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homestucksimplified · 1 year

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The Sburb Aspects.

Sburb, the game that the human Homestuck characters play, has the objective of “creating a new universe to live in”, and it brings the end of the current one. Sburb is full of complex and interesting mechanisms, and one of its most interesting feature is the titles of power given to the players. Those are the Aspects.

A person’s Aspect is understood to represent what their goals and actions in life are caused by. Characters in the story and readers who are holders of Aspects guide a life ruled by what the main idea of their Aspects is.

The Sburb Aspects are Time, Breath, Doom, Blood, Heart, Space, Mind, Light, Void, Rage, Hope, and Life. All Aspects are present in the comic, but some are more represented than others, due to certain characters not appearing as much. The two Aspects with the most canon players are Time (Dave, Aradia, Damara, and Caliborn) and Space (Jade, Kanaya, Porrim, and Calliope).

Together with the Aspect, there will be a Class. A person’s Class is understood to represent the way they deal with their Aspect. You can only know your Class after you find out what your Aspect is, since each one changes greatly with the switch of Aspect. We are not going to discuss Classes in this particular post, but by the time you see this I’ll probably already have a post on each of them within each Aspect (search for the tag #classes).

Below is my speculation on how each Sburb Aspect is to each player.

1st Aspect: Time

Time is the Aspect of music, of death, of rebellion, of not accepting what comes in the way that it comes. Time is an Aspect that caused much suffering in the comic, but it is also the savior-Aspect. Time Players seem to “go against the clock”, they are usually either terrified of death or completely alright with the idea of it. They work in melodious ways, are impatient, and enjoy the destination more than the journey itself. They are hardly stable, extremely dedicated and stubborn. Time Players are fighters, sometimes even in a literal way. They also tend to be revolutionary, depending on the Class. They can be related to music, since the ticking of the clock is a reference to melody and heartbeat.

In more miscellaneous descriptions, Time Players can be enjoyers of History. Since Aspects can be literal sometimes, many Time Players struggle with the concept of Time, are bad at keeping track of time, feel like they don’t have time to do all that they want to do, like they have to catch up. Time is the opposite Aspect to “Space”, which is patient and conforming. Time is an Aspect of change.

(Time used to be considered a Derse-only Aspect, since its description is really similar to that of Derse Dreamers. Since the publication of The Extended Zodiac, that was proven to be untrue. Arist, Taurist, Gemrist, Canrist, Lerist, Virist, Librist, Scorist, Sagirist, Caprist, Aquarist and Pirists are all Time + Prospit Extended Signs).

Known Time Players are Dave Strider, Aradia Megido, Damara Megido, Caliborn, and Toby Fox.

2nd Aspect: Breath

Breath is the Aspect of freedom and flexibility, of the element of air, of going with the flow, movement. Breath Players tend to be more detached from reality, and most of them are in search for the liberty that they crave. They’re usually very positive-minded, or are just unaware of the stress they are holding. A character who reminds me of this Breath characteristic is Mr. Peanutbutter from Bojack Horseman. Breath Players’ main theme in their journey will be freedom, and often times they will be leaders or have to deal with leadership.

Breath has that “protagonist” vibe at the same time that it has the “ignored side character” one. John and Tavros holding that Aspect makes that even more true. It is a very unpredictable Aspect, and I believe the players are as well. The bad side of Breath might come from detachment from important things, from people and situations. The players might also be absent-minded, gullible, and sometimes avoidant.

Breath is the opposite Aspect to “Blood”, which shares its leadership characteristics but is about the opposite of freedom.

Known Breath Players are John Egbert, Tavros Nitram, and Rufioh Nitram.

3rd Aspect: Doom

Doom is the Aspect of inevitability, destiny, fate, conformity… Doom Players are known to be good listeners, people who understand and will empathize, even if they don’t know how to fix many issues. They seem to be okay with fate, with the way things work, with both contentment and pain. Doom Player Sollux knew that he was going to die, and he accepted it knowing nothing could be done about it. Doom can be heavily emotional.

Doom is a poetic Aspect, and it’s extremely interesting, although rarely depicted in the comic. A Doom Player’s struggle might be about acceptance, a doubt about how it all is supposed to work. It is realistic and skeptical, not always pessimistic instead. Doom can be stability, having an outlook on life that is healing in their own way. I have heard from a Doom Player that “the Life-Doom Aspect pair is the facet of a person that deals with healing. While Life heals through change and improvement, Doom heals through acceptance and adjustment”. This difference is sometimes described as “the vent friend” (Doom) and “the advice friend” (Life). Life is the opposite Aspect to Doom, and it is serving and helpful.

Known Doom Players are Sollux Captor and Mituna Captor.

4th Aspect: Blood

Blood is the Aspect of bonds, relations, friendship or relationship or hatred, anything that holds the idea of people connecting and interacting. Blood Players usually strive for community, craving the unity of people, thriving on groups of friends, families, rioters getting ready to protest, anything that ties the bloods together. They can have a hard time adjusting to freedom, preferring the value of the attachments in their life. Their view of the world is very interesting, mostly focused on the association between people, even the disharmonic ones.

Blood can be literal, in the sense of a Blood Player’s path having to do with their care or lack of care for a sibling or parent, but it can also be about friends or lovers. They can attempt to form unity whenever they can, that might be their way of dealing with the world. They have a thought that “everyone has the same blood”. Blood is the opposite Aspect to “Breath”, which is focused on freedom and detachment.

Known Blood Players are Karkat Vantas and Kankri Vantas.

5th Aspect: Heart

Heart is the Aspect of the soul, the self, of passion and impulse. Heart Players are described to be obsessed with their own identity, in both the good and bad sense (like every Aspect, it has both sides). They are doomed to struggle with their sense of self, to be focused on the improvement of their own paths. Heart Players know themselves in more intrinsic ways than most people are used to knowing themselves. They are masters of self-analysis, and to quote a Homestuck character, “drowning in [their] own dismal persona”, they “can’t escape from themselves”.

In more literal ways, Heart can have to do with relationships and the idea of love. Many Heart Players seem to have a connection with or a struggle with romantic love, though this is much more a theory. All the Homestuck characters with the Heart Aspect got their hearts broken at one point and were very interested in romance. Many Classes make a Heart Player a great helper to others, since they understand how self-improvement should work and may want to advise others on it. They may know others more than others know themselves too. Heart’s opposite Aspect is “Mind”, of course, which is more focused on rationality and justice.

Known Heart Players are Dirk Strider, Nepeta Leijon, and Meulin Leijon.

6th Aspect: Space

Space is the Aspect of creation, the big picture, the capacity to accept things as they come, adapting to them. Space Players tend to favor the journey over the destination, enjoying the time they spend creating something much more than the end result of it. It is the opposite Aspect to “Time”, which is all about rebellion and, well, time. Space seems to be the most important Aspect in all of Sburb, and a session is impossible without the Space Player, who usually accepts pretty easily what their path is meant to be. They don’t see the point in fighting against what is inevitable, so they pick their fights carefully, prefer to make something out of what they already have.

Space Players can be lonely. But Space is usually patient, and it is big, so big. It is everything, after all. It’s not a coincidence that the creator of Homestuck, the creator of all of this that I’m writing about, is a Space Player. Space gathers everything, and everything is in Space.

(Space used to be considered a Prospit-only Aspect, since its description is really similar to that of Prospit Dreamers. Since the publication of The Extended Zodiac, that was proven to be untrue. Arga, Taurga, Gemga, Canga, Lega, Virga, Liga, Scorga, Sagiga, Capriga, Aquaga and Piga are all Space + Derse Extended Signs).

Known Space Players are Jade Harley, Kanaya Maryam, Porrim Maryam, Calliope, and Andrew Hussie.

7th Aspect: Mind

Mind is the Aspect of reason, justice, logic and decision. Mind Players usually have a very black-and-white view of the world, deciding between choices by considering which path is the most fair. Their journey has to do with rationality, and most times they value facts rather than feelings. A Mind Player who’s driven by emotions might have a more rebellious Class. Mind Players are good at figuring out what choices will be better in a situation, defying the idea that libras are indecisive (The libras in Homestuck are Mind Players). I would say they have a very corrective view of the world, always seeing solution to whatever problems might exist around them, in their own way.

Mind seems to be connected to justice, and not only because of the libra thing. Being the Aspect of decisions, it refers to making choices that will be better for everyone. Mind Player Terezi Pyrope went against her best friend’s plans because she could see that they wouldn’t be fair to anyone but herself. Getting more answers than you have questions is a good way to describe the Aspect. Seeing the patterns of the world, seeing through lies.

Mind’s opposite Aspect is “Heart”, which is the Aspect of the soul and emotional world.

Known Mind Players are Terezi Pyrope and Latula Pyrope.

8th Aspect: Light

Light is the Aspect of knowledge, luck, and literal light too. It is about inviting light into a situation, usually about seeking knowledge and sometimes being obsessed with the answers to everything. Light Players can be scholars, focused on learning the most they can about what they’re interested in, or Light might come up in different ways, not academic or literally.

Light Players seek to find the reasons for what things are what they are. They are great at researching, and this can be abstract or not. They probably had curious childhoods, wanting to search for the meaning of life from a very young age, and still not letting go. They also are not very worried about rules, and like bending them to their own likes. They follow rules that they want to follow and ignore those they find useless.

This Aspect is linked to luck too, and its Players tend to believe in such. Their Classes will also dictate whether they believe they have that luck or not. Light Players don’t have to necessarily be wise; just like other Aspects a Player may show only some aspects of it. But they will always be looking for wisdom. In their own way.

Light can have to do with relevance, with awareness, and like in the comic, with sight in a way. A canon Thief of Light blinded another person, and a canon Sylph of Light fixed their eyesight. Also, Light’s opposite Aspect is “Void”, which is obviously about mystery and emptiness.

Known Light Players are Rose Lalonde, Vriska Serket, and Aranea Serket.

9th Aspect: Void

Void is the Aspect of many things, though Void Players usually describe it as the Aspect of “nothing”. It is, indeed, the Aspect of nothingness. Void is about absence and emptiness, but also potential and mystery. Void doesn’t seek knowledge, and is more interested in what is not there and can be created. Void Players would be interested in mystery, would definitely be more interested in the rising of the sun if they didn’t know how that phenomenon worked. Void’s opposite Aspect is “Light”, which is about curiosity and brightness.

Depending on the Class, Void Players may have issues with their own incompleteness, believing themselves to be empty of feeling or anything at all, irrelevant. Healthy Void Players have learned to thrive in the darkness and to understand how their potential works better in the shadows. Unhealthy Void Players may try to overcompensate by mirroring Light, pretending they are full of what they are really not. If Light is the sun, Void is the ocean, vast and full of enigmas. It is quite literally the Aspect of water in a way, and its Players may have a strong connection to it, one way or another.

Void is more a concept, an idea. It is subtle. It is where light doesn’t reach. It is starting from nothing. It is obscure. Maybe it is lack of luck, depending on the Class. Void is vague, while Light makes itself very obvious. Void is full of riddles.

Known Void Players are Roxy Lalonde, Equius Zahhak, and Horuss Zahhak, interestingly all True Sagittariuses.

10th Aspect: Rage

Rage is the Aspect of truth, doubt, and, well, rage. Rage Players cast doubt in what they dislike more than they believe what they do like. They may be negative and literally driven by fury, though that will depend on their Class. Rage values the truth over anything else, and they might search for it everywhere. It can be irrational, as most rage is. It can be chaotic in both the bad and good ways.

Rage’s opposite Aspect is “Hope”, which is like in the name, focused on belief and trust. This highlights the Rage Player’s skepticism and less naive mentality, and their complicated relationships with religion.

Known Rage Players are Gamzee Makara and Kurloz Makara.

11th Aspect: Hope

Hope is the Aspect of belief, literal hope. Hope Players have and want to have trust in a better reality, and they hope so hard that they can become naive or easy to control. They are more focused on dreaming up a better future than on doubting it can be possible, which makes them the opposite Aspect to “Rage”. Hope is one of the most interesting Aspects, and I assign the song “Imagine” by John Lennon to it.

Hope will change a lot depending on the Class, but ultimately the Players will have a long relationship with faith. In themselves, in others, in love, etc., in literally anything. Hope Player Jake English said to believe in everyone, and was pretty much the only one who had faith in one of his hopeless friends. Jake also believed things about himself that he wished were true, and he did it so well that he took long to realize it was all made up. He realized his adventure-loving self was just a hopeful way to cope. “You know how you think you know these things about yourself? You just believe them and hope that the believing is what makes them true. But then you spend so much time believing those things and taking their truth for granted that you somehow forget to MAKE them true with your words and deeds. How can I truly love adventure when I never even knew what it was?”

Hope is what is left when there is nothing else. It saves its Players from their lowest lows and carries them to their highest highs. Depending on the Class it can make players full of or lacking hope.

Known Hope Players are Jake English, Eridan Ampora, and Cronus Ampora.

12th Aspect: Life

Life is the Aspect of, obviously, life. Plants, health, energy… It is always growing. In most Classes, Life Players are about curing and auxiliating. A Life Player’s challenge can be about a number of things, some can have problems accepting death is inevitable, some can deny that there are some things they cannot fix, others may worry deeply about health in themselves and others… Like all Aspects, Life differs greatly from player to player, and it can be a very powerful Aspect to deal with. One of the most powerful characters in the comic, the Condesce, was a Life Player. She was an incredible manipulator and used her powers for evil. Another Life Player character was Feferi Peixes, who used her royalty and power for good instead, focused on kindness.

More often than not, Life tends to be about helping others and sometimes being neglectful of your own self for the sake of other people. It can extend not only to humans, but also to beings like trees, which are the symbol of Life. Life can be about growing, it is about energy and life itself, the will to exist and the aspects of existence itself. Living wants to keep living. Even the smallest fly will fight to survive.

Known Life Players are Jane Crocker, Feferi Peixes, and Meenah Peixes.

#sburb #aspects #time #breath #doom #blood #heart #space #mind #light #void #rage #hope #life #homestuck

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un-local · 1 year

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Rogier 7 8 9

7) Ship(s) with them that I like or at least consider:

[1] Past Rogier and D. (Now very divorced) (This will not change) Love that one. To copy paste my end notes from an upcoming chapter:

I just don’t see a way they can have a meaningful relationship without one of them folding and giving up the respective principles that they hold onto so tightly. With the tangled union of Darian’s grief and faith, and Rogier’s... everything, I just don't see that happening. And with their differences in ideology, I don’t see Darian bringing out the best in Rogier, not really. Since to maintain what they have, Rogier is always going to be the one accommodating that—in all his usual, (well-meaning, usually unintentionally) deceptive ways. A bummer, but I think they can still have their somber moments, like in this chapter.

[2] Fia/Rogier. (ONLY with ulterior motives on both sides)

I love them as a dynamic. Neither of them are upfront with their motives, really. (Rogier wasn’t in Stormveil—he only is after he’s injured, and the player helps him with the knifeprint.)

Now, I don’t think they’re liars, persay. I just think that they’re dishonest—in that they’re both playing things close to the vest. It influences what they say and when to a major degree. Especially to each other. Their oppositional goals drive their dynamic, and that's what makes it fun to me.

I do I think they have a certain respect for each other, despite it all.

[3] Rogier/Tarnished I think could be great. D and Fia are too ideologically opposed to Rogier's goals to be anything but bittersweet. A Tarnished who’s sold on Rogier’s vision could be a game changer for him.

It’s something I’m… flirting with… in Still Waters. We’ll see. Atm, its really only there if you want it to be there.

What can I say. (Slowly) escalating, unspoken bi4bi tension is my favorite dynamic. That quiet, undying loyalty that comes only after truly knowing someone... Oh baby. Hell yeah. BUT, like I said, nothing's set in stone. The main plot is written to be wholly focused on an exploration of Rogiers character—as he is now, and his evolution after surviving deathblight.

8) Made-up connections with other characters that weren't in the canon

(friends, enemies, whatever)

Now this is my jam!

[1] Roderika. This is something that’s gonna be in the next update of Still Waters. I have some relevant thoughts in my end notes I'll condense into something shorter:

I’ve noticed a focus on fairness with her. Reciprocity. Seeking a just balance in interpersonal affairs. So when Rogier gives her comfort, but denies her the ability to offer the same, that’s what gets her. The inequity of being shut down like that, especially from someone who is so clearly full of it. (Clearly to her, at least.) Roderika’s impulse here to speak kindly is sweet. And with her abilities and similar background, she can parse through his bullshit better than most. It's what he needed to hear, but certainly not how he needed to hear it.

[2] I think he’s partial to Hewg. His sword is upgraded +8 when you get it, I think Hewg was at least in part involved in that. (It could have been upgraded before coming to The Lands Between, but I like to think some of that work was Hewg's.)

[3] I can't imagine he’s too fond of Gideon. Who is, by the end of things, though?

[4] Highly improbable, but it's funny: If he's found Sellen, she’s sick of all his questions. He's relentless in his pursuit of knowledge, and even she has her limits.

I'd love to think that boss outside her chambers was to keep him from pestering her specifically.

Again, this is absurd, but it's a funny thought.

[5] In a world where he's teamed up with the Tarnished, I think he'd happily do wonders for Boc's self esteem.

Idk, I think one good talk with Rogier would circumvent that whole thing with Rennala. (But Boc definitely still deserves to hear his mother's voice again. Maybe they both try to make Boc feel better. Tag team of emotional support. Lol. Anyway.)

[6] On the idea of traveling with the Tarnished: can he see Melina? He can’t see grace, so it's funny to imagine he can’t see Melina either. The Tarnished he's traveling with just suddenly starts talking to thin air.

In my fic, he's surviving deathblight, and I'm going to have to address this somehow. Such is the nightmare-logistics of writing ER long fic.

9) Backstory Headcanons

I answered this already here, but I have a few more!

[1] In my fic, he landed on the shore of the Mistwood. His first death in The Lands Between was absolutely by Runebear. Naturally, this will be played for comedy in due time.

[2] In his life before The Lands Between, he's held his own in a duel. He was certainly not the one who proposed it, though.

(Now, how dangerous the duel itself was or wasn’t—readers preference.)

[3] His first death, where he realized he was Tarnished, was blessing to him—an opportunity to get out of the life he was expected to live. It was the perfect way to get away and start really pursuing what he cared about. (Glintstone Sorcery. For real. Not just as a status symbol.) (Which, based on the prisoner class description, it was a status symbol of some kind.)

But he does miss the food, though.

Hmm... a drastic way out of a life he never wanted? Sounds familiar... You bet I'm getting to that eventually ;)

[4] The impossible standards, emotional deprivation, and lack of true support wasn't just something he faced from high society. He dealt with it as much in the home as he did outside of it. It's where he learned to keep his real emotions at bay.

He spent his "entire" life behaving with detachment—I can't imagine it started anywhere else than in his own home.

[ Ask Game Link! ] Send me character and a number!

#hare answers #hare posts #rogier #elden ring

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enderwalking · 2 years

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I disappear for one single day to deal with irl stuff and miss your birthday??? Unbelievable, happy belated birthday!!

I get what u mean about aus sometimes just being about the vibes, I think why I'm so hung up on tomoyo in particular (other than my brain being a nightmare that wants No Holes in The Story) is I'm mentally fiddling with a kurogane ctechno's backstory to keep the anarchism in play, so already the role of tomoyo has gotta be a bit different. And because of that my brain wants to figure out All the changes, and what those would mean for c!techno in this au. Rotating him in my head and demanding to know who his catalyst is and all that. Who looked at a violent c!techno in this au and said "we're gonna get you some standards for killing. And also make you a pawn in multiverse chess. Have fun!"

Yuuko cgeorge would definitely be a vibe, and it's easy to make cdream feiwong reed work (the atrocities! The holding onto the past! He would be more than willing), but I think what I like so much about the reverse is where the base motivations lay? Feiwong reed is clinging onto a single person at cost of everything else. Which reads as very similar to c!dream in canon clinging onto a version of the world that no longer exists, but phrase that another way: his base motivation lies in the world being changed in a way he views as negative, and trying to prevent that change/bring it back to its previous state where its already been changed. Which is also what yuuko is doing! It's just that we view yuuko as being in the right because she's. You know. Preventing the collapse of the multiverse. Doing less atrocities. It would be a characterization of c!dream that would borrow a bit more heavily from early days smp I think, but with the pragmatism and bastard energy of current lore. Or maybe not even that, maybe it's just a question of, who does cdream become if his allegiance is no longer happy memories of an 8 person server of friends, but instead the smooth functioning of a multiverse? What is he like if he has different eggs (<- cursed metaphor but whatever it gets the point across)

Also with the whole plot point of feiwong reed being theorized to be like... a fragment of Clow formed entirely from the wish to keep yuuko alive, I think it would be neat to put an earlier days, somewhat kinder and more friendly cdream up against a late days cgeorge who has become so single minded in focus, who cant tolerate the world as it currently exists. To have cdream remembering an early days cgeorge while dealing with the current cgeorge. And yet, the things one could do with cdream and dreamxd if we go the cgeorge is yuuko route...

Oh I figured out my hang up, it's that I can picture a world where cdream chooses the world over cgeorge, especially if cgeorge has become antagonistic to said world, but I struggle to picture a world where cgeorge wouldn't sacrifice the world to keep cdream. However, I also am not a cgeorge or c!dnf scholar, so I'm very open to being told I'm wrong on this bit

yeah trc is especially difficult to cast full aus for considering that there are so many characters that are all so intertwined and it's like, sometimes you just gotta take a character concept and strip it down and run LMAO. like in my ffx au ctubbo's role is most analogous to rikku's role in the game. they are not similar in vibe in the least, but it Works okay i PROMISE.

the thing that is off to me about cgeorge as feiwong is like. cgeorge is so profoundly defined by apathy and inaction? and even in his stream about destroying everything and becoming a god, it's not out of some desperate drive towards an end goal, if anything it's the complete opposite. this is cgeorge essentially throwing in the towel, he's giving up on the entire world but he's also decided to make it the whole world's problem in the process. if his dream hadn't literally handed him the tools for the job, he probably wouldn't have gone on nearly such a rampage; think about how quickly he gave up mining down his statue: "it's such a chore to even destroy myself". that's not to say cgeorge is incapable of fighting for things, but his coping mechanism of choice is not to dig in his heels or press onwards, but instead is to just. give up. disengage. and his constant dreaming just enhances that sense of passiveness.

so yeah i feel like cgeorge in a yuuko-esque role where he's like. trapped in stasis. forced to inaction in some ways. and is trying to fix things to an extent but is limited in his scope just by the nature of his existence? yeah. idk. but also i will confess that some of the finer details of yuuko's stuff does escape me as it has been a Hot Minute since i've reread so i could be bullshitting here LOL. also i think that if cdream had to play multidimensional chess and create a 9000 step plan to ruin lives across the whole of reality all for cgeorge's sake that he would 100% do it in a heartbeat and that arguably you could interpret his actions in canon to be him doing just that, so there's that as well

#asks #trcanon #ALSO TY FOR THE BDAY WISHES SORRY I GOT TO THIS LATE I GOT DISTRACTED BY SHOWING 3L TO MY ROOMMATES

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twin-books · 2 years

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Adrien!

This is an ask directly related to this and I'm finally here to answer it. Or at least part of it. Tagging @non-canon-central because they also asked for Adrien but I was unable to get to him at the time. For some reason Tumblr doesn't want me actually tagging them I guess, so hopefully this freaking works??? So let's make one thing pretty clear; I don't hate Adrien but I do hate his character. That sounds like an oxymoron, I am aware. The best way I can describe this is, it's like the opposite of liking a villain's character but fundamentally hating them as a person. Like I love the idea of Adrien. I think he has plenty of fun potential and it wouldn't take much to make him more intriguing but I just hate how he's written. I'm sure that comes as a shock to absolutely no one. I say this about almost every Miraculous character. I wanted to clear this up because a lot of people seem to believe that if you talk bad about a character, and it isn't some kind of joke, that you just hate that character entirely. This isn't the case with me. Now I mentioned a while back that the only way I believe I could ever hope to explain my frustration with Adrien's character is by comparing him to other similar characters or similar character arcs. My goal is to compare him to a few characters. I tried to keep it to characters within his age range but there are one or two on here that are adults (though I would be referencing a lot of their childhood for at least one). Since I will be comparing Adrien to these characters this means spoilers will be very hard to avoid so I'm just going to warn you now. If you don't want spoilers for the following I suggest looking into these things yourself; Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic the Hedgehog Archie comics, Sonic Universe Archie comics, Sonic the Hedgehog IDW comics, Mr Love: Queen's Choice the Gavin and Kiro story arc, Koi to Producer: Evol X Love the Mr Love: Queen's Choice anime, Ben 10: Alien Force, Ben 10: Omniverse, and Miraculous Ladybug. I was initially going to include Raven Saga from Webtoon but decided against it since it's not nearly a big enough franchise as compared to the others and the author would most definitely not benefit from it. I highly recommend reading it and then you can guess what character in there I found similarities to Adrien in but was just actively done better. I will most likely be splitting this into parts just to make it an easier read. Part 1: Mr Love: Queen's Choice and/or Koi to Producer: Evol X Love - Kiro (Helios)

One of the reasons I believe Mr Love: Queen's Choice's characters are comparable examples to Adrien (despite all the characters presented are adults through most of the story) is because it is an otome game, which means its primary focus is romance much like Miraculous. But also, much like Miraculous, it involves high actions scenes and beings with superpowers. It balances these things quite well whereas Miraculous (in my opinion) does not. And unlike Miraculous, it presents itself as a romance first and foremost, making it clear where their primary focus is whereas Miraculous doesn't really do that. In fact, most of its marketing is pointing at girl power. At least MLQC knows what it's about. Since MLQC knows exactly what it's about it may not come as a shock at all to you that they know exactly what their characters are. And there are two characters in this game that share quite a few similarities to Adrien. However a main difference is that both characters have a clear direction their headed towards but Adrien doesn't.

So let's talk about Kiro (Helios). This is the character I know the least as compared to the others. Most of what I have learned about him I got from the anime which I have learned is not entirely accurate but I will be referencing most of that (sorry die-hard MLQC fans, I am a very slow reader) as well as some scenes from the game.

Who is Kiro, exactly? And who the heck is Helios? Let's define him. Kiro is a mega popular popstar (so popular that girls practically fall at his feet) with a love for junk food and sweets (despite his agent forbids him from eating them). He's musically gifted, being able to pick up and play any instrument after a very short period of trial and error. He is also known to moonlight as a movie actor and a model. He's got a child-like wonder to him and a huge appreciation for superheroes, specifically ones without powers (Batmen, for instance). He shows affection and comfort through cute gestures and physical touch. He's, in essence, a big teddy bear. He's such a teddy bear that the narrative often compares him to one. This perfect teddy bear like nature is easily comparable to Adrien's perfect sunshine character. They both are hugely popular and beloved by their fans. They both show incredible talent, able to take on many tasks given to them such as modeling, acting, and instrument playing with ease. They both show comfort and affection through cute gestures (though Adrien's can be more grandiose) and physical touch. Pretty similar, right? Here's the massive difference; Kiro has flaws. Kiro has secrets. There are things he actively keeps from the MC and behavior one wouldn't associate with his supposedly perfect teddy bear likeness. There's actually a narrative reason why Kiro is presented to be so perfect. There's a reason why it's shoved in your face. We're gonna get into huge spoiler territory here for Kiro. This is your only warning.

Kiro is secretly a vigilante code-named Key (a name passed down to him by his father figure that taught him everything he knows). Key is an expert hacker. Able to hack through almost anything. There's very few things he cannot bypass. He likes to think of himself as a hero and loves to play the hero role (much like how Adrien took to Chat Noir so comfortably). Kiro prefers to use his own wits and hacking skills rather than his evol. That's right, he has evol, which in MLQC is the equivalent to superpowers. His evol is absolute charm. This was actually not fully a secret to us, the reader, but it's a shock to MC. It's heavily implied that Kiro used this power almost unintentionally purely because he's selfish. He longs for people to love him and his power responds to his wants. It's implied he's not aware how much he may use it but it could only be at his concerts. In fact, Kiro may have only been made aware of it when evolvers control over their evol was lost due to tampering with, I believe, electro-magnetic waves. Where, at one of his concerts, his fans began to tear each other apart to prove they loved him more. This is such a shock to him he quits being a popstar immediately because he can't bare the idea he caused that, even if it wasn't his fault he lost control. Now here's the really annoying thing about Adrien; I could totally believe he secretly has absolute charm with the way people just fall in love with him and he's just totally unaware of it but the problem is it's also pretty clear Adrien doesn't even want the attention he gets. And despite how obvious he makes that people blatantly choose to ignore it. This includes Kagami, Chloe, Wayhem, and nearly the entire class! He's not trying to hide it guys! It's pretty obvious he's unhappy with it! What is the purpose of this? To show he's so unfairly treated? How none of this is his fault? He couldn't possibly be unintentionally feeding into some of this because he's perfect and that would be too interesting of an idea. /s Ah, yeah, but I guess it ain't totally obvious because he's totally cool with Ladybug and his best friends giving him that same attention (except in season 4 I guess). Double standards much? What the freak do you want, Adrien?

But let's get back to Kiro because we aren't near done yet. Now here's a fun thing, Kiro actually possesses another evol. This evol he tends to refuse to use unless he has to. It is revealed to us and to MC at the same time. It's important to note that neither of us were aware of it until he had absolutely no choice. I'm gonna try to explain this without giving away too many spoilers because this game is awesome; Kiro refuses to use this power probably because it goes against what being a hero means to him. I should also mention that over using evol can be harmful and even deadly to the evolver. This is also why Kiro probably only ever used absolute charm. Keeping this all in mind, Kiro only decides to use it when he and MC are being chased by the bad guys and there's no way to escape. He has to painfully make the choice to use it on her when they reach the door to the heart of the issue which buys her some time while he fends them off. He risks her hating him just to buy her time so she can destroy the machine and save everyone. He also risks dying due to the sudden amplification of evol power. This self-sacrificing may slightly remind you of Chat Noir but the main difference being... Kiro actually had a reason. There is only about 2 or 3 times Chat Noir's sacrifices had ever made sense in the narrative and were presented as possibly the only action to take in that moment. I cannot stress enough to you how horrifying it is that almost every time Chat Noir self-sacrifices there are clear other avenues they could take and yet he immediately just jumps to the extreme. It makes you think Adrien just wants to die but something as serious as that is never at all focused on beyond one small comment from Ladybug in Lies! For Kiro there was no other option. If they entered the room together they would almost certainly be caught and since in this world they use guns, MC or himself could be dead before he ever got the chance to use his powers. And because MC effectively believes him to be dead after this Kiro takes on a new identity. An identity that isn't the perfect cuddly teddy bear Kiro or the heroic Key but rather someone akin to an anti-hero. Kiro becomes Helios; a cold, methodical man not afraid to use guns and his own power against the enemy. Helios even tricks MC into believing that he has no idea who Kiro is. He actively tricks her just to preserve her good memories of Kiro because there's no way MC could like this cold man, there's no way she could like who he really is. And he does state this a few times, that Helios is the real him even though he seems to almost fear this side of himself. It is MC who had to help him learn to connect Kiro and Helios and to not separate himself. He is Kiro and Helios.

This could almost be compared to Adrien's relationship to Chat Noir. Expect, rather than fearing this other side, he actively chooses Chat Noir over Adrien in most instances. He actively believes Chat Noir to be his true self and does not respond well to being turned away as Chat. This could be interesting and a great way to cause, not only outside conflict, but inner conflict. But this is not even explored. One could argue Kuro Neko did it explore it. But it really didn't. Instead of focusing on who Chat Noir is it, instead, chose to focus on how much Chat Noir loves Ladybug and how she needs him there for... no reason? No, seriously. They give absolutely no good arguments as to why she shouldn't just keep Catwalker around. The one good argument they possibly had they didn't even use. And that was that he freaking distracts her. No, instead their argument here is that he's "too perfect", whatever that freaking means. Excuse me? I believe, since your whole city is at freaking risk, that's exactly the kind of individual you'd want for the job. Never mind you want Chat Noir back for your own personal reasons (whatever those are because they do a very poor job communicating it). Why the freak would anyone turn away someone that's "too perfect"? The only reason I can think of is if she's suspicious of him but she so obviously isn't. They don't even try to explain why Adrien should even keep Chat Noir around if he's apparently only argumentive, not taking anything seriously, and effectively just another member of the team based on the visuals alone. The only thing keeping Chat around is cataclysm. That is it. And that's such a weak argument to stand on when literally anyone else could wear that ring. But no, that can't happen because we have to keep the status quo, I guess. That Ladybug is awesome and Chat is there to just make us laugh and give her an inspiring speech every season finale.

You know what's great about Kiro and Helios? That the narrative doesn't demonize Helios like Kiro does. It goes out of its way to show you how Helios is just as important as Kiro!

I don't get why it's so hard to just show that Chat Noir is just as important to Ladybug as Adrien without having to reference cataclysm or that it's because he's Adrien. How about it's because he's Adrien and Chat Noir? Why are the writers so afraid to merge these two together as if they aren't the same person. Heck, you even have one episode where you do just that but it's a what if episode so it's therefore non-consequential! And I hated Ephemeral but at least it bothered to do that despite pretty much every other episode tackling a similar issue absolutely refusing to do so! But this also required Marinette finding out he was Adrien and then only coming to love Chat that way. Which isn't entirely horrible but it just feels kind of shallow. I would have much preferred she realized she liked Chat but didn't want to "betray" Adrien in her mind so she refused to acknowledge it and then this reveal allowed her to combine the two and except that she has the best of both worlds. In many ways the romance of MLQC lends itself well to the character of Kiro/Helios but the romance of Miraculous seems to fight against the character of Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir. Probably because Kiro and MC's relationship feels like she (and the writers) have fully accepted and loved who he is where Adrien and Marinette's relationship feels like her (and the writers) love only one side of him and the other part is kind of just a small bonus. Oh, but don't worry this works the exact opposite way. Where Kiro actively loves MC, all of her (even though she can be kind of stupid), Adrien over here seems to only freaking like Ladybug. Like, yeah, he's nice to Marinette and he blushes around her occasionally but oftentimes that just feels like he's only blushing because their in oddly intimate positions often for some unknown reason. And also because he likes her as a friend. In Chat Blanc it feels like as soon as he realizes Marinette is Ladybug he suddenly recognizes this out of no where crush (that was barely hinted at). With Kiro he fell in love with MC first, before he found out she was a badass and then he fell even harder. Which makes it all the more ironic that he's willing to except all of her, even her flaws, but he can't seem to do the same for himself. In fact, Kiro even fell in love with MC in a similar way Chat did for Ladybug. MC was his hero. Someone who saved him and others by constantly being around to cheer people up despite the very dark situations of their childhood (which I won't get into because again, I'm trying not to spoil too much here). But that went from just outright admiration to genuine love. Chat's crush feels like he's just been holding Ladybug up on a pedestal the whole time except for kind of near the end of season 4 which I'm not sure why it had to take him that long.

I am not asking for Adrien to be exactly like Kiro. I am asking for him to feel like a sturdy character like Kiro. I am just trying to show that despite the similarities Kiro's character was able to find success where Adrien's character seems to only find failure. Kiro is most definitely not a perfect character. No character is ever perfect. But that's why we love them, isn't it? Because they're imperfect? So why can't the ml writer's seem to pull Adrien out of that bubble? Just let him be selfish without somehow justifying it! Also, keep in mind that this is just my interpretation of Kiro based on my experience with the game and anime. Some of this could totally be wrong or misinterpreted but it speaks volumes I am able to come up with all of this about his character based on what little I know yet for Adrien I have to compare him to characters to even try to explain why he annoys me! But that's just one of the successful characters I could compare Adrien to. The next part I'm going to talk about Gavin, also from Mr Love: Queen's Choice, and see how he also compares to Adrien.

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dreamologisth2o · 3 years

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Why I Believe Endersmile Is Canon

Because I’m on a bit of an Endersmile binge--

This is all gonna be very messy and just me putting my thoughts together and I’ll probably not be going through the VODs for exact timestamps or anything because that’s exhausting and I applaud the people who do, but here are my thoughts on Endersmile and why I’m 100% convinced it’s canon. They’re besties your honor.

/rp Any names mentioned are referring to their dsmp characters and not the streamers themselves unless specified

First off: The Disc. Dream trusts Ranboo, a lot. He trusts him so much that he literally gave Ranboo one of the two discs he needed to pull off his big plan at the finale. He trusted Ranboo, so much that Ranboo deciding to give the disc back to Tommy or Tubbo wasn’t an option, even though Ranboo was friends with both, which he knew. I don’t know why he gave Ranboo the disc, or how he got the disc from Skeppy in the first place, and I’m sure he did have a hundred and one back up plans for if Ranboo did decide to give Tommy the disc, but asking Ranboo to hold onto the disc in the first place means Dream trusted him to a degree, and that’s big coming from Mr. “Reserved”.

Second: Knowing Dream’s Voice. Ranboo knows/remembers Dream’s voice well enough that he hears it whenever he’s in the panic room, that his subconscious uses Dream’s voice to force Ranboo to confront his fears. For a guy who hasn’t had any one on one time or conversations with Dream in VC on stream, he sure does a really good job imagining his voice. /s

Basically, they must have spoken, a lot. They must have spent time together outside planning for things or exchanging items or whatever. So much time, in fact, that Dream and Ranboo both end up sharing the same ideology of “People not sides” of “One big happy family” of “Being the person that stops conflicts” of “Being on all sides” of “Mediating between those sides” of “Choosing the side they think is right”.

During Ranboo’s prison visit dream/nightmare, the Voice tells Ranboo that the only reason Ranboo hasn’t been hearing it lately, is because he hasn’t been speaking with Dream as often. That Ranboo and Dream had talked with each other nearly everyday. And I’m inclined to believe that because the mere existence of the voice proves he’s heard Dream’s voice a lot, or he has a very good memory of Dream’s voice, which, considering his memory problems probably isn’t the case. This is further supported by how ever since Dream’s been in prison, ever since Ranboo banned himself from the prison, he hasn’t heard even a hint of Dream’s voice, not even as he’s remembering more and more.

Third: The Disc War Finale. During the disc war finale, we have in universe proof and out of character confirmation from both cc!Dream and cc!Ranboo that the characters had been staring at each other during the entire thing. Some friends on a discord server have also pointed out how Ranboo appeared to be avoiding Tommy’s gaze unless Tommy’s distracted. And during the entire thing Ranboo’s the only one not holding out a weapon, instead he’s got a book and quill in his hand. We’ve now also got confirmation that Ranboo was Enderwalking during the Disc War Finale, which makes all the strange behaviors make sense because if they’re friends, if they’re allies, then Ranboo didn’t show up to fight Dream. Then Dream might’ve been trying to convey something to Ranboo, like perhaps trying to keep Ranboo from doing something stupid and revealing their alliance. Especially if he planned on being put in Pandora, he really doesn’t need his friend to try and “save” him and ruin the whole plan.

Fourth: The Voice. I am inclined to believe the things the voice says. Why? Because everything the voice is talking about are all the things Ranboo doesn’t want to confront, doesn’t want to see, doesn’t want to remember. The voice isn’t malicious. It’s not even Dream, it’s just using Dream’s voice to make Ranboo listen. And Ranboo knows it’s just himself. (also out of character confirmation from the cc!s that the voice is NOT Dream and never has been, it’s just a manifestation of all the shit Ranboo’s repressed coming up and slapping him in the face) Everything the voice does, all the things it says, is trying to get Ranboo to remember the “bad” things he’s done, to remember that he was on Dream’s side. To force him to face that side of himself that might be capable of doing bad things, if there’s a good enough reason. It exaggerates things, it makes them out to be worse than they actually are, but that’s how it’s able to get Ranboo’s attention, that’s how it’s able to force him to think about those things. Ranboo won’t do anything until he’s forced to face the problem, the Voice is just trying to get Ranboo to do that.

This is why I believe Ranboo DID blow up the community house. Why he’s working with or has worked for Dream in the past. Why he willingly gave Dream his memory book, possibly to create a visible conflict between them and ensure no one would connect them as allies, like what Dream wanted to do with Punz. And also because the other things it’s said, such as Ranboo being given the Cat disc to hold onto, have been proven to be true. Nothing the Voice has said has been confirmed a lie. And many of the things it’s talked about aren’t things we or Ranboo can find the answer to unless he talks to Dream, which is until the dude’s rescued from the prison, isn’t happening. (cc!Dream where’s your Dream lore?!?!?!)

That said, if Ranboo was the one to blow up the community house, then Dream was covering for him during the Disc War Finale. He didn’t have to. He could’ve thrown Ranboo under the bus. But he chose to take on that blame, make himself look even worse in the eyes of everyone gathered there while he was at their mercy, to protect Ranboo from similar persecution. Doesn’t this remind you of anything? And Ranboo’s got a track record of making friends with those who help him.

Fifth: The Visits. Ranboo has visited Dream in prison multiple times. At the very least at least 2 times that we have direct confirmation of, and probably even more. His visits are consistent enough that just a few days after Ranboo bans himself from the prison, Dream notices and starts a strike, tells Sapnap that Ranboo’s stopped visiting, asks him, his best friend who literally threatened to perma-kill him if he were to ever leave his horrible situation, to send a message to Ranboo. (which, I guess Dream still kinda trusts Sapnap despite everything that’s happened, huh?)

Why would Ranboo visit? Unless they’re friends, unless they’re allies? Because even Dream’s so called best friend only ever visited once. Even Bad who Dream claims to have been the nicest only ever visited once. And while Tommy and Quackity visited more than once, their multiple visits have very clear reasons behind them, while Ranboo’s just, don’t.

And consider: How did Ranboo know about the things that were said during the Disc War Finale, word for word, line for line, that he wasn’t present for, unless someone’s told him? Unless he heard about it from Dream himself. Unless that was what they were talking about. Unless that’s part of the reason Ranboo kept visiting Dream.

Sixth: The Lessons. I don’t know about you, but giving life lessons to someone sounds like something you’d do with a friend, and not just a “puppet”. The whole lessons book gives off really mentor mentee vibes, and considering how Ranboo’s following in Dream’s goal of stopping conflict and uniting the server, well. And the lessons aren’t even malicious, or designed to push Ranboo away from others. In fact, many of them, especially the last few ones we see, are designed to protect Ranboo! Unless Ranboo’s safety was a top priority for Dream, there’s not much reason to pass those lessons down. This lines up incredibly well with Dream taking the blame of the community house’s destruction during the Disc War Finale, as well as his protective streak at his own expense when it comes to his allies and the people he cares about. Which means Ranboo is someone he cares about, which means they’re friends! They’re besties your honor!

Seventh: Ranboo’s Vehement Denial. Ranboo is infamous for being an unreliable narrator, for being in incredible denial despite all evidence supporting otherwise. Which means his vehement denial that Dream can be anything but bad is a fairly obvious red flag that that’s not true, and that Ranboo has reason to believe it’s not true, but chooses to actively ignore or forget those reasons and attempts to reinforce the “everything’s Dream’s fault, he can never change and will always be bad” mentality, that sounds like something he stole from Tommy or c!Dream antis, because he doesn’t want to face the fact that he has reasons for believing the opposite. At this point, I am 100% on board with the idea that all these unprompted instances of Dream hate is just a blatant cover up of how that’s not true at all. (Which he touches on, ever so briefly, when he renovates the second stronghold room)

Aaaaand that’s it! For the most part. I could touch on how Enderboo is hoarding all the backbone in this relationship and that the dynamic between Enderboo and Ranboo is closer to that of someone waking up after a sugar high or going for three days straight without sleep than it is two completely separate people or someone who’s literally sleepwalking (and that “Enderboo” is his normal state and “Ranboo” is the sleep deprived not thinking straight state). But this post is already obscenely long and I should end it here.

TL;DR: They’re besties, your honor.

Anyways, if you got this far, thanks for reading!

#my thoughts #my posts #character analysis #endersmile #c!ranboo #long post #dreblr friendly

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kcatta-wodahs · 4 years

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Making Lore Out of the Angel Event

Im the definition of 'its not that deep but I'm going to dig a hole to make it that deep'

In this case its me making it that deep because otherwise this event is upsetting so I'm making some dark lore theories to make it make sense to me.

I'll have a lot of spoilers below. For the event and everything I know, which is up to like lesson 32 I think.

Basically, TLDR; this was an attack by Michael/their Father on Devildom. Simeon and Diavolo have successfully negated the threat by turning it into a game.

TLDR Thesis; The Celestial Realm is governed through careful mind control. The Demon Bros are not "avatars" because of being demons- they have been cursed by their Father to suffer as no other demon nor angel has to.

First we hear direct from Michael, and he's giving these bangles that appear to brainwash the main cast.

This was an attempt by their Father to bring them back under his control. By control, I mean this literally.

I've felt for a long time that the way the Celestial Realm seems to be run is... shady. It's a utopia to outside appearances only, and those who have been most deeply embroiled in the Great Celestial War know this.

The Great Celestial War was over free will, rather than the specifics of Lilith's situation. She was the catalyst for a long-time-coming revolt against the rulers of the Celestial Realm.

My logic for this:

The reason for Lilith's expulsion goes against the current action plan of the Celestial Realm. Peace between the realms? Sure, but their Father is bound to realize that you put angels, humans, and demons together you're going to end up with more angels like Lilith, who fall for other races. Why would he accept this truce if he lost his favored children over an issue that is very similar? Did he have a change of heart? Heavens no.

Luke's behaviour towards the demon's seems case-and-point. Luke is not the strange one out of the angelic transfer students- Simeon is. Not only that, Simeon is chosen not in an attempt to promote peace, but to protect Luke from being influenced. (Which is, again, the whole point\of the exchange program.)

That time we went to the Celestial Realm for real - Lucifer was worried. Scared, even. This can be explained by, you know, the War and Lilith.. but I wonder if it may be more sinister. Like perhaps being brainwashed.

Diavolo and Barbatos weren’t required to wear bangles to become less “demon-like” for the “party”. This is because the bangles were a ploy to get the brothers back.

My theory is that when an angel begins to show signs of rebellion or questioning the divine order, they are forcibly stopped. Michael is that enforcer, and these 'gifts' are a method of stopping them.

The bangles cause a person to act *perfectly angelic* against their free will. The people affected become all smiles and sunshine, so clearly nothing could be wrong with it, right? They’re happy, right?

No. Very not right, and we can see that through Satan.

Poor Satan is always the exception to the rule of the Brothers, as his circumstances are different from everyone else's.

In this case though, he's the one who provides insight on this mind control.

Let me remind you of the quotes Satan gives us during this time:

“I feel worked up.” “I don’t feel like myself at all.”

“It feels like something foreign is forcing my heart to be calm.” “Like my heart... becoming tranquil.”

Satan has never been an angel. He has never experienced this before. He has something the other brothers don’t: self-reflection. Satan can tell the difference between his feelings and feelings that are being imposed upon him. He tells you what he feels - “worked up” and “not like himself” and he is not smiling during this. He’s clearly unhappy, even though an angel might say he should feel unburdened by losing his anger.

He even mentions this.

“Normally, that wouldn’t seem like something bad, right?” “Something isn’t right.” “Maybe you shouldn’t come near me when I’m in this state.”

Satan is under the effects of the bangle, being forced to act angelic, but he can tell something “isn’t right.” He clearly shows that he thinks this is a “bad” thing, not because being calm is bad, but because it’s not “normal”. And can I remind you that he’s the Avatar of Wrath? The Sin that is most likely to be dangerous to be around - and yet it’s only when his anger is forcibly quelled that he thinks you should stay away from him. He knows that this is not something to desire. He knows that it is not happiness.

“I can’t concentrate on reading today.”

I mean, he’s obviously going through a lot, so that’s fair. But I have the theory that if he were to try and research this condition he wouldn’t be able to either. I have a theory about the Garden of Eden. My theory is about Paradise.

Remember when Eve ate the fruit? Do you know what that fruit was? Sin?

No. That fruit was knowledge.

Specifically, knowledge of good and evil. Now, why would this knowledge be something to keep from those under the control of the Celestial Realm? It sounds rather like they might be able to then make their own decisions of what is right and wrong.

Satan has known this from the beginning. Knowledge is power. The Ruler of the Celestial Realm, the other demons’ Father, knows this, too.

Why are there no other Avatars?

Sin was not something inherent to Devildom. Sin is a judgement sent from the Celestial Realm. There are no other Avatars because they are a wholly angelic creation. There are other posts that have examined the Sins as outlets, and how each of the brothers are attempting to find ways to allow themselves to express their sin so it does not overtake them.

From the get-go, we are shown that these Sins are a defining point for the brothers, but we’re also shown that they cause more trouble than anything else. Again, part-and-parcel of being a demon, right?

So why aren’t other demons like this?

Look at Diavolo and Barbatos, or even just the background demons who work across Devildom. Look at No. 2. They are all far more complex, and could even be considered normal. No. 2 is specifically meant to be based off of Mammon and his greed, but is much more rounded when we interact with it.

If Diavolo is meant to be the ruler of demonkind -- the paragon of what a demon should be -- then why would he not be the epitome of all of these Sins in one? What is Diavolo, instead?

Diavolo is accepting.

Hold up a moment here. What? Sorry y’all but it sounds to me like Mr. Demon Daddy King trusts his son enough to pass the kingdom on to him... so that must mean that Diavolo is behaving as a demon should.

Barbatos doesn’t question Diavolo’s choices. Nobody does. He’s an all around popular ruler. Devildom seems to be quite.. the opposite of what we’ve been trained to expect, huh? Trained by who exactly?

What are the Demon Brothers?

Cursed. They don’t act like other demons because they’re not like other demons. When they rebelled against their Father, they were punished for this act, but I posit that the punishment and the exile were two different acts. Their Father knew that leaving the Celestial Realm was not punishment to those who desired free will. So instead, he gave them Sin. Something that Demons are not normally bound to.

But how would the brothers know this? They only know what they’ve been taught by angels about demons. Surely these new, pressing desires come from turning into demons..?

So, why was this not taken seriously?

Short answer: it was. But in the way that aligns with Diavolo’s ultimate goals.

Diavolo wants peace.

Let’s Talk About Simeon

Simeon is an enigma and a half isn’t he?

Simeon is close with Michael, closer than Luke in any case. Now, I’ll be honest, I can’t remember if it was a fanfiction I read that said this or if it was canon so uh - forgive me. But Simeon was chosen to accompany Luke as an exchange student so that Luke would get some education. Simeon says this is to help relations, as Diavolo wants, but of course that’s what you would say as a sleeper agent?

Now, don’t get sad. Because we love Simeon here and we support him.

Simeon is wise and neutral. He seems to support the brothers, and even still wishes to foster a relationship with them. This could be seen as an attempt to bring them back, or some such, but I like to think that Simeon knows what’s wrong with the Celestial Realm.

Simeon, however, doesn’t think that a revolt can solve it. Simeon is working with Diavolo to create a form of peace - and has been transparent about the fact that Michael chose him to prevent Luke from being corrupted. I like to think he’s also been transparent with Diavolo about Michael’s actual goal.

Simeon believes that the races should co-exist and love freely. How could love be evil, after all? Whether or not this is a new concept to him (because of his falling for you) or if this is just who he is, I’ll leave up to you and your preferences, but since he is now no longer undateable, it is established that he does not believe love between angels and humans to be bad - as his Father did with Lilith.

What happened, then?

My theory is that Simeon told Diavolo that Michael had given him a task - to give these bangles to the brothers to remind them of the joy they were missing by disobeying the Divine Order. Either that, or to brainwash them into coming back home.

Simeon’s position would be revealed to Michael if he didn’t give the brothers the bangles, but he does not want to instigate another war either. So he told Diavolo Michael’s plan.

Diavolo wants peace, and he knows that with time, the brothers can overcome this mind control as they had in the past - especially with his help.

So thus comes the “party”.

An excuse to make the bangles seem like a “harmless” gift, that had only gone wrong because of strange magical interference, when really they had done exactly what they were supposed to.

And a wonderful way to maintain peace while leaving the Celestial Realm to stew in their own pots.

Simeon gets to maintain his facade for everyone - and put on a show for Michael as being loyal. He also gets to show Luke that perhaps being wholly angelic isn’t the way for some people, letting him learn a little more about peaceful coexistence. Nothing happens to ruin Diavolo’s grand plan for peace, and he gets to learn more about the curse that is set upon his friends - One that he hopes to be able to break someday, so they can live their lives unfettered by their Father.

#okay this has gone on long enough #i have other ideas about satan in this whole situation but this is my canon now okay #the celestial realm is shady af #Our group of friends are the ones trying to rebel against it #but also are the victims of what happens if you do #man i wish that they would go into deep lore and plot like this in the game #but its an otome so i can't really expect that #anyway this is how im going to treat the whole thing #obey me lore #lore #bast babbles #obey me event #angel event #obey me angel event #obey me #obey me shall we date #obswd #headcanons

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kryptsune · 4 years

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World Building Wednesday!~ Etherium

🌼 I decided to share one of my AU worlds that is not Fell based. Yes... I know... what is the world coming to? Etherium in essence is my stab at an Outertale based universe though the story and the designs are very different. I really enjoy this one though I don’t talk about it too much. Let’s get started!

Etherium AU

Classification: Outertale Alternate “Nicknames” Info:

Sans: Nova- Nova is the trickster though he is mostly associated with that of Loki. Loki is described specifically as “Playful, malicious ( ok maybe not that one), helpful, and nihilistic.” He helps others in a kind of goofy over the top way. He just doesn’t take much seriously. Nova is one of the youngest. He acts very childish at times coming to question how long he has been among the pantheon. Some argue his many centuries gave him a nihilistic outlook on life or that he is too young to understand the true ways of the world.

Not to say that Nova can’t be serious but he is pretty laid back. It’s one of the reasons unlike the others he doesn’t really keep his cultural ties in his design. He should have more Norse in it but nah… varsity jackets are cozy right? I mean he is wearing star shorts for stars sake. When asked about his job he mentions, “Hey, there kiddo. Nice of ya to drop by. Been up to? Heh well got a “new” job which is pretty cool. Not as cool as Pollux but I help arrange stars. Ya know, like the ones you see in the sky you can make pictures out of? I think you humans call em… constellations. One time I made this giant whoopee cushion one. “Then I lost ma job. Got a second chance though. Andromeda's constantly watchin me. hehe no harm done though.” Both Pollux and Nova refer to each other as brothers but it is unclear if they are biologically related. Their abilities and strengths are nearly opposite and their mythos even more so.

Papyrus: Pollux- The presumed older brother of Nova. Pollux is associated with Egyptology specifically wisdom. Pollux tends to be the opposite of Nova in that he takes his job very seriously. Once on earth he was known as Thoth gracing humanity with a mechanical and architectural knowledge that astounded the world. His mind and intellect put him at the forefront of innovation making him one of Capricorn's best and most trusted advisors.

He enjoys testing the mental prowess of others using puzzles and riddles of his own design. Unlike canon Pap Pollux cares more about balance in life. Something his younger brother seems to lack. Not all work and not all play. He is kind, helpful, and willing to give advice to anyone that is looking for it. To the little human Frisk he is a good mentor and teacher. (Pollux has made it his pastime to create a series of challenges to prove a humans worth. If they pass then they are able to speak/ see them. No one has managed to prove themselves.)

(more characters and info below the cut)

Undyne: Andromeda- Andromeda is not different from canon Undyne as she embodies the Mayan mythology. She is mostly closely associated with the feathered serpent Quetzalcóatl. A deity of wind and rain. Also known as the life giver. Though Andromeda tends to harken back to her more aggressive roots she has a deep respect for the King and acts as his guard. Just like Pollux she too acts as an advisor, though more on matters of security than strategy or mechanics. Such a position is where she first met Elara and to this day the two are inseparable sharing their very different cultures. Her favorite kind of anime to watch are mech based.

Alphys: Elara- Very similar to canon Alphys just as this version of Undyne is. Alphys is based off of Sukuna-Biko-Na (少名毘古那) or the shinto god of medicine and rain. Elara is still very much a scientist and one that has a unique fascination with living things. Everything from the planets, to humans, animals, and plant life. She particularly enjoys spending time in her private greenhouse creating and taking care of all of the plant life. Before the monsters were forced to leave their place among the humans she was able to collect all the DNA of the plants and animals on the planet.

They are stored in a kind of ark in which to preserve them if anything threatens their existence. Elara is very traditional in her work as her medicines are derived from her magic as well as herbal substances. She is very curious however as she is not allowed to interact with the progress of humanity but rather watches from afar. This is where her love of anime takes hold. Her favorites are ones like Sailor Moon or any type of magical girl anime. She will sit with Andromeda and watch them for hours. Her demeanor is very shy at first but once she opens up she will be a friend for life.

Asgore: Capricorn- The head of the cosmic pantheon he is the King as he is in the original. He is associated with Celtic mythos though he has taken on many pantheon roles in his lifetime. Ambisagrus, a god of thunder and lightning, Ancestor God, Sky God, God of Wind, Rain & Hail is what he is based off of. One such role is that of Zeus who’s main symbol is that of lightning and thunder. Just like the Zeus of mythology Capricorn is constantly debating his involvement with humanity.

Whether that be to stop their technological advances or aiding in their lives. A large portion of his time was spent with his subjects not so much his wife Aurora who is the jealous type. Capricorn is not a ruthless leader but he does know that sometimes hard decisions must be made. Just like UT Asgore he is kind and benevolent, however, he has a temper if you make him angry enough. His magical abilities lean more toward lighting then fire but he has that ability as well. He tasked Elara to watch over human development should a problem arise.

Toriel: Aurora- The Queen to Capricorn she is known to be easily jealous. It would explain why Zeus wife Hera also shares these traits. Her Gaelic deity tie is that of Arianrhod a goddess of the moon and stars. She creates life from the stars she creates sometimes causing them to take a form of their own. They are almost like living constellations. Some say that the Queen made such life to combat her own loneliness which her Son and Husband spent time away. In addition to the stars she is also known for being a loving mother and caregiver. In her time on earth she used to watch over and protect children and their families. Aurora though previously jealous of her simple in the universe has come to accept and embrace it. She is kind but rather over protective. Anyone that forsakes life will feel her wrath.

Muffet: Umbra- Umbra is associated with Hindu mythology as a goddess of wealth and prosperity. Though earthly riches do not concern Umbra she still has a taste for the fine silks and gold that she once had on earth. A little about the goddess that she represents: Lakshmi's name comes from the Sanskrit word laksya, meaning an aim or goal. She is the goddess of wealth and prosperity, both material and spiritual. Unlike UT Muffet, Umbra also focuses on a spiritual wealth. A peace of mind.

She is ever the optimist even when things do not turn out to go her way. In times of need she is called those in the struggles of self worth trying to bring them into a different understanding. There have been many a time when Umbra calms Capricorns quick and rash judgements, much to Auroras displeasure. Just as with the rest of the pantheon she is kind and helpful even with her yearning to return to the people she so loved before they were forced to the outskirts of the galaxy.

Grillby: Helio- Helio derived from sun is my OT Grillby. He out of all the characters could care less about either being a deity or an observer. He is known to be at a middle ground. He would rather live his days running a social establishment but during his time on earth he was known for his magic. Originally he was the right hand of Capricorn being depicted as a war deity for his fiery nature. He was the general of grand armies. His armor is something he hung up long ago but if called into court he will wear it once again. It’s design is very reminiscent of Roman centurions.

Though depictions of him are curious since his name back then was referred to as Merlin. He was best known for him magic and alchemy and the concoctions he made during a period of time far lacking in imagination. Just like Nova, Helio, tended to interfere far too often in the affairs of man though noble in purpose. He tends to be outcast among the pantheon for his past conduct but he is content in his lab mixing crazy concoctions. Everything from love potions to disguises. His forte is all about alchemy and magic.

Asriel: Azicree (Azi)- Azicree or Azi for short is the Crown Prince. By monster standards Azi is still very young, however, he has lived for far longer than any human can fathom. His mother used to shelter him until he begged for his father to let him prove himself. He still acts like a child always curious and desiring some form of exploration. Much to Capricorns dismay Azi enjoys spending time with Nova and the two become pranksters in general. He tends to not do as he is told, which is why they are in this mess in the first place. His reckless behavior had him appearing to a human that begged for his salvation.

The matters of life and death are ones that are not to be messed with. Those that do find their souls being tainted for all eternity turning them into something other than just a monster. 9X is an example of such tampering. Azi does learn his lesson and begins to try and shape up to be a worthy successor to his father if such a thing ever did come to pass. He studies off of all those he knows especially Pollux who is more than happy to share such knowledge. His associations are non existent since he was born after the times of gods. His abilities seem to be mimic based.

He is able to learn about abilities and use them at will. It is rare that monsters have children and as such Azi is the little prodigy child even though there are many times he just wants to be a kid. He makes friends with Frisk very quickly and learn a lot from the human visitor.

Gaster: Nero is the Gaster of this universe. He is Capricorns pantheon counterpart. In essence the Hades to his Zeus. He is the monster that everyone thinks about when darkness takes hold. He is the one that associates with apocalyptic events such as ragnarok. He is however not evil by any stretch of the imagination. He would be better suited to be called a god of chaos. He tends to reject the laws placed upon the rest of the pantheon regardless of repercussions.

It’s speculated that both Pollux and Nova were a part of him and crafted into the monsters that are known today. Nova being his more devious side which Pollux is more his intellect and drive. He has been locked away for a very long time in a prison aptly named Tarturus. His abilities are space and time oriented very similar to Nova which makes him difficult to imprison. He of course has been in his cell for quite some time and it is unclear if he actually has had a change of heart or using it as a manipulation tactic.

The only one he speaks with on occasion is Azi wanting to learn more about this planet they all used to call home. It is information that the others tend to not speak of. His father more so as he is afraid it will instill a yearning in his son. Nero’s genius is on par with his godly abilities such as creating artificial intelligence. Something that is not considered life. He uses Azi as a template for this new program...

FLOWEY:

F- Friendly

L- Life-like

O- Operating system

W- With

E- Earthbound

Y- Yearning

F.L.O.W.E.Y was created by 9x and Nova with Azi as a template. He is a charismatic AI who was originally created as a helper as well as to teach the Prince about their planet of origin. Unfortunately Flowey does not have the same reservations about disobeying his father as Azi does. Even going so far as to integrate with key and vital systems in The Capital. He even manages to intercept a human vessel that he finds exploring. Flowey is not evil he just is driven to be the best help he can without regards to any type of consequences. He helps Frisk meet and learn more about their existence. He acts as a companion.

However when Frisk becomes friends with Azi Flowey's AI goes haywire. He begins to feel emotions he is not technically allowed to such as jealousy. This causes him to try and eliminate those threatening him which in this case would be all the monsters. Eventually Azi attempts to program himself into the interface changing it’s initial programming.

Blookie: Nebula

Riverperson: Omni

Gerson: Quasar

The Ursas: Ursa Major/Minor

Greater Dog/ Lesser Dog: Canis Major/Minor

MTT: Gigabit

Character Origin/Mythos:

Sans- Norse (Trickster) Papyrus- Egyptian Undyne- Mayan Alphys- Japanese (shinto) Asgore- Celtic Toriel- Celtic Muffet- Hindu Grillby- Medieval (Merlin) Asriel- Celtic through lineage Gaster- Greek/Roman Blookie- Western Guard dogs- Constellations (Native American) Riverperson- Greek (Charon) Gerson- Chinese (Divination/ wisdom)

Background and Context:

A long time ago there lived beings of great power. They could bend space and time with a simple thought and bring life to their creations. These were the gods. Ones of great benevolence but also great and terrifying power. Humanity, a primitive race just starting to understand life itself, became their focus. At first their interaction was very rare only occasionally appearing to help but as time went on those interactions became more drastic. Their assistance and knowledge was seen as godlike to this humans.

They would bring gifts and offerings to their new deities in hopes that they would look favorably upon them. That they would impart their wisdom and magic if they were pleased. In time this became more and more tradition. A religion built upon pleasing these deities so that their lives would be far improved but this became a conundrum for the beings. Some remained benevolent and helpful while others becomes greedy and wrathful. The power began to go to their minds corrupting their souls. These instances were written down in variation by the humans making up grandiose stories of fiery chariots and jealous gods. Thus mythology came into being for humanity. A way to explain the things in which they did not understand.

As with each religion and deity the monsters each became associated with a specific culture or mythos. Some being pinnacles of their pantheon and others being lesser deities molded to suit a specific task. These monsters rarely interacted with ones of their own kind but as power shifted some of them took on roles of others. One monster could have been the god of war in Greek mythos but end up also as the god of thunder in Norse. There were no limitations to their influence. One such “deity” was that of the trickster. A monster that tended to be rather childish in his ambitions jumping from pantheon to pantheon looking to lighten up his other “deities” stern demeanors.

The monsters began to pull away leaving their presences in name only and occasional help but this was short lived. It caused problems, war, destruction, and feuding powers sadly began to use their civilizations as almost pawns. Their meddling almost destroyed that which they wanted to originally protect. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The “gods” faded from existence only being remembered in myths and legends. The great prophecy of the Norse. The architectural marvels of the Egyptians. Now they reside in the furthest reaches of the galaxy. They spread out among the stars but a group of them resided in a Capital of sorts. A station at the edge of the Universe. One which no human could ever reach.

The Humans Impressions:

When the monsters left the humans to their own devices they worship continued long after. Eventually the magic and the miracles that had once been performed faded into history. The monsters were all but forgotten unless mentioned in mythology or scary stories. The humans never harbored any animosity toward them since they no longer believed in their existence in any form. They only understand what their ancestors depicted them as. The monsters as well don’t really have anything against humans either. All in all, they just go about their jobs and enjoy the universe, helping from time to time discreetly if need be but never showing their faces.

Main Plot Synop:

The plot to Outertale is very simple as it is more based around the world than it is the actual plot. It is very similar to that of the regular UT timeline with some notable differences. Once the humans reach an age of technological advancement they begin to spread out and search the stars. Some of them encounter monsters which they mistake for aliens (hilarious enough. I mean Jerry looks like an alien.) They begin to build colonies living more and more outside the reach of their own galaxy. Humans however tend to turn on their own creating factions within the space colonies. Some more prosperous than others.

Frisk’s colony was one such beast being cut off from the other colonies as a drifter. Unfortunately Frisk’s family was nearly non existent and being stuck on a space colony was little to be desired. After seeing a streak of fire slamming into the outskirts of the colony. Frisk decides to investigate. They have always been the curious type disobeying orders and questioning everything. The colonies outer and more dangerous regions became their playground finding old pieces of technology. Eventually they stumble upon a crashed ship. One that It seems to damaged to be used but it’s nothing like they have ever seen before. Everyone else on the colony consider it to be cursed.

The strange runic language is confusing but Frisk finds that there is one lone computer onboard that seems to still function. It flickers with a bright yellow light showing an almost pixelated Flower with a =) face on the screen. Over the next few days Frisk returns to decipher the runes with the help of their new friend which they find out is called Flowey. It is a project that the curious human enjoys and for once it is nice to have a friend. Eventually the runes are deciphered claiming some sort teleportation capability. Once Frisk is close enough the system fires up on its own sending the human straight to the monster Capital on the farthest reaches of the universe. A place that no human has ever been.

The rest of the story is an exploration of this new environment. Frisk befriends the monsters who don’t attack first. They actually mostly want to engage with the human showing off their ability a little bit. A part of them misses the previous worship. Nova seems to take a particular interest in this new human especially when they befriend Azi. They work to help shut Flowey down only for Azi to impart his knowledge on the interface helping it understand. Frisk has nothing to return to so they stay with the monster and become Azi’s human tutor so that one day maybe the monsters can return and live side by side the humans once again. Both Azi and Frisk are almost like siblings coined the star children.

#undertale #sans #outertale #Etherium AU #undertale au #kits multiverse #friskys multiverse #concepts #my au #pollux #nova #mythology #WBW #Worldbuilding Wednesday AU edition #fun fun

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immortal-enemies · 3 years

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this would probably be an unpopular opinion but i don't understand how everyone seems to sympathise so much with grace

yes, tatiana was abusive and she didn't deserve to have the kind of childhood she did - but does that really make her "a great character that needs a redemption arc" though? She's done a lot of awful things (explaining in detail is tiring but i think we all get the gist lol) and not everything was because she was simply forced to. This one is based on personal preference but i really don't think she has that much of a personality either.

something common I see is "she would be a lot more loved if she was a man" and while i agree, i honestly think she would also be criticised a lot more by the fandom. So many of the m characters have the "they're terrible because they had a bad childhood/was abused and didn't actually want to be awful" trope and the fandom is critical of them (as they should). But why is it different with grace?

I'm not trying to invalidate other's opinions but i just find it hard to agree with her getting a redemption arc. I'm fine with people liking her character, I guess it's more of when they try to justify what she did and excuse her actions? also sorry this is so long 😅

Hey!! Absolutely no problem!! This was, for lack of a better word, interesting to read.

Alright, I'm sorry that this took so long to answer, but I was considering exactly HOW I was going to answer.

So, I'm turning this ask into a ask/rant. Under the cut is my current, unedited, written at 12:00 am, honest opinions on Grace and ig Tatiana, keep in mind that I am, I guess, “anti grace blackthorn” so this isn’t full of defenses for her, quite the opposite, in fact. Read at your own risk (fair warning, it’s long), but since no one will probably read it anyway, idk.

Yes, after CoI that is an unpopular opinion. No, I don't understand it much either. To a certain degree.

One of the things I think that people seem to forget/overlook/ignore is that, despite everything, Grace still had a choice. She decided to give in and spend years abusing a young boy. Tatiana is abusive, but that will never change the fact that, at the end of the day, Grace still had a choice. And yes, I understand why she did it. She was in a horrible place, mentally and physically, but she still decided. No amount of arguing will change that fact. It's her life, it's her choice.

Yes, she did do horrible things without needing to. Her power in to compel/control men. She didn't have to kiss Matthew and use it as some sort of blackmail, but she did. She actually had no reason to other then some personal reason. She could have made Mathew forget. In CoI Grace claims that Matthew would have forgotten the kiss anyway, so why do it in the first place?

That's one of the problems I have with how CC wrote Grace. She had to make the one girl abusing a boy be because she didn't want to show her young female audience that they can be abusive too. Women can be just as abusive as men, and TSC is an awful example of that. Looking at all of the abusive characters who were like that simply for their own possible benefit, the ratio of men to women in that is completely off balance. Not saying it has to be equal, but I'm fairly certain Grace would be the only female character abusing a male character for her own personal gain, while adding a character to her (yes, I also agree that she has none.) not necessarily a character to look up to, but she's not that in canon either.

Now, a point on Tatiana: Tatiana is a character who was driven to be crazy by severe trauma, grief and mental illness, and is portrayed as one of the main villains of the series because of what those factors led her to become. It's also used as a plot point that "she could have reached out to anyone in her family; they were willing to help." So you're telling me that she's the villain because she didn't reach out to the people who, in her point of view, murdered her father, husband and son? ESPECIALLY in the 1800-1900's? That ain't it. We all know that the Shadowhunter families, and Shadowhunters in general, are not responsible for this, but when you look for someone to blame, especially in a horrific mental state, that could very easily be the only thing you hold on to. To be clear: I'm not defending her. Going back to my Grace point, she DID still have a choice in who she became, but I hate how people go "UwU Grace" and then "Tatiana is the bad one 😡" when they're very similar.

Now, onto your last point: gender.

Yikes, touchy subject in fandom.

Yes, if Grace was a man, she would be much more liked from the beginning. But also, if she was a man, then the Grace stans probably wouldn't BE Grace stans, and would hate him relentlessly and criticize and hate. One of the main reasons that people excuse her so much are because she's a girl who's abusive to a boy!! And like, boy's can't BE abused. ESPECIALLY by women, right? I mean, THEY'RE always the abusers!! (/s)

Something else: Christopher.

Alright. This isn't very big, but people praise Grace for not controlling Christopher in CoI. That's horrible. You don't praise people and say "UwU so cute couple goals!" at the fact that she didn't do something absolutely awful to him.

A general criticism of YA is how, in general, m/f relationships are portrayed in a kind of stereotypical/abusive way? Like, you have the guy who, in absolutely NO way can call out/say ANYTHING negative about their female love interest, and are often portrayed as afraid of them. That's... Ew. And then you have the girl who is a badass mf who gets some sick pleasure out of scaring the "love of their life"? Ew. But it's also always said that that's what a relationship should be, and I'm not saying that that's what young girls are going to look up to/expect a relationship to be like, but fiction does affect reality. And honestly for a while I was genuinely terrified at being in a relationship because I didn't want to treat a guy how these girls in YA do. That was mostly unrelated, but I thought of it while thinking of a response to this ask so it's gonna be included.

Anyway, it does beg the argument: what would I have done in Grace's position? What was she supposed to do in such a difficult situation? Well. A mere year ago I would have said "I wouldn't have done it" but know that I would if I was broken down enough, especially at the age Grace was when she got her power. But now, I can easily and honestly say, that I would not agree to anything Grace did. If I was put in her position, I would venomously refuse.

There was more I wanted to say, but like, no one is reading this anyway do like-

#ANYWAY-#thank you for the ask!!! 💖💖#sorry for derailing it 😭#tw all caps #tw caps in tags #tw abuse #anti grace blackthorn #anti gracetopher #anti cc #anti cassandra clare #asks #anon #jenny rants

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chouetteffraie · 4 years

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The Inherent Romanticism of Headpats - Why Ship Dazatsu

I was scrolling through the dark corners of bsd tumblr and came across a few “Why I Ship (blank)” posts and thought I’d like to try and articulate my unending love for dazatsu in a similar fashion! Please note that I am in no way trying to steal the spotlight from other ships or trying to claim that dazatsu is “better” - it’s just my favorite and I wanna talk about them! Also, I physically cannot talk about them without a shipper’s bias - I’ve had them in my heart since like late 2016. This is ingrained into my spirit.

So, without further ado, let’s talk about why I ship dazatsu (and why you should too). yes i’m kidding about that last part.

warning for manga spoilers and headers that would make amazing fic titles. tag me if you use one. manga pictures taken from dazaiscans and easygoingscans.

1. The Promise to be Good

hehehe let’s start with maybe the most obvious one that is, arguably, the most canon fact about these two. Just because I choose to view it as romantic doesn’t mean it IS - but it is certainly a beautiful aspect of their relationship and yes it makes me soft every time I think about it.

We all know Dazai’s past and what inspired him to make the switch from the Port Mafia to the side that saves people - Odasaku. No matter what you say, it’s obvious that Oda and Dazai have a very close, meaningful relationship - and arguably, Odasaku had the biggest impact (and the most importance?) in Dazai’s life. When Oda told Dazai to leave the Port Mafia, to go make something beautiful with his life - he did. And it’s those words alone that keep him motivated to stay in his job and help protect the city - because he loves it, maybe, but because someone he loves urged him to.

Dazai, despite what his strange poetry may make you believe, is only human. As much as those words mean to him, he gets discouraged.

Along comes Atsushi, the starving tiger boy by the river. Atsushi is an orphan parallels to oda saving the orphans already, and he was in dire need of someone to save him. So, Dazai did. Whether it was because of the tiger or Odasaku’s last words, Dazai saved Atsushi and gave him life. He provided food, shelter, a means to provide for himself - even companionship. Everything Atsushi has, it started with Dazai picking him up off the riverbed and lugging him along. What’s more, Dazai didn’t just turn him over to somebody else - he presented a case to Fukuzawa to keep him and serves as his mentor. Further along in the canon story, he provides Atsushi with the emotional guidance that he needs (Portrait of a Father, anyone? Let’s cry over that for a second.) He doesn’t just give Atsushi a moment’s care - he helps him build himself up, he supports him, and together, they protect the people of Yokohama.

Atsushi is living, breathing proof that Dazai is living up to his promise to be a good man. Even better, he seems to be perfectly happy with confirming that yes, Dazai is good, whenever Dazai needs it.

In this way, they complete each other. They provide a source of comfort that nobody else has been able to. Atsushi is Dazai’s proof that he is doing the one thing he wants to do, more than anything - be what Odasaku wanted.

2. You Saved Me, We Save Each Other

Keeping that in mind, Atsushi is sort of Dazai’s reward for being good. Now, I’m not implying Dazai is owed Atsushi at all - to an extent, you could argue Atsushi is maybe even too good for Dazai. But Dazai is trying to be a good man, and Atsushi is the one who tells him and reaffirms his efforts and gives him that praise, that recognition, that reward for being good. Dazai’s main inspiration to stay on the light(er) side is Odasaku - but that doesn’t mean that Atsushi can’t become another huge driving force that makes Dazai want to stay on that path. Oda motivates him, gives him the reason to start. Atsushi can be the prize that makes trying worth it when he tends to forget.

Atsushi saves Dazai. He saves him from his self-doubt, and from the world that gives him every reason to believe he has failed in his promise. If anything, that promise might be Dazai’s strongest lifeline. By reinforcing the line, Atsushi is saving Dazai.

And of course, Dazai saves Atsushi. He did literally save him by the river, and he helps teach Atsushi how to Not Die by virtue of being his mentor, but it’s more than that. Dazai has been the one to save Atsushi from his own mind time and time again. He provides a reason for Atsushi to believe he has (or is) earned/earning the right to live. Atsushi isn’t entirely over his desire to prove himself worthy - but Dazai is always the one to tell him that he has succeeded in his goal. Dazai is the one to say “You’ve proven yourself. You deserve the life you’re living.”

3. You Learn Something New Every Day

As Atsushi’s mentor, Dazai naturally teaches Atsushi things. But beyond the simple strategic battlefield lessons, Dazai has been there for Atsushi multiple times to help him address and begin to overcome his trauma. Sure, some efforts are worse than the others (dazatsu stans just wipe our memories of the train station scene and that’s valid and sexy of us i think.) But in times when Atsushi is clearly distressed, Dazai has been there to help him through it. He’s helped Atsushi sort through his grief, and he’s helped Atsushi start to see that his feelings are valid and that he’s allowed to live a fulfilling life.

Atsushi isn’t the only one learning, though! That’s one of the best parts of the ship - Atsushi teaches Dazai, too. Dazai has spent a long time feeling as though nobody will understand him intimately, or as deeply as Odasaku did. But Atsushi is getting there. He’s one of the closest to it, I think. From saying things like Dazai is a good man, to picking up on Dazai’s feelings at Oda’s grave in Dead Apple, and even the end scene when Dazai asked Atsushi directly if he thought he was a good person and Atsushi said without hesitation “Sure, why?” Atsushi teaches Dazai that he is human. He teaches Dazai that he is capable of feeling and forming close, intimate connections. They help the other learn about the areas they need to, and in both cases, they’re becoming patient teachers and prized pupils.

4. I’ll Listen When Nobody Else Will

Everybody knows how Dazai is often brushed off when talking about dying. People have brought up that the agency just has faith in his resilience, but that doesn’t meant that they aren’t acting without care towards Dazai. Atsushi does this too - in the very first episode, Dazai’s attempt at suicide is just taken with him being exasperated at his antics before pushing him down. But here’s the thing - it’s generally agreed upon that Atsushi is the one who is sent out to find Dazai. Atsushi is the one who knows where to find him. Arguably, Atsushi is the one that will listen to Dazai. He’s becoming the one who can not only pick apart Dazai’s mannerisms and slightest tells - he isn’t proficient, but he’s working on it - but he’s the one that treats them with care.

I’ve spent a lot of time noting similarities between the understanding Atsushi has of Dazai to the understanding Dazai’s truest friend had to him. Here’s one thing that separates Oda from Atsushi, and for me, it’s one of the major reasons why I personally ship one more than the other: Odasaku didn’t push Dazai the way Atsushi does. Both Oda and Atsushi have a way of laying out a field for Dazai to talk and bounce his thoughts off of, no matter how cryptically they come out. But Atsushi asks questions, he prods at the darkest corners of Dazai and he allows Dazai to question himself so he can continue to grow. Where Oda gave Dazai a place to feel comfortable in where he was, Atsushi gives Dazai a space to feel comfortable as he grows, which is what he needs in order to continue being a good man.

And please note, this isn’t me saying dazatsu or Atsushi is better than odazai or Odasaku. What I mean to say is this is where the difference lies, and Atsushi gives Dazai what he needs now - something he might not have needed without Odasaku’s urging to leave.

5. Guiding Light

When two characters are each other’s north star, where is there not romance? Dazai is very much Atsushi’s main source of guidance, a side effect of being his mentor for sure - but it’s more than just asking questions. Their relationship runs deep into Atsushi’s train of thought, to the point where Atsushi hallucinates Dazai’s presence when he feels uncertain. Any time Atsushi needs guidance or reassurance, he looks to Dazai.

This is more shipper goggle-y, but I like to believe Atsushi does the same for Dazai. I’ve said over and over again that above all else, Atsushi is Dazai’s proof that he is being good. I also like to think that Atsushi, in a way, is a ray of light for Dazai to follow. He’s selfless (although for some reasons that deserve to be readjusted), he’s kind, and he loves life - all life. He’s a sunbeam in action that provides a perfect example for what Dazai could be and is trying to be - and if this light is happy with keeping Dazai close, maybe there’s hope for him after all.

6. What Makes Life Worth Living

Atsushi and Dazai are opposites in once major aspect: Atsushi has a sort of reverence for life, whereas Dazai craves to escape it. These are two major points of their characters - but here’s the kicker. Dazai wants to get close to human emotion. He wants to understand what makes life worth living. Atsushi is quite possibly the strongest candidate to show him what he can do and how loving life can help. I’m not saying that Atsushi is Dazais’ fix-it-all elixir, but he has a good chance to gently prod at Dazai and get him thinking.

Atsushi can show Dazai what makes life worth living. And that’s something that I think would do Dazai a world of good.

7. Can I Change for the Better?

ATSUSHI! INSISTS! DAZAI! IS! GOOD! I will not ever diminish this point because it is so important! Dazai seems to have it in his head that his blood is mafia black, that he can play the charade of a good man but will never be more than an actor playing a part. Atsushi, though - Atsushi is constantly telling him that he is good. Atsushi, who probably couldn’t keep up a lie for that long because the poor boy has zero tact. Dazai even asks Atsushi frequently if he’s a good person, and Atsushi always says yes. Atsushi gives Dazai what he needs to hear.

Atsushi, however, has his own issues. He has his own trauma to tackle, and his own bad habits to reform to become a better person. Atsushi isn't’ a bad person, but he also isn’t the best version of himself. Dazai can help him become that. Dazai can give him the guidance he needs, as he did with sorting through his grief surrounding the headmaster. Dazai can help Atsushi start the battle against his past, and he has been there with him every step of the way, whether in body or spirit. They help each other be better.

8. I Trust You With What I Love Most

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again - the toast they added to the end of season 3 is one of the most tender moments Dazai has ever had with anybody. One thing Dazai never does is let people in on his past - not past the necessary details, anyway, and especially not the intimate moments he holds in his heart. But sharing that toast with Atsushi - inviting him in to the toast he shared with Oda and Ango, “To the stray dogs,” - it’s one of his most vulnerable times on screen. I don’t care what you say. Dazai deliberately letting Atsushi in, giving him this tiny piece of his past he’s had tucked away in a safe place - that was him offering up a piece of his heart. I’m soft just thinking about it again.

Other than that, Dazai has an enormous faith in Atsushi. He’s built entire plans trusting that Atsushi will do his job perfectly the way it needs to be done. Hell, towards the end of the Guild arc, it was his faith in Atsushi to bring the doll down to him that convinced Twain they were beat. Not to mention, Dazai has trusted Atsushi enough to form a new partnership without him in order to protect the city - and if that’s not one of the most blatant displays of trust and faith you’ve seen, I don’t know what is.

9. There’s a Softness Within Me I Didn’t Know I Had

Another thing that’s good for Dazai - Atsushi is comfortable. Dazai can let his guard down, just a tiny bit, around Atsushi, There was the graveyard scene in Dead Apple, or the toast scene at the end of season 3 - those are moments where Atsushi has given himself a moment to relax and show Atsushi how proud he is. This kind of emotion, this vulnerability that says ‘I’ve been hoping you’d pull through and look at how amazing you’ve become’ - there’s a softness that holds that Dazai doesn’t hold for anybody else. It’s a gentleness or pride, of trust, of somebody becoming more than you could ever imagine and coming back to you, even thanking you - it’s a sensation nobody else has given Dazai, because nobody else has been a protege as trustworthy and gentle as Atsushi.

(and, believe me, there’s a hundred other examples of the softness in the anime, manga, official art, and so much more. here’s a thread that you can still add to if you want)

Atsushi is also soft with Dazai. He wants to make him proud, sure, but there isn’t any fear once their job is done. Atsushi doesn’t have to fear horrible repercussions if he makes one misstep - Dazai allows him to learn, to grow, and to feel however he seems fit (or, it’s a skill he’s improving at as the series goes on.)

They give each other a safety to feel vulnerable. They are comfortable to each other. And, of course, they have a special softness for the other that they do not hold for anybody else.

10. My Mistakes are the Cracks You Have a Knack for Fixing

Again, Atsushi is always there to reassure Dazai that he can be a good man. One part of this is that he insist that Dazai’s past doesn’t have to affect his future. He’s one of the only people who tells Dazai that he doesn’t hold him accountable for what he’s done before - he’s Dazai-san now, and that’s what matters to Atsushi. Atsushi gives Dazai the most space to fix these mistakes, to move past them, and to learn from them, not holding them against him at all.

In the same way Atsushi is Dazai’s proof that he’s being a good man, he is also Dazai’s proof that he can fix the mistakes he made. (Of course, I’m not excusing the way he strings anybody along - but the first step to fixing a mistake is admitting you have made one and working on yourself, and that’s what Atsushi allows him to do.)

In conclusion, I think Dazatsu is so soft and amazing because it’s about the healing and acceptance. BSD is all about gray morality, and dazatsu is a soft ship that can take each other’s bad and accept them. It’s not only about seeing the darkest side of somebody - it’s about accepting those flaws but also giving them space to grow. They grow and they learn and they heal together. They ensure that the other never has to go through a drastic change alone. In a way, they can be home for the other, a refuge from the shitty cards life has dealt them and a steady lifeline to reach for a better tomorrow. That’s why I love dazatsu - because I can’t see another situation with nearly as much love and trust as they have. They are tender, they can be vulnerable, and they can heal.

Like the beautiful sunset hours the met in, they celebrated in, they console each other in, they allow the other to turn the page on their past and start anew, with a clean canvas for a dazzling display that they can make together.

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transsexualhamlet · 4 years

Text

asmr i psychoanalyze my favorite war criminal, aka calling out norman the essay

basically all of my thoughts on norman on one callout post because i care him (both manga and anime are discussed)

LINK TO RAY PSYCHOANALYSIS: https://chaoticgaymess.tumblr.com/post/646749875570196480/ray-81194-the-long-explanation

this is going to be ungodly long so here’s a keep reading, essay below the cut

((tw for suicidal ideation and self harm, brief discussion of eating disorders))

Disclaimer: no shipping is included here this is just about norman also they’re kids who call each other siblings

Thoughts: So you may be thinking, Rowan, why do you yell about the colorless war criminal so often? Well the answer lies in your honor the court hates to see a girlboss winning. Norman is a girlboss :) Yes norman is a tiny twink who can't lift a milk jug. And he is a girlboss :) Obviously I don't condone, um, eugenics and all, but that's not the point the point is that he satisfies my need for more characters like Levi motherfucking Calder from Unwind because I’m apparently an edgy 13 year old. Also all of his problems are violently things I can fix and I keep him around as a pet project because someone needs to give him a hug and slap him on the face

I diagnose him with things:

-pisces man :pensive:

-is he albino? Not literally. Is his skin so pale he would catch fire if he went outside at noon? Yes.

-autism: Yes I’m aware that calling him autistic makes him, problematic rep by perpetuating the autism unfeeling savant stereotype whatever but have you considered i’m autistic and I’m projecting also he’s L with standards? Anyway traits of AuTism he has: hyper fixation, canonically breaks and fixes things over and over because like ofc he does, doesn’t understand Emotion, hyperaware of body language at the same time as it all somehow flying over his head, low empathy, sensory experiences™, min maxed in certain areas, and I don’t think he’s got social interaction quite right? There’s something off about it

-gifted kid (derogatory) This is self explanatory but basically him being the smartest and the best in a competitive environment caused most of his issues, such as the perfectionism, the need to succeed, the lack of self esteem and ridiculously high expectations on himself, giving himself no breaks or time to relax, the “i must be productive with every second of my day or i will die” deal, the “peaked at 11” thing, the way in which he goes through life like there’s going to be a fucking test on it

-Eldest Daughter™ lmao. Norman’s always had to be mature, he’s always had to be the best, he’s always had to do the things Ray got out of bc he’s a snitch and Emma got out of because Isabella likes her. Norman gets respect from Isabella only if he excels, and her bar for him is astronomical. He doesn’t have the Mommy Issues that Ray has, but it’s because for him Isabella basically just reflected his expectations on himself, whereas with Ray it was more personal.

-low empathy (part of the autism thing): this one needs more explanation, but it’s not a bad thing in and of itself. Cognitive empathy is a thing and he can use it, but he does not instinctively understand other people’s emotions, or even recognize them properly, especially when the person is not like himself. This is obvious in Emma. Man has no fucking clue what’s going on in her head or why she does what she does, but he can predict what she will do in any given situation very well. He could understand the suicide attempt from ray he predicted more because Ray’s an easier equation to solve, and someone who’s more similar to him. I know he gets it because, well, motherfucker’s just as self desctructive as him, just in a more dignified manner.

-he’s got some sort of chronic illness. This is also me projecting and a headcanon but he’s got something going on, even before lambda pumped him full of growth hormones or whatever which they maybe should have Not Done but oh well. (I assume this just didn’t happen in the anime, since he’s still so fucking short) But he's So weak. He passed out when it was too hot. He passed out when it was too cold. He can’t open a pickle jar. His skin is too pale and he’s skinny af. He’s much more prone to sickness and probably has asthma too? But in the case that he did actually have something going on, I don’t think grace field would see the need to treat it, if it didn’t impact the quality of his meat? Isabella’s probably just “you have chronic pain and you get migraines? Great, take some tylenol and do some calculus.” Can’t say that probably helped anything.

personality type: ISTJ

Basically, he’s the most boring personality type to exist, and personally as an enfp i do not respect him. But basically this means he’s a fucking nerd that gets his projects done for school the day they’re assigned, is probably the president of the Anime Student Council™, and could probably get away with premeditated murder (ok actual istjs this is a joke don’t skin me)

The only trait that norman doesn’t have on the istj thing is telling the truth. Yeah, he values the truth, but like, that doesn’t apply to him, clearly. Bitch is a notorious liar.

The only other personality type he has any similarity with is intj, which is the same except it’s more rare and a purple theme instead of a blue theme. Sadly, that’s not him though, because although he can care more about some kinds of philosophy overall this isn’t the case and ray already occupies this personality type tbh.

strengths and weaknesses: This one’s kind of obvious, but he is aside from the crazy insane intelligence good at planning. Extremely good at planning. He can predict any outcome and figure out how to prevent it, using all his resources. For example he’s physically weak and someone could literally just walk up and stab him, but it doesn’t impede his progress on his goals because he’s surrounded himself with strong, mentally inferior people who would die for him in a heartbeat. He never gets stuck in some “everything is shit and i can’t do anything” deal like Emma and Ray do, he always works through it and has confidence in his abilities (in as much as he will solve the problem or die™. Weaknesses other than his twink body include his Low Wisdom score. It’s funny how he’s often associated with an owl, the mans is 14. He thinks he knows what he’s doing. He doesn’t. Plus obviously his fundamental misunderstanding of so much of everything going on around him, the fact that he lies not just to the world but himself, his refusal to take care of himself and his incredible cowardice. His achilles heel is being forced to, actually confront his actions.

what he likes about himself: He does pride himself on his mental abilities, and his judgement, which in his opinion is the only correct opinion and the only correct way. In the past, he likes being seen as a leader, he likes being responsible for other people. He likes his ability to manipulate and lie, because he sees it as an asset, and I honestly think he enjoys being william minerva more than he enjoys being Norman. He prides himself on his unhealthy expectations and the fact that he is able to meet them. Honestly, he does think he’s better than everyone else, mentally, though it’s humbled by his self hatred. Cursed thought: If Norman had self esteem he would be light yagami.

what he doesn’t like about himself/insecurities: Oh god, nearly everything. His appearance, his status, his superiority, his physical inability, his own mess of a mind, also have I mentioned his appearance. He’s obsessed with self control. He wants everything he sees wrong with himself gone. And I understand why having control of everything is necessary and appealing, everything for him has always been rigid and planned out from moment one, he was even more regulated in lambda, and though he desperately wants to Not Be Food, he has no idea what to do with the chains now that he’s broken out of them. So he just wraps them around himself. Regulates to an unhealthy degree when he sleeps, what he eats, when he actually takes even minimal care of his own problems, what he looks like, how much of himself he lets show, the expressions on his face, the literal thoughts inside his own head he will shut down if they are not Correct. It’s literal self harm. Norman, please stop it.

motivations/goals in life/general philosophy: To be honest, I’m not sure he knows what he wants. He sure thinks he does, he could sure give you a memorized answer, but it means nothing. He wants to excel. He wants Emma to be happy. He wants to be perfect and for that to make everything perfect. But he doesn’t realize everything he’s working towards will do pretty much the opposite of that. He’s a crippling perfectionist, and pretty much everything he does is motivated by his fear of failing. He picks the certain path, he doesn’t wait for anyone else, he doesn’t care if it’s not nice. Emma foils that a most of the time because he cares about her, but it can only go so far, especially after he’s had so much time without her to develop a Complex. His philosophy is very contradictory, basically the tokyo ghoul “everything bad that happens to you stems from a lack of ability”. All of his problems are his fault. All the world’s problems are his to fix. If he can’t fix them, it’s his fault, it’s because he wasn’t strong enough, and not being perfect condemns someone forever, including himself.

how he’s perceived by others vs how he actually is: In most people there wouldn’t truly be much of a difference, but with Norman things are different, because, well, most of his personality in grace field is a put on, as well as the tough guy dictator thing he radiates after lambda. How he appears to someone is determined by the context of their meeting- the kids at grace field see him as a nerdy, weakish, pretty boring kid who is really caring and kind. The researchers at lambda see an obedient, beaten down and perfectionistic boy. The lambda kids see him as an infallible leader, ruthless and genius, a good man who knows what’s right. But in truth none of that is him. It’s a fucking chess game to him, putting on different faces, lying and pretending and treating everyone differently. In truth? He’s a fucking coward. He’s scared out of his mind and he’s tired and he can’t take pain, he’s obsessed with reaching some goal he deems is necessary that in the end is going to be his death because he doesn’t want to face the consequences of his actions. He’s taken on the role of someone evil, though deep down he’s not, he feels it’s easier to live that way because it strips him of his conscience.

interpersonal relationships: In general, Norman sees all relationships in a pretty dim light. He sees everyone as black and white, for the most part, and other people make no sense to him intuitively, he has to figure them out like a puzzle. He’s manipulative and not particularly kind, but he follows all societal expectations to a T, overly focused on his appearance and placing the person he’s interacting with into a Category™. So he can be truly kind, to people he feels deserve it, to people who he values and doesn’t see flaws in. He gets incredibly attached to people he loves, protective, though he often doesn’t take their own feelings on the matter into consideration, and he’s ruthless with anyone who he deems a bad person. With people he understands and relates to, though, things can be different. If he sees someone as like himself, he will drop all the social interaction police bullshit and cut to the chase of whatever he wants or needs from them, and he’s not very forgiving in any manner, if he thinks what someone did is actually bad.

Emma: Norman obviously cares a lot about Emma, and honestly views her as better than anyone else. He realizes her moral integrity and all of the things she has and he doesn’t, and admires it. Because of his black and white view, Emma is like an angel to him. She couldn’t do anything wrong if she tried. But he comes to treat her as something to be protected instead of respected, and although he realizes she wouldn’t like what he’s doing, he fundamentally cannot empathize with her and doesn’t try to understand her. Their personalities are very literally opposite. Norman really needs to fucking listen to her. And Emma needs to understand that Norman doesn’t have a single ounce of empathy and you really do need to spell it out for him. Emma can only convince him when she has logical reasons for her actions, which she, doesn’t often have. And Emma gave Norman too much slack, because she didn’t see past the surface, and Ray never wanted to warn her, even though he knew the dude was showing a bunch of red flags, because you know. It was kind of an unspoken deal between them. (on ray’s part)

Ray: His relationship with Ray is a lot more complicated than with Emma. He understands Ray, where he doesn’t understand Emma, and he can see right through anything Ray does. And this makes things really tense between them, because Ray doesn’t, take kindly to being psychoanalyzed. If someone perceives him he will deck them and Norman is just there silently perceiving him at all times when Emma doesn’t see it. They are both constantly in competition with each other, but they care about each other a lot, though it’s kind of in a derogatory way. They both recognize each other as fundamentally fucked up, and silently agree never to bring it up with Emma. They’re nice to each other when she’s around, but all pretenses disappear when she’s gone. Ray is always frustrated with Norman, because Norman’s never been intimidated by him, and though he tries his best not to be vulnerable around him, Norman can always see through it, whereas Ray can’t crack Norman’s fake fucking smile no matter what he does. Norman will always take Emma’s side, and doesn’t see Ray as a good person at all, but he still understands and can excuse him, he takes measures to be… worse than Ray, which is better in his mind, because it’s rational, and ‘not selfish’.

Isabella: She has always had ridiculously high expectations for Norman, and treats him kind of harshly compared to the others. Bitch has heat stroke and Isabella’s first question is a calculus problem instead of like, “are you ok”. She knows he doesn’t complain about anything ever and she doesn’t stop him from being Terrible to himself, because it makes her job easier. They want smart kids, not mentally adjusted kids. She does really care for all of them, but she basically overrides it, she gives them what they want, not what they need, lets them be exactly what they’re making themselves. Isabella is distant with Ray but gives him anything he wants, she’s close and super nice with Emma, but Norman is… it’s weird. Isabella is proud of him because he meets her astronomically high bar. But at the same time, Norman never really cared for her that much and has never pretended to. Once they discover The Thing, though, he has a revelation, and it doesn’t take him long to switch his entire perspective about her. He’s pretty much like. Oh. She’s like me. That explains it, time to treat her like I treat myself: fucking brutally. Passive aggressive as hell. The kind of energy the :) emoticon at the end of an email gives. He does like just go “yeah we should kill her” at one point, which. You know, ok. When he got shipped out it was hhhh really interesting because Isabella knew full well he knew he was walking to his death and Norman was like “are you Truly Happy?” and just went :) and she was like h u h and tried to get him to talk while they were walking there because she feels Bad about it and he just. Did not. He didn’t say a single word just kind of smiled menacingly at her and I think it was half a sort of rebellion and half because he viewed her as similar to himself and therefore felt no need to put up any front with her, no words were necessary for him to impart exactly how he felt about it

Lambda kids: His relationship with the lambda kids is weird and bittersweet. I think he really truly does care about them, they were in a similar situation to his and he wants them to get what they want. However it is not a healthy or beneficial relationship, they see him as a god and don’t realize that he’s killing himself to give them what they want, he’s basically adopted them when out of anyone norman’s the one that should least be in charge of kids. I think he’s honestly younger than them but I’m not sure if they even know. He acts like their fucking mom, and that’s from what he thinks mothers are like… like isabella?? Giving them what they want, not what they need, lying to them, showing a front, caring deeply for them but at the same time using them for his own ends. And it’s not helpful for him. He thinks he knows what they need, but what he’s doing is what they want. What they need is therapy,(and so does norman), and he doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with using them as weapons because they love him. It makes him feel good, to be seen as perfect, to have people who don’t know how weak he really is. But it’s only making him worse, and he’s enabling everything the lambda kids are doing wrong as well. They need like, Yuugo and Lucas. Some actual adults who are actually wise and have the ability and the knowledge to take care of them and understand their mental problems and maybe actually address them. And actually be nice to them. But um sadly.

what he’s doing wrong: It’s pretty obvious, but… Norman, you maybe *shouldn’t* commit genocide? You’re not helping emma, you’re not making anything better. You’re not helping the lambda kids, you’re enabling them. You’re not helping your friends from grace field, you’re ignoring what they want. You’re not helping the world, you’re eradicating an entire race from the face of the earth and murdering the poor for the crimes of the fucking 1%. You’re not being a martyr, you’re a selfish piece of shit liar you little coward, you just want an easy way out and you want to die on your bloody fucking hill instead of admitting you’re wrong. Grow up, cringe little man.

why he went wrong: I think most of the reason this happened was the way he was raised combined with the kind of person he is. Norman would have turned out fine, if there has been good adults in his life who actually cared about his well being. Instead he got people who just wanted to control him and make him what they needed, and family who largely didn’t realize there was anything wrong. Ray being an ass to him most of forever probably didn’t help but well, that’s just Ray. Even then, he would have managed alright if he escaped with the rest of the kids because he would never have been separated from the experiences that caused the rest of them to realize demons weren’t all evil. In lambda he didn’t have anyone supporting him or telling him when things went too far, so he fell into relying on himself alone, pushing himself further with absolutely no limits. All he saw was enemies and allies, and things got stratified. He never had a lucas or a yuugo or mujika when he would have needed it, instead he found children who wanted him to be in charge and a world that made it so he had to be. Everything was an echo chamber for his worst thoughts, so they just became more and more dominant.

what he needs: To put it simply, he needs Emma and Ray to cut to the chase and slap him across the face and make him take care of himself. He needs to be forced to see everything for what it really is- this edgy 14 year old committing atrocities to feel better about himself? He needs to be told that what he’s doing is irrational, because in reality, it is. There are better solutions that he’s ignoring, both to his own suffering and the demons, and the way he’s going now no one will truly be happy because of it, that there is no requirement that things be perfect and this bullshit doesn’t make him stronger. He needs someone responsible to take the fucking dagger out of his hands. He also needs someone to babysit him and make him go to bed at a reasonable time.

i describe his personality through songs on my spotify playlist for him:

-outrunning karma by alec benjamin: this one super applies because it calls him out for making shitty decisions, being manipulative and a liar, and having blood on his hands in a very calm and subdued manner, that he knows this is wrong and yet he chooses to keep running faster and faster towards destruction, that he means to escape it through death

-empty by boyinaband and jaiden: yes this is a song about anorexia yes it also applies to norman i’m not saying norman literally has an eating disorder (but honestly it wouldn’t be far out of character if he did) but metaphorically this applies to his method of ignoring his needs, both emotional and physical, in favor of seeming in control

-toxic thoughts by faith marie: this one speaks to his gifted kid trauma. Man’s got perfectionism running his entire soul. He’s terrified of failing, because he’s always been at the very top, he’ll beat himself up over any miniscule mistake and forces himself to keep at bad habits that keep him Productive, but he won’t ask for help no matter how much he’s suffering because that would be failing, he fights with his mind, this song basically tells him “yeah i feel you but you need to stop that”

-no time to die by billie eilish: ignore the romantic overtones but this is emma and norman, emma who trusted norman and was lied to, betrayed, for norman’s greater good, and norman who refuses to feel or hurt because of it, who refuses to apologize or see himself as wrong, pushes forward because he’s going to Pass Away

-achilles come down by gang of youths: hhhhh it's like. His vibe. Obviously you can disregard the lifestyle specific shit but it's. It's achilles come down you have to understand it’s like the same deal as friend, please just like french and longer

-friend, please by 21 pilots: i feel like i don't have to explain this one but it’s more to the manga (not the anime where he kind of figures out he done did wrong by himself instead of committing unforgivable sins and still going yeah this is valid before emma is like holy fuck). He is like sorry emma I cannot fix anything I’m going to die :) *coughs blood* and emma going like stop it stop it stop it fuck you see you fucked up and i forgive you just stop don’t walk away while he’s like “no<3”

why im a repressed little norman kinnie even tho he’s my exact opposite: I don’t generally kin ppl like norman, honestly he’s an infj I have no clue how it happened but I’m pretty sure it’s because of my intense desire to project onto a little man who cannot lift a milk jug and has chronic pain and decides you know what I AM tired of being nice i DO wanna go apeshit. Also he’s a twink. A little bastard. He’s a terrible person and I go mood every time he does anything. I said mood when he fell out of a tree. Don’t know what this says about me, I swear I wouldn’t commit no genocide. He’s like the inverse of Yoichi Saotome, and somehow i kin him too. Damn.

Miscellaneous headcanons:

-man’s SO attached to his william minerva cloak. He’s a wispy little bitch, you know he’s wearing that thing inside the house, he’s fucking cold. It also makes him Look Important he can retreat into it like an emo middle schooler with an oversized sweatshirt

-although you could probably get Mad street cred from having two whole brands you know he’s not gonna whip it out and show off his lambda thing he’s incredibly self conscious and his chest hasn’t seen the sun in years

-norman’s got MAD laundry skills to be able to wear like, all white all the time while constantly murdering people. I think he’s the only one who knows to do the laundry. And Ray is the only one who knows how to cook.

-but even then there’s gotta still be a few questionable stains on that thing, but if anyone asks he’s like “ketchup” “I’ve literally never seen you eat anything with that much color” “ketchup :)” *coughs blood*

-he’s probably thought “well i have not literally coughed blood yet today so I am not legally obligated to take care of myself”

-He probably adopted much of his current personality from taking on the persona of william minerva. I’m calling him out for being like me, he’s a blank motherfucker, he absorbs personality traits from characters he plays! He’s just not in theatre so it’s a bit more intense!

-the first time he sees barbara Eating Demon Meat he kinda stares and goes oh cool! not for me and violently exits the room. Like it's hilarious bc he thinks that's really gross on a moral level though he understands why she would do it

-Which is even funnier bc I’m not sure about the canon on this but there was That Chapter Cover that one time that kinda seemed to imply norman eating demon meat which i absolutely latched onto because I’m terrible. He was just politely eating it. With a knife and fork like why dude. As to a possible reason for him doing that I can come up with, of course barbara does it out of spite, but man we don’t know the properties, if it had some sort of painkilling aspect to it or it was like, caffeine, you know he would, but he would Definitely not talk about it

-I kinda disagree with what the anime did in episode eight? It was good I liked it and the imagery was fantastic but also have you considered Norman could not kill someone with his own hands if he tried, or even physically injure them? That’s what his minions are for shawty. That doesn’t make it any less bad, of course, but the manga captured it perfectly by the fact of he carries around a dagger and a scepter in the capitol battle, but he never even raises it out of more than intimidation. He walks through calmly like he’s not scared at all but he makes sure all the lambda kids do all the actual murder, he just stands there impartially, clearly The Mastermind, as the kids fucking murder the queen of the demons. And I think that’s more profound because he’s, a coward. And he doesn’t realize being the one who orders the strike makes you just as responsible as the one who sticks the knife in someone. The knife is just there to Compensate™ for the fact that he weighs like eighty pounds.

-he’s more of like lady macbeth (because he’s a girlboss) than macbeth himself. He has blood on his hands, but it’s the kind of blood that you can’t wash off. He never killed anyone himself, and he cannot admit he never would have been able to.

-the last thing is that there are definitely epic things about the anime, episode 8 was my favorite so far, goddamn that imagery and the bitch walking through the city while it burns down with the screaming asmr going on behind him my god. We stan. But like the downside of, letting Emma and Ray get to him before he commits first degree murder makes the whole thing lose a lot of his value. In the manga (oh my god look at me being a pretentious manga fan please) it fit more of his ideas- he never backed down, and he planned for Emma coming and trying to stop him. Of course he wanted Emma to stop him, he wanted it with all his fucking heart he was pleading for it to happen but the man wouldn’t give himself what he wanted if he was held at gunpoint. He knew she’d come and he made absolutely sure she wouldn’t be able to stop him. So when she came and he said “you’re too late”??? It kind of said it all, in the fact that he was disappointed that he got his way. He still thought he did the right thing, but deep down there where he shoved all his thoughts and feelings he desperately wanted to be saved from himself.

So yeah, those are my thoughts. Feel free to eviscerate me if these are not Correct he is just my favorite girlboss who I feel the need to yell at

#tpn #the promised neverland #yakusoku no neverland #tpn norman #norman tpn #essay post #god why do i do this to myself #dear god help me this is 5000 words #rowan's hyperfixation essays

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incorrectlumityquotes · 4 years

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Frilda, My Toy Ship

Now before anyone freaks out let my start by saying that TV Tropes defines a toy ship as:

Which I don’t normally do because I don’t watch a lot of shows that have actual little children in them. I think it’s weird, but that’s for another time. Normally the characters I ship are teens or adults, but they’re all animated and you know fictional so it really doesn’t matter. But this time I had to stop and go, “Huh, that’s actually quite nice.”

Even though this is a lumity blog, I’m not saying this ship is like lumity. There are some similarities but there are a good share of differences. My main point is that Netflix’s Hilda is underrated and should be appreciated. And if you want a network to like a show as much as you do, get those numbers up. Keep watching and re-watching The Owl House on Disney Plus+ and watch Hilda on Netflix a few times. I’m confident you’ll enjoy it. Why?

Here’s why:

First off, what is Hilda?

Hilda is a British-Canadian animated television series based on the graphic novel series of the same name by Luke Pearson. Produced by Silvergate Media and Mercury Filmworks, the series follows the adventures of fearless Hilda, a blue-haired girl who, along with her deerfox Twig, moves to the city of Trolberg, where she befriends even the most dangerous monsters. The series debuted on 21 September 2018 as a Netflix exclusive to overwhelming critical acclaim. Yes, I just copied that from Wikipedia. Shut up.

I personally love the show. The characters are charming. The animation and color pallet are so easy on the eyes that you can just stare at the show. The music is nice, and the stories are fun. And while I would not call this an action show, it is definitely an adventure show.

But you’re not here for a review; you’re here for a ship.

Frilda, who and why?

Hilda is, obviously, the main protagonist and Frida being one of her best friends. I’m going to try to be as spoiler free as I can but there will be light spoilers for context so you can understand what I’m talking about.

Hilda is a young girl (around the 9-12 age) who grew up with her mom in a cabin out in the wilderness, miles away from other humans. She spent her days exploring the wild and having adventures with her deerfox, Twig. But when plot related things happen, her mom decides that they need to move into the city. Hilda doesn’t want to but when the plot literally stomps its way in, they have no choice.

Hilda isn’t very good at getting used to the city until her mom signs her up for the Sparrow Scouts, a scouting and camping group that Hilda’s mother was a part of growing up. There she meets the other half of our ship, Frida.

Frida grew up in the city of Trollberg with her parents. If you’ve watched as many cartoons as I have you’ll recognize this character type. She’s very smart and is the overachiever. She’s always trying to be perfect, tidy and spot on. She admits that she wanted Hilda in her group because helping a new kid earns you more points in the Sparrow Scouts. Yay?

You would think that this means that they’re opposites and their personalities immediately clash and Hilda has to learn to be more tidy and Frida has to learn to be more loose and fun. Hilda is street-smart and Frida is book-smart. All that jazz.

But none of that happens.

Yes Hilda is very outgoing and a bit more laid back, but she is adventurer. Hilda needs to be physically doing something. Frida at the same time need to be accomplishing something. She needs to be fulfilling a goal, getting that badge, crossing some finish line. But you can’t accomplish anything without action.

The best metaphor I can give for this ship is that Hilda focuses on the process while Frida focuses on the outcome. They both still have the same goals, and they both are still girls of action.

Frilda, who and why?

So yes the characters are charming and are canonically good friends. So why ship them? Well (aside from the fact that I can’t help myself and always have to ship something from every franchise I come across)...

Like most ships that probably will never be canon, there so many little moments in the show the push towards something a little deeper than friendship. Bits and pieces that show that they think of each other as more than friends. I would like to list them, but that’s a chore by itself and I think you should watch it yourself on Netflix anyway.

But one of my favorites is even when they are mad at each other and arguing, Frida calls Hilda “the cool wilderness girl.” Show her what you really think. 😏

I’ve always argued that the best ships are not “opposites that attract” but “compliments that complete each other.” That sounds like the same thing but it’s not. If Hilda and Frida were opposites, Hilda would be an adventurer and Frida would stay home all day and hate adventures. Frida and Hilda (like all good ships) are compliments. Frida thinks of a plan and Hilda carries out that plan.

Theme Song

“Witch’s Wand” by SLOAN

I was told that people don’t do this anymore, but I love picking theme songs and making playlists for my ship. While I don’t have a playlist for this ship, there was a song in the second season that is really good. Don’t worry about spoilers. You won’t understand without context.

Thanks for reading my shipping manifesto for Frilda. Feel free to let me know what you think and since I had a lot of fun doing this let me know if you wouldn’t mind reading another for one of my other favorite ships. Stay safe and watch your favorite shows on repeat or they might be cancelled.

#not lumity #hilda #hilda the series #hilda netflix #frilda #frida

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the-ghost-king · 4 years

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There was a post I wanted to reblog and respond to, but I'm not sure how op would have liked that so here's my in depth character analysis on Will and Nico (it's not actually that in depth):

It depends on how you headcanon the characters outside of that aspect as well though...

For example I do headcanon them with a decent height difference but if I'm extremely extremely oversimplifying my thoughts on them, Nico is the protector.

Will being so large gives him depth- he's going to be scared of being too strong and of breaking the things he loves. (Kind of like Frank?)

He's always been extremely kind, and not exactly the most masculine- he likes flowers, and cries when birds fall out of trees, those silly childhood "dog's life's" movies never failed to make him cry, he's canonically a worrier, he just wants to help people and save lives- he's the type of person who sometimes cries himself to sleep because the world is so twisted and cruel and he doesn't understand why people just can't be kind. Will "see's the world for what it could be rather than what it is" (if you want me to compare him to another YA character I would give you Dante Quintana)

Nico on the other hand, he was never allowed to cry or to show emotion- stiff that lip, don't let the tears fall- he was trained for war from the day he was born, his emotions can be shut off from the trauma of his life. He picks up that fallen bird and buries it out of a sense of duty and respect, but he doesn't cry any tears or think too hard about it. He doesn't spend much time thinking about "what ifs" unless they're necessary, he's worried about making sure everyone is safe and cared for rather than why people are cruel- he's accepted that people are generally cruel. Nico see's the world through tinted glasses, everything is a little messed up and he's got to fight so he doesn't end up messed up too.

Nico never had anyone to look out for him, and he was always perceived as small and weak- an easy defenseless target- he had to learn how to fight and how to fight good.

Will tries not to cry over little kids skinning their knee, and he grows angry when he hears about injustice across the globe, cries for all the poor children who will suffer and tries to give up his whole paycheck. His sole purpose in life is to build and repair, he couldn't destroy anything if he tried. Nico picks that little kid up, brushes off their knee and sends them off with a bandaid if they need one, he has to keep Will from spending his whole check and remind him that they'll be in a bad situation and won't have food for themselves if they give away their money- Nico is constantly shocked at how much Will tries to help others, because Nico accepted suffering as something that just happened.

In the face of adversity Will constantly rises to the struggle, and tries to just be good and kind (a real Patroclus type). Nico makes the right choice too, but he takes a more logical and calculating approach- Nico likes the element of suprise ("let's turn this tide!") he keeps his cards close to his chest so nobody knows what he's doing until the last minute. Will being tall is the perfect ploy in their relationship. People will expect Will to be dominat and commanding (he isn't at all unless someone is in danger), so when they see Nico they still don't expect anything- Will isn't paying attention and they think "huh- easy target?" only for Nico to swoop in at the last minute and save Will.

Nico is the one who has to wipe up Will's tears and wrap him in a weighted blanket because Will's worried about climate change, and that bill proposed by Congress, and how they're upping the price of insulin again- Will's lost everything and everyone and worries about it happening again. Nico doesn't worry about insulin prices or the famine in the same way Will does, he gives them money sure- he's got it and they need it- but that emotional connection never existed.. Nico lost everyone and when he thinks about loosing more people he does worry about it and it hurts, but he thinks "I've lived through worse"

They're too perfectly opposing ends of the same bridge- you can divide them any way and see equal parts similarities and differences. Their life experiences have led them to the same morals, same goals, and same wants- but the adversity in their life's have changed them to polar opposites in how they reach these conclusions and why.

Will is kind simply because he doesn't have a mean bone in his body, Nico is kind because he wants to be better than everyone who came before and said he couldn't. Both of them are the same level of kind but Nico had to learn that kindness because to him it wasn't a given, Nico had to choose to be the person nobody ever was for him. Will was kind the day he was born, and he works on the idea of self improvement- if he has a bad thought he analyzes it (and over analyzes it) until it is corrected and he knows the right and kind solution. Nico doesn't have to do this he just chooses the opposite of what people would expect a son of Hades to do, Nico chooses to be the person he wishes he would have had looking out for himself.

None of this means Will can't handle himself though- he lost two brothers and became cabin counselor and is still that kind when he got screwed over just as much as Luke- Will is strong too- just in a different way.

So yes, headcanoning one character as very tall and another as very small can bring up those concepts of "uwu protect me" but that's not everyone's interpretation of why two characters are the way they are- and that's not everyone's only understanding of a relationship model, and some people quite literally turn that concept on its head when they see two characters.

I get it, it was a vent post- that's why I'm not adding to it- because you deserve a space to vent, but you also can't sum up what someone thinks of a specific relationship dynamic just based on how vastly different they make character's heights.

If you want my other reason why Will is tall it's because he's closer to the sun, like Timothy Green or whatever the kids name was and I think it's a funny concept.

... Anyhow, I feel like this is written really poorly but I'm sure some people will enjoy this so I'm posting it anyhow lmao

#solangelo #nico di angelo #will solace #solangelo analysis #solangelo headcanons #nico is more the protector #Nico is like Achilles or Aristotle yeah

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touchmycoat · 3 years

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qijiu bingqiu (bingliushen??) fix-it fic planning blabber

so i think i gotta keep it tight on SJ’s POV. Right before his death, he makes a deal with Xin Mo (who’s kind of a lone operator bc LBH too has to fight its power) to create this alternate timeline in exchange for his cultivation. Xin Mo can open up new dimensions no problem, and with SJ’s cultivation, it even manages to rewind the timeline. That’s not enough though—Xin Mo’s goal is only consumption, so it takes the deal but reveals there’s nothing that will actually change. The price SJ paid only opened the door.

But that’s fine, ‘cause SJ saw it coming. He also strikes another deal, this time with Death itself? Some sort of large cosmic force. The only thing he wants changed is Qi-ge’s death, and in exchange...the universe takes him. SJ will not get to exist in that second universe. SJ takes the deal.

And that’s the start of canon. SJ-as-SQQ can no longer exist. Instead, SY-as-SQQ is brought in. In order to stay cohered though, YQY’s memories and personality get a little glitched—he is physically incapable of recognizing all the ways SQQ is now not SJ. That’s why, despite SY-as-SQQ clearly being OOC, YQY never seems to see it.

Canon happens, now we’re in the post-canon world where bingqiu are married and settling down, but SQQ still kicks it with his buddies LQG and YQY every now and then. YQY still firmly believes SQQ is SJ, to SY’s increasing consternation. Is it just delusions and wishful thinking? The more YQY treats him as SJ though, the worse SY feels—he shouldn’t be stealing all this affection that doesn’t belong to him.

It all comes to head when SQQ overhears public opinion on YQY, how he’s perfect in everything but his crazy devotion to SQQ. SY thinks enough is enough. He can’t bring SJ back but he sure can tell YQY that his Xiao Jiu is dead, right? The System warns him he’ll be punished but that’s fine, it’s just not fair, SQQ can take another little mental horror trip down to BinggeLand if it means YQY can have some closure.

Except that’s not what happens. He gets YQY in private and says, “no, you don’t understand, Shen Jiu is dead.” He sees the recognition in YQY’s eyes, but he also sees the moment that recognition gets wiped. The sad smile that had fallen off of YQY’s face returns, eerily happy, as YQY says, “my apologies, Qingqiu-shidi, I must have spaced out just now, what did you say?”

Right before the System kicks him into another punishment phase, SY tries again: “Shen Jiu is dead!” He sees the recognition disappear once again from YQY’s eyes.

Inside the punishment world, Bingge has him again. “I’ve been searching for an answer to why the sniveling pathetic version of me gets you as his Shizun, and I think I figured it out.” For a moment, SY’s horrified by the possibility that Bingge has figured out his transmigrator status—if his punishment figures it out, would he be trapped inside the punishment forever? But instead, Bingge says, “Liu Qingge is still alive, meaning Shizun didn’t kill him in the spirit caves. Did his survival render such a dramatic change?” SQQ”s like “yup, yup that’s definitely it. We’re such good friends, he really changed my outlook on life, so I treated you better, mhm.”

“Shizun’s very clever then to save his own life this way. Xin Mo’s already told me about your little bargain.”

That’s how SY learns that SJ had made a deal. Holy shit, he’d thought it was just random phenomenon this whole time, but the original goods had made it all possible? He didn’t know whether to thank SJ or curse him.

But that can’t be the whole story—Xin Mo opened up a timeline, that doesn’t explain why SY is here. Bingge doesn’t know this part, but it sure feels like SJ made a second deal, paying with his life.

What would motivate the original goods to do all this? Sacrifice his hard-won cultivation and his entire existence in this last-ditch effort?

The memory of YQY’s glitching came to mind.

Holy shit. SY owns the two of them more than he’d ever thought.

After the punishment, SY goes back home. He’s with Binghe, and LBH can tell there’s something troubling him.

“Binghe, there’s something this husband wants to do, and I need your help to do it.”

“Shizun, anything.”

“...But there’s a risk it might hurt you. There’s a risk it might ruin everything. It might be straight-forward, but it also might not be. It’s safer for all of us—but especially you, Binghe—if I just let things be.”

“But it’s not something that Shizun can just let be, is it? Otherwise Shizun wouldn’t have said anything. Binghe is honored to help. Anything to ease Shizun’s mind.”

“...I promised I wouldn’t let you come to harm again, and I meant that. Whatever happens, remember that I am your husband, this is my call, and you must do whatever you need to do to protect yourself, okay? Swear to me, Binghe.”

SQQ begins figuring out how to use Xin Mo to go fetch SJ from the other timeline. He figures that if Bingge could exist in this dimension without destroying the space-time continuum, the same ought to be true for SJ. Only trouble is, he can only go get SJ after SJ’s made the deals, because otherwise it’s a paradox, and he wouldn’t exist.

So SQQ brings home limbless, post-torture!SJ. That’s where the fic starts.

By all accounts, the deals are squared: SJ no longer has cultivation and SJ died in SY’s dimension, so SY successfully exists. SJ and SY can exist in the same space totally fine, and SJ begins healing.

(Currently, the fic is completely from SJ’s POV, and very much about coming to terms with being saved and what the hell is going on in this better world.)

The trouble is, SY doesn’t know what’s going to happen when SJ meets YQY again. SJ very thoroughly declines the offer to go see YQY because part of SJ still believes this whole thing is a trick, and if he goes to see YQY he’ll ruin his end of the bargain and YQY will die again. For SY’s part, he’s afraid of SJ going to see YQY too for similar but opposite reasons—if SJ going to see YQY ruins SJ’s end of the bargain, then wouldn’t that mean SY can no longer exist? Would SY just disappear from this universe?

So we get ragtag group therapy fun times. SJ thinks this is probably all an illusion Xin Mo is tricking him with, so treats everything with scorn but also existential apathy. This actually works to his benefit because he’s not clinging to things as hard, and it’s easier for him to admit, for example, that he was definitely in the wrong for abusing LBH, and yeah he was being a spiteful bitch when he did not need to be.

SY tries to keep LBH away from SJ mostly, because c’mon, he’s not about to make his darling husband face his childhood abuser. He does explain the situation to LBH though, in the same terms that Bingge had (mis)understood it lmfao—that the act of saving LQG’s life had prompted an entire 180 on his personality so he came out of the spirit caves a better man. LBH’s jealous as fuck of course, but damn if that doesn’t explain some things. Given the opportunity to see his old and new Shizun side-by-side, LBH takes it, and really gets a moment to see how horribly he’s been treated by SQQ.

So it actually prompts some therapy between SY and LBH too. LBH used to figure that getting pushed into the Abyss was squared by SQQ sacrificing himself to save him. But ofc it turned out SQQ came back and kept on, in his perspective, trying to get away from him. Trying to leave him behind. SQQ’s tried to treat his abandonment issues by going “okay sorry about that I’ll never leave you behind again” but he’s never really explained it.

SJ’s presence gives Binghe the ability to ask the question again and gives SY an answer: shame and cowardice. They’re able to put SJ’s mistreatment of Binghe right in front of them and SY-as-SQQ gets to explain how much it hurt to look back on that bit of their past, but also how much he feared LBH's retaliation. LBH is a little hurt, but also he remembers how he’d raped SQQ under Xin Mo’s control and, looking at what’s left of SJ now, he sees his own darkest possibilities. He really did destroy the man he loves now in another timeline. That helps him contextualize SY’s fears and why SY chose to push him off the cliff.

LQG crashlands into the middle of this whole party as is his wont. He gets a little fix-it too maybe. SY very staunchly repeats the reason for his personality swap—saving LQG in that cave made him a Better Person™. Meeting the original goods again, LQG is forced to believe it. Or like, it doesn’t really matter to him either way, but now he really does see pre-cave SQQ and post-cave SQQ as two completely different people.

SJ though, has to swallow this really weird pill. He remembers trying to save LQG inside the cave but failing, and then getting blamed for LQG’s death. If he’d succeeded, he and LQG would’ve become...this close?? A life debt between them would’ve changed his outlook on life so much???

Well whatever. Now that he’s put down all his old posturing, he more readily gives his reasons for why LQG gets on his nerves so much: the insufferable confidence (arrogant prick), the skills to back it up (privileged bastard), and a flawless cultivator family with all the money and the training and the pedigree. (Meanwhile SY’s like “oh shit that’s me too hahahahah awkward, good thing he still thinks i’m him so he doesn’t just murder me immediately.)

LQG’s a little weirded out too. SY-as-SQQ is his favorite person in the world, so it’s hard to get angry at SJ-as-SQQ since they’re “the same person.” He’s more willing to talk all this out with SJ and brings up all their old beef on his side too: high-handed snootiness coupled with underhanded dick moves, also the whole sleeping-with-prostitutes thing hurting Cang Qiong’s reputation. Ofc they’re snapping at each other this whole time. “There’s no reason for you to do all that!”

SY intervenes if needed. “Actually there is.” Considering the fact that SJ gets indicted for so many things that actually turn out to be not his fault, SY figures he’ll just get it out there. “Remember Qiu Haitang’s accusations against me? I grew up a slave in that household. I grew up believing it was kill or be killed—it doesn’t make sabotaging others right, but...that’s why the Spirit Caves made such an impression on me. I learned it wasn’t just kill or be killed, I can also save people. It opened my eyes to everything I already had, and everything I should be grateful for.”

This is for both LQG and SJ. And it works, to some degree. SJ knows he managed to claw to the top of privilege, but he still felt horribly insecure there. That’s because, he realizes, he never got the thing that would actually grant him security. It's not power or money or reputation—it’s Qi-ge. Holy hell he misses Qi-ge. In anger and betrayal, he’d pushed YQY continuously out of his life, but when faced with certain death the only regret he actually had was bringing Qi-ge down with him. YQY was meant to have survived, and in this world, he did.

So now, after all that, SJ really, really wants to go see his Qi-ge. It’s nice to have survived (and gotten part of his power back—at the very beginning, SY gives one of SQQ’s eyes to SJ as a bit of his golden core in order to save SJ’s life), but it’s so damn hard to live on in this world knowing YQY is only so far away, still very deeply attached to Xiao Jiu.

They try to Cyrano it at first. SY-as-SQQ goes to YQY with SJ’s voice in his ear, telling SY how to treat YQY as him. YQY is so fucking touched and hopeful, and SY is damn uncomfortable. He goes running back to SJ and says it’s not going to work—it’s not going to work because he’s no longer Qi-ge’s Xiao Jiu. He’s Luo Binghe’s husband, okay? He can’t go back to YQY as SJ.

SJ’s fucking furious at first (what kind of shitty variation of himself saves LQG’s life and then falls out of love with Qi-ge???? bitch?????) but what can he do? LQG tells them YQY’s on his way here and SJ hides for now. They still don’t know what will happen if SJ meets YQY, so SY continues to front as SJ for now.

But during this conversation, something changes. Maybe YQY says something, but SJ realizes he’s actually a little willing to take this chance. If Qi-ge does disappear—easy, he’d just kill himself right after. He’d already experienced Qi-ge’s death twice before, and at least this time, he can follow, knowing he’s at least reconciled with Qi-ge through SY.

And if he disappears on his own, then at least he knows there’s a world in which Qi-ge does not die horribly. That’s enough for him.

That, however, leaves the very last possibility—that SY will disappear. At this point both LQG and LBH have figured this out, and are very, very reluctant to let this be the scenario. They don’t see it as two people, they see it as their version of SQQ vs. YQY’s version of SQQ.

So there’s a little tension, but in the end, SY gets the final choice. As soon as he learns SJ is willing to go see YQY, he chooses that path. He simply owes qijiu too much to deny them the possibility of reconciliation. So despite knowing he might disappear from Binghe and LQG’s life, he makes it happen.

(They should get a very painful goodbye scene.)

SY goes out to explain things. “Zhangmen-shixiong may have noticed my change since my qi deviation and the spirit caves.” “I’m happy Xiao Jiu has a brighter outlook on life.” “Yes, but I think Qi-ge, of all people, might actually prefer how I was before, right?” “If Xiao Jiu’s happy, I’m happy.” “Yes, but Shen Jiu wants you. Is that alright?” “—of course. I want Xiao Jiu too—”

SJ comes out. Everyone holds their breath.

Scene cut.

It’s said that Cang Qiong’s Sect Leader Yue Qingyuan disappeared suddenly one afternoon...

But jk, YQY just ran away with SJ, they’re recuperating in the mountains and everybody’s fine and it’s a happy ending.

#...nice #that's the whole fic planned then #sv fix-it

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

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Part Four: My thoughts on the effects of these changes on our interpretations of the characters, and some miscellaneous final notes

Intro - Pt 1 - Pt 2 - Pt 3 - Pt 4

Okay, so. That's a list of changes. What kind of effect does it actually have on our interpretation of the characters?

For JGY, it's perhaps more subtle than you'd think. The complaint from JGY stans about FJ I heard most often, prior to watching it, was that JGY involves NHS in his brother's killing—whereas in MDZS, as shown, if anything he functions as NHS' protector. This is definitely obnoxious, but to my eye the worst changes are the perhaps more subtle ones. The JGY of FJ is significantly different from the JGY of MDZS and CQL in two ways: first, he has more options available, and second, without ever making an explicit claim, the text nevertheless sends the strong message that he is /not actually in danger from NMJ/.

What do I mean about more options? To begin with, he teaches NHS the corrupted SoC. This carries some risk of LXC finding out, and a much greater risk of NHS finding out—as, indeed, he does. I don't see how this could plausibly be a risk worth taking for JGY; the narrative's insistence suggests either that he has some way to mitigate that risk, or that he's secure enough he can afford to be so careless. His ability to achieve such strong, immediate affects via musical cultivation, despite his weak cultivation level, adds to the general sense that FJ JGY is much less constrained than MDZS or CQL JGY, as does JGS' complete absence from the narrative; it would be easy to forget that JGY is under any social/political pressure at all, even though this is a constant theme in NMJ and JGY's confrontations in MDZS and CQL, and the pressure and danger from JGS specifically is central to their confrontation at the stairs. The lack of any hint of or history of disrespect to LFZ from the Nie men, given what we see of their interaction in CQL, is yet another example of FJ ignoring the constraints JGY actually has to work with.

And, of course, FJ suggests that he has the option to actually cure NMJ, when the fact that he doesn't is in my opinion central to the morality of the decision, to understanding JGY's character, and indeed to many of the themes of the text. (In fact as a friend pointed out to me it suggests that NHS or indeed anyone could learn the music to cure him, although FJ does not seem to realize the implications of this itself.)

This ties in with point two: that JGY is not actually in danger from NMJ. We never see NMJ attack him—NMJ's violence is reserved for other people. Furthermore, we see him (and later NHS) stop NMJ's violence by the quick application of the uncorrupted SoC; this includes, as I've mentioned in previous sections, a scene where JGY protects NHS from NMJ's anger via cultivation, while in the nearest MDZS scene JGY protects NHS from NMJ's anger very explicitly by being a more appealing target. Watching FJ, it would be very difficult to understand how much danger JGY was actually in, and how much he was a target of NMJ's violence.

Even in CQL, NMJ tries to kill JGY at the stairs, drawing his sabre on him after the stairs kick—and even that first attempted blow, before they exchange words outside, could have caused JGY serious damage. In MDZS, after the stairs—where NMJ would very likely have succeeded in killing JGY if LXC hadn't intervened—though WWX admires JGY's skill in finding the right words to convince NMJ to "give him another chance," JGY is only able to do this by promising he'll do something that would probably get him killed, and then promising NMJ that he can kill JGY if he doesn't do it. Moreover, NMJ ends his own life by kicking down a door to kill JGY on the spot, because he did not like the way he was talking about NMJ to LXC. This is a very, very far cry from anything presented in FJ.

The idea that JGY could actually cure NMJ goes to this as well. NMJ is as violent to JGY as he is because of the sabre curse; JGY's choices are endure this, and hope to survive, or...kill him quicker, and hope to survive. He doesn't actually have a choice that involves not being subject to NMJ's violence. Ignoring this fundamentally changes JGY's character, who is so defined by the constraints under which he suffers, and indeed by the lack of physical security he has until he becomes Jin-zongzhu.

What then about NMJ's character? Honestly I don't even have the words for this; it's a profound insult to his original character. The thing is, it's not just that NMJ doesn't doubt the righteousness of Nie cultivation practices, although he very much does not. It's that NMJ would never do something he secretly thought was unrighteous, never mind /shape his life around it/. If he believed something wasn't righteous, he simply wouldn't do it. This is literally the heart of his conflict with JGY, and it repeats throughout the text again and again.

Further, and less flattering to NMJ: NMJ is absolutely convinced of the righteousness of his own judgement. It's not just that he wouldn't do something he thought in his heart wasn't righteous; he's never the kind of torn he is shown to be in FJ, and he never doubts his own judgement. When NHS challenges him here on whether he's qualified to decide the fate of evildoers, who are after all still evil, part of him clearly thinks NHS has a point. But NMJ absolutely, one hundred percent believes in his right to play—if you'll pardon the phrase—judge, jury, and executioner. It's not just JGY, although it very much is, also, JGY; at no point does he seem to believe anything but that he has the absolute right to kill JGY if he decides to. Indeed, some of his worst violence to JGY is a result of JGY challenging his assertions of righteousness, at the stairs. We see it with XY, both in MDZS and arguably even more clearly in CQL as well: in episode 10 he instantly decides that XY should be executed, and is about to carry out that execution when WWX intervenes—and then he's offended about WWX's intervention! The only reason he doesn't carry out the execution on the spot is MY's argument that keeping XY alive can be used to harm the Wen. And, of course, we see it with his attitude to WQ and WN, although people are so often determined to ignore this. Please note that he argues /against/ JC and LXC's defense of them, both in MDZS and in CQL; if ever there was a single incident that could have changed at all how things came out, it would be the very respected sect leader Nie, whose sect is after the Jin the strongest surviving sect post-Sunshot, speaking out in their defense at the conference convened to determine what to do about the fact that WWX just made off with them.

Now, thematically, I think part of the point of his character is that his inflexibility is...well, inflexible; his condemnation of people who are in bad positions does more harm than good. Returning to JGY for a moment, I also think it's telling that NMJ doesn't take effective action to accomplish his goals re: XY. This isn't even just because JGY killed him—if he had actually killed JGY instead, then he would have found quite suddenly that he'd killed Lianfang-zun, the war hero who killed WRH, his own sworn brother, JGS' beloved son, etc etc etc. It would not have gone well for him. Part of the point is that—in a corrupt system, acting as though the system isn't corrupt will itself lead to injustice. Making NMJ himself knowingly complicit in the corruption of that system rather defeats that point.

I am also, I admit, /extremely/ annoyed that /he/ is offered the understanding that he had no choice because of his position, while JGY's difficulties are ignored, and when a) although from what we see in MDZS it would certainly have been quite difficult, he did actually have a choice b) the movie strongly suggests (with the ready willingness of the Nie men to follow him when he rejects the ancestral method of balancing, their respect for sabre-weak NHS, and the lack of opposition from any other area) that it would not, actually, have been that difficult, socially speaking.

I think in terms of the effects this has on people's interpretations of JGY, probably this makes them think that NMJ at the stairs rejects the specifics of JGY's argument, and contributes to a general lack of engagement with the substance of what JGY is actually saying (and the lack of substance of NMJ's reply). People mostly ignore NMJ's similar stance towards WQ, so I suspect this doesn't have much effect there; I have on occasion seen the claim that he was right to condemn her as well, but I mostly don't think it was coming from an FJ-inspired place.

When it comes to NHS…mmm. As I said, CQL makes him less amoral at the beginning, although it doesn't prevent his total—I'm not even sure you can say 'carelessness towards collateral damage' in the current timeline when from his perspective collateral damage would be a good thing, since it would be blamed on JGY. Not to mention the way he treats QS, what he's implied to do with MS' body... I suspect that FJ!NHS is where you get man-of-the-people NHS, who would /totally/ have built those watchtowers instead of that awful JGY if that awful JGY hadn't cruelly murdered his brother because a) he's Evil and/or b) he's ambitious (and also evil), and what other considerations could there possibly be?

To which I can only say: fucking spare me. I suspect the characterization here of NHS and of the Nie men contributes generally to fandom's idea of a much more gentle and progressive cultivation world than either MDZS or CQL supports.

In summation: FJ is, considered as providing any kind of interpretive light on CQL and/or MDZS characters, a terrible movie. If you are not fully familiar with the relevant portions of MDZS, I don't see how you could come away from this without absorbing significant falsehoods. Although I certainly can't and indeed don't wish to tell anyone what they should or should not consider canon, I do think it's important to know that incorporating FJ into your personal canon is going to result in an extremely different characters than not doing so, and if you want to argue with CQL or MDZS fans about characters' characterizations based on FJ, it's not going to be a very productive discussion for anyone involved.

A few miscellaneous notes:

-The change in the narrative of NMJ's violence extends beyond the replacement of his primary target. In fact, there are three things in particular I want to pull out.

First, and despite his near assault of NHS, FJ!NMJ is portrayed as much less...well, scary, than MDZS NMJ, and even to some extent CQL NMJ. NMJ habitually takes out his anger in undirected violence towards objects—the boulder when he hears his men talking about MY, the boulder(/pillar in CQL) after MY kills WRH, the door he kicks open to kill JGY before he qi-deviates, the table he cracks in his anger around NHS delighting in fans rather than knowing where he sabre is; even, though here at least it is a clear deliberate choice, his burning of NHS' things. In FJ—well, I don't want to say there's none of that, he does at least break NHS' paintbrush and I could be misremembering other things, but it certainly seems a lot less prevalent. And more than that, people simply don't react to him as terrifying! In FJ, NHS after NMJ /nearly hits him/ is still a lot less scared of NMJ's anger than NHS is in this parallel scene in MDZS, where he does not (ch 49):

One day, the moment he returned to the main hall of the Unclean Realm, he saw about a dozen folding fans, all lined in gold, flattened out one next to the other in front of Nie HuaiSang, who was touching them tenderly, mumbling as he compared the inscriptions written on each one. Immediately, veins protruded from Nie MingJue’s forehead, “Nie HuaiSang!”

Nie HuaiSang fell at once.

He really did fall to his knees from the terror. He only staggered up after he finished kneeling, “B-b-b-brother.”

Nie MingJue, “Where is your saber?”

Nie HuaiSang cowered, “In… in my room. No, in the school grounds. No, let me… think…”

Wei WuXian could feel that Nie MingJue almost wanted to hack him dead right there, “You bring a dozen fans with you wherever you go, yet you don’t even know where your own saber is?!”

Nie HuaiSang hurried, “I’ll go find it right now!”

Nie MingJue, “There’s no need! Even if you find it you won’t get anything out of it. Go burn all of these!”

All of the color drained out of Nie HuaiSang’s face. He rushed to pull all of the fans into his arms, pleading, “No, Brother! All of these were given to me!”

Nie MingJue slammed his palm onto a table, causing it to crack, “Who did? Tell them to scurry out here right now!”

Even though he nearly hits NHS, even though he actually kills many of his own men, he is simply not presented as nearly as scary.

Second, and not unrelatedly, in FJ the narrative focus of the consequence of NMJ's violence is on his own pain at his men's death, and NHS' pain at seeing him kill them. In MDZS, this is more complicated. We see, of course, his violence to JGY, and the consequences to JGY of that violence; at the stairs, for example, kicking JGY down the stairs he gives him another head wound to add to the one Madam Jin gave him. Moreover, his increasing rage actually /damages/ his relationship with NHS. We see this notably in NHS' reaction to NMJ burning his things (ch 49):

Nie HuaiSang’s eyes brimmed red. He didn’t even make a sound. Jin GuangYao added, “It’s alright even if the things are gone. Next time I can find you more…”

Nie MingJue interrupted, his words like ice, “I’ll burn them each time he brings them back into this sect.”

Anger and hatred suddenly flashed across Nie HuaiSang’s face. He threw his saber onto the ground and yelled, “Then burn them!!!”

Jin GuangYao quickly stopped him, “HuaiSang! Your brother is still angry. Don’t…”

Nie HuaiSang roared at Nie MingJue, “Saber, saber, saber! Who the fuck wants to practice the damn thing?! So what if I want to be a good-for-nothing?! Whoever that wants to can be the sect leader! I can’t learn it means I can’t learn it and I don’t like it means I don’t like it! What’s the use of forcing me?!”

He then runs off the field and locks himself in his rooms, not even letting anyone in to bring him medicine. The next we hear about NHS is in the next scene, not two months later, when LXC describes NMJ's recent troubles (ch 50): "These past few days, he has been deeply troubled by the saber spirit, and HuaiSang has argued with him again." Now, they clearly continue to love each other, and NHS is clearly devastated by NMJ's death; but in the months leading up to NMJ's death, their relationship was unusually strained, not closer than ever.

Thirdly, I think the narrative ends up distorting the way NMJ's sabre rages work. Not completely—the example where he almost punches NHS is actually a pretty good example—but consider his final violence to his men. He kills them, /not/ because in his rage he feels that killing them would be righteous punishment for whatever they have done, but because he hallucinates that they are WRH's puppets. But I don't believe we see NMJ hallucinate anything until he actually qi-deviates—at which point he hallucinates that they are /JGY/, and while in CQL at least JGY has confessed to the corrupted music before he starts hallucinating JGYs, in MDZS his anger is, again, about how JGY was talking about him to LXC. When NMJ is violent to people under the effects of the sabre curse, it is because he is angry, and in his anger that violence feels reasonable. There is not as far as I can tell anything that suggests that his sabre-affected rages feel differently from the inside than his more regular rages—nor do we ever see him apologize for the harm he does in his rages, precisely because, to him, his rage and hence his subsequent violence feel like entirely appropriate responses to the situation. I think this goes to point two, above; it would be harder to induce sympathy for NMJ if, say, he killed his men because they were challenging him, and at no point acknowledged he has been wrong to do so.

-You could probably do something interesting here with considering this movie as splitting JGY's character between NMJ (the man who makes difficult decisions due to his political position), NHS (the weak but skilled cultivator), and NZH (the loyal and extremely competent subordinate), even as it ignores the much greater difficulty of JGY's position, that his weakness is because he lacked NHS' opportunities and his skill obtained despite lacking them, that unlike FJ NMJ he actually does need to make those difficult decisions to achieve his goals and does indeed achieve them, etc. This is left as an exercise to the reader.

-I greatly resent the clear and extensive visual parallels between NHS' bow to JGY, at the end of the film, and MY's bow to JGS after JGS kicks him down the Jinlintai stairs, and the way the similarity is taken as indicating parallels beyond the visual. This is, first, because their positions are not at all the same. I am certainly not saying NHS' position was in any way comfortable or good; nevertheless, he is at that moment a clan leader who is surrounded by men who, from the film, would not hesitate to die at his command. There is not really anything about the presentation of the Nie men in FJ that suggests that if NHS went outside that room with JGY and announced to them that JGY had killed NMJ and they should attack him now, his men would do anything other than try to kill JGY immediately at his command. This was, needless to say, very much not the position of the young teenager MY, far from home, injured, humiliated, and made a public joke; perhaps more subtle is that NHS' position at NMJ's death, though he is politically weak and though he has just suffered a devastating loss, is still more secure than /JGY's/ at the same, as JGY—far from being a clan leader with the absolute obedience of his men—is not even JGS' acknowledged heir. Indeed, in many ways the focus of NHS' enmity on /JGY/, rather than JGS who commands him, is an extension of NMJ's focus on JGY rather than JGS when it comes to achieving XY's execution, and in both cases extremely advantageous to JGS. Certainly NMJ would not have been able to get away with harassing Zixuan as he does JGY on the matter of XY; likewise, JGS would never have risked Zixuan in an attempt to kill NMJ as he does JGY. The advantage of JGY as assassin is that if he kills NMJ, JGS wins; if NMJ kills him, JGS also wins (an incalculable political advantage); and if he is caught, his background makes him both easily severable and an ideal scapegoat. Also returning to framing of the bow—and while this is much more trivial it is a recurring petty imitation—I have seen matched gifsets suggesting that JGY was also swearing revenge on JGS at this moment.

-The last words JGY says to NHS are "Restrain your grief;" in English of course this comes across as extremely insensitive, but see drwcn's post for some cultural context; it's actually a common expression of condolences.

-I believe this is whence the idea that MY's headpiece in CQL used to be NHS', because we see kid NHS wearing it in the flashbacks; let us say, if you don't feel the need to accept FJ as canon, I don't think you need to accept that, either.

#fj negativity #long meta #more than one tag could contain #anger burned in his heart #we can't change places

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