#please support 23.5

[mongtji]

milk pansa in 8BOTSBOYZ - ดีกว่าไหม (Let Me Know) music video ◆

[visualtaehyun]

Okay y'all listen- I know most Thai QL viewers on this site don't care about GMMTV's concerts and the general reaction here to the announcement of a Last Twilight concert looked to be a resounding Uhh why?

But this is literally a way to test the waters for NamtanFilm!

Look at the promo material and the ad spot! Even during the live show for Last Twilight's final episode, Namtan was already intentionally caught between her on-screen partner Mark and her future co-star Film. And both the English and Thai comments on the livestream the Last Twilight cast did the other day are full of NamtanFilm mentions. :)

This concert opportunity is huge! All their BL actors have been getting fan meetings and concerts and the like for years now but this is a first for GMMTV's actresses, as far as I'm aware.

(from this bts video of shooting the "Last Twilight New Dawn Live On Stage" spot)

So if you like GL, if you like Namtan and Film, or if you wanna support GMMTV actresses by showing the higher-ups that fans will show up for them and want them to have more opportunities like this - thinking about 23.5 here as well!! - then this. Is. The. Chance! If you have and use Twitter, please tweet about them along with the concert hashtags or like and retweet other fans' tweets about them (xitter is sadly THE place to be to support Thai artists). If you can spare the money, consider buying a livestream ticket. But most importantly please engage with any content and official posts about the concert featuring the girls, talk about them (and their performances!) on any socials, and tell other GL fans.

As I said, this isn't even just about NamtanFilm as a koojin (and thus Pluto), it's also about making noise for more GL content. Considering the trailer for 23.5 came out today, the possibility of a final episode live show, fan meetings, a concert etc. featuring MilkLove and ViewJune are on my mind as well now. I for one have been waiting for the GMMTV girls to get the same opportunities and hype the guys have been getting, so I've just been lying in wait, armed with pots and pans, to start being obnoxiously loud about my girls 😤

[guzhufuren]

some personal conclusions i made after finishing 23.5

- aylinluna were lovely and hopefully viewjune will get another go in a more grown up gl next year. let them stay weirdos though

- gmmtv has a huge amount of talented actresses and they need to fucking learn how to use them and put more women in series

- gmmtv must give Euro actual queer romance, they gave me a tiny taste of fat gay boy getting loved and i demand more

- Godji and Golf please. adult trans women yuri PLEASE. the world is ready. gmmtv has 2 transfem directors' services available to them, wouldn't that be beautiful?

- while Ton was annoying at times, AJ was incredibly charming and is quite ready to be a lead of his own show. i've been begging for 4 years for a romcom about twins with him and JJ where they would be confusing their boyfriends by swapping or something. i. need. it

- gls are in their stumbling around like a newborn baby deer era and we must be more forgiving towards them because thai bls had over 6 years of testing the waters and gls aren't even on their Theory Of Love/Tharntype stage yet. let creators spread their wings and learn, criticise but still support them

[bengiyo]

23.5 Ep 1 Stray Thoughts

Well, it's taken forever but we're finally here. Let's watch the Milk/Love GL.

Wow are we starting with a UMG joke??

So glad they taught Love how to drive a motorcycle for this show.

Episode 1: The Sun and The Earth

I'm glad this family of sisters has a cousin who's super deep on science and science fiction.

Wow, Ongsa is too gay to function.

I forget how young some of these kids still are. Ford looks like he's grown since MSP.

LOL this teacher is funny.

Whoa! They're reading Ender's Game! Look at the classic cover!!

WELCOME BACK, EURO!!! Please kill these boys.

Oh no. He accidentally hit our girl in the face.

Sun is very cool. I get it, Ongsa.

Classic lesbian content. Both girls' fathers have an affinity for them.

The moon and stars looked like a smile. That was cute.

That roll across the bed was incredible. I loved that.

Bullying in the modern age is so vicious because everyone is always online.

Love that the big sister has enough presence to scare these boys.

Euro has good comedic timing.

I'm okay with GMMTV being unsubtle about correcting bad behavior or reinforcing good interpersonal behavior in their shows.

This IG flirting was so funny. Ongsa is so gay that she forgot that heterosexuality is a thing. I understand and I support her.

This was a fun start! I like the casting so far and I'm curious where they go with two of our girls being misfits.

[the-conversation-pod]

GMMTV Breakfast Club: On 23.5 and Only Boo!

AND WE'RE BACK!

School's in at GMMTV, but we gotta put two series in detention for not fulfilling the assignment. The actors were charming, but the finishes were...rough. Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk 23.5 and Only Boo, the merits of high school stories, and the specific challenges of telling stories about queer high schoolers.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:01:15 - Introduction: Two High School Shows from GMMTV 00:02:18 - 23.5: Early Reactions 00:14:18 - 23.5: Supporting Characters 00:21:27 - 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and Execution 00:33:42 - 23.5: Final Arc and Ratings 00:38:42 - Only Boo! 00:48:06 - Only Boo: Popping the Bubble 00:58:42 - Only Boo: If You're Gonna Do An Idol Story, Commit 01:05:06 - Only Boo: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:08:45 - Outro: High School Blues

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 Introduction: Two High School Shows from GMMTV

Ben 

And we're back. This week we're going to be discussing 23.5 and Only Boo. We brought our friend Ginny along as usual. Say hi, Ginny.

Ginny 

Hey folks!

NiNi 

We are talking high school from GMMTV. Ben and I, in the VIIB Awards, we discussed that it might feel like GMMTV does high school a lot, but they don't actually. So it was really interesting to see them delve into these high school stories with, let's say, mixed results.

Ben 

It's kind of weird that GMMTV went from, like, not really doing high school to having two shows running simultaneously. It's kind of surprising from them, honestly.

NiNi 

Lest we forget to point it out, 23.5 is also GMMTV's first GL. I think in terms of that, that they handled it pretty well as a GL.

00:02:18 23.5: Early Reactions

NiNi

Ben, what is 23.5 about?

Ben 

23.5 is a high school GL about a young woman named Ongsa who is moving from Phuket to Bangkok. She's a fan of this girl on Instagram and happens to run into her very early in her new time at the school, develops a crush on her, accidentally befriends her through her IG, but gets presumed to be a guy, and then proceeds to high key catfish this girl [laughs] sorting out her feelings about whether or not she, could possibly like her.

She lives with her parents, her older sister, and their cousin who's the same age as her. Her cousin's very much an easy autism read who ends up in her own romance with her big cousin's friend. We end up in this show dealing with Ongsa's complicated feelings of self-worth and how in her tendency to put her own self down, she kind of lets down the people around her. At least I think that's what the show's trying to do.

Ginny, why don't you walk us through how you felt in anticipation of the show after it got announced a very long time ago.

Ginny 

So long ago. So Milk and Love, the two lead actresses, were, of course, the side couple in Bad Buddy. So it was no surprise that they were announced as the lead couple of the first GMMTV GL. I was very excited just to see GMMTV finally moving into this space. It's been good to see more studios open to producing GLs and GMMTV being one of the biggest, definitely wanted to see them do it. So, without really caring much about what the story was going to be, I just wanted to see them do a GL and do a decent job. I was not super invested in, oh, is this going to be a plot or a premise that really appeals to me? I was just like, let's have some girls fall in love and make a good story. 

It was a longer run up than I think a lot of people wanted. There was a lot of disgruntlement, some conspiracy theory feelings about it that I don't really hold to. I do think they were giving as much to this show as they do to their big flagship BL stories. Was very excited and also nervous tuning into the first episode because this clearly was going to be a weathervane for them to decide how much to invest in the GL side going forward.

NiNi 

It was over a year that we've waited and waited and waited for this. They had a really long shoot schedule. They were shooting this thing for an inordinate amount of time, and I think that for me, added to the anticipation. Because it felt like they were taking their time with it, so I was very excited about that. I like Milk, I like Love, I like June, I like View. I was really looking forward to watching all of them really get into this with a director and a team that I had enjoyed. This is from Fon Kanittha, and Fon did 10 Years Ticket, which is one of my favorite things that GMMTV has done. 

Ben, what about you? How were you anticipating this? What were you looking forward to about it? What were some of your concerns coming into it?

Ben 

I was admittedly really nervous about this show going into it. We had drama in the reactions to this show in just the original casting choices.Fourth and Gemini were originally announced as part of the cast for this, and then, looks like GMMTV shuffled some stuff because they wanted to prioritize the boys' availability for a different project because My School President was received apparently really well, at least enough for GMMTV to make some different decisions.

But there was a lot of drama in the English language reactions about not wanting BL paired boys in this at all. So I was worried from the get go that we were already having fights about the market that they were trying to pull in. And I was really nervous about what GMMTV was gonna do with this. I've bitched on this podcast quite a few times about when I think BL doesn't necessarily care that much about how queer their boys read and sometimes ship is more important than some sort of queer coming of age beat that they really wanna hit. I was really nervous about what that might look like for a GL because we don't have a framework for what that looks like. there's actually not a great deal of lesbian coming of age romance internationally, even, to pull from, and even within Thailand there's only a couple of projects that I can really refer to from like a lesbian film history. And most of those are for college girls. So there were a lot of big question marks for me going into this, so I actually went in with not a whole lot of expectation from this. I'm admittedly not familiar with Fon's work. I did not watch 10 Years Ticket. But I knew that folks like NiNi were really excited and wanted to see what Fon doing a GL would look like. 

So, there was a lot of anticipation and hope about what it could be, but I actually went in with very few expectations about what it might look like as a result.

NiNi 

So, Ginny, having those expectations and coming into the show, what were your first impressions of 23.5? What are some of the first things that you picked up on and maybe really enjoyed about it?

Ginny 

I loved the beginning. There were a couple different ways I was afraid that it might go wrong. One was that it would just feel like a gender flipped BL. Another was that it would be like overly softened and pastel in, especially what is usually labeled sapphic romance these days, frequently things are all very soft and delicate.

NiNi 

[laughs] Vaseline all over the lens and, like, nobody's talking too loud, yeah.

Ginny

Yeah, and I like to see women in stories, and especially women falling in love in stories feel as much like real people with all of the edges that real people have as boys get to do. So a thing that just thrilled me from episode 1 was what a mess Ongsa is. Ongsa played by Milk, incredible performance. Whatever criticisms, and we have many of the show, I think we can all agree that Milk was wonderful in this role and really did a phenomenal job of playing this tense and awkward and intensely self-conscious teenage lesbian that I saw so many people I know in. The way that she falls on the floor after having a phone message with her crush that's a little bit awkward but also positive and the way she would just flail around. The way it felt like she didn't quite know what to do with her body, like she's still growing and gangly and awkward, was just so beautifully done and I really enjoyed it. And it really did feel distinctly like girls as opposed to just, we're gonna do a BL but with wigs on.

I can't even put a finger on it, but there were so many little details that I was like, yes, this feels like young girls falling in love. The way that you feel about a pretty girl in school that you can barely even stand to talk to, and you feel like this giant gangly monster and she's this otherworldly gorgeous creature. So many of those nuances, especially in the earlier episodes, were just beautifully done and I loved them so much.

NiNi 

I feel like one of the things that helped contribute to that feel was the wardrobe. From the time I saw all the ways they were dressed, I was just like, this is what tropical girls in high school dressed like. There's a lot of t-shirts and shorts.

Ginny 

Yes!

NiNi 

It's not fancy, it's not done up. You're at home and you're chilling and you're wearing a t -shirt and some running shorts and maybe you've got socks on because your feet are cold for some reason. It made me think of growing up back in Trinidad because this is how it is. It felt really real. It felt like, okay, they understand girls.

Ginny 

Yes. There's one scene where they're running around the school at night for reasons—they shouldn't be there—but they're all in their little t-shirts. And it's like this slumber party feeling of excitement. And you're close to this person that you have a crush on. And somehow the wardrobe just made it all feel so much more like, yes, I've been there. I know what that feels like.

NiNi 

Ben, what about you? What are some of the things that you enjoyed when you started watching the show?

Ben

I was relieved that Ongsa already seemed to know that she liked girls. And so we get to enjoy Milk playing this human disaster of a lesbian in the early episodes. I often feel like there's a tension with some of the actors about their image. And some of them seem to struggle with having to be cringy or kind of gross. And Milk is not one of them. It's why I think a lot of her characters have such a believable quality to them. The way they move, they feel like they're present in the space. They don't feel necessarily like they're aware of the camera. They're just so focused on what they're trying to feel in the moment. 

I rarely have trouble accessing Milk's characters across the various performances we've been lucky enough to have from her. And I really liked her in the early stages. I liked how she played the absolute mess that was her character. The way she was struggling with same-sex attraction and the idea that reciprocity was not something that was accessible to her. That's a very common queer feeling that I think was captured really well. So I really understood Ongsa's early hesitancy when it came to clearing things up with Sun. And I thought that was really well done.

NiNi 

I feel like I always end up with the 'I as well!' But I too am here to praise Milk. I have enjoyed Milk as an actor. She hasn't had a lot to do yet, but with this role, I feel like she nailed it on from minute one, the very first frame that she's in, I a hundred percent believe her. I believe everything about her character. I believe the feelings that her character has. I believe that she believes that she is this awkward loser who's never gonna have friends or anybody. And I also believe when she stops believing that. 

There's some quality to Milk and her acting—maybe it's the ability to go for the cringy without being too worried about how she looks—she nailed on that character. A hundred percent believable from beginning to end, even through some of the wobbles that we're gonna talk about later on in terms of the story. There was never a point in time where I did not believe Milk as Ongsa and that this is how Ongsa would react to these things happening in her life.

00:14:18 23.5: Supporting Characters

NiNi

Let's talk a little bit about some of the other characters. We've got Milk playing Ongsa, and then we've got Love playing Sun. I struggled a little bit with Sun? I think that it was good casting to have Love play Sun, because this idea of this girl who is so sweet and cute and gorgeous, this girl that Ongsa would absolutely fall in love with, I totally bought that from Love. But I feel like the story didn't expect much more of her? I truly enjoyed Love's performance when she was given stuff to do.

Ginny 

Yeah, I agree. There were moments later in the series where we got to see her dig in and give us something more than this very sweet, kind, and pretty love interest character. I was like, “See, she can do it. Why didn't you give her more to do earlier?” It's hard to talk about her performance because they didn't give her very much to do and the writing was pretty shaky on her character, I think. 

View—playing Aylin the cousin—I've always been a huge fan of View's acting. She's never not nailed a role as far as I've seen and she was also a delight in this.

Ciize, I thought was great. Also sadly underused, but where she was, she really shone. Even though she's smaller than everybody else, she is the alpha. She's the class president and the older sister. Very tired and keeping everybody in shape. Enjoyed her role a lot.

I don't have a lot to say about June.

Ben

Oop! [all laugh] 

Ginny

Sorry, June!

Ben 

What do you have to say about June? Well, she was there. [laughs] Damn.

NiNi 

I find June as an actor quite accessible a lot of the time, but in this I wasn't sure what she was supposed to be? I feel like her characterization wasn't clear and because of that I didn't know where to land on her performance. I feel like I enjoyed it, but then also it felt, not wobbly exactly, but more confused.

Ginny 

I think there was a similar issue as with Love's character, Sun, where they were both there to be the love interest for the awkward, weird character, and they weren't given anything else to do except to be sweet and accepting towards the awkward, weird character. That's a shame. I haven't seen June in anything else, so that's why I don't have anything to say about her. 

Ben 

Oh, did you not watch Dangerous Romance?

Ginny 

I did not. 

NiNi 

Stop it right now. 

Ben 

Did you know?

NiNi

Stop it right [laughs] that a windmill—

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

Ginny 

Somehow, I do know that. [laughs]

NiNi 

That's never gonna get old.

Ben 

I will always make time for windmill jokes on this podcast.

[NiNi and Ginny laugh]

NiNi 

June was also in 10 Years Ticket. View and June were together in 10 Years Ticket and that's why I think they were also cast for this, because their characters in 10 Years Ticket were shipped together and I completely understand why. Even though they were not an actual couple in 10 Years Ticket, the energy was there. So I understand how they ended up paired together. So it was very strange that they went from a really solid, I thought, pairing in 10 Years Ticket to something here that felt so, to me in the end, wobbly.

Ginny 

Well, the problem is it was one-sided. Aylin was a great character and Luna, June's character, was just kind of there and they had a weird moment late in the series that kinda soured me on their whole story. But earlier they were very fun and good together. It was just that Luna was kind of just a pleasing backdrop to Aylin's whole situation.

Ben 

I don't think the casting team knows why most of the cast is even in this show. ‘Cause you have a lot of really talented people who are doing the best with the direction that they're being given on the day that they were filming. But just like every one of these episodes, as we'll get into, felt like it was internally fine, but not part of what came before or after it in a really consistent or coherent way, I think Love and June suffer the most for that. 

I think Love's actually really funny and really talented, but I don't think she knew what she was supposed to be doing for most of the show. She felt like she was lost in a lot of her scenes, it just does not feel very grounded. I don't think Love understood Sun, and I don't know that that's necessarily her fault either.

I think June is fine in terms of her ability to work with View but it was kind of a weird set of performances to watch. 

Let me talk bout the rest of these fucking side characters. This show had t4t teacher yuri.

NiNi 

The show had teachers in the school. Two of those teachers are being played by Golf and Godji. And these two teachers are supposed to be having a little side romance. I love a teacher side romance in a school show. However. Dot dot dot.

Ben

It's really frustrating because there was a real opportunity for these two women to sort of model what these younger characters could have. There's the whole hapless quality that Golf's character BamBam has that is probably meant to mirror what Ongsa has kinda going on. But I don't really know that they ever figured out something useful to do with them. It just feels like another beat happening. It doesn't feel like it's in sync with any sort of storytelling that's going on here.

Ginny 

It felt to me like it was just there to be there. There's t4t, yuri, or transbians as my friend likes to say— 

Ben 

TRANSBIANS!

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

I love that! Transbians! That is awesome.

Ginny 

[laughs] It felt like they're saying, “Oh, there's transbians, and that's enough. We don't have to actually make them have, like, a coherent story or more than a few cute moments here and there. I remember distinctly the episode where I realized what was supposed to be happening is this modeling thing. And it was in episode, like, 10 or something. It was so far into the series. But it just didn't come through early enough to have any kind of an impact.

I do like that they gave us those two teachers. I'm glad I would like us to get more transbians. [laughs] But I wish they'd done a better job.

00:21:27 23.5: Frustration with the Writing and Execution

NiNi 

I feel like we're dancing around a little bit like where we think that some of the criticisms of the story are coming from, so let's dive into that. I feel like the beginning of the story, that first arc of Ongsa basically catfishing Sun, I felt like that arc was really strong. Like, I understood what was happening there. And then it gets squishy in the middle once it's obvious to Sun that Ongsa is this person that she's been talking to the whole time that she thought was a guy. 

I feel like once that happens, the show starts getting interested in other things that had nothing to do with what had gone before. It wasn't following on from that first arc. And then somehow at the end they kinda try to dovetail back to that first arc in certain ways while also doing a third arc that doesn't really work? 

It feels disjointed and disconnected. It feels like in each episode they knew what they wanted to accomplish, but the episodes themselves don't link together into a coherent story.

Ginny 

For me, it felt like right up through the reveal that Ongsa was Earth, it felt coherent and I was with it, and at that point, I was feeling like this is a really solid show. And then it felt like they did about four or five episodes that, each one of them belonged to a different story. Each episode was a coherent story in itself, but did not feel very connected to what came before or what came afterward or much of the established characterization. And then at the end they did kind of tie some of the emotional impact of that big deception and reveal in, and Love got to actually do some good acting as Sun talked to Ongsa about her frustrations about how Ongsa kept holding back in this relationship. Which was great, but I was already so spun around like, what ride am I on anymore, because of the four or five filler feeling episodes, that it just really marred the impact.

Ben 

I agree with you there, especially when it comes to Love getting to act later on. I find myself very frustrated with this show's unwillingness to let Sun be mad for more than half an episode. I need, like, a really good boil for a character. I need somebody to be irritated as fuck. I really like when somebody's just fucking pissed about some shit that somebody did. A lot of these shows, I have found from GMMTV, really struggle with that. They're constantly worried about selling ship. So they don't want the characters to be upset with each other for very long. 

But it means that Sun doesn't really feel very human for me. She has such a super delayed reaction to Ongsa's big lie that I was just not exactly feeling her shift. I was just kinda like, okay, I guess. We shoulda done this a couple of weeks ago, but whatever, at least we're sorta getting it now.

I don't, also, understand—why is everyone here? What is the point of AJ's character, Ton? Why is Euro in this if he's not gonna score with one of the twins? Why is Ford here? What was the point of this little gay boy subplot that they put in this? I don't know what they were going for here.

NiNi 

Going back to the Sun thing, I think that the idea they were trying to get across was that Sun was burying a lot of things that then came out in this well of frustration. Part of her character is to be this nice, sweet girl. And nice, sweet girls, they let things go. I feel like that's what they wanted to do with her character, but I don't feel like they wrote her character in that way. The character doesn't feel like a character who is burying things. The character feels like a character who has let things go.

And then with all the other stuff that was happening, because there was so much coming at us. There was this whole idea of Alpha being the big sister and the pressures that that put on her. There was this idea of the teachers feeling pressured to do the best that they could by these students. There was whatever was going on with AJ's character. I have no idea what that was about. And that little runner with AJ's character and Earn's character, Charoen and Ton, I still have no idea what any of that was about.

Ginny 

No idea.

Ben 

I don't like it! That's for damn sure.

[Ginny laughs]

NiNi 

Did not like it. No clue what it was about. AJ, you need to call your agent because they're not doing well by you this year.

There's just all this churn happening in the middle of the story that has nothing to do with what happened before, nothing to do with what's happening after, all is coming out of the blue. But in another show would have really worked, like the Alpha stuff, the big sister stressed out stuff. 

There is a way in which that could have worked, but they didn't really put any emphasis on that sisterly relationship between Ongsa, Aylin, and Alpha and how that might have been altered by the fact that Ongsa and Alpha have been living apart because Ongsa has been living in Phuket with their dad and Alpha has been living in Bangkok with their mom and now the family's back together. What does that look like, now having to take care of your little sister again when you had gotten unaccustomed to doing that? The whole fact that Alyn is their cousin who's living with them. Why is she living with them? What does this mean? How is she integrating into the family? None of that stuff is really touched on. It's a little bit touched on, but not really. It feels like they wanted to tackle Alpha as a character and all these stresses that she feels, but they're not actually showing us the stresses. So it feels like it comes out of nowhere. 

And then everything that happens with Euro's character and Ford's character—just excise that from the show. Why is it even there? Why are they there? Why did they get out of bed and come to set? Somebody explain that to me.

Ben 

Every single week I was like, “Here's how Euro can still win.”

[Ben and Ginny laugh]

Ginny 

To be clear, because this confused me for a while, for Ben, Euro winning is not Euro getting a love interest. Euro winning is Euro being with AJ, specifically.

Ben 

He just needs to kiss one of the twins and I'll be satisfied.

NiNi 

We are big Euro lovers on this podcast. We think he's a great actor who has been overlooked and underutilized and we want to see him win in every way possible. Every way, including getting to kiss whoever he wants—boys, girls, whatever. Let him have it.

Ben 

It always feels like it comes back to ship when it comes to GMMTV. If we wanted to do an Alpha focus episode, we need to open with her as the viewpoint character and narrator for an episode, and focus on Alpha and how she's seeing all of this going on with everything else she's juggling. Alpha is struggling with not being able to understand how to help her sister or her cousin when she can see they're both having big trouble, even as she's trying to make sure they get fed, go to school on time. And she's also trying to get ready for college and she's just freaking the fuck out, like this has the potential to be really good. But it just ends up not feeling that way. 

It doesn't feel like they weren't planning this show it just feels maybe over planned? I'm not really certain. It's a weird experience watching the show and trying to talk about it. You feel like you're being tickled at the back of your head the whole time, trying to follow what the fuck is going on and where this shit is building to.

Ginny 

It feels like they had a really powerful brainstorming phase and then did not carry on to the pruning and organizing. They were like, yeah, and Ciize’s character is gonna have this stress arc, and the teachers are gonna have a romance, and Euro’s gonna have a romance, and AJ is gonna be there.

NiNi

I'm just so mad at you saying AJ's gonna be there. Like, there’s nothing else going on with AJ. He’s just gonna be present. 

Ginny 

You cannot deny that he was there. He was in this show.

NiNi 

He was very there. He was present.

Ben

It very much feels like there were some really powerful single statements they put on the board. Somebody wrote, like, “Big boys need love, too.” And everybody was like, “Hell yeah!” And then they didn't know what to do with it. [Ben laughs]

Ginny 

Right, exactly! It's frustrating!

Ben 

That is the adjective for this show. Frustrating.

NiNi 

I feel like this show had some really clear-eyed ideas at the start, though, and that's the thing that really stresses me out about it. At the start, I feel like they're connecting Mawin's feelings of not feeling good enough and isolation to Ongsa's feelings of not feeling good enough. I feel like that was where they wanted to go with it, but in the end they don't actually go anywhere with it. And I feel like they thought that they were making that parallel all the way to the end with that one and I just didn't see it. There's just so much that the show feels like it really thought it was nailing, like all the Aylin stuff. 

I really enjoyed that idea of Aylin feeling alienated from everybody and not because necessarily of any lack of love or anything from them, just feeling like she doesn't understand them and she needs them to work to be more understood by her rather than her necessarily having to do certain kinds of work to be more understood by them. That give and take. I feel like the show had that idea in the beginning, but then by the end, Luna is pushing Alyin to be more social. And I'm like, but I thought that we understood at the beginning when you were on the rooftop telling her you're not a human, you're a moon, that you understood what needed to happen here. But now you're pushing her to be more social? Like, why? It didn't feel like it connected.

Ginny 

That frustrated me a lot about them because I was really loving what they were doing with Aylin and that kind of acceptance between her and Luna. There's a way to do a, “Now let me help you do some of the social things that you felt unable to do. Let me work with you.” But they simply did not frame it so that it felt like something Aylin wanted. So it comes off just feeling like Luna says, “Well, now we're a couple, so I'm gonna make you be normal.” That's what that sequence felt like to me and that's the thing that soured me on their story. I really hated that.

Ben 

I think my favorite Aylin moment was her taking her own advice and then sending the little letter to Luna.

NiNi 

I liked any moment where it felt like Aylin had a revelation by watching somebody else or the way that other people were interacting doing something, whether or not she agreed with it, and then internalizing that and deciding how she would tackle something like that and then doing it. I like to watch that thought process work with Aylin. But I think at some point, Aylin went from somebody that the narrative was trying to understand to somebody that the narrative was trying to change. And I did not like that.

I love View, I think View is a phenomenal actress. Towards the end of the story, to me, it felt a little bit like she had checked out from the character.

00:33:42 23.5: Final Arc and Ratings

Ben 

I think that's the show. There were a lot of ideas that we were like, hey, this is a good idea. Ope, and it's gone.

NiNi 

We didn't even talk about the final arc with Sun going abroad. The final arc of this show did not connect to anything else, and it tried to tell me things about Sun as a character that had not been laid out in any way before. I feel like they tried to give Love something to do, but they also didn't really trust her with it. And I don't know why, because Love is a good actress. The bits that we see from her where they actually give her something to do in the show, she really nails it on. So why don't they trust her? 

The show just. it's kind of messy, that's not to say that I did not enjoy a great deal of it. The first major arc, maybe up to episode six or seven I feel like that is pretty solid.

Ben 

An evergreen comment about Thai BL.

[Ben and Ginny laugh]

NiNi

Not just Thai BL lately, boo boo. It feels like all of it. We've had some of these problems in Japan lately, too. And I think we've been talking about Korea in this way, as well. Instead of just writing the story from beginning to end, I feel like these writers are getting very excited and trying to do a lot and trying to be like, “Ooh, what can we do that's new and interesting?” How about you just write the story from beginning to the end? That would be fantastic. Thailand is, yes, guilty, but it's been a consistent critique that we've been having across shows, across countries this year. 

All of that said, let's rate this. Ginny, let's start with you. What did you rate 23.5?

Ginny 

I gave it a 7.5. There were some things that I really did like a lot, so I didn't wanna take it too low, but it just really failed to cohere into a good overall show.

NiNi 

Ben?

Ben 

Before I give my rating. Normally when I'm giving you all ratings it's on the scale of, is this worth your time to watch? I will say politically, you should stream 23.5. It is very important that the juice makers know that we want GL. You don't have to watch it. You should stream it. This is not the show that I wanted, but we do need to support this one. 

That being said, I gave the show a 6.5. I don't think this show is genuinely worth putting a shit ton of engagement into. This is not an experience I will be returning to. I don't think the show was very good. The positive things we felt on the front end about how well Milk captured young queer disaster, these are the good things to take with you. But please, please do better.

NiNi 

I slot in right between the two of you. I gave the show a 7. I do think the front end of this was really good. I liked all of the performances, even the ones that I felt that weren't entirely up there, that was more a function of the writing not being there to support what the actor or actress could do. I enjoyed Milk as Ongsa so much, all the way from beginning to end. All that together for me adds up to a 7. It's good enough, but I have some serious reservations about some of the writing.

So, I think that makes me as the person in the middle the actual score for 23.5. So it gets a 7 from The Conversation by the law of averages. It is worth your time from the standpoint of being the first GMMTV GL. It's worth your time from the standpoint of just watching Milk kill this character. Just be aware that the writing falls apart right after the midpoint.

Ben 

It may be GMMTV's first GL, but let's be clear, it's not GMMTV's first lesbians.

GMMTV has had lesbians since they started fucking around with gay people. There were lesbians in SOTUS. There were lesbians in Friendzone and Friendzone: Dangerous Area.

NiNi 

There were lesbians in Dangerous Romance, technically.

Ben 

Wait, what? Were there?

NiNI

We just talked about this!

Ben

Oh man, I blocked that out. [Ginny laughs] I forgot about the teacher plot! Because I was distracted about the knowledge that a windmill—

[all laugh]

NiNi 

And, moving on.

00:38:42 Only Boo

NiNi 

Alright, let's move on to the next show that we're gonna talk about, which is Only Boo. 

Ben, what is Only Boo about?

Ben 

How a gay boy inside of the bubble must remain trapped there, else he'd be forced to face the realities of the cruel homophobic world we live in.

Only Boo is a high school BL from GMMTV about a plucky kid whose mom is a member of the entertainment industry, who has huge aspirations of becoming an idol. He wants to become an idol so bad that he's bailing on classes and exams so he can go to auditions and his mom has had enough of that little kid's shit. So she sends his ass to the countryside to the school she went to so he can get his shit together and graduate from high school. Once he gets there, the very first thing this boy does is spend 500 goddamn dollars on a bike and has no fucking money and gets a—

[Ginny laughs]

NiNi 

I just knew that you were going up—that you were gonna go there in the very beginning. [all laugh] It is actually an important plot point, people, but it is still ridiculous.

Ben 

He has no money and basically gets adopted by the son of the restaurant near his hotel, who also serves food at their school. He's having a little bit of difficulty adjusting but ends up being very fond of the son of the restaurant owner and eventually befriends two other boys who also want to become idols. He is an incredibly fun character to watch, his name is Moo. He's clearly never once thought that people might not like him for being queer and is just so unabashedly joyous about what he loves in his life. He spends the bulk of the first two thirds of the show pursuing Kang, the boy who is helping him, before transitioning to Bangkok to become an idol. 

Complications ensue! Book is there. 

[all laugh]

NiNi 

All right, Ben let me come to you first with this one. What were some of your initial thoughts coming into this show?

Ben 

I gotta be honest, I had, like, my similar reaction to My School President on the front end. [laughs] I was like, I don't know who these boys are and I don't care. No new friends. [Ginny and NiNi laugh] It took me a while to warm up to Keen and Sea and that's not their fault. I'm just older and struggle with new actors. 

But I actually ended up really liking Moo a lot really early. It was interesting watching, like, a modern queer kid. Modern queer youth is really fascinating to me. I've talked about this before, like nobody teaches queer people their history. They have to go find other queer people who teach them their history. And so you end up with this thing a lot where a lot of the baby gays, they know fucking nothing. And Moo is a good example of that in a lot of ways. And it feels like his family has sheltered him because they probably clocked who he was really early and they don't want to talk about that sort of stuff with him. So he feels no shame about being queer. He feels no, like, maybe I should dial it back because people don't like or understand that shit. He's like, nah, I like that boy. And I know he liked me, too! 

I really enjoyed that. I enjoyed the performances with the sides ‘cause they got—what's his name—they paired him with Aun. 

NiNi 

Ashi?

Ben

Yeah. He's pretty solid. I actually like him. And I really thought he did a good job with gay yearning in the early parts of this show. I had a good time. I really also like the teachers in this. I was a teacher for about four years. And I thought that the way they presented the educators in the show was really well done. They were not cool at all, but they were really committed to their jobs. And they treated these kids with stern respect. They weren't like up these kids' asses all the time about unnecessary shit. But Moo was a half step away from being a delinquent for most of the show. And they were very big on applying foot to ass for that boy to make sure he got his shit together. 

I really enjoyed a lot of the early parts of the show. I thought the baseline cast chemistry across the board was really solid. I thought the actors worked really well together in almost every scene—whether I thought those scenes were the right call from a writing standpoint is another thing, but everybody seemed to understand why they were there

NiNi 

Ginny, how about you?

Ginny 

I don't like fluff in general, I won't seek it out. So I went into this one like, well, we'll see how I feel. Because it was clearly a very cute, fluffy kind of premise and cutesy high energy vibe. And I ended up so charmed by especially Keen's performance as Moo, but really both of them together, Sea and Keen, worked really well together and were written really nicely. 

We noted that it's the same writing team as Cooking Crush had. It did feel similar to Cooking Crush that we've started getting a little bit more sincerity and kindness from characters in how they have their kind of awkward first encounters and back and forth where they're trying to figure out, “Do I like you, do you like me, how do we navigate that?” There was so much sweetness and honesty in how they each approached each other and, like, genuine decency that I found really refreshing. So I was so charmed by this show, beyond my expectations, and really very into it for two thirds of its run.

NiNi 

I love Moo so much as a character. I was not planning on watching this show. As with a lot of the shows that I've ended up watching lately, I have had to eat my words. I started watching it sort of on a whim. I didn't have anything else to do, and by the end of the first episode I was entirely charmed by Moo.

He's just so alive as a character. Keen plays him really, really well. That sense of, not Devil May Care exactly, but boundless optimism. There is no indication anywhere in his affect that he has ever heard the word no despite the fact that he hears it all the time. [laughs] And I find that truly delightful. I find characters who are able to get a no, keep it moving and be like, “I am going to turn this no into a yes, but you don't know that yet.” I like that kind of energy and optimism, particularly in a character who is so young, because that's the kind of character who should have that energy and optimism. The kind of character who hasn't had their heart broken before.

I enjoyed Moo and Kang and how the attraction, the interest was instantaneous and mutual. Because one of the things that I was scared of going into this show was that it would be all about Moo being pushy and harassing Kang, but it was clear from the very beginning that whatever was going on here was entirely a hundred percent mutual and they were both very into what was happening.

I enjoyed Aun and Ashi as Payos and Potae despite me having major reservations about their storyline, but we'll get into that. I enjoyed the first, two thirds of this show immensely. Everything that happened with the high school story. And when I say enjoyed, not just from a standpoint of delight, but enjoyed from the standpoint of this writing makes sense. And these characters make sense and everything that is happening here makes sense. And then, it stopped making sense but before we get there…

Is there a before we get there? What else are we talking about before we get to the turn?

Ginny 

We've given Milk a lot of love and I do want to give her a bit more because she was also in this as a side character playing a completely different person from Ongsa, and also was just so fun to watch in every scene. Give Milk more work. I wanna see her in everything.

Ben 

I will give Milk a compliment as a backhand to the other people. [Ginny laughs] I understand why Milk was here. Why was everyone else?

NiNi (50:46)

Oh my god. [laughs] I also liked Milk as Neth. I enjoyed her characterization. I liked the kind of friend that Neth was to Kang. I enjoyed everything about her right up until a weird thing that happened in the last episode. I think she was delightful. 

Ben 

I'll say this about the Neth character. Neth is always timed well for whenever Kang's caution makes him back off of Moo, and she's very good about making him confront his own feelings so that he can take a step forward. She's used extremely well for that so that the development of the boys’ romance never feels stilted

00:48:06 Only Boo: Popping the Bubble

NiNi 

I guess now it's time to flip the script. Ginny, what did you not like here? How did the trajectory of the show go for you?

Ginny 

So around episode 9, we switch from high school to where Moo is starting to get to live his idol dreams. And Kang has overcome some of his own stuckness that he was in before Moo showed up to go to art school in Bangkok. Very exciting.

Then… they made so many choices around the idol storyline. You know that there's gonna be an issue of him being an idol and dating. That's gotta be part of it with a show like this and with the story set up like this. And I was excited to see that. And every choice they made made me less and less excited. I was feeling real shaky by the end of episode 10. Episode 11, I thought was abysmal, I hated everything they did. And episode 12 was like, now I understand what you were trying to do, but you did it so badly. The final arc simply collapsed on itself.

NiNi 

Some of the seeds of the final arc were sown early on, particularly the Shone character. That character from the very beginning just did not sit right, but the final arc actively offended me. The whole idol arc for me, it was not the wave. They should not have done it. And the reason that they should not have done it is that they weren't intending to do anything meaningful with it. 

There are so many ways that you can do an idol story. It's not even that there had to be any one way that the story went. Idols and relationships, there are so many ways to do that story. The way that they chose was quite possibly the most offensive to me, first of all because it didn't make any sense, and then secondly in the end because it didn't matter and it didn't have anything to say about the idol system at all.

It happened. Moo was sad for a year. And then he got back together with Kang and he went and he said, “I don't wanna sign this stupid no dating anybody contract anymore.” And they just went, “Okay.” What was the point of the last four episodes if it was gonna be this easy? One thing I don't like is you spend a lot of narrative and thematic time on something that in the end is solved easily.

Ben, I know you've been holding back.

Ben 

This show is the end of my ability to tolerate bubble shows from GMMTV. I have an appreciation for the bubble, because I grew up in queer cinema. A lot of queer creators are dealing with a lot of grief and a lot of pain, and this comes through in a lot of the art. And so, this fictional space where homophobia is not an issue and boys can just moon after each other and everyone giggles and tee-hees until they get together can be a nice emotional break from that reality. But the problem I'm having with the GMMTV shows at this point is they are not just staying in the bubble. They keep alluding to the real world where homophobia is a real problem and then intentionally not dealing with that.

This thing they did in the show where Moo doesn't even know, like, the word gay exists or whatever, but Kang feels like he's had to deal with some internalized homophobia. But no he hasn't, his mom's totally cool. But then why is he like this? There was this interesting bit with Kang when they moved to Bangkok, where they're gonna be sharing an apartment together and Moo wanted to be intimate with him, and you could feel like Kang wanted to be intimate with him too, but was shy or nervous about it and didn't want to proceed with it. When you've been in the closet for a long time, actually doing something with someone is awkward and kind of nerve wracking, particularly when they're so confident the way Moo is. And I don't feel like we ever really got any resolution on that. And it feels like the show was only having him be shy because they wanted to time certain things out. 

That's one of the many gay frustrations I have with this show, where there's this interesting thing that feels very gay that the show then does absolutely nothing with, or tells us we were wrong about. Like, I sensed early on that some of Kang's reticence about being queer may have come from his mom. Apparently I misread that, whatever. It also bugs me that they won't tell Moo, like, you can't be an out idol, bro. But then fangirls are shipping Louis's character, Jang, with Pyos later on. Like, you can't have shipping culture and then not address where queer people slot into that. 

The very worst gay offense that this show created was having Moo bond with Payos, particularly over clocking Payos's crush on Potae, and then later on, for whatever reason, Moo decides to make Potae his confidant when he has to go into the closet, and not Payos. I don't understand how Payos, being the first other queer he bonded with that he wasn't trying to fuck, is not the person that he trusts with something important. And this was particularly hurtful for me, because Moo lets Payos think that he's gotten over Kang and has broken up with him after this huge “I'm gonna be with this man” arc. Like how lonely must have Payos felt at that moment? He was already struggling with his feelings that he might never get to be with Potae and then Moo, the strongest gay he knows, is like, I guess I gotta get over Kang, ‘cause you know, we gotta make that paper, bro. It is what it is.

I'm just so disappointed in that. And then there's the whole shit with Shone. Why make your cousin's boyfriend break up with him and then hit on your cousin's boyfriend that you made break up with him that you know he still loves? I was so disgusted with those last two things that it has forever soured the show for me.

NiNi 

The Shone stuff for me was particularly heinous. I am an elder sibling and I'm also a big cousin. To betray that big cousin trust, I couldn't fathom doing that to any of my little cousins.

I felt like Shone had no rights at that point. It's one thing when he initially develops this crush on Kang. He didn't know. Fine. Once you know, how do you do that? To me that breaks all the codes, you just don't do that, that's not a thing that you do. It's wicked, it's cruel, it's mean, absolutely unacceptable. And that was where the show really truly offended me.

The Potae and Payos stuff, Payos somehow going from being Moo's confidant to being on the outside while Potae gets to be on the inside, that didn't sit right with me, but the Shone stuff was really just egregious. I could not stomach it.

Ben 

And they made Moo apologize to him. I will never forgive them for that. I will never forgive them for making Moo apologize.

Ginny 

What the fuck was that with Shone? They had this moment earlier where I thought, okay, this is how we're resolving this. We're leading up to a big issue, but then we're gonna have them settle it by being kind and decent to each other and this cousin loyalty thing. Well, it's a little weird that you felt the need to do that at all, but okay, I like where we landed on this. And then they just have him so fully backstab. 

Purely from a narrative construction perspective, what we said we all love about Moo is he's so confident and so sure that, kind of, the world can't touch him. He's gonna get what he wants, and he makes it work and he makes it charming. He's very lovable in this kind of bullheaded determination mixed with sunny optimism. There were ways to then have him have a rude awakening that would have made sense in the story. Instead, what they did was they have, like, three people talk to Kang behind his back, and guilt trip the kid into breaking up with his boyfriend, And then do the no contact one year time skip, because God forbid we ever do anything different. 

If you want to give me an idol story and talk to me about the problems of idols dating, what if you have them actually deal with any of those challenges? I would not have minded if the story was leading to the company saying, “You know what, this is a bad outdated rule for XYZ reasons. We've seen this”. I wouldn't have even minded if it took them a year to get there. That's fine. But the way they did it was just much too easy, no conflict. Moo was just like, “I'm gonna talk to them.” And then he talked to them and it turned out they were already going to do the right thing. And I'm like, why? Make it interesting. Give me a story about that. Don't just do weird convoluted chasing and pining and this cousin backstabbing situation for an episode and a half. It didn't work on any level.

00:58:42 Only Boo: If You're Gonna Do An Idol Story, Commit

Ben 

This is the umpteenth GMMTV show where the poor kid has to upend their whole life for the benefit of the rich kid. And I'm over it. Kang must suffer so that Moo can succeed at being an idol. This is a very weird, specific thematic beat that this company's shows always go to. And I really, truly do not like it.

NiNi 

That was part of the issue, but the thing that really stuck out for me is that this is GMMTV that did this show. GMMTV is an idol house. That's what they are. Let's just be real. They create idols, they teach them to act and sing and dance and they put them out there in concerts and they sell fan meetings and they sell merch. They are an idol house. And what this show feels like, is that they did not want to catch any blowback from being an idol house. They were in a unique position as an idol house to have something, anything to say about this system. Whether they were trying to defend the system, whether they wanted to upend the system, whether they wanted to make a statement of any kind about the system that they participate in.

And they did none of those things. They gave some wishy-washy idea of, yes, we know that this is maybe probably bad, but we don't do this. It feels so disingenuous. It feels like they are trying to be like, oh, don't look over here. I'm not saying that they needed to take a moralistic position on this. I'm just saying that they needed to take a position, period. They could have taken a cynical position on this. They could have been like, this is where the money is. They could have taken an apologetic position on this, they could have taken so many different directions on a story like this depending on what it is that they wanted to say. And I might have been pissed with some of those directions but I, in the end would have been like, okay that's their position.

Ginny 

I will give, like, half a thimble full of credit for the end line being, “Oh yeah, this idols can't date rule is bullshit and we should get rid of it.” I was gonna feel even madder if it ended with Moo ending his contract because you can't be an idol and be in love and the story being fine with that.

At least they gave a momentary lip service to the, yeah, we don't do that. The other half of my half a thimble full of credit is that we have seen one of their BL actors go very public with a girlfriend and it seems like he was supported by the company in that. So, okay, presumably a little bit of their money is where the tiniest whisper of their mouth is, I guess. But yes, they should have said something. They're in the position to really tell a story about this. They should have said something. If they're gonna do this. they should have done it.

Ben 

Bestie, I respect your ability to give them half of a thimble of credit, I will be giving them nothing because they made the show. They put this in front of us. They're the ones who spent the whole fuckin’ show making us question whether or not Moo as he is could be an idol. I'm not giving them credit.

NiNi 

I feel like I slot in somewhere in the middle. More maybe towards the side of being pissed and it really comes down to the whole Payos story. After the one year time skip he's being shipped with Jang. At the end of the story there's a Potae/Payos ship that they're talking about. And at no point is there any indication that Moo is suffering because this is not quote unquote allowed but somehow whatever is going on with the Payos stuff, we're gonna lean into that. For me, if you make a statement on that, then yes, I give you the credit, but you just put it there and you don't say anything about it. 

Television as a medium exists at the nexus of art and commerce. Television doesn't exist without commerce. It's not like film, where people do it for the love. Television doesn't get put out if there's no money in it. Let's just be real about what TV is. The fact that this show is so mealy-mouthed about saying that, about accepting that that is where it sits. I just don't like it. The art commerce thing for me, I sit with it, I'm usually fine. I can usually look at a show and be like, okay, I can see where they did this for the love and where they did this for the money.

It's why I don't have a whole bunch of trouble with the branded pairing thing. My trouble with the branded pairing thing is always when it doesn't align with what the show is trying to do. But the whole act of casting branded pairs in things, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And I prefer to look at the branded pair thing, as, okay, well, in which way did this pair work for this set of rules and in which way did it not? As opposed to being pissed at the branded pair thing, because that's just, the price of the ride. 

But this one, it just bugged me, man. I felt like if you're gonna be so self-referential about the industry that you are in, that you have to make some kind of statement on it [laughs] one way or another. This show just didn't, and I didn't like that.

01:05:06 Only Boo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben 

As I said in the Japan episode, telling stories about queer experiences in a respectful way is non-negotiable for me in a genre profiting off of people's titillation about seeing boys kiss each other. I don't think that's an unreasonable position to hold. So, as much as I love Moo as a character, and as much as I liked all of the bits we got to talk about early on in this show, this show fails as a queer narrative in a way that is unsettling, often annoying, and in some ways kinda harmful. And I can't pretend like that's okay.

NiNi

Let's rate. Ginny, what are we rating Only Boo?

Ginny 

Oh, I think I'm coming in a lot higher than you two, probably. I did really like the first two thirds and I think I was not as offended by the end. So I gave it a 7.

NiNi 

Ben, how about you?

Ben 

One of the downsides of me having basically a bad time with global BL since Cooking Crush and Cherry Magic Thailand ended, is I'm now starting to weight endings higher. This is not fun. It is making the ability to watch these shows week to week with other people unfun. The shows start fun and we're like, hell yeah, this is a fun show. And then by around episode eight or nine, we're in various stages of grief [NiNi laughs] and they don't finish strong. We don't get to feel triumphant at the end. We don't get to lift that fish out of the stream and be like, we got dinner tonight, boys! And I'm over pretending that the idea of the show is better than the reality of the show. 

As a result, Only Boo gets a 5.

NiNi 

I am, I think once again, splitting the difference. Because I did have a good time for the first eight episodes of this show. I was offended by the last two. A bad ending can ruin a show for me. It does not always, but it can ruin a show for me.

But throughout the entire show from end to end, I have to say, that throughline of Moo and Kang and their relationship. I just believed them so much. Even when the show is crashing down around them, they are somehow holding together that love story, and making me believe in it.

I want to give it a 6 but I think I'm going to end up at a 6.5 just for that. Moo and Kang and the Moo and Kang love story and Sea and Keen as Moo and Kang are so good.

So what does that leave us? 5, 6.5, 7, what does that one go to? Like a 6.25. I don't know. What is maths? 

Ginny 

We can call it a 6.

NiNi

I'm a whole engineer and I can't do maths.

Ben 

We can call it a 6. I'm calling producer privilege. This show pissed me off for gay reasons and I'm not gonna pretend that the romance makes up for pissing me off for gay reasons.

NiNi

Okay, it's a 6 from The Conversation.

01:08:45 Outro: High School Blues

NiNi 

I wanna talk a little bit about these two shows just from the sense of both of them as high school shows, but also in the sense of them being shows that started out well and did pretty well through maybe half to two thirds of their run and then faltered at the end. When it comes to high school shows, as we have indicated before, we don't actually get as many of them as we think from Thailand.

Ginny

For me, the high school of it all is not the core of either show's problem. That's sort of incidental to just not having a clear understanding of the story it was telling. Did some very charming work with some very charming actors and scenes, but simply got lost at some point along the way.

NiNi 

My overall thinking about these two shows and where they landed for me is I don't know what Thailand wanted to say about high school in these shows or if they wanted to say anything about high school or if high school is just an incidental setting for these shows. What do they want to say about people on the cusp of growing up? What is it they want to say about the high school experience? I feel like that's not something that either of these shows was particularly interested in. Maybe to some extent more 23.5 was interested in it than Only Boo.

Ginny 

23.5 was a high school show and I think one of the big ideas that they wrote on the board was some stuff about high school social dynamics that they occasionally highlighted and then completely forgot about for episodes at a time.

Ben 

The big problem both of these shows have is they don't understand that the crux of a high school show is about growing up, and about how you can't go backwards anymore. The kids have to recognize that properly for the first time. I think both shows are trying to get there, but I think in almost every case, they get lost in the shipping of it all and not in the story that they need to tell. 

Almost all of these characters have broken arcs about growing up. Their energy is not focused on the proper culmination of the individual character arcs. They're focused exclusively on the romance arcs, and they believe that the resolution of these romance arcs is a good substitute for the resolution of their individual arcs. And it really frustrates me watching both of these shows not really landing on a good place about what it means to grow up. Which is for me, what is at the core of high school stories. Let's go back to The Breakfast Club and start over.

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

Not The Breakfast Club!

Ben 

I do not feel positively about either of these shows and I'm not righteous about it. I am disappointed and really frustrated. This is not a great place to be with the genre.

I don't know what's going on, everybody. I think we all need to take a good six month sabbatical. Let's have a beach episode as a whole genre, go plant some trees [NiNi laughs] and go to the beach and hang out for a bit and then come back and work on some stuff. We all need a break. It feels like people are stretched really thin. I don't know what's going on, but this is feeling like a global issue at this point. The initial ideas are good, but the execution is not. And then it ends on a flat note or an unsatisfying note.

I am a critic. Talking about stuff with people is more than half of the fun. Watching the show alone by myself is not the bulk of my enjoyment with a piece of media. My real fun with a piece of media is when I finish something and I'm gonna go annoy the nearest person to me. It's like, “Hey, it's time for you to watch something.” [NiNi laughs] That's what's fun for me.

These shows are not giving me that outlet. I don't get to share that with people who aren't BL fanatics like us. Sharing art with people is how I connect to people. And I can't share most of our shows [laughs] with normies because they're like, “This is bad. Why did you show this to me?”

NiNi 

See, that's the difference between you and me. I gave up on the normies a long time ago.

Ben 

I really want the people who watch Young Royals and Heartstopper to connect with BL. So when they finish those shows, be like, what else is there? I'm like, we got the list, girl. It's right here! But like, that list is not growing this year! We need fresh content for the list!

NiNi 

I mean, there is quite a backlog, so I feel like, if they need to take a break, I will understand. 

Ben 

They should take a break. It is summer. Everybody go to a beach. Get some sun.Go have an encounter with a hot stranger. Get your mind right, and then come back. 

We gotta take a break ‘cause this is not working. I haven't been this grumpy since 2018.

NiNi

You are grumpy right now, bestie. 

Ben 

It's not good! We can split hairs and talk about what these shows did good or bad, but in the end, are we saying people should go out and watch these shows earnestly? No. Okay.

NiNi 

We gotta wrap this up. So, that is going to do it for us on the GMMTV School Days episode. We out. Say bye to the people, Ginny.

Ginny

Bye!

NiNi

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben 

Peace!

[waitmyturtles]

GMMTV 2024 Part 2, let's go

I've had my MULTIPLE cawfees and I'm watching the GMMTV Part 2 trailers. @my-rose-tinted-glasses, this one's for you!

TL;DR what I'm excited for: Ossan's Love with trepidation; Revamp: The Undead, I'm first in line; The Ex-Morning with open arms; Us, once we have a better sense of the screenplay; Sweet Tooth, Good Dentist, drop it like it's hot, Mark; Thame-Po, boys look gewd

****

1) Ossan's Love: THE KEY WORDS BEING "INSPIRED BY"

If I take away the inclination to do any sort of comparisons to the Japanese version whatsoever ("INSPIRED BY"), I'm thrilled that EarthMix get to do romcom. Earth at this level of baka is utterly unbelievable to me, you are too smokin' hot, boy, but try to bring it, because if you do, and it's a success, then I'll be fucking really impressed.

2) Leap Day: Looks scary. Gun!

3) The Heart Killers: ...

Man. Man! First in muscle shirts and an earring, kisses pushed up against walls, etc. Where have we seen this before. Lemme guess, they all get together in the end. I would like to force myself to be excited about this somehow, Jojo on 10 Things, but. I haven't been there with JoongDunk yet, either, so actually, they seemed kinda refreshing against the FK vibes, ha. Anyway, this reignited my OF burnout, which I'm honestly trying to ignore as I get close to re-watching The Eclipse for my Old GMMTV Challenge project. @my-rose-tinted-glasses, my trust issues switch is flipped to "on."

(Get Jojo away from ships, please. He had Tay kissing Joss and Mild in the same year AFTER Dark Blue Kiss. He fucking doesn't need to use ships.)

4) Friendshit Forever: no subs, seems intense, the gals are smokin', NEW AND BOUN?! Hate to say it, but even without knowing what this is exactly about, I'm intrigued? My Boun! New and Boun!

5) Perfect 10 Liners: They're letting New Siwaj do 30 episodes, folks. I have no predictions on this one, y'all will have to tell me if it's good. Perth is back with New Siwaj directing after 2018's Love By Chance. If they give Chimon a little comedy, I'll be happy. I asked for Junior again, but maybe I wasn't expecting him to go to school, but I will admit I like JuniorMark together, and if they get to helm 10 episodes as the center stars, then good for them! Maybe that'll be the bit of this series that I watch.

6) Us: I believe in this screenplay more than how 23.5 is working out. I think Fon Kanittha needs more stuff on her plate to play around with to make a great show. This trailer was great. I'm watching My Precious the Series now (after having watched the movie this past weekend, which I was disappointed by -- the series is MUCH better, and going better than 23.5), and I'm seeing that Fon does stuff very well, background community building that gives us macro- and micro-level understandings of her characters. If those levels are Sing Harit, I'm here for it, that was an unexpected appearance, but if he's recalling the strength he brought to Todd in Not Me, then I'm a happy camper.

7) Hide and Sis: I love Piploy. Wednesday Club was a total holiday trash watch for me last year, but I loved her a lot. Looks like they're promoting this as a multi-generational show with known older actors, the approach of which I like. Everyone hates each other and maybe tries to kill each other; Keeping Up With the Thai Kardashians, maybe? Surprise, Gawin's a cop. Chimon as murderer, I'll support that.

8) Thame-Po: This looks cute. I'll consider a pre-order! Separately, I happen to adore cute Lego from LYKN, so good on those dudes for getting a show, and I like that William is pushing his boundaries outside of music.

9) Break-Up Service: I am happy that Off has gotten this kind of sneaky love romcom (?) role.

10) Revamp: The Undead: I'm here for it. I'm so happy for BounPrem. I'm happy to see some strong support dudes in Kay and Mark in this project. I haven't watched My Only 12%, so I don't know from Santa, but I know a lot of friends love him. I am totally seated. GMMTV is really the BL Machine, huh, absorbing this project.

11) Sweet Tooth, Good Dentist: Do not get me wrong, I am very excited about this; I am just wondering if Baby Ohm needs a little workshopping to get more diversity in his expressions. But I am very excited, Mark looks SO DOWN and ready to lead. View! Jimmy! I'm good with this.

12) The Dark Dice: High School Squid Game, I can't

13) The Ex-Morning: I gotta admit. This kind of moment is one of the reasons why I'm so happy doing the OGMMTVC. The big-ass smile I had on my face seeing KristSingto again, even though I really wasn't the biggest fan of SOTUS -- I've done a whole accountability turn on Krist after seeing him in Be My Favorite, and I appreciate that this show will go meta on the KristSingto background. It fucking sucks that Shadow sucked, because Singto is such a good actor, just seems like his scripts are here and there lately, but anyway. Aof Noppharnach writing this? Last Twilight ended cringe, but I'm still an Aof girlie, so I am 100% excited for this.

14) Scarlet Heart Thailand: That wasn't really a trailer, but considering the reputation the base story has in Asia and globally, I like, business-wise, what this means for GMMTV, a historical that will have appeal to multiple generations. I understand the original novel for this, Bu Bu Jing Xin, isn't translated into English, and that's a bummer, because it seems like this Thai version, which has already been dramatized in China and Korea, is based squarely on the novel. Fuck Win. These were the kinds of shows I loved as a kid when I watched Asian shows with my folks, so I have to admit that I'm intrigued, but I would have liked to see a meatier trailer.

That's it!

[winxanity-ii]

⌜Know No Evil | Chapter 23.5 Chapter 23.5 | squashing current issues⌟

╰ ⌞🇨‌🇭‌🇦‌🇵‌🇹‌🇪‌🇷‌ 🇮‌🇳‌🇩‌🇪‌🇽

❘ prev. chapter ❘༻✦༺❘ next chapter ❘

The sterile white walls of the waiting room did little to soothe your growing impatience. You tapped your foot rhythmically against the floor, scowling at the clock on the wall. Three hours. Three agonizing hours you'd been waiting.

A second later, the door creaked open, , and you whipped your head around, eyes landing on the familiar silhouette. "Oh, Xani," you muttered, rolling your eyes, "it's you."

A black girl slowly slinked into the room, her presence marked by the bright red oversized hoodie she wore, almost swallowing her small frame. Her matching silk bonnet was snugly fit on her head, protecting her curls. She carried a large tumbler in one hand and a laptop in the other. "Please... Y/N, not now," she sighed, walking over to sit at the same table.

You scowled, arms crossed tightly over your chest. "Forgive me for being a little upset that you're three hours late."

Xani waved you off dismissively as she flipped open her laptop. "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Traffic, road construction, etc."

You scoffed at her. "And the audacity to not even create a plausible excuse is even worse."

Letting out a huge sigh, Xani threw her head back, letting out an annoyed groan. "Well, sorry, Y/N, not everyone is perfect and has everything figured out. Some of us are currently fighting demons."

You snorted, amusement battling with annoyance. "Demon? Do tell."

Xani pouted at your teasing tone before giving in, clearly wanting to rant. "Well, since you asked..." she mumbled, trailing off.

Taking a deep breath, the girl then stood up before slamming both hands on the table with a surprising amount of force. The sudden movement startled you, and you couldn't help but raise an eyebrow in surprise. "I fucking HATE people!"

"Don't we all?"

Xani rolled her eyes at you. "Not in your 'people are less than bugs' mentality," she countered. "I mean, they're just... really fucking exhausting."

You leaned back in your chair. "Well," you drawled, resting your chin on your hands, "since I know you're about to tell me anyways, go ahead."

Xani's lips twitched into a reluctant grin. With a resigned sigh, she launched into a detailed explanation of her current social struggles. "To start!" she exclaimed, slamming her laptop shut with a dramatic flourish. "Bitches have been on my ass about this ugly-ass Makima!Reader book!"

"Careful with your words, I am here—"

"Like my ass can't even build off the character!" she cut you off, voice laced with frustration. "I remember in the beginning of the book, literally the blurb," she continued, her voice rising in pitch, "people were spamming me with the 'Makima isn't like that' comments! Like, helllooo? It's a reader? And said reader is currently in a body not her own OR is going through puberty—a very hormonal and unexpected phase in life!"

"I suppose they may just—"

"And DON'T get me started on the fucking 'oh, does Y/N have brown skin? Was this in the diclaimer?'  and 'I'll imagine her as having Makima from CSM skin tone, tee-hee' ass comments," Xani ranted, her voice rising in pitch. "Like, bro, I don't describe the skin tone/nor features outside of a few instances, literally once every four to five chapters! And the only reason I do this is to make it more immersive/relatable for POC individuals who may read this; the only things noted (eye color, hair color) is due to this being Makima!Reader, so you'd have notable features Makima had from 'Chainsaw Man.'" She slumped back into her chair, frustration etched on her face.

You let out a sympathetic hum, unsure of how to best respond. "Isn't that tough..." you offered tentatively.

Xani whipped her head around, her eyes narrowed. "You aren't being supportive!" she declared.

You raised an eyebrow, a playful smirk tugging at the corner of your lips. "Why must I be?" you countered. "You're the adult in this situation, not me."

Xani's jaw dropped, and her eyes widened in disbelief. "Adu—ADULT!?!" she screeched, her voice tinged with mock indignation. "I'm literally just nineteen! If anything, I'm just legal!"

"Almost twenty," you couldn't resist adding with a feigned cough.

Xani threw her hands up in the air, her expression a mixture of frustration and amusement. "You know what?" she huffed. "I didn't come here to get bashed by my own book character!"

"Bashing?" you countered, feigning innocence. "I'm merely stating observations..."

Xani wasn't buying it, scoffing. "Well, 'observe' your ass into fixing this shit! 'Cause if this shit keeps going, imma start tweaking for real."

"And tell me, why do you think I can fix this?" you asked, tilting your head in curiosity.

Xani's fiery rant dwindled into a sheepish mumble as she looked away from you. A beat of silence hung in the air before she mumbled, barely audible, "Cuz you're scary as hell..."

You sat there, processing her words for a moment. A slow smile spread across your face, amusement dancing in your eyes. "...Fair enough," you conceded, a hint of a chuckle escaping your lips.

Standing up, you stretched, your movements deliberate and graceful, before sauntering towards the imaginary fourth wall, turning your back on Xani and facing the readers directly. A playful smile appeared on your face, but it didn't quite reach your eyes. "Good afternoon, you all," you greeted them, your voice pleasant but laced with a subtle edge.

The smile vanished as quickly as it appeared, melting into a stern expression. "Unfortunately, I'm not here to give you all more insight into my devious kind, but to relay a message from Xani, the author of this account and book." You paused for dramatic effect, raising an eyebrow. "It's a very long winded complaint, but I'll give you the abridged version: Stop complaining or you will get blocked."

A strangled yell erupted from behind you. "That is not what I said—"

Ignoring Xani's protest, you continued, your voice dripping with sarcasm. "Honestly, I don't know how she puts up with all of your negativity. I, personally, would never..."

Xani scoffed, interjecting again, "You literally got talked into wearing a hoe-ish cheerleading outfit, but go off."

Waving away her words with a dismissive hand, you addressed the readers once more. "She spends hours perfecting one chapter, yet the majority of the comments focus on what they don't like instead of what they do."

A pointed cough interrupted you, followed by a muffled, "cough, Skin tone, cough."

You shot Xani a withering look before turning back to the readers. "Ignoring the unneeded adlibs for a moment," you said, your voice dripping with sarcasm. "I'm not sure why this is causing such a commotion. I'm not anything different than all the other Y/N books with 'pale skin' and 'pink blushing cheeks' descriptions. Honestly, it's giving me that those who are complaining are the individuals those fics cater to."

Your face dropped into a grimace at the audacity of many of the readers. "She’s trying to create something that includes everyone, especially those who often feel left out. If you can’t appreciate that, then maybe this story isn’t for you."

"Exactly!" Xani burst into the conversation, her voice brimming with a mixture of relief and frustration. "My entire twelve years of reading, I've never had an issue or complained about that stuff! And you wanna know why? Because it's been the norm forever! Hardly are there even POC-focused romance books and stories without it having to be 'urban,' and I've been fine with that. Yet the moment I add a few signifiers, THAT AREN'T EVEN BAD BECAUSE BASED ON MY STATISTICS THE MAJORITY OF MY READERS COME FROM POC COUNTRIES, all hell lets loose."

You smirked, clearly enjoying the frustration overcoming the author's face. "Hmm, looks like you're in a predicament," you drawled, your voice laced with amusement. "Whatever will you do?"

Xani sighed, her shoulders slumping in defeat. "It seems... Imma have to let my sister to handle it..."

You blinked in surprise. "Sister?"

"Yeah, sister," Xani confirmed. "I have a whole twin named @k-nayee, and honestly, she's been in my ear for the longest about cussing the complainers out because, in her words, 'They shouldn't complain about shit! We been reading pale-ass Y/N's for years, they'll be aight with a lil color, if not they can go to hell.'" Xani sighed again, a hint of defiance creeping into her voice. "And honestly, she's right. I've been holding my tongue back, but I'm done, over it. If they wanna be obtuse and ignore the fact that my profile states that this is a POC-focused book, then oh well."

"Hmm, seems your sister is a wise woman," you mused, a hint of respect in your voice.

"She's alright, or whatever," Xani conceded with a shrug. "But yeah. And if we can be real, she might be in my comments as we speak. She's been my moderator, replying to people and stuff, because I feel that if I come across too much negativity, Imma just scrap the entire thing. But I enjoy it too much to do it, so the task is on her."

"Well, looks like you've got everything figured out," you observed. "Anything to tell the readers before you go?" you asked, gesturing towards the fourth wall.

Xani nodded eagerly. "Yeah," she said, moving to stand beside you and facing the readers directly. A genuine smile bloomed on her face. "To those that have done nothing but love my creation, thank you so much for the support. You guys are the reason I continue to push my delusional mind to the next level," she declared with heartfelt gratitude.

The smile then vanished, replaced by a fierce scowl. "To the complainers," she began, her voice dripping with sarcasm, "learn to read and ask questions before being passive-aggressive. I really don't care if you don't like the fact that the Makima!reader has POC features once in a while. Go outside and touch some grass before coming back in and creating your own stuff. It's 2024, pale Y/N's are out and the inclusive POC Y/N's are in...we exiting out here. Alright, I guess that's all. Anything to say, Y/N?"

"No."

Xani chuckled awkwardly. "W-well, haha, guess that's all, bye!" she stammered, waving to the readers before collapsing back into her chair, a satisfied expression washing over her face.

She then glanced at you, a happy look on her face. "Wanna get some McDonalds?"

You roll your eyes, "Sure, but I'm not paying." With that, you both leave the room.

A/N: i wrote this because it seems a few of my readers got it confusedand obviously skipped past author's note/warning on my profile bio. I'M the author, you guys are just here for the ride. Don't get too comfortable when I'm allowing you all a peak into my world.

I've been lenient, but that stops when a few olf you go too far with the critiques. literally had to read through an entire thread being passive agressive about characters in the book. It's not my job to hold your hand and console you when something your read doesnt go the way you planned/liked.

Also, it's not the end of the world when reader-books have other signifiers besides 'pale skin'. If anything there should be NO complaints because every single individual in this world has melanin (the thing that gives us color) and if you feel like you're on the 'whiter than a piece of paper' end of the spectrum, go get some tanning lotion babes, cuz im not changing shit to cater to the exceptions.

other than that, this is my final warning to those who have done this these past few chapters/weeks, from this point on, you will be getting cussed out in the most disrespectful way AND i'm not deleting shit so every new reader can come across and see the bullshit you typed. See ya'll next update 😘❤️❤️

[fiercynn]

fic, podfic, & beta commissions to support two gazan families!

i'm opening commissions for writing fanfics, recording podfic, and offering beta services to help raise funds for rozan and aboud, two young people in gaza who are supporting their families and trying to survive this genocide! you can learn more about rozan & aboud and their campaigns here.

this might be a little different than other commission options you’ve seen because rather than setting flat rates for donations, i'm going to be asking people to become monthly subscribers to rozan & aboud’s campaign, which is minimum $10 USD per month – and, given that the genocide has no end in sight, will be continuing indefinitely. the monthly subscription is important because the needs of rozan & aboud & their families are ongoing, especially as food, water, and safe shelter become harder and harder to find in gaza, and both families have intense medical needs as well.

if you are someone who cannot commit to monthly donations but could potentially make one large donation now, do reach out and we can talk about what might work! i also have no idea what kind of response this will get, so i'm not limiting commission spots for now, but may close them if that changes.

here are details on each of the things you could commission me for!

fanfics

check out fics i've written in the past!

i will write either one fic that is minimum 4,000 words, or multiple short fics that add up to that wordcount, based on your prompt(s)

the fandoms i can solidly commit to writing for right now are bad buddy, 23.5 degrees, and my marvellous dream is you (the dramas, not the books)

if you want a shippy fic, ideal ships in those fandoms are patpran, inkpa, ongsasun, nidabambam, kimwan, and toonminnie, but if you have another pairing in mind let's chat about it

if you have a prompt for another fandom that i've written in before or that you know i’m into, pitch it to me and i'll see if i can do it, but i can't guarantee anything outside of those three fandoms i mentioned

i don’t have a list of specific tropes or themes i absolutely will not write, but depending on your prompt, i may discuss/negotiate things with you if there’s anything i might have trouble writing

podfic

check out the podfic i've recorded in the past!

i will record a podfic of one fic that is maximum 8,000 words, or multiple short podfics that add up to roughly that wordcount

if you are not the author of the fic(s), please reach out to me to let me know the fic(s) you have in mind before you ask that author for permission for me to record – there are some folks in fandom i'm not on great terms with, and i don’t think that either those authors or me would want me to record their fic!

i am open to considering any fandom, but reserve the right to not agree to a specific fandom i have not previously podficced if i don’t think I can do it justice for any reason! same for tropes/themes if i don't feel like i can do them well

beta services

if you want betaing for fanworks, i’m open to any fandom, but for fandoms i don’t know, i probably won’t be as useful when commenting on things like plot, characterization, or continuity

length limits for everything below can be for one individual piece you want betaed, or multiple shorter pieces that roughly add up to those lengths. if you only have one shorter thing that you need betaed right now, you can still ask me to beta things in the future that add up to the length limits

writing: i can beta up to 15,000 words of fanfics, original fiction, or nonfiction

podfic: i can beta up to 5 hours of podfic

fanvids: I can beta up to 20 minutes of fanvids

for all of these things, i can’t guarantee a timeline by which i'll complete the commissions, though beta services are likely to be the quickest turnaround.

if you are interested and/or have additional questions, please dm me or email me at fiercynn [at] gmail [dot] com!

[malin-moon]

Hey Mal👋

Sleep has evaded me and so my brain has the urge bother other people about it.

Since there are "Top 5" polls going around, I was wondering: 1) Who are your current top 5 Thai GL pairs?

2) As a fellow BounPrem enjoyer, now that they're with GMM, what top 5 genres/tropes would you like to see from them in regards to future projects?

Please never feel pressured to answer anything I send lol I'm just a curious bean.

Also

Thank you for tagging me in the poll thingy, I just have weird social anxiety where I think no one care about my opinions so I didn't do it ❤️

-GASP- Have I made it into the inner circle? 👋🏻 Hey Sammi!

Who are your top 5 Thai GL pairs?

Faye/Yoko's chemistry in "Blank" is off the charts. Say what you want about the show, but you cannot deny their talent. It would be great to see them star in something that hasn't been shrouded in controversy so that more people will support them. It's what they deserve!

I enjoyed watching June/View play together in 23.5. They really stole the show for me! I don't know if GMMTV has plans to put them together in another series, but I would not object.

I know "Dream" isn't everyone's favorite series right now -there seems to be a pattern-, but I am very much enjoying Fay/May and their characters. Kim/Wan's relationship is super flawed, and I like how they have conveyed that so far. I happen to have a huge crush on May Yada lol and I feel bad that they seem to get overlooked whenever they have events together with Billy/Babe.

You can't mention Thai GL without mentioning Freen/Beck. @hallowpen is really fond of them, and they've shared stories and interviews in the GC that make it pretty clear how much the girls value and cherish one another. It's really beautiful to see such a strong female bond. I'm eager to watch "The Loyal Pin" because "GAP" felt like a chore to watch -it's just my opinion, don't come for me lol-

I loved Milk/Love as Ink/Pa in "Bad Buddy". I didn't feel as attached to them as Ongsa/Sun. I think they should get another go as GL leads, in a series that's a bit more challenging for them. I know Milk can ACT and I don't think we've seen all there is to see from Love.

As a fellow BounPrem enjoyer, what top 5 genres/tropes would you like to see from them in regard to future projects?

I'm a horror girlie! Anything in that wheelhouse would be super fun! I don't count "Long Khong", Boun was barely in it lol We've seen bits of them flexing this particular acting muscle with Prem in "The Box" and future Boun -if he's still a part of it- in "Zomvivor". But I want to see them really go for it.

Boun achieved his Vampire dream, now let him have his mafia, action, crime drama fantasy. I think Prem would dig action, too. Make it enemies to lovers, mayhaps? This one's for you Sammi!

Boun/Prem do longing really well! Let's upgrade them from a side couple in someone else's fated love story to starring in their own.

I won't say no to another -or several more- fantasy series after "Revamp". I know in my gut that it will be fangtastic -insert corny smile here-

Take a page from Zee/NuNew and have Boun/Prem do a royalty romance! "The Prince and Me" gay Thai version. Hell yeah! *Put them in anything with a GMMTV GL pair. Let them interact with the lovely female talent that is so often underused over there.

[doginprogress]

The Ibizan Hound

For National Purebred Dog Day and Day of the Podenco (May 1st) please enjoy this write up I recently did on the Ibizan Hound (aka Podenco Ibicenco).

Please keep in mind that I am U.S. based, so most of my information is going to be about the community and sports here in the United States.

The beginning of the Ibizan Hound, like many primitive breeds, cannot be narrowed down to a specific set of dates or even years. Like many other Mediterranean and Middle Eastern breeds, fanciers like to compare Ibizan profiles to those of dogs found in hieroglyphs and on statues and imagine their ancestors being those who lived among the Ancient Egyptians. Then, at some point, they were said to be brought over to the island of Ibiza on trade ships. Recent genetic testing does not quite support this story, but what can't be denied is this - Ibizan Hounds have been uniquely selected and adapted over hundreds of years to hunt rabbit through the brush-filled, rocky embankments and hot, arid climate of Ibiza.

Ibizans are pack hunters - first using their eyes, ears, noses, and innate curiosity to investigate the area and find anything attempting to hide in briars or other natural formations. A bark, a wagging tail raised over the back, and an excitement for the future chase alert the other dogs and the human hunters to the prey's location, where the dogs will congregate, flush the prey from it's hideout, and hope for a quick catch. But, if the rabbit is clever enough to avoid immediate doom, the chase gives way over the harsh landscape. This is where the Ibizan's unique conformation comes in. Their front is intentionally forward set and has more elasticity than most breeds, giving them the ability to maneuver, rotate, and change direction mid-air. Combined with lithe, flat muscling, their medium size, incredible leaping prowess, and fear of nothing in the face of the hunt, most Ibizans have the drive and ability to go over, under, around, or through any natural obstacle they may find in their path. Ibizan Hounds are an excellent example of form follows function in that everything, from the ears on their head down to the tips of their tails, has been fashioned to help them excel at their purpose over the years of selection for the best hunters.

In the United States today, Ibizans have been recognized in the Hound Group by the AKC since 1978. Officially, the standard calls for females to be 22.5-26" and males 23.5-27.5", though small deviances in either direction shouldn't be held against a dog who is otherwise a nice example of the breed. With this height range, you can find dogs anywhere from 35-70+ lbs. Because of the conformation of their skeletal structure and flat muscling, it is common to find healthy or even overweight dogs who show hip bones, ribs, and spine, especially during their "teenage" phases. All purebred Ibizans will be red, white, or most likely, a combination of red and white with rosy, flesh toned noses and pigmentation. Both smooth and wire coats are allowed, and in the AKC, are shown together in the ring and can be interbred. The only disqualification in the AKC standard is for "Any color other than white or red and any pigment color which is not as described". The standard leaves enough open to personal interpretation that Ibizans tend to have a range of "styles" within the breed, while retaining the distinctive breed type. Overall, Ibizans should be elegant, refined, and "deer-like" in their appearance without being fine to the point of fragility. Moderation is an essential aspect of their appearance and ability. An Ibizan overdone in one way or another would not excel at it's original function.

Temperamentally, the word moderation could not be less true. Ibizans (affectionately called beezers by those who love them) should be stable, easy-going, and affectionate. Aloofness with strangers is common and acceptable. However, alongside all the above comes a dog with a wicked sense of humor, an innate curiosity, and the physical ability to follow through on their heart's whims. Beezers are over-the-top goofy and tend to be wildly affectionate with those in their inner circle. Ibizans are pack dogs, and should easily integrate themselves into groups and generally get along with others. They do well with routines and order, since they tend to make their own chaos, but training must be approached with the understanding that most are very easily bored, and will find it beneath themselves to repeat an activity they believe they've conquered.

While they obviously excel at running sports like lure coursing and racing, Ibizans are also able to have fun and have been making strides in sports like agility, nosework, rally, and dock diving (and rumor is a few are starting to dabble in flyball). The breed is also one that sees many Owner-Handlers win and do well in the conformation ring. Beezers are generally classified as high energy, and most are willing to keep going all day if they find whatever activity to be enjoyable. However, once they reach maturity, you're just as likely to find them lazing the day away on the comfort of a bed or couch.

Ibizan Hound Club of the United States

AKC Ibizan Hound Breed Page

FCI Podenco Ibicenco Page

(Pictures are used with permission)

[icouldhyperfixatehim]

23.5 premiere day has a lot of bl blogs showing their asses. everyone loves gl until it's time to show up and support

...sorry i didn't turn up for yuri duty on time and you took it personally? i had some shit to do today? i'll watch it tomorrow probably, and if that doesn't please the court your hanonour then feel free to shove it up your entire hole?? be well etc

[4gem]

Let's talk about the symbolism of North and Night in 23.5. So the show has all these space references, but how does it apply to NorthNight? Let's look at this line said by North to Night. Is it just plain old flirting or something more? Let's look little deeper.

Starting with, North. North can be the direction but just for kicks assume North to be North Star. North Star/Pole Star, also known as Polaris is the brightest star in the Ursa Minor constellation and only visible at night. In the northern hemisphere, it can help you find your way at night as it's located in the direction of true north. For centuries, travellers have used the North Star for navigation. In astrology, North Star can be used to refer to an individual's destiny and fate.

The significance of North saying this line to Night? If North is the North Star and Night is the night sky then, presumably, Night won't lose his way if he stays with North and it was his destiny to meet him. Or the path Night takes will lead to North. Or whatever makes sense to you.

Actually, what's more fun is the link between 23.5 and North. Earth's axis is tilted 23.5 degrees from the plane of its orbit around the sun. Ongsa uses the pseudonym Earth because she likes Sun. And where is the North Star located? Right above the North Pole of Earth's rotational axis. From the trailer, it seems like Ongsa and North are friends or at least acquaintances.

Sticking to the space/ galaxy theme, their uniforms actually have 3 symbols: a circle(?), a moon and a star. The circle could be a planet or something else. They're going all in with the space theme, got to give with that.

A lot of assumptions and hypotheses but do you see it? Did they really have to make flirting so complex, I love them already. For 2 characters not even in the actual book, this is a quite a lot of work.

Hope this was an interesting read. Anyway, please support Milk, Love, Gemini and Fourth. Can't wait to see them all together!

Actually Milk and Fourth could definitely pass off as siblings, I approve. Do you think North will be a bad boy or another hopeless romantic like Tinn? Guess we'll just have to wait to watch 23.5 and find out.

Thank you Polaris by NU'EST W for reminding me of all this. Galaxy, Look(a starlight night) by NU'EST and Space by SEVENTEEN fit the vibes of the show. 🌙✨️

[lost-my-sanity1]

Thai BL Favourites List Tag Game

Thank you @grapejuicegay for the tag :*

Favourite bl:

tough choice between bbs and msp. but I'll go with bbs for the same reasons as user grapejuicegay. it's my first one, which literally changed my life. I've never quite been the same since bbs. also the fact that we are sometimes still getting to know more facts about some scenes... sigh. p'aof created a masterpiece. truly

Favourite pairing:

again. a really tough choice.... cuz you see the list? but I would like to choose geminifourth (am I being biased with that? yes maybe but whatever)

(and actually ohmnanon and firstkhao)

More underrated actor:

I have so many and I'm gonna name some😀 satang kittiphop (It's not really a surprise to y'all 😭ik I've been very subtle with my satang served thingey I know); marc pahun. idk if he's great or not but he's cute (also to mention his pairing with pawin. they're cute asf); also neo and mark(they are not really under the wraps now but still)

Favourite character:

Heart. he has such a strong chokehold on me. like I can't explain how this goes and what all things I like about him but I do know I will give up my life (not really a tough thing💀) for him anytime

some honourable mentions- li ming cuz this 18 year old teenager has so much anger and love in him. and he's such a powerful face of a gen z created by p'aof... sigh;

wen mostly cuz he's so relatable as a character who just fell out of love. his lover did nothing wrong, it's just the simple and the hard truth that people can fall out of love the same way they fell in

(why are my favourite characters from mlc💀 hmm something about the realistic and simple thing in the series. also the helplessness of the characters and the situations they are in. the way they try to make it work with how much they have)

Favourite side character:

Tiw(msp) and Max(bmf). it's a no brainer when it comes to as why they're my favourite side character. The support and friendship they offer to their friend? unparallel. Its so nice🤧

Favourite scene:

surprise surprise madafakas. NO BUT LOOK AT THAT. a pure work of fucking art. the lights behind pran being subdued and less while the lights behind pat being more and lighted.

The fact that they kissed not inside a hidden place but outside. In the open. Its not hidden in the confinement of their rooms but its open to the world how much they want each other. The fact that their first kiss was out in the open.... idk I'm not okay

Favourite line:

"Romeo, ai'shia Romeo" 💀im so sorry y'all I can't be serious anymore

Most anticipated bl and why:

hehe😃 23.5(lesbiansssss lessgoo), dangerous romance (perthchimon, marcpawin🤧🤧 also the plot), last twilight (dude p'aof), only friends (so gay and messy)

Healthiest relationship in a bl:

patpran and their juniors tinngun, without a second thought. I don't think any explanation is needed here

Most toxic relationship in a bl:

you really want me to name them💀 idk bro they're all pretty normal and on point with real life sometimes if you think about it... so 🤷‍♀️💆‍♀️

Guilty pleasure series:

I don't really have one. wait what does guilty pleasure actually mean- ah okay got the Google meaning.💀 dude I hold everything I enjoy in a high regard.

Bonus! Most underrated series:

Agreeing with the past doers of this tag games, he's coming to me.

Ayeee this was fun😃 loved this. Thanks for the tag again. now comes another hard part. idk if y'all did this or not and if you did feel free to ignore @sharingfandoms @janujaja @hereforlou @hughungrybear @fangirlmedstudentblog @dallasthetimetraveler @iamholdingontoheartache @hometothecanyonmoon and ANYone who wants to do this please do. consider yourself tagged. or like tell me and I tag you

[stormyoceans]

my cutest lil patootie my beautiful bestie my vice versa queen HAPPIEST WOMENS DAY TO YOU MY LOVE 😚💕💕💕

I hope you spend the most wonderful day today doing the things you love, treating yourself for being the absolutely lovely lady you are and of course, swooning over our new sapphic couple 🫶🏻

Here's to more happiness for us mon 🥂

ISMAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY MY SWEETEST KINDEST WARMEST DARLINGEST RAY OF SUNSHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAPPY WOMEN'S DAY TO YOU TOO!!!!!!!!!! i indeed cannot wait to be home to finally watch 23.5 snuggled on the couch with a cup of my favorite tea. i do hope you're having a lovely day and that you're treating yourself to all the things you love as well!!!!! you're always supporting me and bringing me so much joy, i just want you to also celebrate yourself because you're amazing wonderful incredible!!!!!!!!!

PLEASE ACCEPT THIS HUMBLE BOUQUET OF SUNFLOWERS AS A SIGN OF MY LOVE

[nongnaos]

9 Fandom Peeps to Get to Know Better

Tagged by Vish 💜 @morkofday and @airenyah I wrote this up a couple of days ago and you can see my 23.5 degrees frustration happening in retrospect 😂

3 Ships You Like: PuenTalay (insane boyfriends), AkkAyan (mental illness is OUT, love and support is IN), ItsukiFuyu (insane girlfriends)!

First Ship Ever: Probably John Paul and Craig from Hollyoaks. So toxic and I wouldn't exactly recommend trying to watch it now but it meant a lot to me at the time.

Last Song You Heard: I don't remember who recommended it but Masih Sunyi by Yuna is so so pretty.

Favourite Childhood Book: His Dark Materials by Phillip Pullman. Most of this book probably went over my head bc I read it when I was about 12 and I haven't reread it, but I know it was my favourite for years.

Currently Reading: Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro. I actually bought it, read half, lost the book and had to rebuy it because I really want to finish it.

Currently Watching: Chaser Game W, She Loves To Cook And She Loves To Eat, rewatching Last Twilight with Vish.

Currently Consuming: A spearmint, apple and roibos tea that is so so tasty.

Currently Craving: 23.5 degrees to be in my eyeballs already. Please, its been 84 years 🙏

Tagging some people I dont really talk to so if you dislike being tagged pls let me know! @isaksbestpillow @redtanger @tomorrowcomesadaytoosoon @sololosabelaluna @dimpledpran @reformedcharacter @iamdefinitelynotanalien @7nessasaryevils @givemebiscuits

[hyp-no-tic]

GMMTV 2024 BINGO

Prediction/wishlist for the upcoming GMMTV event on October 17th. Thank you @icouldhyperfixatehim for creating this awesome bingo card.

I'm really late to the game but here's my bingo card for tomorrow's presscon!

At the end of the day, what I really want is to be surprised: give us things we didn't know we wanted, take risks. I want the actors to have fun with their new roles and I want them to do different things than what they're used to. Oh and let actors rest between jobs and PLEASE give the directing teams enough time to edit their series, stop rushing them to shoot and edit.

More details under the cut about what I think we're getting, things I desperately want and things I'd really like to see.

Things I'm fairly sure we're getting:

Earthmix series

Firstkhao series (pretty much confirmed)

Geminifourth series (pretty much confirmed) 

Some kind of season 2 for either/both Home School and Midnight Museum (HS I don't care for but khao+gun? SIGN ME UP / MM only bc I wouldn't say no to more TayGun and TorGun)

WinnySatang series (since they now have their logo I'd say it's pretty much confirmed as well)

Things I will riot if we don't get:

Mark fucking Pakin KISSING (I don't care who but my man got to have someone to kiss). Let’s be real Mark needs another main role or at the very least a very good supporting role because he is doing a SPECTACULAR job in OF as Nick. And I like that he isn't fixed in a CP so give me anything.

P'Jojo said somewhere that he'd like to do a domestic cutesy BL, please give the man what he wants. As a general rule, GMMTV should just let Jojo do whatever Jojo wants to do, period. (No P'Jojo is GMMTV 2024 Part 1)

More mature/adult BL (not necessarily romance office), just PLEASE LET THE BOYS AND GIRLS ACT THEIR AGE P L E A S E (or you know, use the youngins you have to play high schoolers ffs).

Neo Trai SERIOUS ROLE (listen Neo's got amazing comedic timing but he is EATING IT UP in OF).

Fluke Pusit main role (or really good supporting role) same for Gawin Caskey

AouBoom or just more Aou Thanaboon (haven't seen Hidden Agenda yet but I looooved him in BMF)

Another political drama (à la The Eclipse, Not Me)

More ensemble cast like Moonlight Chicken or Only Friends (not necessarily for the messy gay shenanigans but bc I LOVE seeing the boys act with/against each others)

If GMMTV is too scared to give us more GL (since 23.5 still hasn't aired) at least give us MORE secondary GL couples in series.

Things I would really like to see:

P’Aof recently said in a interview that he would like to work with actors he hasn't work with yet and that among gmmtv he hadn’t had the chance to work with Gun (or Krist) soooooooooo this could be the year is what I'm saying.

I want another OffGun (though I’m not holding my breath especially since we still haven't got Cooking Crush but ahem, P’Aof, P’Jojo, P'Waa anyone?)

Or even better: OffGunTayNew in the same series??? (BL or not I don't even care, I want them on the same set)

PLEASE give me something by the BMF production team (P'Waa Waasuthep, who also directed The Gifted) because Be My Favorite is definitely one of my favorite series of the year, it was perfect.

Since remakes are in right now, you know what I would love a Thai take on? Color Rush! I really liked this KBL, it had SUCH an interesting premise but… *sigh* it was way too short to be impactful imo (the vibe of the show though omg). (P'Nuchy? P'Golf?)

More trans characters with great supporting roles/strong storylines, more non-binary characters

More QUEER ELDERS!! Different generations of queer interacting (ex: the gay uncles in My Ride the series, they were EVERYTHING)

I would like to see more of Nonnie, I like what little we've seen of her in Only Friends.

VAMPIRES? SOULMATES?

I wouldn't say no to more mix and matching between the CP but helas we know how that's being received with OF from some fans... (my Firstmix heart is crying)