#minhag hamakom

[laineystein]

Respect. It’s so simple. 💁🏻‍♀️

[etz-ashashiyot]

Okay so here's a weird (highly specific) gerische feel:

As far as I can prove (which is my mother's side of the family, but mostly her mother, because my biological grandfather was totally estranged by the time my mom married my father and I've never met him) I have no Jewish ancestry

However

I do have German ancestry and learned a bit of German in my younger years (but otherwise have no cultural connections to it)

My beit din was actually mixed minhag so I have the option of choosing Ashkenazi or Sephardi

I adore Sephardic food and music and liturgy, and if I were choosing a minhag in a vacuum I would honestly choose it, however,

When I learn Yiddish music and sing in Yiddish, it feels like home, like I was made to make these sounds and sing these melodies, and,

My body has a hard time processing food in general, but you know what it doesn't typically have issues with and which I actively enjoy eating? Gefilte fish, pickled herring, beets, shredded horseradish, garlic, pickles.... etc.

.......I may or may not have seasoned my bowl of matzah ball soup this past year at seder with shredded horseradish

Conclusion: I think my germanic heritage has ensured I remain painfully Ashkenazi and I should probably just embrace it lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I still typically just follow the minhag hamakom, though, at least with davening)

[anonymousdandelion]

Desperate for a Hebrew translation of the Liaden Universe.

Partly so Israelis can discover this wonderful series… partly so I can practice my own language skills in a fun way…

…but primarily so the book about Anne and Er Thom can be entitled Minhag HaMakom.

[coffeeshoprabbi]

What is Minhag?

Image: A dark blue kippah on an open prayer book. (ESchwartz/pixabay)

A beginner asked me recently, “What is minhag? I know, I know, you are going to say “custom!”

She was right – I was going to say, “Custom,” and feel like I’d answered the question. After some conversation, I think I have a better idea what she was after – and I suspect she isn’t the only person out there with that question.

The…

[jewish-burrito]

אני כועסת מאוד עכשיו

I am very angry right now

A law has been proposed in the Knesset that would make the minhag hamakom of the Kotel Haredi by default as well as give total control of the Kotel to Rabinowitz. I learned about it from a post on a very ultra-Orthodox Facebook page. I usually refrain from commenting on pages like this, but the post is directly attacking Women of the Wall (a prayer group that is well within the boundaries of halakha) and you all know how intense I am about them. This was my comment regarding their tefillah:

[Begin Comment]

זה בגבולות ההלכה, אבל חס ושלום שנשים מתפללים כרצונם. הכותל שייך לכל היהודים---לא רק חרדים.

It is within the boundaries of halakha, but has v'shalom that women pray as they please. The Kotel belongs to all Jews---not just Haredim.

[End Comment]

There was a threat/picture with the post as well.

[ID: A blonde woman wearing tefillin holds up a small Sefer Torah in the women's section of the Kotel while surrounded by other women---many of whom are wearing tallitot. A red X is in center of the picture and part of it covers almost half of the Sefer Torah.//End ID]

[wenevergotusedtoegypt]

Is it Halacha that a woman has to cover her legs/ankles by wearing tights? If so, where does it say that?

It Depends Who You Ask.™

The Gemara says that a woman’s “shok” is “erva,” an objectively sensual area of the body which must be covered. All agree that the shok is part of the leg. The question is which part of the leg. The Mishna Berura says that it’s the upper half of the leg. This means that a woman’s skirt would have to cover her knees, but there is no strictly halachic (stay tuned for why I’m phrasing it that way) need to cover the leg below the knee. The Chazon Ish, on the other hand, says that the shok is the lower part of the leg - that it is self-evident the upper part of the leg is erva, so there is no need to explicitly state that, but we might have thought that the lower part was not erva had we not been told. In his opinion, the lower part of the leg would indeed need to be covered.

That’s the purely halachic dimension. However, tznius also involves a concept called minhag hamakom - literally “the custom of the place,” but nowadays “place” can sometimes refer to a hashkafic community rather than a physical location. What this essentially means is that if it is the accepted norm in a place/community for people to cover MORE than what the letter of the law requires, it is incumbent upon women in that place/community to do so. While it’s not halacha in that sense that it’s universal, it is binding within that context. So there may very well be situations where a person’s community holds by the Mishna Berura’s opinion - that the shok is the upper leg - but the standard in that community is still to wear tights as a minhag hamakom. (There is no problem with covering MORE than the minhag hamakom requires, but one cannot cover LESS.)

What I have not ever found a satisfactory answer to is why some people who hold by the Chazon Ish’s opinion would allow tights rather than ankle-length skirts, given that a skintight covering is not acceptable for any other part of the body that is considered erva.  

Interestingly, while the Alter Rebbe rules like the Chazon Ish - which I would certainly think would preclude sheer tights even if you could justify opaque ones somehow - the vast majority of Chabad women I have ever encountered have no problem with sheer tights. It’s my personal theory that wearing tights (of any kind, including sheer) has become the minhag hamakom in most of Chabad and that halachically they are holding like the Mishna Berura rather than the Alter Rebbe…though most people I have encountered don’t know the sources well enough to realize that’s the case and be doing so purposefully. (I’m open to being proven wrong in this theory, but I don’t see any other way to make sense of the prevalence of sheer tights among Chabad women who take tznius seriously.) Being that that’s the case, I personally always wear tights in public, but have no problem with them being sheer so long as it’s evident to others that I’m wearing them without having to squint.

Ultimately a person should look to what the norm is in their community when deciding what to do. Communities where tights aren’t required have on whom to rely as do those that do require them.

[adamavshamayim]

There used to be days I would count down to when I move to a new community. Being that as a BT the community I’ve been into until now has been where I flipped out. People there saw every part of the process. They also kind of treated me a certain way that made me feel like an outsider, so I looked forward to moving somewhere new.

What I didn’t anticipate about moving somewhere new is that now, for the first time, I have minhagim that are different from this place! And I find myself playing the ‘whose minhag will we follow in this situation’ game where I’m comparing what I’ve picked up from my old community in two years to the family minhagim of FFBs which just feels...new for me. I guess before mine were conveniently minhag hamakom so I felt more comfortable then than I do now trying to push them forward in those conversations. But yeah, I guess it does feel good that I’m coming to a New Place already frum and we’ll see soon how those social dynamics go.

[jochenhayek]

Judaism: "minhag hamakom"

Judaism: “minhag hamakom”

https://reformjudaism.org/noindex/minhag-hamakom

[laineystein]

LOL to me posting about feeling the need to wear my modest athletic wear out on my run this morning (because I’m staying with family that adheres to halachic modesty standards and: minhag hamakom, ie. it’s disrespectful for me to dress/act in a way that is contrary to the majority…especially if I am a guest in their home) but also championing Israeli women fighting back against frum communities that have been extremely vocal, often times in a way that focuses on public shame, for policing their clothing.

Welcome to the Israeli secular/frum struggle. Welcome to the two opposing worlds I have existed in my entire life.

Being a Jew is fun.

[laineystein]

I can’t sleep so let’s unpack this…

I’ve always known that I’d come back. I didn’t know when — probably because I never thought I would have spent as much time back in the US as I have. Life is funny. Hashem has plans we often don’t understand; plans I have stopped questioning.

I wanted my life, the big parts, to happen here. It was disappointing to even think of getting engaged in the States . The thought of having children in the States has always terrified me. I had accepted that if I got married I’d need to possibly compromise and have a wedding in the States. But I wanted my Israeli wedding too. If I did have a chuppah in New York it wouldn’t be for me. My Tel Aviv wedding would be for me. But we’ll hop back to this soon.

I guess I didn’t realize how much I needed everything to happen here. What I’ve always known and what has become so insanely clear these past few days is that Israel is always where I was supposed to be. I knew this. This has always felt like home. I’m myself here. So much of my life in the States was about being who that world needed me to be. Minhag hamakom - a method of fitting in. It wasn’t optional in school that I cover up my body. It was technically optional outside of school but it didn’t make sense when my friends and the people I surrounded with followed tzniut regardless of the setting. But my summers in Israel were my chance to be myself, to dress and act how I wanted. And then the summers would end and I’d go back to the US and exist in that world until I could do it all over again.

Being back — getting engaged here, celebrating with my family here, feeling joy with my friends here…indescribable. There are literally no words. I said it in a post the other night but I don’t want formalities of vorts and fancy dinners and gifts. I want my l’chaims. I want friends showing up unannounced, no pretenses and all the loud music. I do not have to explain myself here. I can be exactly who I’ve always been meant to be. I don’t need to be covered or constantly so put together. I don’t think most people understand how intense the contrast is between being an American Jew and being an Israeli Jew. They are quite literally different worlds. And I’ve never fit into the world with my American Jewish friends. I have tried. Maybe I’ve even fooled some people. But it’s not me. It’s not my parents either but like most immigrants they have always felt the need to assimilate. Israel was this place that most Jews we lived near wanted to live but they didn’t fully understand our culture or our world view. It’s odd to revere a place but struggle to truly respect its people.

Then there’s my life at the hospital where I’m extremely selective with what I share, mostly to keep things professional. But so much of who I am is the place I come from and the things I believe in. Those things won’t matter in Israel and I can’t wait. I won’t have to be so private. I won’t worry that someone will have an ignorant comment about Israel. I also won’t have derogatory comments made behind my back about how I get Fridays and Saturdays off. I may have to work those days in Israel and that’s okay! When you’re surrounded by Jews, someone has to. 

So for the first time in my life I’m not doing anything that anyone else wants me to do. I have played that game for so long. I will play it for my last month there. I will do what my partner’s family wants to keep the peace. I will tolerate the deep antisemitism that exists surrounding my American Jewish world. These things will be bearable because they are not my forever. I will miss my shul but I love my shul in Israel more. I will miss my apartment and my job but I love my apartment in Tel Aviv more and I’m so incredibly excited for my new position and all the opportunities it is giving me. Nothing beats Shab with my grandparents in Israel. I’m a woman of the desert. I need constant nature and more sunshine. I deserve this world I am finally able to claim as mine — forever.

And we have decided that we’ll do it all: the vorts and the somewhat stuffy Shab dinners and the low key modesty. We have also considered doing very tourist-y things. Growing up in New York is so much different than being a transplant and certainly different than being a visitor. I’ve been in One World Trade Center because my partner works there. I’ve never been to the observation. I’ve never been to the Empire State Building. I haven’t been to so many museums in years. I usually avoid Central Park during peak times. A Knicks game, a cheesy Broadway show, the Vessel. Yes. Let’s do it. Soon that city won’t be ours anymore. Let’s treat it like a stranger.

This was kind of all over the place but I am full of joy, my heart is so full it is ready to burst, and for once I’m not dreading heading back. It’s all so temporary now. There’s a finality in our move. There’s something definite to look forward to. What a blessing!

THANK YOU, HASHEM! 🥰🥰🥰

This trip has brought everything into an intense hyper-focus. There was never any doubt but I am so incredibly relieved to be moving back. This is where I’m supposed to be. This is the life I’m supposed to have. This is the version of me that I like and have always liked.

B”H B”H B”H

[wenevergotusedtoegypt]

Ok but like...what does that mean? Like I think I’m strict on tznius according to what I believe is required and according to the minhag hamakom of my community, but my strict does not involve tights with seams, which to someone else is lenient, so....

[wenevergotusedtoegypt]

raizeleh replied to your photo: Ok but like…what does that mean? Like I think I’m...

Yeah but assuming this for a shidduchim/online dating site, are the people who are makpid on tights with seams using this site? I could be wrong on that but I just assume those type of people aren’t really doing online dating (or anything online at all), they’re strictly using IRL shadchanim. I feel like you’re probably on the stricter side of tznius when it comes to people who date online. But like I said, I could be wrong and the ladies who do wear seamed tights are all about online dating lol

The seams were an arbitrary choice of “standards for tznius some people have that I do not,” though, chosen as a more extreme example. More moderately, while I don’t go out in public without tights (because that is minhag hamakom for my community), I will wear tights that are extremely sheer (because that is in compliance with the minhag hamakom and with the Mishna Berura’s opinion on the shok). And while I won’t wear a skirt that doesn’t cover my knees at all times, I don’t hold to the (what I believe is arbitrary and not based at all in actual halacha) 4 inches below the knee rule (although plenty of my skirts happen to meet it because I’m short). And while I don’t wear red, I do sometimes wear brighter colors than some would. My point is that the categories don’t have any real standards by which to decide which one to pick, to the point of being pretty much useless.