#odysseus comrades

[katerinaaqu]

The Humanity of Odysseus and the Importance of the Curse of Polyphemus (an Odyssey Analysis on Fate and Destiny)

I believe there is one thig that needs to be said about the Odyssey and Odysseus in particular and something I have rarely seen properly adapted. It is the importance of the unchangable fate in antiquity in general and homeric poems in particular. One can say this starts from the character itself; Odysseus name meaning "Anger Bringer" or "Furious" is an indicator that not only the character will be dusliked by many but that he would also cause anger which one can expect would lead to terrible consequences. However I believe the moment Odysseus was truly deprived of all his choices was the infamous Curse of Polyphemus:

In Rhapsody/Book 9 of the Odyssey, Odysseus describes his misadventure with the cyclops Polyphemus and when he revealed himself to him, Polyphemus prays to his father, Poseidon, giving Odysseus a double-curse (as it happens to most predictions that have at least two ways they can go) which goes like this:

"I call upon you, Poseidon, Earth-bearer with cyan/black/dark hair, if I am your son and you wish to be my father (you wish to be called my father), do it for me so that Odysseus the Sacker of Cities will never reach his home, the son of Laertes who calls Ithaca his home, but if fate calls for him to see his friends and reach his well-built home and his ancestral land, make it so it will be terrible (here return), that he will lose all his companions and in a foreign ship and find misery waiting for him at his home!"

(Translation by me)

So as you can see the curse has two different outcomes

He will never see his home again

If he does, it will be without his companions brought by a foreign ship and he will find misery at his own home when he arrives

At this point, given that the story is "in media res" aka "told from the middle", we know now that the second part is fulfilled, or almost fulfilled. Odysseus is in Scheria, he is alone, he is shipwrecked, there is no sign of any of his companions anywhere so we expect him to return at this foreign ship, aka a Phaeacaean ship to his home at any moment. However by the moment the curse is placed, Odysseus doesn't know which outcome is to befall upon him. And while the second part is weirdly specific (and in a way preparing us for the outcome) the first one is not nearly speficic enough!

Make it so he never sees his land again.

This could mean anything; does he get killed in the ardous trip? Does he get straddled to a place for the rest of his life? Does he somehow lose his...memory and never return home again (similarly to how his men ate the Lotuses at the Lotophagi land)? What is more, nowhere in this part does it say his comrades will survive the ordeal. Although the curse means specifically for Odysseus not reaching his home and one could assume his men would but not Odysseus, that is not guaranteed.

Both of these scenarios are terribly gloom for both Odysseus and his men. So what does Odysseus do? He does what every human being would have done;

He tries to change fate!

He tries constantly to lift the curse:

Even if he knows deep down is pointless, even if he more or less has realized they are off for an arduous trip that will cost them probably all of them their lives, Odysseus STILL TRIES to change the fate! He sails off to find help. He goes to Aiolus and asks for help. He gets the bag. At this point Odysseus is at the end of his wits. He has a chance, he thinks, to change fate, to change the curse. He remains awake for 9 days to make sure he will (see also my other analysis in regards to that) and yet it is all in vain. His men open the bag JUST A LITTLE BEFORE they reach Ithaca and pushed back.

At this point it becomes all the more clear that they are up for an endless journey or a settlement away from home at best case scenario and all to die at worst case scenario. Odysseus doesn't give up! He asks AGAIN, this time he is denied.

And then comes destruction...

They reach the idland of the giant Laistrygonians and here Odysseus suffers the worst loss he has suffered so far; he loses 11 out of his 12 ships in a single raid and barely manages to escape with the rest of his comrades resting on his ship. Right now is clearer than ever that the curse is taking place so the real question is; which of the parts shall it be fulfulled? And they reach the land of Circe. Plenty of his men turn into pigs. Eurylochus barely escapes doom and runs at him to tell him "LEAVE THEM AND GO". Odysseus knows in his bones they are doomed! He knows he either leaves them and fulfulles the second prophecy (for his men already perish little by little) or either way the first part of the prophecy is fulfilled. What does Odysseus do?

He tries AGAIN!

He sells himself to Circe, he requests his men's freedom. He ASKS Circe for advice, he descends the Underworld, asks Tiresias for a course; how he can reach his home, how he can save his men, how he can REVERSE THE CURSE. Even if he knows it is impossible to challenge fate (not even Zeus could transcend fate). In a way he comits a form of hubris hoping to change fate. And yet he is HUMAN! He cannot accept that his men would die that he cannot go home. He wants to TRY! So sure enough he gets a possible way out...

Tiresias gives him hope...

The prophet tells him he can save his men AND reach Ithaca IF they do not eat the cattle of Helios Hyperion. What is more Circe gives him advice for the trip; the course they can follow, the steps they can take and again the warning of NOT eating the cattle of Helios. Odysseus takes heart to those, he DESPERATELY GRABS on them! He thinks he has a chance. Maybe...JUST MAYBE he can reverse this terrible curse! He can MAKE IT RIGHT! He has a chance to change fate! He has a chance to reverse it!

Self-Fulfilled Prophecy

Little does he know though that the trip is already set for failiure. Skylla claims 6 of his best men (his men CONTINUE TO PERISH) and yet Odysseus thinks that this is a sign that he can make it, that the terrible sacrifices will pay off and that he is on his way to break the curse. He is following the instructions therefore it must go well. And come the Cattle Of Helios Hyperion.

An attempt to dodge fate...

Odysseus tells to his men that they should not stop at the island now. He is not ready to take another risk. He will not do the same as the sack of Aiolus. He wants to AVOID THE ISLE ALTOGETHER. If his men are not tepted, they will not break. He intends to keep going and it could have worked...but...

Sure enough his men are tired they need to stop

Odysseus has no choice. At this point he probably realizes there is no way to change fate. He sees it now that everything is up for destruction and he still doesn't know WHICH VERSION will be fulfulled! And even if every part of his brain tells him everything is lost Odysseus REFUSES TO GIVE UP! No, this cannot be the end! There must still be time and space to reverse it!

He makes them promise

Odysseus makes his men swear to everything sacred that no matter what they shall not touch the cattle. That they would survive only with the provisions given by Circe, that they will not be tempted no matter what. Sure enough he extracts the promise from them but of course the prophecy is now moving. Wind is opposite. There is no way they can go. They get straddled for WEEKS. Food is over. Odysseus sees the path is for destruction and yet...

HE TRIES AGAIN!

He goes to the island to pray! There MUST be another way! The gods can hear him...maybe pity him and release them from this! And yet he falls asleep from fatigue, stress and godly intervention. Now the clock is ticking! His men cannot withstand hunger anymore and slay the cattle. Now their fate is shielded. We now know they will die. We know also which part of the prophecy will be fulfulled; Odysseus will come home ALONE, just like we see him narrating alone (even if we might as well wonder whether Odysseus would remain in Scheria, it is pretty much settled that Odysseus returns to Ithaca). However Odysseus doesn't know...but what he fears the most has happened

One last desperate attempt.

Odysseus is human above all. He sees the slain animals, he KNOWS his men will die and even that time he REFUSES to accept it! He REFUSES to give up! He sets sail again, hoping to save them, to save them all (himself included) as they roam for 7 days in the sea

And doom strikes...

His men all perish, his ship is gone! Odysseus is left alone in the sea, fighting for 10 days to the brief of death. Right now Odysseus is no longer struggling to change fate...he is no longer struggling to save anyone but himself...he is struggling

...SO THAT AT LEAST THE FATE IN STORE FOR HIM IS HIS RETURN...

He now has suffered the ultimate loss. He needs to at least make it home! Even if that means without companions, even if that means to be home in misery...he just HAS TO GO HOME! He cannot just perish in the sea or be forever straddled outside Ithaca! And then Calypso happens. Odysseus is left in her isle for 7 years.

He now fears he will never see his home again

He cries every day on the beach. His rape every night is strong enough reason for him to do so but also the fact that he now FEARS that the first section of the prophecy is fullfilled; that he is never to see his home and friends and family again. That his fate was not to perish in the sea but to be forever held against his will away from his beloved home and family. And he is filled with despair. When he has lost all hope that he will ever roam about the sea again; with at least SOME HOPE that the second part of the curse would be fulfilled, he is ready to throw himself in the sea; give an end to his life since there is no point in hoping anymore. The worst scenario has happened for him. He has nothing else to expect...

And it is so...till Hermes brings the order to release him. Now Odysseus finds hope anew that he will return. And he struggles with all his might to survive! Even if he is days out in the sea in a small raft. Even when his raft is destroyed and he has to literally swim to Scheria. his mind goes "NO! I WILL NOT PERISH! I WILL GO HOME!" and sure enough he does and he does meet his friends again and he does find this misery at his home and yet now Odysseus can endure this misery, because he knows he managed to get home and he knows that he has left but ONE TASK according to Tiresias.

He tried to beat fate and he failed...but now he has hope...

So as you see, and forgive me for the long analysis, Odysseus is more human than anyone can imagine and always relatable character. Despite his flaws and mistakes one of the noblest mistakes he made was to think he could change fate and dedicate a large part of his trip trying to do just that; change the curse and save his companions which only ends up to a self-fulfilled prophecy but I doubt anyone can deny that we would all have done the same. I doubt any of us would just abandon all hope and sit tight waiting for the prophecy to be filled either way. He would all have tried to change such a grim outcome!

Because we are human. And so was Odysseus.

[katerinaaqu]

I created this Analysis on the part of the story in this post:

This part is so funny to me. Dude was asleep how did he know

[deathnguts]

Thinking about the AU where Diomedes takes care of Penelope while Odyseuss is gone and how he probably would have taken care of Telemachus too and taught him all the things his real father couldn’t so the boy wouldn’t grow up without guidance as a man. Thinking about a young Telemachus thinking of his father and not being able to match the story with a face for his whole life and then guilty beyond repair when that face starts to be Diomedes.

[haze-of-hyperfixations]

a concept. to consider. what if. what if there was a Remember Them reprise after the Thunder Saga. "We are not to let them die in vain" except he's the only one left so it's "I am not to let them die in vain." and there's no backing chorus of his men. because. they're all dead.

and the line takes on a whole new meaning now that he's the one who chose to let them die.

(not in vain. it can't have been in vain, it can't have been for nothing. i have to see her. i have to see her, because if i don't make it home, those men died for nothing. the ends always justify the means. i can justify anything as long as it ends with Penelope and Telemachus both in my arms again. but if it doesn't-

but it will. it will. it has to.)

and our- ... -and my comrades will not die in vain...

[backpackingspace]

Okay but do you think the people who were really close to odysseus during the Trojan war had a running bet for when odysseus claimed to have a vision from Athena if it was true or not? Because half the time he was just lying about that.

[dootznbootz]

Diomedes: Odysseus! I need your help! Nestor's in trouble! Odysseus:

(Book 8 of the Iliad)

[somereaderinblue]

Saw that post about the Vengence Saga and drew it-

ADSAKDBASKHGDJASHVBDXDKJSabdhjbsahxb?!#?!

@protagaster YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS MASTERPIECE RIGHT NOW!

[lyculuscaelus]

When someone asks you why you’re sobbing like an Odysseus inside a KFC restaurant, just tell them you’ve just listened to Love in Paradise from Epic the musical, Bones in the Ocean by the Longest Johns, Elysian Fields from Ulysses Dies at Dawn, in a row.

[fluffypotatey]

save me Ruthlessness from Epic the musical

[melodyartist-blog]

A fair trade.

What's your payment method:

-cash

-card

-the loyalty and devotion of your new born baby

Athena probably regrets choosing him as a pupil, just sometimes...maybe more times than we think

this is funnier when you know that Menelaus offered him the opportunity to stay with him in Sparta, so they would just hang out( I guess??? Just like two bros would) just because Odysseus was one of the few warrior he standed😭

I'm not gonna explain myself...

I'm just gonna say that there was a lot of wine in that Kylix and Menelaus got absolutely wasted (he probably doesn't even remember what happened)

[nikoisme]

actually the fact that odysseus knew he'd be gone for 20 years makes the gears in my brain turn. You kiss your son goodbye knowing you will miss every milestone of his. He will be a grown man and will not remember you. You will be a father only by title. Your wife will lay alone in your wedding bed, she will wake and see the side you've slept on is empty. You won't hold each other for a long, long time. Your parents may not even be there to welcome you back. You know you will return, but the war stretches on and on. Your comrades fall. Your ships are on fire. Your best warriors are nothing but ashes in an urn. But it's eventually over, you can go home. But still, there's more time left. First it's a storm. It's winding up in strange lands. It's hunger. It's temptation. Your men grow weary. You have twelve ships and then you have one and then it's only you on a single timber. You know you will return, but everything has gone so horribly wrong that you can't help but wonder if the fates fooled you. Everyone you know is either dead or are living again. You are the only one stuck in between. Neither dead or alive. You sit on a beach staring out to the sea from the moments the birds sing til the sun dips over the horizon. Every day is the same - you sit on the stones and weep, you trek the shores, during the night you're in her bed. Your skin is cracked and sunburnt, your beard long and tangled, your hair etched with more and more silver hairs. Your eyes are dull, sunken. Your bones ache when you walk, your breath is shorter. The sun rises and sets. The waves wash away your footprints. You are growing old but the island is the same. You are left behind. Your home will change and you won't change with it. In fact, everyone will change, but you will not recognize what's different. Some of the lines under your eyes will be the hauntings of war, while your wife's will be from the sleepless nights of buying you time. You flinch when you see each other. You expected to see someone else, and she expected to see no one at all. You could once hold your boy in your arms, but now it feels like he's the one holding you. The trees in your orchard have grown taller. Some of the houses in your kingdom are empty. The children that sat on your knees now have their own children on their own knees - or they lie dead, by your own hand. Who are you? Who is your son, your wife? You will get to know each other, you will change together eventually. But there will still be something off, like a brick not fitting quite right in the foundation. Off like a living man among the dead, someone who wasn't fated to die, but was supposed to die a long time ago. A dead man among the living. You will not belong, even though you are the father of your son, the husband of your wife, the son of your father, the king of your land. There will always be something missing, something aching.

And you are willing to let it all happen when you lift your baby son from the field, away from the plow.

[katerinaaqu]

I have a random headcannon (not sure if I will keep it) that Odysseus never ate another fish in his life

In Greece (not sure if it is the same in other places as well) we have this old tradition that if a family loses a sailor relative at the sea they never eat fish again because fish eat dead bodies that sink in the water so in a way they honor the dead by not eating fish because "fish have eaten their loved one"

So imagine if that was a thing in antiquity or simply Odysseus made a pledge with himself and never eats another fish in his life to honor all the fallen comrades that found tragic death in the sea (especially the last ship)

Sorry! Random headcannons again!

[padfoot-lupin77]

Odysseus: and what did we learn today, class?

Crew: ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves.

Odysseus: that’s right

Crew: You killed some of our comrades and you’re a danger to us too. So we must be ruthless and kill you to protect ourselves

Odysseus: no NOT like that WAIT no!!

[epicthemusicalstuff]

My Thoughts On The Vengeance Saga!

I’m Not Sorry For Loving You: I feel we pretty much had the full song before hand? So it’s not too much new? But the vocals were so pretty!! Definitely the most grounded song in the saga!

Dangerous: First of all- the little Full Speed Ahead? With the 600 men bit? That had me so emotional already- the fact that there was no response when he said ‘with one goal in mind’ and there was a silence where they normally would have said ‘make it back alive to our homeland’. THEN HERMES IS BACK! WITH THE WINIONS???? AND THEY HAVE THE BAG AGAIN FOR HIM??? I went crazy over that- did they get Aeolus’ help? Did the winions go rogue and since they liked Odysseus they trapped it themselves??? Anyways. RUTHLESSNESS MENTION.

Charybdis: I love the overall vibe of this song! Again- very much like the snippets we heard- but that doesn’t make it less awesome! (I will also say I loved durning the animatic when he started getting all blurred with his speed). HE SAW ITHACA AND IT WAS SO TOUCHING THEN HE DIDNT GET TO GET THERE YET!!!

Get In The Water: I LOVE THE OPENING INSTRUMENTAL PART. CHILLS. I was screaming- I still am screaming as I relisten to it! POLITES, EURYLOCHUS, AND ANYICLEA JUMPSCARE! One of the songs that I feel so much better about listening to this morning, with just the music and none of the chaos of last night or the stream.

Six Hundred Strike: Okay- lots of thoughts on this one folks- the Six Hundred Men being chanted part? Amazing- does that count as when I said the vocals of his crew would be back? HE WILL GET BACK TO HIS SON. AND HE WILL GET BACK TO HIS WIFE. He avenged his comrades!!!!

Speaking from a position of just listening to the song instead of the provided visuals- I visualize something different happening. Like in terms of the wind bag, I like the idea it is used to blow away the layers of Poseidons water shell- to leave just him in the middle. And then the 600 Strike bit- perhaps the ghosts of all his crew appear and each get their own strike at Poseidon, with Odysseus dealing the last one before Poseidon starts singing again?

YOU IDIOT got me. THE ODYSSEUS’ WENT ABSOLUTELY FERAL? STABBING POSEIDON??? LIKE WHAT? I WAS SCREAMING- the raw vocals were amazing too-

NEXT TO MY WIFE

[alibonbonn]

HELL UEAH YOU GET IT

Odyssey space AU where Odysseus is stuck in space alone, somehow.

[sunshines-child]

I’m rereading the odyssey n shit and Eurylochus was Odysseus’ BROTHER IN LAW. Not only was Eurylochus a comrade, a friend, he was Odysseus’ BROTHER. How could Odysseus come home to break it to his sister that she was now a widow? Because of HIM?