#odysseus is lowkey the protagonist of all epic cycle

[katerinaaqu]

So how old is Odysseus exactly?

A small Odysseus age analysis based on a description in the Iliad

Many make speculations of his age, me included. Interestingly we have several hints in both art and the scripts but is hard to pinpoint. In general Odysseus is considered old or one of the oldest generations among the poems.

In art he is always depicted bearded which is something only men in maturity have in ancient greek art (somewhere between the late 20s early 30s) and his beard is full indicating that he is at least in his 30s. Most art of his, ranges from the events of the Trojan war till his journey and the murder of the suitors. In all cases we see him having a full beard. So it is pretty hard to determine his age but we know he was at least 30 in the war making him at his final 40s or early 50s when he comes back home depending on interpretation.

In the Iliad in the 23rd rhapsody/book we have an interesting description by Antilochus

"And this one (Odysseus) is of an earlier/previous generation of earlier men; we call him "omogeronda" (early-old man, green old age); yet he is really hard to be competed against in speed (lit: his feet are troublesome to compete) by the Achaeans, except from Achilles"

For starters he clearly states that he is "one generation older" (προτέρης γενεής) but he also calls him with the interesting word "ωμογέρων" which means "raw old man" literally aka "not ripe old age". The word has two possible interpretations; one that he is a "green old man" aka he just began to grow older or to pass to old age and two "a vigorous and lively old man" 😉

Now it could be a tender nickname that they call him "old" but I think the first interpretation fits better to the description. So we know that Odysseus was already mature man when he entered the war (bearded=somewhere in his early 30s and above) and he spent 10 years in the war. We know that he is "one generation older".

The age of marriage differs in ancient greece (for example in 5th century BC Athens, 300 years after Homer's time and almost 1000 years after the time Trojan war took place, the age of marriage for men ideally was 30 years old when they had served their dues although it is unclear how often it was being done this way) but we are to expect that a man in his middle 20s was expected to have at least considered marriage if not already have a spouse and kids. So if Odysseus is "one generation older" on average he is around 20 years older than younger individuals (anywhere between 15-20 years could be closer) such as Diomedes or Antilochus here or Aias. Nestor who was considered an old man was in his 60s. He was still active on the field just not the same way as characters like Odysseus were.

Given the characterization "ωμογέρων" in the Odyssey and the description of him being a generation older than many young heroes I should calculate Odysseus is in the same age group as people like Agamemnon, making him older than other characters like Patroclus who was also generally older (closer to his early or even middle 30s if we assume that Achilles who was repeatedly said to be very young he was in his middle to final 20s during the war). That would make Odysseus a middle aged man and therefore closer in his 40s at the final year of the Trojan war.

My rough estimation is that he is in his early or mid-40s when this conversation takes place. He is middle-aged and yet he is vigorous, sportive and fast (so much so that only Achilles is said to be easily competing against him while most achaeans have hard time to), he is also strong given the many times his strength in spear, sword or bow were praised but at the same time he is obviously past the age of youth. That would make him in his early 50s at least when he arrives in Ithaca.

But what do you guys think? Agree or disagree let me know to the comments below! ^_^

[katerinaaqu]

Odysseus Everywhere! (literally! XD) - A small humorous analysis on how Odysseus basically is the protagonist of the entire Epic Cycle

Don't you love it how Odysseus basically lifts on his shoulders the entire Epic Cycle? And I am not even exaggerating! XD

He is the one who came up with the Oath of Tyndareus (literally gave the tools for the start of war without wanting to.

He was responsible to fetch Achilles from Skyros and the one to uncover his disguise.

By etruscan accounts he was the one to lead Iphigenia to the altar for the sacrifice

By some accounts he was the first to lay foot at the beach of Troy (basically again starting the war XD) and dodged the prophecy that the first who lay foot to Troy would die first by throwing his shield on the beach and step on it so Protesilaus (former Iolaus) thought he would die and jumped second, thus becoming the first to actually lay foot on Trojan ground!

He is the one to accompany Menelaus during the negotiations with the elders of Troy trying to get Helen back without war.

He is the one to lead Chriseis back to her father and perform a sacrifice to appease Apollo with him.

He tries to keep the Achaeans in line (well...he also beats up Thersites that no one likes!)

He is part of the embassy that goes to Achilles to beg him to come back and try to negotiate with him

He is present to most battles during the Iliad actively taking part on the field

He and Diomedes are sent as spies to the Trojan side in the night

He is one of the volunteers that are to be chosen to fight Hector

He is the one to take Achilles to Lemnos and Cleanse him for the murder of Thersites when the latter makes fun of Achilles's mourning over dead Penthiselia, noting his crush on her.

On later, post-homeric and roman accounts he is the one to come and go with Philoctetes

He is the one along with Aias to retrieve and protect the body of Achilles

He wins the armor of Achilles and by some greek play writers negotiates the burial of Aias after his suicide.

He and Diomedes bring Philoctetes from Lemnos

He captures Helenus and abstracts the prophecies from them

He brings Neoptolemous from Skyros and gives him his father's armor

He and Diomedes infiltrate the city dressed as beggars and steal the Palladum of Athena

He comes up with the Trojan Horse and with the help of Athena's Epeius makes it

He is of course one of the first choices to be inside the horse

He stops the greeks from blowing their cover by holding their mouths.

He is the first to step out of the horse and scan the perimeter

He is either present or personally responsible for the death of Astyanax/Scamandrius depending on the source

He is the one to bring Polyxena to the tomb of Achilles to be offered to him as his concubine after death

He is the protagonist of the longest and only surviving of the Nostoi, the Odyssey in which he is the sole survivor after a huge arduous trip which includes the blinding of a cyclops, the meeting and facing of two goddesses, a trip to the underworld and many more including being one of the few male SA victims so clearly depicted in ancient literature

Odysseus being one of the few mortals (and probably the only one who is not a demigod directly) to get to hedes while being alive

He kills the suitors that threatened his wife and son with the help of his son and a few loyal servants.

He once more travels according to the prophecy to the mainland Greece to appease Poseidon and creates a temple in his honor.

Like without the slightest trace of exaggeration, Odysseus carries on his back the entire Epic Cycle! He is both the creator of the war indirectly plus the first one to lay foot in the land of Troy, the first to lay foot inside Troy itself not once but TWICE during the raging war and he is the last of the kings to arrive home! Without an exaggeration he starts and finishes the epic cycle if combined with all the sources from around the myths! He is also the character mostly involved in the things no one else would dare to!

He dares to be the first to lay foot on Troy

He is the one usually sent to do what others don't want to such as leading people to sacrifices or the opposite, purifying people (because no one gets their hands fucking dirty but poor Odysseus! Hahaha!)

He personally excecutes his own plans

He is the one to dare and come out first of the horse and the one to hold the others

He is the one sent to be a diplomat

etc.

Dunno about you guys but I think the true length of his contributions and involvement to the events is not talked nearly enough!

[katerinaaqu]

I am sorry but I am laughing my ass off while reading Sophocles's "Philoctetes" 🤣🤣🤣

Like poor Philoctetes wants to jump off a cliff and kill himself and Odysseus panics like "Seize him! Don't let him do it!" And seeing him struggle even more the cunning bastard played the most marvelous reverse psychology card I have ever seen in a while hahahahaha 😅 😆 he literally goes like:

"Fine, stay in exile if you want. We have what we want of you. I will master your bow or Teucer will and we are all good. You can stay here if you want. Let's go boys"

Like...DUDE 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[katerinaaqu]

Hahahaha don't you love it when characters in the homeric poems go like;

Agamemnon the warrior and king and Menelaus who has loud war cry we have Ajax who is huge and freaking strong we have Nestor the amazing peace maker and diplomat and so on and so forth and while we have kings and mariners hither thither and finally we get Achilles, the one known being fast, best in war, great with spear and sword and somehow surpassing almost everyone at almost everything (usually war related) and a capable musician...

And then we have Odysseus 😂

Like wits that rival the gods, master mariner, expert with the spear and great archer fast and fierce despite his age, ultimate survivor, master of disguise a diplomat and a speaker, hunter, carpenter and builder schemer and actor master tactician and a freaking goddess magnet

Like...Homer my dude...leave some talents for the rest of the crew will ya??

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[katerinaaqu]

Gosh I have started to love more and more Sophocles as probably my second favorite Odysseus writers after Homer hahaha 😆 😂

In the same spirit the first scene of "Ajax" and we see Odysseus sneaking about Aias's tent to see if he is in and here comes Athena to tell him "oh he is inside alright" Odysseus be like "you don't happen to know why he killed the sheep?" And she is like as a matter of fact I do I made him do it and then goes "wanna see?" And then

"HEY AJAX! COME ON OUT"

Hahahaha poor Odysseus be like

"THE FUCK?! I'd rather him stay in, thank you very much!"

"Why? He's a man after all"

"A HUGE man who is mad and has a personal grudge against me."

Hahahaha Athena even said "you're not afraid are you?" Hahahahahaha Jesus! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 and then we see Athena making Odysseus invisible so he can see what she did to Aias.

But now the image of little Odysseus literally hiding behind Athena biting himself as Aias describes with gruesome details what he would do to him as his prisoner is too hilarious 😂

Ps: I am surprised no one drew that either hahaha 😅 😆 😂

[katerinaaqu]

Kinda a prequel to

Originally for @prompted-wordsmith so yeah something I have been working for ages. April 1st for our poor tormented little liar Odysseus 😆

~~~

Guilt (P1)

The noise was deafening. It was a sea of people cheering and whistling; a sea dressed in bronze, leather and blood. Odysseus was pacing among these people keeping his head low. He was trying very hard to avoid gazing someone in the eye. He could hear their praise and yelps of excitement. On occasion he could feel a pat on his back.

"Huzzah! Hooray for Odysseus!"

"Man of Many Ways!"

"The one Equal to Gods! Hooray!"

"Sacker of Cities!"

"Sacker of Cities!"

His ears were buzzing. All sounds around him were silenced or blended together in a mass of unknown origins. His head was throbbing painfully and the helmet adorned with boar tusks seemed to be weighting more than all metal in the world upon it. Just a little longer...just a bit further... Blood had become one with his skin and hair. He could feel it running down still even if it was long now clotted upon him. How weird! Normally every person would be delighted with this triumph. Why couldn't he?

"Sacker of Cities!"

Just a bit further...

"Sacker of Cities!"

His previous noble prancing became a half-run now. He was almost pushing his way through the mixed people of triumph and of woe. Eventually he reached his hut and felt like breathing in relief as he ran in with his close friend coming right behind him.

"Close the damn curtains, Polites!" Odysseus ordered

He half-collapsed over the bronze bowl containing fresh water they had picked up off the river. He remained there for a few seconds, supporting his body over the metallic water container. He looked down. What he saw scared him; it was a warrior staring back at him through the dark depths of the vessel. His head was adorned with a helmet of boar tusk, stained with blood and scratched by some sword. His expression was hard and had sunken eyes in their sockets. The beard was shaggy and splattered with blood. His onyx eyes had a worrying sheen of death, of triumph and of guilt...

"Gods help me...that's me!" He thought in terror

The ambitious, flamboyant and somehow a bit arrogant young man was long gone. He had given his place to this bloodthirsty killer, the face of that man was reeking of sweat, blood and tar from weapons and smoke; the Sacker of Cities. How had they come to this?!

*

A few days before...

The room was buzzing by the men talking almost at the same time. All the Greek kings were supposed to discuss their plan on their next move but it ended up being a buzzing hive of angry bees that fought for a better place in the sun. Neoptolemus was still thirsty for revenge for hi ls father, wearing his armor proudly. The kid seemed to be one with the damn thing! Odysseus was still cursing the moment he decided to bring him from Skyros. This boy seemed less and less like a good idea for his expedition. Agamemnon was there for the glory of his nation, Menelaus wanted his wife back, this time time from a new suitor that took her as a wife, after the murder of Paris. Nestor was trying to keep them all in check, Diomedes still held a grudge against Paris even long after the mutilation of his corpse. Odysseus thought his head would split by this cacophony of tired and frustrated kings that each one of them wanted something different!

"ENOUGH!" Odysseus bellowed

The silence that followed was deafening as the king of Ithaca practically pranced through the crowded hall and grabbed the bronze scepter, pushing it to the ground.

"EVERYONE KEEP QUIET AND LET ME SPEAK!"

His voice had echoed long enough for everyone to understand that there was no stopping this man now. Odysseus took some raspy breaths as if he tried to collect himself before speaking.

"How much longer must this go on? How much longer should we keep this siege? Can't you see it? It's been a decade already! Troy won't fall! Trojans get new allies and we grow weaker by the year. Year after year after year after year we held this city and for what? How much longer will we stay here? Another 10 years? 20? I do not know about you, my lords, but I refuse to stay here that long! My wife and child waited way too long!"

"Do not wish to be king among kings, son of Laërtes!" A voice was heard over others, "you are not the only one with home and family to return to!"

"My lords, I can speak of no one else but myself. However I believe you shall agree with me that this siege lasted way too long. I have no doubt that there are many people; younger people in this council that can withhold this for the decades to come, but I have long stopped being young, my lords, and I do not intend going back to my home when I reach the age of Nestor and pass the crown to my adult son to retire. There are other kingdoms that require our attention, my lords! Not just this one, but our own!"

A series of hums passed around but Odysseus could feel it already there were some objections or some hesitations. They obviously didn't know what he was talking about.

"The war won't last much longer, Odysseus" Agamemnon the son of Atreus spoke, "we have already cut the tree of succession to the Trojan throne. Both Paris and Hector are dead, you managed to capture Helenos. Troy is losing already. I highly doubt we will stay here much longer"

"With all due the respect" Odysseus interrupted, "as long as there is the line of Priam Troy is not finished. Helen has now joined in matrimony with a new husband. Undoubtedly the widow of Hector will do the same when her period of mourning is done. And line or no line, the walls are still there, my lord, they are mocking us. We cannot break them from the outside"

"Odysseus..." Menelaus now spoke, the man who still believed in him blindly, "What else is to be done? We are not gods to transform ourselves to birds and get in"

Odysseus's eyes sparkled in a determined way as if he managed to hypnotize everyone in the room with just his fiery gaze, his voice sounded clearer than ever.

"I could take Troy in one night if the plan works!"

The seer audacity of his words was greeted with a silent shock and then a wave of chuckle.

"I believe you lost your mind FOR REAL this time, Odysseus son of Laërtes!" Neoptolemus called out arrogantly

Odysseus shot him with a warning glare. He had no idea how that insolent boy had heard about his attempt to avoid that war in the first place pretending to be mad but that was not the time for quarrel.

"I am pretty sure that the black ships of the Acheans rest in this place over a decade for nothing! We could obviously have asked you! I am sure you can also guide us inside the city yourself!"

"I have already infiltrated Troy!" Odysseus claimed.

The wave of exclamations that passed among the kings of the Greeks was delightful as it was annoying to Odysseus!

"We were protected by the gods, Diomedes and I. We disguised ourselves as beggars and walked about the city, I found their secrets, I know the passages! I plundered their temple according to the prophecy!"

With a determined move he threw the palladium of Athena to their feet; proof to his words. The silence he earned was delightful.

"I have a plan...if you choose to accept it!"

"That is not fighting with HONOR!" Agamemnon pointed out, "We do not do that Odysseus!"

"We fought with honor, Agamemnon...10 years now! And where did it lead us? We are still here; debating whether we shall live and die to the foot of Troy when the price is right there before us! If you want results, hear me out!"

As his onyx eyes stared deeply into his audience, he knew he had them now.

"I shall uproot the line of Priam from the city! We can throw them all out of the castle walls of the holy city of Troy! So, my lords, long-haired Acheans, if you want results, hear me out!"

Their silence was his confirmation.

"Here's the plan, then..."

*

Odysseus growled and snapped out of his flashback. How easy had he made that sound at that time! Even in his own ears such a promise wouldn't appear nearly as horrendous as it was proven to be! He felt a drop of sweat rolling down his chin but it was thicker. He could still feel blood... He grunted in annoyance as he removed that helmet that was crushing his head and sank his hands in the water, brushing them intensely. The water took a reddish sheen almost immediately. Blood was sticking way too much... Odysseus splashed water all over his face maniacally, even passing water over his matted with blood head. It was still there...the memory was still there... he felt dizzy almost. He rushed to the wine jar resting at the side. He broke the wax seal and filled a cup for himself without watering it first. He downed it quickly before having the chance to feel the burning sensation down his throat.

"Odysseus..." Polites started, alarmed

Odysseus didn't hear him. He filled a second cup that was gone the same quickly. He was still shaking.

"Blood..." he whispered, "Blood and death everywhere... plunders and rapes...everywhere..."

He clenched the cup in his hand.

"What have we done, Polites! What have we done?"

"What have I done?!"

"Sire..." Polites began, "this is war..."

A dry laughter escaped Odysseus's lips.

"That was no war, my friend...that was a massacre...a slaughter..."

He drained yet another cup. He was feeling dizzy and he wasn't sure it was the red wine at fault.

"Priam is dead..." he whispered as if in delirium, "...killed upon the altar of Zeus where he sought sanctuary... Cassandra raped right outside the sanctuary at the xoano of Athena...and Astyanax...the child is..."

His voice broke. He covered his face with his free hand as if that could stop the sobbing that was coming out of his thick chest.

"We're cursed, Polites..." he whispered, "Cursed...doomed! The gods won't turn the blind eye in this hubris..." he finished the cup he was holding

"Odysseus...please!" Polites exclaimed concerned, "Even so...what you say is right but still...it was war..."

"I gave them the key to this, Polites..." Odysseus ignored him, "it was MY plan that put them in..."

"Please, Odysseus...you...you didn't know..."

Odysseus chuckled. It was a dry, humorless one...

"Yes I did, my friend...I did...I just chose to ignore it..."

He refilled his cup.

"Odysseus I beg of you at least...at least put some water to your wine...don't do this..."

He placed his hand upon Odysseus's large shoulder.

"And no, that was what you feared...not what you knew. There was no way you would know the magnitude of it...you gave them the city just like you promised. What they did with it it was their responsibility."

If only it were that simple, Odysseus thought.

~~

Soon comes part 2. It will be probably 3 parts plus a footnote section!

[katerinaaqu]

So spake he, and to him did Odysseus, famed for his spear, draw nigh, and take his stand before him, and Diomedes sat down behind him, and drew forth the sharp arrow from his foot, and a sore pang shot through his flesh. Then leapt he upon his chariot and bade his charioteer [400] drive to the hollow ships, for he was sore pained at heart. Now Odysseus famed for his spear, was left alone, nor did anyone of the Argives abide by him, for that fear had laid hold of them all. Then mightily moved he spake unto his own great-hearted spirit: “Woe is me; what is to befall me? Great evil were it if I flee, [405] seized with fear of the throng;, yet this were a worse thing, if I be taken all alone, for the rest of the Danaans hath the son of Cronos scattered in flight. But why doth my heart thus hold converse with me? For I know that they are cowards that depart from battle, whereas whoso is pre-eminent in fight, him verily it behoveth [410] to hold his ground boldly, whether he be smitten, or smite another.”

Oh gosh that moment from Iliad gotta be one of my favorites as Odysseus rushes to the rescue of Diomedes and then he is left alone to fight the Trojans and basically goes

"Shit...now what?!"

Hahahaha the dude is basically the creator of the meme

"The risk I took was calculated but man am I bad at math!"

What a Muppet! I love him! 🤣🤣🤣🤣