#repentant sauron

[princessfantaghiro]

Of course they are Sauron's! The 3 without Sauron's powers are nothing more than ordynary jewels! He shares his godly/Ainur powers in them, when he was in his repentant form: Halbrand, and touched everything in Celebrimbor's forge: mithril, Stones etc etc

And yeah. HE MADE NENYA FOR HIS QUEEN

#sorry not sorry

omg the "sauron created nenya for galadriel" discourse is so frustrating. the thing he said about making 2 was a manipulation -- that was never the "plan" by anyone for them to be a pair of rings for them.

ok lets break it down. celebrimbor is the one intending to make one crown for gilgalad. the purpose was to maintain elven magic in middle earth. this was not for galadriel or halbrand -- it is not intended to be about fighting sauron. halbrand helped with the alloy idea. sure. but he is just a human fangirl in a master's forge. he isn't celebrimbor's partner. yet.

but then we get to the moment galadriel has the scroll and sauron notices it and is going to go talk to her about the two rings idea when he noticed he was about to be found out.

when would he have has *time* to talk to celebrimbor? he didn't have time. he left lickety split when he noticed galadriel figuring it out. the most likely thing is that he made it up on the spot (he might have been toying with the idea before hand but i think its the first he told anyone) because it sounds super enticing-- we'll make two and you can have one. its the only thing that might entice galadriel, power equal to Gil Galad. power to have a kingdom.

but like, best case scenario, assume he *had* talked to celebrimbor earlier. do you honestly think celebrimbor intended for halbrand and galadriel to have the rings? he doesnt trust humans at all. the point is to give magic to the elven kingdoms. even galadriel would not have necessarily have been the obvious second choice after gil galad (before she gave up her dagger) because of her potential to be corrupted/ use it for war.

at the end of the day, celebrimbor made the three without sauron's designs. he just used his alloy idea. and he made three because of Galadriel (in trop), using materials from elrond and galadriel. and he intended none for humans.

sauron wants to control the people's of middle earth via the rings. the three being free of his influence is a flaw in his plan. he needs to get them back to fulfill his goal. yes, he desires nenya bc galadriel spurned him, but the point is *it was never his to begin with* and thus why he covets it -- not because it belonged to him or because it was his gift.

and that is why he needs to make the one ring, bc that is the only way to control *all* the rings, even those free of his influence. even though it was a huge risk to take.

(this is not take away from anyone shipping in whatever way they want -- its just whatever attraction galadriel and sauron have doesn't change who created nenya and for what)

[princessfantaghiro]

SAURON

WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE

OH, COME ON! HALLBY BOY, JUST GIVE DOBBY HIS CLOTHES BACK, OKEEEJ???!

I'M SERIOUS!!!!!

[aureentuluva70]

I can't help but think about the period between the Fall of Tol-in-Guarhoth and the end of the War of Wrath in which Sauron completely vanishes from the narrative, never mentioned until after the First Age has ended. We know almost nothing about what Sauron was doing at that time, so you can make a lot of different interpretations as to what he did for the rest of the First Age. Most people seem to assume that he went back to Angband and continued to serve Morgoth, but for me personally I don't think he ever went back to Angband at all. I can see him still serving Morgoth outside Angband, but he's far too terrified of his master's scorn and judgement to go back, especially after Lùthien and Beren stole one of the silmarils.

I think it was during this time period that he may have first started to go through his temporary repentance process as Tolkien describes it, and I find it rather fitting that in the story called Release from Bondage, even Sauron himself is in a way set free, even if that release-and that repentance-only lasts for so long.

[mimilind]

This is brilliant. I agree, the world in itself is not evil, but I think all sentient beings carry good and evil within them. In our world and Arda alike…

That is why Valinor/Aman is not Heaven even if it is where the elves end up after death. That place is not without evil.

And that is also why I love the idea of a repentant Sauron so much. (Or repentant orcs, for that matter)

On a side note, I used ideas from The New Shadow in my fic ”Cat of the Fellowship”, and also tried to figure out how elves can have a real ”happy ever after” in a truly good eternity. It became a bit deep lol, and I don’t think many of my (mostly) young readers ever got what I was coming at there… They couldn’t see the Gift of Men for the gift I consider it be, but I think elves in general would, and therefore be secretly envious of men.

I also discussed the concept of good and evil when it comes to orcs. Do they have souls? What happens to them when they die? Is killing them no worse than killing animals? (Or, rather I let my characters have these thoughts and worries lol)

Personally, I think everyone deserves a second chance, no matter what they did…

"Arda Unmarred"

Tolkien’s legendarium is full of unreliable narrators. “The Silmarillion”, for example, is based on the lore of the Elves, and “The Lord of the Rings” is based on a fictional book written by Hobbits. In these stories, Melkor, the fallen Vala who later goes by the name Morgoth, is the power-hungry being that brought evil to Middle-earth. According to the Elves, the Valar refer to the world as “Arda Marred” – a name based on the assumption that Ilúvatar’s original design, “Arda Unmarred”, has to have been free from evil.

I use the phrase “unreliable narrators”, because we don’t know for sure what Eru Ilúvatar was truly planning when he created the Music of the Ainur. Not even the Valar, who are described as being the offspring of his thought, could fully understand his vision. So, can we really say for sure that there ever was, or ever will be, an “Arda Unmarred”? Was Melkor’s initiation of the cycle of evil in Middle-earth unintentional, or was it a part of Ilúvatar’s design all along? Those are the questions that this short essay is going to explore.

The creation of the world is described in “Ainulindalë”. The story has gone through multiple changes over the years, but its foundations remain the same. Eä, the universe, is sung into existence by the Ainur. Melkor, gifted with the most power and knowledge of them all, tries to introduce his own ideas into the song, but Ilúvatar simply incorporates the discord into his Music. Melkor is incapable of creating anything of his own, since he is ultimately an offspring of Ilúvatar’s own thought. This is later stated by Ilúvatar himself.

“And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.” (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë)

The statement is repeated again when the Ainur are shown the world that their Music has created.

“Behold your Music! This is your minstrelsy; and each of you shall find contained herein, amid the design that I set before you, all those things which it may seem that he himself devised or added. And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.” (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë)

The Ainur learn much about this new world from Ilúvatar, but their god also withholds a lot of information, especially regarding his Children – the Elves and Men.

Yet some things there are that they cannot see, neither alone nor taking counsel together; for to none but himself has Ilúvatar revealed all that he has in store, and in every age there come forth things that are new and have no foretelling, for they do not proceed from the past. (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë)

For the Children of Ilúvatar were conceived by him alone; and they came with the third theme, and were not in the theme which Ilúvatar propounded at the beginning, and none of the Ainur had part in their making. (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë)

These statements prove that not even the Valar can be considered fully reliable narrators. They never saw the full design, and their knowledge of the fate of Elves and Men is ultimately limited.

Later in the chapter, we find out that there’s another layer of unreliability in this story.

For what has here been declared is come from the Valar themselves, with whom the Eldalië spoke in the land of Valinor, and by whom they were instructed; but little would the Valar ever tell of the wars before the coming of the Elves. Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. And yet their labour was not all in vain; and though nowhere and in no work was their will and purpose wholly fulfilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had at first intended, slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm. (The Silmarillion: Ainulindalë)

The phrasing of this paragraph reveals that “Ainulindalë” is not a story told by an omniscient narrator – it’s Elven lore. Melkor is depicted as the culprit behind all of Arda’s flaws, but since we now know that it’s an Elven story, we also have to take possible bias into consideration.

Even here, however, is it clearly stated that Melkor was incapable of creating anything of his own, and that the Valar didn’t know every detail of Ilúvatar’s design. It’s also worth noting that it’s the will and purpose of the Valar that were never wholly fulfilled. This is also reiterated in a similar description of the formation of Arda, told in “The Annals of Aman”.

… And the shape of Arda and the symmetry of its waters and its lands was marred in that time, so that the first designs of the Valar were never after restored. (Morgoth’s Ring: The Annals of Aman)

At this point in the story, Ilúvatar is no longer an active participant. The Valar are acting on their own, based on the vast yet still limited information that’s been given to them. The greatest fears of Elves and Men – fading and dying – are blamed on Arda being marred by Melkor. This is clearly expressed in “Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth”:

Now the Eldar learned that, according to the lore of the Edain, Men believed that their hröar were not by right nature short-lived, but had been made so by the malice of Melkor. It was not clear to the Eldar whether Men meant: by the general marring of Arda (which they themselves held to be the cause of the waning of their own hröar); or by some special malice against Men as Men that was achieved in the dark ages before the Edain and the Eldar met in Beleriand; or by both. (Morgoth’s Ring: Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth)

Valar, Elves, and Men alike believe that they live in Arda Marred, and that Melkor is the sole culprit behind the cycle of evil that plagues Middle-earth. As readers, we’re led to believe that this is true, but Tolkien does occasionally remind us that this is a story told by unreliable narrators. He himself considers Melkor a Lucifer-like figure, but he also recognizes the differences between his Catholic faith and the universe he created.  

I suppose a difference between this Myth and what may be perhaps called Christian mythology is this. In the latter the Fall of Man is subsequent to and a consequence (though not a necessary l consequence) of the 'Fall of the Angels': a rebellion of created free-will at a higher level than Man; but it is not clearly held (and in many versions is not held at all) that this affected the 'World' in its nature: evil was brought in from outside, by Satan. In this Myth the rebellion of created free-will precedes creation of the World (Eä); Eä has in it, subcreatively introduced, evil, rebellious, discordant elements of its own nature already when the ‘Let it Be’ was spoken. The Fall or corruption, therefore, of all things in it and all inhabitants of it, was a possibility if not inevitable. (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien: 212.)

So, here we are again. Evil was created before Melkor descended into Eä. This raises even more questions about Ilúvatar’s original design – the supposed “Arda Unmarred”. There was evil in Arda before Melkor entered it. Does that mean that Ilúvatar knew that the world that he was about to send his Children into was already marred? Or was it a part of his design all along?

What we do know for sure is that there was always evil in Eä. We’re presented with another perspective in “Myths Transformed”, which puts even more emphasis on Melkor being a catalyst rather than the source of that evil.

Out of the discords of the Music – sc. not directly out of either of the themes, Eru's or Melkor's, but of their dissonance with regard one to another – evil things appeared in Arda, which did not descend from any direct plan or vision of Melkor: they were not 'his children'; and therefore, since all evil hates, hated him too. (Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed)

Another important aspect of Melkor’s role in the supposed marring of Arda is the evil’s independence. As previously stated, the cycle started before his descent into Eä, and it continues after he’s been thrust into the Timeless Void at the end of the First Age.

One of the reasons for his self-weakening is that he has given to his 'creatures', Orcs, Balrogs, etc. power of recuperation and multiplication. So that they will gather again without further specific orders. Part of his native creative power has gone out into making an independent evil growth out of his control. (Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed)

Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest day. (The Silmarillion: Quenta Silmarillion)

When Melkor is defeated, Sauron takes his place, upholding the cycle of evil.

The servants of Sauron were routed and dispersed, yet they were not wholly destroyed; and though many Men turned now from evil and became subject to the heirs of Elendil, yet many more remembered Sauron in their hearts and hated the kingdoms of the West. The Dark Tower was levelled to the ground, yet its foundations remained, and it was not forgotten. (The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)

This is where Tolkien decides to end his grand saga about Middle-earth. Sauron is defeated, but evil is not. Months before his death, however, he started a draft of a story taking place about a century into the Fourth Age called “The New Shadow”. He eventually decided to scrap it, but the parts he did write indicate that evil still lingers in Middle-earth after the end of “The Lord of the Rings”.

He halted in the narrow passage that ran through the house, and it seemed that he was wrapped in a blackness: not a glimmer of twilight of the world outside remained there. Suddenly he smelt it, or so it seemed, though it came as it were from within outwards to the sense: he smelt the old Evil and knew it for what it was. (Morgoth’s Ring: “The New Shadow”)

The cycle of evil continues, even though Melkor no longer has any influence over the world. The Arda we see in Tolkien’s universe has always been marred – always, or never. These texts show that the concept of “Arda Unmarred” was most likely an invention of the Valar, or possibly the Elves – unreliable narrators with a desperate need for an explanation for why their world is full of evil. Ilúvatar’s original design was known to him and him alone, and Melkor was always a part of it.

Arda is simply Arda.

[avrelshud]

Yo you ever get this itch to see a crack Lost!AU where Sauron and Galadriel are forced to rely on each other to survive?

The premise could be that the forces of good (TM) are trying to banish Sauron but accidentally rip open a fabric of time-space and they both wind up on this island by accident. The only rule is that their powers don't work (or are not very effective cause they're both weak af), and so they can't rly harm each other.

So now they have to figure out how to 1) get back to their original timeline, 2) find shelter and food (or at least Gal does, Sauron kind of just glares at her across the sand while she dines on crab), and 3) try not to kill each other the whole time. Idk why no one thought of this before. Think of all the banter as the Dark Lord must be humbled as a low man again. Boom, ME is saved as Sauron is forced to go on this journey of self-discovery that the problem is really just himself.

[herrgoth-art]

Sauron x Eonwe

Саурон/Эонвэ (мой старый рисунок)

[princessfantaghiro]

NO LIES HERE.

He dangerous, he a monster big he also hot...

[princessfantaghiro]

[dreamyourselfxbackagain]

Look who just woke up- is that CHARLIE VICKERS? No, I must have been mistaken, that’s SAURON from LORD OF THE RINGS. I heard they are APPEARS 31 and stuck here just like everyone else. Even in the 20’s, he still give off a the road to hell is paved with good intentions, always wanting more, confidence that could kill, five steps ahead, the nightmare you tell your children about impression. But here, they are working as A POLITICIAN. They’re known to be quite CHARISMATIC & PATIENT, but have a tendency to be MANIPULATIVE & CRUEL on their bad days.

Gender/Pronouns : Male / he/him

How long have they been in Sydney : In his memories, 3 years. In reality, 2 months

Which suburb do they live in? Darling Point

Personality description : 

Strangers - he is a little cautious with strangers. He knows given his job people dislike him sometimes, but he won't try and be rude straight away. Often he will try and charm. He will definitely manipulate

Casual friends - He is still cautious, though a lot more relaxed. If he needs to manipulate them then he will, but for the most part he is at least pretending to just be a normal person

Loved ones - he has very few of those. Though he does try to be honest, more often it comes over as he can give them power, not always something they want.

Enemies - adding this one, because a lot of people aren't going to like him. He doesn't really care too much about that, if people need a villain he is happy to be it. If only because he knows now, no one really is going to listen to him.

Memories of their real life : 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and once upon a time a Maia named Mairon did have good intentions. Created by Eru, he was good and uncorrupted. However he wanted order and perfection, and soon realised the quickest way to archive this was by working with Morgoth. To begin with, keeping this a secret so he could gain information but before the end of The Years of the Lamps, his true intentions were revealed. Mairon was no more, instead he became Sauron.

Throughout the First Age Morgoth unleashed terror onto Middle Earth, with Sauron doing his bidding. During one battle, he picked up an insignia off a dead man. However after a defeat, he all but vanished. Morgoth was defeated, and Adar claimed he had killed Sauron due to his cruelty to the orcs.

Perhaps the story would have ended there. Sauron had indeed survived, but now lived under a fake name Halbrand, claiming to be a man running from orc attacks. He wanted to repent for what he had done, but also knew very few would believe him. It may have worked, if Galadriel had not ended up on the same raft.

They ended up on Númenor, where she learnt the insignia he carried belonged to the King of the South. He told her the truth, that he had found it on a dead man, however she didn't believe him. Meanwhile he became a blacksmith, his intent was to remain in Númenor, a peaceful life. But Adar was in the Southlands, and the thirst for revenge soon became overpowering. However when they did return, Galadriel prevent him from getting his revenge, believing Adar could tell her where Sauron was.

Míriel informed the people there that he was their long lost King, and suddenly a feeling he hadn't had in a long time came back. Power. If they were willing to give it to him so easily, perhaps it would be enough. But then Orodruin erupted and he was gravely injured. Whilst he wanted to stay and fight for the Southlands, Galadriel realised he would die from his wounds, and they left.

In Ost-in-Edhil he said something, phrases she had heard Adar use about Sauron, and she finally realised Halbrand was Sauron. After a confrontation he left, returning to the Southlands.

What was their fake life like:

Born into a normal family, it didn't even occur to Sauron to want for power. He was planning to spend his time as anyone in the 1900's would. Except a war broke out.

Like many his age, he ended up serving and it gave him a hatred for how the world was if this was what could happen. There was also horrors he saw out there. In his eyes, the world needed to change and likely the current one would need to burn for that to happen.

On returning, he opted to go into politics, starting at the bottom and slowly working his way up. He wanted to make the world better.

But then his memories came back, and suddenly he had centuries of memories. Had he been wrong before? With getting his memories back at the same time Mairon's thoughts were strong again, as were the ones of wanting redemption. Yet hadn't his point been proven here as well? The world cannot change unless it is broker first.

Optional, please pick at least three and interpret them however you wish ::

Location they work in: Parliament House

Theme Song: Gonna Know My Name - Diamond Dust

Quote: You don't know what I did, you don't know how I survived

[cuthalions]

Now Celebrimbor was not corrupted in heart or faith, but had accepted Sauron as what he posed to be; and when at length he discovered the existence of the One Ring he revolted against Sauron and went to Lórinand to take counsel once more with Galadriel. [...] When Sauron learned of the repentance and revolt of Celebrimbor, his disguise fell and his wrath was revealed.

— UNFINISHED TALES: THE HISTORY OF GALADRIEL AND CELEBORN

[admirableprecious]

This is one of the reasons Sauron ended up an emergent favorite. He considered repentance for whatever reason. I remember being a bit shocked by that.

sauron in the moments before rejecting eonwë's offer of pardon... i've always found him such a fascinating character. yes, he was seduced by melkor, but--to go to the lengths he went to? what was he trying to achieve, after melkor was gone? he's so loyal, what for? that kind of blind, desperate, undying loyalty is so fascinating and crunchy to me

(mairon's facial expression is inspired by the fallen angel by alexandre cabanel)

[dyrrn]

god this is the most stressful week of my life. what the hell

[sugurugetos]

In the Silmarillion and Tales of the First Age Sauron was a being of Valinor perverted to the service of the Enemy [Melkor] and becoming his chief captain and servant. He repents in fear when the First Enemy is utterly defeated, but in the end does not do as was commanded, return to the judgement of the gods. He lingers in Middle-earth. Very slowly, beginning with fair motives: the reorganising and rehabilitation of the ruin of Middle-earth, 'neglected by the gods', he becomes a reincarnation of Evil, and a thing lusting for Complete Power – and so consumed ever more fiercely with hate (especially of gods and Elves). — J.R.R Tolkien, in his letters.

Jack Lowden as SAURON THE LORD OF THE RINGS: Rings of Power (2.01)

[ghostinthetumbchine]

This but i also feel like it's important how they're starting from very different footing with very different slates.

(Im sorry OP im about to go into a yap session on your great post, hope you dont mind)

Stranger does not know who he is nor do people around him. In many ways he's a blank slate. He has no preexisting tendencies and convictions and people around him have no hangups nor reasons to have them other than maybe him being a bit strange. Its easy to love him, even when he makes mistakes because he just seems like an innocent baby lost in the world. And people do love him, and that makes all the difference.

We also know he is Olorin, a maia who has remained in valinor and spent his existence serving Manwe, Nienna aka caretakers, leaders, people who tend to and nourish what already exists, rather than focus on creation and progress and invention.

In comparison, we have Sauron with all the existing baggage, his own knowledge of his past and others justifiable hatred and prejudice towards him. He has thousands of years of living in darkness and brutality, negative conditioning and enforcement of ruthless, nihilist perspective. He's for sure cynical, disillusioned to the extreme and he already had a distincly non-incarnate perspective on existance before that. This position - which, granted, he mostly put himself into by switching to Morgoths side in the first place, ensures that he has no option for honest connection with anyone in vicinity.

And so maybe Im nitpicking, i don't mean to get in your parade op because your post is amazing, but i feel like its also making an inevitable - even if not intended - point about circumstances and context.

When you are innocent and do not actually have a history of doing really wrong things to people and watching them be done to others and to you and justified, this kind of messaging from your friends or "guides" - in this case I guess we can say Nori and Diarmid - will be valuable and it is for Gandalf and the viewers. And Sauron simply functions as a narrative mirror/negative example of someone who has already been making bad choices.

But i would love to see more exploration of the fact that to rehabilitate a genuinely bad person who on top of it has very self-righteous and cynical perspective on the world and has been in a brutal war with a significant part of it for a long time based on those principles, you would need an entirely different/more detailed approach. But ofc its not that kind of story, nobody truly awful for all the "i believe im right" reasons ever got that treatment in tolkien, they just get killed of or get the "maybe one day he will manage to redeem himself but hell if i know how"

The Stranger (Gandalf) and Sauron

 The thematic parallels in their storylines are one of the key threads of the show. Save or rule? Why action carries more weight than intent. Choosing every day to do good. To be good. Your actions reveal your nature.

Season 2 opens with Sauron given the opportunity to choose a new path. He seems to have moments where he leans toward repentance, as seen in this scene with Diarmid and “Halbrand”: 

-“Find forgiveness. You are alive because you have chosen good.” -“But what of tomorrow?” -“You have to choose it again. And the next day. And the next. Until it becomes a part of your nature.”

Consider then these scenes with the Stranger and Nori: 

-“You're not a peril. You're good.” -“I’m good?” -“You're good. Because you're here to help.” -“Get away from me. Or I wi… I will hurt you. Again.” -“What? What have they done to you?” -“They showed me what I am.” -“Only you can show what you are. You choose by what you do. You're here to help. I know it.”

In such conversations, there is an acknowledgement of harm caused: Sauron’s “I’ve done evil” (something he says to Galadriel as well in Season 1) and the Stranger’s “I am peril”/“I will hurt you again”. Throughout the season I think you see them both struggle with this. The difference being in season 2 that it may be Sauron’s intent to choose good (and maybe he thinks he is) but his actions are causing harm. The Stranger has the intent and acts congruently. He does not mean to cause harm and he does try to avoid it, because he recognizes that his actions can cause harm. 

In season 2 - Friends over power

The stranger chooses to save his friends over what power he might learn from the Dark Wizard, the promise that they would succeed Sauron (save or rule - he makes the choice to save)

Sauron calls Celebrimbor “friend” mockingly, tortures him and impales him with a spear. Calls himself the Lord of Eregion while he torments Celebrimbor into serving his purpose. He thinks he is healing Middle-earth while he causes destruction and he cannot see the difference. 

The Stranger sees the difference between “save” and “rule” and he chooses to do good. 

One is a peril to Middle-earth, the other an instrument of salvation. The irony being that Sauron sees himself as Middle-earth’s salvation and the Stranger calls himself a peril.

(Not sure I love the narrative choice to pair the morally questionable man with a woman whose purpose it seems is to guide him toward goodness, but that may be a little reductive of me, so I digress…)

[apoloadonisandnarcissus]

Tolkien: “Sauron was a victim of Morgoth’s corruption who, then, got high on power trips. When his master was defeated, he truly regretted everything that he has done, but was too proudful to return to Aman in humiliation and face the judgement of the Valar. He wanted to heal Middle-earth and create perfect order and harmony between its people but his bounds to Morgoth were too strong, and he fall back into evil (= became a tyrannical dictator). BTW, Gandalf with the One ring would have been far worse than Sauron himself.” 

Dudebros: “Sauron is the Satan of Tolkien lore!” 

Tolkien: “Galadriel is a proudful and power-hungry elf princess with a “Amazonian disposition” who wanted her own kingdom on Middle-earth. She rebelled against the Valar, and got banished from Valinor for it. Her character arc in “Lord of the Rings” is that of a “repentant sinner”. She’s only pardoned and allowed to return to Valinor after she resists Frodo’s offering her the One ring on the Third Age.” 

Dudebros: “Galadriel is the Virgin Mary of Tolkien lore!” 

“You are shipping Satan with the Virgin Mary, you blasphemous heretics!”  No, we are not.

You really should stop calling these idiots “lorebros” because the “lore” isn’t in the room with us.  

[neyafromfrance95]

i feel like when we talk about sauron x galadriel we often focus on either the dynamic itself or sauron's pov, and we need to talk about galadriel's pov more bc it's really fascinating and complex.

for starters, galadriel loves halbrand. it's been confirmed by the creators and by her reaction to him in 2.08. and it was simply obvious from everything leading up to that point. he is her one true love. the only being with from she established a true connection. a comrade with whom she found companionship. she found herself in a soulmate hurt/comfort au when she was with him. and it seems like, no matter how she feels about sauron, she will always love halbrand. what an epitome of tragedy it is to eternally love a man who never existed?

sauron implied that he wanted to heal her when he said that if he wanted forgiveness, he would need to heal everything he helped to ruin, and he took accountability for galadriel's trauma when he apologized for finrod and everything. and i think one of the reasons halbrand had such an effect on galadriel is that his presence really was healing for her. for the first time since finrod, she wasn't alone. she felt understood and believed. he made her open up to him. she could be vulnerable with him. i find it interesting that she mockingly asks him "do you want to heal me", as if making a point that he can't heal her so that she can pretend like he didn't at some point. it adds another layer to her shame too, bc as much as she believes he can't heal the middle-earth, he was able to heal her when he "created" halbrand for her.

she has spent a lifetime harboring a deep hatred of sauron. her main goal in the life being to take revenge on him for her brother. for her, he is a sworn enemy that she's destined to slay. her hatred and ambition to kill him so all consuming and intense that she turned her back on heaven for him and basically willed him back into life.

galadriel is sauron's mirror. she has gazed into the abyss for so long that the abyss gazed back into her. her fight against him has became an intrinsic part of her identity, and we see how now sauron binds her to himself several times, either by guilt or by stabbing her with morgoth's crown, so we can say he has become an intrinsic part of her very being. always there just above her heart.

i think that sauron believes when he says that he would make her his equal queen, i believe that this is what he wants deep down (she is a natural leader, he is a natural follower). but would that actually happen? i don't believe that galadriel would ever willingly join him in mordor not only bc of the light her gaze is fixed on and bc of finrod, but also bc her pride and fear wouldn't allow it. what sauron offers galadriel is basically what jareth offers sarah (labyrinth) - "just fear me, love me. do as i say and i will be your slave." sauron wants galadriel to tame him, in a way, but she wouldn't be able to torture him into submission like morgoth did, as she could never match his strength, even as a dark!witch-queen, and she knows that. unless he repents and joins her in valinor, as a couple, sauron will always dominate galadriel in their dynamic.

trop recontextualizes what we know about galadriel's future. nenya is a symbol of her relationship with sauron and it causes her an extreme sea-longing, and the sea is another thing associated with her bond with sauron. even tho she has family and friends, she feels alone and her heart has greatly desired what sauron's proposal tempted her with for 3000-5000 years! she didn't go to valinor when celebrian did, didn't stay in the middle-earth while celeborn did, she only left the middle-earth for valinor when sauron was gone! and she took nenya with her! with trop context, it doesn't only signify her holding onto power/fight, it signifies her holding onto the only one thing that materialized as a symbol of her connection with sauron/halbrand! so while she passes the test and resists the one ring, i believe she will always yearn for both power and halbrand.

the dichotomy between her love for halbrand and her hatred for sauron is such an interesting concept, as is the dichotomy of her opposing the darkness of the dark lord as the lady of the light while being the perfect mirror of sauron, completely understood only by him, being the only one he is capable of loving, cosmically bound to him by the sea and the blood.