#mariah nymeros martell

[lilith-kruger]

CONSORT OF THE DORNE

FAMILY MARTELL

PRINCES OR PRINCESS OF DORNE

[khazelgl]

After Daeron’s marriage to Princess Myriah many noble Dornishmen and women flocked to Daeron’s court to give life in the Red Keep a foreign flavor.

[the-redwyne-bros]

A SONG OF ICE AND AU’S / RHAEGAR WINS THE IRON THRONE AND DEPOSES AREYS, PART ONE

House Martell at the End of 310 AC

House Martell at the End of 310 AC

Prince Doran Martell, Head of House Nymeros Martell

— His Daughter and Heir, Arianne Martell

— Her Husband Consort Prince Viserys Targaryen

— Their Children, Mors, Rhaellaena, and Aerys

— His Son, Quentyn, Lord Consort of The Tor

— His Wife, Myria Jordayne, Lady of the Tor

— Their Son and Heir, Shayne Jordayne

— His Son, Trystane

— Trystane’s Paramour, Mariah Sand, Bastard of Manwoody

Queen Dowager Elia Nymeros Martell, Former Queen of The Seven kingdoms, and who sits on her sons council as a representative of Dorne

— Her Son, King Aegon VI Targaryen, King of The Seven Kingdoms, king of the andals, the Rhoynar and the first men

— His Wife, Queen Magaery Tyrell

— their children, Duncan, Aegon and Maegelle

Oberyn Nymeros Martell, the Red Viper of Dorne

— His partner and paramour, Ellaria Sand

— Ellaria’s four children by him ( Elia, Obella, Dorea and Loreza

— his daughters the sand snakes ( Obarra, Nymeria, Tyene, and Sarella )

[laannie0803]

La princesa Mariah Nymeros Martell era la esposa y reina consorte del rey Daeron II Targaryen.

Mariah era la hija mayor del príncipe de Dorne durante el reinado del rey Daeron I Targaryen. Tenía un hermano menor, el príncipe Maron Martell.

En 161 DC, después de que el Rey Daeron I fuera asesinado en Dorne, el Rey Baelor I Targaryen liberó a los rehenes Dornish en Desembarco del Rey y los devolvió a Dorne personalmente, caminando descalzo. Una vez que llegó a Lanza del Sol, habló con el Príncipe de Dorne y acordó una paz, que incluía el compromiso de Mariah con el primo de Baelor, el Príncipe Daeron Targaryen. Los dos se casarían una vez que fueran mayores de edad.

Mariah finalmente se casó con Daeron, y tendrían cuatro hijos juntos: Baelor, Aerys, Rhaegel y Maekar. Baelor se parecía a su madre en apariencia, con cabello y ojos oscuros.

En 184 DC., tras la muerte del rey Aegon IV Targaryen, Daeron lo sucedió como rey Daeron II Targaryen y Mariah se convirtió en reina.

Princess Mariah Nymeros Martell was the wife and queen consort of King Daeron II Targaryen.

Mariah was the eldest daughter of the Prince of Dorne during the reign of King Daeron I Targaryen. She had a younger brother, Prince Maron Martell.

In 161 AC, after King Daeron I was killed in Dorne, King Baelor I Targaryen freed the Dornish hostages in King's Landing and returned them to Dorne personally, walking barefoot. Once he reached Sunspear, he spoke with the Prince of Dorne, and agreed upon a peace, which included the betrothal of Myriah to Baelor's cousin, Prince Daeron Targaryen. The two would marry once they were both of age.

Mariah eventually married Daeron, and they would have four sons together: Baelor, Aerys, Rhaegel and Maekar. Baelor took after his mother from him in appearance, with dark hair and eyes.

In 184 AC, after the death of King Aegon IV Targaryen, Daeron succeeded him as King Daeron II Targaryen and Mariah became queen.

[dornedaily]

Hello, friend. Would u pls help me to understand dornish's married name? Based on Dorne's gender equality laws, if any westerosi lady marries a Prince Martell she will be a Princess Martell or her birth/house name will kept the same? Princess Myrcella will be a Martell or a Baratheon?And what if she became queen, her heir would be Baratheon or Martell? Thank u so much.

GRRM gives a general answer here:

Most of the ladies of Westeros do change their names when they wed, although usage varies. If the wife's family is significantly higher born than the husband's, she may use his name little, if at all.

Some exemples that fit into this (although non-Dornish) are Catelyn Tully, Lysa Arryn and Selyse Florent. (Catelyn is a very specific case though) They all are referred by their maiden names throughout the series and most importantly, in the appendix which is objective and follows Westerosi/regional laws and customs.

There is no reason this would be different in Dorne. If anything, Dorne is the region where this usage would be most in use.

The Dornish have their own customs. The full surname of the ruling house of Dorne is Nymeros Martell, and the ruling princesses keep that in its female form. They do not take the name of their consorts. 

And some of the major Dornish lordlings also follow this custom, in imitation of the ruling house. (here)

Daenerys Targaryen (daughter of Aegon IV) married into House Nymeros Martell and is never referred as Daenerys Nymeros Martell. She is the only Westerosi lady we know of that married a ruling Prince of Dorne but it does work along this rule of keeping one’s birth name. Her title was most probably something along the lines of “Daenerys Targaryen, Lady of Sunspear/Lady Nymeros Martell, Princess Consort of Dorne”. Of course, she was royalty so it is very specific: the royal name will always prevail and Westerosi ladies cannot “marry into” the Targaryen family. All non-Targaryen spouses are referred by their birth house name, starting with Elia Nymeros Martell. Other exemples of this include Cersei Lannister (never Baratheon), Myriah Nymeros Martell, Aemma Arryn, Alicent Hightower and Betha Blackwood just to name a few.

Therefore, if the lady’s birth house is higher or equal to House Nymeros Martell, she’ll keep her maiden name, if not almost exclusively. If her birth house ranks lower than House Nymeros Martell but is a major bannerhouse (say House Yronwood, House Uller or House Dayne) she’ll get to use both. If she’s from a “low” house, she’d probably use exclusively the Nymeros Martell name.

As for your second question, Myrcella will remain a Baratheon no matter what, similarly to Daenerys I Targaryen given that she’s from the royal family.

The question does not lay in whether or not Myrcella becomes Queen of Westeros, but rather on Trystane. By itself, if Myrcella becomes Queen, her children with Trystane are Baratheon heirs because Trystane is not House Nymeros Martell’s heir. He’s a third son, he is not expected to inherit. If he somehow inherited Sunspear (which would mean that Arianne somehow doesn’t inherit [you can read some of @aegonbeingfakeisracist ‘s metas on why that would be bad storytelling]), then the question can be asked. However, I’d think it would end in a similar situation than the Myriah/Maron case. Myriah was meant to inherit Sunspear but due to her marriage to Daeron II, Dorne’s ruling went over to her younger brother Maron. @goodqueenaly explained it very well in this post so I’ll just copy paste:

I think the Unnamed Prince of Dorne thought an overabundance of caution would do no harm. He would make peace with a king who obviously had no desire for war, yes, but he would not leave the possibility of Baelor’s successor trying his hand at conquest. If his daughter Mariah - who, as his eldest child, was his heiress - remained the princess-presumptive, then her Targaryen husband might try to use her claim to rule the principality himself. Dorne, the Unnamed Prince was saying, would never be ruled by a Targaryen, neither as a conqueror nor as a prince consort.

That mindset remains dominant in Dorne and applies just as well to the Baratheons (who, remember, justified their claim on the Iron Throne thanks to their Targaryen blood -- their grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen). Robert’s Rebellion and Dorne’s subsequent political marginalization did not help. Queen Myrcella and her prince consort Trystane’s children would of course be Baratheon heirs but the ruling of Dorne would probably pass over to the next Martell in line (not any of the Sand Snakes). The castellan of Sunspear is Ser Manfrey Martell (not Nymeros Martell given that Nymeros Martell is only used by the ruling branch), which means there are other Martell branches and hence other potential heirs.

Thanks for the question! :)

[tessasocs]

Wbw + Myriah Martell

B A S I C S

full name: Myriah Nymeros Martell

gender: female

sexuality: pansexual

pronouns: she/her

O T H E R S

family: Mariah Martell (grandmother), Loreza Martell (mother), Mors Manwoody (father), Doran Martell (brother), Elia Martell (sister), Oberyn Martell (twin brother), Arianne Martell (niece). Rhaenys Martell Targaryen (daughter), Aegon Martell Targaryen (son), Lorenzo Martell (son)

birthplace: Sunspear, Dorne

job: Princess of the Seven Kingdoms

phobias: the Lannisters, her health declining

guilty pleasures: Dornish Red, Swimming nude, Arthur Dayne

M O R A L S

morality alignment?: Chaotic Good

sins - lust/greed/gluttony/sloth/pride/envy/wrath

virtues - chastity/charity/diligence/humility/kindness/patience/justice

T H I S - O R - T H A T

introvert/extrovert:

organized/disorganized:

close minded/open-minded:

calm/anxious:

disagreeable/agreeable:

cautious/reckless:

patient/impatient:

outspoken/reserved:

leader/follower:

empathetic/unemphatic:

optimistic/pessimistic:

traditional/modern:

hard-working/lazy:

R E L A T I O N S H I P S

top: Myriah x Arthur

ot3: Myriah x Arthur x Ashara (platonic), Myriah x Arthur x Elia (platonic)

brotp: Myriah & Oberyn, Myriah & Ashara, Myriah & Elia

notp: Myriah x Rhaegar

[dunstfeder]

Update for the Dorne fandom...

Hey all. I am an active player of Blood of Dragons MUSH, the ASOIAF roleplaying game run by Elio and Linda of westeros.org fame. For those of you don’t know, a lot of stuff there is made up by them in order to flesh out the time period for the roleplayers, but there’s also some canon details incorporated either from GRRM’s notes or cut content from “The World of Ice and Fire.” The game itself has spanned the years 158 - 169 AC and there are some interesting details about the post-Dance era noted to be canon.

What’s considered canon: Princess Aliandra Nymeros Martell succeeded her father Prince Qoren, and is noted to have had some controversial trading policies with the Iron Throne during the regency of Aegon III. She was noted to have always treated Alyn Velaryon warmly when he visited Dorne as Master of Ships (ironically he would later be instrumental in Daeron I’s Conquest of Dorne), and there were many rumours about the extent of that warmth -- yes, heavily implying a relationship between Alyn and Aliandra in spite of her marriage to Drazenko Rogare (and, of course, his to Baela Targaryen). She is remembered as a controversial figure in Dornish history and her policies were very unpopular with her siblings.

Note: subject to change due to being unpublished (Fire and Blood could retcon this, for example)

Non-canon detalils fleshed out by Elio and Linda that I personally find interesting:

The currency of Dorne during its independence was the “golden sun.”

Prince Qyle, youngest child of Prince Qoren, died at 21 in an “accident” in a botched attempt to overthrow Princess Aliandra. 

Aliandra was never supposed to be heir. Her brother Prince Gaynor died at age 19 fighting pirates on the Stepstones mere days before the Dance broke out, leaving behind a 15-year-old widow, Tamsyn Toland. She would later go on to marry Ser Warryn Uller and their daughter Liane would be heir to Hellholt one day.

Prince Qoren had a bastard son called Ser Bastian Sand, “the Bastard of Sunspear.” He married Adara Ladybright and had 5 children also bearing the name Sand despite their legitimacy (like the children of Walder Rivers); 1 was promised to the the Citadel and 2 to the Faith. He died at age 43 in the Conquest of Dorne, at Hellholt.

Prince Qoren’s niece Lyrella Martell was married to Lord Guerin Wyl, who would imprison Prince Aemon in the pit of vipers that King Baelor I saved him from.

Princess Aliandra herself died childless at an “accident” at age 26, conveniently paving the way for the ascension of Princess Coryanne, Prince Qyle’s elder twin. She herself died seven years later at age 31 in a great fall; her paramour Ser Manfryd Qorgyle was imprisoned at Gaston Grey thereafter. 

The future Lady of Skyreach, Marcia Fowler, was a lady-in-waiting and good friends to Princess Coryanne. The Princess was also good friends with Damarya Allyrion, the heir to Godsgrace.

Ser Manfryd Qorgyle was actually the nephew of the Princess’s husband Ser Quinlan Qorgyle. Quinlan was the younger brother of the Lord Ganlos Qorgyle who would kill Lord Lyonel Tyrell in a bed of scorpions. 

Coryanne had four children: Marence, Cadan, Rhodry, and Ariana. Marence was 13 when she died and so he named Quinlan as regent - the title “Lord Protector of Dorne” was bestowed upon him. 

Marence gave up being a squire and was permitted to study at the Citadel (without forging any links) while his widowed father ruled in Sunspear.

Marence was married and widowed twice when he was young, first to Lady Tristana Jordayne, mother of Princess Mariah and Prince Maron, and the sickly Princess Vanora who did not long outlive Lady Tristana dying in childbed at 22. Marence and Tristana did not get along well due to her hot temper. His second wife was Lady Cordelia Yronwood, who he married when she was 14. She died in childbirth at 15 during the Conquest of Dorne, giving birth to Prince Malor.

Prince Cadan and Princess Ariana were two of the hostages sent to King’s Landing upon the Submission of Sunspear.

Prince Rhodry was the one to slay King Daeron by stabbing him in the neck with the pointy end of a peace banner.

Prince Cadan was married to Senara Santagar, heir to Spottswood, but their marriage was extremely complicated. The prince was rumoured to have affairs with many ladies, including Joleta Gargalen, heir to Salt Shore, Kellyn Crakehall Lannister, wife of the heir to Casterly Rock, (both of these are shrouded in at least some layer of mystery, however), and openly with Allia of Lys, who died while she was pregnant with the Prince’s child. By 165 they had separated so poorly that their two children were in different houses: the oldest, Leyla, a Martell, the younger, Aron, a Santagar. 

Prince Rhodry had a complicated love life, too. He was paramour to Ser Corentyn Yronwood, but Corentyn was killed by Ser Sarmion “the Stormbreaker” Baratheon in the conquest. During their paramourship he claimed a bastard Lewyn, though Ser Corentyn was rumoured to have an equal chance of fathering the child upon the unknown woman. At the end of the Dornish Rebellion he went to Braavos and came back with Samara Sand, the half-Dornish, quarter-Lyseni, quarter-Dothraki daughter of Ser Mavros Uller (the arch-rival of Ser Quinlan Qorgyle). She bore bastard twins, Oberyn Sand and Roxana Sand, in 162, but they were not claimed until 169, a few months after he was betrothed to Tanyth Toland.

In 163 Lady Linnet Yronwood, the Bloodroyal, rebelled against Prince Marence citing his alleged weakness in the Conquest and Rebellion. Due to crafty use of military tactics she nearly won, but agreed to settle the Yronwood-Martell feud by betrothing her son and heir, Farien, to Princess Ariana. The two married in 167 and their son Cletus was born in 169. 

In 166 a feud broke out between the Dalts and the Gargalens after Ser Blaise Dalt, heir to Lemonwood, was killed in a duel by Ser Willum Gargalen due to a dispute over to which house some wells belonged. During a feast of reconciliation, Prince Marence was poisoned. Ser Quinlan took up the regency once more, and the Prince sojourned with Lady Dayne from 166-169.

From 164-169, Prince Maron was in King’s Landing -- he was squire to Ser Aidan Dayne, “the Knight of the Twilight,” brother of Lady Dayne and captain of the guard of Prince Marence’s embassy to King Baelor.

In 169, Prince Rhodry was said to have killed the First Sword of Braavos and brought back with him the young daughter of an old keyholder family, Amalea Parnel. 

[moonlitgleek]

@solareclairart reblogged this post and added:

I disagree strongly with a lot of this criticism. In book dorne, marriage was not a necessity. All the sand snakes are considered true daughters under dorne law.  Targaryans also married multiple wives often. It was northern law that forbade unmarried women and bastard born. I think Rhaegar never abandoned Elia. I think she believed the prophecy as well. I truly believe that he married Lyanna to pacify northern lords. Elia is a daughter of the sun. Lyanna was a winter wolf. Together, they created ice and fire. I believe now it will be Targaryen, Stark, and Lannister. The gold lion standing in as sun, snow for ice, and all three with varying amounts of dragon blood. This is also true of Elia who had weaker Targaryen lineage. I think the prophecy didn’t fulfill before because there wasn’t strong enough dragon blood in Elia. If Joanna Lannister was impregnated with the mad king, all three would have a dragon father and lineage to the first men and children of the forest in the men.

Oh boy. There is a lot to unpack here. I’m gonna break it down because this is a rather stunning mix of outright incorrect information, some breathtaking stereotyping and racist misconceptions, and wrong theories. No, really, they are wrong. Tyrion is not a Targ.

Let’s take this from the top.

In book dorne, marriage was not a necessity. All the sand snakes are considered true daughters under dorne law.  

What do you think Dornish law is exactly? Because literally the only difference between Dorne and the rest of Westeros is that Dorne employs absolute primogeniture (and a couple of rights like the right to keep their princely title.) That’s it. Law in Dorne is not at all different from other regions in Westeros, especially when we’re talking about matters of marriage and heirs because that stuff affects the line of succession which is crucial in a feudal society.

The context you’re looking for wrt the treatment of bastards is cultural (and social), not legal. Dorne is very different in the way they treat bastards, that’s true, but they are still not giving them the same legal rights as the trueborn. I have no idea where you got the idea that the Sand Snakes are "considered true daughters under dorne law”. Yeaaah, no. That’s patently not true. The Sand Snakes might have gotten raised akin to trueborn children, but so have Jon Snow, and no one is arguing that he was considered a true son under the law. The Sand Snakes are bastards, hence the Sand part. They are not considered trueborn. They are acknowledged as Oberyn’s daughters and treated with respect as the daughters of a prince of House Martell, and as Dorne generally does not stigmatize bastards, but they do not have the same legal rights as trueborn children: they do not bear their father’s name, they are not considered princesses of House Martell, they do not have the right to inherit, etc. There is nothing in Dornish law that says otherwise, or that gives illegitimate offspring any legal rights.

More importantly, the idea that marriage isn’t a necessity in Dorne is ludicrous. Whatever on earth gave you that impression? No, let me guess: Oberyn Martell. Fandom just loves to take the example of Oberyn and stereotype the entire Dornish culture based on him. Oberyn wasn’t married so no one had to get married in Dorne. Oberyn made a casual comment about sleeping with others while he was in a committed relationship with Ellaria so all the Dornish are accustomed to cheating on their significant others and don’t care if they have paramours on the side (not that Oberyn was cheating. Some are just fond of ignoring the fact that he repeatedly made comments about “sharing” with Ellaria. Ellaria consented. Ellaria participated. They invited people to their bed.) Gee, I wonder why people act as if Oberyn is the representative of the entire Dornish culture, even going to unprecedented measures to ignore the actual text because “well, Oberyn did X” fit their racist stereotypes better. Stop treating a person of color as the sole representative of his culture, and stop treating the only non-white culture that actually has a proper presence in the series as a monolith society.

(Grumbles at GRRM and his skewered presentation of the Dornish and heavy use of the exotic-erotic trope. You haven’t helped matters any, George. Good lord.)

But let’s talk about Dorne and about Oberyn. Dorne has a positive attitude towards sex, culturally permits having paramours and does not frown upon children born out of wedlock, but that does not mean that having paramours is the rule of the land in Dorne, or that it’s the baseline convention. It’s just allowed without derision or scorn. Dorne is a feudal principality, they adhere to the Faith of the Seven just like the majority of Westeros, they are governed by only slightly different inheritance laws, and the difference has nothing to do with the status of trueborn vs bastard children. Legitimacy is crucial to the integrity of line of succession and to the laws of inheritance, but you just randomly decided that nah, marriage is optional there? Okay, care to explain this:

Arianne Martell had grown up expecting that one day she would wed some great lord of her father's choosing. That was what princesses were for, she had been taught . . . though, admittedly, her uncle Oberyn had taken a different view of matters. "If you would wed, wed," the Red Viper had told his own daughters. "If not, take your pleasure where you find it. There's little enough of it in this world. Choose well, though. If you saddle yourself with a fool or a brute, don't look to me to rid you of him. I gave you the tools to do that for yourself."

Or how the text disproves the idea that there is absolutely no difference between the Sand Snakes and trueborn Martells, or generally between bastards and trueborn in Dorne.

The freedom that Prince Oberyn allowed his bastard daughters had never been shared by Prince Doran's lawful heir. Arianne must wed; she had accepted that. Drey had wanted her, she knew; so had his brother Deziel, the Knight of Lemonwood. Daemon Sand had gone so far as to ask for her hand. Daemon was bastard-born, however, and Prince Doran did not mean for her to wed a Dornishman.

Oberyn took a different approach with his own life and his own daughters. He made a decision concerning his life and he encouraged his daughters to do the same. He gave them the freedom to wed if they wished to but not the expectation that they would. But Oberyn was presented by the text as somewhat of a maverick, a nonconformist even within Dorne itself. He could afford to do that because he was not heir to Dorne and there was little chance that he’d ever inherit. He did not have a responsibility to provide trueborn heirs for House Nymeros Martell, and so he had significant freedom due to that fact. But heirs have a responsibility to marry and produce lawful heirs. Plus, Oberyn is one person, why is his example the one people are laser-focused on but they ignore Doran and Elia, the Unnamed Princess of Dorne and Nymeria of Ny Sar, Mariah and Maron Martell, Arianne, Quentyn and Trystane, and the countless trueborn Dornish characters we met over the course of the story? Why did all these people marry if marriage was not a necessity?

Marriage is as important in Dorne as in the other regions in Westeros with both religious and legal weight. Dorne is just another region in Westeros that is still governed by Westerosi convention, customs and religion, they just have some of their own inspired by the Rhoynish. The social treatment of bastards is infinitely better in Dorne than outside it, but their legal and political standing remains the same, the distinction between bastards and trueborn through surnames remains the same, even some restrictions remain the same. Daemon Sand can be a lover to Arianne but he can never be her husband. His social and political standing would never allow it. Likewise, I suspect the reason Oberyn did not marry Ellaria, his lover of 14 years that he evidently loved very much, was because of her bastard-birth, because even princes can only bend the rules so much. 

Enough with fanon myths that bastardize the information we have about Dorne and turn it into these weird arguments that are always used to justify Rhaegar’s actions. Not that I can see how "marriage was not a necessity in Dorne” explains anything because Elia was Rhaegar’s wife and the mother of his two children, the Iron Throne was her children’s inheritance, or do the Dornish not care about inheritance as well? And if you mean to imply the old “Elia was okay with it because she is Dornish” argument, fuck that noise.

Targaryans also married multiple wives often. 

Yes, that is correct, though often is not the word I’d use for two recorded polygamous marriages. Nevertheless, that means there is a precedent to a Targaryen taking multiple wives, which I think is probably what Rhaegar proposed to Lyanna to get her to go with him willingly (as much as the action can be described as willing because there are still consent issues at play here). I think that Rhaegar and Lyanna probably wed in front of a heart tree on the Isle of Faces. That, however, does not mean that the marriage is either valid or legal.

We need to look at the historical context of Targaryen polygamy before we discuss Rhaegar’s ability to take another wife to understand the chances that the realm would accept that marriage. The first thing to note about this subject is that polygamy was unconventional even when Aegon the Conqueror did it, before he started his conquest of Westeros.

It had long been the custom amongst the dragonlords of Valyria to wed brother to sister, to keep the bloodlines pure, but Aegon took both his sisters to bride. By tradition, he was expected to wed only his older sister, Visenya; the inclusion of Rhaenys as a second wife was unusual, though not without precedent. 

Both polygamy and incest are sins in the eyes of the Faith of the Seven, the majority religion in Westeros. The Faith tolerated both in the case of Aegon on account of his dragons whose prowess was just recently demonstrated in the Conquest. As GRRM says:

... the extent to which the Targaryen kings could defy convention, the Faith, and the opinions of the other lords decreased markedly after they no longer had dragons. If you have a dragon, you can have as many wives as you want, and people are less likely to object.      

Aegon had converted to the Faith of the Seven and taken measures to assimilate to Westerosi culture, winning him the support of the Starry Sept. However, upon Aegon’s death, the Faith showed that they would not tolerate the same practices from his son(s). 

Maegor shocked the realm in 39 AC by announcing that he had taken a second wife—Alys of House Harroway—in secret. He had wed her in a Valyrian ceremony officiated by Queen Visenya for want of a septon willing to wed them. The public outcry was such that Aenys was finally forced to exile his brother.

Maegor’s bigamous marriage to Alys Harroway was the start of the rift between the Faith and the crown, one that did not heal despite Aenys’ attempts, and was later compounded by Aenys himself marrying his two eldest to each other, ultimately leading to the Faith denouncing the Targaryens. The Faith Militant uprising during Maegor’s reign followed as his continuing polygamous marriages raised the tension and Maegor escalated the situation (because he is Maegor) by blatant tyranny and brutal burning of thousands of Warrior’s Sons and Poor Fellows.

So the history tied to Targaryen polygamy is dark and bloody. Maegor was the last recorded Targaryen polygamists, bar some rumors that Daemon Blackfyre meant to take his half-sister Daenerys as a second wife after his planned seizing of the throne from Daeron II, but the truth of the matter died with Daemon himself on the Redgrass field. While Jaehaerys I’s conciliatory efforts succeeded in defanging the Faith after the bloody conflict with Maegor, and won the Targaryens the exemption that permitted them their incestuous marriages, polygamy was never practiced again. Which means that the precedent that Rhaegar may have intended to invoke 1) happened over 200 years ago when the Targaryens had the undeniable advantage of dragons on their side, and 2) sparked a rebellion that resulted in the death of thousands, and thus got heavily entwined in the minds of the Westerosi with the tyranny of Maegor. Which utterly complicates any attempt to get a marriage to Lyanna recognized.

Now, we can argue that Rhaegar planned to convince, pressure and\or bribe the High Septon to declare a second marriage valid (though we have no evidence to suggest so, and though getting the High Septon to approve a post-fact marriage done in front of a heart tree would be extremely unlikely indeed), but in the absence of such a legalization, Rhaegar and Lyanna’s “marriage” would remain illegal and invalid in the eyes of the Faith. And no, that crap on the show where the High Septon was able to Apparate to Dorne and back before anyone noticed his absence, and where he approved something that would bring significant consequences to both himself and the realm so damn easily, is not happening. That’s preposterous.

It was northern law that forbade unmarried women and bastard born.

You seem to think that the cultural divide that separates the North and Dorne from the rest of the realm means that the North and Dorne are governed by alien laws that are completely removed from the rest of Westeros when the truth is that the differences are not that grand or that many, and most of them are cultural with no legal bearing.

Anyways.

This is not something that is unique to the North. Bastards are stigmatized everywhere in Westeros, with the exception of Dorne; they are perceived as treacherous and untrustworthy and a perpetual danger to their trueborn siblings’ inheritance, the girls are assumed to be lusty and wanton and easy. This ain’t a mark of those “Northern savages”, literally every region in Westeros, bar Dorne, thinks that way. The patriarchy, naturally, absolves the men, chalking it up to them “having needs” while literally teaching women to expect their husbands to father bastards. However, a noblewoman who loses her maidenhead before marriage or, god forbid, bears a bastard is swiftly punished, looked down upon and often has to marry so far beneath her station because the scandal of bearing a bastard tanked her hand’s worth. Delena Florent had to marry a household knight after bearing a bastard son to Robert Baratheon. Lollys Stokeworth fell pregnant after being gang-raped but in a rather remarkable pout of victim-blaming, she was derided for it, and was married off to the lowborn sellsword Bronn. Hoster Tully forcibly aborted Lysa to prevent the news about her lost maidenhead and her pregnancy from getting out. Jon Arryn’s niece, the daughter of Alys Arryn and Elys Waynwood, joined the Silent Sisters after she was seduced by a sellsword and her bastard died in infancy. None of these women are Northern.

As for bastards, the prevailing social convention for them is to be sent away, if they are even acknowledged in first place. Jon Snow and the Sand Snakes are the exception, not the rule. This is a story where Mya Stone, the king’s bastard, spends her time guiding mules in the Vale in service to House Royce of the Gates of the Moon. Her half-brother Edric Storm had a much better fate being raised as a ward of Renly in Storm’s End but that’s because his mother is a noblewoman (the aforementioned Delena Florent) and because his conception was a public affair since Robert deflowered Delena in Stannis’ marriage bed. Falia Flowers, bastard daughter of Lord Humfrey Hewett of Oakenshield, was made a servant to her half-sisters and her father’s wife. Even when the bastards are relatively treated well or belong to Great Houses, we still see the prevailing social stigma in how Sybelle Spicer, herself derided for descending from upjumped merchants as she is the granddaughter of a spice trader and an Essosi maegi, was thoroughly disgusted at the idea of marrying her son to Joy Hill, bastard daughter of Gerion Lannister. And these are all noble bastards, claimed or at least acknowledged by their noble parent. 

The prejudice against bastards is institutional in Westeros, supported by holy scripture and widely spread. The nobility frowns upon bastards and regards them with suspicion, and the Faith preaches about their ill-make. Here’s what the Faith of the Seven, the majority religion in Westeros, says about bastardy and even legitimized bastards as told by the would-be King Aegon V Targaryen:

"The old High Septon told my father that king's laws are one thing, and the laws of the gods another," [Egg] said stubbornly. "Trueborn children are made in a marriage bed and blessed by the Father and the Mother, but bastards are born of lust and weakness, he said. King Aegon decreed that his bastards were not bastards, but he could not change their nature. The High Septon said all bastards are born to betrayal . . . Daemon Blackfyre, Bittersteel, even Bloodraven. Lord Rivers was more cunning than the other two, he said, but in the end he would prove himself a traitor, too. The High Septon counseled my father never to put any trust in him, nor in any other bastards, great or small." 

Tell me again how it’s Northern law that bans bastards.

I think Rhaegar never abandoned Elia. I think she believed the prophecy as well. 

Rhaegar left Elia in her sickbed, shortly after she nearly died birthing Aegon, to go pursue Lyanna, and that’s after publicly humiliating her and dealing a hit to her political worth in the eyes of the biggest possible gathering of lords. I don’t think he considered that Aerys could recall her and the children to King’s Landing but that’s, at best, a terrible oversight on his part since he knew fully well that his father was paranoid and fearful of what he, Rhaegar, might do. Rhaegar drew Aerys’ eyes to the Starks at Harrenhal then went and caused a political crisis by disappearing with Lyanna. It was a given that Aerys would be quick to seek an insurance against his wayward son who disappeared to who-knows-where doing who-knows-what and conveniently left his wife and children behind on Dragonstone within the Mad King’s reach, the same Mad King who already disdained Elia and her “Dornish-smelling” daughter, and regarded Dorne with suspicion for the heck of it. Perfect plan. Two thumbs up, Rhaegar.

I continue to be bewildered as to where the belief that Elia believed in the prophecy comes from. She knew of the prophecy but we have no indication that she believed it or was willing to risk her own children for it. Why on earth would she do that? What shred of evidence do we have to suggest this? I mean, if Elia really did believe the prophecy, shouldn’t Oberyn have at least heard about it? Oberyn and Elia were as close as twins and she trusted him implicitly. He was present at Harrenhal and bristled at the public insult to his sister. He was still (rightfully) bristling at Rhaegar 15 years later. But if Elia knew, wouldn’t she have tried to convince Oberyn of the validity of the prophecy, or at the very least indicated that she was alright with what Rhaegar had done? Wouldn’t she cite the prophecy to convince her brother to let it go? Wouldn’t she have tried to use her connections to find Rhaegar a more appropriate place for Lyanna than the Tower of Joy, considering this was her own kingdom he was taking Lyanna to? Wouldn’t she, at the very least, know fully well that Aegon was the Prince who was Promised and thus needn’t ask Rhaegar for a song for him?

I hate that argument, that unfounded assumption that of course Elia believed in the prophecy just because Rhaegar did. People generally do not buy into legends about a zombie apocalypse and prophetic figures and dragons returning that easily, especially since the entire Targaryen dynasty was nearly wiped out chasing that dream. No one was going to put stock in long lost lore and prophetic dreams and obscure scrolls after that, not without compelling evidence. Why would Elia be okay with being publicly humiliated and put, along with her children, on the line for a prophecy? Why would she be cool with Rhaegar carrying off a teenager to use as an incubator for a savior? Why does that argument even exists? ffs.

 I truly believe that he married Lyanna to pacify northern lords. 

This has got to be a joke! Please tell me this is a joke!

Dude, Rhaegar vanished with Lyanna for months. He made a mess and left the Starks to deal with the fallout, left them with no choice but to go to Aerys, then returned after Aerys killed over half a dozen nobles, including the Lord Paramount of the North and his heir, only to take up arms against Northern lords. How did you arrive at “pacify the Northern lords” from that? The guy carried off a daughter of House Stark to the other side of the continent to impregnate her. He defied convention and every chivalric rule and publicly besmirched her honor and that of House Stark by pretty much framing her as a royal mistress at Harrnehal. He created a political crisis and fled without sparing two thoughts to the consequences. He declared for his father and took up arms against the rebels knowing fully well that his father committed a crime, and being more than willing to kill the people who were injured by his and his father’s actions so he could retain his crown. What part of that even hints at an attempt for conciliation?

I believe now it will be Targaryen, Stark, and Lannister. The gold lion standing in as sun, snow for ice, and all three with varying amounts of dragon blood. This is also true of Elia who had weaker Targaryen lineage. I think the prophecy didn’t fulfill before because there wasn’t strong enough dragon blood in Elia. If Joanna Lannister was impregnated with the mad king, all three would have a dragon father and lineage to the first men and children of the forest in the men.

Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen. Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen. TYRION IS NOT A SECRET TARGARYEN. GRRM himself said that third head of the dragon needn’t have Targaryen blood. Kill that theory with wildfire and throw the ashes from the Hightower. The narrative is not going to make Tywin Lannister correct in his rejection of Tyrion as his son, neither is it validating his ableism and abuse or handing him his heart’s desire posthumously. Tywin wanted nothing more than for Tyrion to not be his blood, and the narrative isn’t giving it to him. The point of the story is that Tyrion is Tywin’s son and how he has to struggle to define who he is outside of his father’s brutal legacy, how he has to reject the Lannister ideology and legacy of blood and revenge to turn his attention to the true fight in the North. Tyrion being a Targaryen undermines his story, just as Jon being legitimate undermines his.

And enough with the stuff about Elia. She didn’t have enough Targaryen blood! She couldn’t have a third child for the prophecy! The only thing I see in these arguments is an insistence to imply that Elia was somehow lacking and that it was her that prevented the fulfillment of the prophecy. What a load of crap. You do realize that you’re buying into Cersei’s and Jon Connington’s rhetoric about Elia, correct? That you’re adopting their ableist and racist view of her and treating it as a fact, building a theory on the implication that Elia simply was not enough. Don’t be Cersei, don’t be Jon Connington. Be better.

It does not matter how “strong” Elia’s Targaryen blood was or wasn’t, the prophecy wasn’t going to come true with her children anyway..... because Rhaegar got it wrong. That’s the whole point; Rhaegar understood everything about this prophecy wrong. Aegon was not the Prince who was Promised. Rhaenys wasn’t one of the heads of the dragons. The three heads of the dragon aren’t even siblings, and not all of them are Targaryens. This has nothing with the potency of Elia’s Targaryen blood (and fyi, not even the current Targaryens have that much Valyrian blood anyway). The fact of the matter is that Aegon and Rhaenys couldn’t fulfill the prophecy no more than Rhaegar or Viserys could, simply because they weren’t the figures described in it. It had nothing to do with how much Targaryen blood they had, or how strong it was. I mean, Rhaegar and Viserys had as much Targ blood as Dany, why weren’t they two of the heads of the dragon?

Oh, and just for the record, Rhaenys and Aegon did have First Men blood, through Betha Blackwood and Dyanna Dayne , Rhaegar’s great grandmother, and great great grandmother respectively. That magical genetic makeup of Targaryen\First Men blood you’re talking about? Yup, they had it too. They also had more Targaryen blood than Jon.  

[wepurge-rpg]

Kingdom of Thorns (Búsquedas)

Vorian Dayne busca a “Clarisse Dayne”: Hija de Lord Daryne. Desde hace años siente un fuerte deseo carnal por su hermano Vorian, cosa que hace notar cada vez de forma menos sutil (Link).

Administración oferta a “Mariah Nymeros Martell”: Una mujer taimada que alcanzó el título de princesa de manera improvista. Durante nueve años, ha gobernado con cautela, pensando que tarde o temprano los Targaryen deberían pagar la muerte de su sobrino. Ahora, son los Targaryen quienes buscan la guerra con ella (Link).

Elia Uller busca a “Loreon Uller”: Mellizo de Elia. Al ser su hermana la heredera, decidió consagrarse a protegerla. Por lo demás, es un hombre jovial, con gran rencor hacia los Siete Reinos (Link).

Edwyn busca a “Myles”:  Septón al servicio de una casa de dorne. Trata, sin éxito de huir de sus pecados, por lo que siempre termina arrepintiéndose (Link).

[lostchildofthenewworld]

myriah martell pushing out baelor breakspear only for him to look like jayscotty naurrr she said i never should've married into these inbred lizards, look what they did to my bloodline

Miss. Mariah Nymeros Martell Carey:

[khazelgl]

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken: Magnificent and Dangerous Women of House Nymeros Martell — 17/20.

Myriah was the heir of Prince Marence Martell. Being the eldest child, she was supposed to succeed her father as the ruling Princess of Dorne, but, as a result of the peace agreement between King Baelor I Targaryen and Prince Marence, Myriah married Daeron Targaryen, Baelor’s cousin, and years later, when he ascended to the throne, she became the Queen consort of Westeros, whereas her younger brother Maron became the next Prince of Dorne.

This marriage was happy and fruitful, and Myriah gave birth to four sons: Baelor, Aerys, Rhaegel and Maekar.

[khazelgl]

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken: Magnificent and Dangerous Women of House Nymeros Martell — 16/20.

Leyla was the eldest daughter of Prince Cadan Martell, the second son of Coryanne, ruling Princess of Dorne, and Lady Senara Santagar, heir to Spottswood. Her brother Prince Aron was ten years younger, and as a child, Leyla spent a lot of time among her cousins — Princess Myriah, Princes Maron and Malor and Prince Rhodry’s bastard son Lewyn Sand.