#p5r analysis
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looking at how Goro Akechi became a foil of Akira Kurusu thru their childhood (attachment styles)
(Content Warnings for discussing all the stuff in Akechi's childhood specifically, bad parenting, neglect, mental illness. Take care of urselves)
waking up to the tags @1derpu2 added on another post of mine about Akechi ("#I don't think I could survive in his position") had me thinking of a 15-16 year old Akechi, and how survival even feels to him.
Because arguably Akechi has been in survival mode since he was born. Even with a mother doing her best to provide, poverty fundamentally rewrites the brain especially at such a young age−
(Tangent: Akechi's dessert blog actually reminds me of Brennan Lee Mulligan during the d20 Misfits & Magic actual play discussing his character [Evan Kelmp, an unhoused orphaned kid] ordering from desserts at restaurants in order to maximize caloric intake for his money bc stuff on the dessert menu actually tends to contain the most calories– ANYWAYS)
–and he also can feel the underlying tension in how his mother is treated, how he himself is treated, how there is no support network for them. I can imagine that's part of the lure of an ensemble kid's show like Featherman: reliable companions who take your hand rather than slapping it away.
I've done a lot of reading into attachment styles and attachment trauma (bc it's interesting and also haha ;] trauma) and it is a really cool lens to view the differences between our two Wild Cards Akechi and Akira.
adding a reblog with an attachment theory rundown! actual discussion of akechu attachment stuff below cut
There is no better fit for Akechi than a Disorganized Attachment style after finding his sole caregiver and financial (his mother) dead by her own hand after years of her focus being split by the work she needed to do for them to afford survival, before being passed around by distant relatives who viewed him with contempt, if they acknowledged him at all.
The world treated him and his mother like vermin, so of course no one else is trustworthy, of course the people who take advantage are evil. Of course everyone takes advantage. Just like his father, who is the root of this whole horrible thing (the thing being Goro's life, the thing being Goro)
His mother left him violently, voluntarily (from his pov, suicide & mental illness are complicated), so he must be someone repulsive. Incapable of being loved. If he wants others to love him, and he must in order to get close enough to his father to kill, then he must be anything other than himself.
One of the symptoms of disorganized attachment and attachment trauma is the inability to regulate emotions, leading those with it to feel things with an intensity they can't control, soothe, or explain that can fluctuate between emotions rapidly.
And doesn't that markedly fit with a kid who has awoken such disparate personas that are both him? His entire relationship with the world (there must be justice but there is no such thing as justice) and his inner psyche does explain why he brings up Hegel. If you have both Loki and Robin Hood inside you, thesis and antithesis, then isn't it a comfort to know their existence somehow makes sense? That you are synthesis rather than just chaos and pain.
Meanwhile, from the little we hear about Akira's parents and how Persona 5 frames the adults around him, the Avoidant attachment style fits best. He is fiercely independent, with such a strong sense of identity despite with the masks he wears for others that he has the true Wild Card ability. He stands his ground with his morals, even when everyone around him is telling him his life would be easier if he gave up.
He has a strong internal moral center because he was never attached enough to his caregivers that they'd be able to influence his cognitive assimilation. Why trust someone's moral judgment when you can't even trust them with your vulnerability?
This is why Akira and Akechi are so fascinating as foils, as rivals, and as people who know each other better than anyone else could. Akechi walks around as a fake, appealing version of himself that Akira sees through clearly. And Akira likes the bitter, vicious, angry version of Akechi because it's honest. That is the underlying intensity of people he knows is hidden behind the masks adults are convinced are their faces. (Where's your rage? RISE RISE RISE)
Akira and Akechi match so well not because they have a hidden ugliness, but because they view the pleasant masks people wear to excuse or ignore injustice as what are truly ugly. And their difference lies in Akira's belief that there is good in people while Akechi's upbringing has him convinced that humanity is rotten to its roots.
And Akechi wants Akira's beating, caring heart between his teeth because there is still a lonely little child in his own chest who loves Featherman and just wanted a better life for his mom. And who won't fucking die, no matter how Akechi tears the world apart to match his perception of it.
Akechi has spent years trying to kill his heart, which has done nothing but soaked his masks in his own blood.
Akira looks Akechi in the eyes, straight through those masks, and steals his heart from off the chopping block. And he keeps it close even as Akechi turns the blade on him in a rage borne of fear.
They're gay as hell thanks for coming to my ted talk. might improve after work
#persona 5 royal#goro akechi#akira kurusu#p5r analysis#harp rambles#harp personas all night#long post#cw sui mention#cw child abuse mention#akeshu#shuake#akeshuake#persona 5 spoilers#whoops forgor that one
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I'm not sure if I believe the "Wakaba Isshiki did unethical experiments" theory in the fandom, but I do think this is the biggest proof of it in-game:
Because how the hell would she know that?
The first explanation is that she did experiments by sending people into palaces and then testing what happens to them if the palace collapses. Which is messed up for obvious reasons.
The second explanation is that she did NOT test it, meaning she was just making shit up. Which is funny but also would make her a terrible scientist. This explanation is less believable because everything else about her research is too accurate.
There's also a theory that Wakaba did unethical experiments on Akechi specifically. I'm not sure I believe that, since the evidence for it is pretty shallow (like the featherman game scientist experimenting on grey pigeon). But this scene is once again the biggest argument you could make for that theory. The researcher in the image above refers to palaces by their correct term 'palaces', which they say was based on Wakaba's research. But that's only something you would know with firsthand experience of the metaverse. And the only person they know who could access the metaverse was Akechi (that we know of, but i dont think Shido would rely only on Akechi if there were other options).
So yeah this scene is very sus. It's most likely the writers didn't think too deep about the implications. There's no way they wanted Futaba's mom to be sketchy, right? But even if it's not intentional, the scenes and their implications still exist. So in conclusion those theories make sense, I get it, and I don't blame anyone for headcanoning them and having fun. And tbh anyone involved with cognitive psience was portrayed as some degree of unethical (maruki for example), maybe this is just on-brand
#i really wish the game explained what the cognitive psience research thing was like more#like WHO are those people following joker at the end of the game. and WHO are those men escorting akechi in the end credits#shuake always matching because theyre both being stalked by men in suits for some unexplained reason#also about that featherman game#we all know grey pigeon is supposed to be akechi#but personally i dont think the scientist in that game is wakaba. thematically it feels more like shido#but regardless the game implies some stuff that akechi went through#either he was experimented on by cognitive pscientists (if you take the game literally)#or it's supposed to be a metaphor for the grooming shido did to him. endangering his life and controlling him with promises and praise#uggghggh thats so awful. someone pls just let the boy be happy#my post#persona 5#persona 5 royal#wakaba isshiki#futaba sakura#goro akechi#p5r wakaba#p5r futaba#p5r akechi#shido masayoshi#phantom thieves#p5r shido#p5r analysis#p5r meta#persona 5 meta#p5r#shuake#tagged shuake because i mentioned them in the tags even if the post itself isnt rlly about them
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Something a lot of people mistakenly believe is that Akechi enjoys the work he does for Shido and that he takes the orders to kill without any resentment or regret. These text messages shed some light on the way he thinks and show that this is not actually the case. Unfortunately, these texts are entirely missable if you finish the treasure route to Sae's Palace too early. As a result, this crucial characterization is often overlooked and people take what they know about characters like Persona 4's culprit and Persona 3's traitor and assume that Akechi is playing it straight.
But even without these obscure texts, it's not like the game is subtle about this. Akechi's lack of freedom and agency is a recurring aspect of his character that people will often cast aside because it's much easier to boil him down to "crazy serial killer" than actually look at the complexity of his situation and his own victimhood.
Throughout his Royal confidant, Akechi's perfectly crafted mask cracks several times. Moments like this show him offering an out, even if he's MUCH happier if you don't consider it.
He doesn't WANT Joker to change. As much as he claims to hate Joker, he admires his convictions. Wishes he had what Joker had. Wishes he could have been more like him. See: the Gun About rank up where he mentions how he used to want to be a hero of justice.
The creepy smiles and shit you see on 11/20 and in parts of the engine room are another mask Akechi wears. Akechi ALWAYS swaps out his masks to best serve his situation. Yet he still tells Shido not to kill the thieves, that Morgana is just a cat, and is perfectly content to leave them alone, and after his fight in the engine room, when the mask literally breaks...
We see his regrets on full display. He isn't proud. He's done making excuses. All those little times the mask broke in the Royal confidant were ways to set up this moment. He genuinely cares SO much about Joker, but that caring was dangerous to his objectives, so he HAD to hate him. He HAD to want to kill him to achieve his objective, and yet...
He still cares. He's putting out spikes in third sem, no doubt because he suspects his own fate should they destroy Maruki's world, but...
#goro akechi#persona#persona 5#p5#p5r#p5 joker#ren amamiya#akira kurusu#character analysis#meta#akechi goro#p5 akechi#p5r spoilers#persona 5 spoilers
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The claim that "shuake wouldn't work out because Akechi tried to kill Joker" is funny to me because Joker canonically prefers "just everyday Akechi" over detective prince Akechi.
We have proof of Joker's preference in the third semester. Okumura was revived as a loving father in accordance to Haru's wishes and Akechi was revived as his maniacal, violent self in accordance to Joker's wishes.
Joker could have revived Akechi to be any iteration of kind and friendly but he didn't. Instead, he wanted Akechi to have the same personality as his black mask self, the same personality of the man who attempted to kill him. Joker canonically prefers Akechi's true personality, whether the player agrees with him or not.
#persona 5 royal#persona 5#shuake#akeshu#p5r#p5#goro akechi#akira kurusu#ren amamiya#my post#p5r textposts#p5r meta posts#persona 5 meta#meta analysis
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Uhhh does anyone else wanna discuss ryuji the hotheaded vulgar boy who acts before he thinks and always yells at authority being the immediate person to keep Makoto from getting into fights when they first go to Kaneshiro’s palace or am I the only person going crazy abt it
Like wdym the guy who usually charges in headfirst no question no hesitation is the person keeping her from getting into fights that she pre-awakening would not be able to handle. Wdym he’s staying level headed for her safety. Wdym he’s the first to get mad and lash out at unfair authority or to enjoy fighting Shadows but knows to pick his battles to preserve someone else’s safety over his own. Especially when this is before they start knowing and trusting each other so he’s just doing it for her because he’d do it for anyone. Does anyone else hear this
#persona 5#p5#persona 5 royal#p5r#ryuji sakamoto#makoto niijima#they are everything to me your honour#persona brainrot real#p5 analysis
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The Saddest Tragedy of 2/2; Damned Regardless of Choice
Wasn't sure if anyone else already talked about this, but after going through the Persona 5 Royal Artbook a while back, and again recently... Something about the whole situation just really struck with me.
Obviously, spoiler warnings ahead for Persona 5 Royal, specifically Third Semester's Februrary 2nd.
So, unsurprisingly, I'm referring to Maruki's Deal.
It's a common interpretation that Akechi's 100% gung-ho against it.
But there's two separate moments that show a rare bit of... Wavering in his resolve.
The first is the Phantom Thieves meeting in Maruki's office with Lavenza:
Out of all of the Phantom Thieves, the only one to play devil's advocate and remind the group that Maruki's actions benefit them too is... Akechi, of all people. Not Joker, not Makoto, not Lavenza or anyone else.
It's solely Akechi who brings that fact up.
In the same meeting, beforehand he was very upfront and crass about how manipulative Maruki was being, and how the man played the other thieves like a fiddle...
And yet he says this in spite of all that.
There was no reason or prompting for him to, and Ryuji even rejects him politely afterwards too.
So surely this was just an off-line of simple pragmatism, right?
Well, here comes moment number 2, in one of the optional Jazz Jin hangouts you can get with him:
He plays it off as some idle food for thought with no deeper meaning, but... It's Akechi. He usually doesn't just say things just to say them.
There's always a hidden meaning to his words.
It's pretty obvious he's referencing his space in the Phantom Thieves, a group that's civil with him but doesn't particularly have any inclination to be friends with him... But it does beg a question...
Is he happy? Now that he's no longer being controlled by Shido, or burdened by a lifelong revenge?
By the sheer existence of this conversation at all, directed only towards Joker and in a place that he's comfortable in (second to Leblanc) it's pretty safe to say he is, but has reservations about it (i.e. 'If their happiness hinges on the group's unhappiness.')
Now where does the artbook come in? Well, inside the P5R artbook, there's a handful of interviews that expand on some parts of the Royal exclusive content.
What was the one bit that stuck with me?
(Thanks to VeskScans on Twitter for the high-quality scans of the artbook: https://x.com/VeskScans)
Per fan-translation:
Creator's Comment: "When I think about how Akechi's wish is to play chess with the protagonist after school, I want to tell him 'You like the protagonist after all, don't you?'"
Akechi's Wish.
He has a wish that Maruki actually does grant him, and it's to essentially be friends with Joker. It's mutual to Joker's own wish to be friends with him.
So add up the context of all three, and it paints a very depressing picture already:
Akechi is genuinely happy for once in his life, but doesn't think he deserves it at the cost of everyone else's. It runs opposite to his own sense of Justice, and his negative views on himself as a "cursed child," and that fuels him to keep denying it.
So with him being split between the two sentiments... It's unsurprising that he would rely heavily on Joker to make the ultimate decision; Whether to accept, or to deny. Because he himself can't, and Maruki knows full well of that.
Sure, he keeps pushing Joker to deny Maruki... But why?
Is it because what Maruki's doing is wrong, and he needs to be stopped? Is it the closest thing to a punishment for all of his actions, which has been constantly denied to him up to this point? Is it the closest thing to a confirmation that he's undeserving of such happiness, especially with how much blood is on his hands?
Who knows.
So how does any of this tie into Maruki's Deal on 2/2? Isn't Rejecting a false reality the obvious choice here?
Well... It's simple.
You're not really picking between a true reality and a false one.
You're picking between:
The acknowledgement of Akechi's growth (Hereward), the righteousness he carries as The Justice arcana, and his freedom from being under someone else's control his whole life.
And this:
Think about it. Maruki gives you multiple opportunities to accept his reality, and they become increasingly personal to Joker with each one.
First is the happiness of the general public.
Second it's the happiness of the other Phantom Thieves, especially Sumire.
Then finally, it's the happiness of both Joker and Akechi.
If the first two couldn't sway Joker's decision, why would the third?
Because you want Akechi to be happy and no longer suffering. You're the one in control of making that decision as the player, remember?
And both he and Joker are also fully aware of that, given how they look back at you in the "Accept" ending.
Not to mention in spite of how he reverts back to his "Detective Prince" mannerisms, almost as if he was a different person entirely... We never actually get any indication that he goes off to fight Maruki alone, or try to fix everything himself, do we?
Sure, he says "... Well. I have your answer. There's nothing left I can say. Our deal's off."
But what can he say? Once again, you've exceeded his expectations.
And once again, he's left as speechless as his "you really are..." moments.
You chose him over a "true reality." You told him to his face that he matters, you accept him as he is in spite of everything he's done, and you want to keep spending time with him as equals. As friends.
There's no anger, betrayal, shock, or even hurt in his voice. Just quiet acceptance because after all they've gone through together, he knows Joker wouldn't lie about that.
It's a truth he has to accept, even if it conflicts with his image of himself. He's wanted by someone else, for the first time in his life.
Of course he has no need for a deal anymore. They were always the closest things he was willing to get to a friendship, without establishing a close tie that could potentially hurt him in the end.
Why would he need one when you chose your bond over all else?
You proved to his face that it's not just some temporary truce with mutual benefits. It's a genuine bond for both parties, not just to him.
... It's just a shame that something you've done with him up to this point with genuine intent has been perversed into a means to sway both boys and you into compliance.
Ultimately though... You're the one stuck between two choices for him:
Forsake Akechi's happiness, and finally being wanted for who he is and not whatever pleasant image or service he can provide.
Forsake his freedom, and all the growth and accountability he's accumulated thus far from his own sins.
This teenage boy is damned regardless of the decision you make. All because a man with a Jehova complex noticed that he matters to Joker (and by extension you as the player), and uses him as an ultimatum to get Joker (and you) to comply.
All because said man is well-aware that Akechi's actual fate is vague. Did he live? Did he die? Who knows, neither he or Akechi actually confirm it. They just dance around the subject and leave the assumption up to you. But he'll take full advantage of the vagueness to justify his actions to you, and show why his goals and yours are "truly in alignment."
And the worst part is that Maruki's doing this with a genuine intent to make his life happier afterwards, much like youself. It's not out of malice, or a sick sense of delight, or with the airs of playing god.
He's distorted. He's a man with good intentions that have become so distorted that he inadvertently perverses the very desire to do good for the world.
And just like Shido, and Yaldaboath, before him...
Akechi's the number one casualty.
You're just forced to decide which part of him the gun is aimed at this time.
Because this boy can't have both. It's one or the other.
#persona 5#p5#p5r#persona#persona 5 royal#goro akechi#p5 joker#akira kurusu#ren amamiya#takuto maruki#rambles#Moni Rambles#ramblings#character analysis#angst#gaming#video games
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Ok, I think I have a pretty good idea of why a lot of Akechi's dialogue is... like that.
So, even before his confidant truly started, I noticed that he has a real knack for directing the flow of a conversation. This is very fitting for someone who is both a detective and skilled at interviews - when there is a topic and a goal, Akechi is in his element.
All this to say, he's actually kind of controlling when it comes to conversational flow. He probes for information, or turns the conversation around to a particular topic, usually the Phantom Thieves. He manages to take a few of Joker's dialogue options and spin them so they sound mildly incriminating in the context he's placed them in - the only way to truly get around this is to pick answers that feign indifference, and even then, that's more than a bit telling. He's clearly very good at this kind of thing.
But then, we get conversations where either Joker does something he didn't expect, or else he doesn't have a particular goal in mind - and the conversation stutters. In the first instance, Joker does something (a particularly egregious example is putting his glasses on him and fluffing his hair in rank 3) which both leaves him wrong-footed and no longer in perfect control of the situation. He just kind of... freezes, for awhile. It's hilarious. He has no idea how to respond.
He picks up control again in the phone call afterwards, having chosen to play into it, turning this "fooling the crowds" into a kind of game or secret between them. Nice save.
But in instances where there isn't an obvious topic and the goal is somewhat nebulous, for instance, that one Leblanc scene, it becomes pretty apparent that Akechi doesn't have the right "script" to go off of. Again, it's particularly notable in that scene, because I'm fairly sure he didn't have any specific reason to be at Leblanc, other than him looking for a quiet spot now that public opinion has turned on him. And because there isn't anything specific he's digging for, he kind of just ends up throwing things at the wall to see what will stick. Probing for any kind of recognizable reaction that he can jump on and work with, and that just doesn't really happen in this scene.
He references Sae, a woman in a respectable position, to Sojiro, but instead of that netting a welcome, it earns his ire, given Sae's recent actions against him. He then tries to greet Joker, his... rival? friend? enemy? person who at least seems to somewhat enjoy spending time with him? But Joker's responses are somewhat short, and Akechi practically wilts. He tries to commiserate by oversharing. He tries to involve Futaba and reaches out for the only topic of interest he can think of around "young people". He compliments the coffee. He compliments Joker. He tries to invoke that connection between them. None of it is really sticking, nor does it serve as a jumping off point for him to steer the conversation, or even really start one.
So, he basically just ends up having a one-sided chat with himself and then leaves. Hilarious. Also a little sad, if I'm being honest. It's really giving "guy with no friends who only knows how to speak to adults" energy. If there's no specific purpose to the exchange, or he is not in control of its direction, he seems to be kind of out of his depth. He succeeds only in being a little awkward and confusing, more than anything.
#quick note! i still have not finished the game! please avoid spoilers also i am aware i could be very wrong here. pls be kind if i am yeah?#of course#I am going from an in-universe standpoint for fun.#I am positive it's because writers needed to shoehorn in information and it ended up making the flow of conversation awkward as a result#but i digress#i still think there's merit to this reading though because even outside of flow his word choices and some of the kind of#intense things that he'll say#really do come across as 'guy who doesn't know how to talk to people and is basically just pushing for a reaction he can work with'#anyways. just my random thoughts again#i still don't get this dude but#pretty sure he's a control freak. pretty sure he's also lonely. bad combination.#storyrambles#story plays persona 5#p5r#i think this counts as analysis. it got a bit longer than i was expecting ->#call me ace detective the way i am ace. and also a detective#analysis tag becomes kind of funny when it's about this character in particular haha#goro akechi
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Thoughts about Akechi because he's infected my brain
We really never see the "real akechi" in Persona 5 or even in Royal, I think. That's not to say there aren't honest moments and real emotions, but every moment we have with Akechi is him trying to get us to serve some greater goal of his. In vanilla that goal is obvious: he wants to get close to you to further his vengeance on Masayoshi Shido. In the third semester that goal is less obvious but I'd say he wants you to think he's an irredeemable monster and that you shouldn't care about him so you reject Maruki's deal. Third semester is slightly more honest with Akechi- his convictions and feelings are all real, but he portrays them in whatever way will get you to do what he wants while keeping you at an arm's distance.
I think the only moment in the whole game where Akechi isn't putting up some sort of mask is after you beat him in the engine room. Before he's kinda having a big feelings moment so while it's honest, it's an extreme. After? He has no more reason to act, he just has his one request: destroy Masayoshi Shido in his stead. And you do, for the last request of the boy you never really got to know.
So who is the real Akechi? I don't think Akechi knows himself, I think he's lived so many years with a mask as Shido's Assassin or the Detective Prince or a pleasant boy that he doesn't know which is real. I don't think we'll ever see the real Akechi, not in anything mainline, both because they better not be making another Persona 5 and because there is no 'real' Akechi without the masks, without the deception. His character is like Joker's, he's constantly tailoring himself to be what he needs to be because that's the only way a bastard child like himself can survive. It's why I like wildcard Akechi fics so much, because he's just as malleable as Joker. They're rivals, after all.
#persona 5 protagonist#goro akechi#persona 5#persona 5 royal#p5#p5r#character analysis#just my thoughts yk#don't take it as canon
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🔍 Zoe's Persona Attribute Analysis: 🔍 (Repost from Twitter)
My assessment of what different persona attributes say about the characters and character arcs of the user:
#I promised i would post this to tumblr after i deleted twitter and never did lmfao#my p5 analysis of attributes#that I think too much on lmfao#persona 5#p5r#persona 5 royal#things i think about all the time#anyways standard this is my opinions/observation/brainrotting ideas
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what would you think of akechi n yusuke being friends lovers or even anything beyond the crumby bits of interaction they have if youre willing to think about it
they are so the theater kids
maybe they could've been good friends ...
the fact they both had give their everything to someone else, their "father", given nothing in return and left behind for power, but Yusuke was able to escape it and find his place with the Phantom Thieves and Akechi couldn't is just so yeah
but madarame did care for yusuke, akechi can't say the same for his father
maybe if it happened just a few years earlier, things would've turned out different...
#sorry lol#i love analysis of media i love#i could probably write an essay on the parallels of akechi and the rest of the phantom thieves#art#drawing#artists on tumblr#artwork#doodle#persona 5#p5#persona 5 royal#p5r#yusuke kitagawa#p5 yusuke#goro akechi#p5 akechi#persona 5 akechi#persona 5 yusuke#persona 5 fanart#persona 5 spoilers
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dude I feel so lame sometimes cause I don't think that Goro Aketchi is that interesting of a character compared to others but he's everywhere like an invasive termite
#i want to kick youske's ass (positive)#i want to kick goro's ass (malicious)#digit's p5r tag#dude for real for real for real like Am I just bad at character analysis or whatever because I feel like I'm going crazy
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So.... Has anyone ever reached a realization that Kasumi's spirit appearing as the main basis for Cendrillon returning might actually symbolize her being more of Sumi's true fairy godmother character in her story as opposed to Maruki who was a more twisted version of that trope?
Like think about it for a sec... And this is coming from someone who adored the fairytale (Disney version especially) when they were little so... In any version, Cinderella's main traits are her selflessness and kindness along with bravery considering that despite the abuse she went through, she still stays kind and true to herself and does not let the abuse affect that. That's part of what makes her a rebel, albeit an unconventional kind.
Sumi has those traits deep down (showcased by the lead up to her false awakening which she spoke more as Sumire since as I've mentioned before, her ultimate breaking point was more about hurting and letting her loved ones like Maruki and Joker down. She was more concerned about them as opposed thinking about herself or the scholarship) but the biggest problem was that she wasn't being true to herself and acted selfishly, even preferring to run away from her problems instead.
The fairy godmother character shows up when Cinderella was nearing her lowest point. It was even sometimes interpreted that the godmother represents Cinderella being rewarded for her unending kindness and unselfishness, leading to her happy ending.
When Maruki helped like so, it made things worse for her but when Kasumi's spirit showed up... It made things better for her and helped kickstart her own happily ever after. Just like the actual fairy godmother!
Starting with bringing her Persona back and this was when Sumire regained the other traits she was starting to lack/lose and became more like Cinderella herself. She became brave enough to stand on her own feet and stop running, she shows more of her kindness to others and even Maruki despite what he did, and she became selfless by deciding to mourn and honor her sister properly by moving forward and not basically live as her for her own selfish reasons as that's what Kasumi would have actually wanted her to do.
In a sense, Maruki was unwittingly rewarding her selfish desires and enabling it. ("Accept this contract... The spell cast upon you.")
Kasumi's spirit on the other hand was rewarding her for being honest and not running anymore. ("Such tenacity... It seems to fit you better than ever before...")
#persona 5#p5#persona 5 royal#p5r#p5r spoilers#starchild rambles#rambles#ramblings#character analysis#analysis#cinderella#cendrillon#sumire yoshizawa#kasumi yoshizawa#I was cooking a lot with this on Discord so I had to post it#Kasumi is the true fairy godmother in Sumi's story#no hate towards Maruki but his way was... Not good. Terrible even.#Also don't use this to spread Maruki hate since that was NOT the point at all#i will block on sight#this is a Sumi AND Maruki enjoying blog thank you very much!
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Shuake and Jundori are basically the same ship
List of similarities between Joker/Akechi and Junpei/Chidori:
Ship is between a chill guy and an assassin
Characters share the same persona affinity (Arsene and Loki both use curse, Hermes and Medea both use fire)
Assassin's outfit colors are mainly white and red (specifically akechi's robin hood outfit)
Assassin's persona may hurt them (Loki has call of chaos and Medea attacks Chidori)
Assassin deceives the chill guy into thinking they're normal to get info on the group he's part of
Assassin betrays and kidnaps the chill guy + separates him from his friend group because he's the leader (Junpei was lying about being the leader but Chidori believed it)
Friend group is only cordial with the assassin at best but doesn't wish harm on them
Chill guy is the only one who truly connects with the assassin
Assassin insists they dont care about the chill guy but deep down they do
While responsible for their own actions, the assassin is still being manipulated by someone close to them
Revealed that the assassin's abilities were being exploited by the families of both games' wealthy Empress Arcana (Okumura used Akechi via Shido to assassinate enemies, Kirijo group used Chidori as a child experiment)
In late November, the assassin has a 1-vs-many fight against the chill guy and his friends
After you beat the assassin, the ones manipulating them appear and reveal they're willing to discard the assassin for being weak
The manipulators threaten to shoot the chill guy instead
Assassin sacrifices themself for the chill guy during the shooting
Chill guy's greatest wish was to be with the assassin and losing them challenges their resolve to fight (Joker may or may not fold on 2/2 but Junpei gets his resolve back as part of the plot)
Toxic doomed trope
If Royal and Reload (because thats what I played):
14. Chill guy and assassin have a special attack (showtime and theurgy)
15. Assassin died permanently in the original version of the games, but they can be saved in future remakes (if you spent enough time with them and made the right choices in-game)
I think that's it? But if anyone points out more I will edit this and add them
#i love both these ships so much so i couldnt help but notice the similarities#very interesting that despite being nearly identical jundori is universally-loved while shuake is considered controversial#we all know why (straight vs gay) but yknow. still pointing it out#although despite being controversial shuake is still probably the most popular of the persona ships? at least on ao3#and thats what rlly matters#if the fandom dont got them then at least their boyfriends do. joker and junpei come get ur dubiously-dead lover!#im going to make a post comparing akechi and chidori one day. theyre super similar it's crazy lol#my post#persona 5#persona 5 royal#p5#p5r#persona memes#persona 3#persona 3 reload#p3#p3r#shuake#jundori#goro akechi#akira kurusu#junpei iori#chidori yoshino#p5r akechi#p5r akira#p3 junpei#p3 chidori#p5r analysis#p3 analysis
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A while ago, I made a post going into parts of the missable Sae Palace arc text messages, such as these:
However, that post neglected to include a full transcript. I have since transcribed all of these texts, which occur on 10/30, 11/3, 11/7, and 11/11. You must not infiltrate Sae's Palace until after these dates in order to get these.
Transcripts below the cut! Crossposted to the P5 sub.
The first of these texts takes place on 10/30. You will miss this text if you infiltrate the Palace on the first available day.
--
Ryuji: Yo, Akechi.
Akechi: What is it?
Ryuji: You got any idea who the true culprit might be?
Futaba: Oh yeah! You said you saw a masked guy, right?
Haru: I wanted to ask about that too.
Futaba: Did you really see him? The masked guy's gotta be the true culprit, right?
Akechi: If this so-called true culprit is acting alone, then there can be no mistake about it.
Futaba: I see.
Yusuke: The next question is, who is that masked man?
Akechi: Unfortunately, I do not know that much.
Futaba: Ugh, you're useless.
Akechi: That is quite harsh.
Futaba: Aw, you're making me blush!
Ann: That wasn't a compliment...
Akechi: At this point, I have yet to even grasp any clues. But once this is dealt with, I will surely capture him. I promise you that.
We'll be counting on you.
Akechi: Perfect. Leave it to me. It may sound somewhat odd for me to say this, but I am an exceptional detective. I assure you, I will catch this culprit. Look forward to it.
Can you do it?
Akechi: Hm? Do you not trust me?
[The rest plays out the same as the other option.]
--
What's funny about this exchange is how the Thieves know Akechi's deal and are just playing along. It makes some of the reactions (especially from Haru and Futaba) read as comically passive aggressive. However, the more interesting texts start coming on 11/03, 11/07, and 11/11.
Starting with 11/03.
--
Ryuji: Goddamit. People're acting like we were the ones who killed 'em.
Yusuke: I have even heard them say we are assassins hired to deal with psychotic breakdown victims.
Ann: Ugh, that's obviously not what we're trying to do.
Akechi: This must be part of the plan to shift blame onto the Phantom Thieves. After all, the true culprit is the one killing the people on that ranking list.
This is unforgivable
Akechi: Indeed. I have no intentions of letting this slide.
This is total BS
Akechi: But that is the truth for the general public at the moment.
[Both lead to...]
Futaba: Man, this culprit guy really won't let up. I don't remember ever doing anything that'd make someone hate us THIS much.
Haru: He used my father as well...
Akechi: I cannot fathom what his motive may be... We will just have to capture and interrogate him.
Makoto: But before that, we need to change my sister's heart. That's our first step toward stopping him.
Akechi: I must agree. The true culprit will be caught, but before that we must deal with Sae-san. If ranking is being taken into consideration, perhaps I will be targeted too... Just kidding.
--
This tells us that Shido is deliberately having Akechi target high ranking targets on the PhanSite in order to terrify the public with abhorrent acts of violence, much like he did in April. It's a way to make people feel scared and more reliant on Shido to be the change that Japan needs. But if you secure the treasure as quickly as possible, you will miss this added information that really deepens how cruel he truly is by ordering hits just to paint a convenient narrative.
And this is definitely Shido's idea, because on 11/7 we get this gem...
--
Haru: Do you think the culprit could be someone at our school?
Yusuke: That seems somewhat sudden.
Haru: I mean, didn't they find a calling card in Principal Kobayakawa's office? I thought you had suggested that idea yourself, Yusuke.
Yusuke: That was just a generalization.
Haru: But if Mako-chan noticed what was going on with you guys, somebody else might have too.
Ann: So you think that "somebody else" is trying to frame us? What's gotten into you so suddenly?
Haru: Nothing has gotten into me. I just think there's a chance the culprit is related to Shujin...
You might be right. / There's no way.
[Both get the same response:]
Yusuke: What is all of this about? It's too soon to be jumping to conclusions like this.
Haru: Well, I was hoping to hear a professional opinion on the matter... What are your thoughts, Akechi-kun?
Akechi: The possibility is not zero, but it does seem a bit unlikely.
Haru: Why do you ask?
Akechi: A normal person would never do such a thing. They would have no reason to callously murder your principal.
Haru: And what if they weren't normal?
Akechi: Are you implying they kill for the sheer pleasure of it?
Haru: No, not like that. What I mean is, you need certain special abilities to navigate through that world, yes?
Akechi: Ah, so you're saying the culprit is a Persona-user.
Haru: Yes.
Akehci: I see... How perceptive. Truthfully, I was considering that possibility myself. But it is difficult to think they have ties to Shujin Academy.
Haru: Why?
Akechi: There would be no motive for them to carry out such a cruel plot. Clearly our culprit is acting behind the scenes to accomplish some grand objective. He likely has accomplices. It is even possible that he is being controlled by someone.
Makoto: Controlled? By whom?
Akechi: If I knew that, I do not think we would be in this much trouble.
Haru: I see... So even someone like you doesn't know, Akechi-kun.
Futaba: Looks like our genius detective's not so much of a genius after all.
Akechi: Haha, harsh as always. If there is one thing I know, it is that the culprit behind all of this is extremely shrewd. But don't worry. I will catch him, no matter what it takes.
I'm looking forward to that. / I wonder if you can do it.
Akechi: More importantly, we need to focus on changing Sae-san's heart for the time being. If we cannot do that, everything we have done will be for naught. We absolutely must succeed here.
--
There is so much to unpack here. By far, it's my favorite of these texts because of the light it sheds on Akechi's motivations and intentions. First, we have Haru pressing the subject. She clearly wants to squeeze answers out of Akechi. She's subtly putting him on the spot because she knows...
But Akechi lets slip that no, actually, he doesn't do this for pleasure. That actually, he is being controlled and that the true mastermind is someone shrewd that he intends to take down. Amidst all of Akechi's lies and platitudes during this part of the story, we see a crack in his perfectly prepared mask. In a way, this is the most honest we've seen Akechi outside of his Royal confidant and on 8/28 and 9/3. In a way, he's sharing little slivers of himself with the rest of the team (either begrudgingly or for reasons he doesn't fully understand) the way he already has with Joker.
And it actually explains a few things that happen later. Namely, the way he downplays the need to kill the other Phantom Thieves until after the election (keep in mind, he does intend to knock Shido down from his pedestal) as well as treating Morgana as "just a cat." Obviously, this doesn't absolve Akechi of his guilt, but it does make it clear that he isn't as remorseless as a lot of people believe, even if no amount of sunk cost fallacy is gonna undo the damage he's done.
Hell, when combined with his lamentation that he didn't meet Joker years ago in the engine room and his reaction to Morgana explaining changes of heart, these texts further solidify that his feelings toward both Joker and the Thieves are extremely complex and absurdly messy.
Plus we get Haru and Futaba both taking shots at him, which is fun and also extremely deserved. :p
Moving on, there's one final missable November text on 11/11. It goes as follows:
--
Akechi: So, about the investigation... It seems they have no evidence that can truly be called as such.
Ryuji: Well duh.
Akechi: However, it seems they have no intentions of changing their plans.
Ann: They're going to investigate at both Shujin Academy and Leblanc, right?
Akechi: Indeed.
Makoto: Hm. I can understand Shujin... But why Leblanc?
Akechi: The key is Wakaba Isshiki.
Futaba: Is it cause of my mom's research?
Akechi: Correct. Her study of cognitive psience is closely connected to this case. Of that, there can be no doubt.
Futaba: Then this guy's really the mastermind behind all of this?
Akechi: That would be the case. There can be no mistake... The one who erased cognitive psience from this world is surely the culprit behind everything.
Makoto: And getting rid of the research was the only way they could use its powers?
Akechi: How perceptive of you. Yes, that is the only logical conclusion. Both Sae-san and I were searching for clues about that research. But just as we were about to deepen our investigation, this commotion began. And to make things even more troublesome... There was only one person with strong connections to both Shujin Academy and Leblanc. And that person turned out to be the leader of the Phantom Thieves.
Yusuke: So the culprit had calculated all of this in advance?
Akechi: Heavens no. That would be impossible. This was a miracle created by the coinciding of multiple chance situations.
Ryuji: Dude, you hear that? He says you got miraculously bad luck. Don't that make you feel good?
I'm so lucky.
Ryuji: Y'know, shitty luck is still luck.
That's not funny.
Ryuji: C'mon, you gotta be able to laugh it off at this point.
Haru: Yes, your luck really is impressive.
Akechi: At any rate, that's the current state of things. And that's why we must obstruct the investigation at all costs.
Makoto: Yes, that's our intention.
--
Once again, we have Akechi laying it on thick that Shido is the one behind everything, as he was the one who ordered the hit on Wakaba, stole her research, and had his own research team develop it further. And keep in mind, Shido's own words, first on 11/21...
"Those who get in the way must be eliminated at times—that's the correct way to use the Metaverse."
And later, his Shadow states, "Moreover, it was thanks to me that Akechi was able to properly use his power to begin with."
So we know that even the idea of inducing mental shutdowns came from him, even if Akechi offered his Metaverse abilities as part of his stupid revenge plan.
What this shows is Akechi wants to hint that there is this bigger puppet master, even if he's going to betray the Thieves, and this is actually really consistent with his Royal confidant. In Rank 7, he uses a billiard games as a metaphor for the upcoming betrayal kill and gives Joker an out, even if he's much happier if you assert your rivalry instead. This makes his warnings about the connections to Wakaba carry a very similar feeling, and since these texts were in Vanilla, it's likely that the Royal confidant built on this foundation.
But then there's the fact that the Thieves are fully in the know that Akechi is going to betray them, so it recontextualizes all these texts where they are genuinely trying to squeeze as much info out of him as they can and likely having to restrain themselves hard (especially Futaba and Haru).
And all of this you will never see unless you delay the infiltration until 11/12. So, the next time you play Persona 5 Royal, it might be worthwhile to delay Sae's Palace to see these in-game! They're really cool and it's a shame they aren't scripted events.
#persona 5#goro akechi#akechi goro#p5 akechi#phantom thieves#haru okumura#futaba sakura#character analysis#p5 meta#persona 5 royal#p5r#akechi#masayoshi shido
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Foreshadowing and symbolism in Persona 5 Royal - Maruki and the cat
Maruki's Confidant Rank 4
Maruki: I spotted a kitten that had gotten itself stuck up in a tree. I tried rescuing it since I felt bad for it, but I ended up with the clawing of a lifetime for the effort. I had no idea a cat's claws were so sharp...
Joker: Talk about a reward.
Maruki: Ahaha, that's true. But I was able to rescue the kitten, so all's well that ends well.
The kitten represents the phantom thieves, who didn't want to be saved from the situations they were stuck in. This is where Maruki reveals to the player that he is resolved to rescue others, even if they don't want to be saved — even if they fight him over it.
The Thieves Den Conversation
Maruki: The other day, I saved a cat from a tall tree. I hadn't climbed like that in quite a while.
Sumire: You did? That's so sweet, Dr. Maruki!
Maruki: The thing is, even though I was trying to help, the cat lashed out at me with its claws... And then I fell right out of the tree. It was a bit of a disaster.
Sumire: O-Oh... That does sound rough...
Akechi: You're so naïve. Trying to be a good person only gets you taken advantage of. You'd be a perfect target for scammers.
This time, Maruki says that he fell out of the tree and it was a disaster. This conversation can only be seen after you've completed Maruki's confidant and have unlocked the third semester. Maruki falling out of the tree foreshadows the end of Maruki's boss fight — both end with Maruki falling, unable to save those who had resisted him.
Sumire and Akechi's reactions to the cat story also resemble their feelings in the third semester. Sumire is sympathetic towards Maruki, and Akechi mocks Maruki for trying to save a cat who wants to be left alone.
#persona 5 royal#persona 5#p5#p5r#goro akechi#akira kurusu#ren amamiya#kasumi yoshizawa#sumire yoshizawa#takuto maruki#phantom thieves#my post#meta#persona 5 meta#meta analysis#persona 5 text posts
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do you think akechi ever saw himself in haru, the way they were both seen as disposable tools by their fathers? do you think he struggled to understand how she could have so much resentment being used by her father but still love him and believe that theres good in him. do you think for a moment killing a man who treated his child like that felt cathartic.
#persona 5#goro akechi#persona 5 royal#p5#p5r#persona brainrot real#p5 spoilers#persona 5 spoilers#haru okumura#p5 analysis
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