#paul looks so little compared to george here

[javelinbk]

Paul McCartney, Cilla Black and George Martin at the demo recording session for 'Step Inside Love', Chappell Studios, 21st November 1967 - part two (part one, three, four)

[m1ssunderstanding]

My thoughts on Beatles 64

Am I a terrible person or something because I’m genuinely having such a hard time wrapping my head around these people’s reactions to their president getting shot. Like I can count on one hand the people I’d give a fuck about in DC and I’m not crying if that happens. I’m angry. I’m scared. But I’m not sad.

Who is this covering all my loving? It’s pretty.

I will forever love Paul and George’s big and little brother dynamic. Deep, cloudy scouse: they’re in perfect synchronization. Bright, squeaky scouse: Are they? Like, where is George’s little chimney sweep costume?!

And Paul’s sharp tone calling John’s name. I don’t know, I could obsess over any little scrap of footage of them. I just love picking apart details that reveal dynamics.

George’s insecure, curious, “Are you filming now?” Compared to his over-it, sardonic, “Are you recording our conversation?” He aged about twenty years between 64 and 69.

John’s reaction to his own voice in his ears is always a straight shot of joy.

I like that they’re showing all the boys. You know, because if only girls like them, then they’re just a silly pop group, but if boys like them too, well. That’s something else, isn’t it?

One of my favorite moments. No wonder Paul took so well to shepherding. His blood pressure spiking if John gets out of arm's reach. And John is of course so happy to be pulled back in.

Their hair really was so fluffy!

John spreads his legs when he’s playing because he’s an anxious attachment. Paul keeps his legs closed because he’s avoidant. In this essay I will.

This mix of She Loves You is really highlighting Ringo’s drumming for me. He’s so talented and attractive.

This is why Paul’s my favorite, genuinely. Because he goes from the most polite, people-pleasing, tender-heart to an absolute mean girl cunty bitch in the span of less than a second.

Ringo is the quickest wit, I’m telling you, and if anyone says otherwise, I’m cancelling you for classism.

Why is it always Paul these middle aged creeps feel the need to touch? I mean, I know why. But it makes me sick. That kind of thing is reserved for the mutuals. Definitely not cops.

It’s literally sooooo funny for me seeing this guy choke up about She Loves You. Like I’m genuinely happy for him, but I was literally just over at my husband’s grandparents double-wide and they Still go on about how stupid the Beatles haircuts were and how they remember the days before the Beatles when there was ‘real’ rock and roll on the radio.

So, Paul’s been telling the story of Jim critiquing She Loves You for literally sixty years now, and originally it was with mix-ins from John and George and without a lot of artificial sweeteners. Here’s the sixty-year-old version:

Back home in Liverpool, we used to sing over some of our songs to relatives—I did to my Dad and my aunties,” he recalled. “My Dad would look at me looking disappointed. ‘I don’t know young Paul,’ he’d say. ‘I try to get you to speak properly, and you drop your aitches. Why sing ‘Yeah, Yeah’ when you mean ‘Yes, Yes?’ I tried to explain this was the whole point of the song,” Paul continued. John broke in: “Anyone ever heard someone from Liverpool singing ‘Yes’? It’s YEAH.” Paul continued: “Well, we just laughed. My Dad gave us some of the worst advice ever. He said this music thing will never last. It’s all right on the side, he’d say, BUT PAUL IT WILL NEVER LAST!” “Remember,” said George, “he always wanted us to sing ‘Stairway to Paradise’?” – Ray Coleman article 1964

What a cutie. Shouldn't be allowed.

“That wasn’t really the case.” (that America was the land of the free). He always almost gets to his political views. You know? Microdosing? Left-bating? Maybe both. Whatever.

I LOVE their funny little accents with all my heart. John does posh scarily well.

Ringoooooooo!

“Go on! Defy convention!” Quotes that define the speaker. He should sell t-shirts with that slogan.

This girl’s Brooklyn accent and her confidence are so beautiful!

Why did they buy John an ID I’m actually dying! Oh! They don’t mean, they mean like Paul’s and Ringo’s bracelets. Got it. Okay. I was like ‘are you trying to help him ten years in advance with his immigration struggle?’

The juilliard girl is phenomenal.

I want the nylons and I want the shoes.

“Would you do me a tremendous favor?” “I’m not gonna kiss you like Elisabeth Taylor.” See? Ringo is the funny one. Ringo is so fucking sharp and nobody gives him the credit he’s due.

Ronnie Spector you deserved better, Queen! I love her. She’s so gorgeous, she’s so cool, she’s so young and energetic!

Two excellent Lennonisms right in a row. “Have you been watching the newsies?” and “I don’t care,” I say as I care caringly. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, he has the most sunshiny smile in the Beatles.

Ringoooooo!

Not the picture of JohnandPaul singing together as “with lovers and friends” plays.

Love Paul offering Ringo a candy. In yet another accent. People need to make them talk in goofy accents more in fic because it’s incessant. But I just love them offering each other food. It’ll always get me.

See, this is what I love about John. “People have been tryna stamp out rock and roll since it started.” “Why do you think that is? What are they afraid of?” “I always thought it was cause it came from black music.” He’s not ‘honest to a fault’ or whatever the boomer men love to say. But he’s very, very blunt, and he’s not going to try and skirt anything. You know?

Literally the most embarrassing thing a person can ever be is white.

“I thought it was very weak. You know what I think, I call a spade a spade. I thought it was weaker than weak.” Cook him! And then the mimicking! I love him so much! Holy shit, that would’ve been so enraging.

And then the quiet sass of the guy being interviewed right after. “Well, the versatility, the originality. I like anything that’s original.” I love some clever tumblr web-weaving in my documentaries.

In my husband’s grandparent’s defense, the “real rock and roll” they loved before the Beatles was literally only black artists.

I love this picture for ever. Look at how tight he’s holding on to John with one hand and the other hand raised in joyous triumph, engagement bracelet visible. This is Paul in heaven.

“The whole assumption of male vs female is not prominent. They’re sort of in-between.” Yes. Love. Keep going.

Ringo’s got all the quips, again. “Ringo, look over here!” Puts his hands up. “Don’t shoot!”

I didn’t know Smokey Robinson and the Miracles went to the Cavern, that’s cool! And here I was thinking I wouldn’t learn anything new from this doc. His whole interview is very lovely and generous.

I always think “You’ve Really Got a Hold on Me” probably spoke to John in terms of his relationship with Paul, but I go there so easily. Anyway, Smokey Robinson had every right to be pissed that they released a cover of his song without even asking. Like that would be illegal nowadays, right? And yet he’s so kind about it.

We talk about how scary Beatlemania was and we should because it was, but it really puts it in perspective for me personally hearing Smokey say he was shot at for trying to use the bathroom.

Oh I love that we have footage of Paul taking Ringo’s picture! Makes me think of “eye of the storm” obviously, but also the way he’s mocking the photographer's jargon of the time as he’s doing it. The fact that he ended up marrying a photographer who made a point to depict him as not just “some doe eyed sex object” in her pictures, and also of his song “pretty boys” and his quotes about the sexualization of “male models”. Definitely not about anything he himself experienced. Anyway, thoughts. Strings. Pins. Etc.

Also Ringo turning to the camera still filming him, “what do you think I am, a monkey?” Remember that part in this footage where Ringo says something like, “are we ever going to have a break from all these cameras?” And he’s exhausted. It really seems like, from the footage selected by this doc at least, that Paul and Ringo were doing the bulk of the lifting at this time just with cooperating with the show biz stuff. And isn’t that (interesting? Sad? Poetic? Good?) that they’re the ones still cooperating sixty years later.

How dare they cut out “but we ain’t written no poetry!”

As John’s panicking, “how are we gonna – have you seen the kids? How are we gonna get in, then?” Paul’s just calmly going, “Hi girls!” With a patient smile and a cute little wave. “I’ll just go in and speak to the people first, okay?” I love Paul “calming-down-other-people’s-hysteria-is-my-calling-in-life” McCartney.

Cute, George introducing a song he’ll do a viral backflip to in twenty years.

I wonder what that letter is. John’s being very tender with it.

“You’re fired!” “It’s Love Me Do, whacker!” With the sweetest most innocent smile. I love when John is John, you know?

“To me they’re all obviously low or middle class, highly illiterate, unintelligent wild kids seeking a little fun and pleasure . . . I think there’s something very strange about it at the same time, something very sick. . . . I’m sure that sexual reasons have something to do with it. They find the Beatles sexually attractive and they’ve made some kind of psychological tie with them. I think the whole thing’s a little bit frightening and quite sick.” Where’s that old meme with Trump describing the democrats in the most hateful terms he can think of and people being like “yep that’s me”?

Paul stopping to say goodbye by name to each of the people who've been in their hotel room one by one. It’s giving *Opra voice* “and you please don’t hate us and you please dont hate us and you please don’t hate us”

Ringo coming back because he went the wrong way is the most me-core thing.

Paul will come in with the random shouts and yelling in the middle of a song he’s singing lead on all the way from the very beginning and all the way to the very very end, huh.

I just get filled with so much rage at this image of the Bernstein family, especially after the footage of the Gonzalezes. Like, I know I need therapy. I know. But it costs money. Anyway, all rich people can go straight to hell. “I was allowed to wheel the TV set down from the library, down the corridor and into the dining room.” Oh, were you! Well, you must be very special, then.

I wonder if Paul’s title of his exhibition has anything to do with this quote from John about “It was like being in the eye of a hurricane.”

The girl hanging on Ringo like a jungle-gym is me. I love the way he flirts, it’s so smooth, physical, casual.

Classic John moment and he doesn’t even open his mouth.

My dearest wish is that these two are happily married now, holding hands in the theater watching this.

The voice of the woman asking Paul “what do you think of the American TV” sounded extremely like Linda’s. I sort of panicked for a second. Linda’s voice is lower, but the accent and cadence and the sort of wealthy slouch is the same.

I love them picking up on the dystopian beginnings of America’s version of late-stage capitalism and broadcasting the ridiculousness of it all to a public that didn’t know any different. “The situation in China is very bad. Have you ever wondered, when you’re eating at home?”

The guys setting up wearing Beatles wigs? Ew. Why?

Ringo’s so funny! “Watch any band. If anything goes wrong, they go – Blame the drummer.” And he’s so endearing and sweet. “I just always wanted to be IN the band, not like ‘oh, I’m over here.’” Reminds me of his quote about being lonely as an only child and ending up with three brothers. What a tenderheart.

Huh. Always thought some idiots just set up his rostrum backwards. The rest of the stage spinning around it makes much more sense.

That little smile between the two of them.

George in tears! Poor baby! I really do think, with the way this affected him on another level than it affected the others, and with the way he talked about his experiences at the Inny compared to Paul (not that you can trust Paul to say anything actually gets to him) that George maybe was more sensitive to classism than the others.

I hope Paul said something to that affect to George after. “They’re working at an embassy. We’re on the road, rocking. I don’t give a flying fuck.” You know? I could see it.

Another thing I love about John. You need that guy on your team, whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish. That when people are being bitchy, you tell them to fuck off and you leave. I bet Paul, George, and Ringo were so relieved that John did that for them.

After Ringo talked about not wanting to be back behind and separate from the band, I’ve noticed all three of them stepping back sometimes to stand more in line with him when they’re not singing. I don’t know if it was conscious or natural, but either way, I love that they did that and I’m sure Ringo did too.

The looks and smiles

I usually maintain that Paul is only sexy from 60-61 and from 68-98 and from 18-now. But. This is just objectively hot, I don’t care who you are.

It’s so sweet to see George being such a ham, getting John to do silly bits with him, putting on a waiter’s uniform and passing out drinks, climbing up in the luggage compartment. I wish they could’ve somehow kept it at a pace that was manageable for him so he could’ve kept on being so happy with his life, you know? I mean it’s not like it just disappears completely. There’s some of it in Get Back and even in Anthology, but it’s just not the same.

This is what happens when you’re a slut, Paul. You get paternity suits that ruin your mood. Shame, shame.

Interesting that Paul points out Brian’s “defying convention” by having them play their scandalous rock and roll shows in all these “hallowed halls”. I’d never thought about it as Brian’s conscious decision but obviously it must’ve been, and that’s very clever and snarky of him.

“That man, who is strong enough to be gentle, that is a new man.” Betty Friedan is pro-beatle. We love to see it!

Watching Paul try to behave like a human being on stage with all of his early twenties energy is honestly painful. It’s like Kurt Vonnegut’s Harrison Bergeron, you know? Like I can just see him aching to let himself free, but there are weights put in place for a reason. I know Brian was right to calm them down, and this documentary is proof that if he hadn’t done his taming, either they never would’ve made it or there would’ve been all-out class warfare or something, but it breaks my heart, it really does.

Ronald Isley, again, just like Smokey Robinson, being so so charitable here, and managing to do so without playing down the fact that things were absolutely rigged against him and his group at the time. “We should be on the Ed Sullivan show doing . . .” Yes. Yes.

I looked it up, and this quote is genuine. “If it wasn’t for the isley brothers, we would still be in Liverpool.” – Paul McCartney. That’s one thing I love about him. He’s always giving – very much due – credit to his black contemporaries. People ask him about Elvis and he always says, “yes, and Little Richard.” People say he was the most innovative bass player of his time and he says, “yes, and Fred Thomas.”

Ringo literally gets me every time. George: I don’t remember Wales. Ringo: It was before you joined the group.

The way Paul talks about George living “the good life” is very much in the tone of an older brother who’s helped his little brother do well for himself, you know? It’s adorable.

Of course Paul’s out feeding seagulls.

Not even going to comment on the “i love you” thing. Nope.

Okay I do have to say, the end of this guy’s story about going to liverpool and getting deported is incredibly sweet. I was kind of ignoring him, and then when he said he met John during Imagine, I sort of braced myself. But it turned out absolutely adorable. I love John’s little antenna miming and that he promoted this guy just for having made the front page of the Liverpool Echo. It’s all very John, very endearing.

I hope Paul and this weepy old guy had a talk about healing yourself from abuse through music. There’s like a 1/100 chance, but I still hope they did.

John loves a good boat analogy, doesn’t he? “There was a ship going to discover the new world. And the beatles were in the crows nest on the same ship [as everyone else] and we just said ‘land ho!’

Love the use of “Roll Over Beethoven” as the final song.

[bambi-kinos]

excerpts from the McLennon server (hamburg part 2)

Thank you everyone for your patience. This is Part Two of the ongoing Hamburg Conversation from the McLennon server. Part One is here: https://www.tumblr.com/bambi-kinos/718114537612656640/excerpts-from-the-mclennon-server

In Part Two of the Hamburg Conversation we discussed the 1960 trip from Paul’s POV and why he abandoned the Beatles to get a job as a coil winder. This goes into Stuart and Klaus and the Exis, plus how Paul reacted to John’s mind games where he pitted his loved ones against each other. Much has been made of John in Hamburg and how it connected to his later patterns but very little discussion of Paul comparatively.

This conversation was much messier as it spanned several days. We used Discord’s “reply” feature liberally. Sometimes you will see disparate time stamps; this is because I decided to pair the replies with the original comments they were replying to for the sake of readability. Please let me know if there are any confusing points where this doesn’t work and I’ll do my best to clarify the conversation. 

***

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:02 PM I am back on my bullshit about Hamburg again. this period is just super fascinating to me because of all the possibilities and the way things happened the way they did

I also want to understand why Paul chose John when the first Hamburg trip really sucked in a lot of ways and it could easily have ended with them going off to do something else.

in the beginning John helped Stuart bully Paul and he ostracized Paul from the group via the Exis (apparently deliberately? I go back and forth on this all the time, because I wouldn't put it past John to do it on purpose... but then again his MO was to get enamored with something new only to eventually drop it and snuggle up to Paul again so John probably didn't see it that way?) But once all of that was over and they were back in Liverpool, John tracked down Paul and he had to do a lot of shitwork to get back into Paul's good graces again.

Paul found a job at his dad's behest but I don't think he would have continued with the Beatles if John hadn't come to fetch him. John did something really smart when he came to fetch Paul from the yard where Paul was working: he brought George. First he had to tell George "yeah I'm back" but then he brought George with him to ask Paul to come back. Smart. Strength in numbers. Shows that he's serious and it doesn't look like he's begging because he brought another band member with him.

but Paul didn't leave that job immediately. It took months for Paul to fully come back to the Beatles. John eventually had to give him an ultimatum. I think after the experience of Stuart and the Exis and the group bullying, I think that those months were John working his way back into Paul's good graces again. And eventually Paul forced John to prove that he still wanted Paul, in a way. Earlier when we talked about this Betty made a really good point that Paul was the one fighting for the music, like John was. Stuart met Astrid and John let him go because he knew Stuart was already choosing Astrid over him so it was better not to fight it. But that period after John came back... that's fascinating. John recuperated for a while by not telling anyone he had come back. Paul got a job (and it sounds like he didn't need a lot of pushing) and I think it was because he might have been preparing to leave the Beatles thing behind completely.

Like I think Paul came back to Liverpool thinking that he and John were not friends anymore. IMO Paul carried the memory of the experience with the Exis around and that he remained distant from them forever.

Funnily enough, Paul has turned out the real black sheep of the whole trip. Everybody hates him and I only feel sorry for him.” — Stuart Sutcliffe in a letter to Rod Murray, late 1960

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:09 PM I mean look at that. Look at the sheer petty contempt in that quote + the caricature. That's something else man. There's no way Paul doesn't carry the memory of that with him. And I think its present in the Revolver cover as well. Look at how Klaus portrays Paul:

I think Paul looks off to the side because that's all Klaus really gets out of him. We all know what it's like to be treated in a crappy way by friends-of-your-friends and I've said before that I think the first Hamburg trip is where a lot of John and Paul's patterns got solidified. So Paul isn't friends with the Exis, even in 1966, because he remembers who Klaus is and who he hung out with and I think those memories are very painful for him. He holds on to them. Maybe not grudges but he holds onto that pain. (And I mean, that's fair. I still remember my elementary school bully and if she were on fire in front of me I wouldn't even take a whizz on her.)

Klaus only ever saw Paul's profile... if they don't meet your eyes do you really know them? John rarely met Yoko's eyes in public I notice, whereas he was constantly diving into Paul's.... right up until that photo from the Lost Weekend where he's turned as far away from Paul as he can get... So Paul's profile being the thing Klaus drew speaks to the distance between Paul and Klaus... and Paul and the other Beatles. Even among other misfits, Paul doesn't fit in. In a lot of ways Linda was the only one who could accept him for his true self even if there was a lot of nastiness underneath that.

I think the 1966 cover is indicative that Paul held Klaus at a distance, even then. Klaus saw Paul's loneliness in Hamburg and how this made him bitter, apparently doesn't empathize with it very much since he played on HDYS.

If Klaus had tried to make friends with Paul as adults, he would have run full into the Wall. There's no way that Paul McCartney would be friends with someone who drew a caricature of him like that when Paul was friendless and in pain and the only thing he had was music and girls.

And I understand that Hamburg was full of psychosexual drama from 18 and 20 year olds, but I think that its significant because of how Paul got frozen in time due to the fame thing, struggling to grow up, suffering from a kind of Peter Pan syndrome.

So I find it interesting that... Paul got a job after Hamburg. I don't think John would have had to show up with George on Paul's lunch break and essentially beg him to come back if Paul had been gung ho about the Beatles. John had to earn his way back into a friendship with Paul. It took months for Paul to give up the job and join the Beatles fully, John remembers it as a "long trip."

There's another recollection that when John finally gave Paul the ultimatum that Paul bounced into the Cavern -- what if this is Paul being happy that John chose him, that John cared enough to give Paul an ultimatum?

John remembers it as a custody battle between him and Jim where he fought Jim for Paul's attention... but what if Paul saw it as something else entirely?

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/07/2023 11:20 PM Like, Paul got a job after Hamburg. He didn't know that John was back in town. I don't think we know when John told him that he was back. I think Paul got a job because he thought that he and John were not friends anymore after his experiences in Hamburg and the last thing he expected was for John to show up and nag him about coming back. I think Paul was convinced that John would go all in with Stuart and the Exis or that they were a sign that John was done with Paul completely. He didn't understand that John was watching Paul the entire time they were in Hamburg, watching Paul be in the filth with him, taking the pills and dealing with the gangsters and living for the music in a way that Stuart never could.

And from Paul's POV, the long stretch of months between John finding him at the spooling yards to beg Paul to come back, and Paul being given an ultimatum that he needed to choose between his job or the Beatles -- I think that period was Paul waiting to see if John really loved him/was really wanting to be Paul's friend or not.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 4:56 AM Paul doesnt suffer fools gladly, he called out the Exis on some of their bullshit and they didnt like it. They also took to Stuart and I would imagine it was a case of if your friend doesnt like someone then they dont either. Ive always felt that Klaus didnt like Paul, most of his drawings of him arent very nice, theres an odd one thats ok. That Revolver cover has always irked me with how hes drawn Paul compared to the others. I like your take on it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:01 AM Do you remember the details on Paul's interactions with the Exis? I don't remember that from Tune In.

That's a really good point about Stu not liking him so the others took the lead from him, oof.

I think Klaus may have (hopefully) chilled out on Paul since then but yeah, I don't think they're really friendly towards each other. Maybe "dislike" is too strong but they only ever had John and Stu in common and, well. Paul never let Klaus in.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Ive read of it somewhere but cant remember where!  It was just a sentence or two.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:04 AM Probably a Paul bio of which I am reading McCartney Legacy

we'll have to wait for Betty to wake up

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 5:45 AM I wonder, when Stuart left the Beatles, did Klaus hope to take his place on the bass. Paul stepping in would have been another reason to dislike him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:47 AM That's an interesting idea. No clue but maybe that's an angle....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:16 PM He did. I believe he says it in his memoirs, but also in an interview about the book in 2001. He said he asked John, but it was too late; Paul had already taken up the bass

Even if that had happened, I don’t think Klaus would’ve fit in, them all being from Liverpool and Klaus being German (I’m half-German, I can say that lol)

Plus he came from a very rich (diamond mines etc) background..sure, his family lost everything in the war, but some of the posh attitude was still there. And despite being fascinated by it, he didn’t consider rock n roll “real” music

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:19 PM did not know this about Klaus, huh

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM He talked about his grandfather being this fabulously rich eccentric

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:25 PM huh! i need to check his stuff out then

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:31 PM It’s in this German interview

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/im-interview-klaus-voormann-ich-waere-besser-gewesen-als-paul-1.432929

With the provocative headline “I would’ve been better than Paul”

Apple_Scruff — 05/08/2023 5:48 AM Paul playing based has always sounded like a forced thing out of desperation.

I doubt he would have agreed to switch to bass if Klaus was offering.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 5:51 AM Agree but....he may not have liked it if Klaus offered since he was so pushy about Stuart's playing.

BRrraCKets! — 05/08/2023 6:14 AM He didnt want anyone else muscling in. The group nucleus was set. His guitar was shot, he was filling in on piano, a bit of bass when S couldnt be arsed to show up, what else was he to do when G&J downright refused to take it on. Theyd gone home by then too.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 7:50 AM unfortunately I can't think of anything like that in what I've read, I'll take a look at Tune In and the other Paul bios I have later We know that Paul is willing to ice people out when he feels they aren't working out for him as friends/collaborators, and after months of doing the most for the group and getting shat on  by his songwriting partner and the Exis he was probably thinking "fuck it, I don't need this treatment" and got a job to start separating himself from the group

But John knows by now that Paul is his golden ticket and he has to get Paul back, so once he gets over the self-pity of leaving Hamburg in disgrace and works up the courage to ask Paul to come back, he brings George along to present a united front

The Beatles first show after coming back from Hamburg was on December 27 1960 at Litherland Town Hall, a few weeks after John arrived back in Liverpool

And I'd bet anything that Paul skipping back to rehearsal all smiles was because he felt like he'd gotten one over on Stuart and the Exis, in a "nyah-nyah he chose me over you (blows raspberries and making wanking motion)" kind of way

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:46 AM yesss perf

And it all worked out for him when John didn't discipline Paul for punching Stuart even tho he most likely lost

He had a good feeling about John making his choice too....

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:24 AM According to that interview from 2001, Klaus asked John to join and play bass right after Stu left, but John said Paul had already taken up the bass

Of course, in 2001, Klaus was still speculating what would have happened if he became the 5th Beatle and saying he thinks his bass playing would’ve been better for John’s style in later years

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:33 AM That whole interview [Klaus] showed both admiration and, imo, some disdain for Paul (and Paul wrote the foreword for his book, I believe) In that Interview he also vehemently denies anything sexual between John and Stu

It’s a fascinating period. I believe I read John was back in Liverpool anywhere from 10 days to three weeks before contacting George and Paul Which means he couldn’t have been to any of their usual hangouts

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:36 AM lol lmao

>better for John's later style >john and stu had nothing sexual going on incredible. so many things wrong

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM John periodically took time off to recharge, it was one of his quirks/needs.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:45 AM I thinks it’s still a bit of envy…everyone who got close to the Beatles and thinks “what if”

To be fair, he did admit that Paul was instrumental in making the Beatles famous, because “John wasn’t a frontman” and Paul was the only professional of the group

But you can read between the lines that there is disdain there for the Beatles’ early sound and Paul was a “charlatan”….the PR man

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:58 AM It’s interesting that John said the way he felt after he came back after Hamburg was similar to how he felt before Paris 1961…but time he wanted Paul to be there

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:09 PM and Paris 1961 ended up being a two week period of great renewal and joy for John, all because of Paul. No wonder he tried to recreate it with Yoko.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:41 AM It’s such a fascinating period! In the breakup Paul must’ve recognised some of John’s behaviour from back then. Dropping Paul and replacing him with someone else who is more arty and special. John may have been being tactical about it back then, maybe playing Paul and Stu against each other,  waiting to see where the nexus of power/talent/ambition lay, and therefore his future. Paul wouldn’t have appreciated that at all, like who would? Also John must’ve known the power he had over Paul, and vice versa, in any number of ways inc sexuality, attraction, love, obsession. That cartoon by Klaus is so deeply unkind, coupled with Stu’s letter. You have to wonder what Paul was like with them, and what all of their behaviour was like on the daily.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 11:51 AM But it is so interesting that Paul got a crappy job on the lorries, John ignored them all for weeks, and Stu was never coming back to the band. Because the gig they subsequently did that Christmas at Litherland Town Hall was where they realised how good they were compared to the Liverpool bands, and how vastly exciting the public found them. So back from Hamburg they obviously collectively didn’t know where they were going or what they were doing, or even if they were a band. I wonder just how much persuasion had to go on on John’s part to get back in with Paul. A lot of charming, a lot of fuss and attention, persuading, light grovelling

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:18 PM in Tune In there's a lot of quotes from George about how they felt they had a lot of talent compared to the other bands, even when they were JaPaGe and they didn't actually warrant the confidence. I think for them they were seeking energy, technical ability, and stamina which Hamburg earned them in spades and brought their talent up to their expectations at last.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 11:57 AM Definitely shades of Yoko/John later on…Paul probably hoped/thought that would play out the same way as Stu.

But we also get so many contradictory stories out of Hamburg, like John claiming he and Paul bullied Stu and afterwards felt bad about it John turned away from music after Julia’s death and turned to drink and rage,  it also kinda to Stu and art..only Paul’s persistence in pursuing John (for the band, for himself) turned that a bit back around.

I always wonder if at that point, John wasn’t getting from Paul what he really wanted, also there was still the age gap.. Stu was older, maybe came across as more mature and adventurous

Even George, I believe, said with Yoko, John was trying to replicate what he had with Stu.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:20 PM Yeah. its a conundrum about what that means. Did John actually feel bad after bullying Stu or did he only feel bad because then Stu died and he did some self reflecting?

Paul was very instrumental in helping John cope with losing Julia, to be fair. Paul is cited by many outsiders to be the only one who never lost his patience with John even when he was being a public embarrassment or acting violent and cruel. my personal take is that Paul is the one who cleaned John up and made him fit company for Stu and Cynthia and otherwise they would have both run away from John..

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:01 PM That is completely fascinating to think of Yoko as a Stu replacement.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 12:03 PM Yoko’s comments how John talked about Stu every day and how he was the best friend he ever had…I always thought she did that hurt Paul. And also, Stu died so young, I can believe John put him up on some untouchable pedestal that wouldn’t have survived if Stu had lived

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:04 PM Agreed. You have to wonder what Lennon/McCartney would have been like with a Sutcliffe in the mix. Maybe not that different, possibly. Because Paul grew in confidence and became endlessly bold and weird

louiselux — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM Yoko likely said a lot of things with the intention of hurting him

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:08 PM A lot of people who were John-oriented have this complaint, that they think Paul was somehow "fake" just because he's good at selling and connects with an audience. IMO it always says a lot more about the complainer's personal issues with Paul rather than it being a legitimate criticism. Klaus doesn't like Paul because Paul cut the Exis down to size and Stuart apparently overtly hated him, then Stuart died and Paul took over the bass position which Klaus apparently asked for himself (‼️) and then Paul had the nerve to go swanning all over the world getting famous for being John's creative partner.... and no matter what Klaus says, he has eyes, he knows how John looked at Paul and what that meant.

It's just another case of someone being bitter because of Paul's success. John used Klaus as a bassman on HDYS the recording that Ringo walked out on but George did not.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:16 PM It being John looking for a potential future, that's an interesting idea. I think at that point John had kind of given up on that since he had been kicked out of art school by that point or was on his way to doing it. Music became his life because it kept his attention and he loved it -- he told a girl he was dating at the Cavern not to screw up her placement at art school the way he did. I don't know if he had high expectations for himself there -- what did John think of his heart? was he actually proud of it?

Paul said that he'd sometimes gang up on Stu with John as well as vice versa so I think it was definitely a case of John pitting them against each other to make them compete for the Best Friend spot. But then when Paul was deported he got a job instead of crawling back to John.... very reminiscent of the break up. Paul would fight for John but once he perceived he lost (Stu, Yoko) then he was perfectly capable of cutting John off. Paul is sensitive to being mistreated.

this is all speculation but I think that first trip was hard for Paul. He was lonely, he wanted John's attention, probably acted out and then got mocked and jeered at for it.

So he paid women to pay attention to him and then he was attractive and treated them decently which made him popular so while John is enjoying Stu's company and hanging out with the Exis, Paul simply hides in women and practices his guitar.

We have seen this before.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 12:21 PM John wanted an equal and Paul just wasn't it, even if they had chemistry. John didn't take Paul seriously until Hamburg in 1960 when he watched Paul become a man and watched him be furiously independent no matter what slings and arrows he took.

But Stu was patient and was able to meet John on a different field with Art, and John needed that very much. Paul was too young for what he wanted in a very real way.

with a Stuart that lived, I think Paul would have been pushed to make a public declaration to John instead of waffling forever. Stu was Paul's only serious competition.

louiselux — 05/08/2023 1:31 PM I think so too! Something would have had to give, because John could have gone running off to Stu at any moment

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 1:33 PM I do wonder about that scenario. It looked like John had accepted that Stu was off with Astrid. And the Paris honeymoon happened while Stu was still alive. It seems like J and P had cemented and defined their relationship

Now if Stu and Astrid didn’t last and Stu came back to Liverpool at some point…

He may have always been hanging around in the background…or maybe not.

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:04 PM John praising Paul's abilities as a bass player in 1980 must have rankled him lol, he said Paul was one of the most innovative bass players in rock

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 2:27 PM addendum: The Beatles with Chas Newby on bass played the Casbah on December 17 1960, we regret the error

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 2:36 PM Good! I hope it rankled

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 3:35 PM Stu had no future in Liverpool and he knew it. His application for a position at the Liverpool art college was rejected and he had a great apprenticeship going with an older German artist who recognized his talent. Stuart had no reason to back to Liverpool except to visit. I also think that Stu found his person in Astrid and their relationship would have worked.

I think the greatest threat to Paul would not be Stu's presence but what he represented in John's life: a peer who had a profound hold on John in an avenue that Paul wasn't confident about competing in. I think Paul would be very worried about John going back to Stu for sure, because he can't help being insecure about their relationship.

I think, to this day even since John is fucking dead, Paul is still worried that he will make John disgusted or bored and that John will leave him again. Irrational? Yeah. True? You bet.

I think a timeline where Stuart lives would force Paul into a corner: either he breaks the relationship or he takes a leap of faith.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 4:01 PM if anything else, this fundamental fear of Paul's would be the driver to any action Paul took regarding John in a timeline where Stuart lives. The deathly fear that Stu will take John away from him, again... Stu didn't have to be present in Liverpool, his specter would hang over everything.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 4:25 PM I can completely see that. And totally agree on Paul’s fears until this day.

I just wonder if Stu would’ve kept this idealised spot… or if he would’ve pissed John off some point like a lot of people did, which led John to cutting him off.

Or, I guess, John could’ve remained loyal to him like he did to many old friends (at least until New York) and maybe got him to do cover or promo art for The Beatles. Can you imagine?!

Stu was so very young; it’s difficult to say what could’ve happened

Misery — 05/08/2023 4:30 PM God and the thing with Paul in Hamburg too is like

Here’s this high strung cash strapped teenager. Now we’re going to take him to a foreign country, get him addicted to amphetamines, and completely abandon him for a “cooler” friend group. Wait, why is he being so annoying?????

Like, the exis loved George, and Pete was just doing his own thing because he was so independent from the rest of the group, meanwhile Paul is all of a sudden entirely friendless for seemingly no reason, and the things that he was doing back in Liverpool are suddenly seen as annoying and stupid, and he’s being ignored left and right.

And obviously the huge caveat for the drama in Hamburg is of course that they were all idiot teens/barely adults, who had suddenly been thrust into a new stressful circumstance, so no wonder they all went insane a little bit.

Like you’ve all said it’s something that time/stu living would change a lot, but that wasn’t meant to be

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 6:24 PM I really feel for Paul during that trip. I think we can kinda guess what he was feeling, but I can’t get a real read on John at the time.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:24 PM Yeah, John is a real enigma here. He was very close mouthed about this period aside from some little things. Presumably because it's too painful with Stuart's death. Or maybe he just didn't care because the whole thing didn't have the same weight for him as it did for Paul... or he was too ashamed to talk about it....

But John not caring seems very unlikely since Hamburg 1960 is where he came out even more insane about Paul.

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 7:33 PM It might’ve been the drugs, his sexual explorations, mental health issues..but it is interesting he didn’t really talk about that period… Maybe too painful because it was the real start of them as The Beatles and he really missed it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 7:38 PM ouch

this is a big part of it i bet

mynamesbetty — 05/08/2023 8:04 PM Tune In, written by the king of the Paul haters, pg 374-5

Many Years From Now, pg 64-5

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 8:06 PM the amount of seething contempt for a lonely 18 year old in these paragraphs, astounding

Morrigan — 05/08/2023 10:26 PM And I don’t think we can 100% trust Stu’s view of things either. That’s maybe how he wanted things to be. I’m not saying Paul didn’t have a rough time, but Stu may have embellished somewhat in that letter (because he also knew how important Paul was to John ultimately)

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/08/2023 10:54 PM Yeah. It occurs to me (like now, as I'm writing this) that Stuart was probably venting in that letter. I don't think he liked Paul at all but that's a lot of hatefulness in one sentence and I really dislike the idea of John deliberately tolerating someone who overtly despised Paul that much. John was an asshole at times but I struggle to imagine him encouraging that level of antipathy. So hopefully it wasn't quite that bad for Paul.

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:12 AM Also him thinking that a letter from anyone reveals ‘the stark truth of the matter’ rather than just another pov on a situation. Mehhhh. I didn’t know that about Klaus asking to be the bass player. He seems to be a person who was used to getting what he wanted, being rich and pretty, and is it possible that he resented Paul for taking a place in the Beatles/John’s friendship that he thought should have been his?

louiselux — 05/09/2023 3:26 AM The situation is weird and so opaque. I doubt John ‘hated’ Paul, as Stu put it, because why would he suddenly hate him after being so close? But John might’ve loved being accepted as a part of the new exciting clique and that might’ve trumped everything else for a bit. John was obsessed with having his gang. It feels like a lot of heightened teenage dynamics we’re going on.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:23 AM thinking that the letter holds some objective truth is a classic mistake that Lewisohn makes all the time, because its easier than accepting that there were multiple POVs on what happened. Lewisohn thinks he can flatten everything and that there's an objective "truth" to discover and present (courtesy of him naturally.) It's just dumb no matter what. One of the first things I was taught about historical study was that primary sources are king because multiple POVs proliferate. It was Paul who compared Beatlemania to an earthquake and how different stories sprout from it and they're all true.

I wonder how much Klaus was shitposting or trying to grab attention via headlines with claims like that. I would be very surprised if John gave serious consideration to Klaus joining the band, Paul was already a sure thing and he clearly wasn't going to be happy with anyone else playing bass. I hope Klaus didn't actually think he had a shot, it just makes no sense for Klaus to join the Beatles from any angle.

If he really believed that he had a shot at joining the Beatles and Paul somehow stood in his way.... then uhhhh what the heck lmao

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:34 AM This seems very likely, good insight. Makes me wonder if John staying friends with Paul might have rankled Stu as their rivalry increased? "Don't worry Rod everyone else totally hates him here but I only feel sorry for him."

John liked new experiences and getting swept away with things so its not surprising that he got enamored with the Exis. They were arty, new, and offered a fresh POV for him to see the world. Anyone would be intrigued by such a friends group. The fact that they were happy to be dominated by John and enjoyed Stuart (especially since Stu and Astrid hit it off!) probably makes it inevitable that someone would end up on the outside and that someone was Paul.

1960 John especially would be feeling his adolescent insecurities very hard so he'd naturally want the Exis as under his thumb as he could get them. I wonder if Stuart also enjoyed being controlled that way? I don't actually know how independent he was of John compared to Paul. (Tho no one ever matched Paul in sheer tenaciousness when it came to escaping John's gravity well.)

The pills, alcohol, and sleeplessness would naturally exacerbate all this.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:49 AM Maybe I’m being too judgmental when it comes to Klaus; it’s hard to judge his tone in written form. Maybe he sounded self-deprecating when answering, but I was surprised that 40 years on (at the time), instead of just saying “it’s tantalising to imagine me being part of the Beatles, but nah they were perfect they way they were and I’ve my own life”…he actually still brings up how his bass playing could’ve maybe been better for the band at some point.

To be fair, he also says Beatlemania wouldn’t have happened without Paul (his looks, his professionalism) , and that Klaus himself maybe wouldn’t have had the necessary charisma

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:53 AM Totally agree with this. It was a wild few months; them also being away from home for the first time as well (and in a very strange environment). So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:29 PM We don't know much about him so its hard not to give him side eye sometimes lol. Ultimately Klaus seems grateful for what the Beatles did for him and how he got to have a place in history thanks to them. I wouldn't necessarily label him negatively since he seems content with his lot and has gotten to make a lot of great art over the years. He likes his niche.

Otoh its still really weird that he's apparently still maintaining a delusion about being a potential Beatle. IMO it once again says more about his relationship with Paul than anything else. Paul is the bedrock of the band and without him, there are no Beatles. Lots of people resent him for this, even other Beatles. I would bet Klaus, like many, is pulled in by John's charisma, values George as a friend, and resents/resented the fact that he couldn't get closer to them because Paul filled that space. "If I was in his place then I could be with George and John all the time and we'd be even better friends. What's so special about Paul's bass playing anyway? I'm just as good." That's the kind of resentment that sticks with you when you have famous friends i guess.

But it also misses the point and the importance of Paul: Paul's bass playing was creative and innovative. He brought new sounds into the band. He also had the energy to get them over their creative humps to deliver material for new records and consistently hit their deadlines. Paul wasn't just "the bassplayer." He was John's everything, the one who delivered results, and the one who made the records work for the Beatles. If Klaus was really as good as he thinks he is then John would have made him a fixture during the solo years. But John didn't do that because Klaus is no match for Paul's ability to consistently deliver results.

I suspect Klaus knows this or he wouldn't admit to Paul's success like that. But its probably very hard to be close to the Beatles because you would naturally want a piece of it.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 12:32 PM

So many outsiders have described the bond they had before Hamburg, how Paul seemed to make John come alive etc; they already had a solid foundation. I don’t think anyone could’ve muscled in there permanently

An extremely vital point and probably the ultimate root of the resentment surrounding Paul during that time (or any other time). No matter what they did or where they took him, John still wanted to return to Paul.

There is something special and unique about Paul that had John loving him deeply and to the exclusion of others. Even back then.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 2:00 PM I'd just like to add that re: drugs, Paul was wary of the Prellies and usually stuck to one a night, where John was eating them like candy Paul had already shown reticence towards drugs when he refused to partake of chewing the benzedrine cartridges inside nasal sprays back in Liverpool, so that's another aspect of the "Paul's not as cool and worldly as the rest of us" ganging up on him

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM And then that of course carried over to Paul not wanting to try acid at first

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:04 PM Yeah... so Paul was often on the outside that way too

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:07 PM I wonder if John saw that as Paul keeping a part of himself back; of not totally committing so they could share everything together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:13 PM That's a big part of it. Tune In says John habitually used Prellies to try to get people to talk to him, he used it as a tool to get people to open up. So Paul dragging his heels and only doing it when he felt like it would be infuriating (and enchanting) to John because Paul was refusing to submit to John's direction and control. Paul could skate on the edges of John's gravity well and refused to get closer until he decided to.

It also may be that John was anxious about doing these things without Paul. He wanted Paul to mirror him very early and Paul's refusal to do so fascinated him especially for those moments where Paul did eventually cave and the mirroring turned out fantastic -- it made the victories sweeter. Pete Shotton said John needed a partner in everything he did, even when he was a little kid, so it was a genuine need in him to want someone like Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 3:21 PM Makes me wonder how palpable John's attraction to Paul must have been -- even if he didn't fully realize it in Hamburg yet. I fully believe that there is some watershed moment we don't know about for John realizing how deep his attraction to Paul ran.

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 3:33 PM He said he chose Paul as his partner (in music), but we know it was so much more than that. At some point he realised, ‘this is the one’. If only he’d gotten to write his memoirs…. 😢

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:00 PM I wonder if his attraction scared him a little and that’s why he backed right off in that first Hamburg trip.

He had plenty to distract him.

When Paul was deported, John was left behind. He could easily have stayed and pursued something there and kept near Stuart, but he didnt. He went back to Liverpool. Brooded on it for a while, then pursued Paul to get back with him.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I never thought of the possibility of him staying behind with Stu but you're right! oh wow

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:06 PM I think that’s when he decided Paul was it for him.

He could have looked at picking up his art again, like Stu did, or music in another band. His heart must have decided on music, but music meant Paul.

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:12 PM oh my god!!!! :sobface:

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:13 PM And also the trauma of Paul being deported... Klaus has a drawing of Paul and Pete being shoved into a cop car, I wonder if John was there if it happened like that with Paul and Pete being taken off the street

Like for John that's another loss but instead of Paul abandoning him that's someone taking Paul away from him

And so he goes home later that week.... and he stays shut up in his room for days... and when he emerges he gets George and goes straight to Paul.....

BRrraCKets! — 05/09/2023 4:15 PM He can’t do it without Paul.

Hahaha in a roundabout way, Paul made John choose between him and Stu, and Paul won!

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 4:17 PM After all that mess, John really did have a shot to choose Stuart and do art forever, hang out in Hamburg and never go back. Stuart evaded deportation by living in Astrid's house, John could do the same. But John played a few nights alone and then took all the gear back by himself

and then he chose Paul while he was convalescing in his bedroom....

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 5:10 PM I do think that was definitely part of it… but I don’t think it would’ve been that easy for him to stay had he wanted to… Stu was different because he’d already started establishing himself there outside of the band (and he had Astrid and her family, who couldn’t be expected to take on John as well).

John had no money. I believe he continued playing with other bands only to fulfil contractual obligations (?). And he said he was depressed after Hamburg, thinking this was maybe as far as music could take them… to seedy bars in a red light district. Coming back to Liverpool, I wonder what his thought process and state of relationship with Paul was like.

Now in 1961, when he again faces a crisis regarding continuing with music, he obviously chooses Paul…even without the music. Even though they were making decent-ish money in Liverpool by then, John was fed up and wanted to run away (at least for a bit).

I know people say he didn’t take Cyn to Paris because she was busy with school and unmarried couples didn’t really travel together, but I think it was more than that. He’d decided it was going to be him and Paul… in any potential endeavour, even if it wasn’t a band. That carries on through to their later ideas of writing a play, a musical together; and just always writing together

That said, I don’t think he actually wanted to stay in Hamburg

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 5:59 PM Yeah, John stayed in Hamburg for the contractual stuff. Considering its a port town it would have been easy for him to stay IMO but who knows. I think it does indicate that staying with Stuart didn't cross his mind; if it had and if John had really wanted it, he could have found a way. The fact that he didn't and instinctively went home (to the place where Paul had been forced to go) indicates just how strong Paul's hold on him was, despite John not knowing what he was going to do next.

The depression is just John's pattern I think. He had tall highs and deep lows. John coming back from Hamburg reminds me of reading descriptions of his return home from their tours and how inaccessible he was to Cynthia and Julian because of his profound depression. Hamburg was absolutely similar -- women, booze, pep pills to keep them awake and then it ended traumatically leaving John in a very bleak place. The physical low from coming off all those prellies would be crazy and John was addicted. He may have been going through detox which would destabilize his mental scape. The same thing happened with the tours and the amount of drugs they were doing, particularly the coke, which meant that John crashed after each tour because he stopped inhaling all those drugs.

We can only speculate about his thought process post-Hamburg but John repeated patterns, that was his entire thing. I think looking at the Dakota years could tell us a lot, albeit with the caveat that John hadn't done any "splitting" regarding Paul yet. He probably felt bleak, wondering if there was a point in continuing. He knew there was more pain ahead of him if he continued with the Beatles. John knew they were good and probably realized they were better than their peers but maybe he realized that he might have bungled things with Paul. He's watching the wheels.... Then he ran into George on the street iirc and that's when things solidified for him: he needed music and that meant he needed Paul.

So he takes George with him because he needs the support and doesn't want to appear vulnerable in front of someone he probably knows he wasn't kind to. And Paul holds him at arms length for a while but John is persistent and finally tells Paul that he's not going to settle for being half time anymore, Paul needs to commit to him.

When it comes to Paris and such: Paul, for John, represents renewal and possibility. He renewed after Hamburg in 1960 and sought out Paul for it. He renewed in 1961 and they went on their honeymoon in Paris. In 1980, John was preparing to record with Paul and was actively leaving Yoko.

John's mental aesthetic regarding Paul always contained admiration (and sometimes resentment) for Paul's endless energy and his ability to createcreatecreate. That's an energy that John relied on. He used it emotionally as well as musically.

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 7:57 PM and on the flip side we have John unfairly blaming Paul for John's inability to write by accusing Paul of bouncing along and writing like a fiend without thinking about how John was feeling, in the "I was going through murder" period

...and then, much later, John hears "Coming Up" on the radio and something long dormant sparks up inside him

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:33 PM I'm soo late to this conversation but I love it! I wanna add my favourite Hamburg era tidbit that's hidden away in a footnote in Tune In, because I think it's really interesting to compare the aftermath of the 1960 first Hamburg trip with the 1961 Hamburg trip. TL;DR Paris was not the only time John and Paul ran away holidayed together in 1961

we all know John and Paul went to visit Betty and Mike in Caversham in April 1960, but Paul has stated multiple times that they took two trips to visit his cousin, the second one travelling down to Ryde on the Isle of Wight. But when did they take this trip? It's referenced in MYFN but no timeframe is given.

Mark Lewisohn proposes that the only obvious window is July 1961, directly after they arrived home from Hamburg - they had nine days off before they were back onstage in Liverpool on July 13. You'd think they would have spent this time kicking back at home after three months away, catching up w/ family and friends.......... but if that were the case, Lewisohn says, why didn't they attend Ringo's massive 21st birthday bash on July 8th?? All the biggest bands in Liverpool were invited, but the Beatles were conspicuously absent.

so if Lewisohn's hunch is correct and they swanned off to Ryde right after they just dragged their exhausted asses back from Hamburg, the implications of that are 👀 !!! bc that means Paul's behaviour towards John was sooo markedly different compared to the previous trip. Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

especially considering that Paul's tension with Stuart was arguably at an all-time high in 1961 -- they had their fight near the end of that trip, Dot and Cynthia came to visit but John & Cyn actually spent more time with Astrid & Stuart than with Paul..... I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:46 PM Veggie I love this connection. you're brilliant

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:47 PM get your man Paul!!

interesting that Paul made the first move here

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:48 PM

so if Lewisohn's hunch is correct and they swanned off to Ryde right after they just dragged their exhausted asses back from Hamburg, the implications of that are 👀 !!! bc that means Paul's behaviour towards John was sooo markedly different compared to the previous trip.

feral for this

YES.... after all that fuss in Hamburg they came back and Paul pushed John up against a wall and said "you're coming with me now" and john just went "o-okay"

Paul resigned himself to a shitty factory job in 1960, John had to win Paul back and prove himself to him, the band's future was in limbo..... but HERE, to me it's like 1961 Paul is staking his claim. By immediately taking John on a quick holiday to Ryde, he's actively preventing another post-Hamburg comedown and securing them some 1-on-1 time to re-cement their partnership

yes!!! he learned from 1960, he didn't give John a chance to get down in the dumps! he said "let's go on an adventure John!" and he just took him reminding John that this isn't like last time. in short Paul broke the pattern

I can just so see Paul being like :paulbuthehasagun: oh you like the beach John? you went to the beach with stuart? Come to this picturesque coastal town with me right the fuck now you're gonna love it

the jealousy angle at work here. oh my god

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM as long as they keep moving John can't sink into a funk which may have further implications re: Paul's work ethic

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM aieeee I'm obsessed w/ it

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:51 PM Veggie you're a genius

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:52 PM john's in a depression? let's do something and distract him from it... 1960? on the rocks, worry and frustration. 1961? "dis mine dis MINE"

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM while they seemed to make a lot of progress in Hamburg RE: trading up to better and better clubs, it really stood out to me in Tune In that after their 2nd trip they just returned to the same old in Liverpool, again - same circuit of halls and clubs, no one on their level, no upward momentum until Brian in November. So I love how John and Paul dealt with this by repeatedly skipping out on commitments when they got bored and goin on trips together

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 9:54 PM yeah! they decided it wasn't worth their time so they bolted

and they were right too lmao

they wanted to be together instead of playing the same circuit over and over...

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:56 PM and then Stuart's writing letters like "they quit the band and went to Paris to play together? I don't believe it..."

Paul's like "you'd bETTER BELIEVE IT BUDDY"

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Wasn’t it said that Ticket to Ride was inspired by Ryde?

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:59 PM yes fs, I think Paul restates this in The Lyrics again too? don't have it in front of me, but yes

VeggieRavioli — 05/09/2023 9:58 PM Oh I thought we’d shared that quote here already but no it’s legit

Leggy「little love of mine」 — 05/09/2023 10:00 PM this is the possessive Paul we need

mynamesbetty — 05/09/2023 10:10 PM Paul stomps in like "he's my soulmate, get your own!" and whisks John off on a road trip

Apple_Scruff — 05/09/2023 10:11 PM Stuart literally having his own soulmate Astrid the whole time: confused

Morrigan — 05/09/2023 10:44 PM People have to had seen the special connection between them…John wasn’t going on trips to Ryde or Paris or Caversham with just George

louiselux — 05/10/2023 3:25 AM So fascinating and such great detective work! I wonder too if Paul thought he might be detoxing John, or whether they both had that in mind? Sun, sea, fresh air, no amphetamines etc, just wholesome British beer lol.

louiselux — 05/10/2023 7:06 AM There's just something so innocent about Paul taking him on a seaside holiday, compared to what they had just been doing in Hamburg, it's so sweetly unsophisticated.

I've been to Ryde. The whole of the Isle of Wight, where Ryde is the main town, is just off mainland UK and it feels stuck about 30 years in the past, so Ryde in the early 60s might've felt very old fashioned indeed.

[dollarbin]

Nickel Bin #4:

Cat Stevens' Foreigner Suite

Though I'm surely as guilty of practicing it as the next music blogger, I don't know how to spell pretentious without looking it up.

But The Beatles surely entered every new Spelling Bee hoping pretentious would be the first word they were responsible for. They knew the concept all too well. After all, Yoko and John decided his schlong, and nothing else, was a worthy subject for a 40 minute film.

(No, I'm not gonna show you a clip of the movie here; get your mind out of the gutter; and anyway, the film was only ever shown once and is not available anywhere; so no slow-motion image of Lennon's Johnson for you; Yoko said "the critics wouldn't touch it"; neither will this blog...)

Paul meanwhile routinely praised his own music by posing as a nonexistent journalist named Clint Harrigan. And George was inspired to write Try Some, Buy Some to document "his sudden perception of God amid the temptations of the material world" while living in this house:

And Ringo... well you know The Dollar Bin is shy about criticizing Ringo, even if his website just announced a "LANDMARK PHOTOGRAPHY RETROSPECTIVE HARDCOVER “BEATS & THREADS” CHRONICLING OVER 70 YEARS OF HIS LEGENDARY DRUM KITS AND ERA DEFINING FASHIONS."

There is perhaps just one form of late 60s to mid 70s era rock pretension of which the lads from Liverpool never partook: the side-long song. Arthur Lee's Love introduced the idea of one long song filling an entire side of vinyl on their second record, and everyone, including Lee, instantly recognized that doing so was pretentious nonsense.

(By the way, Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands does not count. Why? A) it's only 11 minutes long and takes up a side on its own only because it is at the end of a double album, b) it's too awesome to criticize in any way, and c) cuz I said so.)

Relax: I love Pink Floyd's Echoes (not to mention The Pentangle's Jack Orion) as much as any reasonable white guy, but you've got to admit there is little one can imagine more pretentious than declaring that your music requires listeners to concentrate for 18-23 minutes without pause because you're a big deal artist sent by the gods who cannot be bothered to meet the needs of radio formatting or real people with real responsibilities.

And that brings us to our first ever discussion of one of the Dollar Bin's greatest oddballs, Cat Stevens. It wasn't pretentious enough for Cat to fill the entire A Side of his career cauterizing 73 album Foreigner with one song; he also insisted on calling it a "suite".

The musical term "suite" has its origins in the 1500's and was central to Baroque era music; the idea of a suite was to assemble serious music together for the purpose of serious dancing. Bach wrote a bunch of them; time signatures were to be rigidly followed; everything was either homophonic (not homophobic, ye hasty reader, homophonic: all acceptable music is queer friendly) or polyphonic or, who am I kidding? I have no idea what a song suite actually is; all I can say that it's a serious piece of serious music; in other words it has nothing to do with Jethro Tull.

What I'm trying to say here is that taking three to seven pop songs, smashing them together (with either total or no elegance) and calling it a "suite" is comparable to me wrapping up last Wednesday's spaghetti in a tortilla, adding canned salsa, and declaring my pathetic lunch a Super Deluxe Burrito. Stephen Stills was of course the master of such pretension; see Suite: Judy Blue Eyes. I'll bet he's tucking into a spaghetti burrito as we speak.

Cat Stevens' Foreigner Suite is, admittedly, another totally pretentious addition to this club. And yet, it features everything we love about the Cat Man: sweet harmonies, dense sonic changes, passionate lyrics and his patented I'm-a-grandpa-who-zipped-up-too-fast-and-got-his-hairy-hacky-sack-caught-in-it vocal stylings. Plus he recorded the song while on tax exile in Jamaica and was appropriately enamored with reggae, so the whole thing is a fitting follow up to Paul Simon's Mother and Child Reunion.

My wife bought this record early in our relationship at a Salvation Army without my pretentious approval. I knew Cat Stevens. My long ago friend Thom Moore of Moore Brothers fame had shown us Harold & Maude and I'd been listening to Tea for The Tillerman since middle school.

(My buddy Eric and I once spent all of a sleepover listening to the title track on repeat; when we finally went to bed we turned it down as low as it could go while still remaining audible; therefore we woke up every other minute and a half when everyone belted out HAPPY DAY!; we had no access to, or interest in, drugs, so that was our idea of trippin').

But I'd decided early on that everything after Mona Bone Jakon (now that's a record that deserves a big deal Dollar Bin treatment; it's the overlooked third member of holy, end-of-the-60's, white people music trinity alongside Five Leaves Left and Astral Weeks) was a compromise, and that everything after Teaser and the Firecat was a worthy soundtrack for that film about Lennon's one-eyed monster.

So I turned my pretentious nose up at my lady friend's thrift store find, resumed listening to Daydream Nation, and thereby missed out on Foreigner Suite for the rest of the 90's.

But then we had a kid in 02 it was time to a) rewrite my pretentious first/last novel, b) drink more/cheaper beer, and c) listen to the records in my collection I had previously ignored, all in an effort to prove to myself that I was not simply a middle aged, balding dadman forever more. And that brought me to Foreigner Suite.

Let's listen.

Where to start? I count the soulful main theme (There are no words...) which opens the piece briefly and then comes back for an extended run at the end, then there's another two or three unique melody sections as well as the funk in the middle, and then the whole thing soars away with sweet piano doodling and a chorus that I can't begin to get my head around: heaven, Cat sings, must have programmed you. Is he singing to a 60's era, Warehouse-sized IBM machine? Or to Neil's new robot? Is he inventing the internet years before Al Gore did?

I love this song. I'd play it loud on weekends in our first real home whenever my wife was at work. My infant daughter spent the 8 minutes unpacking all her toys one by one, tasting each of them. And I'd sit on the floor beside her, tasting them too. Then she'd don every costume jewelry necklace in the house and crawl about, dragging bling wherever she went. And I'd sing along with Cat and crawl along after her, marvelling. After all, Heaven had programmed her.

And when she graduates from college this May I'll likely have Cat Stevens in my head:

When you're talking to me And the whirling wind turns to song Why it sets my soul free

Here's to Cat. He wound up donating all the money he saved on his taxes while in Jamaica to UNESCO.

More importantly, here's to Martin Luther King. Today's his day. His words and voice are currently knocking the wind out of my ninth grade students in all the right ways.

And, most importantly, here's to all the unpretentious people who spent today in service to others.

Cheers.

[mywifeleftme]

45: Félix Leclerc // ...et sa Guitare No. 3

Félix Leclerc et sa Guitare No. 3 Félix Leclerc 1959, Epic

Félix Leclerc was an iconic figure in Québec for the better part of four decades. Like a lot of folky, “regional” Québécois artists of the era he was a giant in his home province but received relatively little notice out of the francosphere. Among French artists, he is most comparable to a Georges Brassens. Among North Americans, while neither comparison is perfect, he is probably closer to a Woody Guthrie than a Pete Seeger, more noted for his original songs than as an interpreter of an existing folk tradition. He composed prolifically, not only as a songwriter but also as a poet, novelist, and playwright, and his work contributed significantly to a culture that was in the process of defining itself in opposition to both France and English Canada. Like Guthrie he was a leftist, aligned with the left-wing of the Québec separatist movement, and his frequently aphoristic prose leaves little doubt as to his opinions about the government in Ottawa and cultural critics who dismiss art oriented towards the working class.

Even as a young man, Leclerc had a gusty, grandfatherly voice—he was probably capable of delivering a really satisfying “ho ho ho” sort of a laugh. It’s easy to imagine him sitting on a stone bridge in a small village called Sainte-Hyacinthe-sur-les-Quatorze-Montagnes-des-Neiges or something, a troubadour narrating day-to-day life as he sees it. Seldom sexy but often soulful in an earthy sort of way, he had a feathered touch as a vocalist, crooning and sighing in the French chanson tradition.

He began recording in the 1950s, when singles were the principal outlet for pop musicians, so his LP discography is a mess of quickie compilations with a lot of overlap. On some early recordings, like his uncharacteristically cool debut “Le Train du Nord,” his producers made some primitive attempts to replicate the innovative delay effects being popularized by Les Paul, but within a few years he’d settled into the simple arrangements he’d rely on for the rest of his career: vocals and acoustic guitar out front, often supported by accordion, occasionally by clarinet or strings.

The disc I’ve got here is 1959’s Félix Leclerc et sa Guitare No. 3—confusingly, both …et sa Guitare No. 1 and No. 3 are typically listed as studio albums, whereas No. 2 is evidently a compilation. Comme mon français est exécrable, I asked francophone correspondent, friend-of-the-podcast and Leclerc fan Mea to give me a general idea of his affect (the earlier stone bridge description is hers). She described a stolid everyman, given to penning anecdotal fables with a clear moral in a tradition not far removed from the English murder ballad. He’s more matter-of-fact than theatrical, but not without wit (sample lyric: “If you think I love you, you’re stupid as a pigeon… but if you left, I would die”).

While many Français de France (French-from-France) people feel a passionate cultural pride in someone like world-historic-sex-pervert/horny ashtray Serge Gainsbourg, it makes sense that someone with Leclerc’s specific characteristics, in his particular time and place, could come to embody something more fundamental to the people of Québec. On the cover of …et sa Guitare No. 3 he has the grin of a man being held at gunpoint, but from about 1960 onward he looks endearingly like someone who either does not know or does not give a shit that he is being photographed.

Squinting, rumpled, hair matted like he just woke up on a beach, old man Leclerc is not looking to impress, and for the most part the wider world failed to look past his apparent provincialism to see the major talent he was. But this is precisely what makes a folk hero: Félix Leclerc was for Québec and, in his time, Québec was for him alone.

45/365

[good-to-drive]

I'm imagining they were all given a Rubik's Cube as a present/joke, and left to fiddle with it during a press conference.

PAUL:

Paul is immediately worried he's the only one who doesn't know how to solve it. He surreptitiously glances at the others, sees that none of them know what to do either, and calms down considerably.

He'll just pretend to try for a bit. Move a side here, a side there. Pause to stare at it in contemplation. Politely put it down and ignore it when he's asked a question.

That night he meticulously takes the cube apart with a screwdriver and puts it back together solved.

He casually mentions the next day that he solved it, but doesn't make a big deal out of it. He's relieved no one seems to care.

Decades later, he admits he took it apart. He makes it such a fun story. His fans are split on whether this is cute and silly like he seems to think, or if it's proof that this man so often stereotyped as cute and silly is actually savvy and clever and complex.

They also lament bitterly that he's so hated for this cute, clever story. That's how Paul is treated in this society.

Everyone else hears the story and thinks, "Huh, that's kinda weird that he did that," and never thinks about it ever again.

GEORGE:

Immediately obsessed.

The entire world disappears. It's just George and The Cube.

He can't put it down, but he also can't solve it. He tries a million strategies, none of them work.

He starts taking notes on what he has and hasn't tried, comparing various solutions, reading everything about group theory and manual and computer cubing methods he can get his hands on.

It's been several weeks now. He's shirking all of his other responsibilities, neglecting his loved ones. His family is worried about him. They don't know it's The Cube that's got him, he doesn't have time to explain.

Finally, he thinks he's developed an original algorithm to find optimal solutions. He tests it a few dozen times. It works.

He thinks, "That was fun, I guess," and puts the cube away and forgets about it forever.

Sometime after his death, the cube and the solution are discovered. It's framed as an expression of his fascination with unanswered questions, how an uncontrolled instinct to learn new things shaped so much of his life. It's a metaphor, really, and it's a very interesting and revealing story.

It's a guy solving a Rubik's Cube.

The story has no legs.

JOHN:

He tries for about 30 seconds before getting bored. He puts the cube down. He wants to talk to Paul, but Paul is busy pretending to solve it. No one is asking him anything. This is boring.

He takes out a pen and starts doodling little faces on the squares to pass the time. He forgets the cube when he leaves.

Years later, the cube is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. It has become a symbol of his wacky creativity and disdain for the rules, of an unpredictable mind and a childlike imagination.

People say it's the sign of a man who's only choice when faced with an unsolvable problem is to turn it into art.

They argue about whether any of the faces are supposed to be Paul (and you're fucking stupid if you don't think they all are, god.)

People also rage against the cube and the cult of personality around it. This same childish disdain for the rules caused problems for everyone around him, they insist. Those mean little caricatures of Paul are so petty, and actually, they don't look like him at all. John was obsessed with him, god.

It garners far more attention than Paul's cube even though Paul's cube is actually solved.

RINGO:

Immediately decides he can't solve it.

No, that looks really hard, and he's not the smart one, he's The Drummer. He plays it off with a self-deprecating joke.

He absentmindedly turns a couple of sides, just for something to do. Oh, if he turns this piece like that, and this one like that... and then if he....and then...

Shit. He solved it. He solved it.

How did that even happen?

Is he some kind of savant?

Are people going to expect him to be some kind of savant now?

This is so cool, but it also kinda sucks.... He doesn't even know how he solved it, he definitely doesn't know if he can do it again. Maybe he should mess it up. Choose to remain The Drummer, the dopey guy, to keep his newfound brilliance a secret to escape the expectations and closer examination that come with that kind of attention. Yes, he'll mess it up, that's the only thing to do--

Oh, wait, there's five other sides. It's not solved anyway.

Never mind, then.

Me and my brothers used to play this game where we'd make up how such and such a person would solve a Rubik's Cube (e.g. Alexander the Great would solve a Rubik's Cube by peeling off all the stickers so the whole thing is one color and that means he won, Stalin would solve a Rubik's Cube by having the cube shoved up Ernő Rubik's ass until he agrees to publicly declare that Stalin is the best Rubik's Cube solver ever in history) and I'd like to do a post like this for The Beatles but I suspect it would exclusively appeal to me and my brothers

[beatles-slash-fiction]

Could you do Paul confessing his feelings for George? Idk I’m a simple person lol

Paul nearly regrets making the decision to leave the warmth of the party in the flat to come out onto the balcony. The cold air hits him and it practically feels like arctic wind compared to the environment he’s just come from.

But George is out here alone having a cigarette, and that’s motivation enough to tempt Paul out of the warmth.

“I’ve barely seen you all night,” Paul says with a grin, shuffling as close to George as he dares and leaning against the railings. “Thought I’d better come and wish you a happy birthday.”

“Thanks.” George smiles at him, eyes sparkling in the dim light. “Twenty-one at last. I finally feel like one of the big boys.”

He really does look beautiful tonight. He looks beautiful every night, but tonight he looks so carefree and relaxed that his happiness seems to make him radiate beauty even more.

“You’re not wearing a coat,” Paul says, only just realising this.

He immediately pulls off his own coat and wraps it round George’s shoulders, despite the younger man’s protests.

“I’m not your baby brother anymore,” George laughs playfully.

“No,” Paul replies. “You’re not. You haven’t been for a while.” His heart is pounding in his chest. “Can I give you your present now?”

George blinks in confusion and gestures at the watch he’s wearing. “You already gave it to me. It’s lovely, thank you.”

“I have something else for you,” Paul admits, and he knows he has to do this quickly before he chickens out.

He shifts a little closer to George. He’s thought about this moment for such a long time. He definitely doesn’t feel cold now as he closes his eyes and leans forward slowly to brush their lips together.

It lasts only a few seconds, but Paul feels like he’s flying. George’s lips are so warm, and when Paul pulls away the younger man looks beautifully flushed.

“Just like when you gave me my very first kiss when I was fifteen,” George says almost shyly.

“Yeah.” Paul wraps an arm around George’s waist. “But now I wanna be the one who gives you your last kiss one day too.”

George’s smile shows off his little pointy teeth, and then he’s leaning in for another kiss, so Paul considers that a success.

They kiss under the stars with the thump of music in the background, and Paul isn’t quite sure if he’ll be able to top this for George’s birthday next year.

[9worldstales]

MCU The Avengers - How did the fandom came to believe Loki was tortured by Thanos? (aka when God, Saint Paul and Dante seem to say the same thing)

Everyone has probably heard how there are people who say that, after falling into the Void at the end of “Thor”, Loki was tortured by Thanos and then sent to Earth. Of course every time this story comes up there’s a debate because this is not explicitly shown and some say it’s just a theory (word of Dante), some say someone involved with the work said so (word of Saint Paul) and some says the creators, be it Marvel or Joss Whedon or another director/scriptwriter said so (word of God).

Well, the truth is a collective chat about the three.

But first...

SOURCES MENTIONED:

Movies: “The Avengers” (2012), “Guardians of the Galaxy” (2014), “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2″ (2017), “Avengers: Infinity War”

Series: “Loki” (2021)

Comics: None mentioned

Direct-to-video animated film: None mentioned

Motion comics: None mentioned

Books: “The art of The Avengers” (2012)

Novels: “Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers” (2015)

Webs: The official Marvel web

Others: Interview: “‘Thor: The Dark World’: Tom Hiddleston on boom times for evildoers”, Interview: “Tom Hiddleston - live on stage Q&A: Popcorn Tax.i October 8, 2013, Event Cinemas George Street, Sydney”, Interview: “Tom Hiddleston THE AVENGERS Set Visit Interview”, Interview: “Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again”, Interview: ‘Avengers: Infinity War’ director explains why a major death had to happen so early in the movie, Script: “The Avengers”, Interview: Secrets Revealed in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary

Let’s start with...

WORD OF DANTE (aka fancanons)

Undoubtedly fans noticed some suspicious things in Loki which has brought them to draw certain conclusions.

1) At the end of “Thor”, when he control Selvig, his face seems to be bruised, as if he had been beaten. It’s easy for fans to assume if he seems to be beaten maybe... well, he was?

2) When he arrives, in “The Avengers”, in some scenes he seems unsteady on his feet and in poor shape as if he’d been beaten and, in one scene, he seems unable to stand straight. Same as above, Loki will prove through the movie he’s very resistant. If something made him unsteady on his feet... well, this can mean someone beaten him.

3) The Other threatens him and keeps him under surveillance, as if he’s controlling him somehow, both during the movie and in a deleted scene, which seems to imply Loki is working under coercion more than willingly.

THE OTHER: You will have your war, Asgardian. If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can’t find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain. [The Avengers]

4) Some wondered if Loki could have ended up being possessed as well by the sceptre as the sceptre could control minds.

5) Some noticed how Loki’s eyes appear as blue in “The Avengers”, a characteristic of the possessed guys, while in “Thor” they seem to be green was a hint Loki was possessed, same as Selvig and Barton.

6) Some wondered if Thanos might have tortured him to force him to cooperate as Thanos is known for having tortured people working under him. We saw him torturing Nebula in both “Avengers: Infinity War” and “Avengers: Endgame” and we also have those bits:

Gamora: He’s not my father. When Thanos took my home world, he killed my parents in front of me. He tortured me, turned me into a weapon. [Guardians of the Galaxy]

Nebula: You were the one who wanted to win. And I just wanted a sister! You were all I had. But you were the one who needed to win. Thanos pulled my eye from my head… and my brain from my skull… and my arm from my body… because of you. [Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2]

Gamora: All my life, I dreamed of a day... a moment when you would get what you deserved. And I was always so disappointed. But now... you kill and torture... and you call it mercy. The universe has judged you. You asked it for a prize, and it told you no. You failed. And do you wanna know why? Because you love nothing. No one. [Avengers: Infinity War]

7) Others assumed that, if Thanos didn’t do it personally, another of his children could have done it for him. We saw Ebony Maw torturing Stange in order to get the stone for Thanos.

Ebony Maw: You’ll only wish you were dead. [Avengers: Infinity War]

8) Since Thanos was willing to kill Rohan should he fail to bring back to him the orb, Thanos would have killed Loki if he hadn’t brought back the Tesseract so Loki was working for him under coercion.

Thanos: I shall honour our agreement, Kree. If you bring me the Orb. But return to me again empty-handed... ...and I will bathe the stairways in your blood. [Guardians of the Galaxy]

Ebony Maw: In all the time I’ve served Thanos, I’ve never failed him. If I were to reach our rendezvous on Titan with the Time Stone still attached to your vaguely irritating person, there would be... judgement. [Avengers: Infinity War]

9) Loki’s willing cooperation wasn’t needed if Thanos had the feeling Loki could do it. He had blackmailed Gamora into giving him the location of the soul stone and he had killed Tivan to get the reality stone.

World of Dante is, as usual, very charming but if not supported by anything else it can’t ascend to canon. This doesn’t mean it’s false unless Word of God ends up stating the opposite, but this doesn’t mean it’s true either. Just possible but unproved.

So is there someone else that’s a little stronger than fan theories?

Enter...

WORD OF SAINT PAUL (aka what Tom Hiddleston says)

For start that he has blue eyes and, from the way he speak, apparently he was never made wear green eye contacts.

Loki is a sexy villain, but that’s not part of his ambition, is it? He doesn’t seem to be interested in love or sex but he has this sexuality about him, maybe it’s his lust for power. What do you think of Loki as a sexy beast? [Laughs] That’s the first time anyone has ever used that phrase about Loki. It’s fascinating isn’t it? I don’t know because it’s not a part of the conscious construction. I take relish in playing him. I think there’s a physical self-possession about him, a self-acceptance. Of course I’ve been very exacting about his physicality. You know, I was born with very blonde, curly hair, and a mixture of Scottish and English genes, and my complexion is very ruddy and healthy. In making him with this raven black hair and blanching my face of all colour, it changes my features. Suddenly my blue eyes look a lot bluer, which lends a severity to my face. And even my own smile has a distorted menace to it. Whatever comes through me naturally is distorted. It’s almost like a filter on a light. [‘Thor: The Dark World’: Tom Hiddleston on boom times for evildoers]

This disproves Fan theory point number 5. You might have noticed though that the theory about Loki being possessed by the sceptre is point 4. You’ll see later why I hadn’t placed those two points together.

And now let’s see what he has to say about what happened between “Thor” and “The Avengers.

In your opinion, what happen to Loki when he fell in to the void? Like, what did he experienced? HIDDLESTON: “You mean at the end of Thor?” “Yeah.” HIDDLESTON: “I think he went like with everything else to… Joss Whedon and I discussed it, to a sort of… hum… as… It was like the worst place imaginable. I think, he went to sort of all of the darkest recesses of the Universe, you know. I’m sure he had a brush with… with... with... several brushes with death. I think he ran into the shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms. I think he had to rely on his wits to protect himself. Hum… It was really, really, really unpleasant, I think. Umm… and all I have to, you know, I don’t have any frame of reference for that, really, except for imagining what it might be like to be… I don’t know, to be kidnapped by sort of a terrorist cell or something. And have to survive very very frightening and precarious existence. But whatever it was, it was important when Loki came back for the Avengers. Whatever compassion he had left, was absolutely kind a shrivelled to a minimum. Because of the experience he had. Harrowing, I think, and scarring for life. In a way that Odin and Thor, and Frigga find very, very difficult to understand. It’s a good question. Happy Birthday.” [Tom Hiddleston - live on stage Q&A: Popcorn Tax.i October 8, 2013, Event Cinemas George Street, Sydney]

How different is Loki in this film when compared to how he is in Thor? I think that he comes into his own power at the end of Thor. Is he just very angry and bitter in this film? HIDDLESTON: Well, what can I say here? I swear to you that in that building over there, there are sniper rifles. [laughs] I think that what was interesting about the journey of Loki in Thor is that he went from second string and damaged prints to being the God of mischief and God of evil. I think somewhere between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has been to the Marvel equivalent of the 7th circle of hell. At the end of Thor you see him let go. He lets go of the spear, he lets go of Asgard, and he lets go of the need of his brother and father’s affection and approval. He has bigger plans now. [Tom Hiddleston THE AVENGERS Set Visit Interview]

HIDDLESTON: “At the end of Thor, Loki lets go of that spear and falls into a wormhole,” Hiddleston said. “And the question in the audience’s mind, one hopes, is what happens to Loki in that moment? And in the time between the end of Thor and the beginning of The Avengers, Loki has explored the shadowy highways and byways of the universe – and he’s met some terrible, terrible people and probably has some awful experiences, which he has survived and overcome. So by the time he arrives in The Avengers, he knows the extents of his power – and he’s unafraid to use it. And more importantly, he’s unafraid to enjoy it.” [The Art of The Avengers]

There’s actually more but I think I’ll stop here.

Overall Tom Hiddleston seems to be a big supporter of something terrible happening to Loki, something equivalent to being ‘to the Marvel equivalent of the 7th circle of hell’* evidently at the hands of someone, the ‘shadiest characters you can find in the Nine Realms’, ‘some terrible, terrible people’.

Basically he says ‘I don’t have any frame of reference for that, really, except for imagining what it might be like to be… I don’t know, to be kidnapped by sort of a terrorist cell or something. And have to survive very very frightening and precarious existence.’

[*7th circle of hell: For who’s curious the 7th circle of hell in Dante Alighieri’s Divina Commedia is where are punished those who had committed violence against others and against themselves (suicides). Loki committed both sins. For Dante people who committed violence against people is immersed in a river of boiling blood with centaurs shooting arrows at those who try to escape while suicides are transformed into bushes and trees, gnarled and thorny, fed upon by the Harpies for all time. Likely that’s not what was done to him but anyway that’s not a nice place to be.]

Yes, Tom Hiddleston never said it was Thanos and his men who ‘kidnapped Loki and put him through the equivalent of the 7th circle of hell’. He’s very vague on this but we now Tom Hiddleston is careful not to give information which could constitute spoilers.

He also never mentions Loki being mind controlled as far as I know.

So we need an even higher source.

We need...

WORD OF GOD, or, in this case the WORD OF GODS, plural, because in the Marvel world there’s plenty of people who can claim authorship for the stories of those characters.

Whedon avoided speculating about his future plans, claiming he had too much on his plate to think about what will come next, but he did reveal that he’s bothered by a bit of unresolved backstory for Loki. At the end of Thor, Loki was emotional conflicted, but at the beginning of Avengers, he’s a demented villain, with no qualms about unleashing alien hell on Earth. Asked about how happened in between, Whedon said: “Well, I can’t tell you exactly what went on because it’s this dark, dark secret that I didn’t make up yet. But, the other day, I had trouble with that because he had this very passionate Shakespearean tragedy thing going on in Thor and then I needed a villain who’s not only capable, but ready and willing and anxious to take on all these heroes. For me, he just basically went on some horrible walkabout… That was pretty much as far as I got.” [Joss Whedon told Comic-Con the question he doesn’t want us to ask ever again]

God confirms what Tom Hiddleston said, Loki went through something terrible... but he had no idea what because he still had to work on it. He didn’t want to establish what. But, as I said, Marvel has plenty of Gods willing to talk.

After Loki fell in the wormhole... where did he fell?

Arriving at the Sanctuary through a wormhole caused by the Bifrost, Loki met the Other, ruler of the ancient race of extraterrestrials the Chitauri, and Thanos. Offering the God of Mischief dominion over his brother’s favorite realm Earth, Thanos requested the Tesseract in return. Gifted with a Sceptre that acted as a mind control device, Loki would be able to influence others. Unbeknownst to him, the Sceptre was also influencing him, fueling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth. [MARVERL official web]

So no, after falling into the wormhole Loki didn’t go on a touristic trip through the universe, met someone bad unrelated to Thanos, changed and then met up with Thanos.

He straight out ended up at the Sanctuary and met with the Other who worked for Thanos.

Yes, they don’t say he got tortured in this bit but they confirm the sceptre was influencing him, ‘fueling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth’.

There’s some more that comes from Joe Russo and Stephen McFeely.

If you’ve watched every movie in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, you shouldn’t have been too surprised Thanos killed Loki. His death has been a long time coming since 2012’s “Avengers.” You may not recall, but it was Loki’s job in “Avengers” to secure the Tesseract and deliver it to Thanos. Loki never made good on that promise. It was only a matter of time before Thanos came after him to collect. Co-director Joe Russo says Thanos ultimately murders Loki “for disobedience.” “Remember, he [Thanos] had a relationship with Loki, even if it was off-screen where he entrusted him with a duty in ‘Avengers 1’ and Loki failed,” pointed out “Infinity War” screenwriter Stephen McFeely. “He’s [Thanos] making him [Loki] pay,” added Joe Russo. “Thanos has a long memory,” McFeely concluded. [‘Avengers: Infinity War’ director explains why a major death had to happen so early in the movie]

And then... then there’s something that’s even above World of God.

So finally we have...

CANON, aka what the movies say, and they say the weirdest canon lines in this regard if I can say so.

Thanos: [Walks over and drops Loki’s body in front of Thor.] No resurrections this time. [Avengers: Infinity War]

Loki: Is that the only reason you brought us here? To kill us? I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve been killed, so go ahead. Do your worst. [Loki Ep 4]

How all this translates? (aka Word of Dante comes back because God and Saint Paul are just too obscure and canon is no better)

If Loki after falling into the wormhole ended up straight to the Sanctuary, the ones who played the part of the terrorists and lead him to an experience similar to ending in the 7th circle of hell where he had many brushes with death where either Thanos or his men.

Do your pick if the Other took care of it personally, if Thanos did the job or if he let the pleasure to Ebony Maw and what they did to him, if they forced him to fight with others same as Gamora and Nebula where forced to do, with the loser also losing a body part or if they just beat him.

The fact that Loki, in the “Loki” series say he has been killed so many times he lost count and that Thanos in “Avengers: Infinity War” says there will be no resurrection this time seem to be connected.

That Loki as far as we know only attempted suicide by letting himself fall in a wormhole once, and Thanos couldn’t know Loki was given up for dead in Svartalfheim so the idea that Loki was killed many time and that Thanos know he had been resurrected should be connected.

How? That’s beyong my understanding as, as far as I know, no one in Thanos’ group has resurrecting powers. Can the mind stone do it? This would open up another theory.

As for the sceptre controlling him ‘fuelling his hatred over his brother Thor and the inhabitants of Earth’ what does that mean?

That he’s clearly not completely brainwashed as Selvig and Hawkeye.

So which is his level of brainwashing?

Very likely it’s at the same level as the one of the Avengers when they are in the same room and start arguing and the discussion degenerates to the point they seemed about to go at each other while the gem in the sceptre starts to glow, which is something both the script and the novelization reference...

[As the “team” argues, they don’t realize the BLUE GEM on Loki’s sceptre is glowing brightly.] [“The Avengers” Script]

None of them noticed when the gem set into Loki’s sceptre started to glow. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

...and that the visual remark, turning the scene upside down as the gem is in full focus.

The novelization describes them as arguing without even knowing exactly what they’re arguing about.

Tony and Cap squared off over an argument that they couldn’t remember starting. Tony was still mad about the last thing Cap had said to him... whatever it was. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

We also see Bruce picking up the sceptre without realizing, something that’s referenced both by the script and the novel.

BANNER: You wanna know my secret, Agent Romanoff? You wanna know how I stay calm? [BLACK WIDOW and Fury have their hands down to grab their guns.] STEVE: Doctor Banner... put down the sceptre. [BANNER LOOKS DOWN AND IS SHOCKED TO SEE HE’S HOLDING LOKI’S SCEPTRE. The computer beeps. They all turn to it.] [“The Avengers” Script]

“Dr. Banner,” Cap said. “Put down the sceptre.” Bruce looked down. He hadn’t even known he’d picked it up. He looked back up and saw Natasha’s hand on her sidearm. Fury was also ready to draw. The others were drawing back from him as well. Even though he could see what was going on, the hostility in the air was still tick enough that Bruce didn’t know wherever he could back everyone down... or wherever he could back himself down. He could feel the tension rising inside him. He could feel the monster trying to get loose. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

The implication is that the sceptre is influencing them, pulling out their worst feelings and competitively and whatever which matches with what it did with Loki, it fuelled his hate.

It’s interesting how, when Loki arrives on Earth, the gem is glowing...

Also, the stranger held a kind of spear in his right hand. Set into its head, a gem glowed the same icy blue as the energy that had spilled from the Tesseract. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

...and he also looks at the sceptre as if he hadn’t realized having it in his hand.

“Sir,” Fury called as armoured S.H.I.E.L.D. agents closed nearer, “Please put down the spear.” The man looked at the sceptre as if he had only just noticed he had it. Then, slowly, he looked back up at Fury, and a vicious smile spread across his face. [“Marvel Cinematic Universe Phase One: The Avengers”]

It’s worth to mention though, in that scene in which the Avengers argue, none of the Avengers has his eyes turning blue, although they weren’t themselves any longer.

So, it’s possible this is the distinction, Clint and Selvig have completely lost their will and are subjugated to Loki’s will, and as a result they’ve the blue eyes, Loki and the Avengers instead only had their mind warped by increasing exponentially their negative feelings to the point they might have started losing focus of the situation and only operate on negative feelings... if that’s make sense. They’re still themselves but their perception is warped so they’re acting in a way that’s not normal for them.

On another note it seems that in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary he said that

Hawkeye’s blue “possessed eyes” were added in post very late in the game, to make it more obvious that he and Eric Selvig were under Loki’s influence. [Secrets Revealed in Joss Whedon’s Avengers DVD Commentary]

This means that originally they weren’t meant to turn blue.

In the novel there’s no mention of it, in the script they’re described just as glowing black and then nothing more.

LOKI: You have heart. [Loki places the tip of the spear against Barton’s chest. Barton’s eye glow black, and he stops resisting. Loki begins controlling other agents around the room. Fury sneak up, grabs the Tesseract, and places it in a briefcase, trying to sneak out.] [“The Avengers” Script]

In the movie instead they turn all black for a moment and then settle on blue.

It’s an unnatural blue though, where Loki’s normal.

But again, this too is a fan explanation. A fan explanation based on canon, but still a fan explanation since God didn’t bother to explain further and at this point I’m afraid he’s not even interested in explaining it since the “Loki” series could have dug on this and instead expressed 0 interest in digging into the past movies.

Sometimes we’ve just to accept that fan theories are all we have and that we can like or dislike them.

And that’s all. Thank you to who remained till the end of this long post!

[littlemisslipbalm]

harry and reader have a pet, but they break up and pet finds reader’s old shirt

Anon request - harry and reader had a pet together, but broke up. The dog finds one of y/n’s forgotten shirts and brings it to Harry (full request here)

This is FLUFF but also ANGST (i guess) oh my god WHAT DID I DO! i am so sorry, but i did a bad thing with this request, the ending is...well it’s kinda happy. i love happy stories but for some reason when i got down a hole, i just keep digging it deeper - i hope i sorta gave you what you wanted tho anon  

Listening: “I Will” and “And I Love Her” by the Beatles

Warnings: break up angst, mentions of dog death (im truly so sorry what is wrong with me - i promise it’s still kinda happy)

--

Harry and you had been broken up for about a month now. You two loved each other very much, but you had reached a breaking point. You weren’t a fan of show business and held a regular job. Harry’s constant travel, touring, and press - everything that came with his fame from his passion - became too much for you. One night, after Harry had missed a date you had made weeks prior due to an interview taking longer than expected, the two of you had it out. By the end of the entire fight, both you and Harry were crying.

The worst part of the break up besides you moving out was that you and Harry had a big old English sheep dog together. Harry loved Paul McCartney and insisted you and him adopt a dog of the same breed as Paul’s dog, Martha. You and he had named yours George to keep with the Beatles theme. When you broke up and moved out, Harry and you had a long conversation about who should keep the dog. Despite Harry’s busy schedule, he pleaded to keep George and eventually you relented, not having the heart to take George away from Harry when you were already leaving him, much to his dismay.  

Harry sat at the little coffee table in his now half empty home. It was far quieter now, since you had left he didn’t bother playing music really. He loved to find new music and show it to you when you were home together, playing it by himself wasn’t as fun. He heard George padding around the house as he reminisced on how you used to rub George’s belly till you were a giggling mess at how cute he was. Harry smiled sadly at the memory. He’s brought out of his reverie when he feels a wet nose nudging his hand resting on his thigh. He looks down to see George at his side with something creamy and linen looking in his mouth.

“Whatcha got there, Bud?” Harry says, first brushing George’s hair out of his eyes and then reaching to take the piece of clothing he had gathered from the dog’s mouth. George let go easily, obviously intending to show Harry it. It was one of your t-shirts. Harry looked at George and gave him another loving pet, he missed you just as much as Harry did. You must have forgotten it when you had rushed out all those days ago. He loved this shirt of yours, a sweet simple cream top with a lemon and an orange on it. It looked gorgeous on you, and Harry was so happy to see it, the only thing that remained of you in this home you once had shared. As much as he wanted to keep it, cherish it and use it to reminisce the times when you ran around your home together in the top, he knew you would be missing it dearly. He knew the right thing was to return it to you. The best thing would be to have a mutual friend return it to you for him, but Harry didn’t care about doing the best thing. He wanted to see you.

He texted a simple, “I have something of yours, are you home?” to you. He felt strange using the word home, when he knew that your home should be with him. When you responded a quick ‘yes’ he grabbed a coat, his keys, slipped on his shoes, and put George on a leash. “Wanna go for a little ride, Georgie?” Harry asked sweetly to the dog. George only wagged his tail in response. The two headed out the door to where you now lived.

-

Harry and George arrived at your new apartment a little ways further into the city, closer to your job, and Harry rang the bell when he reached your door. You sighed at the sound, not ready to face Harry since you had moved out. When he had texted that he was coming over you tried to tidy yourself up. As much as you hated to admit it, you missed Harry so much and you missed the life the two of you had made together even if it was far from perfect.

You opened the door to not only Harry, but your former joint pet, George. When George saw you he jumped up and began to lick kisses onto your face. Your grimace had quickly transformed into an overjoyed grin, open with laughter and slight disgust. “Down, Georgie!” you attempted to say while the dog loved on you. When you managed him down, you bent down to his level and gave him a good face rub and kissed his nose. Then, you turned your eyes to Harry, who had watched you with a sparkle in his eye. Your grin turned to a soft, sad smile. You exchanged somber ‘Hi’s and you let him come inside, against your best judgement.

“George, here, he found your shirt somewhere, brought it to me. Thought you’d want it back…” Harry trailed off once the two of you had sat down on your couch and let George off his leash to roam the place. “Thank you…” you didn’t know what else to say, but the air around you and Harry was painfully tense. “Y/N, listen, I miss you so much and I know it’s not fair for me to say this because you had your reasons, but, would you ever give us another chance? I won’t be this busy for the rest of my life...and, and I still love you, I don’t think there’s anyone else for me out there.”

You were speechless, watching Harry look at you so earnestly, being so vulnerable despite him knowing that things might not change. His jaw was clenched, but he stared straight at you, his large hands soft and open in his lap as he faced you. You noticed how he was rather unshaved and how his shoulders were slumped in more than usual. He looked rough, probably just about how you looked right now as well. You didn’t know what to do, saying that didn’t change how you felt.

“I don’t know, H, uh Harry,” you stuttered with your use of your old nickname for him. “I don’t want you to wait forever on me and I can’t wait on you forever either. I never stopped loving you and I probably never will, but we can’t go on living these sad, lonely lives - miserable because we didn’t work out.” You looked him in the eye now, pleading with your eyes for him to understand what you meant. You wanted him to know that you loved him, you really did, but with where the two of you were in your lives - it wasn’t going to work out.

Harry nodded, somber and sad. He knew you were right, that doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt. He got up after telling you he understood. You walked him and George to the door, giving George one last belly rub at the door. Just as you were about to shut the door, Harry turned with some final words, “You don’t have to wait for the right timing for us, but it’s my choice if I want to wait for that time. So, I will. I’ll wait for you, Y/N, and our right time.”

--

Eight years later

Y/N hadn’t seen Harry in a long time, maybe a few times at mutual friend events, but you were never able to be friends with him, it was too hard. You kept your love for him close to your heart, but you had had relationships since then. None had ever compared to yours and Harry’s, no matter how many lonely nights you had during your two’s relationship, no one else ever came close to that spark, that magic you two shared. You had seen and heard from friends that Harry had dated around in the past eight years as well. Various women of high celebrity status. Everyone of them perfect in their own way, but everyone of them always disappeared from Harry’s life after awhile. No matter who they were, Harry always saw something in them that reminded him of you at first, that’s what got him interested, but then when he realized they were their own person, he had trouble staying committed, being attentive. Whatever they needed from him as a partner, he couldn’t give it to them. Maybe Harry got tired of them, maybe they had real problems, or maybe they simply weren’t you.

-

Then, one night, you heard a heavy knock on your door. It was not too late, but you weren’t expecting anyone so you cautiously went to check what they wanted. You couldn’t suppress the look of shock on your face when you saw Harry standing before you. He was a mess, his clothes and hair were disheveled, his cheeks were painted with tears and his entire face was red. “It’s George...darling, our boy, he-he’s dying. I took him in for his 13 year old check up and they said his heart’s not working the way it used to,” he choked out.

All you could say was ‘Oh my God’ and quickly wrapped your arms around Harry’s shaking mess of a body. The fact that he called George ‘our boy’ when you hadn’t lived with them in eight years fluttered your heart, but had to be pushed to the back of your brain right then. He usually loomed large above you, but now he practically had to rise up to meet your shoulder. “Said we should put him down soon, so that he doesn’t have to suffer anymore,” he continued to ramble into your shoulder through his sobs. His emotions spilled over into you as you guided the pair of you to your couch, far more worn in since the last time Harry had been here. Tears welled into your own eyes thinking about the five years you had spent with Harry and George, raising him from a puppy with Harry. It had been so hard to leave him with Harry and almost never see him, Harry always offered to bring George around, but it was too hard for both of you. It was best that you let George live with Harry and Harry only.

“We’ll figure this out, H,” you whispered as you rubbed Harry’s back. “Where’s George right now?” you asked staying quiet as you tried to comfort Harry as much as possible. He looked up from your shoulder, his tears leaving a wet spot on your t-shirt. The tear tracks on his cheeks only growing more prominent the longer he sat before you. “‘S in the car, couldn’t leave him home alone, but I didn’t want to bring him up in case you didn’t answer.” “Alright,” you nodded, “You wanna go get him, together, and bring him up here? You two can stay here tonight, don’t think any of us should be alone right now.” You tried to smile through the pain, it probably came off as more of a grimace, but Harry’s eyes were so blurred he probably couldn’t tell. He whispered his thanks and the two of you journey out to his car, where George sat. Despite what the doctors had told Harry, George seemed just as happy as he always was, maybe just a little more docile.

“Can’t jump anymore,” Harry mumbled as the three of you walked back into your apartment. “It’s okay, H, I’ll make him a makeshift doggy bed out of extra blankets, feel right at home,” you reassured Harry and then went to the kitchen to put on a pot of tea. This was going to be a long night. You got the kettle situated and then went into a back room for your extra bedding you usually used for guests staying on your couch. Harry helped you to set up George’s bed in your bedroom. It was a silent understanding, since you were using the guest sheets for George, that meant Harry either had to sleep without anything on the couch or in your bed. Since George was going to be in your room, you figured Harry would opt for the real bed.

The kettle whistled and you left Harry to finish making the dog bed. His tears had dried, but he hadn’t spoke much except to answer your questions. The night went on, you drank your tea, cried some more, cuddled with George, and then got ready for bed. “You can sleep in my bed, it’s fine, H,” you said immediately when you saw Harry look questioningly at the uninviting couch. For the first time that night, he gave you a small smile and headed to your backroom. George padded behind him, ever the diligent mate. After closing up your apartment, you followed the other two into your bedroom.

Harry sat slightly stiffly on your bed and George panted happily at you from his big sheet bed on the floor. It felt like old times, yet also completely new at the same time. You climbed onto your side of the bed, Harry still remembering which side you preferred even after eight years. You handed him a glass of water and placed your own on the side table, “Crying...takes a lot out of you. We’ve got a big day ahead of us, gotta take George out to his favorite places tomorrow. Drink up.” Again you witnessed Harry’s soft smile grace his perfect, yet sad face. Your strong facade you had tried to keep up all night for Harry was slipping away the sleepier you got. A single tear started to run down your face and Harry noticed. “Hey,” he said and instinctively scooted closer to you, wrapping his bare arms around your soft shoulders. “S’okay, Darling,” he cooed into your hair. You softly weeped in his arms feeling so confused right now. However, a sense of safety also settled over you with the familiarity of Harry’s sweet nothings in you ear and his strong arms cradling you close to his warm chest.

-

The next morning, you and Harry got ready and took George out to his favorite places, a gourmet dog biscuit shop, the dog wash place, and a little park by the river you and Harry both lived near. It was a beautiful day out. Sun shined and George had so much fun. Harry and you talked about your lives now. Harry’s career had begun to wind down, he’d chosen to stop touring for at least five years a couple months ago. He still wrote music, but he was doing other things and also was trying to live a more peaceful life. You had switched your job a couple years back and had moved up faster at this new one. You worked much less, but were paid more - meaning you had more free time and you didn’t have to worry about money. It seemed both your’s and Harry’s lives had slowed down and gotten to places where you were ready for a relationship as serious as the one you previously had together.

When you two had arrived at the park in the afternoon, you had realized no one had stopped and asked for a picture with Harry all day. Maybe the stars were aligning, albeit in a slightly tragic way. As you sat next to Harry and lovingly watched George prance among the tall grass near the river, you watched Harry’s hand creep itself onto yours. You turned your palm and intertwined your fingers. Then you looked up and met Harry’s gaze immediately. You both smiled, knowing a secret no one else need to know. A love like yours could never go away. It hadn’t left either of you over the past eight years. Even after being parted for so long and having minimal contact over those years, the two of you so easily picked up in a better place than you were when you were in the prime of your first time together. You had both grown so much and your lives had changed. It had come. As Harry had said eight years ago, you just had to wait for “Our time.”

[blackberry-gingham]

I was wondering if you could do an imagine where the reader is a female Beatle who falls pregnant and has to take some time off and when the baby's born she takes them into the studio and the others can't get any work done because they want to play with the baby

Of course! Funny how this is a similar topic to the last request haha, nice timing!! 😂 Also, sorry I know you've been waiting a while, but I'm nearly through with my old draft requests! I hope you enjoy 💖

---

The sound of your heels click quietly on the polished floor of the recording studio as you make your way down the hall

You're still on maternity leave, but you thought maybe you'd surprise the boys and drop in

You glance down at your baby, only a few weeks old, and smile

He was a surprise for sure, but you couldn't be more happy

Despite the time away, you know exactly where to go and it isn't long at all before you reach the studio door

Even from here, you can here your band mates joking and milling about

You don't know why you feel so nervous, but you give your son a comforting bounce and make your way inside

The lads are just on the other side of the door, and a hush falls over them as they check to see who's intruding

And when you're revealed at last, the silence turns from calm and mundane to thick and heavy around you

All five of you stare at one another, searching for words to speak

At last Paul, one of your closest friends from the bunch, exclaims you name as he jumps up to greet you

Following his lead, the rest of the lads join in and suddenly, it feels as though you were never away

They all ask you how you've been and about the baby

Paul asks if he can hold him, and the rest look on in awe

"Well, aren't you a handsome devil?", Paul holds up your boy to compare the two of you, "Why you look just like you mum! Doesn't he lads?"

John and George nod and agree, while Ringo looks as though he's genuinely pondering the idea first before coming to a conclusion

You try to be fair and steer the conversation back to the boys work, feeling quite sure they don't want to coddle your baby all day

But it would appear you're wrong, as each question you pose is answered quickly and replaced with something else about your son

"Say, I wonder...", Paul turns around and with one hand places his bass back flat on the ground and then the baby beside it

Your son crawls on his belly a little closer to the peculiar item and reaches for the shiny chords

Paul looks quite pleased, "There, see? He'll be a great bass player some day, I knew it"

"Well that's no fair, he only has one option!", John cuts in and quickly goes to grab his guitar

He places it on the floor in a similar fashion to Paul's bass, "Here, try this one son"

"Hold on, me too!", Ringo looks around and thinks a moment, before simply placing down his drumsticks

The baby giggles and bounces at being presented with so many new toys

He thinks a moment as the five of you wait with baited breath to see what he chooses

At last, he crawls over to the drumsticks and puts one in his mouth to chew and suck on

Ringo becomes a little alarmed, "Ey now, don't ruin em!"

While the other three protest adamantly

John once again claims injustice, citing that "of course he'd go for those, they're there only ones in his reach"

While Paul refuses to accept the development, claiming that he went for the bass first, and that's that

The four of them playfully bicker and debate while you laugh and retrieve your son and Ringo's slobber covered sticks

Oh how you've missed it here...

For fun, you decide to throw some fuel on the argument as per your usual role and ask how we'll know if he wants to be a singer

John gets a bright idea and goes for a mic, while George surveys you on how vocal your son is at home

Through all the mayhem, no one notices even Brian walks in

"Oi, what's all this then? You four were supposed to be coming up with a new brid-"

But he stops short at finally noticing you

He trots over to great you and gives you a hug

Brian's missed you greatly, he's always said you're the only sane one of the five

After some catching up, he bends down and gives the baby a little tickle, "And who's this then?", he smiles

You introduce your son by name and recount the previous goings, much to Brian's amusement

"Ah, you know I think i have a way we can find out for sure...", he turns around and goes to work as the other lads clamor around, excited for an answer

You shake your head and trot after them

It would appear recording for the day has been forgotten and you think to yourself...

It's good to be home

[m1ssunderstanding]

Understanding Lennon McCartney Rewatch Part 3.1

I thank my lucky stars every night that Yoko eventually got sick of playing secret-keeper.

Paul: I didn't leave the Beatles. The Beatles have left the Beatles . . . John said he wanted a divorce. Alright, so do I. See how they say “Beatles” and they mean each other sometimes?

Derek Taylor on John's position on the break-up: if Paul were to approach him and say “let's do it together again” he probably would; with no more words, he would probably do it. Which is an insane claim to make to a world full of people grieving the greatest band to ever exist unless you are very very sure of that probability. But if it's true that that's all it would have taken, and Paul didn't do it? That hurts my head a little. Do we think he was just hurt too bad to want it back? Do we think he didn't know he had that kind of power? Do we think he was glad to be free of the group?

Ugh my heart can't take it. I'd cry too, John, watching that. I mean look at how they are looking at each other. Look at everything they've lost in a year. I'd bawl like a baby too.

Paul sends John a long, thorough letter, begging for them to legally end their partnership outside of a court. John's run out of cards at this point, but he still doesn't want to lose Paul, so he's just going to play dumb.

This is how bad he doesn't want to lose him, actually: he goes along with Klein in tricking Paul this time. Calls him up and asks him to come to the studio for a jam session, because it'll hurt his case in court. But for multiple reasons – the Eastmans were knowledgeable lawyers, and Paul might not have even wanted to be in a room with John at the time anyway – Paul doesn't come. Which John would've been hurt and angry over, no matter his motives.

"They tell you to stop crying at about age twelve. Be a man. What the hell's that?" I'm so proud of John for his (albeit long and backsliding) journey out of his toxic masculinity and violence. Something I honestly don't see him achieving without Yoko.

And from that quote it transitions to Paul in Scotland, looking like the embodiment of depression, as the opening of “Isolation” plays. It's perfect.

“And don't try to come over here. Or you might get in some trouble.” The way he just froze when he saw them filming him and then the next thing we see is him threatening them? Get ‘em, babe!

John sounds so giddy about this one-upping competition with Paul. I'll scare him and then he'll scare me!

The whole Lennon Remembers era is such a terrible case of diarrhea of the mouth in general, but the amount of homophobic language is quite striking compared to how John talked before and after.

John, talking about George in Rolling Stone: "he was working with two fucking brilliant songwriters and he learned a lot from us." People read that quote and just parrot it like they do with everything John said in this period and act like George had nothing to be angry over. He had every right to be much angrier and hold a much bigger grudge than he did.

And about George's new record, which was phenomenal and brilliant, John is transparently jealous and so cruel. If he'd said that about me and then asked me to play on his new record I'd tell him to go to hell. Why did George do it?

See and everyone who knows John knows how much he loved Brian and to hear him speaking so crassly and cruelly about Brian must've been a sure indication to them to just take the entire interview through that lense of “oh he's just saying shit”. But that's only the people who knew him. Everyone else for the rest of time took this shit as constitutional. And it pisses me off. It should be locked away in a vault somewhere and no one is allowed to listen to it until they've passed some kind of Beatles and emotional intelligence tests.

This crushes my soul. How warped must his definition of love have been by that point that he genuinely believed Phil Spector and Allen Klein loved him more than Paul and George did? It's bonkers.

John in 1967: all you need is love! John in 1971: the point of life is to manipulate people. . . . What the hell happened to you, buddy?

I go back and forth as to who's the smarter PR person: John or Yoko? Because maybe she's right. Maybe they shouldn't divulge that they're master manipulators. But is this one of those times when it's good to be all “look how honest we are about this! We're not hiding anything! We're saying bad things about ourselves too! So you should believe us about everything else!”

Really this documentarian should be hired to make all the music videos for all the Beatles and solo songs. This one for “Too Many People” is perfect. Paul walking into court with a full beard and a confident stride, John and Yoko in bed, Paul horse riding overlayed on Linda's gorgeous face like she's some goddess, designing his fate. All of it is just pure brilliance.

I'm forever laughing at just the title of the song, too. Because to John and Yoko it was so important that they were Weird and Off-putting. Different. Revolutionary. And to say “no. You're not special. There's actually an excess of people like you.” Is so funny to me.

“When she wants an A side, that's when we start fighting.” Oh gosh. Remember how I said he backslides a lot in his feminism journey? Yeah…

Insanity quote Hall of Fame. Yeah, I know he meant to say it's weird to be best friends with a woman. But it sounds like he's saying it's weird to fuck a woman. Which maybe he subconsciously means both idk.

Paul: we need to legally dissolve the partnership because it's the only way we're attached anymore. Ouch. Okay it's true. It's deserved. But that must've stung for the guy who was terrified of losing people. Must've sent him into fight or flight.

I think the point of this framing is to say that if they'd had facetime back then, instead of just crackly phone lines, HDYS would not have been written. Not with those puppy eyes staring him down like that.

Interviewer: the song wasn't even funny though. John: well I think it's hilarious. Interviewer: hmm. Lol I love hearing interviewers talk to John about his lyrics like he's a real guy doing a real job, though. Imagine a music critic now saying John Lennon wasn't clever in his lyrics. You can't, yeah. Me either.

What a slap in the face to Cynthia. Guess she wasn't Cool Girl enough. Should've gone girled him. That would be an excellent fic. Cyn and Jane gone girl their idiot bfs and John and Paul realize they're in love on death row. But anyway, yeah. If Paul would've just pet John's head . . .

Another absolutely bonkers thing to say. That's something the Rockstar’s ex wife says in a documentary ten years after he's dead, not something a songwriting partner says, completely unprompted, in an exiting the band interview.

And then he goes off on what I see as a self-soothing diatribe on Paul the family man. You can see the hoops he jumped through to get himself there. What did Paul want that I couldn't give him? A family. And is that justified? Absolutely not, only pussies and conservatives want families.

Allan Klein: were you and Paul ever really close, then? John: no. John: not that I didn't love him. I did. It's just that every time I let my guard down, he hurt me. Holy shit. At this point, after getting hit in the face with so much of John's Paul-made pain with nothing from the other side but pictures of the happy McCartney family, I'm genuinely feeling quite angry at Paul. Me. An extremely biased Paul girl who knows it's far more complicated and multi-dimensional than this. No wonder the uninformed public fucking hated his guts.

And as they're showing this quote, “I didn't want to hurt you,” plays mournfully in the background. They really are so twisted up in each other there's no separating individual identities.

Okay so he's a psychopath. So what? He's the sexiest man that ever was or ever will be. He's allowed to be a horrible person. No, but really. He's Get Back Paul but healthier. He's done with his depression drinking and he's been spending a lot of time proving he's still useful enough to exist by building fences and shearing sheep.

And this is how Paul talks about George to interviews. John said Klein made ATMP a success but Paul disagrees. "George recorded it all, wrote it all, did it all, wasn't anything to do with [Klein]. It was George's victory, wasn't it?" Compare that to how John does it and tell me again why the hell George is Team John?

What is Paul's obsession with daddies? Actually I know exactly what the obsession with daddies comes from, but we won't get into that here. I do find it interesting that in ‘69 he's saying “we do need a sort of central daddy figure.” And in ‘71 he's deriding John needing one and won't let John's daddy of choice touch him with a hundred foot pole.

I tend to think Paul chafes against authority in general, but that's actually not right. He never had a problem with George Martin. I think it's just abusive authority or authority he doesn't trust yet.

[dancinginthesliverglow]

@febuwhump Percy Jackson Mini-Masterlist

Since 10/28 of my fanfics for febuwhump are in the Percy Jackson fandom, I thought I'd make a list with just those:

Day 1: Mind Control 1.2k T

Tartarus had its own rules. Fire was drinkable. The ground was the body of a dark god. The air was acid, and demigods could be turned into smokey corpses.

Compared to that, the idea of controlling poisons was… easy.

Percy glared at the poisonous lake around him. He focused, and reached with the part of his mind that allowed him to control water.The poisonous tide stopped. The fumes blew away from him and back towards the goddess. The lake of poison rolled toward her in tiny waves and rivulets.

Akhlys took a hesitant step back. “What is this?!” She looked alarmed, scared even. Percy thought it was a good look on her.

“Poison,” Percy snarled at her. “That’s your specialty, right?”

Day 3: Imprisonment  1.9k T

After the Giant War, Percy's life is looking up. His relationship with Annabeth is strong as ever. Poseidon regularly invites him down to Atlantis to spend time with him and Tyson. The greek and roman have resolved most of their issues. Grover is starting his life's calling as Lord of the Wild. Paul helps Percy get his drivers license, and Percy helps his mom paint a room for his soon to be little sister.

Everything is perfect.

That is, until someone abducts Percy.

Day 6: "Please come back."  2.4k G

Percy studies the outline of Chicago. What was once a beautiful lively city is now a deadly, haunted wasteland. Percy shoulders his pack and goes to move onward, when he smells something in the air.

Smoke.

Percy wonders if the undead have managed to set themselves on fire. It wouldn’t be the first time. However, in the back of his mind, a quiet, hopeful voice says that it could be another human.

Percy hasn’t seen another human or demigod in over three weeks.

Another part of his mind whispers that it could be a trap set by a monster. It definitely wouldn’t be the first time they’ve tried that. However, the chance of seeing another demi-god, or even a rare, unturned human is too much to turn up.

Percy follows the smoke.

Day 12: "Who are you?" 2.0k G

He wakes up in a forest. He’s on his back lying on the dirt, looking up at the green canopy above him. He doesn't know how he got here. He stands up and looks around.

Suddenly, there's a sound, startling him.He jumps and spins around. In front of him is a... man. At least, he looks like a man. He’s wearing black jogging shorts, and a green loose shirt.

Something flickers in the back of his mind, but he can’t quite grasp it. The man in front of him, who had definitely not been there a moment ago, seems eerily familiar, but he can’t remember where he’s seen him.

Actually he can’t remember anything, at all.

~

After the Last Olympian and before the Son of Neptune, Percy encounters Hermes a couple times in his amnesiac state.

Day 14: "I didn't mean it." 2.4k T

After the Giant War, Percy decides what he wants to do with the rest of his life, career-wise. Percy and Annabeth go to New Rome's University to study marine biology and architecture. They get a dorm together, and it slowly starts to feel like home to both of them.

One day, Annabeth gets stressed with university and unintentionally snaps at Percy sending him into a panic attack.

Day 18: "I can't see." 3.5k T

After the Giant War, Percy and Annabeth get kidnapped by one of Gaea's Giantesses who wants revenge on Percy for stopping her mother's plans to wake up. To defeat her, Percy goes all out with his powers as son of the earthshaker & natural disasters.

Nico and Will show up with Mrs. O'Leary.

Day 22: Burned 5.3k T

Communications are down; phones, landline and the Internet aren’t working. Percy gets a dream of Hermes captured, and on the brink of fading. Percy, Annabeth and Nico go on a journey to save him.

Very mild angst, along with a touch of powerful!percy, percabeth fluff, solangelo fluff and Mrs. O'Leary with adorable puppies.

Day 23: "Don't Look." 2.6k G

When Luke stabs himself and Kronos at the end of the Last Olympian, he lets out a surge of energy. Percy gets hit by this energy, and it transports him back in space and time all the way to England 1993, the summer before Harry Potter's third year.

~

A Percy Jackson and Harry Potter Crossover

Day 24: Memory Loss 1.5k G

George and Martha have been stolen. Everything seems too… quiet without their constant bantering and hissing in his ears.

He goes to Percy Jackson for help. Annabeth Chase is with him, she gets annoyed at his arrival. Percy tells her to go back to their picnic. He turns to Hermes to ask if they can step into his office and then grabs his arm -

Millennia of bad memories of deceitful mortals trying to poison, hurt and trick him instantly rush back to him and instinctively Hermes fingers twitch, milliseconds away from smiting Percy Jackson.

There was a very, very short list of beings that Hermes was so casual, so familiar, so trusting with. His mother Maia, his brother Apollo, his snakes George and Martha, mortal women he fell for, a few of his sons and the odd hero or mortal that dedicated their lives to him.

Percy Jackson wasn't any of them.

Day 28: "You have to let me go." 1.3k G

AU to the ending of Mark of Athena; what if Frank heard Hazel and flew back down to catch Percy and Annabeth before they fell into Tartarus? Is he strong enough to carry both of them to safety, or will one of them fall into Tartarus alone?

I hope yall enjoy these!! :)

My full febuwhump masterlist can be found here:

[iwanttobeyourwonderwoman]

I can barely breathe when you are near.

I’m just gonna say I totally loved the show. Mad love. 

And in case you haven’t figure it out yet, or watched the show to get it, I’m talking about Ginny and Georgia. 

So many important topics touched on so many feelings and oh so many love triangles.

So join me as i dissect the whole show hehe .

Alright basic plot-

Young single mom Georgia and her teenage daughter Ginny, and younger son Austin, are always on the road and have now moved across the country to the small town of Wellsbury, Massachusetts from Texas, where they encounter a whole load of quirky characters. Ginny, who never had friends, slowly starts fitting in with the popular sophomores, mainly her neighbour Maxine, who also has a twin brother Marcus while Georgia befriends their mother Ellen. The series follows their attempts and struggles of fitting in with the town, all while developing their own love triangles (square in Georgia’s case). And the best part is, the unfolding of Georgia’s dark past filled with teen mom struggles and a little bit of murder mystery as to how she has gotten to where she is now. 

Teen mom and daughter combo again? Been there done that!

Well yes, as everyone compares it to Gilmore Girls (my personal favourite show ever) here are some similarities and differences as well as other show references.

*SPOILERS!!

It does explore that close relationship that Ginny and Georgia have, but obviously the kind of bond that Rory and Lorelai had were a lot stronger and had their own personal quirks and wit. There were often rifts in G&G’s relationship caused by the secrets of Georgia’s past as well as Ginny feeling inferior to her own mother in terms of looks and her ability to be a chameleon to fit in anywhere. Rory was more focused on her grades and was comfortable just having her few friends. Ginny on the other hand wanted to be liked and wanted to fit in with her school friends and eventually becomes part of MANG and the boys. And in the case of the mothers, Lorelai focused on raising Rory and worked her way up to eventually owning her own Inn while Georgia snuck and tiptoed her way around swindling money wherever she could but all in the best intentions of her kids more than herself, desperate to give her kids the life she never had. 

Also in a way I feel like this is also similar to Jane the Virgin except of course Jane’s character is older, but if you take the standpoint of the mother-daughter relationship and love triangle(Jane/Rafael/Michael) as well as a little psychotic Murder mystery Petra vibes.

, I feel like G&G is a good mix of Gilmore and JTV.

When it comes to love interests, Ginny was stuck between boyfriend Hunter and neighbour Marcus. Sweet, innocent Hunter (my favourite character in the whole series because if you know me you’d know I’m a hopeless romantic) was pretty much Dean to Rory, while cool skater and stoner guy Marcus was Jess. And honestly I see a similar trend here where most people are Team Jess/Marcus whereas I’m team Dean/Hunter for the main fact that Dean and Hunter both treated the girls really good and I like that. 

Georgia, as I mentioned was more of in a love square than a triangle, because why the hell not right? There’s Joe, the owner of the cafe where everyone spends most of their time, then there’s Mayor Paul, who Georgia pushes her way to work for to get on his good side. And then of course, Zion, Ginny’s father. Sounds a lot like Luke, Jason and Christopher doesn’t it. I love that Joe had a more interesting and different story, where it was depicted in the flashback scene where homeless young Georgia, just found out she was pregnant at a gas station and comes out to a crowd of high schoolers, which is when she meets Joe. She says to him  “I’ll look you up if I’m ever in Wellsbury” Joe was already attracted to her as a teenager and doesn’t realise it’s the same Georgia he met years ago till the last episode whereas Georgia has known all this while. I don’t know about you but I feel like now Georgia has the funds to move to somewhere she aspired to be, where she knows her kids will get the best and where she received “a sandwich and a pair of raybans that changed my life” Also let me just add that Raymond Ablack (Joe) is INCREDIBLY HOT.

Moving on to Paul, Georgia is attracted to him but there is that underlying greed because Paul can provide her stability and security and power. And that is when she will finally feel like she has achieved wheat she needs to. Towards the end, she almost chooses Zion because of her deep affection for him as ‘her penguin’ as she refers to him as. Being with Zion also means she can let her guard down and relax a little, and obviously is a great father to Ginny and even Austin who isn’t even his biologically. Which also makes both guys equally good contenders for Georgia. 

Another thing I love about the show is MANG. Their friendship is real, it’s not just Abby and Norah accepting Ginny because of Max. Yes Abby did throw her under the bus in the beginning but they soon became really close and never singled her out after the shoplifting incident. It wasn’t a whole case of Regina George and the plastics all over again. They didn’t care that she was different. 

So I feel like Abby is a very interesting character also. I read that her character was created based on a friend of the writer. So abby puts up a very strong front when actually she is feeling quite distraught from her parents ongoing divorce as well as her own issues with body image. Abby is very petite but still is not satisfied with her body so she tapes her thighs to make them look smaller and wear tight jeans so that she can look slimmer. I the Halloween episode, Press even calls her “whale legs” and she obviously gets upset and you can see it affects her because she’s striving for such a perfect image all the time but also I feel like she has a thing for Press so that really messes her up. You can also see she does get a little jealous of Ginny and Max’s friendship but that’s mainly because she feels lonely and unheard and she ends off being estranged from Norah and Max feeling like her whole world crumbled. I really hope MANG gets to patch up. They were the ideal friend group along with the guys.

“Oppression Olympics, let’s go.”

I don’t know guys, this line really stood out to me.

Basically this is the scene in episode 8 where Ginny and Hunter argue about racism and why Ginny deserved to win that writing contest with her unique style (girl used slam poetry for goodness sake that essay was amazing!!??) But Hunter won and he is clearly the favourite of their teacher. He talks about how he is half Taiwanese and the Asian stereotypes he faces here as well as the White remarks he gets from the Asian side of his family. Ginny too says she can’t fit in because she is half Black and how this town had a very small black population and people are not sure how to look at her. I feel like touching on these topics of race was really vital to not only the show but to the actors as well. From the bts, I read that Antonia (Ginny) and Mason (Hunter) were in a room with the writer and jus spoke about the kind of remarks they have personally faced which helped develop the argument scene because it was so real and raw and quite upsetting to watch. It’s something very relatable to the audience which also just amplified that whole episode overall. 

I mentioned earlier my favourite character is Hunter. I admit I have a major crush on both the actor and the fictional character. Ok so I think Hunter was a great character, a very good boyfriend too, I mean look at the way he cared for Ginny, supported her, just that unfortunately she was more attracted to Marcus in the end but also that ugly oppression olympics fight just gave his character more depth to show that Hunter wasn’t as perfect as he seemed. I think girls watching the show deserved to see what a good guy looked like. He was smart, in a band, a very caring boyfriend, popular but not cocky. If you compare to let’s say the character if Peter Kavinsky, I think Hunter made a better boyfriend. DO i also think Kavinsky is a damn dream boat? Of course I do. but then again, I thought John Ambrose was a much better guy in the TATB series. Kavinsky was originally dating another girl before the whole fake couple thing started. Whereas going back to Hunter, he already admired Ginny from the first episode and stayed truly respectful until the end of the show. And that’s something girls should see and aspire to have.

Yes I loved the song I loved the fact that he sang it for her, I am such a hopeless romantic and I absolutely hate that poor Hunter/Mason has been getting a lot of backlash for the song/character. I’ve rewatched a lot of the Hunter/Ginny scenes multiple times just because. Hunter was a good guy. Period. 

So looking forward, I think a lot of important topics were touched in this show, slightly different from let’s say 13 Reasons Why, and I hope that they can continue to delve into those stories such as racism,self harm, body image and so on which really hit home for me. Important discussion topics, important for kids to see like oh hey this character is kinda like me, and if they are facing these issues, how can they get through it?

Also I need answers to all my questions - Where did Ginny go? How does Georgia get away with everything? Will MANG get back together? Does Abby have a deeper story to tell? Do Marcus and Ginny end up together? AND WHAT ABOUT MY POOR BBY HUNTER??? Lots of unanswered questions, lots of stories to dig deeper into, and so many secrets. I loved the mother l-daughter relationship, the same way I loved Lorelai and Rory’s relationship too.

I obviously totally enjoyed the show, I’ve recommended it to many friends and I hope they enjoy it as much as I do, and get more people on my Hunter Chen bandwagon hahahaha! Let’s hope for a season 2!!

Another super long post, finally done. I can move on to watching other shows now (and still constantly wish I too had cool stuff like Sophomore sleepover)

Hate you, kidding! Love you, mean it!

(just gonna leave these here because why not????)

[365days365movies]

January 29-31, 2021: The Mad Max Franchise

Now that I’ve finished watching all of the Mad Max films, I can confidently say that I am indeed a fan! The journeys of the ex-cop through a post-apocalyptic landscape that just gets increasingly worse and worse. Yeah, I can dig it.

And so, I thought it’d be fitting to talk about all of these movies at once, rather than just talk about them one at a time. And I mean ALL of these movies. After all, I started this month by saying the Fury Road was my favorite action film; might as well end it talking about the movie!

Recap

Mad Max: 78%

Mad Max was a great movie, honestly. It’s also HANDS-DOWN the weakest of the quadrilogy. I think that, since this is Miller’s first film, as well as being the first in this franchise in general, this is Miller carving out this universe on screen for the first time, so it doesn’t feel as fleshed out and as stylistically unique as the succeeding films. So, it’s hard to hold that against this film. Anyway, let’s break it down a little.

Cast and Acting: It’s legitimately nice to see Mel Gibson before he became...well, Mel Gibson, at least from a cinematic standpoint. And yes, Hugh Keays-Byrne is certainly memorable as Toecutter, and is a fitting first villain to the franchise. But, uh...that’s it for standout performances. Yeah, Joanne Samuel is endearing as Jess, and I like Steve Bisley as Goose, of course. But they don’t take the spotlight in my memory as much as our main two players. Which, obviously, is fine, but I like me a good supporting character in there as well. Still, this is getting a good 8/10 from me.

Plot and Writing: Plot’s you’re pretty standard cop story. Cop is awesome, cop wants to quit to spend time with family, cop’s family is killed by the villain, cop destroys villain. Not much outside of that. The biggest thing to praise to story for is the mild universe-building given to us. And even then, there isn’t a whole lot. Not, of course, that there needs to be. Credit goes to George Miller, Byron Kennedy, and James McCausland for this 7/10.

Directing and Action: George Miller’s cutting his teeth on the celluloid for the first time, and it’s awesome...for a first-time director, anyway. As for the action: yes, please. It doesn’t have the same pageant s future entries in this franchise, but it’s certainly great at the same time. Overall, 8/10 here.

Production and Art Design: It’s beginning, even though it’s not there yet. This universe hasn’t become the post-apocalyptic hellscape that it’s going to become, but the beginnings are there. Because of this, leather might be a dominating fashion choice, but...not as much as its gonna be. But, OK, let’s stop comparing this to the rest of the franchise. On its own merits, this film looks good! Doesn’t stand out too harshly from the crowd, but it still looks quite good. So, 8/10 here, too!

Music and Editing: Tony Patterson and, yes, George Miller were the editors for this mad boy, and they sought to make an Australian film with a fast-editing style, and in a way that the film could work without sound, as well as with. They way they incorporated sound and music (by Brian May, but not the one you’re thinking) into the film would actually be incorporated as industry standard practice in general! Wow! So for all that...8/10. It’s good, but this is early in their careers, so it can be a teensy bt choppy at time. And the music’s recognizable, but not particularly memorable after the fact. But still, 8/10.

Mad Max 2 AKA The Road Warrior: 92%

This is where I start to fall in love with the franchise. The Road Warrior is where the franchise really begins for me, and it’s EXTREMELY high up on my favorite action films list for this month. Obviously not the highest, but it’s up there for sure.

Cast and Acting: Gibson’s starting to come into his own and own this character, and I think this film is where he’s at his finest as Max. Definitely the most memorable and noteworthy. Antagonists, both Vernon Wells and Wez, and Kjell Nilsson as Lord Humungus, are fanTAStic, and I love them both. Supporting cast also ain’t no slouch this time! Bruce Spence’s Gyro is a wonderful character, and extremely fun to watch. Even the settlers, like Michael Preston’s noble portrayal of Papagallo, were memorable to me. Great cast all around, and they’re getting a 9/10 from me. Why not a 10? Well, for all of those performances, there’s also Feral Kid and Toadie...so, it’s not perfect

Plot and Writing: Plot’s definitely more interesting this time around! We’ve gone into the deep end of apocalypse, as compared to the first film, and we instead get an enforcer storyline for Max. And, yeah, I love that. This movie would carve out the tone of the rest of the franchise, and there’s a reason for that: it’s great. Terry Hayes, Brian Hannant, and of course, George Miller, you guys get a 9/10 for this one, too!

Directing and Action: Right off the bat 10/10. Action is AMAZING IN THIS MOVIE, and George Miller is doing a great job with directing. Not much to say here, other than the fact that this movie looks fantastic, all the way through.

Production and Art Design: A 9/10. This is where the franchise comes into its own, and it does that with a HELL of a lot of leather and metal studs. And yeah, the villains of this movie have a BDSM vibe about them, but it’s still iconic. Not to mention that the vehicles are now taking their true, metal-modded forms. Again, 9/10.

Music and Editing: Brian May turned it UP this time, and the music here is iconic and great. Editing’s pretty good, too, although I did notice some spotty sound editing areas, like in Mad Max. For this one, 9/10 as well.

Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome: 86%

I honestly wish this was rated higher for me, but there are a few issues that I did have with it. However, I gotta say, this one might be the second-highest in my heart. You know what the number one is. Still, I wanna talk about this one, because it’s what made be fall in love with the universe of this franchise.

Cast and Acting: By the time we get here, Mel Gibson is, well...Mel Gibson. He kind of stops inhabiting the role of Max at this point, and becomes the ‘80s and ‘90s action star that we’re all familiar with. So instead, the focus should be on the villains. Tina Turner! WHOOOOOO, Aunty Entity! Look, I love Lord Humungus, but Tina Turner definitely beats him in terms of character. And I might like Wez, but I love MasterBlaster, and...well, mostly Angelo Rossitto. Paul Larsson’s good too, even though there isn’t much acting in the role. And then, there’s Helen Buday, Tom Jennings, and the rest of the desert kids. And let’s not forget Bruce Spence or Edwin Hodgeman! Yeah, this one earns its 9/10 for some memorable performances. Might not have been Oscar-worthy, but they have a special place in my heart.

Plot and Writing: Intricate plot this time! It does seem like George Miller and Terry Hayes get better and better with each movie. Real talk, the universe-building in this one is INTENSE, and well-done for that matter. And the writing’s good as well. This one gets another 8/10, because it’s not perfect in the writing department, but it’s still damn good!

Directing and Action: Y’know, weirdly, 8/10 on this one. Yeah, the action’s pretty damn light here, as compared to the previous two films. Not that I’m complaining, mind you, I love me some good character development and story. But if I’m judging it for action, it’s a bit less. Still, direction’s fantastic; definitely George Miller’s best effort so far. So, 8/10.

Production and Art Design: No surprise, but it’s a 10/10 here. The style of these films is evolve WAY FURTHER with this one, as we get the sense that the world has gotten worse, just by pure physical comparison. And yet, everything is starting to return to some kind of rudimentary order, with places such as Bartertown. Yeah, this one RULES visually, and I would say it’s arguably the best yet.

Music and Editing: Well, music’s still good, but the tone shift from rock instrumentals is a little jarring. Still, for the score, Maurice Jarre does good. And, yeah, Turner’s power ballad, “We Don’t Need Another Hero”, is more well-remembered than the movie itself by many. Hell, I had NO IDEA that this song came from this movie. But for all of that (and for great editing), an 8/10 is going here.

Mad Max Fury Road: 94%

Need I say anything? Let’s get into this one.

Cast and Acting: Well, Tom Hardy’s Max Rocktansky is fine, and definitely takes off of Gibson’s earlier portrayals, but I can’t really say he’s the absolute star. No, that’s the Atomic Blonde herself, Charlize Theron. Furiosa is FAR more memorable than Max here, and that’s pretty obviously on purpose. And hey, Hugh Keays-Byrne is back for a FAR more memorable villain in Immortan Joe. GOD, I love Joe; he’s great. And again, supporting cast aren’t slouching a BIT. Nicholas Hoult, Rose Huntington-Whiteley, and of course...iOTA. You know, the Doof Warrior. Yeah. The dude who plays the blind flamethrower guitarist on the back of a truck is called the Doof Warrior, and is played by a dude who calls himself iOTA. I LOVE THIS GODDAMN MOVIE. 10/10!

Plot and Writing: OK, I’l freely admit that this is the weakest element of an otherwise amazing movie. Because, yeah, it’s basically one long chase with some background plot. Not bad, but not great at the same time. While it’s certainly engaging, and the writing is overly memorable, I’m still giving this one an 8/10.

Directing and Action: I mean...c’mon. 10/10.

Production and Art Design: I mean...COME ON. 10/10!

Music and Editing: MUUUUUUSIC. Junkie XL is the composer this time, and he’s put to excellent usage. Yeah, this is the most memorable music in the franchise, bar none. And the editing is also great, as per usual. While it’s not on my playlist (yet), it deserves to be, just for pump-up music. Although, if I listen to that while driving...eh, maybe not. 9/10!

And the winner is Mad Max Fury Road, at a...94%.

Wait...94%? OH. OH NO.

That means...it’s been dethroned? I, uh...I’m gonna have to figure that out. End-of-month summary?

End-of-month summary. See you later today, people.

[jyndor]

You know, the conversation about sea shanties is just another chapter in what seems like the endless story of people of color, in particular black and indigenous people, telling us to learn the history of the things we like and white people hearing that it means we have to lock those things away forever and burn our books and stamp on our records. As if that isn’t what white people have done to black and indigenous stories, to black and indigenous cultures, to black and indigenous arts, wealth, etc for centuries. As if that is what the people of color who are educating us on the things we like are actually advocating for. News flash: part of the history of oppressors is fearing the tables turning, when that is never been the goal of civil rights and social justice movements. Ever.

So fun fact: I grew up loving good ol’ classic rock n’ roll. My first concert was the Allman Brothers Band, which is one of the most interesting rock bands of all time imo. I really love a good southern twangy jam, the way the guitars sing, the bluesy sunny vibe. Ramblin’ Man? Jessica? Simple Man? Carry On Wayward Son? Hotel California? Perfect fucking driving music if you ask me.

If you know anything about southern rock, you know the iconography - the Confederate Flag is everywhere, in the crowds, for many bands it’s in the album covers and the photoshoots, etc. You know what you get when you wade in the Southern rock water*.

The lyrics from Lynyrd Skynyrd’s Sweet Home Alabama have been parsed and interpreted in all kinds of ways -

In Birmingham they love the governor (boo-boo-boo) Now we all did what we could do Now Watergate does not bother me Does your conscience bother you?

And yeah, you could read this as ironic or satirical. In fact, that’s what guitarist and co-writer Gary Rossington says according to NPR -

"A lot of people believed in segregation and all that. We didn't. We put the 'boo, boo, boo' there saying, 'We don't like Wallace,' " Rossington said. But he also added that there were "a lot of different interpretations. I'm sure if you asked the other guys who are not with us anymore and are up in rock and roll heaven, they have their story of how it came about."

And yeah, maybe they didn’t like George Wallace or Nixon. Sure. Whatever. I could buy it, actually. Because this song actually is indicative of how many privileged people feel when they perceive being called out, even if the criticism isn’t about them. Call it wjhat you want - white fragility, white liberal sensitivity, etc. This song was written in response to Neil Young’s Southern Man, which goes:

Southern man, better keep your head Don't forget what your good book said Southern change gonna come at last Now your crosses are burning fast

Southern man I saw cotton and I saw black Tall white mansions and little shacks Southern man, when will you pay them back? I heard screamin' and bullwhips cracking How long? How long? How?

Yeah, writer Ronnie Van Zant was so bothered by Neil Young talking about l*nchings, abject sl*very and reparations in Southern Man, a song that isn’t even about them or Alabama in particular, that he wrote Sweet Home Alabama.

Well I heard Mister Young sing about her Well I heard ol' Neil put her down Well I hope Neil Young will remember A southern man don't need him around anyhow

Sweet home Alabama Where the skies are so blue Sweet home Alabama Lord I'm comin' home to you 

So ironically, even though Neil Young was just talking to racists in the US South, someone who ostensibly didn’t agree with segregation took that song as a personal attack because he liked “southern culture” and his home state of Alabama, despite its flaws.

But Young never says that the South is irredeemable. He just says white southerners need to come to terms with their history (and yes make reparations). In fact, according to NPR he has some issues with his lyrics. “I didn't like my words when I wrote them. They are accusatory and condescending.” I don’t agree. It needs to be said.

So Van Zant and the Skynyrd guys heard a criticism of white Southern racism and at BEST thought, “well that’s an unfair portrayal of me, a southern white man.” Van Zant can’t answer this question for himself since he died in a plane crash with two other band members and their manager in 1977.

In my opinion, knowing how white people can be when confronted with the reality of racism, this feels a lot like every other time a well-meaning white person (myself included) has said, “but not all white people.”

Not all Southern whites supported segregation at the time, but most did - and all white people benefit from the legacy of sl*very. I might not be a descendant of people who enslaved others, my ancestors might have come here as refugees, but after they fled Ireland for New York, they threw black people under the bus for whiteness.

Rock is a genre that owes everything to Black musicians - to blues and spirituals and gospel and yes, Black work songs. Black history is in the DNA of rock music. That I grew up thinking it was white music is mortifying to be honest.

But I don’t really like Sweet Home Alabama and I never have. It’s kind of just meh to me. Not a big loss.

And that takes me to the Allman Brothers Band. As far as I am aware, ABB (through many, many iterations - this is another band plagued by tragedy) has never been cool with racism. According to Vulture:

The Allmans respected not just black art but black players; as kids, Gregg and Duane got lessons from an older black guitarist their mother once refused to allow into her home, and later, they caught hell having Jaimoe and bassist Lamar Williams in their ranks in their adopted home state of Georgia. “If a musician could play, we didn’t look at his skin color,” Gregg wrote in his 2012 memoir My Cross to Bear.

“Nobody around here had seen guys who looked like them,” soul food legend and friend of the band Mama Louise Hudson said in Alan Paul’s 2014 oral history One Way Out: The Inside History of the Allman Brothers Band. “A lot of the white folk around here did not approve of them long-haired boys, or of them always having a black guy with them.” Southern rock occupied a peculiar axis of Mason-Dixon pride and reverence to blues and soul veterans who were hampered and harangued by the politics of the South. Gregg always pushed back. He didn’t placate audiences’ blind patriotism and racism the way Charlie Daniels and Hank Williams Jr. have. Last year, he spoke out against North Carolina’s transphobic “bathroom bill,” and when asked about the confederate flag in 2015, he told Radio.com, “If people are gonna look at that flag and think of it as representing slavery, then I say burn every one of them.”

And that is great.

But.

Whipping Post. Written by white ally Gregg Allman, bluesy and wild and passionate on a level that is hard to imagine, this is... one of the greatest songs I have ever heard. And it also makes me wonder if it’s maybe belittling a part of slavery.

My friends tell me, that I've been such a fool But I had to stand by and take it baby, all for lovin' you I drown myself in sorrow as I look at what you've done But nothing seemed to change, the bad times stayed the same, And I can't run Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel Like I been tied to the whippin' post Tied to the whippin' post, tied to the whippin' post Good Lord, I feel like I'm dyin'.

Honestly? I don’t know. I’ve researched it, I’ve used google. There isn’t a lot the internet has to say about this song that isn’t “this song fucking slaps man!!!” Maybe part of it is the larger context - Allman was staunchly against racism and was taught by a Black guitarist and played with Black musicians and loved Black music. A white man comparing an emotionally abusive relationship with being whipped might feel different without that context.

(Whipping posts being used for people besides enslaved Black people does not mean Allman wasn’t referencing what Black American slaves experienced, so don’t even go there. I know. The Romans also had slaves. It’s different.)

But if some people of color on the internet critique this song someday, the appropriate response is not to act as if “hey here is where this comes from, please be mindful about historical context and get educated” means “never listen to that devil song again,” folks.

It’s about learning our histories so we can do better in the future. Not canceling entire genres of music. Some things are best left in the past but mostly it’s just about understanding what the things we love mean. And these things are more than their aesthetics.

*I also really, really love African American work songs. Always have.

[mithranqueersmusings]

I Think I'll Love You Too III

Chapter: 3/?

Rating: U

Summary: George and Ringo have been going out officially for a couple of months. Ringo anticipated that dating a stripper would be complicated, but he didn't understand exactly how complicated it would be.

Tags: Modern AU, Established Relationship

Pairing: George Harrison/Ringo Starr (Background McLennon)

AO3 link here / Fic masterlist here

Ringo hadn't been back to The Helter Skelter since he and George had started dating, much to the disappointment of John who had been begging constantly. However there cane a point where George began to grow suspicious, evidently he was worried that his relationship history was beginning to repeat itself. Not that he expressed any of these concerns to Ringo, instead he dropped passive aggressive hints and made vague comments which unfortunately reminded Ringo of the potential downsides to dating. Once the clues had been deciphered, Ringo vowed to return to the club the following night which seemed to please both John and George.

"You're not gonna get jealous are you?" George had asked while getting ready for his shift "Because if you are, just don't come."

Ringo certainly wasn't enjoying the harsher side of George but he understood the defensive tactic well "Of course not." He sat behind George who was doing his makeup in the mirror and wrapped his arms around his waist "What have I got to be jealous about?"

"I'm just saying..." George leaned in to the touch "You might think you won't get jealous, but when you see me rubbing my arse on some ugly bloke you might flip."

"George." Ringo said sternly "Stop worrying, please. I'll be just fine."

"Hmm, if you're sure." George sounded distracted as he coated his eyelashes in mascara.

Ringo had headed back home when George had left for work, he saw no use in hanging around the club so early in the evening. He caught up on some much needed sleep, his body was still rather exhausted. When night fell, John was excitedly knocking on Ringo's door. Awakening feeling groggy and disoriented Ringo shuffled over to open it. John burst in immediately, swinging the door so violently that Ringo had to jump backwards to avoid being hit.

"Jesus!" Ringo scolded "Could've taken my nose off."

"I'd be doing you a favour." John joked with a grin, collapsing onto Ringo's sofa "You got anything to drink?"

"Nice to see you too." Ringo scoffed, closing the door.

The two of them shared a few cold beers before heading out to the club, blasting the radio as they drove through the night. John was eager to see Paul, even though they'd spent the last few nights together, it was refreshing for Ringo to see his best friend so happy.

Ringo had forgotten how loud the music had been, the vibrations rattling in his ears as they made their way past the bouncer and into the warmth of the club. It was relatively packed, unsurprisingly for a Saturday night, but luckily their usual seats at the bar were free. John didn't even have to order a drink, as soon as he sat down he was being served without a word. Ringo supposed it would be an impressive sight if they weren't in a strip club, the thought passed his mind that John had paid the bartender prior just to make him look cool.

Ringo didn't recognise the dancer on stage, they had short platinum blonde hair and intricate tattoos dotted across their skin. Neither of them paid much attention, far more invested in their own conversation. Eventually they were shooed away from the bar to make room for other customers, so they sat at the back of the rows of chair and continued their nonsensical discussion as best they could.

"Ey up." John's tone changed as he nodded his head towards the stage "Someone's got their eye on you."

Ringo didn't register the words entirely at first, both his thoughts and visions gradually  blurring as he drank more and more. John nudged Ringo to direct his attention, the dancer was making their way through the throng of customers who were eagerly waving money in the air. Gradually they maneuverered over to Ringo and John, swinging their hips with their eyes glued to Ringo.

"Shit." Ringo breathed with a hint of a laugh.

He looked around the room to see if George was around, but there was no sign of him. As the dancer got closer and closer, Ringo figured there was nothing he could do but humour them and to get the whole thing over with as soon as possible. He could hardly complain, it was the guy's job after all. John seemed ready to burst into a fit of laughter upon witnessing Ringo's dilemma, his face scrunched up in an attempt to keep it in.

It was strange to compare the difference in emotion Ringo felt when being singled out by this new dancer versus how he'd previously felt with George; surprisingly the nerves were still present but were far more of a negative rather than actual excitement. Ringo leaned back in his chair a little in an attempt to gain some distance from the blonde dancer who had begun gyrating in front of him, but the gesture was mistaken for encouragement as he only intensified his lewd movements. John's laughter began pouring from his pursed lips, luckily the music masked the noise so that the dancer took no notice.

Ringo felt a hand on his shoulder, he assumed it was John trying to further his discomfort but then he heard shouting behind him and he knew something was up. Turning his head, Ringo saw an extremely pissed off looking George.

"You trying to be funny?" George was yelling, his hand possessively pressing down on Ringo's skin.

The other dancer seemed unfazed, passing George a momentary glance before reaching his hand forward to caress Ringo's cheek; at least that's where Ringo assumed he was aiming for it never reached it's destination. George gripped the dancer's wrist, the anger in his face melting away into a strange kind of satisfaction.

"Watch it." George spoke in a low voice, Ringo hardly even heard it.

By this point John was unable to restrain his emotions, his mouth agape in shock for a few moments before laughing again; George paid no attention to him, his dark eyes fixed solely on the blonde in front of him. He tried to shake George's hand off, it was causing quite the scene, but couldn't. After a few more moments of struggling, George released his grip and the dancer shuffled sheepishly away and attempted to finish their number with the little dignity they had left.

Ringo started laughing now, mostly because he was nervous, but was silenced when George ordered him to meet him outside. John gave Ringo a look which said 'good luck' with a mixture of both encouragement and worry.

In the cold air of the night Ringo felt himself sobering up a little, he hadn't fully registered the whole situation but it still felt pretty comical to him, though that may have just been the alcohol.

"You alright?" Ringo broke the silence, offering George a cigarette who snatched it.

"Yeah, yeah, yeah." George mumbled as he lit it.

"One too many 'yeah's there, I think." Ringo chuckled.

George just looked at him, saying nothing. Ringo knitted his brows together in worry.

"Er- You gonna say anything?" Ringo shifted his weight between his feet awkwardly.

George said nothing for a few more moments then finally said "I'm sorry."

Ringo laughed again "Sorry? For what?"

"I..." George broke off his speech with a huff "That was out of line. On my part, I mean."

Ringo rolled his eyes and moved closer to George, interlacing their fingers together "Don't be daft, George. I get it."

"But- I just..." George sighed, Ringo had never seen him so internally frustrated, he tried to speak again but Ringo silenced him with a kiss.

"You don't have to explain yourself to me." Ringo said firmly, his hands cupping George's cheeks.

"I- Alright..." George huffed, closing his eyes in an attempt to dispel the frustration "I really hate that new prick."

Ringo laughed, breaking whatever tension was laugh "I can tell. What's his deal anyway?"

"Oh, I dunno." George flicked his cigarette away "Think he's jealous of me or something. Can you blame him?"

"Not at all." Ringo hummed happily, planting a short kiss on George's now cold lips.

Ringo could feel the tension leaving George's body: his shoulders lowering, his breath slowing. He wondered whether he'd ever be able to have a drama-free night at this place.

"You wanna go back in?" Ringo offered, rubbing his thumb on George's cheek before pulling the hand away entirely.

"Sure, sure." George still seemed a little distracted, Ringo knew he wasn't being told everything "Let me get you a drink."

"If you're offering." Ringo smiled, leading the way back into the humid club.

"Will you stay until I finish?" George asked, sounding almost shy "Please." He added after a moment.

"Of course." Ringo held the door open for George to walk through.

Inside George led them over to the bar where he ordered another round for both Ringo and John. He placed a brief kiss on Ringo's cheek then vanished into the crowds. Ringo let out a huff of air, managing to find John who had moved to the front of the stage and was hollering even louder than the music. It was no mystery as to why, Paul was currently onstage spinning around the pole in a way Ringo only assumed was incredibly difficult. He was wearing no shirt yet a multicoloured tie was hanging around his neck, his trousers a sheer black material with relatively high platform boots on his feet.

When John realised Ringo had returned, he offered him a cheesy grin which revealed how drunk he really was. His face lit up when Ringo offered him yet another drink, accepting it gladly and downing it almost instantly.

"Everything alright?" John yelled into Ringo's ear, his eyes not moving from Paul.

"Yeah." Ringo shouted back, it was all that needed to be said.

As soon as Paul had finished his number, he sought John out in the crowd instantly and the two disappeared giggling excitedly into one of the private room. This left Ringo alone to think and, more importantly, drink. He spotted the blonde dancer serving drinks later on but avoided eye contact as best he could.

George had been appearing and disappearing throughout the night but Ringo didn't really mind, it wouldn't be too long until the club was closing for the night. Ringo tucked himself away in a distant corner, finishing an array of drinks and scrolling through his phone aimlessly.

Eventually John resurfaced, dark bruises dotting the skin of his neck, with a very satisfied grin. He didn't hang around for too long, helping Ringo finish some of his drinks, before excitedly saying goodbye to head to Paul's for the night. It was a relief to Ringo, he no longer had to worry about getting him home safely.

George appeared only several minutes later, his skin covered in a sheen of sweat from exertion. Ringo smiled at him drunkenly, stumbling up from his seat and banging into the table which knocked a few empty glasses over.

"Ready to go?" Ringo asked "You're sober enough to drive, right? Because I am not."

"Sure thing." George pulled Ringo close to his body "I'm bloody knackered, let's just get to bed."

Ringo made a noise of agreement "Lemme just have a piss, then we'll go."

"You don't wanna go in there, trust me." George scoffed, nodding his head towards the toilet "It gets blocked every night, it's dead grotty."

Ringo curled his lip up in disgust "Really? I don't care, I'll just-"

George stopped Ringo from turning away "No, no, really, it's dreadful. I'll just get us home quick, alright?"

There was a strange tone to George's voice, at least Ringo thought so but his senses were considerably dulled from the alcohol. Ringo gave him a quizzical look but allowed himself to be pulled out of the club all the same, his stomach feeling a little sensitive as the car pulled out onto the road.

George was silent, his hands gripping the wheel tightly as he drove. Ringo wasn't quite sure what was awaiting him when they were fully alone back at George's place, but he knew it was something big.