#odysseus could see her at the end of the saga and go “oh you got thunder bringered too?”

[nikoisme]

I may not like the whole "zeus smites athena" thing but i thought i'd indulge rq with some scarring ideas. Also she bled ichor yeah

[merp-blerp]

TW: Discussion of sexual assault and suicidal ideation

I've been seeing some debate about Calypso and whether or not she sexually assaulted Odysseus and I want to throw in my two cents.

I'll say straight out of the gate that I don't currently like her much. I feel pretty icky about her personally.

Comparing Ody's behavior in Epic prior to "Love in Paradise" vs during the song feels so... clearly different. He seems very traumatized by whatever has been happening on that isle. It almost feels out of character for him to consider dying instead of fighting to get home alive like he had been, but putting myself in his shoes I can see how he came to that through what's textually known. He has been trapped on that isle for 7 years—that's nearly a decade, with no way to get out, everyone he knows and loves dead or far away with no way to know where he is or if he's alive. While I obviously would never think that's a good decision, I can see how he got to the point of wanting to end it. And if he's been sexually assaulted like he was in The Odyssey, I understand it more due to how that can warp a person's mental health.

I've seen some say, "Calypso is just a sweetie who doesn't know how to love properly" (paraphrasing of an actual comment I've seen). Even if she really just doesn't know how to care for a mortal, as many of the gods seemingly don't, I think she understands her power over mortals with her "Bow down now to the immortal Calypso" comment. She also understands that Odysseus doesn't want her, with the first part of her response to Ody's threats being "Oh handsome, you may try". She knows that he may try to escape by killing her (even though she can't die). Honestly, why would she feel the need to trap him if she didn't know good and well that he would want to escape her? She knew what she was doing was something that would make him want to run. Calypso being a goddess automatically gives their dynamic a power imbalance of course. Even though the assault is only implied, the fact that she's trapping Ody against his will, super infatuated by him, and still says "Soon, into bed we'll climb and spend our time", makes me feel like the indication is clear. What's stopping her from trying to have "sex" with him (sex isn't sex without consent)? She's already ignored all his declines. She seems to think that forcing her "love" onto him will make him love her. Yes, she uses lovey-dovey language so I doubt it would've appeared violent, but sexual assault doesn't have to look violent and the perpetrator doesn't have to appear aggressive. It's telling that I've seen some say, "Save that energy for Antinous" because Antinous is much more obviously bad, but this kind of thing isn't always obvious. That kind of assault is still extremely traumatizing whether it's sugarcoated as if it's love or not. It's dismaying that some reactions to Calypso bypass her potential assaulting or "She's weird, but she seems to care for him!" And since the sexual part of the assault is technically subtext (for now, who knows about later), I'll say that even if Calypso didn't sexually harm him, she still forces physical and verbal intimacy onto him and traps him so he can't leave. We see that. That's still assault. The only reason why I don't feel similarly about Epic's version of Circe is that her intent wasn't to have sex with Ody but to distract and throw him off with talk of sex so she could stab him as he's vulnerable; Circe never wanted to have sex with Ody in actuality. Calypso's intent was romantic intimacy and she didn't care if Odysseus said no, she completely bypassed it. Calypso saying "You're mine, all mine" feels as threatening as Circe's "I've got you" was meant to be.

Anything can change between now and the next two sagas. It could either be fully confirmed or denied that sexual assault took place. I actually don't expect either, as I don't think Jay would go too deep into such a traumatic concept in Epic, but then again I also didn't expect suicidal ideation to be brought up at all and it absolutely shocked me when it was, so I could be wrong. But whether it's confirmed or not, I don't blame any Epic fans who don't like Calypso or even hate her over what she did and what it's implied she did. It's icky watching some fans tell others they shouldn't hate Calypso because of this or that as if this isn't a sensitive and complex topic. It's creepy. I don't think we should tell people not to hate a character associated with sexual assault. The sexual assault might be subtext, but subtext is important and sometimes is implemented intentionally. Not every part of a story is going to be given to you at face value. Just because "Epic didn't say that" doesn't mean that the implication doesn't matter. People interact with stories in different ways, so you can disagree with others—no one can take that from you, but you don't get to tell someone they can't feel a certain way about a character. I don't like saying this because I really shouldn't have to put it in this perspective for it to be understood, but I can't help but feel like if Calypso and Ody's genders were swapped some people would treat this implication differently. Sexually or not she hurts him.

Normally I don't like taking lore from The Odyssey and automatically applying it to Epic, as Epic has changed a lot of rules from The Odyssey because Jay wants to tell this story his own story. For example, I personally choose not to assume Eury and Ody are brothers-in-law in Epic like they are in The Odyssey because that hasn't been stated in Epic so far. But to me, the implications of Ody's sexual assault are there enough for me personally to think that it might take place in both stories. Jay seems to want Epic to be accessible to many people, so it doesn't surprise me that this element of The Odyssey was brought up in a more subtextual/"hinted at" way.

Calypso is a very interesting character, maybe the most out of all the Epic antagonists so far for me, but we don't have to think of her as not doing anything wrong in order to enjoy that character, her songs, her cute physical character design, or Barbara Wangui's beautiful voice.

[The remainder of this post contains potential spoilers for the unreleased (to date) Vengeance Saga under the cut]

[Edit: Now complete with some post-Vengeance Saga release points]

Another defense of Calypso I've seen is that in the snippets for "I'm Not Sorry for Loving You", Ody says he loves Calypso, but not in the way she wants him to. This could mean they're friends and therefore doubt about the sexual assault could be cast.

It's hard to assess this because the saga's not out yet, but it's worth remembering that abuse can come out of care, in a complicated way. You can care for someone so much you end up hurting them, usually out of wanting to control them. Calypso seems to fit that concept. And most Epic snippets don't give full context, naturally, so who knows why Ody says this at the moment. Maybe he means it, or maybe he's bluffing to guarantee he'll get what he wants (which is to be set free in this instance), like when meeting Athena, or to appease a god, like when "apologizing" to Poseidon in "Ruthlessness". And of course, victims don't have to hate their perpetrators if they choose not to. Odysseus can care about Calypso and she can still have hurt him really badly. Both of these things can be true.

The way I read it, Calypso doesn't love Odysseus like she thinks she does. She's infatuated by him and cares for him enough to not be obviously cold like all the other obstacles Ody faced initially are. She declares that she loves him as soon as he wakes up on her isle without knowing him at all. She didn't even know his name. The washed-up person on her isle could've been anyone and she likely would've "loved" them. Calypso only loves Ody because he stops her loneliness, not for who he is. When she begins to state that she loves him she doesn't even know him. Over the 7 years, she seems to have potentially gotten to know him a bit, saying "I know your life's been hard", but Odysseus himself asserts that she doesn't really know what he's been through. You can call someone (against their will, let me remind you) "my dear, my love for life" all you want, but that doesn't mean you love them. Ody's her first companion in years if not ever, of course she cares for him on a basic level. She won't kill him or let him jump off a cliff. But she doesn't love him or treat him like a human and obey his boundaries and wants. She treats him like an object or pet she owns and has to guard.

In "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You" Calypso says that Ody is all she's ever known because she was abandoned. It's understandable that she would latch onto a living creature after being alone for so long. But that's not necessarily love, at least not to me. If I love someone I wouldn't bypass their refusal to do something. And I wouldn't trap them with me and not let them go, even when they're about to jump off a cliff because they see no way out. I'm not sure if Calypso means to bring malice, she at least says she "bring(s) no pain", but she does regardless or if she intends to. Calypso hasn't had anyone in her company, let alone someone to love, for so long, maybe in her whole life. That's why she doesn't know what love is, so of course when she catches fickle feelings for Odysseus she assumes that's love and has no clue what to do with her "love", as she admits in "I'm Not Sorry For Loving You". Calypso's actions are understandable, but that doesn't mean they're excusable or not abusive. What she does to him is understandable, but selfish and only serves herself, which isn't what you do to someone you love. Note that the way I use understandable here does not equate to forgivable, it just means conceivable. And her apology to him really waters down the magnitude of her actions, saying she "pushed" him, "came on too strong", and that her love might've been "too much" for Ody.

I apologize for this being such a long rant, but I wanted to cover all the excuses for Calypso I'd seen and speak my mind on why I think they're misguided at best.

Post-Vengeance Saga Edits:

Now that The Vengeance Saga has been released, I can comfortably say that I still don't like Calypso, and I think this saga just encourages me to do that. I wasn't anticipating the entirety of "I'm Not Sorry for Loving You" to basically have been featured in the snippets. I was expecting the official song to give more context, maybe showcasing Ody and Calypso having a dialogue, but no! That was really it. And I'm honestly happy for it. It seems like the show recognizes that Calypso is in the wrong, with the way we aren't meant to really ruminate on Ody leaving her. The excuse I talked about above using the theory that Calypso and Odysseus would turn out to have been friends because he said he loved her? I just don't think that held much water by release. I particularly want to point out the way @gigizetz drew Ody's face as he leaves in the commissioned animatic from Jay's stream:

While I can't say for certain that he doesn't mean the "I love you" in some way... he doesn't look like he means it to me. There's no lovey-softness in his eyes, like you might have when you look at your friends when saying I love you. He looks beaten down. Tired. Above, I proposed that Ody might just be blowing smoke to further get what he wants from her. I don't think there's quite enough insight for me to say I was necessarily right on that, but Ody doesn't actually appear that attached to her, certainly not enough so for me to confidently say that I think his "I love you" is genuine. He doesn't even look like he'll miss her, he looks beyond ready to go as she shouts, not pained by her tears. Honestly, Ody might've just said that so she'd stop talking so he could leave. Now there is one more saga left, so maybe he'll wistfully mention or remember her, but I'm not really expecting it based on the official visuals that Jay okay'd. Humbly, I'll say that I don't think Odysseus feels much for Calypso. We don't get happy moments of them together and not even a proper goodbye filled with mutual pain. We just get her backwards apology that basically says, "Sorry I hurt you, but not fully. Shut up and let me talk about me and justify why I trapped you. Wish you'd stop rejecting me despite the fact that I've hurt you. Let me shout that I hate that I fell for you—only because this hurt me unlike I wanted when I kidnapped you—who cares if it hurt you." This moment is not at all a redemption for Calypso. It's her downfall. Her negative character arc. She didn't want to be alone so bad she trapped a person against his will and now she is alone forever (in this show). She can't even have Ody as a friend (and she won't accept purely his friendship anyway based on how the song ends). Who knows how different things would've been if she had just been more... normal when he washed up on her isle? The situation was tragic for them both in different ways, but I'm not sorry for Calypso. Calypso is so interesting as a character. Side-lining her actions just bards us from being able to assess her.

[def-not-kaz-brekker]

no no but monster is probably my favorite epic song because ooohhhh myyyy goooddddd it’s like the entirety of the musical so far has been building up to this

Like “is the cyclops struck with guilt when he kills, is he up in the middle of the night? Or does he kill my men to avenge his friend and sleep, knowing he has done ‘em right”?? like in ‘my goodbye’, (end of cyclops saga) Odysseus is already having trouble sleeping (“what’s a title that a goddess could lend, if I’ll never sleep at night?”) LIKE OKAY JAY OKAY

“when the witch turns men to pig to protect her nymphs is she going insane? Or did she learn to get colder, when she got older, and now she spares them the pain”?? Odysseus references how long it’s been, time passing, in ‘there are other ways’ (“but it’s been twelve long years”)

“When a god comes down and makes a fleet drown, is he scared that he’s doing something wrong? Or does he keep us in check so we must respect him, and now no one dares to piss him off?” Pretty obvious; in ‘ruthlessness’ when poseidon says “in all my years of living, it isn’t very often that I get pissed off”

“Does a soldier use a wooden horse to kill sleeping Trojans because he is vile? Or does he throw away his remorse to save more lives with guile?” tbh I’m not sure on this one but could be Odysseus’ internal turmoil in general ORRRR the fact that he decided to drop the baby from the walls of Troy to save his family (“save more lives with guile”)

AND THEN AND THEN [agh I love this song so much]

The “ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves… and deep down I know this well” BROTHER YOU HAVE ME ON MY KNEES

“I lost by best friend, I lost my mentor, my mom, five hundred men gone— this can’t go on!” JFC

“I must get to see Penelope and Telemachus!” ALWAYS THE SAME WAY OF SINGING THEIR NAMES OH MY GOD THIS KILLS ME

“so if we must sail through dangerous OCEANS AND BEACHES, ILL GO WHERE POSEIDON WONT REACH US, AND IF I GOTTA DROP ANOTHER INFANT FROM A WALL IN AN INSTANT SO WE ALL DONT DIE—“ dead, oh my god.

I have a lot of feelings about this and feel free to add more thoughts on this

[capsizedskeleton]

epic the musical live review over a few days ft. getting high during storm saga

TROY SAGA thunder bringer was one of the first songs i heard so going to the horse and the infant and hearing don't make me do this please don't make me do this!!! i didn't know that was a callback reminds me of pathologic is great and here's why, where hbomberguy points out child murder is such a taboo and it's that game's opener (depending on the character) here it's the musical's opener fffuck okay ruthlessness was also one of the first songs i heard so "600 men under my command" after i know it will become at least 43 then 0 is hghhhhh. esp when they're similar melodies, the first time the number is mentioned in full speed ahead

CYCLOPS SAGA so i watched a few animatics of these as well before troy saga just bc mmm animatics and oh recontextualized w the last two songs of the saga thats. hm. IIIIII AM YOUR DARKEST MOMENT all the uses of die with the last sound stretched out emphasizing the eye sound oough remember them. remember us. remember me OOHHH ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT THAT. ARE YOU SURE

STORM got up to the first few animatics i ended up watching. by now i might be able to categorize the animators? gigi as Action, Cinema, wolfy as a few lines seeming delicate and shape so solidly, nealillustrator as the GOAT (ok im biased they've only got thunder bringer but it's really good and i know them from bnha animatics ok), ximena as line. color. solid expression fav things from various ruthlessness animatics: poseidon being a shadow horse with front-facing eyes, a spiky merman but tentacles on bottom, literally water that could form into different things, only his hair being water, a horse, a guy, the stageplay version, everyone having different amounts of frames and different styles, like every!! time i watch an animatic i spot a new good take, beauty in everryy style, all the goregous water animation, capturing odysseus, submerging him, putting him in a whirlpool. that man is now a truly soggy cat am i insane or is there wind blowing in the last verse of that. after what have you done. maybe ive just had shit earbuds before. brutal

i got caught up in listening to done for even though that was skipping ahead. i am going to eat gigi's animatic whole. the corresponding basslines for each character how ody's replaces circe's?? now watching there are other ways. the two together as a beautiful story in 6 minutes is amazing

CIRCE normal now i like done for and there are other ways a lot more than puppeteer. this seems to be a pattern in which songs i like in each saga eury's bit leading up to "a woman" reallyyyyy sounds like hamilton wouldn't you like beat drop??? done for and there are other ways are fucking brilliant they're a whole story like i said before. ill say it again. absolutely entrancing. love the take that circe's about to kill ody before he rejects her and starts going on about his wife. also the transition after "that prophet is dead" bungggg and then the backing track hghh i am going to eat the melodic motifs i am going to swallow the chords whole AAAAGHHH

underworld again. weaker start, but oooh full speed ahead a bit of a reprise moment there and ody's mom i did not expect that. left for too long wandered too far gods REPRISE OF I SEE A SONG OF PAST ROMANCE HELLOOOO halfway into no longer you and OOOOOHHHH FUCK this shit HITS despite everything it's NOT you

NO MONSTER THE SLIP INTO CORRUPTION gigi i would die for you and this sequence. you know the one

THUNDER suffering is so good (normal sentence) i love the back and forth the you know im too shy the tone change at the lair of scylla listened to different beast on the train (first time listening to a song w/o animatic at first) and oooh the switch up!!!! we're in it now! DIFFERENT BEAST NOW HE'S A DIFFERENT BEAAST NOWWWWWW scylla.... oho the harmony. mutiny ok the opening i fw but why tf is eurylochus upset about the six men sacrifice when he was the one who suggested with circe that they just leave the men behind. also luck runs out callback i love my reprises why is helios lowk brushed over like i wouldve expected odysseus or eurylochus to talk about heyyy dont anger the gods like we did before thunder bringer slay. we already know. the bumping beat from the horse and the infant we knowwww. it's a little funny mutiny is RIGHT before thunder bringer like. hey crew you just stabbed him you should be a little less surprised he chooses to sacrifice yall. not even chosen. not even zeus was surprised by odysseus' immediate reaction

MISC. THOUGHTS

talked to a few friends while making this, wrote the sentence "i can feel the old greek mythology elementary/middle school neurons firing up again" because i CAN feel them god and it's also like watching musical animatics after school except im not 13 and deeply lonely this time. decided to write a fic of what happens between each saga and in a bit of wondering for that decided to look up the actual story of the odyssey (shmoop is not perfect but it is decent) and wow that's a lot of changes made from the original that contribute to a well-characterized musical! god it's such a good time. is this what dracula daily people felt like, reliving an old (relative to present) story and relishing in the Themes?

FAV SONG(S) FROM EACH SAGA

the horse and the infant

survive, remember them

ruthlessness

done for

no longer you (the OPPOSITE of that undertale quote)

different beast, thunder bringer

TLDR

excited for wisdom saga !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skylarkva]

Day After Thoughts on the Vengeance Saga

I was super hyped for the Vengeance Saga, as I am with every saga release, but after sitting with it and digesting a bit, I think Epic act 2 overall is having a pacing issue. (This is going to be super long)

Like here's the thing: the Thunder Saga? Perfection, absolutely nailed it. And then we get into the wisdom Saga, which — although I thoroughly enjoyed it— had something about it that felt off. Now with the vengeance saga I'm realizing that act 2 just doesn't feel long enough.

I loved God Games, but it felt like Athena won the gods over too easily. Hearing the snippets got me hyped, and then in context of the song, I realized those snippets being the whole verse for each god felt too quick. Most of the wisdom saga is paced alright, at least for me, but that last song has been hyped up since the planning stages, and it's a really important moment! A little more back and forth with the gods would have shown just how much getting Ody free meant to Athena.

Now I'm not just saying this because Wangui's vocals are heavenly— we desperately needed more Calypso. It makes me sad because I know Jorge had another song with Odysseus and Calypso that he cut, and I think it would have added so much had it stayed in to the final album. Ody has been trapped with her for seven years, and we see him hit his limit in Love in Paradise, but for the audience that limit is hit immediately. We aren't given enough time to really see Odysseus get desperate, Calypso not understand his needs and wants, and her trying and failing to win over a faithful married man. Because the thing is, now we get to Not Sorry for Loving You, and Calypso is absolutely broken over losing Odysseus. Why? Did she fall in love with him at first sight, or did they talk and she fell deeper in love with him the longer he was there, all while he tried to push her away? That "let me speak" moment stands out to me because of this too. Without the context of seeing those seven years, I'd assumed all Odysseus did was let Calypso speak, because what else can he do with a goddess? So is that the case and she's just being controlling here, or did she truly feel like Odysseus hadn't listened to her during their time together. Idk. It doesn't feel earned and it does a disservice to her character. Plus more Wangui wouldn't hurt. Oh the Calypso saga we could've had...

Then we get Dangerous which, I don't have many notes that song hurt me and then was funky. I love Hermes, moving on.

Charybdis felt underwhelming to me, I feel like it ended too soon. Which could very well be the point, I had just gotten hyped off of the snippets and felt the final battle wasn't as impactful as I'd been expecting it to be. The ending destroyed me though, Jorge did an amazing job there, knew exactly how to stomp on my heart.

Get in the Water was the other song besides Scylla that I had been waiting the entire musical to get to, and I think it was executed almost perfectly, I really have no notes there either.

Six Hundred Strike....oh Six Hundred Strike. It was epic, it was chilling....but the first half just does not fit into the rest of the show musically. I'm mostly talking about once the six hundred men chant starts up. I love Aeolus' theme being used as an instrument, like I actually adore it so much, but those dang drums... For me it shoots straight past "this is a boss fight so this is a video game reference" into "this is Poseidon's boss theme for the Epic fighting game". That part of the song is the first time I've really said to myself "I can't see this on stage". Especially considering where Get in the Water ends musically, this just feels really jarring to me. I actually don't have any problem with Odysseus stabbing Poseidon. This isn't a mortal vs a god anymore, this is a monster vs a god, and a monster that god created at that. I think to make it feel less overpowered though, it could've been fixed with Poseidon saying "alright, fine" instead of "alright, please" to get Ody to stop. Then it would've been less that he was begging and more that he was annoyed and just wanted to be rid of him and never deal with him again. Same with his line delivery of "after everything you've done, how will you sleep at night?". I almost would've liked to hear him laughing there, like in disbelief, or in a mocking tone, only for Odysseus to shut him up with "next to my wife". The wing bag jetpack is also too funny for me to take seriously so I'm gonna ignore that for my own personal head canon.

I love epic and I hope the Ithaca Saga sticks the landing. I'm just dumping my thoughts after last night lmao

[picklesinabottle]

Oh thank god I thought I was the only one.

I remember watching Tumblr live reacting to Thunder Saga and the days following and just....the level of anger and hatred towards Eurylochus was getting so uncomfortable. Especially when you actually stop and consider his situation.

Imagine you're the second in command, fresh off a war. Your captain continually rebuffs you, gets several of your men killed by a cyclops, and you're starving. You find the wind god, and you warn him not to trust the gods so freely. And then after meeting with the wind god, captain gets a bag, and you're told directly from the wind god's winions that there's treasure in the bag. You're tired. You're far from home. You're almost out of food. That treasure could buy you some serious supplies, or even just give your men enough hope to keep going, but the captain refuses to share it. If the captain is so insistent that he can reason with the gods, then surely the winions aren't lying about there being treasure, right? You start getting desperate so you snoop. And it was the storm in the bag. Turns out the gods can't be trusted, and you're correct in your initial assumption. The god of the sea shows up and makes it very clear that he's here to kill everyone because your captain pissed him off. The man you trusted pissed off the sea god and put a target on everyone's backs. You manage to escape after losing most of your fellow men, and get to an island where a witch god turns your men to pigs and you barely escape with your own life. Instead of leaving while you have a reprieve, your captain insists on trying to reason with this god. After the last two gods, you just want to leave, as much as it hurts to leave your friends behind. Your captain gets lucky. You're then dragged to the underworld and forced to listen to everyone you fought beside lament over their deaths. Captain speaks to the prophet, but doesn't tell you what the prophet says. He continues not to tell you his plans. You feel guilty for your own role in losing so many men, so you try to finally apologize like you've been trying to do since escaping the sea god. Your captain then uses his plan to try and get you killed, killing 6 of your remaining friends. You had no idea this was the plan until you make it out. You ask for an explanation. You need to be told the reason why at this point. You've all been through so much. The crew is looking to you wanting answers. Your captain can't give you any. You're all tired. Sore. Starving. Far from home. Your captain doesn't seem to care. You mutiny. You find an island with cattle. You're tired. You're starving. Your captain keeps insisting "I need to get home" before "we need to get home". You're then faced with the king of the gods for killing sacred cattle. And the king of the gods tells your captain to choose who lives or dies. And not only does he choose you (which would be understandable given the situation), but his REASON for choosing you isn't "you committed a crime against the gods". It's "I need to see my wife." He couldn't care less about the fact that your actions offended the gods, that you mutinied, that you both betrayed each other. He gave up on you and the crew a long while ago.

I might not agree with all of his own choices, but I can see how Eurylochus ended up in the situation that he did. His fate was sealed the moment the war ended. And now that we're almost three months out from Thunder Saga, the rest of the fandom seems to see that too (then they're not busy thirsting over him).

So why did the fandom suddenly turn hateful towards him? Why be angry at him? He's not the only guilty party in this scenario. Where's the anger towards Odysseus for his own failings? He's got plenty of them. Is it because he's the protagonist and voiced by the composer? Or is it because of something else?

Now we're at Vengeance Saga and the Calypso hate is strong. Why is everyone thirsting over Poseidon and giving Circe a pass on her actions? Is it because they're more powerful gods or something else? I'd argue Circe's actions are way worse than Calypso's. Where's her hatedom? Why aren't people hating on Poseidon for his 10 year grudge against Odysseus?

The Truth? It's most likely because of unchecked biases against dark skinned black people.

I wish there was a like button for asks

[wander-wren]

cyclops saga:

polyphemus

so the entire stage will be the interior of the cave, with i think the entrance being stage left. it could be flipped though, doesn’t matter. i want lots of rocks, dim lights, some red lighting and accents to match the album cover. i want a staircase somewhere on the left, but covered in rocks obviously so it’s just a natural ledge in the cave, and some rocks that are big and sturdy enough to jump up on. those will come back in a later scene as well! recycling <3

much like the boar it will be difficult to do a lot of sheep, especially since they will very quickly get in the way of the fighting, so the compromise i worked out after some brainstorming with a friend was to do like 3 visible sheep, and have a rock wall placed downstage right to kind of imply that the cave continues much deeper than the audience can see. and the soldiers can act like they see more sheep back there. woo

as for polyphemus….the wheeled set piece is BACK baby, put him on a rolling platform. giant cyclops head that the actor playing him can puppet, and a mix of crew and ensemble not in the scene can move the platform and puppet his big arms and the giant club later on. the only downside is that you can’t really tip over the whole thing to have him collapse, but luckily next to the entrance theres a convenient staircase/rock wall situation for him to sort of slump against!

survive

i don’t have anything too special to say about most of the fight. you’ll have to be careful about where soldiers “die” because polyphemus is gonna need a lot of space to move in, but like, that’s not too hard

oh, but i think polities and odysseus should start out fighting side by side and get separated, leaving odysseus too far away to help him when he dies. drama. originally i thought odysseus could be up on the stair/ledge for that, which gives him a good high position to yell out orders, but i also like putting him on the ground amongst his men. could go either way

i also think it would be fun to do a slo-mo thing for the end where polyphemus starts singing, after polities is dead, while odysseus is having his thousand yard stare moment

(rest in peace polities. my baby boy)

remember them

even though odysseus says the best thing they can do for their fallen friends is to remember them, i definitely want to see some attempt at funeral rites being done. i looked up ancient greek burial practices, and didn’t really get much that was useful, but i DO remember reading antigone in high school and her “symbolic burial” of her brother, which was just funeral rites and a dusting of soil. that’s totally feasible for them to do during the first part of this song! especially odysseus with polities!

and i would cry. so i think it’s a good idea

the other cyclops can just be represented by like some glowing red eyes we dont got the space or budget or people for multiple cyclops even in epic fantasyland lmao

athena appears again from behind some rocks or perhaps on the stairs. i just like her coming from nowhere it’s fun

there’s seventeen seconds of silence at the end of this song which we will use to have odysseus and athena move in front of the downstage traveler, which will close, hiding the rest of the set except for maybe like a rock or a bush to ground them. this lets everyone (quietly!) scene change during the next song

my goodbye

unfortunately putting these two at the very front of the stage with basically no set doesn’t let us do much interesting with them. luckily i think the song itself is interesting enough, i love a good verbal spat

that said, i think athena repeats “consider this as my goodbye” too many times at the end of the song. it works great for a song, but onstage i don’t think it would be as interesting? even if they were on a regular set, theres only so much you can do. i dunno i don’t write musicals

but because of that i’m unsure if athena should actually exit or just stand there and have the lights go down briefly or what. if i were doing the show for real i would just experiment with various things to see how they looked but Alas, i cannot

been listening to epic (the musical) (the concept album) a bunch and my brain has been hatching lots of ideas for how to stage it, so i will share them with you, good people of tumblr.

some caveats: i don’t pay attention to any extra streams, videos, etc, so most of my context is purely the music plus some things my friend tells me. therefore i will completely be making shit up on occasion, like in the gaps between some songs. i also know that jorge has said the dream is to do some really crazy cirque de soleil shit onstage, and i don’t really know enough about that to include it!

additionally, i will be trying to keep practicality and realism in mind, but this is still pretty far-fetched and assumes we have a large stage and near-infinite backstage storage at our disposal. to be fair, the odyssey has a LOT of different locations and you can’t make a story called epic without some massive set pieces. also, my experience is mostly deck crew, idk lighting stuff or choreography or anything, so i’m just going to try my best with that.

all onboard? epic. commence troy saga:

vocab notes

stage left and stage right refer to the audience’s left and right. upstage means away from the audience, and downstage means closer to them. midstage/center stage are self explanatory. most theatres (i think? i’ve only seen a couple) have multiple curtains that can divide the stage horizontally, called travelers. i think that’s it.

the horse and the infant

i want lights down everywhere but stage left, where there is a big sort of plywood cutout loosely in the shape of the trojan horse, with of course the interior of the horse painted on it. odysseus and a couple of his soldiers are here

i originally thought you could build a small space jutting out of the horse for them to crouch in but you would have to have some serious counterweight on the other side. it would look cool tho. even if you do do that, odysseus doesn’t stay there long because that’s a pretty cramped and uninteresting position to be in.

when the soldiers all say “yes sir!” the first time, the rest of the lights come up, revealing the city of troy, which is represented by some more painted plywood backdrops of the city at night. they’re all on wheels. the lights should still be fairly dim for the vibes, and pretty blue and orange to match the album. y’all are gonna learn quickly that i loveeee putting sets on wheels.

also more of odysseus’s men are there! as odysseus names each of his men, they do something kind of related to whatever he says.

when they say “yes sir!“ the second time, well, you can do some funky group choreo there. it’s kind of hard because technically they’re not attacking yet, just sort of demonstrating what will happen. shrugs.

once odysseus calls out penelope and telemachus…my stage had these ramps on the side next to the stairs with walls, and we would put people and sets there all the time. so depending on the theatre layout, they will appear there on stage right periodically through the entire show until odysseus gets home. throw a lil spotlight on them. bam.

naturally, when odysseus yells “attack!” the rest of the soldiers charge into the city and some trojan soldiers can enter stage right to fight them. the trojan horse flips to reveal the other side is painted like a gate/the city. slowly, the city backdrops roll offstage left, and the fighting greek/trojan soldiers move off with them. the music here will probably need to be lengthened to allow for this.

simultaneously, a room for the titular infant has been set up. probably like two half walls and a crib and a fancy decoration or some such. i’m thinking some kind of projection of like, silhouettes of odysseus to represent his vision and the eagle that represents zeus.

then zeus enters stage right and has his little convo with odysseus, stepping back to sort of dramatically reveal the crib to him. he and odysseus talk, nothing special happens, zeus spookily exits stage right as he sings his last line about odysseus choosing the blood on his hands

of note, i want 90% of the cast to be soldiers in this scene. as the soldiers die, odysseus’s little ensemble can shrink, and the dead soldiers can be double cast as the various enemies and their sidekicks. the exceptions to this are penelope, telemachus, zeus, and athena.

just a man

i want to be very specific about when odysseus looks at the audience for this one. it’s such a private, pivotal moment that i want him to avoid acknowledging that anyone except him and the baby exist. the two main points i think he can look at the audience are when he says “close your eyes, and spare yourself the view” and the “forgive me”s.

otherwise not much special in this song, its just odysseus holding a baby. he can act like he might drop it, from the wall, just so the audience is Aware, but it’s definitely important that by the end of the song what he does is ambiguous

i know the musical is meant to be sung through and so i want to avoid having moments where the stage goes dark for scene changes, but there are points where it’s unavoidable bc of the crazy set this thing has to have. so, we will put one right at the end here, keep the music real quiet for the audience to just sit and absorb this song

full speed ahead

when the lights come back up, we’ll have odysseus’s ship on stage left-centerish (odysseus should always be traveling from left to right, basically, since ithaca is stage right) and that’s all

dadada we introduce eurylochus and polities, then set for the island starts coming out on stage left for polities to comment on. the island sets can all be painted backdrops, so then theres two sides for some variety, and the same set of rocks/plants/trees arranged in different ways to show its a new place. i want the colors and things to be very bright and just this side of unnatural, because this isn’t home, they’re strange lands.

the boat can slowly be going off left as odysseus and polities make their way onto the island at the end of the song, which ofc flows right into the next

open arms

polities and odysseus wander across the stage for this, nothing exciting.

definitely can do some fun costuming with the lotus eaters when they pop up. i’m thinking of the trolls (or the hidden folk, i guess?) from frozen on broadway. but creepier, maybe

not a note but i just love this song i love polities so much <3 my bestie

once they get the location of the cave, they can start walking back left and the lotus eaters can go off, taking/rearranging their set as they do because it’s about to be a new island. lights go down there as well. odysseus slows his steps to stop roughly center stage, or center-left depending on how big the stage is. he looks conflicted about what’s just happened. polities slowly walks off as he sings

athena comes out of somewhere. i think it would be fun for her to pop out from behind the set as opposed to entering from the wings. when she says “have you forgotten your purpose? let me remind you,” lights can come up on the right, kind of yellowy? i imagine ithaca as being very yellow for some reason. maybe some flickering to represent going into a flashback.

i know it’s not the original idea, but i think having a second actor play younger odysseus fighting the boar and stuff would be best/clearest. i have NO idea how to do the boar bc i feel like it would look kinda silly any way you did it? but that happens

athena this whole time is standing outside of the yellow light, narrating the flashback to odysseus. when young!ody starts calling her out, he doesnt look directly at her (because he’s bluffing, of course), until she steps into the light, which both symbolizes her dropping the spell and entering the flashback story

young!ody leaves and athena returns to odysseus after the last chorus, as she says “i still intend to make sure you don’t fall behind.” she gets very close to him to warn “don’t disappoint me” at the end, which makes odysseus look at her stubbornly. lights down, unfortunately, for another scene change to the cyclops cave

[romana73]

REYLO VS HERCULES

Post written by ME. The animated gifs and pictures shown, however, AREN’T MINE and DON’T BELONG TO ME IN ANY WAY. Sorry for mistakes, but English isn’t my first language

Before going into this post’s subject, I wanted say a my OPINION: I notice these days some has returned to talk about Episode IX as if it should resume from "Star Wars. Episode VII. The Force Awakens" end by canceling "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi", acting as if that movie had never existed: Rey who adjusts Anakin's lightsaber, broken during fight between her and Kylo in throne room, Kylo who adjusts her old mask, which HIMSELF broke in elevator... a few days back to theory "Rey is Luke’s daughter, therefore, a hidden Skywalker, so romantic Reylo can’t be, ‘cause she and Kylo are relatives", thanks also to Kery Russell presence on set, coincidentally, a temporary leak identifies as "Luke’s secret love", in spite of Rey age 19 and Kylo Ren 29 years, make CHRONOLOGICALLY and MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR REY BEING DAUGHTER of LUKE and, therefore, a SKYWALKER. My recent post about WHY, in my opinion, Rey ISN’T a Skywalker is here:

https://romana73.tumblr.com/post/182247877011/why-rey-cant-be-a-skywalker-logic-reasoning-post

An advice: you FEEL your SOUL IN PEACE. TLJ EXISTS, it’s part of Star Wars saga. JJ. Abrams, whom I RESPECT, I sure he WON’T CANCEL TLJ and he won’t even pretend it has ever existed. Romantic Reylo and their connection EXIST, JJ Abrams invented them in TFA. Closed this parenthesis, let's go back to this post’s topic. This is third, perhaps fourth post, I write in response to those who argue Rey, good heroine, will never fall in love with Ben/Kylo Ren, ‘cause he’s VILLAN and NEVER allow GOOD heroine fall in love with story’s villain... then you see Hercules, a cartoon movie by Walt Disney in 1997...story is: Zeus son, day Hercules is born, Fates preaches to Hades, God of the Underworld and of the souls, brother of Zeus that, if Hercules will grow and fight, he will be finished. Hades sends his helpers Pain and Panic to make Hercules human so he can kill him. Two kidnap Hercules and take him to Earth, where they start to make him drink portion, but a human couple arrives and Pain and Panic can’t make Hercules drink whole portion, so he becomes human, but endowed with supernatural strength. Meanwhile, Zeus seeks Hercules for all of Creation, when he finds him, however, Hercules has become human and Zeus leaves him on earth, with human couple. Become a teenager, Hercules is kind, sunny and helps everyone. Unfortunately, he can’t control his strength and ends up disasters. Result is Hercules is marginalized by everyone and dubbed "destroyer". One day, after umpteenth disaster, inhabitants hunt Hercules from city. Adoptive parents reveal truth to Hercules and boy goes to Gods temple to question them. In response to his prayer, Zeus statue comes alive and reveals to Hercules he’s his father. Zeus reveals to boy, in order to return to be a God and rise on Olympus, however, he will have to become a REAL HERO on Earth. Zeus gives Pegasus, winged horse to Hercules and sends him to Philoctetes, a satyr, hero coach. At first, Philoctetes refuses to take Hercules as a pupil, but then he lets himself be convinced. Become an adult, one day, in the woods, Hercules meets beautiful Megara and saves her from a centaur who holds her captive. For Hercules it’s love at first sight, but Megara is linked to Hades to whom she sold her soul in order to save her man’s life who, afterwards, betrayed her and abandoned her. As soon as he learns Hercules is alive, Hades begins to plot against him, even using Megara herself...

“I am warning you. You keep that-that-that.. FREAK away from here!”

“FREAK! Yeah, go away!”

(Villagers against Hercules, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

“Son, you shouldn't let those things they said back there get to you”

“But Pop, they're right. I-I AM A FREAK. I try to fit in, I really do. I just can't”

(Amphitryon and Hercules, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

In TFA, in a discussion, Leia Organa and Han Solo, remember to have give their son Ben Solo to Luke, away from home, ‘cause they were frightened by fact "there was too much VADER in him"

In TFA e in TLJ, Rey call Kylo Ren MONSTER:

[...]

“You have that look in your eyes. From the forest. You called me a MONSTER”

“You are a MONSTER”

“Yes, I AM”

(Rey and Ben Solo/Kylo Ren, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“Oh mighty Zeus, please, hear me and answer my prayer. I need to know: WHO AM I? WH- WHERE DO I BELONG?“

( Hercules to Zeus, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

“WHO ARE YOU?”

( Luke Skywalker to Rey, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“I need someone to show me my place in all of this”

( Rey to Luke Skywalker, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“I trained all those would-be heroes. Odysseus, Perseus, Theseus. A lot of "yusses". And every single one of those bums let me down flatter than a discus. None of them could go the distance. And then there was Achilles. Now there was a guy who had it all; the build, the foot-speed. He could jab! He could take a hit! He could keep on comin'! But that forslugginer heel of his! He barely gets nicked there once and kaboom! He's history. Yeah, I had a dream once. I dreamed I would train the greatest hero there ever was. So great the gods would hang a picture of him in the stars for everyone to see. And everyone would say, "That's Phil's boy." That's right... Ah, but dreams are for rookies. A guy can only take so much disappointment”

“But I am different than those other guys, Phil! I can go the distance Come on, I'll show you”

(Philoctetes and Hercules, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

“I will never train another generation of Jedi”

(Luke Skywalker to Rey, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“At the height of their powers, they allowed Darth Sidious to rise, create the Empire, and wipe them out. It was a Jedi Master who was responsible for the training and creation of Darth Vader [...] For many years, there was balance, and then I saw... Ben. My nephew with that mighty Skywalker blood. And in my hubris, I thought I could train him; I could pass on my strengths. Han was...Han was about it, but... Leia trusted me with her son. I took him, and a dozen students, and began a training temple. By the time I realized I was no match for the darkness rising in him, it was too late [...] I went to confront him, and he turned on me. He must've thought I was dead. When I came to, the temple was burning. He had vanished with a handful of my students, and slaughtered the rest. Leia blamed Snoke, but... it was me. I failed. Because I was Luke Skywalker. Jedi Master. A legend”

“ [...] And you didn't fail Kylo. Kylo failed you. I won't”

( Luke Skywalker and Rey, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“I'm about to rearrange the Cosmos and the one schlemiel who can louse it up is waltzing around in the woods!”

(Hades about Hercules, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

“Skywalker lives! The seed of the Jedi Order lives! As long as he does... hope lives in the galaxy”

(Snoke about Luke, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

“See, he's gotta have a weakness, because everybody's got a weakness [...]”

(Hades to Megara, about Hercules, from 1997 “Hercules” animated movie)

“[...] A cur's weakness, properly manipulated, can be a sharp tool [...]”

(Snoke to Kylo Ren, from "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" movie)

In animated movie "Hercules", Ade is called SUPREME and MASTER from Megara. In the Star Wars TFA and TLJ movies, Snoke is FIRST ORDER SUPREME LEADER and Kylo Ren’s MASTER. Only at "Star Wars. Episode VIII. The Last Jedi" end, Kylo Ren becomes the Supreme Leader; In animated movie, Hercules often scoops Megara in his arms. In a touching scene, Hercules BRINGS Megara’s soul in his arms, putting it back into the girl's body:

In "Star Wars. Episode VII. The Force Awakens" movie, Kylo Ren asleep Rey and he SCOOP HER IN HIS ARMS: