#proof-text fallacy

[deus-ex-mona]

look at these images that are seemingly unrelated to each other. what do you see?

[lovebecomeshim]

Gosh sometimes I see people on this site say things on behalf of Christians pertaining to what we believe that are just so utterly wrong and contrary to the Bible and get deeply exhausted

[lovemyromance]

Let's talk about Canon Evidence vs. Foreshadowing vs. Extrapolation

Long post ahead!

I think in this fandom, there's logical fallacies everywhere from each side when we look at what we're using as proof for our respective ships.

So let's talk about the varying levels of "proof" I've come across:

Canon Evidence: Text that is physically in the book. Something I can look up, has a page number, something SJM has literally written in her books. This includes screenshots of text. This is the most credible evidence of what is currently going on in the story.

Foreshadowing: Often a combination of canon text and interpretation from the reader. Forms an assumption of what could potentially happen based off something SJM wrote in the text and what it symbolizes.

Extrapolation/Theory: One step further than foreshadowing, this is an additional assumption based on what what the reader believes canon text could be foreshadowing/implying.

Now let's look at some examples of this, using some of the arguments I've seen used in this fandom:

Example 1: Elains' Black Dress

Canon Evidence: Cassian says Elain in black was ridiculous. It leeched the brightness from her face. And wearing black, no matter how much she claimed to be a part of this court, sucked the life from her.

Cassian is not saying Elain does not belong in the NC. He is not saying the NC itself sucked the life from her. Aside from the fact that the canon text clearly states even though the cruelty of Hewn City troubled Elain, she had not hesitated to come and declared she was a part of this court - Cassian is focusing on how the black, modest dress, made Elain look plain/leeched of color. This observation is further enforced because we as readers know Elain was made to look plain so Nesta could stand out for Eris.

That is all the canon text states.

Now let's look at this argument, and how it's often used by anti-Elriels for foreshadowing purposes:

Cassian saying Elain looks bad in black is often used as evidence of this argument that "Elain does not belong in the NC". That is not the case, as we can see that canon text did not state that.

If you add in personal interpretation, at most, this observation from Cassian can be considered foreshadowing that Elain does not belong in the NC.

Now let's look at this argument and how it's mainly used as an extrapolation/theory these days:

Let's go with the assumption that:

1. Cassian says Elain looks bad in black, it sucks the life from her (Canon Evidence)

+

2. Elain looking bad in black implies that the night court is not where she belongs (foreshadowing)

Again, at most, the logical conclusion would be Elain might leave the NC.

To say that "Cassian says Elain looks bad in black, that implies she does not belong in the NC, therefore she will end up with Lucien in a different court" is a major extrapolation.

In the text, Cassian doesn't even mention Lucien. Nor does he mention anything that could symbolize or connect to Lucien. He doesn't mention any other court or home that could even tie back to Lucien. Elain has not hinted at a relationship or positive feelings for Lucien.

Even if you say that Cassian's statement is foreshadowing Elain leaving the NC, that does not imply she will leave and go straight into Lucien's arms or be at his side in Day/Spring.

Therefore is no logical reason to be using this particular observation from Cassian as an argument for the Elucien ship. It is not evidence, it is not foreshadowing - it is extrapolation.

Now let's look at a different example. And in an effort to be unbiased, I am purposefully picking a more obscure example for Elriel.

Example 2: The Wooden Rose

Canon Evidence: Nesta places a wooden rose on the mantel, half hidden by shadows, next to a figurine of a primal goddess - perhaps even the Mother herself.

Foreshadowing:

In this series, Elain has always been associated with flowers, in particular, a rose. Azriel has always been associated with shadows.

In the BC, we see mention of their interaction in the dead of night, "Where only the mother may witness them" (Canon)

Nesta placing the Rose figurine (Elain), half hidden by shadows (Azriel) onto the mantel next to a figurine of a goddess (The Mother) could foreshadow a further connection or relationship between them.

Extrapolation:

It is not an extrapolation because there has been repeated symbolism with Azriel, Elain, and the Mother. It is also not canon evidence of their relationship, because it does not say that in the text either.

An example of an extrapolation would be if Elriels used this to signify that "Elriel has a bond given by the Mother". That would be an argument that takes it another step past foreshadowing, and two steps past actual canon evidence.

And I want to make sure people understand that extrapolation is basically theory. It is not proof of a ship.

The reason I ship Elriel is because when I read the books, I found only canon evidence and foreshadowing of Elriel attraction/mutual pining.

With Elucien, the only canon evidence that might signify an endgame pairing is that they are mates. And that might be enough for some people, but it was not enough for me.

More often than not, even the "foreshadowing" Eluciens claim to have is merely extrapolation/theory. There is no foreshadowing of an existing or future relationship with them - unless you count the foreshadowing of Elain rejecting the bond.

Simply put, canon evidence is the only real proof of a pairing (which, Elriel does have from the Azriel Bonus chapter). Foreshadowing can be brought up, but it has a degree of personal interpretation involved as well. Extrapolations are further removed from the category of evidentiary support, as they are rooted in theory rather than in text.

[st-dionysus]

Genuinely don't mean this in a negative sense, I'm actually just curious. Stating this first as I have trouble with written tone and like making my intent clear-

Why do you acknowledge/have conversations with transandrophobic people who reply to your posts? From my understanding it seems to make you quite angry(?) and I don't understand the goal of doing so, especially when the difference between your irl and online community interactions seems to be so stark regarding the levels of bigotry you face (from what you've shared on your blog).

No worries if you don't want to respond for whatever reason either

Hello!

I don't understand what made you come to the conclusion that the levels of bigotry I face in real life are lesser than that of the ones I face online, it is the opposite - in real life I have to face the material consequences of transphobia, transandrophobia, bioessentialism, misogyny, racism, capitalism, and a wide variety of other intersecting issues.

Online I have to face mean words (which are sometimes death/rape threats, triggering content, and pedojacketing or other types of "callout posts" - but ultimately, they are just words).

What I do have Irl, is a healthy support group and community through found family and friends that make the levels of bigotry I face worth facing. Having the privilege of a strong community of trans friends in real life is also what allows for the online harassment to be "just words" - I have a community offline, which not everyone does (Which is why online harrasment can be deadly, I do not want to dismiss the amount of harm online harassment can cause).

I do however, talk more about the support and community I have in my personal life, then I do about how I'm personally facing a lot of discrimination and difficulties on a daily basis, because it's important to share with people that community, intersection, and love is always possible and worth living and fighting for. I'm a firm believer that love and community are among the most important parts of life.

(I do also talk about the material effects of transandrophobia pretty frequently, since it's a pretty important aspect of discussing it.)

As for why I interact with the people who say mean words online, there are a few reasons;

I think they might genuinely be confused or do not have malicious intent. (I am often incorrect.) Sometimes when people don't understand something, they lash out this is even easier to do online when you don't have another human being standing in front of you, but instead have a wall of text. Sometimes, I interact with people to try and explain my point of view and sometimes I'm an asshole when I do that, because it's easy to be an asshole when you're facing a wall of text and not another person. That being said, often I'm just trying to get a point across. I've have a lot of friends who've been assholes to me and then helped me learn and grow.

I am documenting arguments, fallacies, and harrasment directed at trans men. A very common argument against aknowledging transandrophobia and the harm it does is "I don't believe you, I've never seen someone do or say that about a trans man, you're lying for attention". I can direct those people to proof that says otherwise. I can also use this documentation when discussing transandrophobia and the shapes that it can take in activist and academic settings or when discussing with friends and found family or younger trans men who reach out to me online, I can use it to educate how these arguments form and how to cope with them, when they are directed at you. It's a "know your enemy" situation, and in this case it's "Know the arguments that will be used against you and prepare for them cause they won't always be online"

Some of them are really stupid, it's funny to point at them and go "wow, that's really stupid" and it gives other people the chance to go "God, that is really stupid, I am going to block this person before they can be really stupid in my notes or inbox".

I typically block people after one or two interactions if it's clear that they are being malicious on purpose, cause I'm not actually interested in wasting time, I just want to put their ass on blast first. They said something publicly, and I'm sharing what they said with the context they said it to me in, so other people can block them. This means I can avoid perpetuating the flaws in callout posts and block lists that are just a list of urls followed by "trust me bro, these are bad people!!!".

Thank you for the ask and I hope I was able to answer your question.

[rockislandadultreads]

Book Recommendations: New Nonfiction eAudiobooks on Libby

Looking for free access to eBooks or eAudiobooks? Check out Libby, a service from the Rock Island Public Library (RIPL) that can be accessed with your RIPL card number! You can log in to Libby through our website or download it as an app from the Apple Store or Google Play Store.

In the Shadow of the Mountain by Silvia Vasquez-Lavado

Endless ice. Thin air. The threat of dropping into nothingness thousands of feet below. This is the climb Silvia Vasquez-Lavado braves in her page-turning, pulse-raising memoir following her journey to Mount Everest.

A Latina hero in the elite macho tech world of Silicon Valley, privately, she was hanging by a thread. Deep in the throes of alcoholism, hiding her sexuality from her family, and repressing the abuse she'd suffered as a child, she started climbing. Something about the brute force required for the ascent—the risk and spirit and sheer size of the mountains and death's close proximity—woke her up. She then took her biggest pain as a survivor to the biggest mountain: Everest.

"The Mother of the World," as it's known in Nepal, allows few to reach her summit, but Silvia didn't go alone. She gathered a group of young female survivors and led them to base camp alongside her. It was never easy. At times hair-raising, nerve-racking, and always challenging, Silvia remembers the acute anxiety of leading a group of novice climbers to Everest's base, all the while coping with her own nerves of summiting. But, there were also moments of peace, joy, and healing with the strength of her fellow survivors and community propelling her forward.

Under the Skin by Linda Villarosa

In 2018, Linda Villarosa's New York Times Magazine article on maternal and infant mortality among black mothers and babies in America caused an awakening. Hundreds of studies had previously established a link between racial discrimination and the health of Black Americans, with little progress toward solutions. But Villarosa's article exposing that a Black woman with a college education is as likely to die or nearly die in childbirth as a white woman with an eighth grade education made racial disparities in health care impossible to ignore.

Now, in Under the Skin, Linda Villarosa lays bare the forces in the American health-care system and in American society that cause Black people to “live sicker and die quicker” compared to their white counterparts. Today's medical texts and instruments still carry fallacious slavery-era assumptions that Black bodies are fundamentally different from white bodies. Study after study of medical settings show worse treatment and outcomes for Black patients. Black people live in dirtier, more polluted communities due to environmental racism and neglect from all levels of government. And, most powerfully, Villarosa describes the new understanding that coping with the daily scourge of racism ages Black people prematurely. Anchored by unforgettable human stories and offering incontrovertible proof, Under the Skin is dramatic, tragic, and necessary reading.

River of the Gods by Candice Millard 

For millennia the location of the Nile River’s headwaters was shrouded in mystery. In the 19th century, there was  a frenzy of interest in ancient Egypt. At the same time, European powers sent off waves of explorations intended to map the unknown corners of the globe – and extend their colonial empires.

Richard Burton and John Hanning Speke were sent by the Royal Geographical Society to claim the prize for England. Burton spoke twenty-nine languages, and was a decorated soldier. He was also mercurial, subtle, and an iconoclastic atheist. Speke was a young aristocrat and Army officer determined to make his mark, passionate about hunting, Burton’s opposite in temperament and beliefs.

From the start the two men clashed. They would endure tremendous hardships, illness, and constant setbacks. Two years in, deep in the African interior, Burton became too sick to press on, but Speke did, and claimed he found the source in a great lake that he christened Lake Victoria. When they returned to England, Speke rushed to take credit, disparaging Burton. Burton disputed his claim, and Speke launched another expedition to Africa to prove it. The two became venomous enemies, with the public siding with the more charismatic Burton, to Speke’s great envy. The day before they were to publicly debate,Speke shot himself.

Yet there was a third man on both expeditions, his name obscured by imperial annals, whose exploits were even more extraordinary. This was Sidi Mubarak Bombay, who was enslaved and shipped from his home village in East Africa to India. When the man who purchased him died, he made his way into the local Sultan’s army, and eventually traveled back to Africa, where he used his resourcefulness, linguistic prowess and raw courage to forge a living as a guide. Without Bombay and men like him, who led, carried, and protected the expedition, neither Englishman would have come close to the headwaters of the Nile, or perhaps even survived.

And Finally by Henry Marsh 

As a retired brain surgeon, Henry Marsh thought he understood illness, but he was unprepared for the impact of his diagnosis of advanced cancer. And Finally explores what happens when someone who has spent a lifetime on the frontline of life and death finds himself contemplating what might be his own death sentence.

As he navigates the bewildering transition from doctor to patient, he is haunted by past failures and projects yet to be completed, and frustrated by the inconveniences of illness and old age. But he is also more entranced than ever by the mysteries of science and the brain, the beauty of the natural world and his love for his family. Elegiac, candid, luminous and poignant, And Finally is ultimately not so much an audiobook about death, but an audiobook about life and what matters in the end.

[ludo-nadir]

Idle Thoughts 8

Why would you speak about a person's heritage and family and bring it into question if you do not know them and have never met them in person? You don't know their family, direct or extended. Certainly, you can speak to people adjacent to them, but it still does not mean you have definitive information on their family history. You cannot make conclusive statements about their heritage as an outside observer.

If you do not know an individual's personal account or history with drug use or addiction, why would you try to speak over them about these matters? You do not know from firsthand information how their life or the lives of people around them were impacted, so you cannot claim to know whether or not they're lying.

Did you know this person and their life history personally? Have you known them through periods of time when they were younger? No? Then why do you claim they could not have possibly been homeless at one point? You weren't there. You don't know. You can claim you know a friend of a friend who knows one thing or another, but you do not know through firsthand accounts. In addition, homelessness takes many forms. People can still have access to the internet and social media, but still be homeless.

Do you know with 100% certainty that an anonymous comment or message was made by a person? How do you know? Assuming it's a specific person based solely on "speech patterns" is fallacious: you are not as adept at interpreting patterns in dialogue as you think you are. You are simply looking for patterns that you expect to see rather than observe what is actually before you. Without solid, undeniable evidence that involves real data rather than extrapolation from what you personally believe are patterns, you don't know anything.

Do you know exactly the context of every conversation a person has had with others? No? Then why are you dissecting snippets of dialogue, drawing conclusions from barely any conjecture to paint a picture of malice? You do not know the full history of dialogue between groups of individuals that you do not know anything about. You do not have access to this information. You are merely taking snapshots of information and crafting a narrative.

Do you know a stranger's full medical history, having never met them in-person once in your life, nor do you have any direct connections to people and family immediately around them? No? Then why do you make such audacious claims to know whether or not they have had an illness or not? You claim an individual is lying about having illnesses or medical conditions, with your evidence being…. nothing. You don't know them. You don't know them on a personal basis enough to really know what medical history they've had. You cannot wholeheartedly proclaim your opinion as truth when you have no evidence to support your words.

Do you know the complete educational history of this person, including where they went to school, when they went to school, and have access to their school records? No? Then why do you claim to know the extent of their education and degree (or lack thereof) if you don't actually know their educational history personally? You don't know this individual personally. You don't know where they went to school. When they went to school. What they went to school for. If you don't know these things, then no number of proclamations or collecting text-based messages can ever lend any credence to your claims.

You can claim many things. You can use all the anecdotal evidence you wish; however it does not change the fact that it is still thus: anecdotal. Unreliable. Informal, and lacking any irrefutable proof. You can tell others that you have proof. You make long essays, you post screenshots, you link a post or two. But at the end of the day, you do not know this person. You have only scratched the surface of an online persona whilst having no meaningful evidence to support your own words.

The longest, most in-depth analyses of these posts are flawed; you are still operating under the notion that anecdotal evidence is evidence at all.

It is not.

What you believe and what is actually true are mutually exclusive.

If you do not know an individual personally, you cannot make broad claims about their family history, their livelihood, their residence, their education, their medical history. You can draw conjecture all you wish, though it will not ever change the fact that you truly do not know for certain.

Pretending otherwise is dishonest and revealing of the true nature of the claims: an effort by which to slander the character and credibility of another.

To those who take a more critical look at the situation, it is clear that there are no hard pieces of evidence through which you are using to discredit another. There is only the facetious use of anecdotes and conjecture drawn from small fragments of information you piece together in whatever method suits your story the best. An intentional framing of dialogue, text, or video, all pieces of media that show an insignificantly small portion of an individual's true self and tie them together in such a manner as to present a case that you see fit to.

All humans have a bias in their work, whether they are aware of such or not. Yours are worn proudly on your sleeves: you intentionally seek out controversy, lies, and deceit, and thus it is all you will ever see.

To slander another with an excess of words and links to others' anecdotes to bolster your own faux credibility is doable by anyone and to anyone, of course. If you have enough pieces of many different puzzles, you'll eventually be able to force them to fit together and make whatever image you choose to create.

Whether you do or not, however, will demonstrate whether your sense of morality is skewed.

If you do not know an individual on a personal basis, how can you possibly claim to know so much about them?

You do not.

Humans are not perfect beings: far from it. I can empathize with people who have been personally harmed by an individual. Who've maybe been verbally abused, lashed-out at, or otherwise made to feel uncomfortable, unsafe, or unwelcome. Such behavior is unacceptable, and I encourage people to speak out against it as such.

No one individual should need suffer through harm, and people are correct in defending themselves from it.

But a line must be drawn between protecting oneself from verbal altercations, and the malicious spread of misinformation based on anecdotal evidence.

By all means, relay information about personal one-on-one interactions you may have with someone, but to cruelly claim falsehood and lies over facts you have no capacity to know with certainty is far more damaging in the online ecosystem.

[delta7463]

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[mbenvs3000w24]

06. How history informs present

"People must know the past to understand the present, and to face the future" - Nellie L. McClung

"There is no peculiar merit in ancient things, but there is merit in integrity, and integrity entails the keeping together of the parts of any whole, and if these parts are scattered throughout time, then the maintenance of integrity entails a knowledge, a memory, of ancient things. …. To think, feel or act as though the past is done with, is equivalent to believing that a railway station through which our train has just passed, only existed for as long as our train was in it."

(Edward Hyams, Chapter 7, The Gifts of Interpretation)

Initial Thoughts:

Both these quotes, essentially, have the same core message; acknowledging and understanding the past is vital to maintaining our present conditions effectively. Our lives now are the result of an accumulation of past decisions, the choice our ancestors made to migrate or to settle determined where we ended up, who they married informed our genetics and the careers they chose laid the foundation for our socio-economic lives. While these circumstances are in the past, they happened and we are living proof of their affects, they demand to be recognized. As Hyams puts it, "To think, feel or act as though the past is done with, is equivalent to believing that a railway station through which our train has just passed, only existed for as long as our train was in it", its absurd to dismiss the past because one believes it no longer directly influences them, consequences of the past continues to trickle down and shape the world around us.

While knowing our personal history is important in acknowledging where we as individuals (and families) came from, for communities it is a necessary step to sustainable practices.

History through Oral Tradition:

Oral tradition like all methods of teaching imparts cumulative information from generation to generation, with the difference lying in the fact that oral tradition only utilizes the use of spoken language rather than written text to communicate knowledge.

This ancient practice seen around the world allows for interpretation and contextualization through storytelling which essentially offers insight into the motivations, beliefs, and values of previous generations. Elders are able to pass down knowledge gained from lived experiences, offering guidance and insights that inform present-day decision-making and behavior. By engaging with oral traditions, individuals can learn from the successes and failures of past generations and apply these lessons to navigate present day challenges and opportunities.

The Development of Medicine:

Another invaluable way of utilizing the history and progression of knowledge is studying the development of medical sciences. The medical field has developed extensively over the centuries and has taught us valuable lessons for informing future endeavors in healthcare. By understanding disease patterns, learning from past medical practices, addressing ethical considerations, leveraging technological advancements, and addressing social determinants of health, we can improve healthcare outcomes and ensure patient safety in the future. Historical knowledge helps us avoid past mistakes, innovate responsibly, and address systemic barriers to equitable healthcare delivery.

Bottomline, past decisions and actions continue to reverberate through time, shaping our current circumstances and influencing our lived experiences. Hyams' analogy of the railway station effectively illustrates the fallacy of viewing the past as disconnected from the present, emphasizing the ongoing relevance and significance of historical events and legacies.

[randomclam24]

I made an attempt to oblige the uploaders on germ theory on BitChute, but then I inevitably realized the act of actually getting to solid arguments one way or another in this shit-flinging was actually beyond the pale.

I remember, at some point, I made the statement that the way lefties expect people to make sense according to *their* thoughts, like the women that will divorce-rape you because they get the "ick", that expectation has nothing to do with the amount of effort applied.

So? Then I look at something in reality, and I realize there really *isn't* any merit in going beyond the pale of their expectations, because all these people are doing anyway is what comes down to repeated ad hominem arguments based in strawmen fallacies that they're making simply because they "have" their theory concluded in their minds in advance. If this is what is considered getting the job done intellectually, it's no wonder nothing ever gets done anymore in the workforce either. No, our problem runs *deeper* than the dropout crisis. Men don't know how to work. Our sense of satisfaction comes from this sense of being "right", which exists on essentially a virtual plane that doesn't exist.

If we had a solid argument in all that, the uploader would still be full of shit.

The current standings on the science are that it doesn't matter whether you're of the establishment or not: everyone, *everyone* finishes their argument by painting in broad strokes that every disease is categorized as *their* label, with no proof - with anti-germ-theory conspiracy theorists, it's awkwardly that they're "toxins" or "venom", which makes *no* sense because that awkwardness gives people the "ick", so to speak, setting off an entire tirade of pro-establishment wall-of-text. The scientific establishment itself has it established so that every disease, when you simply look it up, will be categorized as bacteria because it is made default. So on both ends, no effort or actualization is involved. The scientific method be damned. We're not living in a first-world country - when you step outside the bounds of what they'll teach you within standardized curriculum, it's like venturing outside your whitewashed neighborhood into what Kanye has dubbed "the Black Mass". "Astronauts Gone Wild" is thereby par for the course and then some, as you see these people catching things on fire flipping cars over every now and then for no reason or stimulus other than that some headcanon of the value of the ad hominem strawmen described got violated, and they're very angry. In reality, life doesn't have the intrinsic value to get all uppity about it. The average IQ is only 100, in the end. So aside from regurgitation-level understanding of what your curriculum teaches you at face value, what, you can play with Tinker Toys?

So basically - especially when they're lodged in a bureaucratic position in an institution that's deemed "too big to fail", humans aren't worth their salt - so you should not pay taxes. But this laziness doesn't even require the existence of an institution in the first place. The sense that they are right in a way that morally removes them from the fault of the flock suffices, so that the uploader will no longer feel the need to build their theory from the ground up to qualify it. You *might* find the meat of the argument in there, but there's no push toward it.

How it goes "Please prove that diseases etc. are either venom/toxin or bacteria"

"*Sorry*, I was already on course to just sit here and keep flapping my gums for another few hours until *another* set of tangents crop up" ( - then, for people that I actually am there with in person, then they finish and look around like everything's resolved, and I have to make my question from zero again, and then maybe they're like "*oh!*")

I don't know how to diagnose this except from what I heard from a Christian book, that people of modernity have lost their touch of what it means to be in an intimate environment - they seek after attraction after attraction like tourists

[nonbinaryeye]

I can see why some people think Disco Elysium is almost advocating pro communism and it the most sympathetic ideology there for sure.

But it seems to me that they miss the part when the game says "hey communism is kinda cool but it cannot really work". Because the game criticise every single ideology.

It does not use any of logical fallacies to make fun of them. It takes their problematic aspects and exaggerates their ingame versions to the comical extreme. To the point whem its impossible to overlook certain problematic aspects.

And there is lots of belief and good will and paintings of idealistic future in the communism as it is presented to us, yes. But there is little to no believable explanation of how to achieve any of it because it will not build itself on our faith alone. (just through Harry we can say so many lines like *let's start building communism" and "power to the working class" but there's no way to follow up on them, they are just empty words.)

And of course then there is also contrast of the ideology as it is presented to us in its manifest (very idealistic with no instructions or proofs and only theories), ideology as it was practiced in the past (Kras Mazov and his not very peaceful revolution) and ideology as it is practiced today (Intellectuals and elitists interested only in debating refusing any criticism).

Now of course we don't know how are we supposed to interpret the text of the game and everyone is entitled to have their own interpretation but especially this part for me just says: Communism has just one little flaw and that is that outside of theory it does not work.

[logically-asexual]

i have the theory that Logan and Virgil react to lies in similar but opposite ways.

if you try to lie to logan with fallacies he’ll be able to spot it immediately because he can and will find the gaps in your logic. for example stuff like “i have never experienced this therefore it doesn’t happen.” and don’t even try him with wrong interpretations from statistics because he will destroy your entire argument to pieces.

however if you just make stuff up on the spot that he has no way to prove he will believe you without question. this is also linked to him taking expressions literally because if virgil says “i hate to have to light fires under your butts” then he’ll believe that’s exactly what he has done.

on the other hand, virgil is the opposite. if you try to tell him a statement upfront it’s almost impossible he will believe you unless he has has hard proof. this works with like “hey sorry i didn’t reply to your text, i ran out of battery.” and the others telling him they do like him.

but if you try to reason with virgil it’s actually not that hard to make up some line of logic to convince him of what you’re trying to say. like how remus did in his introduction, convincing him that thomas’s intrusive though made him a bad person.

and basically when Logan and Virgil work together they’re able to make a good team in part because Logan can help Virgil by pointing out the inconsistencies in the stuff Virgil has been convinced of and on the other side Virgil seems to be the one most willing to remind Logan when random statements are exaggerations or expressions no matter how often it’s needed.

[butchbarbieagainstterfs]

I would really like TERFs to just use common sense for once. I've been seeing terf posts with hundreds of notes, that are supposedly "TRA receipts" that seem, frankly, blatantly fake to me.

There are shitty trans people out there (though holding them up as an example of how an entire group act is another huge logical fallacy), but you just need to stop and think when you see these things. It's absurdly easy for someone to fake a chain of text messages, or for someone to send themselves an anonymous ask on Tumblr. When you see a screenshot of something like that, all you have to do is ask yourself if it seems like something a real person would say or if it's more likely to be a script someone made up to make their views look better.

It's one of the main reasons I'm never bothered by thoughts like "what if terfs are right." All of their proof (aside from obviously wonky studies from right-wing groups) comes from circular logic. This example of a trans person doing something bad must be completely accurate, because trans people are evil, and I they know that because they've seen so many stories about evil trans people.

I don’t like claiming they’re fake but like for every supposed receipt they have of a trans person, there is one for a TERF also doing something shitty.

Yet when you show them these things, it’s either “that’s not a real radfem” or “TERFs aren’t a hivemind”.

Yet they think these receipts, a lot of which might not even be of trans people, represents the entire trans community.

There is also a difference between trans people, who do not choose their identities and are not inherently politically tied with other trans people, and TERFs, who do choose their political identity and are politically tied with each other.

[turnbacktyne]

Just want to let yall know my position

tw // potential grooming, dream situation, suicide mention

These past five or so days have been really really hard on me. I wanted to stay quiet but seeing how moots are acting I do want to lay my cards out. 

If you don’t agree with me that’s totally fine, we all are handling this in varying different ways and with different perspectives. 

When this first all went down, and even after Dream posted, I still was pretty unsure if his words were to be trusted- especially since he offered no physical proof. 

However, in the past few days, with fallacies coming to light, just unusual decisions, and followup accusations against the potential victim, my belief has waned and I’m starting to distrust everything from both sides. 

The evidence offered of the texts (if real) don’t seem in any way shape or form even sexual. I know her story is that she deleted stuff, but until I see hard evidence of such or these court cases make their head (from all three people), I’m going to tentatively try and continue my course as is. 

But what you won’t see from me is any sort of bashing or humor about the situation. Because  I think you can still enjoy dream and continue cautiously with dsmp shit while still being respectful to the potential victim.

I also just want to say that I don’t believe Dream did this whole fundraiser with damage control in mind. This has been talked about for months, since Techno’s passing, and I really don’t think even if he tried to explain to Technodad what was going on, it would change the amount of scheduling it probably would have had to take. 

If you hate me for this, then hate me. Im just trying to work through this in my own way

[reflectionsofneptune]

little things I associate with the Mercury signs.

Little dreamy, abstract things I associate with the Mercury signs in Astrology.

Aries Mercury

Authoritative. When I want something, I make it clear. Crystal clear. No beating around the bush. A forceful way of speaking. Don’t talk about it, be about it. Short sentences. A hint of arrogance. Competitive edge seeping through my words. What can I say, I like to be a winner? At all times. A raspy voice. Adopting a youthful charm when it suits me. Attuned to perceiving danger in my environment. Disliking an over-emphasis of niceties in conversation. Keeping it real. Exercising to clear the mind. Pep - talks. The rev of an engine. Pedal to the metal. Talking to me, I need you to bring your A Game and something new. Conversation needs to be stimulating. 

Taurus Mercury

Savouring. Words need to be savoured. Like beauty, they only get better with age. Listen carefully and hear what I stand for. Slowing down. Something about the handwriting. Cursive. An even tone. Words flow out of my mouth like maple syrup oozes down the height of a stack of fluffy, warm pancakes. Stubbornness. When am I ever wrong? Pictures, or it’s not real. Proof being recognised from what my base senses pick up. Inspiration from nature. A level-head. Choosing to see the beauty in my environment. For better or for worse. Don’t be fooled by my lack of conversation, I peep everything. 

Gemini Mercury

Riddles. I’m not going to tell you the answer but the curve of my lip might reveal itself when you’re getting close. Starting one conversation with one subject. Finishing the conversation with a completely different one. Playfulness. Humour as a tool of deflection. Quick texts. Leading conversations. Making a best friend in the supermarket. Another one, on the bus.  Seeing the duality of things in my environment. Information is like crack. I can’t get enough. Multiple tabs, open. Nervous energy. Fiddling. Mimicking your mannerisms if I like you, verbally ripping you apart if it tickles my fancy. Or not, I get distracted quite easily so you may be let off the hook.

Cancer Mercury

Introspective. Thinking about the past. Sometimes not finding my way back to the present. Emotions filtering through my words. Perceptions are protective. A vintage film, the introduction devoid of colour. An interest in knowing where one comes from, what comforts someone. Needing to cleanse myself of everybody’s emotional baggage. Again. Pathetic fallacy. Finishing your sentences. Promise its not on purpose. Wanting security from my environment. A psychological slant to conversations. A rich inner imagination. A diary, signed, sealed and under my pillow. Withdrawing into the cocoon of my thoughts when I feel threatened. 

Leo Mercury 

Commanding. A leadership position sounds good to me. Confidence in my thoughts. Words that can brighten up your life. Disney movies. Teasing conversations. Class clown. My thoughts are copyrighted. Bluffing. The curve a chest, puffed out to its maximum, makes. Talking loudly so I’m sure you hear me. Describing something in such detail, so you can feel as if you were there. Piping hot tea. Intellect and ego tied together.  Creativity expressed through speech. Seeing my immediate environment as a stage. Conversations in the mirror. The little grooves formed at the corner of the eyes when the smile is genuine. Blowing my own trumpet because if I don’t, who will?

Virgo Mercury

Organised. Seeing flaws in my environment. A to-do list, covered on both sides. Polite but not foolish. The spine of a book, crease free. Stepping back in conversation. The few creases that appear on the skin when a nose is wrinkled. Monotone. Advice given freely. Or withdrawing all help if I see it going through one ear and out the other. Discernment in conversation. Sticky notes. Attuned to see the bullshit in conversation. In life. Helpful suggestions. Take it or leave it. Mind feels like a hamster wheel. How do you turn this thing off?  An upward line of a tick, in red. Not an excuse, but know that the harder I am on you, the harder I am on myself really. 

Libra Mercury

Flirting. Feels as natural as breathing does. A sweet talker. The stem of cherry. A gentle lilt that comes alive in conversation. A fickle mind. Forever weighing up the pro’s and cons. Birdsong, cutting through morning dew. Wanting peace from my environment. Trying to maintain peace in my environment. A white flag fluttering in the wind, atop a hill. Indecision feels paralysing. Waiting for you to finish speaking before I provide an opposing point of view. Feigning innocence. Learning about myself through conversations with others. Sometimes not liking what I see. 3 sides to a story. I am capable of a decision, I just feel better when the internal scales of my thoughts are balanced. 

Scorpio Mercury

Power. Power plays in conversation. Checkmate. Words are comparable to pieces on a chessboard. Not a fan of small talk. Unless it’s for my benefit. Intuition on point. And then some. Probing. Trust issues. Talking to someone for a minute but deducing years of their life from a single meeting. Burner phones in a drawer. The eerie silence that comes around, say 4 AM. Secrets, mine and yours, help me fall asleep at night. Receipts for weeks, days and months. I’ve got it all. Past hurts cut deep in my psyche. Eyebrows pulled together. Pretending to be deaf when convenient. Subject changes. A full stop. Knowledge is power. I am capable of sharing intimate details of myself…..you first though. 

Sagittarius Mercury

YOLO. Sending those kinda texts to the wrong group chat by mistake. Saying what we were all thinking, even if it’s not the ‘right’ time, ‘cos fuck it. Slidin’ in the DM’s. Popping up like it’s nothing. You know me. Is time even real? The underside of a desk, covered with tags, love notes, and condom wrappers. Going off on social media. For a good cause, most of the time. Falling back on spirituality when life gets tough. Thought patterns are expansive and influenced by cultures and theories different than mine. Appreciating the differences in life. In people. Gift of the gab. That person who’s laughing when no one else is. Believing in abundance because that's what my environment reflects back to me. Stretching the fine line between truth and fantasy…….’cos fuck it.

Capricorn Mercury

Blue ticks. Time is of the essence. Thoughts are disciplined. A 3 tier desk organiser, stuffed to the brim with documents. Elocution lessons. Did you know I used to stutter? Deadpan jokes. A raised eyebrow. Judging people. We all do it, it’s innate to us. Keep your friends close. Enemies closer. Voicemail. I don’t need people to like me, but respect me is all I ask. A calculating mind. Always planning ahead. Sudoku puzzles. People give themselves away all the time, you just need to listen. Believing people’s actions over words. Thoughts focused on external recognition became a burden I often didn’t ask for, weighs me down.

Aquarius Mercury

Observant. Seeing the subtle layers that make up human behaviour. People are fascinating. A 360 way of looking at things. Reverb on an electric guitar. Solution-focused. A finger on the pulse of undiscovered knowledge. Static from a radio dial. I’m not afraid to question everything. An outdated statue, tipped. A love and hate relationship with time. Flashes of intuition. Needing time to process thoughts. A cool perspective. Shades of sunglasses, tinted yellow. Including people I’ve never met in my thoughts. In my dreams. My wishes. A Brave New World? I’m still waiting for people to step up and take responsibility.

Pisces Mercury

The red and white swirls of a helter-skelter ride. The path connecting my thoughts and my words is a little beaten. But not many people have bothered to venture this way. Pillow talk during the day. Drifting off in conversation. Overspilling in conversations. Or people, overspilling details of their life onto me. Missing appointments. Two circles merging into one if you stare long enough. Tapped into Source. Weaving you a dream with my words so good, I start to believe it. The afterword in a novel. Doodles in a margin. Sensitivity in conversation. Picking up a million and one signals from my environment. Using music to lose myself and ironically, find myself in the end.

————

| little thoughts about venus placements

| little thoughts about the mars placements

| little thoughts about the saturn placements

[eisforeidolon]

When did Jensen say that he and Jared don't talk a lot? How does missing face to face conversations so misunderstandings don't happen because they are busy working in different countries during a pandemic count as not talking? Though when you're used to spending 15 hours a day together for 15 years, going out together even during off time, talking regularly would feel like not talking a lot. And even one convo a month with Misha where the same story gets discussed might be too much 😂

Yeah, I think they made it clear in the post that they were personally extrapolating 'don't talk a lot' from Jensen's prequelgate tweet where he said he "miss[es] these talks" and "I know you're busy ... as am I" [X]. Not surprising to see someone jumping to that conclusion, as at the time I saw people even attempting to dissect the tense he used for proof Jensen was totes lying for PR and hates Jared now and left him out on purpose and blah blah blah. Except it intentionally dances around Jensen specifically mentioning less face time, which implies ongoing interaction but not at the same level as before. Like any person who leaves home and goes from talking to friends/siblings/parents face-to-face on a daily basis for hours at a time to only incidental texts/calls/etc. To which the later context of the leaked M&G fits right in, where Jensen said The Boys set is a no-phone-zone.

At least with the show, if you actually watch the whole thing, you see the extent of the characters' lives that exist. This is a matter of attempting to find secret clues out of a fraction of the actors lives - that the guys are very aware is happening in the public eye - to discover the real story of their personal lives. Which is a suspect premise to begin with, but to then apply the exact same fallacious methodology with which they interpret the show? I.e. cherry-picking out only the clues and interpretations of them that fit the pre-chosen desired narrative? Which necessitates pretending an entire mountain range of contextual interactions and alternate interpretations magically don't exist? C'mon.

[fanartfunart]

@sapony01​ commented on one of my Sides Swap posts: Can you explain their function and personality a bit better/explore them? Some are kinda obvious but some kinda confuse me

And, but of course! I’m totally open to it! (I’m mostly making another post for it because otherwise it’ll get absurdly long)

To summarize, the main idea is that they keep their personality and secondary traits they represent (Like Ego, Emotionality, ect), while further representing the Main Trait (like Anxiety, Creativity, ect)

The rest under the cut:

Anxiety

Roman: His key representation of Anxiety would befall closer to overemphasizing bravery and ignoring problems, and of course, insecurities. Thus a focus on Dangers you can Fight, and avoiding things you can’t. A emphasis on the Knight theme as a representation of bravery. He’d use ego and theatricality as a cover- a ‘be weird before people can accuse you of being weird because then it’s on purpose’ type logic.

Patton: The type of Anxiety where you emotionally over extending yourself because you’re scared of social-emotional repercussions. Caring so much that there’s no time and energy to care for yourself. Also a good representation of the Dad-Friend override for Anxiety.

Logan: A representation of over-analyzing the world like an outsider, that emotional distance that, while you’re curious of all the things around you, you can’t help but focus on the bad. Avoidance becomes a key factor and everything is categorized as bad or good off of exaggerated ‘proof’.

Janus: Very self protective to the point that things outside the Comfort Zone are almost always negative and overwhelming. Sarcasm, brittleness, and lying as a way to avoid things outside the Comfort Zone.

Remus: Overthinking creating an Anxious reaction. Basically seeing things in the shadows and over-analyzing interactions. Essentially worries cropping up out of the idea of various terrible things you can think of possibly coming at you from the smallest of hints to it. Also Knight theme because why not.

Creativity 

Logan: A more organized and analytic approach to creative works. Prone to being a literary critic. Draws from media to explain a point. As creativity would likely be the type of writer that hides details and metaphors in everything, focus on foreshadowing and the such.

Janus: Never lets anything be direct, people should be able to make their own conclusions about the meaning of the text. Probably thinks method acting is fun. The kind of actor/writer that easily shrugs on different types of characterizations that it makes other people dizzy seeing him switch between them.

Virgil: Your inner Emo Art Phase personified (everyone has at least one somewhere in there). Would prefer to be either a lesser known creator, or not let Thomas use his real name (thus Ghostwriter), because being Known is Awkward and his work can get too real, being known as a real person could detract from the art. Focus on art as an outlet for expressing negative feelings and stress relief.

Patton: Take your craft-happy relative who always hand-makes gifts and you’ve got Creativity Patton. Just wants to have fun and share the fun. Draws from positive emotional experiences for creativity because he wants to give everyone who sees said art a hug through said art. (Yes, his design is vaugely based off of Disney’s Pinocchio Geppetto aka Pinocchio’s dad.)

Remus: Take Remus as he is, and then take the ‘intrusiveness’ out of him. He basically has all the same horrifying ideas, but he doesn’t use them to make Thomas upset or anything, he’s just making stories.

Logic

Patton: Sorta a relaxed logic, understands not everything can be solved with a clean logical solution and that emotions hold a important space in people’s actions. Is that little logical voice when you’re super mad going ‘you’re mad because this, this, and this, and this is probably an overreaction to what you’re expressing your anger to, but it’s still valid.’ Prone to emotional fallacies though.

Virgil: You know any super cool teacher/professor who teaches you what the book says and then closes the book and says ‘ok now guess what, they’re also wrong, and I’m probably wrong too’?? Virgil as logic. (also why I kinda gave him the ‘tired + university hoodie’ style) Emphasizes learning from various sources and never trusting any of them 100%. Doesn’t trust his own information either, and it makes him stressed.... but like, he’s always stressed anyway so it’s chill. 

Roman: Bounces from topic to topic to learn. Very curious and easily inspired- also easily distracted. The definition of what a liberal arts education should be doing- aka, connecting seemingly unrelated topics. An Encyclopedia of very specific information. But, once he’s got a set of information it’s hard to let go of it, which makes it hard to adjust to being told he’s wrong.

Janus: Emphasis on how information is always being adjusted, and people’s biases are always present in studies and interpretation. Focuses on debunking things. Also kinda makes it hard to 100% be sure of any information presented.

Remus: Enjoys abusing the ‘technicalities’ in things. A little hard to follow in terms of train of thought. Disturbing Facts are still facts.

Morality

Virgil: Emphasis on sympathy and ‘do what you’d hope people would do for you’ moral arguments. Focus on social structure for the ground rules for moral behavior. That guy who’s constantly nice because he wished someone was nice to him, ya know? Hates the idea of being a bad person so much that it causes a lot of guilt and mistrust of the self.

Logan: Thinks of moral behavior as an equation of sorts. People do good things and that causes good things and that allows the social structure to work as it should, so do good things. Draws on philosophy and other social sciences to argue his points. Easy to readjust his thinking with proper reasoning.

Roman: Just wants people to be happy! And to be good! Emphasis on the reactions of others and how that effects your social/emotional well-being. Do good because it feels good kinda guy (he wants to be somebody’s Hero, ya know how it be).

Janus: Understands that morality is such a grey place that most anything can be seen as bad if you argue it enough. Places value on the self as someone deserving of feeling good as well, and bases moral values on what you as an individual wants to do. Also still kinda morally grey in general and probably shouldn’t always be listened to.

Remus: I Follow no Rules but My Own. Full rejection of social pressures. What precisely that means for his resulting moral standing is up to debate.

Deceit

Logan: Woorsst lair because he’ll twist truth and facts into it and it’s hard to pick out what’s the lie. Very blunt about his role as deception and its benefits and drawbacks. Very good about remembering which lies were told when and to who. Not the kind to lie more than seen necessary.

Roman: Focus on lying as acting and getting to where you need to go in life. ‘Fake it til you make it’ is his motto and it also includes mental states. Makes it hard to be honest about feelings. Very much a ‘lying to yourself’ aspect.

Virgil: Lying to avoid perceived negative repercussions. Lying still bothers him- as lying can also cause negative reactions. Focus on lying in reaction to events, less so on lying to the self. Not every lie is especially necessary though, knee-jerk reactions and fear make it very easy to lie. Lies of omission being the most utilized.

Remus: The opposite to Roman’s ‘lying to yourself’. Lying to others just to see their reactions. Uses being ‘blatantly honest’ about taboo subjects to seem honest about other things.

Patton: Lying to spare people’s feelings and being perceived well. Focus on lying or omitting the truth to seem like everything’s awesome.

Intrusive Thots

Patton: Makes emotional reactions overwhelmingly hard to gauge and control, results in terrifying thoughts and feelings with little control or filter. Gets stuck on ideas because of how hard he’s trying to push it away (yea know, like the white bear experiment).

Virgil: Thinks in problem solving, but the problems are of course, the thoughts of his own creation. Incessant about ‘solving’ the perceived problem.... not much else changes.

Logan: The Mad Scientist aesthetic is fun, what can I say? Takes facts and focuses on the scary parts, and then brings them back up on the slightest hint of relevance, and sometimes just Because. Some of it is curiosity taken into a frightening territory and gets overwhelming.

Janus: Emphasis on what happens if terrible things happened. Also likes using the ‘you’re gonna go to hell anyway just dive in with me’ argument. Occasionally pops up in a way that sounds almost nice, then turns horrifying very quickly.

Roman: Take Roman, make his ideas more Remus. He’s already Loud and Proud, just make him scarier, and a little more incessant and probably a little more arrogant for good measure.