#possible reference to fanlore in official works

[catulhu333]

Hordak and the Unnamed One in SPOP

As in the title, it's interesting it's specifically noted that in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power Hordak started out as literally Unnamed (something noted in the series) and only took on the name Hordak some time after coming to Etheria. Making me wonder if this is a coincidence (more probable), or a reference to a fan theory that in the 1986 Powers of Grayskull storyline, Hordak was the Unnamed One, instead of Gorpo, or as was to be the case in the 200X comics (kinda) Horde Prime. (I elaborated on this theory in my discussion with @lemaistrechat here). Though as I discussed with @toonjukka , the identity of the Unnamed One in 80s seemed to had been undecided.

SPOP did reference some obscure lore, and even maybe fan lore/theories - up to for example, in Origin of Hero, the novelization of The Sword two part pilot, Octavia, in what is meant to be an offensive and insulting joke, suggested Catra (and probably her kind) are from Beast Isle...and in gbagok's fan lore, Catra was from Beast Isle, and the book possibly referenced it in a creative way...

Still, like the Unnamed, and Hordak in He-Man and She-Ra Power Tour lead Snake Men, SPOP Hordak' forces were in large part composed of Rogelio's lizard men species, being kinda Snake Men like (if separate from them), with Rogelio and the rest of his kind seemingly being inspired by the prototype design of Rattlor, as is some of Rogelio's characterization.

Still, this would be just a reference then - Hordak rather wasn't present on ancient Eternia/Preternia, seeing it's strongly implied Hordak is relatively young in SPOP/not ancient. (Unless the portal to Despondos/Etheria transported him 500 to 1000 years into the future..., but that's just a rather a pretty improbable theory).

[seenashwrite]

Again! Sorry for another question, and I hope this doesn't bother you... But I was wondering what a one-shot word count average is? I usually end up doing about 1000 - 1500 words as I get caught up in my writing hehe, but is that too long? Should I stick to around 500 or so? Hope this doesn't bother you too much!

Oh Spookster, you are not a bother in the least. I am glad you ask. Because I - and please, everyone sit down to hear this - did not know the complete deets on these by-word-count categorizations off the top of my head. I have a ballpark idea, of course, but still I tasked the interns with doing a lil’ digging.

Ah - while I’ve got ya - the interns [we’ll call them “Sham” and “Green”, the former who professed proficiency at research & the latter who appears to not know how to collate it at all] clarified some word vomit & added a point on Beta Readers which was left out in the answer to your first query. Moving on.

Let us take this moment to ask the fanfic writers of Tumblr their thoughts/what they were taught/what they’ve seen because TL;DR: there isn’t a formal, organized, academic-type fanfic-based collective with enough of a population of experts [and there would need to be criteria for what that means] for peer review and the like, ergo there cannot be any substantive consensus.   

WHEN authors label/categorize their work on word count around here, these are the ones *I* have personally seen + what the “sources” below have claimed -  

Drabble = 100 [some say “Exactly 100!” & to that Nash says “Suck it!”] 

One-Shot = N/A [it’s one-and-done, length is irrelevant]

Multi-Part = N/A [length of each chapter irrelevant; know your audience’s attention span, cater to that]

Series = N/A [reasoning same as above]

Poem/Poetry = N/A [reasoning same as above]

Big Bang = a minimum is given by organizers; may be 20K, may be 50K, point is it’s the… um…. biggest

Prose = ya got me, because “prose” is just “story”, it’s not some special sub-type [”the ordinary form of spoken or written language, without metrical structure, as distinguished from poetry or verse”. And, PS? A secondary take can also be “dull, ordinary, commonplace, plain”, even “tedious”. I’d hesitate to call something of mine “prose” unless it had a qualifier like “melodic prose” or “poetic prose” or something] 

This was a nutters hunt, right up there with crazed insects & sperm-donor poor-excuse-for-amazon daughters & the like. And you’re talking to a deep-diving, source ‘em if you got ‘em, just-the-facts-ma’am research hound. If it’s to be found, I can more often than not sniff it out. 

My nose might have gotten bent on this one. 

First things first: in the field of academia to which I am accustomed, anything at the five-year mark is pushing it, anything beyond that should likely stick to referring to it in a study/article/etc. as a “here’s what we knew then” sort of thing, in order to set the scene for the current hypotheses/results/etc. That’s why I include the dates when able, just FYI.

⦁ Trickster.org - “symposium article” from 2006 - “When Size Matters: Story Terminology as Determined by Word Count” 

Opener: “Drabbles are a bit of a hot topic, and I’ve run across a few debates started by people who don’t like them. Now, this is nothing unusual in fandom, there seems to be at least one person who doesn’t like any given thing, and I usually just shrug my shoulders and move on. The problem with the drabble debates, however, lies in how people are defining drabbles.” 

[Nash Note: Seems to be a transcript of a speech, but it was a horrific, rambling eyesore, I’d never recommend anyone go through it, and the fact that this person was considered expert enough to give commentary on the topic of writing is bone-chilling disturbing. I am not exaggerating this, it is one of the most poorly-conveyed run-downs of what current standings/thoughts are in a given field that I’ve ever come upon. I hope there were some kickin’ visual aids.]

C&Ping the main points that were stated with some sort of conviction:

A drabble is a story of exactly 100 words 

“It’s debatable as to whether or not the title is included but the limit itself is not debatable” 

“the common definition I’ve seen allows for one to fifteen extra words for the title ”

[Nash note: in various spots, they then proceed to tell about how these things *are* debatable in the fanfic community - much as they noted right off in the intro. Which is the topic. Fanfiction. Not “pro-lit”. Which should’ve been there just for touch-and-move-on comparative purposes. Not the bulk of the talk. Which it was.]

A drabble and a half is exactly 150 words

A double drabble is 200 words, and anything over that really stops being a drabble, but in fandom, any story in increments of 50 words is often still referred to as some permutation of drabble, i.e. double drabble and a half, triple drabble, triple drabble and a half, quad-drabble, etc. 

Even in fandom, however, the key is that your word count is exactly on that 50 word increment mark, otherwise you are not writing a drabble of any kind

“In the pro-lit[erary] world…”:  [just knock me out now]

any story under 500 words is flash fiction. 

fic under 500 words that is not exactly 100 words, the term you want is flash fiction. Or even flashfic, or minute fic, or sudden fic, postcard fic, fast fic, quick fic, and a few others. 

none of those alternatives are drabble.

over 500 words, but under 1000, is generally known as a short short. 

Some magazines and anthologies actually use short short and flash fiction interchangeably, because of space constraints

1000 and over, up to 17500, is a short story

“So, just to review….”  [sigh]

100 words = drabble

500 words and under = flash fiction

500-1000 words = short short

1000-15000 words = short story

17500 = novella/novelette

40000 = novel

vignette = nothing to do with word count; typically under 1000 words; the significant thing is theme - meant to give illumination - one character or the relationship between two or more characters; typically don’t involve a lot of action; some have limited dialogue

[Nash co-signs “vignette” definition]

⦁ Save the Drabble - 2005/6

This one has 2 sources and one of them is the person above - the other is another LJ community. This is a circle-jerk. No new info given. We move on.

⦁ Fanlore

This is a hodge-podge that made my eye twitch a bit, but at least they have more info and background on the terms.

They re-hash the “drabble debate” of it having to be precisely 100 words.

They are the first that brought up another term I see around T-Town which is Big Bang 

“A Big Bang is a specific type of challenge usually involving long fics and accompanying artwork.This type of challenge is a reprise of the old zine tradition of collaboration between artists and writers for internet fandoms.” 

They note that back in ‘zine land it was a minimum of 50K, then in another place they say “the consensus” went to a minimum of 20K

[Nash Note: I gotta eschew my formatting, I’ve met my allotted time for this answer, as more peeps lie in wait for their Dear Nash to be addressed! I linked the blogbelow the other day because It. Is. Fantastic. This is what I was able to find for fanfic related terminology on lengths, threw in a couple other goodies, too - go over there and see if you have better luck pulling up with other search terms, entirely possible I wasn’t hitting the nail on the head with mine]

Writing Questions Answered - Tumblr

One result for “drabble”:

http://writing-questions-answered.tumblr.com/search/drabble

Doesn’t talk about length

One result for “one-shot”:

http://writing-questions-answered.tumblr.com/post/45179836171/fan-fiction-how-to-write-a-one-shot-fanfic

“A one-shot fanfic is a standalone story that is one chapter long and focuses on a single situation or event, usually from just one character’s point-of-view. There is no official length for a one-shot, but typically they are between 1,000 and 8,000 words long.” 

Length in general in the published world:

http://writing-questions-answered.tumblr.com/post/108997534333/advice-short-chapters-not-sure-about-word-count

Target length depends on what you’re writing:

Short Story - 1k - 7500 k

Novella - 20k - 50k

Novel-

Middle Grade 25k - 40k

Young Adult 45k - 80k

New Adult: 60k - 85k

Adult 65k - 120k

….and reinforces that nobody should or really does [in the pro world] care about chapter lengths - depends on what’s going on in the chapter. Nash side note on this? Know your audience. The younger they get, the less attention span - not that they can’t or won’t knock out a big book in the long-run, but you don’t want them to grow frustrated along the way, possibly checking out or worse, stopping altogether.  

Talks more about standards for professional lengths:

http://writing-questions-answered.tumblr.com/post/62254683880/advice-story-feels-rushed

Really good piece on “nevers” and “always” when it comes to “dos” and “don'ts”.

http://writing-questions-answered.tumblr.com/post/147225002823/a-quick-psa-about-writing-rules

I agree. And for me, there’s certainly lots of good advice out there, you’ll find some of it is objectively true, but on the other hand, it may be worth trying your hand at various things to see what (a) sticks with your target audience, and (b) speaks to your personal style. 

Plus - in my experience - there’s some “nevers” that I suspect got popular due to propagation by people who just don’t do whatever it is terribly well. [shrugs]

Chuckspeed, my friend. So sayeth the Nash, so say we all.