#or Bruce Wayne murderer and fugitive

[frogaroundandfindout]

“And for the first time in a long time, I realize I need something I’ve never needed before. Help” (legends of the dark knight #182)

[laufire]

see, though it's funny to compare the arc to tim's believing in helena's innocence during cry for blood and I've done it before (she wouldn't be that sloppy!!) I think tim was right to say "well let's pause and carefully examine the evidence" in bruce wayne: murderer?/fugitive because here's the thing. if bruce kills someone it is gonna be sloppy. it's NOT going to be a perfectly planned murder, it's going to be bruce losing control of his temper and going too far against a criminal, as he often does. usually "too far" means cruelly brutalising them because he's in Too Much (Man)Pain and Has Been Pushed Too Far.

like he does in an issue of gotham knights I read today (#42), where alfred is sick and his life is in danger, and he beats up the riddler long after he's given up. like tim knows he did after jason's death. like when he fucks up the case against the dumpster slasher by going to his home and breaking his jaw. like the way he's come close to killing the joker a few times (hush comes to mind). or like in under the red hood, where he uses lethal force against jason and very much does kill him (comics' comicness aside).

so, yeah. bruce is far, far more likely to completely lose control and commit (in)voluntary manslaughter than premeditated murder. and tim sure knows it well.

[havendance]

(JLA: Welcome to the Working Week)

Narrator: So I spent the evening watching the Bruce Wayne: Fugitive TV movie. They made Gordon Puerto Rican, but I'm always happy to see Luis Guzman in anything.

I love the little details writers include. In the DC universe there was a direct to TV movie 'inspired by real events' that documents that one time Bruce Wayne got framed for murder and broke out of jail. I bet Dick, Tim, and Barbara all had fun with that one.

[planetoflovers]

As a Jason liker why am I in the anti Jason Todd tag but you’re so real for the “citizens see red hood as more effective than Batman” hate. Loathing. 13 year old kids seeing the guy that killed their uncle Anthony but it’s okay cause dealers won’t sell to their 16 year old sister who’s either now doing even shadier shit to get drugs or being forced through withdrawal. Okay. If you want to fanon jason stays in crime alley area and Jason really puts the fear of god into criminals by killing them -> generation of kids growing up with red hood related ptsd from their extended family and neighbors being killed by this dude. Like. Why are so many people in this fandom obsessed with theory posting about things they don’t know anything about.

It just does not make any sense to me. There are so many examples of goons with families in Batman comics. I’m currently reading Batgirl 2000 and this is a recurring archetype amongst the criminals she fights. I just really dislike Jason stans’ hypocrisy surrounding some of the characters moral codes. Like they say Bruce is childish and weak for upholding his no kill rule and then say that Jason’s methods of killing with no due process or remorse is what Gotham really needs. It’s absurd.

Murdered are a dime a dozen in Gotham. For every drug dealer Jason kills there’s probably another guy out there glad that his competition is gone. Bruce’s whole thing is that he never wants another child to go through what he went through when his parents died, regardless of how morally upright those parents happen to be. Him going around killing criminals goes against that cause whether you want to admit it or not every criminal has someone that loves them.

It should be obvious to everyone by now that Gotham’s main issue is corruption. The reason crime runs rampant is because most of the policy makers and law officials are in the pocket of crime lords like the penguin and black mask thus preventing justice from taking place.

I’ve probably said this before but a lot of gothamites don’t even like Batman and his associates and he works within the limits of the law. With Batman you at least know that you’ll live to see tomorrow but with the red hood that guarantee is not there. Batman inspired hope in people that they can change and choose to do better. Some newer comics seem to have forgotten the heart of Batman but moments like this one from Batman: kings of fear show that Bruce is making a change

And anyways Jason’s whole thing seems more like a child rebelling and lashing out at his father than any real attempt at crime prevention 🤷🏾‍♀️

[burins]

(batman 605)

murderer/fugitive the comic that you are!!!!

[umbrellajamming]

Batman: Bruce Wayne - Murderer Turned Fugitive Omnibus HC Planned release on December 17, 2024

👀 Rubbing my eyeballs all over this. It looks like it's going to actually have everything??

[gretahayes]

Do you think all that shit would've happened if Tim wasn't Robin or was he unintentionally a sort of catalyst

[zahri-melitor]

Oh my god, Gotham Knights #26. I’m screaming, crying, throwing up.

Just this. This is so damn crunchy. It’s a reminder that the core of the post-Crisis Batfamily revolves around the dynamics and dance of tensions between Dick, Babs and Tim, and how each of them relate to Bruce.

Dick’s on the upswing of his relationship with Bruce, after the adoption and the two of them hammering a bunch of issues out.

Tim’s at a low point where he’s been frozen out and deliberately hurt. Bruce revealed his identity to Steph! Plus Alfred, who’s been staying with him to punish Bruce, had just announced he’s going back to the manor, leaving Tim even more alone.

Babs is in one of her “I’m here for the rest of you; Bruce is aggravating me by being high handed again” phases (admittedly that’s…her default position unlike the other two).

And wow does the way the three of them negotiate the debate over “did Bruce kill someone” just show off both their best and worst character traits (and also they’re all acting way more adult than Bruce, which isn’t a surprise, but what can you do).

Tim and Dick talk! Tim worries Dick is a jumper! They find out they have different opinions on Did Bruce Do It!

(I just want to EAT UP the implication that Tim is worried that Dick might be about to attempt suicide over the fact Bruce killed someone, especially just after the whole ‘killing Joker’ situation)

Dick is Extremely Offended Tim might think Bruce Did It. So what does he do? Go off to talk it through with Babs.

Babs gives Dick the reality check that Bruce has been in one of his push-everyone-away loner modes again and that Dick off in Blüdhaven isn’t having to face it personally, but Batman isn’t even patrolling with Robin right now. Also that Tim’s experiences with Bruce are necessarily different to Dick’s.

When suddenly… Tim arrives to ALSO thrash this conversation out with Babs (They are such mirrors of each other I swear).

Dick takes the opportunity to try and touch base with Tim and find common ground, leading to one of the best/most devastating pages of the Dick & Tim relationship at this point.

Dick is trying to make his baby brother feel safe. Dick would do anything for Tim. Tim however is all too aware of how hollow this promise is, as well meaning as the sentiment is, because they’ve lost people before. (And as I noted, Dick’s actually still in a GOOD cycle with Bruce while Tim really isn’t)

Which leads to THIS angst.

Tim believes in Dick. He can get by just trusting in the detective work he’s been taught and knowing that Dick holds to the Code (and we are LITERALLY only 3 months real time on since Last Laugh, Tim you have phenomenal levels of belief in Dick). Dick however, has that same level of trust in BRUCE, and so can’t cope with Tim not also feeling that way.

(And then Dick goes off to cry to Alfred because he also needed reassurance)

God I love all three of them so much it’s hard to describe. They’re so functional together even when they’re fighting as they all, at their core, trust each other implicitly.

(Alfred and Leslie have some very meaty conversations together and apart also in this, when Gotham Knights was on its game it was one of the best Bat books out there)

Finally: Babs is not having a great time here either, as she’s having to coordinate and run the investigation on Vesper Fairchild’s murder without any assistance from the primary suspect.

Working out some anger issues there, Babs? (Robin #99)

[barbaraminerva-apologist]

Batman during his "Bruce Wayne is mask, he died with his parents" phase

[mangoisms]

no one could ever ask for my favorite issues because i read without glancing at issue numbers i get consumed and i’m like. so sorry. if you ask me for a reading guide i’d just nudge you to ones that i use 😭

[angstandhappiness]

NEAT

please no more "Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman wears" nonsense. Society has moved past "Bruce Wayne is the mask Batman wears"

[erb23]

But no, really, with how many B*tm*n comics come out each month you can actually just ignore G*th*m W*r because the likelihood that this story line will matter to any comic other than the main B*tm*an comics is so slim.

By the time we get the next writer for them, this story will (hopefully) not matter at all.

[laufire]

a bat-man in his natural habitat.

[havendance]

hello mem!! i just finished reading the entirety of no man’s land, and im trying to figure out where to go from there. online searching hasn’t really been helpful 😭 this is the list i found, im just not sure about the order:

- batman by ed brubaker vol 1

- new gotham vol 1

- officer down

- new gotham vol 2

- bruce wayne murderer/fugitive

- gotham central

- catwoman???? not sure which comics tho

where does vol 2 of batman by ed brubaker fit into this?? is this even the right order?? i’d truly appreciate your help 🥺

I'll do my best to straighten you out!

After No Man's Land, all of the Bat titles go their own way (before joining up back together for Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murder/Fugitive).

New Gotham Volume 1 collects Greg Rucka's run on Detective Comics between the end of No Man's Land and Officer Down.

(Following the end of NML, Batman was written by Larry Hama for a little bit, and all of those stories are just kind of fine and also not collected anywhere that I know of so don't worry about that. This bullet point is mainly to explain why Batman by Ed Brubaker does not cover the same span of time as New Gotham.)

The first four issues collected Batman by Ed Brubaker vol 1 take place BEFORE Officer Down. The rest take place afterward.

This was not on your list, but I do also recommend reading Gotham Knights: Transference which collects the first 12 issues of Gotham Knights. This also takes place between the end of No Man's Land and Officer Down. Gotham Knights is comic that does a good job of showcasing the Bats as an ensemble so if you like Batman working with his allies, this is the book for you. Also, Transference is just really good, and Gotham Knights as a whole contributes to everything leading up to Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive.

Catwoman does not have any collected editions for this period.

Officer Down goes here.

After Officer Down goes New Gotham Volume 2. This collects all of Detective Comics between Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murderer.

Batman by Ed Brubaker vol 1 also covers most of this ground. This is where things start getting a little (more) complicated though. The first issue collected in Batman by Ed Brubaker vol 2 takes place BEFORE Bruce Wayne: Murderer. It then proceeds to collect the tie-in issues of Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive that Brubaker wrote. I would honestly just skip this volume. The first issue is a christmas issue with like an evil (fake) Santa Claus or something and it's not that important. The other issues will be easier to read in other collected editions.

I also recommend you read Gotham Knights: Contested which collects the issues of Gotham Knights between Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive. The final issue of the does take place AFTER Bruce Wayne: Murder/Fugitive but the rest of it takes place before.

This is where you read Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Bruce Wayne Fugitive. I think there's a new omnibus collecting it all coming out soon, but I'm not sure how useful that is to you.

Gotham Central starts a few months or so after the conclusion of Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, but there's not really anything else you need to read before you can start this.

To look ahead a little after this, Hush starts to run in Batman and Brubaker start doing some other stuff in Detective Comics that doesn't get collected. And then (unfortunately) the next major event is War Games. But there's plenty of comics for you to read up to this point, so we'll stop here for now.

Other notes:

Catwoman does not really tie in to Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive but around the time that event is starting up, Brubaker is relaunching Catwoman. This is where she gets the black leather catsuit and this IS collected in Catwoman Vol. 1: Trail of the Catwoman. I have not read this, but I've heard that it's good. It's also getting reprinted soon I believe.

Robin does not really have any collected editions post NML. If you want to read him, you're going to need to do it some other way. His event tie in issues are collected though.

Nightwing DOES have some collected editions if you're interested in him though. Nightwing Vol. 5: The Hunt for Oracle overlaps with No Man's Land, but it also collects the start of what he's up to afterward. Following that, Vol. 6 collects the rest of the way up to Officer Down. Vol. 7 and the first 4 issues collected in Vol.8 collect the stuff between Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive.

Birds of Prey gets hooked in to events, but the comics themselves don't really contribute to the larger Gotham narrative going on. I still think they're fun though. Birds of Prey vol. 3 collects the Birds of Prey comics between the end of NML and Officer Down. There aren't any collected editions for the Dixon run after this though.

Batgirl! We can't forget Batgirl, it's very good. It does get roped into events, but most of it is standalone. Batgirl Vol. 1: Silent Knight collects the comics between the end of NML and Officer Down as well as Cass' Officer Down tie in. This volume is harder to track down/more expensive on the resale market, but if your library as Hoopla, it's available there. (Most of these trades that I'm mentioning are as far as I'm aware.) Vol. 2 collects the comics leading up to Bruce Wayne: Murderer and then a couple, and Vol 3 collects a couple of the tie ins for Fugitive I believe and then beyond. They can largely be read on their own terms.

I would be remiss if I didn't recommend that you also read Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood. This is a six issue mini-series takes place relatively shortly after NML and was recently reprinted as Birds of Prey: Huntress. Definitely read this! It is good! Also you can see what Helena's up to after NML.

Finally, at a point in time between Officer Down and Bruce Wayne: Murderer, Joker: Last Laugh happens which is the event where Dick kills the Joker and Bruce revives him. Every comic has a tie-in where they have to fight Jokerized villains and honestly that could be the extent of your engagement with this comic. The main issues of this event are theoretically collected but also I've never seen this trade anywhere and also it's not on Hoopla (which is how I read most of my trades) so that might prove an issue.

To summarize all of this (I'm using bolded entries to demarcate crossover events. You can jump around between entries in this list between them as they largely run concurrently.) (the exception being like Nightwing vol 5 and 6. The Hunt for Oracle Crossover between Nightwing and Birds of Prey is also collected in both Nightwing vol 5 and Birds of Prey vol. 3):

New Gotham vol. 1

Gotham Knights: Transferrence

Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood

Batgirl vol. 1

Nightwing vol. 5 and vol. 6

Batman by Ed Brubaker vol. 1 (first 4 issues)

Officer Down

The rest of Batman by Ed Brubaker vol. 1

New Gotham vol. 2

Gotham Knights: Contested

Batgirl vol. 2

Nightwing vol. 7 and Nightwing vol. 8 (first 4 issues)

Bruce Wayne: Murderer and Bruce Wayne: Fugitive

Catwoman Volume 1: The Trail of Catwoman (Running roughly concurrently with Murderer/Fugitive)

Batgirl vol. 3

Gotham Central vol. 1

Batman: Hush

etc etc

I think that's it, but I'm sure that if I missed anything one of my lovely and knowledgeable mutuals will point it out.

Clear as mud? But seriously, I hoped this cleared things up for you and please do not hesitate to ask follow up questions! If this list is overwhelming, I would say, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Batgirl, and Cry for Blood (though as a Helena fan, I really do think you should read Cry for Blood) are less essential to the building Gotham plot that leads up to Murder/Fugitive, but I really do think you should read Gotham Knights. There's some really fun comics in this era, I hope you enjoy!

[farshootergotme]

I cannot believe I'm saying this but I just argued with someone who was insisting that Dick is abusive and cruel to his family and friends while excusing Jason's actions as "the pit did it". Please give me sweet/cute moments between Dick and his friends/family, whether that's just him listening (like the time he dropped everything so Tim could vent to him) or helping out etc

You ask and I'll deliver!

Dick, Bruce & Alfred

Alfred expressing his gratitude to Dick for being there after Bruce died: Batman #689

Dick and Alfred with an arm wrapped around each other: Detective Comics #838

Dick and Alfred grieving Bruce together: Nightwing (1996) #153

Alfred welcomes Dick: Nightwing (1996) #101

Dick tells Alfred he misses him: Missing (1996) #126

Alfred and Dick hugging: Gotham Knights #25

Dick hugs Alfred: Titans Hunt #2

Dick tells Bruce that if he wants him to wear the cowl again, he will: Batman and Robin (2011) #34

Dick helps Bruce save Damian in the simulation: Batman and Robin (2011) #23

Dick saves Bruce and they hug: Robin and Batman #3

Dick hugging Bruce after he and the league are saved: JLA (1997) #75

Dick calls Bruce “dad”: Nightwing (2016) #100

Dick tells Bruce he'd die for him: Robin (1993) #13

Dick asking Bruce if he wants to talk: Year One: Batman/Scarecrow #1

Jason & Dick

Dick gives Jason his old costume and his phone number in case he needs to talk: Batman #416

Dick catches Jason before he falls off a train: Nightwing (1996) #106

Dick calls Jason “little wing” while they work together: Nightwing (1996) #106

Dick tells Jason about Bruce firing him and apologizes for Bruce about him using Dick to make Jason feel small: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Dick hanging out with Robin!Jason: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Dick tells Jason they're brothers: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Dick tells Jason he's proud he's put the guns away: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Nightwing calls Red Hood “Robin” to calm him down: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Parallel to the past: Nightwing v4 annual #1

Dick promises Jason he'll talk with Bruce so Jason doesn't get in trouble after helping the Teen Titans in a mission: The New Teen Titans v2 #31

Dick offers Jason help: Batman and Robin (2009) #6

Cass & Dick

Dick offering Cass to talk: Batman: Family v2 #7

Dick and Cass apologize to each other: Batman and the Outsiders v2 #14

Dick and Cass cooking together: Nightwing (2016) #106

Dick and Cass working together to find the truth about Bruce murderer’s allegations: Batman: Bruce Wayne – Fugitive

Dick and Cass race each other: Batman – Legends of the Dark Knight #184

Cass describes in her journal how Dick told her about Cinderella and made her laugh: Batgirl (2000) #58

Dick stops Jason from attacking Cass: Batman & Robin Eternal #3

Tim & Dick

Blindfolded bonding: Nightwing (1996) #25

Dick hugging Tim and kissing the top of his head: Nightwing (1996) #139

Dick inviting Tim on a mission: Nightwing (1996) #142

Dick makes Tim laugh: Robin (1993) #71

Dick cooking for Tim: Batman #512

Dick complimenting Tim's skills: Robin 80 Years of the Boy Wonder The Deluxe Edition

Dick complimenting Tim's skills 2.0: Nightwing (1996) #6

Tim tells Dick that he will always be there for him: Red Robin (2009) #12

Dick changes his plans to stay and listen to what Tim needs to talk about: Robin (1993) #156

Dick and Tim hanging out: Secret Origins 80 Page Giant

Dick calls Tim his little brother: Secret Origins 80 Page Giant

Damian & Dick

Dick and Damian hugging when they find out the other is alive: Grayson #12

Dick hugs Damian relieved that he's okay: Nightwing (2016) #20

Dick assures Damian they'll find Bruce: Nightwing (2016) #29

Damian admits to have missed Dick: Nightwing (2016) #20

“We are still the greatest”: Nightwing (2016) #20

Dick comforting Damian as he cries: Batman v3 #33

Damian thanking Dick for being there: Batman v3 #34

Batman!Dick saves Damian's life and praises his work: Batman and Robin (2009) #3

Damian tells Dick he is his favorite partner: Batman Incorporated v2 #8

Dick and Alfred acknowledge Damian's efforts to be better: Batman and Robin (2009) #22

Damian throws up and Batman!Dick comforts him: Batman - Streets of Gotham #7

Dick calls Damian his Robin: Robin (2021) #5

Damian says he doesn't need the Titans because he already has a friend in Gotham (Dick): Teen Titans v3 #92

The (Teen) Titans & Dick

Wally and Dick hugging: Nightwing 1996 #141

Wally asks Dick for help to find Linda: The Flash v2 #214

Donna and Dick hugging: Titans Secret Files #2

Dick listens to Garth's problems: Titans v2 #15

Dick tells Donna that he's there if there's anything she wants to talk about: The New Teen Titans #14

Dick helps Roy find Lian and bring her home with him: Action Comics #618

Dick kissing Donna’s forehead: The Titans (1999) #28

Titans pillow fight: The New Teen Titans v2 #32

Dick and Gar talk about Vic: The New Teen Titans v2 #48

Steel and Gar talking about Dick: Titans (2016) #27

Nightwing argues with Batman to save Cyborg: JLA/Titans #2

Roy opens up to Dick and Dick tells Roy he'd trust him with his life: Outsiders (2003) #11

“Who wouldn't fall in love with that wouldn't fall in love with that strength and that smile?” – Donna Troy: DC special - The Return of Donna Troy #2

Dick calls the Titans his ‘safety net’: Nightwing Secret Files and Origins

Wally tries to distance himself from his loved ones but goes see Dick when his statue won't stay turned away: The Flash v6 #9

Others

Dick comforts Jon: Nightwing (2016) #89

Kara thanks Dick for being a friend and brother to her: Justice League of America v2 #60

Superman calls Dick the multiversal constant for being confident, kind and cool in every universe he's been: Nightwing (2016) #9

Friends: Nightwing (2016) #9

Some heroes help Dick move out and Dick thanks them for their assistance: Nightwing #153

Dick Grayson, the most trusted man next to Superman: The Brave and the Bold v3 #15

Dick's neighbors talking about him: Nightwing (1996) #87

Dick gets powers for two hours and spends time with Superman: Nightwing (2016) #104

Jim tells Dick his cops prefer him to Bruce: Batman and Robin (2009) #13

Nightwing leading the Titans: Teen Titans (2003) #23

Dick relates to Conner and tells him he has to start trusting himself as Dick trusts him: Teen Titans (2003) #33

“You know, everyone's right about you. You totally rule.”: Teen Titans (2003) #33

Kyle's first impression of Dick: Green Lantern (1990) #81

Oh man! This is awful! How can Dick be this abusive? Oh, wait! he isn't.

Well, sorry it took me a bit, but I hope this helps!

There's more characters' moments I wanted to add but it was taking me too long so I decided to leave it as it is.

[danny-chase]

It’s kind of funny that fandom thinks that Dick and Bruce fought all the time in front of Jason, because the one time that Dick and Bruce fought while Jason was living at the manor, Dick specifically waited until Jason went to school to ream Bruce out. MEANWHILE, after Jason died Dick gave 0 fucks about calling Bruce out on his shit in public, and started a fist-fight with his dad in front of their entire family (thank you Bruce Wayne: Fugitive/Murderer)