#orin-and-his-family

[bhaalble]

I think there probably was part of Gortash dreading Melkior actually showing up again. Like oh god it took me like half a decade of psychological manipulation/love bombing/bribes/weird psychosexual power games to get this guy in my pocket the first time. Now I have to do it again while his brain is full of holes and there's a time limit of the eldritch god we enslaved running out of tasks to occupy her.

Then he watches him go so very still on "my favorite assassin" and the first thing out of his mouth is a real soft "I was...your favorite? " and he realizes he actually just gets to deal with a version of Melkior without the defense mechanisms learned from a decade raised with the AutoCannibalism family. All that's left is the desperate need to be adored and the deepseated fear of himself. If he thought he had this guy eating out of the palm of his hand before-

[y-rhywbeth2]

It just occurred to me that there might be a way to make a headcanon to tie in the lore of Orin's dagger (that Bhaal was killing in back alleys in the place where Baldur's Gate would someday stand, despite him predating the existence of alleys in the area) with the lore from Lord of the End of Everything (he's from High Netheril), and also explain what the Undercity is and where it came from.

So High Netheril was composed of enclave cities, which were enchanted to fly. When Karsus and Jergal wrecked the Weave those went smashing straight into the ground, leaving behind only refugees who managed to get out one way or another (Bhaal and Bane apparently amongst them). The empire of Netheril was focused over what is now the Anauroch Desert, but some enclaves floated elsewhere, such as Ythryn, which was situated far North in the Icewind Dale. At least some cities, such as Ythryn and Undrentide, are now subterranean, buried beneath the earth/sand/ice.

Bhaal's mortal life was apparently spent in the flying city that was part of the nation of Rdiuz - if that city was flying over the spot where Baldur's Gate would one day be built, crashed and was buried, was forgotten except for by, say, its former spymaster/government hitman turned god... he would technically have been murdering in the back alleys of a city before the Gate.

There is the question of why Bhaal has a temple in the ruins of a city that died before his ascension, but that wouldn't necessarily stop him sending followers down there to build one/hijack an old temple of Jergal when civilisation kicked off in the area and that smuggling hub that will one day be a major city developed.

So Orin, Durge, and before them, (kind of) Sarevok, are/were living in the long-dead forgotten city of their father and ancestors in this headcanon. Hey, some of those undead haunting the place might be their grandparents! Or great-grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins... fully mortal half-siblings? Step-parents?

[thats-a-lot-of-cortisol]

I've been thinking about names re: durges (and especially Corentin)

I haven't really liked the whole "this character's name is The Dark Urge" because it's honestly...silly to me? A bit? But I saw someone else discussing their durge's backstory today and it got me thinking about the function of names a bit more.

Naming someone "The Dark Urge" is super dehumanizing. And, like, that's the point, of course. But Corentin, even at their most compliant, was always trying to eek out some semblance of individuality or control or rebellion. They were kidnapped brought to the Bhaalists at 15, after all. Even with the cult's (and Bhaal's) efforts, it's difficult to completely rewire someone who's nearly a grown adult, especially one who's fighting it kicking and screaming most of the time.

So while they lose their memories of their family due to the constant trauma, they do manage to hold on to some things. Their refusal to eat bog body stays the entire time, as does their insistence on maintaining a hair care routine (which is when they start braiding Orin's hair, too). But after they break, other aspects of cleanliness they'd managed to hold onto until that point fall to the wayside, and they stop resisting when Savorak, and Fel, and the Bhaalists call them "The Dark Urge" instead of their name. Orin still calls them Corentin for a little bit, but she stops eventually too as she gets more and more restless and insistent on gaining power.

And then they meet Gortash who, despite also being a horrible person, isn't as bad as the people Corentin had been forced to lead. At this point they know what the likely ending of the Absolutist plot is going to be (though they're still in the early stages of the plan) but being able to work so closely with someone who's sincere and, more importantly, isn't going to stab them the moment they turn their back to him, is like breathing in fresh air for the first time in a decade or more (both figuratively and literally). And they dare to hope that there's an actual, true way out of the hell they'd been living in.

So when Gortash eventually asks if The Dark Urge is really their name, they tell him no.

[alibonbonn]

Concepting some cool clothes for me and my frens' druid durges. I think druid durge is such a cool idea! Circle of spores or not. Iridis | Tarlukk | Gylla | Sparrow

[maegalkarven]

This thing with the suggestion of Ulder being just fine with Durge and Wyll dating still nags at me.

Like, they are the Bhaalspawn. For every Abdel Adrian there are ten Orins. They are by default bad news.

Jaheira was Abdel's close friend and companion and her reaction to finding Durge is a Bhaalspawn is to guard them with blades. THIS is the sane reaction.

I rather believe Ulder Ravengard is a sane person.

You can not convince me Ulder Ravengard, a man who worked alongside a good man and saw even the BEST of Bhaalspawns struggle with his parentage, saw Durge and Wyll together and was like "fine by me."

It's unclear if Abdel died fighting Viekang OR turned into Slayer.

The possibility is here, for they do not know the truth.

Look me in the eyes and tell me Ulder Ravengard, the man who knew Abdel better than many, did not lie in his bed with no sleep at vicinity wondering what was Abdel's end - his brother's blade or the blades of the very men he lead.

Tell me Ulder was not confronted by the fact what his FRIEND might have succumbed to his unholy nature at last.

On good days he strongly believed Abdel stayed true to himself. But on bad days? Doubts had to creep in.

And then his son comes back. As a devil. And introduces another bhaalspawn, someone who should not even exist, but somehow does.

And this Bhaalspawn is...was involved in the things currently destroying his beloved city.

And said Bhaalspawn killed innocent girl and tried to murder his son. They tried to murder his only son, someone Ulder thought of every day ever since fate strayed his hand and he had to exile Wyll for the wellbeing of the people.

A Bhaalspawn actively haunted by their father.

A Bhaalspawn who was working together with Enver fucking Gortash.

Does memory loss excuse anything? Does it change the horrors this spawn brought? I sure don't think so.

And I don't think anyone knows better what a tickling bomb Bhaalspawn is than someone who knew a Bhaalspawn closely. There is no "safe" Bhaalspawn.

And I believe Ulder would want his son to be safe and not dealing with a murderous amnesiac Wyll decided he is in love with.

[venomoustia]

Thinking about a durge whose dream guardian is that of the first person they killed. By canon, it’s their adoptive family. These first deaths, were the ones that, in essence, rebirthed them into Bhaal’s scion. The imagery of having these deaths be what they see, during their second ‘rebirth��.

The thought that, the thing that the Emperor can latch onto the strongest, is not Orin or Enver or anyone that durge knew more intricately, but a face that continues to stick with them after so many years. A past that continues to linger. Truly, they are the haunted one.

[perilla-leaves]

Finally finished my first Durge playthrough 🩸

[feniksido]

If i think about Zenith and the whole dark urge thing in general for too long i start going crazy

To me Zenith is not redeemable, he learns about everything he’s done and he thinks “i was brilliant. That man was brilliant” he is never ashamed of who he is or what he did but i like to think about those moments where he’s too human for his own liking. He gave someone some coin while on a walk! He cares for his cultists in the temple in his own way, recovering family artifacts and feeding his following

He’s evil. He’s horrific. A manipulator, a serial killer, a cannibal, and a just all around horrendous person. He’s not redeemable. But he’s a person and something about irredeemable people acting human makes it better for me.

I love it when an evil person can stand there, committing horrible crimes against humanity and society as a whole and yet still be genuine in his admiration and respect for another person. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re evil. Doesn’t mean they can be redeemed. It just means they’re alive. And contradictory. And that they have always had the capability to be “good” but have actively chosen not to be. Makes them worse people honestly. Cus if you had no choice then one can hardly blame you for just being the only thing you can be. But you’re worse cus you chose this

[backonrepeat]

It's a bit annoying how little reactivity Gortash has in game to anything having to do with his past. Speaking to him after meeting his parents doesn't give you any additional dialogue options, neither does finding out about his time in the House of Hope

Like... Shouldn't we at least be able to bring it up in conversation? At that point Raphael has been stalking the party and pushing his wonderful "deal" for three acts, finding out about the connection between him and Gortash should give us *something*. If you ally with Gortash maybe you can mention Raphael and Gortash cautions you against trusting him. And if you antagonise him, maybe you could tell him something along the lines of "Raphael sends his regards".

Same with Raphael and Korilla, we find out he basically raised one of the main villains of the game and can't say anything about it (we can't even ask him to show us gortash baby pictures).

After Larian introduced Gortash as the "politician raised by a devil", I kind of expected something more to come out of his backstory.

[princeofhags]

I did the thing

[vialae]

Do you think when durge returns to the temple every now and then, some of the followers throw themselves at their feet. Try to kiss their boots and maybe even lick some of the blood off of them because oh how glorious!!! surely our depraved leader has returned to feed us all with a wonderful sacrifice to their father!!!

Then sceleritas fel scurries over and shoos them all away, just so he can then kiss and polish their dear master’s boots. oh that looks like a wonderful sacrifice for your father, my lord. he will be very pleased with that one. i have polished all the skulls in anticipation for this very moment!

And all of this is just a regular tuesday for durge.

[arealcrow]

thinking Really hard about the themes of abuse and trauma and breaking cycles, and this quote from ketheric's fight at the end of act 2

[y-rhywbeth2]

The "are Bhaalspawn actually related to each other or are they just spiritually connected in a metaphorical sense, considering they share zero genetics - but also they are siblings, because obviously Bhaal was directly involved in their conception which counts for something and in god terms it does make them siblings" thing was actually very briefly touched upon in BG2:

Imoen: "[Charname] is my [half-sibling] you know! I owe [them] my life, but let's not take it that far!" Viconia: "Your common parent is a god. This hardly counts towards any sort of common genetic bond."

It's like on the god family tree you are siblings, on the mortal side you're totally unrelated randos. But Bhaalspawn are god and mortal so both are true simultaneously.

The Bhaalspawn family tree/s: confusing people since 1998!

[ch0sene]

“[…] loss of family (birth or found), fear of corruption (physical or spiritual), and lack of self-belief (the grove, the shadow curse). they’ve dogged him for years in different forms” I’M FINE

[shaykai]

Vat/Orin childhood schenanigans is fun yes, but consider, they still try to pettily rip eachother apart as adults, the same way they would have as children

Oh yeah they would for sure- and honestly I think their relationship would be worse if he showed up later (which is always fun. Throw some animosity onto the gas fire that is their relationship)

Like she’s being prepped to start running the cult and taking over from Sarevok and then some drow walks in and is basically just handed everything (I assume there are some trials but like. It’s Durge. He passes dhshshsj)

I think they’ll lose some of their bond (mostly on Vat’il’s end. He does care about Orin! It’s just in a super messed up version of love kind of a way) but it’s also not like they were ever super close so it works out

[gxldencity]

So I'm like on PT #3 for bg3 (I did Lie about putting this game off till January lol) and this is the first run where I am romancing astarion and I gotta say...ppl are right about him having 0 rizz. Like the man can't handle being reciprocated in terms of flirting and he's even more of a cringelord now