#no relationship in this show means as much to me as Daye and Nigar's

[malachitezmeyka]

Two years ago I said that the identical glances were proof these two were mother and daughter and I stand by that statement

Also, Daye!!!!

[1533-secrets-from-history]

@faintingheroine

I might remember incorrectly,so correct me if I am wrong,but it was said that she was in service for 6 years. That could be referring to six years of being Kalfa, which would mean she received rank in 1516,that would make sense as it would mean Mahidevran and Gulshah, were already there, Mustafa was born and their relationship would start at that time. It also explains how close Nigar, Daye and sumbul are, they could have served them back in Manisa. However, she would not receive rank as soon as she arrived, I can imagine her spending some time in harem as a potential concubine, where Daye noticed her for hard working and intelligent nature,bonded and she introduced her as harem kalfa. That would mean she was in harem as a regular concubine for some time.

Another question is when she was kidnapped. Considering she spent good enough time in her motherland to remember it, even learn russian from her grandmother and being still fluent after all those years, I would assume she was around Hurrem's age, when kidnapped. In the best case scenario, she would have been bought immediately and spent little to no time in the slave market,so to add this up: around 17 years of her time in motherland + several years as Çarye ( it should include time to get used to the new environment, learn Turkish and gain mutual trust and bond to high ranking servant, possibly Daye, with whom she has mother-daugther relationship) + 6 years of her time as kalfa and her age by the time of 1522 would be about 25+ in my opinion, making her birth date 1497 or possibly(even likely) earlier. That would mean she gave birth in late thirties/yearly forties(considering it was actually common in the Ottoman empire and even quite the average age of harem servants to marry and give birth), that would mean she married for the first time some time before and she would have been around 40 or bit above when she was set to marry again, which again would have been normal in ottoman empire, especially if it was urgent. So she could have been in her late 40's, early 50's, when she died. Gray marks are actually quite deceiving in the show, pre time skip Gulfem, Mahidevran, sah and Suleyman have no gray markings despite Mahidevran being 44-45, Gulfem a bit older and Sah and Suleyman even greater In age, while Hafsa had her own hair even in her sixties. Gray markings actually appeared only after timeskip, possibly to keep up with Hurrem, whose actress was changed,while others remained the same. Even Fidan hatun got gray markings despite being quite young compared to others, as she arrived in harem when Hurrem married suleyman, her friend Fatma was Mustafa's favourite, so she was somewhere close to their age, that would make her no more than 30 yeas after time skip and in late 30's, when she for gray markings. So, even if Nigar was in late 40's yearly 50's, she would not get Gray marks.

In the show, Hatice was married for six months before she widowed, if I remember correctly. Proper time for an ottoman princess to marry was 17 years, that is actually the age when Shah, Hurrem and Suleyman considered marrying Mihrimah off, so if that happened to Hatice, that would make her only 17-18 in 1520. I can imagine, Hafsa setting her marriage as soon as she reached the proper age, so she would not "fade away in sadness", in her mind that would have been right decision to make, so I would say she was not even 20 in 1520. I'd estimate her date of birth to be 1501 or more likely 1502.

Fatma could be younger than Hatice, as she represents herself as younger than Hurrem, so at any rate she would have been born after 1503, that would also explain why she mentions Hatice so much,but not other sisters, who were probably much older than her.

[minetteskvareninova]

Ranking of Kalfas and Aghas in MC/K? (You can rank Kalfas and Aghas together or separately, your decision)

Ahhh... Asking only the easiest of questions, are we? Very well... (Again, I should probably add some after the rewatch, I don't remember everyone, blah blah, you know the drill.)

KALFAS 1. Nigar - You must've known she would end up here the second you asked that question. Yes, the writers haven't been kind to her. But trough hell or high water, in good writing and bad, Nigar was never not the smartest person in the room. She maintained some of her spark almost to the very end. Press f in chat for the best girl. 2. Cennet - I am very biased towards characters with very strong personalities, which is why Fatma was the best sultana of blood in my eyes. And Cennet has one hell of a personality. Even when the writing of other characters revolved solely around their relationship to Kösem (Halime was her antagonist, so she became a moustache-twirling villain, etc.), she maintained hers to the very end. It was in fact so strong she was apparently was able to seduce pretty boys like half her age just trough it. A legend, I tell ya. 3. Daye - A solid third place for a solid lady. Nothing but respect for MY chief kalfa. 4. Afife - She's... Likeable. Also has that "tough but fair" thing going on that makes her different enough from Daye to make me mildly intrigued with her character. Not my favourite by any means, but pretty good. 5. Menekşe - Our goth sultana's preppy sidekick isn't, alas, very deep or interesting. But she's ride or die for Halime, and as someone who is also mostly ride or die for Halime, I can't not appreciate that. Besides, at least she has some consistent personality. That's not a given with these girls. 6. Gülşah - She had been in the show for so long and had such a strong, consistent presence that I can't help myself from becoming a little bit fond of her. She's a horrible person, but she would do anything for Mahi's pretty eyes, and can you blame her? Her fall from Mahidevran's good graces was actually kind of sad. That said, for all of my sympathies, she does undeniably suck. 7. Fahriye - In principle, she should be pretty fascinating, going from hating Hürrem for relatively understandable reasons to unconditional loyalty to her. Unfortunately, the show never allows us much insight into her thoughts and feelings, especially during her defection to Hürrem. She is just kinda stuck with her after the assassination attempt. Apparently, she develops some sympathies for Hürrem after hating her guts... Why? And after the defection, she doesn't seem to have much personality at all. What a waste. 8. Fidan - Similar problem, except where Fahriye was kinda interesting as a fighter and Mahidevran's top agent, Fidan is just... Some lady that does what Hürrem tells her, untill Ayşe Hafsa forces her to turn away from Hürrem. She then starts serving Mahidevran, in fact, she becomes her most loyal attendant... For some reason. Also, her friendship with Fatma seems to exist solely for Fatma to have someone to talk to. *yawn* 9. Dudu - If you sucked away everything that made Daye and Afife distinct, you would get Dudu. Even as a big fan of Kösem season 1 I have no opinion of her, which is saying something.

AGHAS 1. Sümbül - I mean, this is kind of a honorary position, isn't it? Sümbül wasn't always the kindest or funniest, and could at times be annoying. But much like Hürrem and Mahi, he stuck for the long haul, and for all of the moments good and bad, he deserves the first place. 2. Bülbül - How did this precious little cinnamon roll end up in the service of the most evil sultana of her era is still a mystery to me. Romantic love is the only explanation. Either way, a middle-aged man has no right to be this adorable. Your honor, I love him. 3. Gül - This was a very close race. He's a lot like Bülbül, but with a bit of a mean streak and the level of devotion that crosses over to asskissing. Still, he's pretty funny, and most of the time a nice person, except where his legendary rivalry with Sümbül is concerned. 4. Mercan - He's also close to the third and second place, and in many ways is hard to compare to the others. Which, I give him credit even just for the novelty; where most prominent eunuchs in the show are loud and effeminate, to suddenly have this silent gigachad stand next to fucking Sümbül... Well, he's nothing if not memorable. His stoic exterior hides a heart that beats for but one thing - his mistress... But I'd better stop before this turns into a fanfic. 5. Kiraz - I'll just say that if the writers needed a small annoying creature following Afife's every step, they could've just given her a dog. 6. Haci - He has two modes: asshole and Kösem's lackey. Needless to say, I don't like either of them. His rivalry with Bülbül is a pale shadow of Sümbül and Gül, mostly consisting of Haci being a dick for no reason and Bülbül being annoyed by it. Which, how dare he be mean to my precious Bülbül?!

[magnitoria]

Which arc that was given so much time and hype that disappointed you?

For me the Ibrahim and Nigar one. Aside from their toxic relationship, the amount of scenes were given to them in season 2 made it feel like the aftermath of their relationship would be lit. Specially since we got some hints on how severe the aftermath would be when they both were exposed to Valide sultan and she got in coma. Also after Ibrahim was fully exposed to Hatice , she said she’d divorce him and he looked like a kicked puppy then boom the season ends. The aftermath of their relationship being exposed is left to the 3rd season.3rd season started, waiting for the aftermath of the “disgraced” relationship, what happens? NOTHING, Nigar and Ibrahim continued to live and Hatice forgot about it and even trusted Nigar later.

The way tension about their relationship was built in season like Daye hatun fear and Valide sultan dying knowing what her son-in-law did made it seem like if the relationship got fully exposed the world will end. But gosh it was nothing. Added nothing to the show. This is one of the cases where the writers had a good plot in their pockets but screwed it up.

Man I envy that you actually initially enjoyed this plotline, I, just like many people, sat there in utter disbelief that they decided to go there, I genuinely wish I could be you. All that insanity and all it did is end with kissing cousins decades later in season 4. And Ibrahim and Hatice weren't even married. Damn.

There was only one ever period that I truly looked forward to which was the supposed culmination of season 3. I really enjoyed its aesthetics and the character roster, I thought Hurrem looked the best there, it had all my favorite characters, they've changed the lighting too so the series became less claustrophobic, I think in previous seasons the overall color palette was more brown-dominated. I stanned Sehzade Mehmet and since I only became interested in Ottoman history because it's partially so unapologetically barbaric, I just looked forward to this dude dying lmao. How he'd finally get appropriate screen time, how dramatic his death would be, the top notch grieving scenes we'd get from Meryem and Halit, maybe they'd play into one of the alleged "testimonies" that Suleyman sat by Mehmet's dead body for 3 days. A lot of bad times to look forward to I was excited! Then yea, we all know what happened there and ultimately, I don't care that the finale we got was so disastrous if it means that Meryem was finally able to break free ye know. So too bad for me that my hyped up moment wasn't even crushed by the writers scrambling to be on schedule, the reason for failure that I've got straight up obliterated the entire series. Wooo one up!

[mc-critical]

Who do you prefer between Daye Hatun and Afife Hatun and why? I am more keen on the development of Afife Hatun throughout the series, her bond with Suleyman, his sisters and, later, even Hurrem was different from that of Daye Hatun who seemed for attached to Hafsa. That's not to say I do not like Daye but Afife brought more nuance and her death was so sad and memorable, with the members of the dynasty at her side showing their respect.

I'm sorta on the fence on this one. Initially, I also preferred Afife Hatun to Daye by a big amount, especially because I didn't like S01 Daye then (as highlighted by this pretty outdated post), but now that Daye has grown on me quite a lot on rewatch, but I still love Afife as much as I used to... I can't decide. I would honestly say I like both equally currently - I appreciate what both had to offer for the show.

Afife and Daye are essentially different executions of the same concept. Both of their characters were centered on their loyalties and where they lied and their arcs were about the possible shifting of these loyalties for what they perceive as the right thing to do. And both were handled very well, I can't say which one is better than the other, they're just... different. I don't think one offered more nuance than the other, either, it's just that their nuances were present on different areas.

Daye's attachment was far more personal and while she had other warm relationships with SS and Nigar, the person she clearly loved the most was Valide. She was the only person Daye was so tremendously devoted to and she never fully got out of that loyalty: even in her turn arounds she was loyal to Valide deep down and only did these things to protect Valide from herself more than anything else. She considered the assassination attempt in the forest and the harem riot as going a step too far and while they were actions out of her usual comfort zone of pure obedience, they aren't really complete switching of gears. Stopping these things caused Daye to show her moral compass, but her first thought by doing that was always what was beneficial for Valide. For Daye, going against her own orders would be beneficial for Valide, if the consequences were about to become too grave, and if she didn't understand it then, one day she would. (that's why she understood when Valide gave the harem to Gülşah instead) That goes for Daye realizing that Hürrem was innocent in the whole Leo diary drama and Daye giving Hürrem a signal when Valide was going to interrogate her on it and SS was sectetly listening 4 episodes later as well. There would be no point for Valide to interrogate further an innocent person. It would only create needless conflict for Valide herself first and foremost. The only time where Daye seemingly broke that loyalty was not telling anyone earlier about the Nigar affair, the final nail of the coffin of Daye's development. Her cutting ties with everything that related her with the harem, along with the death of her most beloved person, showing perhaps her true and final stepping out of loyalty ended Daye's arc in a more personal and heartwrenching manner. The moment she actually stepped out of her loyalty, she couldn't rest and it's what broke her forever. It's unfortunate that she ended this way and it may look like some contrived suicide, because "Yılmaz Şahin's preferred way of killing secondary women characters (тм)", and that's there, of course, but it still was a suitable end the writing was building up to. What I would have wanted more of Daye that was present in Afife's character, is perhaps more scenes with other characters that weren't Valide and Hürrem. We got a plenty, but they were never enough, especially given the reveal of Daye's warmer core. I know her soft side is set as more of a contrast to her tough exterior, but it would have been nice, especially in S01. While I love S01 Daye more now, sometimes her tough exterior was all she was and while that worked, it didn't exactly endear me to her character.

Afife, on the other hand, didn't prioritize personal attachments, as seen the most by her first appearances. Afife was never as loyal to anyone or anything; definetly not to such a personal degree as Daye - the law and tradition in the harem are more where her loyalties lied. She was led to believe that there was chaos and unrest in the harem because of Hürrem, which is the reason she acted against her through Firuze, she is as rash as she can be because of law and tradition and she doesn't tolerate acting against law and tradition, no matter who dares to do it. But what's more powerful than her devotion to tradition is not really loyalty, but love: seeing Hürrem be loyal to, but by extension, love SS in ways she never imagined, brought her to see her in a better light. But just like Daye, that's as far as it goes. She gained some warmer attachment towards her, mostly because she means so much to SS, but loyalty to her was also loyalty to the dynasty. She never picked a particular side in her entire run as a character: as you said, she respected everyone, as per their positions in the hierarchy and tradition required. Her loyalty to tradition never ever wavered, not even as an end to her arc and that also showed in respecting everyone so much. Even her sacrifice for Hürrem she would be able to do for everyone, I believe, even though Hürrem was her most fleshed-out relationship. (that doesn't lower the impact of her death, of course.) She was the link of the dynasty, the one everyone could turn to if they wanted something, so we had Afife's softer, more personal nature go more along with her strict loyalty to tradition. What upsets me about her, though, is that after a while it felt like they didn't have all that much to do with her left, aside from everyone giving her orders, her standing there bowing down or talking respectfully to everyone and detecting trouble in the castle. She especially didn't have much to do in the already fully packed S04, so her death screamed more inevitability and "cleaning up around in order to begin focusing on the more intense conflicts of the season". It was still pretty moving and logical for her and it was sad to see her go, but I wish she got more of an arc and material to work with in the series, because she was great. (something that Daye had in spades in S02B, but then again, that was more of a character deconstruction and you can't really have that with Afife when the full picture becomes clear.) More interaction between her and everyone she respected so much would be welcome. I lowkey wanted for her and Ebusuud Efendi to have a plot-line together in S03B, but I don't know how it's gonna happen and that's my silly headcanons more than anything. 😅

So yeah, I love them all the same, I really do, both enriched the show in remarkable ways and it was awesome having them.

[minetteskvareninova]

Mustafa and Hürrem is a weird ship, because like. They knew each other since he was a kid. And I mean, I am sucker for “arranged marriage to an older man, fell for the stepson instead” dynamic, mainly for the freudian vibes of the “displacing father” archetype... But the age difference just makes this not work very well for Mustafa x Hürrem, unless you make the situation way too fucked up for my liking (and I mean, it’s a bit fucked up either way, but I do draw the line at the hints of child grooming; the stepson is ideally around the same age as the stepmom, or at least closer in age to her as the stepfather). It’s not even a funny crackship! I don’t really have a favourite Mustafa pairing, most of his relationships are kinda bland and forgettable, because Mustafa just does not have that much personality to play off of his love interests. I was kinda disappointed that his relationship with Fatma didn’t evolve into love, because like. Imagine if Fatma’s “innocent little flower” ploy worked, and Mustafa would fall for her, only to slowly realize that she’s a murderous psychopath. But no, Mustafa has to ruin our party by only falling for perfectly well-adjusted women. *sigh*

I do agree that while Hürrem is not a great person, Ibrahim still doesn’t deserve her. Plus “fell for the best friend’s girl” is a much more boring dynamic than “fell for best friend” (especially if said best friend is canonically straight and extremely toxic for everyone but his friend - and that goes for both Ibrahim x Süleyman). So yeah, Ibrahim x Süleyman for the win. Or, here’s the thought - Ibrahim x Mahidevran! At the very least, he seems to like her much better than Süleyman does, plus Mustafa looks much more like him than like Süleyman, lending itself to VERY wild interpretation of cannon, especially if you are also Ibrahim x Süleyman shipper.

I don’t think Hürrem is very shippable with any women in the show, with the exception of Gülnihal (toxic, but still long-lasting relationship) and maybe Nigar? Normally, I love “pair the suitors” kind of ships, but I don’t know, Mahidevran x Hürrem just doesn’t do it for me. Probably because I am way more emotionally attached to Mahidevran x Ibrahim.

Sümbül and Gül enemies to lovers... Hm... *scribbles into her “when I finally get to write MC fanfiction” notebook*

And you know my thoughts on Nurlim - garbage apart, absolutely iconic together.

I too rooted for Mihrimah x Pedro, because if she ran away with him, then she wouldn’t be in the show anymore.

Daye x Hafsa for the win! Their breakup and Daye’s inability to handle it all was one of the greatest tragedies in the show, hands down, and I am including Bayezit’s and Cihangir’s deaths, as well as the writing for Isabela Fortuna.

Hürrem x Leo is... Well, it’s much better than Hürrem x Süleyman in theory, by virtue of not being toxic, but in execution would no doubt be a disaster for both of them (I mean, look how the mere suggestion of it worked out in canon), unless you are into, like, modern AUs or something. Which, nice guy and his human disaster girlfriend is a pretty good pairing on its own, too good in fact to get bogged down in forbidden love bullshit.

Matrakçi x Nigar, arranged marriage to lovers, other man drama, angst with a happy ending. I take no objections.

Im a Wattpad reader and since watching magnificent century ive been reading a lot of fanfiction about the show.There is a couple of ships like Mustafa x Hurrem, Hurrem x Ibrahim and others,what do you think about them.And do you have any favorite ships ir couples from the show?And why do You like them

I'd never really thought about Mustafa x Hürrem. I don't have any feelings about it as a pairing. But it doesn't surprise me that it exists since they're two of the most popular characters in the series. My main ship for Mustafa has to be him and Helena though. She was a lot of fun as a character and the one who was the least blinded by the fact that he was a prince.

I know it's popular, but Hürrem x Ibrahim is something of a NOTP for me. Both because Ibrahim was a major source of trauma for Hürrem (e.g. the Leo incident) and also because his relationships with everyone around him, especially his romantic ones, are always so toxic. I might ship him with Süleyman (because they deserve each other), if I liked either of them enough as characters. But I don’t.

Early on I lowkey shipped Hürrem x Hatice, but it soon got overtaken by Hürrem x Mahidevran to be To be honest, the appeal of Hürrem x Mahidevran is both in the tension of their rivalry and because they both deserve better than Süleyman.

I also love SümGül Ağa as a crackship because their rivalry is the best thing and I think it’s funny.

My main Mehmet ship was Mehmet x Cihan. Simply because even in spite of the lack of screentime, they were adorable.

I ship Selim and Nurbanu because over time they develop into a pairing who are a lot more on the same page than the other ones. And for the most part they supported each other. Also the show unfairly demonises the both of them, and they're more worthy than how they get framed.

Bayezid and Defne were tragic but sweet. I have to admit that after the attempted poisoning, I was rooting for them to reconcile and properly get together.

I also rooted for Mihrimah x Pedro because she she should have been able to make her own decisions and not to have to be confined by an arranged marriage that she hadn't even wanted in the first place.

I also liked Daye x Hafsa, Hürrem x Leo and Matrakçı x Viktoria. Also I don't have any main Nigar ships, but I do like to headcanon her as wlw. Also I am a lesbian Aybige believer.