#respect katherine howard

[toasty-owl-arts]

the hyperfixations are COLLIDING

[aishabellasbigblogofeverything]

(also if I see any "she should play Aragon/Cleves/Parr" comments in the notes I'm eating your shoes.)

Okay if there's ever a Six movie then Halle Bailey should TOTES play Katherine Howard, okay, I called it!

I mean look at her can't you just see it?

She's perfect!

(also if I see any "she should play Aragon/Cleves/Parr" comments in the notes I'm eating your shoes.)

[shark-making-soup]

yj98 performing SIX:

Cissie - Catherine of Aragon. Something something not wanting this situation. She was a hero not really too willingly and trying to do everything right but eventually leaving, (though Aragon was involuntary and cissie’s leaving voluntary)

Bart - Anne Boleyn. Just for good vibes. He would love the song. Maybe also having a lot of his motivation being “looks fun” also ending up being punished for being impulsive and having to learn to be a lil more responsible.

Tim - Jane Seymour. Something something the “good” robin. pressure put upon (giving a son vs bat expectations) that he achieved. He had to work very hard for Batman to care and robin, but he persisted even when told no.

Cassie - Anna of Cleves. Having expectations of what to look like as a hero/queen and defying them, becoming a leader and role model. She is in charge and wants people to respect that.

Kon - Katherine Howard. I’ven’t read his backstory but i have heard about him having a much older gf and just his time in hawaii not being the most developmentally healthy (did he have literally any parental figure???)… yeah. also having no good adult figures until Ma and Pa Kent. her song would very much give him a 3am breakdown.

Greta - Catherine Parr. She survived. She escaped the gov. She rescued her friends from that gov facility. She got a normal life after (i think). She didn’t need to be a hero, she liked it, but she became someone outside of it, she was a hero at first just because she could help, but she had her choice. She didn’t give up herself, and she survived. Her story exists outside of the hero community.

“Henry” is heroing in general and might be something/one diff for each.

[izabelferreiramelo]

Mary Tudor and Katherine Howard could have actually been friends? 🏵️

All of us Tudor fans have been persuaded at some point to believe that Mary and Katherine were enemies and couldn't stand each other. If we were to read separate biographies of katherine and Mary, we would indeed get that impression, especially when it comes to the narratives of certain authors who didn't see much need to delve into the relationship between the two.

🧐 What do we know about Mary and Katherine's relationship besides common belief? That Katherine wanted to dismiss two of Mary's ladies because Katherine was a spoiled and childish young lady, or that Mary found Katherine vain because she liked to dress francy clothes and dance. But what if I told you that Katherine acted as a merciful queen in many instances, such as when she sent her tailor to Margaret Pole in the Tower of London or when she helped free Thomas Wyatt, the poet, from the Tower? And what about Mary liking fancy clothes and dance too? But well, we will not try to understand Katherine's qualities hidden in the shadow of the stereotype this time. In order not to develop a giant text, I will just make a timeline of the relationship between the two from 1540 to 1542.

🏵️1540 — DECEMBER — Katherine try to dismiss two of Mary's ladies because Mary was showing her little respect as she had shown Jane Seymour and Anne of Cleves. (In my opinion, this only happened because Mary was witnessing what happened to her mother repeat itself. *Let's not forget that Katherine was a lady-in-waiting to Anne of Cleves, as Anne Boleyn was to Katherine of Aragon*).

🏵️ 1541 — JANUARY — (New Year) Mary tries to reconcile with Katherine and sends gifts, trying to maintain a good relationship with her father and stepmother.

🏵️ 1541 — 2 of FEBRUARY — Henry banishes one of Mary's ladies. Chapuys was the one who reported this, and unlike the first occasion when Katherine tried to dismiss two of Mary's ladies, on this occasion Chapuys mentions only the king. I believe that if it had been an appeal from Katherine to the king, Chapuys would have mentioned it, as before.

(It would not be the first time Henry had expelled ladies-in-waiting. He did the same to Katherine of Aragon when the two argued over the attention the king was giving to Henry Fitzroy. That time he expelled three of Katherine's ladies-in-waiting).

🏵️ 1541— 22 of FEBRUARY — Mary and Katherine baptise Jane Seymour daughter of Edward Seymour (Edward VI uncle). Why did they both were godparent of the same child if they were not in good terms? This makes me believe that Mary's problem 20 days before this was indeed with the king.

🏵️ 1541 — Spring — Katherine is said to have sent Margaret Pole clothes according to Alison Weir, she didn't mention an exact month, but Conor Byrne points to 'spring' (so, March, April or early May). I know Katherine had a good heart and Margaret's situation touched her, but I think she may have had some consideration for Mary when she did this.

🏵️ 1541 — MAY — Margaret Pole is executed, the same time Katherine aproves Mary staying at court. (This is why I believe she had some regard for Mary's pain of losing her second mother.)

🏵️ 1541 — In the summer Katherine, Mary and Henry traveled together to visit Prince Edward, and Katherine gave Mary a gold pomander containing a clock while they were on a progress at Pontefract Castle. (Again, why would she if they were not in good terms?)

🏵️ 1542 — FEBRUARY — Katherine is executed. "Following Katherine Howard’s execution, Mary enjoyed far greater favour and presided over court feasts as if Queen. As a New Year’s gift Henry presented her ‘with rings, silver plate, and other jewels’ among which were ‘two rubies of inestimable value’. However, during these months, the princess suffered repeatedly from chronic ill-health, linked to anxiety, depression and irregular menstruation, although the symptoms varied widely from one episode to the next. In March and April, she had a ‘strange fever’ that brought on heart palpitations and so afflicted her that at times ‘she remained as though dead’."

-

We know that Katherine died in February, but by December Culpeper had been executed, and the queen's jewels had certainly returned to the king who had given them to Mary. If Mary had developed any feelings of friendship with Katherine, it was very cruel of him to make her go through this, and I am not surprised that Mary fell strangely ill afterwards. 😪💔

-

Art by: https://www.instagram.com/heqijin_illustration?igsh=MTRjZTN4bzJqcXJseA==

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Sources:

https://tudortreasures.net/mary-catherine-howard/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewels_of_Mary_I_of_England

Katherine Howard: A New History by Conor Byrne.

Mary Tudor: England' First Queen by Anna Whitelock.

Baatard Prince: Henry VIII'S lost son by Beverley A. Murphy.

[leoleolovesdc]

Okay, hear me out:

A teen girl who has had multiple experiences with sa and abuse coming from older men who she trusted. She lashes out and acts impulsively as this is the only way she knows how to cope with her feelings and because of it is deemed stubborn, a brat and immature by people. She spends her whole life trying to cope with everything that went wrong, blaming herself and feeling worthless as no one seems to respect her enough to try and hear her side of the story. Her life is tragically cut short as she is murdered at a young age and even after death everyone who met or learned about her life insists that she is the villain of this situation and had it coming since the beginning despite only being a child.

This “character description” leads me to a very simple conclusion:

Stephanie Brown🤝Katherine Howard

[immabebaby]

Back on my bs 😎 and by bs I mean making my brother regret getting me into transformers

Anywayyy what I'm here for is this (most of my knowledge comes from tfp and ff (I also have only heard like 3 songs from Six))

Ex wives (Six) but Megatron is King Henry

The order (from what I've gathered)

Catherine of Aragon - Shockwave

Anne Boleyn - Starscream

Jane Seymour - Soundwave

Anne of Cleves - Ratchet

Katherine Howard - Knockout

Catherine Parr - Optimus Prime

I swear they make sense, hear me out.

Soundwave makes perfect sense, "only one he truly loved" Meg has deep respect for Soundwave and Lazerbeak can be the baby cuz Meg likes Beaky

Okay so Ratchet's there cuz it's funny also he fucked off when it came to interacting w Megatron so it's funny

Optimus is there for Mega like the whole time so it also makes perfect sense that he'd see him "to the end of his life" (I originally had him first, but then moved him to last)

Starscream is mostly there bc he waltzed in to steal the crown and, well, he didn't exactly get it lol

I thought putting knockout there was funny

[edwardseymour]

certain six fans 🤝 certain tudor fans

ships kary for some weird unknown reason (the inexplicably juicy concept of your lover becoming ur step mother; or the guilt, and shame, and ANGER for developing feelings for your FATHER'S WIFE who's YOUNGER than you, and to top it all off, she's cousin to the woman who ruined your life. She is married, you are not. She is queen, you are not. She is everything, your just lady mary

there’s something profoundly ironic and deeply sad, to me, about mary being punished bc katherine howard stood on business and demanded her stepdaughter recognise her with due deference as respect… just as anne boleyn had done… just as her mother had done… just as mary had been punished by her father for trying to do…

anyway, i simply think wlw sex would simultaneously fix mary and also make her exponentially worse and i want to see what will happen.

[aelfgyvaa]

re: your post about anne boleyn merch, would be interested to hear your thoughts on the musical "six"!!

I think we were always gonna end up here eventually. To briefly summarise? I have pretty much nothing but distaste for Six.

Before I get into it, let me just say - I don't care if you like Six. If it makes you happy, that's great, I respect that. I'm not trying to tell anyone that they can't or shouldn't enjoy it, just that my personal opinion of it is... negative, to say the least.

TW - In the discussion below, I do mention child loss and child sexual abuse

────────────

The very first song in Six promises that the show is going to explore a different side of the infamous six wives of Henry VIII, rejecting the popular narrative ('Get ready for the truth that we'll be revealing'). However, it only seems to succeed in retreading the same ground we've been going over for literal centuries. I'm sure a casual viewer of Six could certainly learn something new about these women from the show - if, that is, they'd never really known about them in the first place.

To start, I'll go over some of the gripes I have with each individual representation of the wives.

Catherine of Aragon

First off - did no one pause to think that a jokey throwaway line like this in an upbeat pop track might have been distasteful when discussing a woman who lost five children?? No? Ok. Catherine had four miscarriages or stillbirths, and lost her son Henry when he was little more than a month old (and from what I've seen, none of this is mentioned at any point).

'Kiddy-less' is just obnoxious.

Anne Boleyn

In her character description at the beginning of the script, Anne is described as 'a bubbly, fun-loving gal who only wanted to snog a sexy guy'. At another point, she is referred to as 'The temptress'. Right. So we're just sticking to the exact same reductive portrayal of Anne that's been circulating forever? Cool, cool, very revisionist.

The only person who confessed to an affair with Anne Boleyn was Mark Smeaton, who did so under torture, and his story didn't even align with known facts at the time. Portraying Anne as a flirt is not 'revealing' the 'truth' - it's quite literally repeating the narrative that saw her executed.

The script and the song lyrics are littered with jokey references to 'losing your head' and I just??? Apparently, the beheading of a real person was the opportune moment to slide in a blowjob joke. Sorry, didn't realise that her execution was funny - my bad I guess.

Jane Seymour

Six seems to want to give us the impression that Henry VIII's affection for Jane Seymour, the only one of his wives to give birth to a surviving son, was reciprocated by her. Which is... certainly presumptive.

Of course, I can't definitely say anything about her personal feelings, but the fact that Henry married her eleven days after Anne's execution, and that she was reportedly sympathetic to Catherine of Aragon and Mary Tudor, paints an interesting picture of their relationship.

Other than that, there's not much to say about Jane - but that in itself isn't great. She comes off as flat, and little more than a doting housewife-esque stereotype. I understand that she was only queen for a year, but... go girl give us nothing?

Anne of Cleves

Once again... this is just so lazy. Considering one of the two writers/composers for Six studied revisionist history at Cambridge, the revisionist narrative we were promised at the beginning remains entirely absent.

The first time Henry VIII met Anne, he burst in unannounced, in disguise, and kissed her without consent. I don't know about anyone else - but if I had just arrived in a new country, was not fluent in the language, and had never seen the man I was to marry before - I'd be freaking the fuck out if that happened. Henry seems to be one of the first people to ever call Anne 'ugly', which only happened after this incident wherein she was clearly unimpressed by him. Very convenient.

Katherine Howard

Sigh...

Yeah, I hate this. I hate it so much.

Accounts are definitely murky, but I think it's safe to say that Katherine Howard had a childhood marred by sexual abuse. Whilst she was a ward of the Duchess of Norfolk, Katherine had a 'relationship' with her music teacher Henry Mannox. We don't know exactly how old Mannox was (Six puts him at 23, but yeah. We don't know), but given that their 'relationship' reportedly took place around 1536-ish, Katherine would've been about thirteen. There's an acknowledgement of this age gap in Six, but it's pretty gross how flippant it is.

Her alleged 'relationship' with the Duchess' secretary Francis Dereham is also referenced with similar thoughtlessness.

Given that Katherine was most likely still a teenager when she married Henry VIII - and when adultery accusations resulted in her execution - the pretty blatantly sexual tone with which she is presented is incredibly uncomfortable and, frankly, super inappropriate.

Katherine Parr

First off - fucking pardon? Speaks for itself, really.

The first half of Katherine's song focuses on her relationship with Thomas Seymour as opposed to Henry VIII. Which, y'know, it's nice to move away from Henry, although Thomas Seymour is very much not off the fucking hook (child groomer👍).

Katherine's song is definitely the least blatantly offensive and/or boringly repetitive of the bunch, and I do appreciate the references to her writing (although it is pretty much thrown in without any context). To be honest, she's pretty much got the only characterisation that I'm not actively opposed to.

────────────

Six claims to be a feminist, revisionist retelling, and yet in its first scene immediately pits the six women against each other by deciding to compete for who is the 'best wife' by... comparing trauma? Even when Katherine Parr's character questions this, she's mocked by the other characters.

There's an acknowledgement towards the end of the play that comparing the women and defining them by their relationships with King Henry is reductive - but frankly, by this point in the play, the damage has already been done. No half-assed 'Hey maybe we shouldn't compare ourselves after all!' is going to erase literally everything else that happened in the show prior to this. I don't care that you've decided to pull a complete 180 right at the very end, you still populated the rest of the show with disrespectful jokes that made light of the traumatic experiences of VERY REAL PEOPLE.

Six fundamentally fails at its introductory promise of revealing any sort of 'as yet untold' history surrounding these women. Worse, it arguably dehumanises them, reducing them to a group of dancing, singing, jokey fictional characters who reflect on the misery of their real-life counterparts with a disconcerting sense of humour. Instead of fulfilling its feminist framing, it falls for the tired, repetitive method of thought that presents these women as two-dimensional placeholders.

I read Six's entire script for this post, and honestly, I hope I never have to look at it again.

[dxntloseurhead]

pink and green bracket - part five

we’ve made it to the final part of the main bracket! the last sixteen duos will face off in this part before the big finale, where the winners of all five parts will be pit against each other to determine the ultimate pink and green duo!

remember the number one rule: please be respectful to me as the poll runner, as well as fellow voters.

part five is finished! keep an eye out for the finale on wednesday! the matchups for the fifth and final part are as follows:

ROUND ONE

left side:

cure star and cure milky (pretty cure) vs. cure miracle and cure felice (pretty cure)

yuyuko saigouji and youmu konpaku (touhou) vs. makina nakajima and reina prowler (macross)

miss piggy and kermit the frog (the muppets) vs. brittany and eleanor miller (alvin and the chipmunks)

glinda and elphaba (wicked) vs. katherine howard and anne boleyn (six the musical)

right side:

hoops and yoyo (hallmark cards) vs. shelly and eustace (moriah elizabeth)

nora valkyrie and lie ren (rwby) vs. saiki kusuo and aiura mikoto (the disastrous life of saiki k.)

muku sakisaka and yuki rurikawa (a3!) vs. ramuda amemura and dice arisugawa (hypnosis mic)

wanda fairywinkle and cosmo cosma (the fairly oddparents) vs. patrick star and sheldon j. plankton (spongebob squarepants)

ROUND TWO

left side:

cure star and cure milky (pretty cure) vs. yuyuko saigyouji and youmu konpaku (touhou)

miss piggy and kermit the frog (the muppets) vs. glinda and elphaba (wicked)

right side:

hoops and yoyo (hallmark cards) vs. saiki kusuo and aiura mikoto (the disastrous life of saiki k.)

muku sakisaka and yuki rurikawa (a3!) vs. wanda fairywinkle and cosmo cosma (the fairly oddparents)

ROUND THREE

left side:

yuyuko saigyouji and youmu konpaku (touhou) vs. miss piggy and kermit the frog (the muppets)

right side:

saiki kusuo and aiura mikoto (the disastrous life of saiki k.) vs. muku sakisaka and yuki rurikawa (a3!)

ROUND FOUR

yuyuko saigyouji and youmu konpaku (touhou) vs. muku sakisaka and yuki rurikawa (a3!)

[fideidefenswhore]

Showtime's the Tudors (my good, I'd change the clothes, a single French/Gable hood is worth more than a thousand f*cking tiaras!)

I loved the tiaras...but my taste is gaudy.

jane seymour should've been introduced in s1 for continuity

alison weir being the unofficial source material of the script...showed. mainly in the characterization of anne boleyn (and her arc with wyatt). which was elevated by natalie dormer's performance, but the writing itself was not great, an improvement by s2, but still not as nuanced as it could have been.

the scene with katherine howard and becket's ring...what if we all killed ourselves

elizabeth darrell killing herself??? hirst, why do you hate women....

ELIZABETH (HOWARD) BOLEYN INTRODUCTION IN S1 AND SHE'S THERE FOR ALL 20 EPISODES OF THE FIRST TWO SEASONS. THIS WOULD HAVE PREEMPTIVELY CURED MY DEPRESSION.

i should probably do one about hviii as well, huh, this is a hviii blog...controversially i liked much of it, is the thing...given they were going for the man-candy angle, it is retroactively funny that they didn't choose henry cavill for hviii instead, who fit (the young) hviii's physicality better, especially respective to height...i do understand why they cast jrm tho, he fit the role better, he could convey intensity in this unmatched way...and he was better at conveying the subtle moments, too....it's that those subtle moments were too few and far between, i suppose, that would be my main criticism.

[scout-nox]

Batfam Six the musical au.

This crossover has plagued me for years and I came across this post the other day and finally decided to actually draw the art I’ve been thinking about

I started with Dick Grayson as he was what started this au. I’ve always pictured him in the role of Katherine Howard even though she’s fifth in the line up I’ve always though of Dick when listening to ‘All You Wanna Do’ with the context of his past “relationships” with Liu Mirage and Catalina. (with the exception of the song ‘Ex-Wives’ when I can’t help to picture him as Catherine of Aragorn especially with the idea of Bruce firing him from Robin and giving Jason the mantle not long after).

I think of Bruce in this au as Henry, but instead of the relationship being that of a married couple it is instead the relationship as Batman and sidekick.

I drew a lot of inspiration from Katherines usual costume

As well as her blue alternate costume mostly because I liked the shoulders and the collar (I wanted to pay a little respect to the discowing).

[glassprism]

What do you think of Six?

I love Six! Six is to me what Hamilton is to others, I suppose (and I do feel like Six is riding on the shoulders of Hamilton in that it takes a historical person, or people in this case, and tells their story in a modern style - pop songs - and with modern casting). I enjoy Hamilton a lot and I highly respect what it's done in terms of casting diversely, buuutttt... I'll admit, I don't care much about American history. (I'm an American, I can say that.)

But Six? That musical feeds directly into my Tudor obsession. I enjoy most if not all of the songs, though my favorite is hands down 'All You Wanna Do', the song of one of my favorite of Henry VIII's queens, Katherine Howard, not the mention the most harrowing in the entire musical. The visuals took a bit to get used to (I was expecting, you know, actual Tudor gowns, and instead I got this), but they definitely grew on me and I love how colorful it is. I like that each queen gets a song, and while the idea of a story of women reclaiming their own story and going from fighting one another to working together has been done a lot, it was still something I appreciated.

And sure, they could have dug deeper into some things - at one point we hear the line, "All that we know is that we used to be six wives," addressing how each of those women are known to us mainly because of their connection to Henry VIII, but there's definitely a really good argument to be made that the fact that we know that much about them, is because the queens were the pinnacle of the class hierarchy in their day - think of all the lower classes below them who don't have even that. But that's ultimately not what the musical is trying to do; it's not trying to address every little inequity. It sets out to have a fun time about some English queens and they did that.

I do have one other major complaint though, and that's really about their portrayal of Anne Boleyn, who they portray as kind of a ditzy party girl. There are apparently theories that she's just playing that side of her up because it's what expected of her, or to hide her trauma, or what have you. But historically, and whether you love her or hate her, Anne Boleyn was one of the most complicated and interesting of Henry VIII's queens, highly intelligent, legitimately religious and interested in reform, magnetic and charming and hot-tempered, attracting all sorts of wildly divergent interpretations, and I really wish the musical had leaned into any one of these more. (Like have a song about how ambitious women are demonized, how the mistress is always shamed or seen as leading the guy on, I dunno.) I think in this case, the writers were a bit pigeonholed by their song inspirations ("queenspiration"), which for Anne Boleyn was Lily Allen and Avril Lavigne, and ended up writing her song more to fit in with those singers' styles rather than the other way around.

But like I said, I enjoy the musical for what it is, a fun time with some history and "take down the patriarchy" themes thrown in. And I'll admit, knowing what I know about the sources of the time and how people have interpreted and re-interpreted these women and will likely never truly know them, in all their complexity and humanity, simply because that kind of knowledge wasn't valued at the time, the line near the end, "But we wanna say before we drop the curtain / Nothing is for sure, nothing is for certain", legitimately brings me to tears at times.

Anyway... come hear me talk about the musical sequel to Six that will be called Twelve, about the twelve women claimants to the throne after Henry VIII died!

[unwrittenemmy]

Day three hundred and sixty five of posting every six queen

Audrey Fisher as Katherine Howard

aaand that’s a wrap folks! when i started this series i didn’t think it would last a whole year, but ive decided this is a good stopping point. i know that I’ve been spamming the six the musical tag and the tags for the respective queens, and there’s a lot of stuff i wish I’d done differently. i have some plans to pick it back up in a different way (starting all the way over lolz) but it definitely won’t be a daily thing anymore lolz. anyways, thanks for liking/reblogging these for a whole year 💕

[heta-micronomics]

I've bounced the idea around since like 2020 of the micronations putting all their talents/specialties together to make a ragtag theatre troupe. Specifically, I think they'd put on an amazing amateur Six.

Catharine of Aragon: Seborga

Seborga as Catherine just makes sense to me. Aside from the easy Catholic/Vatican motifs, it also works since he was the "first" micronation of the group. He's the oldest and arguably the most rational. They have similar vibes.

Anne Boleyn: Aerica

I headcanon that he's fluent in Quebecois French, so I think he'd like to have a role that nods to it. Plus, his over-the-top personality and eccentricity remind me of Anne. He's bold and fun and creative, yet like her, he's a nervous kid looking for the right thing to do.

Jane Seymour: Hutt River/Molossia/Sealand

I really want to say Hutt River because it would work SO well if he used this as a way to say a final goodbye. He's done his best and stayed with Australia, his boss, etc, but now he's dying. He's leaving Wy behind. It also fits his general vibe, and he'd love a huge, dramatic number.

It would be a really interesting take on Molossia's relationship with America. His official notes say he's independent "for now," and he's made it clear that he loves (it at least respects) America. He wouldn't leave him even if he could. But at the same time, that's basically signing his own death certificate.

Sealand. Dear God, this works so well. Aside from the literal "heart of stone" references to both the fort and his human name, Sealand is loyal and determines to a fault. He's stayed with his bosses and friends, and despite all he says, he canonically does care about England—or, at least he doesn't hate him as fanon can suggest. He just wants to be with people, but that's the very thing that killed Jane. Also, blue motifs lmao.

Anna of Clives: Kugelmugel

My main rationale is that he's German (well, Austrian). Though it also works on a meta level, too. Design-wise, he reminds me a lot of Prussia. Having Kugel sing about just loving himself feels so sweet, both for himself and for his... brother? Cousin? Uncle?

Katherine Howard: Hutt River/Sealand

I really want to say Sealand. The song intentionally uses more "kiddy" language, and having someone physically younger would highlight that in a terrible poetic way. Plus, Sealand's tried over and over to get someone to love and care (or literally buy) for him. It's like his whole thing. The irony of seeing him finally give up as Katherine has such literary potential.

Hutt River would also be great. His personality fits very well, and again, him "giving up" can work on the micronation level as well since he was dissolved.

Catherine Parr: Wy

I can't think of anyone better. It feel like the obvious choice.

[ednyfedfychan]

“Mary’s relationship with Katherine Howard had not been overtly positive – Queen Katherine had threatened to dismiss some of her women because she did not think Mary had treated her with sufficient respect – but some of the late queen’s servants, notably those who had given evidence against her, found their way into Mary’s establishment over the course of the 1540s, not least those two gossips Margaret Morton and Maud Lovekyn.”

— Nicola Clark, The Waiting Game

[edwardseymour]

AU when Katherine Howard is sent to serve Mary but history still happens oh and the kiss sometimes if that helps

the idea of katherine becoming mary’s stepmother after serving in her household and having some kind of toxic wlw situationship is absolutely diabolical, actually. the way that would reframe their historical falling out over mary not showing katherine adequate respect into the absolute worst breakup of all time… screaming crying throwing up etc.