#orestes and aegisthus

[sarafangirlart]

Orestes might have hated Aegisthus but he was high key pulling an Aegisthus when killing Neoptolemus to be with Hermione (usually even with Hermione’s approval and/or encouragement).

[galusandmalus]

Surprisingly, a lot of art with Clytemnestra actually trying to kill Orestes. wowie

(sorry the axe is cut out in some of these cut oxford sucks lmao) its kinda wild cuz the implication is that she and orestes had a actual ass fight, axe vs sword.

Hell, here's some art of Orestes vs Aegisthus. lmao i need an all-out Orestes where he just actually fights his way to the throne (honorably)

orestes reminds me of a wardobe

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

IT'S 11:30 PM BUT I AM HAVING THOUGHTS

THOUGHTS ABOUT APOLLO AND ORESTES

I HAVE NOT READ THE ORESTIEA BUT DW I HAVE IT AND I'M GONNA READ IT AFTER THE ILIAD

I MAY HAVE MORE THOUGHTS AFTER THAT WE SHALL SEE

I made my Apollo & Cassandra post a while back so now it's time for Orestes :)

just. ahhhh. how do i begin.

at the beginning i guess.

Orestes is a young child when he's smuggled out of Argos. By his sister to keep him safe when their father is murdered by their mother. He's a young boy exiled from his home because of the actions of a vengeful queen.

Years later, he receives a mission from Apollo - kill his mother to avenge his father. And he does just that.

Apollo was a young god, not even born yet, when he was exiled from the very earth by a vengeful queen. His mother fought and ran to find a place to deliver him and his own sister to safety. In his mother's honor, he goes out of his way to kill those who dare to harm her - Python and Tityus, to name a few.

The parallels get me okay? Even if it's not a deadringer, they are sill there.

Apollo defends his mother while Orestes kills his.

Orestes was ordered to kill his mother while Apollo murdered others for Leto on his own accord.

And what REALLY gets me is their different motivations in this situation - Orestes believes he's avenging his father, the man he never quite knew. Apollo meanwhile wouldn't loose sleep over Agamemnon's death.

Apollo wasn't aiming to avenge Agamemnon. He was avenging Cassandra.

But he couldn't tell Orestes that, now could he? After all, what was a mere slave girl from Troy to Orestes? Especially since he didn't know her at all.

Avenging Cassandra wouldn't be enough to convince Orestes to commit matricide. So Apollo uses Agamemnon's death as incentive for Orestes.

And it works. Apollo's goals are met - Clytemnestra and Aegisthus are killed, and Cassandra's soul can rest easy now in Elysium.

He could cut his losses and leave Orestes to the Furies. He no longer has anything to do with this.

But Apollo stays with Orestes. He helps him rest in Delphi before getting him a headstart to Athens. He defends him in court from the Furies, in front of the jury of Athenians and Athena herself. He puts himself firmly on Orestes's side and uses whatever means necessary to get him off the hook.

And if that means manipulating the city of Athens via their sexist ideologies? It's free real estate. When you're in court, you use whatever you can to help your client.

And Apollo wins. Orestes is free to go, and the curse of the House of Atreus is gone for good.

just. vibrating from this. the similarities between Apollo & Orestes in their youth that diverges in stark ways. How Apollo could have dropped Orestes the moment his own goal was finished, but chose not too - he chose to take it a step farther and get rid of that curse for good. So Orestes and his family could live in peace.

When I first heard about the Oresteia, and what Apollo says to free Orestes, I had a hard time reconciling it. Apollo just didn't give off those sexist vibes to me (as a matter of facts, very few gods do - after all, they appear how they want when they want. gender is meaningless to gods.).

But I did some digging. Some thinking. And really, Apollo is quite in-character during the trial - he's in Lawyer Mode. He manipulates the system to his advantage as well as the Athenian citizens with their misogynistic beliefs.

Because think about it. Apollo uses the argument, in brief terms, that a mother has no claim on the child because they are only for making babies. This gets half of the Athenian jury to immediately side with Orestes.

Is this a bullshit argument? Absolutely. But sometimes a bullshit argument gets your client out of trouble and that's the job of a lawyer - to help their client.

For a closing statement, I also want to say that I don't think Apollo himself believes that sexist opinion. After all, Leto was the one running around the world to find a safe place to deliver him and Artemis - Zeus did very little to help.

It was his mom who did all the work, and Apollo is very clearly a mama's boy.

Plus, 99.9% of the people Apollo hangs out with are women. Leto, Artemis, the Muses, Athena, Hecate, Aphrodite, ect ect

There's no way he actually buys that argument. He just used it to gaslight the very-sexist Athenians into voting in Orestes's favor because godsdammit that curse needs to go!

thank you for coming to my TEDTalk. I have feelings. goodnight now. happy new year. i shall post a snippet of a storyboard idea for my mythology series tomorrow that features apollo & orestes because I HAVE FEELINGS.

[deathinagarden]

aegisthus and orestes because i love these idiots

[tangoboheme]

Clytemnestra and Aegisthus

[likethexan]

for the House of Agamemnon, hesitation was a form of love

[fleurbleedinghearts]

Aegisthus;

supportive lover and step-father, or cuckholding schemer and coward?

Orestes;

misogyny-and-propaganda-fed victim of generational trauma, or ungrateful son who weaseled his way out of punishment?

Elektra;

spoiled, vengeful hard-head with a grudge, faithful daughter who was misrepresented by Jennifer Saint, OR a child who was subjected to intense family discord and can’t be held accountable for any of her actions due to being largely neglected by Clymenestra in her grief for Iphigenia?

Aegisthus - supportive lover and step-father, or cuckholding schemer and coward

Supportive lover, horrible stepfather. Definitely a schemer as well but I don't blame him for being Clytemnestra's side piece when Agamemnon cheated on her with Argynnus and took Chyseis & Cassandra as sex slaves.

Orestes - misogyny-and-propaganda-fed victim of generational trauma, or ungrateful son who weaseled his way out of punishment

Clytemnestra abused and tried to kill Orestes so my sympathy is fully with him. Not to mention he wasn't happy about killing his mom at all even though she was a shitty mom to him, Apollo literally ordered him to do it. Might as well avenge the parent who actually loved you.

Elektra - spoiled, vengeful hard-head with a grudge, faithful daughter who was misrepresented by Jennifer Saint, OR a child who was subjected to intense family discord and can’t be held accountable for (m)any of her actions due to being largely neglected by Clymenestra in her grief for Iphigenia

I don't think I need to explain what kind of mom Clytemnestra was like again. I also understand why she sided with Agamemnon beyond the obvious misogyny of Greek society saying fathers are the more important parent, he was commanded by Artemis to kill her sister, not because he wanted to, and she only had good memories of him while Clytemnestra... became the way she did.

[blueberry-ink-93]

AGAMEMNON

thoughts on the first play of the oresteia!

this is the chorus of trojan women praying to artemis & apollo

lion metaphor counter: 2

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clytemnestra telling the elders that shes recieved news by torch that troy has been taken (via hefefuf lol)

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love love love the metaphor of oil & vinegar not mixing its soso good, pointing out the difference in persepctive lest we forget that while this is a victory for greece its a huge huge loss for troy

ofc there are no winners in war but here the devastation hardly compares

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just a tiny bit funny to me that a couch was mentioned alongside a palace and a king lol

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anyway while reading i noticed the trend of the elders regarding clytemnestra at times with confusion and others with contempt at her being a woman. and one in power no less

i do believe cly played into it which i suppose goes to show how much restraint and patience she had to put on the performance (lol) of the loyal wife welcoming her hero husband home having finally restored the honour of hellas to appease the argives and get them off her back.

"o queen, thy speech would become the lips of a wise and temperate man" this comes after they exclaimed that it was so womanlike (and therefore beneath them) of her to iirc rejoice at news that had not yet reached nor been verified to them

going as far as to straight up tell her shes probably seen it in a dream, "ye flout my wisdom as if i were a silly girl". irritating but not at all unexpected.

then she explained to them that the torch thing was planned which shut them up nicely lol. moving on

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feeling kind of insane abt how ares here is described using the concept of usury; the interest rate *the price payed for war* is ridiculously high and extremely exploitative. lkdjfdekwejrewk

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me core lol

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this is worded so funny to me idk why.

what are ur hobbies? oh you know. i dabble in gore. on tuesdays

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the man of the hour himself speaks at last. ft. ody catching strays

i do love that hes a rat bastard and everyone knows its part of his rat bastard charm. unsubstantial shadow. woof

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agamemnon spitting facts. love that for him

here cly greets him in a foreign fashion, having spread some rich fabric on the path hes to take back home (greeks invented the red purple carpet u heard it here first folks) and hes like nay wench

he concedes in the end

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astaghfirullah brother agamemnon what is this

foreshadowing if u squint ig (the web)

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kindred counter: 5

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this line absolutely sent me i nearly fell out of my chair

drag her ass cassandra

cant believe i predicted the poisoning (if i understood that right lol idk in my mind cly kills her with poison, not the stained weapon. btw the axe is something of a recent depiction she used a sword)

lion metaphor counter: 3

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ORESTES MON BEBE <3

once again insane by the imagery; the bloodied orestes places the final stone, stained and dented, completing the cursed mural that is the house of atreus. im so sick oh god

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this is so heartwrenching.

oh cassandra :')

OH AND ALSO. she calls to apollo many a time during her the narration of her misfortunes, at one point saying "apollon to me", which iirc from another post reveals the etymology of his name meaning the destroyer, i.e my (cassandra's) destroyer.

excuse me while i go die in the corner (will link it when i find it)

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shout out to the land of my ancestors making it onto a greek play lol

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ok this part damn well near killed me; the elders have heard cass' prophecy and know that agamemnon is going to be killed but ofc they dont take her seriously

so hes being murdered offstage and theyre like: yall hear sum

KJSKAJSDKWJEFGBGS

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noice

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🥺

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brutal

he compares the speech (accusations) of the argive elders to orpheus' pleasing voice, pointing out the stark difference of the joy and peace the former brings whereas the latter provoke anger.

hes so ready to kill a bunch of old guys its so intense fdhsjak. the elders are all for it too lol. then cly puts an end to it

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assorted quotes:

(the line numbers arent numbering? i think theyre for the translations of the original greek more than for me to count in english lol but im not sure. if u know pls lmk!

"I know that hope is the exile's daily food" (aegisthus 1667)

"I have had enough of life" (cass 1315) <- same girlie same

"For thou hast with ease destroyed me this second time" (cass 1081) <- right after the apollon to me btw :')

"Who named her so unerringly? Was it some one whom we dream not of, foreknowing destiny and happy in his foretelling? Who named her 'Helene'*? the spear-wedded one, the strife-surrounded?" (chorus 682)

"who that is not a god, passeth the whole of his existence without suffering?" (agamemnons herald 554)

"To hearken beforehand is only to anticipate sorrow." (chorus 253)

"but let good auspices prevail" (121, 139, 159)

[exit KINDRED]

[incorrecthomer]

Aegisthus,walking into a messy living room: What’s going on here? Clytemnestra: Teenage rebellion Aegisthus: Fuck yeah, stick it to the old people Clytemnestra: We’re the old people Aegisthus: You guys better clean uP THIS MESS-

[notaclassicist]

teehee *spends 3 hours overdetailing an outline to my wild west oresteia/post-troy retelling knowing full damn well i won't be writing a single sentence of prose for it until i unearth the outline from my drafts in 4 years' time*

[iampresent]

Actually Curses (by Crane Wives) is about the entire House of Atreus Clusterfuck. To me.

[galusandmalus]

"Orestes slew Aegisthus and his own mother, seconded in all his plans by his sister Electra, a woman with the courage of a man. That his deed had the approval of the gods was made clear by the length of his life and the felicity of his reign, since he lived ninety years and reigned seventy. Furthermore, he also took revenge upon Pyrrhus the son of Achilles in fair fight, for he slew him at Delphi because he had forestalled him in marrying Hermione, the daughter of Menelaus and Helen who had been pledged to himself."-Velleius Paterculus, Roman History

[amostcuriousmythicist]

The Infant Sons of Cassandra and Agamemnon

There is the grave of Atreus, along with the graves of such as returned with Agamemnon from Troy, and were murdered by Aegisthus after he had given them a banquet. As for the tomb of Cassandra, it is claimed by the Lacedaemonians who dwell around Amyclae. Agamemnon has his tomb, and so has Eurymedon the charioteer, while another is shared by Teledamus and Pelops, twin sons, they say, of Cassandra whom while yet babies Aegisthus slew after their parents.

Pausanias 2.16.6-7

[clytemnestraenjoyer]

I am so ill over orestes it's not even funny godddddddd I love him he's so miserable MY HORRIBLE CREATURE

[lalounia]

Why do I have no recollection of drawing this?!?!

It's Aegisthus noting that Philebe (Orestes) is not cutting the sacrifice up like they do in the region he claims to be from and Pylades offering to smash a plate on the back Aegisthus's head (Orestes is not convinced by the idea).

Just teenagers being teenagers I guess ahahaha

[my-burnt-city]

i still have not figured out how i feel about this

but i guess it doesn't matter too much, when i know exactly how completely delighted i am by this