#one of the very very few male characters I would go to fan wars over fr I think about him all the time 💔

[we-love-morioh-cho]

Tsurugi calling Yasuho 'big sis'........ You will never be Emporio.

[rainbowsky]

Award nominations - my thoughts

There has been a lot of uproar about the Magnolia Awards nominations. Here are my thoughts.

Disclaimer: I'm going to preface this by talking about a life lesson I refuse to learn (to the dismay of those closest to me). The lesson is, "Don't make yourself a target." That can often mean, "Don't speak your mind if your perspective differs from popular opinion" or in this case, "When people are upset, don't put yourself in the position to become the outlet for all their anger."

But I respect diversity of opinion, and that means I want to hear from a variety of perspectives on an issue and I suspect some of my readers do as well. So I hope everyone can remain open to hearing things they might not agree with, and respect each other's views. I also want to add that everything I say here is about me and my views - not a commentary on anyone else or their views.

I also think it's important that I make clear that I have not yet seen War of Faith. I'm relying on reviews and on reports from other fans, from my friends, and from my sister for my understanding of the drama and the performances actors gave.

A bit of background

For those who aren't aware of this issue, I'll try to outline the broad strokes of it all.

The Magnolias are prestigious drama awards in China, somewhat on par with the Emmies. For months now there has been a lot of buzz building about the possibility of a nomination for GG and The Youth Memories, and/or for DD and War of Faith.

The nominations came through today, and there was just the nomination for War of Faith for Best Drama. DD was not nominated, but Wang Yang was nominated for Best Leading Actor.

A lot of fans and even a few passers-by have been very vocally upset about this, saying it's a snub to DD and his excellent performance. Some have even characterized it as a huge betrayal of DD to nominate Wang Yang, who was really only a supporting actor, over DD, who was the real leading actor.

There have been claims that DD wasn't even put forth for the award by the producers, which has made fans even more angry. Many are attacking the producers, speaking out against DD appearing in a proposed season 2 of the series, and threatening backlash if the producers celebrate the nominations the drama received.

Checking the facts

As far as I can tell, here's what we know for sure:

The drama was co-billed with three leading actors: Wang Yibo, Li Qin and Wang Yang.

While DD's character was the protagonist of the drama, he wasn't billed as the sole male lead for the series.

All three leading actors gave solid performances.

We do not know for sure whether Li Qin's or Yibo's names were put forth for the awards. I personally can't think of any reason the producers would hold back on submitting everyone they can for the awards. The more nominations and wins the drama gets, the better for everyone involved.

Edit: according to a document purported by fans to be the official record of the names put forward for awards, Yibo, Li Qin and Wang Yang were all put forth as leads, which is in line with the billing each had in casting.

Fans are treating this as damning evidence that the producers unjustly put the supporting actor forward as a lead actor, but we have to keep in mind that there are likely contractual and legal considerations here. If somebody is cast in a leading role, then they have rights to be billed and promoted as such. We know that Li Qin and Wang Yang were both billed as co-leads.

Edit 2: The studio and producer have released statements where it was confirmed that all the lead actors were put forth for the awards.

My thoughts

I understand the disappointment fans feel when one of our boys is passed over for accolades and recognition. We're all invested in their well-being and success. However, I don't think it does any of us - and especially not DD - any kind of service to get upset and up in arms over something like this.

There are some really good reasons to believe that DD would not be thanking people for reacting the way they have:

It is an insult to Wang Yang and the performance he gave, which from what I understand, was outstanding. DD would not want his colleague's successes to be in any way diminished by the behavior and attitudes of his fans. It's not the kind of person he is.

It's disrespectful to the project as a whole. As I've said before, "A rising tide lifts all boats." The fact that the drama was nominated at all is to DD's great benefit. Turning something positive into a negative doesn't serve any productive purpose.

This makes DD look really bad, frankly. We shouldn't fail to recognize the irony of burning down the internet with cries of, "DD's being treated like a traffic star rather than the great actor he is!!" "He was snubbed!" "What a betrayal!" Nothing makes DD look more like a traffic star than fans behaving this way. This is classic fan culture behavior. We want DD to be recognized as a serious actor, but we simultaneously rely on traffic idol data and numbers to try to 'push his case', and claim he's 'being used for traffic' rather than ourselves respect his serious role in this drama.

This type of awards entitlement is not DD's style. Quite the contrary. He is an extremely humble, hardworking guy who likely cringes at the idea of people being outraged on his behalf in a situation like this.

Everything good that happens for this project, whether it's directly connected to DD or not, benefits DD. Everything bad that happens - every bit of bad publicity - harms DD.

This is a propaganda drama that's of significance to the ruling party. This type of fan behavior in relation to it has the chance of really harming DD and his career. Just like the whole debacle with GG's fans and their reaction over Ace Troops, this is not the kind of thing people should be doing.

From what I've learned about the Magnolias, these awards are given to established career actors. Young actors and newer actors do not tend to get nominated for these awards.

Like it or not, DD is a newcomer with a career that's still in transition. He has a lot of talent and some great successes under his belt, but he is still pretty green as an actor. Wang Yang has a career that goes back 20 years. DD has only been a serious actor for maybe a quarter of that time. It was unrealistic for fans to expect the tiger to change its stripes just for him.

This is not some nasty conspiracy against DD, this is just the reality of the industry he is in. Major awards tend to go to established career actors - both in China and globally. We should know this by now.

As far as I can tell, DD isn't being 'singled out' in any way. He's being treated like any other newcomer; being expected to 'pay his dues' just like everyone else.

DD is young, he has his whole career ahead of him. He is so talented and hardworking - he WILL win major awards. The fact that almost every project he's involved with gets nominations and awards is a very good sign, and ensures he will continue to get solid opportunities to show his skills. He's clearly picking good projects and performing well in them. Directors and producers will take notice of that and want to work with him.

He is on a normal - even exceptionally strong - career trajectory. Given his successes we should be very happy for the trajectory he is on. He will continue to work hard, get good roles, perform well and grow his audiences and his credibility among those audiences.

On a personal level

I love DD so much. He has something truly special about him. I want to see him do well, and for others to see and recognize what's so great about him.

He deals with an outrageous level of hatred and slander from antis, some of it truly makes me sick to my stomach. Nothing would make me happier than to see him be in a position to slap those assholes in the face with prestigious awards and recognition for his talent.

Of course I was dismayed when he wasn't nominated, just as I was dismayed that GG wasn't nominated.

However, I recognize that for what it is - a personal emotional reaction. Ultimately nothing that has happened here appears to be unjust or underhanded. Disappointing, perhaps, but not a conspiracy, not a betrayal.

Quite the contrary. DD's drama was nominated for 5 awards including Best Drama! We should be celebrating. There are probably hundreds of dramas that hope for this type of recognition every year, and DD's was one of those chosen among the very few nominated.

It makes me sad to see something positive being turned into a negative in this way. For all the reasons I outlined, I think it's misguided and could come back to bite DD hard in the ass.

Just my opinion. Hopefully once everyone has simmered down a bit we can all take a second look at this and find another perspective. One that is more worthy of DD as the humble human being he is.

[juuuulez]

📰 | epilogue: capulet.

info: Carl Grimes x Saviour! Reader, 6 year timeskip, cute Judith moments, S10 Negan (aka Negan redemption arc), winter vibes because I wish it snowed where I live.

summary: Six years later, Carl and Reader consider what the future holds.

holy shit guys…it’s over! it’s done! writing this was so weird but also i’m very happy with the ending, and also getting to expand on Carl’s character beyond his death in canon was amazingly freeing.

i’ve got some requests to catch up on, but feel free to ask for stuff in the Capulet-canon! i’ll definitely go back to this and do little spinoff oneshots because they r very cute.

i hope you enjoy this as much as i did!

-> masterlist <-

Snow crunches under your feet as you treck back to Alexandria’s walls. A thin layer has dusted itself over your hair and shoulders, falling from the fabric of your jacket with each step. Slung over your back is a bundle of game: mostly rabbits, some squirrels, all tied up at the feet.

They’d designated you to checking the traps, a fairly mundane job that was mostly bearable, sans when the weather was this harsh. Having a small amount of freedom was nice at times, where you could be alone with the woods, though you knew someone was trailing nearby, shadowing your every move.

It didn’t hurt that much, knowing they didn’t trust you. You understood. But it sucked that it was these random assholes who hadn’t even been there during the war. Since when did they get a say?

Regardless, you felt relief as you arrived back home, if you could even call it that. The gates opened with a creak, allowing you inside, a familiar scene yet twisted in so many ways.

It had been six years since the war ended.

Six years of living in Alexandria, carefully under everybody’s watch. Of being torn down and scrutinised for mistakes you’d made as a teenager. Not that you’d call them mistakes, maybe that was your biggest flaw, being too prideful.

Someone comes to collect the bounty, to which you hand over the bundle, not before untying one of the rabbits you’d personally shot. That one would make your dinner tonight, besides, you’d been promising Judith a lucky rabbits foot.

The man doesn’t speak to you, though you aren’t offended. You’ve never been a big fan of small talk. In your opinion, there are very few you have the patience to converse with, and as long as they were still interested, then nobody else mattered.

Speaking of people important to you.

In the distance, you could spot Negan plowing snow along the main road that ran through Alexandria. You internally rolled your eyes, knowing that they’d been giving him stupider and stupider jobs recently.

There’s another figure, a young boy, who’s been tasked with watching him. He sits on a porch, a few feet away, kicking at the frosty ground.

“Hey, you wanna take a break?” You ask him, standing in front of the young male. The rabbit is still slung from your shoulder, along with the bow on your back.

He looks a little confused with the suggestion, and maybe offput that you’re talking to him. “No, I’m.. alright, thank you.” He attempts to brush you off, though clearly remains wary, almost unsettled by your presence.

You roll your eyes this time, not willing to continue this pointless back and forth. “Fuck off, okay? Just for a few minuets. Go waste your time somewhere else.” You demand.

Only a second of glaring down at the boy and he’s scurried off, likely to tell someone of your hostility. That’s one benefit, at least, that not many are willing to engage in a physical altercation with you, as they’d all heard stories of the war.

As you turn around, you catch Negan already watching you. A smile spreads onto your face, despite his rugged appearance, and the snow all over your jacket.

“You’re gonna be in deep shit for that one, you know?” He tells you, as if it isn’t obvious, though his tone indicates that he is pleased to see you again.

Lately, you’d been finding Negan more often around Alexandria, usually gardening or doing some other boring maintenance task. Depending on who was around, you were even sometimes allowed to visit him in his cell.

It hadn’t been like that for a long time, though. For the first four years after the war, you weren’t allowed any sort of contact. It was hard, and you’d struggled with bouts of depression on particularly difficult days, but things were starting to look up again.

“I don’t really care.” You shrug, smile turning into a downright grin as you approach. “Can’t make me do anything worse than hunting in dead-winter.”

As you crossed the path, Negan’s smile grew tender. He extended his arm to you, palm cupping the back of your neck and thumb moving the snowy hair from your face.

Though he had many regrets, letting you get caught up in everything was the biggest. In many ways he felt like he’d failed his job, which was to foster and protect a young girl. Yet, time and time again, you were put in harms way.

“What about plowing snow?” Negan sarcastically suggests, leaning on the handle of his shovel. The notion made you frown, straightening out the blue shirt he wore.

“No jacket?” You question, brows furrowed while you looked up at him.

The concern on your face made Negan smile, having watched you grow from a reckless teenager to a conscious young woman. “Nah. I have thick skin, doll.”

Regardless, you roll your eyes, trying to swallow your concern as you look to the snowy path. “I’m gonna ask someone about getting you warmer clothes.”

“I should be the one that’s worried,” Negan points out, “Hunting in this weather? It’s like they’re tryna’ kill you.”

He says it with a slightly bitter tone, genuinely irritated despite the fact that you’ve lived quite comfortably in Alexandria over the years. More so than him, certainly. Yet, the concern makes you smile, regardless.

“Someone’s gotta do it,” You justify with a shrug, “Trust me, I tried to dodge. Been feeling kinda shitty recently.”

“Shitty?” He echos.

“Yeah. Just.. bleh, y’know?”

Negan gives you a stern look, “I don’t know.”

You roll your eyes, not wanting to worry him over something you’d already written off as insignificant. “Just feelin’ icky lately, maybe a bit nauseous. I think this weathers fucking me up.

This causes him to let up a little, though you don’t miss the smug grin on Negan’s face as he continues to shovel snow. “Don’t sound like the weather,” He remarks, “Sure you aren’t pregnant? You and Carl are probably breedin’ like bunnies now you’re living together.”

The vulgar attitude never usually phased you, but this time your brow furrowed, glaring over at the man. “Don’t be gross.” You grumbled.

Luckily, Negan lets up, knowing this may be a soft spot for you. “Fine, I’m just teasing, doll. But you’ll tell me if it gets worse?”

“Yeah,” You agree, hoisting the supplies on your back a little higher. “I’ve gotta go get this rabbit skinned. And I’ll see about that jacket, okay?”

In return, he gives you a semi-enthusiastic thumbs up, though you know the emotion isn’t there. It makes you smile. You’ve truly missed him over these years, and seeing the toll imprisonments had on his attitude is jarring.

Nonetheless, you treck further into the community, locating your place. The small house sits near the back end, away from the main commotion, which you’ve grown to appreciate over time. Originally, you stayed there with Aaron, who was tasked with keeping an eye on you.

Then it was Rosita, and occasionally Tara. Back then, you were equally rude and hostile, and made a point to prove your disdain towards the entire situation. Of course, over the years, those walls melted away and you were forced into a state of acceptance.

Now, there was nobody watching over you. At least not in the safety of your own home. With the rate he was over, Carl practically lived there, though you knew he just didn’t like being in his own house with Rick gone. You’d understand how that would be unsettling.

The door creaked when you opened it, the haul causing you to bump it open with your hip. You dumped the bag at the door, and managed to unhook the bow with one hand.

You ventured further inside, intending to throw the dead rabbit onto the back porch to skin it. But you barely made it three steps down before your mission was halted, two arms snatched around your waist and tugging you back into a firm body.

“Jesus,” You huffed, “I didn’t hear you.”

Carl looks down, eyeing the left side of your head, completely flattened with the absence of an ear. “Shit. Sorry.” He apologised, having momentarily forgot in his haste to greet you.

The injury had thankfully healed, but your eardrum was ruined beyond repair. You were completely deaf from one side.

“I’m also wielding a dead rabbit, so watch out.” You remind him, shimming in his hold so that you’re face to face, though you hold the rabbit at an arms length away from his body.

“Then.. is this a bad time to kiss you?” He asks, and though it sounds genuine, the little smirk on his face indicates that your answer doesn’t matter.

You roll your eyes, a smile growing on your own face. Somehow, after all these years, you still get all bashful. “Never a bad time.”

No matter how much time passed, his lips would always feel perfect on your own. Carl kissed you like you were precious, made of porcelain, and the idea that someone was capable of being so gentle excited you. That, and it let you take control, something you lacked in your current life.

You shimmied your spare hand out of the snowy glove, so that you could wrap it around his neck. Lately, Carl had been letting you trim his hair, though you opted to keep it that same shoulder length, thinking it made him just adorable. He wore the bandage less, too, at least when at home.

Coming up for air, Carl pressed another tender kiss to your cheek, holding you a little closer. “Your hand is really cold.” He whispered.

In response, you dragged your palm over his face, squishing the cold flesh into his cheek. He groaned, finally letting go of you, seeeking reprieve from your snowy fingers.

You were finally able to continue down the hallway, though his footsteps followed right behind.

“Do you want to catch dinner with everyone?” He asked, “They’re cooking the rabbits down by the church.”

“I hate everyone.” You point out, bracing yourself against the cold air outdoors. There’s a metal peg hanging from the back porch, which you affix the rope onto, allowing the rabbit to dangle from its feet.

You can hear Carl has stopped behind you, leaning against the back door. “Besides, I think I wanna stay in. Still feelin’ kinda rough.” You say with a shrug.

It’s like a fish on a hook, where Carl can’t resist clinging to every little word you say. “Still? Do you need to see a doctor?” He suggests, worry in his tone.

Trying to ease his concern, you let go of the rabbit, giving Carl your full attention. “I don’t think so. I’m sure it’s nothing. A cold.”

Carl takes this as permission to dig deeper, wanting to find the root of this issue. He approaches, one hand settling on your hip, the other feeling your forehead. Though your temperature feels fine, he still remarks, “You don’t look like you have a cold.”

“Okay, genius. When did you get your degree?” You quip, the snappy attitude earning you an unamused glare, though it only takes a second before Carl is kissing your forehead, where his hand was.

It irritates you to no end that he’s so forgiving. But over time, Carl has learnt that you get defensive easily, expressed in irritated remarks that can turn borderline cruel. It’s his sign that something is wrong, but he needs to back off for the time being.

“I’ll skin the rabbit. You can lie down.” He suggests.

Your eyes narrow into a glare, not liking the insinuation that you can’t handle it. Though, you’re unable to be properly angry, knowing that he is trying to help. “Thank you.” You end up whispering in agreement, setting aside your pride for the time being.

With that aside, you decided to go and clean up from the hunt. There were little bloodstains on your jacket, so you left it hanging in the laundry for now, intending to deal with it later. Your boots were left at the door, and you quickly walked into the bedroom, intending to wiggle out of the snowy clothes.

Your hair was slightly damp, scalp a little sore from having it tied up all day. So, you padded into the bathroom, hoping to have a hot shower. But the second you looked in the mirror, you remembered what Negan had suggested. Albeit jokingly, but he still said it.

It was like a cruel history repeating itself. Being pregnant was a death sentance, in your eyes. Your own mother had died of birth complications, and that was before the apocalypse. That’s not to mention Lori.

Just the idea made you feel sick again. Scrounging through the bathroom cabinet, you found the beat-up packaging of a pregnancy test you’d stashed after finding it on a run. Just looking at it, all decorated in pink, made you feel worse.

You left it on the counter, hoping a shower would clear your head.

It didn’t.

The test was taunting you, staring at you through the foggy frosted glass of the shower. As much as you hated the notion, it wouldn’t leave your mind unless you got it over with. It was time to bite the bullet.

Still soaking wet from the shower, you fumbled with the box, hands shaking as you read the instructions. Whilst you peed into the little cup, you thought back to all the times you’d been intimate with Carl. The pair of you were relatively safe. But, maybe… maybe there’d been a few times you slipped up.

God, Negan was right. The pair of you were animals. It was like a late puberty, you couldn’t help it, you wanted to jump him at every opportunity. And now, this was your punishment.

A positive pregnancy test.

More like an execution date.

You spend a good ten minutes sitting on the bathroom floor, this indescribable weight on your chest. It gets heavier as time goes by, and you convince yourself that you may actually be unable to breathe if this continues.

Pulling on some clothes, you slowly inch from the bathroom, hair and skin still wet, though that doesn’t matter anymore. You can’t tell Carl, but at the same time, you need to.

You come to a stop at the back of the house, and before you can open the door, you notice Judith through the window. She’s sitting on the porch, talking with Carl as he attempts to skin the rabbit. His technique isn’t very good, but she doesn’t know any better. You hadn’t heard her come in, too busy wallowing in your own panic.

She stands, accepting a knife that Carl offers her, attempting to mimic his actions and take a chunk of fur off the rabbit. Judith struggles, not having the right angle, causing an uneven slice through the rabbits thigh.

Finally, you give in, pushing the door open. “You two are gonna butcher my rabbit.”

Judith turns to you, an eager smile on her face. She offers the knife, handle up like she’d been taught, “Show me?”

Though you accept the knife, Carl interjects, “She’s just had a shower, Jude.” He points out.

“It’s fine,” You assure them, rolling up the sleeves of your pyjama shirt despite the biting cold, “I’ll wash off with the hose. Now watch me, both of you.”

You teach the siblings how to properly skin a rabbit, explaining little tips and answering all of Judith’s questions. Though you’d come here to break some terrible news, you somehow find yourself feeling a little better. Watching Carl try and teach Judith something was heartwarming, and you wondered if he’d be this attentive with his own child.

That, and making Judith an aunt would be a gift in itself.

Later that night, you walk Judith back to her house, where Michonne was already waiting for her. She seemed relieved to know Judith was with you and Carl, given the girl had a tendency to investigate into some of the darker cracks of Alexandria.

There was still that one, heavy piece of information weighing on your mind. Though, it seemed to get lighter and lighter as time went on. When it came time to sleep, you were comfortably nestled against Carl’s side, your head resting on his shoulder.

The words were right there, on the tip of your tongue. It would be so easy to blurt out, yet you felt like doing some preemptive damage control.

“Would you ever wanna have kids?” You ask in a whisper, almost completely inaudible.

Given the circumstances, Carl finds the inquiry pretty strange. He shifts a little, laying on his side, so that you’re forced to face him.

“Maybe.” He says, though he sounds a little unsure of himself.

But maybe isn’t a no.

You stay silent for a moment, unsure of how to proceed now that you’ve gotten your answer. The silence causes Carl to grow curious, curious as to what has sparked this sudden interest.

“Do you?” He asks, looking you right in the eye, which makes you squirm a little.

Everything points towards your admission, but you can’t force the words from your mouth. So you just lay there, watching him, looking a little pent up and almost slightly guilty.

Fortunately, Carl isn’t stupid. He’s quite attentive, actually, especially when it comes to your health.

That, and he’d already found the empty test box in the bathroom, crumpled into the wastebin.

“C’mon.” He whispers, pulling you back into him, arms wrapped around your form. His hand makes its way into your hair, fingers twirling in the strands, keeping your head pressed firmly against his chest.

Carl swallows the lump in his throat, similarly unable to address the issue at hand. But maybe you’d rather he didn’t. “I love you, okay?” He ends up whispering, words uttered against the crown of your head.

You muster a little nod, shifting to worm your arms around his torso. You mirror his tone, quiet and hoarse, though that weight is finally beginning to disappear.

“I love you, too.”

[thatscarletflycatcher]

There's something that has been gnawing at me since I saw some comments on the look-how-they-massacred-them poll for Daniel Sousa -with which I didn't want to engage then and there because I really didn't want to pick up a fight with another Daniel fan, there's few enough of us, but also because the argument was very difficult to articulate.

It is difficult to explain how Daniel Sousa is screwed over by Endgame without making it look like either "he deserved Peggy as a prize" or "he was the perfect prize for Peggy", because it all begins by understanding the experience of WWII and the building of the morale of WWII. Something that Markus and McFeely seemed to perfectly understand in Agent Carter, which inclines me to believe it was specific insistence of the Russos, whose concept of narrative and storytelling is at the level of a belligerent and not very bright 4 year old, that gave us that mindblowingly stupid "happy ending" for Cap and Peggy. Or maybe Markus and McFeely are just arcane creatures, at times intelligent and at times really dumb. Anyways.

Point is that both CATFA and Agent Carter understand that for these characters, fighting WWII is a matter of "each doing their bit", of, as Steve put it in The Avengers, to lay on the barbed wire so the one that comes after you can pass on. And in the process of doing that, you have great loses and suffer great grief. The price of war is immense, and for these people the price of war is the price of freedom (yes, that celebrated Steve speech from CATWS is also sharing in that same spirit. It's kind of impressive how until that awful mess of Endgame, the perspective of Steve as a character from movie to movie is one that addresses how some 1940s things are outdated, but how many others are still relevant and inspiring. It is a surprisingly nuanced take on History, that of course the Russo "Cap is an outdated relic that belongs in the past and should stay there" brothers don't seem to have what's needed to grasp).

In that context, the most coherent tone for Steggy is tragedy. Because that is what happened to many, many, many people during the war. You meet, you fall in love fast, because there is no time. And then suddenly the other is gone, never to come back. And all the promises of youth and life and future the other person represented, are gone with them. People who lived through 2020-2022 have some idea of what it is like for projects, opportunities, and years of your life to just vanish. Now you make that five years, eight months, and to mention "just" the British, 1 out every 100 people live in 1939, dead, and over 350.000 permanently disabled. If you were 20 in 1939, your life would be practically on hold till you were 26. It's a whole lot of grief, and an intense grief, that you don't solve the way you solve a random missing connection in a romcom like Serendipity or The Lake House. Doing so is cheapening and bastardizing the grief and trauma of a whole generation of people in different countries.

So, Agent Carter. Here we have a story focused on a group of people, spies, who, in different fronts and with different outcomes, made it through the war and are now facing this new world they are living in, and all the grief of their respective losses. The focus of the story is Peggy, a woman who, like many others, was allowed a wide range of action during the war, and is now subconsiously perceived as a threat by many of her male coworkers. It's a desperate bid to "go back to the way things were before", and her presence is a constant reminder that they can't.

Sousa occupies a very similar position to Peggy's: he's also a reminder that the war happened and that there is no way back, no magic solution, no pretending. And that's why both are ignored, and displaced, and why both struggle to prove themselves in a subconscious way while living by the continued principle that they are doing their bit. That is their lifeline that keeps them sane and working all throughout s1 of Agent Carter.

That's what we mean when we say Peggy and Sousa are equals, and that Sousa is contented with letting her have the spot; not because he's her inferior or her dependant, but because he's her equal -in intelligence, in ideals, in resourcefulness, in loyalty, but also in their relative positions in the power ladder- and does not feel threatened by her because of it.

(It is in this context, btw, that Peggy's rebuke of Daniel's "rescue" of her in the first episode must be understood. Because she was once treated like any other officer/agent of her same rank, she has knee jerk reactions to both being demeaned and being protected. It's also an important theme of that beginning of the series that Peggy needs to learn to let her friends in, and that she needs their help, and that that doesn't make her too weak to protect and defend them.)

But also, in another way, when we talk about Sousa becoming Peggy's husband, it has to do with the sentiment Krezminsky expresses in the series:

The ship of Steggy had sailed and was gone forever since the moment Steve became the legend in the ice and Peggy "Cap's Girl", this embodiment of the ridiculous damsel in distress we hear in the radio drama that plays on one of the episodes: Peggy fell in love with Steve when he was a scrawny, sickly lad, because she loved the man he was inside, but now forever for the world she is just another superficial, weak girl lusting after the handsome godlike rescuer, the picture of the eugenic dream of the übermensch. In Daniel Peggy loves and finds all the same things she found and loved in Steve, but in a different light, because Sousa is a different person, with a different life story, plus something else: they have both gone through war and its loss and grief, and come to the other side in need of rebuilding and finding new meaning in life and hope for the future.

In a world where the Dark, Tall and Handsome Hero of the Six Pack, Alpha Dominance and Endless Stamina reigns supreme, Sousa as a love interest is a remarkable and -sadly- bold statement about the things that truly matter in finding one's life partner.

So I think here is a reasonable point to start talking about Sousa in Agents of SHIELD. Because here's where someone would rationally say "well, but you see, there he's also chosen as a love interest!", and the reasons why context in AoS changes everything are multiple, so let's go there.

But before that, let me make clear that I do wholeheartedly believe the writers of AoS meant to honor Sousa, and sincerely tried to do their best with what they were given. That doesn't change what the end product ended up doing and saying about him.

Like Peggy is the main character of Agent Carter, so Daisy is the main character of Agents of SHIELD. As much as you can say all the team characters are important and get the focus, Daisy is the one which the narrative insists on making the focal point, as the arcs of several seasons hinge on her, and we are expected to sympathize with her first and foremost in any situation in which she is personally involved. But unlike Peggy, Daisy is a superpowered individual. She's more like Steve than Peggy; she's practically a demigod. She is capable of ripping Earth apart with just her hands. Where Peggy and Sousa were equals in the power ladder in-universe, in AoS the distance between Daisy and Sousa is abysmal. That imbalance is the first thing that leads to Sousa being put in the position of Daisy's Boy. The fact that he ends up in space with Daisy's last minute sister who is ALSO an inhuman does not help things.

As a side note, there's something to be said about futuristic prosthetics in AoS and how they interesect with disability. But I'd rather not get into it because it is a thorny subject and I don't feel qualified to speak of it.

In a different way, Daniel being Peggy's love interest in Agent Carter is balanced out by his having a life of his own and many interactions with other characters throughout the series. He pursues his own lines of investigation, he conducts interrogations of his own, he comes up with plans, he teams up with Krezminsky and with Thompson and in s2 he has downright made a life for himself as chief in California with a fiancé and all. There is a clear sense that he exists as a character outside of pining for Peggy.

In AoS, the opposite happens. Part of it is owed to the writers writing themselves into a corner: to take Sousa out of his timeline, they have to do it in such a way that his disappearance is inconspicuous, which means killing him. They do it the best way they can think of, honoring his alertness and intelligence, by making him realize HYDRA is infiltrated in SHIELD decades before anyone else does. But as a consequence, Sousa becomes the man out of time: there's no future for him, because he has died, and unlike Steve, he's not being brought back because he himself is required. They just save him because they take pity on him and the tragedy of his life. So he has no mission and no significant previous connection with anyone on the team. One of the concrete things in which this is evidenced the most is with the switch from being addressed as chief Sousa to Agent Sousa. He was chief, but between that SHIELD and this SHIELD there's not such a connection by which he can claim that title. There's no subordinates to manage. So he's sort of default-called agent without really being a proper agent.

So the writers choose the fish-out-of-water concept for him. Which is far fetched. This guy lived through wwii in a high spy setting where intelligence has knowledge of powerful interstellar aliens. He's most definitely not bewildered by phone cameras, guys. He would quickly adapt... if, again, you know, he was brought back for a mission. But the reality is that from a Doylist POV, he was brought in to be Daisy's love interest, and the only thing he can offer to her, in this huge power imbalance I have pointed out, is chivalrous manners and quaint WWII style references like when he tells her "Agent Johnson, we are going home"; both can be very charming to a modern woman, but they are things that highlight the cultural and psychological distances that separate them, and make it glaringly obvious that they have barely anything in common.

The series tries desperately to give them common ground in the time-loop episode, with this idea that Daisy is like Peggy because she sacrifices herself for others and to protect others all the time. Which is laughable because, again, in Daisy's condition of beloved main character that embodies the tortured, quasi byronic heroine that we understand to be the hallmark of about one half of the contemporary superhero type, the narrative and the characters in it bend all sorts of ways to accommodate her, not the other way around. Peggy's type is different because it is rooted in that WWII morale/frame I was talking about at the beginning of the post.

As a consequence of all of this, Sousa barely interacts with anyone that isn't Daisy (he has of personal scenes, what? one or two with Coulson, the scene where Jemma gives him a new prosthetic, and then he's given an idea to give to Mac in the finale. I don't remember any other non-Daisy ones), has no unique role to fulfill in the mission (specially because so much of the plan is entwined in Fitz and Jemma's rescue plan that was NOT counting with Sousa) and no personal goal to achieve, which weakens his standing as a character outside the romance plot, and when it comes to the romance plot, he has nothing in common with Daisy, and he brings nothing to the partnership other than... narratively forced love, and chivalrousness.

In the end, Daniel, who was a character and a person of relevance in Agent Carter, is nerfed and turned into a prop for the rushed happily ever after of the main character of AoS. And that, in my books, is being screwed over. That's what makes his becoming Peggy's husband and building a life and a future with her a much better and more preferable outcome for Daniel; he gets to build a life of meaning by his own significant work and significant connections, in his own time and place, with a wife who is his equal and with other people that have lived through the same collective experiences of trauma and grief he did.

[weirdgirl92]

Let me get this one thing off my chest

I have been a fan of the Naruto series since 2006, when I was just barely a sophmore in high school), and in 2014, I was so happy to have seen my biggest anime ship at the time (NaruHina) finally become canon. That being said, the Boruto manga/anime for me has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment.

Hinata went from being this brave, selfless girl to a complete pushover who barely interacts with her own son, and Naruto just kept border lining into deadbeat dad territory. Boruto himself was a character I used to really like, before I eventually realized he was just a carbon copy of Naruto (and would eventually go on to be a carbon copy of Sasuke after the time skip).

Sarada and Mitsuki were characters that I also used to really like. Mitsuki at least got some development in the first few seasons of the anime, while the manga just keeps treating him like an afterthought in favor of BoruSara. Speaking of which, am I the only one who finds BoruSara to be overrated in terms of Naruto ships? I’m not trying to say that no one else is allowed to ship it, you have your reasons, and I respect that. I just personally find BoruSara to be really cliché and way too derivative of other Naruto ships (especially SasuSaku, SasuNaru, NaruSaku and MinaKushi). Plus, I’m kinda sick of the whole “best friends to lovers” thing between the main boy and the main girl. One of the things that made the original Naruto manga so refreshing to me, was the fact that Naruto grew to accept Sakura’s feelings for Sasuke and remained good friends with her in spite of that.

So far, the only characters in Boruto that continue to be interesting to me are Sumire and Himawari. The former has one of the best backstories in the entire Naruto franchise and she still continues to be useful in the manga, despite only being a side character, and the latter has been getting SO much great character development in the manga so far. And best of all, neither of these girls have their characters tied down by a romantic relationship with a boy (and let’s face it, the last thing this fandom needs is more shipping wars). So, I am going to be REALLY pissed if Kishimoto ever decides to undo all of their development like he did with Hinata and Sakura in the very same manga.

I’m warning you, Kishimoto…if you even TRY to screw over Sumire and Himawari in favor of a male character, that’s the last time I’m ever gonna read something of yours.

[moretheta]

Honestly at this point i'm pronouncing "hxh has no noteworthy female characters" to be an ice cold, bottom of the barrel take. 

Come on a journey with me. 

Anyone who knows me in real life (which is hopefully almost no one on here) knows how insane I am when it comes to female characters getting shafted in media- and in shonen manga specifically. No doubt a side effects of being a girl who's favorite character was sakura in the 2015 naruto fandom- but that's another story. The point is I'm not coming at this from a "boo hoo why so woke" standpoint, or an "it's really not the deep" mentality. I care about this shit- truly i do. which is exactly why the way people talk about this issue bothers me so much. 

I distinctly remover being 13 or so when I saw HxH pop up on netflix (or some other streaming service, i don't remember) and looking at the title card with Gon, Killua, Kurapika, and Leorio and thinking "huh. no women?" bc damn, even nart had women (they were written misogynistically, shafted from the narrative, and treated like fucking pariahs by fans... but they were there), and at the time i had a disease where I couldn't dedicate time towards watching something unless it had a prominent female character for me to latch on to. that disease is called ~being tired of misogyny~ and i'm still a carrier to this day. so this past version of me wanted to do some research, so i looked up something like "does HxH have female characters." I saw one of two responses: 1) sadly no. and 2. no, shut up snowflake.

I honestly don't remember what finally pushed me over the edge to start watching it, but i'm so so glad i did. had several queer awakenings. a very formative time for me, etc. aaaaaallll that is to say: I get it. I’ve been there. i don't withhold criticism from a show just because i like it. 

Because it's true that HxH had no female characters... in 1998, when it's started it's serialization. like there were a few background women and also Mito, but that's it, that's all we got. and for a while that's what we would continue to get: every female character introduced seemed to exist as a cog in the wheel of one of the main male characters' storylines. even characters who i love very much and think have a lot of potential, like Canary, only seemed to show up briefly to supplement Killua's narrative and then leave. all of this is true. 

But the thing people need to realize about Hunter x Hunter is that it has been going on for a long time.  The chimera ant arc concluded it's serialization in 2012. and with the hiatuses that became necessary due to Togashi's health, it meant publishing continued really slowly. this current arc of the manga- the succession war- has been going on since 2017- (arguably longer, if you count the expedition arc as a prelude which i personally kinda do), but either way we have over half a decade of real time years that have passed. and one of the things i really admire about Togashi is his ability to grow as an author- to take in feedback and improve where he needed to improve. We can see it, for instance, in his history of writing queer characters- trans characters in particular. See this great video for a further breakdown.

There’s more to be said on this topic but that’s for another day. This isn’t an “in defense of Togashi” post, he’ll be ok. It’s the female characters themselves that I must rise up and defend. I fight an endless war on an empty battlefield, population Me, and this is my life’s purpose.

What I am trying to say is this: HxH is not the same series it was in 1998. It’s not the same series as it was in 2011. And what we have seen as the series progressed, was the introduction and elevation of more and more interesting female characters. This has culminated in what very well might be my favorite arc in the series -unfinished as it is- the succession war. and, without giving away any spoilers, I just have to say……

THERE ARE SO MANY WONDERFUL WOMEN. DO YOU SEE THEM?!!? DO YOU SEE MY BEAUTIFUL WIVES?!? MY LARGE AUTOMOBILES MY-

I cannot fathom how anyone who is caught up with the manga continues to parrot this take. Why would you say that. Why would you do this to our women. There are soosososo sososoooo many fantastic female characters, old and new, and more are added literally every chapter because togashi loves it when I (me specifically) have to make more flashcards. There are female protagonists, antagonists, supporting characters, antiheroes, etc. women with all different kinds of personalities and motivations that don’t feel like a copy-pasted trope. Women who (gasp!) come in different shapes and sizes!?!? Women who don’t fit the traditional standards of beauty are just as important and just as beloved as those who do. and because I’m a crazy person I have gone around and calculated “screen time” (page time?) as well as ratios of male to female characters and folks the numbers are looking good. There was a point in time when I tried to memorize the names and faces of every single female character on the wiki (see above note on flashcards) because again, I’m a crazy person, and it just made me realize how incredible this ensemble cast is looking right now and how excited I am to see more of them. I am the succession war’s biggest glazer so yes, obviously I come with a bias; but here me when I tell you this: you want more well-written, prominently featured, multidimensional female characters in your little shonens (bad place to look, but unfortunately I am the biggest offender of this) please for god’s sake. For god’s sake read the manga.  

So yeah. Sick and fucking tired of seeing people say “HxH has no women” They’re there babe!!!! They’re there!!! You wanna say some shit like that, at least put a caveat of *up until the end of the anime so that people know that information is eight years out of date. yeah watch me be petty. It just astounds me that someone could look me in the eyes and tell me that Melody, Bisky, Theta, Morena, Oito, Woble, Kacho, Fugetsu, Camilla, Machi, Pakunoda, Alluka, Komugi, Kite(yes welcome), Cheadle, Canary, and now Longhi have no importance in the narrative.

It’s true that there is always a time and a place for criticism…  but why does it seem like there’s only five of us trapped in here in this room who are excited to talk about the potential for Theta x Vorksen work situationship... on the ethics of Morena's class war, or an Oito Phantom Troupe connection, or the thematic implications of the madonna being juxtaposed with the antichrist and also maybe satan. Yeah so we're trapped in this room and it's great but occasionally I'll hear shouting from the outside and it's some horrible take or the same unfunny, super gross joke, or some guy who thinks netero setting off a nuke was "peak aura" or smth. And we're still in here, beckoning, offering shelter from the storm.

All you gotta do is open the doors and start taking notes.

[eskawrites]

is it foolish of me to believe that in the celebrity fake dating au several years in the future once the very first fanfic site is up there is a large uptick in erathia sales and tenar/lark becomes a popular ship

not only is it extremely un-foolish of you, anon, it's also completely on point. like, you have no idea. this is something that has been in my notes since basically the beginning of this fic.

like, i think robin in particular has always been a role model for girls since the erathia films, and it's absolutely my headcanon (actual canon?) that there's a small part of her fan base that's just lesbians exchanging knowing looks with each other and quietly wishing her the best.

i also fully believe there was a tenar/lark fandom basically as soon as the second movie came out. after all, nancy and robin put a lot of thought and effort into making their characters' dynamic something more than the usual 'two women fighting over the male protagonist.' (fun fact this is partially inspired by the making of wicked the musical and how glinda and elphaba could've been typical catty opponents and instead became incredible foils who present the show's great love story). combine that with their natural chemistry, and gay/bi women would easily read their relationship as a potentially romantic one. catch a bunch of women in the late 80s/early 90s passing around fanzines a la early Star Trek fandom or something

anyway i could talk about this forever but i probably shouldn't. instead, here's the actual semi-polished lil write up i made a few weeks back:

Tenar and Lark—Nancy and Robin’s movie characters—actually have a bit of a fandom going on and have since the 80s. The fandom only grows when Robin comes out, and then when she and Nancy go public with their relationship (in fact, there’s a bit of a conspiracy for a while in early 1998—Nancy and Robin aren’t hiding anything, but they’re not confirming anything through interviews, either. So when paparazzi photos start coming out of them holding hands and going out together, most of the public is like ‘oh gals being pals’ but a not insignificant number of Erathia fans know what’s up). Anyway, as Robin and Nancy become more serious, more and more people rewatch the Erathia movies and see their characters in a new light. Suddenly all the work Nancy and Robin put into building their characters and creating a three-dimensional friendship between Tenar and Lark translates into the potential for something deeper. Tenar and Lark become one of the most iconic wlw couples, kind of on par with something like Xena on Gabrielle. In the early 2000s, someone asks Scott Clarke what he thinks of Tenar and Lark, and he just chuckles and says it makes sense and he wishes he saw it way back when.

(there are probably some spin-off books, eventual prequel/sequel series, etc and so on that come out--the erathia films were originally based off of the star wars trilogy, after all. and you bet your ass that in all of those, tenar and lark are completely in love)

[cheesecakeluvrs]

-Why SaNa over LuNa and SanPu-

This post is not meant to start any fights because shipping wars are stupid but these are just my personal opinions on why I prefer Sana over Luna and Sanpu (or mostly why I don’t ship Luna and Sanpu because there isn’t a lot of Sana in here)

-LuNa

One main reason I don’t ship Luffy and Nami is because I could never see Luffy settling down. Him getting married or getting with someone I believe would be too restricting for him. Being bound to someone eternally just doesn’t seem like something Luffy would ever do.

The second main reason is just the simple fact of they haven’t shown romantic interest in each other at all. I am very picky when it comes to my ships and I don’t just choose two random friends, the one thing I need is for them to actually have feelings or the possibility of feelings. Even in friends to lovers stories when they were friends there was still a little bit of romantic tension, that is just something I don’t see with Luffy and Nami.

The third main reason and the smallest one is just more of my opinion but I don’t think that Oda is the kind of person to just have the male and female leads then put them together.

Ok finnaly I will be going over evidence Luna shippers use and why I don’t believe it.

Luffy and Nami wearing crown in color spreads

In my opinion this is probably the best evidence for Luna but I think it’s just that Luffy is yk obviously king like king of pirates and Nami is like his right hand girl or like the second captian. She is also seen wearing lots of crown because she loves money, plus if you want to use the king and queen thing then we should add Zoro into the mix because he’s “The king of hell”. Overall, pretty solid evidence but I think it’s just Nami being his right hand girl or also weather queen, I just don’t think this suggest anything romantic.

That is probably the one piece of Luna evidence I don’t find completely stupid so here is some other pieces of evidence ranked from stupid to super stupid. Warning: this is a lot of me just roasting luna

Nami wearing the straw hat. This one is just simple, other people have worn the straw hat too. Not even just Roger and Shanks. Like on the crew both Usopp and Robin have worn it so it’s not specific to Nami.

Nami calling out to Luffy and that’s why he awakens. What? This one is just weird plus Luna shippers always like to bring up how their ship is done dirty in the anime yet this was MUCH different in the manga.

Nami looking at Luffy ‘lovingly’. Uhm ok. The term ‘lovingly’ without any blushing or anything is a little much. I think it’s just simply her smiling and posing while looking off lol.

Luffy and Nami looking like parents here. For how weird this one is it is surprisingly brought up a lot. This one again is simple, just Luffy being the main character and Nami’s love for kids.

And finally my least favorite evidence of all. Nami being similar to Rouge or more specifically having flowers in her hair. Huh? First, Nami is nothing like Rouge, Rouge is very calm while Nami is very hot headed. Plus for mostly every character in One Piece looking like Nami and rouge definitely not looking anything like her I don’t think that’s the best piece of evidence. Don’t even get me started when it comes to the flower.

-Sanpu

This one will be shorter and more opinionated but even so in my opinion I think that luna is more likely to happen then sanpu.

There is one main reason why I don’t ship or think Sanpu is going to happen and I just think it wipes out any possibility of them being together. That one reason being Nami, Unless you have been watching/reading with your eyes closed then it is painfully obvious that Nami is Sanji’s #1. It’s honestly kinda sad watching people trying to debate this because it’s so clear. Just a few examples there is Sanji always calling Nami’s name first before any other women, Nami being the only person he uses the san honorific on, the only one he asks if she is in love with him and in fan requested cover pages he always adds Sanji simpin for Nami despite her not being in the request but he only adds other women if it is requested. Those of course are just a few examples but I even feel stupid just having to prove that. So if Oda did all to show that Nami is his #1 why would he just turn around and make him be with another women.

The second reason is just their relationship in wci didn’t feel romantic. You could also say I’m biased because around wci was when I started shipping Sanji and Nami so I was kinda just not caring about any other relationship with Sanji but still the scenes in wci didn’t feel romantic. Obviously Pudding had feelings for Sanji but unless I missed something a lot of the affection he was giving back to Pudding was him simping for her body. There wasn’t a lot of him actually complementing her for her, of course it was there but just not very much.

People also just use the fact that Pudding has feelings for Sanji as evidence of why they are going to be together and I think there has to be a little more to it then just her having feelings, I’ve also done some other things about Sanji not ‘actually’ loving other women but that’s a different topic.

-So why sana?

This one is going to be almost completely opinionated. So first I’ll just get out my opinion on ships. I love ships that have a nice amount of evidence to it so I can think about it for a long time but even if it’s canon it’s not canon until the end so I can make little theories about them and yell at my old enemies that I was right the whole time.

Sana is almost completely about the little things of the story, if you watch it not focusing that much then of course you’re not going to see why people ship them. Sana shippers love color spreads and little things in the background of the manga. Once again my preference but I LOVE THE LITTLE THINGS, sometimes of course it can be right in front of your face which again is why some of these things can feel a little out of place while they actually aren’t.

This isn’t meant to be like “If you don’t ship sana then you clearly just aren’t watching/reading hard enough” lol, shipping is all up to preference and you can ship whatever you want to ship. It is just always important to remember that shipping really isn’t that serious and even though I love them and love writing about them it’s not what One Piece is about. (Sorry for most of this just being me insulting Luna and not being about why I ship Sana lol)

[rp-partnerfinder]

hello! i am looking for a couple more threads set in the elder scrolls. firstly, a bit more about me: i am 25 year old woman who hails from the USA, and i have been writing for 13 years. i work full-time and also have some pretty meaty projects that i chip away at in my free time, though i am still pretty good at getting at least a few posts out per week. i am pretty private about my personal information, though i am always eager to chat ooc via whichever platform we choose to connect on.

i am highly uncomfortable with the idea of writing with anybody under 21, so please meet that requirement if reaching out -- my characters deal frequently with mature themes, and i prefer for the person i am writing opposite to to be around the range that i am as far as life experience goes.

writing style: i love writing lit, long-form replies in the third person. i am not picky about present/past tense, and honestly i have this awful habit of flipping back and forth, though if you prefer one over the other i am happy to try and accommodate. i really don't prefer a certain length, in fact i think that it's nice to have shorter-form posts for dialogue-heavy scenes and longer-form for stuff that isn't dialogue heavy.

platform: i haven't dipped my feet into these waters in quite some time; i have a few long-term partners that i write with over both discord and email, and so i am very familiar with those. that being said, i really don't mind going one way or the other for platform -- if you are interested in everything else here but want something different just let me know! i honestly miss tumblr rping a lot hahah, so i may be open to doing something with that.

setting: i really don't have a specific preference for exactly where in tamriel our thread takes place, but right now i am looking specifically for something set in the fourth era. my characters tend to be well-traveled versus homebodies, and so they can really be found anywhere. the thread can focus on the events that take place in skyrim, or they could have nothing to do with it at all! the main reason i want to focus on the 4e is because many of the details regarding my muses are contingent on details related to the great war and the third dominion.

content preferences: so, my bread and butter is threads which focus a lot on the political happenings of tamriel. i love political dissidents, corruption, that sort of thing. I am also a huge fan of romanticism and adventure. my writing is usually focused heavily on characters versus worldbuilding or plot; i love to get deep into the psyche of flawed individuals and either allow the course of events that take place to build them up or tear them down further. i love romance, but it really isn't a must at all -- the biggest priority is character development.

character preferences: my characters tend to be heavily flawed individuals whose actions and behavior would at best deem them morally grey. they can deal with issues such as addiction, morality struggles, mental health issues, and skeletons in the closet. i have two in particular that I am hoping to flesh out by writing them: an altmer male and a bosmer female. i usually lean to M// but M/F is great too, i really don't mind as far as this goes BUT i will say that i really don't enjoy determining the relationship dynamic (sub/dom, that sort of thing) in advance -- that sort of skews the focus from where it should be, in my opinion. i greatly prefer to let them figure it out authentically through interaction.

like i said above, i can write adult themes, but romance is not a must and i am just as happy with fade-to-black as well. if love scenes are included, i'd just ask that they are not the main focus, and that plot takes precedence either 80/20 or 60/40.

i'd love to share more about my characters and plot ideas if anyone is interested in getting something put together here!! please feel free to interact with the post if any of it caught your eye!

.

[transformatives]

Queer Transformation in the Online Supernatural Fan-Community

The whiteboard at the front of the dusty classroom read out “PTSD” in big black letters. My class was on the mental health unit of seventh grade health, a topic which caused some to snicker but which made me and my group of newly queer, feminist, staunchly liberal friends nod in approval. The teacher, a coach with thinning hair, asked if anybody knew anything about PTSD. My friend, a fellow nerd, raised her hand and quickly went into a spiel about a book she read about the blossoming love between two male characters that was tragically cut short by one of the characters being drafted into the Vietnam War. With a start, I remembered what we had been discussing recently and with a sick jolt it hit me: my friend was talking about Supernatural fanfiction in front of our entire class. 

Supernatural is an action-adventure drama series that debuted in 2005 and ran for 15 years. It follows two brothers, Dean and Sam Winchester, as they trek across the U.S.A. in search of supernatural monsters to hunt, and it later evolved into something resembling bible fanfiction as the main cast was expanded to include angels, demons, and other biblical entities. Though it was originally written to appeal to a mostly conservative, middle american, male audience, it was quickly picked up by a younger, female, queer, and internet-savvy audience that would go on to create incredibly heartfelt transformative works about queerness, homophobia, and mental health. However, the journey there is a complicated one.

In 1973, film theorist Laura Mulvey coined the term “male gaze” as a form of media creation that “portrays women as objects and nothing more”. I believe that Laura Mulvey would agree that Supernatural falls directly into the space of the male gaze. Its depictions of women relegated them to a few limiting roles, likely due to the male dominated writer’s room and intended audience. These roles included: the deceased mother, the blushing virgin, the deceased girlfriend, the hooker with a heart of gold, the evil demon, the deceased almost-girlfriend, etc etc (are we seeing a pattern here?). While there were a few standout female characters, such as the nerdy hacker lesbian Charlie or the charmingly midwestern Donna, the general rule of Supernatural was that if there was a female character, she was more likely than not going to die a brutal and sometimes sexually charged death. This writing is problematic in itself, but it gets really interesting once you factor in the fans. 

Despite the fact that Supernatural had a mostly female fanbase and a solid amount of queer fans, reactions to female characters were complicated, especially in the beginning. One infamous poem from 2009 blog “Just Go Demon-Ho” lists reason why the demon love interest Ruby needed to be written off, including such inspiring lines as “Just leave now b*tch, we will stand up and cheer”. While access to the early internet allowed for fans to discuss their love of their favorite show, it also provided a breeding ground for fans to spread hatred and misogyny online. In this is the double-bladed sword: once anonymized, the internet allows for people to show their true colors, and this can often be very ugly. While people might feel the pressure to tone down such strong opinions in real life settings, people will often post without thought online under the pretense that “nobody will care anyway”, although this is not true. Perhaps there was also the perception that since these characters weren’t real, then the audience’s misogyny wasn’t hurting anybody, even if these comments could be internalized by other fans. 

Such behavior makes me wonder which came first: the audience’s internalized misogyny or the show’s external misogyny. I believe that they went hand in hand. Hegemony is defined by sociologist James Lull as “the power or dominance that one social group holds over others” (Gender, Race, and Class in Media 6th Edition, Page 41). As opposed to other forms of oppression, hegemony functions by convincing one social group that they are not being oppressed, and that their oppression is actually a result of nature or how things should be. In a way, since the female characters of Supernatural were not portrayed as actual human beings, the audience could not perceive any new female character as such, unless they were firmly out of the range of “potential love interest”. Fan perception of female characters was so harmed by this internet echo chamber of misogyny that it was very difficult to break out of the hegemony of “girl=bad, man=good”. Paradoxically, there was still a desire for these fans to see Dean and Sam in complex romantic relationships, but in the words of writer Anna Campbell from Medium, “...in general it’s hard to write a compelling heterosexual romance, after all, if all your women are objects more than agents.” Enter Castiel, angel of the Lord. 

Season 4 of Supernatural begins with Dean being raised from hell by the angel Castiel, who declares that “God commanded it”. Castiel then showed up repeatedly throughout the season, eventually becoming part of the main cast. Fans went wild. Here was a male character with an interesting backstory and relationship with one of the main characters, unlike previous love interests that were only caricatures of real women. It is doubtless that the fanbases’ misogyny also played a part in the popularity of a gay relationship, but the result is fascinating. In internet fan communities, a practice known as “shipping” is common, where fans take two characters that they think would look good together and create fanworks about them being in a relationship. This can manifest as simply blogging about them, or in transformative works (defined as “A new work based on an old one work [the new work] is transformative if it uses the source work in completely new or unexpected ways”) like art, fanfiction, and videos. And on the internet, gay relationships reign supreme. 

When someone unaware of online fan-culture is exposed to this fact, it can be confusing. But when all of the factors are considered, it really is not that surprising. From its inception, the internet has been a place where people can find groups of people with similar ideals as them that they might not find in real life. For many queer people, especially queer teenagers, the internet was where they first learned about LGBTQ+ identities and communities. Combine this with the fact that a lot of mainstream media is made with the male gaze and many female characters fall flat, and you get a female, queer community online that is simultaneously displeased with the disappointments of heterosexual pairings and the lack of queer representation in mainstream media. When more attention in films and tv shows is given to complex, fulfilling male relationships than is given to heterosexual pairings, then why wouldn’t people want to explore what is given to them? 

Queer readings of mainstream texts allow for the audience to glean more from the narrative, coming away with their own rich interpretations. As queer studies scholar Alexander Doty writes, “Queer readings aren’t ‘alternative’ readings. They result from the recognition and articulation of the complex range of queerness that has been in popular culture texts and their audiences all along.” By creating fanworks that investigate certain untapped aspects of characters (such as the popular interpretation that Dean Winchester is bisexual due to his innuendos, posturing, repression, and overcompensating masculinity), fans explore these aspects within themselves. Transformative fiction is not just “stealing” the ideas of the published work, but instead ways of furthering one’s understanding of it. The internet is a place where creators do not have to concern themselves with the pressures of a corporation worried about profitability, which often pushes media to fall into the male gaze. Rather, individuals can create works through the female gaze, which Laura Mulvey writes as, “Characters viewed through the lens of the female gaze are not caricatures. The beauty of the female gaze is that it aims to empathize rather than objectify, to show emotion and intimacy while also showing respect. This is a refreshing idea compared to the control, dominance, and superficialities of the male gaze.” Fanfiction, though often derided by popular culture, is a statement of rebellion. 

And now we return to seventh grade health class, with the warm afternoon sun shining through the window onto the face of my friend. I am mildly mortified that she is speaking about Supernatural fanfiction (disguised as it may be) in front of our entire class. I wonder to myself: How could someone relate something as serious as PTSD to a show so terrible and misogynistic as Supernatural, and then proudly declare it? Well, I would never. Meanwhile, she is thinking about her favorite show, about how much it means to her despite its flaws. She is thinking about how she and other fans have taken something that is often discriminatory to the very people they are, and how despite what others may think, they’ve transformed it into something that embraces queerness, neurodivergence, and mental health. Gay transformative works can be liberating to the queer community, but it must be acknowledged that the abundance of male/male romances are largely in response to a lack of properly written female characters. People can make lemonade out of lemons, but that doesn’t stop the fact that corporations are squeezing lemon juice into our eyes. Still, in a world where the powers that be dictate the reign of toxic masculinity, it is the rebellious joy of the creative fan to see that and then transform it into any of the beautifully diverse narratives it asks to become.

[luckythereviewer]

So now that CCC has come out and I've played through it I can finally give some thoughts on how the CCC interlude for Extella Zero portion of Rulers of the Moon. First off, it's during all of this that Rin and Hakuno hook up, with Rin getting a lot more focus during CCC, rather than just having the initial chapter then just having nothing else for Rin aside from being a side character. The AU is focused on Rin and Hakuno so very much going have them in the spotlight rather than Sakura coming out of nowhere and being the main ship. Secondly, while Hakuno does still do Punishment Time on Lip and Melt, the Student Council ends up finding a way to have it where Hakuno doesn't end up killing the Alter-Egos. I'm all for Hakuno seeking out a way so they could survive, but what they did in CCC was extremely lazy to the point it ends up hurting Hakuno as a character. Hakuno would still explain why their love is wrong and try to help them correct it, not just leave them as they are and hope they learn themselves. This way the Kiara fight can still happen but it's much less contrived.

Speaking of the Kiara fight, after Nameless, Tamamo, and Nero return from Kiara flinging them 3 to the edge of the galaxy, thanks to Tamamo specifically being able to travel light-speed and bringing Nameless and Nero along, Hakuno sends Shirano (Male Hakuno), Nameless, and Tamamo back to the school building to save and protect Rin and Rani while she deals with Kiara with Nero alone. Very much am not a fan of how Rin and Rani apparently sacrifice themselves to give Hakuno as much time as they can to defeat Kiara before she begins pulling in souls from the Earth and it's extremely brief. Rin and Rani deserved more than a few final lines before their apparently sacrifice and Rin doesn't even get any lines, it's specifically Rani who talks to Hakuno. Finally, the characters remember the events of CCC. Extella seems to go back and forth on if they remember or not and what specifically they remember so I'm just going to have it that, thanks to the way they returned to the Near Side, i.e. Sakura taking over the Moon Cell Core, they all end up retaining their memories, leading to a scene where Rin gets embarrassed about Hakuno asking what she would want to do as a first date. And now finally, the thoughts regarding Karna and Elizabeth when Hakuno and Rin meet them in Extella, since I've now played CCC and can be comfortable about talking about the two. First off, Kara is very much a welcome addition, with Rin even bringing up that she was curious about the other person who logged out in the aftermath of the Grail War. It would be here where Rin would tell Hakuno that, from the Moon Cell's records, Jinako was able to log out of SE.RA.PH. and returned to Earth, with Karna explaining the details about him using his Golden Armor to protect Jinako from being deleted, allowing her to return home which Hakuno is very much thankful to Karna for doing so. Also, as a side note, with their memories intact, Hakuno would take time during the 6th and 7th round, and even before going to the Core, to talk to Jinako, wanting to at least make what she believes is the last weeks of Jinako's life happy ones. Anyways, as for Elizabeth, Rin and Hakuno are surprise to Elizabeth back and very much still holding to her reformed ways, to the point Rin actually starts thinking she could actually make money off of Elizabeth whole idol thing. Still need to work on her singing but Elizabeth is very much an improvement over how the three first met. Also, no, Elizabeth doesn't get corrupted by Archimedes and Velber in this AU. In hindsight, it seems very counter intuitive to have all the development for Elizabeth in CCC only to seemingly dump it by making her a brainwashed/corrupted servant of the Umbral Star, even if she unintentionally ends up saving the day by the end.

[horizon-verizon]

What do you think of that take and reading of GRRM that ASOIAF and also his previous works are following a strict priority of expressing anti-war statements, so that readers can expect every character initiating or leading armed conflict to end up narratively severely punished, no matter the individual personalities, circumstances and motivations? It's used to predict bad outcomes for Daenerys, sometimes Stannis, but also to explain finished arcs like Rhaenyra's and Robb Stark's. (1)

Pt. 2 of ask: "I understand this as just another myth/theory fans came up with like many others. But what worries me is that these readers wouldn't even take offense at it within the entanglement of themes the author brought up in his story. As positive a pacifist message could always be seen as, why is a white male writer given free pass to wrap themes like this up in a way that would necessarily and intentionally devalue the idea that misogyny or slavery are deserving of violent conflict and resistance?"

A)

I don't know if GRRM is strictly anti-war so much as critical (skeptical) of why people go to war. As in he questions, points out inconsistencies, and remarks on double standards that make the justifications of "unnecessary" wars.

Thing is that in his novel Fevre Dream, he has a character specifically say that you can't expect a group to experience intergenerational, consistent, long-term suffering and systematic oppression that makes up the very fabric of the oppressive society/institution and NOT expect the violence and war to be the thing to remove that exact oppressive system in place. In fact, total destruction is necessary because of how intrinsic to the social order/status quo the oppressive practices and institutions in place are. Which is why dragons are not strictly good or evil as a metaphor in ASoIaF and are actually symbols of freedom in Dany's arc in particular. Destruction is very useful whe used for specific moments where you need to uproot things to start over. Fire itself is a magical substance that doesn't fit into a binary when we are talking about themes in storytelling or real-life idea systems & human history/psychology.

So honestly, I think ASoIaF fans who argue that ASoIaF/GRRM argues for a "strict priority of expressing anti-war statements, so that readers can expect every character initiating or leading armed conflict to end up narratively severely punished, no matter the individual personalities, circumstances and motivations" are being too myopic about it. The series already constantly questions what it can mean to be a "good" leader in a society(ies), the conflicts involved that could stop a perosn from being a "good" leader. dragonseeds here on Tumblr says it more eloquently than I could:

it’s the beginning of the exploration and deconstruction. functionally this system is rigid (specifically in terms of gender and class) and horrifically violent: so what it’s really like to live in it? to try to be a hero, a knight, to be a lady in a world where your body belongs to your family, your lord, your order? is it possible to be a good person in a hierarchal world like this, with such vast power imbalances woven throughout it and every relationship and interaction that you have informed by that? how do you navigate that imbalance in order to have meaningful relationships—can you every truly do it? and who decides what is good? how do you know if it’s truly right or it just felt right because it’s what you wanted to do? what about the people who have no name, no family, no order: what happens to them? don’t they matter? what if in a lifetime of looking the other way or actively causing others harm, you do a few things—maybe one thing—that’s objectively good: does it mean anything? does it matter, even if no one ever knows? what if the best thing you ever did broke every vow you made, every law that governs your society? how do you live with that dissonance? what’s it like to be a ruler, to be a king or queen—is it possible to be a good one in such an unequal system? to wield power justly? who decides what is just? who decides who should rule? at which point does the amount of power someone can have cross the line into too much? is it when you stop trying to figure out how to use it correctly and worry only about how to keep it? if holding onto it costs you everything, your family and all your relationships, is it still worth it? what if having that much power available is necessary to the survival of your people, maybe even your world, but when it’s misused the carnage left behind is beyond articulation—is it still worth it? are the lives it saves worth the lives it took? how do you measure that? who carries the weight of that choice and how? how do you live with it? how do you go on living in a world that can be harsh and cruel and unfair, a world where your good intentions and your personhood seem to matter very little in the face of someone else’s greed or when compared to the yoke of your duty? and the questions never stop and the answers when and if they come are rarely easy, but the point is that you keep asking and keep trying because that’s what it means to be alive lol

And to be honest, Dany is the person who understands more than anyone else in this series how important it is to ask these questions and perform as a leader for others than for oneself. While there is an answer and a goal--think of others, don't go for power to only become a menace--GRRM shows us the journey of how people become or decide who they are by emphasizing their environment and the constant philosophical questions of how to live in an unfair world and find meaning in living. The process matters as much, if not more, than the result bc without such a process how do we change this or that aspect of the phenomenon that makes us/others suffer, espe with humans being a social race.

B)

Yes, why is it that many fans are willing to have a white male writer "devalue the idea that misogyny or slavery are deserving of violent conflict and resistance"?

On top of Western consumerist societies already mass-convincing people that they should not think too deeply about double standards of race, gender, etc. in media, I think that with so much of the commercial advocacy of diversity, etiquette is both prevalent and shallow enough for companies, 1%-ers, and politicians to claim that they are helping [insert: everyone else] when in fact, they are using activism to sell themselves to people with better intentions. Pinkwashing, the case of the Velaryons being black and/or darker-skinned than literally everyone else but it somehow does not affect the actual story, etc. Meanwhile, you have corporate counterinsurgency measures making it more difficult for indigenous people to effectively convey their messages or even gather data about their unethical destruction of lands for their pipelines. It is in their best interests for people to not feel too passionately about some things they control by convincing them that they are participating. You have white "professionalism" and genteelness making it harder for people to feel much compassion for people who may have manic episodes, just make public "spectacles" of themselves in reaction to unjust acts, etc.

Really, it's a way to maintain various facets of white, able-bodied/minded, patriarchal supremacy, and people need to actively unlearn. I'm being general bc I do not want to write too much as I have done before.

[izunias-meme-hole]

My Top 10 Favorite Fire Emblem Characters 

Number 1. Edelgard Von Hresvelg - I would repeat several points about why her fans like her, and also explain just how in the wrong she is, but there’s a simpler way to explain why I love Edelgard. She’s the best take on the Rudolf Archetype in the entire series. She’s calculated, arrogant, and self-righteous, yet she’s also very charming, likable, and had a good end goal that can resonate with some people, despite the way she intended to go about it. Her character basically mixes the best aspects of the Rudolf Archetype, and places them into a single character, without making her seem unoriginal. Overall, Edelgard is the most well done villain the series has ever had. Long live the Flame Emperor!

Number 2. Ashnard - King Ashnard of Daein was truly a Mad King. Throughout Path of Radiance, he’s mostly in his hideout, but he’s authorized so many warcrimes, the carnage he causes is told to Ike and the mercenaries, his soldiers both fear and respect him, every time we DID see him talking with his men it became clearer how deranged he is, and overall he was a well built up final boss with a GIGANTIC BLOODLUST. However the best thing about him is that while he’s this hammy psycho on the surface, underneath that expressive exterior is a clever asshole of a man with a darwinist ideology. Ashnard believes that only the strong can thrive in life, and hates the caste systems in other countries because it grants positions of power to people he deems as “unworthy.” In his eyes, if you want to increase your status, you need to fight tooth to nail and prove that you’re strong. Hell, he wasn’t even upset at the notion of dying because in his eyes, if he dies it means that he was overpowered or that he slipped up. HELL WHEN HE DOES DIE HE IS JUST LAUGHING, BEGGING THE PARTY TO CONTINUE THE FIGHT, AND SPEWING SOME BULLSHIT ABOUT AN ASCENSION! So yeah, this guy is not called the Mad King for nothing.

Number 3. Arvis - The best way to describe Arvis is a “Male Prototype Edelgard”, however the difference between them is clear. Despite also being a morally ambiguous figure dubbed “The Flame Emperor,” Arvis was the BASTARD that got what he wanted, until karma hit him like a truck when he got backstabbed by the Gharnef of his game, and his own son a few years later. I could go into more detail about this guy, like how he killed the first protagonist of the game and married his girlfriend not long after, but Geneology of The Holy War is a long ass game, and there is a LOT to say about this guy. Also he’s the first Rudolf that relies on magic rather than swords, axes, spears, and armor. So yeah, Arvis is dope.

Number 4. Lyon - To think that a member of the Gharneff Archetype is the most tragic villain in the series. The man tried to bring back his dad with dark magic, and immediately got taken over by the demon king, Fomortiis. This alone doesn’t just make him good, because Lyon isn’t just possessed, every single one of his traits ended up becoming twisted, and hidden feelings were put on full display in the WORST ways possible, and at the end of the game, he becomes nothing but a souless puppet for Fomortis to use. The way he’s written is similar to how Sephiroth was written in Crisis Core, except more pittiful, which helps hammer in exactly what kind of man and villain Lyon is. Overall Lyon is a walking mess of a human being that ended up becoming a hollow shell of a man controlled by the Demon King.

Number 5. Berkut - Edelgard would HATE this guy. Berkut was the embodiment of pride, entitlement, and insecurity. He was Emperor Rudolf’s nephew, one of the most skilled combatants in Rigel at such a young age, and had a very cool and nice fiancé named Rinea. So what happened? He got his ass beat by a farmboy named Alm, who also happened to be Rudolf’s son, and after that an entire domino effect happened, which resulted in Berkut falling into despair. Then in his moment of despair, the God of Strength and Father of Rigel, Duma, whispered into his ear, and Rinea began trying to cheer up Berkut at the EXACT moment that he was going nuts, which resulted in the bastard sacrificing his fiancé for the sake of power. And after all of that he is finally killed by Alm. Well, at least he’s Dancing In Purgatory now. As much as I love how Rudolf was done in Shadows of Valentia, Berkut was its breakout character for a reason. His slow degradation from this arrogant prick with big shoes to fill and some semblance of a heart, to a deranged madman that only lusts for power was done pretty well.

Number 6. The Black Knight, Zelgius - The Black Knight, Zelgius, is just great and is truly deserving of his own archetype. Between his design, his warrior mentality, his boss music, his dynamic with Ike, his simple and effective backstory, his connection to both of main villains of the Tellius Games, and overall just the sheer amount of menace and the FEAR factor he brings to the table everytime he’s on the map. However I do like his characterization in Path of Radiance characterization more than his Radiant Dawn characterization, mostly because I REALLY like how Path of Radiance introduces him as both an near-invincible threat and a very personal villain for Ike to face. The Black Knight may be a simple villain clad in black armor, but he’s still one of the best villains this series has produced.

Number 7. Camus/Zeke - The Camus Archetype is a character archetype in Fire Emblem reserved for knights who are loyal to their country and master, despite being admirable men and cool guys. A bad member of this archetype would ignore all reason and remain loyal to their country and master, despite being aware their a piece of shit, but the best members actually do realize the situation they’re in and do whatever they can to stop their former master. However no matter how many members of this archetype come into existence, there is only one General Camus of Grust. Or Zeke, if you’ve played Shadows of Valentia.

Number 8. Rhea/Serios - She is a genocide survivor, she’s got PTSD, she has mommy issues, she’s the most characterized “evil dragon person,” and so on. Overall what Rhea is to the Medeus Archetype is what Edelgard is to the Rudolf Archetype.

Number 9. Nergal - This guy is the only member of the Gharnef archetype I respect, that isn’t Lyon. On the surface Nergal looks like this generic madman who feeds off of life energy and wants to release dragons, but when you replay the game on Hector’s route, you soon see that his madness was the byproduct of being corrupted by dark magic, which he was researching in an attempt to find a way to get free half-dragon kids, Ninian and Nils. Still, when he did get corrupted, he became one of the series’s biggest bastards of all time. Overall, Nergal is genuinely underrated as a villain and character.

Number 10. Zephiel - Zephiel had no grand plan to change humanity for the better, or a plan to conquer the world and make it a hellscape. He just wanted to wipe out humanity and lend the world to the dragons. So basically he was a nihilist, but in the FE6 manga and FE7, we see that he started out as a kind boy that grew into a man worthy of being a king, so what happened to him? Well his jealous father, who had sent assassin’s to kill him in the past, tried to poison him, and was unsuccessful in doing so. Jesus, talk about mixing irredeemability with tragedy. Also props to him for being a consistent threat, despite not appearing often in game, not to mention he’s got one of the best attack animations in the series. Doesn’t matter if you love or hate him, you gotta respect the King of Bern.

[yikes077]

Musical Review- Moulin Rogue

Possible Spoilers!

I know it’s been a while since I posted a review, but here we go.

For those of your who don’t know me personally, I am quite the musical fan. I have had the amazing opportunity to see many different shows in theaters and feel the music swell up inside of me. Recently, I was blessed to see Moulin Rouge in London and it was just fantastic!

I went into the show without a clue of songs, plot, anything, which is quite uncommon for me, but also a good thing as I don’t think I would have even bought a ticket if I knew. I, like many musical fans, am very critical of jukebox musicals. It feels like the pop songs take away from the set, dialogue, costumes, and it just seems forced. But the way that they mixed the songs and the tunes blended just enough that it still had an authentic musical feel and didn’t destroy the other aspects of the show.

Another thing that would have killed my interest is the plot, or lack thereof. Boiled down it’s just the old play with in a play where the fake play just reflects the actual play, the love triangle that’s barely a triangle, and the war between love and money, where they must make the man with money the most comically evil person to make a proper argument against the money. And don’t even get me started how they used a women as the object of two men’s desire, before killing her off. All ideas that are almost dull at this point.

The show’s saving grace were the costumes and the actors that managed to shine through despite all the possible faults. Every set and stage move had me breathless, it looked amazing.

I love the more technical parts of a musical, costumes and stage mechanics are my bread and butter, and this satisfied my thirst. In the past I have often seen traveling musicals, ones that come and go for the theater after a period of time, but being able to see the permanent part of the stage, like the windmills in the molding, the added length of stage around the audience, and the lights hanging above me, were just visually stunning. The way that they pulled off a few of the costume changes just fed my little musical nerd heart.

I also feel like there should be an honorable mention for the way that the show failed the bechdel test, though you almost wouldn’t notice. Just because most of the show seemed to be a white man from america screwing over French minorities, there was a fantastic amount of diversity. Women, though most in nothing but corsets, were definitely front and center, managing to pull off some decent dynamic female characters. Also, the amount of queer coded, and actually queer, characters was awesome. Not only was there a MtF drag dressing character (who was not mentioned in any plot or synopsis I could find, but was very much a part of the show) and but there was also a relationship between Henry and one of the male dancers, which I also don’t know it is apart of every show or just the one I saw. The male dancer that Henry had a situationship with ended up being the one who betrayed Statine and Christian, allowing not just for queer characters but multi faceted queer characters, which will always get a round of applause from me, no matter how small. It reminded me that not everything has to be saying something. The musical wasn’t “woke” and it didn’t have “an agenda” it was just a good time with good representation that wasn’t super in your face, but also wasn’t hidden into the background, which I think important to display in media. That kind of diversity is something that should always be showcased in musical theater, and I’m happy that it was.

Overall, I had a fun time. I’m glad that I was able to give the show a chance, and even if it wasn’t a deep, world stopping commentary, or a huge diversity win, it was a good show. I enjoyed myself, and it did remind me it’s okay to just enjoy a show with cool costumes and an awesome set. Even though I might still feel like jukebox musicals are a little lazy, sometimes it’s nice to just know the songs.

[lemotmo]

Sorry to step in again, but I really wanted to respond to @sunflowerdigs.

I do see your point. Is the story still salvageable at this point? That is a good question.

They have messed up some big character arcs that had been dealt with in previous seasons, such as Eddie’s mental health journey. I feel like they brought him back to that low point he has already been in before, without any good reason other than to create drama. I do think that could have been handled so much better, without the strange ‘doppelgänger Vertigo Chris leaving’ mess. They also didn’t do Buck’s bisexual story any justice. It started promising, but they quickly pushed it aside and stuck him with a terrible love interest. There was no rom-com feeling, no ‘having to make an effort to get the love he wants’. Just a quick kiss in one single episode and then we only saw his love interest in a few short scenes in a few episodes. Buck’s bisexual story arc fell flat. They started out great, but they fumbled it up and didn’t progress it to something interesting.

You are correct, it would have been so much more interesting and engaging if they had gone straight to Buddie. It could have been so interesting to see one of them catch feelings for their best friends, not sure how to handle it. The pining would have been beautiful. They could have done all the tropes: having them get stuck together and in danger or one of them in danger, feelings spilling all over the place. But they decided to do it differently. I can only assume that it has to do with the network not willing to have two main male characters, who were previously seen as nothing but straight, to fall for each other in one season. Maybe they wanted to test the waters first?

I also get the worry over Ryan’s answers. I have the same feeling sometimes. Especially when he talks about that being vulnerable doesn’t have anything to do with your sexuality. I admit that this worries me as well. But, on the flip side, he has started using gender neutral terms and pronouns for Eddie’s potential future partner. He talks about Eddie’s journey in season 8 as if he is going to open himself up to new things and possibilities. In his words he will press a ‘refresh’ button. All of that does sound promising. But again, I agree it doesn’t give us anything concrete.

Tim has promoted Buddie and BT on his social media, which is his job I suppose. The more they promote BT and Buddie the higher the social media engagement from the fans. We might not like ship wars in fandom, but for a network this is a gold mine. It creates engagement and the ships and show keep on trending on social media, which is good for them. People who have been watching for years, keep on watching for the characters and ships they have loved for years. New people come in, curious what all the hype is all about, they see bisexual representation and they’re on board, unaware of history of some of the fandom’s ships. I do think Tim only puts Tommy in scenes when he needs to be there to advance Buck’s story. That’s why Buck’s storyline is so strangely disjointed and the BT relationship is so boring to watch.

I don’t know what goes on BTS, but yeah Lou seems to not gel at all with any of the cast. I think there was one video in the beginning with Kenneth, but afterwards that just stopped. He is always just awkwardly there, standing around. That’s also one of the reasons why I think he isn’t sticking around. It also doesn’t help that Lou is very limited in his acting abilities. It has to be frustrating for Oliver to work opposite him and not getting anything back from him. Especially when he is used to the likes of Ryan, Aisha, Peter, Jen…

Lou simply doesn’t have the acting chops to play emotional scenes and that will become a bigger problem the moment you put this guy in bigger story arcs where he will have to show emotions. Another reason why I think Tim isn’t going to keep him around for very long. The BT shippers and Tommy fans will come along to season 8 so that’s probably the goal. When Tommy inevitably leaves, the fans are already there engaged in Buck’s story, so they might stick around. It's a bit like how he handled previous love interests. When Buck was with Taylor he promoted them on his social media and told everyone in interviews that they had endgame potential. Look what happened there in the end.

Another thing Tim has done is that he has taken the blue print of season 4 and reworked it to season 7. The Buddie shooting arc was given to Bathena and some of the Bathena arc was given to Buddie. The parallels are striking. He is setting up pawns for something. For what? Well, I can only hope it is for the ultimate pay-off of Buddie canon in season 8. Probably the set up in 8A with the end of BT and the progression of Buddie in 8B with the pay-off in the finale. He has 18 episodes to work with this time. He has gotten all the groundwork out of the way, so season 8 will be the build-up to something better, with the moment when Chris returns as one of the high points of the season.

But of course, none of this is set in stone. If it is the network stopping things, nothing will ever come of it, but they will also lose one of the biggest chances to write TV history. Are they willing to give that up? This is the network that also has shows like Grey’s anatomy. I somehow doubt that they wouldn’t be willing to go with Buddie.

I do know that, if nothing changes in season 8, a lot of people will give up on the show. Not just for Buddie as a ship, but for the fact that they ruined Buck and Eddie’s characters, not to mention how badly they fumbled Buck’s bisexual arc, which could have been so amazing if they had done it right in season 7. Next to that a lot of people are also not that happy with Hen and Athena’s characters arcs at the moment. They will have to make some better choices for those characters as well.

So, back to the original question: Is the Buddie story still salvageable?

Yes, I do think it is. If they play their cards right and they really take time to plan out the course of season 8 this time, instead of quickly writing some scenes only to shoot them the next day. They have more time now to plan everything out. There needs to be a clear course from the get-go. It will all depend on that. If they fumble up again, they won’t get another chance since we’re already in season 8.

Now, are they going to take that chance and do Buddie right this time? I don’t know. I do feel that the option is there. They can still do the story justice. But they have to want it as well. The showrunners and network have to want it and make it happen. And why wouldn’t they? They would be foolish not to take the opportunity to write history. So, I’m choosing to believe they’ll go there and make it happen.

But am I still 100% certain like I was in the middle of season 7? No. I’m about 90% still there though. I feel the odds are still in our favour. All we can do is wait and see what season 8 will bring us. I’m secretly hoping for Oliver to start posting and talking about Buddie again. The moment he does that, I’ll know we’re back. So, I'll be on the look-out for that.

For now I'm choosing to be positive. Always look on the bright side of life and all. So, Buddie canon season 8 you guys! :)

I know not everything the actors say in interviews is accurate but I’m pretty sure in the beginning of the season Oliver talked about how Buck was going to have to work for his next relationship. He talked very deliberately about how Buck has always had relationships come easy. In that he’ll like someone and then end up with them without having to really fight for them. He said Buck's next relationship was going to be different, yet things with T*mmy feel exactly the same as how it’s felt with most of the women Buck's been with. Where the relationship comes easy and it’s mostly based on sex and the person doesn’t really know who Buck is at his core.

I can’t help but wonder if Tim told Oliver that he was planning on making Buddie happen this season or at least moving them closer to happening and it got pushed into s8. In the beginning of this season we had a lot of joint Ryan and Oliver interviews more so than in previous years. Oliver also did a lot of posting/liking about Buddie and Ryan on insta. He also talked about Buddie in all his interviews more than in previous seasons. Given how Oliver has said multiple times in the past that he didn't want to lead people on about Buddie I can't help but feel like he thought things were going to play out differently.

If you watch the beginning of s7 it feels like we’re heading towards something important happening with Buddie. We had a lot of Buddie scenes including the locker room scene, the scene where Buddie talk about underlying sexual tension, the scene where Buck is showing how much he's like Chris' other dad, Buddie working together on multiple calls including rescuing Bobby together. Then of course there was 704 which was like a flashing neon sign saying Buck has feelings for Eddie and is scared Eddie is going to replace him.

Then in 705 it was Eddie who interrupts Buck's first date with a guy. It's Eddie that is the focus of the conversation where Buck comes out to Maddie, where she tells him that if he has something he needs to tell Eddie he will in his own time. Then we get a very intimate scene where Buck comes out to Eddie, including a lot of shared looks between them and a hug. Also of note that Buck only had two coming out scenes in the whole season and Eddie was chosen to be one of them. There was also the gym scene where they talked about Eddie's sex life.

To me it feels like Tim changed course around 706 when he cut a lot of Buddie stuff from the ep especially the karaoke scene. I know a lot of things were likely cut for time but still they shot a scene of Buddie being all touchy feely singing a karaoke love song for the Madney wedding ep. Karaoke was one of the first things Madney did when they were falling for one another it was too much of a parallel for it not to mean something.

I think 706 was really supposed to be a bigger Buddie episode than it turned out to be. This may also be why so much of the promo stuff was about Buddie. I think originally this was going to be the episode to start officially letting the audience know there was something there between them. You can also see parts of the original story where they had Buddie joined at the hip after the bachelor party (helping Maddie and looking for Chim) everything came off very coupley.

This may also explain why Abuela is at the wedding and Marisol isn't (more about Marisol later). I wonder if originally we were going to get some kind of scene with Abuela and Eddie where she says something about Buck. There's no way they brought her in to just stand in the background like an extra there had to have been a purpose for her character originally.

I think Tim changed course when he decided he wanted to do the Kim/Shannon Vertigo mess. Which I don’t get why someone didn’t step in and tell him how ridiculous this idea was especially in this short of a season. I feel like Tim wanted to do something artsy and also get Devin Kelley back on the show and this was how he chose to do that. Unfortunately though the story turned into a mess and worse I feel like parts of Eddie's emotional journey that deserved more focus were lost. Like even the general audience didn't know what to make of that scene where Kim was dressed up as Shannon.

The Vertigo story might also be a part of why there were rumours that Edy had finished filming prior to this storyline starting in 707. Maybe she thought she had but was brought back in for this storyline. Who knows? This season was basically being written almost as they were filming it and I'm pretty sure Tim was changing things left and right. You can see that more in some episodes vs others and definitely more the later the season goes on.

I also think that would explain why so little thought and time was put into both Eddie's relationship with Marisol and Buck's thing with T*mmy. I don't think either relationship was supposed to last the entire season. There was talk early on in s7 that Lou was only supposed to be around for something like four episodes definitely a short run. In interviews Oliver also made it seem like B/T wasn't going to last and that T*mmy eventually was going to be more of a mentor type figure for Buck.

Lou also used the word rom-com when referring to B/T. Although take that with a grain of salt because it may have been on one of his cameos and he said all kinds of stuff on there. But you can see rom-com love triangle type stuff being set up in 704/705/706 between Buck, Eddie, and T*mmy and then T*mmy just kind of disappears (until 709) and the Kim/Shannon thing happens.

This would explain why there is so little development in s7 for T*mmy and B/T's relationship to the point that they never even defined that relationship by the end of the season. They never even had Buck call him his boyfriend. Which I'm glad for that in a way but it just goes to show how bad the writing was this season. And as much as I want Buddie and as much as I dislike Lou and T*mmy I'm also really sad for Oliver because this is not the coming out storyline Buck deserved.

In 707 there was zero mention of T*mmy and this is also when the Kim/Shannon storyline started so I think this is when we see some significant changes to the storyline from wherever things were originally set to go. Though the scene with Buddie and Chris I think some of that was from whatever had been originally planned. It's too flirty to explain otherwise. Maybe originally it was going to be something where Eddie and Chris spend time at Buck's loft but because there was the Kim storyline they wrote it with Eddie leaving for the date.

The thing is Buck's feelings for Eddie throughout this whole season have been louder and more apparent than we've ever seen them be before. Oliver is clearly playing Buck as in love with Eddie. Go back and watch the scene in 704 where Eddie talks about clicking with T*mmy and see how Buck looks like his heart has broken into a million pieces. Or the way Buck watches Eddie in the coming out scene in 705. Or Buck's face in 709 after he said he was worried about Eddie. It's just so obvious that man loves Eddie and would do anything for him.

This is why I really thought there was a good probability of us getting an oh moment feelings realization from Buck in the finale or at the very least a moment where they hugged and consoled each other over losing their son. But we didn't even get that.

I'm honestly not surprised that Oliver went quiet on social media during the back half of s7. Throughout the whole season Oliver wasn't really showing support for B/T and he talked very little about the ship in his interviews. I think this was originally because the plan was for B/T only to be a short term thing and Oliver didn't want to lead anyone on about that ship. I also personally think Oliver has wanted to see Buddie happen for years so he's not going to be rooting for another ship.

I also get the vibe Oliver's not crazy about working with Lou. Anytime you see behind the scenes video and pics of the cast Lou isn't in them or if he is no one is interacting with him. You can also see in the one interview Oliver did with Lou that the chemistry between them just isn't there. They feel more like coworkers just doing their job vs how Ryan and Oliver always appear like giggling besties in every interview and behind the scenes thing we see them in.

Like others have said I'm just sad for Oliver. I think once Tim told Oliver about them wanting to do the bi Buck storyline he must have been so excited. He's talked in interviews about how he's always seen Buck as bi so he must have been thrilled when they said they were finally taking his character there. And for all the issues this season Buck's coming out is still an incredibly important storyline and has meant a lot to so many people. Oliver has even talked about all the people that have messaged him and how deeply they've been affected by a character like Buck coming out.

Still I'm sure Oliver wants more for Buck's love life than the lackluster relationship that he's been stuck with. You can tell in how he talks about Buddie that he wants to see that relationship happen and that he wants to make sure it's done right and doesn't play into stereotypes.

I just hate that T*mmy is the first guy they've stuck Buck with. I hate that Tim and the show have done nothing with this relationship. We don't even really know by the end of s7 how Buck feels about T*mmy or how he feels having been dating a guy for months. Some of that should have been revisited maybe with a talk between Buck and Maddie. But it's like others have said they made Buck bi and then just kind of forgot about him. I think though that's because like I said Tim pushed everything to the side to focus on the Vertigo plot and also all the stuff with Bobby to the detriment of everything else. Buddie was the original plan and Tim didn't really have much else for Buck to do so they left him in this nothing relationship.

I really hope s8 is better all around not just for Buddie but for Buck and Eddie as characters. I hope that Tim plans to follow through and actually make Buddie a reality not just because so many people ship them because of how important for queer representation a ship like Buddie becoming canon could be. I also want to see Oliver actually get to play Buck in a relationship he's proud to talk about.

[musclesandhammering]

Every Single Issue I Have With S*lki (It’s Not Just The Selfcest)

Here goes. I threatened to post this a few days ago and never did, but I just saw a s*lki stan Twitter account claim that Loki caring about Sylvie more than the whole multiverse was a Good And Romantic thing and it pushed me over the fucking edge, so now you all have to read this. I’ve divided it into categories cause there’s just THAT much.

OOC Bullshit

• First and foremost, no amount of mental gymnastics you do will ever make me believe that this specific Loki- the one that just invaded New York, that just came off a year of Thanos Torture, that just got done being influenced by the sceptre, that was literally in the middle of a crisis already, and then on top of that went through all the trauma of Ep 1- would even be worried about a romantic relationship. That would be the furthest thing from his mind. Go back and watch how he acted in Avengers- you think that guy would abandon his previous mission to become a snivelling simp for a girl he’d just met 3 days prior? Yeah, there’s no universe in which that makes sense.

• “It’s very in character for Loki to fall in love with himself lololol-“ NO, it’s literally not. Out of all the characters in the mcu, I don’t think I can think of anyone that genuinely hates themselves more than Loki. He even referred to all his other male variants as “monsters” and said meeting them was “a nightmare” in this series. He’s got so much self-loathing, plus the fact that he genuinely thinks himself to be an evil backstabbing scourge- so there’s no evidence at all suggesting that he would ever develop a fondness for, or even be inclined to trust, another version of himself, after only knowing them for 3 days.

• Building on that, the whole concept of Loki falling in love with a version of himself just feeds into the annoying ass misconception that he’s a narcissist. No matter which way you stack it, he’s not. If you’re referring to NPD, he doesn’t fit the criteria, and if you’re saying “narcissist” just as a slang term meaning “selfish and arrogant”, that still doesn’t accurately describe him. But when creators like Waldron and Herron do things like having him fall in love with himself, it makes it so much easier for casual viewers to think that he is.

Shitty LGBT Rep

• It’s kinda sus that Loki’s are allegedly genderfluid and yet the only female-presenting variant we see (and apparently the only female-presenting variant there is, cause the male Loki’s all seemed unfamiliar with the concept) is treated as some kind of mind-bogglingly special paradox. Also very sus that, out of all the Loki variants, the one our Loki falls in love with just so happens to be the only female one. What a coincidence.

• The fact that the creators of the show went around bragging about Loki’s bisexuality and Marvel purposefully (lbr) allowed stories about Loki possibly having a male love interest to circulate, specifically enticing queer viewers to watch the show (you know, the definition of queerbaiting), and then instead of having a male love interest (Loki was the first queer main character, so it was the perfect opportunity) they gave us *gestures to this dumpster fire* this… it’s just a middle finger to LGBT fans. The fact that they would rather have this relationship with all its myriad of problems than have a gay relationship is just……. Very telling.

• While him being with a woman obviously doesn’t refute his bisexuality, the fact that they showed/talked about him being interested in 3 different women (flight attendant, Sylvie, Sif) and never even hinted at him being attracted to a man, definitely makes it seem like they were trying to cover up his bisexuality to smooth things over with the more homophobic viewers. You know? It’s like “I know you’re pissed that we sorta confirmed Loki as bi, so we promise we’ll never mention it again! Or even hint at it! As a matter of fact, we’ll give him lots of female lovies and make him seem as straight as possible! That’ll take your mind off of that horrible crumb of queer rep, right? Please please please keep giving us your money!!!”

• Aside from all the other issues, at its core, the biggest reason why I think I’m so irritated with s*lki is that it took one of the most interesting, complex, and diverse characters in cinema atm and squished him into a tired ass unnecessary heteronormative subplot…. Like literally every. single. other. protagonist. ever. Loki is such a unique character, and it’s so so so incredibly disappointing that they stuck him into that same boring cookie cutter romance that happens to every other character in every other movie I’ve ever seen. It’s a disservice, and it’s honestly just not compelling or entertaining at all.

Thematic Issues Galore

• His arc didn’t need a romance. With anyone. It was unnecessary and it didn’t make sense plot-wise. In fact, one of the reasons he was my fav prior to this was because he was the only big-name mcu character whose story wasn’t muddied-up by a romance that didn’t need to be there. So much for that.

• He wasn’t emotionally ready for a romantic relationship with anyone. Hell, just a genuine friendship would’ve been pushing it for him at this point. He was in such a bad state that any relationship he got into would’ve been toxic and unhealthy for both him and the other person, and it doesn’t make sense why the writers would want to put him in one when there were so many cons and essentially no pros (other than “Uwu aren’t they cute together”).

• Sylvie’s character in general was unnecessary and Loki’s character was robbed just by her being there. The whole show became about her post-Ep 2. They spent most of the time giving her backstory, building her up, telling us how awesome she is, trying to convince us to like her, etc when what they really needed to be doing was building Loki up- cause I gotta say, if I had to describe TVA!Loki in a few words, they would be Flat, Boring, and Weak.

• The romance overtakes the plot. They spend time portraying their supposed connection that could’ve been spent adding depth and complexity to literally any of the characters. They make the big Nexus Event them giving each other googly eyes on Lamentis when it could’ve been so many other way more profound things that speak to the fundamental nature of Loki’s. They have the climax of the finale be “oh no she betrayed him to kill He Who Remains” when it could’ve been something way more compelling (Loki having a moral crisis over whether or not to kill HWR, Loki contemplating the state of the multiverse and weighing the pros and cons of freedom vs order, Loki looking into some What If situations and getting emotional about what could’ve been regarding his family, Loki realising the gravity of HWR’s offer and finally coming to terms with how important he is to the universal cycle, etc etc). The entire plot suffered in favour of a romance that half of us didn’t even want.

• It essentially reduced all of Loki’s potential character growth down to “He did it for his crush.” He seemed to at least have some motivations of his own in Ep 1-2 (feeble as they were) but after Sylvie showed up in Ep 3, literally every action he took was just him being a simp for her. Why did he lie in the interrogation? To try to protect Sylvie. Why did he fight the minutemen and Timekeepers? To survive kinda, but mostly cause it was important to Sylvie. Why did he get pruned? Cause he got distracted trying to confess his crush to Sylvie. Why did he try to get out of The Void? Cause he thought Sylvie needed him. Why did he stay in The Void? Cause Sylvie was staying. Why did he try to enchant Alioth? Cause Sylvie told him to. Why did the multiverse get cracked open, leading to an infinite number of Kangs waging war on all of existence? Cause Loki didn’t wanna hurt Sylvie in their fight at the Citadel and then get distracted by her kissing him. It’s uninteresting and honestly pretty embarrassing.

• Throughout their “relationship arc” the writers do their absolute damndest to convince us that we should like Sylvie more than Loki. And you know what? It’s the most hypocritical shit I’ve ever seen. They preach and preach about how Sylvie’s life has been so difficult/we should feel bad for her/she had it so bad/poor poor sylvie/she had it SO much worse than pampered prince Loki…. But then they never even touch on any of Loki’s trauma of hardships (the ones that have been ignored for literally 3 movies now). They frame Sylvie as a good person and a Freedom Fighter after she spent literal decades/centuries mass-murdering brainwashed TVA agents and showing exactly zero remorse for it….. but then they make it their mission to constantly remind us that Loki is a terrible person and constantly put him in situations where he’s forced to acknowledge his wrongdoings/show remorse/admit to how “evil” he is for being a mass murderer for like 2 years. They show him on-screen having a wider range of powers than her, and perpetuate his whole shtick of being a “master manipulator” or whatever….. But then they make Sylvie “the brawn” more competent, intelligent, and physically capable than him. Tell me how it’s a good thing for a ship to be so narratively biased toward one character.

Missed Opportunities

• If they absolutely had to have a romance subplot, then they could’ve paired Loki with one of the characters that have already been established OR one of the characters that were a big part of the whole TVA storyline anyway. It would’ve been so interesting if they’d revealed that Loki had a history with some of the players from previous films (Sif and Fandral both come to mind). It also would’ve been really interesting if they’d given Loki a love interest that actually had some allegiance to the TVA as a whole (Mobius maybe, but not necessarily. It also could’ve been Renslayer or B-15). Hell, imo it would’ve been cool if they’d followed through with that “See you again someday” line that he said to the flight attendant in Ep 1. ALL of these characters have way more chemistry with him than Sylvie, and they were also already relevant to the plot without wasting half the show to give background info on them.

• If they absolutely had to have a hetero-presenting love story involving an enchantress-type figure, then there’s a whole Enchantress (Amora) that was actually Loki’s love interest in the comics. Plus, fans have been screaming for Amora to appear in the mcu for years. Plus, Tom literally pitched an Amora/Loki storyline way back in 2012-13. Also, Lorelei (another enchantress) is also one of Loki’s love interests in the comics, and she already exists in the mcu (she was on Agents of SHIELD). There were several different established characters for them to choose from. Creating a whole knew amalgamation of a character and going with the “she’s a Loki variant” storyline was just completely unnecessary and made no sense.

• They completely robbed us of a Chaos Twins dynamic. Had they handled Sylvie better and not forced her and Loki to smooch, the two of them could’ve had a really really complex and interesting sibling relationship. Loki could’ve stepped into Thor’s shoes and sort of used that new role to gain some self importance, and Sylvie could’ve finally had somebody to look out for her/teach her magic/be there for her. It would’ve been very aesthetically pleasing, the vibes would’ve been out of this world, it would’ve been way more profound than this bs, and frankly it would’ve been much more entertaining to watch.

• Loki’s relationship (read: obsession) with Sylvie completely overshadows all Loki’s other relationships in the show. Loki and Mobius were literally the focal point of the series in Ep 1-2, but after Sylvie showed up in Ep 3, they barely had any interactions with each other, and Mobius pretty much faded to the background entirely. Loki had the beginnings of a pretty interesting antagonistic relationship with Renslayer (with her wanting him pruned, then arguing with Mobius that he couldn’t be trusted), but after Sylvie showed up the dynamic shifted to focus on the history between her and Ravonna. Loki and B-15 started off very badly and openly disliked each other throughout Ep 1-2, and then in the end of Ep 2, Loki showed a little bit of concern for her when she was possessed, hinting that they might be inching toward a reconciliation- especially considering how obvious it was that Loki was gonna uncover the TVA’s sins eventually. There was so much potential for him to be the one to give her her memories back and convince her to change sides, but no, of course that honor went to Sylvie. In fact, after Sylvie showed up, Loki and B-15 never even spoke to each other again.

Various S*lki Fails

• If they were trying to convince us that this affection was mutual, they completely failed. There’s nothing I’ve seen that even hints at Sylvie feeling the same way about Loki that he does about her. At most, I’d say she has a slight endearment to him. She finds him likeable and she’s grudgingly fond of him, but she definitely isn’t in love with the guy. Maybe she thinks he’s cute and hopes that he gets out of this mess alright, but her mission obviously comes before him- whereas, it’s been confirmed multiple times that Loki cares about her above anything else. She doesn’t trust him, she looks at him like he’s an incompetent fool half the time, she shows little to no reaction during most of his confession moments, and she kissed him as a means to distract him so that she could get him out of her way. Look, all I’m saying is, when you get into a relationship where one of you is way more invested than the other, it never ends well.

• This goes without saying for a lot of us, but the selfcest is just straight up odd and cringey. If you’re cool with that sort of thing, fine! People can ship what they want! But don’t pretend it’s not at least a little bit uncomfortable. Yes, I know they’re not technically siblings so it’s not technically incest, and they’re also not technically the exact same person, but they’re similar enough that it makes things weird. And yes I know selfcest can’t happen in real life, so there’s no way to judge it morally, but neither can most of the other stuff that happens in these shows/movies (the Snap, Loki destroying jotunheim, superhero with powers being held accountable, mind control) and yet we still find ways to judge their morality, because they all mirror real-world events. (The snap= genocide; Loki destroying Jotunheim= bombing other countries; superhero accountability= weapons accountability; mind control= grooming and coercion). And lbr the closest real-world mirror to two versions of the same person (who may or may not share DNA, family, backgrounds, physical and emotion characteristics) being romantically involved with one another is incest. And you can be ok with that if you want- that’s your prerogative- but don’t get pissy just cause a lot of us are squicked out by it.

• The whole mirror metaphor (learning self love via each other) thing just fell completely flat. First of all, having Loki learn to love himself by looking at someone who mirrors him did not, in any way shape or form, require them to be romantically involved. But they were. Of course. Secondly, the creators have contradicted themselves so many times on whether Loki and Sylvie are the same or not, that it doesn’t even really register to the viewer that the mirroring thing was what they were going for. Finally, Loki and Sylvie are shown to have so little in common- and to have only the most bare minimum of similarities personality-wise- that it doesn’t even make sense that Loki would “learn to love himself through loving her”. Like? They’re nothing alike. So how would he make the connection that he himself is actually pretty cool, based on her alone? There’s virtually nothing in her that reflects him.

• I know the objective of the entire show was to convince us of how awesome and unique Sylvie is, but honestly her relationship with Loki just did the opposite. A hallmark of a Mary Sue is having her constantly upstage the male lead, and then having him instantly fall madly in love with her anyway. And that’s.. exactly what happened here. Everything they’re doing to try to force her character to be more stan-able is really just forcing her to look more like their self-insert OC. Which is exactly what she is. It would’ve been so much more satisfying if she didn’t have to try so hard to look cool, if they didn’t have to try so hard to make her backstory tear-inducing, if they didn’t have to turn our protagonist into a snivelling simp just to prove how incredible she supposedly is. Very much #GirlBoss energy and we all know how performative and cheap that is.

• The entire thing was too rushed, there was too little build-up, and it was nowhere near believable. As stated above, it’s ridiculously unlikely that Loki would canonically even be interested in Sylvie, and this show did nothing to explain why he was. He just suddenly was. There was nothing they showed us as viewers that would justify a guy as closed-off and preoccupied as Loki falling head-over-heels for a girl he just met. Their was no explanation, no big revelation, no reasoning, it just… kinda happened. And I’m also severely skeptical of any love story that has the characters go in this deep after only 3 45-minute episodes of exposition.

I’m sure there’s other stuff, so if anyone thinks of anything, let me know and I’ll be more than happy to add it. Tagging @janetsnakehole02 @raifenlf @natures-marvel and @brightredsunset800 for expressing interest. This is all your faults.