#no disagreement on that here

[wellofdean]

the trap anon here! i wanna second your post about enjoying sharing different thoughts about things. i really appreciate some of the more positive posts i’ve seen about the trap, like yours, reframing it to emphasize the beauty of love, compassion, and forgiveness. i do really like that.

unfortunately i’ve come to the realization that my issue with the trap feels bigger cause it relates to one of my issues with s15 overall—there’s just not enough time. thinking it through more, i’m not so much bitter about what dean says (in some part thanks to all the positive takes i’ve seen :)), but it still feels incomplete. like it goes back to the fact that yeah they don’t ever get that time to decompress. i def agree that they couldn’t get into it all then, with everything still going on and on and on. and yeah i guess ‘calmly’ was the wrong word haha, but i do think, if they had that chance, dean would be able to be a little more clear about his needs. but he never gets the chance. or rather, dean and cas don’t get to have a bigger conversation without all the weight of the world on their shoulders—they’re not allowed to by the time constraints of the season, and it seems like dean gets the short end of the stick, even with cas’s confession (cause then cas is gone 🥺), and it’s not so much the in-world or watsonian explanation but the doylist effects that disappoint me … and idk i guess this is one of those situations where i’m just not satisfied by assuming that they talked more off-screen, if that makes sense.

ahh anyway, sorry for rambling even more in your asks! i hope this isn’t weird, or like responding too much, and ofc, no pressure to respond back. but i am enjoying talking about this topic so cordially :)

First, let me say that yes! Cordial discussion! I think there is a climate of being...I dunno, afraid to disagree. I wonder if it felt like a vague-post call-out, that I made my own post and referenced things on my dash without naming any names or reblogging something, but I did that so as not to muck up anyone's notes and to not argue directly with anyone. If that was wrong, mea culpa everyone! I really just love you all for being here, four years later, still obsessed with my TV boyfriends. If not for you I would be all alone in this, losing my damn mind. And like, this is a TV show we are talking about! It's totally fine to disagree, or to feel like what you're seeing in it is more important for you! Thanks for these asks, and for being willing to discuss.

I will say that I am, generally speaking, less interested in Doylist commentary. My background is in literary theory, and even there, I am more interested in closely reading what's on the page than I am in a writer's biography or intention. I am more interested in the story they actually told than anything else. That said, I think there are genuine and in fact catastrophic Doylist issues with the end of SPN. If we are generous? COVID. If we suspect foul play? The Network PTB. For me, the ones least to blame are the writers and the actors, because what's on the screen makes it pretty clear what story they wanted to tell.

My argument about The Trap is just this: it's a beautiful scene, and Dean said things he needed to say, not because of any culpability he bears, but for the health of his own heart. It's in-character, beautifully acted, and the things he says sound right in Dean's voice. Jensen, keeper of Dean, clearly believed in it. I like the writing in that episode a lot. I think that scene is really moving, and that expecting it to be the thing that fixes them is putting too much weight on it. What I see in it is Dean unburdening his heart and needing to not let himself dwell on grievances because time is short, and love is more important, and he LOVES that angel. I love that. I love DEAN for that. It would have ruined the scene if he was saying "I'm sorry it took me until now to say it...but, Cas, man...you gotta..." Dean doesn't even know if Cas is ALIVE in that scene. He is making a desperate, last ditch effort to get himself right and tell Cas he loves him; that he forgave him a long time ago. It has to be pure grace. They were right to write it that way, imho. And then Cas doesn't let him say more, and it's because he is afraid to let himself be happy.

Can an argument be made that Cas should have told Dean about his deal with the empty? Sure! Could they have done a million other things than the things they did? INFINITELY! So, to your other point about there not being enough time in the end of SPN? and their not doing enough to let Dean say his piece, I mean... I agree? I would have preferred it if SPN never ended? Like, please let it continue literally forever? Please show me every single minute of Dean's life? I love him so, so much and I never want to live without him? Of course I wanted them to finally communicate directly about their relationship! And, make out! And then go to bed in Dean's sweet, gun be-decked room! And then have Sam burst into their room for some reason, and find them sleepily spooning (Dean's the little spoon! He deserves it!) and obviously naked! And they spring apart and Sams says "Oh, so...this is happening?" and Dean says "AND HOW!" with a big, shit-eating grin he can't suppress... Like... yes! ALL THAT. PLEASE AND THANK YOU! I will confess, though, that I don't think healthy relationship/therapy-type talks about their feelings appeal to me in the context of these characters or this story, but otherwise? Yes! I wanted it resolved.

And, Anon, I most fervently agree with you that Dean gets the short end of the stick. Like, quite literally, where, like, the stick is a piece of fucking rebar and I make no secret of the fact that the end of Supernatural, especially the last episode, is the biggest narrative shit sandwich I have ever been served and somehow choked down in all my life. It's fucking MALPRACTICE, and seriously, after Cas's beautiful goodbye, it would really have taken VERY LITTLE to satisfy me. They could have just had Cas be there in Dean's heaven, and have Dean look at him with those fucking big, wet eyes of his and hug him tight, and I would have been like...ok. I can live with that! But they did not do that. They sent my baby Dean to boring drive heaven and made him meet Sam on a bridge. I mean...fuck that. I am ready with my pitchfork!

Just...The Trap was still beautiful. It was a shining moment. Dean had never looked prettier. What he said was important FOR HIM. The forest sucked in the end, but that was a fucking beautiful tree. That's really all I'm saying.

[sunshines-child]

one thing I’ve realized is that the modern day has seriously screwed with the perception of Hades and Persephone. The whole myth was created to talk about a mother’s grief, most likely written to console mothers who had to give their daughters away for marriage. But the modern day has now made it a cutesy emo misunderstood guy x rebellious girl fighting against her strict mother, villainizing Demeter. And because this is all it’s known now, the moment someone brings up the original myth, they immediately get quieted or insulted.

[wardingshout]

Family for day 6 of SpeSilverWeek! Edition uuh found biological and crime I guess...

[kindaorangey]

"are you asking me or making me?" is soooooo interesting to me because i think armand only asks it when he can't gauge whether he's letting louis down. it's barely even sexual - it's a hail mary. it's a show of trust, indirectly admitting that he wants to do something other than what louis expects of him, but that he's willing to obey louis anyway, for the sake of their relationship. it's sort of heartbreaking watching them at the sacré-cœur, because if louis had said "i'm making you" armand would've done it in a heartbeat. he would've taken it as a show of committment on louis' part, and he wouldn't have betrayed him. but louis takes the question just as an expression of disagreement, and so he doesn't play the game. ironically, he respects armand's independence too much to make him turn madeleine if he doesn't want to. and so armand isn't convinced of louis' commitment to him, and he betrays him.

and by the time we see them in san fransisco, louis knows what the question means now, and answers "no, arun, i'm not asking" without question. and armand accepts it without complaint, even as it pains him. companionship really is the most important thing in the world to armand, just like it is for lestat, and he's willing to do any number of horrible things to louis and himself just to keep him as a companion, just like lestat. louis' biggest mistake is not realising how to use that to his advantage sooner.

[gomzdrawfr]

OC doodle with the 141 - tw: alcohol, small mention of death

Honest Feelings

[il-predestinato]

Yes, Max... yes, you are. 😵‍💫😭😠

@F1: A-Z Race Winners Challenge! | Grill The Grid 2023

[antianakin]

Broke: Only fucked-up relationships are interesting in stories! Healthy couples are BORING!

Woke: CONFLICT is what's interesting in a narrative and often conflict IN A RELATIONSHIP is what can make a story out of that relationship, but this does not have to mean that the relationship itself is unhealthy or "fucked up" as a result. Conflict can come from anywhere, whether it's inside the relationship or something the people involved are facing outside of the relationship that impacts their dynamic. Healthy couples are not inherently boring any more than toxic/fucked-up couples are inherently interesting. The quality of the story and the way the writing weaves the conflict and the relationship together is what creates a compelling narrative. Simplifying it down to "only fucked-up relationships can be compelling in a narrative" is just unhelpful and untrue.

[incesthemes]

i realize how demented this sounds but hear me out okay.

when sam first sees the "angel" in houses of the holy, dean offers him a drink from his flask—sam refuses. at the end of the episode when sam's faith has been crushed by the disappointing reality, dean offers his flask again, and sam accepts it this time.

the difference between these two scenes lies in sam's faith: in the first sequence, sam is filled with a religious fervor and a hope for his own redemption. in the second, he's crippled and lost and hopeless. there's a few interpretations of this which i think all kind of overlap and influence each other.

first and foremost, the most literal, baseline interpretation of this is probably that sam is interpreting dean's gesture (somewhat accurately) as being dismissive of his experience in the first sequence, but as compassionate in the second. there is a marked difference in how dean offers the flask to sam each time, and dean too has undergone a change throughout the episode to influence his understanding of god and faith.

but these scenes can also have interesting symbolic meaning, too. this is alcohol that dean is offering. it's a substance from which abstinence is associated with moral purity—the prohibition movement was led by protestants seeking to eliminate corruption and violence from the world, and it was framed as a battle for morality. therefore, temperance is seen as good, pure, and righteous. when sam is consumed by his faith, he abstains. when he loses his faith, he imbibes.

and through that moral lens, there's another interesting interpretation that can be found. the flask belongs to dean, and he is seen drinking from it. when sam drinks from it, too, they're literally swapping spit. metaphorically, drinking from the same flask can be seen as a kiss, and this isn't the only time this metaphor is used, either. in sex and violence, nick drinks from dean's flask, then lets dean drink from it again—and this sharing of saliva is what puts dean under his siren's spell.

in sex and violence, sharing a flask is depicted as an explicitly sexual act, a stand-in for a kiss. nick is dean's sexual fantasy, the ideal little brother, and he snags dean through an indirect kiss.

so if sharing a flask is a sexual act, then it can apply here: abstaining from alcohol is morally righteous and good, and imbibing is morally tarnished. sam, in his ecstasy, wants to be good—he thinks he's been chosen for redemption, after all. he wants to live up to the potential that the "angel" sees in him. he refuses the drink, and only when he's lost his faith does he accept it.

but it's dean's flask. accepting the drink would also be a sexual thing—he would be kissing his brother. it would be an act of incest, something impure and unholy and sinful. he wants to be good, so he rejects not just the drink but dean himself, because to engage with him would be a sin. this rejection is embedded within a plot which drives sam and dean apart, their religious philosophies at war. they drift further apart with each clash of theologies, and they both reject each other's perspectives in their loyalty to their own.

it's only after he loses his faith that he stops trying to be good, that he accepts the drink, that he takes dean back into himself. he kisses his brother when he returns to him, and it's after this reuniting kiss that they're able to come together again and find compromise and concession, their respective ideologies shifting toward each other's until they've found equilibrium again. through the flask, they literally kiss and make up, and their codependency is secured through that kiss.

[johaerys-writes]

ik this is so random buttt if all of your patrochilles AUs were in the same room what do you think would happen; like would they beef orrr ???

Omgggg I love this ask 😭🙏 this was so fun to think about, so let's see. If all my patrochilles AUs were in the same room...

Achilles:

Disasters & BBB!Achilles would absolutely be FLOORED by Twin Flames, Nameless and Fates!Patroclus 😳 those pecs, those arms, that back..... like "Whoa... C-can you bench-press me pls... pretty pls 😳🥵"

Disasters!Achilles would THROW DOWN with BBB!Achilles for treating Patroclus and also Dei the way he has 🤬 teach him some respect!!!!

BBB!Achilles would totally make out with every version of himself for shits and giggles

Disasters!Achilles would be incredibly intrigued by Fates!Achilles (a super strong, super fast demigod version of himself?? Sign him up👀) and would also chat with Twin Flames!Achilles about dresses and passing as a girl LOL

Any version of Achilles would climb Fates!Patroclus like a tree honestly LMAO that alpha is just too powerful 😩👌 and Fates!Achilles would get super territorial and bite them all

Patroclus

Disasters!Patroclus would absolutely throw down with both BBB and Twin Flames!Patroclus for not following Achilles wherever he is!!!!! Like what do you MEAN you're too depressed to love him right, get your shit together bro!!

Disasters and Twin Flames!Pat would have big beef with BBB but also Fates!Patroclus for treating Achilles with anything less than complete devotion, respect and adoration. Twin Flames Pat especially might challenge all of them to a duel at dawn lmao

I think BBB!Patroclus would cry upon meeting Disasters!Patroclus and realising how things could have worked out between him and Achilles, and how they didn't need to completely trash their relationship for years 🥲 maybe that would be the wake up call he needs

Despite all that, every version of Patroclus in a room full of Achilleses would think he's in heaven or something LOL

[on-a-lucky-tide]

Price is the kind of mischievous little shit that would look up the Russian word for "daddy"- папочка (papochka) - and moan it while Nik is going to town just to see his reaction.

[luck-of-the-drawings]

!!! FLASHING LIGHTS WARNING!!! [IM NOT FUCKIN AROUND!!]

REACHED THE CUSP OF 'THIS MAY NEVER BE ABSOLUTELY FINISHED N IF I DONT SHOW IT NOW, IT WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY.' SO HERE, A PROJECT IVE BEEN ORBITING AROUND UHH SINCE 2021 OR SO.

[palespawn]

know that if you're gonna be friends or more with astarion he will always support your rights and (especially) wrongs, yes he will tell you when you're being stupid, point out when you've made a mistake, when you're overdoing it, when he disagrees with your decisions etc., but on the flipside, he will always praise you, compliment you and encourage you to be you, whatever that looks like, he's so ride or die actually

[ianthe-is-a-bitch-and-i-love-her]

More often than is comfortable I'll see a fandom post that's postured like OP is prepared to be mobbed with disagreement and harassment for their opinion, but then the actual meat of their post is a very straightforward, surface-level analysis of how an event or action in the plot supports a core theme of the story; or, even worse, it's just a literal assertion that a thing that happened in the text... happened in the text.

The sub fandoms and social circles whose existence these posts imply fill me with foreboding.

[lmchaptertitlebracket]

I.vii.5 Batons Dans Les Roues

Clogs in the Wheels: Wilbour, Walton

Obstacles: Wraxall

Hindrances: Hapgood

Spokes in the Wheel: Denny, Donougher

Sticks in the Spokes: FMA

A Spoke in the Wheels: Rose

[snekdood]

anon... find someone else to harass lmao

[vimbry]