#metaphysics of thedas

[amaryllis-sagitta]

I've always disliked the spirit origin theory and I finally know why

To put it briefly: it's the cornerstone of the Thedosian brand of gnostic pessimism ingrained in the worldbuilding around both Fade spirits and elves, that subtly condemns their existence among the living no matter how hard the writing tries to compensate in the other direction (and to be fair, it hardly ever does).

I have already mentioned in several analyses that the worldbuilding in Dragon Age is trying to impose some objective moral order through the system of virtues embodied by Fade spirits and the speculated position of the Maker, illustrated through the visual allegory of The Gaze. Every place where the Gaze does not fall is identified as the Void - the realm of the Blight, demonic whisperings, evil in mortals' souls, oblivion and erasure.

This moral compass ingrained in Thedosian worldbuilding is outlined in the Canticle of Threnodies. I have always posited that we can read the Canticle's "Maker" as a purely formal locus meant to hook up some form of prisca theologia that would be partially true regardless of whom we put in the Maker's seat.

For example: the Canticle claims that when "The Maker" created the physical world from a portion of the Fade itself, then Their firstborn, Fade spirits, turned away from their perfect resonance with the Maker. They envied what they were not, and for this poisoning of the heavenly "song" with discordant (so, evil) intentions, the Maker castigated them, declared them the first demons, and made humans Their "chosen" race -- presumably, this time building them of both Earth and Spirit so that they would not envy partaking in either.

After multiple hints left in DAI Trespasser, that sparked speculation about the spirit origin theory as the dominating fan theory years ago, DATV confirmed that the "firstborn elvhen" were Fade spirits that manifested physically. They used lyrium, the blood of the Earth's Titans, to build themselves physical bodies. The Stone retaliated, and the first elvhen waged a war with it, eventually devising a way to sunder the spirit essence/ dreams from all Titans. It is heavily implied that this choice to carry out their existence on Earth as war and conquest has twisted whatever the "virtuous" spiritual nature was left in the Evanuris, and that after the end of that war, Elgar'nan simply could not stop.

Why would they do it though? While some concept art from the artbook shows spirits observing primordial dwarves dwarfing, in the end, the Regret mural that shows Mythal inviting Solas into the world explicitly tells us he had no desire to live "as HUMANS" (and the story fails to bridge that lore drop with the known lore about humans allegedly arriving to Thedas from across the seas, and only being able to thrive after the Veil).

So, despite disproving the story about the Chantry's Maker creating the Veil, the writing confirms the Chant's initial overtly anthropocentric orientation. Humans were always special and spirits were always meant to backup and store their ethically charged concepts. But the important accomplishment here is that spirits/ elvhen are doomed with an inherent moral error that snowballs into inevitable strife, destruction and error!

But wait, there's more! Because now that we have the anthropocentrism as our implied position towards the Thedosian races, the history of the elvhen race looks even more like some bizzare form of "karmic" reckoning that completely misses the point of a reckoning, to replace it with unwarranted generational punishment. First, as a result of the Great Betrayal, the elvhen are sundered from their connection to the spirit essence, and thus subjected to the Quickening, which I guess is supposed to be a way of the world giving the elvhen a taste of their own medicine and saying "Be careful what you wish for". Then, once they are finally effectively like humans in every metaphysical respect (unbeknownst to everyone except the remaining ancient elvhen), the moral corruption of the Evanuris gets passed on as the Tevinters learn to glorify blood sacrifice at the behest of their Old Gods (who are really Evanuris speaking through their Archdemons, at any capacity they still have left). This gets used to further humiliate the remainders of ancient Arlathan. What happened to the elvhen now gives Solas reason to hate the mortal physical existence of elves twofold.

The fact that elves keep being punished by the narrative is a direct result of BioWare implementing the spirit origin theory the way they did, because it was devised as a scenario of original sin that necessitates conflict and moral downfall, and ends up snowballing into dooming elves through and through.

But more than that, as I have mentioned in another post, on the metaphysical level, "pure" spirits should be occupied solely with their respective defining abstracts. Spirits should know no desire. Desire is the "unquenchable flame" that defines humans. As far as DAO, we would read that the more benevolent spirits prefer to sit back in the Fade and not interfere with the mortals, and the ones with the greatest drive to join the living are predatory demons.

And the reason for all of this is "the Maker" being bored of perfection in the Golden City, and wanting some change. That the world requires change and opposition to let its best aspects shine is not an controversial idea. However, in the Dragon Age worldbuilding, this necessity for change is not introduced under a milder Hermetic assumption that, even after being cast down into a darker realm of the incarnate, one can successfully control their mundane passions and heal their soul from corrupting influences whilst existing physically... Not on the grand scale, at least.

Once spirits decided to enter the physical world, they started acting like they were trapped and forced to fight for their lives (despite them being the trespassers). The vast majority of them got spiritually corrupted (if they didn't represent vices like Tyranny from the get-go), they dragged their hesitant kin down with them through manipulation. The elvhen race fell into tyranny as their "First" were actually the worst, yet people looked up to them for survival. One particularly inventive specimen devised two catastrophic tools -- one, to deflect onto the Titans whatever should have happened to the first elvhen in order to sunder what has been wrongly joined; the other, to sunder the tyrannical Evanuris from the rest of the elvhen and spirits and stop their corrupting influence. Yet, because the world changes, the collateral of one such tool introduced a wholly new type of rampant evil, and the collateral of the other made the whole elvhen race spiral down... even further into their entrapment in physicality!

The way they built up the spirit origin theory, it draws a full circle: first, the Southern Chantry and the Dalish demonize Fade spirits - one for dogmatic reasons, because it sees the marriage of spirit and flesh as something that is evil even in humans, the other because they can't be denied that healthy cackle of metaphysical irony even if they try their hardest. Then, with DAI Solas and Cole, we're acquainted with a more sympathetic understanding of Fade spirits as being that are fundamentally different but operate on a logic that doesn't automatically lead to a shitshow of a moral downfall. But then, we learn that a group of spirits doomed the entire world to millennia of strife because they felt curiosity for the Other and because the choice to cross the great threshold almost automatically made them forget the virtues they supposedly embodied and spiral down into the "lower" survival instincts.

Personally, I believe that spirits & elvhen could be built on a fundamental existential difference in a way that would have made their excursions into each other's realm temporary. I believe that the spirit origin theory, even if upheld, could have been taken in a direction that didn't imply instant rampant and thoughtless colonialism on the elvhen part. I believe that such choices would have enforced worldbuilding that didn't need to condemn the spirits/ elvhen with that weird version the original sin that receives completely unsympathetic treatment as the time goes by.

[amaryllis-sagitta]

This lowkey supports my lore suspicions made in this post... It is possible to read Solas's regrets as him making the wrong choices all along. This includes a pure, unmanifested spirit portrayed as capable of choice, embracing it, and remaining spectacularly bad at it for most of his incarnate existence. Again, no wonder he's so hung up on the pessimistic assumption that one cannot become effective at something one was not made for (a brand of essentialism straight out of Plato's analysis of virtue).

Yet, based on a simplified Kantian take on freedom of will, free choice is always, at any given moment, a realization of one of two mutually exclusive possibilities through sheer force of will. For a choice to occur, both possibilities must be equally probable in their fulfillment, regardless of experience and habit that condition us towards a singular option. In simpler terms, for us to speak about choice, it must always be possible to pick the option that one was not previously compelled to pursue. Even if most of our real choices happen in ruts imposed by all sorts of conditioning, it's always possible to escape the determinism of whatever history, essence or purpose we conceive of.

In this sense, the choices that do the real weighlifting are the ones that break established cycles.

This has heavy implications for Thedosian spirit lore.

A pure, singularly focused, one-concept spirit cannot be formally capable of choice. They can't be intrinsically pulled towards the opposite of their nature. If they are dragged towards the opposite of their conceptual nature by force, they become that opposite as a demon. No fork between two mutually exclusive options, no choice.

For a spirit to be capable of choice, they must be broken in their conceptual singularity just so that the "fork in the road" appears for them to manifest in two equal ways, but not enough to simply flip sides.

In other words, "pure" spirits should be blind to the possibility of joining the world as separate individuals. Not hesitant, not reluctant. They should filter it out and ignore it. Any spirit that wished or consented to join the world was already corrupt in this tiniest bit.

This is another unexpected win for the Canticle of Threnodies: spirits who chose to join the world of living were driven by a desire that wasn't exactly envy but subtly anticipated it: curiosity for the Earth's creations turned into a desire for the greener grass among a race that was supposedly harmonious with itself, self-content in its preoccupations. Spirits becoming concrete, incarnate individuals did stem from a kernel of the Void sneaking into their ethereal peace, that became a yearning for corporality that was "no longer formless, ever-changing".

Weekes on Solavellan after Veilguard

I'll be documenting everything they say on bluesky/interviews that may add more context to what we see in a game.

Disclaimer: Personally I'm happy with the ending, but the execution leaves to be desired. Still Weekes replies helped me look at last exchange between Solas and Lavellan in a better light, so hopefully others will find what they look for too.

Question: Does he want to reunite? Is it a choice he makes himself? Lavellan is open and proactive during conversation, but he almost seems resigned. “There is no fate but our love” does he realise he can say no?

Weekes: My intention was that after almost destroying the world, he does not feel he deserves love until he fixes what he did wrong (just like he couldn't move forward until he fixed the wrongs he did in Mythal's service). That's why the Inquisitor has to reach out to him.

Question: Was the nature of that solas/Mythal was more queerplatonic than romantic? And if Solas had to choose between Mythal and Lavellan, with whom might he consider sharing his life or save in the face of great danger?

Weekes: Mythal is Solas's past. Horrible mistakes made with good intentions. Lavellan is the hopeful future Solas doesn't think he deserves until he fixes the world he broke.

Question: Can you share any insights on what was going through Solas's mind after Mythal freed him and before he goes into the Fade with Lavellan?

Weekes: That one I think I need to let sit until it's been a bit longer.

Question: One more question, if you can answer! Was solas under a geas for Mythal?

Weekes: It's a possible reading, but there are plenty of people who made terrible decisions for a charismatic person and then felt like they didn't have a way to go forward. It's a story about regret, and regret requires choices.

[thebookworm0001]

thinking about how anaris turns elves into demons

it’s not a possession

they become demons

that’s fucking insane

[crows-rook]

The students of theoretical metaphysics are thrilled to finally have their professor back from his year-long sabbatical. They’d heard some pretty interesting rumors about Proefssor Emmrick "by the book" Volkarin having left Nevarra to help save the world but there's no way that's true. The gossip mill is rife in the Necropolis but there is no way that a man as uptight as him fought blighted gods, venatori, darkspawn and antaam all over northern Thedas.

The first day of class is pretty boring, they go through the motions of talking about what will be taught this term, what texts are best to understand this year's material and extra credit options they can undertake for their end of year scores. At the end of the lesson, one of the students raises a hand and asks about the professor's so-called connection with the veilguard and with Rook.

Every person alive now knows the story of Rook, Slayer of Gods and Hero of the Veilguard. They chat and brag about what stories they'd heard about them or even boast if they'd gotten a rare look at them out and about with their companions. It's great hearing the rumor that the Hero of Thedas is a Mourn Watcher, but without knowing who they actually are, all the young students can do is guess. It's become a game at this point.

The professor is about to answer when the door bursts open and Manfred comes bustling in dragging Ingellvar with him. Now everyone knows about that watcher, kicked out of the Mourn Watch for their role in the War of the Banners, only to be allowed back nearly two years later. What surprises them is the fact that they are not alone. There are two others with them, Neve Gallus and a warden called Davrin, both members of the veilguard.

With Manfred running around the room hissing Rook's home, Rook's home, it quickly becomes pretty clear to the students of Professor Volkarin's Theoretical Metaphysics class that their stick-in-the-mud teacher did spend his sabbatical fighting ancient gods and darkspawn. But there's no way it means the rest of the rumors are true right?

Least not until they see Thedas's hottest new hero practically examines the man's tonsils with a kiss that is not appropriate for the classroom.

When they leave, the flustered man looks at the class and asks; "Are there any more questions, or do you mind if I go home to my spouse?"

[high-voltage-rat]

I think the problem with Veilguard is mostly just that they were so focused on giving a culmination of the Deep Lore that they forgot about the shallow lore we've had for the last 3 games. Anything about the chantry systems, the dalish as we know them, the political situation as it currently stands in general- it's fallen by the wayside pretty much completely. But deep lore theories about the blight, lyrium, old gods, spirits, the origin of elves and qunari, titans and the dwarves, etc. have all been addressed. However, in the process, these big reveals end up feeling pretty par for the course, rather than a groundbreaking revelation to the characters uncovering it OR to us, the players.

I get the sense that this game was built on the core goal of trying to give closure to all the little lore threads they'd planted in the last 3 games. It wasn't to explore the current state of thedas, or the effects of the events that we dealt with in each game- just the metaphysical state of the setting and how it came to be. In a weird way, it seems to be built to appeal to new players and deep lore buffs, but not to the people who just, like, played all three games and are invested in the present-day storyline. But honestly I think the shine for lore buffs is even limited, because so many of the great mysteries of the setting have been explained that there's nothing left to really theorycraft about. Our own world has so many mysteries, so much unknown- it's what gives life wonder. Even in a fictional world, taking that away makes things feel flatter. If everything is known, why explore?

Don't get me wrong, I still love it. I'm having a lot of fun and I really love the lore reveals we've been given. I'm a deep lore guy. I had already put together that Ghilin'ain was blighted, that original elves were spirits in lyrium bodies, that old gods corresponded to evanuris and were probably their dragon servants, and I've been excited to see my theories come true. But as someone who also has a great love for the dragon age setting in its present day, I am also pretty disappointed that you can play the game without any real knowledge of what the circles in the south are like, why the mages rebelled, what happened with the antaam in Kirkwall, what the current living conditions of elves are, the relations between the Grey Wardens and Ferelden, the colonial history of Orlais and its chantry... and lacking any of that knowledge will make no difference to your understanding of the game. It will never even tell you that info, aside from some short and oversimplified codex entries, because you don't need to know. If dragon age historically operated on this kind of simplified, "only what you need to know" style, we would never have the lore threads this game is based on to begin with.

[dreadfutures]

Tevinter Nights: dramatic summaries

Back in March I decided to read a story from Tevinter Nights out loud to the DA FanFic server every Monday night. I figured with the number of stories, we'd hit August right as we finished - hopefully it'll be a big month for us fans!

I just love this anthology so much - there are many gems and entertaining bits among them, and they're criminally underrated. A lot of the DA side content is hit or miss for a lot of people, but seriously, some of these short stories could be published on their own without any knowledge of Thedas and still entertain!!

Here are the summaries I wrote ahead of each reading. :) All of the TN short stories are independent of each other, so take a look and perhaps you will find one you enjoy. I tried to keep them largely spoiler free :)

Also, check out @larkoneironaut 's Tevinter Nights art project! They're enjoyable in their own way :)

Three Trees to Midnight, by Patrick Weekes

After the Qunari take Ventus, prisoners are put to work chopping wood on the outskirts of Arlathan Forest. Myrion, a human mage, and Strife, a city elf who joined the Dalish, are shackled together at the ankle as a work pair. While their relationship starts antagonistic, they are quickly forced to work together to escape. This thrilling adventure is one of our first looks into the mysteries of Arlathan Forest, and the Antaam’s advance south—despite the rifts forming in the Qun’s ranks. Notably, Strife and his companion Irelin appear in another short story, Ruins of Reality, and Dragon Age: The Missing.

Down Among the Dead Men by Sylvia Feketekuty

We finally see Nevarra in this tale, and what better place to start than in the Grand Necropolis itself? Audric Felhausen, our POV character, is a city guard who is tasked with protecting a Mortalitasi mage during an investigation about some restless undead in the bowels of the Necropolis. We see how spirits and demons wander, and get stuck, in the bodies kept there -- and how possessing a body, even a long-dead one, can have significant effects on the spirit. On both a cultural and metaphysical level, this story gives us a TON of lore. And Audric, our hero, is equally curious and unsettled by what he learns. By the end you'll see why so many people are desperate for him to be a companion in DA4!

The Horror of Hormak by John Epler

Do you love Wardens? Do you miss the dark fantasy elements of Origins? Do you like the aesthetic of Dark Souls, with giant stone doors you push open with all your might to reveal a giant boss? That's the vibe that John Epler (DA4 Creative Director!) brings to this story. Wardens Ramesh and Lesha are tracking down a group of missing Wardens in Nevarra--a group, it turns out, that does not want to be found. For better or worse, Ramesh and Lesha plunge into the darkness and discover a horrifying truth with massive implications for the ancient history of Thedas... and the Evil Gods about to wake in DA4!

Callback by Lukas Kristjanson

Follow Sutherland and his crew of honorable adventurers back to where they began: Skyhold. Now defended and empty but for a handful of Chantry chosen caretakers, the fortress that once housed the Inquisition has gone dark, and Sutherland is tapped to investigate. We see Skyhold and by proxy the Inquisition itself from the perspective of one of the little guys, drawn to it because of ideals and encouraged to become their best selves. In doing so, we also see how the events of this world can shape Spirits in unexpected ways, with consequences for a world where the Veil is thin. Callback is full of callbacks and cameos from a surprising group from DAI, and an entertaining and perilous mini adventure in its own right. This is a love letter to Skyhold, to the Inquisition, and a meaningful counterpart to the memories of Skyhold kept in its frescos.

Luck in the Gardens by Sylvia Feketekuty

Hear a tale of glory and daring straight from a Lord of Fortune themself! A genderfluid, disguise-wearing, acrobat-turned-swashbuckler regales us with an adventure from the streets of Minrathous. Spy on secret meetings between Magisters, learn what the Venatori have been doing since Corypheus' defeat, and tremble in the face of things "past the Veil of our world," neither demon nor spirit. Who are the Lords of Fortune from Rivain? What lurks beneath Tevinter's streets? This may be the story that inspired many people's wishlist for the next Archon and the next Black Divine -- some beloved, familiar faces join our hero to face the terror in the gardens!

Content Warning: Body horror, Eldritch horror, mentions of Tevinter slavery

Hunger by Brianne Battye

Tevinter Nights returns to Warden business in Hunger -- or does it? Evka Ivo, a heroic warden, and her junior recruit Antoine, have to decide what counts as Warden business when there's not a Blight ongoing. As they make their way to Weisshaupt to answer their summons, they decide to make a small detour to help a village in need. Evka and Antoine are our beloved dwarf/elf romantics who feature in a DA Day short story - as well as in the DA4 lead-in comic, The Missing! Whether they may be companions or contacts to our protagonist remains to be seen, but surely they'll make an appearance after such tales of heroism and compassion!

Murder by Death Mages by Caitlin Sullivan Kelly

We return again to Nevarra from a different angle this time! An agent of the Inquisition, the multiplayer necromancer Sidony, is sent back to the home country she resents in pursuit of a killer. We learn not only about Sidony's past, but about the political landscape of Nevarra: do the Mortalitasi run the country as shadowy puppet masters? What do the common people, and the nobility, think of the death mages from the Necropolis? How are Mortalitasi trained? And what does necromancy look and feel like to the characters in Thedas? In this tale of alleyway chases and gossip-filled balls, we get another glimpse into a country we may very well visit in DA4!

The Streets of Minrathous by Brianne Battye

We return to Minrathous to learn what's become of the Venatori since Corypheus's defeat. Join Neve Gallus, special investigator (and important cameo in The Missing comic), as she navigates the alleyways of Tevinter's great city in search of a murderer. Through her eyes, we see how less-privileged mages are viewed, and how the law bends to the whims of the rich and magical in Tevinter. Neve is joined by Tevinter Templars in her investigation, and their final battle is certainly eye-opening for anyone interested in fighting mages... What lies beneath the Streets of Minrathous, if not the Cekorax? Well, you're about to find out.

The Wigmaker Job by Courtney Woods

Lucanis Dellamorte, Master Assassin (and rumored heir to the First Talon) of the Antivan Crows, prowls the secret passages and unsuspecting rooftops of Tevinter with his cousin Illario on a contract. The target? A member of the Venatori with a... peculiar hobby. From shady hotel rooms to a grand gala and fashion show, get a look at the best of the Crows doing what Crows do best. This is one of the best stories in Tevinter Nights by far.

Content Warnings: abuse of slaves, body horror, torture, gore, hair eating, lots of pretty gruesome (if cathartic) assasination, and possession

Genitivi Dies In The End by Lucas Kristjanson

The remnants of the Inquisition approach a new group of adventurers and task them with finding the secrets of Fen'Harel. The Antaam - or at least, part of it - give chase. And Genitivi Dies in the End.

Herold Had the Plan by Ryan Cormier

Our Lords of Fortune are on the run as a mission to steal an ancient amulet goes awry. They have the amulet, they have their daring escape (a Lord of Fortune knows no other kind, of course) -- but Herold had the plan for what to do with the damn thing, and Herold is gone. As Starkhaven guards give chase, only one Lord of Fortune will survive the night. But will he make it to the mysterious Squire who hired them in the first place? Join us for an adventure that will break your heart and keep you on the edge of your seat.

An Old Crow's Old Tricks by Arone Le Bray

Tevinter has sent their finest centuri to defend the shores of the Nocen Sea from potential Qunari invaders. They stake their claim on the area and set up camp, enjoying the esteem of being the proud defenders of Tevinter. But it's not the Qunari this group of soldiers should fear.

CW: blatant racism against dalish, off screen massacre of a Dalish clan, many gruesome cathartic assassinations described in some detail, hand trauma

Eight Little Talons by Courtney Woods

Antiva's crown is weak. Antiva has no army. And the Qun is at its doorstep. Antiva's Crows may be the country's only defense, but they must act fast. Caterina Dellamorte, the fearsome leader of the Crows, calls all Eight Talons to meet in secret and solitude to discuss and prepare for the threat at Antiva's borders. But perhaps they should begin by looking for threats at home. All Crows are assassins. But only one is a murderer.

Half Up Front by John Epler

A former altus who chose to be disowned into poverty to be with her elven lover takes the job of a lifetime: steal a precious, powerful, magical artifact from the Archon's Palace itself. It was never going to be easy, but the former Altus Vadis couldn't have predicted that a Minrathous heist would bring her all the way to a port in Rivain, loyal to the Qun. What at first glance seems like a classic cat burgling caper actually might tell us a lot about the forces at play in Thedas—how perhaps the people on the ground may or may not be following orders.

Dread Wolf Take You by Trick Weekes

[exceedinglygayotter]

So I've been reading a lot of Elder Scrolls fanfic recently, and I noticed that it's fairly popular to write crossovers with Dragon Age, specifically to have the author's version of the Last Dragonborn fall into Thedas at the start of Dragon Age: Inquisition and become either the Inquisitor or a companion of theirs.

I've never played Dragon Age (massive CRPGs just aren't my thing), but the idea is a really interesting one. How would Dragon Age characters react to someone who is clearly capable of magic, but has no connection to the Fade because that's just not how magic works on Nirn? How would a Skyrim character react to being thrown into a world that is so superficially similar to their own, yet so fundamentally different, with dragons, elves, and dwarves that bear only the slightest resemblance to what they're used to those words meaning?

Anyway, I had a neat idea for one of these, but since I'm sure I'll never write it I figured I'd post it here. I just think that there's a lot of potential in making the character who gets trapped on Thedas be an ohmes khajiit.

If you don't know, khajiit can be born into one of 16 different "furstocks" depending on the phase of the moons when they are born, ranging all the way from talking house cats (the alfiq) to 10-foot-tall tiger-men (the pahmar-raht), with the ohmes pretty much just looking like elves to the point that many ohmes tattoo more feline features onto their faces in order to make it more obvious that they're khajiit. This means they'd be able to blend in relatively easily since they could just pass themself off as an elf, but would still be a member of a species completely alien to Thedas. Humans are just humans, and even mer could be thought of as basically just weird elves, but there's nothing even similar to the khajiit.

Furthermore, the moons of Nirn are extremely important to every part of khajiiti society from their government to their religion, and this would mean they'd be thrown into a world where those moons just... aren't there. The very sky of Thedas would be alien to them, and a khajiit would be the most affected by that out of all of Nirn's cultures.

On a more metaphysical level, khajiit are innately tied to the Lunar Lattice, which is basically the khajiiti name for the barrier separating Mundus from Oblivion and Aetherius. Azura is worshipped by them as Azurah, a "keeper of all gates and keys, all rims and thresholds," and it's implied that Azurah created the khajiit to help maintain the Lunar Lattice in some way. Seeing as the main plot of DA:I is heavily focused on the Veil between the mortal world and the Fade, you could probably do some very interesting stuff with a character who has an innate connection to a similar metaphysical barrier.

I understand why nobody's done something like this (at least as far as I'm aware), since a lot of people don't even know that the different furstocks exist and ohmes haven't been playable since Arena, but I feel like you could do some really fun stuff with it.

[amaryllis-sagitta]

I'm watching carefully how Solas straight up uses Platonic language when referring to spirits because it Must Mean Somethimg on the larger scale. Like, spirits are viewed as the key to how reality should maintain its identity throughout time and upheaval, and the threat to the state of spirit world is probably linked to the vague threat to "all existence" that Solas mentions in Tevinter Nights.

Theory: Solas isn't doing it to save the elves, he's doing it to save the spirits.

With the new information coming out about Solas's plan in in DAV and the much-memed back and forth between Solas and Varric, I think we may have gotten the wrong end of the stick regarding what is at stake, or why Solas is doing what he's doing. There has been increasing back and forth about whether the Veil should come down in the decade since DAI, but a lot of conversation has focused on a) the collateral damage necessary to do so and b) elven immortality. The assumption being that Solas has decided that any collateral damage (with opinions varying from 'some' to 'apocalyptic' in what they expect that to look like) is worth it to bring back ancient elves, aka 'his people'.

However, repeated dialogues throughout DAI and Trespasser paint a different association - Solas refers to the elves as 'our people' when convenient (eg when trying to get the Inquisitor on side following their first confrontation with Corypheus). When you or other characters ask him about what he considers to be 'his people' he either dodges the question, or to Abelas:

Solas: There are other places, friend. Other duties. Your people yet linger. Abelas: Elvhen such as you? Solas: Yes. Such as I.

While this seems pretty straight forward, it begs the question what the ancient elves, what the Elvhen actually are. Think about the origin of Elvhen as a deliberate identifier, rather than just using 'elves' which Solas repeatedly rejects. Breaking down the word the answer may have been staring us in the face this whole time: vhen is translated to 'people', and El is the root for spirit. I think there is a very good chance Elvhen literally translates to 'spirit people', and that has been the key distinction all this time.

What that functionally meant before the Veil (spirits that chose to manifest personality/bodies, spirits that were bound to bodies, perhaps 'possession' or symbiosis was the norm) is yet to be determined. But the connection to spirits is what Solas considers his people, which is why appeals to save 'this world' will ultimately fail for him, even in a state where he acknowledges mortal beings are 'people':

Inquisitor: We aren't even people to you? Solas: Not at first. You showed me that I was wrong, again. That does not make what must come next any easier. Inquisitor: You'd murder countless people? Solas: Wouldn't you, to save your own?

While many players would consider the current world state 'acceptable' to those living in it, that discounts the perspective of those trapped on the other side of the Veil. The spirits are very clearly suffering, which will not improve while the Veil remains, and it's why Solas can't just live with 'this world'.

[amaryllis-sagitta]

(LARGE IMAGE - use external link)

This is my tribute to one of the most profound secrets of Thedas -- the nature of spirits and their link to the presumed "Maker" of that world.

This piece is inspired by DA lore crafting through Codices, murals, stylized concept art, and in-universe research like The Grim Anatomy. Another thread is my speculation from Metaphysics of Thedas about the great metaphysical duality being at work in Thedas, one between a supposed Maker and the counter-balancing force known as the Void or primal Silence. Yet another element I used is the visual of the Tree of Porphyry - a type of diagram that medieval philosophers used to classify the universals according to the Aristotelian rules of definition through genus and differentia specifica.

Of course, spirits of Thedas are not classified this way - for what we know, some leading "virtue" types of spirit can be corrupted into "vicious" types of demons if their conceptual nature is compromised or abused. Still, the way we keep learning about the new spirit types outside the crude classification of the Southern Chantry, brings to mind a picture of a tree where spirit types spread out into more and more nuanced variants.

The corners of the picture are adorned with rudimentary depictions of the Forbidden Ones - the four mysterious powerful demons that bear proper names instead of universal names, whose nature seems more elaborate and elusive than the usual single notion assigned to most spirit types. These are: Xebenkeck, harboring an insatiable bloodthirst, whose presence was noted in Kirkwall and might have something to do with the city's history of violence; the still unknown Formless One; the duplicitous Imshael, who manipulates mortals into choices that bring out a monstrous side in their morals; and Gaxkang, a shapeshifting predator luring mortals with a false promise of riches and glory, only to bury the trace of their existence.

[thedragonagelesbian]

Hey…can you talk more about Cyrus not being able to die? How does that happen? When does the realization happen? How does that affect his views on his body and death?

hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii yes i can always say more about the headcanon plot armor/corporeal angst i made up for the specialist boy in thedas

cyrus not being able to die is an outgrowth of the innate healing he develops over the course of da2, which is the result of (a) longterm overexposure to anders' healing magic, such that it just kind of never goes away and lingers inside of him and (b) metaphysical kirkwall's possessiveness of him as its champion and unwillingness to see him fall. i often conceptualize it like how cole describes templars' ability to block magic: their bodies always want to connect to... something older. Bigger than they are. That's why they block magic. They reach for that other thing, and magic has no room to come in. cyrus' constant harm -> heal -> harm cycle creates more gaps in his body, but what he's connecting to instead isn't the titans but kirkwall itself.

subsequently, the innate healing (and the resistance to other forms of healing) begins to develop with the arishok fight: cyrus very nearly dies, and as he's bleeding out onto the floor of the keep, the twisted and lingering ancient tevinter magic at kirkwall's core accepts this as sacrifice and in exchange gives him the strength to finish the duel... at the cost of his body no longer being his own.

it's not something cyrus discovers until post-game, though. there's simply. too fucking much going on already. with the reaverisms and the heavy armor and the constant fight-or-fight instinct and the classic minimization/denial, it's just very hard to tell when or how badly cyrus is hurt, especially with his body healing minor injuries near instantaneously.

i'm not totally committed to the timeline of when cyrus realizes it, but the idea i've tossed around the most is that it happens after he, varric, and merrill have relocated to val royeaux, during the chevalier academy graduation ceremony of. slaughtering city elves. cyrus is in the val royeaux alieange trying to protect folks--no weapons or armor just his body--he isnt fast enough, a chevalier strikes him down......... and then he gets back up again.

and ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm it sure Does Not Help. cyrus is already so alienated from his body, already has episodes where it does not feel like it's real or his, already has periods where he can't tell where he begins and ends, and realizing this intensifies all of those feelings. he doesn't/can't fight much in the time between da2 and inq without drawing undue attention (which doesn't help the listlessness & depression of those years either), but when he does, he's even more reckless with himself, much to varric's chagrin. there's also a general loss of sensitivity to both pain and pleasure, which means cyrus becomes very prone to accidentally hurting himself...... and, on the absolute worst days, intentionally hurting himself just to try to feel something.

over the three years between da2 & inq, it's something cyrus learns to be more at peace with/careful about, seeking out less harmful forms of physical stimulation if not for his own sake then certainly for varric's. at the same time, it's also something he never expected could be or necessarily wanted to have fixed? because that would mean even more magic, even more tampering, even more alienation from his body. he lets merrill investigate it to a certain extent, but he prefers to try to live with it. some days, that feels like an agential choice he gets to make. some days, it feels like something fate forced upon him. but he keeps going anyway (and praying to the creators helps a lot too!)

it's also part of why his recovery from the fade takes so long-- breaking kirkwall's hold on him once and for all breaks this magic too, restoring him to mortality & fragility but also softness & vulnerability & gentleness.

[vaultsixtynine]

heres the deal: to give thedas an actual necromancy structure requires that Someone (me) actually put some work into "what happens to people when they die", a weirdly neglected part of da lore for some reason (it's because the general worldbuild is not really interested in building out lore for things it does not directly touch and The Fade is its handwavey answer to A Lot of things)

great! sure! however at that point i may as well just tackle the rearrangement of the basic foundations of the physical and metaphysical world. lol. is dragoned age worth that level of effort. probably Not

[therookandthecrow]

While my primary Rook Aloisius has categorically been opposed to the Venatori for quite a long time (in the ten plus years he's been a Shadow Dragon), he's going to truly go into a true ultraviolence mode against them when he finds out what they've done to Lucanis. Then it won't matter to him which Venatori they were, he's going to want to clear house of each and every single one of them.

Lucanis is going to bring out his most protective qualities and any nurturing qualities that he pretended that he didn't have before - those are going to come out a dozenfold through Lucanis. Aloisius isn't going to know what to do with these feelings that he's allowing himself to feel for the first time in what seems to be a lifetime.

He's the sort of person who'd go beyond even the reaches of Thedas to protect Lucanis and to avenge any acts of harm against him. Furthermore, he's going to prioritize looking after Lucanis, and while that is a good thing, the only way I can see that becoming a problem is if he ignores everything else going on - which I don't think that he'd do.

It's mainly that his priorities change radically over the course of the game, as he joined the Shadow Dragons initially because he wanted to use his status there to eventually be the one to rule over Tevinter (albeit in the shadows), and to direct it in what he believed to be a more optimal direction - but then he meets Lucanis, and his actions are directed by his desire to keep him safe.

His prior desire to be a ruler and all the responsibilities that come along with it wanes away, and there is nothing more he wants at the end than to spend a life with Lucanis. Aloisius loves his homeland of Tevinter, and he joined the Dragons partially because he wanted to change it for the better, but on the flip-side, he had some Machiavellian-leaning intentions.

Aloisius was used to using people as stepping stones for his agenda and moving them around on a metaphysical chessboard as he achieved comparably little goals. Likewise, he was used to seeing people as mere colleagues, if he even could call them such, and any "friends" he had before in the Dragons were one-sided where they vastly overestimated how much he considered them a friend.

He's quite unprepared to have friends such as Bellara and Davrin whom I think that he will get along with the most apart from Lucanis, but that could very well change once I play the game and see how people interact. At first, I can see him as an awkward friend, hating awkward silence, and saying the wrong thing because he's not used to being close to people.

[1411411989]

dragon age is so funny because you can feel the games, especially after 2, struggling to be like "only modern multicultural liberal attitudes can point the way forward to a society that is healed, peaceful, and advances the dignity and welfare of all people" and it's like, okay, but you guys made the game where the different races all have literally different origins.

"racism is bad. most of our villains are racial supremacists of one type or another. also, humans and elves and dwarves and qunari are biologically, metaphysically, and ontologically distinct. racial intermixing literally reduces the number of elves and threatens elvish society and heritage in the long run. qunari are implied to be the way they are in part because of genetic engineering." like do you guys fucking hear yourselves? you made a racist game, dipshits. it's wholly unsurprising that veilguard relegates a lot of its coverage of race to small bits of the banter and the codex, because engaging in good faith with race in the dragon age setting without accidentally saying something racist is hard. because they baked the racism into the worldbuilding.

and that's before we even get to the genetic determinism nightmare that is magic in thedas

[feykrorovaan]

Terribly sorry, but due to your post indicating that you enjoy hearing other people talk about their OCs, which was tagged with Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age, I will now use your askbox to ramble about a stupid crossover fanfiction idea I had that I will almost certainly never write but cannot get out of my head and I just need to talk about somewhere.

Anyway, there's a really common trend in DA/TES crossover fics where the premise is basically just "TES protagonist (almost invariably the Last Dragonborn) ends up in Thedas during the events of Dragon Age: Inquisition and either ends up being the Inquisitor or an additional companion to the Inquisitor." The idea is just one of those, with the TES protagonist in question being an Ohmes Nerevarine.

If you don't know, khajiit can be born into one of 16 different "furstocks" depending on the phase of the moons when they are born, ranging all the way from talking house cats (the alfiq) to 10-foot-tall tiger-men (the pahmar-raht), with the ohmes pretty much just looking like somewhat hairier-than-average elves to the point that many ohmes tattoo more feline features onto their faces in order to make it more obvious that they're khajiit. This means they'd be able to blend in relatively easily since they could just pass themself off as an elf, but would still be a member of a species completely alien to Thedas. Humans are just humans, and even mer could be thought of as basically just weird elves, but there's nothing even similar to the khajiit.

Furthermore, the moons of Nirn are extremely important to every part of khajiiti society from their government to their religion, and this would mean they'd be thrown into a world where those moons just... aren't there. The very sky of Thedas would be alien to them, and a khajiit would be the most affected by that out of all of Nirn's cultures.

On a more metaphysical level, khajiit are innately tied to the Lunar Lattice, which is basically the khajiiti name for the barrier separating Mundus from Oblivion and Aetherius. Azura is worshipped by them as Azurah, a "keeper of all gates and keys, all rims and thresholds," and it's implied that Azurah created the khajiit to help maintain the Lunar Lattice in some way. Seeing as the main plot of DA:I is heavily focused on the Veil between the mortal world and the Fade, you could probably do some very interesting stuff with a character who has an innate connection to a similar metaphysical barrier.

As for the Nerevarine part, it's for a few different reasons. Partly because (as mentioned) almost every single one of these fics has the Last Dragonborn and having a different TES protagonist would make it slightly more unique. Partly because a Khajiiti Nerevarine would likely be able to relate to an Elven Inquisitor quite a lot, being hailed as the destined savior of a people who treat most of their respective peoples as subhuman. And finally because the Nerevarine is very closely connected to Azura, with her basically being the Nerevarine's patron goddess.

I don't have a huge number of specific ideas for the plot, but the Nerevarine's presence there would definitely be a scheme by Azura. Azura is ultimately a prideful and egotistical being; not malevolent, but definitely self-centered. In Daggerfall her sphere is vanity and egotism, rather than twilight and prophecy, and those associations are very much still present even in later games. Above all else she desires to be loved and worshiped, so how could she resist a world bereft of gods, free for the taking? I imagine her plan here is two-fold: just like in Morrowind there’s her obvious and wholly altruistic goal (supporting the Nerevarine in his quest to defeat a great evil), and that goal just so happens to further her own ends. She seeks to essentially supplant the Veil; she wants to become known as a benevolent goddess who oversees the barrier between the mortal world and the Fade. Her being there to help the Nerevarine mend the Veil is partly a cover, and the person she’s really interested in is Solas, planning to gain his trust and support by presenting herself as a better alternative to his plan of simply tearing down the Veil. She/Moonshadow (since Princes pretty much are their realm of Oblivion) would serve as a twilight realm, removing the Veil without doing the damage that would result from simply tearing it down. Just like in Morrowind, she’d be a highly morally ambiguous character, never overtly doing anything sinister or malicious, but definitely manipulative and with somewhat unclear end-goals or motivations.

I imagine the Nerevarine would have a very complicated relationship with Azura. Since the Nerevarine is canonically an orphan and she’s “The Mother of All Khajiit,” he might view her as kind of a mother-figure he’s devoted to and desperate to earn the approval of, but feels more and more like he’s being used and manipulated by her (because he is). He will especially feel this way if he knows that he’s on Thedas because of another one of her plans. He probably won’t hate her or anything, and may even have faith that she is acting for the greater good, but will have something of an arc of him becoming less emotionally dependent on her and distancing himself. If he cuts ties entirely, it would probably happen right at the end, and coincide with her finally getting Solas to support her plans.

I know you said you probably won't write out a full fanfiction, but you definitely have the ground work for one. If you ever do, remember that Thedas canonically has two moons,just like Nirn. 😉

Also,I had no idea that asks could be so long, so you taught me something new. ^.^

Thank you for sharing your ideas. This was really interesting.

[morganaseren]

kicks down your door. have you considered niamh/bethany/leliana before, and if not, what is a poly ship that you think would be more effective/you like better, if you're so inclined

Friend, you are now going to take responsibility for all my rambling because now the plot bunnies won't stop with this idea. Okay? Okay! 😂 Everything shall be below the cut because of the length.

So there is a bit of an age difference between the three of them. I'm going to use their Inquisition ages here per my fic because I'm so used to writing their characterizations from that time period. That means Leliana is 37 (or roughly around that age, depending on how you want to interpret the source material), Niamh is 33, and Bethany is canonically 30 by then.

I'll preface this all by saying that I think they would work well together in an AU because so much of DA's canon world state surrounds Niamh and Bethany in such doom and gloom (both the Cousland background and the fate of the Hawkes are just so tragic), and I actually want them to be happy without having them wallow too much in that.

Having said that, you won't see the usual prejudices depicted in the games, especially in regards to mages. Circles exist only in the sense that they're schools of magic with students who can freely come and go within them. Thus, Niamh's and Bethany's respective positions in the world of Thedas would be nearly as prominent as Leliana's own status as Left Hand of Divine Justinia.

Considering Leliana's reputation, everyone outside her personal circle would assume the Knight-Enchanter and Necromancer she's in a polyamorous relationship with must be absolutely intimidating.

In reality, they're like the nicest women you could ever meet.

I've always viewed the Knight-Enchanter class to be something like a doctor in our world albeit on a completely different level. I mean, they literally have the power to resurrect people and help regrow lost limbs, and that's on top of already being able to conjure a sword made completely of magic! How mindblowing is that?!

But with any doctor comes the aspect of patient care obviously, and considering the headcanons I have of Bethany in OtSttCA taking in a lot of abandoned mage children during the Templar-Mage war, I imagine she'd be the head healer of a charitable clinic, who specializes with younger patients dealing with chronic illnesses.

That's the sweet, nurturing part of her, but anyone who has ever played the Knight-Enchanter class know all too well just how tanky these mages are. Like, holy shit, do you realize how much damage a solo Knight-Enchanter can take against a High Dragon in Nightmare mode?? Absolutely stunning! And now because of you, dear Jelly-friend, I now envision Bethany conjuring a magical battleaxe instead of the typical magical sword. It's badass, and I love that for her!

I mentioned Leliana is also dating a Necromancer, so, yes, Niamh's canonically a Necromancer in Inquisition. Outside the game, it's honestly because I already played a Knight-Enchanter before and wanted to try something different. In-game logic though? Some aspects of the Necromancer class reminded Niamh of Morrigan, and she chose it as a way to honor one of her first and truest friends outside of the Circle.

Plus, Niamh's fascinated by the metaphysical aspect regarding the class, especially when you add spirits into the mix. Beyond that though, Niamh is just an absolute nerd. Like, she greatly enjoys learning just for the sake of learning, so despite being one of the most respected figures in the magical house of dark arts, Niamh's just an absolute cinnamon roll. She'd rather talk your ear off about her work rather than resort to violence most of the time. Like with her elemental magic though, she tends to use her powers of necromancy in rather innovative ways, which has earned her some measure of fame.

For instance, there's a vase of Andraste's Grace that Leliana always keeps on her desk. Most assume that she regularly changes out the flowers within them, but no. They're actually the same flowers she's kept for years, and they were originally gifted to her by Niamh. She somehow managed to use her abilities to encapsulate the very energy inside the flowers and have it cycle in a near endless loop to keep them looking as lively as the day she first picked them.

Niamh was very proud of herself when she figured out how to do it. 😄

Keeping with that arcane user reputation of hers though, Niamh also learned shape-shifting from Morrigan—mostly because I think it would be hilarious if Cassandra or some other Chantry official would try to rouse Leliana for some incident that could just as easily be dealt with tomorrow only to find this large, black wolf sitting directly in front of the door regarding them with an air of utter disapproval.

When the Chantry officials are being particularly obstinate though, Bethany even joins Niamh by camping out in front of Leliana's door to further bar them from disturbing Leliana from her much-needed rest (that Bethany firmly insisted on and Leliana only somewhat begrudgingly agreed to after certain favors were promised in return for her obedience in the matter... 😏).

"The Left Hand has spent nearly the past fortnight ensuring enemies of the Divine were apprehended by her network if not outright routed into the Chantry's respective military forces," Bethany begins while not bothering to look up from where she's reading updates regarding her various patients. "Unless Her Holiness desires her presence herself, then I will trust you're all capable of dealing with a situation that is hardly between life and death." She barely smothers a smile when she hears an audible huff of incredulity from the wolf she's leaning against, gently ribbing Niamh in half-hearted reprimand. "Good day to you all."

But, yeah, despite being the youngest of the bunch, Bethany's usually the one making sure no one overworks themselves too much; that caring healer trait of hers doesn't always leave once she's done with her patients in the clinic. 😂 Niamh would absolutely forget to eat and just stay in her personal office for hours on end to write new academic dissertations while Leliana would be lost in the endless mindset of "Just one more report to read!" or "Just one more situation to deal with!"

Of course, while Niamh and Bethany are seen as outwardly sweet women, they can still utterly devastate their enemies with their respective magic. In that same sense, Leliana is often regarded as a rather terrifying woman, who casts a shadow across all Thedas with the reach of her spy network, but with her lovers, she's as gentle and loving as can be. 🥰

But to answer your other question, I think one other poly pairing that I'll probably have to write about at some point would be Isabela/Hawke/Merrill.

Honestly, there's a lot of women in the DA series that I would like to write about more such as Anora or Shianni, but I don't know in what context yet. 👀

Thanks for sending this in, friend! This was fun to think about!

[vh-rp]

The Fade

The Fade is a metaphysical realm that was once separated from Thedas by the Veil. The Veil was removed in 9:45 Dragon, by Solas (the Dread Wolf) and members of the Sylvas, a now-defunct Elvhen organization. The Dread Wolf lost his life in using his powers to forcibly pull the Veil down and re-create the Ancient reality that the Ancient Elves lived in. It was his belief that by pulling down the Veil he could bring back the Evanuris, specifically: Mythal. However, in pulling the Veil down, Solas released the Fade and all of its magic unto the world.

Previously to the Veil being pulled down, the Dalish referred to the Fade as the Beyond and believe that it is a holy place that was once the home of the gods. They also tell that following Fen'Harel's deception before the fall of Arlathan, the gods now lie imprisoned in the Eternal City at the heart of the Fade while the Dread Wolf roams, gleefully feasting on the souls of the dead. Ancient elves also called the act of creating the Veil "holding back the sky". Thus they called the Fade "the sky". Yavana mentions the time "before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten", when dragons ruled the skies. Ancient Tevinters believed that the Fade was the realm of their Old Gods, and the Golden City was the center of the deities' power. Aurelian Titus offers to imagine mages sculpting dreams and dreams sculpting reality. He claims that the Fade is magic and reality itself. Aurelian tells that the dreamers of old commanded the Fade and that the blood of the great dragons grants power over it - the power of gods.

HOW DOES THE FADE ALTER REALITY? The Fade was an ever-changing world of ether, and retained most of the world's ether (ie: the magic resource that mages draw their power from). Now that it is all around Thedas, and no longer held back by the Veil, spirits, demons, and so much more has spilled forth into the world to roam freely. The first noticeable way the Veil falling has changed the world is that all mages are now possessed by a spirit, demon or a Shard. However, more is happening out in the world—a tree that seems alive, mushrooms that glow, a section of the path is colder than the rest. Get creative, have fun with it.

The magic in this world is altered and ever-changing, meaning that magic can be caste in a variety of ways. From runes etched on bone or wood, to burning protection runes into a surface. From potions and spoken spells to signed spells and more. Magic does not require a staff or a wand, but you can use these if you wish. Magic displays in a variety of ways, from potentially giving someone using a fire element a fiery aura, to someone sneakily using ice with no aura. How it looks for your character is up to you.