#post wtit

[halfhissandwich]

character bingo! Remus!!

Okay, after WTIT, I don’t actively dislike Remus anymore because he was literally perfect in WTIT, absolutely no flaws, WTIT was a masterpiece. I’m only slightly exaggerating. Anyway, I feel like there are many different directions that can be taken with Remus, and I love his unique quality where he seems to be the only side who couldn’t care less what Thomas thinks of him, but instead wants the attention of the other sides. That makes him quite the interesting counter to Janus, who wants Thomas’ attention and doesn’t care about the sides, which may be why I think they make such a good team. I think Remus works extremely well as an antagonist, to the point where I can’t help but celebrate when I hear his leitmotif (namely in WTIT) because I know I’m in for a rollercoaster of an episode. My problem with Remus is that sometimes his silliness takes away from his role sometimes. That may be why I like him so much more in WTIT, because he’s still silly but he acts with purpose. I can seriously talk for hours about how much I love WTIT but I’ll spare you of that. I’ll just say that if WTIT wasn’t an episode, I’d actively despise Remus.

(Also hoping for more creativitwins development because I wanna see them legitimately interact!)

[boygirlctommy]

aw ok the christmas special asides was kinda cute

[transfemlogan]

Ok its fine now. I didnt have time 2 reread it b4 it posted but all images have ids.

[crowncoconut]

hello again tumblr. back to school is upon us and im not really making as much art bc. less time. but i do have panels from an old WTIT based animatic that i never finished that i was hyped into posting 💕 so yes. more on the way in the distant future

[halloween4life]

The Orange Side is going to represent Impulsiveness and the rest of y'all are wrong: a thread

For obvious reasons the title of this post is a joke. But anyway, hi hello. I wanted to talk about my theory of what I think the Orange Side is gonna be! Now this post is going to be looong so for the sake of everyone it's going to be put under the cut.

Disclaimers that I want to get out of the way now: I have just recently re-entered the fandom and I haven't been into Sanders Sides in years. I'm not a Patreon supporter nor do I have Twitter so I lack any information that may have been revealed there. Also I am still in the process of rewatching the series. So as of now, I don't really have a complete understanding of the series. I apologize if I get anything wrong, and if any of this puts you off, totally valid.

Oh also, general spoilers for like, anything Sanders Sides related but specifically Working Through Intrusive Thoughts (if you still somehow have not watched it). Honestly I recommend watching it before reading this as a refresher, because most of this theory is based around/supported by that video. It's like, really the only foundation for this theory as I don't really delve much into the other episodes.

First things first, I am going to lay down some rules on what the Orange Side could represent:

1) The concept needs to in some way be the "opposite" of logic. Realistically this doesn't have to be the case in the series, but based on how the other Dark Sides function, it makes the most sense for now.

2) The concept needs to be generally considered negative for them to be considered a Dark Side.

3) Whatever they represent needs to REALISTICALLY make sense as an aspect of C! Thomas' identity. I think a lot of people forget that the Sides are that, Sides of a whole person. So I tried my best to make that work.

Now, with that out of the way,,,I'm going to "debunk" some theories first. Yes sorry there is a lot of set up to this theory, but I feel like it's important. Also, reminder, if you believe in either of the theories I am going to debunk, that is TOTALLY 100% VALID! I'm just going to discuss why I don't think they work, so this is all just my opinion!

Theory 1: The Orange Side represents Rage

I'm pretty sure this is the most popular theory right now, and I know a lot of people also disagree with it. I think this one mostly came about because our only real evidence of the Orange Side is through Logan's anger fueled outbursts in WTIT and Learning New Things About Ourselves. While I definitely understand this line of thinking, I don't think it's right.

First and foremost, it breaks the third rule set up earlier. Again, all these characters are facets of Thomas' personality. And from what we've seen of him, it just doesn't make sense with his personality. Now, again, this could obviously be different in the series, we could learn that this is actually his rage and he's just been repressing it, but I doubt that'll be the case. (Also I feel like this could break the first rule but I don't know how to explain why).

Secondly, and I just think that rage in and of itself is just, way too specific of a concept to be represented by a side. This kinda works in tandem with the first point, since again, it just doesn't seem that large of an aspect of Thomas that it would be represented by its own side. As well, all the other sides represent either much larger concepts or multiple at a time. For instance, Logan, Patton, and Roman represent logic, morality, and (good) creativity respectively. While Virgil and Janus do represent anxiety and deceit, those titles are rather reductive, as they also represent vigilance and self-preservation respectively. (Really I think we need to talk more about the fact that Janus is canonically Thomas' self-preservation but is really only viewed as "deceit"). Remus is a fun case as although he is viewed as "intrusive thoughts", he as a whole represents the bad side of creativity. TLDR: Rage is too specific a concept to be its own side.

Theory 2: The Orange Side Represents Emotion

Okay I'm going to be honest, I've only seen one person on here with this theory (and for the life of me I can't remember their name). But I just want to say that if you are reading this, this isn't me calling you out or anything (honestly I really agreed with your theory until I came up with this one). If I remember correctly, this theory is more built on the Orange Side being an opposite to logic, and how emotions tend to cloud logic, similar to the reasoning for rage.

I think this theory most obviously breaks rule 2. Now emotions as a whole do have the capacity to be bad, I think the concept of just emotion is not generally considered bad. Definitely not enough for it to be considered along with the Dark Sides. It's simply too big of a concept to be either "good" or "bad".

On that subject, I think this theory has a similar issue to the rage theory, but in the opposite direction. While rage was too specific, emotions are waaay too broad to just be one singular side. Especially given that all of the current sides have some sway over Thomas' emotions. And it's also possible that this side would be considered too close to Patton. While yes, it is not explicitly stated that he is in charge of Thomas' emotions, he definitely has the most sway over them. Ultimately, I think this theory is just too vague to work.

Okay, now with that all out of the way, let's get into my actual theory. So,

Why do I think the Orange Side will represent Impulsiveness?

I'm going to start this off by comparing my claims to the rules I made up. Because tbh, that's how I came to the conclusion in the first place before I started finding evidence to support it (but isn't that how all good hypotheses work?)

1) Does impulsiveness act as a counter to logic?

According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, Impulsive is defined as "prone to sudden illogical changes of mind, ideas, or actions". Now I was gonna go on a big explanation of how they are opposites but it literally says illogical in the definition. So uh, yayy 🎉🎉🎉

2) Is impulsiveness seen as a negative thing?

Now, truthfully there is no way for me to prove that impulsiveness is either "good" or "bad". That being said, I feel like a lot of people generally view impulsiveness as a bad thing. While in small amounts it can be seen as good and fun, the more frequently you engage in impulsive behaviors, the more destructive it can become. Often leading to bad decision making, i.e. avoiding work, making big financial decisions without much thought, and generally just doing what you want over what may be important.

3) Does this fit within Thomas' personality?

Yes. It has been shown time and time again that Thomas has an issue with his impulsive behaviors. Oftentimes manifesting in him avoiding chores and general self-care in favor of doing something easy or entertaining. The most clear example of this being the video "Growing Up." While yes, most of these decisions are made due to Patton, it's not entirely uncommon for the sides to be affected or swayed by the others. (Also if I'm being honest, I don't think it entirely fair to analyze the earlier episodes with the same critical lens as the later ones, it's definitely not fair to Thomas (the real Thomas) to criticize the early episodes for not perfectly aligning with later lore).

Now, finally, we can get into some evidence to support all these claims I'm making. First things first, as of right now Logan and the Orange Side are one in the same. We haven't been given any proof that they are at least physically different beings (unless you want to count the orange eyes in the Sanders Sides anime intro parody). So all of our evidence is just Logan acting really out of character. So, where does Logan act impulsively?

Our first major incident of this (I'm pretty sure) is in the episode "Learning New Things About Ourselves", specifically the scene where Roman essentially pisses him off so much that he throw's a crumpled up note card at him. Most important is his reaction afterwards, being shocked at himself.

He was basically pushed so far that he reacted without thinking (impulsively some may say? ok I'll stop, I'm sorry). Which, obviously, is EXTREMELY out of character for him. He is logic, he is supposed to think first before he acts, go through possible scenarios and decide the most favorable outcome. Yet, here he loses all control.

Our next example is less of Logan acting impulsive and more so how I believe his actions are affecting Thomas. In the episode "Working Through Intrusive Thoughts", Thomas basically spends the whole time being tormented by Remus because he can't keep his mind off of the risky text he sent Nico (I'm aroace but I'm gonna assume valid? So real?). While Logan is simultaneously trying to keep Thomas on schedule, accommodate his struggles, and accommodate Remus' actions as part of Thomas' identity. Basically, it's a lot, and when he's finally at his limit, well

Yeahhhh, a certain something makes itself known. And while Logan doesn't act particularly irrationally or impulsively in this moment (literally all he does is yell at Remus), it is what Thomas does after this outbreak that I find interesting. As immediately afterward he gets a call from Nico, inviting him out. And given the choice between what he has planned to do and needs to get done for the day, vs spending the day with Nico?

He decides suddenly to just drop everything he is doing for Nico. A rather impulsive decision if you ask me. And while yes, technically none of what Thomas was doing needed to get done that day (it was mostly chores), it was part of a plan and he promised himself to stick to it. Logan doesn't react well to any of this, both his own outburst and Thomas deciding to just leave him behind like it's nothing. And I don't think it's gonna spell anything good in the future for Logan and the rest of the gang.

So, where does that leave us now?

Well, moving a bit on to what I think is going to happen next. Obviously things are going to get worse before they get better. Logan will fall more and more into impulsive behaviors, which will only become more destructive for Thomas. As well, I think (hope, pray) that there will be some sort of team up between Logan and Remus. They're the only sides who I think could "properly" get along (I know that Janus and Remus have some sort of friendship, but it can only work so well as Janus being self-preservation can only really run counter to Remus' intrusive thoughts). Most likely they will feed into each other in a horrible cycle of "I can make him worse." I don't think that would be either of their genuine intentions, as I don't like labeling the Dark Sides and "bad", but I definitely don't think they would be good for each other. I do also think this will come about because Remus either knows or understands something about Logan that the others don't, not even Janus. As well I do hope that Logan and the Orange Side are one in the same somehow, and not just Logan being influenced.

Anyway, sorry for the insanely long post and sorry if it started to devolve towards the end. I am quite literally writing this on no hours of sleep, so give me a bit of grace. Also, another sorry if I have gotten anything wrong or if I have missed something. It has been very long since I've engaged with Sanders Sides, but I'm trying my best. Anyway, thank you for coming to my ted-talk, I hope Logan gets to commit murder in the next episode.

[intrulogical]

remus isn't dumb; a sanders sides essay

i've been struggling to make a cohesive post about this because i feel like most of what i want to say boils down to the same underlying message which is: remus isn't dumb.

i feel like a good chunk of this fandom understands what i mean, at least to a surface level point. but even then, i think too much of the fandom still misinterprets remus' character in a way that, they seem to understand different traits of his, but the way they execute it is still way off from what we see in canon.

(rest of the essay under the cut!)

for example, the biggest thing i see people get wrong would be the way they write remus "lol random" personality. it's true that remus tends to say whatever he wants at any given moment. but, the problem here is that people tend to think remus as random in function. i have no better way to describe this succinctly, so to expound: while remus tends to make left-field jokes a lot, he is shown to be incredibly deliberate, cunning, committed, and intelligent in very subtle ways.

truth is, remus is very goal-oriented, and when he has a goal, oh he strives for that goal. so far, i'm writing this with the last 5 years episode being the most recent substantial episode, so i can't really 100% say all my assumptions of remus are true. actually, i think the upcoming season finale will be the missing link when it comes to providing us with the whole picture of who remus is.

as for now, i just have to stick with my theory of; remus, as a side of thomas' heavily connected to insecurities and mental health issues, intends to shed light on the "darker" sides of thomas because he believes them to be beneficial. throughout dwit, we see remus continuously bolster the idea that his contributions are useful for thomas. this continues in wtit, but with the extra layer of remus wanting logan as well to be in touch with the darker parts of himself to get thomas in line.

it is also heavily implied that remus is well in on whatever janus' plan is to get thomas to be a.) more aware of his mental health issues, and b.) to get thomas to break out of his catholic black and white thinking. in forbidden fruit, it's janus who’s seen permitting remus to present himself to thomas. bigger evidence though, as i've mentioned in the previous paragraph, is the way remus seems to deliberately want logan to manifest his anger against thomas.

of course, we can always say that remus taunted logan "just for fun", but i feel like too much of what happened in wtit seem to point to remus having deeper reasons. for example, wtit exhibits how bad thomas' mental health is to the point that he gets irrationally angry at nico for not replying to his texts. this proves how thomas has been neglecting his mental health, and with the way patton, virgil, and roman held onto toxic selfless ideologies for the longest time, thomas would still, naturally, be lost on what to do. he would even seem to deny how bad things have gotten, especially with the way he acts like nothing bad is happening when he goes to his date with nico.

why am i emphasizing this? well, it's because something i find interesting about remus' character is how deeply cognizant he is of thomas' problems. what i mean by this is, no other side can call out thomas' issues more than remus can. i wrote an essay about this before if you want to check this out, but tldr: remus, as intrusive thoughts, is the most perceptive out of all the sides when it comes to calling out insecurities or problems. we see this come to fruition in wtit when all of the traps he laid out for thomas involved nico in some capacity.

while you can interpret his character as evil for preying on others’ insecurities, i think it's important to acknowledge that, in a sea of people who tend to refuse to talk about their issues, remus is the main guy who constantly brings them to the table. whether remus' intentions are good or not, there's no denying that remus' importance as a side lies in the fact that he serves as a mental health alarm clock for thomas. with the way none of the sides want to communicate with each other, we need someone like remus to cut the bullshit and say things as it is. 

again, we don't really know if he wants to help thomas. but i would like to emphasize that, yes, remus is not dumb. he does not merely make lewd jokes and calls it a day. he has the long-term goal of making everyone talk about more "taboo" topics with each other, and this includes talking about personal grievances the sides tend to suppress or refuse to talk about. lewd jokes are just part of the process.

i think this goal of his is also incredibly visible with the way remus treated logan in wtit. wtit is my favorite sanders sides episode because there's just so much to analyze between remus and logan, but you can check my other essays in regards to that. the main thing i wanted to point out is that what remus says to logan in the end, "woowee logan, now you're speaking my language. but who do you really want to scream that at?", proves he is more deliberate and cunning than he seems.

a lovely bit of analysis my friend orb (@orbmanson7) provided is that remus didn't just pop up in wtit to intervene with thomas' plans. he was there to intervene with logan's. if you've seen my other essays, i've talked about how logan as a side has been dwindling in terms of self-confidence and assertion. this has left a big problem of thomas being more reliant on his emotions, making him ignore the suggestions given by logan that may help with thomas' mental health in the long run. this is not to villainize thomas' mental health crisis, btw. all i want to say is that, remus recognizes how logan's self-restriction is doing no good and deliberately wants to push logan to become more assertive and angry.

that is why he says logan is speaking his language. he wants logan to recognize the merit in the way remus grabs thomas' attention. he wants logan to be like him and cause more havoc. again, we never know how much remus genuinely wants to help thomas, but we know that remus wants everyone to be more exposed to "taboo" things, and this includes logan being more in touch with his angrier side.

besides that, i'd like to mention how, in general, remus tends to be very committed to his goals more than how the fandom typically portrays him? in dwit, remus' main goal was to disturb thomas and the other sides. it's kind of just an introduction to his character. we're not sure if it's part of a bigger plan he and janus devised to get thomas to take care of himself better, but it is a possibility. the only time he gets too random is when logan begins picking apart his arguments. there we see remus only results to super left-field, continuous off-tangent jokes when he's desperate or placed in a lose-lose situation.

another, in wtit, we see how remus understands how to make very long, complicated traps. i think it's a perfect encapsulation of his personality, actually! throughout the episode, we see him make these multilayered traps with a ton of props and preparation just so he can bother thomas with it. it shows that remus is actually less impulsive-oriented as he seems. he even created a schedule he showed to logan detailing everything he wanted to do that day. again, deliberate! he is deliberate and very smart!

other thing i'd like to harken back to is the idea that he's in cahoots with the other dark sides to execute some Big Plan to break thomas out of his black and white thinking. while we don't know how orange acts like yet, we're Very familiar with janus by this point and we can see how long-drawn janus' plan of acceptance is. he's, again, sorry to use the word so many times, very deliberate. i don't even think his plan ends with svs.r, because it does seem like remus is well in on this plan too. in the 5 years video, he also seems to know more than thomas on what else is to come for the future of sanders sides, which implies he has some plans up his sleeve that no one else knows about. like i said, janus has the goal to break thomas out of his black and white thinking. and so far from what we've seen from remus, he also wants the same!

an important factor of remus' character besides his deliberateness is his general need to subvert what "goodness" means. "good and bad are all made up nonsense," he sings in forbidden fruit. throughout dwit he continuously criticizes everything thomas thinks is good or acceptable. in the 5 years video, he argues about how there's no "correct way of sitting". i think this also proves how remus is important as a side because, while not every single one of his beliefs are morally acceptable, he is still able to pick morality apart in a way the other sides are unable to. also, i just think this proves his character as just. generally smart? he's able to pick apart the status quo and moral philosophies, of course he's smart.

just to pick up on a previous point, remus is scarily perceptive. i mentioned this earlier with how remus is able to pick logan apart, but i'd like to add onto it more since i think a lot of people underestimate how crazily perceptive he is. for one, despite not being too close with a bunch of the other sides, he seems to be able to read their insecurities and play them against them really well. we see it in the way he uses virgil's insecurities of being an ex-dark side against him. we see it in the way he picks on patton and thomas' morality crisis against them. we see it in the way roman describes remus as someone being able to show him things he doesn't like about himself. and most importantly, we see it in the way remus constantly reaps the fact that logan isn't listened to to the point that logan snaps. as intrusive thoughts, remus' job is to see what deepest darkest secrets thomas and the sides suppress and use it against them.

at the moment, we don't really know if remus has any weaknesses, although wtit sort of implies that he himself is also quite irritated by the fact that thomas doesn't listen to him. he does a good way of hiding, though, how much of that problem is genuinely affecting him. it makes me think he's also smart in the way he's able to hide his vulnerabilities and true intentions from the other side. he's silly and goofy and lewd and because of that, everyone thinks he's harmless. the sides think he's unserious, and so does the fandom. but deep down, remus really isn't that stupid. 

and LASTLY, when beta reading this essay, orb also mentioned to me about how remus possesses cognitive flexibility in a way roman doesn’t. this isn’t meant to discredit roman of course, but i think it’s important to mention that remus is the side with the least amount of restrictions when it comes to creative liberties. orb mentioned to me how remus is able to connect concepts easily in a way roman doesn’t because remus doesn’t operate under the same self-restrictive mindset. while this obviously would help thomas become more innovative as a creative, i think it’s also important to recognize how much thomas kind of needs it in general. much of the latter half of the series shows thomas dealing with restrictions, especially when it comes to doing good. it would be great benefit for thomas to be able to listen to a side who generally wants to Have a Good Time, and doesn’t abide by rules imposed onto them.

and yes that is my essay on remus 100/10 best character and is not dumb at all. very excited to see him in the finale and i hope y’all’s get your characterizations straight because i need me some good fics 

[thatonelesbianfander]

Istg bro, the TS critical crowd makes me want to rip my skin off my fucking face sometimes. Like I get that we’ve been waiting for the finale for a while now, but can we at least appreciate that we’re… IDK… ACTUALLY FUCKING GETTING CONTENT?!

Like, yes, it is annoying that we have to wait this long for the season 2 finale, but it’s not like Thomas just up and abandoned the series and isn’t making other Sanders Sides content. Since the last official episode (WTIT, and yes, WTIT is the last official episode, as Thomas has stated that it was incorrectly labeled upon release), Sanders Sides has had a bunch of extra content posted to both YouTube and Patreon, live streams with the characters, short videos with the characters, a bunch of merch drops, and more. Some fandoms have it worse. For example, Skylanders has gotten jackshit, Gravity Falls has only gotten a few short videos, and some books, and Steven Universe has only gotten content from Rebecca Sugar’s TikTok account. These fandoms barely have any mainline canon content, yet you don’t see anyone from those fandoms whining about how long it’s been since the last episode/game.

I get that it’s annoying to have to wait for so long, but can we at least appreciate the stuff we are getting and understand why it’s taking so long instead of just complaining?!

[artfinderartist]

Have some Analogince that I did for @monkeythefander (They are really cool check them out!) and I used their Analoginceweek2024 prompt! I posted this a bit ago on my IG if you want to check that out as well!

I’m posting my newer stuff I had on IG to hopefully sustain till I finish that WTIT drawing-

Man aren’t these gay men just the cutest

[justyourtypicaltuesday]

So What's Up With Logan? - a speculating post for the season 2 finale

While I, like everyone else, am anticipating the season finale, I thought I might as well summarise my thoughts in a post.

In LNTAO, Logan outright explains he's irritated with being repeatedly ignored.

"There will be times in which I must be heeded and given our... current circumstances... I clearly haven't been."

This really stands out to me. It's no secret that due to being consistently talked over, shut up and disregarded, Logan's struggling to deal with his emotions- and keep up the facade he puts up pretending he doesn't have any. This is only evidenced further when he throws paper at Roman. But this quote almost feels like foreshadowing, suggesting that there will come a time Logan's the only side with the right answer, and because of the sides and c!Thomas' practice, they won't listen to him and will exacerbate the problem doing so.

Another interesting quote from LNTAO is hidden in plain sight- the overlapping verses from Logan and Thomas in Incomplete.

"This just serves as a testament to the fact that you have a temperament, which is fine, you just haven't accepted it, if you'd let them finish they'd get to the-"

"This just serves as a testament to the fact that to me you're negligent, which is fine, it just works to your detriment, you not letting me finish is proving my-"

Both verses here provide context into Logan's character. This confirms that c!Thomas is fully aware that Logan has emotions, specifically a temper, and that, in his eyes, the song was an attempt to get Logan to accept that part of himself. This could be setting up a very powerful scene in the finale, Janus and/or Thomas confronting Logan at a point when Logan pretending he doesn't have emotions is actually damaging Thomas as a whole.

Additionally, Logan feels neglected by Thomas. That's a word which is not used lightly. He points out that being ignored is actively causing detriment to Thomas, which he conveniently doesn't hear as he's talking (singing?) over him at this point in time.

They're both right. Logan is ignored to the point of detriment, but he also thinks highly of himself ("I'm the most important side here!") and often disregards the others' contributions until he's actively proven wrong. This is a repeated character flaw of Logan's. It's also seen Growing Up, Moving On, and even in Asides like Can Plushies Improve Our Health?. While Logan's been the cause of minor conflicts in the series, having him cause a problem on a scale similar to Patton in POF would be intriguing to see from a narrative standpoint. It's clear that in the latest episodes, Logan is struggling and maybe at some point soon, constantly being antagonised by c!Thomas and the other sides is going to have an effect.

This brings me to WTIT. This is the last plot-dependent episode we've had, so it naturally is where a lot of my theories are coming from. While we can see a lot of Logan's progress as a character- specifically in prioritising Thomas' mental health- we also see his lowest point so far. Thomas' mental health has been steadily declining since SvS, introducing Remus, the discussions during POF and this episode all make it obvious. And this is reflected in Logan. Despite taking precautions and relaxing the schedule so Thomas feels comfortable, Logan loses his cool when he yells at Remus. What the orange eyes mean is TBD, but Logan's emotions in that moment say one thing and one thing only: he can't keep it down much longer. Each time we see Logan lately, he's been more and more distressed. In LTNAO, he throws paper at Roman, in SvS he's left out. In DWIT he's exasperated the whole time trying to calm down the others. In POF he's clearly done with exerting any amount of effort getting them to listen to him. And here is the result of all that pent up anger.

"I just want to help Thomas become the best version of himself he can be, and in order to do that, he needs to listen to me. Unlike yours, my methods aren't the flashiest, and it's not very often I get the chance to get through to him. Please understand my insistence on the matter."

The words right before his outburst mean a lot too. Logan's been already established as a perfectionist, but here he outwardly admits his goal is to improve Thomas as much as possible. We've already seen c!Thomas second-guessing himself because of difference in opinion between sides, so here's an opportunity to explore Janus v Logan conflict. Logan questioning Janus' advice to Thomas to take it easy could mean that the rest isn't as effective as it could be and cause a problem they'll need to discuss. Logan's been largely absent from Janus-related episodes, so an argument in which Janus explains Thomas has worth as he is while Logan is focused on perfectionism and improvement is not unbelievable at this point in the story.

On the topic of Janus, I believe he's going to play a huge role in Logan's character development. The main thing holding Logan back is that he's lying to himself. He repeatedly insinuates and sometimes outwardly states that he doesn't have feelings, and both c!Thomas and Janus know this is a lie.

"I don't feel anything."

"Oh, of course you don't."

My theory is that Janus, as practically a living lie detector, is going to confront the sides about the lies they tell themselves, and being more truthful about themselves will help Thomas long-term. While this can be explored for each side, I'll save that for a post for another day and point out how specifically Logan's lie about not having feelings is already questioned multiple times in the series, setting it up to be confronted soon.

In conclusion, my speculations for the season finale are:

Logan's going to have another outburst- in full view of c!Thomas and the other sides this time, and it will have to be addressed.

Janus/Thomas and Logan are going to confront each other, Logan over being repeatedly ignored and sidelined, and the others over Logan consistently lying about not feeling emotions.

Logan is going to be the outright antagonist in at least one episode of the finale, along the lines of Patton in POF.

On the contrary, in one episode Logan will have the right answer, but be ignored because... well, duh.

Janus v Logan conflict is going to be a large plot point- addressing perfectionism and to what extent you should accept yourself as you are and to what extent you need to work on growth.

If you got this far, thanks for reading. It's my first post as a blog and I hope you enjoyed reading my guesses to what we'll see surrounding Logan in the finale. I'm planning on continuing with in-depth analysis of other sides and other theories I have, but so far this is what I've gathered in regards to Logan's direction at this point in the series.

[amazable01]

God, I've been thinking about Remus and Patton in canon, but I haven't known what to say, but now with the finale being worked on, I feel like this is a good time to talk about this. Cause if you go back with a fresh mind (blocking out fanon concepts and just watching the actual material), Remus and Patton don't hate each other at all. In fact, in a platonic/foil kind of way, I think they complete each other, and work well together like Roman and Logan.

Remus never once in canon has insulted Patton. He has offered up uncomfortable ideas, but if anything, Remus has encouraged Patton. He gives him a creative blessing for sanitizing, and seems genuinely confused and surprised when Logan brings up Patton being an issue. Remus and Patton also bounce off one another, what with the creative thing in DWIT, but also in the asides with the "kill-joyman" bit and their interactions in the incorrect quotes (and who can forget the air fryer and Remus being genuinely excited and curious about it). Remus never intentionally goes after Patton, and when you would expect him to lash out at Morality, it's said to the group instead of him directly.

And if you look at Remus' few appearances in canon, Patton's presence actually seems to temper him slightly. DWIT, WMPG (Christmas 2023), incorrect quotes, and the asides are VERY light compared to WTIT. While you could call it a change in approach, it's really not. Remus always behaves this way toward Logan specifically, and in WTIT he is intentionally pushing the other far beyond his comfort. Patton not being brought up to help the issue intentionally makes Logan's problem with Remus worse. Which implies Remus does change his behavior slightly around Patton.

But, if Sanders Sides has shown anything across its run, it's to not underestimate the intelligence of any approach or person, regardless of how smart they appear on the surface.

So if Remus was trying to stoke what he imagines is important, he's not going to intentionally kill Thomas' drive by driving him to the brink. I think a lot of people forget that Patton is passion, not Roman. Roman is romantic and creative, but Patton is the actual feeling of passion and motivation for a project. And without that, Roman (and likely Remus) are just thoughts that get lost. And so it makes perfect sense for Remus to not actually hate Patton. Because Patton has never done anything to him, and is the only way that Remus can actually have his thoughts voiced out.*

*Remember that the Split is not canonical or confirmed. There's nothing saying that something like that happened, as Logan said it was "Like an ovum" which would imply this was how they were born. On top of this, if Remus was mad at anyone for separating out the sides like the Split implies, it would be Janus because he decided what was allowed and safe to be known. Patton probably was a contributing factor, but knowing how Patton reacts to changes in environment and nostalgia, I doubt Patton would've actively chosen to change something so drastically. I could make a whole post about this and why the Split isn't really corroborated in canon, but that's another discussion for another time.

[where-are-the-spooky-gays-2]

Saw a post just now that was like "haha been so long since a ss episode that C!Thomas changed his apartment layout" and I thought "teehee silly post made in a tongue in cheek way how fun"

But then in the replies,,, op was making fun of people who "believe there will be a finale" and basically calling them dumb for thinking the series was being continued at this point?? removed my like so fast 💀

-🐀

I know exactly which post you're talking about and I'm gonna say this right now that I have not seen a single TS Crit who isn't like that. They'll say shit about the fandom "harassing them" for being even the slightest critical over Thomas but then proceed to say the most fucked up shit about us being "delusional" for "believing" there's gonna be a new episode or that we're being "brainwashed" by supporting him and it's like okay we get it you're lowkey ableist and fucking hate the man and the series why the fuck are you still here??? Like y'all will continue to bitch about being tired of waiting when you can literally leave and the ones who supposedly "moved on from the series and fandom" will continuously make jokes about how we're "still waiting for main series content" and yet y'all were the same ones pretending you didn't say shit/taking your words back once WTIT came out. Literally everytime the fandom assumes Thomas' vague tweets are a Sides vid he consistantly reassures with a follow up tweet that he would be more direct if it were a scripted vid (Y'know like how he did last week) he's not "baiting" anyone y'all will just go off of one tweet screenshot on here and start saying bullshit.

[sanderssidesthehouse]

Remus is my favorite side and I am collecting people's opinions about him. For the bingo?

-Birch

Hiya, Birch! Consider my opinion collected!

Circle size represents how much I resonate with or feel confidently about an answer.

Going to address the not liking him as a person (vs adoring him as a character) before I go any further. Just like, if I knew a person who acted like him irl (which would probably be a neglected 13 y/o) I wouldn't really like them. Wouldn't necessarily hold it against them, but understanding someone and/or wanting to help someone is not the same as liking them. Sides aren't exactly comparable to people, though.

I think about Remus so frequently. My absolute favorite we've seen of him was WTIT. It definitely gave us more to work with, particularly with how much he hates being ignored. Bc like, yeah he's a side and he needs to be able to do his function, but his function and subsequently himself have been repressed which has warped everything and tbh I'd act like that too.

I NEED him and Roman to work together bc wtf. I need them both to be mad bc like we're going to have to address at some point why there are two sides that manage Creativity? Um? But skipping past that bc we are where we are, they should be able to work together. Also going to link a post I made about creativitwins bc it's too long to quote here which has more of my thoughts about Remus's job as part of Creativity.

Remus is literally an alarm. He shows up when things are bad... And makes them worse, but!!!!! He's a clue to get to the root problem. Also, as someone who suffers from disturbing and upsetting intrusive thoughts, I'd love to see dealing with Remus through creation, bc honestly him having a hold of Creativity is perfect. One way to get through intrusive thoughts is the mindful meditation technique, another is by ejecting them via art/writing. I think that would be fun.

Some people think Remus is annoying. And? As is his right? No, but seriously, he's been neglected up until we see him appear, suppressed except for where his influence slips out, honestly, he could be MORE annoying if he wanted. Get their asses.

One characterization I see people give him is that he doesn't care, but if nothing else, there is one thing he absolutely has to care about: c!Thomas. I mentioned this in my unreliable narrator post in relation to Janus, but it stands for all of them: “Sides of Thomas will always seek to perform their duties to help Thomas.” I don't believe the sides can purposely seek to hurt c!Thomas. They're not people, they're part of a person.

Speaking of that post, I'm just going to copy paste my Remus paragraph bc I can:

And last we have Remus. This guy. Beautiful boy. All about being brutally honest except he’s just not lying. Except for when he is. I swear he just says stuff recreationally and like, me too, but at least I admit it. He’s got that Brennan Lee Mulligan 'I will die on any hill’ vibe methinks. The problem is that he says the actual profound truths in the same tone he does the shitposts so no one takes it seriously. And I swear to you this is on purpose, I can’t prove it, but tell me honestly you don’t think that’s something he’d do. Rat bastard.

Idk if I've said everything I wanted to. I've probably said enough for this post, though. As always, feel free to tag on or ask questions or whatever else!

[keitaisghost]

I just had a thought right now about the orange side. We know that orange has some resemblance to Logan and usually shows up when Logan is mad. And we all know that every side has some good and bad aspects for c!Thomas. I personally think that orange has something to do with shame or at least has something to do with people not wanting to realize their wrong.

In LNTAO, Roman makes fun of Logan because Logan had put the word *figuratively* in his sentence. Therefore that led on to Logan throwing paper at Roman.

Now, in WTIT, Logan is upset that Remus is ignoring him, and so he gets upset.

Also, thanks to @analoceits theory(thank you for your theory) about the orange side, I made a better connection for my train of thought. In their post, they said, "Logan is logic, yes, but he is also anger now." And that made me think. You know something that people don't like? Being corrected or being shamed for something they do or have done. Which leads to anger or denial.

Orange has shown up when Logan was shamed by Roman and ignored by Remus. People would get upset when overshadowed or made fun of.

Next, let's talk about Roman. Roman is c!Thomas's ego and creativity. We've seen Roman lose some ego and not believe Thomas when he said Roman is his hero. Sometimes, people feel shameful when they are corrected or their ego is bruised.

And because Roman feels hurt, c!Thomas's ego might also feel hurt. Logan is his logical side, and when someone's logic is usually contradicted, they would feel ashamed and mad or they would feel lied to when their wrong.

These events happening are likely the reason orange is showing up more recent(also Janus being here, but that's beside the point)

[yourchemicallyimbalancedromance]

The Time Will Come

Prompt: 17. “You’re shaking like a leaf, are you okay?” (Credit to @/dumplingsjinson for this idea that I found from their hurt/comfort prompt list which you can find here<3)

Summary: post WTIT, Logan goes to an unsuspected side to garner their help.

Ship: platonic analogical

CW/TW: anxiety

———————————————————————

Logan rose up in the anxious sides room, pad of paper still in hand, exhausted and aggravated.

Virgil hadn’t heard him come in, the music from his headphones preventing him from being able to hear much of anything. He was sketching on his bed and mumbling the words to the song he was listening to to himself. This was his way of coping through the unease that rippled its way through Thomas because of Remus’ actions.

Logan stood there, waiting for Virgil to notice him. He didn’t want to bother him but he didn’t really feel as if he had anyone else to go to. Roman was busy rehearsing lines for a play, Patton was free but he was just…too sentimental, and Remus and Janus? No. Absolutely not.

Virgil could feel someone looking at him and looked up, quickly jumping back. “GAH!” he removed his headphones and took a second to catch his breath. “Jesus fucking Christ, Logan, you could’ve said something.”

“Apologies. I was wondering if we could converse about something important” he said, setting his pad of paper on Virgil’s desk. His hands were shaking.

Virgil recognized this subtle action as something Logan only did when he was overwhelmed with emotion. It’s funny, In a sick way. Logan was the one who taught him and the rest of the sides that suppression wasn’t helpful, yet he continued to put on this emotionless persona daily.

“God, you’re shaking like a leaf, are…you okay?” He asked, concerned.

Logan shook his head, suddenly all of the thoughts in his head were jumbled, he couldn’t speak. “I— Thomas keeps— Remus—“ he tried on multiple different ways of starting his sentence before he couldn’t stand upright, the shaking getting worse, tears in his eyes. He felt embarrassed, this wasn’t how he wanted this to go.

Virgil rushed to his side and held him as he collapsed into his arms. “It’s okay, you’re okay, breathe.” He says warmly.

“he won’t listen to me.” He said, taking deep breaths and composing himself. He stopped shaking and sat on the edge of Virgil’s bed.

“Logan, you need to talk to him. Not only is this effecting you, but all of us. Pushing down how you feel does nothing but make it worse.” Virgil says. He didn’t want to be so brutally honest with him, but he had no choice, enough was enough.

“I am the Logical side, Virgil, not the anxious side. I’m fine. I’m more concerned with Thomas’ procrastination issue.” Logan responds

“Really? Because the borderline breakdown you just had speaks otherwise.” He retorts. He winced a little at how cutting his voice sounded.

“The house is a mess I just need him to—“

“The house is a mess because Thomas is, same thing for you. You have emotions, Logan. I’m sorry but you have to face it just like the rest of us. The house is one of the lowest things on my list of priorities right now. You need to talk to him.”

“Fine.” Logan replied half-heartedly.

———————————————————————

After his initial conversation with Virgil, Logan found Thomas sitting in the living room re-watching Parks and Recreation with Nico. It was his 17th time rewatching it and he kept pointing out his favorite parts while Nico laughed.

It had been a few hours since their venture downtown and Logan didn’t want to intrude on their date. Or more-so, he was afraid to.

Eventually Thomas walked into the kitchen where Logan was standing, sipping his coffee, going over the script in his head. He was at the part where he was explaining the issue to Thomas when present Thomas interrupted him.

“Hey, Logan im sorry about earlier, I promise I’ll get back on schedule soon.” He says

Logan gave him a stoic look. “Thomas, we need to talk about this. I think your procrastination levels are just growing increasingly more high by the day. Why is that?”

“I really don’t want to talk about this right now, I just wanted to let you know that I would, eventually, be getting back on—“

“Thomas, this is extremely important. I’m tired of you pushing me off to the side.” Logan interrupted him, flustered.

Thomas stared at him, shocked, a hurt look on his face. “I wasn’t trying to do that I just don’t want to—“

“Forget about it.” Logan says, cutting him off, watching Thomas’ face go from hurt to heartbroken. He couldn’t find it within himself to care, he was too tired, too maddened with Thomas’ apparent need to not listen to him.

He sinks back down into Virgil’s room, sitting on his bed, just as he was earlier.

Virgil looks up, and Logan doesn’t even have to say anything before Virgil just wraps his arms around him and holds him close. “He’ll listen soon. I promise. I know what it’s like to not feel heard.”

Logan nods and lets himself be held. Usually he’s not one for psychical touch, or any kind of show of affection for that matter, but he needed this. He really needed this.

“Thank you, Virgil.”

[subhuman-and-feedable]

I finally got around to listening to “We Could Fly” by Sam Sparro (the song Logan puts on to help Thomas refocus it WTIT). first thing I noticed was that the line is “stop trying to hold the world” not “stop trying to rule the world” second thing I noticed was how much the song resembles certain scenes from that video. I don’t wanna make a super long post, so just listen to the song, because it’s incredible.