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darnmand · 3 months ago

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Historical notes on Armand’s cultural background in the show

In the interest of not playing fast and loose with South Asian history and geopolitics, I have, to the best of my ability, compiled this guide on Armand as a character in the historical context of the regions and periods he is associated with. I am not an expert on these things, so anyone more educated than me is welcome to suggest edits. Probably the most complex topic here is language, and so that is the section in which I most likely made errors.

While I do have some formal academic training in this area, I must emphasize again that I am not an expert, nor am I native to any of the countries listed here, so I am functioning mostly on outsider knowledge. In the interest of making this accessible, most of this information can also be found on Wikipedia with a quick google search. This is not definitive or exhaustive, but it is meant to encourage people to be conscientious about not slipping into Orientalist thought or discourse when discussing the character (or ever, obviously). Also please remember not to conflate the character and the actor. This may also serve as a tool for fic writers.

Content warning: discussion of slavery/slave trade

(Main content below the cut)

Period and Region

India

Armand tells Daniel in s1e7 that he is 514 in 2022, meaning he was either born or made around the year 1508. He tells both Louis and Daniel that he is from Delhi, or was at least in Delhi when he was abducted. Delhi is a city in Northwestern India that sits on the border between the states of Uttar Pradesh and Haryana. (There is an Old Delhi and a New Delhi. These two cities abut and overlap one another. Armand refers to Old Delhi.) Therefore, Armand would have been living in Delhi during the latter years of the Delhi Sultanate, which was an empire of Islamic dynasties that ruled Northwestern India from the late 12th century until the Mughal conquest in 1526. (The Delhi Sultanate also pushed expansion into the south and the east during various periods throughout its reign. Its main opponents were other Muslim kingdoms along with Hindu kingdoms, especially in the south.)

Italy

Armand would have been living in the Republic of Venice during the height of the Venetian Renaissance. Like the Delhi Sultanate, the Republic of Venice was also in its later years during this time, but, although the Republic did face economic and political unrest during this period, they remained the richest city-state in Italy. Marius was a Venetian painter, a contemporary of Tintoretto, according to Armand in season 1. Tintoretto lived from 1518 to 1594. Whether the painting Daniel is examining in the episode was painted before or after Armand’s arrival in Venice is unclear, but we can assume that he was living in Venice as Amadeo in the early decades of the 16th century. The Republic entered its full fledged decline in the 18th century, by which time Armand would have been in Paris.

Language

In India

Armand most likely spoke an early version of Hindustani (likely Hindavi) while living in Delhi, although, according to the books, Armand has mostly forgotten his native language by the time Marius buys him. Hindustani first developed under the Delhi Sultanate, and is still spoken today. Its two main branches today are Hindi and Urdu. (Many other languages are also spoken in India today, including English, Punjabi, Tamil, Bengali, and many more. Sadly, not all of these languages enjoy legal status.)

Armand may have also spoken a dialect of Western Hindi, which was commonly spoken in Haryana and Uttar Pradesh, and is an ancestor of Hindustani.

Hindavi and Persian were the official languages of the sultanate.

Hindavi is the most likely due to his region, period, and his Sanskrit name, Arun. Sanskrit is an Old Indo-Aryan language from which many later Indo-Aryan languages are derived. (Sanskrit names are still common in South Asia.)

In Italy and France

However, as mentioned previously, Armand forgets his native language early in life. Therefore, it is unclear whether he counts it among the languages he speaks when he tells Daniel that French was his fifth language.

While in Venice in the books, Armand is trained in classical Latin and Greek, and often communicates in Greek, which was also the canonical language of Eastern Orthodox which he practiced in the books before his abduction. Italian and Venetian were also spoken in Venice at the time, so it is likely that Armand picked up both of those while living there. Even if he only picked up Venetian, he would have learned Italian while living with the Children of Darkness in Rome. Venetian, Italian, and Latin were the official languages of the Republic of Venice.

He tells Daniel that he learned both French and English while living in Paris (making English his sixth language).

Religion

In Dehli

The Sanskrit name Arun also suggests that Armand was from a Hindu family living in Delhi. While having a Sanskrit name does not necessarily preclude his being Muslim, it is just more likely that he was Hindu. The majority religion in Delhi during the sultanate was Hinduism, while Islam was practiced mainly by the elite, although conversion was common. The state religion of the sultanate was Sunni Islam. Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism, and Zoroastrianism were also practiced in the sultanate.

Sanskrit is the canonical language of both Hinduism and Buddhism, but Buddhism was facing persecution during this period, and therefore becoming increasingly rarer in the north.

We can assume that Armand was devoted most likely to Hinduism, or possibly one of the others listed, as Armand is deeply religious in the books.

In Dubai, Venice, and Paris

We do see Armand praying according to Islamic practice in season 1. Even more confusingly, Daniel points out that the phrase “asr namozi” is not Arabic, but perhaps Kazakh. “Asr namozi” is actually an Uzbek phrase referring to the asr prayer, or “afternoon prayer,” in Islam. Why Armand would be speaking Uzbek is lost on me, as nothing else in his history necessarily suggests ties to the region. It could be part of his Rashid disguise to somehow misdirect Daniel. Whatever the case, as a highly intelligent five hundred year old vampire, I’m sure Armand could learn any language he wanted.

While Armand may not have practiced Islam during his life in Delhi, it is entirely possible he later converted. If Armand was Hindu, it would also make sense that he lapsed out of practice in Venice, as, in the books, Armand loses almost all ties to his native culture while in Venice (his name, his language, his religion, etc.) at least partially due to Marius’s influence. Marius’s beliefs are closely aligned with western humanism, and so he discourages Armand from complete devotion to religion. The state religion of the Republic was Roman Catholicism, but Eastern Orthodox, Protestantism, and Judaism were also practiced. There was also a small Muslim population, mainly Ottoman merchants.

The “Children of Darkness,” the vampire cult which kidnaps Armand in Venice and which he later leads in Paris, follows Catholic teachings. In the book and in the show, the cult’s obsession with Satan is explicitly Catholic. Satan is also an adversarial figure in Islam (called “Iblis” or “Shaitan”), so if Armand was a practitioner of Islam before, he likely would have been able to syncretize those beliefs and practices with those of the Children or Darkness. However, by the time Lestat finds Armand, he has lost faith (if he ever had it) in the teachings of the Children of Darkness. The last is true of both the show and the novels.

In the novels, Armand alternates between periods of religious fanaticism and zealotry and total atheism, so it would make sense that, along these oscillations, he would also move between different religions, trying to find the right one. In the books, after Armand meets Lestat, he enters a period of atheism that lasts well into the twentieth century. If the show is following this sequence, then it is likely that Armand’s praying in front of Daniel is just part of his disguise. However, the show clearly is not following the novels’ timeline to a T, so it is also entirely possible Armand is genuinely praying in this scene.

Slave Trade

(Disclaimer: Slavery is, unfortunately, ubiquitous across cultures and time periods. While slavery is deplorable in any context, the intent of this post is not to make moral judgements about any one culture. It is simply to discuss the possible historical context of a fictional character. We ought to condemn slavery wherever we see it, but we ought not to view it as pathological to one culture or another. Slavery is still practiced in various forms today (wage slavery, convict leasing, illegal human trafficking, etc.) Slavery serves a capitalist market, but it can create revenue in other systems as well.)

Slave trade was a major economic practice under the Delhi Sultanate, with the enslaved most commonly being of Turkic or Hindu origin.

(From the Wikipedia page on “Slavery in India.��)

Enslavement of Muslims was far less common under the Delhi Sultanate (although many enslaved people converted to Islam), and so this, again, suggests Armand was most likely a Hindu.

Slave trade was highly regulated under the sultanate, and private slave trade was essentially banned. The exporting of enslaved people on the international market was an important source of revenue for the sultanate, especially during military campaigns. (Slavery continued in the Mughal period, but in somewhat different contexts.)

Therefore, Armand was likely a young Hindu who was abducted in Delhi with sanction from the state and sent overseas to be sold on the international market, landing him in Venice.

However, it is also possible that Armand was abducted by Venetians, as the Republic often sent merchant ships to foreign countries, including India, during this period. The Republic also had many trade outposts and territories in various central and west Asian cities. I am unsure whether this type of trade would have been considered legal or permissible under the sultanate.

In the books, Armand is abducted by the Ottomans and taken to Constantinople/Istanbul to be sold. This is a less likely possibility for the show, given the shift in region.

If you’ve stayed with me this long, thanks for reading. All bolded terms have corresponding Wikipedia articles. This post may be edited according to new information or outside corrections.

#the vampire chronicles #interview with the vampire #armand #interview with the vampire amc #interview with the vampire spoilers #book spoilers #the vampire armand #iwtv amc #amc iwtv #iwtv spoilers #iwtv #tvc #iwtv text post #iwtv discourse #iwtv theory #iwtv fic

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timetravellingkitty · 1 year ago

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hi!! I just found out about tumblr having an anti-hindutva tag and I shall be making myself comfortable here! just found your account like a few mins ago and if it’s ok, i wanted to ask some questions (you absolutely don't have to answer if you don't like any of them or even if you don't feel like answering :) ) (edit added, this ask got way too long lol. feel free to skip it! also, you're kinda super cool lol)

I'm Indian, currently outside India, and I've only started learning about the shitshow going on in my 'mahaan bharat' since November (specifically since finding out that we are Irahell's biggest weapons buyer). and the more I find out the more shocked and heartbroken I feel...

like this week i learnt about the immigration ban in US against Chinese women that existed a few decades ago, and the ongoing discrimination against Palestinians in Canadian immigration services... and both the times I was so disgusted and there was this subconscious feeling that India should never be like that. but then an hour ago I learnt about the 2019 CAA and wtf!?

another example being that currently we're seeing israhell's continuous bombing of heritage sites of great cultural and religious significance, that also held so many centuries old records and histories... and learning about how they are bulldozing over graveyards and exhuming them...

and then today I learnt about Akhonji Masjid and Gyanvapi Masjid and of course have known about Babri Masjid for a few weeks now...

and only learnt about Kashmir in november...

and I feel like my whole worldview has shifted from a previous foundation, except it's so drastic and I still don't have a new foundation...

I try to talk to members of my family about this but they're the Indian equivalent of the U.S. liberals, and every single time they'll tell me "whatever news you're hearing is propaganda written by Pakistan/China/U.S./Russia. trust me I have Muslim friends and they're very happy. you just don't know the situation cause you're not in India" and like it sometimes make me think maybe I'm the one losing my mind...

I even read some places about free Punjab and that confused the fuck out of me cause I'm Punjabi (who does not live in Punjab) and I don't have any clue what it's about... I asked my fam, but they just gave me a weird look and told me to stay away from anyone that mentions Khalistan😭💀

(this got way longer than I expected, so sorry) but would you have any recommendations for any blogs/articles/books/podcast resources or any personal recommendations for news publications that are reliable (finding God would probably be easier than finding such publications lmao) like I thought Al-Jazeera is super credible, but then read that they're super credible when it comes to Palestine, not when it's global...

like where tf do I go from here lol

hello nonnie! some news sites I'd recommend are newslaundry (they have a youtube channel too), the wire, scroll.in and newsclick. maktoob media is mostly focused on minority rights in india. hindutvawatch.org is about hindu fascist violence committed against minorities. I still think you should stick to al-jazeera at least when it comes to palestine (they have journalists on the ground there, shireen abu akleh was one of them)

this is a good introduction to anyone wanting to learn about hindutva, this and this are about how india is becoming increasingly unsafe for minorites and is undergoing a democratic backsliding. this and this are about the rss link to nazism

hostile homelands by azad essa is about india's historical relationship with israel and the parallels between hindutva and zionism. the brown history podcast has an episode about how india went from the first non-arab state to recognise palestine to its largest buyer of weapons, featuring azad essa (x). you can also read colonising kashmir by hafsa kanjwal about how india came to militarily occupy kashmir. if you want to learn more about kashmir there are the blogs kashmiraction.org and standwithkashmir (which is um. blocked in india. i wonder why)

i have not read khaki shorts and saffron flags yet but this one is about the history of the rss. i also suggest watching the documentaries ram ke naam and jai bhim, comrade which are about the hindutva mobilisation in the 1980s

for me free punjab is very ?? the indian government is beyond evil as they continue to spy on sikhs abroad (and ofc, the 1984 sikh genocide) but i don't think liberation will be achieved through a religious ethnostate. any state formed on the basis of religion will inevitably turn out to be a disaster. i do encourage you to read lost in history: 1984 reconstructed by gunisha kaur, which is about the human rights violations committed against sikhs during this time and why operation bluestar was in fact not about freeing sri harmandir sahib from "terrorists." all i can say is to stand with sikhs unapologetically as our shitass government continues to commit more and more human rights violations against them

in general, i'd tell you to observe the language used by different news outlets and question it (eg. american news referring to israelis below the age of 18 as children but the same courtesy is not extended to palestinians) and check their sources. if it's from whatsapp university don't even bother

#i really really hoped this poorly drafted response helps #feel free to ask more qs if you have any!#also omg fellow punjabi HIIIII I'M PUNJABI FROM MY MOM'S SIDE #asks #anon #hindutva

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dailypunjabpost · 1 year ago

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"Punjabi News Live" segment, we not only keep you informed but also engaged. Our live news broadcasts offer an interactive platform, allowing viewers to participate, comment, and engage in discussions, fostering a sense of community among our audience.

#latest punjabi news #punjabi news #punjabi newspaper #punjabi news today

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whalesongsblog · 1 day ago

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I’ve been really curious and meaning to ask - what does Ominis think of the caste system/does it exist where the princess is from? I was just thinking about what Ominis would think when he learns about it, and the concept that your previous life’s actions /karma have influence on how you are born. I feel like it would be really complicated due to his own thoughts on his family/being born blind… how he would adjust to moving to a culture that believes that, and I was wondering if you’d thought about it at all.

Oohohohoho thank you for this question!!! Okay omg so the caste system thing is complicated. Before British colonization, the caste system was more of a social grouping thing based on your chosen career rather than based on birth. These social structures were very malleable. The hierarchy and rigidity of it all and the concept of a ‘lower caste’ came with the British.

For example, India was really LGBT friendly. A lot of our deities are male and female presenting, some have had same sex love interests etc. But homophobia was beaten into us, just like the caste system. Even the word ‘caste’ comes from the Portuguese word ‘casta.’ (Don’t get me started on what the Portuguese did to us omg. If you thought the British were bad…)

Now this is a pretty hot debate. Some people attribute the caste system entirely to India and I will say, in some parts of India, the system still remains present, distorted, and harmful. However I think it’s very important to look at our historical record before and after British rule, and acknowledge that the original texts this concept was taken from never spoke of superiority or inferiority.

And no, the caste system (as it is understood today) does not exist where Mira is from.

Now for the Karma thing!!

In our faith, things like blindness are not necessarily considered punishment. Surdas (a devotee of lord Krishna and monumentally significant in Hinduism) has blindness. Ma Manasa is a goddess worshipped in the Northeast who was born with only one eye. Gandhari (mother of the Kauravas in the Mahabharata) blindfolded herself her entire life to live in solidarity with her husband, who was blind.

The concept of karma, dharma, and the maya we live in is REALLY complicated. We believe that the conditions we are born in are chosen by the aatma (the soul) before birth because we choose what lessons we are going to learn during our time on earth. When you die, you understand why you chose what you chose.

So with Ominis, absolutely no one would go up to him and be like ohhh you did bad things in a past life and you’re paying for it now huh lmao 😭

In fact I’m going to go out on a limb and say he’d be treated much better in India than he was in Britain.

ALSO WHILE I HAVE YALL HERE! Please read up on British colonization!! It wasn’t just unfair taxes and peaceful protests! There were genocides and mass famines orchestrated by the British that have fundamentally changed our BODY TYPES because of how intense it was. (Look up the West Bengal famine. It’s really horrific though, so TW.) We were mutilated and tortured and sent to labor camps for wearing our own handwoven clothes or speaking our own language. They stole 45 trillion dollars worth of our wealth and literally tore our country apart.

The Jallianwala Bagh massacre is only one of many examples of British cruelty. There was an unarmed, peaceful protest going on against British presence in the country in a garden in Amritsar. Police locked the place down and opened fire on unarmed men, women, and children. I’ve been to that place and seen bullet scars in the walls and the well that some women jumped into with their children to avoid being killed.

The deep scars of colonization persist to this day. My mother had to pay a fine if she spoke in Punjabi instead of English at her school, and hundreds of regional languages and cultures have been lost.

Sorry this got heavy but people have no idea the atrocities we’ve been through and how difficult it is to bounce back from hundreds of years of oppression, cruelty, and violence.

#ominis gaunt #ominis gaunt x oc #ominis gaunt x f!mc #desi oc

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southeastasianists · 11 months ago

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Penang is well-known for its vibrant Straits Chinese Peranakan culture, but if you know where to look, there’s another chapter to its history. While the focus is often on the marriage between overseas Chinese traders marrying local Malay women, the truth is, the Chinese were not the only traders conducting business in George Town. Merchants from around the region were familiar with Penang, having already flowed through Penang on various trading missions.

Between the 10th and 18th centuries, traders and migrants from India, Persia, and the Middle East arrived in Penang. Their marriages with local Malay women gave rise to a new branch of the Peranakans, known as Jawi Peranakan, with Jawi denoting Southeast Asian Muslims, and Peranakan taking its meaning from the Malay word ‘anak’, or child. Over time, this group expanded to include those who had Arab-Malay ancestry. In Penang, they were also once known as Jawi Pekan.

The Jawi Peranakan cuisine, much like its Chinese cousins, draws on cultural exchanges between Malay cuisine and its Indian, Arab, and Persian influences. Jawi Peranakan dishes tend to feature ingredients from India and the Middle East, including ground almonds and cashews, saffron, and rosewater. The cuisine of the Jawi Peranakan was generally recognized to be more lavish, and was often served during feasts and special occasions.

To get a taste of this chapter of Peranakan history, visit Jawi House, located on Armenian Street in the heart of George Town’s downtown heritage district. The house was recently renovated in 2012 according to UNESCO World Heritage Guidelines, but it has existed for six generations. It was established by the Karim family of Punjabi-Jawi Peranakan history, and today functions as not just a restaurant showcasing a modern take on Jawi Peranakan cuisine, but also as a small gallery charting the family’s history as well as classic handcrafted art. Helmed by Chef Nurilkarim Razha, a descendant of the Karim family, the restaurant offers up iconic Jawi Peranakan fare. Popular dishes include lamb bamieh, a fragrant, aromatic Persian-inspired okra and tomato-based lamb stew; serabai, a Malay kuih which resembles a tangy, spongier pancake made from fermented rice batter and served with caramel kaya (coconut jam); and nasi lemuni, an herbaceous rich rice dish cooked with butterfly pea flowers and the herb Vitex trifolia.

#Southeast Asia #Malaysia #Penang #Jawi Peranakan

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