track titled ‘Once there were Dragons’ is a fucking astonishing piece of music that every human on the being on the planet needs to listen to. Anyway thank you so much for reading this if you did. I’ve been struggling with how to present my thoughts and feelings towards this epic conclusion but I’ve been a little afraid to. I tried to on reddit but when people offered extensive constructive criticism towards the points I made, I didn’t exactly take it too well. Maybe that’s because I was getting over a hangover when I read most of it but that doesn't matter because I still didn’t handle it well. But I’ve learnt from that and chosen to take that criticism on board and now that I’ve been able to formulate my opinion the best I can, I’ve used those points they made and tried to analyze them too instead of just ignoring and flat out hand-waiving them. Anyway, if you disagree with anything I’ve said here then that’s totally cool and I’d be happy to listen to your opinions. Still thanks for reading. 

[harley-style]

@hiccups-peg-leg, this is for you (your fuckin username man, its glorious)

HI AND WELCOME TO 100 + 1 REASONS I'M BEGINNING NOT TO LIKE HTTYD:THW

Disclaimer: It might not actually reach 50 reasons because I have a healthy amount of concern for my fingers

​It makes sense as the final part of a trilogy, for them to separate, but the whole set up of how the separation goes was...blargh.

​Hiccup was not acting like himself.

​Neither was Toothless, actually.

​Astrid was weaker in supporting Hiccup. I mean, don't get me wrong, she was still as badass as always, but never have I been more uncomfortable with her way of "supporting" Hiccup throughout this entire movie.

​"You gave him his freedom, what did you expect?" BITCH WHAT

​THIS IS NOT SOME CALL OF THE WILD BULLSHIT WHAT THE FUCK

​part of the reason Toothless STAYED even when Hiccup presented him with an automated tail was because he preferred BERK. you know, a civilised, NOT WILD settlement even if Toothless himself was a wild dragon prior

​in fact NONE of the dragons were being forced to stay there. Which means they CHOSE to stay with humans.

​Why was there no internal conflict between Berk? Why are they all just following Hiccup after some discussion about "Berk is not a place, its the people and our dragons!"??? Just???? They didn't feel like a village at all, is what I'm saying.

​For the record, I think Valka and Cloudjumper would have been harder to separate because these two were together for like twenty years why wouldn't they stick together???

​Toothless should not have been the King of the Hidden world. there are several reasons.

​1 - he was already a bad fucking leader when it came to priorities. he chose his MATE over his FLOCK. what the absolute fuck. 2- in coming to the hidden world, he promptly forgot about the BERKIAN FLOCK THAT HE HAD RESPONSIBILITIES TO. 3- it just doesnt make sense for all dragons to have bowed to him accepting him as their king. Night Furies are deadly, but they are not of the Dragon king breed. Toothless only managed that title because he FOUGHT a fucking dragon of that SPECIFIC breed. 4- he's horny as fuck. I'm sorry, it had to be said. He and the Light Fury have met for, what, a week at most? And already he's in love? Give me a fucking break. but anyways, my point is, if he dropped EVERYTHING HE KNEW AND LOVED for a person he BARELY GOT TO KNOW, then he should not have been made leader in the first place. 5- this is more personal, but fuck the fucking fact that he left hiccup for this unknown stranger. its like his human didnt even MATTER to him at all. which brings me to my next point.

​why the ever loving FUCK did the team EVER imply that hiccup and toothless were SOULMATES if all they were gonna do is separate them and have toothless forget hiccup entirely.

​are the dragons intelligent, sentient creatures

​or are they just wild animals capable of replicating human behavior without understanding the deeper implications of it

​because if the latter was true, then what the FUCK was the first two movies for?

​the hidden world cannot exist in a geological scale. it cannot sustain itself either. if toothless did somehow recall EVERY dragon, then the ecosystem of the hidden world is suddenly shot to fucking hell.

​the movie basically spat to our faces that romantic love is stronger than the power of friendship. and family.

​im pretty sure GOTNF was canon, and THW just spits all over its message and story.

​what happened to my badass dragon riders, dreamworks?

​okay ill be honest A LOT of my issues with this movie are centered around toothless and hiccup

​berk did not need to be separated from its dragons. in fact, dragons leaving berk, realistically speaking, would actually be detrimental to berk.

​for one thing, theyd be totally cut off from the rest of the world -- they suddenly relocated without any warning, to a place where no one had actually explored thus far. traders would not have known where to find them and, if they were in the merchant thinking mode, would cut their losses and find some other village to trade to. so new berk isnt gonna get any support for a long while.

​berk chose an island than can only be safely accessed via dragons. do you see where im going with this?

​by choosing to LET DRAGONS GO, hiccup and toothless have now condemned Berk into a generation of hardship, one that will make its people struggle with getting supplies, rebuild their homes, and basically a lot of their basic survival needs.

​and MIGHT I ADD, hiccup has REVOLUTIONIZED the viking way of life by INCORPORATING dragons into it. what happens when that system suddenly loses a big chunk of what made that system work?

​may i also add that hiccup has also REVOLUTIONIZED the term BIG DUMBASS when referring to decisions that were made.

​im also salty about how quickly toothless forgot about hiccup when entering the hidden world. like, holy fuck, i cannot even begin to explain how dreadful i felt when toothless was just "oh fuck yeah" in that glowing neon underground while poor hiccup was like "do you think he's okay?"

​if it were me, toothless would at least be having a moment to himself, looking at his tail, and you can clearly see in his eyes, "what about my human? what about berk?" before getting distracted. I would have accepted at LEAST that.

​nope. we get a toothless reluctantly going back to hiccup and new berk, resentful and somber as he longs for, what, a home?

​goddamn it i hate the hidden world in the movie the hidden world. i like the movie, i really really do, but that fucking plot device grates my fucking brain.

​RTTE handled a dragon haven a lot better.

​Vanaheim was a perfect place for wild dragons to settle but dreamworks fucking abolished that idea

​i KNOW vanaheim is like a resting place for sick dragons but like

​if hiccup was half as smart as he was the first two movies thw wouldnt have been a thing in the first place.

​its really, really hard for me to defend a movie i liked the first time i watched it when the only things i can see from it are toothless not caring enough about hiccup and hiccup making the niggest mistake of his life.

​this movie honestly felt like emotional manipulation. watching it i always remembered the other two movies, which should NOT have happened. when i watched the second movie (and may i add i barely remembered a thing about the first movie at the time) i was so MOVED to the point of TEARS. i had no context and i was moved to tears anyway. THW constantly pulled at my nostalgia strings and indirectly and directly called back to the first two movies and that just....what???

and that's it.

i mean if youd like to add more feel free to, probably missed some there

and there are a couple of ao3 essays that depict the same reasons i have. just put the tag "the hidden world" in your filters uwu

one last thing: despite the reasons i mentioned above i did enjoy watching thw, im just sayin it took me a long time and a lot of reading to figure out that, no, thw wasnt as great as the hype made it seem.

this isnt meant as an attack to people who like THW. i understand that this movie is special to you and I have no right to take enjoyment from you. im just laying out the reasons of why I personally don't agree with what happened in THW.