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ratcandy · 4 months ago

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Big Huge Irritated Rant About The Latest COTL Update's Story Choices and the Implications

So the lore drop in the new Cult of the Lamb update, Unholy Alliance, pisses me off. The writer's confirmation of what that lore drop means pisses me off more.

Why? Because it's unnecessary recontextualization that was made pretty obviously in favor in one character in particular, and somehow in that process makes that very same character way less interesting. I think it's incredibly detrimental to the story and I will Explain Why in a second.

But before I do, I just want to put this out there: Prior to this update, my opinions on the Bishops and Narinder and that entire plotline were pretty neutral. I'm an NPC enjoyer, I spend my time thinking about that moth with two lines of dialogue. I did not previously have strong opinions on Narinder or Shamura outside of mild dislike for fandom treatment. So I'm not coming from a place of bias here (or at the very least I'm not trying to be). I genuinely, wholeheartedly, 100% believe this writing decision was unnecessary and the Wrong one to make, and I think it severely undercuts the original plotline because this was a retcon and one that sucks pretty bad.

Ok we're on the same page here? Ok awesome. Long rant ahead, and obvs spoilers for the Unholy Alliance update

So first, what the hell am I talking about? What part of the update do I not like? Let's clarify that first.

It's Shamura's dialogue. Like, all of it. For ease of understanding, here is all the dialogue I will be talking about:

"Ah... we gathered here, the four of us, a council of war and I the general. I have not forgot. I did not tell them that chains to bind a God must be forged of Godly matters. What matter of Gods? What matters of Gods? I have not forgot. The betrayal of kin, the breaking of spirits, blood spilled, his and ours. ...the sacrifice of what we had sacrificed so much for... ...shaped into shackles for our own brother. And our wounds always to weep. Such sharp claws..."

"He sought to break nature's own laws. Death was his, yet he placed his sacred duty in peril. His experiments... Experiments I encouraged. I am not... blameless. My soul, stained... yet I do not... Ah, The story. Yes the story... He wanted to open the doors between Life and Death, to... to allow their return. Those mere... mortals. Even though he knew their sacrifices, their faith, their fears sustain us. Death must be the end. Otherwise, what use would they have for Gods? They began to flock to him. What he promised, we could not match. He swelled with devotion... while we waned. Would he have let us perish? I could not take... the risk... the hunger... You are lucky there are none left to force such a choice on you. Hail, Lamb. Last God... lonely God... Ah... I feel... unburdened..."

And for fun, before anyone tells me I'm misinterpreting any of this or that it's left up to interpretation or is intentionally vague, Word of God (the writer of CoTL):

And it's this being Word of God that's spurred me into making this post to begin with. Because prior to this, I just seethed about this dialogue's implications in my server and hoped I was wrong. But now it's been confirmed what this means, and I'm . Disgruntled, to say the least!

And since I've started writing this post, there's been another addition made to further clarify parts of this. But I'm going to go over that addition more towards the end, because it also irritates me for separate reasons.

So, let's get this straight.

Prior to this update, the specifics of what happens between Narinder and the Bishops were pretty vague. We were told Narinder was "gluttonous in his ambition," per Shamura's previous dialogue, and that they "introduced him to ideas of change" but "Death cannot flow backward." Heket somewhat elaborates on this by saying he preached "heresy" and "noxious ideals" that would not be tolerated. Heket also notably refers to Narinder as a flat-out "monster." Narinder attacked his siblings and left them each with a big, symbolic wound. Then he was chained by the four of them, with Shamura the one to lead it (in their own words).

There's a lot of talk of betrayal, but before this update, it was unclear if the betrayal was meant to just be Narinder's experimenting with death (which even then was pretty heavily suggested to be resurrections) or the wounds inflicted upon his siblings. There's also a lot of talk of sacrifice, i.e. from Leshy if you kill Heket before him: "After everything we did. After everything we sacrificed. He will not be satiated."

Regardless, the picture this painted was of Narinder being this ambitious, evil, violent God that even his fellow Gods (Kallamar) feared and felt needed controlling. The idea that the wounds could have been in the nail in the coffin to this entire ordeal made sense; as they were obviously planned by Narinder to some extent (otherwise why be so intentional about who got what wound?) and a fair reaction to Being Mutilated would of course be to chain him.

Then of course there's the idea that the wounds were given while he was being chained and in self-defense, which only seems possible if you think Narinder could take on all four of his siblings at once like that and only manage to lose his claws in the ordeal (which was only revealed in this update to be something he's implied to have lost thru the relic). I thought this at first too, but realized it seems pretty impractical for that to have been the case if the wounds were also purposeful in who got what. I mean, sure, they could all be coincidentally symbolically appropriate for each Bishop, but I have doouuubts?

but now we're here, with this update, and all has been revealed.

And what's been revealed exactly?

Narinder's thing he was doing was indeed resurrections (we knew that)

Shamura encouraged him to do it (we also already knew this)

It seems like he did literally nothing else outside of that

His siblings got pissy about this because it made their domains purposeless and got all their followers to flock to him

"Would he let us perish? I could not take the risk" - Implies they literally did not even ask him

Shamura knew that in order to forge chains that could keep Narinder down, it would require a sacrifice of their bonds AND their flesh

They DID NOT tell the other Bishops this

Their wounds were requirements to chain him. They had to get the wounds they bear now in order to chain him. ONLY Shamura knew this. That means they allowed their siblings (and themself) to get attacked knowing full well what would happen. They may have even encouraged it, perhaps provoked Narinder into it, seeing as they knew the wounds were necessary to have him chained. (Or they just knew he would retaliate. Which, like. Yeah. They're condemning him after he went down a path they encouraged and, as far as we can tell, nothing else.)

And for... what?

In this version of the story, Narinder was experimenting with resurrections, and Shamura told him to keep doing that. Then he was successful, mortals turned to him, and his siblings (including Shamura, the one who told him to do it) got mad. That's it. That's their reasoning for chaining him. There's nothing else given. "Would they perish?" We have no idea. Is that how it works? Seems like Shamura doesn't know either. Or at the very least doesn't know if Narinder intended for that at all. Gives the vibe that literally no effort was made to talk to him and figure this out. They don't even really go down the "it puts nature out of balance!" path, which would at least have some merit, maybe. It's literally just "we are no longer sustained. What's the point of Gods in this world?" <- idk babe you had all the other ones slaughtered. So you tell me

And then Shamura just took it into their own hands, leading their siblings to their shared wounds (WITHOUT consulting them) and their inevitable destruction because of........... reasons, I guess. (I mean, if you think about it really hard, they probably also already knew what would happen following all this. With the lamb genocide and Narinder's resurfacing and etc. And they had their siblings wounded anyway. For no god damn reason)

And now why does this make me mad?

Because, honestly, in and of itself, there's not anything necessarily wrong with this added context. It's not contradicting anything in the main game. Shamura knowing what was needed makes sense, after all.

But it's... unnecessary. It screws up the motives and makes them more shallow, less nuanced, more... petty. Making gods petty is cool and all, I love doing that honestly, but in this case it just feels like a waste of potential.

But beyond all that. But most importantly.

This entire recontextualization of events REEKS of being made specifically to absolve Narinder.

I mean, come on. He's made out to be the victim, here. Shamura knew what he would do, knew what he would become, and knew exactly what would happen to their siblings if they sought to chain him (without doing so much as talking to him beforehand), and yet they encouraged it.

All blame is being shifted on Shamura. All Narinder did specifically against his siblings was inflict the wounds, which at this point seems to be hinted as self defense or a retaliation against threat or insult (assuming he was provoked into attacking, somehow). Because the wounds were part of the process.

And almost equally irritating, this seeks to arbitrarily absolve Leshy, Kallamar, and Heket as well, as they had no idea what the plan was and were just strung along. Which is just kinda worse, right? As far as they are aware, Narinder did just randomly attack them for no reason, and this wasn't foreseen, and surely couldn't have been stopped. All because Shamura didn't tell them any of it.

Shamura is being made into the big bad. Shamura is at fault for everything, for all of it. Narinder is a victim of Shamura encouraging him down a path they later condemn him for, their siblings are victims of Shamura and Narinder both (the latter of which could have been resolved at any point prior), and now any possible intrigue about Narinder being this big bad guy who tore apart his siblings due to his own ambition getting the best of him is ERASED.

It's GONE. All in favor of making him more sympathetic.

And sure, about a million different excuses could be made for Shamura, or could be used to headcanon whatever you want about exactly what happened. But with what we're given right now, just from the source, no attempt as made to stop Narinder before it got to this point. It is literally suggested they didn't even talk to him.

"Maybe they were too scared" - For the other three, maybe. Shamura is the eldest and clearly the most respected one, by Narinder as well (he holds some amount of respect for them even STILL. After EVERYTHING). They at any point could have stopped this.

"Narinder could still have been a bad guy outside of the attacks" - Sure, but we're given little to nothing on that front. In the old dialogue, literally all that's mentioned is the resurrection stuff and the wounds. Shamura is the one who said his ambition made a glutton of him, by the way. And hell, this isn't even touching the very real possibility that all of the Bishops (Narinder included!) are unreliable as hell.

"But Kallamar feared him even before his chaining, that suggests he was still a bad guy beforehand" - Sure, it could! But that's about all we get! And hell, in this new update, Kallamar's fears are fucked with, too. He states:

"Once, long ago, Followers would worship at my altar just to glimpse the beauty of my temple… of course, it could not last forever. Perhaps my siblings did not understand this, but I have always known. It did not make me less afraid. Cowardly Kallamar, ha…"

Here, it seems Kallamar's fears have been changed to be more about the decline of his temple and the loss of his followers, which was happening because of Narinder. He refers to Narinder's plans as "foolish" as opposed to... idk, horrifying, or threatening, or whatever. He also fully takes on the 'cowardly' title, giving the impression that his fears were somehow unfounded, which wouldn't make a lick of sense if Narinder indeed sucked ass outside of the wounds.

Not to mention he "didn't want to hear it" when Shamura "revealed the plan," but we know because of Shamura that they didn't mention anything about the wounds, so Kallamar didn't want to hear that they... had to chain Narinder? That's literally all he could've been told about the plan. Why wouldn't he want to chain Narinder if he was scared of him up until that point?? Doesn't make any sense!!! EDIT AFTER I POSTED: On reconsideration this might just be referring the lamb genocide plan, but that's hardly better, because now this update absolves Narinder, Leshy, AND Kallamar by making them blameless in everything (both Leshy and Kallamar expressed not fully understanding the plan for the slaughter or, in this case, not wanting part in it). What's up with THAT. Why is Shamura getting the blame for LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

Anyway, my point is

This was a story decision made to make Narinder sympathetic. It's so blatant. And it's so, so irritating. It gets rid of so many potential cool flaws of Narinder and replaces it with "Actually, Shamura was the bad guy the whole time! Huzzah!"

And honestly, had the entire game come out like this to begin with, released at the start how it is right now, I don't think I'd care this much. But being added now, as an afterthought, after the fandom and devs alike have grown to favor Narinder above all others, it just...

It reeks of favoritism. It smells of revising the story to make Narinder more likeable. It's just erasure.

And for what. Like, I don't want to be That Guy, but I cannot help but notice that one of two nonbinary characters (outside of the Lamb/Goat themselves) is being this heavily demonized in favor of absolving a Man of his crimes. What's, uh. What's up with that.

Oh, and that addition by the writer I mentioned was made while I was writing this.

This was made after Jojo was questioned whether this was a retcon as to who caused the wounds, as this whole thing could also certainly be read as Shamura being the one to directly wound their siblings (which I didn't think was the case, but still).

"I don't know if they thought it would be so severe" - How do I put this in a nice way. This feels like a weaseling out answer. This feels like giving Shamura an out only after being questioned on this writing choice. How could they possibly not know how severe it would be. This spider is Knowledge. This spider has Foresight of some kind. And how do you not know what they thought. You are the Writer. If you want to clarify something like this you gotta say it with your full chest.

Not to mention a good portion of the fandom probably won't even see these tweets, so this context is all missing from the story presented in the game. This is Tacked On Context on top of already Tacked On Context. It's unnecessary retconning all the way down.

Anyway. I realize the fandom at large will not care about this, because (and I mean this in the nicest way I can manage) the Narinder favoritism in this fandom is already impenetrable, but for me personally? This retconning that was so clearly done out of that favoritism?

It ruined Narinder's character for me. More than the fandom possibly could have. I mean, if it's fanon, it can be ignored. But this was canonized. Because Narinder is the dev team's favorite guy.

And I can't stand it.

#VERY long ramble #<- i mean it. this post is chunky.#I have a lot of thoughts. And they are not positive. MM dev team when i get you.#Narinder enjoyers beware. I do not like your man and it's because of this update.#If anything I said in the post is unclear please feel free to ask and I will elaborate where I can! I tried to make my thoughts #as clear as possible. but i am also a fulltime college student with a keyboard that is currently retaliating against me.#My brain is a little scattered atm lmao. but if I hold onto this post much longer I might just anxiety myself out of posting it.#because nobody else seems to be having these same critiques. Save for my tiny little discord server where we are all very loud haters.#If you don't agree with me that's awesome 👍 please be normal about it tho if you are arguing i'm begging.#if this post gets any amount of traction I'm going to be wary about having my inbox open hkjsdhg #ok now the scary part.#cult of the lamb #cotl unholy alliance #cotl spoilers #unholy alliance spoilers #<- i don'tknow if that still needs tagging but jic. also I'm wary of tagging characters on here. so for now i won't.#cotl #ok that's it for now. Runs away. Fast

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jorenilee · 1 year ago

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I made a mile long twt thread about okuyasu that I'll just paste here too because I have many thoughts about him <333 anyways heres my messy rambles about this specific line because AUUGH

do u ever think about this one line and how perfectly it encapsulates his entire character and how it fits into diu. Like first Okuyasu is NOT a traditionally kind person, he's no saint, he's quick to violence and anger and frustration, he's close-minded and is very clear about his lack of regard for others.

But coupling that with this line from Keicho (sometimes it's translated as "only when I hit him does he listen to me) and its like damn. Their entire lives have been shaped by violence, the only way they've made ANY progress is through death and hurt.

Keicho's power in the family comes from discipline, violence over his father and violence caused by the arrow. The one thing standing between him and a "normal" life is the literal death of his father. It doesn't matter how many lives he ruins in the process, all that matters is getting that second chance. His life has been on an uncontrollable downward spiral, but with the arrow and his own family at his heel, he has power. He can make decisions. He can unshackle himself from the past 10 years and finally start his life.

And of course Okuyasu would absorb all this, because Keicho was all he had, and his own father always responded to that violence. And if you follow the interpretation that the brothers gained their stands from the arrow, that's another instance of them gaining power through suffering. Becoming "better".

And it's so interesting that keicho treats his father and Okuyasu as deadweights "holding him back" when in reality, it was Keicho that was sinking down into tar, refusing to get out because a happier life could be just on the other side.

Okuyasu wanted to save his father the moment that possibility was established, but Keicho held onto the arrow, his sinking fate, his suffering, until the very end. He believed he crossed his moral event horizon and he was destined on this set path. No matter how much power he could scrounge for himself, death ruled his entire life, whether that of his father or the lives of the arrow's victims.

And all this makes Okuyasu's relationships with Josuke and Koichi so much better because. Okuyasu did NOT care for their safety. He was, at least on the surface, on board with Koichi or even Josuke dying. Maybe not all that passionate, but he's seen death, probably participated in it, and believes that it's the Number 1 Nijimura Way. So then Josuke healing him is completely antithetical to his entire damn life.

He was ready to die, ready to "learn his lesson", ready to be discarded because he failed, just like how all those people died to the arrow because they failed to handle a stand. But Josuke's very lukewarm "i jus dont want ppl dying??" belief is so groundbreaking because death was so necessary for any and all progress.

Okuyasu's own stand is inherently destructive and erases things permanently. Maybe a deep-seated desire to actually make lasting impacts on his surroundings erupting as a power beyond death. To cause total oblivion. I know we all love to think that Keicho didn't want to force Okuyasu to kill his own father, but Keicho wanted a normal death. Because at least a normal death can happen to a normal family. And completely erasing someone's atoms isn't a mortal death.

Then here comes Josuke's healing schtick which WORKS, and Josuke is fully prepared to sacrifice an arm and leg just to save Koichi. In like 15 minutes, one guy completely overwrote the past 15 years of Okuyasus life. He helps Josuke heal koichi (extra layer of fucked because all those arrow victims never HAD to die), gets called a great guy, and starts his character arc of. Making decisions in the absence of violence. Choosing to heal and rebuild instead of destroying and moving onto the next victim. Of continuing the cycle of beating life lessons into people's heads.

And Koichi, dude he choked out with a gate, becomes his close friend too. Koichi who gets repeatedly harassed thru diu but still has it in him to forgive and befriend others. He's far from naive, gets fed up with shit, but he's another opposite to Okuyasu. His stand evolves through pain, maybe, but it's from a desire to protect himself or others. There's a chance Koichi was never supposed to survive, but he did (part 4's theme about fate is a different story oooboy) and his active ability to see the best in people compliments Josuke's more aloof demeanor and Okuyasu's short temper. Koichi is like. The embodiment of growth in that way.

and ik its eoh dialogue but this interaction was always neat to me because of how it highlighted Okuyasu's disinterest in improvement, at least when it comes to character. For him, as long as someone "gets" the lesson at a surface level or is good enough at it, there's no reason to dive deeper. To fully wrap your head around it and Feel it. Its the same utility-first philosophy Keicho held, the same idea that all that matters is the end goal, not the means or the people along the way. + how Okuyasu still bickered and talked back to Keicho, but understood well enough that Keicho was the one in control.

"bare minimum" is how okuyasu lived his entire life; his house, how keicho treated him, his response to Josuke and Koichi's kindness, his entire relationship with his father.

He desperately wants, yeah, but its for more material things. Money and power, things either robbed from him or held over his head. And YEAH he's supposed to be hypocritical here, but like. Why does he lose his morals and sense ESPECIALLY when those two things are involved. Why does he "regress" in character growth back to tunnel-visioned violence and discipline about them.

And rahhhhhh is it lackluster writing or is it interesting that Okuyasu's pretty stagnant for the entirety of diu. It's like he's passively absorbing things about befriending former enemies through kindness, inspiring loyalty through passion not pain.

He calls Mikitaka weird and dismisses him (remnants of Keicho's utility stuff?), gets ghost tricked, acts like a big brother a few times. But it's when he meets Keicho face-to-face that it all crashes down around him. The same way Nijimura father had shackled him, Keicho had also been weighing on Okuyasu.

Its like. Keichos death made Okuyasu rebound onto Josuke and get consumed by vengeance against Otoishi, and Okuyasu didn't know how to properly grieve Shigechi either. His entire life, when someone died, violence was the answer. Hide the body, kill the father, don't ever think about what you've done.

But its Keicho, the one that spearheaded the power-and-suffering-over-all thing, who steps in and requests that Okuyasu thinks it over. The Keicho that said he stopped regarding oku as his brother, was willing to kill him to prove a point, who quite possibly shot the arrow at him. Who taught him that only violence yields the answer. Self-inflicted or not.

He says to just think about it. And Okuyasu thinks long enough for Josuke and Hayato to lose their damn minds and for him to actually understand it, fully wrap his mind around it. The fact that he has a "second" life, the life Keicho pursued for so long and died for. And he has it because of the love and compassion from his friends, how they see past the failures and transgressions of others.

How they just dont want people to die. And Okuyasu doesnt have to either. He doesnt have to stay sinking for his brother, doesnt have to lose everything for a mistake, doesnt have to destroy to make a difference. and so he chooses to live. Really, fully live. For himself.

And he comes back, now able to recognize and separate himself from Keicho's teachings. THERES A REASON STRAY HAS BEEN MY PFP FOR FOREVER BECAUSE Okuyasu comes back and saves Stray. The little creature that literally EXPLODED him.

And it means so much that it wasn't a "this creature is good and I will rescue it" moment, because Okuyasu was never a saviour hero-type. He didn't even mean to "save" the cat. He just removed Stray from Kira's grasp, and THEN realized oh I think it's just a little guy. Alright cool I guess the fucker stays with me.

He's growing his own way, beginning his new life by first and foremost helping others. He brings stray home BEFORE it takes a liking to his father. It's just. The first independent, weighted decision he makes is giving a stressed, unfortunate cat a second chance at life. It was struck by an arrow, revived due to forces outside it's comprehension, and was fuelled by instincts to lash out and attack. And because it was destructive and able to follow orders, it was weaponized. Before finally being removed from the situation and calmed down. Sound familiar?

And now Okuyasu has a semblance of a domestic family. The Nijimura family is all about growth from death and it's so interesting. Nijimura father becoming cruelest after his wife's death, him mutating after DIO's death, Keicho believing his life begins after his father's death, Okuyasu's life actually beginning after Keicho's demise, Stray being reborn as a plant (symbol of growth), and Okuyasu reviving too (also due to Keicho's death).

+ shit about nijimura father unable to die and Okuyasu constantly being pulled from death by Josuke ADDING MORE FUNNY LAYERS TO LOOK AT + the name nijimura literally meaning rainbow village. Both the physical irl place and the idea that rainbows = rebirth and hope and new beginnings + stray being reincarnated under one + Okuyasu reviving after the rain passed. Death doesn't rule them, but is also inescapable??? Idk anyways

ALL THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY okuyasu is a flawed character surrounded by violence and bad decisions, he's not a pure soul and does fucked shit and is NOT a 2014 tumblr era cinnamon roll PLEASE. He can be an ass and it makes the hopeful buds of his new life that more beautiful cuz like. Morioh is the best place for him to settle and grow, reteach himself everything because it's a community of equally if not more dubious weirdos.

Oku's far far from perfect, he's still got a lot of anger and shortsightedness but he's with people that love him, willing to help him when he makes mistakes, doesn't hold him back. His relationships with Josuke and Koichi and others aren't like. Super poetic or cosmic or "I will find you in every universe"esque and it suits him. He's just a teen guy who went thru everything and missed out on everything. He's suffered, caused suffering, but he's leaving that cycle.

Judging by the book (semi-canon), it's going as messy as expected, but he loves his friends so so much. He's still putting himself in harm's way and being reckless and an asshole, but he has something more to fight for. And he cares a lot. Is willing to go beyond for it, maybe even improve. And that's enough for him (in the best way).

Idk how to end the thread anyways he's my son my baby perfect angel also he sucks bad BUT HE'S PERFECT ‼️‼️ this is how I feel about him every given day it just depends on the celestial alignment of the planets and stars

#jjba #jjba diu #my silly words #ty to the diu discord server i was in #i was rereading nijimura discussions and 3thousand words erupted from my soul just now #I FEEL VERY NORMAL ABOUT OKUYASU #okuyasu #okuyasu nijimura #diu #long #stray cat #keicho nijimura #oh yeah how do we feel about their military motifs akin to a soldier marching to their death #unable to change paths because a higher power seems to force them #to die for a “greater good”#also okus other arc hes gonna hafta go thru of realizing. mm maybe he shouldnt meat shield so much #yknow go and get hurt first and trusting josuke to patch him up #4TH ANOTHER DAY BOOK READERS YKNOW WHAT I MEAN

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