#once upon a time 4x07

[stahlop]

Once Upon a Time 4x07 "The Snow Queen" Review

We finally get the backstory of the Snow Queen, and it is quite tragic, but enough to make her turn evil? And Snow is acting completely out of character when it comes to Emma in this episode.

Summary: Ingrid isolates herself from her family because of her ice powers, despite her sisters being totally okay with it. The Snow Queen’s goading starts making Emma think her powers make her a monster.

Opening: Kite

New Characters: 

Helga: Ingrid’s middle sister and number one champion in finding out about her sister’s ice powers. She’s smart and scrappy and doesn’t fall for any bullshit. Unfortunately, because of her poor choice in men (the Duke of Weselton), she ends up as a broken ice sculpture.

Gerda: The youngest of Ingrid’s sisters. She is almost kidnapped by a man with a kite and Ingrid saves her by using her ice powers for the first time. She and Helga say they will always be by Ingrid’s side. She also has heard about Rumplestiltskin, when they are older, and brings Ingrid to him to help control her powers. She ends up putting Ingrid in the urn when she accidentally kills Helga. Gerda goes to the rock trolls after both her sisters are gone and asks Grand Pabbie to make the whole realm of Arendelle forget about Ingrid and Helga. He warns her that the truth always has a way of coming out. He also warns her that magic always comes with a price. Gerda is convinced she’s already paid it, not realizing that her daughter, Elsa will be that price.

Character Observations:

Ingrid: She discovers her ice powers when a man tries to kidnap her youngest sister as a child. For some reason, killing the guy that just tried to abduct her sister with ice powers makes her think she is a monster instead of a hero. And despite both her sisters (Helga and Gerda) being completely on her side, Ingrid is still very worried. Helga takes the ribbons from the kite they’d been following (which was the kidnappers to try and kidnap any child it seems) and uses them to make a pact that they will always be there for each other as long as they wear them.

Years later, at their father’s 70th birthday, Ingrid’s sisters are trying to convince her to come and join the party. She says she can’t come out of hiding until her affliction is dealt with, but her sisters aren’t having it. Ingrid does seem to have a good grip on her powers if she’s still living in the same room as her sisters and hanging out with them. She doesn’t seem to have any fear about hurting them. Ingrid goes out to watch the ball and sees her sisters dancing happily and snow flurries start forming around her because she is sad. Apparently, this is the impetus for her to decide to leave for good. Her sisters catch her packing and don’t accept this. Ingrid is afraid she’ll hurt someone, and I still don’t understand why. As far as this episode has shown us, with the exception of the kidnapper, Ingrid hasn’t hurt anyone. Gerda has apparently heard whispers of a man, a sorcerer, that can help them. And it’s, of course, Rumplestiltskin.

Rumple doesn’t understand why she’d want to get rid of her powers, but Ingrid is too afraid that she can’t control them. He offers her lessons instead, but she’s not biting. He sends her off with gloves to conceal her powers (the same ones Elsa uses in the movie Frozen) and a failsafe, the urn that we first saw Ingrid emerge from. His price is the kite ribbons they’ve worn since the kidnapping incident. Ingrid doesn’t understand why he’d want them, but he explains that sometimes with love, ordinary objects can become magical. Ingrid’s sisters don’t want to give them up and try to convince her that they are her failsafe, but Ingrid is desperate so they give up the ribbons.

Back in Arendelle, Ingrid is sitting happily in a gazebo just holding the gloves and urn, and dressed in the icy looking outfit we’ve seen her wearing since she was out of the urn. Considering there isn’t a ball going on at this point, it seems a bit overkill. And why she isn’t wearing the gloves is beyond me. She’s been hoping to control her powers and she’s just sitting there stroking them. Those gloves would’ve been on my hands immediately after Rumplestiltskin handed them over if I was so worried about hurting people. The Duke of Weselton comes by and starts stroking her ego and then coming onto her. She drops her gloves and can’t get them back on. The Duke starts trying to kiss her and Ingrid shoves him back with magic, but I don’t see any actual ice, so why the Duke automatically thinks she’s used magic is baffling. Ingrid begs him to keep this encounter their little secret (which just makes me think of sexual assault victims who think it was their fault), when Helga comes upon them. He tries to convince Helga that Ingrid came onto him, and Ingrid seems to think that Helga will believe him over her, which luckily, she does not. Helga dumps the Duke, who seems confused that a princess would dump a duke to defend her sister. When Helga threatens his diplomatic mission, he threatens to tell everyone about Ingrid and that Arendelle will side with him. Helga defends Ingrid, but Weselton keeps going on his tirade, making Ingrid more and more upset, so when he finally calls her a monster, she uses her powers on him. But, coward that he is, he uses Helga as a shield and she gets turned into ice, then crumbles, effectively killing her. Ingrid is devastated over what she’s done. Gerda comes by and sees Ingrid crying over a pile of ice and somehow deduces that it used to be Helga. She immediately turns on her sister, despite Ingrid trying to explain what happened. Ingrid tries to get Gerda to take her hand as they always did that to help each other, but Gerda calls her a monster making Ingrid even more upset. Ingrid still tries to convince Gerda to help her, but Gerda backs into the urn and Ingrid realizes what she is going to do. Gerda opens the urn and Ingrid gets pulled inside. Notice that the only times Ingrid really used her powers was in self-defense. As angry as Gerda was getting at her, Ingrid’s powers never manifested, which shows she always had control of her powers as long as her sister’s were by her side.

In Storybrooke, the Snow Queen has moved her magic mirror up to the clocktower. Emma, Elsa, David, and Killian all barge in and Emma uses a magical candle to put fire cuffs around the Snow Queen so they can capture her.

Emma, being the ever consummate professional, walks into the interrogation room with Elsa, who immediately begins questioning the Snow Queen about where Anna is. The Snow Queen continues to aggravate Elsa by telling her that Anna put her in the urn and she shouldn’t want to find someone like that. Elsa gets angrier while the Snow Queen is cool as a cucumber. Emma finally makes Elsa get out.

The Snow Queen mentions Emma’s superpower, which throws Emma for a loop. Emma says they’re not friends. The Snow Queen agrees, they’re family, which Emma does not agree with in the least. The Snow Queen tells Emma that she’ll realize everything she’s said about her family thinking her a monster will come true, and when it does, she’ll release the Snow Queen herself. Emma’s not buying it. She lays out that they know who she is, what she’s planning with the Spell of Shattered Sight, and that they know she wants to replace her sisters with Emma and Elsa. But Emma wants to know why she’s been following her her whole life. The Snow Queen claims she was trying to protect her and that they’re family. Emma lets her know she has a family, but the Snow Queen says family is not about blood. She and Elsa are her real family since they all have magic and no one else can understand that.

The Snow Queen continues to play on Emma’s fears by asking if she’s ever seen them wince at her powers. Emma claims they love her and her powers, but the Snow Queen says she thought that once too. While Emma has left the Snow Queen alone, we see that the cuffs did not suppress her powers, as she manages to freeze the front doors of the Sheriff’s station. The Snow Queen continues to make Emma feel like her family doesn’t care about her by saying her parents could have found another way to break the curse and that her parents are using her as the savior instead of thinking of her as their daughter. Then she brings up the fact that they had another child to replace her and that he doesn’t have powers, playing on Emma’s worst fears about how her parents feel about her. The Snow Queen claims you can’t love someone you don’t understand (so apparently she feels her sisters didn’t really love her?). The Snow Queen tells her that people fear what they don’t understand and they’ll come to think of her like a monster. This angers Emma enough to blast a hole through the side of the Sheriff’s Station. Emma’s freaking out thinking the Snow Queen did something, but the Snow Queen lets her know that it’s all Emma, before shaking off the cuffs and swirling away in a snow flurry.

The Snow Queen then goes to Rumpelstiltskin's pawn shop saying she’s ready to make a deal. She wants her ribbons back. Rumple doesn’t think she has anything to make a deal with, but she knows more about the hat than he does. She knows he wants to cleave himself from the dagger so he can leave and still have his powers. He shows her the ribbons and she is practically beside herself at seeing them again. She tells him he can go out into the world and conquer that, she just wants Storybrooke. They strike a deal that she’ll tell him how to get all the power from the hat, but we don’t get to hear it because she whispers it to him, despite no one being around.

Emma: Belle has found a spell for her to use to neutralize the Snow Queen’s powers. Elsa hopes that with it they can find out what happened to Anna. Emma wonders if Anna had powers. Elsa says she didn't, which is why she thinks the Snow Queen is so interested in Emma. Elsa says it’s hard when your family looks at you differently because of your magic, but Emma says they don’t. They try testing the candle on Elsa, but it doesn’t work. Emma has to go babysit Baby Neal, so she runs off.

Emma comes in at the end of the Mommy and Me class Mary Margaret is at. She gets a little offended when Ashley talks about being there for the first time moms. Snow is quick to say she knows she’s not a first time mom, but Emma says she kind of is because she never got to do this with Emma. She seems fine about everything but then realizes by the looks on Mary Margaret, Ashley, and Aurora’s faces, that she is making the milk in the bottle boil. She claims that she’s been working on her magic and she’s just a bit revved up. Then when she goes to take Baby Neal, Mary Margaret keeps him away from Emma. Rude much? Luckily, Emma gets a phone call about the Snow Queen’s whereabouts, so she doesn’t have to deal with Mary Margaret’s faux pas.

Emma, Elsa, David, and Killian all burst into the clock tower and Emma uses the candle to create cuffs to capture the Snow Queen. Interrogation time. The Snow Queen basically gaslights and goads Emma into thinking her family will never understand her because of her magic, and because of the incident with Mary Margaret earlier, Emma gets angry and blasts a hole in the side of the Sheriff’s Station. She’s freaking out because her magic seems to be glitching on her and she can’t get it to stop, but the Snow Queen tells her this is who she truly is before snow poofing out. Emma goes outside to assess the damage and her family, Killian, Belle, and Rumple turn up. Killian asks what the monster (meaning the Snow Queen) did to the station, but Emma quickly tells him she was the monster. She doesn’t want them coming near her since she’s having problems controlling her magic. Killian doesn’t listen and Emma sweeps her hand to push him away and causes all the lights to burst and a light pole to come crashing down. David pushes Killian out of the way and gets hurt, and Mary Margaret admonishes Emma like she did it on purpose (what the hell, Mary Margaret!). Emma looks properly chagrined and drives off in the Bug to be alone and away from everyone.

Robin and Regina: Robin comes to Regina in her vault. She’s angry because she told him to stay away. Regina reminds him that he needs True Love's Kiss to wake Marian. He knows, but his heart brought him there. Regina reminds him that Marian is his wife and him being there is torture for her. He tells her he can’t just fall back in love with Marian when Regina is here and he doesn’t know what to do. Regina plays the selfless card and tells him to think about Marian and forget about her.

Regina is torturing herself by looking through the storybook and stopping on all the pictures of the happy married couples, including Robin and Marian. She looks angry and upset, but then Henry comes in asking for help with his tie, and Regina goes from hurt to proud mama. Henry has to dress up to work in Rumple’s shop, so Regina fixes the tie right up. Henry asks her what's up because she’s going through the storybook with her ‘scary’ face on. She tells him she needs to move on from Robin Hood. She goes back on about Operation Mongoose, finding the author to get a happy ending, and Henry says he has some ideas about where to look in Rumple’s shop for clues. I absolutely adore Regina in this scene. She’s so proud of Henry and it shows.

Meanwhile, Robin is drowning his sorrows at Granny’s and doing a piss-poor job playing darts, not even able to hit the dartboard. But he manages to throw one into the wall near Will Scarlet’s head when he sees Robin and tries to leave (reminiscent of when Graham did the same thing to Emma in The Heart is a Lonely Hunter). Will and Robin have a drink and Will apologizes for the last time he was with Robin and the Merry Men. Robin scoffs about it all being about a woman and asks where she is now. Will doesn’t answer, leading Robin to the conclusion that she’s gone in some capacity. Robin starts telling the story about he and Marian met, which Will has had at least 30 times at this point, but it was she who made him the man who steals from the rich to give to the poor and he needs to remember that to save her. Will relates that Marian told him she always saw the good in Robin and you don’t give up on someone who has good in them, especially if they don’t see it themselves. Sounds like Marian and Belle subscribe to the same philosophies on love, only Robin isn’t a lying asshole like Rumple is, but I digress. Robin wonders if Will believes in this after everything, and Will tells him if you find someone to ruin your entire life for, it’s worth it. Robin contemplates this bit of advice.

Regina is back in her vault looking at a picture of when she was almost killed in The Cricket Game, when Robin enters. He tells Regina he tries to be good and live by a code, but today is not one of those days and he kisses Regina passionately! I know there’s been some debate about whether Robin is cheating on Marian, but once again, Marian was technically dead for four years and Robin moved on. Just because Emma accidentally brought her back doesn’t mean Robin’s feelings for Regina can just turn off. 

Everyone else: At Mommy and Me class, Mary Margaret is there with Baby Neal. She tries not to make Emma feel bad when Ashley talks about her being a first time mom, but she sees Emma has some issues when she accidentally uses her magic to make the milk in Baby Neal’s bottle bubble. She pulls the baby back from Emma when she goes to hold him. Luckily, David calls with news of the Snow Queen so Mary Margaret doesn’t have to explain to Emma why she’s reluctant to let her hold him.

Emma, Elsa, David, and Killian all rush in and capture the Snow Queen. While Emma is interrogating the Snow Queen, David, Elsa, and Killian examine the Snow Queen’s mirror. Belle comes with research, but warns them to stay away from the mirror as it will make you see the worst in yourself. Belle sees that it is not the same mirror she saw previously, and David and Killian realize the Snow Queen wanted to get caught. They immediately run to the station to save Emma. By the time they get there, the Snow Queen has frozen the entrance so they can’t get in.

The gang all show up to ask Rumple for help to get into the Sheriff’s Station. Rumple really doesn’t want to help, but Belle begs him and he relents. Killian questions Rumple about whether he and the Snow Queen have a history, but of course Rumple tells him it’s none of his business. When they get to the station, Emma’s magic is out of control, which causes David to get hurt. Mary Margaret’s tone says she can’t believe Emma would do this, like she meant to hurt David, and then she realizes how she said it and softens her tone. But really Mary Margaret, why would you think Emma did that on purpose? Emma runs off and Killian tries to stop her, but she’s too afraid of hurting anyone else. Later on, the gang all meet up in the loft after searching for Emma. Elsa relates that she saw the same look of fear on her family’s face as well with her powers. Mary Margaret realizes they had a major parenting fail today, and that the Snow Queen doesn’t need her mirror to turn them against each other as they’re already doing it themselves. Glad to see Mary Margaret finally got perspective by the end, but really, Mary Margaret was the only one that was fearful.

Questions:

David tells Emma that there’s a trail of snow going up the clock tower, but when we saw the Snow Queen go up there earlier, there was no snow trail. Did she make one just to get herself captured? Also, how does he know there isn’t another trail going down? Wouldn’t she just make a trail over the first trail?

Where are the magic cuffs they used on Pan and Zelena to take away their power?

How does the Snow Queen know exactly when David and crew are coming back to seal herself and Emma into the Sheriff’s Station? Also, shouldn’t the station have more than one entrance and exit?

How are the ribbons so clean when the sisters give them to Rumpelstiltskin? They’ve been wearing them for probably 10-15 years at this point and they look brand new. They don’t even have any creasing in them when they hand them to Rumpelstiltskin.

Who is watching Baby Neal? Emma was supposed to babysit, and then Mary Margaret is with David and the others after the destruction of the Sheriff’s Station.

Ingrid is wearing some very ostentatious rings in the gazebo. Why would she be wearing those if she was planning on putting the gloves on? And why didn’t she put the gloves on immediately when the Duke came by to talk to her?

How come in the Frozen movie, when Anna gets hit in the heart with ice, she gets a few days before turning into ice and Elsa’s true love crying saves her, but when Ingrid hits Helga in the heart, she turns into ice right away and Ingrid’s true love crying doesn’t save her? Is Ingrid’s magic more unstable than Elsa’s?

Observations:

Arendelle’s time period at the ball seems to be reminiscent of England’s Regency Era.

The couples Regina sees in the storybook are Snow and Charming, Thomas and Ella, and Robin and Marian.

Will’s backstory with Robin and the Merry Men is explained in the series Once Upon a Time in Wonderland. He convinces them to steal from Maleficent with his own agenda of stealing a magic looking-glass so he and his girlfriend, Anastasia, can go through it to have a new life.

Will’s timeline is very convoluted because at this time, Once Upon a Time in Wonderland had ended and Will had ended up with his true love, Anastasia (the Red Queen), but this takes place at some point in the middle of the series between when Anastasia was married to the Red King and when she and Will got back together. Hence why Will had the picture of the Red Queen from the library in The Apprentice.

Gerda looks exactly like Anna when she visits Rumplestiltskin; it's uncanny.

Emma says the Snow Queen took a year of her life, but in Family Business the papers she found said she lived with her for 6 months.

The Duke says he doesn’t take orders from a princess. Um, if you’re in her kingdom you do. He also says he’ll tell all of Arendelle about Ingrid and that they’ll side with him against her. Sounds like treason to me buddy.

It is unclear whether Gerda’s memories were also wiped of Ingrid and Helga with the Rock Trolls magic, or if she remained the one person who remembered what had happened.

Timeline Issues:

Ashley had Alexandra a few days into Emma arriving in Storybrooke, around late October or early November. We made it to at least spring by the time the curse broke, so she should have been about 5 months old. There was another few weeks when Emma and Mary Margaret were in the Enchanted Forest, so 6 months. Then a few weeks for the whole Cora returning, Emma going to NY, Neal returning, and the whole Greg/Tamara debacle, so let’s say she’s 9 months after all of that. Neverland was a little over a week, but then they all went back to the Enchanted Forest for a year, before returning. Mary Margaret was 8 months pregnant and it was probably a month before she had Neal, so Alexandra should be at least 2-years-old by now. So why does she look like she’s under a year? And also, why does she look like a boy?

And Aurora was pregnant at the beginning of season 3b when she was turned into a flying monkey and didn’t give birth until after Zelena was stripped of her powers, which was the same day Baby Neal was born, so why is Baby Neal still a newborn and Baby Phillip looks about 6 months old and the same age as Alexandra? But also, did being a flying monkey prevent Aurora from giving birth, because she was pregnant when the curse brought everyone back to the Enchanted Forest, and Snow didn’t become pregnant until at least 2-3 months later if she was close to having the baby when they came back from the curse. Baby Phillip should have been born when she was still a monkey.

The Snow Queen seems to have successfully separated Emma from her loved ones (nice mentally abusive behavior there), and is still planning on enacting the Spell of Shattered Sight. Robin and Regina were hot and heavy at the end of this episode, let’s see where that will lead in the future. I still don’t see when the Snow Queen could have gone evil. As of right now, she wasn’t evil before going into the urn, so it had to be when she met Anna and decided that she would only be surrounded by magical people. We still don’t know if she’s telling the truth about Anna putting Elsa into the urn, or why Emma ran away from Ingrid’s home when she was her foster mother.

Please leave comments and reblog! Let me know if you’d like to be tagged in future reviews.

@searchingwardrobes @thisonesatellite @justbecauseyoubelievesomething @laschatzi @wistfulcynic​ @mariakov81 @lfh1226-linda

[itwasmagic]

WE COULD BE GOOD TOGETHER       ✦ reblogs are encouraged!

[dinneratgrannys]

ONCE UPON A TIME 4.07, The Snow Queen

[allaboutjmo]

[coaadra]

The pause is over and I again begin to immerse myself in the events of the series.

Emma's face describes this whole fucking situation. On the one hand, I'm very glad that Emma's power is revealed, but DAMN IT'S SO FUCKING SHE'S OPENING CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

When the others came to Emma's aid, I just wanted to lie down and cry after Hook's words about the "monster". Emma's look, her family's emotions, MISTER GOLD..... I want to cry because I can’t change anything, but I feel incredibly sorry for Emma and I would really like her suffering to finally end. So that she can finally feel loved...

Especially applies to Snow White and the Prince. Like... “Yes, Mary Margaret, I saw the disgusting way you looked at your own daughter when she accidentally boiled milk in her bottle” and “oh Yes, Mary Margaret, this is the worst thing you could do in this situation."

Taking a break from watching a week-long series helped me sort out my priorities and thoughts about the characters. All week I tried to somehow put myself in a good mood towards Mr. Gold. And guess what? Right! He ruined everything at the end of this episode. I am absolutely and unconditionally worried about this “lack of friendship” with the queen, and so far I only feel suspicions about him.

(All my weeks of thinking went to waste. THANK YOU MISTER GOLD!!!💔)

[vasfasan]

Whoever blames Mary Margaret for this reaction is a fucking CHILD or you just don't get people. It is obvious Emma has trouble controlling her magic, and just in general shit tends to HAPPEN on this show, so Snow being extra careful with literally ANYTHING is perfectly understandable. Yes, it hurts Emma, but don't slander Snow because of it. She has to care for her family, and that includes other people. For example, her himbo husband:

Have you never shattered a plate or a glass in front of your parents? Wouldn't you expect them to at least react to it? Especially if someone's hurt??? Emma just blew a fucking giant hole in the wall and knocked over a streetlamp, hurting her dad. Snow has a perfectly understandable shocked first reaction, AND SHE INSTANTLY CORRECTS HERSELF:

Mary Margaret behaved as close to perfect as a HUMAN can there. She is a capable parent, and I despise how hated she is in fandom for things being extremely over-dramatized

[queenofglassbeliever]

[onceuponarewatch]

ONCE UPON A REWATCH S4 EP07: THE SNOW QUEEN is now available!

In Which the Narrators Three discuss: Never Were There Such Devoted Sisters, Ashley Can’t Get Enough of Prince Fortnite, Hero Crew Beauty Bloggers, Helga is a Real One, Magic Trauma, Gosh Darn It Robin, and “People Make Bad Choices if they’re Mad or Scared or Stressed”

Listen to Once Upon a Rewatch: Spotify | Apple Music | Stitcher | Google Podcast | Pocket Casts | Radio Public | Breaker |

[florida3exclamationpoints]

"David we failed today... 😔" girly it was exclusively YOU who failed what are you talking about

[raayllum]

What Does 6x09 Actually Tell Us About Aaravos?

Now that we know a fair bit more about Aaravos and his motivations in canon rather than interviews or TDP short stories, and because 6x09 confirmed some juicy pieces of speculation I've had for a while (staff, Sol Regem, and First Elf—Archdragon relations I'm looking at you), I thought it'd be a useful overview of what we can glean from everything we get about Aaravos — and Leola — in 6x09. So let's get into it:

First Elves and the Archdragons

I talked about the potential peer-adjacent relationship the First Elves might've had with the Archdragons in contrast to the First / Star Elves and primal elves a few months before S6 aired. This was largely due to things such as Zubeia saying things like "In the name of the dragons of the First Elves" (4x03) and the fact that primal elves are seen routinely in subservience to the dragons, specifically Archdragons (the Dragonguard, the draconic monarchy at all, bringing gifts to Rex Igneous, etc). There were also lines where Zubeia was spoken of in a similar manner as Aaravos that felt indicative of something:

EZRAN: Zubeia, Queen of the Dragons, your heavenly majesty... (4x03) ZUBEIA: Our adversary was literally a being from the heavens. (4x04)

This is of course entirely literal when it comes to Aaravos, and hyperbolic praise towards Zubeia, but the parallel imagery / association stuck out to me, as well as Ancient Draconic specifically being the language of primal magic (already theorized in said meta to have been a gift from the First Elves to 'primal' elves and/or dragons). Given all this, I'd posited that "Archdragons at least once upon a time had been contemporaries of the First Elves if not peers".

Now thanks to 6x09, we can say it seems that this was true.

Sol Regem — or as he was going by then in his youth, Anak Araw — was a contemporary of not just the First Elves in general, but presumably their highest court in the Cosmic Council. He was the sole witness in Leola's trial, and there to oversee her arrest.

We also know that this point that the Cosmic Council / Order was involved enough that they dictated what merited the 'Order' and that they'd intervene to punish those who broke it, however well intentioned, so we know that the Draconic monarchy must've existed with their blessing, if not created by their hand for there to already be a hierarchy and trust established.

We don't know if the other Archdragons we're familiar with were around, such as Zubeia or Avizandum, but I'd be willing to wager that Luna Tenebris was at least, given that we know she's presumably not much younger than Sol Regem as she was the immediate Dragon monarch after him as far as we know. So it seems right now the hierarchy was as follows:

The Cosmic Council, maintaining their Order

Aaravos? Plus other First Elves who aren't council members?

The Draconic Royal Family

The Archdragons

The primal elves

Other misc Xadian creatures (rock creatures, mushroom guys, etc)

Humans

which was the hierarchy that was supposed to be maintained, but then humans were given/shown primal magic by Leola, and this led to the great upset by presumably putting them on 'the same level' as ordinary primal elves.

Speaking of which, let's talk about humans, specifically Aaravos' view on them.

Aaravos' view on humans

Aaravos shares very little about his view on humans in 6x09 directly. We see his views filtered through Claudia in 4x07 ("Aaravos believed in us when all other elves and dragons thought we were worthless, stupid, dirty animals. Aaravos believed we could be better. So he gave us magic!") but given how much what she says parrots what Ziard says ("When humans starved and struggled, helpless and pathetic?" / "We were starving and wretched and helpless"), how much that perspective holds up is of course debatable.

All that said, Aaravos' view on humans then is very much not, it seems, what his initial view on humans were through his dynamic with Leola. We know this in a few ways:

1) Aaravos' home with Leola was on Earth. This is presumably a decision made by Aaravos before she came into his life, which indicates a fondness or fascination with mortals / Earth his kind didn't typically have. Alternatively, it was a decision made because of Leola's fascination once she was a bit older, but one he was wholeheartedly supportive of.

2) Regardless, both options in 1. take us to the same place, which is that it is unlikely that Leola would've been able to form the friendships she did without her father's support and approval, both of which were readily given. Aaravos is happy and unsurprised to see her playing with a human girl, which would mean having a positive to neutral view on humanity.

3) The Cosmic Order was broken, and Leola punished, for the "crime" of sharing primal magic with humans. This was a law Aaravos was familiar with ahead of time, as he immediately understands during the trial that it would've been an issue.

4) Therefore, the most straight forward way for Aaravos to sow discord/chaos and further what Leola died over was to continue teaching humans primal magic. This may be what he eventually did with the Key and the book, and was possibly his original plan, despite the 'chaos' it would lead to.

(Side note: this line makes me think that Aaravos, as well as the other First Elves, are all basically timeblind by default.)

Basically: there's a definite piece of the story we're missing about how Aaravos went from witnessing humans having primal magic to actively cultivating dark magic with them. We also know he presumably stole a staff from the Starscraper, took its gemstone out (Laurelion's necklace that Claudia wears?) and replaced it with a stolen quasar diamond, using moon magic to hide the theft of the stone but not the staff. This transition of "humans are okay / I'll help them" (especially considering he reaffirms that Leola loved this world and all its creatures) to "I'll ruin everything and it doesn't matter what the collateral damage is" was always what I think we as a fandom expected to have happened, but it's still nice to have confirmation.

Speaking of which, time to finally talk about

Aaravos and Sol Regem

I'd speculated since Oct 2022 that Sol Regem and Aaravos had a potential personal beef between them, given Sol Regem's rage only really comes out in his confrontation with Ziard (3x01) after it's conveyed that the staff was a "gift from one of the Great Ones".

(It also was a chance to provide stronger characterization for both of them than if there hadn't been a connection in a series that already has very limited time, but I digress).

However, it seems that Aaravos and Sol Regem's issues go even further back than just "Sol Regem snitched on Leola and was instrumental in her execution" given that the second Aaravos hears about the golden dragon, his face changes from confusion/fear to anger:

Like he knows that if Anak Araw is involved in anything, it can't be good. This makes me lean towards Aaravos having a more positive view of humanity before everything, with this being the root of the issue that caused Sol "you are lesser beings" Regem to have their initial disagreement, and it all spiralled from there.

Conclusion: What did 6x09 Teach Us?

Confirmation on:

Aaravos had a positive view of humans and at some point during his revenge scheme, this changed

Sol Regem and Aaravos have a long, personal, and treacherous history with each other ("Tell me, betrayer")

Aaravos stole the staff and a quasar diamond

The First Elves and dragons / Archdragons were peers with one another and worked in collaboration

New questions it asks:

What caused Sol Regem and Aaravos to initially have problems with one another?

Are the First Elves aware that Aaravos game humans dark magic?

If they are, why wasn't that known by more Xadians at the time?

Why did Sol Regem testify against Leola?

Guess we'll have to see what answers S7 gives!

[imminent-danger-came]

Eldritch Abomination MK Theory

OKAY. @the-punning-ubus

I just want to say reading these tags are SO validating, because I have my little "MK was an eldritch abomination thing pre-hatching from stone" theory and seeing someone else come to pretty much the same conclusion feels good.

I've been meaning to write a proper theory post on this for a while, so now is as good of a time as any!

Obviously we have Wukong's "Not just anyone can wield my staff, but you did" from A Hero is Born and "The staff's just a big 'ol stick bud! It takes someone special to wield it" from 3x03, but there's also something in 1x09 Macaque:

Macaque: "Your staff kinda gives you away dude, not just anyone can wield that thing."

-

Macaque: "Ohohoh no, can't you hold the magic staff anymore? Well, you know what that means—there really isn't anything special about you. You're just a kid with a heavy stick."

-

-

The sweet irony of "There really isn't anything special about you. You're just a kid with a heavy stick!" followed immediately by MK lifting the staff again is not lost on me.

So, from s1 it was pretty obvious that Wukong didn't "give" MK any form of power, but we knew that already with MK being a monkey demon and all. I just think it's particularly intriguing that all of this was laid out in the same episode where MK proclaims "I am the weapon!". In all honestly, he probably was/is.

One of the main questions coming out of s4 is "why was MK created?"—Monkey King's stone was used to form another, but for what purpose? To what end? What reason was MK at the center of all these stories?

Well, here's my current theory:

MK was something in a past life, and that something needed to be contained—and so, to put a stop to past life eldritch abomination MK, he was then sealed away in the stone.

I think this scene in particular raises some alarm bells:

The stone cracks open, bursts with light, and then it closes—like something was put inside it. The scene could of course just be an aesthetic choice, or chosen to be this way for another reason we don't know yet, but it just feels so deliberate. A ball of light appearing from the stone, then another ball of light in the mystery woman's hands being revealed to hold a monkey, and then the stone reforming around the ball of light. I just can't help but feel there's something there.

Next I want to discuss the two key things that make me feel this theory has merit:

1.) MK has made a habit of breaking out of things he shouldn't be able to (the calabash in 1x05, the trigram furnace in 2x00, the scroll in 4x07, Destiny itself in 3x14) and the stone would be no exception.

2.) Every antagonist in this show has been sealed away in some form, then being released to resume their plans from before being sealed. Here's a list:

DBK was sealed under the mountain, and after being released continued his plan of world domination.

Spider Queen was metaphorically trapped in her fallen empire, and after being given the chance to rule the above world once again, immediately takes it.

The Lady Bone Demon was imprisoned in her tomb, and after being released prematurely (before learning the error of her ways), she continued her plan to destroy the world and create a new one.

Azure Lion was imprisoned in the scroll, and upon being released (by an unknown 3rd party), immediately worked to free his friends and then end the Jade Emperor's reign.

Now, I love foils, so MK breaking out of the stone he was sealed in, yet coming out an actually changed being unlike everyone else in this show, would be DELICIOUS:

Lady Bone Demon: ”No backup and no weapon? So, you’re plan is to fist fight a child?” Sun Wukong: “We both know that’s not what you are.”

(3x11 This Imperfect World)

-

Lady Bone Demon: "STOP! Have you forgotten? Destroy me and you destroy the host! Have you become so desperate to end me that you would sacrifice this blameless innocent child?" Sun Wukong: "You're giving me no choice! All the time you spent locked away, and you haven't changed a bit! I'm going to finish you, like I should have done a long time ago! I told you—you should have stayed buried."

(3x11 This Imperfect World)

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Subodhi: "I have not brought you to your master. Although this is the stone from which Sun Wukong once sprung, it appears overtime, it was used to form another. A simple creature, with no past, no family, and no name. There is a reason you were at the center of these stories—a reason you can harness the power of the Monkey King himself!"

(4x06 Show Me the Monster)

-

(If you want extra fodder for this, please see this parallels post :3)

So, if MK were to hatch out of the stone—where *he* was sealed away—and he actually came out of it a "blameless innocent child" with "no past, no family, and no name", it would work exceedingly well. Wukong's not above giving people second chances, but if you use that second chance to try and destroy the world, you force his hand.

(Side note: it could also be the case that the stone was used to "reset" whatever MK was in his past life, and Wukong was originally meant to destroy whatever came out of the stone—which could be the reason he stayed at Flower Fruit Mountain for hundreds of years. However, when an child came out, a new being without a past or the memories of what it was before—Wukong choose to let it go. He choose to let it live a normal life—or even ensuring it could live a normal life—and it then found it's way to Pigsy. This definitely gets into real crack theory territory, but I did want to bring it up.)

Now, none of this is even mentioning the suspiciously MK shaped figure in the mural from 3x13:

Now, the figure in this mural is only shown when MK is also on screen, which is framing that drives me insane. Perhaps this is when they first caught MK's past life, then finally able to subdue him and seal him in the stone.

And so, if MK really was this terrible chaos driven abomination in his past life, what does that mean ✨thematically✨?

Well,

Sun Wukong: “Point is, mistakes happen, but so long as you leave the world in better shape than you found it, then it’s all good. Right?”

(4x01 Familiar Tales)

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SWK: “ENOUGH! I’ve never let anyone dictate my destiny in the past, and I’m not about to start now. None of us are! We can’t change who we were yesterday or in a past life, or a hundred life times ago! We live with the choices we’ve made, for what matter is the choices we make RIGHT NOW! Only we decide who we are and what we do with the power we have.”

(4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

-

MK can't change who he was in a past life. He can't change that the roads all lead to pain. But you know what he can do? He can try. He can try and get a little bit better every day. He can try and help people. He can try and make the world better than he found it.

Maybe in a past life, MK caused just as must chaos and destruction as Wukong did in his past. Maybe he caused even more problems then he has as the Monkie Kid. But that also doesn't undo the good he's doing now.

Anyways, that's my "MK was an eldritch abomination thing pre-hatching from stone" theory. Hope you enjoyed

[chick-with-wifi]

Shoot relationship timeline

Shaw's perspective

Following their first meeting, Shaw begins hunting down Root out of anger, but there is also a definite element of fascination. Root managed to trick her completely, which is not easy to do given what we've seen of Shaw's cold-reading skills, and shares her enjoyment of violence.

Later, Root gets the drop on her again by showing up in her bedroom to kidnap her. Shaw is furious and only agrees to work together once Root proves she's getting orders from the Machine. Throughout this mission, she witnesses Root's loyalty, considerable skills and the promised violence (as well as other things in the CIA safehouse) that prove their compatibility.

While Root is in the Faraday Cage, Shaw consistently advocates for letting her help them. She still doesn't trust Root, but understands her and knows she will do what she's offering. Sure enough, Root is let out of the cage and saves Reese, which is when she earns Shaw's respect and trust.

Shaw now views her as part of the team, demonstrated by the way she easily begins working with Root when she rescues them from Control and is reluctant to leave her with Hersh, then goes to look for her at the end of the episode.

Shaw doesn't see Root again until she returns to New York in 3x17, at which point she displays concern for Root's welfare when she checks the dressings on her injuries. This could be because it weighed on her mind that the last she saw of Root was evidence she had been tortured, only to learn she had left the country with nothing but a brief message to Finch.

I headcanon that they began sleeping together again after this episode and it cements them as being on genuinely friendly terms. This is shown by Shaw enjoying the opportunity to do a relevant number with Root (including lots of violence), showing an interest in her life and suggesting a steak joint, implying that she wants to spend more time together, in 3x20.

I would also suggest it's around this point Shaw starts to realize Root has feelings for her, as Root's flirting progresses to adoring stares (3x17, 3x20), taking opportunities to touch her (3x22) and compliments ("She knows you can handle yourself." 3x22), in a way that seems genuine, rather than just trying to annoy her.

They continue as friends-with benefits, bantering and looking out for each other, until the turning point in 3x23. Upon learning Root is going into a Decima fortress alone and there's a good chance she'll be killed, Shaw stops in her tracks and decides to help her immediately. This is the moment she realizes Root means a lot to her, possibly in a different way than she's used to caring about people, and she can't stand the thought of her being in danger.

Although Shaw doesn't acknowledge this revelation in her interactions with Root, she clearly finds it difficult to walk away from her when they have to go their separate ways as Samaritan comes online.

In season 4, they don't get to spend much time together due to keeping up their cover identities. But Shaw still pays attention to and cares about Root, as she immediately knows something is wrong in 4x05.

In 4x07 Shaw meets Tomas, and is both attracted to him and intrigued by the life he's offering. But when the time comes to choose who she wants to be with, she picks Root. I would say this is the moment Shaw realizes she loves her, because although she sees the appeal of a glamorous life of crime abroad, what she really wants is to keep what she has with Root. She then goes to find Root, cites her reason for staying as "I guess there are things I care about here." and finds an excuse for them to spend time together. This is as close as Shaw gets to declaring her feelings.

Neither of them take the leap to change anything about their relationship, but their following interactions carry an undercurrent of intensity because they know what they mean to each other. Such as Root telling Shaw that "while you may not be scared about what could happen to you the next time, other people are. People who care for you." (4x09) and Shaw shoving grenades into her bag while saying, "She's going to meet an all-seeing, all-evil god by herself. That doesn't sound fine to me. That sounds like someone who needs backup." (4x10)

In 4x11, before sacrificing herself to save the team, Shaw kisses Root. Knowing it is her last opportunity to do so, she allows herself to embrace how much this brilliant, frustrating woman means to her.

Root's perspective

Root is already a fan of Shaw before their first meeting, having read her file and been impressed by her considerable skills. But, since misanthropy has been the driving force of her life, she is likely also intrigued by the idea of a heroic sociopath. And sure enough, once they meet it's a case of intense thirst at first sight, only furthered by Shaw's declaration that she "kind of enjoy[s] this sort of thing."

During their first mission together, Root clearly enjoys messing with Shaw ("Safety first." 3x06) and is thrilled to learn that she lives up to the reputation in her file. But Root also recognizes that Shaw actually listens to everything she says and acts accordingly. After a lifetime of being dismissed as crazy or a liar, that's significant.

In 3x12, when Root learns that Shaw came to look for her, she is genuinely touched and I would pinpoint this as the moment she realizes she has feelings for Shaw. She's been alone for nearly all her life, and now this incredible woman cares about her enough to come back.

When she returns to New York, her flirting is as blatant as ever but seems softer ("I love it when you play doctor." 3x17), as if she means it with more sincerity but also has something to lose. As mentioned above, this is around the time they start sleeping together again.

Root continues crushing on Shaw, but doesn't do anything to change the status quo. Until 3x23 when Shaw comes to save her at the Decima fortress, which is the first hint that Shaw likes her back. Root fully expected to die on that mission and sounds unusually serious when she says, "Admit it, you were worried about me." But when Shaw's reply doesn't reveal anything, she continues with their usual banter.

The next development happens in 4x05 when Root, again believing she's going to die, asks Finch to give Shaw a message. While unwilling to approach the subject with Shaw directly in case it violates her boundaries, she views her feelings as significant enough that she wants Shaw to know if the worst happens.

In 4x07 when Shaw chooses to stay with Root, she is clearly thrilled. Following Shaw's confession she teasingly asks, "and is that why you came to see me?", but the answer doesn't matter. She knows how Shaw feels, her actions say everything.

As stated above, neither take the plunge to change their relationship after this. When Shaw sacrifices herself, Root is devastated and willing to do anything to find her.

After they are reunited, they have both been holding onto their love for those nine months. Root never stopped looking for Shaw or believed she would betray them, Shaw viewed Root as her safe place. So I headcanon that shortly after their meeting in the park, they have a conversation about their relationship and are officially 'together'. This is shown in 5x10 by their easy, flirtatious banter ("You want to stick around, give 'em a proper welcome?" "Thought you'd never ask.") and tender, vulnerable conversation while holding hands ("This might be the first time I feel like I belong.").

[colinoeyebrows]

Colin O'Donoghue looking in a mirror

as John Bloom, the unaired Identity pilot (2011) as Killian Jones, episode 4x07 The Snow Queen, Once Upon A Time (2011-2018) as Brennan Sullivan, The Dust Storm (2016) as Gordo Cooper, episode 1x05 The Kona Kai Séance, The Right Stuff (2020)

[dinneratgrannys]

ONCE UPON A TIME 4.07, The Snow Queen

[aceofnace]

4x10 was truly one of the worst tv experiences of my life bc what was that with Tristan and Nancy, literally what in the fresh hell was that? They looked so in love, they have them so much it's driving me batshit. Even with the theory of the black door I can't accept that, the only way I'll stomach it is if he's some form of ace or has half of his soul on top of the black door. If they're going to go the Tristan is her soulmate in every lifetime but she's gonna choose ace in this one I might need to be committed bc who does that to their main ship in the last 2 eps of the show, the only form I'll accept is if she's been destined for Tristan but she's been choosing ace in every lifetime too. I can't even begin to imagine how they're gonna wrap this up in a way that's remotely satisfying, bc they're gonna need half of the last 2 eps to just be about nace, I'm sorry but now that we're getting no scenes of them actually together I'm gonna need a sex scene a rain kiss the most romantic hug and I love you soulmates in every life confirmation and a wedding or a scene that confirms they're married with a daughter or something I'm not kidding

I get it. Somehow, I was less angry after first watching 4x10 than I was after watching 4x09, which makes no sense because Tristan wasn't even officially in 4x09, but I think it's only because I went into 4x10 with the lowest of low expectations that we'd get any Nace so I was at least a little prepared. But I wasn't prepared for was...that ending scene with Nancy and Tristan on the floor. Yeah, they looked a little too cozy. And Nancy used her soft voice with him that she normally only uses with Ace. And that forehead touch? NO, THAT'S HER MOVE WITH ACE! WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING?

Look, at this point, I have no idea what's going on, other than it's something very strange and will end up explaining everything in the end. But will it be a satisfying explanation? That remains to be seen. My guess as of right now as to how or why that scene took place is this: if Nancy went to the black door with a specific sin with the purpose of erasing/altering her feelings for Ace (so that they could be happy again and easily move on), then it could explain why Tristan is so enamored with her—because the sin of hers that he ate was charged with her love for Ace. And maybe Tristan doesn't remember a sin once he's back in his human form, but it's possible that he subconsciously does. And as for Nancy, her newfound feelings for Tristan are easy to explain: the black door altered her memories and her feelings. She has only really shown any actual interest in Tristan since the episode after she supposedly went to the black door. Even in 4x07 when she told Ace she'd gone through an intense situation with Tristan and wasn't sure how she felt about it yet, it was easy to see that she was testing him. She wanted to see if that bothered him. And when Ace showed no signs of it bothering him (even though it absolutely did) she was visibly disappointed and so upset she dropped the dice she was holding onto. No, these "feelings" Nancy suddenly has for Tristan are not real.

If you re-watch that last scene with them, surrounded by candles, staring into each other's eyes while talking about walking paths together many times before, it's actually not as romantic as it seems upon the first viewing. Compare how Nancy stares into Tristan's eyes with the way she has been staring into Ace's eyes ever since the scene in his apartment in 3x13. There's just no comparison. When she looks at Ace, you can feel the deep yearning, the desire, the unadulterated love. When she looks at Tristan at the end of 4x10, she looks curious. Like she's trying to solve a mystery. But she also, honestly, look like she's maybe under a little bit of a spell. There's no real warmth to her. There's no longing there. And yeah, they touched foreheads, but they didn't kiss. WHY didn't they kiss? This is Nancy we're talking about here. This girl doesn't shy away from physical contact with men she's attracted to. If she had wanted to kiss Tristan, she would have. Heck, she was trying to kiss Ace for all of 4x01 even though she knew it would kill him. Now, you could say, "well, the Glasses interrupted them before they could kiss", but they really didn't. There was plenty of time for either Nancy or Tristan to lean in and at least touch lips, but no attempt was made by either one. That is WEIRD. Especially with how that scene was set up. Again, something very strange is going on here.

I feel like I'm getting off-track here, so I'll get back to the point of your ask. The soulmate thing is weird and very out-of-the-blue. I'm not sure where they're going with it, and I'm not even sure where I'd want them to go with it. I don't really see the point of introducing a character late in the game and then revealing that he and Nancy have walked this world together many times before as soulmates. That would be a very interesting (unaffectionate) choice for the writers to make, knowing how rabid the fanbase has always been about Nace and how we've been calling them soulmates since season 2. So we'll just have to wait and see what they've got up their sleeves. I'm with you, though, I could definitely get on board the train of Nancy choosing Ace in every lifetime, even though she's been destined to be with someone else. Any other scenario will probably not sit right with me.

After all the pain and suffering we've gone through this season, we deserve to get a "sex scene a rain kiss the most romantic hug and I love you soulmates in every life confirmation and a wedding or a scene that confirms they're married with a daughter". I'm hoping we at least get one of those, but I'm not sure if we will since time is running out and it's running out fast. No matter what, we'll get at least one more kiss, and it will probably replace their last one as being the best kiss of Nancy's life. But we might have to just accept that's all we'll get in the end, and we'll just have to dream of what could've been had everything been done differently.

[wicked-storybrooke]