#qun posting

[thewardenisonthecase]

the thing with the qun in da is that, even if DAO and DA2 had its missteps in representing it, they at the very least, gave you options to sympathize/try to understand it.

Yes, you can be very confrontational to sten about the qun, but also have the option to AGREE with him about the qun.

And hawke, tho to a much lesser extent considering what happens, can still take the Arishok's side, for example, and you'll gain those honor points by being honest and upfront to the Arishok about what's been going on with the qunari in kirkwall. Also, the qunari are almost written in a sympathetic light (tho it feels VERY unintentionally) in da2 - they're stuck here and from very early on they make it clear that their goal (or at least, their original goal) is NOT to invade. The Arishok even states that fixing your (kirkwall's) mess is not a demand of the qun. We see very clearly that what drives him to do all that is the fact that for 4 fucking years, he and his people have been shitted on and aggroe'd by the people of Kirkwall. It's not hard to sympathize with the qunari in da2 (even if the writing really does try it sometimes)

but with dai and dav it feels like the game has already decided that the Qun is super bad and you are not all allowed to agree with them. If an Adaar inquisitor expresses that they want to join the Qun, Josephine is quick to tell them to keep it down. If you decide to keep Bull loyal to the Qun, it will DIRECTLY lead to his death in Trespasser and according to the wiki, an inquisitor who romanced bull will also be partially blamed for the dragon's breath plot, so the game is basically telling you bull staying with the qun = BAD

AND THEN Dav comes around and literally all of the qunari, expect for taash, their mom, and that one weather guy and seer rowan, are depicted as the Bad Guys TM. Even tho they're technically not even qunari anymore, as they have all deflected the qun and thus should be considered tal-vashoth, the game still uses them to show that the Qun is bad because they're the antaam. Our only qunari companion struggles with the qun as they were raised completely outside of it and tho, i'll admit, i cannot comment on how the embrace being a qunari plot line goes for Taash as I haven't done that one yet, the game seems to push more for the rivaini route - example being the fucking rope scene where the game pratically says "the qun ties you down"

AND IT GETS WORST IF YOUR PC IS *ALSO* A QUNARI. Neither Adaar nor Rook are allowed to be followers of the qun - which, i can understand to some degree. It's easier to craft a story about them if they're tal-vashoth then going through the hoops of how a follower of the qun is doing all these unsanctioned acts. But, they're also not given the choice to meaningfully sympathezie with the qun. When Adaar tries to talk to bull about their experiences being qunari, Bull is quick to say that they're NOT *really* a qunari as they don't follow the qun, which brings that alienation - the only group of people that looks like you is not going to claim you as one of their own. And bull does this other times too btw, but in other words, the game is pushing you away from the qun.

I can't comment too much on a qunari rook but i can say that once again, the game is pushing you away from the qun. In that one scene where you establish some stuff about Rook via trinkets, you have two dialogue options about the qun - one that says that qunari sucks and another that says 'wow "my people" suck rn but we still made some good stuff'. While Adaar still has *some* connections to qunari culture (their parents being qunari, them being part of what seems to be a tal-vashoth only qunari mercenary band), rook has NONE of that.

Like the game has already decided that the qun is bad and your character should not even conceive of the fact that maybe there is something worst there and that maybe they would want to be a part of it.

and it gets to me because in the case of the PCs, you're not really allowed to explore what could be some very interesting stuff. How does an Adaar Inquisitor cope with the Dragon's Breath plot in a world that is EXTREMELY prejudice to any qunari, follower of the qun or not. How does a de Riva qunari rook cope with the invasion - the only people who look like them are also invading the only home they've ever known.

i think i derailed a bit from my original point so i might need to make a separate post. but it does GET to me that dao and da2 half asses attempt at the qun comes off way better than dai and dav's, the only games in which the PC can be a qunari. Because dao and da2 at the very least let you sympathezie with the qun in the slightest bit. Hell, even other characters comment on it - Alistair, who was raised in a chantry, says to the warden that when Sten talks about the qun, it doesnt seem as vile as the chantry makes it out to be.

and the thing is is that because in the later games they focus SO MUCH on the rigidness of the qun and especially the invader part of the qun, they forget that unlike the chantry, the qun is actually open to all, in the sense that, ANYONE can convert to the qun and they will not be turned away (maybe except for tal-vashoth but that's another topic of discussion), either elf, human or dwarf. HELL, part of the reason why Adaar is a VASHOTH and not a tal-vashoth is because, since they were born outside the qun and have never learned it properly, THEY WOULD STILL BE ALLOWED TO CONVERT, and these converts are allowed higher up positions in the qun, even if they're viddathari. Meanwhile, Leliana needs to become divine for the chantry to actually open its doors to everyone.

They also forget that the qun is pretty big on protecting its members. Seamus has converted for like a hot minute and when he is killed, they IMMEDIATLY avenge his death. Even if the elves might be converting to get away with crime, the Arishok is intent on protecting them because they're part of the Qun now. The qunari society functions as a living organism - the mind, the soul and the body. This is why the Antaam deflection is so bad because they now have to survive WITHOUT the body (by the way, that we never get to explore this, how qun society will move forwards without a significant portion of it, is a SHAME). MEANWHILE, the chantry is way too ok with supporting orlais in their occupation of ferelden.

anyways. i have more to say.

[butchvamp]

i already said it but it does really frustrate me how little agency Taash has and the more i think about it the more insidious it gets. again their entire story revolves around Rook making choices for them, and they're also consistently talked down to by other characters, even if those characters are depicted as being friendly or nice. Isabela treats them like a child despite Taash being a very accomplished dragon hunter with the lords (which we see, repeatedly, when fighting the blighted dragons! Taash is not a child), and of course there's their mother (at least this is intentional) and both her and Isabela go behind Taash's back to throw them in with Rook, without asking for their input. Isabela just assumes without even trying to discuss it with Taash separate from their mother, despite seemingly being aware of the two's strained relationship... and from there Isabela continues to make unnecessary comments to Taash whenever you visit the hall of valor with them.

even Flynn, the nonbinary grey warden you meet in the wetlands, condescends to them about the Qun when discussing their gender, and Taash isn't allowed to disagree with them (apparently they give Flynn a Look but ultimately don't press the issue) and Flynn is depicted as being helpful in this discussion. Rook lectures them about gender and their own culture; their entire narrative revolves around Other People telling them what to do and how to feel-- it's obviously meant to be Bad when Taash's mother does it, because she (the Qun) is oppressive, but otherwise the game seems to be fine when it's Rook or literally anyone else doing it, because we're the enlightened Good Guys, and Taash is just helpless and confused and so oppressed. of course, i don't think it's bad for Rook to discuss these things with Taash or give them gentle suggestions, and i don't even hate the potential gender discussion you can have with a trans Rook; and for the record, their mother does treat them poorly. but we can't ignore the way Taash's repeated infantilization culminates in the player being the one to choose their culture for them in the end, because..?

well, the game clearly doesn't think Taash is capable of doing it themselves. at one point Taash links the ropes they wear for the Qun to the ones the antaam used to tie down a dragon and "blight" them. even if i'm feeling gracious and say that Weekes really meant that womanhood & their mother's expectations are restricting, they actively chose to use the ropes of the Qun to make this comparison, and so are also implying here that their mother teaching them the Qun has tied them down and "blighted" them-- that the Qun has "infected" their thinking and is as bad as the blight (this is also implied in the previous discussion with Flynn). this is.... really racist. it takes Rook and their, again, "enlightened" (white) ideas about gender to get through to Taash, nevermind that the Qun has its own ideas around gender that just get shouted down or completely ignored. the racism here results in the narrative contradicting itself, considering one of the first things Taash says is "you don't get to tell me who i am" but... Rook does, in the end, because intentional or not the game is clearly convinced that a person like Taash needs someone from outside of their and their mother's culture (aka free of "blight") to come tell them what's best for them.... 🤔 hm! and while it's true you can choose for them to align with the qunari in the end, that doesn't mitigate all of the heinous and racist writing that leads up to that choice (and that the choice itself is racist. and you have to make it twice!)

of course we can say that Rook makes choices for all of the companions, this is true, but it's obvious that none of the other companions' choices are in the same ballpark, we aren't directly deciding something about their identity, and none of them lack agency to the same extent as Taash. we can even argue that they need Rook to explain gender to them, no one else ever has-- well, sure. the thing with Taash is that some parts of their story, when removed from context, are perfectly fine. i'm not criticizing the way Taash talks or acts or "does gender," all of which are things some people may connect to for various reasons (all of our experiences are different) but unfortunately we cannot discuss any of this without addressing the racism that is so thoroughly baked into every aspect of their character.

i criticized Taash for being "childlike" previously and that really wasn't the right phrasing-- i don't think that Taash themselves is childlike, it has nothing to do with them-- it's the way the narrative treats them, the way other characters talk down to them, how it takes away their autonomy & forces us to go along with it, and ultimately educate them and "save" them, and i think it's worth interrogating why Taash, of all the companions, is specifically depicted this way (it's racism).

[thequndemands]

It's always sunny in Thedas.

[moontheoretist]

Banters I wish existed in DA2:

Anders: I'm sorry about what I said earlier, Fenris. Fenris: You must be more specific, mage. You said many awful things to me. Anders: sighs Yeah, I did. I apologize about all of them, but also specifically about my Qun comment. I didn't intent it as a slight, but I realized it was offensive and I apologize. Fenris: Hm… no matter. You didn't know. Anders: I just… let me explain. Those elves we met. They seemed so happy under the Qun, so I just thought that maybe there is a better life there to be had for the elves. Fenris: I see why you may have thought that way, but no. Living under the Qun is living as an occupation, not a person. I wouldn't be allowed to do anything other than fighting. Anders: I made a very poor assumption then, I apologize.

Fenris: … me too. Anders: What? Fenris: I apologize too about what I said about taking you with me to join the Qun. Anders: Oh, no. It's ok. I understood what you meant. You just wanted me to shut up. Fenris: Yes, but in my attempt to shut you up I said something wrong. And I want to apologize. Anders: I know I will regret asking, but… can you tell me why? Fenris: Under the Qun mages are not seen as anything else than a weapon. Especially the mages born outside the Qun. If I took you with me, I would doom you to the similar or maybe even worse fate than the one I had with Danarius. Knowing you, you would be rebellious, and they would give you qamek to make you docile. You would be a mindless slave. Anders: … let's just both avoid the Qun, shall we?

I could imagine them having banters as such if companions had the relationship bars with each other too, or if you were taking them a lot to the same missions so they would spend enough time with each other to actually apologize (if we can have Adoribull we can have this too). This is also a direct continuation of my rewriting banters post.

[thatwavephenomenon]

I disagree with the take that 'Taash's mother should have been a Tamassran' actually. Listen the Qun has never been the part of the lore that interested me the most but. From what we know it's a rigid system and society where people are assigned their jobs based on their aptitudes. Their entire selves are then determined by that role. But here's the thing. Even a system/society which very clearly dictates the way its people have to live cannot account for everything. I don't know if it's a perfect comparison but if you want another in-universe example of such things happening, there's the Circles. Mages in the Circles are/were forbidden from having families or even relationships, yet some of them still got pregnant, like Wynne. So who knows what happened in the case of Taash's mother? We don't, or at least we don't know the details, but while Veilguard in my opinion has a lot of flaws I don't think it's such a great problem here. There's also the fact that if she had been a Tamassran, Taash's mother would have probably been someone nurturing. And in a game with a lot of somewhat shallow writing, I thought that seeing a character who was so attached to the Qun/the way things Must Be and who still had something happen which made her Not Fit In anymore, who chose to leave it all behind for the child she definitely should not have had, was interesting.

[panahedvn]

Anyways friends I posted two fics in the last few days

what has magic touched - Fenris and Dorian meet in Inquisition, complicated feelings happen, followed by a scary mystery adventure (I have been working on it for months and I’m sick of it)

ashkaari - Modern au, Bull helping his Tama in the kitchen

[daitranscripts]

Demands of the Qun Pt. 4

Plan of Attack

Iron Bull Masterpost First: Letter From the Ben-Hassrath Previous: Gatt

The PC approaches where Bull is speaking to his men.

Iron Bull: Once they’re down, send up your signal. That’ll let the dreadnought know it’s safe to come in.

Krem: Understood, chief.

Iron Bull: Remember, you’re gonna want a volley to start, but don’t get suckered into fighting at range They’ve got mages.

Krem: It’s all right. We’ve got a mage of our own.

Dalish: I’m not a mage!

Iron Bull: Get in close and take their enchanter down before he takes over the battlefield.

Skinner: He’ll be dead before he knows it.

Iron Bull: Just… pay attention, all right? The Vints want this red lyrium shipment bad.

Krem: Yes, I know. Thanks, Mother.

Iron Bull: Qunari don’t have mothers, remember?

Krem: We’ll be fine, chief.

Iron Bull: All right, Chargers! Horns up!

Krem: Horns up!

The PC walks up.

Iron Bull: Ready whenever you are, boss.

PC: I’m ready to head out, Bull.

Iron Bull: Right. Chargers! Hit ’em hard and hit ’em fast! When this is over, drinks are on me!

Krem: You got it, chief! Chargers, double-time! Let’s move!

The Chnagers head off, and the PC’s party heads up the hill.

Gatt: You gave your Chargers the easier target. Iron Bull: You think?

Gatt: Lower and father down from the smugglers’ ship? It’s much less likely to be heavily defended.

Iron Bull: Suppose we’ll do the heavy lifting then. Just like old times.

Gatt: (Chuckles.)

They continue on.

Gatt: Be careful. My agents said to expect opposition ahead of the main charge.

Iron Bull: We’ve all done this a few times, Gatt.

Gatt: You’ve been living outside the Qun for years now, Iron Bull. Just wanted to make sure your reflexes hadn’t gotten as soft as the rest of you.

Iron Bull: Ouch.

If Solas is in the party Gatt: I don’t see any tattoos, but you’re carrying a staff. Are you from a Chantry Circle?

Solas: No. And I would prefer not to discuss it.

Gatt: Have I done something to offend you?

Solas: You joined the Qun.

Gatt: After they rescued me from slavery.

Solas: And put you into something worse. A slave may always struggle for freedom. But you among the Qun have been taught not to think.

Iron Bull: Solas, not the time.

If Cole is in the party Gatt: Iron Bull’s reports say you’re a demon.

Cole made more spirit Cole: Heart hammering, brush of breath at the base of my back. He licks his thumb before turning the page. He never finished. You don’t have a demon inside of you. You don’t have to wonder anymore. Gatt: Stop. Just… stop. Iron Bull: Cole, knock it off. People who follow the Qun get nervous around demons, remember?

Cole made more human/personal quest incomplete Cole: I’m trying not to be. Sometimes it’s hard. I want to kill a lot of people, but I don’t. Gatt: Because the Inquisitor has bound you? Cole: Because it’s not right.

Gatt: Bull, how can you work with a demon? Iron Bull: He’s all right.

If Dorian is in the party Gatt: You must wish you were back in Tevinter, mage. No soldiers to guard you here, no slaves to wait on you.

Dorian: It’s the lack of fashion that really strikes fear into my heart.

Gatt: You know nothing of fear.

Dorian: And do you intend to teach me?

Gatt: No. You serve the Inquisition, and the Ben-Hassrath wish an alliance. For now, that is enough.

If Vivienne is in the party Gatt: Now that the Circles have fallen, it must please you to wield your power so freely, mage.

Vivienne: Quite the reverse. Mages are dangerous, and their power makes them feared. The Circles protected us.

Gatt: You almost sound reasonable.

If Sera is in the party Gatt: You’re not Dalish. Were you confined to an alienage as a child?

Sera: Not for bloody long.

Gatt: You might be interested to know that Qunandar treats our kind far better than Ferelden or Orlais.

Sera: Not interested in how you want to treat me.

Gatt: Perhaps another time, then.

The party approaches some Tevinter forces.

Bull: Vints up ahead! Gatt: Don’t let them warn the others!

Gatt: Get ready. We’re close.

The PC clears out the camp.

Gatt: Can you make out any of your mercenaries down there?

Iron Bull: Not from here. Probably a better view once we take the Vints’ camp.

Gatt: Worried?

Iron Bull: They’re my men. I’ve been with some of them for years.

Next: A Choice

[taamlok]

muireann and taash both getting told to hit the bricks because they get so mad that they do something reckless and accidentally cause a political nightmare for the lords of fortune is something that is so beautiful

[turbo-virgins]

got bored and decided to take a look at my old dragon age pinterest board and found some fan theories about what would happen in da4 based on the worldstate inquisition left us with… oops, now I’m very very sad 🥲

[thewardenisonthecase]

god the things i would give to learn more about what happened to the qunari. bc like clearly something DID happen consiering that the first expedition, who were qunari predating the qun, simply vanished (and i wonder if the qun was in part born bc of that?)

[butchvamp]

reading the vows and vengeance scripts..... i wonder at what point in development these were written, there's some inconsistencies particularly with taash and bellara so far. taash actually feels closer to their datamined description than they do to their final in-game character.

[sulky-valkyrie]

Hi from dadwc! I'm very intrigued about "I did warn you not to trust me." From dialogue prompts for Isabela?

Happy Fridaaaaaaaaaay!!! for @dadrunkwriting

Emjee leaned on the bar.  “Thought you said you left.”

Isabela hid a wince.  This wasn't how their reunion was supposed to happen.  Granted, she had no idea how it should've gone, which was why she was here.  Not at Merrill’s, or Emjee's.  Drinking alone, or whatever passed for it in a crowded bar.  Going to the Hanged Man hadn't been the brightest idea, but it was familiar, more so than any other place in Kirkwall.  Maybe, just maybe, Isabela had hoped, if she stood at her usual spot at the bar, she’d know what to say when any of her former friends next stopped by.

She didn’t.  Instead, she downed another shot and wiped at her mouth with the back of her hand before gathering the courage to look up.  “I did.  Twice.”

Emjee arched an eyebrow as they pursed their lips together.  Isabela knew that expression well, and hated to see it turned on her.  It meant they weren’t Emjee anymore, but Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, lauded by enemies and hangers-on alike for their service to the city that would’ve chewed them up and spat them out barely four years ago.  She turned away and motioned Corff for another drink.

“Better do it a third time then, I guess,” they said.

Ow.  Isabela spun around, snarl ready on her tongue, but the look on their face wasn’t mocking or angry.  It was… sad.  Worried.  “Why?” she heard herself ask.

Emjee offered a small smile.  “Well, otherwise you lied to me, right?  Terrible thing, secrets and lies in relationships.  If we have one, I mean.”

What about love?  Emjee had asked that first night.  Isabela had brushed the question off before pulling on her boots and sauntering out the door.  But that was before they’d risked the entire city to keep her safe.  Before they showed her love wasn’t a bauble to be locked up and admired in its gilded cage, but a living breathing thing, made of hopes and fears and dreams, and,t most importantly, of action.

Yet still she’d left, running from those feelings as much as the howling mob who’d called for her execution for bringing the qunari down on the city in the first place.  

She’d left, but now she was back.  She slid her rum toward Emjee, like a boozy little olive branch.  “I…”  Had she ever apologized for anything before in her life?  Maker, why was talking about this so hard?

“Yeah?”  Emjee prompted as they sipped at it, grimaced, then sipped again.  

“I did warn you not to trust me,” Isabela finally said, then offered a soft smile of her own.  It wasn’t enough, but hopefully, it could be a start.

[aclassitag]

my only da:4 wants: krem and maevaris

well. extra extra hope: maevaris romance

(p.s. im gonna go in completely blind for the game so idk any theories or whatever)

[ladyinthebluebox]

gently asking my brain to chill out with ideas so i can catch up with the ones i already have noted down.

[impmansloot]

so this probably has been discussed many times but i've been thinking about that bullshit take solas says to qunari inky and how it confuses me

so solas says to adaar that "the qunari are savage creatures whose ferocity is held in check only by the rigid teachings of the qun" but you're totally not like them inquisitor you've impressed me :) like he probably knows how the qunari were created etc etc but either way not cool bro

and most importantly, i find it very weird considering his dialogues with bull since we learn that solas hates the qun as a tool to brainwash people and strip them of their freedom. He says the complete opposite of what he says to adaar and even pretty much disapproves of bull calling the tal-vashoth "savages", arguing that they turn out like this precisely because of the qun:

also this haha im okay

so i don't know what to think of it. it's either a change of opinions/character development (?) or a plot hole. or maybe something else i don't see.

[chedelat]

qunari dragon age they could never make me hate you