#ml s5 discourse

[wackus-bonkus-maximus]

Idk if you’ve heard yet, but apparently the miraculous writing team released a commentary about the s5 finale, and in it they said that Chat Noir not being in the finale was their plan from the beginning (like 2014/15) so they could use the Bug Noire powerup with Marinette. Since you’re working on LoA, I’m curious for your thoughts 😬

i have been off tumblr for a few days but the gist of all the discourse seems to be a disfavorable attitude toward this decision!

"kill your darlings" isn't just about killing characters - it's about killing things that you personally really want in your story if they don't work. personally, i think they could have made bug noire work. there's a lot going against adrien already that he felt chat noir couldn't have helped in the final battle. he didn't need to have a dream about destroying the world; ladybug could've told him about it, and it would have been narratively satisfying to her arc of secret keeping. even moreso, because by chat noir not being present at the battle, ladybug lost and gabriel made the wish. then she could've started season six with reason to think she can't tell anything to adrien, but to chat noir too. and if chat noir had a little breakdown about his chat blanc past, it would have justified ladybug not sending that text to chat about gabriel's identity (in that moment). she probably wouldn't have wanted him to know he'd basically killed gabriel, too.

it just seems like bug noire is a darling they were determined to keep and paid the cost of more coherent narrative decisions to get there. it seems also like adrien remaining in the dark is also a darling the writers wanted to keep. sure, they're getting to tell the story they wanted, but not in the most cohesive or coherent way. but you know what, at least it invites a lot of fic ideas for how the post-wish world should look! and that's really what me and noodles are doing in lies of attrition.

[pisoprano]

With regards to the ML season 5 finale:

I’ve seen some people bemoan Marinette for letting her guard down in front of Gabriel since that enabled him to make his Wish—a classic case of the hero being stupid because the plot needed it happen. But actually? I think it was the very fact that she did let her guard down that helped save the world.

Ladybug has always been shown as being a compassionate person, and this became more pronounced when she started handing out protective charms and giving the akumatized victims the encouragement they needed to help fight back against succumbing to their negative emotions. (side note: I will admit I previously thought it was weird when the show kept having her hand these out after Shadowmoth figured out how to break them, but after the group effort of everyone using their charms to help Prof. Damocles, I realized that they were showing that continued effort to be kind was the right thing to do, even when those efforts failed, because in aggregate it will help things get better).

Marinette is someone who has learned to see and recognize others when they’re at their lowest and support them, and when she realizes that her archenemy is just as human as all the villains she’s faced before, she shows him compassion too. And Gabriel responds to it! Moments before, he was raving about having his perfect universe with his perfect family, with Adrien and Kagami being the iconic perfect couple as its crowning jewel. It’s Marinette who brings him back down to reality and gives him the wake-up call he’s sorely needed—and she can only do that by, not confronting him and judging him, but honestly empathizing with him. She has all the power to crush him and he knows it, so when she instead responds with understanding and reminds him of what Emilie really wanted, the simple truth of it breaks his resolve to get everything he wants—and with that clarity he is finally able to stop being in denial about Emilie’s death and prioritize the happiness Adrien made for himself over what Gabriel thought was best for him.

Naturally, the second that even a hint of a solution pops up, Gabe falls back into his old patterns of grasping at slim chances, but when he does? He doesn’t have the same goals anymore. When he makes the Wish, whatever his heart and soul asked for didn’t include his perfect vision that forced everyone into their boxes of what he thought was right. It saved Nathalie (whose illness was directly caused by Gabriel’s wrongdoings as Hawkmoth, so it’s understandable he’d still want to set that right), and it may or may not have saved Emilie (I personally think that he didn’t, but we’ll see), but Gabriel wasn’t part of that world and Adrien was free to live his life on his own terms. That would not have happened if Gabriel had gotten his hands on the ring and earrings before Marinette helped him change, just enough, to let his obsession go.

Marinette may have made some mistakes in the finale, but being the person who helps others isn’t one of them. There’s a reason Ladybug is considered the greatest hero in the Miraculous universe: it’s not just because she saves the day, but because she inspires people—even those who have hurt her—to choose to become better. The fact that she did so with Gabriel “Monarch” Agreste is pretty amazing in my book.

[wisteriasymphony]

devastated that adrien's only plans for lycée are to share classes with his girlfriend. he really can't have one single unique interest can he. like... idc that I personally headcanon that he's interested in literature and languages and stuff, he could be planning on taking classes in computer science or economics or medicine or just... ANYTHING.

honestly the "I just want to be with my girlfriend, whose name is Marinette Dupain-Cheng, because I love my girlfriend, Marinette Dupain-Cheng" feels more like a copout than anything meant to be cute.

[purrincess-chat]

This idea is half-baked, and I'm still not fully awake, so take that for what it's worth, but I feel like the pushback against canon Adrinette stems in part from people's attitudes toward teen love in general. A lot of adults view teenage love as ephemeral, silly, meaningless, dramatic. It's seen as being unrealistic, idealized, destined to fail, and people don't take teens seriously when they say they're in love and want to be together forever. It's this sarcastic attitude of "I give them two weeks before they break up" simply because of their age. Adults have a way of delegitimizing young people's feelings as being shallow when compared to adult love. Which, can sometimes be true, but I think anything that makes someone feel something is meaningful, no matter how silly it can be perceived as.

It reminds me of the concept that young children cry when they fall down or bonk their heads because they don't have the life experience to relate back to. At that point in time, that is the worst thing that's ever happened to them. They have no other frame of reference, but does that make their pain less legitimate? For most teens, breaking up with a first love is the most pain they've ever been in emotionally. Will they eventually grow and learn? Sure. But that doesn't make it less painful in the moment. Future worse pain doesn't do anything to dull present pain. Stubbing my toe doesn't become less painful just because I might break my arm later.

A lot of the arguments I've seen people make against Adrinette come off as that same sarcastic, condescending attitude people take when real teens couple up. "It's not real love" "they're going to break up in two weeks" "their feelings are superficial, it will never last" "why don't you date this other guy, he's much better for you." And like, to me, it just comes off a bunch of jaded asshole adults sticking their noses up at kids for the crime of *checks notes* "having feelings." Just because they don't see it as being real or meaningful. At what point do we stop treating people's feelings, regardless of their age, as being silly, shallow, and unimportant? Because it actually happens in all walks of life. Kids crying over bumping their head? Eh, it's just a bump, quit crying. A teen girl crying bc her first boyfriend dumped her? What did she expect? He's a dumb teenager who could only ever break her heart. A young adult loses their job? Should have worked harder. A middle-aged adult mourns their youth? Grow up. An old woman regrets not doing more in her younger years? Too late now.

There is always someone older with more life experience to tell people their experiences mean nothing because it only gets worse. But like damn, Adrien and Marinette have both been through so much in their young lives. Can they kiss each other and feel happy and safe for five damn minutes without some assholes telling them they're doing it wrong? Sheesh.

[dykeplants]

def watching the miraculous ladybug movie there is nothing I love more than musicals n I just spent like an hour scrolling thru ml discourse cuz it's more fun that way

[fortuna-et-cataclysmos]

Fortuna's ML Analyses Master List

Look, I had to do something with my Humanities degree.

Ep. 26 Recreation:

A perfect world and a fake victory

Wrapping up the "running out of time" theme

In defense of s5 finale: the finale was supposed to feel wrong

Ep. 25 Conformation:

The ultimate fight location: the kitchen

Ep. 23 Revolution:

Adrinette love as act of revolt

Ep. 22 Collusion:

Ms. Sans-Culotte and the French Revolution symbolism

Collusion and the political victory of Gabriel/Monarch

Ep. 19 Pretension:

Season 5 and the symbolism of pancakes: Gabriel's illusions of choice

Two designers: Marinette vs. Gabriel

Ep. 18 Emotion:

On Felix, Revolution and Anarchism

Ep. 17 Adoration:

Marinette's healthy relationship message

Ep. 16 Protection:

Meta joke on ml fans

Marinette/Adrien and Gabriel/Emilie parallels (visual storytelling)

Hints that Kagami is a sentibeing too

Ep. 14 Derision:

3 beliefs Marinette acquired due to the prank and how it impacts her relationships

Accepting Chat Noir & Adrien parallels (short)

Adrien's pov on Marinette's anxiety (short)

Ep. 10 Transmission:

Duty vs. Love: how Ladybug and Chat Noir chose love over duty

Metaphor between disease and superpowers: the weight of responsibility

Adrien & Gabriel parallels (short)

Separation and reconciliation of civilian and superhero identities

Ep. 9 Elation:

the Marichat kiss image analysis (l don't have anything better to do)

Marinette and the impossibility to be in a relationship

Monuments' symbolism in season 5

End card: Chat understands that his love to Marinette is impossible (short)

Ep. 8 Reunion:

Post-truth in Miraculous

Ladybug // Joan of Arc parallels: heroes' antagonisation

Ep. 7 Passion:

Marinette and control vis-à-vis Adrien and Chat Noir

Ladybug/Chat Noir roles reversal (short)

Nathalie's discourse analysis and how it reflects her relationship with the Agrestes

Ep. 6 Determination:

Determination in the light of Derision: why Marinette falls both for Adrien and Chat Noir

Marinette crying at the end of episode explained: the duality of Marinette and Ladybug

Adrien falling for Marinette at her worst, loving her as is

Marinette and self-acceptance

Contrast between Adrien and Marinette in understanding their love

Jubilation // Determination speech parallels

the love square is becoming a circle (short)

The symbolism of the museum Grévin? (overanalysis)

The symbolism of wax heroes? (overanalysis)

Ep. 5 Illusion:

Gabriel's emotional exploitation of Adrien

Nino's Resistance: a reference to French Résistance during WW2

Ep. 4 Jubilation:

The importance of rain in Jubilation

On Adrien/Chat Noir and control, aka why is Adrien depressed in Jubilation?

Easter egg in the episode

The power of Jubilation (short)

Reconciling the real Chat Noir and the one in Ladybug's dreams (short)

Ep.3 Destruction:

Parallels between Chat Noir and the Monarch's destructions

Chat Noir vs. the perfect Chat Noir Ladybug wants (short)

General s5:

Miraculous Ladybug is actually a Greek tragedy

Schrödinger's love square (short)

Gabriel and Adrien being each other's obstacle to be with their love (short)

My one and only salt about the scientific error in Ephemeral

I'm doing this list mostly for myself (it was starting to get hard to keep track of some points I previously made when I wanted to link).

I'll keep this updated, and if I have forgotten something (Tumblr's search function has disappointed me once more...) feel free to lmk :3

[kisilinramblings]

Can someone help me find the source where it was stated that Jeremy was attempting the summarize 5 seasons in one movie? Cause, that is not what I saw in the final product.

ML movie feels more like a "what if the Agreste Arc concluded at S1" or something like that in order for Mayura to become the main villain for the second movie. Yes, they waited for S5 to finish airing before releasing the movie in theater, but the movie didn't spoil anything from the show and is in fact very independent from it (despite re-using the characters design, the show VAs and allowing themselves to take shortcuts and fanservice because the show exists in parallel).

Anyway, I wonder how much of the fact that the two fictions have completely different take about Gabriel played into that. I can only imagine the discourses in the fandom if fans were convinced the show was going to redeem Gabriel solely because the movie did it.

[generalluxun]

Hey! I've been loving your Chloé/Alya AU story as well as enjoying your posts a lot in general, I'll be reading Dog Daze too when I can because it seems like it's your "main story" and I'm curious about the dynamics of Adrien/Sabrina as a ship (which I hadn't thought of before seeing your blog!) - I also just enjoy the way you write the characters a lot, especially because you're both a Chloé defender and a gay Chloé enthusiast like me lol. And your dunking on Astruc is delicious too, of course! Do you have any upcoming fics/vague ideas you've been considering that you feel comfortable sharing?

Thanks for the question and for your followup clarification, I'll answer both parts here.

First off: Thank you for reading! The Chloé/Alya fic was an experiment, and a bit of a gift to @flightfoot who is a big Alya fan, and a treasure to the community. I've come to love the dynamic as I've explored it.

Dog Daze is the largest AU, yes. Chock full of one shots after the main fic. It *Does* start with Puppy Love, which was supposed to be a one shot, then oops, I had an AU. Fin fact:Dog Daze was supposed to be endgame Adrienette, but the goobers just didn't want to let each other go. Oops. 🤣

Adribrina is my comfort ship. They are just so... 🥺 It's sweet, it's gentle, it's supportive, and they don't even realize it.

I wouldn't call myself a Chloé defender. I just don't like anything that belittles/justifies/ignores choild abuse. Chloé happens to be an abused child blamed for her own abuse by the narrative. I fond that particular aspect of ML reprehensible and so am vocal about it. If they had just left her as a 1D bully the entire time, it wouldn't be an issue. Once you demonstrate child abuse *on screen* then certain expectations change.

I do think Chloé as a character is in an amazingly dynamic position, teetering and able to go in many directions. This is why she features so much in my writings.

As you said in your followup, I do put Chloé in both het and lesbian ships(even some bi) for me, her attraction has a lot more to do with the person *giving her attention* and the plumbing is actually largely secondary. Not knocking anyone else's headcanon, that's just my take on her.

I don't set out to 'dunl' on Astruc, bit he has positioned himself as the voice/aithority/control so questionable narrative lands in his lap. He also seems to be ill suited to engaging on online discourse (no slight there, it can be hard!) But also seems to want to enjoy the access to praise it offers. This makes for a volatile mess. In all honesty I would love a chance to corner him and just ask 'why' for a lot of choices. I do fear though many of hos answers would boil down to 'Who do you listen to, me, or your lying eyes?'

I was thinking of actually doing a LoZ TotK fic in the near future.

If ML there are cirrently 3 options spinning.

1)Continue Dog Daze Continuity with a story set in the final year before university and bringing Kagami back into the mix.

2)Continue Gothic AU continuity with a story focusing on Adrien's acquiring of the Pig, and Sabrina's akumatization with the Goat while continuing to explore the other dynamics (like Ladybug/Peluche and Chloé reason for being... Lile she is)

3)Chloé comes back worse. Post S5 fic where Chloé is actually putting in effort to be a chaos demon, not just other people's pawn.

Thanks again for the ask!

[rosie-b]

Reminder that I will be tagging my posts about the whole Finale Thing with the tag #ml s5 finale discourse and you can block that tag if you’re sick of hearing about it. Which is so valid and I’m there myself but I’m too overwhelmed to stop 🙃

[into-september]

Do you have a tierlist for ML dubs?

Nnnnnot really. Until the S5 deluge I watched new episodes in whatever language they'd first drop in. I did a run-down of languages I've watched the show in once

but as for which ones I have any great feelings about:

I tend to default to the English one a lot because it's the most readily available online. It's solid.

I enjoy the show on a very different level in Norwegian and I think it's because I interact with fandom in English (=analysis) but when I hear it in Norwegian it is just a dumb cartoon on Disney Channel and I can enjoy it without thinking about things (instead I get unnecessarily hung up on the inconsistent use of vernacular, but I get like that about everything dubbed here)

The Japanese voicework is probably the best of the ones I've heard, and yes that includes the French

I have no basis of commenting on the Finnish dub but I love the casting and the performances sound really good to my went-on-holiday-there-every-summer-as-a-child ears

Honorary mention: The Welsh Adrien who is the best singer I've come across yet

[trainsinanime]

Ich habe 5.537 Mal im Jahr 2022 etwas gepostet

Das sind 1.381 more posts als 2021!

601 Einträge erstellt (11%)

4.936 Einträge gerebloggt (89%)

Blogs, die ich am häufigsten gerebloggt habe:

@galahadwilder

@flightfoot

@gentil-minou

@dingdongyouarewrong

@into-september

Ich habe 4.137 meiner Einträge im Jahr 2022 getaggt

Nur 25% meiner Einträge hatten keine Tags

#miraculous ladybug – 3.099 Einträge

#spy x family – 135 Einträge

#bakery enemies au – 124 Einträge

#eurovision – 71 Einträge

#ml season 5 spoilers – 70 Einträge

#ml spoilers – 63 Einträge

#ml s5 spoilers – 53 Einträge

#marigami – 46 Einträge

#eurovision song contest – 40 Einträge

#ml elation spoilers – 30 Einträge

Longest Tag: 140 characters

#always remember weredad the basics of that situation haven’t really changed except he’s gotten even more unwilling to date anyone but ladybu

Meine Top-Einträge im Jahr 2022:

#5

Kim: Man, this Monarch guy sucks ass. I'm glad that Hawkmoth dude is gone, though.

Alya: What? No, it's the same man. He just uses a different name now.

Kim: Huh? Oh, I get it! Is this like how Marinette dresses up and calls herself Ladybug sometimes?

Alya: What? No she doesn't! …who told you?

Kim: Wait, that was supposed to be a secret? Oh shit, sorry!

Kim: How about Adrien and Chat Noir, is that a secret too?

884 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 6. November 2022

#4

Since I just saw some Ao3 discourse across my dash again, I just want to say: I think it would be great if there was a similar site to Ao3 that was explicitly kid-friendly and heavily moderated. I’m against turning Ao3 into that site, but I think it would be good if that site existed. I don’t care enough to actually make it happen myself, but I’d probably cross-post some of my stories there and maybe donate to keep it running. This is not meant as some sort of gotcha, I think people should really get on that because it would be a net good for fandom overall.

1.650 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 19. Oktober 2022

#3

The love square in Miraculous Ladybug seems so simple (“hey, that Superman-Lois-Clark thing? What if it went both ways?”), but I am in awe of how finely tuned and balanced it is. Both to make it plausible, and to make it interesting.

The show goes to great lengths to show that all sides (and in particular the two main ones) are absolutely realistic options if it weren’t for the rest. Adrien always liked Marinette and has been positively smitten with her since about season 2. Ladybug was always fond of Chat Noir and this has only increased. The one major time where Ladybug officially rejected Chat Noir, in Glaciator, was also one of the softest and genuinely most romantic moments between the two.

And at the same time, they didn’t make it too simple. The love square is not symmetric when you look at the details. Marinette’s feelings for Adrien and Chat Noir mirror his for Ladybug and Marinette to some extent at a very high level, but if you look down at the details, they’re all developing differently, at different paces, for different reasons, all the time. Chat Noir is the big romantic flirt. Marinette is head over heels and thwarted by anxiety. Both like grand gestures, but for Marinette it’s gifts, for Chat Noir it’s big events.

The show looks so simple, and I guess parts of it are. But the way our heroes interact in the love square is anything but, and that’s what makes it so much fun to watch.

2.190 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 7. Juli 2022

#2

Idea: Reverse Marichat. Marinette is out and night and sees Chat Noir sitting on some random balcony. So she scales up some trees, a gutter pipe and a window to come to him and see what’s up.

3.630 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 1. Oktober 2022

Meine #1 des Jahres 2022

Honestly, society has lost something big when they started putting ads on “Never Gonna Give You Up”. It used to be you clicked a link, and you heard that synth music and you just groaned. Nowadays, you see a link, go, “that might be Rick Astley”, then you click it, Youtube plays an ad for dog food and you see below that is indeed Rick Astley. You go, “ah, yes, that was indeed a link to that music video. Do I feel like watching the video today or not? Probably  not, but I have the entire ad time to decide”. It’s essentially a global “do you really want to get Rickrolled?” filter.

This is really one of the best and most important reasons for using an adblocker: So you can get the proper rickroll experience. Here are some good ones for your platform.

42.217 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 19. Januar 2022

Hol dir deinen Tumblr-Jahresrückblick 2022 →

[fanficmaniatic]

The "Anti-Chat" Theory.

(Which is also why Chat Blanc 2.0 wont work and why Ladybug needs to be akumatized).

This is a turducken on my thoughts for S4 and the future of the show so just roll with it.

So, Season 4 has been wild so far, and if clues given by the writers and people involved in show are any indication, this is only the beginning, we are in for a bumpy ride and things are just going to keep getting worse.

In all the discourse revolving season 4 something that we are all mentioning is how “Chat Blanc” is still a thing and there is no guarantee it won’t happen again. If anything it now seems more likely Chat Noir will get akumatized considering the imminent Ladynoir fallout, and how Adrien is still living with his Father, as his isolation keeps getting worse. And though I am always In for some good Character angst, and I feel like it is necessary for Adrien to know about Chat Blanc, and/or for Chat Blanc to reappear, I don’t think Chat Blanc 2.0 is something Adrien nor the show needs right know.

This theory has many parts, I promise it all ties neatly at the end.

First things first, I may be a little biased, Chat Blanc is an episode I really enjoy. I love Time Travel shenanigans, and I was dying to see Adrien finally find out about his father. The heavy consequences of the episode were obviously erased, but the impact of it all still remains trough Marinette, whom we see in the episode ‘Sentibbubler’ is having nightmares about the whole thing. But still, I love the episode, and I really don’t want an “Stormy Weather 2”… which is an episode I heavily dislike, compared to THE BEST formulaic episode of the Whole show, a.k.a “Stormy Weather” a.k.a My favorite episode. So yeah, this whole first point is just me REALLY not wanting an episode called “Chat Blanc 2.0” But there is more to it, and is the fact that I don’t see how it could work out.

“Chat Blanc 2.0” is unnecessary, and the reason why is that bringing him back wouldn’t actually do anything besides perhaps bringing Ladynoir further apart. Ladybug still CAN’T know Chat noir’s identity, (Let’s be honest and admit that’s prolly s4 finale OR happening during s5) so the show would go out of its way to make his dialogue as plain as possible without mentioning his father being hawkmoth. And yes, I do realize that Chat has been bottling his emotions and it all is likely to come out during THE ladynoir fall out… But people are ignoring the elephant in the room which is that Chat Noir DOES NOT fight Ladybug.

I promise this is relevant.

Chat Noir, unless mind controlled, would never attack Ladybug. The most clear example of this is in “Gamer 2.0” when he straight up says “I could never bring myself to fight you” as he sacrifices himself for her, that added to their classic “Is us against the world, My Lady” every season finale, and Marinette’s “In case something happens to me” In ‘Optygami’, it all could pretty well be a foreshadowing of a Ladynoir fight, where Ladybug is akumatized, and Chat has to willingly fight her. Yes, one could argue that he did fight her during ‘Chat Blanc’, but it could also be read as more of him trying to make her listen.

Where am I going with this? Chat Blanc 2.0 would be unable to bring the nuance the story needs right now. Chat Blanc still wouldn’t fight his father, because I doubt they won’t leave that for season 5. Chat Blanc still doesn’t have a motive to actually fight Ladybug. But the most important part is… What would happen at the end? What would be the change? What conversation are we having? What would be different than what we got in the original Chat Blanc?

To be fair, maybe I am wrong, maybe it can work out, this is just a theory. Maybe all the things I crossed out as impossible will actually happen, but I have been watching the show for 6 years, and If I have learned something about it, is that it is a slow burn, in ALL the aspects.

So yes, I believe Ladybug/Marinette needs to be akumatized, but I also think that Adrien has to learn about Chat Blanc, and that Chat Blanc needs to reappear, having a bigger Role than just a nightmare. So… how does that tie with everything I just said? Easy, the “Anti- Chat” Theory’

So you probably remember “Anti-Bug”, one of the best episodes from season 1, where Chole tries to help Ladybug, she doesn’t listen, and Chloe ends up being akumatized into “Ladybug but evil” … In theory, that is the deal, and is no wonder I am picking Felix Graham De Vanily to fill this role.

From an animation perspective, Felix is the obvious choice, he is identical to Adrien, and if following Anti-bug’s logic in costume desing, that would mean they can reuse Chat Blanc model with no alteration needed.

Now, How would this work? By giving Ladybug a jump scare. She thinks she has to live one of her worst nightmares again, to then find out “Oh… This is not Chat Noir” while still creating enough tension, by looking scared and distraught, that she HAS to tell him that she is scared of him being akumatized WITHOUT actually needing to mention the alternative timeline. This gives Chat noir the chance to lash out, once he realizes this is part of why ladybug is keeping him away, which can lead to Ladybug’s future akumatization.

Why this way? And please hear me out. Chat Noir NEEDS to let his emotions out, and I don’t think lashing out at ladybug is the best way but I see it as necessary. Adrien needs to take on more responsibility while being Chat, but he also needs to learn how to healthy express his emotions, because he is not allowed to do that in his current situation. Ladybug being akumatized because she feels guilty about Chat Noir allows Adrien to do BOTH. Because to save Ladybug he would have to realize “My emotions are valid, and is okey to let them out, but the way I did it was not the right one”, and both Ladybug and Chat Noir would have to apologize because this whole thing is not miscommunication… is a misunderstanding of their partners character. Ladybug needs to relay more on Chat and Chat needs to take on more responsibility… it won’t happen if Ladybug is the one that needs to save Chat Noir.

Adrien needs to realize that he needs to save himself, and that there’s people outside of his father that care for him. Ladybug is this figure that he looks up to and Admires, and is from a side of his life that his father has no control over, (At least from his perspective). So if she forgives him, if they are able to fix their relationship he will realize that things can get better.

Now, going back to Anti-Chat… his deal is way bigger than just bringing The Ladynoir fight… Is about setting up seasons 6 and 7.

What do we know so far? The Love Square and Gabriel’s Hawkmoth is going to come to an end by season 5. Which has left many fans wondering “Then what is happening on seasons 6 and 7?” And the best answer we have so far is in the episode “Timetagger” where Bunnix reveals that there is a whole team of miraculous holders fighting the Hawkmoth of the future, which is by the same episode confirmed to not be Gabriel Agreste. Besides this, I think it is safe to assume that the specials are quietly setting up themes that could come back In seasons 6 and 7.

Now, when speaking about characters that could be future villains the fandom seems to have its collective mind set on two individuals: Lila Rossi, and Felix Graham De Vanily.

Besides ‘Rocketear’, (E17), ‘Wishmaker’ (E18), and the special ’Shadow Moth’s last attack’ (Eps 25&26) we don’t know the names of the episodes of the second half of the season, which is really uncommon for miraculous ladybug, and the reason they gave us as to why is “You would know who is akumatized based on the names”… Which AGAIN, is really uncommon for ML. If you have been in this fandom for a long time you’ll realize that most people working in the show don’t really seem to care about spoilers. Now, this is kinda a conspiracy theory, but If you saw that there was an episode called “Anti-Chat” would you have assume it was any one other than Felix?…. No, right? That’s what I though. Miraculous has proven that it is good at subverting expectations, so when they are pointing at something (like a Chat Blanc 2.0 episode) it may not be as we want or suspected it to be. So I think an Anti-Chat episode makes a lot of sense.

Now, Why am I saying that this can set up future season? Buckle up, pals, here we go. What do we know about Felix?

He is evil, or at the very least seems to be ill-intentioned, if his attitude and look at the end of his episode is anything to go by.

He is after jewelry. Which, yeah, was only shown in that one episode he appeared, but this could pretty much be a foreshadowing of him later on going after the miraculous.

We know that he is bound to appear 3 more times

For this theory to work, I need it to happen in episode 22… Yes, the feared 100th episode of the show. It is not as important why Felix is akumatized, but what is happening WHILE he is akumatized.

Besides what has already been discussed, with Ladybug being scared, Ladynoir should not be able to work together. They are tumbling on each other because Chat Noir feels like she doesn’t trust him, but Ladybug NEEDS his reassurance right now, which he wont give.

This, is directly parallel with what is happening between Anti-Chat and Shadow Moth. Because Felix, even though he wants the miraculous, he won’t let himself be bossed around. He is demanding things from SM, and like in Robustus, Anti-Chat tries to, not just take Ladybug’s and Chat noir’s Miraculous, he wants to destroy Hawkmoth too. Which will lead to Shadow Moth being the reason he gets de-akumatized, instead Ladybug and Chat Noir saving him... bringing more fuel to the Ladynoir fire.

Now, Why should Felix have an attitude with Shadow Moth? Well, my friends… Do you remember, years ago, when the producers of the show said “The peacock miraculous holder will make Hawkmoth look like a baby”…. That’s not Mayura. Nathalie is a great miraculous holder, and she is really clever. But instead of making Gabriel look like a baby, she makes him look smart because he has someone like her on his team. What I am saying with this is that Felix, will suspect/ figure out Gabriel is Hawkmoth at the en of Anti-Chat, and that he will get the peacock miraculous during “The Last attack of Shadow Moth.” Thus, setting up a villain for future seasons.

This makes Felix 3 appearances be: In episode 22 (Anti-Chat), In episode 26 (SM last attack, part 2), and during S5’s finale. Felix situation will be much like Lila’s during s1 and s2 where she was introduced at the end of the first but not used until the end of the second.

Conclusion:

Felix Graham de Vanily has the potential to be a future villain and bring the Ladynoir conflict to finally surface.

And to clarify, The Ladynoir conflict, just like this Felix theory, is not something that will, nor can get resolved in one episode. If anything the fight will be around the end of season 4, and it will get resolved during season 5.

But again, this is just a theory, and I will probably be death wrong, but who knows?

[pisoprano]

This is an ML salt post, particularly about Lila Rossi. If you are actually excited about Lila being the main villain in future season(s), this post isn't for you, I just need to rant. A lot.

I hate Lila Rossi. I hate her with a burning passion. Literally every episode where she shows up, my hatred for this character will manifest in me saying "I hate her" the moment she opens her mouth, followed by seething throughout every moment she spends onscreen.

In prior seasons, this wasn't much of an issue--she'd show up for a couple episodes and then she'd disappear 90% of the time, so I could usually just focus on literally anything else in the show. With season 5, however, she started showing up much more. I knew it was coming, of course--the foreshadowing that she would be the successor to Hawkmoth has been visible since season 3, and it was announced that he'd be gone after this season. But if the show had ended at season 5 as originally intended, butterfly!Lila could have been a theoretical problem for adult!Ladybug and adult!Chat Noir in 10 years. But since the powers that be have decided to have the show continue past Gabriel Agreste, Lila is a problem now and will be a problem at least until Chris Lahiffe is a teenage boy, if "Timetagger" is any indication. And we, the audience, will be forced to suffer through all of it.

Why, though, do I hate the idea of Lila being the main villain? I was fine with having Gabriel in the villain seat for five seasons despite him being a terrible father and manipulative git, after all. With Gabriel, there was a particular humanity to him that made him interesting--this entire show is about love and Gabe's love was so overwhelming and myopic and self-serving that he resorted to villainy while convincing himself that he was secretly the hero all along, sacrificing everything (even his morality) for the woman he loved. He used his love as an excuse to justify the harm he caused Paris and his very own son. As he continually reached for forbidden means to get what he wanted, his dreams ballooned in scope--he'd defied the odds when he'd married above his station, he'd defied the odds when he'd become a world-renowned designer, he'd defied the odds when he found the miraculous and created the perfect son--and so it became all too natural for him to fight the impossible fight as Hawkmoth because he deserved to win this too. And the whole time, unbeknownst to either of them, he's fighting against the son who he's been neglecting and controlling in his fight to save someone who never wanted to be saved? That stuff is fascinating.

Lila, though? She's got none of that complexity. She's a consummate liar who hates the protagonists and literally nothing else. In other shows, she'd be the transfer student who shows up for an episode, gets exposed as a fraud by the end of that episode, and then literally never be seen again. This show, however, has Lila overstay the welcome that her character archetype is built for and instead be a recurring problem. And, because a liar can only get away with lying if the surrounding characters don't know she's lying, Lila is made untouchable by the plot. Other villainous characters have some plot immunity to their evilness--Chloe, obviously, has the automatic win condition of demanding her father to get her out of trouble whenever she wants. But Lila's plot immunity comes from an inexplicable ability to manipulate everyone around her (besides our main protagonists, who are forced to only cry wolf). She makes all the supporting cast love her without help, she does so even to characters we'd expect to know better. When she first showed up, her lies weren't even good and still she gets away with her reputation in tact basically every time. The one time where she does get exposed to everyone, she gets to have an easy redo by making up a completely new identity to try again. She's a Villain Sue. And her very presence weakens the story she's in.

Lila only exists because the writers decided to make an absolute hate sink. They absolutely succeeded in doing so. And frankly, that's a problem. Most of the time, if you're going to have a character in a show for any length of time, they should be likeable on some level. They could be sympathetic or competent or proactive or even just have a personality that's fun to watch, but the audience shouldn't feel like the character is a waste of viewing time. Lila isn't someone the audience can identify with, her competence is largely in name only (I will allow that her manipulative skills during season 5 are stronger, but her ludicrously bad prior lying and the unexplained nature of her sudden hypercompetence now aren't nearly enough to make me forgive her here). Lila's sometimes doing things behind the scenes, sure, but she has the laughably petty objectives of "be famous" and "ruin classmate's life" and I cannot take her actions towards achieving these goals seriously as a bit villain, let alone a primary antagonist. And--worst of all--her voice is extremely annoying. I will suffer through a myriad of things, but I can only listen to nails on a chalkboard so long before need to leave the room.

And this might be a bit of a hot take, but honestly? I don't think Lila was even necessary in the first place. In episodes like "Volpina" or "Oni-Chan," she could have been replaced with Chloe (our original mean girl who's clingy with Adrien--she might not be my favorite character either, but at least she's funny). I'm positive that the plot of "Catalyst" and "Miraculer" could have been reworked to happen without Lila's involvement without much effort. The entire subplot of Lila being Adrien's modelling partner was more about Gabriel controlling his son--it could have been easily about forcing Adrien to be alone instead of forcing him to be with someone he didn't like. The fact that Lila shows up so little in the first four seasons just goes to prove how unnecessary she is. She only becomes important in season 5 because the writers now know that they need to prepare for a new supervillain to fill Gabriel's shoes after he leaves--and she's the only one who comes anywhere close to fitting. So, suddenly, she's being far more active than she ever was (almost half of her total appearances are in season 5 alone), but her motivations are less clear than ever, so I'm left assuming that this hollow character must still have the hollowest of motivations--popularity, power, getting back at the kids who rebuffed her... after having 5 seasons of truly delicious drama, why on earth would I want to turn the worst thing about those 5 seasons into main course?

I know I am far from being alone in hating Lila Rossi's character. There are literally thousands of fics tagged with "Lila's Lies Are Exposed" because so many readers want to see her be punished for her actions. I'm actually not really a fan of these--I don't take joy in seeing Lila being taken down. I want her to disappear from the narrative entirely. If the current state of United States politics has taught me anything, it's that that watching a terrible person get their comeuppance is never as satisfying as you think it will be because that terrible person will keep popping up and keep being terrible and keep forcing you to think about them. The best possible punishment I can think of for Lila is to act like she's just an OC made from some background character that never mattered in the first place--and then never have to think about her existence in the show again.

I was happy to watch the first 5 seasons of Miraculous Ladybug. I wish it had only been those 5 seasons (side note: Chat deserved to go up against his father in the final battle. I get that he couldn't since the mandate for more seasons requires the identities to be intact, but this was the point in the narrative when the reveal was meant to happen and it has weakened the story to move it elsewhere). I haven't decided to not watch season 6 at this point, but knowing who I will have to deal with in every episode? It's making it very difficult for me to want to continue any further.

[purrincess-chat]

I'm tired of hearing how by adrinette dating, they forgot about their partners and that they don't care about each other enough. I might be wrong but wasnt it the kwami's choice to take the miraculous away? And not Adrien and Marinette's?

It was, that's why the arc is named Kwamis Choice, but LN stans are in their butthurt crybaby era so every time canon doesn't exclusively show them making out on screen, they're going to cry that it's an injustice. So like, idk maybe just block them? 😅

I'm sure LB and CN talked about it afterward and realized they were in the same boat or when the new heroes showed up, realized that, hey, maybe Plagg/Tikki took theirs too. But I think their reaction to not being heroes anymore says a lot. Not necessarily about their relationship because being heroes is way more than that, but again, people forget about all of the ways being heroes has traumatized the two of them because they're too busy reducing the LN dynamic to "constantly eye banging each other while mercilessly flirting and occasionally punching a bad guy so they can go back to flirting" which is a very shallow and over exaggerated interpretation of that dynamic. Being heroes is a huge responsibility. Marinette's anxiety hasn't gotten worse since s1 for no reason? She hasn't started having panic attacks just because she feels like it? Being heroes has caused them so many problems, and yes, there has been good to come out of it, but that doesn't make up for all of the bad? Look at the state Marinette was in at the beginning of Transmission. She's being crushed by the weight of the world, and she doesn't know what to do about it. She's in full on mental breakdown mode because she's a hero. Not only a hero, the hero. Everyone counts on her more than Chat Noir because she can fix everything and purify the akuma. She's the guardian. She's the one with the plans that win the fights. And it's crushing her.

So, yeah, excuse her if she feels relieved to be free of that burden and allowed to just be a normal teenager that can have a boyfriend and normal life again. It's not about how she feels about Chat Noir or even about her wanting to date Adrien, it's about her being actively traumatized and pushed to her breaking point over a responsibility she didn't even ask for in the first place. That's why she was relieved. And ya know what, she did think about Chat Noir when shit was going down. They only gave up their miraculouses for like a day, so it wasn't even enough time for everything to sink in yet. They took a deep breath and were trying desperately to embrace normalcy for the first time in months because they're exhausted. Once they had that for a minute, then Marinette said oh shit I hope Chats okay, and then before she could dwell on that further, they were back again.

But most people don't care about them as characters, they just want to watch them fight bad guys and flirt forever rather than having any of the meaningful development happening this season that they're ignoring because it's not the dynamic they wanted, and they think two people helping each other heal trauma is boring. So, again, to my original point, just block anyone having a tantrum over LN being platonic this season. It's easier.

[purrincess-chat]

X

I hear fans saying that ladrien sucks because canon doesn’t give us any crumbs but ummm hello? How is marichat the most popular ship then because marichat is also not very much prevalent in the show. Ladynoir and adrinette have always been the primary focus. And ladrien and marichat have been equally shown. Like in s1 we had evillustrator and Simon says and volpina, in s2 glaciator and befana and style queen and gorizilla, in s3 weredad and desperada, in s4 glaciator 2 and ephemeral and strike back. I think the only time ladrien got less than marichat was in s5 but even then there was deflagration. So I definitely don’t understand the narrative that ladrien is given less attention than marichat. It’s just that mc stans dgaf about canon and make outlandish claims.

(I think I submitted this ask before but I’m not sure it reached. So I’m sorry for ranting in your inbox twice.)

It did not reach me the first time (yay tumblr!) So good call. I was actually thinking after I responded to a previous ask recently about how people want Adrien and Marinette to breakup to restore balance, and my thought was: what balance? Because you're right the love square has never been "balanced" between the sides. LN and Adrinette always had the most screentime and development, and up until s4 MC actually had the least. Yet, it was the most popular ever since Evillustrator aired. It's only been in the last couple seasons that Ladrien has had less screentime than they had been getting (s4 and 5 didn't have a designated "ladrien" episode like prior seasons, I mean), but we still had some pretty big moments with them.

It's just always some people's excuse to shit on Ladrien because they see it as a threat to their favorite side because instead of recognizing that the love square is the same two people, they view each side as its own ship that's competing with the other 3. That's why the Ladrien tag gets filled with bullshit rankings and favorite ship polls because people don't understand what the love square is or how it operates. The sides aren't working against each other. They're all working in tandem toward one goal: an eventual post reveal relationship between the two where all sides converge and form a singular dynamic. But peoples response to Adrinette being canon just proves that people don't understand that. I think that's the most annoying part of it to me is that it so clearly demonstrates that people don't understand the show/this ship. Like it's one thing to be a bit bummed your favorite side wasn't the one that got to be canon official (and stick for longer than an episode) but it's another thing to claim the show is ruined, it's bad writing, bad for the characters, toxic, unfair, unhealthy, boring, etc.

Honestly, it's so wild to me how this fandom treats the requited sides of the square. Up until s5, people didn't like Ladrien because it was requited and "boring" and "they don't even have to try" and "all they do is blush and stammer" (which isn't even the Ladrien dynamic at all, but I digress) and now that Adrinette is canon I see those exact same arguments being flung. Interestingly, I saw posts after Elation aired from MC stans whining that MC is boring and "like Ladrien" now, and it honestly melted my brain a little. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the point of ships that they get together? Is that not what we want? I'd get it if it were some random background ship with no hope of ever coming to fruition but this is the flagship of the whole show. We are supposed to want them to like each other back and get together...

This fandom is a cesspool honestly. I see people hurt themselves in confusion every day about this ship. Ladrien has always gotten the short end of the stick in this fandom, for no real reason other than people are weird and lack the ability to comprehend the media they consume. It's annoying, but that's what the block button is for. 🤷‍♀️

[purrincess-chat]

Hi I'd love it if you could make an analysis on Adrien and Marinette this season. I've been seeing too many people say that their characters have been ruined and so and so. Your takes and opinions are really fresh and actually smart, so I'd love to hear what you have to say.

I would absolutely love to talk about them. The notion that their characters have been ruined comes directly from a butthurt place of salt, and it just demonstrates to me that people are not watching this show with their eyes open. I know we are missing a lot of context for this season, but so far from what I’ve seen of the later episodes, their characters are maturing and developing in ways we’ve been begging for since s2. And to understand that, we’re going to look back at the last couple seasons up until now.

CAUTION: I will be discussing all of the currently aired episodes, so if you have not watched anything past Elation or Transmission and don’t want to be spoiled for later episodes, go ahead and keep scrolling. I will not be discussing leaks, so you are safe from those. Let’s dig in, shall we?

Firstly, I think we need to address something I’ve seen people claiming in their tantrums about how Adrien and Marinette are “ruined,” and that’s this idea that Adrien’s feelings came out of nowhere/they weren't actually friends before now. They didn’t and they were. They’ve actually been hinting at his budding feelings for her for a while, we just didn’t know for sure that was happening until now. Hell, one of the biggest clowns on his character since s1 was literally “sHe’S jUsT a fRiEnD” when he’s literally making heart eyes at her and talking about how great she is, but I want to focus specifically on the moments that take place after Puppeteer 2 because Adrien himself cited that episode as the point when he noticed his feelings for her changing. And him saying that wasn’t a retcon or random. They actually started dropping mad hints after that episode, we just weren’t 100% aware that his feelings officially changed. I made another post a couple months ago with several instances that hinted at Adrien’s changing feelings, but let’s talk about those a little more.

I’m going chronologically, so not necessarily in broadcast order, but if we look at the production codes, Puppeteer 2 was episode 21 of s3. The next episode after that? Chat Blanc. Everyone clowned on Adrien for “only liking Marinette because she’s Ladybug,” but looking back on it, his sudden feelings aren’t so sudden after all. We’ll talk more about Chat Blanc later because as we know, this timeline got erased, and Marinette is the only one that kind of knows about it. Which brings us to Ladybug, and possibly one of Adrien’s darkest moments as far as things he consciously said and did. Up until this point, Adrien had always been kind of soft and mild-mannered, not wanting to stir up trouble to a fault, but the end of this episode is the first time we see him righteously pissed as Adrien. Another tidbit to point out from earlier in s3 that relates to this moment is from Oni-chan when Adrien tells Lila that he won’t support her or be her friend if she hurts the people he loves. Jump back to Ladybug when Adrien holds that friendship over her head again to restore Marinette’s reputation. Adrien isn’t the type of character to be shady or underhanded, but he is the type of character to fiercely protect the people he cares about, and in this instance, that person is Marinette. That moment was a huge indicator about how Adrien feels about Marinette and how much he values her/their relationship.

Next, we have the first instance where Adrien truly stops and ogles over Marinette in Heart Hunter. We’ve joked in the past that he gives her soft looks all the time, but this is the first time that he full-stopped and admitted out loud that he thinks she’s attractive. And he does it twice in that episode. Not to mention how badly he wanted her to run away with them, and how disappointed he was when she left. Additionally, we have him being conflicted over his feelings for Kagami over the next several episodes. He hesitates and isn’t sure how he feels. We all thought it was because he still loved Ladybug, which he did, but now we can see there was also unconscious feelings for Marinette swirling around in the mix. (RIP Adrigami) Marinette was always an obstacle in their relationship both as Ladybug and as herself, even unknowingly. It’s actually Marinette’s lucky charm keychain that pushes Kagami to break up with Adrien in Lies after all of his erratic and wishy-washy behavior toward her, signaling that Marinette would always be between them.

Season 4 brought forth several small hints, the cutest one being Mr. Pigeon 72. Adrien gets distracted several times by Marinette in this episode, which isn’t necessarily weird when he thinks he sees her during his dive, but the moment in the end when he bumps his head on the car because he can’t take his eyes off her? Boy was falling hard. One thing I find really interesting is that Adrien falls for Marinette at her most unhinged. He tells Kagami in Protection that he just always thought Marinette acting weird was part of her charm and found it cute (think back to how softly he smiles at her in Optigami when she’s freaking out over the elevator or how enamored he is with her acting crazy in Psychomedian). Seeing the context of these moments in retrospect when Adrien talks about how he felt during them just confirms that their relationship was always deeper than it seemed. His side of the story as it relates to their relationship has always been missing, and maybe that's what people mean when they say their relationship was underdeveloped? We always saw things through Marinette's lens, and of course, she freaks out and overthinks and doesn't think Adrien will reciprocate her feelings. It's refreshing to see his perspective and understand what he was thinking and feeling during some of those key moments, and it gives us more insight to the nature of their relationship this whole time.

Next we have Ephemeral, which I know this timeline also got erased, but I’ve always seen the ‘what if’ reveal episodes as a way of checking in on how the love square is doing development wise. In Chat Blanc, Adrien’s feelings for Marinette were still budding, and while it did make it easier when he learned her identity, I think his reaction in Ephemeral was much more telling about their relationship. People have said that Adrinette were “barely even friends” before s5, but I think Ephemeral proves that’s not true. (I mean, watching canon with your eyes open prior to that also proves that’s not true, but I digress). The moment Marinette reveals herself to Adrien in Ephemeral, he tells her how happy he is to find out that one of his best friends in the whole world is also his partner and the girl he loves. By Ephemeral, Adrien sees Marinette as one of his best friends, and that point continues in Risk when he confides in her about his homelife. He tells her that he doesn’t want to tell everyone else his true feelings because “they wouldn’t understand,” but he opens up to Marinette because they are close enough that he deemed she would listen. And people say that one moment was when his feelings changed, but that moment was just when all of the other hints came to a head for him. He didn’t fall in love with her in that one moment, he’d been falling for her slowly all throughout s4, and he was even still falling into s5 and didn’t realize he was in love until Determination.

Risk was just the moment that pushed him over the edge because he realized she was someone he could confide in, someone who would listen to him and understand his feelings without projecting another narrative onto him. And we’ve seen Marinette working on that throughout s5. She’s stepping back and letting him be who he wants to be and encouraging him to make his own choices. Adrien literally says in Transmission that the Adrien everyone else knows is a marketing image. Gabriel states in Pretension that he crafts the perfect images to sell to people, pretty much implying that he is in direct control over how the world sees Adrien and the person everyone thinks he is. Marinette is the only person that sees beneath the surface of that and wants to help him do something about it. And people think that’s “ruining” their characters? By letting them grow closer and fight for and support each other? By letting Adrien figure things out and work toward his own autonomy? Yall want him to stay lonely and miserable under his dad’s control forever? Weird take, but okay. Like it or not, his relationship with Marinette has been building up since the beginning, and we’ve seen them make big strides each season. Nothing about what’s happening in s5 is random, nor was it thrown in casually. The signs were there the whole time, sorry yall missed them.

Secondly, I want to look at LadyNoir, the big source of everyone’s grief, but in the same way the Adrinette hints were all there throughout s4, the LadyNoir hints leading them to where they are were abundant as well in s4. Looking back in the context we have now, LadyNoir and Adrinette had an inverse relationship in s4. The more Adrien fell for Marinette, the more his feelings for Ladybug faded, and their conflict last season had a lot to do with it. Ladybug pulled away from him a lot last season, and I don’t think it was entirely intentional or conscious. She was dealing with a lot and scrambling to juggle her new responsibility with Shadowmoth on the loose, Su Han bitching in her ear, Alya knowing her secret. And unfortunately, the more she pulled away, the more hurt Chat Noir got, so he pulled away more, which in turn made her start relying on other heroes more, which created even more distance, you get the idea. I think there are two key episodes that point to 1. Why Chat Noir stopped loving Ladybug and 2. Why LadyNoir could not have worked romantically. (actually there are 3 episodes about why LadyNoir can’t work romantically, but we will get to those in a minute)

The first episode deals with the reason Chat Noir moved on from Ladybug, and that’s Glaciator 2.0. Prior to this, Ladybug had been softer in her rejection of him, but still firm with the public that there was nothing romantic going on between them. She does care about his feelings, and if we recall the first Glaciator episode, she tells him that she doesn’t want to toy with his emotions or lead him on. She is sensitive to the way he feels, but she also stands her ground that she’s not interested. In Glaciator 2, we have the two of them already being a little at odds with each other from the growing distance between them in s4, and we also have Ladybug at her most stressed. So she snaps. And I think that episode did stick with him and play a huge role in why he moved on. She makes it abundantly clear in that episode that she doesn’t love him, has never loved him, and will never love him. She set very clear boundaries with him in that episode, and we’ve seen those boundaries stick with the way Adrien treats Marinette in s5. He’s not pushy, he’s patient, he lets her lead their interactions. That episode affected him. That episode alone is why it's not surprising that he moved on. She'd been telling him for 3 seasons she wasn't into him like that. He finally listened.

The other episode that points to the big problem with romantic LadyNoir is Kuro Neko. People don’t want to hear this, but LadyNoir does not function effectively when Ladybug in particular is distracted by love. We saw this in Desperada, we saw this again in Kuro Neko. She gets too distracted, and things don’t work. We see teasings of this in Determination when Ladybug gets distracted by Chat Noir, and they almost lose until he snaps her out of it. Granted, she was also still down about losing everything, but the point still stands that she does not do well when she’s in love with her partner. Contrast that with the way they effortlessly work together at the beginning of Perfection. They’re holding a whole ass other conversation while fighting bad guys as if they were doing anything else. Their mojo is back, and they’re getting along better than ever as friends. Romance was always a point of contention for them, and now they don't have to worry about it. They can just do their job.

Now, I know a lot of people are also of the mindset that they should just reveal their identities already, but we have two examples of why that’s a bad idea as well. Chat Blanc and Ephemeral prove that they will work well together post-reveal, BUT the main obstacle in their way is Hawkmoth. It’s too dangerous for them to reveal their identities while he is still around because as we’ve seen, they get reckless and careless and Gabriel sniffs them out. They lose. (yes, I count Chat Blanc as a loss). So long as Gabriel is still around and pulling the strings, they cannot tell each other their identities. They’ve said that on numerous occasions. It’s not a matter of compatibility because we know they’re made for each other, that much has always been clear. It’s a matter of practicality and dangerousness. It’s not safe for them to reveal right now, and I think the writers wanted to push them through the development they’re getting first, which brings me to my next point.

This season is about healing trauma, particularly Marinette’s, but also increasingly so Adrien’s. And the only way they could go about healing the particular trauma these two are dealing with is the way they’re doing it. Adrinette was the side that offered the most opportunity for that development by becoming canon, and I don't care if that pisses people off when I say that. "But best friends to lovers is better-" okay, but you're ignoring a lot of important context that I’ve talked about. Mixing their jobs as heroes with their romantic feelings is actively detrimental to their job. Ladybug loses focus, Chat behaves recklessly, Hawmoth literally learned their identities and took advantage of that. The world got destroyed, the universe nearly got rewritten. But yeah go off about how much better things would be if the heroes got together, especially in the season where stakes are at an all-time high and them focusing on the mission is absolutely crucial.

They needed development as civilians, but that doesn't make them less deserving of love, nor does it “ruin” their characters. That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. Marinette needed to overcome her hesitation and anxiety around Adrien. Because what good would it do them to date as heroes because she ran away from her problems with another boy only to turn around and find out that the boy she was running from is the same boy she ran to? Do people think that reveal would go well with her still not having healed from that? A huge point at the beginning of the season was that she was running away from her problems and throwing herself at someone else instead of dealing with her trauma. Marinette needed to turn around and face her feelings for Adrien. She needed to face the mistakes she made as a result of loving Adrien specifically and heal from that. And ya know what? Allowing Adrinette to date fixed Ladrien without them even having to appear next to each other. It allows Ladybug and Chat Noir to focus on their mission without their feelings getting in the way. It allows both of them the opportunity to be happy and get shit done. And ya know what, since they're healing trauma, they're gonna be ecstatic when the reveal eventually happens. We loved each other the whole time? You're actually my best friend in and out of the suit? You're gonna be at my wedding next to me marrying me? We're gonna grow old together? All sides are benefitting this season, and yes, being platonic is a benefit for some sides. Just because it wasn't what some people wanted doesn't change that. I swear some people just wanted to treat the sides as separate forever and only ever have good things happen for their favorite. I saw it all the time when people would pout about one side getting development in episodes in prior seasons. Personally, I am in it for the whole picture because I know it will be more beautiful in the end if every side gets worked on. I'm here for the love square, not just Adrinette, but it seems like some people forgot we’re all on the same ship.

Additionally, it’s not really a big secret that they’re winding down the Agreste plot. This season will resolve that storyline, so they needed to bring the Agreste plot to the frontline, and it wouldn’t have worked with LadyNoir. Marinette needed to see first-hand how bad Adrien’s situation is. We still don’t have all of the pieces, but later episodes show how desperately they’re fighting to be together and to free Adrien from his father’s control. They could not have put her that close to the situation with LadyNoir because they can’t reveal for reasons I’ve already mentioned, and as such, Chat Noir can’t tell her about his home life. LadyNoir being together would have been self-contained. It wouldn’t have propelled the other sides forward in the way they needed to. Marinette would still assume that disasters happen when she pursues Adrien. She’d likely still blame herself for being blinded by love for losing all of the Miraculous. She’d likely still distance herself from him, which would remove Adrien’s confidant about his home situation. The story they’re telling wouldn’t work. And that’s the other thing, we don’t know all of the details about the story they’re telling yet. (I mean, unless you’ve read leaks, but we’re not talking about those rn). Obviously, Adrinette being canon was important to the story, and I am personally just not seeing it as a detriment because I’ve seen all of the positives that have come from it in later episodes. Their characters are growing and maturing. They’re supporting each other. They’re fighting for each other. Is that not what we’ve always loved about the love square? The way they complement each other? How deeply they love each other and how much they sacrifice for each other?

The only conclusion I can come to about anyone saying their characters have been ruined is that they haven’t watched anything past Transmission. And not only that, they’re making a ton of bad faith assumptions about Transmission and the next episode after it in order to justify their outcry. But as someone who has watched every episode officially released right now, their development this season is solid. On all sides. There is a huge difference between not particularly liking something and something being bad. People would do well to learn the difference.