#proper stan behavior

[0dayssincejensenwasobjectified]

THIS IS PROPER STAN BEHAVIOR!

Not a fan of the Destiel hearts, but I'll pass on seeing PROPER STAN BEHAVIOR.

[ckret2]

This is the first time I see someone saying that Filbrick kicked out Stan as primarily a protective measure. To me, honestly, he sees his children as investing to make money and found the perfect excuse to throw away the son he never wanted on the streets when a convenient excuse appeared. After all, he already had a bag full of clothes when he throwed Stan in the streets.

It's a cartoon episode that had 22 minute to pack in the entirety of Ford & Stan's backstory. He flung a duffel bag at Stan as a way to tell the viewers "he's serious about kicking Stan out" and we didn't see him pack it because that would've cost 30 seconds to animate a boring scene that's unnecessary to the flow of the story, and where else in the episode would that 30 seconds have come from?

The show takes tons of visual & narrative shortcuts to tell its story. We don't question how a digital clock appears on Stan's desk between one shot and the next in Boss Mabel. We don't question where Soos's Burrito Bites went before and after traveling into Stan's mind in Dreamscaperers. We don't question where the remains of Quentin Trembley's ripped pants vanish to in the crate after he tosses them aside. The only reason we question the duffel bag is because there's a way to weave it into the narrative to make a bad character look even worse; but I think it ignores the spirit and intent of the scene to treat that, and that alone, like it's indicative of Filbrick's character rather than indicative of the restraints of the cartoon medium.

I don't think he saw his kids as investments. I think, prior to discovering Ford could be worth a fortune, he saw his kids as his responsibility. It was his duty to get them to adulthood and make them into proper men. What we know about their upbringing is:

When he thought they were wusses, he sent them to boxing to toughen them up.

When he thinks Stan stole a gold chain from the pawn shop, he also berates him for stealing from other people, starting a crab-fighting ring, and "pickpocketing and monkeyshining." He's opposed to Stan committing illegal or dishonest acts even if they're profitable.

And when he kicks Stan out, yeah, he says Ford "was gonna be our ticket out of this dump," but he also says "All you ever do is lie and cheat, and ride on your brother's coattails."

Before Ford is revealed to be a genius, we have no evidence that Filbrick saw them as future moneymakers. And in fact, given how the show emphasizes how hard he is to impress and how newly impressed he is at Ford's genius, it seems like he DIDN'T previously see any such potential in his kids. This was a new development. Before that, we only know of two things he wanted out of his kids:

For them to be tough enough to protect themselves

For them to be honest, law-abiding, and hard-working

His dreams of making money off one of his kids lasted a few days tops—high school science fairs don't exactly last long. If he was hotheaded enough to kick out one of his kids for dashing some pie-in-the-sky dream that was only a few days old, then either they woulda been kicked out long before then, or they woulda almost been kicked out enough times that that would be their dominant impression of their dad that they'd report 40 years later, not "hard to impress." Yeah, he was mad he could've made a fortune and then didn't, but that alone wasn't the main motivation behind disowning Stan. He was taking out years of frustration with Stan all in one moment.

"All you ever do is lie and cheat" "This time you cost our family potential millions!"

You've been a bad kid and a troublemaker for a long time; this time, your behavior has impacted someone other than yourself—it's harmed your brother and your family—and I won't let you do it again.

(And this is pure headcanon/conjecture, so I'm keeping it as an aside—but I think there's something to his relationship with Caryn in all this. We know from how he treats Stan's lying that Filbrick highly values honesty. We know that Caryn is a pathological liar—it's one of the only things we know about her. We know from out-of-show interviews that Stan's "—the girl snuggles up next to you, next thing you know you gotta raise a kid, your life falls apart—" is him repeating something his father said. We know Filbrick sees their current living situation as a "dump," but lacks the financial means to get out of it. We know now the baby WAS intended to be Shermie, which makes a nearly 18 year gap before the Pines decided to have another kid. I think the twins were an accident, that Filbrick married Caryn out of a sense of duty to his sons and their mother, that he does love his family but still feels trapped; I think he hates that Caryn is such a liar, that it would have been a dealbreaker if there weren't kids involved, and that now he doesn't feel like there's much he can do about it because that's his wife; and I think that's a major motivating factor in his demanding honesty out of his sons—because he doesn't want them to turn out like their mother.)

To be clear—I don't think Filbrick is a good father. But in interpreting him as a bad father, I want to interpret him as the bad father he ACTUALLY IS, not make up some new, different bad father and paste it on top of his characterization. Sometimes fandom has a tendency to take a bad parent and stick entirely new bad parent traits on top of them, in a way that makes it seem like some fans think "well, if they're a bad parent, they MUST do THESE THINGS too, because ALL bad parents do that (and therefore, if they're not doing these things, they must not really be a bad parent)."

And at times I think it's important to hold the line. Based on what we know of him, Filbrick is bad enough to be a Bad Father even if he doesn't do XYZ that fandom assumes all bad fathers must do. Filbrick is bad enough to be a Bad Father even if he didn't see his kids as a way to make money.

I think he raised his boys the way he did because he thought that was the best thing for their future happiness—and he was wrong, and his ideas about manhood are outdated and toxic, and he was a bad father.

I think he saw them as his responsibility rather than as profit machines, and that he cared about their well-being—and his decision to express his caring through emotionally distant tough love was harmful and neglectful, and when he got angry he was verbally abusive, and he was a bad father.

I think he was devastated at the loss of potential millions not because his primary motive as a person is greed, but because his primary motive is being a good caretaker for his family, and his family was in a tough financial spot and that kind of money would turn all their lives around—and even though pinning his financial hopes on his son was a recent development, it was still an awful position to put his kid in, and he never should have done it, and he was a bad father.

I think he cared about his family MORE THAN their finances—but he still prioritized their finances too much, and in a moment of anger prioritized their finances more than one of his own sons, and he was a bad father.

I think kicking Stan out wasn't a consequence of thwarted greed, but of years of anger at Stan's delinquency, and that the issue wasn't the lost money but rather the fact that he thinks Stan deliberately harmed his brother for selfish reasons—and it was still a cruel thing to do and the man seriously needed some anger management classes, and he was a bad father.

He's a bad father even if his intentions are good. He's a bad father even if he cared about his sons. And that's why I'm insistent on maintaining his characterization that way—because it's worth remembering that a parent with good, caring intentions can still be bad, and their intentions don't excuse their actions.

[hotvintagepoll]

Propaganda

Deborah Kerr (Bonjour Tristesse, An Affair to Remember, The King and I)— For several decades she held the record for most Oscar nominations without a win (6 in total), and she was a prolific leading lady throughout the 40s and 50s. She's best known today for the romance An Affair to Remember with Cary Grant, and as the governess in The King and I. Many people have this erroneous perception of her as extremely prim, proper, and virginal, but this could not be further from the truth. When she first came to Hollywood under MGM she was typecast into boring decorative roles, but broke sexual boundaries for herself and Hollywood generally in From Here to Eternity, when she made out (horizontally!) with Burt Lancaster (on top of him!) in the famous Beach Scene. She went on to play many sexually conflicted women, a character type that would define most of her post- Eternity work. She continued to break Hays Code boundaries with Tea and Sympathy, which addresses homosexuality/homophobia head-on, and even did a topless scene in The Gypsy Moths 1969!! One of the only classic stars to do so. She deserves a more nuanced and frankly a hotter legacy than she currently has!!!

Ethel Merman (Anything Goes, Call Me Madam)— Possessed of a bold, brash voice, and an even bolder and brasher presence, Ethel Merman might be more well known for her stage roles, but she made several movies, and was bold and brash in them as well. Also I think if I don't submit her, she's going to come back and haunt me.

This is round 1 of the tournament. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. Please reblog with further support of your beloved hot sexy vintage woman.

[additional propaganda submitted under the cut]

Ethel Merman:

You've gotta love any woman who got typecast as lead-MILF

Deborah Kerr:

I think she was one of my first crushes before I realised I was bi in The King and I when I watched it as a kid honestly. The kissing scene in From Here to Eternity is iconic for a reason. Actually tried to learn the accents for the characters she was playing if they weren't English which is more than pretty much anyone else was doing then. Played very restrained characters who frequently seemed to be desperate not to be so restrained. Did horror movies without venturing into hagsploitation tropes. Gave Marni Nixon the credit she deserved for her share of the singing in The King and I.

Anne Larsen is a peak late 1950s bisexual with big MILF energy. Have you seen the behind the scenes pics of her wearing a suit?? Have you????? Vote Deb as Anne Larsen.

Nominated for an Oscar six (6) times and never won, but besides her having actual talent (hot), and besides her looking Like That (very hot, also beautiful), she was always playing women who are, like, crazy repressed. Which makes it fun and easy for me to read these characters as queer. Icon!!!! You know what's hot? Playing ambiguously gay in vintage Hollywood.

Her face and talent and body, yes, ofc, duh. But also!!! Her HANDS!!!! I may be but a simple lesbian, but she is the best hactor (hand actor) that ever lived and that's HOT! For propriety's sake I feel I must redact a large portion of my commentary on this subject. Anyway. She's hot in her most famous roles (mentioned above), and also some of her sexiest hacting is on display in An Affair to Remember (her hand on the bannister when Cary Grant kisses her off-screen??? HELLO???), Tea and Sympathy (when she's trying to persuade Tom not to go out and she keeps flexing her hands like she wants to reach out to him but can't??? ALLY BEHAVIOR! WE STAN!), and The Innocents (which opens and closes with extended shots of her hands bc director Jack Clayton was also an ally and he did that for ME). Much of her appeal also lies in the fact that she often played deeply repressed characters and you know what's hot? When those uptight characters finally unravel. It's sexy. It's cathartic. It's erotic. Plus, she's beautiful to look at in both black & white and technicolor, and the more of her films you see, the more you can't help but fall in love!

Literally is in thee most famously sexy scene of all time (or maybe just during the hays code era which is what we're talking about HELLO), which is the beach scene with Burt Lancaster in from here to eternity. To quote a tumblr post of a screen capture of a tweet of a video of joy behar on the view: "y'know, there used to be movies where they were kissing on the beach... From Here to Eternity. They're kissing-- Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr are Kissing on the Beach and then the WAVES crash!! You know exactly what they did!"

She might have a reputation of being chaste and virginal or whatever, but we all know it's the quiet ones who are certifiable FREAKS

[annakaspring]

Officially the longest rant I've ever posted

Snater mauraders fans literally being the most shallow people on earth.

I will see them saying Snape deserved to be targeted and bullied. And the reason is always the same.

"he was creepy" how was he creepy? "He was obsessed with Lily and possessive of her."

oh, you mean like how James threatened to physically assault Lily if she didn't go on a date with him while simultaneously bullying her friend? While Severus did as Lily asked and left her alone when she said their friendship was over.

"He was racist." No, comparing the word mudblood a fictional slur to a real life racial slur is so ignorant, problematic and also completely disregards that there could be actual racism in the Harry Potter universe. And Snape is not a pureblood in fact he is way more muggle born than half blood as he grew up in a muggle neighborhood, wearing muggle clothes. Is what Snape called Lily right? No. could she have still been hurt? Yes. But I see the same people who bash Snape, Stan Malfoy who is canonically a pureblood who hates muggle-borns. Like be so for fucking for real rn.

"He was a nazi" Again, comparing a fictional "cult" to real life devastating history is ignorant and frankly ridiculous. But let's just humor that idea for a moment. Then why do I see maurader fans idolizing characters like Barry Crouch Jr? Or Regulus Black? Who not only joined the death eaters just like Severus did but were privileged purebloods who unlike Severus had money, a proper home, family. And in Barty Jr's case he is literally canonically evil.

"He was a bully." So was James, so was Sirius.And both James and Sirius are canonically described as being obviously well loved and privileged while Snape "so obviously lacked" that. Severus had reasons to be cold, stand offish and rude. had a terrible home life, neglectful if not straight up abusive parents, a single friend, depressed and was poor. What was James's excuse?

And I will see ppl who loooove Draco Malfoy yet despise Snape. Draco Malfoy, who is repeatedly voiced his pureblood prejudice so much as saying he wished death upon Hermione Granger simply for her blood status, was a HUGE bully, surely bigger than Snape ever was if he did ever bully (he didn't). Severus Snape used a slur once, once when he was a child while he was being SA'd and regretted it so much he never used the word again. While Draco literally never even apologized for his fanatical white supremacist behavior. "Well he didn't want to kill Dumbledore" I'm sorry but being too cowardly to kill someone does not equal being a good person.

"Oh well they changed, they grew up and became better." Did they? Where's the proof? Where's the evidence? I never saw Sirius own up to his actions. Remus still excused his friends bullying. "Well actually Draco actually liked Hermione the whole time. And that's why he was so mean to her" So? If anything that makes even worse. If a guy wished me dead, was openly vile to I wouldn’t suddenly be okay with it because he was actually attracted to me the whole time.

So what arguments do the Snaters have left?

Nothing, absolutely zero justification other than shallow, half baked reasons.

Severus Snape commits the most unforgivable sin. Being poor, morally grey AND ugly.

Because being poor can be forgiven as long as you're hot i.e Remus Lupin. But forbid they actually show signs of their class. Being malnourished, having hand me clothes, not being able to have proper hygiene. These are all things that actually happen to severely lower class individuals. Being a pureblood snob can be forgiven as long as you're hot. Being actually evil with zero justification is forgiven as long as you're hot.

People will twist and headcanon characters we get two pages of information on into fully fleshed out people with intricate backstories and believable justification for all their evil behavior.

Meanwhile bashing Snape who is one the most complex, dark, interesting character in the series. All because Snape is "ugly".

Because god forbid a character does not fit their rigid beauty standards and is actually complex and human.

And we're not gonna get into how literally not once was Snape ever explicitly described as ugly or how Draco Malfoy in the books described as having a pointed, rat like face.

And just to clarity I'm not trying yuck anybody's yum. Love the characters you love, stan evil ones, ship all the characters you want. I do! I ship character who make absolutely no sense in canon. create intricate stories for background characters all you want That's what fandom is all about. But don't act you have an actual reason for hating Snape while simultaneously stanning Voldemort and Barty Crouch Jr.

Be straightforward and say you don't like him because he does not fit your rigid cookie cutter beauty standards and you have no compassion.

Cheers,

[beforeastorm]

We used to be a proper fandom (not really)

I'm not going to link or reference directly, because the claims have not been verified to any reasonable degree, but I have watched 911blr descend into... something... over the last couple of days because of a situation(s) involving truly horrendous fics, homicide-this-character accounts, and some pretty intense accusations about who (both specifically and as a group) is culpable for those behaviors. And I have some thoughts.

(Under the cut, because I ramble).

Desensitization and Escalation: The fics/account/posts/tweets didn't happen in a vacuum. They're, unfortunately, a natural evolution of what's been happening for months (before anyone ats me, on both/either side). It starts small: I hate so and so, I hate so and so's fans; so and so is the worst, so and so's fans are the worst. People become desensitized to it and then you're primed to escalate. THIS IS CLASSIC SOCIAL CONDITIONING. From I hate them, to someone should enact violence on them, to they deserve that violence, to I hope they die, to they have to die, etc.

I literally saw a tweet that stated something along the lines of "RT if you think we shouldn't consider (ship stans) humans". I'm sorry why are we questioning folk's humanity? About a television ship? The tweet did very well. Tons of likes and RTs. Anytime someone called them out for it, they were told to lighten up and learn how to take a joke. That it wasn't that serious. Well, here we are, a couple months later, and shit has gotten pretty serious now, eh?

And the longer in-groups permit this behavior, at any level, the more the cycle continues. And yes, it does need to be in-groups holding their own to account. And that's not always calling them out - especially if they're not in your circle. And not that you shouldn't call out behavior from the other side, but also - let's sweep our own kitchens before we call someone else's house a mess.

And, to be frank: both houses are messy so don't even.

And let me clarify by what I mean when I say holding people accountable. Because Tim Minear, to my knowledge, has not made any of us 9-1-1 fandom police, nor appointed a fandom inquisitorial squad. So you don't have to proverbially yell at someone to hold them accountable, though if you think they're open to a dialogue - then go for it. You can also choose not to engage/reblog/like/repost bad content; you can unfollow them, even if they make really cool art or write otherwise awesome fics or have really insightful takes 95% of the time. You can make a counterclaim or disavow a bad take; if it's someone in your circle by all means have a developmental conversation. The (ship) fandom would never! Yes they would. So would (other ship) fandom, and even (third ship) fandom and I've actually never met a toxic Bathena fan so go off kings (/gn) but there's probably one out there somewhere. Liking a ship isn't a vaccine to toxicity. Toxic, damaged people exist everywhere. They've existed since the dawn of time. I don't want to accuse anyone of being naive, but really? All this line of thinking does is create blind spots where we allow bad actors room and space to fester. We can, and should state that there's no space for this in the (ship) fandom, and anyone behaving in such a manner will face appropriate social sanctioning, up to and including ostracization. But to just flatly deny the possibility that someone on 'our side' might be bad is irresponsible.

The remedy is suffocation, not to ignore it: I get that you don't want to, to use fire metaphors because it's 9-1-1 after all, feed the flames by engaging with bad actors and giving them attention. Unfortunately, when you ignore a fire, it can spread unchecked.

Suffocate that motherfucker (metaphorically) and grab the burn kits. Starve them out. Unfollow, block - warn your friends - offer care to any affected. If it breaks ToS - report it. YOU SHOULD RESPOND, but you can choose to respond in ways that don't give bad actors the attention they may be craving.

This act was perpetuated by (ship) stans! I feel like I'm in an episode of Scooby Doo. It's not bad (ship) fans, it's (anti-that-ship) fans PRETENDING to be (ship) fans to make them look bad and sow chaos? RIP OFF THE MASK! Was it Agatha all along?

I do believe that happens. I also believe that not every single take that makes your preferred ship/fandom look bad is from a double agent. All pure, immediate, unequivocal denial and accusation does is provide cover and perpetuate the rot in that ship space. Before we immediately accuse the other side, we should show up with some goddamn receipts. (I have yet to see receipts).

And listen, people don't need to like each other, or even agree, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO OPEN AO3 WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT STUMBLING ACROSS UNTAGGED CSA, ESPECIALLY FOR MY HOMIES WHO ARE SURVIVORS, BECAUSE SOME JABRONI WENT "SHIP WARS RAH RAH!" AND DECIDED THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

At the end of the day - fandom should be joyful. If your entire experience has been reduced to bashing another ship, bashing characters, starting rumors about other fans, complaining about other fans/ships/characters, impersonating fans of ships you're against, or infiltrating 'enemy territory' like you're some kind of spy and not some overworked, underpaid 21st century serf trying to exist under the crushing, existential weight of our capitalist hellscape whose main form of escaping said hellscape is our weewoo show blorbos? Be so for real right now. It's giving Regina George. Why are you so obsessed with them? Choose to engage with joy (or alternatively, choose to engage in really sad fics if you need a good cry because that is fair and also valid).

Stormy out ✌️

[lenaboskow]

I can agree if there isn't a clear break in the finale fine. But honestly I'm tired of Buck Tommy shippers for one reason

I have been in this house for 6 years. Shipping a groundbreaking couple. 2 "straight " men. From similar but not similar family backgrounds and military backgrounds. Do one of the most masculine jobs out there. Coming out later in life. Raising a child together. Similar but also totally opposite personalities. The first slow burn queer couple that doesn't end in kill your gays.......

And I'm going to get lectures from Buck Tommy shippers that they are the groundbreaking ones. Please, you have been in my house for 2 months. Not to mention I can see Tommy's POV about his earlier behavior if they actually addressed it. Not in one conversation where he almost outs Buck but blames everyone else. Give him a decent back story to it and really apologize.

But sure.. It's me, hi I'm the problem it's me.. Not you guys who come here having watched one season and think in any way Tommy is superior to Eddie in Bucks life.

you're completely right.

watching the show since s1 and seeing all the bucktommy stans jump ship just because tommy showed up and kissed buck within two episodes is such a unique and frustrating experience and i--

i haven't said this in a while, but we, as a fandom, need to not settle for some half-baked ship who doesn't have any chemistry and where one emotionally harassed two out of the main five 118 members during the probie years, and has yet to have a proper redemption.

i know they get mad at us calling tommy a plot device, but tim himself called him that, so i have no issues with it. tommy is/soon to be was the method that they chose to give us bi buck, because eddie obviously still has a long way to go before he's ready to be with buck, and they knew the relationship wouldn't work if they were both struggling with figuring themselves out. tommy's just here to help buck understand himself better. i hope for buck's sake that it ends amicably and not with tommy getting mad because buck realizes he misunderstood his feelings.

[be-gay-cause-crime]

Little Burns (Stangst fic)

After an especially stressful week at the Stan O’ War, Stan starts to slip back into old habits. Ford starts to take notice of his brothers sudden changes in behavior.

TW for self harm and smoking

———

When he was on the road, Stan couldn’t shake off smoking, sure, he switched over to cigars after a while, but it wasn’t a habit that easily stopped, but it was the habit that branched off from that one that really stuck with him.

Sometimes he’d put out a cigarette on his arm by mistake, just a smidge too sleepy to accurately put it out on something without pain receptors, but after a while, he started doing it a little more often on purpose, he didn’t know why he did it, maybe it was a punishment, one more on top of being on the streets, maybe it was a distraction from whatever shitty situation he found himself in at the moment. But whatever the reason, he found a sick feeling of pleasure when he twisted the smoldering end against his wrist.

He’d given up the habit after he opened the Mystery Shack, after all, he had much more important matters to worry about, like scamming tourists and getting the portal up and running. He even started chewing nicotine gum after he learned that the twins would be visiting for that first summer. But now that he’s out on the open ocean with his twin, he can’t help but buy a pack of cigars if he sees them in port, why shouldn’t he? It’s a well-deserved treat for himself, he’s been pretty good at not burning himself after he was done smoking them, but every now and then he does it out of old habit, if he catches himself, he’ll curse himself for it, and put it out properly.

Last week was particularly stressful for them, the Stan O’ War got pretty beat-up in a cryptid chase, so they had to dock to get her fixed up. The two of them were staying at a shabby motel not far from the coast in a little nowhere town up in Alaska, if it weren’t for the constant snow, Stan would’ve been reminded of his time on the streets, staying in a motel like that, but he had his brother, and he wasn’t on the run from anything, so it was well and good, for now.

When they were in a place that just barely counted as the town proper, they restocked on supplies, making sure to get some jellybeans and toffee peanuts too. While Ford listed off different preservatives that might be interesting or useful, Stan took notice of a small smoke shop, a little odd out here, but he wasn’t complaining.

“Hey, I’m gonna go grab me some cigars, I’ll be right back,”

“Hm? Oh, yes, don’t go too far,” Ford replied, barely looking up from his list.

Stan made his way over, and decided to buy twelve, he still had about four left at the Stan O’ War, but he did deserve a little pick me up, after everything that happened last week. He met back up with Ford, got the rest of the restocking done, and they went back to the motel.

“Hey, I’m gonna smoke one of these, you wanna join?” Stan asked, he knew Ford didn’t smoke anymore, but it felt wrong to not offer.

“No thank you, one round of nicotine withdrawal is enough for one lifetime! You have fun with that though,” he said with a smile, he wasn’t able to smoke while he was in the portal, and he couldn’t necessarily prioritize his habits while Bill was making his life living hell. But when he got back, he didn’t start it up again, stating that he’d like to enjoy the rest of his life with a minimal amount of tar in his lungs, but he doesn’t mind if Stan continues.

“Will do, I’ll just be outside the door,” Stan stepped outside quickly, trying to keep as much of the cold air outside as he could. He leaned on he railings that lined the small hallway between all the doors and pulled out his lighter and a cigar. He stood out there for however long it took for his nose to start feeling numb, his smoke was almost out, so he decided to put it out.

He meant for it to go onto the wooden railing, he really did, but his hand was a touch too close. Stan felt it singe against the end of his wrist, “Shit,” he moved his hand away, he tried to put it out properly, on the railing, but his hands didn’t cooperate, they wouldn’t cooperate. He stared at the cigar, there were still a few embers left on the end, smoldering with a dark orange light.

He sighed and ended up tossing it on the ground, there was enough snow to put it out, it would be fine. Now that his second hand was free, he rubbed at the spot where the cigar pressed into his skin, “it was just once, and an accident at that, it’ll be fine,” he muttered to himself before turning the doorknob to let himself back into their room.

———

Here’s the Stan angst fic, as promised! I don’t know how many parts there will be, probably a minimum of three. Thank you for taking the time to read pt one!

[elliottshusband]

My theory(?) regarding the Stan Twins This may be obvious or overthinking, but i’ve had this in my head for a day while i was half awake.

I apologize if this comes off very off, im trying to explain my reasonings

VERY MINOR BOOK OF BILL SPOILERS; I ALSO HAVEN’T WATCHED GRAVITY FALLS FOR TWO YEARS I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE

MAY INCLUDE OFFSET RAMBLING MID THEORIZING, SUPER SORRY 90% OF THIS WAS WRITTEN AT 11 PM

Ford was more of a villain to Stanley than Bill was (to Stanley)

This is gonna be such a mouthful. Anywho, To start off, everyone knows it; Stanley is the adventurous free spirited twin. This is basically the root of his entire character. Stanfordwas always the geek-nerdy-know-it-all, and sometimes the “better Stanley” if you understand what I’m saying, both being treated much differently despite being twins, with Ford getting the good given to him in life, while Stanley on the orher hand was as said before

Free Spirited.

And despite all that, all he wanted to be with was his brother. Given so, Stanley was given a rough life after being a teenager doing teenager shit, but doing one wrong costing Fords chance of a prestige college and a comfortable life for Stanley.

No one bats an eye when the smart kid does anything, not even when he disappears for 30 years.

The dumb free-spirit though? Kicked to the curb, given a hard life, and the relationship with his family ruined.

After Ford’s machine was broken, Stan was kicked out when all he really wanted was to be with his brother, since no one really thought he (Stanley) would be in college. And yet the “barely made it out” one is the one who saved his brother after so many years.

And what DIDNT he get from that?

A proper thank you.

It may or may not be well known about Ford being a near-canon person with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder), due to behaviors and such he has expressed throughout the last season. Some factors could include the fact that Stanford had developed a dependency to alcohol during his inter-dimensional travels, yet it’d been seen on the website as well that Stanley also has some attachment to alcohol But to Stanleys dismay, not ONE legitimate sorry was expressed through the series. All he got when he finally brought back his brother was a slap to the face and a reprimanding, as if he didn’t want to be saved. This also factors in for the final episode.

Thank you (for no thanks)

Stanley, even in the last episode, never got a legit, from heart “thank you” from his own brother, Im genuinely not 100% about this part so im sorry. But once again, Weither it be for saving Ford, or literally sacrificing himself to destroy Bill. Stan never got the thank you he wanted.

Imagine, all you get for saving your beloved brother is a slap to the face and everything you remembered to be gone.

Extras

Despite the fact that Ford was gone for 30 years, he acted more like a “friend” towards the twins than an actual responsible figure. While Stan on the other hand, was “portrayed” as a con artist, cheap and (don’t know what else to use) money hungry(?), he did everything in his power to save the teins at every chance he could. Hell, to prove that he was so much better than he was portrayed to be, the final battle scene in Weirdmageddon 3.

Imagine being offered every single thing you could ever have, Money, power, but you decide to still destroy him, just to save the people you loved

Stan was a hero. Ford was the villain to Stan.

(Heres the original theory I wrote at 11 PM the other night inna discord server so it makes more sense)

ford was more of a villain to stannley than bill was to him in my honest opinion. emotionally and mentally for the most part.

yes bills a demon yes he literally tortured the shit out of ford but nobody bat an eye when stanley was literally thrown out, even though he was being a teenager doing teenager shit, always trying to stand up for himself when ford was acting out against him and just ford being a total narcissistic asshole towards him and never saying THANK YOU for saving him, always pointing out what he had done wrong (like fixing the portal or sm) while stan just wanted his brother back.

ford was an emotional villain towards stanley and stanley just let it happen. it could be seen as “how families act” but yet even in the last episode, ford once again was being an asshole and yet everyone blamed stanley for breaking out at him when stan was just seemed to be fed up.

despite all the times stanley messed up, he had always been the one with a free spirit, a loving one too. he spent 30 years fixing the portal up for his brother, was actually there for mabel and dipper multiple times (like the episode where Gideon gets ahold of the shack) and was actually caring, and yet ford was just, there for a bit before ultimately destroying everything again for Stanley.

but he did have a little bit of sympathy near the end for stan, upset when he had to erase his memories.

this may just be some stupid shitass rambling but its half past 11 and i need to brain spew on discord

hope yall enjoy

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[princeescaluswords]

I like Stiles as a character, but I often get frustrated by fanon diverging from canon, and the worst of it to me is the ways that Lydia treated by Stiles - as something he deserves, most notably when she kisses Scott and he's angry, which the fandom holds against Scott because apparently Lydia making choices means Scott is a bad friend - or in the scene when Lydia is high after the werewolf attack at the movie rental place, and the only thing that keeps Stiles from doing [something] is that Lydia calls out for Jackson rather than him.

I think Stiles is kind of a jerk, and I like him because of it, but the fanon Stiles used as a weapon to bludgeon canon Scott is... the dumbest thing in the fandom

Have you ever seen the frequent criticism on this site that certain people should have paid more attention in English class? This criticism arises from posts like the one I saw today, where a person was confessing that "people think Stiles is evil because he almost made out with Lydia while she was drugged up." I don't think Stiles is evil for doing that; it sounds like you don't think Stiles is evil. I've never actually heard anyone call him evil for almost giving into temptation. (The closest I've ever come to calling Stiles's evil is his behavior in Lies of Omission (5x09) and Status Asthmaticus (5x10) and I don't even go that far). What we do recognize that what he did in Lydia's bedroom in The Tell (1x05) wasn't the right way to behave.

Stiles's desire for Lydia is real and natural; it was his inability to recognize and respect proper boundaries that almost created a very bad situation. He did pull away when Lydia said Jackson's name; the realization that she was confused about who he was and not secretly attracted to him reminded him that his behavior wouldn't be the fulfillment of his desire but him taking advantage of her. It's a good scene that tells us about Stiles's weaknesses but also about his strengths: beyond the insecurity that leads him to fixate on the most unattainable girl in school and his constant disregard for proper boundaries, Stiles is a fundamentally decent human being.

So why do I, personally, bring up this scene when talking about Teen Wolf a lot? Stiles-stans (who are not really fans of Stiles but fans of Fanon Stiles or, more accurately, Self-Insert with a Stiles Name Tag) like to go on and on about how deficient a person Scott McCall, the lead protagonist, is because he was "obsessed" with Allison and lacrosse. They argue this to say why they 'dislike' him, but what they actually mean is that he shouldn't be the lead protagonist. But they never seem to remember Stiles's behavior when it comes to Lydia (or Derek's behavior when it comes to Paige or Liam's behavior when it comes to Hayden for that matter).

My position -- and I think the production shared this position -- is that Scott's desire to have a girlfriend and make first line on the lacrosse team is real and natural. However, his attempts to avoid recognizing and coping with the consequences of Peter's vicious assault could lead to very bad situations unless he took responsibility. Scott had to learn how to anchor himself -- which he did! He had to make sure he put what was truly important ahead of his relationship with Allison -- which he did!

I have always maintained that Teen Wolf is a bildungsroman, which is a story about children becoming adults. Throughout the series, Scott's growth is primary; he evolves from an asthmatic loser who feels like he sits on the sidelines of life into a True Alpha werewolf leading a war against those who would murder supernatural creatures out of self-interest. But he's not the only one to grow. Allison had her own story; Lydia had her own story; Derek had his own story (one of the best redemption arcs ever); and Stiles had his version of that story!

The problem is that there are a lot of people who didn't watch Teen Wolf as a story, but rather as raw material. They swooped in and picked up the parts that they wanted, like vultures devouring a carcass. They wanted Stiles and <insert white male love interest here> to be the focus of the show, as they were the focus of their interests, but they could do without the part where Stiles struggles to grow up. In response, they selected only the parts that fit their agenda. Thus, Scott becomes dull, obsessive, stupid, with a foolish no-kill rule, and an unearned hostility toward the Hale Family whom he shamelessly usurps, even though none of that description is remotely true. On the other hand, Stiles becomes the should-be valedictorian of his class, a master archmage, and a ruthless anti-hero ready to kill anyone to protect which ever white male character he loves this week, even though none of that description is remotely true.

Fandom, in the name of their own enjoyment, has boiled their understanding of the story down to "I don't like Scott" and "Stiles is not evil!" Nuanced takes like "Stiles had the courage to cross boundaries to protect others but that tendency also led him into some problematic actions" and "Scott didn't start out a heroic protagonist; he only embraced the mantle when he realized that the threats he had to face didn't care that he and his friends were teenagers." become difficult for them to understand and unpleasant for them to process, because they only really want Power Fantasy Stiles and Bad Friend Scott. Those bits and pieces fit into the pre-existing tropes that bring them pleasure. It's the limitations that frustrate them, not Teen Wolf's.

[lemonhemlock]

I saw a comment that really hit the nail on the head regarding a lot of the fandom in both ASOIAF/HOTD spaces. Basically, this comment said that a lot of Dany/Rhaenyra/Targ stans don't understand that targ women can both be oppressed and also oppressors. They literally view Westeros in this lens that the Worst Thing That Can Ever Happen to someone is misogyny, and yes GRRM's ahistorical levels of misogyny imbued in his work don't help here, and that nothing else can come close lol. They don't really get class dynamics, lesser nobles, etc. When you're the crown princess of the realm you have immense power, but also responsibility which, yes, includes not openly cuckolding your spouse and having obvious bastards you try to put into the succession lol. They very much think that every targ women could do whatever she wanted with her immensely privileged and pampered position as a royal and if anyone says anything, well, it's misogyny. It's a deeply unannounced, ahistorical way to look at this series.

Your comment in one of your other anons where you said 'are you really sexually liberated if you are causing pain to others in your vicinity' was funny to me because targ stans unironically would say 'yes.' They are stuck in this modern sensibility that romantic/sexual freedom is the number one civil liberty and anything a character does in pursuit of it is fine, even at the expense of others, and if anything bad happens as a result, well that's just the Patriarchy's fault. It's a fundamental difference in thinking that I don't think can ever be bridged because they are incapable of not projecting modern values. They truly believe that targ women can be privileged, pampered, politically and socially powerful, yet not be beholden to any of the traditions, duties, or responsibilities even with the most, like, basic decorum expected of royal and any calling out of this behavior is just misogyny lmao.

It's just so stupid lmao. Imagine if people had said that Queen Elizabeth II, one of the most rich, powerful, and privileged women in the world for literal decades was 'oppressed' because she couldn't have obvious affairs or take official mistresses or boytoys and have bastard children like her male forefathers did and blame that on misogyny lmao. It's literally the same thought process but these people cannot put two and two together if their lives depended on it.

^^^^ you did it, anon. you condensed targ stans to their essence 😅

some of them act as if being monarch should mean doing exactly what you want at all times and any kind of suggestion that immense privilege comes at the price of great responsibility automatically translates to misogyny. god forbid we put some restriction on "absolute power" and make it less absolute.

also in regards to sexual freedom and their inability to imagine a life without it. you live in the 21st century!! not only that you have recognised rights enshrined by law, but you also have modern medicine!! you have antibiotics, contraceptives, safe abortion, emergency services, surgeons, you can book an appointment with a doctor if you're feeling unwell etc. look me in the eye and tell me that if all of those were taken away overnight you'd continue to be your sexually liberated self and risk dying painfully of an STD in the name of love.

of course there are religious and sexist dimensions to restricting women's sexuality, there is no point in pretending otherwise, but who would really want their spouse to risk infecting them with whatnot in the name of sexual freedom? it's equally unhelpful in pretending there's not an aspect of public health in encouraging behaviours like chastity, monogamy and being faithful to your spouse.

again, this is not to say that it was all good and proper to be like that and what a time of pure morals we left behind in the olden days. it's to say that those times truly sucked for a lot of people, sometimes because of reasons they had no control over, and that they often had to choose between options that all sucked in some way

[ckret2]

The Shermie thing feels more convoluted than just having him be a teen parent tbh

haha yeah it sure does. :) it's convoluted as fuck.

... i was gonna leave it at that but I just couldn't.

however, "the teen parent child of a teen parent with very poor & very strict parents is making the kind of money to afford a 2 story house in Piedmont Fucking California" is pretty damn improbable.

Dipper & Mabel give off "comfortably middle class" vibes; not "shocked and relieved to find themselves unexpectedly middle class" vibes. they reached their social class somehow.

they don't give off the vibes of children whose mother may have been knocked up in eighth grade. They don't feel like they were learning to walk and talk while their parents were still minors and their grandfather was not yet 30. They don't feel like they grew up in a household that had the strain of finding a way to make enough money and get a proper education and get a job that can support a family of 4 before even graduating high school.

If Mabel were the product of two generations of teen parents, I feel like the family around her would be a LOT more alarmed at how eager she is to get a boyfriend the minute she hits puberty. If their parents were 15 when Dipper & Mabel were born, Mabel's potentially less than a year and a half away from the age her mom was when she got pregnant with twins. Do you not think that would be reflected in how her brother & uncle view her crushes and how they talk to her about it.

Dipper's crush on Wendy would be more worrying. Never mind a whole road trip around being taught the art of picking up as many chicks as possible as fast as possible.

Even as loose a caretaker as Stan is, for their own sakes he'd be a lot more concerned about budding crushes if his baby brother & niece/nephew had suffered the consequences of starting families in ninth fucking grade.

Mabel's dad got the t-shirt she currently sleeps in at a conference he went to because of his computer job in the 90s. So, the computer job he had when he was, what, 14??

'Teen parents' was never part of the show's authorial intent and it FEELS it.

I can and will accept a whole lot of silly bullshit out of a cartoon's magic, especially the Silly Bullshit Magic Cartoon. I'm not gonna accept something that makes the characters' behaviors and personalities ring hollow.

in conclusion: I don't give a shit how convoluted a silly magical aging explanation invented solely as an excuse to dismiss the "how old is Shermie" problem is. The explanation exists for two reasons:

to communicate that no we're not going to invent a never-seen mystery elder brother, yes the baby is Shermie, and no we're not going to shove in a double teen pregnancy plotline that wreaks havoc with the intended vibe the family gives off.

to clown around a little with the absurdity, because the writers' not paying attention to the timeline created a situation where there is no non-absurd solution.

[hotvintagepoll]

Propaganda

Deborah Kerr (Bonjour Tristesse, An Affair to Remember, The King and I)— For several decades she held the record for most Oscar nominations without a win (6 in total), and she was a prolific leading lady throughout the 40s and 50s. She's best known today for the romance An Affair to Remember with Cary Grant, and as the governess in The King and I. Many people have this erroneous perception of her as extremely prim, proper, and virginal, but this could not be further from the truth. When she first came to Hollywood under MGM she was typecast into boring decorative roles, but broke sexual boundaries for herself and Hollywood generally in From Here to Eternity, when she made out (horizontally!) with Burt Lancaster (on top of him!) in the famous Beach Scene. She went on to play many sexually conflicted women, a character type that would define most of her post- Eternity work. She continued to break Hays Code boundaries with Tea and Sympathy, which addresses homosexuality/homophobia head-on, and even did a topless scene in The Gypsy Moths 1969!! One of the only classic stars to do so. She deserves a more nuanced and frankly a hotter legacy than she currently has!!!

Hend Rostom (Cairo Station, Eshaat Hob)— Egyptian movie star called the "Marilyn Monroe of the East", need anyone say more

This is round 2 of the tournament. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. Please reblog with further support of your beloved hot sexy vintage woman.

[additional propaganda submitted under the cut.]

Hend Rostrom:

Deborah Kerr:

I think she was one of my first crushes before I realised I was bi in The King and I when I watched it as a kid honestly. The kissing scene in From Here to Eternity is iconic for a reason. Actually tried to learn the accents for the characters she was playing if they weren't English which is more than pretty much anyone else was doing then. Played very restrained characters who frequently seemed to be desperate not to be so restrained. Did horror movies without venturing into hagsploitation tropes. Gave Marni Nixon the credit she deserved for her share of the singing in The King and I.

Anne Larsen is a peak late 1950s bisexual with big MILF energy. Have you seen the behind the scenes pics of her wearing a suit?? Have you????? Vote Deb as Anne Larsen.

Nominated for an Oscar six (6) times and never won, but besides her having actual talent (hot), and besides her looking Like That (very hot, also beautiful), she was always playing women who are, like, crazy repressed. Which makes it fun and easy for me to read these characters as queer. Icon!!!! You know what's hot? Playing ambiguously gay in vintage Hollywood.

Her face and talent and body, yes, ofc, duh. But also!!! Her HANDS!!!! I may be but a simple lesbian, but she is the best hactor (hand actor) that ever lived and that's HOT! For propriety's sake I feel I must redact a large portion of my commentary on this subject. Anyway. She's hot in her most famous roles (mentioned above), and also some of her sexiest hacting is on display in An Affair to Remember (her hand on the bannister when Cary Grant kisses her off-screen??? HELLO???), Tea and Sympathy (when she's trying to persuade Tom not to go out and she keeps flexing her hands like she wants to reach out to him but can't??? ALLY BEHAVIOR! WE STAN!), and The Innocents (which opens and closes with extended shots of her hands bc director Jack Clayton was also an ally and he did that for ME). Much of her appeal also lies in the fact that she often played deeply repressed characters and you know what's hot? When those uptight characters finally unravel. It's sexy. It's cathartic. It's erotic. Plus, she's beautiful to look at in both black & white and technicolor, and the more of her films you see, the more you can't help but fall in love!

Literally is in thee most famously sexy scene of all time (or maybe just during the hays code era which is what we're talking about HELLO), which is the beach scene with Burt Lancaster in from here to eternity. To quote a tumblr post of a screen capture of a tweet of a video of joy behar on the view: "y'know, there used to be movies where they were kissing on the beach... From Here to Eternity. They're kissing-- Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr are Kissing on the Beach and then the WAVES crash!! You know exactly what they did!"

She might have a reputation of being chaste and virginal or whatever, but we all know it's the quiet ones who are certifiable FREAKS

[ouatsnark]

Saw a swan queen fanpage saying the shit she made up in her head few months ago, that’s what she said: "i gotta be so real here , hook is probably the worst character ouat ever introduced , even when he and emma weren't together . his entire character is based on making gross , misogynistic r * pe jokes about women and acting like a chauvinistic pig . not a single likeable thing on him ."

Putting aside the fact that Hook never made rape jokes...

I've said this before and I will say it again: Hook's 300 year old cockiness is supposed to be funny when put up against a modern day woman. And Emma responds to him how she should respond to him: she kicked his ass. So did David. He was not suppose to be "likeable" when he was a villain...

Regina wasn't suppose to be "likeable" either. I have no issues with Regina when she was the villain. Because she was the villain and was suppose to be vile! I started having issues later on in S1 when it became apparent they were going to retcon her without giving her a proper redemption (began blaming all other characters for her actions).

It's honestly aggravating how blind Regina stans are about her. How is VILLAIN Hook's behavior worse than Villain Regina being an actual rapist? She tried to rape David too. But it's 100% acceptable to them when Regina does it because she's a woman. They complain about Hook's behavior but Regina is over there mentally abusing Henry but they twist it around to make it Emma and Henry's fault and Regina into their victim. Regina is 100% not likeable for the entire series if you're being honest about her. At least Hook changes. She doesn't. She continues to be a toxic bully to her victims.

[horizon-verizon]

Alicent would HATE Anne Boleyn, a reformist who helped instigate the break from Rome and the Catholic church, and would call her the “concubine”, “whore”, she-devil”, “Jezebel”. Alicent would call Elizabeth a “bastard” and would support Katherine of Aragon, the pious, loyal and dutiful wife, a daughter of Isabella the Catholic.

Anne was everything that the ideal woman at that time wasn’t meant to be. She wasn’t submissive, she wasn’t meek, she wasn’t somebody who withheld her emotions, she was bold, she was very outspoken, she was emotionally demonstrative, probably emotionally sort of rather immoderate and rather extreme and not at all retiring, very assertive. And I think ultimately somebody who wanted to be in control of her own destiny; in that way makes her quite modern. I love her speech at her trial, in which she describes her one “crime” as not having shown Henry enough “humility”. I think that’s an extraordinary, “feminist” insight for a woman of her time. “I confess I have had jealous fancies and suspicions of him, which I had not discretion enough, and wisdom, to conceal at all times”, she recognized that she had transgressed against the norms of wifely behavior, that she didn’t remained in her proper place. To describe her as a feminist would be an anachronism, but she did step over the ever-moving line that marked the boundary of the comfort zone for men of her era, stepping right into the epicenter of politics during a volatile, dangerous time.

What’s up with Alicent’s stans trying to force nonsensical parallels between her and controversial & challenging women (Anne Boleyn, Medea, Clytemnestra, etc) ? Who’s next, Scarlett O’Hara, Anna Karenina, Hester Prynne ? I thought Alicent was the Virgin Mary who never did anything wrong and whose only character trait is suffering.

Answer to this post?

Again, haven't gone into any real depth with Anne Boleyn, but these sound convincing from what I do know of her. You really got me with the supporting Catherine of Aragon bit, because...whoo, Alicent would.

[terukotime]

Hihi guys. I don't necessarily like to engage in fandom "discourse", which I don't really even know if that's the proper term to use in this case, but in regards to DRDTDev's response to a confession on the DRDT Confessions account (I posted a reblog with a response to it directly here, in case you're curious), I want to say something on the situation revolving around the OP of that confession.

I agree that the confession itself was obviously harmful, if unintentionally, and that it was poorly-worded, and overall would have been something better kept to themselves. However, I acknowledge that the anon of the confession is only human, and we all have made mistakes without the judgment or maturity needed to understand the repercussions of it. So I ask to everyone who has been harassing that anon (who has come out on a burner account admitting to being the OP of that confession and apologizing), to please stop.

I 100% agree that the confession made was, in the long run, hurtful and (for lack of a better term cause it's currently 5am as I'm writing this) tone-deaf. But I do sympathize with the anon because I can understand where they were coming from with what they said, though I still disagree with how it was said, and I don't think it should've been said at all.

But to those who have gone out of their way to say some absolutely atrocious stuff to that person, that is extremely out of line. People have said that the OP is a coward for not having posted it non-anonymously, called them horrible names, claimed that they aren't even really sorry, and other abhorrent things. I do understand the anger, but the actions some people have taken against this person are incredibly out of line and not okay.

I understand that this is a fandom of predominantly minors, and I am not a minor myself, so the levels of emotional maturity of many people in this fandom differ vastly. So I won't say anything harmful back to those who have harassed the anon of that confession. But I will say once again that behavior like that is unacceptable, and though you are trying to be in defense of DRDTDev, this is likely not what they want at all, either. You don't need to say such cruel and terrible things about someone who you don't even know who made a mistake, has owned up to it publicly, and has apologized for it. Being upset is one thing. Taking it out on the OP and acting like this is somehow going to be the downfall of the DRDT fandom is in an entire other universe of being another thing.

So please, let the takeaway of this situation be that we all need to be kinder, more mindful, and more respectful to not only DRDTDev but each other within this community. The immediate jump to hostility from some people is both disappointing and disgusting and is not at all how we should be reacting to this situation. Overall, we should be showing DRDTDev our support, our love and appreciation to them and all that they do, NOT going at each other's throats about this and only further proving that DRDTDev has a reason to be afraid of us.

That being said, I want to take this moment to promote @nicohakobyan's idea for a #drdtdevappreciation event, of which I will definitely be partaking in. It's something I think is very much needed at this time, and will be a great way to show our respect and admiration towards the creator, and I highly encourage everyone to do the same!

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this little PSA, as I feel like this desperately needed to be said before it continues to get out of hand.

Sincerely, the Certified Teruko (and DRDT as a whole) Stan™,

Giselle 💖